October 23, 2021 • 53 mins
In this interview with Timy (not Timmy) Flower, he tells us how he chose to become homeless, leave the toxic environment of the city, and head for Ben Nevis. In this inspiring story we learn about his experiences on the way and things that will challenge your perception of homelessness.
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(00:00):
My name is Steve Marvel, this iscrucial survival. And today I'm
(00:03):
going to talk to Timmy flower,who's had some experience with
homelessness. Welcome, Timmy.
Uh, yeah, thanks, man. So todayI found a thread on one of the
bushcraft groups on Facebook,about homelessness and there
(00:28):
were a number of people sayingthat they were homeless. And I
said if anybody wanted toparticipate in an interview that
they should get in contact withme in time he's done that and
and so here we are on to talkabout today is some of the
mental and physical hardshipsthat Timmy has encountered and
(00:53):
some of the techniques that he'sused to survive. Timmy tell tell
me about yourself and how youended up in a homeless
situation.
It was about four tiny it'sfunny, right? And this is the
sub store I get everyone to getfree ship. I got made redundant
(01:17):
the second time. My girlfriendasked me and I was pretty broken
at that point. So I decided tojust head out you know, like
Forrest Gump that I startedwalking with. I didn't even have
gear at that point in what I wasdoing. I had my duffel bag with
my gym shorts because I wasdoing gym every day and they
close. So I ended up inYorkshire and I just woke up one
(01:43):
day I thought you know, fuck it.
I'm gonna climb Ben Nevis man.
Yeah, I'd always wanted to dothe third peak. And at this
point I had this idea that Iwanted to camp and I went into a
vape shop in easingwold andthere was a guy in there who I
this is crazy. He does not looklike an ex army guy. But yeah,
(02:06):
it really is like the full deallike 20 years in the regular
ministry and then seven years inthe life para Blue Blue
regiment. Isn't it? Yeah. And Isaid to him look over the course
free days I went into that shopa few times to get kit because I
love vaping and he said let'ssee your Amazon wishlist and I
(02:31):
was a complete noob at thispoint I still consider myself a
newbie so much to learn right atease going through is like um
take on take that shit that shitthat shit what you need all you
need is a bivy bag and cookeryoh you just you just go around
recommending to young men to getget greasy is like now now that
he was being honest because he'sspeaking from personal
(02:52):
experience you know it's justlegitimately The best thing you
can get it's an all rounder goodthing and my dad collects guns
and knives and I tell him he'slike no son is sick cut in
throat you know i mean i said noit's it's survival and I've and
then we have this argument thatgoes on for ages I ended up
getting one out of spite youknow to spine back pocket I got
it from your Camry and it wasdope. It was dope blade. It This
(03:18):
is one thing I've learned ifyou're buying kit if the price
is too good to be true then itis too good to be true. You have
to fork out sometimes unless issurplus.
Yeah yeah, I found that myselfYou can buy a even a pocket
knife you can buy say 20 quid isa reasonable little pocket knife
(03:44):
price, but you can buy one forthree but if you want to
actually use it for more thancutting paper or pencils, then
this is just a waste of moneyand if it's a tool that you're
going to use then it's reallyimportant that that it works I
(04:05):
was teaching 100 nights a yearoutdoors while teaching survival
skills and yeah I need to kitthat was gonna last that wasn't
yourbang on the now my friend I mean
the thing is I had this knifeand I was going around the
Yorkshire Dales and Moore's atthis point trying to get up in
early morning time cuz I waseffective getting eight hours
(04:28):
sleep before because I was bywater the whole time getting my
REM quick. What's it calledWhite Noise sort of sleep again
early and I think the firstthing you do is fire right?
Because I look at Pinterest andPinterest sort of shares like oh
you have to do the fire firstbefore you do anything else or
something. Okay, all right. It'sgonna fog right? I can't even
(04:49):
cut a piece of plywood with thisblade is given me I've got a
video I'm just like smacking ityou know under the swarf always
like it's not cutting So I takeit back to him. I said, Listen,
mate, it doesn't work like thatI bought this tool and it's
advertised as a survival knifeand I can't even cut a Bramble.
And he's like, Oh no, it stillworks. And he gets out a piece
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of cardboard as you're saying hestarts like applying pressure
with the cobble. And the cookeris like man is meant to cart
with gravity alone and yourstory back and forth to get
through this duct tape cobblewithout even the duct tape
attached. And then, of course, aseated in the shop. And then I'm
like, Look, where's the owner?
I'm assuming at this point,because he's young that the
(05:35):
owner is in Benidorm or someshit, and it's his dad. And I
was banging on the now he said,Oh, you know, Daddy's in Spain.
