January 21, 2026 • 54 mins
The transition from high school to college involves so many changes – and not all of them are obvious. In this episode, Elizabeth and Vicki explore the vocabulary and role changes that catch many families off guard – especially those families with a student who has a learning disability. Along the way, we clear up some common myths—why a 504 plan doesn’t carry over, why “entitled” becomes “eligible,” and why the college president is not the person to call about a grade dispute. We also share practical ways to build self-advocacy before move‑in. Parents can shift from doing for to doing with to letting go. Learning the changes in the language of college can help smooth what can sometimes be a rocky first year.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already incollege, this podcast is for
you.
You'll find food for thought andinformation about college and
about navigating that delicatebalance of guidance,
involvement, and knowing when toget out of the way.
(01:32):
Join your hosts as they sharesupport and a celebration of the
amazing experience of having achild in college.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
My name is Vicky.
I'm Vicky Nelson, and I am aprofessor of communication and
former director of epidemicadvising.
And we have three girls thathave to do with being a good
idea.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
My name is Lynn Abraham.
I have to college one sometimeseven meeting to a college or a
second one and taking a livingbreak.
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
And we'll probably be ready.
We'd like to cover everything.
And today we are going to talkvery specifically about some
changes in vocabulary.
Now, we want to focus today onchanges in vocabulary because
Lynn Abrahams and I have doneseveral episodes on lingo, just
(02:38):
the terminology, the collegeterminology that you need to
know because it feels like adifferent language, this jargon
that we all use.
And so there are those episodes.
We'll link to those in the shownotes.
We also have a glossary on thewebsite of um, I think we're at
about 50 terms that you mightwant to know.
(03:00):
There won't be a vocabularytest, but it might be helpful.
But today we want to be a littlebit more specifically in talking
about some of those words, someof the vocabulary that changes
between high school and college.
And the idea for this episodeactually came from an article
(03:21):
that Elizabeth wrote on herwebsite.
And if you haven't discoveredit, that's LD Advisory, and you
should check it out if you havea student who needs
accommodations, a student withlearning differences.
There's so much wisdom there.
But it occurred to me that whilethe article that Elizabeth wrote
(03:42):
was really about the changes invocabulary for students with
learning differences, um the itreally applies to everybody.
Some of these terms may apply,but the idea of making sure that
you understand about changes interms.
So we're going to dig in andtalk about those things in all
(04:05):
kinds of different ways.
Because if you aren't ready fora change in terminology, you may
not be ready for some changingexpectations as you move from
high school to college.
And that's really the key.
It's not just about the words,but it's about what matters.
So, oh, that was a longintroduction.
(04:26):
I'm sorry.
So let's actually start bytalking about changes generally,
and then we'll get into some ofthose specific terms.
Um, so I'm going to letElizabeth get a word in edgewise
here.
Um, talk a little bit about whythese changes happen.
SPEAKER_04 (04:43):
So that is sort of, you know, the root of this is
really the laws.
Um so this is a verymisunderstood part of this
transition for students, youknow, as you said, and it's not
just, and I use the wordlearning disabilities very
specifically, um, not because Ium, you know, disagree with the
(05:04):
term differences, but we weretalking about legal protections.
And so they are we're talkingabout the Americans with
Disabilities Act and alsoSection 504 of the
Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
Um, so in addition to thelearning disabilities and ADHD,
which are my specialty, um meantstudents with mental health
(05:24):
disabilities, what's probablymore obvious to people is
students with physicaldisabilities, sensory
disabilities, um, you know,covers anybody who has a
disability.
Um, but it's different laws orparts of the law as your
students move from high schoolto college with a disability.
So students who have an IEP inK-12 have that under more
(05:49):
alphabet suit, IDEA, theIndividuals with Disabilities
Education Act.
And it only applies to K-12schools.
So once a student graduates fromhigh school, or in the case of
some students, they they nevercomplete a high school diploma,
but they age out of that system.
They no longer legally have uh,you know, an enforceable IEP.
(06:14):
Now, you know, for students whoage out and have more impactful
disabilities move into you knowa field that I don't know
anything about, developmentaldisabilities and and and things
like that.
But um, for students who arecoming to college, um, that IEP
has no legal bearing anymore.
It is not enforceable at thecollege level.
We are not subject to IDEA.
(06:36):
Now, if students have a 504plan, then um people think, oh,
well, gee, Elizabeth, you justsaid it's the same law, right?
But K-12 schools are coveredunder subpart D, and um
post-secondary schools arecovered under subpart E.
And it is a vastly different setof uh mandates.
(06:58):
And so it's a really importantpoint to get right because I
have done professionaldevelopment programs for
teachers who've said that theirdistrict moves everybody from a
504 plan.
I'm sorry, an IEP um in highschool to a 504 plan before they
graduate because the peoplerunning the district mistakenly
believe that 504 plans are validat college.
(07:20):
And the same thing, they expirewhen students graduate, they're
not legally enforceable, we arenot bound to them.
So that's it.
And so, you know, you said thatyou know, it's it's important to
understand what and why.
Um, as I said, section 504, umit actually was written first,
(07:41):
so it has the majority of thespecifics for colleges for what
they have to do and also whatthey don't have to do.
And so when you look at thetext, it is you know much, much
briefer than section 504, uhsubpart D, and certainly briefer
than IDEA.
And, you know, as to why that isthe case, I have my own theory
(08:06):
um about you know, the thepoliticians who wrote it,
members of Congress, and perhapsunderstanding.
I just saw a stat that said thatum I think in 2022, only 38% of
the US population was attendingcollege.
And so college is not mandatory,right?
It's an option for people, um,whereas K-12 education is not.
(08:30):
So, my only way of understandingit is perhaps you know, Congress
did not see a reason to place asmany demands on colleges as it
did on K-12 schools because noteverybody goes, and you don't
have to go to college if youdon't want to.
I've never seen an explanationfor this, but anyway, and the
ADA um, because I was justworking on a presentation,
(08:52):
they're only it the wordpost-secondary only appears in
the ADA twice.
Um, and again, my understanding,and none of this, by the way, I
should say is legal or medicaladvice.
Please see a qualified personfor that.
But you know, I've been doingthis a long time.
Um, the ADA was written in 1990,I think, to sort of strengthen
(09:15):
the protections for students uhfor individuals with
disabilities across ourpopulation.
And so again, most of theguidance is in 504.
So, with all of that out of theway, um it means some real
differences for students, butalso, and you and I, you know,
and Lynn and Sarah talk aboutthis too, the expectations for
(09:37):
college students are differentthan they are in K-12.
We really expect students to beself-sufficient, we expect them
to be self-determined andindependent in their
functioning.
And maybe to the surprise ofsome parents of students with
disabilities, it we pretty muchhold students with disabilities
to the same expectations.
(09:58):
You know, the responsibilitiesthat they have to take for
themselves are the same.
And so I think that um that'swhy I wrote that post too, was
to, you know, kind of give you asense of how with those changes
in the laws, there are changesin the way disability services
(10:18):
does does its job, um, and alsojust in in what students are
expected to take care ofthemselves.
SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
So I I I think that's really an important
distinction, that that highschool versus college
expectation um for students.
And as I listen to you uh talkabout these the differences in
the two laws, which I I knowthis is not my field.
I mean, I work with collegestudents all the time, and and
(10:48):
many of them have disabilitiesand accommodations, but that's
not my expertise.
But it wasn't until I understoodthat there were these two
different laws, um, one coveringK through 12 and one cover it
covering college, that suddenlyit made sense to me of where
(11:10):
these differences are and whywhy we shouldn't have that
expectation that things willjust carry over the the way it
does.
So then I think as I'm listeningto you explain that, I think
it's important too that parentsunderstand not sort of fall into
that trap of thinking, well,either either my student is
(11:33):
going to be be able to carryover the accommodate the
program, the accommodations thatthat um they've had in high
school, or they will havenothing.
SPEAKER_04 (11:45):
Um, you know, that's such an important point.
Yeah.
And I'm glad you brought that upbecause occasionally it doesn't
happen as often as it used to,but occasionally somebody's
gotten bad information um andbeen told that unless you have,
you know, what what most peoplethink of as a disability, you're
blind, the student's deaf, thestudent uses a wheelchair or a
(12:07):
walker, um, that it unless theyfall into that category that
there are no accommodations.
And that is not true.
And in fact, again, in incombing over um the definition
of disability in both of theselaws, it includes you know,
learning, it includes thinking,it includes concentrating.
So um all of those things areare covered as long as students
(12:30):
are found eligible um by theircollege.
And and that's one surprise tofamilies is that just because a
student has receivedaccommodations in K-12 doesn't
mean that the college has tofind them eligible.
SPEAKER_02 (12:45):
Yeah.
Okay, so that so that moves usinto um actually getting a
little bit specific in terms oftalking about um about some of
the shifts of terminology.
And you know, just to start itoff, uh, because then I want you
to talk about eligible, but um,you know, it occurred to me
(13:05):
really so so often as I talk toboth you and Lynn who who have
this expertise in in um thestudents who have disabilities,
I I'll I find you saying thingsthat I'm saying, yes, but that
applies to all students.
That applies to all students.
Yeah, sure.
So so this idea of um differentterms um and sort of pairing up
(13:32):
with different expectations, oneof the ones that I notice a lot
of students when they come tocollege um confuse is the idea
of um their high schoolprincipal and the college
president.
SPEAKER_04 (13:45):
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
It really is fascinating to me because they
see those as the same becausethe president is sort of the top
of the makes so much sensepyramid in college, and the
principal is in high school.
So students will sometimes say,you know, they're having a
problem with a teacher, orthey're they you know, they
(14:07):
think a grade was unfair orsomething, and they say, I'm
gonna go talk to the president.
