April 15, 2026 • 50 mins
In this episode, Vicki and Lynn sit down with Dr. Eric Endlich—clinical psychologist, author, and founder of Top College Consultants—to map a smarter path to college for neurodivergent and disabled students – and really, for everyone else, too. From decoding what colleges are legally required to provide to spotting truly comprehensive support programs, we break down how to verify services, assess campus culture, and avoid costly surprises. Dr. Endlich shares practical strategies to evaluate learning support, autism programs, executive function coaching, and peer mentoring, and why the “feel” of a campus—belonging, friendship, acceptance—matters as much as majors and location.
Thank you for listening!
- Much more information for college parents can be found on our website, College Parent Central
- Find us on Twitter at @CollParCentral
- Find us on Bluesky at @CollParCentral.bsky.social
- Sign up for our newsletter for ongoing information
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already incollege, this podcast is for
you.
You'll find food for thought andinformation about college and
about navigating that delicatebalance of guidance,
involvement, and knowing when toget out of the way.
(01:24):
Join your hosts, Vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration of theamazing experience of having a
child in college.
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
This is the place where we talkabout all things connected to
parenting our kids, ourstudents, as they go to college,
as they apply, as they get in,and as they get out.
My name is Lynn Abrahams, and Iam a learning disability
(02:01):
specialist.
I've been working with collegestudents for many, many years
and their families.
But I'm also a parent, a mom oftwo sons who have all gone
through college and aroundcollege and in and out.
And I'm allowed to tell thestory.
(02:32):
Yes, most of the time whenyou're here, I'm here.
SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
When I'm here, you're here.
So uh no surprise.
I'm Vicki Nelson.
I am a college professor ofcommunication at a small liberal
arts college.
I've also served a few years asa director of academic advising.
And so I see students every day.
I see what works, I see whatdoesn't work.
(02:56):
Um I learn from them andhopefully they learn from me.
Um but the like Lynn, my secondqualification is I have three
daughters.
Lynn has the boys and I have thegirls, uh, who have all gone on
to college and who are all outof college and have moved on.
So um I learned by fire, uh,even though I teach in a
(03:19):
college, it was very differentwhen I was a parent.
So we bring we both bring bothperspectives to that.
And we are here with a veryspecial guest, and I'm going to
let Lynn introduce him.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So our special guest is Dr.
Eric Enlik, and he is a clinicalpsychologist, a writer,
presenter, researcher, who's thefounder of Top College
Consultants, an organizationdedicated to helping students
worldwide successfully apply tocollege and transition to
(03:52):
college and graduate school.
In 2021, Exceptional Needs Todaymagazine honored Dr.
Endlick as a top contributor forhis article, Seven Things
Students with DisabilitiesShould Do When Starting College.
He's a co-author of the 2021book, Older Autistic Adults, in
(04:14):
their own words, The LostGeneration.
Dr.
Enlik has served as a primaryresearcher and co-investigator
in several projects from theU.S.
Department of Education,National Science Foundation,
Institute of Education.
And he's also taught at TuftsUniversity, Suffolk University,
(04:35):
Boston College, and UMassBoston.
And I've been told by others inthe field he's the best in the
field.
So welcome.
Welcome, Eric.
We're thrilled to have you.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
Thanks, Lynn.
It's great to be here with youand Vicki.
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
So we're going to start out with just asking, you
know, we like to start by askingpeople how they came into this
line of work.
Um, you know, so tell us alittle bit about your personal
story and how you got here.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Sure.
It's a combination of thepersonal and the professional.
As you said, I'm a clinicalpsychologist.
I worked in mental healthsettings for many years, um,
which is very fulfilling.
And I started seeing, I alwaysloved working with teens, but I
saw some who went off to collegeand did not thrive there and did
(05:25):
not stay in.
And I thought, you know, there'sgot to be a better way.
There's got to be a way toensure that if and when they
they decide to go to college,they're they're going to be
successful.
I think of it as kind of likethat uh saying they they say
with um, you know, woodworking,measure twice, cut once.
If you can't kind of get itright the first time, maybe
(05:45):
you'll stay in and not have tocome back with your tail between
your legs and feel like afailure.
You know, it's it's expensivefinancially and yeah um and
emotionally.
So, you know, that that was apiece of it.
Um my own two adult children areneurodivergent.
Uh, I discovered years into theprocess that I'm neurodivergent
(06:09):
too.
And so when I discoverededucational consulting and
realized I could sort of pulltogether all of my interests in
neurodivergence, in counselingskills, working with teens, um,
you know, love of highereducation.
Uh, it was just a natural fit.
So I kind of switched over tofound top college consultants,
(06:32):
and now we work with studentsaround the country, primarily
students with learningdifferences or emotional
challenges to, as you said,successfully apply to and
transition to college.
SPEAKER_03 (06:43):
You know, you have uh a very unique combination of
being a consultant and and doingthe work you do there, but
you're also a psychologist.
So you you bring together, youknow, some some really special
skills.
Um and I I'd like to hear alittle more about that, but also
(07:04):
um, we had a conversation withyou on the podcast, um, and
we've determined it was fiveyears ago.
Um, so that's been a while.
Um, we were in the middle ofCOVID at the time.
Um, but I'm curious also howyour work has changed over the
years.
Not just not just these pastfive years, although that's you
(07:25):
know, things are different now.
But have you uh how has yourwork evolved?
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Yeah, well, let me tackle you.
You were asking, I always askthese double questions.
SPEAKER_03 (07:36):
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
Double double barreled questions, my my
dissertation advisor used tocall them.
Um, yeah, so to talk about beinga psychologist first, um,
everyone, so being aneducational consultant, it's a
it's a wonderful profession.
Uh people are so supportive.
We're all dedicated to helpingchild students succeed, um,
(07:58):
equity in education.
And um, we're really supportiveof each other.
And when I and and we've allcome from different fields.
So, you know, I know educationalconsultants who are lawyers,
doctors, engineers, computerscientists, you name it, people
who've been in the entertainmentbusiness.
Uh, but again, we share thatpassion for helping students
(08:20):
succeed.
I wasn't really sure coming inas a psychologist with a mental
health background how that wouldplay out being a consultant.
It turns out it's been extremelyhelpful.
Uh, one of the areas, first ofall, as you can imagine, these
days families are reallystressed out about the college
application process.
And people have told methroughout my career that I have
(08:40):
a calming presence.
So I've maybe maybe it's justthat I don't have much affect,
but what whatever it is, um, itseems like that helps students
kind of get through this processand keep them emotionally
tethered as they go through theups and downs of high school and
applying to college.
But especially when they'reworking on their essays, there's
(09:03):
a lot of self-reflection thatgoes into the college admissions
essays.
They're very different from whatstudents are used to writing in
high school or in college ifthey're applying to a grad
school.
And so students often get kindof thrown off by that.
But having, you know, been alistening professional for a
long time and helping peoplekind of self-reflect, it really
(09:26):
comes very naturally to me.
Plus, um, I'm a lifelong writerand editor on top of that.
So I love helping helping folkswith the writing process.
So that was your first question.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Oh, oh, right.
And then we all need thatcalming influence these days.
So that's we certainly hearstudents have so much anxiety.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Yeah, I mean, you know, especially with the
pandemic, anxiety justskyrocketed.
I'm sure you see that in thecollege setting too.
Um, so and then you also askeduh how my work has changed.
Um, you know, we've we've reallydoubled down on serving students
with disabilities.
Uh sometimes there's studentswith other kinds of
(10:10):
disabilities, um, which has beenreally fulfilling as well.
We see so many of our studentsstruggle with executive
functioning.
Um, my team has grown, you know.
Uh so again, I have a nationwideteam of consultants working with
students around the country.
Some of the folks on my teamalso do executive function
(10:32):
coaching or academic coaching.
So that's really helpful.
And we've kind of uh specializedor carved out our niches a bit.
One of the folks on my team whohappens to be in Massachusetts
specializes in transfer studentswho are transferring from one
college to another.
Someone else on my team does umwork with recruited athletes.
(10:53):
So it's been great to be able toserve a diversity of students.
And um Yeah, those are some ofthe key things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
Well, I have one question for you.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (11:07):
She's gonna be easy on you.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Um I'm curious to know.
Um, you know, I've worked withstudents with with um with
disabilities, and you know, howdo you how do you find help
students find the right college?
Um, how do you go about doingthat?
And and how do you how do youtell whether colleges you know
offer the right amount ofservices?
(11:33):
Um, but anyway, I'll let you goahead with that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:36):
Well, well, as as you well know, there's different
levels of support available.
Um sometimes when when familiesof children with disabilities
start touring colleges, they'llthey'll ask questions, typically
of the admissions folks.
Hey, my kid has ADHD, dyslexia,autism.
Um, what do you have for them?
(11:57):
And the admissions folks are insomewhat of a marketing
capacity.
Um, so they'll say, oh, we havethis great disability service
center that can provideaccommodations and you register
and you get all this stuff thatyou also got in high school.
And it sounds great, but folksneed to realize that all
colleges, for the most part,provide that by federal law as a
(12:18):
bare minimum.
So that's kind of the minimumstandard.
But again, as you well know,there's there's other colleges
that go above and beyond,whether it's a sort of what I
think of as a la carte servicesor one-off services like peer
mentoring or academic coaching.
And then there's a smallernumber of, as you sort of, you
know, move up the pyramid, so tospeak, you get to a smaller
(12:40):
number of colleges, a fractionof the total number of colleges
that have robust, comprehensivesupport programs, learning
support programs as, or autismprograms, or autism support
programs, as indeed CurryCollege has.
And I've actually made a list ora database of those colleges,
which is freely available on thewebsite.
