EP# 47 Chasing 82 NRBC 2026 Open Derby Review

Complete analysis of the Open Derby Classic at the 2026 NRBC event in Tulsa, OK.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Cowboy Office Show, Your Co host are Jodi
Brainerd and Brian Dyer, reigning industry veterans with
over 120 years combined experience judging, training,
living and serving this western lifestyle.
The Cowboy Office Show brings you expert analysis and epic
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(00:22):
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Saddle up as we ride into today's show.
This is the NRBC Open Derby Review show and here come the
four year olds. This episode is brought to you
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(00:43):
for champions and made the last.Visit them at
pollylastglobal.com. All one word
pollylastglobal.com. I can attest to this high
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And if you've been to Westworld in the last few years, you've

(01:05):
been on this flooring and product, it's phenomenal.
It's all through the wash racks,goes across the roadway with the
stabling and all throughout the Tony Nelson Equestrian Center.
Welcome to Chase in 82, and thank you to Polylast Global.
I'm Brian. And I'm Jody and I'd like to
welcome Polylast Global to sponsor.
It is indeed Brian. It's an awesome product.

(01:27):
We've had it at OSU in the equestrian barn for, I don't
know, 20 some odd years out of memory.
It was there before I I came on board, but it's it lasts a
really long time. That's phenomenal footing.
We're going to talk about this NRBC, having watched a great
deal of this just because even though it's 70 miles away, I
ended up watching from home mostof the time anyway.
I'm a little bit guilty of not driving over the seats.

(01:49):
So that stuff live. What an incredible horse show.
And we've said the same thing inour lifetimes over and over
again for the last 30 years, 40 years.
How can they possibly get any better?
And here I am asking that same question again.
How in the world can they get any better?
What an incredible horse show this was and I can't wait to
dive into it. Talk about some of the stats and
the numbers that you have come up with and I'm excited about

(02:11):
it. Well, we've got the numbers and
you're 100% correct. Everybody's getting amazed every
time we see a competition. Yes, it keeps getting better and
the depth is just phenomenal andwe'll get into the numbers in a
minute. These guys had over a 30%
increase in entries. Now we're talking about the open
only and it was largely driven because they added a four year

(02:32):
old section, but you're talking about 323 horses four days ago
round. We've got the analysis.
It's going to be great. I think one of the cool things
in today's time is that we can follow it from home.
We don't have to go there and spend 14 hours a day.
So that's actually a good thing.There are a lot of people
following our sport online and Ithink that that's a it's a great

(02:57):
thing. It's a blessing in disguise no
matter what. Again, 323 horses in the open
draw, 125 of them are in the four year old section only.
These guys added four sections level 1234 or 4 year olds only.
Now part of what happens when you do that, so you know they
had 11 divisions throughout the entire open draw, which is kind

(03:21):
of a monster. But what it also happens is that
if you have 4 year olds only andother aged event horses, you can
be riding more than three horses.
So that puts a whole nother dimension in that.
I and God bless those guys if they think they can do it right,
Have fun. But there's also a piece in

(03:42):
there because you and I have talked about it.
It puts a constriction in the business side are more younger
up and coming trainers having access to quality stock when the
mainstream trainers are occupying 4-5 and six of them to
show right. Absolutely.
And you know, we've talked aboutthis many, many times, too.
It was the time for that. Is it time for that 4 year old

(04:02):
who essentially this time of year we've said it over and over
again, or essentially just three-year olds?
My goodness. I mean the 30 just got over with
for the four year olds, right? So is it time for a standalone
event there for just the fours and not mix those in with these
aged aged horses? I said that the four year olds,
I mean, they're great, great horses too with the numbers that
these guys shown that it's possible to have.

(04:23):
And I'm going to be interested to see what they NRHA Derby's
going to do down the road too. So you know, do you have any
thoughts about that? Well, yes, and that's going to
be a show coming up in the next 30 days.
But did you see the press release that the NRHA just put
out like within the last week I did 150,000 added to 4 year olds
in the NRHA Derby. So and I don't know how they're

(04:44):
going to have the entries broke out, but you're 100% correct.
It's going to be interesting to see because 100X has been doing
it already, so if that's the wayit's going to unfold in 2026,
will that precipitate stand alone 4 year olds?
It's going to be interesting to see and I agree with you because
now when you come and have to dothe analysis on officiating 4

(05:08):
year olds, competing against other 4 year olds is a much more
consistent and fair competition than having them go against the
567 year olds. Ending exactly and I like I said
it it'll be it'll be interestingto see what what transpires.
But yeah, it's I think that and I again, don't want to this,
this show is this is an amazing show.

(05:29):
And these horses were incrediblein in all divisions.
But you know that, that Derby, with the faturity last year in
the Derby and the numbers that they have to deal with already.
I'm glad I don't have to manage that horse show.
So we'll, we'll talk about that when it's over in a month or so.
But anyway, back to this, this horse show footing was so good.
And you know, when we'd had a chance to talk to Tom, he said
they'd actually had to get rid of one of the practice pins for

(05:51):
stalls, right? I mean, because he had he had
said that the numbers had exploded.
I don't know if there's an end to it.
Well, there's going to have to be, and it's, it's two weeks
long, their website. So anybody that wants to go,
it's actually really simplenrbc.com.
This is their homepage. We're going to get to this
because coal and this horse coalprice and golden coins won it

(06:13):
last year. They win level 4 this year.
So we'll get back to that in a minute.
But the website for the NRBC is nrbc.com.
Pretty simple and straightforward.
Also, that's going to go into all this.
You got a Jodie, just as a note to say with this event, with the
NRBC event, we will have looked at and analyzed 762 entries in

(06:34):
the last three months. That's the last 90 days.
So that's only 1/4 of the year. We're just at the beginning.
It's going to be pretty wild. We're off to a great start.
And you can't make comparisons and lift you out data and that's
what we're doing. We got it right.
Yes, we got it and we saw it. Just as little bit of a
footnote, we saw some phenomenalhorses at the NRBC.

