EP504: Darryl Stickel, PhD - The Truth About Trust - Conversations with Kris

Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
I am positively Chris Pace and you are actively listening to
conversation with Chris. Hey, Chris.
Hey, Darrell, how are you? I'm doing all right.
How are you, man? Oh man, I couldn't be any
better. If I was, I think there'd be.
Two of. Me nice it's a nice day here in
Florida. I don't know where you are, but
it's nice and cool for us now, so.

(00:33):
I am diagonally across the continent from you.
I'm in Victoria, BC off the WestCoast of Canada.
Oh wow, I was just in Alberta last week.
Nice. Yeah, too cold and dry for me.
I couldn't breathe. Yeah.
It's a totally different environment from here.
And I was told that it's something like Siberia or Sahara

(00:54):
as far as like the the dryness. And I certainly felt it because,
you know, I'm used to being at sea level where the oxygen is
plenty. Well, you got lots of humidity
as well, right? That's exactly.
I was so happy to get back to the humidity.
I've never been so glad. I was like, oh good, here we go,
moisture. Nice.

(01:15):
Though it was cool though, it was a beautiful place up there.
I mean certainly thought it at the right time with fall.
Got to see all the leaves changing, Calgary and Edmonton
and then the red something. Red Deer.
Red Deer. That's it.
Yep, that's. Right in between.
Yep, that's where we stayed and it was a beautiful lake.
Did you? Go to Lake Louise.

(01:38):
No, it was, man. I can't remember now.
It'll come back to me though. But it's right there by Red Deer
and it's one of the popular lakes with a beach and it had a
water park and all that kind of stuff.
And Sylvan. Sylvan Lake.
Sylvan Lake, yeah. So they lived on the lake, some
friends of mine, and so I had never been up there and thought

(01:59):
I'd give it a go. And I had to go be in AUFC
Fighter's Corner because he needed a breath coach and a
focus coach. So being a grandmaster of
meditation and yoga, they found me and asked me to come up.
And I said sure, The guy has trouble turning off the fight
when he's done. And I basically put together an

(02:21):
activation deactivation protocolthat I could use for him to
hypnotize him, if you will, into, you know, coming back into
the peaceful state. And it worked great.
He loved it. So I'm going to be in something
different, you know, something new, I guess.

(02:42):
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I was a fighter for
years before I found yoga. And so I'm glad that I'm able to
utilize, you know, the yoga to help fighters.
And I didn't, I didn't even think that that would be how I
thought, more like the meditation and the breath work,
that thing. But you know, obviously as a
fighter there, a lot of them getinto that mentality of all

(03:03):
right, I got to kill this guy, you know, and then they don't
know how to shut it off. And so I do that so I can help
them with that. You do similar things with vets.
I do have an 5O1C3 nonprofit forveterans called Vets to Yoga,
and I actually have a huge app and a big network of people
right now working with me. And I actually have the solution

(03:27):
to end veteran suicide because I'm 100% disabled vet myself.
But I found yoga, found meditation, found the, the
things that are really importantin life and it's helped me to to
keep myself out of a wheelchair to also help me to keep myself
sane. And, and now I have this entire
laid out plan to, to fix veteransuicide.
The problem is I don't think that they really want to fix it.

(03:50):
I don't think they want all the veterans united and healthy
because that would be a real bigproblem for any administration
that doesn't though we don't agree with.
So I think they're trying to keep us divided and trying to
keep us drugged up. And so I'll, we'll see how it
goes, but I may have to do it from overseas so that, you know,
I could, I don't want to be a target.

(04:12):
Yeah. So can I ask you a really
difficult question given that we've just met?
Yeah. What was your take on the speech
to the generals? Oh, I don't that was it
recently. Yeah, heck, Seth and Trump were
talking to the generals, talkingabout using the troops on the
local population as training exercise.

(04:34):
On the local population as a training exercise, that doesn't
sound like a good thing at all. I mean, I don't believe the
troops should be used on the local population period.
But obviously these situation inorgans kind of gotten a little
out of control and seems like there's somebody needs to put
some low on order back in that place 'cause I never seen

(04:55):
anything like it. I mean, you know, it's people
are just in a different place intheir minds these days.
And I don't really personally care what anyone believes or
wants to do with themselves. I just don't think that we
should all be forced to do the to agree with it or to
acknowledge it. You know, that's not not my
place to do that. You know, if you want to play

(05:16):
pretend or make believe, then make believe.
There's no issue with me. I mean, I have no problem with
it, but don't don't get mad at me because I don't call you by
the right pronoun, you know, like.
That's fair. Yeah, I'm right.
I'm right there with you. Yeah.
So, I mean, it's like to me, it's, you know, but these
people, you know, trying to stoptraffic and stop, you know,
literally trying to end or stop society from functioning, you

(05:40):
know, it's just unfortunate because that's what I fought
for. I want people to have the
freedom to do as they please. But I think it should be within
the law, you know what I mean? Like, I think you still have to
abide by the law. That's all.
I mean, I'm all for immigration.I just think that you should
have to check some IDs before you come in.
Nobody, nobody opens their frontand back door at night and just
lets people come sleep in our house without, you know, talking

(06:02):
to them. Yeah.
I mean, the idea of that just makes no sense to me.
Why would we just allow people to walk in here and take over?
And then plus, they get paid more than I do as a disabled
vet. And I sacrificed everything for
this country. So it's a, you know, a little, a
little frustrating when you see people from other places getting
more money, more benefits and more luxuries than the guys that

(06:24):
actually fought for this countrythat they're coming to.
And so, but again, for me, I am,I see, I see both sides and I
understand the prospectus from either side and I see why
liberals are liberals and I understand why conservatives are
conservative. And I have to say that, you
know, I kind of agree with both and disagree with both.

(06:45):
So I don't think there's any right way for anything to be
done. I think it's more we're one of
those countries where it's always going to go back and
forth and it's always going to be one of those, you know, waves
of red and then waves of blue. And we went through, you know,
what, 8 years with Obama and then the Biden and whoever it
was that was our president. I don't know who it was, but,

(07:09):
you know, everybody kept their cool, you know, there wasn't any
chaos, you know, stuff like that.
And so that's the thing that's different to me is that that
other side seems to acknowledge and honor, you know, rioting and
looting and, you know, even criminals and they like, praise
them. And I'm, I'm confused by that

(07:29):
because I just don't know why orwhat that mentality is.
But I also think that the media is going to feed us whatever
they want us to know. So I really don't have no
interest in that. It's propaganda.
I know what they do. I know what we did in the
military and we certainly did the same thing in the other
countries. So I know that they're doing it
to us. You know, it's anything they can

(07:50):
do to divide us into more categories, right?
Divided. We don't stand.
We're not strong. We have to be united.
So they've come up with new stuff and new terminology just
to divide us even further, whichI my my big my big hang up on
one of them is the binary non binary.

(08:10):
Oh yeah. Because once you become non
binary, now you just created a binary non binary, which is
another binary system. And so.
Right. Yeah.
So you jumped out of one binary into another binary.
But, you know, it doesn't have to make sense to me.
It actually makes sense to them.Whatever they want to do is on
them, you know, just as long as they keep within the law on the

(08:32):
boundaries of what our country was built on, you know, And
that's kind of, well, what we fought for as a country and what
I would still fight for to this day.
So I'm not sure what that context is about, you know,
practicing on the civilians, butit doesn't seem like a logical
concept at all. So there's plenty, plenty of

(08:53):
other people in the world that are bad.
I don't think we need to be going after our own.
But I don't know. I don't actually follow enough
politics to know. But I do know Canada has some
real interesting politics going on.
We do, yeah. There's disagreements.
There's, you know, but healthy debate, right?
Which is how we survive. Right.

(09:14):
Right. I had somebody say once, you're
right to swing your arms. You have the right to swing your
arms, but you're right to swing your arms.
Ends up my nose. That's right.
That's right. Right.
Yep. I actually heard there's a
comedian out there, and he says,you know, the first thing that
we wrote was you can say whatever you want in America.

(09:35):
The second thing we wrote was but you better have a gun.
And I thought it was such a classic comedy thing because
he's like, you know, have all the things we could have wrote.
The second thing we wrote was you better have a gun.
And it was like, you're allowed to say whatever you want, but
you better have a gun. Yeah.
So, you know, I mean, it just shows the priority of the nation

(09:57):
and why we stay free because as long as the population holds
weapons, which I understand in Canada, they've already like
outlawed all handguns and you have to, I mean, and that to me
just I'm beside myself. I'm like, you guys live in the
wild, Wild West of the great white N, you know, like it's,

(10:17):
it's animals and you know, all kinds of things up there.
And I'm just, I don't see why a handgun's any different than a
rifle. And then here we're trying to
get, they're trying to get rid of rifles, but you know, it's
never going to happen. Who's going to go collect them?
9 million veterans living in America, all of which are armed.
They're not going to turn over their weapons.

