March 4, 2026 • 49 mins
In this episode, Vicki and Elizabeth sit down with transition specialist Kelly Challen to unpack what truly prepares teens for college and adult life: agency, executive function, and repeat practice with real responsibility. Kelly shares how to choose low-stakes experiments—having students email teachers, schedule their own tutoring, manage appointments, or learn to rebound from failures. We also talk about life skills we’ve all observed that quietly derail success—students’ ability to handle their own alarms, laundry, room hygiene, and basic routines. Whatever transition your student may be facing, this conversation will help you talk together about how to prepare.
Thank you for listening!
- Much more information for college parents can be found on our website, College Parent Central
- Find us on Twitter at @CollParCentral
- Find us on Bluesky at @CollParCentral.bsky.social
- Sign up for our newsletter for ongoing information
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already incollege, this podcast is for
you.
You'll find food for thought andinformation about college and
about navigating that delicatebalance of guidance,
involvement, and knowing when toget out of the way.
(01:24):
Join your hosts as they sharesupport and a celebration of the
amazing experience of having achild in college.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
This is the podcast where wetalk about just about everything
we can think of that has to dowith parenting, a student who's
in high school and thinkingabout college, a student who is
in college, and sometimes astudent who's about to step out
of college.
Um, because it's a big job forus as parents.
(02:00):
My name is Vicki Nelson, and Iam a professor of communication
at a small liberal arts college.
But probably even moreimportant, I am the mother of
three daughters who have allgone to college and have come
out on the other side, and we'veall survived it.
And I am here today um with oneof my co-hosts and with a
(02:25):
special guest, and I'm veryexcited about this.
Um I was I was I stumbled onsomething on the internet a
little while ago, and it wasthis wonderful article about
using post-its to help studentsor help your kids learn about
(02:46):
executive functioning.
Um and it really struck a chordum because I was thinking of two
things.
I was thinking of uh one of mygrandsons who uh has ADHD and is
try is in middle school tryingto uh get a handle on everything
(03:06):
and how he's going to functionincreasingly independently.
Um and then I was also thinkingof the college freshmen that I
teach who need a lot of help tofigure out how to manage on
their own.
So this article just struck achord for me.
And then I was talking withElizabeth, my co-host, whom I'm
(03:27):
going to allow to get a word inedgewise and introduce herself
in a minute.
Um and she said, Oh yes, I knowKelly Challenge who wrote the
article.
We we work together.
So um then it was a done dealthat we had to get Kelly on the
podcast.
So, with that being said, um,I'm going to toss it over to
(03:48):
Elizabeth Hamlet, my co-host,and let her take it from here.
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
Well, thanks, Vicki.
Um Elizabeth Hamlet.
I am a college uh learningdisabilities specialist and
author of Seven Steps toSuccess, a pathway.
I'm sorry, Seven Steps toCollege Success, a pathway for
students with disabilities.
And so I am so delighted to haveour guest here.
And what Vicky has so kindly notmentioned is I've actually been
(04:16):
nagging her about getting Kellyon the podcast.
He's so polite.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
I just didn't connect the dots when I read the
article that this was the sameperson you had been talking
about.
SPEAKER_03 (04:27):
So because Kelly and I connected a few years ago um
through a professionalexperience, but I have since um
been devouring all of herwriting.
She is a really, really smart,thoughtful uh professional who
is helping students with collegetransition and other kinds of
(04:49):
transitions, as she willdiscuss.
Um and executive functioning iscertainly a huge part of what I
help my students with at thecollege level.
Um, so I was just so tickledwhen Vicky emailed me and said,
Hey, I came across this post.
This woman's name seems familiarto me.
(05:09):
So finally we have Kelly here onthe podcast.
So um, with that, I'm gonna letKelly talk a little bit more
about what she does, what atransition specialist is, and um
we'll take it from there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
Sure.
Um, thank you so much, Vicki andElizabeth, for having me here
today.
I'm really excited to be on andbe able to talk with you both.
Um I am Kelly Challenge.
I'm a transition specialist andthe founder of Challen Education
and Transition Services.
And so I have the pleasure ofworking with teenagers and young
adults, um, sort of anywherebetween ages 12 all the way up
(05:46):
to late 20s, which is anexciting period of time to get
to work with young people.
Many of the folks that I workwith have disabilities or
learning differences, and I getto work with them during K-12
education as well as afterwards,with the focus of really helping
them move from high school intocollege, into employment, into
(06:07):
more independent living or otherpost-secondary kinds of paths
based on their own goals.
Um a lot of my focus is planningbeyond the IEP, but certainly
not every student I work withhas been on an IEP or has even
been on a 504 plan.
And I guess when I think abouttransition planning, it's
helping to not just think aboutgraduation.
(06:28):
I think we can sort of focus onend of high school as a finish
line that we're getting to.
And what I try to really helpstudents that I work with to
focus on is readiness for theadult activities that come after
that.
It's setting the goals aroundthe adult activities that come
after that.
Um, I tend to really focus onthree different buckets of
(06:49):
planning.
Um, what are your independentliving types of goals?
And that can also have to dowith how you engage in your
community.
Um, what are your learning ortraining goals for after high
school?
And then what are you thinkingabout for working?
And I talk a lot with studentstoo about um what's the first
job you want to have, right?
Not just what are your long-termgoals around employment, but
what's the very first thing youthink you might want to get paid
(07:10):
for?
Um, what could you see yourselfdoing?
So it's really that living,learning, and working activities
and that focus on preparing forlife beyond high school.
Um, and I will do transitionplanning with obviously students
in K-12 education, but you cantransition plan as an individual
from any point in your life,right?
I mean, we could all sit here asadults who have careers and
(07:32):
think, what do I want to bedoing in my independent life?
Do I want to do any morelearning or training?
You know, are there workactivities I haven't gotten to
take part in yet that wouldreally be goals for me in the
future?
And so those areas of living andlearning and working can be used
to plan from any point in timean individual's at.
Um, so that's me in a nutshell.
(07:55):
Um, and kind of the idea oftransition planning.
And I do conduct transitionassessments and I do
consultation, I do some coachingfor students getting ready for
college, I do some coaching forstudents who are planning to get
out of college.
Um, but really anything that Ican do with students through
that transition planning lens,I'm excited to do.
And I certainly do a lot ofprofessional development and
(08:15):
training and speaking aroundthat too.
SPEAKER_03 (08:18):
And Kelly and I will be doing our first co-presenting
uh gig next month.
So we're very excited.
Um, it's been a lot of funworking with her.
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
And and Kelly, you're you're I think about a
step ahead of me because you'veyou've answered some of what uh
question that I had.
Um, and I think it's reallyfascinating because as you said,
you know, we all go throughthese transitions all the time.
But I think so often we thinkabout a transition um as
(08:50):
something that happens to us.
Uh certainly, you know, we talkto the freshmen.
I teach a lot of freshmen, andand we say, you know, this is a
big transition for you.
And um, but the idea of planningfor transition, of uh feeling as
though you have control overthat transition is is really
(09:11):
very different than just sittingback and saying, this thing is
going to happen.
I wonder how it's going to go.
Um, so it's fascinating the workthat you do.
And I assume you work with thestudents who are going to be
transitioning, but also withparents.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
I do.
I do um I work with parents alot, and I provide a lot of
parent consultation andpreparation and coaching and
sort of especially help umallowing students to set their
own goals and thinking about thesteps to reach those goals.
Um and anytime I'm working withparents, I'm also very honest
(09:54):
with them that my priority isalways going to be the student's
vision for themselves and how wecan get to that, um, how we can
understand uh students' goals.
Students do not always haverealistic goals for themselves,
but I'm sure none of us dideither when we, you know, when
we were teenagers.
And I think whether you're astudent uh who has disabilities
(10:16):
or not, um, we need to create asense of agency for students,
that it's okay to set a goal,try something, have that work or
not work, um, but really beempowered to be in charge.
And that's that's one of thebiggest pieces of transition
planning for students is thatsense of agency, is that sense
of control, um, and is helpingthe adults in the student's life
(10:40):
to relinquish that control alittle bit.
Um, so that's a big piece of theparent work.
SPEAKER_03 (10:46):
Yeah.
So as a college learningdisability specialist, that is,
you know, the specificpopulation that I work with.
And so a lot of who Kelly workswith are students with
disabilities.
And, you know, what I what wesee in the research um is that
and and and anecdotally in mycommunity of professionals
(11:08):
where, you know, othercolleagues are writing in about
the issues with students, youknow, some of what we're seeing
is they are coming to college beaccustomed to a lot of adult
support and direction, um, andnot a lot of agency, as you
said, and independence.
(11:28):
Um, and so, you know, part ofwhat Kelly and I have been
talking about too is you know,here's what I'm saying, here's
what we're seeing on the collegeend, what what could be
happening at the high school,you know, end of this this
transition that would help.
And I imagine that sometimesparents see students doing very
(11:51):
well, you know, certainlyacademically, perhaps, you know,
just uh in general, um executivefunction-wise, seemingly, like
things are pulled togetherbecause of the amounts of
sometimes, you know, invisiblesupport that they're getting,
um, structure in place.
