EP 40 : 95 and It's Not Over Until It's Over w/ Teresa Goforth

What a great Ride; 75 year old Teresa Goforth qualifies on her 20 yr old gelding for the Run for the Million Non-Pro challenge 2025 in Las Vegas.

Tune in for a great discussion on many industry topics as Teresa shares her insight with the Cowboy Office.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
The ride of your life might justbe.
Beginning Welcome to the Cowboy Office Show, where you'll
experience expert analysis and epic discussion on key pillars
of the equine industry includingsports, business, hobby, and the
horse lifestyle. Your cohosts are Jodi Brainerd

(00:27):
and Brian Dyker, industry veterans with over 120 years
combined living the cowboy lifestyle.
The Cowboy Office Show will helpyou get involved, ask more
questions, and create change. We'll keep riding for you as
together we learn from the ride already ridden, learn to listen
better to our horse, and make our industry better for all.
Each episode will take a ride around the industry in less time

(00:48):
than you can. Load
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miss an episode. Settle up as we ride into
today's show. Hello, horse World.
One of my favorite sayings. In truth, as Winston Churchill
says, there is something about the outside of a horse that's
good for the inside of a man. Yes, indeed, horses are good for

(01:11):
people. We have with us today a special
person to share a phenomenal journey and ride.
Stick around as this ride is going to be great.
Welcome to the cowboy office. I'm Brian.
And I'm Jody. We want to welcome Teresa
Goforth, a Texas woman that's been around the industry for
quite some time. Theresa, I've known you for more
years than I could care to remember.
But she started riding horses in1955 and now in 2025 with a

(01:35):
total lifetime of 95 years between her and her horse.
Reese at 75 and Maverick at 20 qualified for the 2025 Run for a
Million Non Pro Challenge. Theresa, welcome.
Thank you for the invite. That is awesome.
Well, a little background, Teresa, you know, you've devoted
your life to service and leadership.
After 911, you flew 46 missions for the Civil Air Reserve fleet

(02:00):
transporting troops to war zones.
Later founded a nonprofit to support wounded soldiers in
route. Is that land stool hospital?
Is that the production hospital?OK.
You went on to Co found the Phoenix Project to crisis
response program, served over 500 combat veterans and their
spouses. And that's before PTSD was
widely acknowledged. Thank goodness that's changed

(02:21):
some. Certified Dive Master CPR
instructor Teresa, you bring thesame courage and commitment to
every chapter of your life. So happy to have you with us.
We are. I think the leadership in the
volunteer work that she's done is phenomenal.
I mean, it goes without saying. And the veterans thing is one of
those things like our officiating Jodi, that's kind of
near and dear to me. So when I kind of found that out

(02:43):
about her, it just made it extraspecial.
But Teresa, I want to start out with a big one because last year
we saw, well, we saw Sean Flair to bring Spooks got a whiz, 1617
year old big time stud back out.Not normal in the industry.
He gets in qualified, but he picks Spooks, got a whiz, goes
and competes in the run for the million.
Now this year you at 75 years old, using your 20 year old

(03:07):
gelding, get yourself qualified in the non pro challenge.
I got to ask why? Why do it?
Because the price of horses I, Iwanted, I had a goal.
I've pretty much have competed in just about everything out
there and either one or reserve or something in there.

(03:27):
I've been to all of the shows and I'm living up in the horse
world now. I have, you know, pasture barn
and everything and all my friends up here in North Texas
rather than in Dallas from whereI was driving up here all the
time. I want to I had goals.
The Run for the Million was not there when we were competing so

(03:48):
much. I started competing
competitively in 2000 and at that time I was 50 years old and
that's when I started this wholerole again.
Then there was kind of like a hiccup in between, you know,
when, you know, I had to fly a lot, had, you know, the horses.
But I've always had the horses. I dabbled in the breeding part.

(04:09):
I dabbled in buying and selling a lot of horses and it is hard
to find the right horse out there.
You can go out and spend $120,000 on a horse, but it may
not fit you through all the horses that have rotated through
through my riding. And you can go out there and buy

(04:31):
the best horse, but it doesn't necessarily fit you.
I had the idea and then I thought about, well, what about
leasing? What about this?
And there because I didn't know how much long time I could be
right, even though I'm perfectlyhealthy and I'm, you know, I
swim every single day. And it's but it gave me the idea
because I had Maverick and he's been retired four or five years

(04:54):
now and he's healthy. He runs around the pasture.
He doesn't like the pasture. He likes to be inside in front
of the fans and everything else.But it was giving me the idea to
leg up Maverick because Maverickhas always been great in
everything. He didn't have to be.
He doesn't have to be trained. He didn't have to be trained.
So it was just getting him back in shape because I didn't want

(05:15):
to hurt him. I wanted to see how it would be,
you know, after 2-3 months of ofgetting him back in shape, if it
this would work. He was coming right along.
He was, he remembers at 20 yearsold, he has to remember how to
do a spin, how to do a rollback,how to do everything else.
And it was working. We'd haul him to, you know, down

(05:37):
the road to Cole Price's place or to Nathan Piper's place or to
Matthew Baton's place, you know,and all of their arenas and
stuff, and see if he still worked out.
And he did. And I thought, OK, let's try
this. So in March, the end of March, I
went to one show and just so happens there was a one class

(05:59):
that had the run for the millionand it also had the select world
qualifications, select AQHA and I want it good for you.
Hey. So you get qualified, you get
qualified for two big ones with one run, right?
Keep going. One show, 1 show, one run.
And I don't want to push Maverick.

(06:20):
Yes, he's good for here and there.
They've been helping me ride himevery single day.
He's been riding at night all summer long so they doesn't get
hot because he has he has a problem with sweating, so he
gets sweat medicine and he did. He was that way when I had it.
You know, I was showing him before, so we didn't want to
push him. I don't want to stress him.
I don't want to take him too much into his, you know,

(06:42):
boundaries. He didn't do exactly like I
wanted him to do at the Run for the Million.
The not being not showing for the last couple of years.
I kind of forgot and I didn't have my old trainer out there
saying do this, do this and do it again and all that kind of
stuff. So it was, it was more on me

(07:04):
trying reading Maverick on what bit because I'm not proficient
in the bit part. And he needed, you know, we did
a really light bit on him and I should have had a little more
and we should have made him a little more awake, you know,
before he went into the arena. He didn't make huge mistakes.

