August 21, 2024 • 34 mins
Million Dollar week is in year 5 as we look at 2023 Run for the Million numbers, stats and best of the best rider' list for 2024.
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(00:12):
Welcome to the Cowboy Office Show where you'll experience
expert analysis and epic discussion on key pillars of the
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horse lifestyle. Your Co hosts are Jodi Brainerd
and Brian Dagger, industry veterans with over 120 years
combined living the cowboy lifestyle.
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(00:33):
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(00:53):
Settle up as we ride into today's show.
Well, hello, horse World. I'm Brian.
And I'm Jody this the run for a million week.
You know, the finals are on Saturday.
If we got 16 of the best riders running for 1,000,000 bucks,
paying 500,000 to win life changing money, brother, I'm
(01:14):
telling you that's, that's that amount is, is crazy.
And I mean, Brian, you got to beour age.
But there was a guy I got thinking about this, you know,
named Jimmy Lennon, who used to do all of Don King's boxing
promotions and was the ring announcer, right?
And he made it Showtime famous, right?
I mean that. And that's what this is.
(01:35):
It's a show. I mean, not only, not only is it
great riders and great horses with our sport, but it has
turned into a production and I've never seen anything like
it, you know? None of us have in the industry
hasn't. And I hear you loud and clear.
And I think that that's what's fascinating, you know, in in the
horse world, this is our milliondollar week.
So if if there's a Super Bowl orwhatever you want to call it, I
(01:58):
call it million dollar week, it's here.
We're going to spend a couple minutes looking at last year's
numbers and then we'll be following up with an in depth
show after the event to then kind of look at the trends and
what does it all say? But when you talk about the best
of the best, this is it. It doesn't get any better.
So we've got the numbers. We're going to have a quick
(02:20):
conversation on what did last year's numbers say?
And then, you know, what might you and I think it be doing as
we head towards, you know, like this year's Derby when you
called me after the first go andI said hang on.
So anyway, so. Don't get excited.
(02:41):
Settle. Yeah, exactly.
I get it. Yeah.
So 2023, there were 17 riders qualified because of ties at the
list. We'll look at that in a minute.
But just to do an overview, thisis the basic big data points,
because the world gets they follow the scores and they
(03:02):
follow the score spreads and they follow the individual
scores. So 76 1/2 percent was the
officiating performance level onscore spreads.
Now, there's more to it when youtalk about officiating and truly
evaluating that performance, butthe score spreads alone, what
that's measuring is score spreads and 17 runs that are two
(03:23):
points or less. So 76 1/2 percent, 76% of the
runs were within a two point spread.
That's what it says. We can look at the entire
placing the high score on here is giving you the average of all
17. And there was actually two runs
of the 17 that were kind of bombers.
So they pull that average down just a little.
(03:46):
But it's less than 1/2 a point. So we can pull anyone that you
want. Top five, top ten.
The top five scores are right there.
Last year's top score was at 2:31.
That's exactly what it was. The top five scores 2:28 to
2:31. And we just, we're having this
big come apart with the industry, you know, a couple
months ago with the Derby in theDerby winner.
(04:07):
So this is where our sport is and this is the best of the
best. Top ten last year, 225 1/2 to
231. I thought that was very
interesting. Median right slap in the middle,
225 1/2. And the mode which we're now
measuring was a 225 1/2 again. So what was the most frequent
(04:27):
score? 225 1/2, which was also right
slap in the middle. Here's an interesting piece.
This is the best of the best. 5%of all maneuvers received a + 1
1/2. That's what that left hand
diagram is showing you. 5% of all maneuvers last year received
a + 1 1/2, and we'll show you the breakdown of that.
(04:49):
The thing that's very interesting is when you look at
penalties, did penalties determine the winner?
No, but percent, 65% of all runshad penalties in it.
And the real thing is when you look at non unanimous and we've
been talking about this for a while because over 3/4 of those
(05:10):
penalties were not unanimous. So do they start to sort out
$1,000,000 purse in a different format depending on how those
officials kind of perceive it and play it?
And the non unanimous penalties was 53%.
So that's 3/4 of 65. That's that's what it says, yes.
And that's that's incredible. And hell yeah, it's going to
make a difference in a paycheck for sure.
(05:32):
And if it's costing me money, I'm going to want to know who in
hell called up and who the hell didn't, right?
I mean, it kind of used to be, it used to be like who scored me
higher and who scored me lower? And now it's like, OK, who threw
that half point penalty in therethat cost me a lot of money or
what? Two guys did it, but in a non
unanimous spot. I think, you know, I don't have
the numbers here in front of me.I'm sure you do.
(05:53):
In our top ten placings. Where did we have our ties at?
I can show you right here, therewas a two way tie at 3rd and 4th
with a score 229 1/2 and then there was a tie at six and 7th
that was a score 226. And then there was a three-way
tie at 8-9 and 10 score 225 1/2,which is why that 225 1/2 comes
(06:19):
up as the most high frequency out of 17.
That's the why, But that's the answer.
Show your top ten horses, which is top five horses take almost.
It's 75% of the $1,000,000 purses distributed in those top
five spots. So that's where it is, and
(06:39):
that's why we looked at those top five scores, 2:28 to 2:31.
OK. So, but we actually, we, what we
did is we had 1-2, three horses tied, two horses tied for, I
mean actually 345, we had seven.We had the potential for seven
horses to be tied on up 10 basically is what you're saying.
That is correct. Yeah.
(06:59):
And it, yeah, it would bring #1 to question where that top five
spot, especially when we had thetie for 3/4.
The fifth horse obviously was, was a single.
He was by himself. Do you have the numbers in front
of you that tell me, tell us what?
Our sixth horse scored the tie for 6th and 7th.
If you give me a second, I can, yes.
(07:20):
And then we had 226 tied for 6thand I think that's that was the
number you told me. OK, first, first part of the
question was what was the difference between 5th and 6th?
What are our fifth place horse score?
5th place horror scores at 228. OK.
And then you had a tie for 6th and 7th with 226?
(07:41):
OK. And then it dropped to two, only
there's a half points differencebetween 8th, 9th and 10th and
6th and 7th. Is that correct?
That's correct, 226 for the 6th and 7th, and then a 225 1/2 for
the Tide 8th, 10th. Yep.
Yeah. OK.
All right. Well, I mean, there's a pretty
significant difference between the 3rd and the 4th place horses
(08:03):
at at the 229 1/2 and the 228. I mean, I, I think that
separation was good, six and 7thof the 226 from the 8-9 and ten.
I struggle with that one a little bit.
If I were showing two, you know half points difference between
12345 horses, right? Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it would be, you know, kind of part of the thing
(08:24):
that makes us, that makes it difficult is and because I just
talked to our our good friend and our client Aldo Ramona and I
said, have you checked? Because I haven't, I haven't
even looked. And do you have access?
Can you, because he's in Mexico.I said, are you going to be able
to pull it up? And he said, yes, I am.
And it's what makes it what makes it difficult for us is
that we is that we can't watch it unless we're there.