And when you talk to them abouttrying to pull back some of
(12:14):
those supports, which I think isreally important in truly
assessing whether this studenthas the skills needed wherever
they're going after high school,but that there's resistance,
understandably, on parents'part, because they see the
student doing well.
And in some cases, they'vegotten to that place from uh
from where the students were notdoing well.
(12:36):
And so the idea of taking awaysupports is terrifying.
So, how do you talk to them alittle bit about their concerns
that their student might, youknow, failure can mean a lot of
different things and take a lotof different shapes, but how do
you talk to them about it?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
I I think there is so much nuance um in this topic.
Uh, we could probably spend theentire time together talking
about this.
I mean, I I think one of thefirst places to come from with
anyone you're working with,right?
But certainly with parents, isvalidating that this is
stressful, this is scary.
(13:11):
And I think what's so hard abouthigh school engagement when
you're preparing for college isthere are some stakes here,
right?
Um, when a student is in highschool and we're asking parents
to start to scale back support,or asking parents to ask
teachers and other people tostart to scale back support,
(13:33):
there is a risk that studentswill struggle, right?
There is a risk that a studentmay bomb a test, or, you know,
if they're working on getting upin the morning, be late to
school.
There and there are risks aboutthings that could affect the
student's record, which thendoes affect their applications.
And that is something thatpeople are quite worried about.
(13:54):
Um, what I try to talk about alittle bit is that there are
even bigger risks to not scalingback and having the student head
off to college or head off toother adult activities without
having had the opportunity,right?
We talk a lot about where wouldwhere would you prefer a student
(14:18):
to fail, right?
Or a student to struggle.
And I think many parents wouldmuch prefer to be able to be
there, be with their student, beable to support them, be able to
reassure them.
Um, you know, if a student goesthrough some of that struggling
at home, as opposed to in thedorm, or as opposed to uh on the
(14:39):
other side of the country.
Um, so I think it's just I'm I'ma large believer in helping
people to understand reality andwhat's realistic and sort of
playing out different scenariosin terms of what happens if we
don't scale back support now.
And I think as as you and I talkabout often, there's also just
(15:01):
sometimes misunderstandingsabout what the future will look
like and can look like in termsof levels of support.
So there are certainly thoseconversations to have.
But um, I think a different, youknow, a piece of this strategy
also is talking about what arethe risks that you feel like you
could let your child take,right?
(15:22):
What are the small steps thatyou might be willing to let them
take?
You know, is it emailing ateacher when they've missed an
assignment or when they need toget work before they're going to
miss school for a medicalappointment, right?
Is it letting them managescheduling one of their tutoring
sessions or one of theirappointments on their own?
(15:44):
Is it, you know, are therethings that they could allow the
student to miss or forgetcomfortably, right?
Maybe it's not a midterm exam,but maybe it is a homework
assignment, or maybe there's aclass where things are a little
bit lower stakes that they feellike they could allow a student
to start taking some moreautonomy in.
(16:05):
So I'm always looking for what'spossible.
You know, it's sort of whenwe're resistant to change, I'm
always looking for, well, whereis there wiggle room here?
Where is there something youcould be comfortable with as a
parent?
Um, you know, and where's yourstudent motivated so they might
actually be more successful withless support and really sort of
trying to find um the easiestpoint of access and uh the
(16:28):
easiest point for reducing someof those supports.
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
You know, what strikes me as you're describing
all of that is also um not onlyletting it letting that failure,
if we call it that, happen whileparents are there to support it,
but once students go away toschool, it may be happening and
(16:52):
parents don't know about it.
I mean, so many of the studentsthat I see that have trouble and
and parents are clueless.
So getting that sort of heads upum while they're home is even
more important.
SPEAKER_03 (17:08):
Well, I was gonna say, if I might, and and Vicky,
you and I, our most recent umpodcast together was about the
vocabulary of the college uhdisability services environment
specifically and the changesthere.
And so, you know, part of thatis understanding um that they're
(17:29):
not gonna have the access, thatthe case managers do very
different things.
And so, you know, as Kellyalluded to, they are expecting
sometimes this level ofattention to their student by
adults, you know, at thecollege, by staff and faculty,
that just isn't going to bethere.
And so was when Kelly wastalking about, you know, they
(17:53):
they have to schedule one oftheir learning um specialists,
understanding that, you know,college staff really isn't
responsible, for instance, forchasing students.
So when a student, the way thatI get students where I work is
an email goes out.
Some students don't read theiremails, they never see it.
(18:13):
Um, we do not send a follow-upemail from my office.
Um, once they respond to me, Igo back to them and say, Here
are my available times.
Sometimes that's where the thecommunication trail ends.
Um, you know, or I hear fromthem two weeks later and they
say, Hey, you know, do you havesomething tomorrow?
And I have to say, no, I'malready booked.
(18:33):
So the things that families areaccustomed to are not things
that that we necessarilyprovide.
And so I think talking to themabout the exceptions that are
being made, the flexibility thattheir students are getting,
because I think sometimes thatstuff is invisible.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Absolutely.
And um I have um, you know,different checklists that I like
to use.
Uh Elizabeth knows I sort ofhave one that I've put together
over the years.
It's just 31 must have collegereadiness skills.
But there are lots of checklistson the internet.
And it's um, I'm a big believerin in data.
(19:13):
And what's interesting is if aparent and a student fill out
something like that together,sometimes, you know, it has the
skills that we know areimportant for college success.
And sometimes when they'refilling those types of things
out, they'll say, Oh, well, hewon't need to do that in
college.
Right.
And so it opens the door.
Um, sometimes that alone helpsparents to understand what's
(19:36):
going to be expected.
And then they have an aha momentin terms of what number of
skills or what number ofresponsibilities a student needs
to be learning and building.
Um, but sometimes it's reallythere's a sense of disbelief
there.
And then the work is around uhlearning more about what's
realistic in college, um, andyou get a sense of where to
(19:57):
focus in, um, which is just soimportant.
I there's a there's a certainamount of psychoeducation that's
part of this transition process,right?
It's sort of learning about therealities of college, learning
the vocabulary of college.
Um and, you know, you can't beself-aware, you can't sort of
know what to expect if you don'tknow what the realities are of
(20:20):
college.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
When you have parents who say, well, you know,
oh, it doesn't matter that thecollege won't provide a learning
specialist or an executivefunctioning coach or somebody to
meet with my kid, you know,three times a week.
And but we can provide it, orI'll be that support for my
student.
Um, you know, how do you talk tothem?
(20:43):
And also I'm curious aboutwhether you get a gauge of the
students' response to that.
You know, how do where where arestudents in all of this as their
parents are, you know, feelingunderstandably?
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
I I think students are all over the place in that,
you know, some students would bedelightfully happy to have the
same exact level of support thatthey have in high school for
their entire adult lives.
I'd be happy to have that levelof support as an adult, right?
I mean, I'd be happy to havesomebody else hand me a schedule
for the day, tell me what I'mcooking for dinner, right?
(21:20):
So I think some students are,you know, are uh would be happy
to have that.
I I think the reality is thereis a lot that you can outsource.
There is a lot that you couldprivately pay for when making
this transition to college, um,but there's a lot that you
(21:41):
cannot.
And so, you know, it's it'srunning through that exercise
again of okay, if you were goingto uh pay for a support program
as part of college, or if you'regonna pay for private executive
function coach, you know, whatare the limits on what that
person can do and what thestudent still has to do?
(22:01):
I mean, there are expectationsthat colleges have, right,
systemically in terms of whatstudents will be responsible for
themselves.
There are ethics codes in termsof what students need to
actually do on their own.
Uh, so again, it goes to some ofthat, you know, information.
I mean, I think externalsupports can help, but they
(22:24):
can't replace internal skill,right?
Um, you can't you can'toutsource ownership over the
college process.
And it's not successful to dothat because a student who
requires a really high amountof, you know, a student who's
going to require tutoring andacademic coaching and you know,
and is going to be spending asignificant number of hours per
(22:47):
day using supports so that theycan manage the academics of
college.
Has an enormous amount of workahead of them, right?
And is going to need an enormousamount of grit to get through
that.
And there are students I workwith who are very much up for
that.
And it's incredible, right?
(23:08):
And we talk about the that, youknow, those students actually
being able to manage, you know,the college experience four or
five classes at a time with allof that support, they will miss
some of the social life ofcollege.
They may miss some of theimportant networking that would
be helpful for employment later.
(23:28):
Um, but they're up for it.
And so as long as everyone's onthe same page about the amount
of work it's gonna take and theamount of resources, you know,
financial, emotional, timeresources that it will take,
that's something that could bepart of a plan for a student.
Um, but students and parentsalso need to understand what a
(23:48):
student's giving up, you know.
Um, and if a parent says they'regonna do it themselves, I think
the risk there as opposed to apaid provider who understands
the college system is that oftenparents don't understand the
college system, don'tunderstand, you know, what would
I need my student to actuallygive me access to to make sure
(24:09):
they were turning in their work,you know, to make sure they were
attending their classes.
Um so I think it's a it's a bigrisk when a parent thinks
they're gonna be the support forthe transition, uh, if they're
trying to keep that in place.
Uh it's an enormous cost ifthey're expecting other people
to do it.
I mean, I think there's always abenefit to reducing support to
(24:33):
whatever extent is possible inhigh school and increasing
autonomy to whatever extent ispossible in high school.