(07:26):
He just looked really lazy. So it was a, it was a good run
and I was, I was happy. I wasn't embarrassed about it
and everybody probably thought, well, that old lady did it.
See, it was fun. The my best, my thrill of
showing other than winning is when you walk in the arena, they

(07:47):
call out your name and they callout your horse's name.
That just like gives me goosebumps.
That's just like the coolest thing in the world is, you know,
to have your name and your horse's name called out.
The recognition which goes to all the work that you put in
let. Me show you what I can do.
That is excellent. It's always been that way.
OK, so, so talk a little bit more before we, I want to, I

(08:09):
want to circle back to the pricething, but talk a little bit
more about your goals. Tell me what they were before
you started this project. The what?
Your goals, you know, the goals that Yeah, the goals that you
had the. Goals.
I. Said the goals other than
winning, everything that I go into the goals is to the things
I haven't done, OK, I've been tothe the run for the million was

(08:34):
one of them. And I thought OK, all these
people that I know are going to the run for the million, I want
to go to the run for the million.
I want to do that. I want to qualify and I know
it's difficult at some shows to to qualify for the run from
Lillian to be the top five. And I also had the goal of going
back to the select world again because I've been there three
times with him and we won 4th, 4th and then tied for second.

(08:59):
I want to win the gold on him. I know that's really far fetched
at this age of for him, but you know, who knows?
Absolutely. Why would you say it's far
fetched after you qualify? Far fetched would be qualifying
for the run for the million because that would be there's

(09:20):
very few one. The amount of qualifiers are
very few and limited. So and you only get a few shots
at it to get qualified and then comes and I don't care if you're
on the non pro side or the pro side at steep competition, no
matter what you know that going in, right So.
It's I know more now since I've had him in the arena once you

(09:42):
know, the at this age, I've had him in the arena at the run for
the million. So you know, there's there is
that possibility because he has he has every bit of the talent
that he had when he was six years old when I bought him.
He has every single bit of that.He has the same disposition.
He has the same want to he's just he has the same signals.
I do the same thing on him. You know, I'm so connected to

(10:05):
him because I've had him so longand I've shown him for so long
that I know everything he does. So I know now that you know, we
need to push a little bit more, but there is that possibility
because hey, we won a lot, a whole lot when he was, he has
right now I think he has about 47,000 on him that he's won.

(10:27):
But that was at the back at the times not everybody ever did
rode in the derbies. We did ancillary.
I mean, we went when we'd go to horse shows, they'd enter every
single class that we could enterin and sometimes twice.
But the ancillary would only payanywhere from $10 to $75.

(10:48):
And so when you do that for many, many years, it doesn't add
up to a whole lot. So if it was in the, in the
price or maybe in not necessarily the price or the the
purse that they have now, it would be a better, you know, he
would have had a lot more money on him.
But at the time the purses were tiny.

(11:09):
I mean tiny. We celebrated and we had a
$15.00 check, but the entry feeswere.
Proportional to that. Right. $10 we're in the
thousands of dollars for entry fees in the 10s of thousands for
for prize money. Bear with me for a minute.
As an industry, As an industry, are we maybe measuring the wrong

(11:31):
thing? And I've always thought this,
I've thought this for over 20 years, that measuring money
earned might not be the best measurement, just my $0.20.
And now looking back makes even more sense because if everything
continues into the future, it's all going to move forward, which
which now records from the year 2030 will not be comparable to

(11:56):
the year 1995. It just won't.
That's what we met. It's it's almost how can you
compare? Say I have the same horse that I
was showing in 2010 is when we were going to the 10:11,
12/13/14 is when we were doing our major showing on Maverick.

(12:16):
At that time I need tiny little purses and tiny little bitty
entry fees. Now same horse it's costing me
probably 10 times as much to enter.
Going to Vegas was like, Oh my God, just even entry fees.
It was even the entry fees goingto the world show in 2010.

(12:42):
Eleven and 12 is nothing compared to Vegas.
The stalls, the stall fees, the shavings, the the judges fee,
the you know, everything that you have to enter.
There wasn't. I don't think there was even
judge's fees when I started. Yeah, there was.
You just didn't it it. 2000. Yeah, there's, there's always

(13:05):
been judge's fees since the beginning of 1966.
And I say that because historically, that was one of
the things that set the Rainers apart.
Because was it? $5 right?
Well, it wasn't much. It wasn't much, but it was a
mechanism. The Rainers did three very
innovative things that because the purse money is basically
self sustainable. It's a it's a jackpot formula

(13:28):
which made it sustainable based upon the exhibitors.
That's true. They also guaranteed a revenue
stream to hire the best judges they could because they wanted.
All they wanted was good ground,good judges and good purses.
That's what Raining was formed on.
And the judges fee was a creation in 1966 so that show

(13:48):
management could afford to hire good stock horse judges.
That's exactly what they set outto do.
So the judge's fee's always beenthere.
And the entry fee was originallyset on 10% of the added money to
the purse. That's now been blown out of the
water. It can't be over 10%, but it's
it's not a ratio that's proportionate anymore because

(14:09):
now you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in
$1,000,000 purses. Entry fees are not proportion to
added money, but on the bottom end of it.
That's where the rules set, so those would be true.
But that's also with the open, not the non pro.
No, it's true across all of it, all of raining doesn't matter.
Rookie green you, you can't compete for money, so they only

(14:33):
compete for points. Judges fees cannot exceed entry
fee. Those are all on the rules, but
the judges fees always been there.
It's just used our judge. Our entry fees used to be 25 and
50 dollars and an entry fee would be 10 or 50.
A judge's fee would be 1015 or 20, generally about half of the
entry fee. So you'd have a $75 cost in a

(14:58):
500 added open raining somewhere.
That's what it would cost you and you'd win 300 bucks, right,
Jody? Yes, absolutely not Teresa, I
would I would tell you do and and Brian and I've had this
discussion and and at risk of pissing more people off that
I've done it that I've done in the past and we're going to get
on with you because that's the important part of this thing.

