October 29, 2025 • 26 mins
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In this episode of Creative Crossroads, hosts Catherine and Ellyn discuss their new personal curriculums and the subjects they are passionate about learning. Ellyn delves into her fascination with Frank Lloyd Wright, sharing insights from her visit to his winter camp in Arizona and the new Magnolia Network show, 'The Last Wright.' She also talks about collecting books on Wright's architecture. Catherine, on the other hand, is focused on updating her sexuality course, with a particular emphasis on the topic of consent. This work has led her to explore the evolution of societal concepts around creativity. Both emphasize the importance of personal creative projects and how they shape their artistic outputs. They also reflect on past experiences and how creativity has been a constant thread in their lives. The episode ends with a call to listeners to share their own learning journeys and personal curriculums.
00:00 Introduction and Today's Topic
00:27 Ellyn’s Fascination with Frank Lloyd Wright
01:17 Exploring Frank Lloyd Wright's Legacy
04:38 Catherine's Personal Curriculum on Creativity
08:07 The Evolution of Creativity and Personal Experiences
16:33 Art as a Personal and Political Outlet
21:08 Creative Projects and Future Plans
24:38 Conclusion and Viewer Engagement
Thanks for joining us at Creative Crossroads! Keep creating and we'll see you again soon!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Catherine (00:34):
Hi everybody.
Welcome back to CreativeCrosswords, where Ella and I are
just gonna chat today a littlebit about what's going on with
us and.
What we're learning about thesedays.
And so Ellen, I know we talkedabout for today that maybe we
might talk about our personalcurriculum that we're starting
to develop around what we wannabe learning over the next few
(00:56):
weeks or months.
Do you wanna talk a little bitabout what you're gonna be
learning about?
Ellyn (01:00):
Yes.
Well, you introduced me to thisconcept of a personal curriculum
because I have been obsessingover Frank Lloyd Wright lately.
Um, and there's a littlebackstory.
I mean, I always, always havebeen fascinated by architecture.
My maternal grandfather was anarchitect back at the same time
(01:22):
as Frank Lloyd Wright, and I wasalways intrigued by that.
I probably should have studiedarchitecture at some point in my
life.
I had such a fascination.
It just, never occurred to me.
Even getting into my quilting.
I love buildings.
I often use buildings in myquilting or representations of
buildings, so it's always been abit of a thing for me.
Catherine (01:46):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (01:47):
And when we were in Phoenix, well.
One of the times we were inPhoenix this year, I think it
was when our granddaughter wasborn, we had a free day and we
went up to Esen.
Now Tally Esen is Frank LloydWright's winter camp in
Scottsdale, Arizona, and that'swhere he would bring his
(02:10):
students and they would livethere in these tents and study
under him.
He had a house there and.
They would study architectureand live there for a time and we
got to tour the whole place.
And it was, I mean, it wasincredible architecture.
First of all, it was very FrankLloyd Wright, you know, melted
(02:31):
into the, into the environmentand you could see the mountains
and all the landscape andeverything, it was just so
interesting to learn about howhe taught and, and how these
people lived and a little bitmore about it.
So I started getting reallyinterested then.
And then just a couple weeks agoI noticed on, Magnolia Network
(02:54):
on tv, which we get streaming,there's a new show called The
Last, right.
And it's a show about.
They're building the house thatwas on Frank Lloyd Wright's
table drafting table when hedied.
So it never got built, but hefinished the design for it, and
(03:17):
the woman who bought theproperty where that house was
supposed to be is building itaccording to his specs.
Catherine (03:27):
Oh, cool.
Ellyn (03:27):
Yeah, it's really fascinating and it happens to be
in my hometown where I grew up,which is makes it even more
intriguing.
But it's fun to watch week toweek as they go through the
process.
And of course, building codeshave changed and supplies and
materials have changed andprocesses.
So watching them go through thisprocess has just been.
(03:50):
So fascinating.
So yeah, so Catherine and I wereout the other day.
Catherine said, let's go to halfprice books.
And I found like eight or 10books about Frank Lloyd Wright,
about his life, about hisproperties.
I did not buy them all.
Catherine (04:04):
No you didn't.
Ellyn (04:05):
I was pretty proud of myself, but they're really
interesting and that's my.
Personal curriculum right now asI'm learning about Frank Lloyd
Wright and his architecture andhis buildings.
So there's a lot to learn.
Catherine (04:19):
So as you're learning about it, you're watching that
doc, the reality show.
Right.
And then you're reading somebooks about it and you had the
visit, we'll, we'll call thatvisit as part of like the
introduction
Ellyn (04:29):
Oh, I think
Catherine (04:30):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (04:31):
I mean, I'd love to visit more.
Of his properties.
That's a goal for the future isI have been to Falling Water,
which is in, Pennsylvania.
When I was a kid.
It was a short drive from whereI lived, so I have been there.
We have plans to go to theGuggenheim in New
Catherine (04:49):
Oh, that'd be cool.
Yeah.
Ellyn (04:51):
which he designed.
So that's one goal for thefuture, I'd like to find new
ways to incorporate it into myart.
Catherine (05:00):
Yeah.
Ellyn (05:00):
In my quilting or just my journaling or whatever.
Catherine (05:04):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (05:04):
I, I am noodling on that.
Catherine (05:07):
I look forward to seeing how that evolves for you.
That's gonna be really fun.
Ellyn (05:11):
Yeah.
I think it'll be fun.
So what, what are you, uh, intothese days?
Catherine (05:18):
Well, you told me I couldn't talk about the real
thing.
I'm into, I'm teasing.
Um, for those
Ellyn (05:23):
wanna hear about your, we don't wanna hear about your
dating life every singleepisode.
We're happy for you.
Catherine (05:31):
Okay.
Well, so I like, honestly, Ithink one of the biggest things
that I'm digging into thesedays, on a work side is I'm
revamping my sexuality course.
And so every week, I'm delvinginto a different topic for that
course.
And it's been really interestingto see like where the research
is on these different topicsand.
My focus, like the last threeweeks have been on consent and
(05:54):
like what we know about consentand it's just been really
interesting.
I know not related tocreativity, but it's actually
kind of sparked where I'm goingwith my creativity because I was
thinking about how our languagearound consent has changed over
the past several decades.
But then that got me to thinkingabout like, how has, how we've
talked about creativity changedand how we as a society
(06:17):
conceptualized creativity overthe centuries, because
creativity, like, you know, wesaw.