(06:55):
There was 2 pass fraternity champions, Crystallized whiskey
was there. She didn't make it to the
finals, but she was shown and wesaw her in Florida too.
And I meant to bring that up when we did that piece because I
was wondering what was going on and now I know she was.
Obviously they're kind of getting warmed up and I'm
assuming getting prepared for here, but she didn't make it

(07:16):
through the fireman, he made it.He ends up third, fourth has a
heck of a good horse show. And then we saw a few other
phenomenal horses that we've seen in the last few years like
Spooks Got Ice just wins the qualifier with Gabriel Borges
less than a few weeks ago. Double O 7, phenomenal horse,

(07:38):
Holy Shmoly, and I'd love to putDouble O Sevens run side by side
digitally with the run. The Golden Coins is now kicking
out twice in a week. Cool stuff Mcnasty, Great Horse,
Custom Dreams, Casey Deary's been riding, and many more, but
we're seeing a bunch of. Andy yeah, like I said, those

(07:58):
and and the thing about it too, I'm sure we'll talk about this a
little bit later on the show too.
But so many of these horses thathave have won so much money are
showing like they're 3 year olds.
So I'm just amazed at how well these horses are, you know, and
it's I don't care Anytime you'rein a single spot for two weeks,

(08:21):
it's a long time. I mean, and you know, shows have
evolved and in our day that I have turn of us a week and we
thought it was really long time.And but are you there that long
time? You're there two weeks with the
paid warm up time and stuff. But maybe that's what it takes
to make these guys show like they are, because holy cow, they
just take them and drop their head and look like, yeah, OK,
here's Horsha. Good stuff.
I agree with you and I've got a chart that we're going to bring

(08:43):
up in a little bit because it'llshow the age and the sex of the
of the leaders coming out of thego round.
And it's actually interesting because of course with the four
year old section, those were allfour year olds, but then five
and six and sevens. And I think your point's highly
valid. How fresh these horses are
looking at 5-6 and seven years old.
Is it the paid warmups? Is it, I'm not sure what it is,

(09:05):
but they're doing a phenomenal job and these horses are waiting
on those riders. I mean, I mean you, you, you
don't see them come around the corner and lift up and kind of
take hold of the riders and go on their own.
They are definitely waiting. So it's got to be a combination
of all of it. But I'm sure the schooling and
training and preparation is way different than in our time.

(09:26):
Exactly. So yeah, it's it's amazing.
Well, we'll look at entries first.
OK, now it's a little bit skewed.
Here it is, and this is the lastthree years at the NRBC Open
Derby. So again, everybody's got to
remember that we are only looking at and analyzing the
open side of the NRBC Classic. But in 2024 they had 250.

(09:48):
Last year was down 5 percent, 236.
Now this year it takes a huge jump, 323 entries, 36% increase
in entries. And then, you know, the obvious
is why? Well, because they added 125
head of four year olds only. I mean, they put in an incentive
for the four year old to go ahead and come on.

(10:10):
So yes, great. I, I think it's cool.
It's going to be interesting to see if this becomes a trend to
the rest of the industry again. They had 11 divisions this year
because of the added 4 year old sections and there was actually
five of them 4 sections of open 4 year old and 1 four year old

(10:30):
novice horse section. Then they had custom, the custom
cash, the APHA payout for paintsand they had a prime time.
And when you see names, I don't know why it shocks me, but when
I look at the prime time list and it to me, I think that those
are young people. Yeah.
They they. Were when we were so.

(10:51):
Anyway, yeah, we've lobbied for that change, you know, a long,
long time ago. So.
And like I said, you know how you feel right now.
There's not a whole lot of difference between that 40 and
50 and even that to that 50 and 60.
But you get over that 60 hump now, buddy, let me tell you
something. Stuff starts to rearrange itself
whether you want it to or not. So like that.
Well, when Craig Smerzell shows up on the prime time list, it's

(11:13):
like something's not right. So anyway.
Right. Exactly.
Or Shawn, any of those guys. It's like what?
Right. So yeah, stuff is stuff is
crazy. But yeah.
And I was just looking at that 11, you know, I've been away
from it so long, you might have to take an attorney in your
accountant to know how to enter these things, right?
I mean, there's so, so many different spots that you slot
into and slot out of. And I guess maybe it's positive,

(11:36):
but is it? Do we need that many?
I don't know, That'd be an interesting one to talk to the
trainers about because of courseto the pros, money is a lot.
That's how they earn a living. That is how they're getting
their significant reward for allthe hard work that goes into it.
True for the horses and the Breeders as well.

(11:57):
So I don't want to take that away from them.
And I understand the concept of one big run and you get the most
out of it, which is where these multiple purses in a draw come
into play. But I do think there's a couple
things. I think one of the requirements
on entry, because the level up or level all you got to enter

(12:19):
the top and then you can enter other ones that you're eligible.
All of those things are a littlebit maybe not as exhibitor
friendly to the up and comings because it puts an undue
economic burden on the younger trainers that are up and coming
and they don't have the stock. They don't have the stock and
they don't have the experience yet.
So what are we doing as an industry?

(12:39):
I always question that. Yeah, exactly.
Would have been an interesting question to ask, Tommy.
I wish I'd have thought about that.
You know, that would have been a.
That would have been a good one.So, well, we'll get it with one
of these guys. This year, exactly.
And, and we'll talk about, I didwant to point out because these
guys are now billing the NRBC is$1,000,000 show because their
total payout is now more than a million and which would be true,

(13:02):
but just in the open side of theDerby, you got 950,000.
Oh well done. And they paid, you know, 9091
thousand and then go round money, right, Which I was very
impressed when I saw that. And then of course, 857,000 in

(13:24):
all the finals. And the thing that I really give
them credit for is that if you make the finals, you're getting
a paycheck. The only ones that did not get
paychecks were zeros or scratches.
So if you stayed on pattern and get a score and you're in the
finals, you're getting a check. Good for them.
Yes, exactly. Yeah, the Go Rob checks were on
the top end. They were good.
Yeah, boy. Yeah.

