EP #39 : AWWA and The Ranch Horse Challenge with Jesse Chase

AWWA and 2023 Champion Jesse Chase talk about the dynamic program and how good it is for him as a trainer and his horses. It builds versatility, fun and quality of working western horses. As we approach 2025 and the Ranch Horse Challenge at the Arabian Nationals in Tulsa, OK, Jesse's input is invaluable.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Cowboy Office Show where you'll experience
expert analysis and epic discussion on key pillars of the
equine industry including sports, business, hobby and the
horse lifestyle. Your Co hosts are Jodi Brainerd
and Brian Dyker, industry veterans with over 120 years
combined living the cowboy lifestyle.
The Cowboy Office Show will helpyou get involved, ask more

(00:20):
questions and create change. We'll keep riding for you as
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better to our horse, and make our industry better for all.
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(00:41):
today's show. Hello horse world.
Ranch riding has hit the westernworld pretty strong.
The western lifestyle leads to working western disciplines in
competition. Our world reigning cow, horse
cutting and now ranch riding. Today's the third in a four part
series as we explore the ArabianWorking Western Alliance, also

(01:03):
known as a WWA and their Ranch Horse Challenge.
Welcome the cowboy office. I'm Brian.
And I'm Jody. Hey, the AWWA is more than ranch
riding. And while it highlights the
Western lifestyle that reaches into other breeds such as the
Arabian horse, today we have oneof the first champions of the

(01:24):
AWWA Ranch Challenge in 2023. See Chase from North Carolina.
True professional in the horse world.
Jesse, I've known you probably long than I even care to admit.
Welcome to Cowboy office. Hey, thank you for having me on.
I'm happy to be here. You know, Jesse, you've been a
long time as well as the owner of the Rings Talon to Tahili.

(01:44):
So tell us about splitting your time and the goal setting that
you go through as all trainers do at some point in time.
Because you know, I've ridden the Arabians myself and had some
success and and trained some. So tell us about what your life
is like when you're splitting your time and your goal setting
with the reigning, say, the NRHApart of it with the Arabian

(02:05):
Rainers, the cow horse and the AWWA Ranch Challenge.
I mean, that's a that's a playful.
So how do you manage? I think this is struggle.
Every horse trainer goes throughit.
You know, you got to remember her husbands and fathers and and
trying to balance family lifestyle.
I own my own ranch, trying to balance repair the IT does get

(02:26):
overwhelming. And you know, I just take it one
step at a time. Of course, focus on my reigning
tea thirty horses. Those are the ones that need the
most attention and just prioritize.
And then as each show's coming up, I'll try and adjust the down
training and the up training forwhatever the next next event I'm
going to is. So if it is an Arab show, I'm

(02:48):
going to really be pushing and prioritizing those horses,
building them up to that show. And some of the other horses,
they're going to keep going withtheir training, but I'll let
their workload be lighter. I think that's best for training
anyway. I did go through a spell where I
really, really struggled with it, where I, I go to a horse
show and maybe win, maybe have areally great show.

(03:10):
And I kind of be like, why, why?Why am I not happy?
Why am I not like, proud of whatI've accomplished here?
And the answer was, I was just so relieved to have gotten
through it because the pressure and trying to reach those goals
and all I was feeling was like relief too.
I finally pulled that rabbit outof a hat.
Now go on to the next one. And I've learned overtime just

(03:33):
the kind of take a step back, look at it, work on what I need
to work on when I need to work on it, and let my priorities
shift and be more fluid. And that's helped me a lot.
I think I think that's a great answer and I think I
congratulate you because both Brian and I have had experience
with that exactly that self thatdepartments that you're talking
about trying to mark mentalize those things and and it can be a

(03:58):
handful, but I think that probably part of today, because
it's become so specialized. We are and you know, there's not
enough, you know, Brian and I are of a significant age where
we're we're a clique above you and and guys your age.
We're missing that spot to wherethere used to be more of that
that all around trainer, that guy that and I don't want to say
all around trainer, but that person that could actually do

(04:19):
more than one thing because it'sbecome so specialized.
Now you're either I'm training raining horses or I'm training
non pro raining horses or I'm training western horses and
someone that can actually tackleall those.
I, I believe that different sections of the country, you
have different people that, that, like their specialized,
you know, their specialized horse.
Someone over here likes their Arabian.

(04:40):
And where can I go? Well, I can go Jesse because
he'll ride it and he'll do a good job on it.
And I'm a riding horse trainer or I'm a someone and I say, hey,
look, I, I don't have room to ride this thing.
Where can I send it? Jesse, can you ride it for me?
So I, I, I don't think there's enough of you left anymore.
I'd like to see more of you guysthat can handle that.
I would congratulate you on whatyou do and I look forward to

(05:03):
having your input on some of these questions that we're going
to ask you here. Without, without a doubt, I
would add one more step to it and the question, I think Jody
hits a lot of it right on the nail.
But Jesse, my first big question, Do you see more guys
your age coming into our industry or is it basically the

(05:26):
same set of guys you've seen many years?
No, I feel like I actually feel like the old guy myself when I
go to the shows and, and there'sso many people warming up
showing that I don't recognize. I don't know who they are.
They're and they're winning. They're I should know who they
are. If you know, if I don't know
when I show up, a lot of them, Iknow by the time I leave,

(05:47):
they're doing a good job. And they're, they're, I think
the education in our industry is, is so much better.
You guys probably remember we just sort of floundered along in
the beginning and got a little help from so and so or a little
bit from this person or, you know, drug leads all year.
And finally, somebody grabbed usby our ear and pulled us aside

(06:09):
some older trainer and you know,taught us how to change leads.
These these young kids, they're so well educated in the training
programs, what the judges are looking for and most of them
have shown as youth kids. And then they're they're jumping
up and becoming trainers. The starting place for them is
that at a much higher level thanit than it was for us.

(06:31):
Now that being said, the guys that that are older, I know of a
young guy, he really wants to get into the raining, really
wants to train raining horses. He's probably in his mid.
He didn't grow up in it. That's a real struggle.
He he's, he's trying to break into an industry without all
that knowledge. And I help him where we can, but

(06:51):
I can really see him struggling not having that.
Great to hear. Now tell me, tell me as you
cross disciplines and breeds building fraternity horses, you
obviously got to be building fraternity horses not only for
the random fraternity, but also for the Arabian random
fraternity. Is that correct?
That is, yeah, I I can go with alittle less broke horse.