(08:45):
Right this. Year you can a couple different.
They have several different batches available here in the
US. Can you pay-per-view and get
Saturday's finals? The answer is yes.
It's a pay-per-view option through their website
runforthemillion.com, and you can get it, that is.
(09:06):
Correct. OK, good.
Well, that's really good becauseI didn't know.
I knew last year that there weresome packages available to you
in the States, but the Saturday finals was not one of them.
You could watch anything. You ought to butt back.
So yeah, you had access to different pins, but you didn't
have access to funds. So that's really good.
I'll show you that. I probably need to pay a little
bit more attention to it then, but yeah, OK.
Well, cool. No, no, I, I'm, I I will be
(09:28):
interested to see. And these numbers are really
neat. And the thing that I think that
they're neat about is we're not very many days away from having
a comparison. No, no, it's, you know, it's
coming quick and that's why I wanted to jump on and kind of go
over this quick so that we couldlook at last year's numbers and
then I think it's going to be fascinating as we see what
happens this year. So yes, that I'll bet there's a
(09:52):
number of horse people across the world that are probably
going to have $1,000,000 finals watching party, whatever you
want to call it, the $1,000,000 watch party.
How much fun would that be? Yeah.
There's no question. This is kind of like the, I
mean, it's our version of Kentucky Derby week.
This thing is, you know what I mean?
It's yeah, yeah. I think it's phenomenal.
(10:14):
So here's the next one. This is the score spread because
again, this is what the industrysees first.
This is generally we're about asfar as they go.
This just looks at it and your score spread rate of the
officials 76 1/2 percent. That's it's kind of normal.
It's what we've seen in the lastcouple years.
That's about where they are. We'll get to this in a minute.
Last year was pattern nine. This year they're going to run
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pattern 10, which is similar, but the there's a degree of
difficulty that is distinctly different between those two
patterns, making last year's pattern tougher than this
year's. So we'll get to that in a
second. But this just lets you see the
score spreads by the batches so you can see how many did it.
(10:58):
Maximum spread last year out of 17 runs was four points.
You had one run that had a four point spread.
You know, you got 25% of those runs.
We're 2 1/2 to four points. Can you go find the answers of
why that happens? The answer's yes.
Is that somewhat normal in our sport?
(11:19):
The answer's yes. How can we make it more
accurate? That's the one that you and I
have been after. So we're we're working on that.
The next one is when you drill it down, this is using the
scale. So this is looking at the
maneuver level and all the marksthat go with it.
(11:39):
So what it's showing you, and wecan drill down to it in any way
that you want. And then what it's showing you
now is the actual number as opposed to the percent because
34 of all maneuvers, 34 maneuvers of all maneuvers
marked in last year's received a+ 1 1/2.
(12:00):
So that's where that 5% comes from.
There was 680 maneuvers marked across 5 official 17 runs, eight
maneuver pattern pattern. 934 ofthose maneuvers received a + 1
1/2. What this graph shows you is
where plus one. And now you just you have to
look because it's in a ascendingorder plus 1 1/2 is right slap
(12:22):
in the middle at 5% correct score of 0 at 12 1/2 percent.
It's right here when I highlightit plus one is the next 135.3%.
So plus one, all maneuvers. Last year, 35% of them received
a plus one maneuver and 42% received a plus half, which is
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not new news because you're looking at the best of the best.
This is the best the sport has to offer.
Best riders and they have the absolute open door or picking
the best horses available and getting them ready. 3/4 of all
the maneuvers are being marked between good and very good,
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which is plus half and plus one.That's what it's saying.
I don't think that that's new news to any of us.
I think the big one is the 5%, because what they're having
difficulty with is the fine distinctions of high quality.
And I agree. And I think, you know, we've
talked about needing more tools for these guys to use and more
(13:24):
tools in the toolbox which are there, I mean they're available.
But even with the system that wecurrently are using, I think
that, you know, I, I had this thought.
I do have to say that I didn't see last year.
So I didn't see the 2023. I was not there.
I didn't see it online. I have not talked to judges.
I have not talked to spectators about it.
(13:46):
We saw Jason's run, but I mean, you know, the rest of those I
haven't seen. You know, I didn't talk to
judges, didn't talk to competitors.
But I the question that I would put to the current riders, I'd
put it to our judges, I would put it to our viewing audience
is an excellence rate of 5% where we're at.
(14:10):
I mean this, you just said it yourself, this is the best
riders that we have to offer thequalified this year.
They have access to horses of any age.
I mean, heck, they probably haven't even picked the ones
that they're going to go with yet.
I mean, the numbers don't lie. The numbers tell us that what
they're saying to us is that only 5% of maneuver evaluation.
And again, there were a couple runs that were bombs in there.
(14:31):
You know, we said that ourselves.
So, you know, maybe penalty application takes an effect on
more of maneuver quality, but 5%to me it seems like is that, is
that a good spot? I, I'm saying no, it is not
because these are the best of the best.
And if all we have to offer for and it doesn't say perfection,
it says excellence. If that is all that we have to
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offer for our sport, where are we going, right?
I mean, I, I think that I think the stuff that we see is
unbelievable with today's ridersand today's horses.
I mean, I we, we say that time and time again.
It is so, so much fun to watch and unbelievable to guys our age
that had to start with stuff that that couldn't even warm up
the bottom end of today's horses.
(15:19):
So yeah, I think that excellenceby that word, that description,
I think it should be higher. I I agree with you.
Let me share this with you real fast because this was this
year's Derby finals and I'm bringing up the highlight to the
plus one and a half one point, 1% of the maneuvers in the Derby
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finals were were marked at a plus one and a half 1.1.
So when you make the reference to is 5% is 5% where industry is
the answer is that is what we'remarking it.
The real question is, is that accurate?
And I think your question of where are we going because
(16:00):
everything is pushing us forwardand up and the officiating
system is having a very hard time with keeping up with that
pressure. That's true.
So where does the sport go? That's the bigger one.
And you know you and I have beentalking about it all year.
Excellence comes in a lot of different forms.
And our job is to find it, identify it, market, quit
(16:23):
comparing. That's it.
As a sport, though, we're struggling there because and,
and you remember this, it wasn'tthat long ago when we were very
active in the officiating side, that plus one we struggled to
use plus one. It took time, it took skill, it
took a little bit of effort. We're at the same spot.
(16:44):
I'd tell you we've been here forthree or four years on using
plus 1 1/2 and we're not using it enough and we're not using it
accurately. So that's my take.
On that one, I know. No, I couldn't agree more.
I was just, you know, I was thinking about that when we were
involved in this thing. If we would have told you that,
you know, if you would have toldus that our officials were using
plus one at 35% of the time, we'd have gone well.
(17:08):
Thank goodness. I mean, we wouldn't have
believed it, right? I mean, I, so I there is
improvement for sure, but I, yeah, Snoblin would have had,
John would have had he had a field day if they would have
said with used at 35% of the time, right.