(10:38):
You know, that's never going to happen.
So, well, I even discussed this.There's no way to.
Get well, they're not just armed, but they're trained as
well, right? Exactly.
And we know how to not only use them, but we also know how to
hide them. Right.
Everybody I know has lost all their weapons in a boating
accident. It's a shame.

(10:59):
And so, yeah, no, we, we already, as far as veterans are
concerned, we died for our country when we went to war.
Whether we come back or not, we gave our lives.
And so we're happy to do it again, especially if it's on our
terms and on our turf, You know,So I don't think you can beat 9
million vets. And we're all, you know, that's
the other thing. We all come together and unite.

(11:19):
There is no more Democrat and Republican Party.
There's only going to be the Patriotic Party of veterans,
which might be the future of thecountry.
I don't know. I certainly don't want to be the
head of it. I just have the foresight and
the vision to see how to fix a simple problem that nobody else
seems to have the ability to fix.
And to me, it's very easy. It's very easy, but I got to be

(11:44):
able to get in front of the right people.
And then they've got to accept the offer and give it a shot and
let it happen. But they give me one year and
1000 troops leaving the militaryand $15 million.
And I'll prove to them that I can give them back 1000 troops
that are now civilians that are well adjusted and well adapted.
But also it'll make them loyal to the person who helped them,

(12:04):
you know, And that's kind of where I think that could become
a sticky issue for the government.
So I try and stay away from the politics side of things as much
as possible and keep myself on positive, healthy, how I can
help others, information and that's about all I can do in the
world, right? Yeah, have you ever read Robert
Hyndland, Starship Trooper? Sounds familiar, but no, I don't

(12:29):
think so. OK, there's an interesting
concept that he floats, which isbasically that everyone lives
their lives normally, but to have a the right to vote, you
actually have to serve. Yeah.
Because they came to believe that those who served actually
had the ability to put the welfare of the group ahead of
themselves. That's right.

(12:51):
That's right. And that the caveat there was
that they made it so that anyonecould serve.
So if you were disabled, they found a way for you to still
serve. Nice.
Yeah, no, but. Yeah, and I thought it was
actually a profoundly solid idea.
Yeah, I agree. I agree because I've had

(13:13):
conversations with people who are adamant about things that
they have no idea, you know whatthey're talking about.
And I'm like, how are you debating with someone who went
and did serve the country, defended the country, protected
the country, responded the life of the country, and then you're
going to stay on a soapbox at 22years old.
You weren't even alive in 2001. So you don't even know what it's

(13:37):
like to experience some sort of conflict or tragedy in America.
So they've, they've grown up in a peaceful society for a long
time. And those people are the ones
that are shouting that, you know, Palestine is good and
that, you know, we should let everybody in the daughters and
that we should, you know, take care of the criminals and all
that. Yeah.
But like, what have you done to contribute to have that voice?

(14:00):
Yeah. And I mean that's.
My son just joined the Navy. Oh, really?
The Canadian Navy, yeah. Wow.
That's and I couldn't be prouder.
Yeah, Oh yeah, That's really cool.
I I actually learned a lot aboutthe military up in Canada while
I was there. The Legion and OK yeah, the
whole situation, I didn't have any.
I didn't even know Canada had a military.

(14:21):
It was like. We've got a really proud
military history, actually, Chris.
That's what at least I sounded like that.
And so for very long, I saw a lot of memorials, a lot of, you
know, like, very proud of their people up there.
And that's really good to me. But however, I also heard that
you could get fined $20,000 for hate speech online and I don't

(14:41):
know what that means. It's not clearly defined, right?
And it's gone too far. I know one of my one of my son's
former friends was on about defunding the police and all
this kind of stuff. And I said what that guy doesn't
understand is the only reason hehas anything is because there's
people that are protecting him. Because if there were no laws,

(15:05):
no police, he'd be the first onein line to get his ticket
punched. That's right, exactly.
Right. Nobody has any gratitude or
respect or or out of meration for those that give everything
every day. And you know what, As I tell
people every day, when they see me walking with a cane or, you
know, getting out of a car slowly in a handicap spot, I

(15:26):
tell them, hey, freedom isn't free and I'm still paying for it
every single day. And that's we all gave our life.
Some of us were just unfortunateenough to come back and have to
struggle through the remaining day and try and find some
balance. And you know, I, I for years I
didn't understand why me, you know, why didn't I get to go
like everybody else, like a hero?

(15:46):
But now I realize that I've had a mission and a purpose for a
long time that I have to do accomplish.
And it's my job to be here and to have to go through everything
I've gone through and also, you know, change the lives and and
make the world a better place for those coming behind us.
Because, you know, we can't all die.
Some of us have to come back andactually, you know, continue to

(16:07):
live. And since I switched.
Still got work to do. Yep, still got work to do.
And I I'd say it all the time, Ididn't come this far just to
come this far. There has to be a reason and a
purpose why I'm still here because it doesn't make any
sense otherwise. I said, I challenge the, the
rules and laws of nature multiple times over again.
And I'm still here. So I've got to believe there's

(16:30):
and now it's, you know, it's kind of somewhat coming to
fruition. You know, I've got a song for my
brother who just recently passedaway at 44 years old, my little
brother. And the song was written by a
Canadian who I went to see in Alberta.
And now it's up for a Grammy Award because it's such a
beautiful and amazing song. And I couldn't be prouder, you
know, to have my brother's voiceheard and his name still carried

(16:53):
on after his death. And, you know, just.
But then the song became more than that.
It became, you know, a song about all brothers, including
brothers in arms. And basically, it's a song for
anyone who's ever lost anyone too soon.
And it's been hit. It's been downloaded over a
million times right now, which Idon't know if there's anything
more flattering in the world or more, you know, a gratifying

(17:16):
than to have a song that was written for you and your brother
as a as a tribute. Really, I didn't expect for it
to come out so amazing, but thisartist just crushed it and
created a mastermind. So I would be shocked if it
doesn't win the Grammy. I think it's going to buy a
shot. It's such a good song.

(17:38):
And I'm it doesn't matter to me if whether it does or doesn't.
It's more about the fact that people are listening to it, that
it's helping people and that people are enjoying the song but
also connecting with it. And so that's what.
Can you send me a link to it? Yeah.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to.
I'd love to. I.
Appreciate. The feedback, it's certainly
something that I'm very proud ofand, you know, I'm excited that

(18:01):
people are into it and interested in it.
And so it's a, it's a special song.
It really is. Wow.
That's powerful. They saw that to you because I
love you. Hear it.
I I can't seem to get it out to enough people fast enough.
I feel like I'm always trying toget it out there more and more.

(18:22):
And I have quite a reach with myfollowing.
But at the same time, you know, there's the world's a big place.
I've been to 55 countries and I've gone around the globe
twice. And tell you what, boy, it's,
it's a really big place out there.
It's, it's hard to get this stuff to everybody.
You know, you need a couple distribution networks to get it
to go on. So anybody you know, that's in

(18:44):
the music business or anybody you can share with that's that's
in need of a encouraging song, please do.
And yeah. And I'd love to hear your
feedback on it as well. So I'm I'm legally blind.
The only way I can serve is I give pro bono workshops to the
Navy here in Victoria. Trust and leadership.

(19:06):
Now legally blind, meaning you can't see it all, or meaning you
can't drive a car. I can't drive a car.
I have limited vision. I tell people I can see a couple
of feet. Usually they're my own.
You can see that far down. Well, you know that's good,
right, like as long as you can see your feet.
I mean that's there's days I can't see very far at all.

(19:29):
So you know, I I can't imagine that though, but I like that
line. I'd have to definitely get that
one from you if. There's somebody else that's I'm
usually in trouble, Chris. It was a.
If there's somebody else's, I'm usually in trouble.
Yeah, that's a good point. I can tell that you've been
faced with this for quite some time because you definitely have

(19:51):
the the right mentality about it.
I mean, you know, if life isn't funny, then I don't know what
you're going to do because it certainly has to be taken as a.
You know, I tell people all the time, don't take life too
seriously. You're never going to get out
alive. Right.
And then couldn't be more, you know, I don't know if he knows,
but they're probably not becauseyou can't see, but I can't hear.