(13:45):
So I want to show you, there's acouple things that I'm going to
show you real quick. The basic scattergram, which I
know you always think I'm crazy about this one.
This just looks at last year andthis year on the big points,
which is high score, high individual score, cut line, some
of those things. And all it does is let you kind

(14:05):
of see in a fast comparison yearto year.
And for the most part, it's right on target.
When we look at cut lines, though, you'll actually see if
you look at the detail and here's the cut lines across the
four open divisions last year compared to this year.
And it actually takes a step up,which is exactly what you were

(14:27):
saying at the onset, Jodie, which is the depth.
It's like we keep getting amazedand we do.
Well, this is part of it. You know, it took a 222 to make
the level 4. That was the cut. 218 1/2 for
level 3/2/15 and 1/2 for level 2.
That's it's, that's starting to get there.
And the 210 is steady across both years.

(14:48):
That's for level 1. You know that 215 1/2, that's
right. A 72.
You got to have control of that,which is a level 2 open guy
coming through the ranks. I thought that was pretty
interesting. Yeah, I think that's those are
really interesting. So, yeah.
And it's and they just, you know, and like I said, we've,
we've talked about this because where is that going to stop in

(15:11):
another two or three years, right?
Holy moly. We think they're as good as they
can be and no, they're not right?
So. Right.
Well, and another interesting point.
I'm going to go back to the scattergram quick only for this
point because high score, high score last year was 224, high
score this year was a 231 1/2, median score midpoint last year

(15:32):
was at 212 1/2 and median midpoint score this year 215.
So when you go through all thoseof go rounds, which that is a
whole step, that's a point per judge per run across the whole
thing. I found that interesting myself.
So I know I'm a little bit aboutnumber nerd.

(15:54):
And I and and I watched a lot ofthese runs and, you know, the
230 ones accurate or are you going to pay more?
I'm I'm saying that that I I don't, I don't put the numbers
down last year's compared to this year's because of tighter
judging or the officiating. I I think the horses were

(16:14):
better. Maybe it's a combination of
both, but I I think the horses were they were so good.
So yeah, this was AI think this was well assist.
Well, on on that note, the question would become because
more officials are marking higher level horses on an annual
basis, is there skill level of being accurate and marking at

(16:37):
that level also elevating? I would say probably yes.
Is anybody kind of measuring that?
Not sure. But because we're seeing we're
now in the thousands of entries on an annual basis and you got
50 or 60 judges doing all of that work.
So are they routinely seeing more deeper horses and getting

(16:59):
way more comfortable of splitting the one and 1 1/2 or
plus half and plus one and all the rest of that?
And my senses say absolutely yes, that's true.
I agree. And I think that I think that
and that and they should, I mean, if you're going to, you
know, I mean, it's like it doesn't make any difference.
If your team sport and your division is pretty weak, you're

(17:19):
not very good. But if you have to play a bunch
of good schools, you become better.
And I think these horses by their nature and by the
trainers, and then they have to get better because they're, I
mean, just judging, officiating has to become better.
There's still plenty of room because we still have that big
box of ties down there at that, you know, that 2:20 to 2:22, the
hard part about separating horses are really, really good

(17:40):
ones are easy. But when it falls off to like,
say the, you know, 15 to 30th, it's like it's just a big
cluster. So those are very hard to
separate. And there's still some room for
improvement. But by and large, I think it's
gotten better. Yes, I agree with you on all
those regards. I think that I think the
pressure on officiating to get accurate for the depth of

(18:02):
competition that we're seeing intoday's time is incredible.
I know they know it, I know theycan feel it and I know that they
are trying hard. It's the rest of the industry
that hasn't kind of helped them out yet.
And so which is 100% correct because where does it get
significant making cut lines? You're talking about 15 to 20
horses sitting on the bubble of a cut line by half a point.

(18:23):
And that half a point can come in a lot of different forms and
from a lot of different areas, and it makes a difference.
So that's true. So yes.
Good, good stuff. Yeah, a few interest I want to
show you. We'll we're going to come back
to this. But just because you were
talking about it, making reference, take a peek at this.
This is Cole Price's scorecard from the go round.

(18:45):
He was draw 1:30 on golden coins, which ends up winning the
whole thing. He wins the go round 300 horses
and wins the level 4 open. We'll get to that card too.
But if you just look at this card real quick, it's all once
and then there's 12361 and a half.
That's out of 35 maneuvers marked.

(19:06):
So it just emphasizes the point that you were just making.
Now that's golden coins and he'sa phenomenal 1, which is kind of
like a 007, kind of like a Spook's Got ice.
I mean some of those kind of step up and let you do that as
an official. The hard work is 1 notch down,
which is those 222 to 225 horses.

(19:27):
So we'll, we'll get to it in a minute, but I just thought that
was very impressive. That's a great stat, a great
scorecard. Go round scorecard, Yeah.
Yeah, how'd you like to own thatone?
I'd rather I'd rather own him, try and beat him.
Yeah, well, that was my point. That was my point.
I, I did want to because we talked about that with in this

(19:48):
one, which is the number of mounts these pros could ride in
this year's NRBC because of the multiple divisions was actually
interesting. I didn't get it into a graph for
you, but I do have it in a breakout.
There were four riders that had six mounts in the go round.
OK. Now when you when you park that

(20:08):
across four days, it certainly does that helps it that lets
them get. Those horses shown and sorted.
Now when they start to make the finals, that gets to be a
different story and we'll get tothat.
But you had four riders that hadsix horses, you had five riders
that had five horses, you had seven riders that had four
horses. And then you see what normal,

(20:31):
which is 29 horses, 29 riders had three horses, 4 riders had
two horses, and 71 riders came with 1.
So that's the way the riding component breaks out in this
year's NRBC. I just thought it was pretty
interesting when you looked at it and the fact that we saw

(20:53):
riders could ride more than three horses in the go round,
that that's like not normal. No, it it certainly is not.
And and no matter what you have a large number of entries large,
you know, I mean, they the odds favor the numbers, right?
I mean some of these guys if they're bringing, you know,
they've got three had a really nice horses.
I mean, I always looked at that in a finals of some of those

(21:14):
riders had three horses in a finals.
They may have an error on one, possibly 2 but never 3.
I mean, so you know, under this,like I said, the numbers are
numbers are what they are. But then talk real quick, if you
had two or three qualified for the finals, is it easier to get
the last one prepared or the first one prepared or the

(21:34):
middle? I mean, and I get it that
there's individualism to horses and you're not going to be able
to control how they get drawn inthe finals.
But I'm relating it to how you would manage it in your head.
And so it would seem to me that you could get the first one
prepared, probably the best, andthe other two you just do the
best you can because time is against you.
Am I somewhat in the ball game? Yeah, absolutely.