This doesn't mean that, oh Gee whiz, that's good.
And we're just going to give it a + 1 1/2 because we're not
using it enough. That's not where we're at.
(17:28):
I think that the industry if theriders themselves, the judges
who are, you know, professionalsthemselves, I mean your
committees, whatever, they have to define that and they have to
teach it and that's what's not being done.
Yes, and I agree with you. Not only teach it, but then they
got to manage it, which is important.
You're right. And are we seeing it all the
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time, single digit and below? Single digit is what we're
seeing as an industry, which means it's not getting used.
And the rest of that is the accuracy.
So you're 100% correct. Now this one's got some
interesting points along with it.
What's significant it it does want to get a little busy and we
worked hard to not. What this does is look at all
the maneuver groups from zero toplus 1 1/2.
(18:11):
So plus 1 1/2 is the big doughnut to the right and then
zeros in the middle. Plus half is right there to the
left and plus one gets to the far left.
The colors are directly correlated to the same
maneuvers. As you look across those
maneuver groups, you can see what maneuver it was getting in
(18:32):
the score. The orange for example, is the
same across all of them. The purple is a stop and
hesitate. So as an example, stop and
hesitate got very little in the plus 1 1/2.
It got a lot in the zero and then it's about a little bit
more in the plus half and just asmidgen more than that in the
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plus one. That's kind of where the common
denominator is and can let you look at it fast and let it tell
you the story that it's trying to tell you.
You're right on the tools this. I mean, this is just such a
great chart because it defines what happened and it's easy to
understand. So I say, yeah, there have been
a lot of times that I wished I'dhave had these to work with,
(19:16):
right? Well, we all did and we didn't,
but we do now. How do we use these tools to
manage, prep, educate and perform at a level that the
competition, I think the competition and definitely the
economics. The I have not spoken to an
owner, a breeder, a wannabe buyer, any of those that isn't
(19:39):
talking about same thing becausethe economics are significant,
which we all dreamed about, but now comes with it the rest of
the responsibility and that's where we are.
Absolutely. And we have, you know, you and I
personally have talked at lengthabout this and there are
multiple ways to make this more accurate and easy ways to teach
it too. So there, there is not only some
room for improvement, but there are ways to make the improvement
(20:01):
significant. And I think that there are ways
to make it better fast. I mean, I don't think this is
five years down the road. I think that you can you can
make a make a significant difference in our in our the
accuracy of our officiating and.Short time.
Yes, that's a no brainer in my book.
Look at what we're doing. I could tell you at the first
drag, technology will let us do things that we couldn't do
(20:23):
before in a multitude of different formats.
And so that's kind of where you are.
And the answer is yes all day and no, it your your days and
weeks. You're not years away.
Yeah, I agree. Well, I, you know, I am, I am
excited. I wish, I wish that I were
there. Amy and I were laughing about
(20:45):
that. We just kind of got back from a
from an extended vacation. We had a great time And and I
said, well, she said, well, whatabout the run for me?
And it's kind of like going to the national finals now, though
it's I said, you know, you probably have to get your room
reserved now for next, for the next 25.
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's a it's a little
difficult to get to it, but man,I'm sure that that place is
(21:05):
buzzing. Oh, I'm sure it is too.
That's as good as it gets for the industry.
I actually took my family to thevery first one and we had a
wonderful time out of it. I think again, we're back to
technology and I'm all about pay-per-view all day long.
Do I think that our industry should be?
And now you can have your own conversation on what's the value
(21:28):
and what it's worth. But is it worth paying?
And can you create some of your own watch parties and have this
sport growing some added dimensions?
The answer is yes, that's where we are.
I hear you loud and clear. And but yes, if you haven't
gone, you need to go. And if you're thinking about it,
pay-per-view for this year and then make your reservations next
(21:50):
Monday for next year. I had an interesting
conversation with Mike Davis, who's on the board of directors
for NRHA at the North Central Running Horse Association for
Charity show last weekend. Mike had said we were talking
about the pay-per-view and he said, hell, I'm all for it.
He said, for crying out loud, you spent 30 bucks in
McDonald's. Now he said why, Why?
Why wouldn't you know what's what's 25 or 50 bucks to watch
(22:11):
something that you want to watchor 100.
It doesn't matter. I mean, gather 10 people.
Yeah, pay-per-view to watch something great.
People do it to watch fights, football games, whatever.
I get it. Yep, without agree.
Yep. So the last piece that we're
going to talk about real quick. This is the qualified riders
list 2023. Last year there were 17.
(22:33):
There's sixteen this year and the blue highlights are the new
ones, so that they're the ones that got qualified this year
that weren't there last year, which is 44%, almost half, which
I think is way cool. The qualifying itself is way
cool. Our sport, no sport, nobody is
(22:53):
doing what this sport is doing, which is getting qualified in
March for an event in August. I mean, take any other
professional sport and as they go to their pinnacle playoffs,
you're within weeks of that peak.
And so ours is creating a whole nother opportunity here that I
think is just fascinating. I think there's a couple cool
(23:15):
things in here. One last year you had a mother
and son that were competing and one of them was a non pro.
That was Mandy McCutcheon and her son Cade who's a up and
coming very dominant pro. Now this year you got a father,
son and because we're an individual sport.
Are they competing against each other?
(23:35):
Yes. Does the boy want to beat Pops?
Yes. Yeah, dethrone dad for sure.
I mean, and I I think there are a couple things that that come
to mind too. And I look at the list.
First of all, you know, with Anne Funk, you know, the ladies
and we've talked about this all the time.
This is the one sport where you're equal.
I mean, it doesn't matter if you're if you're a man or a
woman. And Anne is obviously no
(23:56):
stranger to the women at any way, shape or form.
It's I'm glad to have her here. I think that's cool.
And and Casey, I've known you for I don't know how long, 40
years, I don't know forever, butI think that Casey Hinton and I
don't, I don't know exactly how old Casey is.
I just I know how old I am. So I mean, but I am telling you
that for a guy that's significantly older than
(24:19):
everybody else on this list, I think with maybe the exception
of Dwayne, but you know, just tosee Casey qualify two years in a
row, this deal ain't easy to easy to get the call up for.
That's fantastic. You're bringing a very important
point, which is the horse equalizes all that stuff.
So is it age dependent and is itgender dependent?
And the answer is no. And it never was, you know, rest
(24:42):
in peace. Doug Williamson just passed, so
you know, and he rode and competed all his life, you know,
can you, if that's what you wantto do, yes, you can.
I agree with you on both those. Dwayne and Casey Hinton both
are, you know, Dwayne might be alittle bit younger than us, but.
Yeah, I think, I mean, that's fantastic.
And I, you know, I mean, and obviously the returning riders
(25:03):
in addition to Casey Hinton, youknow, those guys, the one thing
that all of these guys and gals have in common is they got
access to a good livestock because you know what I mean?
And we've had that conversation before.
Nobody's going to tell you what horse that they're going to show
because, yeah, I mean, they might have a pretty good idea,
but they they're they're leavingtheir options open, huh?