I don't really know yet, butthat's my question.
And so that's the question Iwant to explore with my
curriculum is like, how hassociety like conceptualized
creativity differently overgenerations?
(06:38):
And like, I think if we lookhistorically, my, my, my
assumption is like, my initialthought is that it's probably
has was very.
It was oriented more probablyaround men or at least the
history that we have probablyhas been.
Whereas, and then it became thisthing for the elite, for those
who had time to be creative.
(07:00):
And as society shifted andchanged, I'm thinking that we're
seeing it.
We're seeing more women likebeing involved in creativity,
but we're also seeing likeacknowledgement that women's
work is art and not justcreative.
I hope that's what I'm gonnafind.
I don't know.
So I pulled a couple of piecesof academic literature this
morning about like where we'vebeen and where we're going in
(07:24):
terms of like how we talk aboutcreativity.
I haven't read them yet, but Ipulled them so.
Next time we talk, I'll give myaccountability for that.
So that's, I think that's gonnabe the main focus of my
curriculum for this spring, orfor this fall, is I'm gonna,
there's the sexuality side ofthings because that's work and
that's where my brain focuses alot.
(07:44):
But then the history ofcreativity and how we've
conceptualized it, I think it'llbe really interesting to look
at.
Ellyn (07:50):
Oh, absolutely.
Developing a new curriculumthat's absolutely creative,
Catherine (07:55):
It has been, and it's been so much fun because like I,
I threw, I literally threw outthe textbook, let's not do that
anymore.
And so it started from scratch.
It was like, what do we need toknow about these topics?
And it's just, it's been a lotof creativity and a lot of like,
how can we talk about this in away that's not the same thing
that we've talked about it 50times before.
(08:17):
Especially because it's agraduate level class, having it
be helping them to think on ahigher level about it has been,
it's pushed my creativity andI'm enjoying that part of it.
Ellyn (08:27):
That's exciting.
You're using that side of yourbrain to work on a college level
curriculum.
I mean, I think
Catherine (08:32):
Yeah.
Ellyn (08:33):
that's very cool.
And the research on creativity.
I'm anxious to hear how thatgoes and how it manifests in
your own creative work.
Catherine (08:41):
Yeah, I think that'll be interesting too and just,
I've been working on like apersonal timeline for the past
six months or so, like of justmy life and like things in my
life.
And it's interesting to thinkabout throughout my life, all of
the different exposure that I'vehad to different creative
outlets and like the differenttypes of lessons I took as a kid
(09:03):
and then as an adult.
The different areas I've, I've,anyways, there's a creative line
now, like what was my, what wasmy creative outlet or output or
my learning in withincreativity?
There's now a line within thattimeline about that, so it'll be
interesting to see how thatoverlaps with
Ellyn (09:22):
see a lot of connection between what you did as a kid
and how it has worked itself outas an adult?
Catherine (09:31):
I think what I see like as the shift between kid
and adult is as a kid I wasexploring the creative outlets
that my parents wanted me toexplore, and not in a bad way,
but like they directed me moretowards the music world.
And I loved music, but I was nottalented in music.
We tried, like, I had pianolessons and violin lessons and
(09:53):
flute lessons and voice lessons.
Like there was like veryconcerted effort for Catherine
to be musical and I wasn't.
And I, I never really was.
And I liked to sing, but I'mnot.
Particularly good at any of it.
It's just not where my talent isand not where my passion is.
And, um, but what I think I'veseen more is as an adult, like I
(10:14):
went into something that was asafe, creative outlet, which was
quilting and it was somethingthat was comfortable and I was
familiar with it and it wassafe.
And then especially over thepast few years, I've gotten into
a whole bunch of other thingsthat I thought were not.
Mediums or types of creativitythat were anything that I was
able to do and yeah.
(10:36):
And I think,
Ellyn (10:36):
how, how people in our childhood have such an impact.
I had a situation where early inelementary school, I had an art
teacher tell me I didn't have acreative bone in my body.
Catherine (10:48):
oh my gosh,
Ellyn (10:50):
So
Catherine (10:50):
should be fired.
Ellyn (10:52):
well, I mean, he was considerably older than me, so,
you know, I don't know where heis today, but, it stifled my
visual arts creativity.
I, too was very creative inmusic and I actually connected
with music and,
Catherine (11:08):
Yeah.
You're very talented with it.
Ellyn (11:10):
And I, I don't really use it today, but I.
As a child, that was a greatcreative outlet for me,
Catherine (11:16):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (11:17):
I kind of did my sewing and my scrapbooking and those
things quietly at home bymyself, like, because he said I
wasn't good at it.
So I didn't feel like it wassomething I could share with the
world.
It was just, I mean, it wasalways something I loved.
Catherine (11:33):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (11:34):
But it was private.
'cause I di I felt like I had tohide, you know?
And it
Catherine (11:40):
It wasn't good enough.
It wasn't worthy to be seen byothers.
Ellyn (11:44):
And it wasn't until well into adulthood that I was like,
oh, wait a minute.
here's the deal.
He wanted us to paint a bowl offruit.
Here's the bowl of fruit, youknow, typical art class.
And you know how I.
Operate.
Mine didn't look much like his.
Catherine (12:01):
No.
No.
Ellyn (12:02):
was it because I wasn't good at it or because I just
took a different spin like I doand you know, I'll never know.
I, I don't have my picture fromback then.
Catherine (12:12):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (12:12):
But he wanted realistic bowl of fruit just like mine.
Catherine (12:18):
Yeah.
Ellyn (12:19):
And, I wasn't able to give him that or didn't choose
to.
Catherine (12:22):
Yeah.
I, I had a, I had a middleschool art teacher and I was so
excited to take art and like totake it from him, I had looked
forward to this class I thinklike the first half of the
semester was really focused onvery like literal drawings I
understand as part of like, ifdrawing is your focus, like that
(12:42):
it's important.
It can be important to know howto do those things.
But I remember specifically likea project where we were doing
perspective and I just like, Idid not get it and it wasn't
something that I was enjoyingand I was just like, this is not
for me, obviously I'm not goodat this.
I'm not good at drawing.
And like that was the scriptthat I had in my head for many
years.
And then.
(13:03):
As you and I started to explorewatercolor and other painting, I
began to think like I don't haveto be good at drawing an apple
to be good at painting.
Like those are two differentskills and I can paint things
that don't look like anything,but still enjoy painting them.
Ellyn (13:19):
and who gets to decide if you're good at painting, you do.