(20:14):
I have to wear hearing aids at 47 years old.
I walk with a cane and I, you know, I've got glasses now and
I'm, you know, my vision's going.
So traumatic brain injuries do alot of things to your body and
to your mind that you know, you never really can fix.
They just kind of are what they are.
And so you have to navigate through them and do the best you
can. But you know, I've found ways to

(20:37):
to be able to communicate. I don't read and write very
well, but I certainly can speak.And so the podcast turned out to
be a great thing. And now I'm in 80 countries,
which is mind blowing to me because I had no idea that there
were eighty countries that even listened to any podcast in
English. I'm like, that's a lot of
questions, but grateful for the opportunity and I'm glad people

(21:00):
are are listening because the day they stop listening is the
day I get to go retire on the beach and my purpose must be
fulfilled. So certainly wish it would come
sooner than later, but at the same time I accept my purpose
and I will continue to to do what I got to do until it's
done. We are kindred spirits, brother.

(21:20):
Absolutely we are. We're both champions is what we
are. We're overcoming the obstacles
that are in front of us as opposed to allowing those
obstacles to shut us down and keep us from accomplishing
things. And as I was reading through
your information, man, you've got a heck of a story.
I'm so excited to hear about it.Yeah.
Duke. Wow.

(21:44):
Stop there. Duke.
Wow. It's amazing.
So it's. I love what you're doing, too.
I think it's absolutely, like anessential thing.
And I had not really ever kind of put into those words what
you're doing, But it's, I mean, it's effectively, you know,
probably the most important thing that we could actually be

(22:05):
teaching and helping people withis trust.
And and that's something that, you know, is not an easy thing
for people. So you're fighting an uphill
battle just like I am, make you try and do attempt to change the
world and make it a better place.
And, you know, kudos to you. I'm sure that after your success
in life, you could you you got the ability to go lie on a beach

(22:25):
and sit my ties just like I do. But unfortunately or for
fortunately, we're still sittingout here fighting the good
fight, right? We we can't can't get away from
them. I know not.
Done yet? I'm not done yet.
I I, I've started something called the aspiring men's
program, trying to teach young men how to build better
relationships. And, you know, they're the

(22:51):
statistics around young men right now are really bad.
They are 80% of suicides are young men.
Their mental health ratings are in the toilet.
Their performance in, you know, all the key indicators are down
and they're not doing well. They're not thriving.

(23:12):
And so I think one of the ways to help solve that is to help
them build stronger connection, more resilient relationships.
And that's what I'm focused on. I agree 100%.
And I think that, you know, that's an epidemic in our
country here and probably the rest of the world actually.
You know, I mean, we've got boysgrowing into men who are not

(23:34):
allowed to tell people how they feel.
They were taught that you're weak if you show emotion, you
know, all the wrong things. And it's just as a shame that
these young men and, you know, especially the veterans coming
back from war and that kind of thing.
And, you know, 22 to 44 suicidesa day in America amongst

(23:57):
veterans. And that's every day we're
losing that many people. And it's like they're, these are
young men who gave their life for this country, but they come
back and they have no, they don't fit in and they don't want
to talk about it because they don't, nobody will understand
them even if they did. And so they they get stuck and
then our system's broken. And, you know, it just

(24:19):
perpetuates the same misery and loneliness.
And, you know, I'm sure you've experienced when you're on your
own with nobody to turn to, things can seem pretty hopeless.
And so it's my goal to inspire and give those people something
to believe in, mostly themselves, but you know, also

(24:40):
just a, and even a concept or anidea that you know what, you
just never know what's coming around the corner and you never
really know what's going to be next.
And I, I, when I suffered my brain injury in 99, it was
probably the worst thing that could have ever happened to me
because it eliminated me from a lot of opportunities.
But here I stand 25 years later,and it's the greatest thing that

(25:03):
ever happened to me because it put me on the path that I'm on
now, which is really making a difference in the world.
So you just never know, right? The Chinese farmer story, you
just never know what the outcomes are going to be long
term. So you can't say whether good or
bad because I don't look at terms of getting bad or look at
it as fun or educational. And that's how I see life is one

(25:28):
or the other. You're going to learn something
and you're going to have a good time.
But either way, it's not a bad thing.
So I certainly have adopted thatmentality and that's kind of
pushed me through all the hard times and all the struggles and
finding my way into being a champion and not a victim,
right? They let everything that happens

(25:49):
in life keep them from being successful.
And the Champions let everythingthat happens to him in life be a
stepping stone for becoming successful.
But it's not easy, right? We still have to wake up.
We still have to struggle with our our things and we still have
to make the mental choice to be positive and then on top of it,

(26:09):
carry the weight of the world onour shoulders as we try to lift
people up along the way. And I'm sure for you, it's the
same way where you get home and you're just drained and depleted
of your energy because you've given it away all the time And
so you have to recharge. And they say iron sharpens iron,
right? So you have to be around other
people who are sharing the same mindset, have the same goals in

(26:33):
life and are, you know, trying to achieve things otherwise
you're never going to get back the energy you give out.
But also meditation. Meditation is amazing for
recharging. What I've learned.
Oh, man, I can't, I wish I couldteach to everybody right now
because it's, you know, I tell people all the time meditating
is taking yourself on a date andand then I go, would you invite

(26:57):
yourself on a second date? And about 90% of the people I
asked that say absolutely not Bryce.
And I'm like, well, there you go.
That's why that's why nobody else wants a date either.
So it's like you got to get comfortable with you, you know,
you got to be comfortable with who you are.
You got to love everything aboutyour life because it's what made

(27:18):
you who you are today. If any one of those things
didn't exist, you would not be the person you are.
So it's right. It's so essential that we love
ourselves, but you also have to be grateful for everything, even
the molestation, the abuse, the whatever it was that you know,
people had to go through in their lives.
You have to be grateful because all those are the pieces of the

(27:39):
puzzle that came together to make you the person you are
today. And that's the only way you can
yourself. So I agree with you.
I think the the young men are are definitely our focal point
we need to really pay attention to because they seem to be the
ones that are that are getting the the short end of the stick
even more and more every year, every generation.

(27:59):
And they're lost. Everything about human mankind
as a man has been taken away from.
I mean, we no longer have the strong survive.
We no longer have to go fightingfor, for, for our footage, for
our, our food. We don't get to provide the way
that we used to. We don't get to protect the way

(28:19):
we used to, you know, and now they're taking away our ability
to do anything right. I mean, you can get in trouble
for defending yourself, which is, yeah, I don't even
understand, you know, like it's that's.
And then on top of it, you know,the Me Too movement took away a
lot of men's confidence. And so there's, you know, now
everybody's afraid to do anything or be around anybody

(28:42):
because of the fact that there were a lot of people that just
jumped on the bandwagon and werelike, yeah, yeah, me too, you
know. And it was like, yeah, is it
really, you know, like, I'm not saying that everybody's not
telling the truth. But also let's be honest, people
are quick to jump on a bandwagon, especially if it's
something that fits a attention grabbing idea.

(29:04):
Yeah, yeah. Well, and we're not great at
thinking about the long term consequences of our actions.
No, you're right about that. People do not actually think
about that. Have people understood the power
of their words and how much it affects another person and can
destroy another person or createthem?
Yeah. I'd rather be punched in the

(29:25):
face and let that heal in a few days than have somebody verbally
assault me and then, you know, for the rest of my life I'm
questioning myself or I put doubt it seeds out and then it
puts, you know, the next. It's just a downward spiral of
and you're right, nobody thinks about anything long term
anymore. I don't think people pay
attention to the fact that thereis a long game.

(29:48):
Life is a marathon, not a Sprint, that's for sure.
Yeah. The way that there's nice
synergies is your focus is is self and awareness and my focus
is more around the relationship with other.
There's a powerful combination there.
Absolutely 'cause you and it's, it's I like that you said that

(30:10):
because for a Sri Swami in India, which is who signed my
paperwork, those are the highestand most regarded people in
India as far as their beliefs. And what Swami means in Sanskrit
is one who knows thyself. And what Sri means in Sanskrit

(30:31):
is one who knows God or source. So a Sri Swami is 1 who's in
alignment with source, but also knows themself.
And so as a grandmaster, that's the interpretation over here of
a Sri Swami. And it's been one of the when I,
when I figured out, I mean, I had a little bit of a hang up

(30:52):
being called a grandmaster, probably because I'm the first
one. And so I didn't want, I don't
want that kind of pressure, you know, like plus it sound old.
You know, I was fine being a master.
Why do we have to call me a Grand Master now?
I sound like a grandpa. But also once I learned that
what it was and what they were saying, I was like, Nope, Nope.
That's actually 100% accurate. I am 100% confident in myself.

(31:15):
I know myself and I study myself.
I learn from myself, I grow withmyself, and I also am in touch
with Source and I do have that direct connection and I don't
question it or doubt it. I know it's there.
So I have nothing to prove to anyone else.
I don't feel obligated to convince people who I am.