(07:17):
The junior horses and the futurity horses and the
Arabians, it's 3-4 and five yearolds.
Those are all futurity horses. So generation, of course, we
know it's all three-year olds and then they become Derby
horses. So you've got, not everybody
shows there. A lot don't show them as 3 year
olds. I do if I have one that's good
enough. The, the you've got three years,

(07:39):
you're showing that horse and a Snapple bit.
And it's not that you're allowedto show them as Snapple bit.
You have to. So that alters that training
process and kind of your mind and your state where you're at.
It becomes more about keeping that thing solid, putting down a
solid run, keeping it, respecting the Snapple and being

(08:02):
able to, I guess, have a really good clean run, more than, hey,
I need a clean run with huge dynamic maneuvers.
That makes sense. So yeah, just a little different
mentality, more more focused on just being solid and less on, I
guess just that raw athleticism.And I'm going to ask you one

(08:22):
more question from the owner's standpoint, do you see about an
equal demand coming from the Arab stock horse side, people
that are breeding Arabs that want the Arab stock horse versus
the advanced stock horse of the quarter horse?
I mean, they already are are a stock horse, but the quarter
horse is now so diversified in what it's doing when we talk

(08:43):
about the the Western disciplines, the advanced ones,
raining, cutting cow horse roping.
So you having a very specializedset of skills in that area, but
now you're crossing 2 huge versatile breeds.
So Mike, my curiosity is in today's time, a breeder that's

(09:04):
breeding Arabs for Western stockor stuff, is that somewhere
equal to the same demand of what's happening in our Western
disciplines cutting rain and cowars in today's time?
There's this a little bit of a hole in the Arabian industry
whatsoever. I will say the Arabians, when we
talk about versatile and QuarterHorse, what we're saying is

(09:27):
across that breed, those horses can compete in a lot of
different events, but the reigners are specialized to the
reigning, the cutters are specialized to the cutters,
where the Arabians are more truly versatile.
You're going to use that same horse to go across those
disciplines. You're going to use the same 1.
So to me, the Quarter Horse breed is versatile, but also the

(09:51):
Arabian horse itself, the individual is versatile.
I remember early on starting andlooking at a young horse, it was
like a 2 year old. Somebody was starting and they
were talking about whether it was going to be.
They weren't sure if it was going to be a Western pleasure
horse or a hunter. Think about that.
Yeah. It's like, yeah.

(10:17):
So there's, I think it's really,really easy to to bash the
Arabian because it doesn't do what the quarter horses can do
in the raining. It doesn't do what they can do
on the cows. It's not at the same level.
But at the same time it's truly versatile.
I try and do at least 2 events with everyone of mine.
If I'm going to have a Rainer, they're probably going to do the

(10:38):
raining and the ranch riding. They might do the raining and
the cow horse. They might do a cow horse and
ranch riding. I try and do at least 2 events
with with every horse that I ride.
OK, so let me let me take a stepjust back a little bit and and
ask you this question. And Brian and I have had this
discussion many, many times and a lot of it on this show.

(11:00):
And you know, I emptied the barnout five or six years ago
because I didn't have to do it anymore.
And it was, it was something that, I mean, it was I had a
successful career. I enjoyed the heck out of it.
It enabled me to retire. I would do it again in a
heartbeat. But there's a time when you get
to a certain age, it's like, youknow what, it's somebody else's

(11:20):
turn. But Brian and I, when we,
because we've done so much from the officiating standpoint or
from the judging and from the committee work and the stuff
that we've done through NRHA, weare amazed at even at what
genetics has done in 10 years, in the last 10.
When we started this thing before your time, we were riding

(11:40):
some stuff that wasn't bred to be a Rainer.
We just made him a Rainer kind of like that, kind of like your
Arabian horse. Well, maybe it was going to be
a, maybe it was going to be an English horse.
Well, it doesn't work for that. So let's try to make it a
Rainer. That's what we would get to
ride. And it was, it was pretty rough
sledding. And you know, we were winning
money, you know, 1500 and 2000 bucks at a time and now they're
winning it $250,000 at a time because you know, the horses and

(12:03):
the genetics have changed stuff so fast.
So my question to you would be, is there room for that in the
Arabian breed itself if people wanted to build a specialized?
And I'm not trying to take away,my question is not to take away
from that because I've ridden Arabian Rainers and half Arabian
Rainers and trained them and made national champions on.

(12:23):
So I appreciate how good they are.
But my question would be, is there room if someone wanted to
start to specialize those Arabians to a ranch riding or to
a cow horse or terraining specifically is the room for
that? I do think there is a lot of
room for that. I do think that we could make a
lot more progress in the breeding.

(12:45):
One of my issues that I feel like a mistake from AHA
standpoint is the half Arabian thing.
So when you show the Arabians for your audience, I'll just go
over it quick, but you show yourpurebred Arabians primarily,
they just show against other purebred Arabians.
Then you have the half Arabian, which really isn't a breed.

(13:05):
It's it's more of a registry. So one parent has to be a
purebred Arabian. The other parent can be any
other kind of horse there is. So what happens a lot is people
will take a really good reigningthere and they'll go breeder to
Little Joe Cash or Gunner Special Night.
Those things are pretty dynamic.They're they're doing all the

(13:26):
same stuff as the NRHA. It sort of validates what we're
doing that Arabians can do this when they're crossed that way.
That's where you're going to seeyour higher quality event.
But now you just built a dead end St. into your breed because
those horses that are once they're half Arabian, they're
never going back into the bloodlines.
So you took your really, really good mare, read her to a quarter

(13:49):
horse stallion and effectively took her out of the gene pool.
So I felt like that's something that they need to address and
they should be incentivizing people to use Arabian stallions
on Quarter Horse mayors and get your half Arabs that way, rather
than pull those good Arabian mayors out of the team pool.
Interesting response. That is.

(14:11):
Yeah. So your answer to a potential
one potential solution is to incentivize more Arabian studs
to breed other breeds in mares as opposed to using the stock
horse Arabian mare and breed herto an outside stud, right?
Right. Yeah, because to me you've built

(14:33):
a dead end St. in two ways. You're that mayor's progeny can
never go back and advance the Arabian breed.
And you're also a thing that's hurtful, I think, to the
industry is every industry advertised through their
stallions. So now you're at the Arabian
show and they're picking some famous.
This one's by such and such, youknow, Great Saddlebred Stallion,

(14:57):
or this one's by Little Joe Cashor Vintage Smoke.
You're basically telling all your people that the the real
stallions they should be breeding to are outside of the
industry. It's something I really do think
needs to be addressed. I'm not involved in it in any
way. There's so many times I've seen
like a really good mare and I think she could have really
advanced the genetics of the breed and then those genetics

(15:20):
are pulled out to create half Arabs.
Right, bear with me. If you had a half Arab mare that
was of what you do, you know itsmother was a full blood Arab.
You breeder to a quarter horse reining horse and you get a half
Arab horse and you go do your stuff.
Your only choice back into the Arabian is to breed that to an