(25:24):
I think if you go back in our time, you remember when
substitution on age events used to be such a hot topic and
everybody had to beat the daylights out of it.
This is proving that substitution is a not issue.
Never should have been, isn't. Should you be able to look after
(25:44):
your horse and put in a good sound horse regardless of the
rest of those scenarios as long as you had the access to the
stock? And the answer is yes, we made
that very hard for a long time. This is proving the fact that it
that's not necessary. And no, they haven't declared
what horses. I'd love to have one of these
(26:05):
guys on or a couple of them and just talk about once they're all
qualified in March, you got 16 that all know they're going now.
What does that look like for thenext four months?
Not only selecting the horse, but then training it, managing
it, then getting down to how many do you take to the event?
(26:26):
I don't know. Do they take two or three and
then wait until Friday to reallymake up their final?
Just, I don't know that. But I all of that fascinates me
because it's one horse, one rider, and you don't get to do
two or three like we've always done.
Right, I had AI had a thought about that along that line too.
(26:46):
And our Chelsea, I mean, I only claim to her too, even though
she's your daughter, right. So anyway, our Chelsea, she
posted something the other day that said what she's going to
she was looking for questions because what was she going to
do? Sean and Andrea and Casey deary
going to do some interviews withthose guys.
And I I thought about this and Ididn't push this question
through for Chelsea. Sorry.
(27:08):
What would have been fun? I, I should have done it when I
had the thought, but you and I've talked about horses and
livestock and leveling the playing fields and all that kind
of stuff. But I, I would have liked her to
have asked those three and, and say first look, take the
self-service out of this question, OK, You can't, don't
think about yourself. I would like you to think about
(27:28):
the industry itself and the sport.
If you ask these guys the question, do you think that it
would benefit the sport if you were allowed to show one or two
horses Max in our major events? What would your answer be?
Because you've obviously said I only get to show 1 here.
I, I get to pick it whenever I want, but I get to only show
one. And you're not crying and
(27:49):
raising the roof about, Oh my gosh, I need to be able to show
3 here. I mean, you're following the
rules. It's easy, but I would be
interested. I think there would be some
benefit for our sport. I've said that many, many times
that you get to show three horses.
That rule was made what in 1960?What?
6. Yeah.
(28:09):
So anyway, it can be time for a change too, but I would be
interested to hear those three and what their personal opinion
was on that question. I think it's a great question
and I think that'd be a phenomenal conversation to have
as a round table again in today's time.
I think you're on something. Should riders be able to buy an
(28:30):
entry slot for any given event? Yes, but one and then take
whatever horses and up until whenever management's going to
make the draw, that's when you'dhave to declare which one and
could you still substitute up tothe time of going in the pent?
I hear you loud and clear. I've been a big proponent of
(28:51):
fewer. It would open the door for a lot
of things how we manage horses, but a bigger door that would
open is up and coming pros and the riders coming up and through
and could you manage those horses and the business that
goes with it in a equally if notmore productive fashion for
(29:11):
everybody? I think the answer is yes.
But it it'd be great one to havea round table on.
Maybe we can round one up. Whatever.
It would certainly be fun. But yeah, I mean, it's an
interesting list of riders. Yeah.
Like I said, any one of this list of this year is capable of
winning this event. It's not like, oh Gee, you know,
(29:32):
it'd be interesting to know whatthe sports books would say on
this if you're allowed to wager someone who's going to set the
handicap on it. But it would be.
It would be interesting for sure.
Then Quarter Horse News just published an article asking this
question. They asked the 16 riders what
horse they were going to ride and it was published 2 days ago.
There's 20 some horses that theyall made reference to and Court
(29:55):
Horse News did a follow up with horses that each of those riders
had been showing in the last time frame.
I don't know if it was 12 or 18 months.
It was a great article. 21 horses get specific reference to
those 16 riders. I was looking at the age of the
horse and the sex of the horse. Most of them are studs.
There's a couple geldings and Luca had two mares that they
(30:17):
made reference to. I don't know what horses they're
going to ride. What was very interesting was
when you started looking at the age, because we're going to see
horses depending on who they select from five and six year
olds to teens. I expect to see some horses that
are going to be somewhere in the8910, could be 12 years old
(30:42):
depending on which one they select.
And that just fascinates me to all in.
And maybe it's because we were part of that group that we used
to always think about the longevity of our sport and what
all that stuff meant. It's it's here now and this
event is the only one that's setting that whole new stage.
(31:03):
So I think that that's fascinating.
Talk about the distinct difference between pattern nine
last year and pattern 10 this year.
Do you think it's going to be easier for the officials or
harder? I actually think it, I think
it'll be a little bit more difficult.
And the only reason that I say that is that pattern 9, you
know, you've said it many, many times, it's, it's our, it's our
(31:24):
sports hardest and most difficult pattern because the
most difficult thing to do with precision is go from large, fast
lead change to slow, small and ideal case scenario.
I mean, I've plus 1 1/2 that setof circles on one horse in my
life, large, fast and pattern 9 to slow small.
I mean, one time and I ran it a lot on a lot of nice horses.
(31:48):
So it's very, very difficult to do the guys today and the horses
today, the lead changes have become second nature.
I mean these things can go do a western riding pattern.
I mean they're so good, so slow small to slow small and horses
that are very relaxed now that like they are going from slow
solid to small. It's pretty and you know, I
(32:09):
mean, I'm just saying the degreeof difficulty is not as high
with as with pattern 9. What with the degree of
difficulty being lower, it's going to make the decision
making harder, right? When I think what happens and I
only say I think what happens isbecause I've done it, I've
watched a a horoscope show in pattern 10 and I may go wow,
(32:33):
strong. Is that a one?
And then I end up one in the second set because it's, you
know, the circle and you know what, they were identical and I
should have said one. One is then a half one, you
know, I mean, it's what happens.So I think if guys are going to
separate in this pattern, you need to be jumping in the middle
of that first set of circles andthe second set of circles
because it'll give you room to sort.
(32:55):
You know, sometimes we get a little where am I supposed to
go? Because we don't have maybe
don't have enough tools in the toolbox to fit that evaluation.
So anyway, that's that's just two cents from a guy who's
judged a couple. And I know you've done it, but
it also. A couple, yeah, go to
cowboyoffice.com, put your e-mail in, ride along with us.
Don't forget to hit the subscribe button on the platform
(33:17):
of your choice. We appreciate all of you and
that's what keeps us going. Do stay tuned.
We will be doing a post event indepth analysis, so it'll just
follow up on this now that we'vegot data and stats from years
previous. Everybody that's not there, grab
your friends, do the pay-per-view.
Have a good time watching it. It'll be phenomenal and we'll
(33:38):
see you soon. So until next time, enjoy the
ride. Hey, until next time, stay in
the middle. Can't wait for the next one.
Today's episode is brought to you by 40 productions in
cooperation with the Consultant Agency, a full service agency
that helps bring forward thinking equine brands into the
(33:59):
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production such as the podcast you're consuming here today.
