April 1, 2026 • 26 mins
In this episode of Crime Survivors Speak, host Aswad Thomas sits down with Sommer Alexander, Texas Chapter Coordinator for TimeDone and a Reentry Peer Support Specialist with the Texas Harm Reduction Alliance. Drawing from her own lived experience with victimization, incarceration, and reentry, Sommer shares how gaps in support for survivors can too often become pathways into criminalization—what is known as the victimization to prison pipeline. Sommer reflects on surviving a violent stabbing, navigating homelessness, and witnessing how survivors with records are routinely denied care, compensation, and recognition. She discusses how these failures played out for her partner and for countless Texans—more than nine million people—living with old records that block access to housing, employment, and safety. From record-expungement events to community education and chapter-building, Sommer offers a grounded look at how system-impacted people are organizing to reclaim their futures. Together, Sommer and Aswad explore what real community safety looks like beyond incarceration, why most harm happens between people who know each other, and how trauma care, mediation, and economic stability can prevent violence before it happens.
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(00:01):
Welcome to the CrimeSurvivor Speak Podcast.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Directorof Crime Survivor Speak.
We are a national network, over 200,000crime victims from across the country.
If you haven't already subscribedto stay up to date on the latest
episodes, you can do that on YouTube,Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other
(00:23):
streaming services by clicking onthe link on your screen or going to
the website at www.cssj.org/podcast.
I'm here with another amazingperson that I've been able to
get to know the past few years.
Sommer Alexander, Texas ChapterCoordinator for Time Done and a
(00:43):
reentry peer support specialist withthe Texas Harm Reduction Alliance,
drawn from her own lived experiencewith incarceration and reentry.
Through her advocacy, communityoutreach and record expungement events,
she's helping to transform how Texasunderstands justice, healing, and real
(01:05):
community safety, and she's leading ourTime Done work in the state of Texas.
Sommer,
welcome to the CrimeSurvivors Speak podcast.
Thank you so much.
It's a honor to be here and bea part of this conversation.
I want to dive right in.
Can you share a bit from your experiencethat led you into this work and
(01:26):
how you found yourself coordinatingwith the Texas Chapter of Time Done?
Absolutely.
I spent three years in a carceralsystem within Texas and I came home.
Within a year of me getting out, Ihad to go find housing for myself,
which was a complete challenge, assomebody who is system impacted.
I actually came from aneighborhood that was much worse
(01:48):
than the one I was moving into.
However, it was not conducive withthe changes that I had made in
my life and what we view as safe.
Two months after moving into thatapartment complex, I ended up,
as well as the person that Iwas in a relationship with,
ended up victims of a stabbing.
So for me, that got me intoa position of being unhoused.
(02:08):
I filed for victims compensationand so forth, and I was
denied, denied, denied, right?
And so I realized at that pointthat there was a lot of fractured
parts in our systems and that ishow I fell into the advocacy field.
And so I first became a homelessambassador, where I sat in city
council meetings and things of thatnature, and then I became aware of
(02:28):
some organizations in Austin that werenonprofits fighting for justice reform.
And once I entered into thoseorganizations is when I met
another individual by the nameof Maggie Luna, w ho then in turn
put me in contact with Time Done.
I got into Time Done and I wasinstantly fell in love with
the idea of justice reform.
And I was like, this is me.
This is what's happened to me.
(02:48):
That's the baseline ofhow I got into the work.
It was all organic, itwas all life experience.
And quite frankly, to me, it wasreally ordained by God because
everything perfectly aligned with thecalling after I almost lost my life.
Wow.
Thank you for sharing.
I wanted to point out what you'veelevated, which is your own victimization.
(03:09):
That led to a lot of barriers, right?
Barriers in the state's victimcompensation program, barriers which
resulted in you becoming unhoused andnot getting access to services, and
all of that negative experience ofbeing a survivor led you into advocacy.
This summer, at our Healing andSafety Conference in Atlanta, one of
(03:31):
the highlights for me was the panelthat we had at that conference on
the victimization to prison pipeline,where you spoke powerfully about
your personal experience and theexperience of system impacted folks.
Can you talk a little bit more about howthat plays out in Texas communities, and
(03:52):
what needs to change in how we respondto victimization, so it doesn't turn into
cycles of violence and criminalization?
Absolutely.
The way that I view it is really simple.
In this state, people are notrecognized as victims of anything if
you have a carceral system record.
That is how it goes.
I can tell you that had we hadbeen victims of a crime and not had
(04:15):
a criminal record, this probablywould not be the same conversation.
I would've received help.
I filed for victims compensationand I was told it didn't happen in
my house, it happened in my car,so there was nothing they could do.
I was forced to spend my last bitof savings to get my own vehicle
back from the police department.
We lost everything.
We lost every single thing wehad, and I was left like I told
(04:37):
y'all before on the streets.
Homeless.
I had to go back to selling narcotics.
I also, let me mention, endedup back in my addiction.
And so that's how that wholevicious cycle just started
recycling itself all over again.
Whereas somebody in another side oftown in Austin, right, that's not
system impacted, that doesn't facethese barriers and so forth, they
(04:58):
would not have went through that.
They would've gotten at least$3,000 to $5,000 to relocate.
Their medical bills, therapy, anythingthat they needed over the next several
years of their life would've been takencare of, and they would've been given the
resources they needed in addition to courtadvocacy, which didn't happen in our case.
(05:18):
It was really hard for meto process for a long time.
I was very angry.
I had just gotten connected with mychildren back in my home and they were
again, ripped from me and placed inplaces that they were living before.
I had very bad injuries.
I couldn't use my left hand at thetime 'cause during the stabbing,
it was almost severed off.
So I barely could use my handand it was exposed so much.