And that does look different fordifferent students.
And then there are all differentkinds of colleges that students
can attend.
Um, there are some things thatcolleges just absolutely cannot
do, but there there isflexibility um from one college
to another in terms of um howsmall and how supportive and how
(24:57):
personal the relationships areand things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
You know, it really makes me wonder if a student
needs that high level of all ofthese sports in college, what
happens to them after college?
What you know are parents goingto continue to hire coaches who
are going to be able to go towork with the with the student?
And I I mean it just at somepoint it it seems they have to
(25:24):
launch.
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
Yes, and at some point there, I mean, there has
to be internal motivation there.
It it's also there's this pieceof when we overfunction and
overhelp students, we'reimplicitly sending a bit of a
message that we don't believethey can do it, or that we don't
(25:46):
believe they, you know, have theand and there's a difference
between not having learned to dosomething yet, or not having a
good executive function systemfor being able to do something
consistently yet, and and justreally not being capable, right?
And I think uh I think sometimesit's not recognized that adults
are sending that message, um, orthat a student is internalizing
(26:09):
that message, even if that's notwhat's intending to be sent.
And that that's a really highrisk, then, Vicky, for you know,
students thinking they need,right?
I I can't possibly do a jobunless I have a coach, you know,
five hours a week who's gonnaprocess with me at the end of
the day or go to the job sitewith me.
And we really uh I thinkstudents are capable of a lot
more, um, but haven't had theopportunities to plan and
(26:33):
problem solve and initiate andstructure for themselves yet.
SPEAKER_03 (26:38):
And Kelly, I would assume that you also interact
with like whatever it's calledin everybody's state, the
Department of Vocational Rehab,um, which for students, and it
varies from state to state, maybe eligible for you know, from
some supports from DVR, umeither for college or to go into
(26:58):
a job site, but I think um it'snot as many students as perhaps
parents would like to seereceiving support.
And I I'm so glad that you saidthat about you know students'
sense of self-efficacy too andthe messages that they're
internalizing, because um right,un until they've been given a
(27:19):
chance to try something, wedon't know what they're capable
of doing.
And, you know, it doesn't meanthat you just, you know, shove
them off the ledge and and hopethat they fly, but starting to
model for your students whatyou're doing, you know, being
explicit in your everyday lifewith them about what you are
doing, how you are supportingthem, you know, eventually,
(27:41):
turning over control and and andmastery of this stuff to them
and understanding and beingpatient with the fact that it
won't always work out, as you'vesaid.
You know, sometimes they'regonna miss an appointment.
I miss appointments and I'm areally good executive
functioner.
Um, but that is life.
And also, so that resiliencepiece, too.
You know, this idea that theycan never ever experience any
(28:05):
kind of even, you know, tiny,tiny failure.
Um, I think doesn't allow themthe opportunity to see that
they'll they'll make it through,it will be a bummer.
And you know, they might have toapologize, they you know, they
might have to inconveniencethemselves for to to make
something up, but that they cando it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Yeah, but I think that competence builds
confidence.
And uh, when they finally seethat they can do the things that
others have been doing for them,you know, to your point, yes,
some of them would be delightedto always have somebody around,
but I I do worry about thatanxiety that some of them might
go to college with, that theyhave never been able to be
(28:46):
successful without a whole lotof adult help.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
I think we have, I mean, I I know, right?
We know now through researchthat this is more of a
complication for many teenagersis having that anxiety and that
worry that they can't do thingson their own and having had
those fewer problem-solvingopportunities and being a little
(29:10):
bit more um reliant on parentsin particular.
Um, it's it's a generation thatis much more connected with
their parents, and there arewonderful positives to that.
But college is absolutely asystem that expects students to
be somewhat individuated fromtheir parents.
Um and as we were talking aboutbefore, a little bit, I mean,
(29:33):
there are certain things you cando for a college student and
there are certain things youcannot.
You know, I cannot register formy child with disability support
services.
unknown (29:43):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Right?
Um, I can't show up to thetutoring session for them.
So so there are just certainthings that um you you can't pay
for, you can't do for.
Um, and we want students to knowthey can do it and they can miss
an appointment, and that's okay.
They can reschedule it, youknow, not always as quickly as
they want to.
(30:04):
Um, but really um wantingstudents to know that they have
those abilities and that theyhave some problem-solving
systems on their own.
Uh, I had a parent I was workingwith not that long ago who
really wanted to know like whichlife skills are the very most
important life skills to startwith.
And my answer was that reallyit's the what do you do when you
(30:27):
don't know the life skill skill?
You know, is it that the studentknows that they are comfortable
looking things up on YouTubewhen they need to learn how to
problem solve something new?
You know, is it that they'recomfortable using an AI chat bot
to help them, you know, create atask analysis to be able to do a
task?
You know, what what is it that astudent uh can do when they hit
(30:50):
the one skill that they didn'tlearn how to do?
Whether that's writing a check,you know, which we do so
infrequently that we all sort offorget how to do it at this
addressing an envelope.
But it happens sometimes.
So uh so I think there are somany skills that are important
to learn because they make youfeel that confidence and
competence as you're makingtransitions.
(31:11):
And then knowing that you havesome you know, some ability to
problem solve when you hit a newskill, because we all do in
life, is also really criticalfor young people.
So um yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
That skill of asking questions and and asking for
help.
Uh so many students, uh allkinds of students, you know,
executive function or not, justdon't ask for help.
And they and they it seems asthough they have this feeling
that being independent means youhave to do everything yourself
(31:47):
and you can't rely or or askother people.
Um so so you're talking you knowa lot about the you know the the
things that they can't do andand and how to help them.
What are are are are there acouple of things that you find
many students struggle with?
What are the kinds of thingsthat really might they might
(32:11):
encounter as a roadblock?
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
I I mean I certainly think waking up on their own, as
basic as that sounds, is issomething that very few students
really do nowadays.
Some of my students, it's likethey know how to set the alarm,
but then there's still a parentprompt somewhere in that routine
before they're making it out thedoor.
And I again I understand thatoften, you know, high school
(32:38):
starts at hours that are not,you know, not really humanly
appreciative of whereadolescents are and how much
sleep they need.
But it's we have an episode withLisa about uh teens and sleep,
don't we?
Yeah, but it but that's animportant skill.
I mean, laundry is a funny onethat students just haven't
always always done.
(33:00):
And um I think I had heard adifferent, I don't know if it
was something I read on theinternet or a different episode
that was talking about a studentwho hadn't learned to change
their bed sheets.
And so the parent was planningto allow them to just put six
sets of bed sheets on their bed,like one on top of another, take
(33:20):
one set of sheets off per week,and then in six weeks the parent
would come up and do the laundryand you know, rechange the
other.
Well, and it's interesting, Ithink you can see it from either
perspective, and that's what'samazing, right?
You could say that's extreme,like why can't this kid just
learn this skill?
Or you could say, is that thehill you know that you want to
(33:42):
die on?
Is that and I I think there's apicking and choosing for each
student of which skills are moreimportant.
I tend to think if a student'sgoing to be far away from home,
laundry is a really importantskill, and students seem to not
be getting as much exposure tothat.
Medication management is a bigone.
If you happen to be somebody whoneeds medication, especially for
(34:02):
attention or mood or otherthings, making sure that
students really, and it's notjust can I take my medications
every day, but do I know what todo when it needs refilling?
Um, and some of that could bedone automatically, but
sometimes it's not a perfectsystem.
So uh really students managingthat can be critical.
SPEAKER_03 (34:21):
But you know, I that sheet example is such a good one
because, first of all, I mean,we don't know anything about the
family.
Did the family try to teach thestudent how, you know,
explicitly how to change theirsheets?
And if not, you know, I stillevery once in a while look on
YouTube for a better ironingstrategy.
And I realize college studentsare not ironing, but in other
(34:42):
words, that is a strategy, likehere are the number of sheets
we're gonna provide you with.
We think it's a good idea foryou to wash them regularly, and
like that that seeking out ofhow that it's self-advocacy,
right?
I'm struggling with this.
Maybe I could get on theinternet and find somebody to
help me too.
Because what I also think aboutis like maybe the roommate sees
(35:04):
them do that, and maybe there'sa sense of embarrassment by the
student with the successivesheets that they don't they
haven't learned to do.
Now, again, I don't assumeanything, but you think we're
we're leaving out that piece ofthe confidence and you know,
just even the socialacceptability of not being able
to do certain things thatperhaps they might have if
(35:27):
they'd had a chance to try andhad some instruction.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Well, and I realize I focused on life skills because
I think those are sometimesforgotten, but there are
certainly, you know, academicthings that students are just
not used to managing some of thedeadlines or long-term
assignments in the way that youneed to in college.
Um volume of work.
I mean, there are surprisesbecause the systems are quite
(35:53):
different.
And I think when you think abouttransitioning to college, you're
making a lot of learning and alot of living changes all at the
same time.
So anything that can be done tofront load being used to, you
know, to more in in either oneof those buckets is really
helpful in terms of managingthat transition.
(36:14):
Um, and there the social piecethat you're mentioning, right?
It's a college is a weird socialsystem.
It's you know, living with abunch of adolescents is such a
unique experience.