(31:36):
You'll sense it and see it if you get a chance to be around me
or talk to me. But outside of that, I really,
you know, what do they say if you're not going to?
If you won't take someone's advice, you probably shouldn't
take their opinion or care abouttheir rights.
And that's kind of how I look atit.
And there's probably only 5 people on the planet that I
actually go to for advice. So that keeps me, you know,

(31:59):
immune, I guess, from all the haters and the naysayers and the
people that want to tear you down.
And, you know, I mean, let them speak, let them do their thing.
I mean, it's not on them for me to not react to it, right?
I'm the one who has to take responsibility for myself.
And I think if we get to realizethat, too, stop blaming everyone

(32:20):
else. Nobody cares about your
problems. Everybody has them.
And unfortunately, my brother, at 44, passed away because
things were just too difficult. And, you know, he just couldn't
seem to get out of his own way. And he couldn't seem to, you
know, we both grew up in the same world, But I've been able
to figure out a path and find a way around it, and he wasn't

(32:43):
able to. And so I lost, you know, my best
friend and the person that I believe would be on.
I don't, I never thought about life without my little brother.
I always believed that I would die first because I'm the older
one, right? So he's always there.
And so now our whole goal in life was to get to a point where
we could actually retire and play golf together and grow old.

(33:06):
And now I'm here going, well, now what do I do?
You know, like. What's Plan BI didn't have one.
Right. I've never envisioned this.
I thought I had a plan for everything.
I had thought about all of it, right?
I mean, strategist, military, all this kind of stuff.
Nope, didn't have a plan for this one at all.
This one totally sideswiped me and threw me for a spin.
So now I can only be grateful for the fact that I had the time

(33:29):
that I did with him and that I learned what I learned from him
and that I get an opportunity tocarry that on in life.
And that's what I am choosing todo with it and not allowing it
to cripple me and take away my, my ability to keep going.
You know, that's always been my superpower is a I'm always calm
and BI don't stop. Nothing will ever stop me.

(33:52):
Object stays in motion until it's met by an object of equal
or more force, right? Well, I'm pretty sure there's
nothing in this universe that's equal or stronger than my force.
I'm confident about that. I know what I'm nice.
So I feel like I'm in good shapeas long as I don't stop.

(34:13):
So tell me about your, your, your company.
Tell me about what Trust Unlimited is and.
How you can should we start recording?
Yeah, yeah, I record everything,so it's all recording.
I'll edit it all out later. OK, so it's what?
Yeah, but I'd love to hear aboutyour background and everything.
Else sure. You like a synopsis, you know,
11 paragraph clip of your life, and then we'll go through and

(34:36):
kind of break it down into pieces.
It's a little longer than a paragraph.
Yep. Oh yeah, No, I don't.
Probably novel. I I was born and raised in a
small town in northern Canada, and it was fairly isolated and
people had to pull together, right?

(34:56):
You had this notion that if we didn't hang together, we would
all hang separately. And so I learned that if you
could help people, you should. And then when I was 17, I was
playing junior hockey and I got jumped by a fan with the club
shattered. My helmet knocked me

(35:17):
unconscious. Apparently.
I stopped breathing three times on the way to the hospital.
And you know, when I was, when Iwas 17, I knew that I was losing
my sight. I had a hereditary retinal
disorder, and so I knew my sightwas just going to get

(35:39):
progressively worse. And then eventually I'd be
legally blind. So my whole plan had been to
think for a living, and now all of a sudden I had the attention
span of a fruit fly. I couldn't think at all, right?
I went from being on the honor roll to failing everything, and
it provoked a real sense of lossand helplessness and

(36:07):
hopelessness. And I tried to go to college,
failed is mid 80s, right? So we didn't know a lot about
post concussion syndrome or headinjuries or those kinds of
things. And I kept playing hockey and I

(36:30):
had numerous concussions. And then I transferred to the
University of Victoria and for some reason strangers would just
come up to me and start telling me their story, like a complete

(36:50):
stranger sitting next to me on the bus and say I'm really
having a hard time. And I started to wonder what it
was that was provoking that reaction to people because I I
saw it wasn't happening with others.
So I started down a path towardsclinical psychology and I worked
with troubled teens and familiesin crisis and on crisis lines

(37:14):
and all those kinds of things tobuild up more experience and to
try to more fully understand what it was about me that was
triggering that response. And I, I came within inches of
becoming a clinical psychologist.
And then I realized that and thepeople I was trying to help
were, had been that way for a long time.

(37:35):
It had taken them a long time toget there.
And even if I could see a reallyclear path forward for them,
they often couldn't take it. And I thought this would drive
them crazy. And so I shifted into public
administration, did a master's degree in public admin, and I
was involved in native land claims in British Columbia.

(37:58):
And we were negotiating settlements with native groups.
They would ask me these sort of deep philosophical questions,
like what is self government or what will the province look like
50 years after claims are settled?
The last question they asked me was, how do we convince a group
of people we've shafted for over100 years they should trust us?
And then I thought, that's a good question, right?

(38:19):
Great question. And it gets back to these sort
of long term disputes. Why are they so resilient,
right? Why can't we fix it?
And so I went to Duke, wrote my doctoral thesis on building
trust in hostile environments atthe Business School there.
And I had two of the world's leading academic experts on my

(38:40):
committee. And they sat me down after I was
done. And they said, you know, when
you first came to us, you, we thought too big, too
complicated. He never solves it.
We'll give him six months. He'll come crawling back.
We'll chisel off a little piece,and that'll be his thesis.
I said, six months in, you're sofar beyond us.
We couldn't help anymore. All we could do is sit and
watch. I said, here we are a few years

(39:03):
later, we think you've solved it.
And so I ended up going to work for a big consulting firm,
McKenzie and Company. And I started applying the work
that I theorized about and started having some pretty
amazing results. And they sat me down and they

(39:25):
said, you've got the best clienthands we've ever seen.
We're going to send you to the worst places possible.
So I find myself in. Yeah, exactly.
I find myself in places where there was hostility, right?
Like where there had been a hostile takeover or where there
was a strike or promising labor and management.

(39:46):
And I'm getting to really apply these concepts.
And then in 2001, I'm on the wayto a client's site and the cab
I'm in rear ends another vehicle, and I end up with a
mild to moderate traumatic braininjury.
And I can't work 80 hours a weekanymore.
And so again, I'm back to that place right where I feel

(40:10):
helpless and hopeless. One of my former colleagues
reaches out to me and says, look, I've become head of
strategy for a mutual fund company.
Just come talk to us. And so I find myself in front of
several 100 people talking aboutsustainable, competitive.
Advantage. When I say to them that

(40:30):
basically means you do somethingbetter than your competition
that they can't copy and you're a mutual fund company, you have
to be transparent. There's nothing you do I can't
copy. That's right.
If I wanted to, I could just buyone share of every fund you have
and now I can build everything you've got without paying the
fund advisors. So I could sell what you sell at
a discount. You just follow the politicians,

(40:52):
right? Yeah, yeah, just exactly that.
Was the guy got arrested for that?
Yeah, because it's not fair for them to do it.
You're right. Exactly.
Exactly. Yeah.
Unfair for you to follow the example set for you by the
leaders of the country inside knowledge.
Yeah, I know. They're just very, very good at

(41:13):
what they do, I guess. Exactly.
They're better than Warren Buffett.
That's right. Exactly who?
Does that for a living exactly a. 175,000 a year worth $65
million. That's pretty good.
Yeah. I don't know how that works but.
So I started helping them. You know, they asked me to, I

(41:36):
said the only thing you can do that I can't copy is build deep
relationships with your customers.
They said that's it. That's our strategy.
And so over the next 18 months, I built a workshop, taught them
how to build trust with their clients.
They did a survey, found out that trust was the primary
driver of the sales decision, that they were all of a sudden
dramatically more trusted than any of their competitors.

(41:59):
And they generated $0.75 of every new dollar that came into
the industry for the next two years.
Wow. And so they're part of a global
investment company. And that company started sending
teams from all over the world toCanada to figure out what they
were doing because they were dominating.
And from that, I realized what Ihave isn't perfect, but it

(42:23):
works. And so I started applying the
model all over the place, you know, nonprofits, public sector,
private sector, heavy industry, finance, families.
The Canadian military asked me to help them try to figure out
how to build trust with the locals in Afghanistan.