Um, or my or I've heard thecollege president say, I get
these calls from parents whosay, you know, my students don't
think this grade was fair.
When actually, you know, in ourstructure, that would be the
dean or the provost or someonewho's charging our academics.
(14:30):
So that's really just adifferent term, um, different
person, top of the ladder there.
Um, but that confusion of theterms really puts a student at a
disadvantage in understandinghow the place works.
So then to get into some of thespecific terms you were talking
(14:52):
about, and you just mentionedthey might not be eligible.
So could you talk about a littlebit of the difference between
being eligible, which is acollege term, and entitled,
which I think is the K through12?
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Yeah, and so uh I do I just want to circle back to
something that you you said, youknow, that that it leaves
students at a disadvantage.
Um, so for you know, this thiswhole episode was inspired by my
blog.
Um, I have spent, you know, thelast I think it's 15 years now
writing blog posts, um, butalso, you know, now three
editions of my book, um, whichis all about you know these
(15:30):
changes at the college level andand um how to prepare students
for them most often because whatI realized and what the research
shows when we look at it, youknow, and again, I'm I'm very
focused here on students withdisabilities, is that um because
some students are not informedabout the changes, um, they do
(15:54):
not register for accommodationswhen they get to college.
And, you know, colaccommodations are certainly not
the only key to success, as theresearch also shows us, but it's
it's one of them.
But um it's been my passion overthe last 15 years, you know,
trying to find ways to educatepeople.
So I'm just gonna take a momentand just plug seven steps to
college success (16:14):
a pathway for students with disabilities, um,
for for people who really wantto dive more deeply into, you
know, we're we're gonna talkabout some stuff today, but
it'll have more context withinthe context of my book.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
So anyway, we'll put that in the show notes.
SPEAKER_04 (16:31):
Thank you.
So, and it matters because tome, you know, high school is why
we call it college prep.
And how can we properly plan andprepare if the assumption is,
and it's an under understandableassumption if you've never had
access to other information,that things are gonna go the
same way that they did in K-12,that you know, this this system
(16:53):
will be in place and that yourkids just show up and
everything's ready to go forthem.
And that's that's just not thecase.
And so eligibility versusentitlement, so you know, um,
it's not exactly a perfect umcomparison here, but um student,
my understanding, again, notlegal advice of IDEA is you
(17:16):
know, students are entitled toum specialized instruction,
specialized environments.
Um they schools have to look forand identify students who might
have a disability, assess themto see if they are, and then you
know, if they are foundeligible, uh, do a huge range of
(17:39):
things for them.
Um they are, you know, theycreate plans for students and
set goals and objectives andthey monitor and they report to
parents on on students'progress.
Now, what's important is umstudents, again, as I said, may
have been found eligible, butthat doesn't also entitle them
(18:03):
to uh accommodations of college.
So we're not necessarilyquestioning the you know a
student's disability diagnosiswhen they come to us, you know.
So people say, Well, you said mystudent didn't have a
disability, and that's notnecessarily um what it is, but
uh the legal definition of ofdisability includes the word
(18:24):
substantial limitation that thethat they have to impose.
So a student may have mild ADHD.
And when we look at the evidenceof impairment in daily life
activities, we may decide thatwe don't believe that they are
substantially limited.
And so um it's just moststudents are gonna go to college
(18:48):
and uh you know find that theyare found eligible.
But I just like to raise the thepossibility to people that their
students may not be foundeligible at college and to to um
just alert them that they arenot entitled to be found
eligible and to receiveaccommodations just because they
(19:09):
have a history of thatpreviously.
And so there's not much you cando about it as parents, except
be aware of that, for instance,um some of the students who have
been identified with a learningdisability because they have a
substantial discrepancy betweenparts of their functioning.
(19:29):
You know, uh perhaps theirreading is relatively weaker
than their verbal uh abilities,according to the testing.
If the reading abilities stillfall in the average range, there
are colleges that may not findyour student eligible because
they don't believe that they aresubstantially limited as
compared to the generalpopulation, which is how we are
(19:52):
to assess those things.
So that's just something tothink about.
Um, and there was another pointI was gonna make, and we'll see
if it comes back.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
It probably will.
Who knows?
So that to me, uh and and tellme if I'm off on this is uh you
know, I was you using the termlearning differences at the
beginning.
I I'm never sure, you know,what's what.
So it it it sounds to me asthough the student who perhaps
has the substantial and limitingum thing would would that would
(20:28):
be a learning disability.
But a student who has, as youdescribe it, mild something,
that would be more of a learningdifference.
SPEAKER_04 (20:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:37):
And so, you know, difference is a really positive
term, and I and I don't want tobe seen as somebody who isn't
trying to help build the selfesteem of these students.
Um, and I think it's a wellintentioned term, but I have
also seen, you know, reportswhere I think the psychologist,
you know, the clinician has usedit to describe what is only a
(20:59):
difference.
And not a disability.
And sometimes there is evidenceof a disability and they use it
to be kind.
They think it's a gentler term.
And so, you know, it's theAmericans with Disabilities Act.
It's not the Americans withDifferences Act.
And so I don't say this todiminish, you know, the intent
(21:21):
of it when it's when it's used,you know, to be more positive.
But the fact is sometimesstudents do not have a
disability.
Oh, I oh, it did come back tome.
Now, ADHD is one of thosesituations where it's just we're
all over the map, meaning wemeaning my colleagues at the at
(21:41):
the post-secondary level indisability services, as far as
what we require in what's calleddocumentation.
Um, so while we're throwingvocabulary around, documentation
is a fancy word for thepaperwork that your student will
submit to us when they, oncethey're in college and they have
registered and they have astudent ID number, um, when they
(22:04):
register with the disabilityservices office, um, we will
most likely ask them fordocumentation of their
disability, which, you know, forlearning disabilities, more
obviously, is um often they'llrequire whatever was the most
recent testing.
For sensory disabilities, itmight be a form uh for whoever,
(22:28):
you know, identified or treatsthem.
Medical disabilities, the samething, uh, mental health
disabilities, again, you know,we're looking for a professional
to say, you are a student with adisability.
This is how I have identified ithere, or what your functional
limitations are.
Now, ADHD can be diagnosed by avariety of professionals,
(22:48):
including a pediatrician and awell visit.
And so families may find thatthis the school that their
student wants to attend requirestesting, which they've never
needed before, like the kindthat is given to students for
learning disabilities.
Um, and the college is allowedto do that.
And students who do not submitit are we don't have to find
(23:10):
them eligible foraccommodations.
Um, and even the case withautism, depending upon what
kinds of accommodations they arerequesting, if they're academic,
the college may look for umobjective documentation, meaning
not just sort of qualitativereports about their, you know,
the effects of their autism ontheir social interactions and
(23:33):
things, but they may be lookingfor evidence that they are
actually substantially limitedwhen it comes to academic
skills.
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
So complicated.
SPEAKER_04 (23:42):
And so parents could oh, you didn't think we were
having a simple conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (23:47):
Well, I mean, that's why we're having the
conversation because it is socomplicated, and anything we can
do to try to help uh, you know,unpack it a little bit for
parents is important.
So then at that point, parentscould and students could request
testing, they would have to dothat on their own and then bring
the test results to the college.
SPEAKER_04 (24:05):
I'm so glad you reminded me that I forgot to say
that.
So once students graduate, andeven if they are in K-12, the
school does not have to testthem simply because the K-12,
the high school doesn't have totest them simply because they
found out the college that theyattend will require it.
Um, so that's again a legalquagmire I don't really want to
(24:27):
get into, but also colleges arenot required to test students
who present to them.
Um, so that is something to keepin mind.
And on my website and on myYouTube channel, I have you know
a written post on the site andon my YouTube channel a video of
how to find documentationrequirements on disability
(24:47):
services sites.
Um it's not usually that hard,but I realize it can some of
these sites can be overwhelming.
And so I'll try to help you, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
So we'll also we'll link to that one as well.
All right.
I want I want to move on becausethere are a couple more, um, a
couple more that I think itreally is important to talk
about.
Um so what about the differencebetween what in high school
might be called their astudent's plan?
You mentioned a plan earlierversus um in college a letter of
(25:19):
accommodation.
SPEAKER_04 (25:21):
Oh, yeah, this is really important.
And actually, if you don't mind,I want to back us up to
coordinator versus case managerbecause I think, I mean, these
these conversations sort ofdovetail.
So um in high school, yourstudent has a case manager.
And certainly when it comes toIEPs under IDEA, that case
(25:42):
manager has a lot ofresponsibilities, right?
So they're they are writing umannual plans where they set
goals and objectives, theyidentify who's gonna provide
these services, they have toreport on progress to the
parents.
Um, they liaise or stay incontact with um teachers and
(26:03):
when necessary, administrators.
So college coordinators don'thave any such responsibilities.
Um, it is a very, very differentkind of job.
And be aware, you know, youmentioned um, you know, that a
president of the university isvery different than a principal
of a high school.
(26:24):
Um now what's interesting is adisability services coordinator
might also be the only personand therefore the also the
director of their own one-personoffice.
Um, and so that's not the reasonwhy they don't have the same
responsibilities, but to kind ofput this in context, it might be
(26:46):
the disability services directoris the sole employee of that
office and has a caseload ofliterally hundreds of students.
Now I was just looking at somedata from a 2022 survey of my
colleagues, and it said theaverage caseload was 135
students.
SPEAKER_03 (27:05):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (27:05):
But the range is quite wide.
So um at the college level, theperson that your student
interacts with around theiraccommodations may be called a
coordinator.
Um and so it might be an accesscoordinator, disability services
coordinator.