(13:02):
It's sortable.
So you can, if you're lookingjust for colleges in Texas or
Ohio or wherever, you can youcan sort it and have described
what the services are, what thecost of the program is.
Families don't always realizethat there is a cost.
Uh, so it's important to sort offigure out, back to your
question of, you know, how doyou go navigate the college
(13:22):
search?
What do you need in a college?
Of course, students withdisabilities still have all the
usual suspects in terms offactors for choosing a college.
Does it have the major that Ithat I'm interested in?
Does it have the, is it theright size for me?
Is it the right setting, youknow, urban, suburban, uh, the
right part of the country?
(13:43):
There's lots of things that gointo what students are looking
for, size, cost.
But there's this added layer forstudents who are neurodivergent
or have other kinds ofdisabilities, which is, is it
gonna support me in the way thatI need to?
And that could be sort ofcultural or environmental in the
sense of, hey, I'm kind ofquirky or my kid is is kind of
(14:06):
quirky.
Are they gonna feel at home?
Are they gonna make friends?
Are they gonna feel welcomedversus marginalized?
Or it could be more sort ofpragmatic.
Um, my child needs a supportprogram where they can meet with
a learning specialist, you know,X number of times a week who can
help them with assignments, helpthem navigate college, uh, et
(14:27):
cetera, or maybe meet with apeer mentor who can help them
get to clubs and sort of makesome social connections and
develop a social life.
Because maybe they either hadtrouble making friends in high
school, or they had friends, butthey were friends that they've
had since they were inkindergarten, and they need to,
you know, be able to make newfriends in college where they
(14:49):
don't know anybody.
So we're helping families assesswhat are your child's needs, and
then what are the types ofcolleges that offer those.
And it is a series ofconversations, questionnaires,
etc.
It isn't just, hey, my kid hasADHD, where should they apply to
college?
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
Right.
I spent some time looking atyour the list of schools you
have, and it's incrediblyimpressive.
Um, that must have taken a lotof time.
I mean, you I assume you keepadding and I do, yes.
Um it's a ma it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Yeah, you know, if I learn of a new program out
there, and you know, Curry hasadded programs, of course.
Uh, then I well, I mean, Curry'sbeen on the list since the very
beginning, but uh, I'll keepadding programs.
You know, if I find out uh thecost of a program has gone up, I
go into the database and revisethe cost.
And that's an again, you know,not to harp on cost, but that's
(15:47):
important for families to knowthat they're thinking about
often, you know, what's thetuition, what's the cost of room
and board.
There's this extra piece in somecases for support.
And that needs to be factored inwhen you're thinking about which
college can we afford.
Now, you know, not to go for toofar down that rabbit hole.
(16:08):
Sometimes families will getsupport from other sources, like
uh vocational rehab departmentsin their particular state, but
that's on a state by by statebasis.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
You know, I just want to ask one general question
here because you've been in thefield for a long time, and I'm
curious to know um how you seelike have colleges and
universities become more openand accessible?
Or like have you seen the growthof that or not?
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Uh uh a number of things havechanged.
So I'm on the board of theCollege Autism Network, um, and
in Ireland, there's a charitycalled As I Am that developed
this template for universitiesto become autism friendly.
So we've been talking aboutsupport programs, and it's great
(17:02):
that those are out there.
To me, the gold standard, theultimate goal that I'd like to
see us get to, not just inhigher education, but in
workplaces and organizations ingeneral, is universal design,
where spaces, whereorganizations are designed to be
welcoming for everyone.
And that takes the burden off ofthe student.
(17:23):
One of the challenges, as youwell know, for students as they
transition from high school tocollege, is that instead of the
high school sort of doingeverything for them, delivering
their 504 IEP plan, studentshave to do a lot more of the
work of self-identifying,talking to professors, and et
(17:43):
cetera.
When you have universal design,then everyone gets their needs
met.
Just like you know, if there's aramp and you travel by
wheelchair, you don't have toask for some help to get up a
curb.
You everyone can get up thecurb, or if you're you know on a
skateboard or what have you.
So uh back to your question ofwhat's changing College Autism
(18:05):
Network is trying to helpcolleges in the US become autism
friendly and sort of certifywhich colleges are welcoming as
a whole.
So that's one trend that we'veseen some universities think
about as a whole.
How can we be welcoming toneurodivergent or disabled
students, not just what youknow, one-off programs or
(18:28):
services do we need to add?
Uh, a second trend would be thatI'm just seeing more colleges
offer programs.
So that's great that the numberof programs, the size of our
database has grown over theyears.
A third is that you see somestudents who really lean into
their identity, who are proud ofbeing disabled or
(18:48):
neurodivergent, are starting andrunning clubs or organizations,
student-run organizations incollege, so that, you know,
instead of being something thatthey are secretive or hiding,
they are out and proud.
And uh that's great.
The students can findlike-minded other students.
And then, you know, a morerecent trend, unfortunately, has
(19:11):
been sort of the sort ofbacklash against DEI in colleges
in the past year or so, which Ithink could have some potential
spillover to um programs thatsupport students with
disabilities.
SPEAKER_03 (19:28):
We'll have to keep our eyes on that as we go
forward.
SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
And on a you know, side note, New York Times just
today came out with an articleabout the increasing numbers of
students with disabilities incollege.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Really?
Well, I can bring that up.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Now, of course, when you talk about and it's huge
increases in the number ofstudents disclosing disabilities
in college, important, ofcourse, to distinguish does that
mean there's more students withADHD or autism or mental health
issues in college, or thatthey've been identified, or that
(20:05):
they're more comfortabledisclosing.
It's probably the two latterfactors.
More students are gettingdiagnosed.
Sure, there may be more studentswith mental health issues, um,
but also students are arestarting to disclose more.
SPEAKER_04 (20:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:22):
I see that also.
SPEAKER_03 (20:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
Well, I want to take a little bit of a turn.
Um and and we will I'm backingup, we'll we'll put your
database in the show notes sopeople can get to your website
and find that um because it'smassively helpful.
Um, but what I uh you mentionedearlier about graduate students,
(20:46):
and I'd like to ask you a littlebit about that because that's an
area we we work so hard to helpparents understand the the
admission process and gettinginto college and then helping
students succeed in college.
And and sometimes I think weneglect the next step, which for
probably the majority ofstudents is moving into a
(21:08):
career.
But there are some students whowant to go on to graduate
programs of one kind or another.
And I'm curious how how theadvice that you would give to
students and parents might bedifferent uh you know in that
kind of application process.
Um, knowing, of course, that bythe time a student is applying
(21:32):
to graduate school, hopefullyparents have stepped back a
little bit, but maybe, maybenot.
Um so so what is it like for forstudents applying to that next
step?
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Um yeah, great, great question.
I love working with studentsapplying to grad school.
It is so much fun.
I mean, they're significantlyolder, so they tend to be more
mature.
They also tend to be more sortof in charge of things.
And in fact, many times I nevereven meet the parents.
So as far as advice for parents,they're often not in the picture
at all.
I have had some students who arestill in college, you know, who
(22:09):
are college seniors, where theparents are more in the picture
because the students are so busywith their work in college.
So parents are, you know,helping out.
Um, the process, so there'sstuff that's similar in terms of
applying to grad school, andthere's stuff that's different.
It's similar in the sense youhave to come up with a list of
schools or programs you applyto, figure out, you know, where
(22:33):
you have a chance of getting in.
There may be standardizedtesting involved, the GRE as
opposed to the SAT, um,although, of course, that's
that's changed with thepandemic.
And then there are essaysinvolved.
So, in the broad strokes, it itmay sound like a similar
process, but in other ways it'squite different.
(22:53):
And sometimes when I talk tohigh school students who are not
very happy academically becausethey have to take all these
courses they don't like, youknow, in high school, every year
it's history, math, English,social studies, uh, science.
And what if you're justinterested in math and science?
Or what if you're justinterested in humanities and you
(23:14):
still have to take these othercourses?
Well, I tell them, you know,it's gonna get better in
college.
You know, in college, you pickyour major, you're gonna take a
bunch of courses in that areathat you really like and may not
have to take that many othercourses depending on the the
college, because of coursecurricula vary in colleges.
But then in grad school, it'sgonna get even better because
(23:35):
you're just gonna focus on thatone thing you love and that's
it.
And you know, you could be anexpert in one arcane area,
esoteric area of history orscience or art, and you can just
dive into that.
You don't have to take all thoseother courses.
So, and that is also reflectedin the application process,
(23:56):
right?
So, when you're applying tocollege as a high school
student, you're listing allthese activities.
You were on this club, youplayed this sport, you play this
musical instrument.
Colleges want to know all thestuff you do.
Um, and when you're applying tograd school, it's more laser
focused.
So colleges care about, youknow, the courses that you took
(24:17):
relevant to the area of studyyou're planning to study in in
grad school.
So I work with being apsychologist, I love working
with students who are futuremental health professionals.
They want to know, you know,what psych courses you took in
college.
If you took a bunch of artelectives, that's great, but
that's not really going to helpyou get into a psych program.
(24:39):
So, you know, it's those thosegrades and and courses related
to your intended area of studyin grad school.
It's the experience you have,the the work experience, um, in
the case of, say, you know,clinical psychology, clinical
work, research experience, andand those are the key things.
(25:00):
So it's pretty focused.
It's not all this other stuff ofwhat are your hobbies and stuff.
And that's all again alsoreflected in the the essay, so
to speak, typically called astatement of purpose or SOP or
something along those lines,where the students talking about
why I want to study, why do Iwant to study physics in grad
school, what's led me to thispoint, what do I want to focus
(25:21):
on in grad school?