Okay, so it definitely skips ageneration then. And he goes
right down my shot. And I lookat his knuckles, and I've got
all these bruises on. So he'sgot anger issues, what have you.
(05:57):
At this point, I'm like, right?
Well, can I at least get arefund? And he's like, No, you
can't get a refund. I'm like,why? And he's like, well,
because you know, it does whatit's advertised to do said, No,
it doesn't. There's a differenceof opinion here. And I spoke to
some guy later who sort of knowshis stuff. And he said that you
should take them to traderegulations. But I don't have
time at this point. I want toknow who can who can do that.
That's some some glib thing thatpeople say, just off the cuff.
(06:18):
They say, oh, tradedescriptions, trade
descriptions. I don't even knowif trade descriptions is still a
thing. Is this, this this?
looked at it on Google and therewas probably like this web page
and a number. I sent them anemail. Listen, if you got some
random messaging you Oh, hey, Ineed help like getting this
(06:42):
cookie. And I thought it is likeyou're probably used to dealing
with like, jackhammers and shit.
And big contracts of businesseslike this one lone homeless
person complaining a bitsketchy. So I didn't have the
heart sort of shades. But atthat point, I just decided to
set off with it. And I tried tosharpen it over the course of
the two months that followed,and asking strangers to sharpen
(07:03):
the knife is not a good thing todo.
That Hi, I'm homeless guy. I'vegotten birtley military knife.
I mean, I was concealed. I can'thelp myself. I can't sell I got
a big knife or to show it off,you know?
Yeah, it's worth pointing out.
Dear viewers that the the knifeno laws will play. I mean, that
(07:26):
knife probably wasn't the kindof thing that you should have
had, wouldn't you say?
Especially when on publictransport, but sometimes I
couldn't avoid it. You know, Iwas trying to walk as much as
possible, but sometimes you haveto go through choke points. You
have to go through town centres,so I'll keep it at the very
(07:49):
bottom of my pack. Yeah, umYeah, I remember I was I was
teaching. I think it was in, inYorkshire. And within within a
course if you're doing a fiveday course on Dave and Dave, for
you give everybody an apple andthey think you're a god. But I
(08:12):
had to go and get some apples sopot to the new shop, Sainsbury's
or whatever, it was worth it.
And I had my knifein doing Fruit Ninja.
Insane. And I thought to myself,Oh, it's a folding knife. Only.
(08:33):
I sort of claim wasn't thatthe devil that provided the
applegot this phone folding knife in
my pocket. I thought, okay, Icould. I could put this in the
bag that I've brought. Mm hmm.
But that requires me to get itout of my pocket. To put it in
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my bag. I stink like a bonfire.
Because I've been out for thelast four days. And it was just
like, okay, just walk. Walkaround, like your own place
model. And chances are nobodygives a damn. Get your apples.
They really don't actually yeah.
(09:17):
And no one no one really gets ashirt. I mean, I'm, I've been
reading the forums and I mean,I've got a May. He works for the
civil service, shall we justsay, Yeah, and I asked him, you
know, am I really when it camedown to the worst case scenario
someone mentioned that a placethat Oh, there's a there's a
(09:38):
wild Tarzan like s figure goingaround, chopping up public
footpath blockades trying tohelp elderly people is that Oh,
my hero. Thank you feel big. Nowif that did happen. It's like,
am I actually going to be ableto stand up for myself in court
based on you know, the law andlegislation. I mean, I was I was
(09:58):
reading it today. There's somany loopholes. I'm pretty damn
sure you're allowed to own arepeating rifle as long as if
it's too too.
Huh? You sure?
Now this is why I've asked mymate because I'm waiting for him
to reply because I have nouseful one. I mean, when I went
to your camera, I also picked upa rest rocket. And uh, I was
(10:19):
enjoying that, you know, clack,clack, you know, against some
trees back there, and then theguy shit you're not the strap
broke. So they gave me a towknife and a wrist rocket that
the strap broke or the second orthird time You know, I'm in your
car. Very Alright, let's get toit about tricky. I said, Look,
mate, I found you on Facebook.
And he's like, we don't have aFacebook page. It's like, Yes,
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you do. It's right. Here. Look,Matthew in the picture. At this
point, everyone is showing uslike, right, okay, I see
frostmourne I see all the knivesfrom law of laws of the rings.
And I love that shit, you know,but these guys aren't experts of
real sort of proper steel andwhatnot. Yeah. I said, Listen, I
(11:03):
want a second opinion from yourgallery at this point. And he
said, Oh, mommy owns that on myfucks.
What's his knife mill monopolythat they've got going on there?