(15:19):
But you know, show management companies don't do this to for
the good of their heart. They do this to make money and
their biggest, their biggest money makers are judges fees and
stall fees and paid warmups. Those are what they really clean
house on. I've often given some show
management, management team saidlook, I'm just going to come in
and I'll just judge for 1/5 of the judges fees.

(15:41):
They go, well, no you won't. No, I'll say I'll pay my, I'll
pay my own expenses. I'll fly, I'll do everything.
I'll take a fifth. The judges, they say, Oh no you
won't. So it's like part of it, that's
where it's coming from. So anyway, there'll be some
people loving to see that on this, but that's part of it back
just quickly again, back to the price thing, which we've talked
about and I I'm I'm all for because I had to make a living

(16:01):
in this for such a long time. And and it's kind of neat now
that I don't have to and I can look in from the outside and the
horse price thing is crazy. And even I even talked to some
people that are in this thing ina big way and they say horse
prices are crazy. So but I guess they can stay
crazy as long as people keep paying that price.
But let's say someone that's your age, that our age, Hell

(16:25):
yeah, your age. I'm a couple years behind you.
So our age, we want it. I mean, you want it from the non
pro standpoint. I'm talking about the open from
the non pro standpoint. Don't have that 20 year old
gilding and they want to do thisagain.
Do they have to? I mean, I'm understanding what
I'm what I'm after here is you want to go compete and you've
always been competitive because I remember you and when you were

(16:45):
showing hot and heavy. So my, my question here, I guess
for you is, is it is the competition itself within you
more important than going in andwinning the amount of prize
money that you win? In other words, if, if would you
recommend to someone that wantedto get back into this thing

(17:05):
again, would you say, I don't care, go spend $35,000 and find
a little gilding that you can goshowy, maybe it's a 69 horse and
just go show because that's what's good for you.
Or would you say, oh hell no, you need to go step to the plate
because you need to go try to win something?
Well, but you can win on the inexpensive horse just like you

(17:25):
can the expensive horse if you get the right horse.
It's like Maverick. I bought Maverick for $15,000.
I mean, that's like ungodly. Even when I bought it, it has to
be the paired up because I've bought those $80,000 horses and
I've bought those, you know, 50 whatever and you know, and then
80,000 plus another horse, you know, trading and it didn't work

(17:49):
out. And it just, you know, the
matches up to you and you can show it doesn't matter what it
cost. But it's outrageous that people
just because they have good breeding and just because they
have this or that it's the horse, you know, you got to get
yes, the right horse that has the talent and then how you can

(18:10):
ride the horse because you can't, you can't make it work if
it doesn't work. And I've personally know that
really well. Of all the horses.
I even tried to breathe. The ride horse, you know, I've
bred got her married to MetallicCat.
He didn't want to have anything have to do with raining.
He didn't want to have anything to do with cows.

(18:30):
So who knows? You make a rope horse on him.
I don't know what he is doing. And then I read a gunner met no
shining spark mare to yellow Jersey, most beautiful horse
you've ever seen in your life. But he didn't want to have
anything to do with raining, so he's roping.

(18:53):
He's now a rope horse. But, you know, I tried to breed
him myself to, you know, to havethat perfect horse in the in the
arena, but you can't do it that way.
It just doesn't work. It's all about the horse that
fits you, no matter what the price.
Hate the fact that it's gotten so expensive.
And I think a lot of this happened during COVID because no
one, everybody had nothing to dobut go by and look at horses and

(19:16):
ride horses. And that the prices skyrocketed
during COVID. And it's such a shame because
then everybody, not everybody atmost of them saw that price.
Oh boy, we can make some money on this and this and this and,
and they're interbreeding so much.
You there's another whole topic and Brian and I talked about the

(19:36):
other day about the genetics. When you find out that the
genetics you know in one breed to another and you're not really
looking at that part and what itdoes affect the horse.
Right. Well, the question that that
brings the question, are we making the Quarter Horse breed
better? No, by the amount of excessive
line reading that we're doing. I think they're grabbing on one

(19:59):
blood bloodline and then they're, you know, running with
it, you know, as much as they can milk out of that one
bloodline and they're not you looking at others and just for
the horse, for his talent, it's more of the that bloodline 1.
And why can't I have, you know, breed my horse to that?
And I know that doesn't work. OK, well, and, and let me let me

(20:21):
throw this out at you again, or we've asked this question many
times on this show. Who, who has because a lot of
this comes back. It's always about the money.
I I was still at the price. It's always it's always about
the money. But who has the most influence
in the raining horse business, Tracy?
Is it the owner or the trainer? I think the trainer, because you

(20:42):
can take a wonderful horse over here and take it to the wrong
trainer and it may not become its full potential.
If it had gone to a different trainer and I learned that from
another horse that I had, if he had gone to a different trainer,
he would have turned out differently.

(21:03):
I think it's the trainer. That's more than anything I
really do. OK.
So, so a lot of those, I mean, it's it's about finding that
right, not just the right match up on the horse, it's about
finding the right match up on your coach also that's.
Very important for you, right, all right, and and then there's
the there's not that many trainers now that will take on
non pros. I think it's kind of like it

(21:25):
used to be a lot, you know, everybody had a non pro.
And now one of the hotbeds and you're telling me that there
aren't enough trainers that'll take non pros the I-35 corridor,
is that right? That's right, there's not enough
of them. They'll do some on the side, but
they'll push them off to their assistants.
They themselves will not even talk to the non pro.