(27:26):
Now, there are places that callthose folks case managers, but I
do think that they just havemuch different responsibilities.
So here's what case managersgenerally, you know, with
exceptions, always possible,don't do.
They do not set goals andobjectives for your students.
Um, and this is where our othervocabulary comes in.
(27:48):
So high schools, as I said, haveto write a plan with all of
those details in them.
What we provide instead is anotification or letter of
accommodations.
And so, to give you a sense ofhow different this is, um your
student actually has to initiatethis whole process for
contacting our office,registering.
(28:10):
They can find that processonline, it will be obvious.
Um, I hope I should say.
They're gonna fill out a formbecause welcome to college.
You what and you know, yourfuture adult world, you must
fill out a form for absolutelyeverything, including for our
office, right?
And that form is gonna ask yourstudent lots of questions, um,
(28:32):
including what accommodationsare you requesting?
Why do you think you need them?
Why do you um why have you usedthem in the past?
How are they helpful?
Um, again, on my form, if you ifyou're already taking notes,
Vicky, I'll add to that.
I there's a free resource umthat I offer that kind of helps
students prepare for that umquestionnaire.
(28:52):
And they can, you it's a goodway to assess how much
self-knowledge your student has.
That's it's a Google formbecause it's disability
accessible that way.
And so it's but there's a linkfrom my site.
Um and so uh if your student andsee all these words come around,
right?
If your student is foundeligible, um, my colleagues do
(29:15):
things a variety of differentways.
A number of them have, you know,commercial products, these
programs where your student willget a notification from their
coordinator saying, hey, yes,we've approved you, we've
approved you for these things.
Remember, they're also notentitled to the same
accommodations just because wefound them eligible.
(29:36):
Um, they have to, you know,colleges get to determine which
accommodations we think are aresupported by their
documentation.
Um, and then the way some of mycolleagues set this up, they log
in and it says, um, here are allyour accommodations, and
students can select.
(29:57):
I want Professor Nelson to knowabout all of my accommodations,
and she clicks those thoseboxes, or I only want Professor
Nelson to know about theseaccommodations, and then they
send the notification.
Or I don't even want ProfessorNelson to know I have
accommodations and they don'thave to send them.
Um, sometimes our office sendsstudents a PDF of a letter, and
(30:22):
the student is responsible forforwarding it to their
professor.
And so um, as you can see, noneof this involves any plans.
Um, and the student plays a veryimportant role in communicating
with their professors that theyhave been approved.
And so um we're not monitoringyour students to see if they go
(30:47):
to class, which becomes an issuein college when they are not
literally locked in a buildingand if caught in a hallway, you
know, will get sent back toclass.
Um, we are not checking in withtheir professors to see how
they're doing.
We are not looking at theirgrades.
We often, some offices don'thave access to their grades.
It's just not part of what youknow the school thinks we we
(31:09):
need for their privacy.
Um we are not providing progressreports, certainly to parents,
but not even to students.
Students are back to theexpectations, expected to know
how they're doing.
Now, um, I know that it's nottrue of you, Professor Nelson,
but sometimes professors don'tget around to their grading very
(31:31):
quickly after collecting papersor exams.
Never me.
Never me.
No, I wouldn't think so.
Um, but we aren't in a positionto, for instance, make sure a
professor grades your paper soyou can see how you're doing.
You know, students have toself-advocate for all of these
things.
They want to know how they'redoing, they can check their
(31:53):
grades in the portal.
Um, if the grades aren't in theportal, they can show up at
office hours and say, hey, I waswondering when you might grade
my paper.
Yeah.
But it's we are not planning.
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
And just putting the the responsibility on the
students and students needing tobe proactive uh for so many
things.
I mean, it's not just studentswith learning disabilities, it's
all students.
And it's one of the things thatI see as a professor in the
(32:28):
classroom all the time, that Isee students struggling to make
that transition, struggling tounderstand that difference of
you're not going to necessarily,you know, so I'll I do grade my
papers and I I will post gradeson the on the portal and
(32:51):
students can see them.
But I think there's for many ofthem still an expectation that
if I'm in trouble, right, if mygrades are coming out to the
average of it being kind of low,the professor will reach out to
me.
So as long as I haven't heardanything from the professor
(33:14):
telling me I better shape up, Imust be doing okay.
So and and and that idea ofwell, I you know, I wasn't told
to come and see the professor inoffice hours, so I don't go to
office hours.
Those are just a couple ofexamples.
But I think that that shift tobe to self-advocacy, to being
(33:35):
proactive, um, is a is astruggle for a lot of students,
no matter where they are on anyum learning disability, learning
difference, no issues at all.
Uh it's a it's a tough one.
SPEAKER_04 (33:52):
Yeah, and that's so interesting.
I I I mean, when I was uhwriting the book, there are
there are some schools thathave, I don't know what they
call them, like alerts that goout perhaps after midterms.
Um, but what's so interestingabout them is at least as I
understood them, and andcertainly like not at every
college, is are the professorseven required to use it?
(34:17):
So the idea that professors arelooking after students in that
way, some certainly are, butthat's just their choice.
But we are not looking afterthem either.
If your student has um a problemwith the professor, if it's
related to your accommodations,yes, that's where a case manager
(34:37):
would, that's their role to stepin.
But again, um the student has toalert us that there's a problem.
Um, they do not, uh, they shouldnot rely on professors to say to
to disability services, you guysapproved an accommodation, and
here's why it can't work in myclass.
(34:58):
Um, it's gonna be the student'sresponsibility to come back to
us and to do so in a timelymanner so that we can take care
of it.
Um, you know, sometimes peopleshow a lot of flexibility with
deadlines and um, you know, andespecially administrative ones
for students with disabilities,but they may not find that um at
(35:19):
the college level.
And so um I write for a journalthat looks at Office for Civil
Rights decisions um as part ofwhat they do when students
complain about their college tothe to OCR.
And I've been astounded atsometimes a student, you know,
doesn't say anything about nothaving gotten a note taker or
(35:42):
the professor not having giventhem the approved extended time
until after the semester isover.
Um, and OCR is, you know, OCRwill ask the college to address
it moving forward, but they'renot gonna require the college to
let the student have a do-overor make the professor adjust the
(36:03):
grade.
Um, this is this is this is thebig leagues.
And I know students are only 18.
Um, and we know their prefrontalcortex is not gonna be done for
another 10 years or so.
But I think sometimes becausewe've been flexible with
students and adults haveprovided a lot of support, it
(36:23):
can be hard to see the areaswhere they're gonna need to
really step up.
And that's why this conversationis so important because knowing
these things, parents at homecan start to work on putting
more responsibility on theirstudents and stepping back
slowly so that you know they arethey're accustomed to handling
things.
(36:43):
They have systems in place formeeting deadlines.
Um, they learn how tocommunicate with authority
figures in an appropriate andand for them effective way.
SPEAKER_02 (36:56):
So that's a perfect transition into really what was
going to be my my next question,probably my last, you know, sort
of area that I think we want totouch on.
And that is understanding now,perhaps, that um that that there
are significant differencesbetween high school and college
(37:19):
in terms of what students areentitled to or eligible to, and
and the oversight, perhaps, thatthat the disabilities office um
is or is not uh expected to giveto students, uh, and that so
much more of this responsibilityfalls now on students'
shoulders.
(37:40):
Are there things that, and youjust touched on some, but are
there things that parents can bedoing to help students get
ready?
Uh, because that not only willthat help the student be ready,
but it as a parent, if I havesome confidence that my student
is ready, I'm going to worryless.
(38:00):
So, what what can parents do tohelp students get ready for this
shift?
SPEAKER_04 (38:06):
I think, you know, sort of just having a mindset of
building uh their independenceas much as possible.
And I can take so many differentforms.
And um, I think we're gonnahopefully get around to
interviewing my friend KellyChallen pretty soon, who is a
transition specialist forstudents with disabilities, but
has a lot of really helpfuladvice that, you know, much more
(38:29):
specific than I can provide,probably, about how to work on
those skills.
So, you know, it seems reallyobvious to people in FACIL, but
you know, are they gettingthemselves up for school in the
morning?
Are you constantly doing thatfor you?
Are you rescuing them by showingup at the high school with the
stuff that they forgot?
(38:50):
Are you reminding them aboutupcoming things?
Are you checking in with themabout projects that they've told
you are due?
Um, are they uh you know, makingtheir own doctor's appointments
and figuring out their um theirschedules by themselves?
These are all things um that aregonna be necessary when they get
(39:14):
to college.
Um, you know, you said, um,well, the professor didn't tell
me I had to come in.
Some of your students are notgoing to class.
So the professor is not evenseeing them.
Yes.
Um, and it's not, it's notthere.
And this is, you know, when wetalk about the expectations,
right?
We do expect them to go toclass.
And look, I'm I'm not gonna beum uh a Pollyanna about it.
(39:38):
Students over many, many yearshave said to me, professors
don't take attendance, theydon't care if you show up.
If you're pretty confident aboutthat, uh oh, okay.
I mean, I don't know why you'rethere.
It's you're spending the moneyor your parents' money to be
there.
But um, you know, it isn'tprofessor's job to email your
student and say, hey, I noticedyou haven't been in class.
(39:59):
Um, so when there is a challengewith your student and a and a
teacher, are you the one who'scalling?
Are you coaching your studentinto how to send an email and an
appropriate amount of time towait?
Or if they would rather talk inperson, you know, talking to
them about social norms, aboutyou don't just walk up to
(40:21):
somebody at the start of classwhen they are trying to get
themselves organized.
You ask about, you know, when isa convenient time for for us to
talk about this?
Um, and I laughed um when youtalked about going to the
president.