Dude is crazy. And the problemis, is that that these these
guys who know their trade, andthey're sure they have children,
(11:26):
and they want to get into it,but the kids aren't really
inspired to do it's just a meansof life, you know, getting
money. Yeah, I know, hundreds ofpeople who would love to work
into inside a replica shop. ButI'm asking all these 12 year
olds like, oh, what do you knowabout this? What do you know
about that? Is that just a parttime job? Really? You know,
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assess something.
Oh, yeah. So what else was onyour Amazon wish list that you
thought at the time was animportant tool.
Right? So I have I have loads ofproblems, man. Not I've fucked
up person, man. And especiallywhen it comes to financing. I
get my Universal Credit at thestart of the month on the 25th.
(12:09):
And I got about 408 quid amonth. Yeah, I meant to use that
on food, really. But at thispoint, for the first time in my
life, I started to getmaterialistic. I mean, I used to
earn a killing when I wasworking in property, but I'd
never buy anything for myself, Ilived on a mattress on the
floor. You know, Mitch, I'dspend all my money on booze at
(12:30):
the start of the month takingpeople out, you know, I mean,
and then for the rest of themonth, I'll eat sardines and
peanuts, I had no understandingof how to look after myself. It
was only when I did care workafter being redundant that I
looked after others, Iunderstood how to look after
myself. And that was when I hadless money. I had things. I
found that I found thatinteresting, you know, so I'm
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homeless, and I've got morematerial goods than I've ever
had before. And I can understandwhy people were like, Oh, dude,
that homeless guy is a privatejet or some shit, you know? A
property does, but he's stillhomeless. And you can't take
that away from him. Yeah.
Yeah. So so they they use,they've started with redundancy,
(13:14):
you've ended up losing yourpartner. and off you go with
some equipment of questionablequestionable quality. Yeah, to
Scotland. What sort of time ofthe year was this?
Okay, so I said I left it aroundAugust time, but I can tell you
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exactly because it's a verystrange occurrence days. It was
actually on the ninth year tothe day the Croydon riots
happened, right. And if you'reinto your if you're into
astrology, it was actually whenJupiter was in retrograde, which
is she called the Lionsgateportal and the time of the Midas
touch where everything you touchturns to gold. And I felt there
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was some meaning to that becauseI just seen the Joker movie and
I had this weird feeling thatthe world was gonna turn to shit
for some time. I mean, I don'tusually talk to my family on
WhatsApp, but I was in thefamily whatsapp group I was
like, Guys, something bad'sgonna happen I just say the
Joker movie made me cry I didn'twant to finish it I said I see
too much of myself in this guyeven though you know I'm not
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Joanne a dragon Phoenix evenclose my girlfriends I held my
hands like stay and watch thefilm you paid for it son of a
bitch. And I'm just like, okayyou know, I made it Yeah, yes,
dairy is scary. So, you know,you head out and you start
living in the world and then theapocalypse scenario sort of
becomes this sort of deep seateddesire for it to actually happen
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because you're ready at thispoint. You're ready yeah. Then
you'll be the guy everyone turnsto but in reality life goes on
doesn't that?
Yeah. Yeah, it does. How do youyou your journey up to from Lee
leaving home yeah to Scotlandwas was that a wild journey from
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beginning to end? Or were yousleeping in shelters with other
homeless people?
Everything we are except fromour volumous people.
Oh you were solitary.
I was I was on my own. And I Istarted out by reaching out to a
friend who recommend I did carework because I used to know him
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at Bangor University when Istudied mostly partying and
dropped out I didn't want to gobut it was the year David
Cameron sort said 50% of allstudents and my mom said you
have to go to uni is that I wantto do video game design. She
laughed said there's no courierfeature in that.
Oh, okay.
And then he said to me, said,Tim, come stay with me on the
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couch whenever I meet my husbandand you know, just chill with
us. And I was like, Okay, fine.
They were nice. But after thesecond or third day, when they
realised that I'm not going togive them the pleasure of having
a threesome with me, because Irespect myself at this point. I
set off again, and I didn't knowwhat I was gonna do. So I had a
friend, I'm Korean, and you'rein a place in New York. So I put
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it up to your and then and thenthat's when Ben Nevis in and
yeah, is when I met Bluey. Andthat is when I sort of started
thinking, Okay, we're going todo the whole into the world.
We're going to do the whole Yep.
The Forrest Gump sort of idea.
And, and to be honest, it wasonly later that I started to
discover Michael Pailin. Yes,which is he's the original guy.
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And I really enjoyed watchingsome of those TV shows.
He did a great deal to Pauldidn't they all all over the
world. It was but with a with avery conscious effort to be to
be there. At that, at the timehe was it wasn't quite the
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documentary. outsider, dude.
can't try to pinch other localpeople's fedoras and stuff like
he's just he's just having alaugh.
Yeah. He was in the moment therewhich which which was fantastic.