(21:46):
They won't do anything. They'll look at them or they'll
stand at the gate when you're going in at the arena, not be
involved in the training itself,in the coaching.
Coaching and all the rest. Well, there's not enough.
Money to be coaching. You know, like I said, there's
not enough money to be made. It's it's the shift is changed.
And I think that I talked to, you know, helping with the OSU
thing over there. Teresa and I will tell you a

(22:08):
couple things we have, we have half dozen horses in their 20s
that are still competing. So age horse wise, don't worry
about that a bit, but I do thinkthat's pretty important when you
think about a talking to parentsthat their kids are competing at
the college level and they also compete on NRA chain everywhere
else too. And I'll talk to mothers and and

(22:29):
they're going I would just so like to find a horse that could
go mark a 71 that I could go show.
And there isn't any. In other words, the ones I don't
agree with that there is no. Horses out there, but it depends
on the rider. It's matched up with the horse.
I think that that Teresa, I think that that sense.
I've trained a lot of them too, but I think that 71 horse can be
made to carry anybody. I'm not talking about marking a

(22:50):
225, but I'm talking about a little horse that can do 0
maneuvers and plus half turns. He can do it with me and do it
with you and do with Brian. He can do with anybody, but
they're not making that horse because he keep that thing as a
three-year old who wants it. I don't want it.
I'm a professional trainer. I either got to put enough heat
on him that I blow his top off or he's got to go because he's
not going to win me anymore. So that we used to at Brian and

(23:13):
I are's age and day, we would make the best out of each one of
those things because there was aspot for them.
And I think there still is. They're just.
They're just not making. It they're just not making them
so. They're not putting the time
into making it right. The emphasis is on the top end
so much that 222 and above horse.
That's what Sean used to talk about.
He put them in three categories,you know, the 212 to 216, the

(23:34):
216 to 220 and the 222 and above.
You know which that's basically what you're talking about.
The same thing. And that's what they're all
looking for. And there's so many cults now,
everybody's breeding, everybody's breeding their to
this and that and everything. And the so many Colts are are
going to the trainer and he's having to make a decision to

(23:57):
narrow down so quickly. For instance, I had one that
went to a trainer, he was there three months and they sent him
home. Because it's not going to make
it not going to make it 3 months.
What can you know in three months?
As a 2 year old. As he just yes ever as a 2 year
old. As a 2 year old.
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's not a, it's not an uncommon problem.

(24:19):
Yeah. And I, I on the flips, on the
flip side of the coin, I've seensome of them have been trained
for two years that shouldn't have been trained for three
months. So I mean it's like.
And I'm guilty. I I did some of those.
Yeah, that was that was mailbox money, you know, I mean, the
trainers got to pay bills. They just keep them so.
Well, there's another part to that, because you always thought
you could make it. My biggest guilt, The hardest

(24:40):
lesson I learned, I always thought I could make them better
than I could and I couldn't. And, and the thing that my
teacher had always taught me wasyou're going to make them 1%
better than however God made them.
So that was the hard lesson for me.
So because I always thought I could get a little bit more.
And when that when you got to the other end, you had a broke
whatever you had, that's it. Theresa, let's let's talk a

(25:01):
little bit about let's talk about.
I mean, obviously you love horses and, and I've, I've said
this on the show before too, it's like your horse is
different than your dog because I always make, I tell people
this, that in our day, they grewup watching my friend flick on
TV and he would come to you likeLassie, right?
That's like, if you break your leg in the pasture, your dog

(25:21):
will stay with you. If you break your leg in the
past, your horse is going to go.I got a pond over here to get a
drink and it's it, you can't whistle and he won't come back,
right? But but that bond is super,
super strong. And when you talked about your,
you know, you talked about a horse that your horse would
rather be in a stall then he would be out in the pasture,

(25:42):
right? I thought these old school
horses over there that way too. And they get jealous as hell if
they're not being rode, you knowwhat I mean?
And I, and if you'd have told methat 30-40 years ago, I said
whatever. But when I see him on a daily
basis, it's like, you know what?And you know, I mean, we got the
tree towns and that. So there's a, there's a bond and
a bigger one than I they thoughtthat there was.
I mean, you learn something every day.

(26:03):
And when I get around these get around the kids and I get around
these old horses and the way that they're treated, I'm like,
yeah, you know what there is. So, so tell me a little bit
about, about the bond that you have with yours.
I mean, do you, you've, you've been around this, you know what
this business is like and you know that it's it's money
motivated and it's sport. How important is this individual
to you? They didn't expect to see me

(26:27):
here, and not at 75 and not witha 20 year old horse.
But here we are. We've been partners for years.
I raised my grandkids riding him.
He's even taught one of my otherhorses a thing or two over the
years. The ride wasn't built overnight.

(26:47):
It's been decades of discipline,of grits and of starting over
and staying in it. They say you slow down with age,
but what if the best part of your story is still ahead?
Raining isn't just a sport, it'sa conversation.
It's a promise I kept by myself that I'm not done yet.

(27:11):
To every woman wondering if it'stoo late, saddle up.
The right of your life might just be beginning.
That question was how important is this?
Is this horse to you? This horse is totally different

(27:34):
because when you're in the competitive show business, at
any time your trainer slash coach could say this was not
working anymore, we're going to get a new one.
You cannot have a connection andyou cannot bond with every horse
that you own, which I know I could, but some of them are just

(27:56):
here for now and gone. But Maverick, I've never been
one of those, even though I've loved horses since I could say
horse. I've loved horses, but I've
never been a hug their neck and kiss something.
And Maverick and I, I know his. I know him so well.
I know his his feelings. It's like when I open the, the

(28:20):
stall door and he turns around and faces the other way.
He doesn't want to talk to me today.
But then there's times when he's, you know, I'm, I'm walking
into the barn and he knickers and he's, you know, he's ready
to, you know, to talk. And he's, he just different.
He's just different. He has talent.

(28:43):
He's he looks like the real quarter horse.
He has a good look to him. He's not, you know, he has
wonderful ground manners. He has when you're on him.
I've put a 2 year old, I've put my 4 year old grandson, here's
the reins, go out and ride in the pasture.
And he did, that was about a year and a half ago.

(29:03):
He's just that kind of horse that, you know, he'd be the old
plow horse that everybody in theworld rides and he's that kind
of horse. And then you leg him up and get
him a little, you know, get a little more memory in there and
he can show he can compete. And that's what I like about
him. And he's he's laid back.
He's got a when my dad would always say he has a kind eye.

(29:25):
You know what I'm talking about.There's there's a wild one and
then there's the kind eye. And he does, he's not crazy and
he's he's sweet. He's just, and there's times
when he does not want you to hughis neck and he doesn't want to
do all these other things. And he's, I mean, he's not, you
can crawl underneath him. You can pick up every foot, you

(29:46):
can, you know, one handed everything.
He's not hot. You know, he's never been that
kind of horse. So yeah, he's pretty wonderful
horse. OK, well, I think the.
Grand is out in the middle of the pasture and just walk around
him as as he's grazing in the pasture, the little bitty kids
walking all around him and they're perfectly safe with him.