There's a scene in whatever theFacebook movie is called, the
social network, where um the thetwins you get into the meeting
(40:43):
with the Harvard president abouttheir problem with with Mark
Zuckerberg.
And he's you know, essentially,what are you doing here?
How did you even get anappointment?
And it's a scene that's reallystuck with me, like
understanding that there are umsystems in place and you often.
Have to start in a certain placeand you know move your way
through the um the processwithout jumping to the end.
SPEAKER_02 (41:07):
And you know, every everything you've just mentioned
in terms of preparing um appliesto all students.
Here's you know, this is whatI'm always saying.
Right.
Um, all of those things aboutemails and social understandings
and you know, going to class andpaying attention, all of that
stuff, um, making your owndoctor's appointments and all
(41:28):
are things that we have foryears been recommending that you
know, the more that you can dowith your student in high
school, they will be ready andyou will have the confidence in
knowing they're ready.
And actually, um, I will link inthe show notes to um our ebook
on you know something 60 tipsfor using the high school using
(41:50):
high school to prepare forcollege.
So things that parents can do tohelp students, you know, get
ready.
So um so they apply toeverybody.
Um, a couple of quick um sort ofmore specific questions.
What about IEP meetings duringhigh school and all?
Should students be part of that?
SPEAKER_04 (42:11):
Yeah, I mean, I I have to say I'm a little bit of
a um an outlier in thisconversation because what's
interesting is um there isn'tthe right parallel um at the
college level for thosemeetings.
And what I mean is, and this ispart of this differences
conversation we're talkingabout, when students register
(42:33):
with us, it's and they may haveto have a one-on-one meeting as
a part of that intake process.
SPEAKER_02 (42:40):
Yeah, so I was going, that was gonna be another
question.
So you can combine the answers.
SPEAKER_04 (42:44):
I've got to add to our list, Vicky.
I have an interview of uh avideo on my YouTube channel
where a colleague and friend umwho's a disability services
director talked about thoseintake meetings and what kinds
of questions he asks, what hethinks students should be asking
him.
It's not like a job interviewwhere if your student says the
wrong thing, they get nothing.
(43:06):
It's just an opportunity to, youknow, learn more about that
student.
Um let me see if I can figureout where we're going with that.
Oh, so the the uh IEP meetings.
So what I find ironic is I IDEAis all about individualization.
And then we sort of make it likethe only way to prepare students
for this is to make them runtheir own IEP meetings.
(43:28):
Now, you know, most teenagerswould rather not sit in a room
with a bunch of adults, and notto say that they shouldn't ever
be taken out of their comfortzone, because college is all
about being out of a comfortzone, right?
Um, but I think that what theyneed is an understanding of how
(43:48):
they came to be identified as astudent with a disability, what
that what their strengths are,because that's really, really
important.
Um, what is an accommodation forthem?
Because some of the researchindicates in some places that
they don't even realize thatwhat's happening for them is an
accommodation, um, so that theycan clearly identify those.
(44:09):
Um, and so the IEP meeting canbe one of several ways to start
preparing them for this stuff.
I don't think they need to runtheir own meeting, as some
people have suggested.
Being present might not be a badidea, but also, you know, to
understand what people are aresaying.
But um, there is no parallel atthe college level.
(44:31):
And for parents, you know, it'simportant for them to know like
we're not gonna have a bunch ofmeetings over your students'
four years where we call all theprofessors in and say, and how
is Elizabeth doing?
Back to if they want to know,they can check the portal, and
if it's not there, they can goto office hours.
So um it's it's a whole newworld.
I mean, one thing you keepsaying, and I and I have an
(44:54):
addition to that, is that um wewant parents to feel confident
that their students areindependent and and are ready.
I really want students to feelthat way.
And what always worries me whenI hear about a student getting a
lot of supports, um, is thatsorry, that is a very crabby cat
(45:17):
who decided to be uh in themiddle of our conversation.
Um is that uh students recognizehow much support they're getting
for adults.
And I I worry that it undercutstheir confidence.
Um when an adult is there atevery moment to direct them and
(45:37):
say, you know, when when tutorssit down and say, okay, here's
what we're gonna do, instead ofwhat do you have to do?
Show me your planner, what uhplans do you have to meet this
deadline?
Um, then they're not buildingthose skills when parents, you
know, are not placingresponsibilities.
I mean, everything should beindividualized, of course, but
(46:01):
um there are parents who don'trequire students to take on any
responsibilities at home.
You know, darling, you justfocus on your academics and we,
you know, we'll take care ofthat.
That's not building theircapacity.
Many students are capable ofdoing more than they are.
Um, if we require it, we givethem some direction.
(46:22):
I mean, it seems dumb, butknowing how to do your laundry,
um, and knowing that if youleave it in the machine, it will
be moldy and damp and you'llhave to wash it all over again.
So um I think looking at theexpectations that they're
setting for their own students,and you know, parents love their
(46:43):
students, and that's why they doall of this supporting of them.
Um, but looking to see wherethere are things that their
students could learn to do,teaching them how, scaffolding
this experience, and thenletting go.
It's not always going to beperfect.
I also forget towels in thewashing machine and have to
wash.
SPEAKER_02 (47:03):
I was thinking, been there, done that.
SPEAKER_04 (47:06):
So I think too, you know, when we are um looking at
our students and we want them todo well and and and we're we're
imagining this level ofperfection that we should get
them to.
And that is gets in the waysometimes of parents letting go.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
And sometimes failure, yeah, you know, maybe
failure with a small F ratherthan a capital F builds that
muscle and builds the resiliencemuscle.
So again, everything you'retalking about applies to every
single student.
SPEAKER_04 (47:44):
You know, I we were one thing I want to mention too,
we were talking about deadlinesand and flexibility that people
show for students.
Um, and and I was thinking of aspecific disability-related
example, but it's also true forother students.
At some colleges, housing stocksare limited.
And so students may ask for anaccommodation in housing, which,
(48:07):
from you know, this is not partof my job, but from what I see
in the conversations in mycommunity, often students would
like to have a room forthemselves, a single room based
on their disability.
Um, if the college runs out ofrooms that they can make
available to students as asingle um because a student
(48:29):
missed the housing deadline,they are not going to
necessarily kick a student out.
Again, this is where we wouldthink very hard about their
eligibility for thataccommodation, how uh
substantial their limitation isbecause there are maybe other
students who also want the samething, and whether that is
something that we have torequire, you know, do.
(48:50):
But we're not going to kickstudents out of their rooms
because a student with adisability waited too long.
Um, if there's limited housing,um, it's not uh an entitlement
to get on campus housing as astudent with a disability.
It may be considered dependingon the severity of the
disability.
But our our our you knowstudents in the general
(49:12):
population who miss the housingdeadline also don't get rooms.
SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Yeah.
So I I'm trying to think, youknow, you know, we've covered so
much ground.
I'm trying to think, okay, howdo we how do we kind of sum this
up at the end?
I mean, I think I'm hearing um,you know, everything that
parents can do to preparestudents um so that both student
(49:40):
and parent have some confidencethat the student's going to be
able to manage.
And sometimes less is more,doing less, um, re redirecting,
directing from the backgroundrather than write up, you know,
right, right up doing for, oryou know, maybe you do with
this, instead of doing for thestudent, you move toward doing
(50:01):
with the student, and then yougradually move back and and and
let them do it.
Um, the importance of uhself-advocacy, and again for all
students, self-advocacy andbeing proactive and and not
waiting for someone to come toyou because that's not not
always going to happen.
(50:22):
Um also uh and I think youtalked about this at the at the
very beginning, that eachinstitution may be slightly
different in what they do andhow they handle things and um
what they call things and andand the names, you know, but but
that accuracy and that um thatawareness and that sensitivity
(50:46):
toward terminology, which iswhere we started.
This was a vocabulary uhepisode.
Um, don't just don't justassume, ask questions, um, try
to clarify, make sure it's notthat you're assuming this term
means this when that term meansthat, um, and just uh, you know,
(51:08):
encourage your student to asklots of questions and to know
that things in college for allstudents, uh, and maybe
especially for students withdisabilities are going to be
different.
Yeah, everybody.
And that those differences areconnected to different
expectations.
SPEAKER_04 (51:27):
And I think too, you know, setting your own
expectations uh at the rightlevel for how they do in that
first year, right?
It's it's it is an adjustmentfor everybody.
And your students are taking onso many different demands.
And so, you know, kind of beingclear headed about what that
first year might look like, um,and not being disappointed if
(51:51):
things are just, you know, notas strong as you're used to.
It is the expression goes, atleast academically, that college
is not grade 13.
SPEAKER_02 (52:02):
And the students uh that I teach in their first
year, and then I see them intheir junior and their senior
year, and it is amazing for mostof them, uh, especially if they
are consciously working atlearning the skills, adapting
(52:23):
and and moving from there.
They will get there.
They they are very different infour years.
Uh, I think sometimes it ishelpful for parents who have
seniors and they're worriedabout high school, um, I mean,
worried about college, um, tothink back to what their student
(52:44):
was like in their freshman yearof high school and where they
are in their senior year of highschool.
Wow.
And to remember you've gotanother set of four years like
that for your student to growand change.
And so maybe that's a good agood place to end the episode is
you know, to to you know, workat it, understand the
differences, differentexpectations, but to recognize
(53:08):
that college is a four-yearjourney and your student.
SPEAKER_04 (53:11):
And and not always, not always just four years.
SPEAKER_02 (53:15):
So we hope it's helpful.
Thank you to everybody who hasstuck with us to the end.
Uh, if you have a student withlearning disabilities, I know
this episode was hugely helpfulto you.
Uh, if you don't, if you have astudent who does not have
learning diff differences orlearning disabilities, um, you
know, hopefully you can pulllots of this information that is
(53:39):
helpful to every single student,no matter what.