(42:47):
And the whole time I'm learning,learning more about how trust
works, learning more about how to teach it to other people, and
learning more about how to shareit in a way that people can
actually apply it. Simplify it, right?
As my understanding becomes moredeep and complex, the message

(43:07):
becomes simpler and simpler and simpler.
Agree. Yep, and you know that's what it
really needs to come down to is the simplicity of everything.
We compared to everything but there really isn't anything
complicated about life. I spent three months with a

(43:29):
backpack and chill away Patagonia, South America,
southernmost point of the Earth,kilometer marker 0 of the PCH.
And I was there for three monthsand I had nothing.
No power, no Internet, no nothing.
And I realized how much time youactually have in a day when

(43:51):
you're not running around doing the things that people do and
they think they need to do. And so I spent 22 hours a day
sleeping, walking, sitting, skipping rocks.
I mean, life is very easy if youmake it easy and leave it what
it is. But it's always because we add

(44:12):
things to it that it becomes difficult.
And what I learned from my sabbatical was when I came back
to the States, I learned that anything I choose to add back
into my life now comes with a certain amount of stress
attached to it. And I'm choosing to have that
stress in my life. So it actually took me a long
time to buy furniture for my home because that was so I was

(44:35):
like, I don't want anything because if I have more than I
have more to worry about. And the less you have, the less
you have to worry about. So I basically became a
mentalist and understood that, you know, these objects that we
thought we need were taking overour world.
And that's why everybody's so busy.
That's why everybody's so stressed out.
Everybody's in a hurry to die basically.

(44:56):
And I'm over, I'm over here going, man, these days are
really long. I'm really beautiful and, you
know, just spending the time that I'm supposed to and I, I
accomplish more than anyone I know, but I don't get stressed.
I'm never too busy to take time for somebody.
I'm always happy to fill, you know, like I don't put a big

(45:17):
schedule out in front of me. I'm not trying to fill my
calendar to the rim. I find balance because I can't,
not because of my my traumatic brain injury if I don't take
care of myself. Or I don't.
Take care and and more so it's agovernor, right.
It keeps me from pushing too hard because if I do, it's going

(45:38):
to shut me down. So I just love that I'd rather
not do that. And you know what, what a cool
thing to learn. I mean, terrible way to learn
it, but a cool a cool thing to learn.
So I mean, now people are, you know, always compliment me on
how calm I am, how peaceful and how relaxed.
And they said, man, it's addicting to be around you

(46:00):
because you have such a, a calm,confident energy and it makes
them feel secure and safe. And then as soon as they leave
and they're not in my presence anymore, they go back to the
chaos of life. And I get it.
I mean, I understand, you know, you, you got to do things and
you've got obligations and that kind of stuff.
But you know, people don't realize that you don't have to

(46:21):
be what you've always been. And so I hear people say all the
time, I've always been that way,but you don't have to stay that
way. You have the choice.
It's just a decision. It's not like you you.
Know, and so to me, that's not agood thing to say because you
probably ought to look at yourself and go, but do I like

(46:42):
that about myself? Is that something I'm proud of?
Or is it just something that I use as a cop out?
You know, I've always been this way or this is how I who I am.
I don't know about you, but I'm not the same person I was last
week, nor am I the same person Iwas last month.
And I'm certainly not the same person I was last year.
So I'm always evolving and changing, which I assume

(47:03):
everyone else is as well, one way or the other.
And I, I tell you all the time, you don't know me unless you
have been with me personally in the last seven days, because
otherwise you have the idea of who you think I am.
That guy's gone. He's dead.
He's never, he's not here anymore.
You know, like I've changed, I'mmoving on, I've moved.

(47:26):
So it's like, I don't know. I think there's got to be
somewhere along the way that something's going to break and
the, you know, the, the dam's going to fall.
And that there's going to be this flood of compassion and
empathy and love that's going totake over the earth and that
people are going to get back to being united and together
because we are only strong when we are together.

(47:46):
And that's, you know, that's whyI refuse to stand for any
protests or any of that stuff, because I don't believe in it.
I believe in unity. Does what you're talking about
involve everyone is welcome? If not, I don't want any part in
it. I don't want any part in it.
So to me, unity is what I believe in and I'll never change

(48:07):
that belief. I believe that's the the
fundamental that we should all be living by.
It's how we made it through thousands and thousands of years
of evolution to get to where we are today as we stuck together
and we fought by each other's side.
And I think that's really what the veterans bring to the table,
that if we can get everybody to actually stick around and hang
out and talk to people, open up to them, it'll help people

(48:31):
understand what it was like for us.
We don't care what color you arewhen you got our six in the
military, We just want to make sure that you're going to watch
our back. You know, it's the last thing
we're thinking about is what race or nationality or sexual
reference Tesla, you don't ever hear veterans standing up for
any of that because they tell uswe're all green, every single

(48:51):
one of us. And so, you know, that's our
that's our skin color, that's our race.
And once we're the brotherhood, there isn't anything that could
ever divide us, which is why we're so strong.
But somehow that that message isis broken from society all
together now and. Yeah.
People don't even know who they are or what they are or where

(49:12):
they are, you know, And to the. 1 Part of the challenge, Chris,
is that we interpret the world through stories, and we're bad
at anticipating what someone else's story might be.
All right, We, we don't take thetime to listen.
And. We don't get curious about each

(49:33):
other the way we like. You and I have had a long
conversation here just being curious about each other.
Right, right. And not just waiting to speak.
Right. Actually listening, learning.
Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, crazy.
Well, I, I think about what you're talking about, you, you

(49:54):
trigger all kinds of thoughts. For me, one of the stories that
I like to tell is the one about my son when he was younger and I
was helping someone teach parenting courses.
So I was volunteering to help her out.

(50:16):
She was talking about these different traits that we have,
right? Where we're maybe more focused
on detail or more focused on bigpicture or whatever.
We have these different traits, but they're not choices.
They're part of who we are, right?

(50:37):
So they're a bit hard wired and my son was highly distracted.
So he was late everywhere. And one day I was waiting for
him and he was later than normal.
I'm, I'm waiting outside the school and all the other kids

(50:57):
have come out and the teachers have come out and, you know, the
janitors trying to lock up and, and finally he emerges from the
school. And the whole time I'm thinking
to myself, this isn't really a choice for him, this is just
part of his hard wiring and I have a choice right now.

(51:19):
I can either get pissed off and give him a hard time about being
late, which is what I've been doing and hasn't had an impact
at all. Or did just wasn't a good one.
Was it? Yeah, it.
Was a good +1 at all. Or I can just accept him for who
he is and all that he is. And he came walking up to me and

(51:43):
his feet are dragging his heads down and he looks at me and he
goes, Dad, I'm really sorry I'm late.
And we got limited time together.
And I just looked at him. I said, buddy, you're worth the
wait. And I just decided in that
moment, I love him for who he is, for all that he is.
And whoever's coming next can wait because nothing's more

(52:06):
important than him. Nope, that's for sure.
And what's once I change that frame, Chris, the whole
relationship just got so much easier.
Yeah. Yeah, and.
You had to take the time to understand, Yeah.
And that you don't have to understand completely, but you

(52:28):
do have to take the time to stopand realize that he's not going
to do things the way you envision them in your mind.
No, he's got a totally differentmind.
And that's great. You know, that's what keeps the
world interesting. It's our refusal to accept that
people are going to do things differently that causes us the

(52:49):
pain and struggle. Right?
And. So, well, it's when those
stories don't line up, that's where I see a lot of conflict,
right? You have a story and I have a
story, and they're in competition with each other.
A lot of the work I end up doingis helping people create a
shared narrative, a shared storythat allows them to interpret

(53:10):
the world in a similar way. And once I change my narrative
about my son, my mantra for my 2boys is that I've got a
relentlessly positive story about them.
And if you know, I have a guide dog named Drake.

(53:32):
He has a positive story about everyone we meet.
If we had his brain sounds. Like an amazing, amazing animal.
Oh, he's incredible. I have a service animal and his
name is Apollo and he's with me every day, everywhere I go and
he he senses and knows things about me before I do.

(53:54):
And our relationship is unshakable.
There's no bond I've ever seen that is tighter or closer than
the bond I have with him. And it's, you know, to me, dogs
are angels. They're never angry.
They're always loving you. They're forgiving, they're kind.
They're they're for, you know, they're, they're, they're such a

(54:15):
special animal. And you know, I was reading
about you, Drake, and I was like, as I'm reading it, it
doesn't I I miss a lot of thingswhen I read.
So I missed that it was about a dog, but I was like, I want to
know this Drake person, like this person sounds really in
that room. Oh, this is got it.
That makes more sense. There's no, no human beings are

(54:36):
that awesome. No, he's the director of
goodness, right? The DOG.
That's right, the DOG. Which I thought that was
brilliantly done, by the way, from a veteran who knows
acronyms for a living. Yeah.
Yeah, I love it. I thought it was great.
And so if we could have a littlemore Drake in all of us, a
little more dog in all of us, right?