(21:56):
And I think that as the numbers have improved and, and you know,
you're a trainer, you're trying to do the best possible job as
you can for your client to be able to tell, tell him or her
that, yes, we've made the finals.
And, you know, on those three horses.
And I, I, I think if you, if youcould get an honest answer from
trainers, I mean, you know, theywould rather have two than
three. I, I really believe that they

(22:17):
would say if, if you could say what they'd say, I'd rather get
2 ready for the finals than 3. So I mean.
And then you can have a maximum spread between them and then you
can get them both ready and havegood shots.
Yeah, and we talked about that many, many times in previous
shows that is it time to limit the numbers right, to spread

(22:38):
them out. But anyway, that's not for us to
decide. We've asked that question many,
many times, you know. You know, you yourself have
brought it up many, many times. A run for 1,000,001 horse.
They make it work just fine, butit works.
You know, we're going back to the 1960s when everybody said we
ought to have three head, right?And yeah, it's, it's a question

(22:59):
that that should be continually asked.
Well, and analyzed I, I think it's goes beyond asking anymore.
This is in the modern day is we need analysis, intelligent
analysis and what's best for notonly the individual but also the
industry. That can now be done.

(23:19):
There's, there's no doubt about it.
So yes, I want to give you 3 other key things because we
talked about this and we have from the beginning of the year
and we will throughout the entire series.
Unique. So in the draw, 323 unique
riders because the ones I just told you was 160, which is
almost half, 49 1/2% of the entire draw were made-up of

(23:43):
unique riders. Nick Sires, this one, it is
fascinating to me. Now the NRBC is a closed
breeding program. Those sires have to be in the
program in order for the offspring to be eligible.
That's true. So I wasn't overly surprised,
but you had 56 unique sires out of 323 open draws.

(24:08):
So that's a pretty strong nucleus of sire potential and
then? Yes, it is.
I mean, that's. So if you want to play this
game, you better have an NRBC stud on your list if you're
going to breed one. That's basically what it's

(24:28):
saying, unique dams and the thing that we are seeing because
of breeding components now the NRB CS open to 4 year olds to 7
year olds. So it's not uncommon to have
dams can have multiple foals in it.
But we're seeing as of the last two years I believe where a dam
is having multiple foals per year.

(24:50):
So we're going to see the numberof offspring in the competition
space from a dam increase. That's true.
Unique dams in this year's NRBC Open was 251 out of 323, which
is 77%. So you're right at 3/4 are
unique, but you got 1/4 of them that are having multiple progeny

(25:15):
at this level of competition, which is the top.
So I just think that that's kindof cool stuff.
It is and that, but that word, you know, and we again, like I
said, not to be repetitive, but that word unique used to mean
something and it is not that unique anymore because you're
having how many, I mean, full brothers and sisters that are
competing at the same time. And so is that a good thing?

(25:37):
Maybe from the prize money standpoint, but you know,
they're not, they're not a unique individual anymore,
right? So it it, it waters, it waters
down the soup. Yes, it, yes, it can and it
will. And it's going to be interesting
to see in the next 8 to 10 years.
What does that do? I don't know.
It's going to be interesting. Good question.
Yeah, yeah. And it's good thing we'll watch

(25:57):
it. We'll have the numbers.
So sure. Absolutely.
We'll keep picking away. We're going to put a little bit
of emphasis into golden coins and coal price.
Congratulations. Second year in a row, I'm not
sure. Do you remember, Have we seen
this before of a repeat at the NRB?

(26:18):
CI don't think so. I can't remember it happening.
It's difficult to win the thing once right.
I mean I can't remember somebodygoing back and you know what,
and it's A and not only is it a hard thing to do, it's a hard
thing to get mentally ready for.I mean just because you know,
you go back as the defending champion and then you win the go
round and you know, to come backand win the finals again.

(26:39):
You know, that's a from a from atrainer standpoint, from a rider
standpoint, mentally, that's it.That's a hard thing to do.
I I would I would hate going back into a finals, winning the
go routes. You know, a lot of sometimes
that doesn't work very well, right?
You're right. Wow, you know.
Yeah, so. Interesting.
And then the second, you know, 12 months between these two

(27:01):
events, this is a six year old stud this year, so he's 5 year
old last year shows and dominates the thing at that
level. And then 12 months later you got
a lot of things happening in 12 months, including the breeding
season. So, you know, getting them in
shape, getting their head in order, doing all the things you
got to do I very impressive, there's no doubt about it.

(27:22):
I've, I've asked myself about this, you know, over the years,
a lot of times when you're talking about professional human
athletes, you get the guys like the LeBron or Michael Jordan or
back in our hockey days, you know, Wayne Gretzky and how
those guys can be that much better than the best.
To me was amazing because any professional athlete is, is
great in its own right. And then you get an individual

(27:45):
that stands out like that And, and you know, the humans that,
you know, how, how can you be that much better than the best?
And this horse, when I see him, I, I, I likened it to, I got a
chance maybe 30 years ago to go watch Barry Sanders play
football in Green Bay. And it was probably 10 below 0.
And it was so flipping cold. And they talk about the, you

(28:07):
know, the, the turf with them, it's warm and all that kind of
stuff. But it was a slip turf.
And, and Barry Sanders ran through the Green Bay Packers 30
years ago. Like he was the only guy there.
I mean, he had linebackers falling down, receivers falling
down, everybody's falling down. Barry Sanders didn't slip.
And the guy didn't have better cleats.

(28:28):
The guy had better balance, right?
I mean, he just he is phenomenal.
And, and this horse is never outof balance.
It doesn't matter. I mean, and when I say that we
see really, really good horses that that can lose balance in a
stop or they can lose. Luca had a really great run
going on. Horse slips and falls down and
rollback. It's a balance loss.

(28:48):
This horse, it doesn't matter where his feet are, if he's
circling, if he's stopping, if he's rolling back, if he's
turning, he doesn't slip. I mean, he just like what?
It's easy for me, right? So yeah, he's, he's a, he's a,
he's a special piece. He's a special one and we're
going to we, we've got a copy ofthe run because it was all over
social media and all that stuff,which is very good.