Catherine (13:23):
do.
I do.
Yeah, exactly.
Ellyn (13:26):
And that's so cool.
And that's what's cool aboutthis personal curriculum thing,
DEC we get to decide, you know,at this point in our lives,
gosh, for so many years, you goto school and you learn whatever
they shove down your throat.
Whatever they decide isimportant for you to know
Catherine (13:41):
Right.
Yeah.
Ellyn (13:42):
learn.
But now we get to choose.
Catherine (13:45):
I know, and I really, I like this idea that like we
get to choose what we wannafocus on and then how we're
gonna do it.
Like you're gonna read somebooks, I'm gonna read some
articles.
I'll probably read a couple of,I've read a few books on
creativity.
I'll probably find a couplemore.
But like in the end, I wannacreate like a timeline for
myself.
Like that's what I wanna have atthe end is like, how has
creativity evolved?
(14:05):
But like we each get to decidewhat that output's gonna be.
We don't have to write a paper.
Ellyn (14:11):
Right.
Well, I think the interviewswe're doing are part of
Catherine (14:14):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ellyn (14:17):
each guest that we talk to, I learn so much about their
creativity, it gives me thingsto think about.
So
Catherine (14:24):
Oh yes, I would agree.
And our interview with Lukerecently was just, Ugh, that
blew my mind.
Ellyn (14:30):
you'll get to hear that next week.
Catherine (14:32):
Yeah.
Ellyn (14:32):
So I look forward to that
Catherine (14:34):
By the time they wait, when will this air?
It'll air on Friday.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So you guys will get to hear itin a couple days after this
comes
Ellyn (14:42):
but you've already heard us talk to, my friend Kathy
about her weaving and just awhole different spin, if you
will, on creativity.
I mean, just really lots ofthings to think about.
So if you're new here.
Check back to last year.
We're not on YouTube last year.
You'll have to go to yourpodcast apps.
You can listen to the interviewswe did last year and there's
(15:04):
some really interesting guestsand interesting things to hear
there too.
They're all still there andstill relevant.
Catherine (15:12):
Yes.
Oh, absolutely.
No, I feel like we learned a lotabout, I wanna go back and
listen to those episodes again,because I feel like we really
did learn a lot about differentaspects of creativity and how
different people approached thesharing of their creativity.
And just like the mindset aroundbeing creative
Ellyn (15:30):
I agree with you.
Catherine (15:31):
yeah, was really interesting.
It got me thinking outside mybox.
Ellyn (15:35):
Absolutely.
Oh, it's given me so much.
I mean, and we feed off of eachother.
You and I give each other thingsto think about too.
Catherine (15:42):
Absolutely.
Ellyn (15:43):
That's, I mean, I'm not a college professor, but I've got
a few extra years of life onyou.
So
Catherine (15:48):
You know what?
Honestly, like all that shows isthat I'm really good at school.
That's all it shows.
Ellyn (15:56):
good for you.
Catherine (15:57):
good at following other people's procedures, like
that's what that is.
Ellyn (16:01):
I admire that.
And I was thinking too, with mehaving a few extra years, I
mean, I can think back to beingcreative in the early 1960s
Catherine (16:10):
Yeah.
Ellyn (16:11):
and I can kind of see how creativity and art with women
has evolved.
I mean, what I can see in mypersonal life, I think it'll be
fascinating to see what youlearn
Catherine (16:22):
It was interesting as I was working on like the
timeline for the stuff for myclass, I kept thinking about how
does this play into it?
How does this play into it?
What prompted that legislation?
And then, you know, like, and Ithink I can see myself going
down the same line of thinkingwith the creativity piece.
It'll be interesting.
It was, as I started to look atthe different layers within that
timeline, I was like, thesethings really are so
(16:44):
interrelated and like how wechanged conversations as.
A society was often prompted by,um, by like some sort of shift
or movement within anotheraspect of society.
And so I think it'll beinteresting to see how that
layers in with creativity aswell.
Ellyn (17:04):
Yeah, and how can we continue those conversations?
Catherine (17:07):
Yeah.
And I think, I don't know, Ithink in times like this right
now, where it feels like it'sdifficult to be in this world,
having creative outlets andbeing able to express our
creativity can help us feel likewe have a, A safe place.
Ellyn (17:20):
Mm-hmm.
A safe place and a voice,
Catherine (17:23):
Yeah.
Yes.
Absolutely.
A voice.
Yeah.
'cause it feels, feels hardright though.
Ellyn (17:29):
It does sometimes, but I think finding joy in the things
you create and whether,whichever direction you choose
to take that, like some peopleare using this as an opportunity
to be very outspoken andpolitical through their art.
Catherine (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (17:44):
Um, others.
Catherine (17:45):
Which is, which is really neat to see.
Like, I love seeing peopletaking that, like using their
art to give them voice in that
Ellyn (17:53):
I like that too.
I like that too.
But myself personally, I don'tknow.
I mean, look behind me and myart is kind of all sunshine and
bright colors and, and I'm like,well, that's where I find joy.
So I'm going to continue to findjoy and help others find joy.
Catherine (18:12):
Yeah,
Ellyn (18:13):
but you know, however we choose to address it.
I think art is such a crucialpart of, of who
Catherine (18:19):
I would agree with that.
Yeah.
I think about the project that Idid a few years ago with my
quilt.
It was a very expressive quilt,right?
Like, but I think because forme, in part, it was a way for me
to process and react to somethings that I was going through
in therapy and like, and Ineeded.
Outlet at that time.
(18:41):
But it's funny because I hadkind of planned this whole
series of quilts to go alongwith it, and it was like, no, I
don't need those anymore.
And it's okay.
Like that's, that's okay becausethat outlet served an important
purpose at that moment for me.
I don't need that in the sameway now.
So yeah, I
Ellyn (18:57):
Yeah, that's true.
Catherine (18:58):
Our art and our creativity, we express it in
ways that we need to at thattime.
Ellyn (19:05):
I think I never understood early on that my art
could tell part of my story.
Catherine (19:12):
Yes.
Ellyn (19:12):
that's something that came, I, I think during the
pandemic was the first time Ireally started telling stories
through some of my quilts.
Catherine (19:21):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (19:23):
and I was like, oh, look at that.
'cause I would take classes andthe teacher would say, well,
tell a story with your quilt.
And I'm like.
I've got nothing.
Yeah.
Catherine (19:33):
like it's
Ellyn (19:34):
I like these colors and they work together.