(05:40):
Because of me being unhoused,
I had multiple infections that hadcaused it to be reopened again.
So much so that I ended up on thehighest level of antibiotics possible.
I had a huge gash in myback down into my spine.
It had to be changed outwith wrapping every day.
I was left that way on the streets.
it's a bad situation whenyou're formerly incarcerated.
It's bad enough, trying toget a job and get housed.
(06:03):
And when you get housing, you're forced tolive in places not conducive with anything
you've done to make your life better.
I got through it through being a Texaschapter coordinator and being around
other people that were justice impacted.
People had gotten through really hardtimes and found jobs, and I could
see success, in some of the stories,
and so that gave me the fortitudeto go forward, so I was able to
(06:25):
really go through the systems andstart seeing how bad it is in Texas.
Texas is really, really backdatedwithin the court systems.
They are really backed upin reference to expungement,
non-disclosure, things of that nature.
Right.
We don't really have a unifiedframework across the state.
Access to opportunities andresources depends on where
(06:45):
you live, not what you need.
for example, in Travis County or BexterCounty, you might see more openness
to second chances, diversion programs,harm reduction efforts and so forth.
But if you go to some rural areasyou're not gonna get that same inviting
feeling, or open discussion about it.
If you are somebody whose system impacted,the outcome of the court system processes
(07:10):
is gonna be very different, just like thevictim's compensation's very different.
So unfortunate.
Very similar to you in Texas,over 9 million people live with
an old record, many of them weresurvivors who never got support.
Curious from your personal experienceand your professional experience, what
kind of resources or interventionsdo you think could break that cycle
(07:34):
of pain, trauma and incarceration?
Breaking that cycle means we have toreimagine what public safety means.
Safety isn't about howmany people we can lock up.
It's really about how many peoplewe can lift up, to a point where
they can survive and thrive.
We really need to start reimaginingfundamental programming that's built
(07:54):
into our neighborhoods, so that we canbring back the theme of having a village.
Because it really does take a village tobring somebody back from incarceration
or from being a victim of a crime.
First, we need trauma-informedcommunity-based response systems.
When I became a survivor ofthe crime, they have a victim's
(08:15):
compensation in place, right.
Texas Victims compensation.
But there was no compensation of any kind.
We were forced into the streetsbecause we couldn't pay the rent.
We should have had opportunities tomeet with counselors or a case manager.
In fact, we didn't haveany of those things.
It was a complete momentof, what do we do now?
And that's the same thing that happensacross the board in these communities
(08:39):
because we're not facing the real issue.
Second, we need truereentry infrastructure.
we need peer support that reallysupports individuals coming home.
One of the models I've been lookingat as far as reentry goes is a program
designed where, when a person iscoming out of county jail or a state
(09:01):
facility, they are met with their peersupport months before their release,
not when they get out, months before.
Reason being that gives them the chanceto get to know each other, number one,
and for that peer support specialistto really be able to determine
what is really going on, what kindof trauma have they been through?
(09:21):
When they leave here, ifthey do have somewhere to go,
what's that household like?
Is that gonna be triggering to them?
Really take time.
By giving 'em that time, youbuild a very, very strong
relationship with your peer support.
Additionally, what that peer supportperson would be doing while determining
what that person is gonna need,is they would actually be getting
with different organizations thatthat person may need help with.
(09:44):
Let's say that my friend Peter wasgetting out and needed services with
Integral Care, but he also neededto get with TWC 'cause he wants
to work and maybe he needed to getwith Travis County Reentry too.
Well, those three caseworkers theday prior to him getting out, we are
actually going to meet him on a Zoomso he can meet his village before he
comes home, so that he doesn't walkout and feel completely paralyzed by
(10:07):
trying to navigate the world again.
When you come back into theworld, it's almost unnerving
because you're so stimulated.
By having these systems in placeand already connecting people who
are reentering after being in aprison, especially a male prison,
those are very traumatic for men.
And so when they come back and whenthey know that they've got loving
support around them and they alreadyhave that bond built with them, that
(10:30):
is going to ensure and give this persona level of trust that they probably
have not, if ever, experienced.
Really digging deep into bringingthat village close to the youth and
building the foundation of the communityand trust level all over again.
I think we will see a lot ofthings organically change.
(10:52):
When a program like this rollsout, once those systems are in
sync it's gonna be a game changer.
I promise you we'll see recidivism change.
Third, we need policy levelcompassion, automatic record
clearing laws, clean slate policies.
They have got to start going into effect.
There's gotta be somechange here in Texas.
You cannot have 10 million peopleliving with an old record, one in three
(11:13):
people in a room and not really startconsidering that clean slate policy
might be something we need to talk about.
We have got to put people in a positionto where we're able to wipe away
barriers that keep people trappedin a constant mode of survival.
They have a record.
They can't get a job.
If they can get one, it's $7.25 anhour, and then you want them to not
(11:36):
commit a crime to make sure that theyhave somewhere to live to be safe.
I don't understand it.
Even now as a reentryspecialist, I struggle with that.
Getting people housed.
I struggle with getting them in a positionwhere they don't feel like they have to
re-offend to take care of their family.
And so if Texas really wants to reduceincarceration, we're gonna have to
fund healing, not punishment, andwe've got to build networks of care.
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That's the experience of a lot of people.
Often where you live, your zip codedetermines your life experiences
and also your, your life path.
I remember I was ingrad school, years ago.
There was a New York Times articleabout 1.5 million missing black men.
And the majority of those missing blackmen are absent from our families and
(12:22):
our communities, due to early deaths orbecause they were locked up, impacted
by both the victimization, and alsoincarceration with little to no resources
and support to navigate those experiences.
But you've been working to kind ofreally lead and change that in building
out our TimeDone work, in Texas.