Welcome to the Cowboy Office Show where you'll experience
expert analysis and epic discussion on key pillars of the
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and Brian Dagger, industry veterans with over 120 years
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The Cowboy Office Show will helpyou get involved, ask more
(00:33):
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(00:53):
Settle up as we ride into today's show.
Well, hello, horse World. I'm Brian.
And I'm Jody this the run for a million week.
You know, the finals are on Saturday.
If we got 16 of the best riders running for 1,000,000 bucks,
paying 500,000 to win life changing money, brother, I'm
(01:14):
telling you that's, that's that amount is, is crazy.
And I mean, Brian, you got to beour age.
But there was a guy I got thinking about this, you know,
named Jimmy Lennon, who used to do all of Don King's boxing
promotions and was the ring announcer, right?
And he made it Showtime famous, right?
I mean that. And that's what this is.
(01:35):
It's a show. I mean, not only, not only is it
great riders and great horses with our sport, but it has
turned into a production and I've never seen anything like
it, you know? None of us have in the industry
hasn't. And I hear you loud and clear.
And I think that that's what's fascinating, you know, in in the
horse world, this is our milliondollar week.
So if if there's a Super Bowl orwhatever you want to call it, I
(01:58):
call it million dollar week, it's here.
We're going to spend a couple minutes looking at last year's
numbers and then we'll be following up with an in depth
show after the event to then kind of look at the trends and
what does it all say? But when you talk about the best
of the best, this is it. It doesn't get any better.
So we've got the numbers. We're going to have a quick
(02:20):
conversation on what did last year's numbers say?
And then, you know, what might you and I think it be doing as
we head towards, you know, like this year's Derby when you
called me after the first go andI said hang on.
So anyway, so. Don't get excited.
(02:41):
Settle. Yeah, exactly.
I get it. Yeah.
So 2023, there were 17 riders qualified because of ties at the
list. We'll look at that in a minute.
But just to do an overview, thisis the basic big data points,
because the world gets they follow the scores and they
(03:02):
follow the score spreads and they follow the individual
scores. So 76 1/2 percent was the
officiating performance level onscore spreads.
Now, there's more to it when youtalk about officiating and truly
evaluating that performance, butthe score spreads alone, what
that's measuring is score spreads and 17 runs that are two
(03:23):
points or less. So 76 1/2 percent, 76% of the
runs were within a two point spread.
That's what it says. We can look at the entire
placing the high score on here is giving you the average of all
17. And there was actually two runs
of the 17 that were kind of bombers.
So they pull that average down just a little.
(03:46):
But it's less than 1/2 a point. So we can pull anyone that you
want. Top five, top ten.
The top five scores are right there.
Last year's top score was at 2:31.
That's exactly what it was. The top five scores 2:28 to
2:31. And we just, we're having this
big come apart with the industry, you know, a couple
months ago with the Derby in theDerby winner.
(04:07):
So this is where our sport is and this is the best of the
best. Top ten last year, 225 1/2 to
231. I thought that was very
interesting. Median right slap in the middle,
225 1/2. And the mode which we're now
measuring was a 225 1/2 again. So what was the most frequent
(04:27):
score? 225 1/2, which was also right
slap in the middle. Here's an interesting piece.
This is the best of the best. 5%of all maneuvers received a + 1
1/2. That's what that left hand
diagram is showing you. 5% of all maneuvers last year received
a + 1 1/2, and we'll show you the breakdown of that.
(04:49):
The thing that's very interesting is when you look at
penalties, did penalties determine the winner?
No, but percent, 65% of all runshad penalties in it.
And the real thing is when you look at non unanimous and we've
been talking about this for a while because over 3/4 of those
(05:10):
penalties were not unanimous. So do they start to sort out
$1,000,000 purse in a different format depending on how those
officials kind of perceive it and play it?
And the non unanimous penalties was 53%.
So that's 3/4 of 65. That's that's what it says, yes.
And that's that's incredible. And hell yeah, it's going to
make a difference in a paycheck for sure.
(05:32):
And if it's costing me money, I'm going to want to know who in
hell called up and who the hell didn't, right?
I mean, it kind of used to be, it used to be like who scored me
higher and who scored me lower? And now it's like, OK, who threw
that half point penalty in therethat cost me a lot of money or
what? Two guys did it, but in a non
unanimous spot. I think, you know, I don't have
the numbers here in front of me.I'm sure you do.
(05:53):
In our top ten placings. Where did we have our ties at?
I can show you right here, therewas a two way tie at 3rd and 4th
with a score 229 1/2 and then there was a tie at six and 7th
that was a score 226. And then there was a three-way
tie at 8-9 and 10 score 225 1/2,which is why that 225 1/2 comes
(06:19):
up as the most high frequency out of 17.
That's the why, But that's the answer.
Show your top ten horses, which is top five horses take almost.
It's 75% of the $1,000,000 purses distributed in those top
five spots. So that's where it is, and
(06:39):
that's why we looked at those top five scores, 2:28 to 2:31.
OK. So, but we actually, we, what we
did is we had 1-2, three horses tied, two horses tied for, I
mean actually 345, we had seven.We had the potential for seven
horses to be tied on up 10 basically is what you're saying.
That is correct. Yeah.
(06:59):
And it, yeah, it would bring #1 to question where that top five
spot, especially when we had thetie for 3/4.
The fifth horse obviously was, was a single.
He was by himself. Do you have the numbers in front
of you that tell me, tell us what?
Our sixth horse scored the tie for 6th and 7th.
If you give me a second, I can, yes.
(07:20):
And then we had 226 tied for 6thand I think that's that was the
number you told me. OK, first, first part of the
question was what was the difference between 5th and 6th?
What are our fifth place horse score?
5th place horror scores at 228. OK.
And then you had a tie for 6th and 7th with 226?
(07:41):
OK. And then it dropped to two, only
there's a half points differencebetween 8th, 9th and 10th and
6th and 7th. Is that correct?
That's correct, 226 for the 6th and 7th, and then a 225 1/2 for
the Tide 8th, 10th. Yep.
Yeah. OK.
All right. Well, I mean, there's a pretty
significant difference between the 3rd and the 4th place horses
(08:03):
at at the 229 1/2 and the 228. I mean, I, I think that
separation was good, six and 7thof the 226 from the 8-9 and ten.
I struggle with that one a little bit.
If I were showing two, you know half points difference between
12345 horses, right? Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it would be, you know, kind of part of the thing
(08:24):
that makes us, that makes it difficult is and because I just
talked to our our good friend and our client Aldo Ramona and I
said, have you checked? Because I haven't, I haven't
even looked. And do you have access?
Can you, because he's in Mexico.I said, are you going to be able
to pull it up? And he said, yes, I am.
And it's what makes it what makes it difficult for us is
that we is that we can't watch it unless we're there.
(08:45):
Right this. Year you can a couple different.
They have several different batches available here in the
US. Can you pay-per-view and get
Saturday's finals? The answer is yes.