Yeah.
And that's not what they werelooking for.
And, and I had to come to thatrealization on my own.
But I think, you know, duringthe pandemic, I had several
quilts that spoke to issuesduring that
Catherine (19:47):
You did.
Ellyn (19:48):
since then I've, I've used my stories even more in my
quilts and I
Catherine (19:54):
Mm-hmm.
I like, I've enjoyed seeing thatdevelopment of your voice and
your stories into your, intoyour quilts.
It's been really fun to seethat.
Yeah.
I think
Ellyn (20:05):
fun to do.
Catherine (20:07):
I've seen it for me in like my journaling, I.
I was never a big journaleruntil I started therapy a few
years ago, and then I started,and then I just needed a place
to put all the thoughts, right?
And they weren't pretty, but Ijust needed a place to put them.
So I started putting them injournals and then.
I, I don't know.
There was this moment where Iwas like, why does it all have
to be words?
(20:27):
Like, why does everything haveto be words and why does it have
to be written in lines?
Like maybe it's just like fivewords on a page and they're just
really emphasized or whatever.
And I know a lot of people shareart journals online, and I will
probably never share any pagesof mine online because they're
not, they're not pretty andthey're not.
(20:47):
It's not aesthetic, but it'swhat I needed to express what I
was feeling at the time.
And I think that it became areally powerful source of
creativity for me, like thepersonal creativity to express
and to work through feelings.
So yeah, it was a whole new wayfor me to think about
journaling, um, not just a logof what I did for the day.
(21:09):
So,
Ellyn (21:09):
That's really cool and my mine are mostly art journals and
they rarely reflect what's goingon in my personal life.
Catherine (21:18):
Mm.
Ellyn (21:18):
Often minor.
It's a quote that grabbed me,that someone, something someone
put out there online orsomething I heard or read in a
book and you know, and then artevolving around that quote.
More often that's where I tendto go.
Catherine (21:34):
And I think like it's, it's different for each of
us.
It serves a different purposefor everyone.
Yeah.
Ellyn (21:38):
Yeah.
And that's exciting.
Catherine (21:40):
It's fun.
Ellyn (21:41):
Okay.
Well, what are you lookingforward to this week?
Catherine (21:45):
what am I looking forward to this week?
I am going to finish.
I've been painting the cover ofa journal.
I'm gonna finish painting that.
Ellyn (21:52):
cool.
Catherine (21:53):
so yeah, I'm gonna finish painting that.
Creativity wise, that's my plan.
Ellyn (21:58):
That's a good plan.
Catherine (21:59):
I have a hot date for the weekend.
But we won't talk about that.
Ellyn (22:04):
You can mention it.
It's fine.
It's
Catherine (22:08):
about you?
Ellyn (22:09):
you know what, I've also been decorating the cover of a
journal and, uh, I didn't bringit thing to bring it in the room
to show it to you, but I'vebeen, uh, using like some gel
prints and tearing them up andusing pieces of'em
Catherine (22:21):
Oh, fine.
Ellyn (22:22):
collage on the cover of a journal that I intend to use for
Fodder school coming up.
That'll be
Catherine (22:27):
Oh, cool.
Ellyn (22:28):
my Fodder School journal.
Catherine (22:30):
Awesome.
What type of, did you get like aspecific type of paper for it or
are you just doing like aregular paper journal.
Ellyn (22:36):
It's like a mixed media paper I think in the journal.
Um, it's a journal that I hadlast Christmas.
The word got out that I wasinterested in art journaling,
and I think I got about six.
Art journals, gifts from peopleincluding you?
Maybe,
Catherine (22:52):
Yes,
Ellyn (22:52):
One of them came from you.
So it was one that I alreadyhad, and I can't honestly
remember who this one came from,but it, I already had it and I'm
like, this is gonna work.
And uh, yeah, it's a thickerpaper.
It's not watercolor paper, so Iwanna say more of a mixed media
paper.
So it'll, it'll take some paint.
I've already tested that out.
(23:13):
It'll take some paint
Catherine (23:15):
Excellent.
Ellyn (23:16):
Without bleeding and all of that.
So yeah, I think it'll be great.
We'll share more of that as wego along too.
Catherine (23:22):
Are you doing like a specific color palette for
Fodder School?
Ellyn (23:26):
I, yeah, I am working out a color palette and I, I need to
make that page with colors somany people I watch with the
junk journaling and artjournaling are using kind of the
antique and subdued colors andit just isn't
Catherine (23:39):
That's just not you.
Ellyn (23:41):
It'll be a bright palette.
It'll be my usual probably.
Catherine (23:45):
I love that.
Ellyn (23:46):
What about
Catherine (23:46):
been thinking, I have never done that before with,
with Fodder school.
'cause I've always just,whatever I'm in the mood for,
that's what I do.
Um, so I don't know.
I might try it with the caveatthat I very likely will change
my mind at some point throughthe process, but it would be,
Ellyn (24:06):
Yeah, pretty much everything I do.
It's with that caveat.
Catherine (24:09):
That's true.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
But it would be nice to be ableto like just have like the right
colors out and just kinda havemy fodder school colors that I
don't have to figure outsomething new every time.
So I don't
Ellyn (24:23):
It just takes one thing out of the decision process.
Catherine (24:26):
Yeah, what Luke said, like that we need to build our
own box.
Ellyn (24:31):
Don't give it all away.
Catherine (24:33):
I know, but now maybe they'll listen to it'cause it's
so good.
Ellyn (24:36):
It is so good.
But yeah, he did talk aboutboxes and I've always felt that,
I mean, we need parameters.
I can't create, I mean, I'm aimprov quilter generally, and,
but that doesn't mean I justgrab things out of a box and
start sewing'em together.
I always have some kind ofguidelines.
Catherine (24:53):
I am gonna be honest.
It was kind of a, it was a, itwas a light bulb moment for me
and it was like, oh my gosh,this makes so much sense.
I need to give myself moreparameters because I'll
frequently sit down and I haveso many possibilities.
I don't do anything.
And so a, DD for the win,
Ellyn (25:09):
That can happen.
Very cool.
All right, well I hope we've,given you all something to think
about.
I mean, this is what's going onin our brains right now.
Catherine (25:19):
But maybe you guys will comment.
Tell us about your personalcurriculum.
What are you doing, like, whatare you learning about these
days?
And it doesn't have to beanything formal.
You're, we're definitely notdoing anything.