(30:08):
So he's cool horse cool, cool. He looks pretty good too.
Yeah, yeah, Yes, he does. Absolutely.
Well, that's really I think that's special.
So I you know, obviously if every single person could have
that kind of experience with a horse, it's it's like Winston,
right? That's the the outside of that
horse is good for the inside of you, that one in particular.
So I think that's awesome. Is this not a renaissance?

(30:30):
But is this is this second coming of your Chopin here?
Is it only is it only for the non pro?
Yeah, right. Well, it's like you're I mean
you're you're back and I mean I'm I'm so happy to see it.
I think it's just awesome. There's hope for everybody.
And I, I was trying to think about this, you know, because
age to me, like I said, Jack, you know him and he lived to be
100 and was still doing clinic work two weeks before he passed.

(30:53):
So it's, you know, that's just kind of it's become a number
with good health. So anyway, I think that I think
that my question here is, I think women live longer than
guys do, right? Isn't that a, is that a fact?
Right. OK, so is this is this would you
think that this message, this show that you're that you're

(31:14):
sharing with us? Is it is it primarily aimed at
at women? The non pro?
The non pro older woman? Aimed at women because there's
so many women that just give up so easily.
And they are, there's the women that they give surveys, you
know, they ask everyone, should I do this?
Should I do that? There's people that to take
surveys before they make up their mind on anything, but

(31:38):
there is a lot of women that when they hit 50 that they don't
think they could do it anymore. And you'll think back, I was 50
in 2000 when I started big time raining.
I never let that hold me back. And I'd work around.
I was still working full time asa flight attendant, but I would
come from the airport still in my uniform, go straight to the

(31:59):
barn. Luckily they would have the
horse already saddled up for me and ready and get on him and
ride. And you just in between those
two or three days I had at home,I was so motivated that I rode
and I wanted to get better and Iwanted to have a better horse.
And I wanted to, you know, as I graduated up to the competition

(32:21):
in the competition, yes, I wanted to get up to the better
horse. And at one point, you know, I
has I've had many horses. After Maverick was in his prime,
I realized that I couldn't push him as hard and do as many shows
as I was doing at that time. You know, he kind of topped out
when we were, you know, the three years ago, we went to the

(32:42):
to the world and then I won the Southwest Affiliate Championship
and I couldn't go to the Futurity World Show in RHA World
Show because my my coach was thejudge.
So that kind of knocked me on that.
And but then there's so many different, you know, I wanted to

(33:04):
do more and and Maverick was kind of like on the decline.
I couldn't I didn't want to pushhim anymore because he was good
up in the age. And so, you know, go to the next
horse, the next horse, the next doors.
I probably had ten horses since big ride.
But now I don't want to spend $50,000.
I don't want to spend that much.I don't want to spend half that

(33:24):
much on a new horse. And because I really don't think
that that much money is worth it.
I really don't think that's my and I think Maverick is just as
good as anything I could buy at his age.
And I can't, you know, I could buy a, you know, a three-year
old, 4 year old, 5 year old, even a, you know, 7-8 or nine

(33:47):
year old that is not guaranteed that he could be even as good as
Maverick right now. And I just need to do a little
more work on Maverick, you know,get him, get him out of the laid
back, lazy stage. He is really lazy.
So a little more spur. And I didn't want to give you a
spur in the arena. But yeah, I need to do that.

(34:09):
I just don't want to spend the money.
It's just ridiculous because youyou buy it one day, three weeks
later you can't even get near that price.
But let me ask you this and I hear you because then you can
put it in the same department with any other commodity that we
buy everyday, A vehicle, a truck, a trailer, whatever,

(34:29):
right? My question is as a non pro and
a long time non pro exhibitor, you, you weren't doing it for
the money, correct? Are you doing it?
Not for the money, not because Iwasn't winning money, you know,
because you didn't get any moneyat that time.
I was in it for the competitive and I, I love the win, right?

(34:52):
I really love the win and competing and the camaraderie.
There is not the camaraderie there.
What now that there was back then because everybody's on
their phones, everybody's, you know, doing this and they're not
talking to other people. My favorite thing of all my show

(35:13):
days, you know, the big time show days, you know, 15, 20
years ago was sitting in the chairs up and down that, you
know, the alleyways, everybody, you know, talking in between the
shows and, and, you know, everybody getting to know each
other, everybody going out to eat together.
Now everybody dispersed, you know, everybody goes one way,

(35:34):
another way, and they're on their phone and it's not the old
days anymore. I tried that.
I I hear you. So then the second part of my
question is this, would it be healthy for the industry to take
the money pressure away from thenon pros so that they weren't
competing for big purses which would drive cost of horses cost

(35:56):
of showing everything up? I just pose it as a bigger
question because you know, sincethe creation of the NRHA that
there was only two categories when it started, a non pro and a
pro. And an open guy wasn't even a,
it wasn't even a pro. We don't even classify pros.
They're called open because everybody can go in the open.

(36:17):
The non pros were a restricted group.
They were people that weren't professionals.
That's it. That's all there was.
And the point is over these 65 years, we've treated both of
those groups of competitors pretty much the same.
And I question ourselves now if it isn't time to change that
because if you wanted the money,the money in the purse, money is

(36:41):
there and we've seen it for the last 8 to 10 years now.
Oh yeah, there's a lot of money,especially with the derbies.
The non pro derbies, correct? The non pro securities.
But here's here's my question. Can you have non pro
fraternities and derbies withoutthe excessive economic pressure?
And the answer would be yes. But that's what we're
experiencing right now, which puts the non pros in our

(37:03):
industry, in the industry in thesport of rainy in a similar
category as the pros. But in the bottom line, when you
get through it, that's not why they're in it in the first
place. That's the heart of the
question. But there there is a whole group
that are in it the a non pro group that are in it for the
money and then the competitiveness just like the