It's a pay-per-view option through their website
runforthemillion.com, and you can get it, that is.
(09:06):
Correct. OK, good.
Well, that's really good becauseI didn't know.
I knew last year that there weresome packages available to you
in the States, but the Saturday finals was not one of them.
You could watch anything. You ought to butt back.
So yeah, you had access to different pins, but you didn't
have access to funds. So that's really good.
I'll show you that. I probably need to pay a little
bit more attention to it then, but yeah, OK.
Well, cool. No, no, I, I'm, I I will be
(09:28):
interested to see. And these numbers are really
neat. And the thing that I think that
they're neat about is we're not very many days away from having
a comparison. No, no, it's, you know, it's
coming quick and that's why I wanted to jump on and kind of go
over this quick so that we couldlook at last year's numbers and
then I think it's going to be fascinating as we see what
happens this year. So yes, that I'll bet there's a
(09:52):
number of horse people across the world that are probably
going to have $1,000,000 finals watching party, whatever you
want to call it, the $1,000,000 watch party.
How much fun would that be? Yeah.
There's no question. This is kind of like the, I
mean, it's our version of Kentucky Derby week.
This thing is, you know what I mean?
It's yeah, yeah. I think it's phenomenal.
(10:14):
So here's the next one. This is the score spread because
again, this is what the industrysees first.
This is generally we're about asfar as they go.
This just looks at it and your score spread rate of the
officials 76 1/2 percent. That's it's kind of normal.
It's what we've seen in the lastcouple years.
That's about where they are. We'll get to this in a minute.
Last year was pattern nine. This year they're going to run
(10:37):
pattern 10, which is similar, but the there's a degree of
difficulty that is distinctly different between those two
patterns, making last year's pattern tougher than this
year's. So we'll get to that in a
second. But this just lets you see the
score spreads by the batches so you can see how many did it.
(10:58):
Maximum spread last year out of 17 runs was four points.
You had one run that had a four point spread.
You know, you got 25% of those runs.
We're 2 1/2 to four points. Can you go find the answers of
why that happens? The answer's yes.
Is that somewhat normal in our sport?
(11:19):
The answer's yes. How can we make it more
accurate? That's the one that you and I
have been after. So we're we're working on that.
The next one is when you drill it down, this is using the
scale. So this is looking at the
maneuver level and all the marksthat go with it.
(11:39):
So what it's showing you, and wecan drill down to it in any way
that you want. And then what it's showing you
now is the actual number as opposed to the percent because
34 of all maneuvers, 34 maneuvers of all maneuvers
marked in last year's received a+ 1 1/2.
(12:00):
So that's where that 5% comes from.
There was 680 maneuvers marked across 5 official 17 runs, eight
maneuver pattern pattern. 934 ofthose maneuvers received a + 1
1/2. What this graph shows you is
where plus one. And now you just you have to
look because it's in a ascendingorder plus 1 1/2 is right slap
(12:22):
in the middle at 5% correct score of 0 at 12 1/2 percent.
It's right here when I highlightit plus one is the next 135.3%.
So plus one, all maneuvers. Last year, 35% of them received
a plus one maneuver and 42% received a plus half, which is
(12:43):
not new news because you're looking at the best of the best.
This is the best the sport has to offer.
Best riders and they have the absolute open door or picking
the best horses available and getting them ready. 3/4 of all
the maneuvers are being marked between good and very good,
(13:04):
which is plus half and plus one.That's what it's saying.
I don't think that that's new news to any of us.
I think the big one is the 5%, because what they're having
difficulty with is the fine distinctions of high quality.
And I agree. And I think, you know, we've
talked about needing more tools for these guys to use and more
(13:24):
tools in the toolbox which are there, I mean they're available.
But even with the system that wecurrently are using, I think
that, you know, I, I had this thought.
I do have to say that I didn't see last year.
So I didn't see the 2023. I was not there.
I didn't see it online. I have not talked to judges.
I have not talked to spectators about it.
(13:46):
We saw Jason's run, but I mean, you know, the rest of those I
haven't seen. You know, I didn't talk to
judges, didn't talk to competitors.
But I the question that I would put to the current riders, I'd
put it to our judges, I would put it to our viewing audience
is an excellence rate of 5% where we're at.
(14:10):
I mean this, you just said it yourself, this is the best
riders that we have to offer thequalified this year.
They have access to horses of any age.
I mean, heck, they probably haven't even picked the ones
that they're going to go with yet.
I mean, the numbers don't lie. The numbers tell us that what
they're saying to us is that only 5% of maneuver evaluation.
And again, there were a couple runs that were bombs in there.
(14:31):
You know, we said that ourselves.
So, you know, maybe penalty application takes an effect on
more of maneuver quality, but 5%to me it seems like is that, is
that a good spot? I, I'm saying no, it is not
because these are the best of the best.
And if all we have to offer for and it doesn't say perfection,
it says excellence. If that is all that we have to
(14:57):
offer for our sport, where are we going, right?
I mean, I, I think that I think the stuff that we see is
unbelievable with today's ridersand today's horses.
I mean, I we, we say that time and time again.
It is so, so much fun to watch and unbelievable to guys our age
that had to start with stuff that that couldn't even warm up
the bottom end of today's horses.
(15:19):
So yeah, I think that excellenceby that word, that description,
I think it should be higher. I I agree with you.
Let me share this with you real fast because this was this
year's Derby finals and I'm bringing up the highlight to the
plus one and a half one point, 1% of the maneuvers in the Derby
(15:39):
finals were were marked at a plus one and a half 1.1.
So when you make the reference to is 5% is 5% where industry is
the answer is that is what we'remarking it.
The real question is, is that accurate?
And I think your question of where are we going because
(16:00):
everything is pushing us forwardand up and the officiating
system is having a very hard time with keeping up with that
pressure. That's true.
So where does the sport go? That's the bigger one.
And you know you and I have beentalking about it all year.
Excellence comes in a lot of different forms.
And our job is to find it, identify it, market, quit
(16:23):
comparing. That's it.
As a sport, though, we're struggling there because and,
and you remember this, it wasn'tthat long ago when we were very
active in the officiating side, that plus one we struggled to
use plus one. It took time, it took skill, it
took a little bit of effort. We're at the same spot.
(16:44):
I'd tell you we've been here forthree or four years on using
plus 1 1/2 and we're not using it enough and we're not using it
accurately. So that's my take.
On that one, I know. No, I couldn't agree more.
I was just, you know, I was thinking about that when we were
involved in this thing. If we would have told you that,
you know, if you would have toldus that our officials were using
plus one at 35% of the time, we'd have gone well.
(17:08):
Thank goodness. I mean, we wouldn't have
believed it, right? I mean, I, so I there is
improvement for sure, but I, yeah, Snoblin would have had,
John would have had he had a field day if they would have
said with used at 35% of the time, right.
This doesn't mean that, oh Gee whiz, that's good.
And we're just going to give it a + 1 1/2 because we're not
using it enough. That's not where we're at.