Okay, so there we are, we're offto bed Nana is probably going to
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be quite cold at the top of BenNevis.
Right?
What What have we learned on theway What if we? What if we
picked up in terms of kit? Whatif we got rid of intensive care?
Well, by the time I'd left, yourI hadn't learned very much
because I was still repeating alot of mistakes. I was still
getting too drunk. I went to thehouse of rambling madness and
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bought a ball contortion and gotcompletely you know, spending
spending money Universal Crediton alcohol, cuz I need didn't
spiration at that point, butthen, you know, one drop of
inspiration, sure, but then awhole litre of it. That's when
it becomes it becomes selfdestructive. And I tried to do
some good things on the way Inoticed the head chefs were
(18:08):
essentially key workers so Imight have a hotel raising world
and when I went out potteringaround the malls there for my
test phase for wild living. Icollected some local produce and
made my own ice cream. And itwas a wild ice cream. Yeah, well
actually it's quite funnybecause at this point, I had the
(18:30):
cream and I've been walkingaround with the cream for about
two days and it resembles youknow, sour milk at this point.
So it's already partially wet.
So then I got this head chefamazing world. And he's like
Tim, fuck off. I don't believeyou can make ice cream a lot.
Okay, so I go, I go into thebeer garden and I get to two
forks and my sort of power ropeand put them together and
whisking in the whisking in thething, and I'll just show him
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some whip is that how the fuckto do that? I didn't give you
any tools. It's too busy to you,but I can do it. And then at
this point says fine All right,you can use the phrase R and
vallila I thought oh, I'm stilldrinking at this point. So I
went down to the local brew shopand I bought some Thunder toffee
vodka. I was like 50 quid Youknow, I'm so stupid. I don't
have this money, but I do in themoment. I have to do things 100%
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or not at all. Which is why whenI'm away from people, and I'm in
the middle of nowhere, I can'tspend my money, which is great.
Because then then I can, youknow, use my brain to get things
done andYeah, good. So our call was a
problem. Was it inspiration orwas it a release with the
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depressionsometimes when I was walking
through the malls, it would beraining and the ground would be
water look at my boots would bewet. And I'd be walking up to
1015 miles a day with a 65 litrerucksack
and it was the only thing thatkept me going
(20:00):
You know, a bottle of Napoleonbrandy or something. And I
wasn't eating, I wasn't beingkind to myself, but then I wake
up in the morning with ahangover and I discovered that
I'm gonna live actually, if Idrink in the morning with a
hangover, it goes away, and thenI'm up and I'm ready to go. But
I, I've cut down on my drinking,especially when I had no money
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to drink, which was most of thetime, but as soon as an hour,
juice up, juice up, getinspired, when I'm juiced up,
I'm inspired, I'm writingeverything down, I'm getting in
trouble, right? Do this do that.
I'm reaching out to people. AndI'm getting ideas. And, you
know, I mean, my long term goalnow is to get my parent motoring
licence. So I can effectivelymake that a lifestyle either to
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go from A to B in the parentmode with my cat and Pam Yeah.
Or to do something bigger andgrander. I don't know. But easy
get there first. It's not easy,but once you're there, you're
there. And you can train otherpeople to teach people to fly. I
never drove. Maggie Thatchersaid a man's a loser after the
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age of 25. He hasn't learned todry while I'll be looking down
from the skies. Fuck you know, Imean
26 learn to drive. Yeah. And um,okay, yeah, I had to give up my
licence when I was 39 which iswhen I had my stroke. Yeah, and
(21:27):
I developed epilepsy and theydon't let you drive if you have
epilepsy. haha so yeah, wasn'tmuch fun to tell on but that
is a crisis moment I that's kindof like soul destroying because
you have a freedom and it'staken away from you because
there's some bullshit which youcan't control. How do you
(21:47):
approach that this is you'relooking into how mentally people
rise up to occasions now peopleare probably listening thinking
oh, this guy's an alcoholicthat's how he copes and
functions No, no, I was so muchworse. I mean, I was briefly
mentioned to you earlier that Idid a sensory deprivation for
about two three months which iswhen I didn't leave the room
(22:08):
because I was just so wrapped upin my head when you left. Yeah,
and I didn't even leave my roomto go to the toilet I was doing
no How would use pissing inbottles things I talked to my
flatmates. There's somethingreally wrong there. You know, I
was filled with malice, hatred,hate myself hated everyone else
went really, really bright wing.
To the point that I was going toWhitehall and joining him at the
(22:31):
rallies there. It took me a longtime to sort of realise that it
was actually my own negativityleaching out into the world that
was making the world a shittyplace. I had to leave Croydon,
the place that made me sick.
Yeah, get better. I a lot ofpeople didn't understand that.
Because I tried everything inCroydon to make it work. But
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sometimes you just have toleave. You have to go somewhere.