(55:00):
Yeah. Curious.
Positive narrative about others.Standing.
Yeah. Even for.
Grace. Even for giving.
What's wrong with the world today that we are so stuck on
the idea that someone else is going to be perfect all the
time? Right.
Where does that come from? None of us are perfect, we all

(55:23):
make mistakes, but yet people are so fast and quick to just OK
that one mistake. I'll never speak to him again
and it's. Like right?
But you could have had 60 or 70 years of amazing time together
and instead you wrote them off because they made a mistake
like. Well, I had, I had a parent say

(55:44):
to me, you know, I was talking to them about trust and and they
said, can we ever recover if trust is broken?
I said, well, yeah, said your kid is going to lie to you at
some point. They're they're going to
practice with the truth. Does that mean you write them

(56:06):
off forever? Right.
Exactly. You don't, right?
And this is part of the challenge we're seeing in
today's environment where leaders feel like they can't
make mistakes, they have to be perfect.
Parents feel like they have to be perfect.
And you know, part of the young men's program I'm developing is

(56:32):
based on teaching them how to build relationships.
Because when I was growing up, Icould be a screw up over and
over again. People were stuck with me.
That's right, right? I could make mistakes often and
they'd say, Darrell, you're an idiot.
Yeah, and they weren't documented.
Right. There was no Me Too movement.
There was no, you know. No, it's no Snapchat.

(56:56):
No. And I was going to show up to
school the next day and they were stuck with me, right?
Yep, that's for sure. Now you make a mistake and
you're done for life. Yep, at.
Least that's the feeling. I don't understand where that
comes from. What?
What makes someone not realize that they're going to make a

(57:17):
mistake at some point also? And when they do, when they want
some kind of someone else to forgive them?
Or do they just expect that theywill?
I mean, it's so hypocritical to me, but I'm very confused by
that concept. Yeah, we, we.
So 95% of people believe they'remore trustworthy than average.

(57:37):
OK. Which which is just not
statistically impossible. It's also really problematic
because it means that if something goes wrong between you
and I, I assume it's you and I don't do the work.
That's exactly the opposite of me.
Let's assume it's me. Spend every day reflecting on
the day before to see what I could have done differently, how

(58:00):
I could have done things better.But if something doesn't work
out, I'm the first person to go.It was probably my fault.
See. But you're an outlier, brother.
That's exactly right 100% and I don't know anyone else or very
few people like me and those that I do know I keep close.
And so the the challenge we see right now is that our

(58:20):
relationships are a mile wide and an inch deep.
Yes. They don't have the same
resilience that they used to have and we don't get the chance
to learn the way we used to learn.
And so if we get crosswise with someone, there's someone else
out there that we can find on the Internet through social
media. It's yeah.

(58:43):
Our relationships, yeah, our relationships have become so
easily replaced and we don't have the same.
Before. Before was the fact that we were
able to get past things, I thinkadaptability and acceptance.
Are two of the. Key things in life that keep you
alive and help you to thrive. But on top of.

(59:04):
That I mean, I would argue that learning how to overcome
adversity and controversy. Well, a friend of mine told me
this. He said friends don't have con.
He said controversy. They have conversations.
And I was. That's really profound.

(59:24):
He didn't even mean to say it, but he's like, you know, if
you're a real friend, no matter what happens, you come to me, we
have a conversation, and then wepassed it and that's it.
But if you aren't a real friend,then it becomes a controversy
and now our confrontation, whichever way you want to look
at it. And that's never going to result

(59:45):
in anything good because as you said before, if we both have
opinions or ideas, then you mustbe wrong because.
Right. I believe in mine, which means
that's right. No, not at all.
Just because you believe it doesn't make it right.
It doesn't mean there's right. Nothing's right or wrong.
Just human beings are so complicated and counterintuitive

(01:00:10):
at times, right? So there are people who get
really bent out of shape if you say something positive or
negative about political figures, right?
And there's a, there's a whole whack of them, right?
They get just really wound around the axle if you were to

(01:00:32):
say something positive or negative about Trump or about
Pelosi or about whoever. I mean, MAGA is a bad word.
Like right, OK. And so, so we get triggered by
that, right? Apparently.
Apparently we do. How is it that if I said

(01:00:52):
something negative about someone, whether it was Pelosi
or Trump or some other politicalleader, you take that as a
personal attack when the data shows us that Congress has like
a 15% approval rating? We're actually all in agreement
that politicians kind of suck, yeah.
Exactly. Why are we fighting over these

(01:01:14):
people who don't deserve our time and attention?
Like, why are we at odds? Why aren't we pulling together
to say, you know, we need a system that's a little better,
that represents us, right? We need people who look out for
our best interests rather than their own.
These people we don't even know.We are told who they are.
We are shown who they are by people who want us to believe

(01:01:36):
what they want us to believe. So it's not like we actually
have a personal relationship with Trump or Pelosi or anybody
else. So how am I going to make any
kind of judgement call? Not that I have the ability to
judge anyone because I'm the most imperfect human on earth
and therefore I don't look at life as that way.
But also, again, if you haven't spent the last seven days with

(01:01:57):
me, then you really don't know who I am.
And therefore you don't have an opportunity to have an opinion
about me because you, you don't know me and I don't care how
many times you follow me and I don't care how many posts you
read. You see the highlight reel of
what I want you to see. It's entirely censored to make
sure you see what I want. And if I can do that at my lowly

(01:02:20):
level, then these people can obviously do the same thing.
They have people in place that do that for them.
So we only get the perspective that they want us to see, which
is to me absolutely asinine. Like you said.
First of all, we all agree that none of them are good.
Some, yeah. Some are not as bad as others,

(01:02:40):
but we're we're looking at like the lesser of two evils.
It's a sliding scale of crap when we get down to it.
But who would want to do the job?
You know you ridiculed your. This is just it, right?
So I asked leaders, would you like to be a political leader,
right. When I'm working with executives
and I say to them, would you like to do that?

(01:03:01):
And overwhelmingly they say no way.
I'd never put my family through that.
So you know what, we end up witha bunch of people who are fine
putting their family through that.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
So why do they give a crap aboutyou and I, Chris?
They don't, right? We need to actually care about
each other. Well, and on top of that, none

(01:03:23):
of these people have ever servedtheir country, not in a fashion
that you should have to. I mean, the first presidents of
the United States were all military leaders who served in
the military and that's where they got to office.
Nowadays, there's not anyone in politics who has even has ever
served, nor has a child that hasserved, nor would they let their

(01:03:43):
children serve. You know, and that's that should
tell you everything you need to know about that whole situation.
You know, it's don't follow their lead at all.
I don't know why anyone would want to believe or even remotely
think that these people are whatwe see them as on the news, you
know? I mean, the way they clip and
edit and say sing, you know, sound bites and all this other

(01:04:05):
stuff. Nowadays, we're being given
exactly what they want us to have.
So trust levels are remarkably low.
They're some of the lowest levels we've ever measured.
And it makes complete sense, right?
I, I look at the court system and the first thing people say

(01:04:27):
is this was a Trump appointed judge, or this was a Biden
appointed judge, or this was a Reagan appointed judge or an
Obama appointed judge. No one believes these people are
objective and unbiased. And that's supposed to be the
job, right? And when we look at the Supreme

(01:04:50):
Court, those appointments are all heavily politicized.
And it's fine that they might agree with your beliefs and
values in the moment, but that'sthat's likely or liable to
change. Yep.
Wouldn't you rather have to? Position.

(01:05:10):
Yeah. Wouldn't you rather have people
who are fair minded and objective and critical thinkers
than people who are appointed based on their politics?
Is that still I would? There's a theory, but so I think
in this environment, trust levels are so low because it's a

(01:05:32):
combination of uncertainty and vulnerability right in in my
mindset, it's uncertainty times.Vulnerability gives us a level
of perceived risk and we each have the threshold of risk that
we can tolerate. And so if uncertainty is high,
to fit the low, the threshold vulnerability has to be low.
Right. As our relationships get deeper,
the folks that you talk about isyour friends, that uncertainty

(01:05:55):
drops, right? So it's just a smidgen.
And then that means that there'sa range of vulnerability you can
experience with that person and still be comfortable.
Well, our vulnerability hasn't gone down, but our uncertainty
is bouncing all over the place. And in that environment, asking

(01:06:16):
people to be just a little more vulnerable is a bigger ask than
it used to be. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, vulnerability
is almost a bad word. Well, and particularly for men,
right? Like we talk about what it means
to be a man. We talk about, you know, I think

(01:06:38):
the best way to get men to ask for help or accept help is to
ask them first. Exactly.
Show your rights. You go first.
You show a little bit of vulnerability first by asking
them for help and then they get the signal that it's OK for me
to respond in kind, right? And we want to share don't

(01:07:01):
scare, but a little bit of vulnerability upfront.
That's why for the aspiring men's program that I'm
developing, we want these guys to be champions, right?
You used that word before, and that's exactly the word that I
think of as well as they're going to be advocates that go
out and into the world and help other young men figure out how

(01:07:23):
to connect. And we need to teach them from
the ground up how to build stronger relationships.
Absolutely. And first and foremost with
themselves. You really can't offer someone
something that you don't have already.
And if you're not in tune with yourself and you're OK with
yourself and heck, even like yourself, then you probably

(01:07:46):
shouldn't be out there attempting to do things for
others. Because, you know, without
having your glass full, you can't pour into anyone else.
So you know. Well, yeah, but but I think we
each have things to bring. Oh yeah, every single.
One right, Whether it's the story we tell or the journey
we've gone through or the the challenges we faced.