(37:25):
pros. And shouldn't what?
And I think that needs to be separated.
It already is. It's called the Open.
Well, but they're not open. They're they're $1,000,000
riders, they're $1,000,000 horses.
They're $1,000,000 That's not there.
That is always about the money, right?
Yep. Yep.
I know that's why I would never enter the the derbies and the

(37:47):
fraturities and things because it's not fair.
You know, I cannot go compete. Well, I did it run for the
million, but it's hard to compete to get someone that has
won $5,000,000 and then they're non pro and they have six horses
and horses to choose from them. I have my one and I've always

(38:08):
had one at a time. You know, I could never afford
to have more than one at a time.Plus you can't you can't really
work on one and and become proficient with that one.
If you had more than one. That's the way I feel, the way I
am. I wouldn't be able to get keep
difference on. OK, this is 1's a little hot on
this way and this one's a little, you know, slow on this

(38:28):
way. I don't know how they would they
do that, but unless they get twohorses that are alike, there
needs to be a division for the weekend warrior that has the one
horse has the horse at home. Mine would be here, but I can't
physically clean stalls and carry 50 LB bags of feed
anymore. But so I have somebody else

(38:51):
doing that, but I don't have a coach.
I don't have a coach, trainer, whatever any longer.
I do that myself and remember, Ihave in my mind remember what's
been pounded in my head all of those years, you know, you know,
when I first started and I remember that part.
I don't think it's fair anymore.It's not as like it used to be.

(39:13):
It used to be fair and divided into different categories.
I know I'll, you know, I'll never be a limb anymore and I'm
now back into the intermediate and the intermediate and the and
the non Pro is all I could enter.
I know they've got different categories of that in some of
the bigger shows and like the like the derbies and stuff, but

(39:34):
I don't want to enter in that, you know, this.
It costs too much. It's a higher competitive horses
and riders that can ride every single day and can and do all
that which the weekend warrior cannot.
Even when I was in my, you know,my top level, I couldn't even
ride every single day and plus Iwasn't allowed to.

(39:56):
I was only allowed three times aweek Max.
Well, you know, and, and Brian had this discussion at length
before too. And it's and, and we absolutely
hear you. And we've, we've, we've talked
about it many, many times. And and there's a solution to
it, but it's not a simple solution.
And when I ask you who has more influence, is it the owner or is

(40:18):
it the trainer? And you said the trainer.
And that's absolutely the case because anytime a trainer's
income is going to be affected by a non pro rider in their
family, be it be it a son or a daughter and or a wife or a
spouse, and it can go both directions.
They're absolutely not going to want that change.
So the only way to change that is to make the effort to get to

(40:39):
the board of directors and to dothat then you have to commit the
time to go serve on that board of directors.
And most people are unwilling todo that.
We just rather bitch about it and leave it alone.
She's. Ready.
I'm ready. I'm ready to get into that.
I'm ready to get in. I had that little bug put in my
ear and I really thought about that over the weekend and then

(41:01):
thought about, you know, what can I, what can I do to change
it since I've been in the industry for 25 years, you know,
heavily in the industry for 25 years and I've done a little bit
of everything. I'm not in the.
Controlling you have two choicesYou can either do it through
your affiliate local level or you can get yourself elected
straight onto the executive board.

(41:22):
And I would tell you somebody like you, it's.
Like that at the top. Yes, Executive Committee, can
you as a member you can get yourself nominated and put on
the ballot the next ballot? Yes, you can.
And I would strongly encourage you because that is exactly the
type of people that our industryneeds, people that have the

(41:43):
experience, have the knowledge, have a length of time.
You know, we can talk about whatit was like and we don't have to
go back. But those experiences are very
real. When you get in leadership roles
and you already know what key leadership is all about.
I would strongly encourage you to pursue some of that if you

(42:04):
truly have interest because it'speople like you.
I'm thinking about that because,you know, I can, I can show
forever, but I'm not going to show every single show every
weekend and haul everywhere and do all of that any longer.
I don't really want to. I just want to go to a few shows
and do some things, but I would rather get involved.

(42:24):
I can still go to the horse shows that way and they'll talk
to everyone that way out, you know, I want to keep all my
friends that I've made over the last 25 years.
You'll make more and you'll talkmore because the issues would be
more pertinent. I've got a big question for you
because in your public statementas qualifying for the Non Pro
Challenge, it's run for the million, you make reference to
the sport of raining being a conversation.

(42:46):
I want you to elaborate on that.What does that mean?
It's different ways, but the main thing don't you talk to
yourself when you're riding? Of course I talk to myself all
the time. People say I'm crazy.
Well, when you're when you're showing, when you actually
showing, you talk to yourself asyou're going when you're down
here, you look ahead and you talk to yourself.

(43:06):
OK, I need to slow down. I need to do this.
I need to put, you know, leg on this side, leg on that side, you
know, spur over here, let this one out.
Look ahead. Don't look down.
You know you're talking to yourself the whole time and when
you what your next maneuver is and what you're going to do and
what you do, you don't think about the backwards part, the
stuff that's over with. I learned that long time ago

(43:28):
that once you make a stick, don't think about it anymore and
don't think about that bad ride.You go on ahead on the next one
and you talk to yourself all theway around and it is a
conversation because you're showing, you're presenting.
Your presentation of that horse is what you need to talk to
yourself about when you're in the arena because that's the

(43:49):
whole thing. We are presenting the horse, the
bet as their best ability and we're talking to ourselves as
we're going around all those things.
Because I know it goes back in aflash.
I'd forgotten about that when I went into the arena in Vegas and
it's over. What I miss it is, but it is
when you're in there, you do talk to yourself and it is a

(44:12):
conversation of this. And when you're when you're
watching somebody compete, you know, say now they're going to
do this and now they're going todo you need to go down a little
longer. I mean, it's the whole thing.
You can't stay quiet in raining.You just can't, you have to keep
it going. And that's really the best part
about it is that you are, I knowthere's a lot of times you talk

(44:33):
to your horse too, but you know,it's more about what you need to
do to be, to do the best ride and have the best presentation.
Got it. I got a big one for you.
OK, with your experience as a competitor at Run for the
Million, probably the most prominent appealing event that

(44:54):
our industry's seen to date, do you think that raining is a
sport that can be spectator friendly and truly attract a
fan? Yes, I've seen some run for the
million, say three years ago when Patriot won, every single
horse was so good. Everyone was just as good.