You have tolive. Yes, absolutely. And then
actually quick question, whichis, how's your battery? Because
I know you're on your mobilephone. Are we are we good for
battery or?
Right? Wherever you talkingabout during those days? It was
difficult. Right now. So thatmeans I mean, right that Mark
(23:16):
Yeah, rightnow it's great. Because I'm set
up at a b&b. I've been been herefor about a week now. Because
local mind representative lumpme in here. And it's been great.
It's been it's been greatbecause it makes it built trust
in the system again, becausebattery is not an issue at all.
I mean, also I have my my momsent my PC over. So you know,
(23:36):
I've got material goods, I'vegot battery, you know, and I'm
hoping I can find a place tostay here permanently.
Otherwise, I'm going to be backout again. And I don't mind
that. I don't mind that. But I'mgetting comfort again. I'm
getting complacent again.
Yeah. Well,I'm still figuring out you know,
tell me more about your, yourfeelings when when you're out in
(24:03):
the world. You saying that youdon't you didn't have a sort of
group of also homeless people.
Well, what we are experiencing,we are experiencing loneliness.
Where was your skill set? Didyou think that you could cope
(24:26):
and I was not alone. There'ssomething called the law of
averages that I found to besomething that kept me going
because you're constantlythinking about, oh, what am I
going to do next? What am Igoing to do next? You sleep, you
get up earlier and you'reconstantly doing something. And
because I was travelling, Iwasn't staying in one place and
more than three or four days. Iwould meet people I'm a very
(24:50):
social person I would approachpeople and I'll say hey, you
know my name is Tim I've beentravelling from here to here
they go well, that's reallycool, bro. Have some food. Yeah,
you know, to everyone. I know, Ihad so many positive moments
with so many people and I madeso many genuine friends because
(25:10):
the people I meet out in theworld wanted to get away from
the sea. So I wasn't hearingabout the news. I wasn't hearing
about Corona everyone was tryingto escape from we were on the
same level. And here we were, itdidn't matter. I wasn't alone.
Never at any point was I wasmore lonely surrounded by people
in the sea than I was out there.
(25:32):
strangers, strangers, that thethe quality of people that you
meet is completely different. Idon't know, if you've been to
any of the bushcraft meats orshows, particularly the bush
craft make you walk in. Andliterally everybody is not the
(25:59):
same as such, but has the sameoutdoor mentality. They are
giving. They're giving skills,they're saving skills, they are
humble and they have genuine andit just it doesn't work that
sort of when you actuallyoutdoors. Now don't give me on
(26:21):
armchair experts. These are myleast favourite people. They the
armchair expert, that tells somany people on their vastly huge
YouTube channel. Yeah, howsomething works. And then they
(26:42):
obviously doesn'tWell, it's not instructional as
a form of passive aggressive,aggressive behaviour. And
they're just trying to set itupon everyone is like no, we're
just genuine Pete I mean, Inoticed that the Polish labby
forum is the one that I havejoined I haven't got much
experience like yourself inengaging with these kinds of
groups before because it's newto me, but everyone on there
doesn't have money to buy one ofthose. Cynthia what they called
(27:04):
observe a sniper that is thatthey're going for the two Poncho
things you know for Yeah. Andthey're all like passionate
about this and it's sort of aninside joke is like Oh cool.
Cool level, bro. Like Yeah,thanks. You know, just nice to
each other. Yeah. And I lovethat I love that genuine people.
(27:24):
And then you get you get someonewho would post something every
now and then it's like, they'vegot all the care they've got a
Land Rover Defender with one ofthose roofs that goes up and
yeah, like how many times a yeardo you take this? This house out
that you have a witness? Andthey're like, Oh, just for a day
I don't even sleep in it. Oh,here's my wife. I hate you. I
(27:47):
hate you. You don't say it youdon't say it because of course
no course No. Um Okay, so we'reon our way to what was the How
long did it take you to get toto notice let alone um I mean
yeah, soI mean I was very distracted in
New York at this point. I stillhad savings and I was I was
(28:09):
going left right there for I wasgoing to halls to get the master
rope experience and then thatwas closed and I'll be fine. You
know, it goes to Wensleydale andthey'll go Oh get some cheese.
And it turns out that WednesdayDale isn't even got the gift
shop in Wednesdays in Hall solike Fox so go back to halls and
then that's close and like shit.
So I go back to Wednesday downand I find out that they use
(28:31):
European milk in the firstplace. So I'm not going to get
the genuine experience. Youknow, it's a lot of plastic
culture and these sort oftourism parts where they're
like, Hey, you come here you getthat real genuine experience.
But you only get that when youactually leave the trap.