(17:28):
I think that the industry if theriders themselves, the judges
who are, you know, professionalsthemselves, I mean your
committees, whatever, they have to define that and they have to
teach it and that's what's not being done.
Yes, and I agree with you. Not only teach it, but then they
got to manage it, which is important.
You're right. And are we seeing it all the
(17:49):
time, single digit and below? Single digit is what we're
seeing as an industry, which means it's not getting used.
And the rest of that is the accuracy.
So you're 100% correct. Now this one's got some
interesting points along with it.
What's significant it it does want to get a little busy and we
worked hard to not. What this does is look at all
the maneuver groups from zero toplus 1 1/2.
(18:11):
So plus 1 1/2 is the big doughnut to the right and then
zeros in the middle. Plus half is right there to the
left and plus one gets to the far left.
The colors are directly correlated to the same
maneuvers. As you look across those
maneuver groups, you can see what maneuver it was getting in
(18:32):
the score. The orange for example, is the
same across all of them. The purple is a stop and
hesitate. So as an example, stop and
hesitate got very little in the plus 1 1/2.
It got a lot in the zero and then it's about a little bit
more in the plus half and just asmidgen more than that in the
(18:54):
plus one. That's kind of where the common
denominator is and can let you look at it fast and let it tell
you the story that it's trying to tell you.
You're right on the tools this. I mean, this is just such a
great chart because it defines what happened and it's easy to
understand. So I say, yeah, there have been
a lot of times that I wished I'dhave had these to work with,
(19:16):
right? Well, we all did and we didn't,
but we do now. How do we use these tools to
manage, prep, educate and perform at a level that the
competition, I think the competition and definitely the
economics. The I have not spoken to an
owner, a breeder, a wannabe buyer, any of those that isn't
(19:39):
talking about same thing becausethe economics are significant,
which we all dreamed about, but now comes with it the rest of
the responsibility and that's where we are.
Absolutely. And we have, you know, you and I
personally have talked at lengthabout this and there are
multiple ways to make this more accurate and easy ways to teach
it too. So there, there is not only some
room for improvement, but there are ways to make the improvement
(20:01):
significant. And I think that there are ways
to make it better fast. I mean, I don't think this is
five years down the road. I think that you can you can
make a make a significant difference in our in our the
accuracy of our officiating and.Short time.
Yes, that's a no brainer in my book.
Look at what we're doing. I could tell you at the first
drag, technology will let us do things that we couldn't do
(20:23):
before in a multitude of different formats.
And so that's kind of where you are.
And the answer is yes all day and no, it your your days and
weeks. You're not years away.
Yeah, I agree. Well, I, you know, I am, I am
excited. I wish, I wish that I were
there. Amy and I were laughing about
(20:45):
that. We just kind of got back from a
from an extended vacation. We had a great time And and I
said, well, she said, well, whatabout the run for me?
And it's kind of like going to the national finals now, though
it's I said, you know, you probably have to get your room
reserved now for next, for the next 25.
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's a it's a little
difficult to get to it, but man,I'm sure that that place is
(21:05):
buzzing. Oh, I'm sure it is too.
That's as good as it gets for the industry.
I actually took my family to thevery first one and we had a
wonderful time out of it. I think again, we're back to
technology and I'm all about pay-per-view all day long.
Do I think that our industry should be?
And now you can have your own conversation on what's the value
(21:28):
and what it's worth. But is it worth paying?
And can you create some of your own watch parties and have this
sport growing some added dimensions?
The answer is yes, that's where we are.
I hear you loud and clear. And but yes, if you haven't
gone, you need to go. And if you're thinking about it,
pay-per-view for this year and then make your reservations next
(21:50):
Monday for next year. I had an interesting
conversation with Mike Davis, who's on the board of directors
for NRHA at the North Central Running Horse Association for
Charity show last weekend. Mike had said we were talking
about the pay-per-view and he said, hell, I'm all for it.
He said, for crying out loud, you spent 30 bucks in
McDonald's. Now he said why, Why?
Why wouldn't you know what's what's 25 or 50 bucks to watch
(22:11):
something that you want to watchor 100.
It doesn't matter. I mean, gather 10 people.
Yeah, pay-per-view to watch something great.
People do it to watch fights, football games, whatever.
I get it. Yep, without agree.
Yep. So the last piece that we're
going to talk about real quick. This is the qualified riders
list 2023. Last year there were 17.
(22:33):
There's sixteen this year and the blue highlights are the new
ones, so that they're the ones that got qualified this year
that weren't there last year, which is 44%, almost half, which
I think is way cool. The qualifying itself is way
cool. Our sport, no sport, nobody is
(22:53):
doing what this sport is doing, which is getting qualified in
March for an event in August. I mean, take any other
professional sport and as they go to their pinnacle playoffs,
you're within weeks of that peak.
And so ours is creating a whole nother opportunity here that I
think is just fascinating. I think there's a couple cool
(23:15):
things in here. One last year you had a mother
and son that were competing and one of them was a non pro.
That was Mandy McCutcheon and her son Cade who's a up and
coming very dominant pro. Now this year you got a father,
son and because we're an individual sport.
Are they competing against each other?
(23:35):
Yes. Does the boy want to beat Pops?
Yes. Yeah, dethrone dad for sure.
I mean, and I I think there are a couple things that that come
to mind too. And I look at the list.
First of all, you know, with Anne Funk, you know, the ladies
and we've talked about this all the time.
This is the one sport where you're equal.
I mean, it doesn't matter if you're if you're a man or a
woman. And Anne is obviously no
(23:56):
stranger to the women at any way, shape or form.
It's I'm glad to have her here. I think that's cool.
And and Casey, I've known you for I don't know how long, 40
years, I don't know forever, butI think that Casey Hinton and I
don't, I don't know exactly how old Casey is.
I just I know how old I am. So I mean, but I am telling you
that for a guy that's significantly older than
(24:19):
everybody else on this list, I think with maybe the exception
of Dwayne, but you know, just tosee Casey qualify two years in a
row, this deal ain't easy to easy to get the call up for.
That's fantastic. You're bringing a very important
point, which is the horse equalizes all that stuff.
So is it age dependent and is itgender dependent?
And the answer is no. And it never was, you know, rest
(24:42):
in peace. Doug Williamson just passed, so
you know, and he rode and competed all his life, you know,
can you, if that's what you wantto do, yes, you can.
I agree with you on both those. Dwayne and Casey Hinton both
are, you know, Dwayne might be alittle bit younger than us, but.
Yeah, I think, I mean, that's fantastic.
And I, you know, I mean, and obviously the returning riders
(25:03):
in addition to Casey Hinton, youknow, those guys, the one thing
that all of these guys and gals have in common is they got
access to a good livestock because you know what I mean?
And we've had that conversation before.
Nobody's going to tell you what horse that they're going to show
because, yeah, I mean, they might have a pretty good idea,
but they they're they're leavingtheir options open, huh?