How does that tie into mycareer?
So it's it's past, present, andfuture in terms of that area of
study and that career, not youknow, your all this other stuff
that you might talk about inessays applying to college.
SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
Uh that's really helpful.
And I love that that sort offunnel analogy, um, which which
might help drive some studentsthrough some of those gen ed
courses that are not theirfavorites in in college, but
seeing that down the line you'llyou'll really get to get better
and better.
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
And you can, you know, you can look for colleges
if if if you are sort of laserfocused, you can look for
colleges that have a more opencurriculum that don't have a lot
of gen ed requirements.
There are a handful of collegesthat have very few requirements
outside of your major, exceptfor typically a freshman English
class.
Um, whereas other colleges havea robust core curriculum, which
(26:21):
some students like.
There are also students who arelike, this is great.
I'm gonna get a liberal artseducation, a real solid
foundation.
Nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_03 (26:30):
And sometimes they discover something that they
never thought about and theylove.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I took courses in allkinds of stuff in college and
and discovered things, you justI don't remember how I randomly
took some anthropology coursesand I was like, this is really
interesting.
Um by the time I discovered Iwas already far along in being
an English major, but um, youknow, if I didn't have that
flexibility, I never would haveknown.
SPEAKER_03 (26:57):
Yeah, that's good.
There's another area that Ithink we would be negligent if
we didn't talk to you about, um,because it's something that all
of us everywhere are trying tocome to terms with, and that's
AI.
Um and how that is affecting umthe application process or
(27:20):
anything you know aboutstudents.
I mean, I think I may be wrong,and you'll correct me on this,
but I think students are kind ofgetting the message that it's
probably not the best thing tojust ask AI to write your essay,
um, your application essay, butbeyond, and if I'm wrong about
that, maybe that maybe they aredoing that uh exclusively, then
(27:43):
correct me.
But uh, how has it affected theprocess or how can they use it
productively?
What what's what's therelationship?
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
So that is a huge topic, and as you can imagine
these days, uh my colleagues andI are talking about this all the
time.
It is, you know, webinars andmeetings.
Uh it seems like past one to twoyears, it's all anyone can talk
about.
Uh so huge impacts, and let'skeep in mind the the it's on
(28:12):
both sides of the desk.
It isn't just students, collegesare using AI to evaluate
applications, to evaluatestudents who are applying to
college.
Um and in some cases, well, inmany cases, telling students you
can't use your your AI for yourapplication.
So it's it's a delicate umlandscape at the moment.
(28:37):
Uh but colleges have seenskyrocketing numbers of
applications, so they're turningto any number of tools,
including AI, to help evaluate.
It's not in place of humanbeings, it's to supplement what
human beings are doing in termsof looking at at um college
applications.
So it's it's on the other sidetoo.
(28:59):
And there are colleges that aretelling students everyone while
in college has to develop someAI.
Um what's the word?
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
Literacy.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Literacy, yes, that's what I was looking for.
AI literacy.
So just like you know, before itwas computers, you have to have
basic understanding of computersto you know function in the
modern world.
Uh now it's AI.
Of course, there are collegeswhere you can major in
AI-related majors.
So it is absolutely beingembraced in some ways as a
(29:31):
useful tool.
Of course, you know, whenChatGPT came out, the big worry
is uh students are going to usethis to write their essays for
college.
And what are the implications ofthat?
Um, it's it's gottencomplicated.
Colleges, I think, in somecases, or whether it's the
application process or studentsin college courses looking for
(29:54):
ways to evaluate students wherethey can't lean on other tools,
like you know, a live interviewor asking students to write
things in class on the spotwhere they they can't use other
tools.
We certainly don't want studentsusing AI in their essays.
Um, it is this the essays aresupposed to be really personal,
(30:16):
really share something aboutyou, and AI can't replicate
that.
Um I've put it in my contractthat that students can't use
those kinds of tools whenthey're writing their essays.
Students have to sign off whenthey when they submit the common
app, that they haven't, that allof their work is their own.
So there's there's a lot ofreasons why students shouldn't.
(30:40):
But you know, students are infact using AI very regularly in
in mass numbers for a whole lotof things, including emotional,
social, emotional things.
That's kind of a companion,which is a whole other topic.
Uh, but they need to be reallythoughtful.
Yes, these tools can be reallyuseful in terms of organizing
(31:03):
your thoughts and providingstructure, kind of saying, hey,
gosh, I'm going into the collegeadmissions process and I have
all these tasks I need to do.
Ask me some questions to help meorganize my college admissions
plan.
So I could absolutely see usingAI to help you map out a plan.
Or, you know, I've got 15colleges in the Northeast that
(31:27):
I'm interested in in touring,help me come up with a plan, an
efficient way of visiting them,decide, you know, how many I
should visit per day, all thatstuff.
You can use it for all kinds ofthings.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
Organization, that I mean, that makes sense to me,
that it could be a plus forthat.
SPEAKER_02 (31:43):
Yeah.
I I helped give a high schoolprincipal from another country a
tour of a bunch of colleges,including Curry, uh, several
years ago.
And I spent so many hourslooking at maps and figuring out
what's the most efficient way toget from point A to point B.
Now it would take you know oneminute from with AI.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
That's true.
Um, let's see.
I am back to asking abouttrends.
I'm curious to know if you'veseen some trends involving or
about um students going takinggap year programs or students
(32:22):
doing um post-grad programs.
Do you see more flexibility withpart-time school?
You know, some of the you know,alternative ways to approach
school.
SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
Yeah, well, part-time, I'll just speak about
that real briefly, I think.
Um if students want to go tocollege part-time, a good option
is community college where youcan work part-time or full-time
and take one or two courses at atime and kind of dip your feet
in the water and and then takeas long as you need to to finish
(32:56):
your your associate's degree,and then maybe later transfer
somewhere else for thebachelor's if you want.
Um part-time education at afour-year college is is a lot
trickier.
You can sometimes get adisability waiver or
accommodation of being able tohave a reduced course load and
(33:20):
still get the benefits offull-time, but it is not a slam
dunk.
It's not something families orstudents can count on getting at
a four-year college.
It exists, but it's it's acollege-by-college basis.
So um, back to the gap here andpost-PG or post-grad question.
Uh, it's something I've been infavor of all along.
(33:43):
I think with the pandemic, yousaw more students leaning into
it.
Like, hey, I don't want Zoomschool in college, I don't enjoy
it in in high school, so I'mgonna take a year off and wait
for things to settle down.
So I think I think that drovesome of the growth in gap year
options, but there's benefitsfor students across the board.
(34:06):
I I love it when students areopen to gap years.
I encourage students to considerit.
What I find is that a lot ofstudents rule it out right off
the bat.
Nope, not interested.
I want to go straight tocollege.
My friends are going straight tocollege.
I don't want to take a gap year.
I think sometimes they justdon't understand what a gap year
means because it could meanalmost anything.
(34:26):
It could mean writing a novel,it could mean um working
full-time, it could be travelingaround the country, or if you
need help becoming more collegeready, it could be mean going to
a PG or gap year program,specifically for neurodivergent
students, to build collegereadiness, social skills,
(34:47):
academic readiness, executivefunction skills.
And that's true for a lot of ourstudents.
A lot of our students could usethat extra year, an extra year
of working on those skills sothat when they get to college,
going back to my you know, ourvery first topic, they can they
can stay in and graduate and notdrop out because uh they weren't
(35:08):
ready.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Lots of good information here.
SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
And I'm seeing more gap year and PG year programs
come online.
Yes.
Um, of course, curry being a oneexample, but uh you know, I do
sort of keep tabs on thoseprograms.
Sometimes students will go to aprogram that isn't technically a
gap year program, but sort ofworks as a gap year program, a
program for neurodivergentstudents, whether they're in
(35:34):
college or going to collegelater.
So there's a lot of options outthere in addition to the sort of
official gap year programs.
SPEAKER_03 (35:42):
And and is it true that some students may take, may
get, may apply to college, beaccepted, and then decide to
take a gap year program.
They defer so that they know atthe end of their gap year they
have a place.
Yes.
Um and other students mightchoose to do the opposite, to do
(36:03):
the gap year and then applybecause they're going to be
able, they're going to be betterready, and perhaps their
admission packet may lookdifferent.
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
Yeah, good point, Vicky.
I uh I love to see studentsapply in senior year when they
can, um, but there aresituations, as you mentioned,
where they are better offwaiting.
I'm working with a student rightnow who's high school senior,
she's not planning to apply.
Uh, she didn't apply duringsenior year.
She's gonna do a gap year.
She has two interests, and she'sgonna split up her gap year to
(36:37):
explore both of these interestsso that when it comes time to
apply, she'll have a bettersense of what am I going to
college to study?
And she's gonna be more focusedwhen she gets to college, and
it's gonna help her inform hercollege list.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Yeah.
And I suppose a student whoapplies and defers, uh, you're
not locked in.
You could you could reapplysomewhere else.
And right.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
Um you do put down a deposit and you are telling the
college that I'm gonna enroll ina year.
Um, and you know, sorry,colleges, but it is it is true
that a college that a studentcould say, you know what, during
that gap year, I discovered thatI actually want to major in
something else that that collegedoesn't offer.
So I'm rescinding my, you know,I'm backing out of that.
(37:24):
You might lose the deposit, andof course the college would be
disappointed, but sure, you youcan do that.
SPEAKER_03 (37:29):
It's probably less less common that that way.
SPEAKER_02 (37:32):
Yeah, I haven't seen it a lot, but it's nice to know
that that you're you're not, asyou said, absolutely locked in.
SPEAKER_03 (37:37):
Right.