Do you know what I try neverreally understood why. Someone
put cranberries in Wensleydaleand it became so popular just
(28:55):
like white Stilton with apricotthe are these strange staples
market magic cranberries.
So again,you have a problem with
cranberries.
No I it's I've been to theWensleydale cheese okay yeah
it's a there's like 100different is Wednesday day will
with onions and Wensleydale withstrawberry ice cream and all
(29:19):
these things is that whycranberries are why only
cranberriesI mean it's just it's like an
American influence because it'sactually bought out by the
Texans Believe it or not so Iimagine they got their
Thanksgiving projects shippedover and that's it know where
these things you know eventsOkay, so we're on we're on our
way What? What are we learning?
(29:43):
What do we say what what key Areyou acquiring? What kit Are you
getting rid of? How are youlearning?
These I'll show you the bestdamn thing I bought. It was only
15 quid. I'm using it as a sortof turning my regular wooden
chair into an armchair is thetop seven Magnus you see here?
Oh, I absolutely love it. It'salso a great meditation blanket.
(30:07):
Yeah, I mean, I had all theseground mats and they pop the air
once a pop, you know, I mean,but this is just extra space.
But heavier bass is the best.
Yeah.
That's that's the thing thatpeople moan about the go, Oh,
no, it's got to be lightweight,it's got to be expensive. It's
got to be lightweight, it'sexpensive. And I admit that my
my stuff, it's not ultralightweight, but it's
(30:29):
lightweight enough that I cancarry it for 100 out for a mile
with all fishing gear, andsometimes some of the client
gear because they can't carryit. I
and that is the crazy thing.
Before I've set out. I've beentraining myself with weighted
backpacks just to give myselfexercise outside of the gym. My
(30:50):
idea was that I was going tocarry as much weight as I could,
because I want to do everything.
There was a point and this iswhen I told my rotary calf and
sprained two ankles that Iactually strapped together to 65
litre bags, because I wasadvertised was advertised as 120
litres. I got 65 it was that 20pounds and these brand one,
(31:16):
which is just too good to betrue. So I just I lump the two
together. And I had a stove onme as well. And a spade. So So I
mean, I was going about 1015miles with insane amounts of
care. People say Look, you'reskinny, but I know I'll take my
top off and then look, myshoulder muscles are up to here,
you know, it was physically verydemanding process. And it was
(31:39):
the rewarding factor of that atthe end of the day collapsing
each and every day, you know,and that's why the alcohol helps
as well because it's painful.
Your body doesn't have time torest. You're moving constantly.
And it was only when I stoppedmoving. Every now and then I
realised how much I was puttingmy body through. And the mind
became stronger during that. Itdidn't become weaker, it became
(31:59):
stronger. Yeah, and I'm veryhappy. I like David Goggins. I
like Jordan Peterson. I like allthese inspirational people and
listening to them absorbingthem, and it's all connected.
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk aboutmental resilience. The the
(32:19):
problems you were facing, how?
How did your mindset change onon your journey? What do you
what do you feel that you youhad you had to shed or that you
had to acquire in order to carryon without falling into a pit of
(32:43):
alcohol or giving up orreturning to society because
it's too difficult? Well, whatwas I gave up, I gave up I said,
there's no future for me. I'mjust gonna keep pushing myself
till I die. But I was very, veryvocal about that. I had someone
(33:04):
in my family messaged me onFacebook and she's like, just
get a job. I've been applyingtrying to get a job for a very
long time. At this point. I wasangry. So I said, Listen, I'm
doing what I'm setting out todo. My she's married to my
grandpa my grandpa is the nextFormula One driver His name's
john brennan. You can check itout and Brands Hatch. I reached
out to him because I neverreally knew growing up and he
(33:24):
said to me, 10 there's one thingelse Brittany's do, we say what
we're going to do. And if yousay you're going to do
something, you do it. And healso taught me to know my worth.
He said, You know, I knew myworth from a young age I left
this job they didn't pay meenough. And hearing this a man's
advice because I mean the amountof hours to just don't grow up
with decent advice fromolder people. Yeah,
(33:49):
I mean the fact that you'reyou're 20 years your junior and
you're still listening to mestill interviewing me that that
means a lot because how am Imeant to learn what's in my
head? If it's right or wrong? IfI'm not allowed to speak it and
have someone listen to it?
That's the learning curve. I'vestill get things wrong all the
time. I'm still Oh, whodoesn't? Who doesn't get things
wrong? Who, who's who's so upthemselves? So they might say,
(34:10):
oh, I've got it. I'm an expert.
I've I have read all of this.
Yeah. I have momsare moms no doubt joking.