Um, and there are lots of thingsthat can come up.
And certainly if you're someonewho's not comfortable advocating
(36:35):
or asking for help, right?
There are so many um risks orjust discomforts that can come
along with that.
So uh I think it's just reallyneeding to appreciate the number
of variables that are changingand whatever we can do to help
students prepare for that numberof variables.
And when you were talking aboutself-advocacy and asking for
(36:57):
help, Vicki, I just keptthinking, I almost think that
asking for help is a phobia for,you know, 18-year-olds today,
the way that public speaking isfor most people, you know, and
we're all sitting here on apodcast, so I'm assuming we're
pretty comfortable talking, butit's because we've spent a lot
of time practicing talking infront of other people and to
other people.
(37:18):
And the number of opportunitiesa 17 or an 18-year-old has had
today where they actually had toask if ask for help, actively
ask for help, ask a stranger forhelp, even getting to be, you
know, asking, you know, customerservice for help in a store.
I mean, there's so many feweropportunities to practice that.
(37:38):
So we do need to like push thoseopportunities in for students
earlier if we want them to feeleven remotely comfortable doing
that when they're in a collegesystem.
SPEAKER_03 (37:49):
Well, I was just saying, and just when it comes
again to students withdisabilities, very often I hear
stories about students, youknow, sitting down and working
with a specialist or tutor whomakes them do their homework and
who is there at every moment to,you know, to answer questions.
And that is taking away theirability to, you know,
(38:11):
self-motivate and organize andto um figure out how to assess
whether they've understood whatthey're working on and frame a
question and then all the partsabout when is help available,
office hours, okay, my professoris available when I'm in class.
What am I gonna does that meanit's over?
(38:31):
I'm done, I I failed a class.
Or do I email the professor tosay, gee, Professor Nelson,
you're you know, you'reavailable when I'm not, can you
can you help me with this?
And those are all things thatthey'll feel more comfortable
doing if they have practice.
SPEAKER_02 (38:48):
So I mean we we probably should wrap up soon,
but we we said before we startedthat we could keep going and
going.
Um if a parent perhaps has notgone to college themselves or
went to college a long time ago,and college is a little
different now.
(39:10):
Um you know, so I I saw a alittle thing of a professor who
who just did something with hisstudents where he m he gave them
each a question and they had tofind the answer not using their
phones, they had to go to thelibrary to find the answer, and
they didn't know how to doanything.
But if a parent uh doesn't havethat experience, how how would
(39:36):
you suggest they begin to thinkabout what it is that their
student needs to practice?
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
I think what's wonderful is that that parent
does have a cell phone.
And and we we have so many, youknow, aside from like I just
keep thinking of like AnimalHouse and like you know, weird
college movies, but we have somany other types of media these
days to learn about what collegeis actually like.
(40:04):
So certainly, you know, for allparents, um, I know Elizabeth is
also a fan.
I'm a huge fan of The NakedRoommate by Harlan Cohen, and he
has a first-year experience thathe's doing with students.
And I think what's great is umthat Harlan is constantly
interviewing students, anypeople, interviewing people in
education, updating thatresource.
(40:25):
And so um that ends up being agreat resource for parents to
read through, for you know,parents for students to do the
audio version of, to just learnabout like what is college
really like?
What are some of the challengesthat really come up?
Um, for students, if you'reparenting a student with
learning disabilities ordiagnoses, somebody who's going
to need disability services incollege, I always recommend
(40:48):
Elizabeth's book, right?
I think that's seven steps tocollege.
It's just, it's the same thing.
Um, you have done such a nicejob of making sure that it's got
current research, that it hasinformation from many different
um perspectives on disabilitysupport, but also that you've
covered all of the details ofthe process.
(41:10):
I mean, there's a chapter oneverything in your book in terms
of really understanding whatreality is going to be for
students transitioning tocollege with learning
disabilities.
So I think there are those greatbook resources.
There are also, and I guess Ishould add some like caution
tape around this, but there arealso wonderful parent
communities online where parentsare talking about their current
(41:33):
experiences, whether that's youknow, parents of typically
developing or there's lots ofwonderful information that you
can get on what collegerealistically looks like right
now.
It's also, I mean, you canstart.
You know, I don't I don't thinkas a parent, I want necessarily
(41:56):
like eighth graders going oncollege tours.
They could, but we don't want topour the pressure on super
early.
But as a parent, like you couldgo on a college tour and just
get a sense of what college is,you know, like at this point, if
that's not something that um youwere exposed to or that you were
exposed to recently.
You can do all sorts of collegetours virtually online these
(42:16):
days.
So I think it's it's really justum, you know, taking time, not
that any of us have time asparents, but taking a little bit
of time to think about, okay, Iwant to make sure that I
understand what college is likeso that I can then help my child
really understand what collegeis like and where those
stumbling blocks might be.
(42:37):
Um, it is quite different,right?
The electronic systems are quitedifferent.
Uh the, I mean, social life ofyoung people is quite different.
Um, the things that were risks40 years ago on a college campus
are quite different than thethings that are risks right now
on a college campus.
And and there are a lot ofwonderful first-year college
coaches and first-yeartransition kinds of people.
(42:59):
And it's it's wise to at leastgo to some of their workshops
and hear about, you know, whatthey notice are some of the
biggest challenges for studentsbecause there are some really
universal things that arechallenging or complicated about
this transition.
And so I think you can learn alot, you know, just go listening
to a 45-minute podcast or goingto a 60-minute webinar.
(43:19):
And I guess I didn't say this,Vicky, but certainly if
someone's listening to thispodcast, listen to more College
Parent Central podcasts.
SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
I was going to get that in, so thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (43:29):
Oh my gosh, and the you know, decade worth of
wonderful written posts thatVicky has.
We've got a lot of it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:37):
And that really was really, really how we started.
Yes, is just saying I I Iremember when my first child
went off to college and I wasoverwhelmed with trying to make
sense of it all.
And I work in higher education.
So I said, if I don't get it,then there must be other people
who need it.
So yes, thank you.
(43:58):
We have we've just I think thismay be episode 152 or something.
So we've just hit that 150 uhmark in terms of podcast
episodes.
So we got a lot out there.
SPEAKER_01 (44:11):
Well, and something that I loved, Vicky, you know,
we're talking a lot abouttransition to college, but you
had a wonderful episode ofCollege Parent uh Central that
was um the transitioning back tothe second semester.
And I and we don't think aboutthat, we think about how hard
that that first semester is, andthere are all sorts of other
(44:33):
pains about going back after theholidays.
And so I really think again, asa parent, you do not know what
you don't know.
Um as a high school student, youreally have no idea what to
expect from the transition.
And so the fact that you guyshave spent so much time meeting
with different acts.
experts talking about differentyou know aspects of college that
(44:56):
it's just a wonderful resourcefor students and families and so
are you so what what would youuh what would what would you
leave parents with what whatwould be your bottom line if you
could give one overall uh pieceof advice to parents so um I
(45:17):
guess the one piece of advice tothink about is uh that if a
student doesn't feel completelyready to make the college
transition at the end of 12thgrade um that's okay you know
it's okay to take a step in adifferent direction what's
(45:37):
wonderful is gap yearexperiences have become more
normalized and what we know iswhen students take a gap year
they're more successful whenthey end up progressing onto
college after that there aredifferent ways to do college in
terms of starting at communitycollege that's even a really
wonderfully more affordableoption these days because some
(45:59):
states have free communitycollege access and sometimes
community colleges haveagreements with four-year
colleges to transfer.
So I think you know if collegefeels really important in your
student's future and especiallyif it's important to your
student, I just think it'simportant to know that college
isn't done in a one size fitsall way.
(46:21):
There are lots of ways to docollege and if you're worried
because it doesn't seem likeyour child's going to be able to
make the transition to collegein the traditional way that's
totally fine.
SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
That's great advice and more and more students are
doing it in different differentways.
SPEAKER_03 (46:42):
Some are on the five year plan and they just need to
go a little more slowly to thefive or the six year six yeah
well there you go yeah I thinkthe National Center for Edge
Statistics only tracks six andeight year completion rates.
SPEAKER_01 (46:57):
I don't think they even bother with four year four
year completions a little bitless than 50% and six year
completions a little bit lessthan 70% in terms of students
who enroll as first time.
So I I think it's just it's okayif it doesn't look the way that
we think it was supposed to lookthere's lots of ways to do it.
So if people would like to hearmore from you read more of these
(47:21):
wonderful articles or check inhow can they find you so um I do
have a website it's justwww.challentransitions dot com
spelled um ch a l-l-e ntransitions dot com.
(47:46):
I try to put out things that arereally current and important to
students and families there.
And I'm easily available onsocial media, you know, LinkedIn
Facebook Instagram YouTubethey're all basically at Kelly
K-E-L E Y Challen transitions.
And I'm super Googleable to makeup a new word.
(48:09):
I you know if you heard thispodcast and you were driving and
the only three words youremember are Kelly Challenge
transition, I am certain you canfind me through that type of
Google search.
SPEAKER_02 (48:20):
And we will um put all of that in the show notes
and so people can follow there.
Well thank you so much fortaking time to talk to us to
talk to everybody who'slistening um lots we can do to
help our students get ready.