I would love for you to talkabout your experience as the Texas
(12:45):
chapter coordinator for Time Done.
What have you seen are like some ofthe strategies that you have used
that helped to engage and empowerchapter members who may have never seen
themselves as part of the movement?
I'm focused on building a coalition,the goal here is to build it from
the ground up, with people that aresystem impacted, people that are
survivors, people that are both.
(13:07):
You can be indirectly system impacted.
Your mom, dad, husband, kids, thosepeople are also affected when a
person goes to a carceral system.
They are truly affected.
They cry, they miss us.
Their lives aren't the same.
They have to pay for everything for ustoo, and that's not really cool, right?
Everybody gets affected.
And so we also have those people asmembers of the coalition as well,
(13:28):
because their voice matters too.
We're identifying leadersin different regions.
We have seven or eight leads.
One in El Paso, two in San Antonio,one in the Rio Grande Valley area.
I have one in Houston.
And then I have two morethat I've added into Austin.
I am looking still to getsomebody in Fort Worth.
From those cities that we'vealready got the leads in.
(13:50):
From there, we'll branch out intothe rural counties, and really
touch down into those areas becausethose are the unheard areas.
We're really gonna be intentional aboutconnecting them with tools, training, and
platforms that teach them how to lead.
By 2027, they can use their voice,tell their story and feel empowered,
and inspire the movement.
The numbers grow by the day.
We have the ability to voteand to put who we want into
(14:16):
office and positions of power.
And so people are finally starting to usetheir voice and use their power to vote.
That's where the real movement starts.
When survivors, reentry advocates andcommunity healers unite to rewrite
this narrative, we then will be ableto combine lived experience with
policy knowledge, and I do believethat when we build this survivor and
(14:37):
system impacted led coalition, we'regoing to show the country what true
people power justice reform looks like.
We have to have people in place thatnot only understand what trauma is, but
they know how to navigate these systems.
And that means you're gonna have totake people that have lived experience,
people that have not just come outof the carceral systems and they got
a job, but people that have reallyendured the struggle, they've went
(14:59):
through all of these systematicbarriers and they've conquered them
because I don't need somebody tellingme how to try and get through something
if you've never gotten through it.
When I educated my team of leads in theTexas chapter, the first thing I did was
let them know, look, across our stateright now we have seven different people.
One thing I can bet each one of youneeds to understand is that whether
(15:21):
you go into your personal city and yougo to the poorest side of town to the
richest, there's going to be a lack ofunderstanding about what is actually
happening and the dynamics of reentry andbeing incarcerated and how that works.
And you're talking about people thatwork for the justice system in the jails,
the reentry programs, and so forth.
It's the lack of communication betweensocial classes and the lack of education
(15:45):
keeping us from moving forward.
And so as the Texas Chapter coordinator,my goal has been to tackle that part
of it, So we rolled out educationon expungement three months ago.
Two months ago I had my firstvirtual expungement clinic, with
a reentry task force in El Paso.
And you've mentioned that a lotof people have records out here.
(16:08):
I think there's an estimated 78million Americans across this country.
That's about what one in three adults,have an old criminal record, right?
Millions of people in Texas have an oldrecord and face barriers, which is why
it's important for you to be not onlyjust educating people across those social
classes, but also uplifting the importanceof coming together in those spaces.
(16:32):
So you mentioned thevirtual event in El Paso.
For folks who are listening and want tolearn more about what happens at this
type of expungement event, can you walkus through what happens at one of those
events and what are some barriers peopleface when trying to get their records
sealed or cleared in the state of Texas?
It's strictly an educational event.
(16:54):
I wanna make that clear.
We don't seal records, butthey are educational pieces.
What's the difference betweennon-disclosure and expungement?
How do these processes work?
Do I qualify for non-disclosure,do I qualify for an expungement?
And the reason we really breakit down, and there's like so many
dynamics to it and we are reallytrying to be very detail oriented
(17:16):
about understanding is because it's aconstant legal moving part in Texas.
You may have the same exact chargeas one person, same exact charge, but
yours doesn't qualify and they do.
So what we try to do at theseevents is get them educated on how
you would go about the process.
Based on the location that we're doingthe event in, I have tried to make it
(17:37):
possible to always have a handout forthat local area because the other huge
component about Texas' expungementis every county does it differently.
Austin might be moreexpensive than Houston.
Austin may not do an expungementclinic the same way that Houston
does an expungement clinic becausethey want their expungement clinic
(18:01):
to go through a certain backgroundcheck as far as the DA's concerned.
So the DA systems have a lot to do withthe way an expungement is approved.
Of course, the judge hasa say in that as well.
One of the questions I first presentedwhen learning about this from the
lawyers at Texas Fair Defense Projectwas, in order to have an actual
expungement clinic or a fair that isactually processing or doing any type
(18:25):
of record repair, they would haveto be approved by the DA's office.
She said those people wouldhave to have submitted their
record into the DA's office.
After they viewed the record, they lookat it, they determine whether they want
to approve that, and if they do, thenthey move it forward in the process.
And if not, they don't.
You could have whatever legalprofessional you want fill out the
(18:47):
expungement paperwork, file it.
But that county that you receivethat conviction in, their DA's
office does not approve it.
You're not getting anon-disclosure or an expungement.
That's it.
They make the decision.
That still leaves so much roomfor like, injustice and prejudice,
within communities especially
think about rural areas.
If you live in a small town and don'tlike you, you might have a problem.
(19:10):
That's not how our justice systemis supposed to be structured.
Wow.
I just learned a lotfrom this, conversation.
In Texas, expungement can removesome entries from adult criminal
history, but it's very limited.
And that's different from non-disclosures,which hides certain records from
public disclosure, but they arestill visible to certain criminal
(19:31):
justice agencies, licensing agencies,and certain government entities.