I mean, we're, we're exploringthings that we're interested in
and
Ellyn (25:34):
I am.
I'm not going back for anarchitecture degree.
I can tell you that
Catherine (25:38):
I'm not gonna get a degree in creativity.
Yeah.
Ellyn (25:42):
It's just for us, it's
Catherine (25:44):
Yep.
Just for fun stuff.
Yep.
Ellyn (25:46):
There you
Catherine (25:46):
All right, well thanks you guys so much for
joining us.
Oh, I'll let you say it.
Ellyn (25:53):
Thanks for coming and I hope you'll join us again on
Creative Crossroads.
Take care.
Catherine (25:58):
Thanks everybody.
Bye.
Hi everybody.
Welcome back to CreativeCrosswords, where Ella and I are
just gonna chat today a littlebit about what's going on with
us and.
What we're learning about thesedays.
And so Ellen, I know we talkedabout for today that maybe we
might talk about our personalcurriculum that we're starting
to develop around what we wannabe learning over the next few
(00:56):
weeks or months.
Do you wanna talk a little bitabout what you're gonna be
learning about?
Ellyn (01:00):
Yes.
Well, you introduced me to thisconcept of a personal curriculum
because I have been obsessingover Frank Lloyd Wright lately.
Um, and there's a littlebackstory.
I mean, I always, always havebeen fascinated by architecture.
My maternal grandfather was anarchitect back at the same time
(01:22):
as Frank Lloyd Wright, and I wasalways intrigued by that.
I probably should have studiedarchitecture at some point in my
life.
I had such a fascination.
It just, never occurred to me.
Even getting into my quilting.
I love buildings.
I often use buildings in myquilting or representations of
buildings, so it's always been abit of a thing for me.
Catherine (01:46):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (01:47):
And when we were in Phoenix, well.
One of the times we were inPhoenix this year, I think it
was when our granddaughter wasborn, we had a free day and we
went up to Esen.
Now Tally Esen is Frank LloydWright's winter camp in
Scottsdale, Arizona, and that'swhere he would bring his
(02:10):
students and they would livethere in these tents and study
under him.
He had a house there and.
They would study architectureand live there for a time and we
got to tour the whole place.
And it was, I mean, it wasincredible architecture.
First of all, it was very FrankLloyd Wright, you know, melted
(02:31):
into the, into the environmentand you could see the mountains
and all the landscape andeverything, it was just so
interesting to learn about howhe taught and, and how these
people lived and a little bitmore about it.
So I started getting reallyinterested then.
And then just a couple weeks agoI noticed on, Magnolia Network
(02:54):
on tv, which we get streaming,there's a new show called The
Last, right.
And it's a show about.
They're building the house thatwas on Frank Lloyd Wright's
table drafting table when hedied.
So it never got built, but hefinished the design for it, and
(03:17):
the woman who bought theproperty where that house was
supposed to be is building itaccording to his specs.
Catherine (03:27):
Oh, cool.
Ellyn (03:27):
Yeah, it's really fascinating and it happens to be
in my hometown where I grew up,which is makes it even more
intriguing.
But it's fun to watch week toweek as they go through the
process.
And of course, building codeshave changed and supplies and
materials have changed andprocesses.
So watching them go through thisprocess has just been.
(03:50):
So fascinating.
So yeah, so Catherine and I wereout the other day.
Catherine said, let's go to halfprice books.
And I found like eight or 10books about Frank Lloyd Wright,
about his life, about hisproperties.
I did not buy them all.
Catherine (04:04):
No you didn't.
Ellyn (04:05):
I was pretty proud of myself, but they're really
interesting and that's my.
Personal curriculum right now asI'm learning about Frank Lloyd
Wright and his architecture andhis buildings.
So there's a lot to learn.
Catherine (04:19):
So as you're learning about it, you're watching that
doc, the reality show.
Right.
And then you're reading somebooks about it and you had the
visit, we'll, we'll call thatvisit as part of like the
introduction
Ellyn (04:29):
Oh, I think
Catherine (04:30):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (04:31):
I mean, I'd love to visit more.
Of his properties.
That's a goal for the future isI have been to Falling Water,
which is in, Pennsylvania.
When I was a kid.
It was a short drive from whereI lived, so I have been there.
We have plans to go to theGuggenheim in New
Catherine (04:49):
Oh, that'd be cool.
Yeah.
Ellyn (04:51):
which he designed.
So that's one goal for thefuture, I'd like to find new
ways to incorporate it into myart.
Catherine (05:00):
Yeah.
Ellyn (05:00):
In my quilting or just my journaling or whatever.
Catherine (05:04):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (05:04):
I, I am noodling on that.
Catherine (05:07):
I look forward to seeing how that evolves for you.
That's gonna be really fun.
Ellyn (05:11):
Yeah.
I think it'll be fun.
So what, what are you, uh, intothese days?
Catherine (05:18):
Well, you told me I couldn't talk about the real
thing.
I'm into, I'm teasing.
Um, for those
Ellyn (05:23):
wanna hear about your, we don't wanna hear about your
dating life every singleepisode.
We're happy for you.
Catherine (05:31):
Okay.
Well, so I like, honestly, Ithink one of the biggest things
that I'm digging into thesedays, on a work side is I'm
revamping my sexuality course.
And so every week, I'm delvinginto a different topic for that
course.
And it's been really interestingto see like where the research
is on these different topicsand.
My focus, like the last threeweeks have been on consent and
(05:54):
like what we know about consentand it's just been really
interesting.
I know not related tocreativity, but it's actually
kind of sparked where I'm goingwith my creativity because I was
thinking about how our languagearound consent has changed over
the past several decades.
But then that got me to thinkingabout like, how has, how we've
talked about creativity changedand how we as a society
(06:17):
conceptualized creativity overthe centuries, because
creativity, like, you know, wesaw.
I don't really know yet, butthat's my question.
And so that's the question Iwant to explore with my
curriculum is like, how hassociety like conceptualized
creativity differently overgenerations?
(06:38):
And like, I think if we lookhistorically, my, my, my
assumption is like, my initialthought is that it's probably
has was very.
It was oriented more probablyaround men or at least the
history that we have probablyhas been.
Whereas, and then it became thisthing for the elite, for those
who had time to be creative.
(07:00):
And as society shifted andchanged, I'm thinking that we're
seeing it.
We're seeing more women likebeing involved in creativity,
but we're also seeing likeacknowledgement that women's
work is art and not justcreative.
I hope that's what I'm gonnafind.