SPEAKER_01 (48:39):
Absolutely thank you so much Vicky for finding me
through my that was a planningbeyond the IEP sub stack that
you ended up reading about theposter so I'm glad you found me
and I really appreciate beinginvited to join you guys.
SPEAKER_02 (48:52):
Thanks again and to everybody thank you for staying
with us to the end and tolistening and we'll see you next
time
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already incollege, this podcast is for
you.
You'll find food for thought andinformation about college and
about navigating that delicatebalance of guidance,
involvement, and knowing when toget out of the way.
(01:24):
Join your hosts as they sharesupport and a celebration of the
amazing experience of having achild in college.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
This is the podcast where wetalk about just about everything
we can think of that has to dowith parenting, a student who's
in high school and thinkingabout college, a student who is
in college, and sometimes astudent who's about to step out
of college.
Um, because it's a big job forus as parents.
(02:00):
My name is Vicki Nelson, and Iam a professor of communication
at a small liberal arts college.
But probably even moreimportant, I am the mother of
three daughters who have allgone to college and have come
out on the other side, and we'veall survived it.
And I am here today um with oneof my co-hosts and with a
(02:25):
special guest, and I'm veryexcited about this.
Um I was I was I stumbled onsomething on the internet a
little while ago, and it wasthis wonderful article about
using post-its to help studentsor help your kids learn about
(02:46):
executive functioning.
Um and it really struck a chordum because I was thinking of two
things.
I was thinking of uh one of mygrandsons who uh has ADHD and is
try is in middle school tryingto uh get a handle on everything
(03:06):
and how he's going to functionincreasingly independently.
Um and then I was also thinkingof the college freshmen that I
teach who need a lot of help tofigure out how to manage on
their own.
So this article just struck achord for me.
And then I was talking withElizabeth, my co-host, whom I'm
(03:27):
going to allow to get a word inedgewise and introduce herself
in a minute.
Um and she said, Oh yes, I knowKelly Challenge who wrote the
article.
We we work together.
So um then it was a done dealthat we had to get Kelly on the
podcast.
So, with that being said, um,I'm going to toss it over to
(03:48):
Elizabeth Hamlet, my co-host,and let her take it from here.
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
Well, thanks, Vicki.
Um Elizabeth Hamlet.
I am a college uh learningdisabilities specialist and
author of Seven Steps toSuccess, a pathway.
I'm sorry, Seven Steps toCollege Success, a pathway for
students with disabilities.
And so I am so delighted to haveour guest here.
And what Vicky has so kindly notmentioned is I've actually been
(04:16):
nagging her about getting Kellyon the podcast.
He's so polite.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
I just didn't connect the dots when I read the
article that this was the sameperson you had been talking
about.
SPEAKER_03 (04:27):
So because Kelly and I connected a few years ago um
through a professionalexperience, but I have since um
been devouring all of herwriting.
She is a really, really smart,thoughtful uh professional who
is helping students with collegetransition and other kinds of
(04:49):
transitions, as she willdiscuss.
Um and executive functioning iscertainly a huge part of what I
help my students with at thecollege level.
Um, so I was just so tickledwhen Vicky emailed me and said,
Hey, I came across this post.
This woman's name seems familiarto me.
(05:09):
So finally we have Kelly here onthe podcast.
So um, with that, I'm gonna letKelly talk a little bit more
about what she does, what atransition specialist is, and um
we'll take it from there.
SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
Sure.
Um, thank you so much, Vicki andElizabeth, for having me here
today.
I'm really excited to be on andbe able to talk with you both.
Um I am Kelly Challenge.
I'm a transition specialist andthe founder of Challen Education
and Transition Services.
And so I have the pleasure ofworking with teenagers and young
adults, um, sort of anywherebetween ages 12 all the way up
(05:46):
to late 20s, which is anexciting period of time to get
to work with young people.
Many of the folks that I workwith have disabilities or
learning differences, and I getto work with them during K-12
education as well as afterwards,with the focus of really helping
them move from high school intocollege, into employment, into
(06:07):
more independent living or otherpost-secondary kinds of paths
based on their own goals.
Um a lot of my focus is planningbeyond the IEP, but certainly
not every student I work withhas been on an IEP or has even
been on a 504 plan.
And I guess when I think abouttransition planning, it's
helping to not just think aboutgraduation.
(06:28):
I think we can sort of focus onend of high school as a finish
line that we're getting to.
And what I try to really helpstudents that I work with to
focus on is readiness for theadult activities that come after
that.
It's setting the goals aroundthe adult activities that come
after that.
Um, I tend to really focus onthree different buckets of
(06:49):
planning.
Um, what are your independentliving types of goals?
And that can also have to dowith how you engage in your
community.
Um, what are your learning ortraining goals for after high
school?
And then what are you thinkingabout for working?
And I talk a lot with studentstoo about um what's the first
job you want to have, right?
Not just what are your long-termgoals around employment, but
what's the very first thing youthink you might want to get paid
(07:10):
for?
Um, what could you see yourselfdoing?
So it's really that living,learning, and working activities
and that focus on preparing forlife beyond high school.
Um, and I will do transitionplanning with obviously students
in K-12 education, but you cantransition plan as an individual
from any point in your life,right?
I mean, we could all sit here asadults who have careers and
(07:32):
think, what do I want to bedoing in my independent life?
Do I want to do any morelearning or training?
You know, are there workactivities I haven't gotten to
take part in yet that wouldreally be goals for me in the
future?
And so those areas of living andlearning and working can be used
to plan from any point in timean individual's at.
Um, so that's me in a nutshell.
(07:55):
Um, and kind of the idea oftransition planning.
And I do conduct transitionassessments and I do
consultation, I do some coachingfor students getting ready for
college, I do some coaching forstudents who are planning to get
out of college.
Um, but really anything that Ican do with students through
that transition planning lens,I'm excited to do.
And I certainly do a lot ofprofessional development and
(08:15):
training and speaking aroundthat too.
SPEAKER_03 (08:18):
And Kelly and I will be doing our first co-presenting
uh gig next month.
So we're very excited.
Um, it's been a lot of funworking with her.
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
And and Kelly, you're you're I think about a
step ahead of me because you'veyou've answered some of what uh
question that I had.
Um, and I think it's reallyfascinating because as you said,
you know, we all go throughthese transitions all the time.
But I think so often we thinkabout a transition um as
(08:50):
something that happens to us.
Uh certainly, you know, we talkto the freshmen.
I teach a lot of freshmen, andand we say, you know, this is a
big transition for you.
And um, but the idea of planningfor transition, of uh feeling as
though you have control overthat transition is is really
(09:11):
very different than just sittingback and saying, this thing is
going to happen.
I wonder how it's going to go.
Um, so it's fascinating the workthat you do.
And I assume you work with thestudents who are going to be
transitioning, but also withparents.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
I do.
I do um I work with parents alot, and I provide a lot of
parent consultation andpreparation and coaching and
sort of especially help umallowing students to set their
own goals and thinking about thesteps to reach those goals.
Um and anytime I'm working withparents, I'm also very honest
(09:54):
with them that my priority isalways going to be the student's
vision for themselves and how wecan get to that, um, how we can
understand uh students' goals.
Students do not always haverealistic goals for themselves,
but I'm sure none of us dideither when we, you know, when
we were teenagers.
And I think whether you're astudent uh who has disabilities
(10:16):
or not, um, we need to create asense of agency for students,
that it's okay to set a goal,try something, have that work or
not work, um, but really beempowered to be in charge.
And that's that's one of thebiggest pieces of transition
planning for students is thatsense of agency, is that sense
of control, um, and is helpingthe adults in the student's life
(10:40):
to relinquish that control alittle bit.
Um, so that's a big piece of theparent work.
SPEAKER_03 (10:46):
Yeah.
So as a college learningdisability specialist, that is,
you know, the specificpopulation that I work with.
And so a lot of who Kelly workswith are students with
disabilities.
And, you know, what I what wesee in the research um is that
and and and anecdotally in mycommunity of professionals
(11:08):
where, you know, othercolleagues are writing in about
the issues with students, youknow, some of what we're seeing
is they are coming to college beaccustomed to a lot of adult
support and direction, um, andnot a lot of agency, as you
said, and independence.
(11:28):
Um, and so, you know, part ofwhat Kelly and I have been
talking about too is you know,here's what I'm saying, here's
what we're seeing on the collegeend, what what could be
happening at the high school,you know, end of this this
transition that would help.
And I imagine that sometimesparents see students doing very
(11:51):
well, you know, certainlyacademically, perhaps, you know,
just uh in general, um executivefunction-wise, seemingly, like
things are pulled togetherbecause of the amounts of
sometimes, you know, invisiblesupport that they're getting,
um, structure in place.
And when you talk to them abouttrying to pull back some of
(12:14):
those supports, which I think isreally important in truly
assessing whether this studenthas the skills needed wherever
they're going after high school,but that there's resistance,
understandably, on parents'part, because they see the
student doing well.
And in some cases, they'vegotten to that place from uh
from where the students were notdoing well.
(12:36):
And so the idea of taking awaysupports is terrifying.
So, how do you talk to them alittle bit about their concerns
that their student might, youknow, failure can mean a lot of
different things and take a lotof different shapes, but how do
you talk to them about it?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
I I think there is so much nuance um in this topic.