(25:24):
I think if you go back in our time, you remember when
substitution on age events used to be such a hot topic and
everybody had to beat the daylights out of it.
This is proving that substitution is a not issue.
Never should have been, isn't. Should you be able to look after
(25:44):
your horse and put in a good sound horse regardless of the
rest of those scenarios as long as you had the access to the
stock? And the answer is yes, we made
that very hard for a long time. This is proving the fact that it
that's not necessary. And no, they haven't declared
what horses. I'd love to have one of these
(26:05):
guys on or a couple of them and just talk about once they're all
qualified in March, you got 16 that all know they're going now.
What does that look like for thenext four months?
Not only selecting the horse, but then training it, managing
it, then getting down to how many do you take to the event?
(26:26):
I don't know. Do they take two or three and
then wait until Friday to reallymake up their final?
Just, I don't know that. But I all of that fascinates me
because it's one horse, one rider, and you don't get to do
two or three like we've always done.
Right, I had AI had a thought about that along that line too.
(26:46):
And our Chelsea, I mean, I only claim to her too, even though
she's your daughter, right. So anyway, our Chelsea, she
posted something the other day that said what she's going to
she was looking for questions because what was she going to
do? Sean and Andrea and Casey deary
going to do some interviews withthose guys.
And I I thought about this and Ididn't push this question
through for Chelsea. Sorry.
(27:08):
What would have been fun? I, I should have done it when I
had the thought, but you and I've talked about horses and
livestock and leveling the playing fields and all that kind
of stuff. But I, I would have liked her to
have asked those three and, and say first look, take the
self-service out of this question, OK, You can't, don't
think about yourself. I would like you to think about
(27:28):
the industry itself and the sport.
If you ask these guys the question, do you think that it
would benefit the sport if you were allowed to show one or two
horses Max in our major events? What would your answer be?
Because you've obviously said I only get to show 1 here.
I, I get to pick it whenever I want, but I get to only show
one. And you're not crying and
(27:49):
raising the roof about, Oh my gosh, I need to be able to show
3 here. I mean, you're following the
rules. It's easy, but I would be
interested. I think there would be some
benefit for our sport. I've said that many, many times
that you get to show three horses.
That rule was made what in 1960?What?
6. Yeah.
(28:09):
So anyway, it can be time for a change too, but I would be
interested to hear those three and what their personal opinion
was on that question. I think it's a great question
and I think that'd be a phenomenal conversation to have
as a round table again in today's time.
I think you're on something. Should riders be able to buy an
(28:30):
entry slot for any given event? Yes, but one and then take
whatever horses and up until whenever management's going to
make the draw, that's when you'dhave to declare which one and
could you still substitute up tothe time of going in the pent?
I hear you loud and clear. I've been a big proponent of
(28:51):
fewer. It would open the door for a lot
of things how we manage horses, but a bigger door that would
open is up and coming pros and the riders coming up and through
and could you manage those horses and the business that
goes with it in a equally if notmore productive fashion for
(29:11):
everybody? I think the answer is yes.
But it it'd be great one to havea round table on.
Maybe we can round one up. Whatever.
It would certainly be fun. But yeah, I mean, it's an
interesting list of riders. Yeah.
Like I said, any one of this list of this year is capable of
winning this event. It's not like, oh Gee, you know,
(29:32):
it'd be interesting to know whatthe sports books would say on
this if you're allowed to wager someone who's going to set the
handicap on it. But it would be.
It would be interesting for sure.
Then Quarter Horse News just published an article asking this
question. They asked the 16 riders what
horse they were going to ride and it was published 2 days ago.
There's 20 some horses that theyall made reference to and Court
(29:55):
Horse News did a follow up with horses that each of those riders
had been showing in the last time frame.
I don't know if it was 12 or 18 months.
It was a great article. 21 horses get specific reference to
those 16 riders. I was looking at the age of the
horse and the sex of the horse. Most of them are studs.
There's a couple geldings and Luca had two mares that they
(30:17):
made reference to. I don't know what horses they're
going to ride. What was very interesting was
when you started looking at the age, because we're going to see
horses depending on who they select from five and six year
olds to teens. I expect to see some horses that
are going to be somewhere in the8910, could be 12 years old
(30:42):
depending on which one they select.
And that just fascinates me to all in.
And maybe it's because we were part of that group that we used
to always think about the longevity of our sport and what
all that stuff meant. It's it's here now and this
event is the only one that's setting that whole new stage.
(31:03):
So I think that that's fascinating.
Talk about the distinct difference between pattern nine
last year and pattern 10 this year.
Do you think it's going to be easier for the officials or
harder? I actually think it, I think
it'll be a little bit more difficult.
And the only reason that I say that is that pattern 9, you
know, you've said it many, many times, it's, it's our, it's our
(31:24):
sports hardest and most difficult pattern because the
most difficult thing to do with precision is go from large, fast
lead change to slow, small and ideal case scenario.
I mean, I've plus 1 1/2 that setof circles on one horse in my
life, large, fast and pattern 9 to slow small.
I mean, one time and I ran it a lot on a lot of nice horses.
(31:48):
So it's very, very difficult to do the guys today and the horses
today, the lead changes have become second nature.
I mean these things can go do a western riding pattern.
I mean they're so good, so slow small to slow small and horses
that are very relaxed now that like they are going from slow
solid to small. It's pretty and you know, I
(32:09):
mean, I'm just saying the degreeof difficulty is not as high
with as with pattern 9. What with the degree of
difficulty being lower, it's going to make the decision
making harder, right? When I think what happens and I
only say I think what happens isbecause I've done it, I've
watched a a horoscope show in pattern 10 and I may go wow,
(32:33):
strong. Is that a one?
And then I end up one in the second set because it's, you
know, the circle and you know what, they were identical and I
should have said one. One is then a half one, you
know, I mean, it's what happens.So I think if guys are going to
separate in this pattern, you need to be jumping in the middle
of that first set of circles andthe second set of circles
because it'll give you room to sort.
(32:55):
You know, sometimes we get a little where am I supposed to
go? Because we don't have maybe
don't have enough tools in the toolbox to fit that evaluation.
So anyway, that's that's just two cents from a guy who's
judged a couple. And I know you've done it, but
it also. A couple, yeah, go to
cowboyoffice.com, put your e-mail in, ride along with us.
Don't forget to hit the subscribe button on the platform
(33:17):
of your choice. We appreciate all of you and
that's what keeps us going. Do stay tuned.
We will be doing a post event indepth analysis, so it'll just
follow up on this now that we'vegot data and stats from years
previous. Everybody that's not there, grab
your friends, do the pay-per-view.
Have a good time watching it. It'll be phenomenal and we'll
(33:38):
see you soon. So until next time, enjoy the
ride. Hey, until next time, stay in
the middle. Can't wait for the next one.
Today's episode is brought to you by 40 productions in
cooperation with the Consultant Agency, a full service agency
that helps bring forward thinking equine brands into the
(33:59):
21st century using digital skills and services such as
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production such as the podcast you're consuming here today.
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