I don't know.
So I pulled a couple of piecesof academic literature this
morning about like where we'vebeen and where we're going in
(07:24):
terms of like how we talk aboutcreativity.
I haven't read them yet, but Ipulled them so.
Next time we talk, I'll give myaccountability for that.
So that's, I think that's gonnabe the main focus of my
curriculum for this spring, orfor this fall, is I'm gonna,
there's the sexuality side ofthings because that's work and
that's where my brain focuses alot.
(07:44):
But then the history ofcreativity and how we've
conceptualized it, I think it'llbe really interesting to look
at.
Ellyn (07:50):
Oh, absolutely.
Developing a new curriculumthat's absolutely creative,
Catherine (07:55):
It has been, and it's been so much fun because like I,
I threw, I literally threw outthe textbook, let's not do that
anymore.
And so it started from scratch.
It was like, what do we need toknow about these topics?
And it's just, it's been a lotof creativity and a lot of like,
how can we talk about this in away that's not the same thing
that we've talked about it 50times before.
(08:17):
Especially because it's agraduate level class, having it
be helping them to think on ahigher level about it has been,
it's pushed my creativity andI'm enjoying that part of it.
Ellyn (08:27):
That's exciting.
You're using that side of yourbrain to work on a college level
curriculum.
I mean, I think
Catherine (08:32):
Yeah.
Ellyn (08:33):
that's very cool.
And the research on creativity.
I'm anxious to hear how thatgoes and how it manifests in
your own creative work.
Catherine (08:41):
Yeah, I think that'll be interesting too and just,
I've been working on like apersonal timeline for the past
six months or so, like of justmy life and like things in my
life.
And it's interesting to thinkabout throughout my life, all of
the different exposure that I'vehad to different creative
outlets and like the differenttypes of lessons I took as a kid
(09:03):
and then as an adult.
The different areas I've, I've,anyways, there's a creative line
now, like what was my, what wasmy creative outlet or output or
my learning in withincreativity?
There's now a line within thattimeline about that, so it'll be
interesting to see how thatoverlaps with
Ellyn (09:22):
see a lot of connection between what you did as a kid
and how it has worked itself outas an adult?
Catherine (09:31):
I think what I see like as the shift between kid
and adult is as a kid I wasexploring the creative outlets
that my parents wanted me toexplore, and not in a bad way,
but like they directed me moretowards the music world.
And I loved music, but I was nottalented in music.
We tried, like, I had pianolessons and violin lessons and
(09:53):
flute lessons and voice lessons.
Like there was like veryconcerted effort for Catherine
to be musical and I wasn't.
And I, I never really was.
And I liked to sing, but I'mnot.
Particularly good at any of it.
It's just not where my talent isand not where my passion is.
And, um, but what I think I'veseen more is as an adult, like I
(10:14):
went into something that was asafe, creative outlet, which was
quilting and it was somethingthat was comfortable and I was
familiar with it and it wassafe.
And then especially over thepast few years, I've gotten into
a whole bunch of other thingsthat I thought were not.
Mediums or types of creativitythat were anything that I was
able to do and yeah.
(10:36):
And I think,
Ellyn (10:36):
how, how people in our childhood have such an impact.
I had a situation where early inelementary school, I had an art
teacher tell me I didn't have acreative bone in my body.
Catherine (10:48):
oh my gosh,
Ellyn (10:50):
So
Catherine (10:50):
should be fired.
Ellyn (10:52):
well, I mean, he was considerably older than me, so,
you know, I don't know where heis today, but, it stifled my
visual arts creativity.
I, too was very creative inmusic and I actually connected
with music and,
Catherine (11:08):
Yeah.
You're very talented with it.
Ellyn (11:10):
And I, I don't really use it today, but I.
As a child, that was a greatcreative outlet for me,
Catherine (11:16):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (11:17):
I kind of did my sewing and my scrapbooking and those
things quietly at home bymyself, like, because he said I
wasn't good at it.
So I didn't feel like it wassomething I could share with the
world.
It was just, I mean, it wasalways something I loved.
Catherine (11:33):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (11:34):
But it was private.
'cause I di I felt like I had tohide, you know?
And it
Catherine (11:40):
It wasn't good enough.
It wasn't worthy to be seen byothers.
Ellyn (11:44):
And it wasn't until well into adulthood that I was like,
oh, wait a minute.
here's the deal.
He wanted us to paint a bowl offruit.
Here's the bowl of fruit, youknow, typical art class.
And you know how I.
Operate.
Mine didn't look much like his.
Catherine (12:01):
No.
No.
Ellyn (12:02):
was it because I wasn't good at it or because I just
took a different spin like I doand you know, I'll never know.
I, I don't have my picture fromback then.
Catherine (12:12):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (12:12):
But he wanted realistic bowl of fruit just like mine.
Catherine (12:18):
Yeah.
Ellyn (12:19):
And, I wasn't able to give him that or didn't choose
to.
Catherine (12:22):
Yeah.
I, I had a, I had a middleschool art teacher and I was so
excited to take art and like totake it from him, I had looked
forward to this class I thinklike the first half of the
semester was really focused onvery like literal drawings I
understand as part of like, ifdrawing is your focus, like that
(12:42):
it's important.
It can be important to know howto do those things.
But I remember specifically likea project where we were doing
perspective and I just like, Idid not get it and it wasn't
something that I was enjoyingand I was just like, this is not
for me, obviously I'm not goodat this.
I'm not good at drawing.
And like that was the scriptthat I had in my head for many
years.
And then.
(13:03):
As you and I started to explorewatercolor and other painting, I
began to think like I don't haveto be good at drawing an apple
to be good at painting.
Like those are two differentskills and I can paint things
that don't look like anything,but still enjoy painting them.
Ellyn (13:19):
and who gets to decide if you're good at painting, you do.
Catherine (13:23):
do.
I do.
Yeah, exactly.
Ellyn (13:26):
And that's so cool.
And that's what's cool aboutthis personal curriculum thing,
DEC we get to decide, you know,at this point in our lives,
gosh, for so many years, you goto school and you learn whatever
they shove down your throat.
Whatever they decide isimportant for you to know
Catherine (13:41):
Right.
Yeah.
Ellyn (13:42):
learn.
But now we get to choose.
Catherine (13:45):
I know, and I really, I like this idea that like we
get to choose what we wannafocus on and then how we're
gonna do it.
Like you're gonna read somebooks, I'm gonna read some
articles.