(01:08:12):
It's just whether or not we're willing to tell it from their
perspective that needs to be told from.
Right. Because you can, I can tell my
story and actually shut people down and damage them by the way
that I say it or the things thatI the terminology that I use or
the expressions. But I can also tell my story in

(01:08:34):
a way that inspires people to open up and feel the same.
So I think that we have to, again, you've got to look back
into yourself. You do.
Everyone has a message, everyonehas a gift.
Everybody has something, a life story that they can be
inspiring, but they could also use it to hurt people or to
dismantle their their confidence, you know, and like
you said, trust is definitely atan all time low when people

(01:08:57):
become disposable, relationshipsare disposable.
You can move anywhere. You've got the Internet.
So there's at least 50 or 100 orin my case, a million people
watching your every move. So they won't think there's a
lot of opportunities options, I guess, but nobody sticks
anymore. You know, there's no loyalty.
There's no, nobody said nobody stands.

(01:09:18):
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for
anything. It's something that always stuck
in my mind and you know, and if you're easily offended, you're
easily manipulated. Those kind of things are like
why I will not allow that stuff to happen in my life because I
don't want to be easily manipulated.
Heck, I'm right, you know, I'd rather no way.
So you have to learn how to be so secure in yourself that when

(01:09:41):
you have a million followers, well, you're guaranteed that a
probably 10% of those people arepsychopaths, serial killers and
lunatics, you know, So that's 100,000 of them that are
following me and, you know, are wanting to take me down and make
sure I don't succeed any further.
And there's no way I'm going to give them that.

(01:10:01):
And there's no way, you know, I don't.
It blows my mind, but I wasn't ready to have a lot of money or
a lot of followers or any kind of responsibility most of my
life because I wouldn't have been.
I wasn't ready to share or to own it properly.
Now I'm finally at a point whereit doesn't phase me except in

(01:10:23):
the way that I look at it. As it's a platform.
I've got a ability to reach a lot of people, so I have to
always be very careful with how I say what I say and when I say
it because I can. I could take everybody down to
South America and drink the kool-aid, or I could change the

(01:10:43):
world and make it a much better place.
But it's up to me every day. I've got to make that choice.
And it's not easy, right? Because all the time people are
burning you, people are digging you, or people are trying to
hurt you. And you know, to stand up
against everybody and know who you are is a really, really
difficult place to be. And finding other people that

(01:11:03):
you can count on, yeah, that's athat's, that's a tough one, too.
Well, and who are there for the right reasons, right?
Yeah, right. Not there to get a piece of the
action or a piece of the pie, but they're for the right
reasons. And that's.
So my focus is on creating relationships that stick,

(01:11:25):
helping people learn how to create deeper connections.
And it's a really practical, applied approach, steps that
people can actually take to build deeper connection.
Nice. And you know, when, when regular
people like us see the model, they say, of course, that's how

(01:11:49):
it works. This is just common sense.
How did you get a PhD for this? Right, I think.
There's such thing as common sense and I'll leave those two
words or go together anymore. Every time I hear that, I go
oxymoron. Right.
Well, some kind of moron. Or some kind of moron.

(01:12:11):
Exactly. But when academics who study
this stuff see my model, they go, Jesus, you're decades ahead
of us. Yeah.
Nobody else talks about this way.
You do. And partly it's about
understanding the role that empathy plays, understanding the

(01:12:33):
role that, yeah, I need to understand myself, but I also
need to think about the story that the other person's telling
about me. That's.
Right. I need to get curious about
that. And when I coach folks, I'm not
just talking to them, but I'm also thinking about the
relationships that they're connected to, right?
What are the stories those otherpeople are having?

(01:12:55):
And that's what I get curious about with my coaching clients
is, OK, how do you think that's landing for this other person?
What do you think the story is that they're telling?
Because if I was them, here's the story I would have.
Yeah. And it's so it's so strange to
me that people aren't more interested in other people's
perspective because the only thing that I can find

(01:13:18):
interesting in the world is the viewpoint of someone else.
Right. All I know is my viewpoint.
I'm really bored with that. I'd like to see what else people
think and see, you know? And that's where it's like, if
you're not, what do they say to Walt Whitman To be curious, not

(01:13:40):
judgmental? Right.
And what A and that's a, that's a big part of my mantra, right?
Let's get curious, not judgmental.
Yeah. And love it.
I, I can't know if I'm right or not in my opinion until I've
collected other viewpoints. That's right, right.

(01:14:02):
So we, we talk about, you know, I talk about levers that we can
pull to build trust. And in my model, there's 10
levers, right? And we all have the ability to
build trust for other people. Some are just better at it than
others. So those who aren't very good
have a lever that they pull. Usually it's the ability lever,
right? I've got these kinds of

(01:14:22):
credentials, this sort of background, this much
experience, blah, blah, blah, right.
Those who are better at trust have multiple levers.
Those who are really good have multiple levers, and they know
when to pull which one. Yeah.
And so I can have my own perspective about what good

(01:14:43):
looks like, what excellence is. But if I don't include other
people in that definition, I'm going to miss, Right.
So if I wanted to be the best podcast host or guest you've
ever had, I'd actually have to ask you what that looks.
Like yeah, exactly. Right.

(01:15:03):
And if I wanted to go a step further, I'd actually need to
survey some of your audience to say what are some of the best
episodes that Chris has ever had.
Right. What made them so compelling?
How do I get there? Because I can't do that by
myself. I need to actually include you
and other people in that definition.
Exactly right. So.

(01:15:25):
Than people that you don't know and the opinions that others
have. And somehow that's turned into
the opposite. People don't want to hear it.
They don't want to ask, they don't want to be patient.
That's a really good idea that you had when they went to
brainwash everybody. Yeah, it.
Worked great. Yeah.

(01:15:47):
So the levers that, you know, uncertainty comes from us as
individuals and from the contextwe're embedded in.
And from the individual perspective, the three levers
are benevolence, integrity, and ability.
Benevolence is the belief you got my back, you have my best
interest at heart. Integrity is do I follow through
on my commitments and do my actions line up with my values

(01:16:10):
and ability is that competence piece right?
So I think benevolence is reallyimportant, right?
And you exude it because you want to help.
You want to get to everyone and teach them what you know to have
a more fulfilling life. You show up with that in spades.

(01:16:32):
But I've got a conversation thatyou and I can have right now
that your listeners can use withsomeone else.
And that is benevolence is really important.
And I think I do that, but it doesn't almost land that way.
Have you ever experienced that? I have.
Yeah. So what happened was there.

(01:16:54):
Again, I'm always the one who's the only thing I can control in
this world is myself and what and take responsibility for my
actions and behaviors. And so becoming a master
communicator and somebody who's really good with people and
saying and not saying the right thing, in the process of

(01:17:16):
learning that there were many situations where I had the best
intentions, yeah, heart and at hand.
But maybe I was distracted, or maybe I was stressed, or maybe I
was thinking about something else that had nothing to do with
the person at my hand. And so I would not give them the

(01:17:40):
feeling that they needed to feelin order to have a healthy and
trusting conversation with me. Rightfully so, because I wasn't
present. I was, I was in a million other
places. And I overtime became someone
who understood that I really like it when people listen to me
when I have something to say. And therefore I should probably

(01:18:02):
be the same way with other people.
And I started to stop. And now I, you know, I never
pick up my phone. I don't let anybody interrupt.
You know, if I'm in a conversation with somebody, they
have my undivided attention until we're done.
And that's the way it stays because nobody, I, I can't tell
you how many people, including myself, feel invisible in a

(01:18:23):
world full of people as we're just not seen.
Because very few people take time to literally stop what
they're doing, give you their undivided attention and see you.
And it's, you know, you've been having conversations with
people. I mean, I'm blessed that that
people would like to have a conversation with me to the

(01:18:45):
extent of my list of people is exceedingly hundreds of people
now waiting for the the opportunity to jump on the show.
And you know, I love every person that I speak with because
they offer some other perspective that I've never
thought about before. So it's only helping me grow and
keeping me positive and helping me to never get stale or

(01:19:07):
stagnant in the way that I believe or think.
And it shows us how diverse we all are, which is the key to
success really. When diversity comes together
instead of a part man, nothing can stop that.
You know, it's and I don't fall on any side of any fence
anywhere. You know, like I said, I don't

(01:19:27):
stand for anything except Unity.Does it allow everyone involved?
Nope. OK, then I'm not for it.
You. Know right?
I've, I mean everyone. I don't want there to be a
single limitation on anybody. So your response is pretty
similar to the response that I hear most often, right?
Which is, have you ever had someone misunderstand your

(01:19:50):
attempts to act in their best interest?
Overwhelmingly, people have a story like yours where they.
Yeah, I, you know, got misinterpreted or misaligned or
whatever. The next question then is, has
someone ever really had your back?
What did they do? What did it look like?