(29:10):
I'm glad it did. I want to show you 2 pieces
because the top 4, this is what the NRC put out, which is the
top four winners of the open level, which we have it too.
And we've broken it out in a slightly different format it
just because we got the rest of the data that goes with it.

(29:31):
But the four open riders and allof this is fascinating.
I'm, I'm overly impressed. Cole Price, of course, wins
level 4/2/31 and 1/2. That horse is sired by Spooks
Got a Gun and that that damn electric Cha Ching X Tool
quarter horses and we've got a piece they own that mother.
Ruben Van Dorp wins the Level 3 with a 222 1/2 on a magnum chip

(29:56):
Dream. Level 2 is Nicole Johnson with a
221 1/2 and that's a sparkling vintage called Sparkling Bass.
And then Jack Berggren, I hope Isay that, right, Wins the level
one with a 220. And it's it's like, wow, right.
Yeah. Dude at 2:20 for the level 1,

(30:18):
and I congratulate Jack to his fiance is on OSU on my reigning
team, so just to bag me. So yeah, anyway, so I have a
little bit of a connection to that guy.
So anyway, congratulations to him.
But yeah, that a 220 to win the level 1.
It's like, you know, you're marking 70 threes and you know,
73 1/2 to when the level 1 are what is supposed to be our
easiest level, right? It's like, right, right.

(30:40):
No such thing as an easy reigning, so wow, yeah.
So I don't know how to those guys.
I only know what it was like when we came up.
Yeah, you and I, when we were coming up through the ranks and
it was a very different time. And I hear guys talk about it in

(31:01):
today's time and they want it tobe similar as tough or whatever.
And I completely disagree with all of that.
But it's because it's a different time.
So are you supposed to go through it the same way?
No, you're not. I do.
I and it was plenty tough in ourtime, no doubt.
But people don't remember. And yours in my time when we

(31:21):
were young assistant trainers trying to come through.
I mean, I remember like yesterday Rick Weaver went in
the fraternity as an assistant trainer to Bill Horn and that
was unheard of. But he does.
But there was only two classes. There was only there was an open
and there was a non pro and that's it.
And so the fraternity had an open fraternity for three-year

(31:44):
olds and we had a non pro fraternity for three-year olds.
But then when you went to the regular or show, there was an
open and a non pro. That's all there was.
Oh, and the only point to that is it's different time.
So I think about in today's time, you know, these young guys
and girls coming up, hold Johnson back, you know, holy

(32:05):
when you're riding 73 and 74 horses and trying to work your
way up that ladder, what it mustbe like for them.
I, I, I don't know if we we needto call one of them and get them
on the shows. Right, right.
Yeah. And, and kudos to him for
hanging in there. You know, Tommy brings it up
over and over and over again, the numbers of the guys that are
actually born in the states of the finals of these major events

(32:28):
now, because we're truly a worldwide sport.
And the guys that have that havecome into the state, you know,
if it's Brazil or if it's Ely orif it's the Austria or if it's
wherever they're in. And kudos to the to the young
trainers that are that are making the effort to try to
crack this hard nut. You know, it's a it's a chore
and that's no easier than it wasin our time.

(32:50):
But, but sometimes I think that people look at this and go like
sort of the, the way that our lives are now, it's like we want
instant success. And this is not something that
breeds instance to success, no matter where you are.
I mean, you have a lot of hard years of, of apprenticeship and
learning how to ride horses. So anyway, it's a it's no easier

(33:11):
now than it was. I agree.
So I do think about that often, especially when I see these
scores coming through. I do want to show you this one
because it goes across here comes this goes across the
entire go round. This shows you it, it does a few
things, but it it shows you. Now remember we had 11

(33:33):
divisions. So this is at the conclusion of
the go round and what happens going across the entire event,
what section they came from in the go round, how old they were,
what sex they are. And it breaks down because
here's and I'll just summarize it really simple for you.
There were two horses out of thefirst section that make it four

(33:57):
horses out of Section 2, three horses out of Section 3, and two
horses out of Section 4. There were 6-4 year olds, 2 five
year olds and three six year olds. 7 studs, 1 gelding, 3
mares make up the list of 11 winners coming out of all that.
So from the prime time through the Paint Horse piece in the

(34:21):
four year olds and the four openlevel pieces, that's what this
is. And it shows the payouts
according to scores two, 31225, the whole spiel and the payouts.
It paid $21,000 to win the go round.
I mean, talk about sweet. Amazing, right?

(34:42):
That used to that used to be thethe check to win the Derby.
Anyways, I just thought that waskind of cool stuff, but it's you
and I have talked about it many times as far as consistency and
officiating. When you look across go rounds
and where do they come from and you know, do they do they
deviate much because they do it,They can do one of two things

(35:04):
that can either constrict down or they can open up and get too
loose, so keeping themselves on kilter.
And we've got some data that will show you what the go round
looks like. But anyways, I just thought that
that was pretty interesting and it does speak very highly to
consistency. When you talk about 300 horses,
300 draws in four days, all of those things are true.

(35:26):
You got any questions? Not at all.
It's clear as a bell. It's like your numbers are
understandable. So no, I do not have.
Some interest. Let me point a few key ones
because this one, these numbers I don't think the average person
talks about. Let me just give them real
quick. This year 2026 NRBC Open Derby

(35:49):
Classic in the go round 7305 maneuvers were marked those 323
pause. They ran A7 maneuver pattern,
which is 35 maneuver scores per run and the math comes out to
11,305. That's.
That's like a lot. That's all.
That's a huge number. I mean, so right, So when you,

(36:13):
when you get your, when you go look at your scorecard or your
friend's go card or whoever's scorecard you got interest in
and you only see that scorecard and you have there, whatever
your opinion is of it, think about the fact that they did
11,304 more scores than the one you're looking at.
Just note to Self, in the finals, Section 1, they did 3400

(36:37):
maneuver scores Section 2, whichthere was 85 draws.
In Section 1 there was 32 draws because of ties in section two,
12180 maneuver scores in Section232 runs.
So when you talk about 32 horsesthat all can mark 222 and
better, you know that that's what the cut line was to go to

(36:58):
the finals. You can't tell me that what
we're asking those officials to do is not hard work.
It is. It's really hard work.
That makes the Open Classic at the NRBC 15,985 maneuvers.
You got a mark across that nine days, 10 days.
You know, and it is amazing. We've both been there.