I'll probably read a couple of,I've read a few books on
creativity.
I'll probably find a couplemore.
But like in the end, I wannacreate like a timeline for
myself.
Like that's what I wanna have atthe end is like, how has
creativity evolved?
(14:05):
But like we each get to decidewhat that output's gonna be.
We don't have to write a paper.
Ellyn (14:11):
Right.
Well, I think the interviewswe're doing are part of
Catherine (14:14):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ellyn (14:17):
each guest that we talk to, I learn so much about their
creativity, it gives me thingsto think about.
So
Catherine (14:24):
Oh yes, I would agree.
And our interview with Lukerecently was just, Ugh, that
blew my mind.
Ellyn (14:30):
you'll get to hear that next week.
Catherine (14:32):
Yeah.
Ellyn (14:32):
So I look forward to that
Catherine (14:34):
By the time they wait, when will this air?
It'll air on Friday.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So you guys will get to hear itin a couple days after this
comes
Ellyn (14:42):
but you've already heard us talk to, my friend Kathy
about her weaving and just awhole different spin, if you
will, on creativity.
I mean, just really lots ofthings to think about.
So if you're new here.
Check back to last year.
We're not on YouTube last year.
You'll have to go to yourpodcast apps.
You can listen to the interviewswe did last year and there's
(15:04):
some really interesting guestsand interesting things to hear
there too.
They're all still there andstill relevant.
Catherine (15:12):
Yes.
Oh, absolutely.
No, I feel like we learned a lotabout, I wanna go back and
listen to those episodes again,because I feel like we really
did learn a lot about differentaspects of creativity and how
different people approached thesharing of their creativity.
And just like the mindset aroundbeing creative
Ellyn (15:30):
I agree with you.
Catherine (15:31):
yeah, was really interesting.
It got me thinking outside mybox.
Ellyn (15:35):
Absolutely.
Oh, it's given me so much.
I mean, and we feed off of eachother.
You and I give each other thingsto think about too.
Catherine (15:42):
Absolutely.
Ellyn (15:43):
That's, I mean, I'm not a college professor, but I've got
a few extra years of life onyou.
So
Catherine (15:48):
You know what?
Honestly, like all that shows isthat I'm really good at school.
That's all it shows.
Ellyn (15:56):
good for you.
Catherine (15:57):
good at following other people's procedures, like
that's what that is.
Ellyn (16:01):
I admire that.
And I was thinking too, with mehaving a few extra years, I
mean, I can think back to beingcreative in the early 1960s
Catherine (16:10):
Yeah.
Ellyn (16:11):
and I can kind of see how creativity and art with women
has evolved.
I mean, what I can see in mypersonal life, I think it'll be
fascinating to see what youlearn
Catherine (16:22):
It was interesting as I was working on like the
timeline for the stuff for myclass, I kept thinking about how
does this play into it?
How does this play into it?
What prompted that legislation?
And then, you know, like, and Ithink I can see myself going
down the same line of thinkingwith the creativity piece.
It'll be interesting.
It was, as I started to look atthe different layers within that
timeline, I was like, thesethings really are so
(16:44):
interrelated and like how wechanged conversations as.
A society was often prompted by,um, by like some sort of shift
or movement within anotheraspect of society.
And so I think it'll beinteresting to see how that
layers in with creativity aswell.
Ellyn (17:04):
Yeah, and how can we continue those conversations?
Catherine (17:07):
Yeah.
And I think, I don't know, Ithink in times like this right
now, where it feels like it'sdifficult to be in this world,
having creative outlets andbeing able to express our
creativity can help us feel likewe have a, A safe place.
Ellyn (17:20):
Mm-hmm.
A safe place and a voice,
Catherine (17:23):
Yeah.
Yes.
Absolutely.
A voice.
Yeah.
'cause it feels, feels hardright though.
Ellyn (17:29):
It does sometimes, but I think finding joy in the things
you create and whether,whichever direction you choose
to take that, like some peopleare using this as an opportunity
to be very outspoken andpolitical through their art.
Catherine (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (17:44):
Um, others.
Catherine (17:45):
Which is, which is really neat to see.
Like, I love seeing peopletaking that, like using their
art to give them voice in that
Ellyn (17:53):
I like that too.
I like that too.
But myself personally, I don'tknow.
I mean, look behind me and myart is kind of all sunshine and
bright colors and, and I'm like,well, that's where I find joy.
So I'm going to continue to findjoy and help others find joy.
Catherine (18:12):
Yeah,
Ellyn (18:13):
but you know, however we choose to address it.
I think art is such a crucialpart of, of who
Catherine (18:19):
I would agree with that.
Yeah.
I think about the project that Idid a few years ago with my
quilt.
It was a very expressive quilt,right?
Like, but I think because forme, in part, it was a way for me
to process and react to somethings that I was going through
in therapy and like, and Ineeded.
Outlet at that time.
(18:41):
But it's funny because I hadkind of planned this whole
series of quilts to go alongwith it, and it was like, no, I
don't need those anymore.
And it's okay.
Like that's, that's okay becausethat outlet served an important
purpose at that moment for me.
I don't need that in the sameway now.
So yeah, I
Ellyn (18:57):
Yeah, that's true.
Catherine (18:58):
Our art and our creativity, we express it in
ways that we need to at thattime.
Ellyn (19:05):
I think I never understood early on that my art
could tell part of my story.
Catherine (19:12):
Yes.
Ellyn (19:12):
that's something that came, I, I think during the
pandemic was the first time Ireally started telling stories
through some of my quilts.
Catherine (19:21):
Mm-hmm.
Ellyn (19:23):
and I was like, oh, look at that.
'cause I would take classes andthe teacher would say, well,
tell a story with your quilt.
And I'm like.
I've got nothing.
Yeah.
Catherine (19:33):
like it's
Ellyn (19:34):
I like these colors and they work together.
Yeah.
And that's not what they werelooking for.
And, and I had to come to thatrealization on my own.
But I think, you know, duringthe pandemic, I had several
quilts that spoke to issuesduring that
Catherine (19:47):
You did.
Ellyn (19:48):
since then I've, I've used my stories even more in my
quilts and I
Catherine (19:54):
Mm-hmm.
I like, I've enjoyed seeing thatdevelopment of your voice and
your stories into your, intoyour quilts.
It's been really fun to seethat.
Yeah.
I think
Ellyn (20:05):
fun to do.
Catherine (20:07):
I've seen it for me in like my journaling, I.