Um so you have given us so manypieces of advice and that
parents can take and studentscan take, and and there's you
know, discover how much isinvolved.
If you had to give one piece ofadvice to the parents of a
student whose first child, or Ihate to say child, the first kid
(38:02):
is going off to college.
What what would one be one thingyou would really want them to
know or think about?
SPEAKER_02 (38:10):
Yeah, I mean, there are so many.
SPEAKER_03 (38:13):
I know that you see you don't like my double
questions while I'm asking.
SPEAKER_02 (38:17):
But I I I I will I'll, you know, for for this
this round, what I'll go with isYou can have a couple.
You know, we parents often focusa lot on the name of the
college.
You know, can my kid get into anIvy League school or you know, a
NISCAC school or or some schoolthat that we think has a good
reputation because we thinkthat's gonna help them, you
(38:39):
know, have a great career and agreat life if they go to a
so-called good college.
So the the piece of advice is tohelp your child realize that
it's more about what they do incollege than where they go.
And so start thinking about whatare some of the things you
should really be working on incollege to set yourself up for a
(39:02):
successful experience in collegeand after college, such as
finding a mentor, connectingwith a professor or someone else
in college who can take youunder their wing and help you.
Maybe it's somebody in thecareer center.
Uh, by all means, take advantageof the resources like the career
center, counseling center, thetutoring center to get the most
(39:26):
out of you know, those bigtuition bucks you're spending.
Do something experiential likestudy abroad, get an internship.
Not you don't have to pick one.
Employers love to seeinternships.
Um, I didn't do study abroadtechnically when I was in
college, but I did spend sometime in South America.
(39:47):
And after I graduated college,that was like the one thing
employers wanted to talk about.
What were you doing in Columbia?
Tell me about that.
So, you know, do somethinginteresting and different in
college, both to, you know, it'sgonna be a great experience for
you, but it's also gonna helpmake you more appealing to
employers.
So there's a variety of thingsthat that research has shown
(40:08):
helps you have a more successfulmake college be be
life-changing, as it were.
Um, versus thinking like if mykid can just get into this
college, then everything willfall into place.
SPEAKER_03 (40:21):
Yeah, good advice.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
I don't want you to leave before I ask this one last
this question.
Um, and I am really curious.
Um I want to know if you couldtalk a little bit about the book
that you wrote with twocolleagues about about adults,
um, older autistic adults.
And I'm I'm asking because Ithink many of our parents would
(40:44):
be really interested.
Um, there aren't there's notthat much information out there.
SPEAKER_02 (40:48):
Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why we wrote it.
Of course, we're we're reallyshifting gears here away from
the world.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
I know, a total shift.
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
From teenagers to to the parents, yeah, to older
autistic adults.
Um, we those of us who arewriting the book were over 50
ourselves, uh-huh, and uh and wesurveyed 150 over age 50
autistic adults around theworld, primarily the US and the
(41:15):
UK.
Um, and we just got the word outand distributed the survey.
It was a long survey, a lot ofquestions.
So gave us just a very richsource of material to draw on,
to quote people who who filledout the survey, as well as you
know, some summaries of what wecould gather from the survey.
For example, you know, over 80%of folks reported um having felt
(41:43):
that they were bullied in as achild growing up.
Um, the vast majority, almosteveryone in the study, didn't
get diagnosed with autism untilafter age 40.
So if you were growing up backthen, before autism was so
widely diagnosed and widelyunderstood, uh, so many people
(42:03):
flew under the radar and didn'tfigure it out until they were
adults.
And a lot of people had theexperience of like, wow, this
explains so much.
Now I understand myself, Iunderstand why people have
reacted to me the way they havethroughout my life.
Um, so really interestinginterviews.
Um, and as you said, there's solittle written.
(42:26):
You know, I I did a literaturesearch as part of preparing to
write the book.
And when I found articles on thetopic, every article I found,
and there weren't many, saidthere's not much research on
this topic.
That was the conclusion of mostof the handful of articles I I
found.
And uh, you know, Tony Atwood,who's one of the world experts
(42:49):
on uh what is used to be calledAsperger Syndrome, uh, who wrote
um the forward for the book umhas sort of helped promote the
book because he says, you know,there's there's just so little
on this topic.
SPEAKER_00 (43:05):
I would agree.
I'm thrilled that you did it.
So you've told us a lot aboutthe book, but tell us the title.
SPEAKER_02 (43:12):
Oh, it's called Older Artistic Adults.
Oh, okay.
Older artistic adults in theirown Yeah.
Okay.
Go ahead and uh No, no, you weregonna say Oh, yeah, older
artistic adults in their ownwords, the lost generation.
It's kind of a long title, butif you look for older artistic
adults on Amazon or whatever,okay, we will link to we'll link
to it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:32):
Yeah.
And you know, you said this isreally uh pivoting away from you
know talking to teenagers, butit occurs to me that um some of
the parents that are listeningto this, because they have
perhaps an autistic um child inhigh school getting ready for
college or or in college, umtheir child is going to become
(43:55):
an autistic adult.
And so parents may be interestedin knowing what's down the road.
SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
Um and and it's yeah, and I think there's uh a
big genetic component.
So some of the parents areautistic themselves and don't
know it.
And I'm not in the business ofdiagnosing, you know, I'm a
psychologist, so I used todiagnose people, but I'm not
diagnosing my students or theirparents.
But there's a lot ofneurodivergent parents.
Some of them know it, some ofthem tell me, you know, I have
(44:24):
ADHD or I think I have ADHD orautism.
Other ones, I have a sense thatthey're neurodivergent.
Um, but you know, they can theycan explore that on their own.
SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
So there's a there are a lot of reasons per people
might be interested in the book,either for themselves or
thinking uh about the future.
We all get over there and child.
SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
And there's a lot of concern about you know the the
so called services cliff whenwhen kids reach twenty one,
twenty two.
Depending on the state wherewhere the huge amount of support
they had in the K-12 system justkind of vanishes overnight.
SPEAKER_03 (45:00):
Yeah.
Um, so we often like to and welike to pick people's brains
about books.
Um I'm wondering if there areany books, one or two that you
any other books uh besides yoursthat you recommend for students
and or parents as they're goingthrough uh the application
(45:24):
process or as they are incollege.
SPEAKER_02 (45:29):
Um yeah, I mean uh on I want to give a shout out to
a book that just came out,Neurodiversity Affirming
Schools.
I think it's a it's a greatpotential guide for schools to
become more inclusive.
That's Emily Kircher Morris andAmanda Morin.
(45:52):
Um, but that's not so much forparents unless they happen to
work in the educational system.
Um so Jeff Solingo's books arereally good, like Dream School
is his latest.
SPEAKER_03 (46:04):
Um Who Gets In and Why and Why, right.
SPEAKER_02 (46:10):
And then there's an older book, Frank Bruni, uh
Where You Go is Not Who You WhoYou Are or Who You'll Be.
SPEAKER_04 (46:19):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
Um So Good Stuff.
But yeah, but Jeff Slingo'sbooks really help sort of break
down with with data, especiallyDream School, the latest one,
um, kind of what is thedifference between these
different tiers of schools?
And some interesting findingsthat in some regards you're not
seeing a lot of difference inthe outcomes, whether it's the
(46:40):
sort of lesser-known schools orthe highly selective schools.
In some areas, the differenceswere minimal or or you know
non-existent.
Um, I should say, you know, wewere talking briefly about
highly selective schools andname brand schools.
For a subset of students,students who are marginalized,
(47:02):
first generation, students ofcolor, some of them will get a
real benefit from if they canget into a highly selective
school because it opens the doorto networks that their families
don't have access to compared toprivileged families.
But for students who alreadycome from a privileged
background, uh, it doesn't, it'sit's not really a game changer
(47:24):
to the same degree.
SPEAKER_03 (47:26):
Yep.
That's I I as you were talkingearlier about that one piece of
advice, and not to go by name, Icouldn't, you know, I couldn't
agree more, and I couldn't helpbut think of Dream School,
Salingo's book.
So those are all several good.
SPEAKER_02 (47:43):
Yeah, and I worked with a student uh a couple years
ago, a pro bonus student who hadum a physical disability, um
came was a student of color andcame from an extremely
impoverished background, uh verycomplicated family situation,
single parent, um, parent didn'teven speak English, parent was
(48:05):
on disability herself.
Um the student got into IvyLeague schools as well as other
highly selective schools, and Ithink for him it could be
life-changing to walk into thatenvironment given where he came
from.
But but students who are comingfrom successful privileged
families um have the resourcesto be successful uh at a wide
(48:27):
range of colleges.
SPEAKER_03 (48:29):
Yeah.
Keep all the doors open asyou're thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (48:34):
Yeah, and and so many of our students, as we've
discussed, need that higherlevel of support, those robust
learning support programs orautism support programs that are
very hard to come by in highlyselective schools.
They tend to be at schools, someof the flagship state
universities have them, a wholebunch of big, big state
(48:55):
universities have those supportprograms, and then a number of
really small private collegeshave them too.
Not so many highly selectiveprivate colleges.
SPEAKER_03 (49:05):
Lots of food for thought for parents and students
to think about.
This is a wonderfulconversation, and uh, you know,
as so often happens, we could goon and on.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (49:18):
Thanks for reininging me in.
SPEAKER_00 (49:20):
Well, we're thrilled that you came and that you
shared lots of information withus.
So thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03 (49:29):
So um, if if people want to find you, um where where
do they go?
Where do they look?
SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
Look at topcollegeconsultants.com or
email me at ericeric attopcollegeconsultants.com.
SPEAKER_03 (49:46):
Okay.
So we will put all of that inthe show notes and some of the
other things that you've talkedabout in that database.