(15:40):
Arabian stud. That's your only choice because
you have got to, you have 1/2 Arab, you're going to have a
three quarter Arab, right? It's basically what you're
coming out with. Right.
And that's three quarter Arab isstill going to be registered as
1/2 Arab. Half Arab, right?
And that's why you're saying it's a dead end.
It's a dead end. I've seen it down.
There was a really Great Westernpleasure horse, top dog, and

(16:01):
somebody told me he was like by the time he'd been bred several
times, he was only one eighth, not Arabian.
Because that process, it happens3 or 4 times where 1/2 Arabian
daughter had bred, bred to an Arabian stallion.
But they never go back into the gene pool.
They never are going to advance the genetics of the tier bred

(16:21):
Arabians. But don't you feel, don't you
feel that? And it's been 30 years since
I've since I've tried to train anything to go to the Arabian
nationals from a, from a stallion standpoint.
And I would have two or three ofthose when I lived in the North
35 years ago, probably even that.
But even at that point in time, there was a great deal of bias

(16:42):
and there was a split opinion between the Arabian people
because all the horses that weresent to me to make the reigners
were the Polish line, you know, not the not the Egyptian line,
because in the Polish with greatbrained horses, physically big
and strong. And, and you know, I've ridden
lots of quarter horses that wereworse minded than those things
were. But you'd get to a show and

(17:02):
there would be this big split between, you know, if you had a
western saddle, you were kind ofat the bottom of the heap and
you were, you know, they, they wanted that Egyptian type or
that thing that was, that had much more art to it then maybe
performance. So is that still the case?
That is still the case. I don't know that there's a
bias, but the ones that are, a lot of the Egyptians are bred

(17:24):
for halter. A lot of the ones that are bred
to be halter horses, they, they have a lot of qualities that
just don't work for a working horse.
The real dish face, the real pointy ears, a lot of them,
they're not very good in the bridle.
If you, if you watch an Arabian halter horse and they set them
up, they set up real tall through there.

(17:44):
They put their neck way up. There's, you know, it's really
pretty, but they lock their knees and it and it's really in
the pedigree that they'll actually lock their knees and
plant their their front feet as they stretch out and put their
legs in. I'm probably saying everything
all wrong because I'm not a halter guy.
But if you try and ride one of those things and you get on them

(18:05):
the first time, they constantly just lock their knees.
And I just can't think of a worse trait to have in a working
horse than it wanting to lock its knees, lock its front feet
into the ground, right. We need that front end mobile.
We need the back end locking into the ground.
So there's a lot of that that just will they just won't work.
I will say and actually Jody, you were judging the first time

(18:28):
when I won my first national championship.
You were judging the horse I showed there was a flunk out
racehorse, Arabian racehorse andI've had several of those I tied
to win Scottsdale years ago on ahorse named in the last name is
the one that I won national. This would move it on over and
he had flunked off the off the racetrack.

(18:48):
He was big and strong and heavy boned my tied to win Scottsdale
and I lost the runoff to the famous horse Mozart.
John O'Hara was showing him, andI lost the runoff, $10,000
difference between 1st and 2nd place.
But it was fun anyway. Yeah, a lot of a lot of what
I've written, they started out on the racetrack.
They're heavy bone, they're heavy muscle and they're quieter

(19:11):
minded. They're not bred to do kind of
all that picking their head up and snorting and blowing and
presenting and, you know, pricking their ears way forward.
They're, they're bred to go to work.
Yeah. So talk about now that all of
that including breeding and horse selection and heading to

(19:32):
the AWWA because that's a discipline that is started
inside the Arabian and half Arabian horse.
And to my understanding, our understanding it's headed to be
a discipline open to any breed. It'll truly be a discipline
won't be a breed specific. So the AWWA is headed to

(19:54):
creating, moving to the WWA. But what I specifically am
asking about is everything you just made reference to in
breeding an Arabian working horse, a Western working horse
and then going down the path of competition.
And in today's time, now you've got the Arabian working Western

(20:15):
alliance as one of your selection criteria.
So what does that mean to? You as a professional and the
selection of the horse and when you tell him talk to your
owners, setting goals, all the rest of that.
You know, I don't know how much that that organization
specifically plays into what my goals are.
I think it builds infrastructurefor the industry, which the

(20:38):
Arabian breed could use more. We want to go show especially in
those cattle events and the reigning events and ranch riding
is huge so that that's kind of everywhere.
But we don't we don't have a lotof places to go show the rain.
We don't have a lot of places togo show.
The Cow Horse Nationals is the main place that I show.
Having that infrastructure. I'd love to see that.

(21:01):
The working Western Alliance, I would love to see them build
more shows, use all breed classes to support those shows
financially, and then have more infrastructure, more places to
go show. I think it would build.
It would go a long ways towards helping the industry grow.
Right now, Arabians are pretty small.
It's a small niche group. When you have one to sell, it's

(21:24):
a small market to sell to. It's fairly small and they they.
Really shrinking and shrinking it's, it's in a constriction.
So that's that's true, it's factual.
Yes. So they, I think they need the
infrastructure, you know, and you've been involved in show
management and NRHA, I've been on the NRHA board.
I'm president of our local club here.

(21:46):
So that growth is always a thought.
What's missing from the Arabiansis that infrastructure of places
to go show more if they want this portion of the industry to
grow, which they should because it's supporting so many other
breeds. And then you also think about
your trainers almost like a franchise.
So the more trainers you have that are willing to ride the

(22:09):
Arabians now, they become the welcome mat for owners, riders,
amateurs in the industry. So if we support our trainers
with more shows, they're available to the general public,
they're going to bring those public to the shows.
So that's that's how I I think of it anyway.
There definitely needs to be some active steps to try and

(22:30):
help that along. What's the inhibitor in having
more shows produced of the type that we're talking about if
anybody, if anybody out there wants to put on a horse show,
but we're specifically talking about some of this Western
discipline in the Awwa Ranch challenge.
So and Jody made reference to this half an hour ago.
Everybody in the horse industry today says it's too expensive,

(22:54):
so we have to pick how many shows we can go to because we
can only afford to go to so many.
So part of that would be the average consumer needs a more
affordable horse show. That's kind of the generic
statement. So if if I'm looking at it from
a business standpoint, where's the hole?
The hole is in the affordable weekend horse show because they

(23:17):
want to have fun, they want to learn something, they want to
challenge themselves, but they want it to be affordable.
Am I somewhere on target? I think you're on target for the
majority of people. So there there is a small group
of owners and riders that all they want to do is big events,
whether it's NRHA Futureity or Tulsa or 100 X shows.