In Texas, your time is never doneright, which is just remarkable how
you've been able to build Time Donein Texas, how you've been able to
identify and develop leaders, butalso how you are really focusing on
education, which is so important.
But as we kind of wrap up thisconversation, Sommer, we would
(19:54):
love for you to kind of share.
What gives you hope?
What message would you like to leave withour listeners, especially those who may
feel stuck by a conviction or record?
What gives me hope isn'tjust seeing systems change.
it's watching people change.
It's seeing someone whoonce felt invisible.
(20:15):
finally really realize that they matter.
It's watching people come home fromincarceration, broken, scared, not knowing
what they're gonna do, pretty much alreadyin their mind, knowing or feeling like
they know that they're gonna fail again.
you work with them and slowlysee them rebuilding their lives.
That's where my hope comes from.
I'll be honest, this last year, ittested that hope in so many ways.
(20:37):
On August 30th last year, my fiancelost his life in a car accident.
He was more than my fiance.
He was my best friend.
When I lost Sherman, Ihad to not lose hope.
I had to first of all become determinedthat that was not an option because I
know that's not what he would've wanted.
We went through one of the most brutalexperiences a person can survive.
(20:59):
We were both stabbed nearly to deathand we were left fighting for our
lives, and even after surviving allof that, the system failed us again.
We became unhoused.
We were criminalized instead of cared for.
There was no real safety net for victims.
They didn't care about us becausewe were also system impacted.
And so in their eyes, we werejust, you know, couple felons must
(21:22):
have been doing something wrong.
We weren't victims in their eyes.
That lack of compassion and lack oftrue victim support, it's what pushed
both of us back into the very systemsthat should have been helping us heal.
Losing Sherman has been one of thehardest things I've ever lived through.
He wasn't just my partner.
He was part of my purpose.
(21:42):
While God had other plans for him, Ipromised myself that from now until
the day that I go home, I'll carrythat forward for us because he was very
passionate about what he saw coming forme when he came home this time and the
work I was putting in for the community.
You could see a glow in his eyes.
What gives me hope now is legacy, knowingthat through the pain, there's still a
calling on my life to fight for change.
(22:04):
I'm gonna use all of that energy,emotions, feelings of loss and
pain and turn it into purpose.
I'm gonna continue to raise awarenessabout our justice system, how it
impacts not just individuals, butfamilies and generations long term.
I'm gonna make sure that I continueto fight, not just for Sherman.
But for other people thatwe've lost along the way.
(22:25):
To anyone listening, who might feelstuck, because of an old record or
feel like because they grew up acertain way or were only subjected
to certain types of environments,that that narrative can never change,
I wanna challenge you that it can.
Please hear me when I sayyou are not that conviction.
You are worthy, filled withpurpose, and you can do anything
(22:49):
that you put your mind to.
You still have worth, and thereis still life after loss, after
prison, after pain, after all of it.
Every day I, um, I work with womenand men that have faced these systems,
whether it's CPS, or it's the carceralsystems, probation, parole, all
(23:09):
of the different dynamics of it.
They come home, they have the best plan intheir head about how this is gonna work.
And what we have to remember asboth the person going through the
experience and as a person that isindirectly impacted, that is a part
of that person's life, is that thereare gonna be barriers you face, right?
That are really hard and systemically beentaught we won't beat them, but you can.
(23:30):
It's very easy.
You just take one step at a time.
You get a job, save yourmoney, find housing.
If you need housing in Texas,I can help you with that.
Get you a good, strong sustainablestructure in your life and
remember you are not whatthey taught you in the system.
God can take the ugliest storms, andI'm a living testament of that, and he
can turn them into something powerful.
(23:52):
Even when it feels like you've losteverything, keep going because you
never know who's watching your strengthand finding hope in your fight.
You have the power every single daywhen you get up to make another decision
that's going to impact the rest of yourlife and the narrative of the path you
go down, and maybe today you messed upand you made some bad decisions, right?
But tomorrow you can get back up andyou can get back on that right path.
(24:13):
I pushed forward and I found somethingthat felt good and that felt real to me.
And that was justice reform.
And that was being bold enoughto say, I know you screwed me.
I know the system isn't right andI'm gonna do something about it.
I found that passion and I never gaveup and I want to throw in that I did
fail, to whoever listens to this.
I failed, I got back in myaddiction, I got back up.
(24:36):
But if I'd never kept hope andfaith I wouldn't be here today.
And so my hope for you is no matter howmany times you fail, you remember it's
about finding something that you loveand like knowing that whatever your heart
believes in, if it's right, then do it.
If you do them organically and youstay focused away from the extra
stuff we're used to, life will change.
(24:57):
But always remember,you only get one chance.
We're not guaranteed tomorrow.
You may not feel like youhave the education to get a
good job or, be anything otherthan somebody that sells dope.
But you absolutely do.
You don't have to give up becauseyou dropped out of school.
Wow.
Your courage and commitment inspire meand so many people across this country.
(25:19):
Your leadership reminds us, transformationis not only possible, but it's
happening every day in our communities.
You know, thanks to individualslike yourself, you've turned
your story into purpose.
You've helped countlessothers see that redemption and
healing can walk hand in hand.
To everyone listening to today's episode,you wanna learn more about Time Done.
(25:42):
You wanna be part of Time Done in Texas,join Sommer in her fight in Texas.
Go to the website at www.timedone.org.
We'll also make sure you are pluggedin to the amazing work Sommer
is doing in Texas, and that TimeDone is done across the country.
Our work at Time Done has alwaysbeen in good hands and even more
(26:03):
with leaders like you, especially
in a state like Texas.
So thank you for all thatyou've been doing across Texas.