Um, so thank you so much fortaking time to meet with us
today.
So, to everyone, thank you forlistening and staying with us if
you are still here to the bitterend.
(50:07):
And we will see you next time.
SPEAKER_04 (50:09):
Bye bye.
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
Whether your child is justbeginning the college admission
process or is already incollege, this podcast is for
you.
You'll find food for thought andinformation about college and
about navigating that delicatebalance of guidance,
involvement, and knowing when toget out of the way.
(01:24):
Join your hosts, Vicki Nelsonand Lynn Abrahams, as they share
support and a celebration of theamazing experience of having a
child in college.
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Welcome to the College Parent Central Podcast.
This is the place where we talkabout all things connected to
parenting our kids, ourstudents, as they go to college,
as they apply, as they get in,and as they get out.
My name is Lynn Abrahams, and Iam a learning disability
(02:01):
specialist.
I've been working with collegestudents for many, many years
and their families.
But I'm also a parent, a mom oftwo sons who have all gone
through college and aroundcollege and in and out.
And I'm allowed to tell thestory.
(02:32):
Yes, most of the time whenyou're here, I'm here.
SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
When I'm here, you're here.
So uh no surprise.
I'm Vicki Nelson.
I am a college professor ofcommunication at a small liberal
arts college.
I've also served a few years asa director of academic advising.
And so I see students every day.
I see what works, I see whatdoesn't work.
(02:56):
Um I learn from them andhopefully they learn from me.
Um but the like Lynn, my secondqualification is I have three
daughters.
Lynn has the boys and I have thegirls, uh, who have all gone on
to college and who are all outof college and have moved on.
So um I learned by fire, uh,even though I teach in a
(03:19):
college, it was very differentwhen I was a parent.
So we bring we both bring bothperspectives to that.
And we are here with a veryspecial guest, and I'm going to
let Lynn introduce him.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So our special guest is Dr.
Eric Enlik, and he is a clinicalpsychologist, a writer,
presenter, researcher, who's thefounder of Top College
Consultants, an organizationdedicated to helping students
worldwide successfully apply tocollege and transition to
(03:52):
college and graduate school.
In 2021, Exceptional Needs Todaymagazine honored Dr.
Endlick as a top contributor forhis article, Seven Things
Students with DisabilitiesShould Do When Starting College.
He's a co-author of the 2021book, Older Autistic Adults, in
(04:14):
their own words, The LostGeneration.
Dr.
Enlik has served as a primaryresearcher and co-investigator
in several projects from theU.S.
Department of Education,National Science Foundation,
Institute of Education.
And he's also taught at TuftsUniversity, Suffolk University,
(04:35):
Boston College, and UMassBoston.
And I've been told by others inthe field he's the best in the
field.
So welcome.
Welcome, Eric.
We're thrilled to have you.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
Thanks, Lynn.
It's great to be here with youand Vicki.
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
So we're going to start out with just asking, you
know, we like to start by askingpeople how they came into this
line of work.
Um, you know, so tell us alittle bit about your personal
story and how you got here.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Sure.
It's a combination of thepersonal and the professional.
As you said, I'm a clinicalpsychologist.
I worked in mental healthsettings for many years, um,
which is very fulfilling.
And I started seeing, I alwaysloved working with teens, but I
saw some who went off to collegeand did not thrive there and did
(05:25):
not stay in.
And I thought, you know, there'sgot to be a better way.
There's got to be a way toensure that if and when they
they decide to go to college,they're they're going to be
successful.
I think of it as kind of likethat uh saying they they say
with um, you know, woodworking,measure twice, cut once.
If you can't kind of get itright the first time, maybe
(05:45):
you'll stay in and not have tocome back with your tail between
your legs and feel like afailure.
You know, it's it's expensivefinancially and yeah um and
emotionally.
So, you know, that that was apiece of it.
Um my own two adult children areneurodivergent.
Uh, I discovered years into theprocess that I'm neurodivergent
(06:09):
too.
And so when I discoverededucational consulting and
realized I could sort of pulltogether all of my interests in
neurodivergence, in counselingskills, working with teens, um,
you know, love of highereducation.
Uh, it was just a natural fit.
So I kind of switched over tofound top college consultants,
(06:32):
and now we work with studentsaround the country, primarily
students with learningdifferences or emotional
challenges to, as you said,successfully apply to and
transition to college.
SPEAKER_03 (06:43):
You know, you have uh a very unique combination of
being a consultant and and doingthe work you do there, but
you're also a psychologist.
So you you bring together, youknow, some some really special
skills.
Um and I I'd like to hear alittle more about that, but also
(07:04):
um, we had a conversation withyou on the podcast, um, and
we've determined it was fiveyears ago.
Um, so that's been a while.
Um, we were in the middle ofCOVID at the time.
Um, but I'm curious also howyour work has changed over the
years.
Not just not just these pastfive years, although that's you
(07:25):
know, things are different now.
But have you uh how has yourwork evolved?
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
Yeah, well, let me tackle you.
You were asking, I always askthese double questions.
SPEAKER_03 (07:36):
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
Double double barreled questions, my my
dissertation advisor used tocall them.
Um, yeah, so to talk about beinga psychologist first, um,
everyone, so being aneducational consultant, it's a
it's a wonderful profession.
Uh people are so supportive.
We're all dedicated to helpingchild students succeed, um,
(07:58):
equity in education.
And um, we're really supportiveof each other.
And when I and and we've allcome from different fields.
So, you know, I know educationalconsultants who are lawyers,
doctors, engineers, computerscientists, you name it, people
who've been in the entertainmentbusiness.
Uh, but again, we share thatpassion for helping students
(08:20):
succeed.
I wasn't really sure coming inas a psychologist with a mental
health background how that wouldplay out being a consultant.
It turns out it's been extremelyhelpful.
Uh, one of the areas, first ofall, as you can imagine, these
days families are reallystressed out about the college
application process.
And people have told methroughout my career that I have
(08:40):
a calming presence.
So I've maybe maybe it's justthat I don't have much affect,
but what whatever it is, um, itseems like that helps students
kind of get through this processand keep them emotionally
tethered as they go through theups and downs of high school and
applying to college.
But especially when they'reworking on their essays, there's
(09:03):
a lot of self-reflection thatgoes into the college admissions
essays.
They're very different from whatstudents are used to writing in
high school or in college ifthey're applying to a grad
school.
And so students often get kindof thrown off by that.
But having, you know, been alistening professional for a
long time and helping peoplekind of self-reflect, it really
(09:26):
comes very naturally to me.
Plus, um, I'm a lifelong writerand editor on top of that.
So I love helping helping folkswith the writing process.
So that was your first question.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Oh, oh, right.
And then we all need thatcalming influence these days.
So that's we certainly hearstudents have so much anxiety.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Yeah, I mean, you know, especially with the
pandemic, anxiety justskyrocketed.
I'm sure you see that in thecollege setting too.
Um, so and then you also askeduh how my work has changed.
Um, you know, we've we've reallydoubled down on serving students
with disabilities.
Uh sometimes there's studentswith other kinds of
(10:10):
disabilities, um, which has beenreally fulfilling as well.
We see so many of our studentsstruggle with executive
functioning.
Um, my team has grown, you know.
Uh so again, I have a nationwideteam of consultants working with
students around the country.
Some of the folks on my teamalso do executive function
(10:32):
coaching or academic coaching.
So that's really helpful.
And we've kind of uh specializedor carved out our niches a bit.
One of the folks on my team whohappens to be in Massachusetts
specializes in transfer studentswho are transferring from one
college to another.
Someone else on my team does umwork with recruited athletes.
(10:53):
So it's been great to be able toserve a diversity of students.
And um Yeah, those are some ofthe key things.
SPEAKER_00 (11:03):
Well, I have one question for you.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (11:07):
She's gonna be easy on you.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Um I'm curious to know.
Um, you know, I've worked withstudents with with um with
disabilities, and you know, howdo you how do you find help
students find the right college?
Um, how do you go about doingthat?
And and how do you how do youtell whether colleges you know
offer the right amount ofservices?
(11:33):
Um, but anyway, I'll let you goahead with that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:36):
Well, well, as as you well know, there's different
levels of support available.
Um sometimes when when familiesof children with disabilities
start touring colleges, they'llthey'll ask questions, typically
of the admissions folks.
Hey, my kid has ADHD, dyslexia,autism.
Um, what do you have for them?
(11:57):
And the admissions folks are insomewhat of a marketing
capacity.
Um, so they'll say, oh, we havethis great disability service
center that can provideaccommodations and you register
and you get all this stuff thatyou also got in high school.
And it sounds great, but folksneed to realize that all
colleges, for the most part,provide that by federal law as a
(12:18):
bare minimum.
So that's kind of the minimumstandard.
But again, as you well know,there's there's other colleges
that go above and beyond,whether it's a sort of what I
think of as a la carte servicesor one-off services like peer
mentoring or academic coaching.
And then there's a smallernumber of, as you sort of, you
know, move up the pyramid, so tospeak, you get to a smaller
(12:40):
number of colleges, a fractionof the total number of colleges
that have robust, comprehensivesupport programs, learning
support programs as, or autismprograms, or autism support
programs, as indeed CurryCollege has.
And I've actually made a list ora database of those colleges,
which is freely available on thewebsite.
(13:02):
It's sortable.
So you can, if you're lookingjust for colleges in Texas or
Ohio or wherever, you can youcan sort it and have described
what the services are, what thecost of the program is.
Families don't always realizethat there is a cost.
Uh, so it's important to sort offigure out, back to your
question of, you know, how doyou go navigate the college
(13:22):
search?
What do you need in a college?