(37:19):
We know what that's like. I will I will say this though,
being privately owned, they get to do what they want to.
And you and I have said over andover and over again, it is not
fair physically and mentally. And like I said, RHA is a great
association. It's made it made it made me a
living. But to enter NRBC, they can, I,

(37:41):
I think NRA can take a lesson here because, you know, NRBC
took their level four horses andran them the next day.
So they didn't, you know, you'retalking about maneuver
evaluations here. At least they were able to
separate those. Not only does it make it easier
to judge the good horses in one bunch, but the fatigue factor is
not there and you don't have downtime while you're waiting
for this finals performance to come.

(38:01):
And it's just such a, such a really nice way to, from an
officiating standpoint, to be able to run your horse show.
I mean, to judge it. So I I've never had the
opportunity to judge one like that, but I certainly would have
liked to have had that opportunity.
Correct. I thought it was interesting
because they had the they had the level 2, the second section
level 4 open final started at noon Central time, which I

(38:24):
thought and to my understanding,those official didn't do
anything else. So I mean, they really had them
ready for the finals and they did a phenomenal job, no doubt,
but they're they're putting in the effort to put on a great
finals for everybody. I think that that's really
interesting. So anyways, and, and the mere
fact of a Saturday afternoon opposed to pushing it in the

(38:44):
evening. Good for them.
I hope they keep creating because it's nothing but good
for the sport. And I agree with you 100%.
I'm going to show you 2. We got a couple clips quick
because golden coins is getting a lot of attention.
Wins it two years in a row. Special horse without a doubt.
Silver spurs owns and stands thestud Spooks got a gun.

(39:07):
That's the sire. The Spooks got a whiz.
So that makes this horse paternal half sire and and the
dam is electric Cha ching that X2 corridors is owns.
So the clips hang on. There is no sound to this.
These are just these are coming right off of Facebook right off
social clips. They're out there and going and

(39:28):
they do some cool editing to it because you can see this being
slow mode. Obviously calling this horse got
a bond and they know each other quite well.
So it's pretty it's it's pretty awesome stuff.
And I got another one coming OK,and this is another one, but it
goes a little and this was put out by X2 Quarter horses who

(39:49):
owns the dam of this horse. They were just the mother of
this horse is congratulating Cole and golden coins and it's
pretty cool. Got some of the same clips.
Cool. No, no, it's really neat.
Yeah, it's. Special stuff.
Wow. Yeah, Yep.
He'd he'd have been. He'd have been fun to judge.
Yeah, yes, he would without a doubt remember the card, so I

(40:13):
can bring that one. Let me show you this and then
we're going to take a peek at his run because it's been all
over social media. So we've got access to it and we
will run it. But let me show you this one
first, because now this is golden coin and coal prices.
Two runs. Draw 1:30 is the top card in the

(40:35):
go round, and then the bottom card is draw 19 in the Section 2
finals. They're pretty impressive.
But I would also tell you, this is just me.
I would tell you they're a little on the conservative side
too, because there is plenty of room.
While we talk about this, a lot of times I question this, are we

(40:57):
looking for perfection as opposed to just identifying
excellence and is that why we see fewer plus 1 1/2?
I question that. That's just my question to what
we're doing and this exemplifiesa piece of that.
Do you have a take on? That well, you know, I do and I

(41:18):
watch this horse and like you know, like I said, he previously
alluded to this guy's balance and he's one that, you know,
this is a horse that can they can run a set of circles and I
think the circles are very good without having to use a great
deal of speed just because of the way that this horse is, you
know, and the quality of his movement and the way that he
steers and down transitions and all that good stuff.
When I look at this horse turn and I look at him stop, I think

(41:42):
he defines excellence. Like I said, it's not
perfection, but some of the stuff I I asked myself how, how
can it possibly be any better? I mean, I don't know how.
So I would say I would rather than say define excellence, I
would say tell me what isn't excellent about this maneuver
that this horse does. I, I that would be, that would
be an interesting way that I would like to.

(42:03):
I would have that unofficial tell me, you know, so because I
could have called five of those maneuvers excellent without any
issue at all and called the other very good.
So I mean, I just. Completely agree.
And what what a great way to look at it.
And again, maybe that's part of it, what we got to help
ourselves to do in the little bit of prep and training is, is

(42:24):
asking that question in an opposite or alternative way,
because there it is. And I agree with you.
And we're going to see, I know we are, we're going to see more
of this as time marches on, which is nothing but great for
the sport. Not just think of whatever.
I don't don't know. Will this horse show up with the
Run for the Million finals? I don't know.

(42:46):
Is is he going to show up at theNRHA Derby in a month?
So, and it's not just him, I mean the mere fact that
crystallized whiskey and the fireman, oops, got a ice.
I mean shoot the 50 of them right?
We're going to run his run and Iwant you to talk about it.

(43:07):
There is no audio in it. It's coming straight off of
Facebook because that it's out there buzzing around golden
coins. The horse is owned by Golden
Coins Limited LLCI don't know who's the ownership group in
there. They obviously got a Facebook
page. So this is coming right off it.
So give me a second. Here he comes.

(43:34):
Right. I mean, I mean just.
Phenomenal. You know, his approach is

(44:37):
excellent. His when he says woe to him, I
mean the horses balances, front end is excellent and he is in
full reverse before he has the opportunity at me just 1 1/2.
It's like turning that hard. It's a that's hard to to finish,
you know what I mean? To have a finish like that, a

(44:57):
balanced finish. So yeah, I'm, I'm for you know
what, I think his first set of turns, he had a penalty half and
he still won. So I I figured that I think that
those were excellent, so. On dead center in the middle,

(46:46):
from a pattern placement standpoint, you know all day
absolutely between the bridal reigns.
And you talked about balance a lot and you're 100% correct, but
you'll have a tendency to take that for granted watching this
horse because he's so good with it, just phenomenal.
I mean, his top line doesn't move.
He's you know, it's but like I said, you know, Cole does a

(47:07):
great job of telling him where to go on this guy.
He didn't even he didn't ask a single question.
He says, OK, I got this. Only two spots for the circle.
It's very good or excellent plusone and plus 1 1/2 and it gets
on. That's the one where your
question of how can it not be anexcellent.
Tell me why not? Yeah, tell me, why is it?