Thank you for your commitmentto our Time Done program.
We're excited for you to continueeducating folks in Texas,
but also building leaders andbuilding power across the state.
Thank you all so much to everyonefor listening to today's episode.
(26:25):
Once again, if you wanna becomea member of Crime Survivor
Speak, go to www.cssj.org.
To join Time Done, go to www.timedone.org.
Tune into all podcast episodes onYouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and other streaming platforms.
Thank you so much for listening today,and we'll talk to you on the next episode.
Welcome to the CrimeSurvivor Speak Podcast.
My name is Aswad Thomas.
I'm the National Directorof Crime Survivor Speak.
We are a national network, over 200,000crime victims from across the country.
If you haven't already subscribedto stay up to date on the latest
episodes, you can do that on YouTube,Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other
(00:23):
streaming services by clicking onthe link on your screen or going to
the website at www.cssj.org/podcast.
I'm here with another amazingperson that I've been able to
get to know the past few years.
Sommer Alexander, Texas ChapterCoordinator for Time Done and a
(00:43):
reentry peer support specialist withthe Texas Harm Reduction Alliance,
drawn from her own lived experiencewith incarceration and reentry.
Through her advocacy, communityoutreach and record expungement events,
she's helping to transform how Texasunderstands justice, healing, and real
(01:05):
community safety, and she's leading ourTime Done work in the state of Texas.
Sommer,
welcome to the CrimeSurvivors Speak podcast.
Thank you so much.
It's a honor to be here and bea part of this conversation.
I want to dive right in.
Can you share a bit from your experiencethat led you into this work and
(01:26):
how you found yourself coordinatingwith the Texas Chapter of Time Done?
Absolutely.
I spent three years in a carceralsystem within Texas and I came home.
Within a year of me getting out, Ihad to go find housing for myself,
which was a complete challenge, assomebody who is system impacted.
I actually came from aneighborhood that was much worse
(01:48):
than the one I was moving into.
However, it was not conducive withthe changes that I had made in
my life and what we view as safe.
Two months after moving into thatapartment complex, I ended up,
as well as the person that Iwas in a relationship with,
ended up victims of a stabbing.
So for me, that got me intoa position of being unhoused.
(02:08):
I filed for victims compensationand so forth, and I was
denied, denied, denied, right?
And so I realized at that pointthat there was a lot of fractured
parts in our systems and that ishow I fell into the advocacy field.
And so I first became a homelessambassador, where I sat in city
council meetings and things of thatnature, and then I became aware of
(02:28):
some organizations in Austin that werenonprofits fighting for justice reform.
And once I entered into thoseorganizations is when I met
another individual by the nameof Maggie Luna, w ho then in turn
put me in contact with Time Done.
I got into Time Done and I wasinstantly fell in love with
the idea of justice reform.
And I was like, this is me.
This is what's happened to me.
(02:48):
That's the baseline ofhow I got into the work.
It was all organic, itwas all life experience.
And quite frankly, to me, it wasreally ordained by God because
everything perfectly aligned with thecalling after I almost lost my life.
Wow.
Thank you for sharing.
I wanted to point out what you'veelevated, which is your own victimization.
(03:09):
That led to a lot of barriers, right?
Barriers in the state's victimcompensation program, barriers which
resulted in you becoming unhoused andnot getting access to services, and
all of that negative experience ofbeing a survivor led you into advocacy.
This summer, at our Healing andSafety Conference in Atlanta, one of
(03:31):
the highlights for me was the panelthat we had at that conference on
the victimization to prison pipeline,where you spoke powerfully about
your personal experience and theexperience of system impacted folks.
Can you talk a little bit more about howthat plays out in Texas communities, and
(03:52):
what needs to change in how we respondto victimization, so it doesn't turn into
cycles of violence and criminalization?
Absolutely.
The way that I view it is really simple.
In this state, people are notrecognized as victims of anything if
you have a carceral system record.
That is how it goes.
I can tell you that had we hadbeen victims of a crime and not had
(04:15):
a criminal record, this probablywould not be the same conversation.
I would've received help.
I filed for victims compensationand I was told it didn't happen in
my house, it happened in my car,so there was nothing they could do.
I was forced to spend my last bitof savings to get my own vehicle
back from the police department.
We lost everything.
We lost every single thing wehad, and I was left like I told
(04:37):
y'all before on the streets.
Homeless.
I had to go back to selling narcotics.
I also, let me mention, endedup back in my addiction.
And so that's how that wholevicious cycle just started
recycling itself all over again.
Whereas somebody in another side oftown in Austin, right, that's not
system impacted, that doesn't facethese barriers and so forth, they
(04:58):
would not have went through that.
They would've gotten at least$3,000 to $5,000 to relocate.
Their medical bills, therapy, anythingthat they needed over the next several
years of their life would've been takencare of, and they would've been given the
resources they needed in addition to courtadvocacy, which didn't happen in our case.
(05:18):
It was really hard for meto process for a long time.
I was very angry.
I had just gotten connected with mychildren back in my home and they were
again, ripped from me and placed inplaces that they were living before.
I had very bad injuries.
I couldn't use my left hand at thetime 'cause during the stabbing,
it was almost severed off.
So I barely could use my handand it was exposed so much.
(05:40):
Because of me being unhoused,
I had multiple infections that hadcaused it to be reopened again.
So much so that I ended up on thehighest level of antibiotics possible.
I had a huge gash in myback down into my spine.
It had to be changed outwith wrapping every day.
I was left that way on the streets.
it's a bad situation whenyou're formerly incarcerated.
It's bad enough, trying toget a job and get housed.
(06:03):
And when you get housing, you're forced tolive in places not conducive with anything
you've done to make your life better.
I got through it through being a Texaschapter coordinator and being around
other people that were justice impacted.