(45:17):
I don't know how the judges, even they don't you know who is
better than who. They don't.
They're having a hard time. It's a different story this.
Is. Yes, this is true.
The run for the million is the single best example because we
have 16 unique best of the best.It's true for it.
This is a true fact. The best of the best for six

(45:40):
years running. Our officiating system cannot
separate. That's a fact.
And that's why they all get bunched up.
Taylor learned it in year 1 and that's why he wrote his own
rules on a tiebreaker because our system has not elevated to
be able to contend with that. That is true.
So then comes the rest of what you were making reference.

(46:02):
To well, the rest of them, everybody brings every, every
dog they have, you know, to try to get in there.
The big shows, this client wantsyou to show their horse no
matter what. And so you have to, you know,
get down to the three. And so it's not necessarily the
best of the best of the best andjust, and at least they have two

(46:23):
rounds to go in. I'm talking about the the pros,
at least they have two rounds togo in because that kind of
narrows down that 3400, you know, field into something more
workable. But, you know, or one could have
a good show on the on the first round and then the the finals,

(46:43):
you know, not be as good. That's a tough one because I
wish there was a qualification to get into the fraturity.
A qualification, you know, a qualification show, you know,
like say the Southwest, you know, they that narrows down a
lot when they go to the Southwest in October, you know,
to narrow it down into that. And they wouldn't have as many,

(47:03):
you know, big open. But I know they come from all
over the world. So how is that going to work?
And in the non pro you're on twodifferent.
I hear you, but you're on two different subjects and this is
where if you were on the board, these would be phenomenal
conversations you could have at horse shows to be then
discussing big decisions for an industry such as a sport of

(47:26):
rainy because the NRHA is the governing body which they get
lost in that space. But hang on for a second because
the run for the million is trulyunique on both levels for non
pros and pros because 1 you qualify way months in advance
and two you're qualifying a rider.
It is completely independent of the horse.
The horse gets them qualified but they can pick whatever horse

(47:50):
they want. Comes Showtime which is is the.
Same with the non pro. As far as I know, yes you have
to own the horse, but that's it.But.
But I think isn't the non pro, Doesn't the non pro differ in
that? Teresa, can't you?
Couldn't you ride more than one in the non pro if you wanted to?
Yes, because several of them did.
OK, So the Open the thing that we like about the Open is it's

(48:11):
one horse only, which is we're abig proponent for that because
who in the hell decided to ridershould be able to ride 3
originally in the 60s when that righted know more about why that
why that was written into the rule book to begin with.
I think that I think that maybe that maybe that non pro
qualifier should go back to a single one just like the open
dose instead of allowing them tohave.
Two or three, right so and the horse that you qualified on.

(48:35):
Those are some key issues, but from a competitive standpoint,
that's very different than having.
It doesn't matter if you have 100 or 600 horses show up at a
major event and you got to qualify 25 or 30 horses it take
to a finals. That is a completely separate
function than what the what the Run for the Million is right now
doing by bringing them only talking about the open 16 of the

(48:58):
best open riders together on an annual basis and they can pick
whatever horse they want with norestrictions.
There's no age, no limit, no nothing.
I think that that's from a sportthat's a very, those are very
different competitive structures.
So that's all that's why I bringit up.
And, and to people like you on aboard, those are phenomenal

(49:22):
things to talk about, especiallywhen you measure success.
Because making the finals of theRun for the Million is one
thing, Making the finals to an aged event and purse
distribution is another thing. That they're not even the same,
exactly. Yes, but I think that they
should ride the horse that they qualified on.

(49:44):
It'd be because that's that's what they qualified on.
You know that that payer, that rider horse payer is what they
qualified on. They should continue that and
bring it to, you know, the rightoff, just like if you were in
the same show and qualified and then a week later Ride I.
Hear you, but I'll give you the rest of it because then you're
going to get into substitution rules because you have all the

(50:05):
what ifs and the things that canhappen yeah, when you.
In case the horse died or in case the horse is lame and that
kind of thing. Yeah, all those things.
So and this year Fernando Sagatowas a prime example.
He got hurt a month before the run for the million and and they
said because he couldn't show, they took the next person on the
list got qualified. But Fernando is automatically

(50:28):
qualified for next year. So all he's got to do, yes.
And all he's got to do is then pick a horse, train a horse,
conditional horse, which is a whole different chore when
you're talking about, you know, six months to 12 months of prep.
So it's just a different dimension, right?
So anyways. You always have to have the ifs

(50:49):
what if type thing for just about everything.
Sure. Well, well, Teresa, what what's
a part, part of these goals? You've hit them, right?
I mean, you, you've hit them. What's what's next?
What are the next set of goals? What have you set for yourself
now? Well, I still have the select

(51:09):
world. Yep.
Great horse show. And I have the bronze and I have
all these fourth, you know, medallions.
But I want the golds. I mean, why not?
The gold. The Globe.
Yeah. Yeah, at the World Show.
Yeah, OK. Sure.

(51:31):
And you know, that's that's a good goal is to have the gold
that that trophy is awesome. And to just say that, you know,
for that one time in that moment, you know, you're the
best in the world in that category, which I've, you know,
I've strived for a lot over the years.

(51:52):
Really think that with the rightpreparation that Maverick and I
can get close to it or or do it actually.
Sure you can. Sure you can.
Absolutely you can. Wouldn't it be fun to see that?
Like, yeah, I don't have a trainer.
I've done this myself. I couldn't.
I couldn't think of a better thing to have happen.
We we want one simple commitmentregardless of the outcome.

(52:15):
We want to do a show with you post World Show.
OK. And talk about that journey for
you. Well, how about at the show?
How I feel when I come out. Yeah, right.
Well, that's part of it too. Maybe we should maybe.
And the select, where have they got the select?
Is it in Oklahoma City this year?
It's in Oklahoma City and unfortunately the raining is the

(52:39):
last day of the whole show, the last class the last day, and
that's on the 19th of November. Well, we may.
We may be. And there's no elimination.
Before, when it was in Amarillo,you know, you'd have a hundred
horses and they would do the elimination down to the top 30,
I think 15 to 3050, the top 30. And yes, I always made that.