Of course, students withdisabilities still have all the
usual suspects in terms offactors for choosing a college.
Does it have the major that Ithat I'm interested in?
Does it have the, is it theright size for me?
Is it the right setting, youknow, urban, suburban, uh, the
right part of the country?
(13:43):
There's lots of things that gointo what students are looking
for, size, cost.
But there's this added layer forstudents who are neurodivergent
or have other kinds ofdisabilities, which is, is it
gonna support me in the way thatI need to?
And that could be sort ofcultural or environmental in the
sense of, hey, I'm kind ofquirky or my kid is is kind of
(14:06):
quirky.
Are they gonna feel at home?
Are they gonna make friends?
Are they gonna feel welcomedversus marginalized?
Or it could be more sort ofpragmatic.
Um, my child needs a supportprogram where they can meet with
a learning specialist, you know,X number of times a week who can
help them with assignments, helpthem navigate college, uh, et
(14:27):
cetera, or maybe meet with apeer mentor who can help them
get to clubs and sort of makesome social connections and
develop a social life.
Because maybe they either hadtrouble making friends in high
school, or they had friends, butthey were friends that they've
had since they were inkindergarten, and they need to,
you know, be able to make newfriends in college where they
(14:49):
don't know anybody.
So we're helping families assesswhat are your child's needs, and
then what are the types ofcolleges that offer those.
And it is a series ofconversations, questionnaires,
etc.
It isn't just, hey, my kid hasADHD, where should they apply to
college?
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
Right.
I spent some time looking atyour the list of schools you
have, and it's incrediblyimpressive.
Um, that must have taken a lotof time.
I mean, you I assume you keepadding and I do, yes.
Um it's a ma it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Yeah, you know, if I learn of a new program out
there, and you know, Curry hasadded programs, of course.
Uh, then I well, I mean, Curry'sbeen on the list since the very
beginning, but uh, I'll keepadding programs.
You know, if I find out uh thecost of a program has gone up, I
go into the database and revisethe cost.
And that's an again, you know,not to harp on cost, but that's
(15:47):
important for families to knowthat they're thinking about
often, you know, what's thetuition, what's the cost of room
and board.
There's this extra piece in somecases for support.
And that needs to be factored inwhen you're thinking about which
college can we afford.
Now, you know, not to go for toofar down that rabbit hole.
(16:08):
Sometimes families will getsupport from other sources, like
uh vocational rehab departmentsin their particular state, but
that's on a state by by statebasis.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
You know, I just want to ask one general question
here because you've been in thefield for a long time, and I'm
curious to know um how you seelike have colleges and
universities become more openand accessible?
Or like have you seen the growthof that or not?
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Uh uh a number of things havechanged.
So I'm on the board of theCollege Autism Network, um, and
in Ireland, there's a charitycalled As I Am that developed
this template for universitiesto become autism friendly.
So we've been talking aboutsupport programs, and it's great
(17:02):
that those are out there.
To me, the gold standard, theultimate goal that I'd like to
see us get to, not just inhigher education, but in
workplaces and organizations ingeneral, is universal design,
where spaces, whereorganizations are designed to be
welcoming for everyone.
And that takes the burden off ofthe student.
(17:23):
One of the challenges, as youwell know, for students as they
transition from high school tocollege, is that instead of the
high school sort of doingeverything for them, delivering
their 504 IEP plan, studentshave to do a lot more of the
work of self-identifying,talking to professors, and et
(17:43):
cetera.
When you have universal design,then everyone gets their needs
met.
Just like you know, if there's aramp and you travel by
wheelchair, you don't have toask for some help to get up a
curb.
You everyone can get up thecurb, or if you're you know on a
skateboard or what have you.
So uh back to your question ofwhat's changing College Autism
(18:05):
Network is trying to helpcolleges in the US become autism
friendly and sort of certifywhich colleges are welcoming as
a whole.
So that's one trend that we'veseen some universities think
about as a whole.
How can we be welcoming toneurodivergent or disabled
students, not just what youknow, one-off programs or
(18:28):
services do we need to add?
Uh, a second trend would be thatI'm just seeing more colleges
offer programs.
So that's great that the numberof programs, the size of our
database has grown over theyears.
A third is that you see somestudents who really lean into
their identity, who are proud ofbeing disabled or
(18:48):
neurodivergent, are starting andrunning clubs or organizations,
student-run organizations incollege, so that, you know,
instead of being something thatthey are secretive or hiding,
they are out and proud.
And uh that's great.
The students can findlike-minded other students.
And then, you know, a morerecent trend, unfortunately, has
(19:11):
been sort of the sort ofbacklash against DEI in colleges
in the past year or so, which Ithink could have some potential
spillover to um programs thatsupport students with
disabilities.
SPEAKER_03 (19:28):
We'll have to keep our eyes on that as we go
forward.
SPEAKER_02 (19:32):
And on a you know, side note, New York Times just
today came out with an articleabout the increasing numbers of
students with disabilities incollege.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Really?
Well, I can bring that up.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Now, of course, when you talk about and it's huge
increases in the number ofstudents disclosing disabilities
in college, important, ofcourse, to distinguish does that
mean there's more students withADHD or autism or mental health
issues in college, or thatthey've been identified, or that
(20:05):
they're more comfortabledisclosing.
It's probably the two latterfactors.
More students are gettingdiagnosed.
Sure, there may be more studentswith mental health issues, um,
but also students are arestarting to disclose more.
SPEAKER_04 (20:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:22):
I see that also.
SPEAKER_03 (20:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
Well, I want to take a little bit of a turn.
Um and and we will I'm backingup, we'll we'll put your
database in the show notes sopeople can get to your website
and find that um because it'smassively helpful.
Um, but what I uh you mentionedearlier about graduate students,
(20:46):
and I'd like to ask you a littlebit about that because that's an
area we we work so hard to helpparents understand the the
admission process and gettinginto college and then helping
students succeed in college.
And and sometimes I think weneglect the next step, which for
probably the majority ofstudents is moving into a
(21:08):
career.
But there are some students whowant to go on to graduate
programs of one kind or another.
And I'm curious how how theadvice that you would give to
students and parents might bedifferent uh you know in that
kind of application process.
Um, knowing, of course, that bythe time a student is applying
(21:32):
to graduate school, hopefullyparents have stepped back a
little bit, but maybe, maybenot.
Um so so what is it like for forstudents applying to that next
step?
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
Um yeah, great, great question.
I love working with studentsapplying to grad school.
It is so much fun.
I mean, they're significantlyolder, so they tend to be more
mature.
They also tend to be more sortof in charge of things.
And in fact, many times I nevereven meet the parents.
So as far as advice for parents,they're often not in the picture
at all.
I have had some students who arestill in college, you know, who
(22:09):
are college seniors, where theparents are more in the picture
because the students are so busywith their work in college.
So parents are, you know,helping out.
Um, the process, so there'sstuff that's similar in terms of
applying to grad school, andthere's stuff that's different.
It's similar in the sense youhave to come up with a list of
schools or programs you applyto, figure out, you know, where
(22:33):
you have a chance of getting in.
There may be standardizedtesting involved, the GRE as
opposed to the SAT, um,although, of course, that's
that's changed with thepandemic.
And then there are essaysinvolved.
So, in the broad strokes, it itmay sound like a similar
process, but in other ways it'squite different.
(22:53):
And sometimes when I talk tohigh school students who are not
very happy academically becausethey have to take all these
courses they don't like, youknow, in high school, every year
it's history, math, English,social studies, uh, science.
And what if you're justinterested in math and science?
Or what if you're justinterested in humanities and you
(23:14):
still have to take these othercourses?
Well, I tell them, you know,it's gonna get better in
college.
You know, in college, you pickyour major, you're gonna take a
bunch of courses in that areathat you really like and may not
have to take that many othercourses depending on the the
college, because of coursecurricula vary in colleges.
But then in grad school, it'sgonna get even better because
(23:35):
you're just gonna focus on thatone thing you love and that's
it.
And you know, you could be anexpert in one arcane area,
esoteric area of history orscience or art, and you can just
dive into that.
You don't have to take all thoseother courses.
So, and that is also reflectedin the application process,
(23:56):
right?
So, when you're applying tocollege as a high school
student, you're listing allthese activities.
You were on this club, youplayed this sport, you play this
musical instrument.
Colleges want to know all thestuff you do.
Um, and when you're applying tograd school, it's more laser
focused.
So colleges care about, youknow, the courses that you took
(24:17):
relevant to the area of studyyou're planning to study in in
grad school.
So I work with being apsychologist, I love working
with students who are futuremental health professionals.
They want to know, you know,what psych courses you took in
college.
If you took a bunch of artelectives, that's great, but
that's not really going to helpyou get into a psych program.
(24:39):
So, you know, it's those thosegrades and and courses related
to your intended area of studyin grad school.
It's the experience you have,the the work experience, um, in
the case of, say, you know,clinical psychology, clinical
work, research experience, andand those are the key things.
(25:00):
So it's pretty focused.
It's not all this other stuff ofwhat are your hobbies and stuff.
And that's all again alsoreflected in the the essay, so
to speak, typically called astatement of purpose or SOP or
something along those lines,where the students talking about
why I want to study, why do Iwant to study physics in grad
school, what's led me to thispoint, what do I want to focus
(25:21):
on in grad school?
How does that tie into mycareer?
So it's it's past, present, andfuture in terms of that area of
study and that career, not youknow, your all this other stuff
that you might talk about inessays applying to college.
SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
Uh that's really helpful.
And I love that that sort offunnel analogy, um, which which
might help drive some studentsthrough some of those gen ed
courses that are not theirfavorites in in college, but
seeing that down the line you'llyou'll really get to get better
and better.