People had gotten through really hardtimes and found jobs, and I could
see success, in some of the stories,
and so that gave me the fortitudeto go forward, so I was able to
(06:25):
really go through the systems andstart seeing how bad it is in Texas.
Texas is really, really backdatedwithin the court systems.
They are really backed upin reference to expungement,
non-disclosure, things of that nature.
Right.
We don't really have a unifiedframework across the state.
Access to opportunities andresources depends on where
(06:45):
you live, not what you need.
for example, in Travis County or BexterCounty, you might see more openness
to second chances, diversion programs,harm reduction efforts and so forth.
But if you go to some rural areasyou're not gonna get that same inviting
feeling, or open discussion about it.
If you are somebody whose system impacted,the outcome of the court system processes
(07:10):
is gonna be very different, just like thevictim's compensation's very different.
So unfortunate.
Very similar to you in Texas,over 9 million people live with
an old record, many of them weresurvivors who never got support.
Curious from your personal experienceand your professional experience, what
kind of resources or interventionsdo you think could break that cycle
(07:34):
of pain, trauma and incarceration?
Breaking that cycle means we have toreimagine what public safety means.
Safety isn't about howmany people we can lock up.
It's really about how many peoplewe can lift up, to a point where
they can survive and thrive.
We really need to start reimaginingfundamental programming that's built
(07:54):
into our neighborhoods, so that we canbring back the theme of having a village.
Because it really does take a village tobring somebody back from incarceration
or from being a victim of a crime.
First, we need trauma-informedcommunity-based response systems.
When I became a survivor ofthe crime, they have a victim's
(08:15):
compensation in place, right.
Texas Victims compensation.
But there was no compensation of any kind.
We were forced into the streetsbecause we couldn't pay the rent.
We should have had opportunities tomeet with counselors or a case manager.
In fact, we didn't haveany of those things.
It was a complete momentof, what do we do now?
And that's the same thing that happensacross the board in these communities
(08:39):
because we're not facing the real issue.
Second, we need truereentry infrastructure.
we need peer support that reallysupports individuals coming home.
One of the models I've been lookingat as far as reentry goes is a program
designed where, when a person iscoming out of county jail or a state
(09:01):
facility, they are met with their peersupport months before their release,
not when they get out, months before.
Reason being that gives them the chanceto get to know each other, number one,
and for that peer support specialistto really be able to determine
what is really going on, what kindof trauma have they been through?
(09:21):
When they leave here, ifthey do have somewhere to go,
what's that household like?
Is that gonna be triggering to them?
Really take time.
By giving 'em that time, youbuild a very, very strong
relationship with your peer support.
Additionally, what that peer supportperson would be doing while determining
what that person is gonna need,is they would actually be getting
with different organizations thatthat person may need help with.
(09:44):
Let's say that my friend Peter wasgetting out and needed services with
Integral Care, but he also neededto get with TWC 'cause he wants
to work and maybe he needed to getwith Travis County Reentry too.
Well, those three caseworkers theday prior to him getting out, we are
actually going to meet him on a Zoomso he can meet his village before he
comes home, so that he doesn't walkout and feel completely paralyzed by
(10:07):
trying to navigate the world again.
When you come back into theworld, it's almost unnerving
because you're so stimulated.
By having these systems in placeand already connecting people who
are reentering after being in aprison, especially a male prison,
those are very traumatic for men.
And so when they come back and whenthey know that they've got loving
support around them and they alreadyhave that bond built with them, that
(10:30):
is going to ensure and give this persona level of trust that they probably
have not, if ever, experienced.
Really digging deep into bringingthat village close to the youth and
building the foundation of the communityand trust level all over again.
I think we will see a lot ofthings organically change.
(10:52):
When a program like this rollsout, once those systems are in
sync it's gonna be a game changer.
I promise you we'll see recidivism change.
Third, we need policy levelcompassion, automatic record
clearing laws, clean slate policies.
They have got to start going into effect.
There's gotta be somechange here in Texas.
You cannot have 10 million peopleliving with an old record, one in three
(11:13):
people in a room and not really startconsidering that clean slate policy
might be something we need to talk about.
We have got to put people in a positionto where we're able to wipe away
barriers that keep people trappedin a constant mode of survival.
They have a record.
They can't get a job.
If they can get one, it's $7.25 anhour, and then you want them to not
(11:36):
commit a crime to make sure that theyhave somewhere to live to be safe.
I don't understand it.
Even now as a reentryspecialist, I struggle with that.
Getting people housed.
I struggle with getting them in a positionwhere they don't feel like they have to
re-offend to take care of their family.
And so if Texas really wants to reduceincarceration, we're gonna have to
fund healing, not punishment, andwe've got to build networks of care.
(11:59):
That's the experience of a lot of people.
Often where you live, your zip codedetermines your life experiences
and also your, your life path.
I remember I was ingrad school, years ago.
There was a New York Times articleabout 1.5 million missing black men.
And the majority of those missing blackmen are absent from our families and
(12:22):
our communities, due to early deaths orbecause they were locked up, impacted
by both the victimization, and alsoincarceration with little to no resources
and support to navigate those experiences.
But you've been working to kind ofreally lead and change that in building
out our TimeDone work, in Texas.
I would love for you to talkabout your experience as the Texas
(12:45):
chapter coordinator for Time Done.
What have you seen are like some ofthe strategies that you have used
that helped to engage and empowerchapter members who may have never seen
themselves as part of the movement?
I'm focused on building a coalition,the goal here is to build it from
the ground up, with people that aresystem impacted, people that are
survivors, people that are both.
(13:07):
You can be indirectly system impacted.
Your mom, dad, husband, kids, thosepeople are also affected when a
person goes to a carceral system.