(53:03):
But here I could not find in theschedule that there was two,
there was an elimination. The number one, the number of
entries, just tell them class sizes now.
So usually they're just a go round, even for the junior and
the senior now. So it's it's changed.
I don't know exactly why. As far as like the Open, there
used to be 100 head in the junior and the senior.
See, the World Show is huge and now there's 1015.

(53:24):
Yeah. So maybe.
Because it's in Oklahoma City and it's so close to so many
other horse shows. It used to be in in August, mid
August in Amarillo, even though it was hot as blazes, but still,
you know, the arena was fine. The arena was wonderful and they
had it. They it was all the best part of
that show is it was the select world was all non pro.

(53:47):
They catered to the non pros. Everything was for the non pros.
There was not any open classes at all.
The whole show was was non pros.I mean, it was awesome.
Brian has lobbied for that forever, as one of his best
ideas ever is to separate our major events and no ancillary
classes. Then let's go somewhere else and
have the ancillary classes and keep the trainers out of it.

(54:10):
You know what I mean? Trainers can still come to the
show the. People that have trainers that
have all of the non pros but they rather be at home riding
their young horses and their other horses.
Then take some ancillary non propeople you know for three or
four days. They'll they'll go to you if you
tell them. You won't write them a check
unless they go right. You pay them.

(54:31):
They'll go, you pay them, they'll go.
But I I think I think it was. The best show that I've ever,
ever been to because it was so awesome.
It was it was all about us. And they cater to us.
And they, yeah, they were even riding around in a little golf
cart, you know, with a big thingof, of waters and sodas and

(54:52):
snacks and everything. Round up and down the bars.
Can we get you anything? Do you need anything?
Can we take anywhere 'cause you know, everything.
It was all about us, yeah. And it should have been COVID
was the one that flipped that over and they took the select.
They quit doing the select and they merged it with the open
with the world. Champion.
So yeah, anyways, I'll. Now have my opinion of both

(55:16):
right. Well, we, we, yeah, we'll,
we'll, we'll be interested in inhearing about your show
experience and where you finished up.
No matter what, whether you're carrying that gold one out or
carrying another bronze one out,We want to know, I think, and I
think everybody that watches this show will absolutely turn
in to see what that next one is like too.
So I think that's cool. You bet.

(55:36):
It's really nice. I.
Think it's phenomenal. Yeah.
Well, I think the select world being a standalone event does
prove to be one of those tests to the testament that I've
always made reference to. And that was my question earlier
about separating treating the non pro segment of the industry
different than the open side. And I think we're I think we're

(55:57):
past time economically as well as other.
But that'll also lead me back towhat's the best measurement for
success because I don't think money earnings.
But you know, they can kind of do it now if they would schedule
the way the classes are, if theywould put all the open not pro

(56:19):
classes together and then they could go home or not worry about
their classes anymore. And then have the non pro after
the pro classes, the open classes.
Because if you have the open classes after the non pro,
they're still working on their horses.
They're still worried about riding their horses and
everything else. So have the open classes first.

(56:39):
They can get their all of their things, you know, done.
They can send the horses home orwhatever and then have the non
pro so that it would be a like aseparate show and then the
people could come. The ones that are are the the
ancillary. Then they could come to the show
afterwards and just be a non proshow.

(56:59):
Now be there for 14 days, however long they are now,
right? Yeah.
Well, they are there now anyway.Look at Tulsa and look at some
of the big stuff. Two weeks.
Cool. Yeah, I think good, good points.
Yep, that's something that the the board of directors is going
to have fun. We look forward to seeing you on
that board. Yeah, absolutely.

(57:21):
And the thing about that is, as you go, find like minded people
like yourself, bring them along.Power and numbers on that board
for sure. That's right.
Yeah, absolutely. Cool.
Way, way good. It's been a pleasure.
We've enjoyed every minute of it.
We could, we could pick any subject in the sport and keep
going forever, but we won't. I think your year is phenomenal

(57:46):
and I think it, it's got to be ahuge inspiration to many, many
people, without a doubt, becauseall of us as we get older, you
know that that our head gets in the way a lot.
And the thing that you just emphasized is don't let your
head get in the way. Have a simple conversation and
enjoy it, right? I know, and you know that
talking about the video that went out, I have had, I think

(58:10):
there's way over 10,000 views, maybe even double that because I
haven't followed up on some of them doesn't even count.
And I have had at least 10,000 people want to be friends with
me on Facebook. And I've had it, thousands, I'd
say thousands of people text me,send me messages that are so

(58:33):
inspired that they can still ride those ladies that are, you
know, getting up in or retired from working or never work, but
they are getting older and they don't think they can.
They think they'll fall off. And it's like, what if you
don't, you know, what if you don't fall off?
You get on and you ride and you don't fall off.
But it's just I've had. So it's what's been wonderful is

(58:55):
all of the people that have contacted me and all of the men
and women that have contacted meand said they were so inspired.
And thank, you know, thank me for, you know, keep going and
getting the message out. I think it's phenomenal.
Yeah, I do too. Yeah.
I can't thank you enough for bringing that to us.
And when Brian told me that thathe had the opportunity or
thought about doing a show, I'm like, oh, hell yes, let's do

(59:19):
this. So, and, and I, I, I'm right
along with him. Let's do another one.
So anyway, Teresa, well. It would be fun just to follow
up because it's it's it's been ait's been a phenomenal year that
Teresa has set out to accomplishtwo major things this year, run
for the million on the non pro challenge and now the select
world show. So I mean.
To the biggest. Why not, right?
Yeah. Absolutely.

(59:40):
Well. And I'm not going to put him in
any other shows between now and then.
I don't want to wear him out. I don't want to push him
anything, you know, only hit forthe big shows.
Right, I'll I'm going to come and watch you.
So anyway, I'm close enough. I get to do it.
All is good. You can.
Go thank. You very much for inviting me on
the show. OK, well, until the next time,

(01:00:03):
stay in the middle, OK? Enjoy the ride, Theresa.
Thank you very much. Bye.
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