(23:39):
They don't care how far they gotto travel, they don't care what
it costs. They just want to be at those
big events. But the majority of your horse
people, they want to go through.The gate, right?
They need to go through the gate.
They need to go through the gateand they need to go through the
gate a lot of times in a weekendto feel like they got their
money's worth. So that's where the industry

(24:01):
could that I don't know how it happens or the best mechanics
for it. But the first person, I feel
like the first group of people that really organized strong
open all breed type horse show platform that has the computer
knowledge, the office knowledge that has can organize judges and

(24:22):
bring in all these sort of smaller organizations under
their umbrella that creates that.
I think they're going to have a really, really strong
organization and they're going to they're going to bring our
industry forward a long, long ways.
That is discipline kind of focused.
I'm just right? Yes, yeah.
But it has to be that working Western, that's what people want

(24:43):
to do. They want to go dabble on a cow
a little bit. They want to go show the rail
class. They want to go show their
pattern, their ranch pattern. They, they, they want to dabble.
They might want to throw a rope a little bit.
They want to be able to have allthose chances to go through the
gate and all those all wearing cowboy attire.
That's what they want. And I, I just don't think that

(25:04):
Arabians have their numbers right to grow it.
But if that working Western alliance could become the
organization factor, of course their passion will be for the
Arabian breed. But if they build that platform,
all those other breeds help pay for it.
Challenges to think about it just a little bit different if
if you truly stayed focus on theranch challenge.

(25:26):
What's that end goal regardless of breed, let the best horse
win. We'll talk about that in a
minute. And if you wanted to stimulate
Arabian and half Arabian breeding or allow the market to
crossbreed some stock breeds, let them do whatever they want
to do and the rest of our world today.
The biggest conversation is ICSIbecause now you with frozen

(25:49):
semen and and killed semen. The gene pool in the horse
industry is the big conversation.
It takes some science and research and I I don't want to
go down that path too far. But the point is Jockey Club in
the thoroughbred race industry won't allow their live cover for
basically the reason that we're talking about.
So the point being an advanced discipline competition, you make

(26:13):
reference to it. Could you have a organization
that is absolutely focused on what you just talked about and
if you wanted to stimulate the Arabs, you just put an incentive
inside it without without doing it the other way around because
that's what they want to do. Now.
The quarter horses want to do ittheir way and the paints want to
do it their way, and then they have a little bit of an open

(26:36):
door for others. But you're not going to go spend
a week at the Quarter Horse World Show.
If you got a Morgan, you're not for one class.
Right, Yeah. And yeah, it kind of utilized
sister organizations. APHA does that a lot.
I know they they have like buckles and incentives.
The pious placing Paint horse, that's a futurity.

(26:58):
I've, I've even seen them over in France at the European Derby.
There was some representatives there and they do that a lot.
You promote your breeds through a sister organization somehow
some prizes and encourage them to offer the classes that you
want. And again, we're still building
that infrastructure where peoplehave a place to go show.

(27:19):
So absolutely it could work thatway.
No, I, I couldn't agree more. I was, I was kind of thinking
along those lines as we're as we're having that same
discussion. I don't know you the SBA just
got done in Tulsa. I don't know because they're
just dealing with a certain number of entries.
It doesn't make any difference. But if the AWWA or the Arabian
Horse Association, I don't really sure would if you if you
if someone in in charge of NSBA and said, hey, we would like to

(27:42):
add $100 ranch horse class or whatever with the for Arabians
only and it could be an option that they could enter yours
also. Why can't we do that?
I mean, who cares if there's 15 Arabians that show up and they
don't have to have 100 and it's not going to make any difference
in SBA because they're going to say, yeah, come on.
I, I promise they would say that.
I, I think the rain Cowboys association, if you said, let's

(28:04):
have a, let's have an Arabian class or let's add it to your
youth and, or to your, you know,limited non pro, I don't know,
let's let's add it and they go, sure, come on, who cares?
I mean, come, that's just another entry to them.
But you could have an Arabian champion at that show if you
wanted to. I'm just saying, why, why

(28:24):
wouldn't that work? If you, if you RHA say, hey, you
know, I mean, didn't Mandy Brumley a few years ago have
Arabians Arabian classes on her Vegas shows?
So yes, so why, why can't we do that in Oklahoma City and say,
Hey, you know, we're going to have, we're going to add, we're
going to add $5000 in the in thenon pro for Arabians or Arabians
and half Arabians and, and say, come on, let's go show.

(28:47):
I mean exposure. I think who cares?
They're just going to say, heck yeah, we're happy to have the
entries and let some people lookat it.
I'm just kicking it out and saying is it possible?
Yes, and and the Arabians have alittle, I think they call it the
star program where people can earn awards showing in other
industries through the, I don't know exactly the process, I
haven't done it, but they can win like a year end buckle or

(29:09):
win some prizes along the way asthey're showing in NRHA or NSBA,
stuff like that. They do have a small program
like that. It would probably need to be
ramped way up. OK.
Well, I'm just questions and I think the AWWA is a great start
for that. I'm just, I think that some of
some of you are, we've had the discussion about the Half
Arabians and the Purebreds, but you know, some of those horses

(29:31):
are so nice and it can be competitive with another breed.
So to say, Oh, Gee, we can't. I think that's wrong thinking
too. You know what I'm just saying
say, Oh my gosh, we need to staycompletely away from that.
I I think that I think when thatnice horse is a nice horse and,
and if the officiating is done as it's supposed to be done, who
cares what you're riding? I agree.

(29:52):
We'll we and a lot of our quarter word shows offer all
breed classes. We'll show Arabians in there as
well. OK, a lot of time schooling, but
and sometimes pretty successfully.
You know, I remember I was in AIthink it was 25 or 28 horse
class and I was second on an Arabian on a ranch rail class
ranch on the rail class recently.

(30:13):
So they, you know, if you have anice horse, a nice horse is a
nice horse. I agree.
And everybody is always that's that's been that's been tested
with time many times. And so that's 100% true.
The rest of us just people beingpeople.
We've got the 2023 Ranch Challenge champion that I,

(30:34):
you're going to know more about it 'cause you were there.
Jesse. Let's, let's run this quick.
And then Jesse, I want you to talk about it.
Strengths, weaknesses, what it means, where we going, how can
we be a part to advance it even more.
Let's see here. Here he comes.
Oh, yeah, that's, that's, I don't remember the name of this

(30:55):
horse, but that's a good friend of mine, Doug Stewart.
I think he's in Oregon, if I remember, if I said that wrong.
Sorry. Doug.
Yeah, this is a nice horse. This was the stallion.
Doug had a great year that year.In all of the ranch classes, you
see this a nice forward moving horse.
He's pleasant to watch. He's right between the reins
there. There is absolutely no like