(47:27):
Yeah, that's. Yeah, and he's got his hand
right in the middle of this horse's main.
He's not, you know, you lose a little bit of speed on video.
This horse is running. Yeah, he's not loped in the
circle. I mean, he's an excellent.
I mean, from the slow, small pattern placement, large, fast
lead change. I I I consider that an excellent

(47:48):
set of circles. Yeah.

(48:10):
I do too and it and like I said,it doesn't have to be perfect.
That's not what excellence means.
You're absolutely right. I'd struggle to to make it
better. And how's my approach?
Awesome. Stop off rollback.
Awesome. Yeah, and even though it was a 2

(48:49):
point, it's still awesome. This horse is under.
This is a control game and this horse is so tuned in full
control, just the precision is just phenomenal and is not
looking for trouble, not at all.Never look at this.
And you could say the same thingabout that rollback, but it's
still not it it it's not undoingat all.

(49:12):
Yeah. Absolutely.
And he's just so honest around the end.
For a 6 year old stud, that and it's very my.
Goodness. And he doesn't even ask a
question in his approach. He didn't even he knows what's
coming and he just says OK. Yep, I'm waiting.

(49:55):
Yep, I'm waiting. Tell me master.
Look at his horses face, look athis expression.
His ears are perked up and he's kind of like bright eyed and
he's just another day, you know?Yeah.
So when you put that together with the scorecards and these
are the cards again, and it's yes, of course.

(50:16):
I think it's an interesting spotfor the industry.
We're not up for debate, but it's this is just an interesting
piece of where we are. And I think that you said it as
good as we can. Thank you.
Just kind of pull it all together with a few more stats I
do want to give you so that so that everybody can understand
score spreads is where everybodylikes to kind of talk about and

(50:39):
they can casually follow it. And so I can give there's two
things. And I will bring the graph in.
It won't do year to year, but it'll do this year's comparison.
I'll bring it in a minute. But when you look at score
spreads last year, now remember you had three sections.
This year you had four sections in the go round and then of

(51:00):
course 2 sets of finals. Pretty close.
Section one last year, 88.9% score spread rate, which is
88.9% of all scores were within two points.
That's what it says. This year's 83.5.
Section 2 last year was 83.1, this year is 82.8.

(51:23):
Section 3 last year was 87%, this year 91.8%.
It's actually one of the highestin score spreads, which means
they are absolutely in the normal range 92% of the time.
That's like actually really goodnow Section 4, There was no
Section 4 last year. Oh set, you added a section for

(51:44):
that. Another 80 head of horses this
year, 81.2 in their last section.
Oh, when you look across it, they're relatively equal last
year, this year, not the same judges, but yes, across the
competition is where's their consistency?
When you look at score spreads about take it one more step in
the finals last year was 86.2% on score spreads this year and

(52:07):
final section 191.8%. And that's actually a harder
section because you got more diversity.
Yet 85 horses in it, you got that.
That's level 1-2 and three together, so I'm not picking on
them, but that is it is demanding.
Understandable. And final Section 2 last year
was 85%, this year was 81.2, which is exactly what we were

(52:33):
just talking about. Now what didn't happen on Kohl's
run, but you will find plenty ofthose runs that are in that 222
to 225 category. They're not all seeing it the
same on quality. That's true.
That's where it comes from. Now when you talk about
accuracy, this is the go round. Now remember, this is Go round,

(52:57):
but this is using the scale in the Go rounds. 323 entries using
the scale maneuver pattern, 35 maneuvers per set of five judges
per run. This is exactly the way it
breaks out. OK, so and, and it'll show you
up in the top. And again, this is not new news

(53:18):
because this is where we all are, which is plus half plus 1 +
1 1/2 point. 2% of 323 runs had 1 1/2 in it.
But if you look in the top righthand corner, you will see the
breakout of minus half to plus half plus half, zero to plus one
and plus half to plus one. And it's the percent of those

(53:40):
maneuvers in that section on howthey break out accordingly.
And I got it for the finals, so I can tell it to you because
86.9% of the marks in the go round were from minus half to
plus half. That will compare to 81.4 in the

(54:01):
first section finals and 71% in the second section finals.
That's from minus half to plus half.
So you got to remember. So what's it doing?
It's displaying how much negative was in that section.
When you look at 0 to plus one, you had 87.7% in the go round,
77.7% of it was from zero to plus one.

(54:23):
In the final section, 189.5, you're at 90% of the maneuvers
marked in the Section 2 finals were zero to plus one.
And then when you look at just plus half and plus one
maneuvers, 56.5% was in the go round, 41.7% in Section 1

(54:46):
finals, 95.6, that's 3/4 of all the maneuvers in Section 2
finals were plus half or plus one.
That tells you how deep. Wow.
Absolutely. Indeed.
Just a crazy. Yeah.
And then we can take it one morestep, which is the accuracy

(55:08):
rate. And you and I talked about a lot
and we talked about the accuracybecause it's actually more
specific and more accurate than score spreads.
Score spreads is casual and whatit's actually telling you, it's
telling you that you have something to look at, but it
doesn't tell you any more than that.
So they spread on a given run bythree points, so to speak.

(55:28):
Whippy, do you have to go look at it and figure it out?
It's the accuracy that is a big piece.
I've got one that I want to showyou.
Now. This is only the go round.
So 323, I say only four days, four days, 300 head horses.
This charts the accuracy rate, how accurate they are at the

(55:49):
maneuver level across the runs and compares it to the plus half
and plus one rate. So how many maneuvers were
getting plus half and plus one scores relative to the accuracy
across the go round. And these are the four sections.
Accuracy rate is built off the negative of the error and the

(56:11):
errors crossing 0 and maneuver spreads of one point or more.
So when when it says it's 58% accurate, when it says it's 58%
accurate, it was 42% error, justa simple which or 42% of the

(56:31):
runs had errors in it, which means it either had maneuvers
across 0 or it had maneuvers of one point or more beyond it.
And it's relative to maneuvers being marked between plus half
and plus one because that is thegreen line is plus half to +1

(56:52):
and the blue line is the accuracy rate.
So that's what this is looking at across the go round, which
the Section 3 is where they separated those two functions a
little bit. But yeah, yeah, the accuracy
rate is like I said, it's, it's the bottom line is no matter no

(57:12):
matter how good, how good or howpoor the run itself may be,
there is there is confusion. I mean, if one person sees it as
good and one person sees it as poor, there's an issue.
And if one person sees it as correct and one person says it
is very good, there was. An issue that is correct.