Uh, we could probably spend theentire time together talking
about this.
I mean, I I think one of thefirst places to come from with
anyone you're working with,right?
But certainly with parents, isvalidating that this is
stressful, this is scary.
(13:11):
And I think what's so hard abouthigh school engagement when
you're preparing for college isthere are some stakes here,
right?
Um, when a student is in highschool and we're asking parents
to start to scale back support,or asking parents to ask
teachers and other people tostart to scale back support,
(13:33):
there is a risk that studentswill struggle, right?
There is a risk that a studentmay bomb a test, or, you know,
if they're working on getting upin the morning, be late to
school.
There and there are risks aboutthings that could affect the
student's record, which thendoes affect their applications.
And that is something thatpeople are quite worried about.
(13:54):
Um, what I try to talk about alittle bit is that there are
even bigger risks to not scalingback and having the student head
off to college or head off toother adult activities without
having had the opportunity,right?
We talk a lot about where wouldwhere would you prefer a student
(14:18):
to fail, right?
Or a student to struggle.
And I think many parents wouldmuch prefer to be able to be
there, be with their student, beable to support them, be able to
reassure them.
Um, you know, if a student goesthrough some of that struggling
at home, as opposed to in thedorm, or as opposed to uh on the
(14:39):
other side of the country.
Um, so I think it's just I'm I'ma large believer in helping
people to understand reality andwhat's realistic and sort of
playing out different scenariosin terms of what happens if we
don't scale back support now.
And I think as as you and I talkabout often, there's also just
(15:01):
sometimes misunderstandingsabout what the future will look
like and can look like in termsof levels of support.
So there are certainly thoseconversations to have.
But um, I think a different, youknow, a piece of this strategy
also is talking about what arethe risks that you feel like you
could let your child take,right?
(15:22):
What are the small steps thatyou might be willing to let them
take?
You know, is it emailing ateacher when they've missed an
assignment or when they need toget work before they're going to
miss school for a medicalappointment, right?
Is it letting them managescheduling one of their tutoring
sessions or one of theirappointments on their own?
(15:44):
Is it, you know, are therethings that they could allow the
student to miss or forgetcomfortably, right?
Maybe it's not a midterm exam,but maybe it is a homework
assignment, or maybe there's aclass where things are a little
bit lower stakes that they feellike they could allow a student
to start taking some moreautonomy in.
(16:05):
So I'm always looking for what'spossible.
You know, it's sort of whenwe're resistant to change, I'm
always looking for, well, whereis there wiggle room here?
Where is there something youcould be comfortable with as a
parent?
Um, you know, and where's yourstudent motivated so they might
actually be more successful withless support and really sort of
trying to find um the easiestpoint of access and uh the
(16:28):
easiest point for reducing someof those supports.
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
You know, what strikes me as you're describing
all of that is also um not onlyletting it letting that failure,
if we call it that, happen whileparents are there to support it,
but once students go away toschool, it may be happening and
(16:52):
parents don't know about it.
I mean, so many of the studentsthat I see that have trouble and
and parents are clueless.
So getting that sort of heads upum while they're home is even
more important.
SPEAKER_03 (17:08):
Well, I was gonna say, if I might, and and Vicky,
you and I, our most recent umpodcast together was about the
vocabulary of the college uhdisability services environment
specifically and the changesthere.
And so, you know, part of thatis understanding um that they're
(17:29):
not gonna have the access, thatthe case managers do very
different things.
And so, you know, as Kellyalluded to, they are expecting
sometimes this level ofattention to their student by
adults, you know, at thecollege, by staff and faculty,
that just isn't going to bethere.
And so was when Kelly wastalking about, you know, they
(17:53):
they have to schedule one oftheir learning um specialists,
understanding that, you know,college staff really isn't
responsible, for instance, forchasing students.
So when a student, the way thatI get students where I work is
an email goes out.
Some students don't read theiremails, they never see it.
(18:13):
Um, we do not send a follow-upemail from my office.
Um, once they respond to me, Igo back to them and say, Here
are my available times.
Sometimes that's where the thecommunication trail ends.
Um, you know, or I hear fromthem two weeks later and they
say, Hey, you know, do you havesomething tomorrow?
And I have to say, no, I'malready booked.
(18:33):
So the things that families areaccustomed to are not things
that that we necessarilyprovide.
And so I think talking to themabout the exceptions that are
being made, the flexibility thattheir students are getting,
because I think sometimes thatstuff is invisible.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Absolutely.
And um I have um, you know,different checklists that I like
to use.
Uh Elizabeth knows I sort ofhave one that I've put together
over the years.
It's just 31 must have collegereadiness skills.
But there are lots of checklistson the internet.
And it's um, I'm a big believerin in data.
(19:13):
And what's interesting is if aparent and a student fill out
something like that together,sometimes, you know, it has the
skills that we know areimportant for college success.
And sometimes when they'refilling those types of things
out, they'll say, Oh, well, hewon't need to do that in
college.
Right.
And so it opens the door.
Um, sometimes that alone helpsparents to understand what's
(19:36):
going to be expected.
And then they have an aha momentin terms of what number of
skills or what number ofresponsibilities a student needs
to be learning and building.
Um, but sometimes it's reallythere's a sense of disbelief
there.
And then the work is around uhlearning more about what's
realistic in college, um, andyou get a sense of where to
(19:57):
focus in, um, which is just soimportant.
I there's a there's a certainamount of psychoeducation that's
part of this transition process,right?
It's sort of learning about therealities of college, learning
the vocabulary of college.
Um and, you know, you can't beself-aware, you can't sort of
know what to expect if you don'tknow what the realities are of
(20:20):
college.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
When you have parents who say, well, you know,
oh, it doesn't matter that thecollege won't provide a learning
specialist or an executivefunctioning coach or somebody to
meet with my kid, you know,three times a week.
And but we can provide it, orI'll be that support for my
student.
Um, you know, how do you talk tothem?
(20:43):
And also I'm curious aboutwhether you get a gauge of the
students' response to that.
You know, how do where where arestudents in all of this as their
parents are, you know, feelingunderstandably?
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
I I think students are all over the place in that,
you know, some students would bedelightfully happy to have the
same exact level of support thatthey have in high school for
their entire adult lives.
I'd be happy to have that levelof support as an adult, right?
I mean, I'd be happy to havesomebody else hand me a schedule
for the day, tell me what I'mcooking for dinner, right?
(21:20):
So I think some students are,you know, are uh would be happy
to have that.
I I think the reality is thereis a lot that you can outsource.
There is a lot that you couldprivately pay for when making
this transition to college, um,but there's a lot that you
(21:41):
cannot.
And so, you know, it's it'srunning through that exercise
again of okay, if you were goingto uh pay for a support program
as part of college, or if you'regonna pay for private executive
function coach, you know, whatare the limits on what that
person can do and what thestudent still has to do?
(22:01):
I mean, there are expectationsthat colleges have, right,
systemically in terms of whatstudents will be responsible for
themselves.
There are ethics codes in termsof what students need to
actually do on their own.
Uh, so again, it goes to some ofthat, you know, information.
I mean, I think externalsupports can help, but they
(22:24):
can't replace internal skill,right?
Um, you can't you can'toutsource ownership over the
college process.
And it's not successful to dothat because a student who
requires a really high amountof, you know, a student who's
going to require tutoring andacademic coaching and you know,
and is going to be spending asignificant number of hours per
(22:47):
day using supports so that theycan manage the academics of
college.
Has an enormous amount of workahead of them, right?
And is going to need an enormousamount of grit to get through
that.
And there are students I workwith who are very much up for
that.
And it's incredible, right?
(23:08):
And we talk about the that, youknow, those students actually
being able to manage, you know,the college experience four or
five classes at a time with allof that support, they will miss
some of the social life ofcollege.
They may miss some of theimportant networking that would
be helpful for employment later.
(23:28):
Um, but they're up for it.
And so as long as everyone's onthe same page about the amount
of work it's gonna take and theamount of resources, you know,
financial, emotional, timeresources that it will take,
that's something that could bepart of a plan for a student.
Um, but students and parentsalso need to understand what a
(23:48):
student's giving up, you know.
Um, and if a parent says they'regonna do it themselves, I think
the risk there as opposed to apaid provider who understands
the college system is that oftenparents don't understand the
college system, don'tunderstand, you know, what would
I need my student to actuallygive me access to to make sure
(24:09):
they were turning in their work,you know, to make sure they were
attending their classes.
Um so I think it's a it's a bigrisk when a parent thinks
they're gonna be the support forthe transition, uh, if they're
trying to keep that in place.
Uh it's an enormous cost ifthey're expecting other people
to do it.
I mean, I think there's always abenefit to reducing support to
(24:33):
whatever extent is possible inhigh school and increasing
autonomy to whatever extent ispossible in high school.
And that does look different fordifferent students.
And then there are all differentkinds of colleges that students
can attend.
Um, there are some things thatcolleges just absolutely cannot
do, but there there isflexibility um from one college
to another in terms of um howsmall and how supportive and how
(24:57):
personal the relationships areand things like that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
You know, it really makes me wonder if a student
needs that high level of all ofthese sports in college, what
happens to them after college?