(31:17):
resistance out of this horse. There's nothing Doug asked him
to do that this horse wasn't willing to do.
I remember this ride very well and.
And it looks ranchy. I mean he good lead change
there. It just looks like a good horse
that you would go work on the ranch.
I thought a lot of this run boy Doug was on fire that year.
He won so much. And so talk about while this run

(31:40):
is going about the officiating and can you not advance the
officiating not so subjective makes it more objective, but
then would even take you to a more elevated spot with the
weaknesses that the rest of us have identified in some of the
other advanced disciplines. Talk about it.
You know this. This has been run twice now, I

(32:02):
think. I think that's right.
We've done this two years now. I had no issue with the judging
at all. I I thought it was great every
time. It was really neat.
So we don't get to practice on this course at all.
We'll know what the course is a couple days in advance, but we
won't have seen any of the obstacles anything.
And they set the the course up and then we actually walk that

(32:23):
course with the judges. The judges are all there in the
arena and they take about 10, maybe 15 minutes.
And we we all have our little patterned paper in our hand and
we walk that course and the judges are given instructions
there. Look how good that thing handles
that rope and throw in that rope.
And that was just a good run andgood horse.

(32:43):
But we walked that pattern with the judges.
The judges are telling us what they're looking for.
We have a lot of leeway and how we can show it and place our
pattern to our best advantage. We have to stay on pattern.
But yours, it's not placed like a horsemanship class where it's
really, really specific where you have to put everything and
then you got to jump on. You got to do this class cold,

(33:04):
but your horse has never seen the obstacles, you've never
practiced it, you've never gone through it.
And I think that's a great appeal of this class.
There was some complaints about that.
And that was one thing they asked my opinion on.
I was like, heck no, keep it theway it is.
Let it be ranchy. Let it be a ranch.
Let it. There's been some talk about
having more times where the judges can evaluate the horses

(33:27):
movement, you know, movements really, really important.
I don't know that it should be ahugely important criteria on
this class. I'd like to see it stick with
your horses having stuff thrown at it.
It's being asked to do this, andI'd like to see it stay where
the horse that does everything the most efficiently, the most

(33:48):
willing, is the winner. And like that's next.
Delaying sample. That horse never told him no.
He just it went through there like a soul.
That horse deserved to win. Which everything that you guys
talk about is a ranch horse because no two days on the ranch
are ever the same. So it's about having a broke
horse that when you so do your day, you're prepared, right?

(34:08):
That's what you're talking. About that's how I look at it
and we don't want it to be trail, we don't want it to be
ranch riding, we don't want it to be ranch on the rail.
Those are all the this should have a different criteria.
You're taking ranch. Even if you think of a ranch
riding pattern, by the time we're done showing it, it's not
really ranch anymore, right? We've got, you know, fancy

(34:32):
outfits and, you know, manes andtails combed out and shiny.
This I would like to see stay more like ranch.
How do we move ranch through ranch into that arena and ask
that horse to do the things thatthey would do?
And that that's what makes this class special.
And I hope it stays that way. Yeah.
No, I hear you. Well, I, I think you've got the

(34:54):
door of opportunity is wide openfor you guys, all of you that
are involved in this aspect of it.
And I think your biggest opportunity is not making it
breed specific, but making it discipline specific, which would
then put it parallel to raining,cutting cow, horse roping have
have at it. Yeah.

(35:14):
And this is really, this is really a unique class.
It's unique to nationals. It's you can kind of look at it
and say, you know, the first year I was like, well, this is
just a ranch trail class. They're just calling it a ranch
challenge. And then last year we saw saw
the what the pattern was going to be on on paper, it looked
like a what you'd call city trail.
We all call it city trail class where it's more like the western

(35:35):
pleasure horses doing trail. And then boy, were we wrong when
they set that course up. It was not a trail to look like
one on paper, but it was not. It was much more like this.
We're asking those horses to do things that they're not seeing
on a day-to-day basis. And my actual congestion, I'm
going to keep pushing it, so I'mgoing to stay on here.
The first year this happened, they gave us a list of things

(35:59):
that could possibly be part of the pattern.
I remember one of them was like throw the rope, which it was.
One of them was load them on a horse trailer there, I think a
bridge, maybe work a gate, maybepush a cow somewhere.
I don't remember all the items on that list.
What I'd like to see happen is it early on in Nationals, all
those items be thrown in a hat and then they draw four or five

(36:22):
of those out of a hat. And then they've got a couple
days to put that pattern together.
And we were all there, you know,watching them as they pull out.
And I think that would be a lot of fun and and it'd be fun for
the exhibitors and just kind of add one more element that you
you got to be prepared to do anything when you show up it.
Could also be fun for a spectator to kind of get

(36:44):
involved too, which is one of the bigger areas in today's
industry that that the horse show world is trying cross that
bridge and there's only a couplegetting it done.
The Wildman's. Have you seen the Wildman's
obstacle course at the Calgary Stampede?
Either one of. You.
No, I've not. I've seen where somebody did it
with a GoPro on. It's different.
Yeah, it's pretty elaborate. Yeah, and Pretty Cowboy.

(37:07):
So it's there's there's a happy medium in there is what I'm
getting at. But you know, I don't know any
of the stuff. I haven't done the research.
But the Calgary Stampede, because it's also got a rodeo
and it's got a lot of entertainment, music and all
that other kind of stuff that they're in the entertainment
business of keeping a crowd somewhat engaged in the horse
show world. We're trying to figure that spot

(37:29):
out yet and there's only a couple that are kind of getting
there. I see that opportunity with this
ranch challenge because you could not only do everything
that you just made reference to,but it could be very spectator
friendly, especially if they're just doing it for the first.
No practice, right? Right.

(37:50):
And it, it is there, there is a huge crowd at nationals.
The first year is an evening class, last year is morning
class. But there was still a good,
there was still a good crowd there that first year.
It was, there was a crowd and they were involved.
They, I mean, you could hear every gasp, you could hear
applause, you could hear cheering.