(01:20:13):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
That's the thing anymore. I've I've, I have people that
well, in the past five years, I've lost four of my 5 closest
friends. And OK.
Three to death, one to more or less death, but just doesn't
really hear her conscious or confident, you know?

(01:20:36):
And I was used to say, man, if Idie with five people that I can
say have my back and I can trust, I lived a successful
life. And at the time, it seemed like
it was going to be easy right at30.
And. Now as they get older, you're
like, man, I'd be lucky to die with one or two.
You know that I can actually sayI can count on that person no

(01:20:56):
matter what. And my brother was obviously one
of those people. And for the most time in my
life, I'm alive without that. I've never lived in my life
without that confidence in knowing I had somebody.
But he had your back. Every day, all the time.
We fought like brothers do, but we never would not have been
there for each other. Never.

(01:21:18):
What did he do that showed you that he had your back?
What were some just some easy examples?
Never stopped trying, never stopped believing, always stayed
with me, even if it was from a distance, he was always there.
And the song, brother, when you listen to it, you'll hear the

(01:21:41):
emotion, you'll hear that same consistency.
And I've gone back through all my text messages between us, run
them all through AI and asked AIto tell me what our relationship
was. And man, he couldn't have been
more spot on. And he, there's so many messages
between us where it's like, man,what happened to us?

(01:22:01):
You know, we used to be so closeand now we're so far away.
And my brother said to me, nothing's changed.
Just the distance between our bunk beds and bunk beds was our
thing. Bunk bed promises was our thing.
So and that was in the in the, in the midst of like a chaos
moment of my life where we weren't speaking and he was in

(01:22:21):
another city. But it never was a question that
if I needed him or if he needed me, that we would be there for
each other. And the hardest part about him
dying is that he died of alcoholism, where he could have
stopped drinking and came to me and I would have given him half
my liver and he would have been alive today.

(01:22:42):
But he didn't want to bring thaton to me or he didn't choose to
tell me anything about it, hid it from me and basically took
the the walk off the planet by himself.
And, and I guess in his mind he felt that was what was best and
he didn't want to. He knew that if he told me, I
would not let him do that. And so I would have, as his Big

(01:23:05):
Brother, made sure he didn't ever drink and that he took the
half a liver. But at the end of the day, you
know, you can't. I realize now that Alcoholics
are genuinely diseased to a point where they don't they
don't even know themselves anymore.
I couldn't even see my brother'ssoul any longer.
It was just this hollow, empty vessel that was overtaken by by

(01:23:28):
a a a terrible disease. It's a horrible, horrible thing
to watch and even more difficultto understand when you're not
one of those people. I have no idea what to do for
someone when they're an alcoholic because there's no way
to stop them from drinking. They're going to drink.
And so you don't have even me being the most motivating and

(01:23:50):
inspiring and all the things. And then I'll tell you what the
last text messages that I sent my brother before he died said.
I finally found the cure for addiction.
I can get you in right away. And he never responded to it
because he didn't want it. And then two days later, he
died. And I did.

(01:24:11):
I never stopped trying. I'd never stopped giving up
hope. I never stopped looking for
cures and answers. And I found a plant, iboga, from
Africa, which is 85% effective at eliminating any addiction in
one use. And I was so excited to be able
to get this to him, but it was already way too late.
He was already gone. And, you know, I did everything

(01:24:37):
I could, yeah, to the best of myability.
But I still look back and think to myself, there's just no way
to rationalize with somebody who's an alcoholic.
They don't see ration, they don't see logic.
They don't. They see nothing but emotion
and, you know, have utmost confusion in their brain.

(01:25:00):
And so, you know, tough, tough lesson to learn because
everybody kept saying he'll hit rock bottom, don't worry.
Well, in this case, his rock bottom didn't didn't give him
much to work with. So yeah, terrible.
But life, I guess, is what they call it so.
So the wow, I'm really sorry I put the loss of your brother.

(01:25:22):
Thank you. So the conversation kind of
unfolds in the following way. It's benevolence matters or
having people's back matters. It doesn't always come across
clearly when we try to do it. And parents experience this a

(01:25:43):
lot when they try to do what's best for their kids and they're
thinking about long term goals and objectives that they don't
really even abide by themselves.Once we start asking people
about that story about someone who's had their back, it primes
them to think about what benevolence looks like for them,
what somebody have in their backreally looks like for them.

(01:26:07):
And then we can ask them, what does success look like for you?
How do I help you get there? What would it look like if I was
benevolent to you? You know, to me, success is
defined a lot differently than everyone else.
To me, success defined in how well I manage my emotions and

(01:26:29):
how many people I can help in this world.
Right. What I consider just to be
successful, I don't care about money, I don't care about
titles, I don't care about stat,I don't care about followers.
None of that means anything. None of it is actually even a
thing. But what is a thing is helping
other people to realize themselves, because most people

(01:26:49):
don't. They don't realize what how
magnificent they are. How impossible that.
They're here today. So it's a it's a life goal of
mine to nothing but be a servantto those around me and to
hopefully create hope, trust, love.
I mean, I, I'll settle for truthand love as my 2 for the win.

(01:27:11):
You know, if you can live in truth, truly live in truth and
never lie, you know, life becomes very simple and very
transparent. And when you have nothing but
love in your heart, you become the embodiment of what a God
would want you to be, which is why in the Bible says God is

(01:27:32):
love, which means subsequently that love is God.
And so and interchangeable termsto me.
And so if you live a life of love, live a life of truth,
people are going to trust you. But to an extent, everybody has

(01:27:52):
a certain level where they'll only allow you to get to this
point, you know, And it's, it's hard to unwind the damage.
It's hard for people to to back out of where they the where they
stood for years, you know, rather keep standing on
something wrong than admit that I was wrong and turn to
something right. And not that there is a right or
wrong, because everybody has their own thing, but certainly

(01:28:13):
is a challenging 1. So it's, it sounds like you and
I have a lot more to talk about,but yeah, certainly been on here
for a while. We have, this is a long, longer
podcast than I normally do, but obviously I'm very interested in
talking more with you too, because this will be cut up and
nicely. But also I'd like to get through

(01:28:34):
your entire, your entire series and see how we can collaborate.
I would love to work with you and do some things.
Certainly there's opportunities and certainly there's no
shortage of people who need our help.
I agree, brother. And so I am, I'm excited.
I'm excited that we got to talk and I'm excited to talk with you
further. However, my wife is calling me

(01:28:56):
and I want to make sure she's OKso.
Yeah, fair. We'll check you out for a
minute, but we'll definitely stay in touch.
And before we go, give everybodyyour information, tell them we
were website where they can findyou all that.
Sure. So folks can find
mywebsite@trustunlimited.com if they want to read about the
model. I tried to put everything into

(01:29:16):
the book that I wrote, which wascalled Building Trust, The
Exceptional Leadership in an Uncertain World.
If they want to reach out, it's darrell@trustunlimited.com.
Or you can find me on LinkedIn. Nice.
I love it. Yeah.
I'd love to get a copy of that book and maybe you can autograph
it for me. Let me get on that.
I would love to have one, so I will get through and maybe it's

(01:29:38):
a book on tape that I'll listen to, but I'll have the book for
me. OK.
I actually very slow. I might be I it is on audible.
OK, so you've already got it outthere on the Audible.
I do. It's on Audible, it's on
digital, and it's in hardcover. I'll serve.

(01:29:58):
I'd love to listen to it, but I'd also love to have an actual
book if it's not a, you know, aslong as I let.
Me get to work on that. Yeah.
But no, it's been great. Thank you for the conversation.
I really enjoyed it. And I know we're going to have
many, many more. There's no doubt about that.
Thanks, Chris. Yeah, thanks so much.

(01:30:21):
I'll talk to you soon, OK bud? All right.
All right, keep on keeping on. You too, brother.
See you soon. Bye.

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EP504: Darryl Stickel, PhD - The Truth About Trust

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP504: Darryl Stickel, PhD - The Truth About Trust