Um, we're going to put lots oflinks in the show notes, so be
sure you go and visit the shownotes.
And thanks so much for beingwith us, and we'll see you next
time.
SPEAKER_04 (53:54):
Thanks, Vicky.
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already incollege, this podcast is for
you.
You'll find food for thought andinformation about college and
about navigating that delicatebalance of guidance,
involvement, and knowing when toget out of the way.
(01:32):
Join your hosts as they sharesupport and a celebration of the
amazing experience of having achild in college.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
My name is Vicky.
I'm Vicky Nelson, and I am aprofessor of communication and
former director of epidemicadvising.
And we have three girls thathave to do with being a good
idea.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
My name is Lynn Abraham.
I have to college one sometimeseven meeting to a college or a
second one and taking a livingbreak.
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
And we'll probably be ready.
We'd like to cover everything.
And today we are going to talkvery specifically about some
changes in vocabulary.
Now, we want to focus today onchanges in vocabulary because
Lynn Abrahams and I have doneseveral episodes on lingo, just
(02:38):
the terminology, the collegeterminology that you need to
know because it feels like adifferent language, this jargon
that we all use.
And so there are those episodes.
We'll link to those in the shownotes.
We also have a glossary on thewebsite of um, I think we're at
about 50 terms that you mightwant to know.
(03:00):
There won't be a vocabularytest, but it might be helpful.
But today we want to be a littlebit more specifically in talking
about some of those words, someof the vocabulary that changes
between high school and college.
And the idea for this episodeactually came from an article
(03:21):
that Elizabeth wrote on herwebsite.
And if you haven't discoveredit, that's LD Advisory, and you
should check it out if you havea student who needs
accommodations, a student withlearning differences.
There's so much wisdom there.
But it occurred to me that whilethe article that Elizabeth wrote
(03:42):
was really about the changes invocabulary for students with
learning differences, um the itreally applies to everybody.
Some of these terms may apply,but the idea of making sure that
you understand about changes interms.
So we're going to dig in andtalk about those things in all
(04:05):
kinds of different ways.
Because if you aren't ready fora change in terminology, you may
not be ready for some changingexpectations as you move from
high school to college.
And that's really the key.
It's not just about the words,but it's about what matters.
So, oh, that was a longintroduction.
(04:26):
I'm sorry.
So let's actually start bytalking about changes generally,
and then we'll get into some ofthose specific terms.
Um, so I'm going to letElizabeth get a word in edgewise
here.
Um, talk a little bit about whythese changes happen.
SPEAKER_04 (04:43):
So that is sort of, you know, the root of this is
really the laws.
Um so this is a verymisunderstood part of this
transition for students, youknow, as you said, and it's not
just, and I use the wordlearning disabilities very
specifically, um, not because Ium, you know, disagree with the
(05:04):
term differences, but we weretalking about legal protections.
And so they are we're talkingabout the Americans with
Disabilities Act and alsoSection 504 of the
Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
Um, so in addition to thelearning disabilities and ADHD,
which are my specialty, um meantstudents with mental health
(05:24):
disabilities, what's probablymore obvious to people is
students with physicaldisabilities, sensory
disabilities, um, you know,covers anybody who has a
disability.
Um, but it's different laws orparts of the law as your
students move from high schoolto college with a disability.
So students who have an IEP inK-12 have that under more
(05:49):
alphabet suit, IDEA, theIndividuals with Disabilities
Education Act.
And it only applies to K-12schools.
So once a student graduates fromhigh school, or in the case of
some students, they they nevercomplete a high school diploma,
but they age out of that system.
They no longer legally have uh,you know, an enforceable IEP.
(06:14):
Now, you know, for students whoage out and have more impactful
disabilities move into you knowa field that I don't know
anything about, developmentaldisabilities and and and things
like that.
But um, for students who arecoming to college, um, that IEP
has no legal bearing anymore.
It is not enforceable at thecollege level.
We are not subject to IDEA.
(06:36):
Now, if students have a 504plan, then um people think, oh,
well, gee, Elizabeth, you justsaid it's the same law, right?
But K-12 schools are coveredunder subpart D, and um
post-secondary schools arecovered under subpart E.
And it is a vastly different setof uh mandates.
(06:58):
And so it's a really importantpoint to get right because I
have done professionaldevelopment programs for
teachers who've said that theirdistrict moves everybody from a
504 plan.
I'm sorry, an IEP um in highschool to a 504 plan before they
graduate because the peoplerunning the district mistakenly
believe that 504 plans are validat college.
(07:20):
And the same thing, they expirewhen students graduate, they're
not legally enforceable, we arenot bound to them.
So that's it.
And so, you know, you said thatyou know, it's it's important to
understand what and why.
Um, as I said, section 504, umit actually was written first,
(07:41):
so it has the majority of thespecifics for colleges for what
they have to do and also whatthey don't have to do.
And so when you look at thetext, it is you know much, much
briefer than section 504, uhsubpart D, and certainly briefer
than IDEA.
And, you know, as to why that isthe case, I have my own theory
(08:06):
um about you know, the thepoliticians who wrote it,
members of Congress, and perhapsunderstanding.
I just saw a stat that said thatum I think in 2022, only 38% of
the US population was attendingcollege.
And so college is not mandatory,right?
It's an option for people, um,whereas K-12 education is not.
(08:30):
So, my only way of understandingit is perhaps you know, Congress
did not see a reason to place asmany demands on colleges as it
did on K-12 schools because noteverybody goes, and you don't
have to go to college if youdon't want to.
I've never seen an explanationfor this, but anyway, and the
ADA um, because I was justworking on a presentation,
(08:52):
they're only it the wordpost-secondary only appears in
the ADA twice.
Um, and again, my understanding,and none of this, by the way, I
should say is legal or medicaladvice.
Please see a qualified personfor that.
But you know, I've been doingthis a long time.
Um, the ADA was written in 1990,I think, to sort of strengthen
(09:15):
the protections for students uhfor individuals with
disabilities across ourpopulation.
And so again, most of theguidance is in 504.
So, with all of that out of theway, um it means some real
differences for students, butalso, and you and I, you know,
and Lynn and Sarah talk aboutthis too, the expectations for
(09:37):
college students are differentthan they are in K-12.
We really expect students to beself-sufficient, we expect them
to be self-determined andindependent in their
functioning.
And maybe to the surprise ofsome parents of students with
disabilities, it we pretty muchhold students with disabilities
to the same expectations.
(09:58):
You know, the responsibilitiesthat they have to take for
themselves are the same.
And so I think that um that'swhy I wrote that post too, was
to, you know, kind of give you asense of how with those changes
in the laws, there are changesin the way disability services
(10:18):
does does its job, um, and alsojust in in what students are
expected to take care ofthemselves.
SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
So I I I think that's really an important
distinction, that that highschool versus college
expectation um for students.
And as I listen to you uh talkabout these the differences in
the two laws, which I I knowthis is not my field.
I mean, I work with collegestudents all the time, and and
(10:48):
many of them have disabilitiesand accommodations, but that's
not my expertise.
But it wasn't until I understoodthat there were these two
different laws, um, one coveringK through 12 and one cover it
covering college, that suddenlyit made sense to me of where
(11:10):
these differences are and whywhy we shouldn't have that
expectation that things willjust carry over the the way it
does.
So then I think as I'm listeningto you explain that, I think
it's important too that parentsunderstand not sort of fall into
that trap of thinking, well,either either my student is
(11:33):
going to be be able to carryover the accommodate the
program, the accommodations thatthat um they've had in high
school, or they will havenothing.
SPEAKER_04 (11:45):
Um, you know, that's such an important point.
Yeah.
And I'm glad you brought that upbecause occasionally it doesn't
happen as often as it used to,but occasionally somebody's
gotten bad information um andbeen told that unless you have,
you know, what what most peoplethink of as a disability, you're
blind, the student's deaf, thestudent uses a wheelchair or a
(12:07):
walker, um, that it unless theyfall into that category that
there are no accommodations.
And that is not true.
And in fact, again, in incombing over um the definition
of disability in both of theselaws, it includes you know,
learning, it includes thinking,it includes concentrating.
So um all of those things areare covered as long as students
(12:30):
are found eligible um by theircollege.
And and that's one surprise tofamilies is that just because a
student has receivedaccommodations in K-12 doesn't
mean that the college has tofind them eligible.
SPEAKER_02 (12:45):
Yeah.
Okay, so that so that moves usinto um actually getting a
little bit specific in terms oftalking about um about some of
the shifts of terminology.
And you know, just to start itoff, uh, because then I want you
to talk about eligible, but um,you know, it occurred to me
(13:05):
really so so often as I talk toboth you and Lynn who who have
this expertise in in um thestudents who have disabilities,
I I'll I find you saying thingsthat I'm saying, yes, but that
applies to all students.
That applies to all students.
Yeah, sure.
So so this idea of um differentterms um and sort of pairing up
(13:32):
with different expectations, oneof the ones that I notice a lot
of students when they come tocollege um confuse is the idea
of um their high schoolprincipal and the college
president.
SPEAKER_04 (13:45):
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
It really is fascinating to me because they
see those as the same becausethe president is sort of the top
of the makes so much sensepyramid in college, and the
principal is in high school.
So students will sometimes say,you know, they're having a
problem with a teacher, orthey're they you know, they
(14:07):
think a grade was unfair orsomething, and they say, I'm
gonna go talk to the president.
Um, or my or I've heard thecollege president say, I get
these calls from parents whosay, you know, my students don't
think this grade was fair.
When actually, you know, in ourstructure, that would be the
dean or the provost or someonewho's charging our academics.