(38:12):
They, they were, they were involved.
And I'll give you a little storyabout my horse within the
challenge itself, The challengesopen to anybody, professionals
and amateurs, horse at any age, whatever they have what they
call the four year old challenge.
So that first year, I wanted nothing to do with this.
I feel like, hey, I'm a Rainer. Yeah, I'm doing the ranch

(38:34):
riding. Then ranch riding fits me really
good. It fits my training program.
So I've gotten drawn into that pretty heavy.
And this was just one area I wanted nothing to do with.
And I did very little practice. I kind of went down.
Wait a minute. Why, why, Why were you set that
way to start with? Because I'm a horse trainer and
hard headed, it just felt like it was outside of my area of

(38:58):
expertise. It just felt like, hey, you're
you're hiring me to go win the raining or win the ranch riding
and now you want me to play in this class is kind of how I
looked at it. So I did very little practicing.
I kind of had my arms twisted and said, OK, you can enter if
you want to. The owner insisted we were
entering. I'm going to tell you, hey, come

(39:21):
out of that with with like 3, I guess you call landmarks or
whatever three are hit one. I was the worst go in the class.
I had the lowest score. I had the lowest score in the
whole entire class. See, I was the crowd favorite,
hands down. I was the crowd favorite.
I had more people behind me and trying to help me and like the

(39:45):
point where I had to throw the rope.
I knew that I knew the horse would let me throw the rope.
What she wouldn't let me do is wind it up.
So we were on the on the walkthrough and the judges are
like, OK, we don't expect you tocatch, you know, you don't have
to be a, you know, professional Roper.
We just want to know that you can throw the rope and when
you're done, wind it up and justhang it back up on the on the

(40:08):
thing for the next person. Well, they had a plan there, so
I'd say. You're going to catch.
You're going to catch. So you didn't have to wind it.
I already know what you're goingto have to.
Wind that rope, you know, And I got in there and it was time to
throw that rope and I put my head down and put my hands
together for a minute, said a little prayer and the crowd just

(40:28):
ate that up. I really tried to have fun with
it, play to the crowd a little bit and I threw that rope and,
and I caught and I jerked the slack and right as I would jerk
the slack, the, the crowd realized that I had caught and
they, they got loud. They cheered.
My horse ran sideways. You've got spooked at the, at

(40:50):
the cheering. But it, it, it was just, it was
a lot of fun. I was really glad I did it.
And she did. She was actually the only four
year old in there that year. So I I got got those 3
distinctions, crowd favorite, lowest score and four year old
champion. Good for you.
I think, you know, I think that's interesting.
Don't you see, Brian? Don't you see like the the

(41:12):
greatest potential for growth right there, though, too?
I mean, like it, you know, for me, I'm thinking about this.
I get a, you know, I have something like that that I can't
I take, I go find a little 9 year old girl that's horse crazy
and say, hey, look, I need you to throw this rope and coil it
up enough times where this mayor's not scared of it anymore
and they and she'd spend like 2 weeks doing it until this thing,
you know, he wouldn't care anymore.
Or I mean, these could be trained at home, which makes,

(41:35):
you know, I mean, the growth potential even larger.
You know, somebody's going to need to come and get help for
changing leads and that kind of stuff.
But there's a lot of stuff at home that, you know, somebody
can bulletproof these things with.
And I think that's I think. Yeah, which gets more people
involved. Yeah.
And the strong, the stronger runs were a lot of the like
senior senior riders on kind of senior horses.

(41:58):
The people that are really connected with their horse, they
love their horse, they're doing something with them all the
time. Those are the ones that did
really well and not ones that you would think would be like
hugely competitive in the reigning or anything like that.
It's the people that want to spend time with their horse,
that enjoy doing the day-to-day things with their horse and work
on it. Those are the people that really

(42:18):
itself I will say this last yearI I thought, well, there there
will only be one or two of us inthere and there was 55 in the
purebred and I don't remember how many in the half.
I was kind of middle of the packon that five.
And then in the half arrow by the reserve champion was also
the four year old champion. So just in one year that age

(42:40):
bracket really got strong. Really good friend of mine,
Anita Dublin out of Texas, she had just an absolute scorcher go
on a four year old and snappled it and wound up reserve champion
overall and won that championship.
Looney. That's excellent.
Yes. So where do you see it going?
I'd like to see it stay pretty much what it what it is.

(43:01):
I'd like to see them continue tokind of think outside of the
box. You know, I don't have anything
to do with making the pattern orrunning the show.
I think they're really on to something.
I think people want to do it. People want to watch it.
And if they stay the course, stay creative with their
patterns, like I said, I want tosee them draw those obstacles
out of the hat and keep the keepthe crowd engaged and keep

(43:25):
letting people know. Yeah, there's no way to lose
this class if you if you enter it.
It's one of those things, it's achallenge.
It's it's their, yeah. It's kind of for a test for you,
but I'm starting to really, really look forward to it.
I've got a good horse for this year, but there really is no way
to lose. If you go through there and you

(43:47):
kind of turns into a disaster, well, you threw something at
your horse and it didn't work that day.
Who cares? You're you're still better for
having entered and better for doing it.
And most competitions you kind of, you kind of lose that.
I think we're all just out thereenjoying ourselves and I hope
that stays. Well, but they now now are
trying to build a purse through a breeding nomination program,

(44:10):
which is similar to the other disciplines, right?
So at the at the nationals for the champion down their programs
because the only thing that theyseparate amateurs, amateurs and
pros compete against each other.The only thing they separate is
full blooded Arabs and half Arabs right?
Right. Yeah.
And then the four year old portion of it, No, Yes, yeah.

(44:34):
And actually that year that I kind of, I really struggled with
the purebred. I had a really good half Arab
that year. He was, he was reserved.
He was an older horse. He wasn't a four year old.
He was reserved in that challenge.
He was really solid. He was really good.
So yeah. So going to the yeah, no, I hear
you. But going to the Arab nationals
with advanced Western disciplinehorses is definitely in your,

(44:59):
that is in your annual you're planning on this, you're not
just we happen to have an Arab this year and we're going this
is in your annual plans. Is that correct?
It is, yeah. And I miss, I miss some NRHA
futurities going to it during nationals.
There's a lot of places I could show 3 year olds that I'd like
to be at, but I, I just plan around it.

(45:20):
I'd pick somewhere else to go show.
I don't, I don't take a ton to Arab nationals.
Usually four or five horses, something like that.
It's, it's maybe 25 at most. 30%of my business is the Arabians.
So it's a, it's a smaller portion, but I do take it very
seriously. I plan on nationals.

(45:42):
I go there and I go there and really try and win.
I think I've tried so hard in those other areas that the Ranch
challenge is kind of just been like a all right, the week's
about over. I've done what I needed to do
here. Now I'll I'll go play in this
class. That might be why I think so
lightheartedly about it. It just feels like just a fun

(46:03):
thing to end the week on. But you're, you're because the
numbers are growing as well, right?
In a short period of time. People are obviously seeing it,
they're taking advantage of it on the nomination in the
breeding side, which is going tomake the entry numbers going up
year after year, right? I sure hope so.
I do think people want to do it.I do think it's the right class
to help grow things with. The Arabians are struggling as a

(46:26):
whole. I'll give you these observations
as a professional in it. There's not enough people
raising them and there's not enough people raising them
willing to get them through to their first horse shows.
So there'll be people raise them, but they might not have a
training plan for them or who they're going to put them with.