They are truly affected.
They cry, they miss us.
Their lives aren't the same.
They have to pay for everything for ustoo, and that's not really cool, right?
Everybody gets affected.
And so we also have those people asmembers of the coalition as well,
(13:28):
because their voice matters too.
We're identifying leadersin different regions.
We have seven or eight leads.
One in El Paso, two in San Antonio,one in the Rio Grande Valley area.
I have one in Houston.
And then I have two morethat I've added into Austin.
I am looking still to getsomebody in Fort Worth.
From those cities that we'vealready got the leads in.
(13:50):
From there, we'll branch out intothe rural counties, and really
touch down into those areas becausethose are the unheard areas.
We're really gonna be intentional aboutconnecting them with tools, training, and
platforms that teach them how to lead.
By 2027, they can use their voice,tell their story and feel empowered,
and inspire the movement.
The numbers grow by the day.
We have the ability to voteand to put who we want into
(14:16):
office and positions of power.
And so people are finally starting to usetheir voice and use their power to vote.
That's where the real movement starts.
When survivors, reentry advocates andcommunity healers unite to rewrite
this narrative, we then will be ableto combine lived experience with
policy knowledge, and I do believethat when we build this survivor and
(14:37):
system impacted led coalition, we'regoing to show the country what true
people power justice reform looks like.
We have to have people in place thatnot only understand what trauma is, but
they know how to navigate these systems.
And that means you're gonna have totake people that have lived experience,
people that have not just come outof the carceral systems and they got
a job, but people that have reallyendured the struggle, they've went
(14:59):
through all of these systematicbarriers and they've conquered them
because I don't need somebody tellingme how to try and get through something
if you've never gotten through it.
When I educated my team of leads in theTexas chapter, the first thing I did was
let them know, look, across our stateright now we have seven different people.
One thing I can bet each one of youneeds to understand is that whether
(15:21):
you go into your personal city and yougo to the poorest side of town to the
richest, there's going to be a lack ofunderstanding about what is actually
happening and the dynamics of reentry andbeing incarcerated and how that works.
And you're talking about people thatwork for the justice system in the jails,
the reentry programs, and so forth.
It's the lack of communication betweensocial classes and the lack of education
(15:45):
keeping us from moving forward.
And so as the Texas Chapter coordinator,my goal has been to tackle that part
of it, So we rolled out educationon expungement three months ago.
Two months ago I had my firstvirtual expungement clinic, with
a reentry task force in El Paso.
And you've mentioned that a lotof people have records out here.
(16:08):
I think there's an estimated 78million Americans across this country.
That's about what one in three adults,have an old criminal record, right?
Millions of people in Texas have an oldrecord and face barriers, which is why
it's important for you to be not onlyjust educating people across those social
classes, but also uplifting the importanceof coming together in those spaces.
(16:32):
So you mentioned thevirtual event in El Paso.
For folks who are listening and want tolearn more about what happens at this
type of expungement event, can you walkus through what happens at one of those
events and what are some barriers peopleface when trying to get their records
sealed or cleared in the state of Texas?
It's strictly an educational event.
(16:54):
I wanna make that clear.
We don't seal records, butthey are educational pieces.
What's the difference betweennon-disclosure and expungement?
How do these processes work?
Do I qualify for non-disclosure,do I qualify for an expungement?
And the reason we really breakit down, and there's like so many
dynamics to it and we are reallytrying to be very detail oriented
(17:16):
about understanding is because it's aconstant legal moving part in Texas.
You may have the same exact chargeas one person, same exact charge, but
yours doesn't qualify and they do.
So what we try to do at theseevents is get them educated on how
you would go about the process.
Based on the location that we're doingthe event in, I have tried to make it
(17:37):
possible to always have a handout forthat local area because the other huge
component about Texas' expungementis every county does it differently.
Austin might be moreexpensive than Houston.
Austin may not do an expungementclinic the same way that Houston
does an expungement clinic becausethey want their expungement clinic
(18:01):
to go through a certain backgroundcheck as far as the DA's concerned.
So the DA systems have a lot to do withthe way an expungement is approved.
Of course, the judge hasa say in that as well.
One of the questions I first presentedwhen learning about this from the
lawyers at Texas Fair Defense Projectwas, in order to have an actual
expungement clinic or a fair that isactually processing or doing any type
(18:25):
of record repair, they would haveto be approved by the DA's office.
She said those people wouldhave to have submitted their
record into the DA's office.
After they viewed the record, they lookat it, they determine whether they want
to approve that, and if they do, thenthey move it forward in the process.
And if not, they don't.
You could have whatever legalprofessional you want fill out the
(18:47):
expungement paperwork, file it.
But that county that you receivethat conviction in, their DA's
office does not approve it.
You're not getting anon-disclosure or an expungement.
That's it.
They make the decision.
That still leaves so much roomfor like, injustice and prejudice,
within communities especially
think about rural areas.
If you live in a small town and don'tlike you, you might have a problem.
(19:10):
That's not how our justice systemis supposed to be structured.
Wow.
I just learned a lotfrom this, conversation.
In Texas, expungement can removesome entries from adult criminal
history, but it's very limited.
And that's different from non-disclosures,which hides certain records from
public disclosure, but they arestill visible to certain criminal
(19:31):
justice agencies, licensing agencies,and certain government entities.
In Texas, your time is never doneright, which is just remarkable how
you've been able to build Time Donein Texas, how you've been able to
identify and develop leaders, butalso how you are really focusing on
education, which is so important.
But as we kind of wrap up thisconversation, Sommer, we would
(19:54):
love for you to kind of share.
What gives you hope?
What message would you like to leave withour listeners, especially those who may
feel stuck by a conviction or record?