I've read all of this. I'veresearched I've been out there
I've practised. I've talked toexperts. I've I say I've
(34:36):
experimented I balls things up,because you will know that you
people will go Oh no, you don'tgrow through failure. It's like
you bloody do grow throughfailure. It's almost mandatory
to fail. When you sayI wasn't afraid of failing
because I knew at the end of theday that I'll be physically
(34:57):
tired and I can Pull back onthat I can say Well, hey, you
can criticise me from the otherside of that screen whilst I've
been outside breaking my back.
Yeah spraining my spraining myfeet you know, Terry mercury
cough getting dysentery frominfected Glen water. You can my
(35:18):
guts out moments you know, butoutnumbered by the positivity
and human kindness and yourexperience, you know is better
than anything?
I'm sure you familiar with wholofty Wiseman is?
No, never Oh, you've no Tell meabout him.
lofty Wiseman wrote the SASsurvival Handbook, which was
(35:43):
like the seminal work onsurvival available to the
public. Okay. And it waspublished when I was 13. And I
ordered it from the bookshop andI queued, I was outside the
bookshop, when it opened to getthere. And um, yeah, it's, it's,
(36:08):
it's amazing. And it's in 19languages it's in. It was
Collins HarperCollins, bestseller, basically forever. And I
think it's number one or numbertwo, still in survival skills on
(36:29):
Amazon. But one of the versionsof it. I loved he now he's in
his 70s will still say, I'm notan expert. Don't call me an
expert.
Yeah, that's grass hungry,right? Yeah.
Do you think you can give thatbook to anyone who's homeless on
that forum? And we will go backto the beginning is I asked a
(36:49):
question on the wild campingforum. Anyone else homeless
here? And then the responses?
asked it. Yeah, yeah, that wasamazing,
right? Because I just got, Isee. Yeah. And then I didn't
clock that.
It really blew up. And thenthere was 130 and 140 comments
of people saying, if you're inthis area, reach out to me, I'll
(37:12):
give you a hotbed and thing Iwent to sleep that night feeling
fucking great, because I wasn'tneeding help and charity at that
point. Look, I'm in the b&b atthe moment, you know, I mean,
yeah. But I reckon like maybe,you know, if just one or two
people are gonna have a nicesleep that night, it was
something that I initiated, andI can't take credit for that.
Maybe, you know, but also allthe lovely people that reached
(37:34):
out these are bush survivalexperts. They know what the core
needs of a human being are.
Yeah, it's the perfect place fora homeless person to reach out
to effectively Absolutely. Imean, I got offered a LabVIEW 10
by some guy from your and I'llsay I'll do that's great. I love
lovies but I turned it downbecause I don't need it. You
know, I'm looking to stay herenow. I'm going to have a break.
(37:54):
I'm going to my cash I'm goingto save up. I'm going to be a
positive impact on thiscommunity. I've already reached
out to do some voluntarylocally, and I've been helping a
boy on my halls apply for jobshe's just out of the clanger so
I mean I've tried to keep asactive as possible and
especially after the worldbecause your brains like I've
(38:16):
claimed Penny van twice in thelast two days The first time was
hard enough because it was in mykit. The second time I didn't
want to do it, but I saw thisguy just out of prison I'm like
thought he's dead his eyes woulddead man and he was like yeah,
I'm gonna go back into drugs youknow all that shit. I was like,
fuck you're coming with me. AndI took him up that mountain.
Yeah, we have to turn back nearthe last 40 foot because at this
(38:38):
point darkness has started todescend and it's very vertical
climb from Bracken and I didn'twant to be responsible for
anything bad happening someoneelse so I said we'll turn back
we'll climb again on Friday andsometimes you have to be
sensible you know?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely thesearch and rescue operative
(39:00):
which I did for many years whilethe yeah it's okay to just go
into the day it really really isbeing mindful of problems this
sort of situational awareness ofwhat the problems could be with
(39:25):
just sunset yeah that's that's alovely Oh, if you've ever tried
in the middle of nowhere and I'msure you have in the middle of
the nowhere gone you know whatit's got a bit dark probably
should like fire. Oh god.
Yeah. Funnily enough, then abouta week ago, I've been in this
(39:48):
b&b for two or three nights andI had another extended family
member Cheran talents, mycredibility online.