(14:30):
So that's really just adifferent term, um, different
person, top of the ladder there.
Um, but that confusion of theterms really puts a student at a
disadvantage in understandinghow the place works.
So then to get into some of thespecific terms you were talking
(14:52):
about, and you just mentionedthey might not be eligible.
So could you talk about a littlebit of the difference between
being eligible, which is acollege term, and entitled,
which I think is the K through12?
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Yeah, and so uh I do I just want to circle back to
something that you you said, youknow, that that it leaves
students at a disadvantage.
Um, so for you know, this thiswhole episode was inspired by my
blog.
Um, I have spent, you know, thelast I think it's 15 years now
writing blog posts, um, butalso, you know, now three
editions of my book, um, whichis all about you know these
(15:30):
changes at the college level andand um how to prepare students
for them most often because whatI realized and what the research
shows when we look at it, youknow, and again, I'm I'm very
focused here on students withdisabilities, is that um because
some students are not informedabout the changes, um, they do
(15:54):
not register for accommodationswhen they get to college.
And, you know, colaccommodations are certainly not
the only key to success, as theresearch also shows us, but it's
it's one of them.
But um it's been my passion overthe last 15 years, you know,
trying to find ways to educatepeople.
So I'm just gonna take a momentand just plug seven steps to
college success (16:14):
a pathway for students with disabilities, um,
for for people who really wantto dive more deeply into, you
know, we're we're gonna talkabout some stuff today, but
it'll have more context withinthe context of my book.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
So anyway, we'll put that in the show notes.
SPEAKER_04 (16:31):
Thank you.
So, and it matters because tome, you know, high school is why
we call it college prep.
And how can we properly plan andprepare if the assumption is,
and it's an under understandableassumption if you've never had
access to other information,that things are gonna go the
same way that they did in K-12,that you know, this this system
(16:53):
will be in place and that yourkids just show up and
everything's ready to go forthem.
And that's that's just not thecase.
And so eligibility versusentitlement, so you know, um,
it's not exactly a perfect umcomparison here, but um student,
my understanding, again, notlegal advice of IDEA is you
(17:16):
know, students are entitled toum specialized instruction,
specialized environments.
Um they schools have to look forand identify students who might
have a disability, assess themto see if they are, and then you
know, if they are foundeligible, uh, do a huge range of
(17:39):
things for them.
Um they are, you know, theycreate plans for students and
set goals and objectives andthey monitor and they report to
parents on on students'progress.
Now, what's important is umstudents, again, as I said, may
have been found eligible, butthat doesn't also entitle them
(18:03):
to uh accommodations of college.
So we're not necessarilyquestioning the you know a
student's disability diagnosiswhen they come to us, you know.
So people say, Well, you said mystudent didn't have a
disability, and that's notnecessarily um what it is, but
uh the legal definition of ofdisability includes the word
(18:24):
substantial limitation that thethat they have to impose.
So a student may have mild ADHD.
And when we look at the evidenceof impairment in daily life
activities, we may decide thatwe don't believe that they are
substantially limited.
And so um it's just moststudents are gonna go to college
(18:48):
and uh you know find that theyare found eligible.
But I just like to raise the thepossibility to people that their
students may not be foundeligible at college and to to um
just alert them that they arenot entitled to be found
eligible and to receiveaccommodations just because they
(19:09):
have a history of thatpreviously.
And so there's not much you cando about it as parents, except
be aware of that, for instance,um some of the students who have
been identified with a learningdisability because they have a
substantial discrepancy betweenparts of their functioning.
(19:29):
You know, uh perhaps theirreading is relatively weaker
than their verbal uh abilities,according to the testing.
If the reading abilities stillfall in the average range, there
are colleges that may not findyour student eligible because
they don't believe that they aresubstantially limited as
compared to the generalpopulation, which is how we are
(19:52):
to assess those things.
So that's just something tothink about.
Um, and there was another pointI was gonna make, and we'll see
if it comes back.
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
It probably will.
Who knows?
So that to me, uh and and tellme if I'm off on this is uh you
know, I was you using the termlearning differences at the
beginning.
I I'm never sure, you know,what's what.
So it it it sounds to me asthough the student who perhaps
has the substantial and limitingum thing would would that would
(20:28):
be a learning disability.
But a student who has, as youdescribe it, mild something,
that would be more of a learningdifference.
SPEAKER_04 (20:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:37):
And so, you know, difference is a really positive
term, and I and I don't want tobe seen as somebody who isn't
trying to help build the selfesteem of these students.
Um, and I think it's a wellintentioned term, but I have
also seen, you know, reportswhere I think the psychologist,
you know, the clinician has usedit to describe what is only a
(20:59):
difference.
And not a disability.
And sometimes there is evidenceof a disability and they use it
to be kind.
They think it's a gentler term.
And so, you know, it's theAmericans with Disabilities Act.
It's not the Americans withDifferences Act.
And so I don't say this todiminish, you know, the intent
(21:21):
of it when it's when it's used,you know, to be more positive.
But the fact is sometimesstudents do not have a
disability.
Oh, I oh, it did come back tome.
Now, ADHD is one of thosesituations where it's just we're
all over the map, meaning wemeaning my colleagues at the at
(21:41):
the post-secondary level indisability services, as far as
what we require in what's calleddocumentation.
Um, so while we're throwingvocabulary around, documentation
is a fancy word for thepaperwork that your student will
submit to us when they, oncethey're in college and they have
registered and they have astudent ID number, um, when they
(22:04):
register with the disabilityservices office, um, we will
most likely ask them fordocumentation of their
disability, which, you know, forlearning disabilities, more
obviously, is um often they'llrequire whatever was the most
recent testing.
For sensory disabilities, itmight be a form uh for whoever,
(22:28):
you know, identified or treatsthem.
Medical disabilities, the samething, uh, mental health
disabilities, again, you know,we're looking for a professional
to say, you are a student with adisability.
This is how I have identified ithere, or what your functional
limitations are.
Now, ADHD can be diagnosed by avariety of professionals,
(22:48):
including a pediatrician and awell visit.
And so families may find thatthis the school that their
student wants to attend requirestesting, which they've never
needed before, like the kindthat is given to students for
learning disabilities.
Um, and the college is allowedto do that.
And students who do not submitit are we don't have to find
(23:10):
them eligible foraccommodations.
Um, and even the case withautism, depending upon what
kinds of accommodations they arerequesting, if they're academic,
the college may look for umobjective documentation, meaning
not just sort of qualitativereports about their, you know,
the effects of their autism ontheir social interactions and
(23:33):
things, but they may be lookingfor evidence that they are
actually substantially limitedwhen it comes to academic
skills.
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
So complicated.
SPEAKER_04 (23:42):
And so parents could oh, you didn't think we were
having a simple conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (23:47):
Well, I mean, that's why we're having the
conversation because it is socomplicated, and anything we can
do to try to help uh, you know,unpack it a little bit for
parents is important.
So then at that point, parentscould and students could request
testing, they would have to dothat on their own and then bring
the test results to the college.
SPEAKER_04 (24:05):
I'm so glad you reminded me that I forgot to say
that.
So once students graduate, andeven if they are in K-12, the
school does not have to testthem simply because the K-12,
the high school doesn't have totest them simply because they
found out the college that theyattend will require it.
Um, so that's again a legalquagmire I don't really want to
(24:27):
get into, but also colleges arenot required to test students
who present to them.
Um, so that is something to keepin mind.
And on my website and on myYouTube channel, I have you know
a written post on the site andon my YouTube channel a video of
how to find documentationrequirements on disability
(24:47):
services sites.
Um it's not usually that hard,but I realize it can some of
these sites can be overwhelming.
And so I'll try to help you, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
So we'll also we'll link to that one as well.
All right.
I want I want to move on becausethere are a couple more, um, a
couple more that I think itreally is important to talk
about.
Um so what about the differencebetween what in high school
might be called their astudent's plan?
You mentioned a plan earlierversus um in college a letter of
(25:19):
accommodation.
SPEAKER_04 (25:21):
Oh, yeah, this is really important.
And actually, if you don't mind,I want to back us up to
coordinator versus case managerbecause I think, I mean, these
these conversations sort ofdovetail.
So um in high school, yourstudent has a case manager.
And certainly when it comes toIEPs under IDEA, that case
(25:42):
manager has a lot ofresponsibilities, right?
So they're they are writing umannual plans where they set
goals and objectives, theyidentify who's gonna provide
these services, they have toreport on progress to the
parents.
Um, they liaise or stay incontact with um teachers and
(26:03):
when necessary, administrators.
So college coordinators don'thave any such responsibilities.
Um, it is a very, very differentkind of job.
And be aware, you know, youmentioned um, you know, that a
president of the university isvery different than a principal
of a high school.
(26:24):
Um now what's interesting is adisability services coordinator
might also be the only personand therefore the also the
director of their own one-personoffice.
Um, and so that's not the reasonwhy they don't have the same
responsibilities, but to kind ofput this in context, it might be
(26:46):
the disability services directoris the sole employee of that
office and has a caseload ofliterally hundreds of students.
Now I was just looking at somedata from a 2022 survey of my
colleagues, and it said theaverage caseload was 135
students.
SPEAKER_03 (27:05):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (27:05):
But the range is quite wide.
So um at the college level, theperson that your student
interacts with around theiraccommodations may be called a
coordinator.
Um and so it might be an accesscoordinator, disability services
coordinator.
(27:26):
Now, there are places that callthose folks case managers, but I
do think that they just havemuch different responsibilities.
So here's what case managersgenerally, you know, with
exceptions, always possible,don't do.
They do not set goals andobjectives for your students.
Um, and this is where our othervocabulary comes in.
(27:48):
So high schools, as I said, haveto write a plan with all of
those details in them.