(46:46):
There's not a lot of breeders out there.
There's some really, really nicestallions or some really nice
horses. Their breeding mentality will be
a little different. I'll have a lot of people tell
me, well, we're probably going to breed her next year, but then
we'll wait a few years and maybewe'll breed her to this stallion
in a couple years where if you or I have a broodmare, we want

(47:07):
that maybe every year or we don't want her, we want her off
the feed bill. So they'll be really kind of not
real strategic about which broodmares they're using.
There is also not a lot of people building these horses.
So if I have a finished source, you know, I, I can ask real
money for it. I can sell it real easy.
If it's something that an amateur wants to get on, again,

(47:29):
it's these people want to go through the gate, they want to
show, they want to do the ranch type stuff, the working western
type stuff. They need a horse to go do it
on. But there's just not a lot of
people that are investing in theprocess to get the horse to that
point. So prospects don't sell great,
finished horses sell really, really.
Good. And are they selling worth the

(47:50):
money so it makes it? Is it worth their while to then
take the time to build a good horse in the Arab world?
You know, in any world, is it really worth it?
You know what? By the time you raise them and
you sell them. Yeah, baby.
No, I hear you. But in, in the rain, in the
rain, in the even the rope horses now, I mean the
economics, the economics in the advanced disciplines is is at a

(48:14):
spot. Jody and I, guys our age, we
always wished it would, We neverthought we'd see it.
It's now happening. So the so the reality from a
business standpoint, it is there.
And why does that happen? It's fundamentally because of
the prize money and how that gets dealt out.
And so can horses earn some significant.

(48:37):
The Rainers just had the first horse, the single horse that's
earned over $1,000,000 in its lifetime, and that's what, eight
or eight or nine years old? Right, which is somebody thought
was impossible, you know, 20 years ago, just said no way is
that going to happen. Right.
OK, So what you know, and, and the Aww is a great starting
point for this. And, and we're talking about the

(48:58):
popularity of the Western lifestyle.
And Amy, my wife is telling me the other day she's going like,
you know, people are, they're having weddings, dressing in a
western in a Western style now wearing boots and hats.
And they're they have nothing todo with the Western lifestyle.
They just want to get married incowboy hats and boots and and a
Western style dress, right? That's how popular the Western

(49:21):
lifestyle has become. So is there, is there incentive?
How do you incentivize that breeder?
A guy like me who could still gotrain a horse or Brian's still
go train a horse. We said, you know what, I'm
going to have a project. I'm going to go buy.
I'm going to go buy a little Arab, but I'm going to train it
and I'll make an opera horse outof it for somebody in purebred
Arabian. I'll go find one and do that.
What's my incentive to do that? That Finnish non pro horse that

(49:43):
you can sell very easily? What what's that breeders
incentive to say? I need to raise one of these
things because it'll it'll make me some money or or is that what
the issue is? There is none the.
Financial part of it, I would say would be weaker.
I'll tell you the price, price range.
I've sold a lot of these horses,like a Finnish gelding for 30 on

(50:05):
up to 85,000 Sure the. And you're talking 456 year
olds. Yes, OK.
Yes. And some of them came to me
later. I only wrote them a year.
Some of them were in the programand I trained them they're, you
know, just. All the above.
All of the above. Got it.
It is harder if you really want to breed and raise 1.

(50:27):
You want to feel like you can sell it for real money as a baby
even even that's the direction of NRHA in the cutting.
We're all going to yearling sales now and we're all trying
to raise stuff that we can sell in a yearling sale that has that
market. The Arabian market would be
weaker. They're just the prospect.
And I don't know. I really don't know if it.
I think it's just because there's it's so amateur driven

(50:51):
that people are impatient. They'd rather just go get a
finished horse and wait for one to grow up.
The people that invest in the prospects that have them with me
are people that have a real passion for the Arabian breed,
and that's where that starts. So they're getting a real sense
of fulfillment out of watching this horse, that they may be

(51:11):
raised or purchased as a young horse and feel like they're
contributing to the breed. They feel a sense of pride, have
an Arabian that goes in and doesall this stuff really well.
So I think it's more breed passion that's that's driving
the market right now. And then amateur showmanship.
The a lot of the big money that you've heard of, like you know,

(51:33):
the Scottsdale Arabian Futurity that used to pay the half
Arabian pay 40,000 to win it andthe purebred paid 20,000 to win
it years ago. A lot of that money's not there
anymore. Sure, sponsors have moved on or
some of them passed away, some real contributors and stuff.
So if that money were to come back, somebody have to work

(51:54):
really hard to go raise it. Right, but that actually shows
the weakness in the industry on when you put prize money up,
it's the sustainability and and in order to truly shift it,
those are one time flash in the pan kind of scenarios because
they're dependent on an individuals interest and they're

(52:14):
putting that money up. That's the lesson to be learned
the the changing the economics in our industry so that
yearlings are worth 30 to 40,000and horses can earn 6 figures on
a normal career, 5 and 6 figures.
That's changing it and that that's changing the economics in

(52:35):
the industry and and that has tobe sustainable across time.
And I would even tell you our industry the the only two that
are even close to sustainability, the rodeo has
figured, Roper and ropers have figured it out and cutters have
figured it out. We're just just coming and I

(52:56):
think cow horses have a very bright future because they've
got the phase that equalizes competition that nobody else
has. I think it's phenomenal.
So but I'm I'm on the economic wheel of where that's turning.
We in the reigning world are yetto see stability.
We don't know where that is yet,but it's interest.

(53:19):
It's fun watching it at the moment.
I'm thrilled to death that I'm not you so well, I mean, when
you talk about raising a family and doing all the things that
people have to do, when you got an industry that's being a
little bit volatile and you're not sure what that looks like 2
and four years from now, it justmakes some of those decisions a
little bit harder. That's different than just

(53:41):
looking after yourself. So I was trying to be respectful
in that category. But that's that's the point to
that story, which I question. With the amount of prize money
and the amount of publicity and the amount of advancement and
events in our side of the world,why hasn't the growth in our
side of the world been significant?

(54:02):
Because when you look at numbers, it's we're not breeding
more horses. We don't have more new people
coming in it. It's pretty stable.
The thing that's changed is the value because the purse money is
moving up. Instead of buying 2 year olds,
we're now buying yearlings. We're buying yearlings at same
dollar that we were buying 2 year olds 8 and 10 years ago.