What you know are parents goingto continue to hire coaches who
are going to be able to go towork with the with the student?
And I I mean it just at somepoint it it seems they have to
(25:24):
launch.
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
Yes, and at some point there, I mean, there has
to be internal motivation there.
It it's also there's this pieceof when we overfunction and
overhelp students, we'reimplicitly sending a bit of a
message that we don't believethey can do it, or that we don't
(25:46):
believe they, you know, have theand and there's a difference
between not having learned to dosomething yet, or not having a
good executive function systemfor being able to do something
consistently yet, and and justreally not being capable, right?
And I think uh I think sometimesit's not recognized that adults
are sending that message, um, orthat a student is internalizing
(26:09):
that message, even if that's notwhat's intending to be sent.
And that that's a really highrisk, then, Vicky, for you know,
students thinking they need,right?
I I can't possibly do a jobunless I have a coach, you know,
five hours a week who's gonnaprocess with me at the end of
the day or go to the job sitewith me.
And we really uh I thinkstudents are capable of a lot
more, um, but haven't had theopportunities to plan and
(26:33):
problem solve and initiate andstructure for themselves yet.
SPEAKER_03 (26:38):
And Kelly, I would assume that you also interact
with like whatever it's calledin everybody's state, the
Department of Vocational Rehab,um, which for students, and it
varies from state to state, maybe eligible for you know, from
some supports from DVR, umeither for college or to go into
(26:58):
a job site, but I think um it'snot as many students as perhaps
parents would like to seereceiving support.
And I I'm so glad that you saidthat about you know students'
sense of self-efficacy too andthe messages that they're
internalizing, because um right,un until they've been given a
(27:19):
chance to try something, wedon't know what they're capable
of doing.
And, you know, it doesn't meanthat you just, you know, shove
them off the ledge and and hopethat they fly, but starting to
model for your students whatyou're doing, you know, being
explicit in your everyday lifewith them about what you are
doing, how you are supportingthem, you know, eventually,
(27:41):
turning over control and and andmastery of this stuff to them
and understanding and beingpatient with the fact that it
won't always work out, as you'vesaid.
You know, sometimes they'regonna miss an appointment.
I miss appointments and I'm areally good executive
functioner.
Um, but that is life.
And also, so that resiliencepiece, too.
You know, this idea that theycan never ever experience any
(28:05):
kind of even, you know, tiny,tiny failure.
Um, I think doesn't allow themthe opportunity to see that
they'll they'll make it through,it will be a bummer.
And you know, they might have toapologize, they you know, they
might have to inconveniencethemselves for to to make
something up, but that they cando it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Yeah, but I think that competence builds
confidence.
And uh, when they finally seethat they can do the things that
others have been doing for them,you know, to your point, yes,
some of them would be delightedto always have somebody around,
but I I do worry about thatanxiety that some of them might
go to college with, that theyhave never been able to be
(28:46):
successful without a whole lotof adult help.
SPEAKER_01 (28:50):
I think we have, I mean, I I know, right?
We know now through researchthat this is more of a
complication for many teenagersis having that anxiety and that
worry that they can't do thingson their own and having had
those fewer problem-solvingopportunities and being a little
(29:10):
bit more um reliant on parentsin particular.
Um, it's it's a generation thatis much more connected with
their parents, and there arewonderful positives to that.
But college is absolutely asystem that expects students to
be somewhat individuated fromtheir parents.
Um and as we were talking aboutbefore, a little bit, I mean,
(29:33):
there are certain things you cando for a college student and
there are certain things youcannot.
You know, I cannot register formy child with disability support
services.
unknown (29:43):
Correct.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Right?
Um, I can't show up to thetutoring session for them.
So so there are just certainthings that um you you can't pay
for, you can't do for.
Um, and we want students to knowthey can do it and they can miss
an appointment, and that's okay.
They can reschedule it, youknow, not always as quickly as
they want to.
(30:04):
Um, but really um wantingstudents to know that they have
those abilities and that theyhave some problem-solving
systems on their own.
Uh, I had a parent I was workingwith not that long ago who
really wanted to know like whichlife skills are the very most
important life skills to startwith.
And my answer was that reallyit's the what do you do when you
(30:27):
don't know the life skill skill?
You know, is it that the studentknows that they are comfortable
looking things up on YouTubewhen they need to learn how to
problem solve something new?
You know, is it that they'recomfortable using an AI chat bot
to help them, you know, create atask analysis to be able to do a
task?
You know, what what is it that astudent uh can do when they hit
(30:50):
the one skill that they didn'tlearn how to do?
Whether that's writing a check,you know, which we do so
infrequently that we all sort offorget how to do it at this
addressing an envelope.
But it happens sometimes.
So uh so I think there are somany skills that are important
to learn because they make youfeel that confidence and
competence as you're makingtransitions.
(31:11):
And then knowing that you havesome you know, some ability to
problem solve when you hit a newskill, because we all do in
life, is also really criticalfor young people.
So um yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
That skill of asking questions and and asking for
help.
Uh so many students, uh allkinds of students, you know,
executive function or not, justdon't ask for help.
And they and they it seems asthough they have this feeling
that being independent means youhave to do everything yourself
(31:47):
and you can't rely or or askother people.
Um so so you're talking you knowa lot about the you know the the
things that they can't do andand and how to help them.
What are are are are there acouple of things that you find
many students struggle with?
What are the kinds of thingsthat really might they might
(32:11):
encounter as a roadblock?
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
I I mean I certainly think waking up on their own, as
basic as that sounds, is issomething that very few students
really do nowadays.
Some of my students, it's likethey know how to set the alarm,
but then there's still a parentprompt somewhere in that routine
before they're making it out thedoor.
And I again I understand thatoften, you know, high school
(32:38):
starts at hours that are not,you know, not really humanly
appreciative of whereadolescents are and how much
sleep they need.
But it's we have an episode withLisa about uh teens and sleep,
don't we?
Yeah, but it but that's animportant skill.
I mean, laundry is a funny onethat students just haven't
always always done.
(33:00):
And um I think I had heard adifferent, I don't know if it
was something I read on theinternet or a different episode
that was talking about a studentwho hadn't learned to change
their bed sheets.
And so the parent was planningto allow them to just put six
sets of bed sheets on their bed,like one on top of another, take
(33:20):
one set of sheets off per week,and then in six weeks the parent
would come up and do the laundryand you know, rechange the
other.
Well, and it's interesting, Ithink you can see it from either
perspective, and that's what'samazing, right?
You could say that's extreme,like why can't this kid just
learn this skill?
Or you could say, is that thehill you know that you want to
(33:42):
die on?
Is that and I I think there's apicking and choosing for each
student of which skills are moreimportant.
I tend to think if a student'sgoing to be far away from home,
laundry is a really importantskill, and students seem to not
be getting as much exposure tothat.
Medication management is a bigone.
If you happen to be somebody whoneeds medication, especially for
(34:02):
attention or mood or otherthings, making sure that
students really, and it's notjust can I take my medications
every day, but do I know what todo when it needs refilling?
Um, and some of that could bedone automatically, but
sometimes it's not a perfectsystem.
So uh really students managingthat can be critical.
SPEAKER_03 (34:21):
But you know, I that sheet example is such a good one
because, first of all, I mean,we don't know anything about the
family.
Did the family try to teach thestudent how, you know,
explicitly how to change theirsheets?
And if not, you know, I stillevery once in a while look on
YouTube for a better ironingstrategy.
And I realize college studentsare not ironing, but in other
(34:42):
words, that is a strategy, likehere are the number of sheets
we're gonna provide you with.
We think it's a good idea foryou to wash them regularly, and
like that that seeking out ofhow that it's self-advocacy,
right?
I'm struggling with this.
Maybe I could get on theinternet and find somebody to
help me too.
Because what I also think aboutis like maybe the roommate sees
(35:04):
them do that, and maybe there'sa sense of embarrassment by the
student with the successivesheets that they don't they
haven't learned to do.
Now, again, I don't assumeanything, but you think we're
we're leaving out that piece ofthe confidence and you know,
just even the socialacceptability of not being able
to do certain things thatperhaps they might have if
(35:27):
they'd had a chance to try andhad some instruction.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Well, and I realize I focused on life skills because
I think those are sometimesforgotten, but there are
certainly, you know, academicthings that students are just
not used to managing some of thedeadlines or long-term
assignments in the way that youneed to in college.
Um volume of work.
I mean, there are surprisesbecause the systems are quite
(35:53):
different.
And I think when you think abouttransitioning to college, you're
making a lot of learning and alot of living changes all at the
same time.
So anything that can be done tofront load being used to, you
know, to more in in either oneof those buckets is really
helpful in terms of managingthat transition.
(36:14):
Um, and there the social piecethat you're mentioning, right?
It's a college is a weird socialsystem.
It's you know, living with abunch of adolescents is such a
unique experience.
Um, and there are lots of thingsthat can come up.
And certainly if you're someonewho's not comfortable advocating
(36:35):
or asking for help, right?
There are so many um risks orjust discomforts that can come
along with that.
So uh I think it's just reallyneeding to appreciate the number
of variables that are changingand whatever we can do to help
students prepare for that numberof variables.