What we provide instead is anotification or letter of
accommodations.
And so, to give you a sense ofhow different this is, um your
student actually has to initiatethis whole process for
contacting our office,registering.
(28:10):
They can find that processonline, it will be obvious.
Um, I hope I should say.
They're gonna fill out a formbecause welcome to college.
You what and you know, yourfuture adult world, you must
fill out a form for absolutelyeverything, including for our
office, right?
And that form is gonna ask yourstudent lots of questions, um,
(28:32):
including what accommodationsare you requesting?
Why do you think you need them?
Why do you um why have you usedthem in the past?
How are they helpful?
Um, again, on my form, if you ifyou're already taking notes,
Vicky, I'll add to that.
I there's a free resource umthat I offer that kind of helps
students prepare for that umquestionnaire.
(28:52):
And they can, you it's a goodway to assess how much
self-knowledge your student has.
That's it's a Google formbecause it's disability
accessible that way.
And so it's but there's a linkfrom my site.
Um and so uh if your student andsee all these words come around,
right?
If your student is foundeligible, um, my colleagues do
(29:15):
things a variety of differentways.
A number of them have, you know,commercial products, these
programs where your student willget a notification from their
coordinator saying, hey, yes,we've approved you, we've
approved you for these things.
Remember, they're also notentitled to the same
accommodations just because wefound them eligible.
(29:36):
Um, they have to, you know,colleges get to determine which
accommodations we think are aresupported by their
documentation.
Um, and then the way some of mycolleagues set this up, they log
in and it says, um, here are allyour accommodations, and
students can select.
(29:57):
I want Professor Nelson to knowabout all of my accommodations,
and she clicks those thoseboxes, or I only want Professor
Nelson to know about theseaccommodations, and then they
send the notification.
Or I don't even want ProfessorNelson to know I have
accommodations and they don'thave to send them.
Um, sometimes our office sendsstudents a PDF of a letter, and
(30:22):
the student is responsible forforwarding it to their
professor.
And so um, as you can see, noneof this involves any plans.
Um, and the student plays a veryimportant role in communicating
with their professors that theyhave been approved.
And so um we're not monitoringyour students to see if they go
(30:47):
to class, which becomes an issuein college when they are not
literally locked in a buildingand if caught in a hallway, you
know, will get sent back toclass.
Um, we are not checking in withtheir professors to see how
they're doing.
We are not looking at theirgrades.
We often, some offices don'thave access to their grades.
It's just not part of what youknow the school thinks we we
(31:09):
need for their privacy.
Um we are not providing progressreports, certainly to parents,
but not even to students.
Students are back to theexpectations, expected to know
how they're doing.
Now, um, I know that it's nottrue of you, Professor Nelson,
but sometimes professors don'tget around to their grading very
(31:31):
quickly after collecting papersor exams.
Never me.
Never me.
No, I wouldn't think so.
Um, but we aren't in a positionto, for instance, make sure a
professor grades your paper soyou can see how you're doing.
You know, students have toself-advocate for all of these
things.
They want to know how they'redoing, they can check their
(31:53):
grades in the portal.
Um, if the grades aren't in theportal, they can show up at
office hours and say, hey, I waswondering when you might grade
my paper.
Yeah.
But it's we are not planning.
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
And just putting the the responsibility on the
students and students needing tobe proactive uh for so many
things.
I mean, it's not just studentswith learning disabilities, it's
all students.
And it's one of the things thatI see as a professor in the
(32:28):
classroom all the time, that Isee students struggling to make
that transition, struggling tounderstand that difference of
you're not going to necessarily,you know, so I'll I do grade my
papers and I I will post gradeson the on the portal and
(32:51):
students can see them.
But I think there's for many ofthem still an expectation that
if I'm in trouble, right, if mygrades are coming out to the
average of it being kind of low,the professor will reach out to
me.
So as long as I haven't heardanything from the professor
(33:14):
telling me I better shape up, Imust be doing okay.
So and and and that idea ofwell, I you know, I wasn't told
to come and see the professor inoffice hours, so I don't go to
office hours.
Those are just a couple ofexamples.
But I think that that shift tobe to self-advocacy, to being
(33:35):
proactive, um, is a is astruggle for a lot of students,
no matter where they are on anyum learning disability, learning
difference, no issues at all.
Uh it's a it's a tough one.
SPEAKER_04 (33:52):
Yeah, and that's so interesting.
I I I mean, when I was uhwriting the book, there are
there are some schools thathave, I don't know what they
call them, like alerts that goout perhaps after midterms.
Um, but what's so interestingabout them is at least as I
understood them, and andcertainly like not at every
college, is are the professorseven required to use it?
(34:17):
So the idea that professors arelooking after students in that
way, some certainly are, butthat's just their choice.
But we are not looking afterthem either.
If your student has um a problemwith the professor, if it's
related to your accommodations,yes, that's where a case manager
(34:37):
would, that's their role to stepin.
But again, um the student has toalert us that there's a problem.
Um, they do not, uh, they shouldnot rely on professors to say to
to disability services, you guysapproved an accommodation, and
here's why it can't work in myclass.
(34:58):
Um, it's gonna be the student'sresponsibility to come back to
us and to do so in a timelymanner so that we can take care
of it.
Um, you know, sometimes peopleshow a lot of flexibility with
deadlines and um, you know, andespecially administrative ones
for students with disabilities,but they may not find that um at
(35:19):
the college level.
And so um I write for a journalthat looks at Office for Civil
Rights decisions um as part ofwhat they do when students
complain about their college tothe to OCR.
And I've been astounded atsometimes a student, you know,
doesn't say anything about nothaving gotten a note taker or
(35:42):
the professor not having giventhem the approved extended time
until after the semester isover.
Um, and OCR is, you know, OCRwill ask the college to address
it moving forward, but they'renot gonna require the college to
let the student have a do-overor make the professor adjust the
(36:03):
grade.
Um, this is this is this is thebig leagues.
And I know students are only 18.
Um, and we know their prefrontalcortex is not gonna be done for
another 10 years or so.
But I think sometimes becausewe've been flexible with
students and adults haveprovided a lot of support, it
(36:23):
can be hard to see the areaswhere they're gonna need to
really step up.
And that's why this conversationis so important because knowing
these things, parents at homecan start to work on putting
more responsibility on theirstudents and stepping back
slowly so that you know they arethey're accustomed to handling
things.
(36:43):
They have systems in place formeeting deadlines.
Um, they learn how tocommunicate with authority
figures in an appropriate andand for them effective way.
SPEAKER_02 (36:56):
So that's a perfect transition into really what was
going to be my my next question,probably my last, you know, sort
of area that I think we want totouch on.
And that is understanding now,perhaps, that um that that there
are significant differencesbetween high school and college
(37:19):
in terms of what students areentitled to or eligible to, and
and the oversight, perhaps, thatthat the disabilities office um
is or is not uh expected to giveto students, uh, and that so
much more of this responsibilityfalls now on students'
shoulders.
(37:40):
Are there things that, and youjust touched on some, but are
there things that parents can bedoing to help students get
ready?
Uh, because that not only willthat help the student be ready,
but it as a parent, if I havesome confidence that my student
is ready, I'm going to worryless.
(38:00):
So, what what can parents do tohelp students get ready for this
shift?
SPEAKER_04 (38:06):
I think, you know, sort of just having a mindset of
building uh their independenceas much as possible.
And I can take so many differentforms.
And um, I think we're gonnahopefully get around to
interviewing my friend KellyChallen pretty soon, who is a
transition specialist forstudents with disabilities, but
has a lot of really helpfuladvice that, you know, much more
(38:29):
specific than I can provide,probably, about how to work on
those skills.
So, you know, it seems reallyobvious to people in FACIL, but
you know, are they gettingthemselves up for school in the
morning?
Are you constantly doing thatfor you?
Are you rescuing them by showingup at the high school with the
stuff that they forgot?
(38:50):
Are you reminding them aboutupcoming things?
Are you checking in with themabout projects that they've told
you are due?
Um, are they uh you know, makingtheir own doctor's appointments
and figuring out their um theirschedules by themselves?
These are all things um that aregonna be necessary when they get
(39:14):
to college.
Um, you know, you said, um,well, the professor didn't tell
me I had to come in.
Some of your students are notgoing to class.
So the professor is not evenseeing them.
Yes.
Um, and it's not, it's notthere.
And this is, you know, when wetalk about the expectations,
right?
We do expect them to go toclass.
And look, I'm I'm not gonna beum uh a Pollyanna about it.
(39:38):
Students over many, many yearshave said to me, professors
don't take attendance, theydon't care if you show up.
If you're pretty confident aboutthat, uh oh, okay.
I mean, I don't know why you'rethere.
It's you're spending the moneyor your parents' money to be
there.
But um, you know, it isn'tprofessor's job to email your
student and say, hey, I noticedyou haven't been in class.
(39:59):
Um, so when there is a challengewith your student and a and a
teacher, are you the one who'scalling?
Are you coaching your studentinto how to send an email and an
appropriate amount of time towait?
Or if they would rather talk inperson, you know, talking to
them about social norms, aboutyou don't just walk up to
(40:21):
somebody at the start of classwhen they are trying to get
themselves organized.
You ask about, you know, when isa convenient time for for us to
talk about this?
Um, and I laughed um when youtalked about going to the
president.
There's a scene in whatever theFacebook movie is called, the
social network, where um the thetwins you get into the meeting
(40:43):
with the Harvard president abouttheir problem with with Mark
Zuckerberg.
And he's you know, essentially,what are you doing here?
How did you even get anappointment?
And it's a scene that's reallystuck with me, like
understanding that there are umsystems in place and you often.