(57:33):
This is the almost same thing. This is plotting.
This is to go around again, 4 sections to go around and it
plots the score spreads comparedto the accuracy rate and watches
them move and they move in direct correlation, but with the
same distance between them across the entire go round.
So there's a positive and a negative in that, which is
exactly what you're talking about.
The good news is they were very consistent.

(57:55):
The bad news is accuracy becauseat the maneuver level, which is
quality determination, quality determination is what our
industry is having a hard time with.
That's the bottom line to the whole story because the accuracy
score spread is in the blue line, which is the top, accuracy
is on the bottom. So how accurate were they in the
go around? 62% in the first section, 61.2%

(58:18):
in the fourth section. They're right in there across
those 4 sections. So that's exactly what they're
doing where the consistency is high, the chore is very
demanding and we know that that's.
What we got, those are great numbers, they are.
And the consistency from event to event is what's I find

(58:38):
interesting so. Right.
And I agree with you. I'm going to show it to you.
This is the accuracy rate, this is showing you the high score
and this is all four sections ofthe go round and the 2 finals.
So it gives you the high score of that section and then it
gives you the accuracy rate, which I just showed you in that

(58:59):
graph compared to the score spreads.
But then it also gives you non unanimous penalties.
And this is one of my pet peeves.
I'm more so because per section this is true.
About 10 to 12% of all runs in the top end of our sport are
getting penalties. So penalties are not separating

(59:20):
it out. But when they do show up, 3/4 of
those penalties are non unanimous which means they're
not being reviewed. Which means more two or more
judges apply a penalty but not all 5 apply it.
And that's those half point and one point deviations.
Because a penalty is deemed to have happened by only a portion

(59:42):
of the officiating team and not by all of them.
So non unanimous penalty is thatscenario, which is 3/4 of
penalties happening. The good news is 10 to 12% of
all runs have penalties. The bad news is 3/4 of those
penalties are not unanimous. So they're not reviewing them
and they're not coming clean. And this shows you that across

(01:00:03):
the entire open Derby. So when you go look at your
cards or you're talking about I missed the finals by half a
point, there's more in there so you have to go look.
Look at that. And we need to make note to
everybody that when you look at cards, the peer majority is not
always correct. There are sometimes the minority

(01:00:26):
is correct and you have to trulydo an analysis on it.
I'm not picking. It's just a fact, correct?
That happened many, many times and both both from a monitor
standpoint and in that group environment and good judges will
look at that the next morning and go wow yeah right.
It's like oops. So but yeah, that's that is that

(01:00:49):
is that is something that it's always like I said we we'd
always make the joke about that.It's the it's the the guy who is
the guy who was high was did thebest job right?
I mean for your. So everybody says.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
So not always the case, but no, that's that's great.
Great stuff. Yeah, really good.

(01:01:10):
We want to leave and pull it alltogether.
I wish that there was a simple summary.
There's not. Congratulations to Coal price.
Golden coins, Golden Coins Limited that owns this horse.
Spooks got a gun Silver spurs Sire this horse X2O Quarter
Horses owning the dam of this horse.
Congratulations. It's just phenomenal stuff.

(01:01:32):
The summary is, wow, the sport is going, it's rolling, it's off
to a phenomenal start. I hope the year just does
nothing but continues to climb on that and I'm excited to
follow the entire thing all the way through.
And there's other good stuff in the rest of the Western industry
that if you go to cowboyoffice.com, put your

(01:01:54):
e-mail in, join along. We kind of pull in some other
information as the rest of the industry comes along through our
e-mail. But Next up is going to be the
best little Derby, the West in Nampa, ID that happens in May,
and then the NRHA Derby, which is going to be somewhat similar
to what we just saw with the NRBC Derby.
So it's going to be interesting what horses are there and what

(01:02:16):
ones aren't. And the NRHA just announced
150,000 new added money for fouryear olds only in the Derby.
What will that do? We're going to see and we're
chasing 82, 70, eights are getting close, but we're not
there yet. So 82 and a 246 is what we still
want to see. Well, like I can't wait for

(01:02:38):
that. I would leave you with that
would leave you at our viewers with this and just heard the
other day that our our good friend Matt flared.
I had got into a little accidentwith the horse and he's got some
downtime and pretty severe injury, but he's he's
recovering. And Mike, his dad is riding his
30 year olds for him and, and wejust wish him the best and, and
hopefully we, you know, everything, everything works

(01:02:59):
out. He recovers.
Well, I actually told, I actually told Sarah who'd worked
for me, his wife, that probably 20 some odd years ago I was at
the North Central Futurity in Saint Paul.
And I had one, I had two good. I had eight.
I had two futuri horses and I had AI had one really nice horse

(01:03:20):
and 1 not so nice horse. And one of them slipped with me
in the practice pen and I took apretty big Ding on an ankle and
I was lame and wondering whetheror not I could even show.
And my, my good friend Rick Weaver came up and he, he
volunteered to show the good onefor me.
He didn't want to do anything with the other one.

(01:03:42):
So I I told Sarah, I said if Matt needs me to show a good
room for him, just by all means I'm ready.
So just call. Anyway, good recovery to you
Matt and Rick. Thanks a lot.
That was very generous even that20 years ago to offer to ride
that good horse. Thanks to Polly Last, our
sponsor and can't wait for the next show.
Matt, get well soon. We look forward to seeing you

(01:04:03):
get well soon. And indeed, thank you to Polly
Last Global. We look forward to more.
Follow along and until next time, enjoy the ride in the
middle. Today's episode is brought to
you by 40 productions in cooperation with the Consultant
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(01:04:26):
design, social media and media production such as the podcast
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