And when you were talking aboutself-advocacy and asking for
(36:57):
help, Vicki, I just keptthinking, I almost think that
asking for help is a phobia for,you know, 18-year-olds today,
the way that public speaking isfor most people, you know, and
we're all sitting here on apodcast, so I'm assuming we're
pretty comfortable talking, butit's because we've spent a lot
of time practicing talking infront of other people and to
other people.
(37:18):
And the number of opportunitiesa 17 or an 18-year-old has had
today where they actually had toask if ask for help, actively
ask for help, ask a stranger forhelp, even getting to be, you
know, asking, you know, customerservice for help in a store.
I mean, there's so many feweropportunities to practice that.
(37:38):
So we do need to like push thoseopportunities in for students
earlier if we want them to feeleven remotely comfortable doing
that when they're in a collegesystem.
SPEAKER_03 (37:49):
Well, I was just saying, and just when it comes
again to students withdisabilities, very often I hear
stories about students, youknow, sitting down and working
with a specialist or tutor whomakes them do their homework and
who is there at every moment to,you know, to answer questions.
And that is taking away theirability to, you know,
(38:11):
self-motivate and organize andto um figure out how to assess
whether they've understood whatthey're working on and frame a
question and then all the partsabout when is help available,
office hours, okay, my professoris available when I'm in class.
What am I gonna does that meanit's over?
(38:31):
I'm done, I I failed a class.
Or do I email the professor tosay, gee, Professor Nelson,
you're you know, you'reavailable when I'm not, can you
can you help me with this?
And those are all things thatthey'll feel more comfortable
doing if they have practice.
SPEAKER_02 (38:48):
So I mean we we probably should wrap up soon,
but we we said before we startedthat we could keep going and
going.
Um if a parent perhaps has notgone to college themselves or
went to college a long time ago,and college is a little
different now.
(39:10):
Um you know, so I I saw a alittle thing of a professor who
who just did something with hisstudents where he m he gave them
each a question and they had tofind the answer not using their
phones, they had to go to thelibrary to find the answer, and
they didn't know how to doanything.
But if a parent uh doesn't havethat experience, how how would
(39:36):
you suggest they begin to thinkabout what it is that their
student needs to practice?
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
I think what's wonderful is that that parent
does have a cell phone.
And and we we have so many, youknow, aside from like I just
keep thinking of like AnimalHouse and like you know, weird
college movies, but we have somany other types of media these
days to learn about what collegeis actually like.
(40:04):
So certainly, you know, for allparents, um, I know Elizabeth is
also a fan.
I'm a huge fan of The NakedRoommate by Harlan Cohen, and he
has a first-year experience thathe's doing with students.
And I think what's great is umthat Harlan is constantly
interviewing students, anypeople, interviewing people in
education, updating thatresource.
(40:25):
And so um that ends up being agreat resource for parents to
read through, for you know,parents for students to do the
audio version of, to just learnabout like what is college
really like?
What are some of the challengesthat really come up?
Um, for students, if you'reparenting a student with
learning disabilities ordiagnoses, somebody who's going
to need disability services incollege, I always recommend
(40:48):
Elizabeth's book, right?
I think that's seven steps tocollege.
It's just, it's the same thing.
Um, you have done such a nicejob of making sure that it's got
current research, that it hasinformation from many different
um perspectives on disabilitysupport, but also that you've
covered all of the details ofthe process.
(41:10):
I mean, there's a chapter oneverything in your book in terms
of really understanding whatreality is going to be for
students transitioning tocollege with learning
disabilities.
So I think there are those greatbook resources.
There are also, and I guess Ishould add some like caution
tape around this, but there arealso wonderful parent
communities online where parentsare talking about their current
(41:33):
experiences, whether that's youknow, parents of typically
developing or there's lots ofwonderful information that you
can get on what collegerealistically looks like right
now.
It's also, I mean, you canstart.
You know, I don't I don't thinkas a parent, I want necessarily
(41:56):
like eighth graders going oncollege tours.
They could, but we don't want topour the pressure on super
early.
But as a parent, like you couldgo on a college tour and just
get a sense of what college is,you know, like at this point, if
that's not something that um youwere exposed to or that you were
exposed to recently.
You can do all sorts of collegetours virtually online these
(42:16):
days.
So I think it's it's really justum, you know, taking time, not
that any of us have time asparents, but taking a little bit
of time to think about, okay, Iwant to make sure that I
understand what college is likeso that I can then help my child
really understand what collegeis like and where those
stumbling blocks might be.
(42:37):
Um, it is quite different,right?
The electronic systems are quitedifferent.
Uh the, I mean, social life ofyoung people is quite different.
Um, the things that were risks40 years ago on a college campus
are quite different than thethings that are risks right now
on a college campus.
And and there are a lot ofwonderful first-year college
coaches and first-yeartransition kinds of people.
(42:59):
And it's it's wise to at leastgo to some of their workshops
and hear about, you know, whatthey notice are some of the
biggest challenges for studentsbecause there are some really
universal things that arechallenging or complicated about
this transition.
And so I think you can learn alot, you know, just go listening
to a 45-minute podcast or goingto a 60-minute webinar.
(43:19):
And I guess I didn't say this,Vicky, but certainly if
someone's listening to thispodcast, listen to more College
Parent Central podcasts.
SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
I was going to get that in, so thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (43:29):
Oh my gosh, and the you know, decade worth of
wonderful written posts thatVicky has.
We've got a lot of it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:37):
And that really was really, really how we started.
Yes, is just saying I I Iremember when my first child
went off to college and I wasoverwhelmed with trying to make
sense of it all.
And I work in higher education.
So I said, if I don't get it,then there must be other people
who need it.
So yes, thank you.
(43:58):
We have we've just I think thismay be episode 152 or something.
So we've just hit that 150 uhmark in terms of podcast
episodes.
So we got a lot out there.
SPEAKER_01 (44:11):
Well, and something that I loved, Vicky, you know,
we're talking a lot abouttransition to college, but you
had a wonderful episode ofCollege Parent uh Central that
was um the transitioning back tothe second semester.
And I and we don't think aboutthat, we think about how hard
that that first semester is, andthere are all sorts of other
(44:33):
pains about going back after theholidays.
And so I really think again, asa parent, you do not know what
you don't know.
Um as a high school student, youreally have no idea what to
expect from the transition.
And so the fact that you guyshave spent so much time meeting
with different acts.
experts talking about differentyou know aspects of college that
(44:56):
it's just a wonderful resourcefor students and families and so
are you so what what would youuh what would what would you
leave parents with what whatwould be your bottom line if you
could give one overall uh pieceof advice to parents so um I
(45:17):
guess the one piece of advice tothink about is uh that if a
student doesn't feel completelyready to make the college
transition at the end of 12thgrade um that's okay you know
it's okay to take a step in adifferent direction what's
(45:37):
wonderful is gap yearexperiences have become more
normalized and what we know iswhen students take a gap year
they're more successful whenthey end up progressing onto
college after that there aredifferent ways to do college in
terms of starting at communitycollege that's even a really
wonderfully more affordableoption these days because some
(45:59):
states have free communitycollege access and sometimes
community colleges haveagreements with four-year
colleges to transfer.
So I think you know if collegefeels really important in your
student's future and especiallyif it's important to your
student, I just think it'simportant to know that college
isn't done in a one size fitsall way.
(46:21):
There are lots of ways to docollege and if you're worried
because it doesn't seem likeyour child's going to be able to
make the transition to collegein the traditional way that's
totally fine.
SPEAKER_02 (46:35):
That's great advice and more and more students are
doing it in different differentways.
SPEAKER_03 (46:42):
Some are on the five year plan and they just need to
go a little more slowly to thefive or the six year six yeah
well there you go yeah I thinkthe National Center for Edge
Statistics only tracks six andeight year completion rates.
SPEAKER_01 (46:57):
I don't think they even bother with four year four
year completions a little bitless than 50% and six year
completions a little bit lessthan 70% in terms of students
who enroll as first time.
So I I think it's just it's okayif it doesn't look the way that
we think it was supposed to lookthere's lots of ways to do it.
So if people would like to hearmore from you read more of these
(47:21):
wonderful articles or check inhow can they find you so um I do
have a website it's justwww.challentransitions dot com
spelled um ch a l-l-e ntransitions dot com.
(47:46):
I try to put out things that arereally current and important to
students and families there.
And I'm easily available onsocial media, you know, LinkedIn
Facebook Instagram YouTubethey're all basically at Kelly
K-E-L E Y Challen transitions.
And I'm super Googleable to makeup a new word.
(48:09):
I you know if you heard thispodcast and you were driving and
the only three words youremember are Kelly Challenge
transition, I am certain you canfind me through that type of
Google search.
SPEAKER_02 (48:20):
And we will um put all of that in the show notes
and so people can follow there.
Well thank you so much fortaking time to talk to us to
talk to everybody who'slistening um lots we can do to
help our students get ready.
SPEAKER_01 (48:39):
Absolutely thank you so much Vicky for finding me
through my that was a planningbeyond the IEP sub stack that
you ended up reading about theposter so I'm glad you found me
and I really appreciate beinginvited to join you guys.
SPEAKER_02 (48:52):
Thanks again and to everybody thank you for staying
with us to the end and tolistening and we'll see you next
time
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.