Have to start in a certain placeand you know move your way
through the um the processwithout jumping to the end.
SPEAKER_02 (41:07):
And you know, every everything you've just mentioned
in terms of preparing um appliesto all students.
Here's you know, this is whatI'm always saying.
Right.
Um, all of those things aboutemails and social understandings
and you know, going to class andpaying attention, all of that
stuff, um, making your owndoctor's appointments and all
(41:28):
are things that we have foryears been recommending that you
know, the more that you can dowith your student in high
school, they will be ready andyou will have the confidence in
knowing they're ready.
And actually, um, I will link inthe show notes to um our ebook
on you know something 60 tipsfor using the high school using
(41:50):
high school to prepare forcollege.
So things that parents can do tohelp students, you know, get
ready.
So um so they apply toeverybody.
Um, a couple of quick um sort ofmore specific questions.
What about IEP meetings duringhigh school and all?
Should students be part of that?
SPEAKER_04 (42:11):
Yeah, I mean, I I have to say I'm a little bit of
a um an outlier in thisconversation because what's
interesting is um there isn'tthe right parallel um at the
college level for thosemeetings.
And what I mean is, and this ispart of this differences
conversation we're talkingabout, when students register
(42:33):
with us, it's and they may haveto have a one-on-one meeting as
a part of that intake process.
SPEAKER_02 (42:40):
Yeah, so I was going, that was gonna be another
question.
So you can combine the answers.
SPEAKER_04 (42:44):
I've got to add to our list, Vicky.
I have an interview of uh avideo on my YouTube channel
where a colleague and friend umwho's a disability services
director talked about thoseintake meetings and what kinds
of questions he asks, what hethinks students should be asking
him.
It's not like a job interviewwhere if your student says the
wrong thing, they get nothing.
(43:06):
It's just an opportunity to, youknow, learn more about that
student.
Um let me see if I can figureout where we're going with that.
Oh, so the the uh IEP meetings.
So what I find ironic is I IDEAis all about individualization.
And then we sort of make it likethe only way to prepare students
for this is to make them runtheir own IEP meetings.
(43:28):
Now, you know, most teenagerswould rather not sit in a room
with a bunch of adults, and notto say that they shouldn't ever
be taken out of their comfortzone, because college is all
about being out of a comfortzone, right?
Um, but I think that what theyneed is an understanding of how
(43:48):
they came to be identified as astudent with a disability, what
that what their strengths are,because that's really, really
important.
Um, what is an accommodation forthem?
Because some of the researchindicates in some places that
they don't even realize thatwhat's happening for them is an
accommodation, um, so that theycan clearly identify those.
(44:09):
Um, and so the IEP meeting canbe one of several ways to start
preparing them for this stuff.
I don't think they need to runtheir own meeting, as some
people have suggested.
Being present might not be a badidea, but also, you know, to
understand what people are aresaying.
But um, there is no parallel atthe college level.
(44:31):
And for parents, you know, it'simportant for them to know like
we're not gonna have a bunch ofmeetings over your students'
four years where we call all theprofessors in and say, and how
is Elizabeth doing?
Back to if they want to know,they can check the portal, and
if it's not there, they can goto office hours.
So um it's it's a whole newworld.
I mean, one thing you keepsaying, and I and I have an
(44:54):
addition to that, is that um wewant parents to feel confident
that their students areindependent and and are ready.
I really want students to feelthat way.
And what always worries me whenI hear about a student getting a
lot of supports, um, is thatsorry, that is a very crabby cat
(45:17):
who decided to be uh in themiddle of our conversation.
Um is that uh students recognizehow much support they're getting
for adults.
And I I worry that it undercutstheir confidence.
Um when an adult is there atevery moment to direct them and
(45:37):
say, you know, when when tutorssit down and say, okay, here's
what we're gonna do, instead ofwhat do you have to do?
Show me your planner, what uhplans do you have to meet this
deadline?
Um, then they're not buildingthose skills when parents, you
know, are not placingresponsibilities.
I mean, everything should beindividualized, of course, but
(46:01):
um there are parents who don'trequire students to take on any
responsibilities at home.
You know, darling, you justfocus on your academics and we,
you know, we'll take care ofthat.
That's not building theircapacity.
Many students are capable ofdoing more than they are.
Um, if we require it, we givethem some direction.
(46:22):
I mean, it seems dumb, butknowing how to do your laundry,
um, and knowing that if youleave it in the machine, it will
be moldy and damp and you'llhave to wash it all over again.
So um I think looking at theexpectations that they're
setting for their own students,and you know, parents love their
(46:43):
students, and that's why they doall of this supporting of them.
Um, but looking to see wherethere are things that their
students could learn to do,teaching them how, scaffolding
this experience, and thenletting go.
It's not always going to beperfect.
I also forget towels in thewashing machine and have to
wash.
SPEAKER_02 (47:03):
I was thinking, been there, done that.
SPEAKER_04 (47:06):
So I think too, you know, when we are um looking at
our students and we want them todo well and and and we're we're
imagining this level ofperfection that we should get
them to.
And that is gets in the waysometimes of parents letting go.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
And sometimes failure, yeah, you know, maybe
failure with a small F ratherthan a capital F builds that
muscle and builds the resiliencemuscle.
So again, everything you'retalking about applies to every
single student.
SPEAKER_04 (47:44):
You know, I we were one thing I want to mention too,
we were talking about deadlinesand and flexibility that people
show for students.
Um, and and I was thinking of aspecific disability-related
example, but it's also true forother students.
At some colleges, housing stocksare limited.
And so students may ask for anaccommodation in housing, which,
(48:07):
from you know, this is not partof my job, but from what I see
in the conversations in mycommunity, often students would
like to have a room forthemselves, a single room based
on their disability.
Um, if the college runs out ofrooms that they can make
available to students as asingle um because a student
(48:29):
missed the housing deadline,they are not going to
necessarily kick a student out.
Again, this is where we wouldthink very hard about their
eligibility for thataccommodation, how uh
substantial their limitation isbecause there are maybe other
students who also want the samething, and whether that is
something that we have torequire, you know, do.
(48:50):
But we're not going to kickstudents out of their rooms
because a student with adisability waited too long.
Um, if there's limited housing,um, it's not uh an entitlement
to get on campus housing as astudent with a disability.
It may be considered dependingon the severity of the
disability.
But our our our you knowstudents in the general
(49:12):
population who miss the housingdeadline also don't get rooms.
SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Yeah.
So I I'm trying to think, youknow, you know, we've covered so
much ground.
I'm trying to think, okay, howdo we how do we kind of sum this
up at the end?
I mean, I think I'm hearing um,you know, everything that
parents can do to preparestudents um so that both student
(49:40):
and parent have some confidencethat the student's going to be
able to manage.
And sometimes less is more,doing less, um, re redirecting,
directing from the backgroundrather than write up, you know,
right, right up doing for, oryou know, maybe you do with
this, instead of doing for thestudent, you move toward doing
(50:01):
with the student, and then yougradually move back and and and
let them do it.
Um, the importance of uhself-advocacy, and again for all
students, self-advocacy andbeing proactive and and not
waiting for someone to come toyou because that's not not
always going to happen.
(50:22):
Um also uh and I think youtalked about this at the at the
very beginning, that eachinstitution may be slightly
different in what they do andhow they handle things and um
what they call things and andand the names, you know, but but
that accuracy and that um thatawareness and that sensitivity
(50:46):
toward terminology, which iswhere we started.
This was a vocabulary uhepisode.
Um, don't just don't justassume, ask questions, um, try
to clarify, make sure it's notthat you're assuming this term
means this when that term meansthat, um, and just uh, you know,
(51:08):
encourage your student to asklots of questions and to know
that things in college for allstudents, uh, and maybe
especially for students withdisabilities are going to be
different.
Yeah, everybody.
And that those differences areconnected to different
expectations.
SPEAKER_04 (51:27):
And I think too, you know, setting your own
expectations uh at the rightlevel for how they do in that
first year, right?
It's it's it is an adjustmentfor everybody.
And your students are taking onso many different demands.
And so, you know, kind of beingclear headed about what that
first year might look like, um,and not being disappointed if
(51:51):
things are just, you know, notas strong as you're used to.
It is the expression goes, atleast academically, that college
is not grade 13.
SPEAKER_02 (52:02):
And the students uh that I teach in their first
year, and then I see them intheir junior and their senior
year, and it is amazing for mostof them, uh, especially if they
are consciously working atlearning the skills, adapting
(52:23):
and and moving from there.
They will get there.
They they are very different infour years.
Uh, I think sometimes it ishelpful for parents who have
seniors and they're worriedabout high school, um, I mean,
worried about college, um, tothink back to what their student
(52:44):
was like in their freshman yearof high school and where they
are in their senior year of highschool.
Wow.
And to remember you've gotanother set of four years like
that for your student to growand change.
And so maybe that's a good agood place to end the episode is
you know, to to you know, workat it, understand the
differences, differentexpectations, but to recognize
(53:08):
that college is a four-yearjourney and your student.
SPEAKER_04 (53:11):
And and not always, not always just four years.
SPEAKER_02 (53:15):
So we hope it's helpful.
Thank you to everybody who hasstuck with us to the end.
Uh, if you have a student withlearning disabilities, I know
this episode was hugely helpfulto you.
Uh, if you don't, if you have astudent who does not have
learning diff differences orlearning disabilities, um, you
know, hopefully you can pulllots of this information that is
(53:39):
helpful to every single student,no matter what.
Um, we're going to put lots oflinks in the show notes, so be
sure you go and visit the shownotes.
And thanks so much for beingwith us, and we'll see you next
time.
SPEAKER_04 (53:54):
Thanks, Vicky.
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