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
And you can, you know, you can look for colleges
if if if you are sort of laserfocused, you can look for
colleges that have a more opencurriculum that don't have a lot
of gen ed requirements.
There are a handful of collegesthat have very few requirements
outside of your major, exceptfor typically a freshman English
class.
Um, whereas other colleges havea robust core curriculum, which
(26:21):
some students like.
There are also students who arelike, this is great.
I'm gonna get a liberal artseducation, a real solid
foundation.
Nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_03 (26:30):
And sometimes they discover something that they
never thought about and theylove.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I took courses in allkinds of stuff in college and
and discovered things, you justI don't remember how I randomly
took some anthropology coursesand I was like, this is really
interesting.
Um by the time I discovered Iwas already far along in being
an English major, but um, youknow, if I didn't have that
flexibility, I never would haveknown.
SPEAKER_03 (26:57):
Yeah, that's good.
There's another area that Ithink we would be negligent if
we didn't talk to you about, um,because it's something that all
of us everywhere are trying tocome to terms with, and that's
AI.
Um and how that is affecting umthe application process or
(27:20):
anything you know aboutstudents.
I mean, I think I may be wrong,and you'll correct me on this,
but I think students are kind ofgetting the message that it's
probably not the best thing tojust ask AI to write your essay,
um, your application essay, butbeyond, and if I'm wrong about
that, maybe that maybe they aredoing that uh exclusively, then
(27:43):
correct me.
But uh, how has it affected theprocess or how can they use it
productively?
What what's what's therelationship?
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
So that is a huge topic, and as you can imagine
these days, uh my colleagues andI are talking about this all the
time.
It is, you know, webinars andmeetings.
Uh it seems like past one to twoyears, it's all anyone can talk
about.
Uh so huge impacts, and let'skeep in mind the the it's on
(28:12):
both sides of the desk.
It isn't just students, collegesare using AI to evaluate
applications, to evaluatestudents who are applying to
college.
Um and in some cases, well, inmany cases, telling students you
can't use your your AI for yourapplication.
So it's it's a delicate umlandscape at the moment.
(28:37):
Uh but colleges have seenskyrocketing numbers of
applications, so they're turningto any number of tools,
including AI, to help evaluate.
It's not in place of humanbeings, it's to supplement what
human beings are doing in termsof looking at at um college
applications.
So it's it's on the other sidetoo.
(28:59):
And there are colleges that aretelling students everyone while
in college has to develop someAI.
Um what's the word?
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
Literacy.
SPEAKER_02 (29:10):
Literacy, yes, that's what I was looking for.
AI literacy.
So just like you know, before itwas computers, you have to have
basic understanding of computersto you know function in the
modern world.
Uh now it's AI.
Of course, there are collegeswhere you can major in
AI-related majors.
So it is absolutely beingembraced in some ways as a
(29:31):
useful tool.
Of course, you know, whenChatGPT came out, the big worry
is uh students are going to usethis to write their essays for
college.
And what are the implications ofthat?
Um, it's it's gottencomplicated.
Colleges, I think, in somecases, or whether it's the
application process or studentsin college courses looking for
(29:54):
ways to evaluate students wherethey can't lean on other tools,
like you know, a live interviewor asking students to write
things in class on the spotwhere they they can't use other
tools.
We certainly don't want studentsusing AI in their essays.
Um, it is this the essays aresupposed to be really personal,
(30:16):
really share something aboutyou, and AI can't replicate
that.
Um I've put it in my contractthat that students can't use
those kinds of tools whenthey're writing their essays.
Students have to sign off whenthey when they submit the common
app, that they haven't, that allof their work is their own.
So there's there's a lot ofreasons why students shouldn't.
(30:40):
But you know, students are infact using AI very regularly in
in mass numbers for a whole lotof things, including emotional,
social, emotional things.
That's kind of a companion,which is a whole other topic.
Uh, but they need to be reallythoughtful.
Yes, these tools can be reallyuseful in terms of organizing
(31:03):
your thoughts and providingstructure, kind of saying, hey,
gosh, I'm going into the collegeadmissions process and I have
all these tasks I need to do.
Ask me some questions to help meorganize my college admissions
plan.
So I could absolutely see usingAI to help you map out a plan.
Or, you know, I've got 15colleges in the Northeast that
(31:27):
I'm interested in in touring,help me come up with a plan, an
efficient way of visiting them,decide, you know, how many I
should visit per day, all thatstuff.
You can use it for all kinds ofthings.
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
Organization, that I mean, that makes sense to me,
that it could be a plus forthat.
SPEAKER_02 (31:43):
Yeah.
I I helped give a high schoolprincipal from another country a
tour of a bunch of colleges,including Curry, uh, several
years ago.
And I spent so many hourslooking at maps and figuring out
what's the most efficient way toget from point A to point B.
Now it would take you know oneminute from with AI.
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
That's true.
Um, let's see.
I am back to asking abouttrends.
I'm curious to know if you'veseen some trends involving or
about um students going takinggap year programs or students
(32:22):
doing um post-grad programs.
Do you see more flexibility withpart-time school?
You know, some of the you know,alternative ways to approach
school.
SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
Yeah, well, part-time, I'll just speak about
that real briefly, I think.
Um if students want to go tocollege part-time, a good option
is community college where youcan work part-time or full-time
and take one or two courses at atime and kind of dip your feet
in the water and and then takeas long as you need to to finish
(32:56):
your your associate's degree,and then maybe later transfer
somewhere else for thebachelor's if you want.
Um part-time education at afour-year college is is a lot
trickier.
You can sometimes get adisability waiver or
accommodation of being able tohave a reduced course load and
(33:20):
still get the benefits offull-time, but it is not a slam
dunk.
It's not something families orstudents can count on getting at
a four-year college.
It exists, but it's it's acollege-by-college basis.
So um, back to the gap here andpost-PG or post-grad question.
Uh, it's something I've been infavor of all along.
(33:43):
I think with the pandemic, yousaw more students leaning into
it.
Like, hey, I don't want Zoomschool in college, I don't enjoy
it in in high school, so I'mgonna take a year off and wait
for things to settle down.
So I think I think that drovesome of the growth in gap year
options, but there's benefitsfor students across the board.
(34:06):
I I love it when students areopen to gap years.
I encourage students to considerit.
What I find is that a lot ofstudents rule it out right off
the bat.
Nope, not interested.
I want to go straight tocollege.
My friends are going straight tocollege.
I don't want to take a gap year.
I think sometimes they justdon't understand what a gap year
means because it could meanalmost anything.
(34:26):
It could mean writing a novel,it could mean um working
full-time, it could be travelingaround the country, or if you
need help becoming more collegeready, it could be mean going to
a PG or gap year program,specifically for neurodivergent
students, to build collegereadiness, social skills,
(34:47):
academic readiness, executivefunction skills.
And that's true for a lot of ourstudents.
A lot of our students could usethat extra year, an extra year
of working on those skills sothat when they get to college,
going back to my you know, ourvery first topic, they can they
can stay in and graduate and notdrop out because uh they weren't
(35:08):
ready.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Lots of good information here.
SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
And I'm seeing more gap year and PG year programs
come online.
Yes.
Um, of course, curry being a oneexample, but uh you know, I do
sort of keep tabs on thoseprograms.
Sometimes students will go to aprogram that isn't technically a
gap year program, but sort ofworks as a gap year program, a
program for neurodivergentstudents, whether they're in
(35:34):
college or going to collegelater.
So there's a lot of options outthere in addition to the sort of
official gap year programs.
SPEAKER_03 (35:42):
And and is it true that some students may take, may
get, may apply to college, beaccepted, and then decide to
take a gap year program.
They defer so that they know atthe end of their gap year they
have a place.
Yes.
Um and other students mightchoose to do the opposite, to do
(36:03):
the gap year and then applybecause they're going to be
able, they're going to be betterready, and perhaps their
admission packet may lookdifferent.
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (36:12):
Yeah, good point, Vicky.
I uh I love to see studentsapply in senior year when they
can, um, but there aresituations, as you mentioned,
where they are better offwaiting.
I'm working with a student rightnow who's high school senior,
she's not planning to apply.
Uh, she didn't apply duringsenior year.
She's gonna do a gap year.
She has two interests, and she'sgonna split up her gap year to
(36:37):
explore both of these interestsso that when it comes time to
apply, she'll have a bettersense of what am I going to
college to study?
And she's gonna be more focusedwhen she gets to college, and
it's gonna help her inform hercollege list.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Yeah.
And I suppose a student whoapplies and defers, uh, you're
not locked in.
You could you could reapplysomewhere else.
And right.
SPEAKER_02 (37:01):
Um you do put down a deposit and you are telling the
college that I'm gonna enroll ina year.
Um, and you know, sorry,colleges, but it is it is true
that a college that a studentcould say, you know what, during
that gap year, I discovered thatI actually want to major in
something else that that collegedoesn't offer.
So I'm rescinding my, you know,I'm backing out of that.
(37:24):
You might lose the deposit, andof course the college would be
disappointed, but sure, you youcan do that.
SPEAKER_03 (37:29):
It's probably less less common that that way.
SPEAKER_02 (37:32):
Yeah, I haven't seen it a lot, but it's nice to know
that that you're you're not, asyou said, absolutely locked in.
SPEAKER_03 (37:37):
Right.
Um so you have given us so manypieces of advice and that
parents can take and studentscan take, and and there's you
know, discover how much isinvolved.
If you had to give one piece ofadvice to the parents of a
student whose first child, or Ihate to say child, the first kid
(38:02):
is going off to college.
What what would one be one thingyou would really want them to
know or think about?