I was never a big journaleruntil I started therapy a few
years ago, and then I started,and then I just needed a place
to put all the thoughts, right?
And they weren't pretty, but Ijust needed a place to put them.
So I started putting them injournals and then.
I, I don't know.
There was this moment where Iwas like, why does it all have
to be words?
(20:27):
Like, why does everything haveto be words and why does it have
to be written in lines?
Like maybe it's just like fivewords on a page and they're just
really emphasized or whatever.
And I know a lot of people shareart journals online, and I will
probably never share any pagesof mine online because they're
not, they're not pretty andthey're not.
(20:47):
It's not aesthetic, but it'swhat I needed to express what I
was feeling at the time.
And I think that it became areally powerful source of
creativity for me, like thepersonal creativity to express
and to work through feelings.
So yeah, it was a whole new wayfor me to think about
journaling, um, not just a logof what I did for the day.
(21:09):
So,
Ellyn (21:09):
That's really cool and my mine are mostly art journals and
they rarely reflect what's goingon in my personal life.
Catherine (21:18):
Mm.
Ellyn (21:18):
Often minor.
It's a quote that grabbed me,that someone, something someone
put out there online orsomething I heard or read in a
book and you know, and then artevolving around that quote.
More often that's where I tendto go.
Catherine (21:34):
And I think like it's, it's different for each of
us.
It serves a different purposefor everyone.
Yeah.
Ellyn (21:38):
Yeah.
And that's exciting.
Catherine (21:40):
It's fun.
Ellyn (21:41):
Okay.
Well, what are you lookingforward to this week?
Catherine (21:45):
what am I looking forward to this week?
I am going to finish.
I've been painting the cover ofa journal.
I'm gonna finish painting that.
Ellyn (21:52):
cool.
Catherine (21:53):
so yeah, I'm gonna finish painting that.
Creativity wise, that's my plan.
Ellyn (21:58):
That's a good plan.
Catherine (21:59):
I have a hot date for the weekend.
But we won't talk about that.
Ellyn (22:04):
You can mention it.
It's fine.
It's
Catherine (22:08):
about you?
Ellyn (22:09):
you know what, I've also been decorating the cover of a
journal and, uh, I didn't bringit thing to bring it in the room
to show it to you, but I'vebeen, uh, using like some gel
prints and tearing them up andusing pieces of'em
Catherine (22:21):
Oh, fine.
Ellyn (22:22):
collage on the cover of a journal that I intend to use for
Fodder school coming up.
That'll be
Catherine (22:27):
Oh, cool.
Ellyn (22:28):
my Fodder School journal.
Catherine (22:30):
Awesome.
What type of, did you get like aspecific type of paper for it or
are you just doing like aregular paper journal.
Ellyn (22:36):
It's like a mixed media paper I think in the journal.
Um, it's a journal that I hadlast Christmas.
The word got out that I wasinterested in art journaling,
and I think I got about six.
Art journals, gifts from peopleincluding you?
Maybe,
Catherine (22:52):
Yes,
Ellyn (22:52):
One of them came from you.
So it was one that I alreadyhad, and I can't honestly
remember who this one came from,but it, I already had it and I'm
like, this is gonna work.
And uh, yeah, it's a thickerpaper.
It's not watercolor paper, so Iwanna say more of a mixed media
paper.
So it'll, it'll take some paint.
I've already tested that out.
(23:13):
It'll take some paint
Catherine (23:15):
Excellent.
Ellyn (23:16):
Without bleeding and all of that.
So yeah, I think it'll be great.
We'll share more of that as wego along too.
Catherine (23:22):
Are you doing like a specific color palette for
Fodder School?
Ellyn (23:26):
I, yeah, I am working out a color palette and I, I need to
make that page with colors somany people I watch with the
junk journaling and artjournaling are using kind of the
antique and subdued colors andit just isn't
Catherine (23:39):
That's just not you.
Ellyn (23:41):
It'll be a bright palette.
It'll be my usual probably.
Catherine (23:45):
I love that.
Ellyn (23:46):
What about
Catherine (23:46):
been thinking, I have never done that before with,
with Fodder school.
'cause I've always just,whatever I'm in the mood for,
that's what I do.
Um, so I don't know.
I might try it with the caveatthat I very likely will change
my mind at some point throughthe process, but it would be,
Ellyn (24:06):
Yeah, pretty much everything I do.
It's with that caveat.
Catherine (24:09):
That's true.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
But it would be nice to be ableto like just have like the right
colors out and just kinda havemy fodder school colors that I
don't have to figure outsomething new every time.
So I don't
Ellyn (24:23):
It just takes one thing out of the decision process.
Catherine (24:26):
Yeah, what Luke said, like that we need to build our
own box.
Ellyn (24:31):
Don't give it all away.
Catherine (24:33):
I know, but now maybe they'll listen to it'cause it's
so good.
Ellyn (24:36):
It is so good.
But yeah, he did talk aboutboxes and I've always felt that,
I mean, we need parameters.
I can't create, I mean, I'm aimprov quilter generally, and,
but that doesn't mean I justgrab things out of a box and
start sewing'em together.
I always have some kind ofguidelines.
Catherine (24:53):
I am gonna be honest.
It was kind of a, it was a, itwas a light bulb moment for me
and it was like, oh my gosh,this makes so much sense.
I need to give myself moreparameters because I'll
frequently sit down and I haveso many possibilities.
I don't do anything.
And so a, DD for the win,
Ellyn (25:09):
That can happen.
Very cool.
All right, well I hope we've,given you all something to think
about.
I mean, this is what's going onin our brains right now.
Catherine (25:19):
But maybe you guys will comment.
Tell us about your personalcurriculum.
What are you doing, like, whatare you learning about these
days?
And it doesn't have to beanything formal.
You're, we're definitely notdoing anything.
I mean, we're, we're exploringthings that we're interested in
and
Ellyn (25:34):
I am.
I'm not going back for anarchitecture degree.
I can tell you that
Catherine (25:38):
I'm not gonna get a degree in creativity.
Yeah.
Ellyn (25:42):
It's just for us, it's
Catherine (25:44):
Yep.
Just for fun stuff.
Yep.
Ellyn (25:46):
There you
Catherine (25:46):
All right, well thanks you guys so much for
joining us.
Oh, I'll let you say it.
Ellyn (25:53):
Thanks for coming and I hope you'll join us again on
Creative Crossroads.
Take care.
Catherine (25:58):
Thanks everybody.
Bye.
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