(54:24):
So it, it, it's just an interesting case study.
That's what you were talking about.
But if you're selling a broke aged stock horse in the Arabian
half Arabian world, 30 to 75,000, you're, you're OK.
That's that's legit. I mean, it, it's legit.
It's strong. It's yeah, it's a good place.
I will say this. You know, one, one of the things

(54:44):
I'll tell you a couple things that drew me into the Arabians
is I bought my farm, which was just land at that time.
I ran in 2005. I was just getting going in
2008. We all remember what happened.
That was a big crash, real economic downturn and and the
Arabians kept me going. You know, I had so many friends

(55:07):
that they went out of business or moved away or had to go take
a job with somewhere else and closed up their doors.
Here I am just starting to get my momentum.
And now you throw two or three Arabians into the mix that kept
me afloat. It kept me going.
So I've always felt, I guess, a great deal of appreciation for
that. And a lot of times I feel like

(55:29):
my involvement is helping a breed that helped me years ago
when I needed it the most. I could let that portion of my
business go and be OK, but I don't want to.
I also enjoy going to the same place and showing and all those
different events. I like that versatile
horsemanship. I like going and showing cow

(55:49):
horses and raining horses and ranch horses and the ranch
challenge and all of that in oneplace.
And that keeps me really excitedto go back to nationals and work
on all those herd work. I really love doing the herd
work. So I feel like that this is a
part of part of my life and partof that I don't want to let go.
Then a really big component of it too is because it's smaller.

(56:12):
There isn't really those dominant horses out there.
If if you say, Jesse, I want youto go try and win the NRHA
Futurity and I have a customer that's willing to buy me a
$20,000 a yearly, it probably isn't going to happen.
That horsepower in the NRHA in those bigger industries have

(56:32):
gotten. It's just so much horsepower.
And let's say I do, let's say I do get a horse or really good
Derby horse, something really high-powered.
You know what's going to happen?Somebody with bigger customers,
bigger purse for things, they'rejust going to come buy it from
me. I'm going to take it because I
got a family to feed. Yeah, sure.
And now I'm back. Now they're Arabians and I'll

(56:54):
tell this or anybody out there if they want to try it or
they're a trainer that's struggling.
If you can train a horse, you can prepare a horse to go show
and you can do a good job showing that horse.
You will be competitive in the in the Arabians.
You don't have to have a superpower horse.
You just have to have a nice horse that's a willing partner,

(57:14):
understand its limitations, knowwhere to ask it to shine, know
where to back off and you go do a good job.
You will be competitive there. And that to me, letting that
that sort of fall on my skills, my knowledge as a horseman and
my ability as a showman, knowingthat that I can go use that to

(57:35):
win. And it's not just all about what
horse I can afford to buy and relying on that to get me to the
winner's circle. Well, I think that I think
that's super positive. And I, and I and Brian and I've
had this discussion too. And we, you know, sometimes I
think we beat that. We, we are, we're, we don't have
enough growth, but I, I, I thinkthere is some.
And in, you know, we go and watch the Derby finals or the
Futurity finals and you know, it's the top of the food chain.

(57:58):
It's just exactly why you said it is, because somebody's got
the money and the client base behind them to own the best
horses, which is why those top 20 riders will have more than
one horse in the finals because they have the best livestock.
You know, you could take three of the fraternity finalists,
their best horses and ride them for a week and go make the NRHA
fraternity finals. I'm just saying you could do

(58:18):
that. That's how good those horses
are. So and I, I know and I know how
you can ride. So that's, that means so much
now. But what I, what I'm going at is
during the week when most of theguys are trying to make a finals
or maybe the one or the two or the three finals.
And I go step in there and I haven't been there for four
years, right? I don't know 50% of the people
walking through the gate. So how they got it.

(58:41):
And then that's the professionalthough, that's the open
futurity. I mean, there's so many new
faces from a trainer standpoint.You said it yourself when we
first started the show, it's like you go to the Arab
national, you don't know half the kids that are in there
showing now and they'll beat your ass, right?
So they, they, somebody is feeding them.
So they're riding some horses. So I, I think there is some
growth. Maybe it's just not showing up

(59:01):
in the numbers that we would like to see.
But I, I, I, I think new faces have to have horses to ride,
right? Well, that's it's true, but
you're now making by the numbers, it's not growth.
You're, you're correct, Jody, but that is a generational
handoff as one generation is aging out, which is you and me.
There's a generation coming behind Jesse.

(59:24):
So which that's that's good, that's healthy for all of us.
But you're talking about a modern industry that's somewhere
between 60 and 80 years old. And I'm talking about the
horses. I don't care what breed, what
registry, what discipline. Since the Industrial revolution
came about and we moved horses over to a recreational sporting

(59:46):
component as opposed to a mode of transportation and a means
for the farm that that's the shift.
So in that period period of timeand and you're 100% correct Jody
there is a next generation coming that's good.
Are there, is it any more than it was in our time and Jesses
time? It doesn't look like it by the

(01:00:07):
numbers. So what you're seeing is a
natural shift of handing off from one generation to the next.
Jesse made reference to it. You and I used to talk about
this because in Jodie's in my Time, Jesse made specific
reference to the amount of information and how well
educated was knowledgeable the young people coming into the

(01:00:28):
stock horse world. Art, Right, Jesse, you, that's
what you said in Art in Jodie's in my time, you had to go get
that from a person and there wasonly a few of them that had it,
maybe 15 or 20. So when we were 20 years old,
everybody was hunting for one ofthose jobs because they were the

(01:00:51):
only ones that had it so. But now, interesting stuff.
Great, great, great conversation, I think.
That's my point on that growth factor.
Well, and I, I think, I think you're right.
I'm just remembering back when that, you know, 100 and 100 head
of open Derby horses used to be huge and we'd have 3 judges
judge of the whole thing. Remember, I mean that you know,
the Derby, you had three guys doing everything.

(01:01:13):
You didn't have five open judges, you didn't have 5 non
pro judges. You had three guys to judge.
It was a different a different time.
So yeah, I think the numbers, but yeah, from a standpoint is
but and what would what are we going to do?
The cutting fraternity is so bignow.
They continue to grow. They just add more and more days
to it, right? I think there is a cap.
Gentlemen, it's been a pleasure to have you both.

(01:01:35):
We look forward to seeing the outcome of the 2025 Ranch
Challenge at the Arabian Nationals this year in 2025.
You can go to www.arabianworkingwestern.com.
Again, Arabian Working Western, alloneword.com for more info and
TuneIn for the results of the 2025 Ranch Challenge because

(01:01:59):
we're going to bring you the last episode.
So until the next time, enjoy the ride.
Gentlemen, it's been my pleasure.
I've enjoyed both of you. It's been a great show.
Jesse, thank you so much for being with us.
Until next time in the middle. Yeah, thank you for having me
hope after this branch challengein 2025 you have to enter them.
I hope I do that well. So I've got really nice words

(01:02:19):
and thank you guys for wrapping me on the reason is right, the
conversation, especially in a breadth of it where we're really
trying to tackle a lot of the industry as a whole and
promoting something I feel attached to the wrong.
It's just, you know, Ravian Astronaut City Radiant Brief.
Thank you guys for highlighting in today's episode is brought to

(01:02:40):
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