SPEAKER_02 (38:10):
Yeah, I mean, there are so many.
SPEAKER_03 (38:13):
I know that you see you don't like my double
questions while I'm asking.
SPEAKER_02 (38:17):
But I I I I will I'll, you know, for for this
this round, what I'll go with isYou can have a couple.
You know, we parents often focusa lot on the name of the
college.
You know, can my kid get into anIvy League school or you know, a
NISCAC school or or some schoolthat that we think has a good
reputation because we thinkthat's gonna help them, you
(38:39):
know, have a great career and agreat life if they go to a
so-called good college.
So the the piece of advice is tohelp your child realize that
it's more about what they do incollege than where they go.
And so start thinking about whatare some of the things you
should really be working on incollege to set yourself up for a
(39:02):
successful experience in collegeand after college, such as
finding a mentor, connectingwith a professor or someone else
in college who can take youunder their wing and help you.
Maybe it's somebody in thecareer center.
Uh, by all means, take advantageof the resources like the career
center, counseling center, thetutoring center to get the most
(39:26):
out of you know, those bigtuition bucks you're spending.
Do something experiential likestudy abroad, get an internship.
Not you don't have to pick one.
Employers love to seeinternships.
Um, I didn't do study abroadtechnically when I was in
college, but I did spend sometime in South America.
(39:47):
And after I graduated college,that was like the one thing
employers wanted to talk about.
What were you doing in Columbia?
Tell me about that.
So, you know, do somethinginteresting and different in
college, both to, you know, it'sgonna be a great experience for
you, but it's also gonna helpmake you more appealing to
employers.
So there's a variety of thingsthat that research has shown
(40:08):
helps you have a more successfulmake college be be
life-changing, as it were.
Um, versus thinking like if mykid can just get into this
college, then everything willfall into place.
SPEAKER_03 (40:21):
Yeah, good advice.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
I don't want you to leave before I ask this one last
this question.
Um, and I am really curious.
Um I want to know if you couldtalk a little bit about the book
that you wrote with twocolleagues about about adults,
um, older autistic adults.
And I'm I'm asking because Ithink many of our parents would
(40:44):
be really interested.
Um, there aren't there's notthat much information out there.
SPEAKER_02 (40:48):
Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why we wrote it.
Of course, we're we're reallyshifting gears here away from
the world.
SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
I know, a total shift.
SPEAKER_02 (40:55):
From teenagers to to the parents, yeah, to older
autistic adults.
Um, we those of us who arewriting the book were over 50
ourselves, uh-huh, and uh and wesurveyed 150 over age 50
autistic adults around theworld, primarily the US and the
(41:15):
UK.
Um, and we just got the word outand distributed the survey.
It was a long survey, a lot ofquestions.
So gave us just a very richsource of material to draw on,
to quote people who who filledout the survey, as well as you
know, some summaries of what wecould gather from the survey.
For example, you know, over 80%of folks reported um having felt
(41:43):
that they were bullied in as achild growing up.
Um, the vast majority, almosteveryone in the study, didn't
get diagnosed with autism untilafter age 40.
So if you were growing up backthen, before autism was so
widely diagnosed and widelyunderstood, uh, so many people
(42:03):
flew under the radar and didn'tfigure it out until they were
adults.
And a lot of people had theexperience of like, wow, this
explains so much.
Now I understand myself, Iunderstand why people have
reacted to me the way they havethroughout my life.
Um, so really interestinginterviews.
Um, and as you said, there's solittle written.
(42:26):
You know, I I did a literaturesearch as part of preparing to
write the book.
And when I found articles on thetopic, every article I found,
and there weren't many, saidthere's not much research on
this topic.
That was the conclusion of mostof the handful of articles I I
found.
And uh, you know, Tony Atwood,who's one of the world experts
(42:49):
on uh what is used to be calledAsperger Syndrome, uh, who wrote
um the forward for the book umhas sort of helped promote the
book because he says, you know,there's there's just so little
on this topic.
SPEAKER_00 (43:05):
I would agree.
I'm thrilled that you did it.
So you've told us a lot aboutthe book, but tell us the title.
SPEAKER_02 (43:12):
Oh, it's called Older Artistic Adults.
Oh, okay.
Older artistic adults in theirown Yeah.
Okay.
Go ahead and uh No, no, you weregonna say Oh, yeah, older
artistic adults in their ownwords, the lost generation.
It's kind of a long title, butif you look for older artistic
adults on Amazon or whatever,okay, we will link to we'll link
to it in the show notes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:32):
Yeah.
And you know, you said this isreally uh pivoting away from you
know talking to teenagers, butit occurs to me that um some of
the parents that are listeningto this, because they have
perhaps an autistic um child inhigh school getting ready for
college or or in college, umtheir child is going to become
(43:55):
an autistic adult.
And so parents may be interestedin knowing what's down the road.
SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
Um and and it's yeah, and I think there's uh a
big genetic component.
So some of the parents areautistic themselves and don't
know it.
And I'm not in the business ofdiagnosing, you know, I'm a
psychologist, so I used todiagnose people, but I'm not
diagnosing my students or theirparents.
But there's a lot ofneurodivergent parents.
Some of them know it, some ofthem tell me, you know, I have
(44:24):
ADHD or I think I have ADHD orautism.
Other ones, I have a sense thatthey're neurodivergent.
Um, but you know, they can theycan explore that on their own.
SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
So there's a there are a lot of reasons per people
might be interested in the book,either for themselves or
thinking uh about the future.
We all get over there and child.
SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
And there's a lot of concern about you know the the
so called services cliff whenwhen kids reach twenty one,
twenty two.
Depending on the state wherewhere the huge amount of support
they had in the K-12 system justkind of vanishes overnight.
SPEAKER_03 (45:00):
Yeah.
Um, so we often like to and welike to pick people's brains
about books.
Um I'm wondering if there areany books, one or two that you
any other books uh besides yoursthat you recommend for students
and or parents as they're goingthrough uh the application
(45:24):
process or as they are incollege.
SPEAKER_02 (45:29):
Um yeah, I mean uh on I want to give a shout out to
a book that just came out,Neurodiversity Affirming
Schools.
I think it's a it's a greatpotential guide for schools to
become more inclusive.
That's Emily Kircher Morris andAmanda Morin.
(45:52):
Um, but that's not so much forparents unless they happen to
work in the educational system.
Um so Jeff Solingo's books arereally good, like Dream School
is his latest.
SPEAKER_03 (46:04):
Um Who Gets In and Why and Why, right.
SPEAKER_02 (46:10):
And then there's an older book, Frank Bruni, uh
Where You Go is Not Who You WhoYou Are or Who You'll Be.
SPEAKER_04 (46:19):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
Um So Good Stuff.
But yeah, but Jeff Slingo'sbooks really help sort of break
down with with data, especiallyDream School, the latest one,
um, kind of what is thedifference between these
different tiers of schools?
And some interesting findingsthat in some regards you're not
seeing a lot of difference inthe outcomes, whether it's the
(46:40):
sort of lesser-known schools orthe highly selective schools.
In some areas, the differenceswere minimal or or you know
non-existent.
Um, I should say, you know, wewere talking briefly about
highly selective schools andname brand schools.
For a subset of students,students who are marginalized,
(47:02):
first generation, students ofcolor, some of them will get a
real benefit from if they canget into a highly selective
school because it opens the doorto networks that their families
don't have access to compared toprivileged families.
But for students who alreadycome from a privileged
background, uh, it doesn't, it'sit's not really a game changer
(47:24):
to the same degree.
SPEAKER_03 (47:26):
Yep.
That's I I as you were talkingearlier about that one piece of
advice, and not to go by name, Icouldn't, you know, I couldn't
agree more, and I couldn't helpbut think of Dream School,
Salingo's book.
So those are all several good.
SPEAKER_02 (47:43):
Yeah, and I worked with a student uh a couple years
ago, a pro bonus student who hadum a physical disability, um
came was a student of color andcame from an extremely
impoverished background, uh verycomplicated family situation,
single parent, um, parent didn'teven speak English, parent was
(48:05):
on disability herself.
Um the student got into IvyLeague schools as well as other
highly selective schools, and Ithink for him it could be
life-changing to walk into thatenvironment given where he came
from.
But but students who are comingfrom successful privileged
families um have the resourcesto be successful uh at a wide
(48:27):
range of colleges.
SPEAKER_03 (48:29):
Yeah.
Keep all the doors open asyou're thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (48:34):
Yeah, and and so many of our students, as we've
discussed, need that higherlevel of support, those robust
learning support programs orautism support programs that are
very hard to come by in highlyselective schools.
They tend to be at schools, someof the flagship state
universities have them, a wholebunch of big, big state
(48:55):
universities have those supportprograms, and then a number of
really small private collegeshave them too.
Not so many highly selectiveprivate colleges.
SPEAKER_03 (49:05):
Lots of food for thought for parents and students
to think about.
This is a wonderfulconversation, and uh, you know,
as so often happens, we could goon and on.
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (49:18):
Thanks for reininging me in.
SPEAKER_00 (49:20):
Well, we're thrilled that you came and that you
shared lots of information withus.
So thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03 (49:29):
So um, if if people want to find you, um where where
do they go?
Where do they look?
SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
Look at topcollegeconsultants.com or
email me at ericeric attopcollegeconsultants.com.
SPEAKER_03 (49:46):
Okay.
So we will put all of that inthe show notes and some of the
other things that you've talkedabout in that database.
Um, so thank you so much fortaking time to meet with us
today.
So, to everyone, thank you forlistening and staying with us if
you are still here to the bitterend.
(50:07):
And we will see you next time.
SPEAKER_04 (50:09):
Bye bye.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com