What gives me hope isn'tjust seeing systems change.
it's watching people change.
It's seeing someone whoonce felt invisible.
(20:15):
finally really realize that they matter.
It's watching people come home fromincarceration, broken, scared, not knowing
what they're gonna do, pretty much alreadyin their mind, knowing or feeling like
they know that they're gonna fail again.
you work with them and slowlysee them rebuilding their lives.
That's where my hope comes from.
I'll be honest, this last year, ittested that hope in so many ways.
(20:37):
On August 30th last year, my fiancelost his life in a car accident.
He was more than my fiance.
He was my best friend.
When I lost Sherman, Ihad to not lose hope.
I had to first of all become determinedthat that was not an option because I
know that's not what he would've wanted.
We went through one of the most brutalexperiences a person can survive.
(20:59):
We were both stabbed nearly to deathand we were left fighting for our
lives, and even after surviving allof that, the system failed us again.
We became unhoused.
We were criminalized instead of cared for.
There was no real safety net for victims.
They didn't care about us becausewe were also system impacted.
And so in their eyes, we werejust, you know, couple felons must
(21:22):
have been doing something wrong.
We weren't victims in their eyes.
That lack of compassion and lack oftrue victim support, it's what pushed
both of us back into the very systemsthat should have been helping us heal.
Losing Sherman has been one of thehardest things I've ever lived through.
He wasn't just my partner.
He was part of my purpose.
(21:42):
While God had other plans for him, Ipromised myself that from now until
the day that I go home, I'll carrythat forward for us because he was very
passionate about what he saw coming forme when he came home this time and the
work I was putting in for the community.
You could see a glow in his eyes.
What gives me hope now is legacy, knowingthat through the pain, there's still a
calling on my life to fight for change.
(22:04):
I'm gonna use all of that energy,emotions, feelings of loss and
pain and turn it into purpose.
I'm gonna continue to raise awarenessabout our justice system, how it
impacts not just individuals, butfamilies and generations long term.
I'm gonna make sure that I continueto fight, not just for Sherman.
But for other people thatwe've lost along the way.
(22:25):
To anyone listening, who might feelstuck, because of an old record or
feel like because they grew up acertain way or were only subjected
to certain types of environments,that that narrative can never change,
I wanna challenge you that it can.
Please hear me when I sayyou are not that conviction.
You are worthy, filled withpurpose, and you can do anything
(22:49):
that you put your mind to.
You still have worth, and thereis still life after loss, after
prison, after pain, after all of it.
Every day I, um, I work with womenand men that have faced these systems,
whether it's CPS, or it's the carceralsystems, probation, parole, all
(23:09):
of the different dynamics of it.
They come home, they have the best plan intheir head about how this is gonna work.
And what we have to remember asboth the person going through the
experience and as a person that isindirectly impacted, that is a part
of that person's life, is that thereare gonna be barriers you face, right?
That are really hard and systemically beentaught we won't beat them, but you can.
(23:30):
It's very easy.
You just take one step at a time.
You get a job, save yourmoney, find housing.
If you need housing in Texas,I can help you with that.
Get you a good, strong sustainablestructure in your life and
remember you are not whatthey taught you in the system.
God can take the ugliest storms, andI'm a living testament of that, and he
can turn them into something powerful.
(23:52):
Even when it feels like you've losteverything, keep going because you
never know who's watching your strengthand finding hope in your fight.
You have the power every single daywhen you get up to make another decision
that's going to impact the rest of yourlife and the narrative of the path you
go down, and maybe today you messed upand you made some bad decisions, right?
But tomorrow you can get back up andyou can get back on that right path.
(24:13):
I pushed forward and I found somethingthat felt good and that felt real to me.
And that was justice reform.
And that was being bold enoughto say, I know you screwed me.
I know the system isn't right andI'm gonna do something about it.
I found that passion and I never gaveup and I want to throw in that I did
fail, to whoever listens to this.
I failed, I got back in myaddiction, I got back up.
(24:36):
But if I'd never kept hope andfaith I wouldn't be here today.
And so my hope for you is no matter howmany times you fail, you remember it's
about finding something that you loveand like knowing that whatever your heart
believes in, if it's right, then do it.
If you do them organically and youstay focused away from the extra
stuff we're used to, life will change.
(24:57):
But always remember,you only get one chance.
We're not guaranteed tomorrow.
You may not feel like youhave the education to get a
good job or, be anything otherthan somebody that sells dope.
But you absolutely do.
You don't have to give up becauseyou dropped out of school.
Wow.
Your courage and commitment inspire meand so many people across this country.
(25:19):
Your leadership reminds us, transformationis not only possible, but it's
happening every day in our communities.
You know, thanks to individualslike yourself, you've turned
your story into purpose.
You've helped countlessothers see that redemption and
healing can walk hand in hand.
To everyone listening to today's episode,you wanna learn more about Time Done.
(25:42):
You wanna be part of Time Done in Texas,join Sommer in her fight in Texas.
Go to the website at www.timedone.org.
We'll also make sure you are pluggedin to the amazing work Sommer
is doing in Texas, and that TimeDone is done across the country.
Our work at Time Done has alwaysbeen in good hands and even more
(26:03):
with leaders like you, especially
in a state like Texas.
So thank you for all thatyou've been doing across Texas.
Thank you for your commitmentto our Time Done program.
We're excited for you to continueeducating folks in Texas,
but also building leaders andbuilding power across the state.
Thank you all so much to everyonefor listening to today's episode.
(26:25):
Once again, if you wanna becomea member of Crime Survivor
Speak, go to www.cssj.org.
To join Time Done, go to www.timedone.org.
Tune into all podcast episodes onYouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
and other streaming platforms.
Thank you so much for listening today,and we'll talk to you on the next episode.
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