And I set out again,I was like, Fuck this. I'm going
back out. It's about 10 miles atthis point so as I said, I'm
gonna walk to Aberystwyth frombreckin walk and then I'm gonna
follow the coast back toScotland to Harris where there's
(40:11):
less light pollution I can youknow see Sagittarius out on my
birthday or something like thatyou know i mean i found some
toilet blocks and then the referasked down here like 3045 foot
drop at its pitch back on my oldtoilet box I don't have to do a
slippery shear on the log in themorning camp here so I climb
over the sort of road theblockade to the descent on the
(40:35):
river OS and right right it'spretty dark and I got all my kit
on my stove and shit I'm likefelt this stupid but anyway I'll
go with it. Do some Tarzan sharegrab some vines you know start
pouring down I had the foresightto grab two vines. Because you
know, one always breaks one onedid not break but it's sort of
snagged when it loosens on oneside or like five and my cat
(40:56):
swinging I'm aiming for a rockyoutcrop This is at a point of
view where the rivers completelyoverflowing it's like death
before the I'm a fire signaquarium does not like me so I'm
slipping down on my house andI'm like oh fuck so this is
where I am no Mike no no justfocus you know here you'll be
(41:16):
fine. I did I managed to get onthis crop. And I get my goodie
bag out I set fire for it it wasbit wet but I had the foresight
to pack my alcohol Joe and a bitsheets Will you wrap it around
and log you get a mini sort ofIndiana Jones branch like we're
in scape style for you knowspicture so it's beautiful. And
then fall asleep. No tarp atthis point. So I'm like a
(41:38):
caterpillar my little bitty bearin my face Pocono snug, but then
you know, 40 foot droplets fromtrees giving me a waterboarding
process. The whole night is fun.
Wake up in the morning, fourhours back to the top and
there's a lady in the bakingbuddy band just looking like
what the fuck is going on withyou? Do you take car she's like
no, like, are you she's likewell have a coffee then. But how
(42:01):
many sugars she's satisfied? Oh,I'll take all of the saga.
I will take all of the second Iwill use them. And if you have
that Muscovado shit. I will takethat too. Yeah, it keeps you
going. keeps going. I never usedto like sugary things. But when
I started to push myself likethat you need it. People.
(42:21):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. AlthoughI remember, I was doing a
endurance walk. And that's the,this is where I discovered
people will say about hittingthe wall as a marathon Warner. I
was doing 100k walk for theBerkeley welfare trust. And
(42:44):
yeah, 6863 miles or something.
And then the last little first20 miles. I'm like, yeah, this
is a good hike. Yeah. Yeah. 40miles in. Yeah. It's like, yeah,
we're in the middle of thenight. Now. It's like three is
still walking beside God.
Actually, this is hard. Now whatwere you holding? Oh. 25 Li is
(43:09):
something like that. No, yeah,it wasn't much because we every
10 miles.
If it's a lot, if you're not,you have to break into it
slowly. And for you to just bustout with a 25 litre pack for
that distance is not easy, myfriend. I bet you felt it the
next day.
Oh, I felt all sorts the nextday. But yeah, we said 14 miles
(43:32):
is like, Oh, this is serious.
Yeah, this is this is like, I Ican I can stop now. I can't stop
now. Yeah, my bank brains tryingto generate all of these
excuses. As why I can stop.
(43:54):
Yeah. So Oh, yeah. You try tobest result? No, you didn't.
Yeah, you didnot. salutely everything you
could to get yourself to thatphysical point. Yeah. And that's
when you could go to sleep andyou can be in your own power.
You can stand in your own power.
And anyone comes at you thatnight and tries to discredit
what you do. They will bloodyknow how wrong they are. Not
(44:17):
afraid to stand up yourselfbecause you just stood up
yourself. 40 miles.
Yeah, 40 miles. Now we've gotanother 23 to do. Oh shit,
right. And yeah, there's there'sthree of it by now from for.
Yeah, my and yeah, this this isI yeah, sugar and painkillers is
(44:39):
basically how we're gettingthere. And there's this chap.
He's, he's we normally side byside. But he drops by a little
bit and he's on the phone to hiswife. Yeah, in tears. Yeah. And
we just, we're just going andgoing and going and we get it.
(44:59):
You've got 24 To do thisbeautiful, we got to come in
with the race courses. Just nearthe downs. southdowns
southdowns.
I know the one. Yeah, like,yeah,
Petersfield too. So anyway,there's a there's a race course.
(45:20):
And that's where you finish. Andyou can see the clock. And we
are we are in the last minute.
Because we just pause thecalculations up, complete. Yeah.
Yeah, we're in the last minute.
And I've got the photos to proveit that we sprinted. Yeah, we
(45:44):
sprinted the last 50 metres andI've got a certificate that says
23 hours, 59 minutes and 56seconds or whatever it was.
Your body is just took over atthat point, your mind. Feel mind
and body big.
brother and I, when I reachedwhen I reached another softer
(46:05):
walk in 400 500 miles, I didn'trest. I woke up that morning and
I climbed my initial plan was toclimate free times and do the
free peak challenge because Idon't drive. But I ended up just
going up as quick as I could.
And you know, I've got thistomorrow, cough sprained ankle
(46:26):
as well. So I thought I'd do itmy kit. And I was half
clambering scrambling up going,and I did it. 140 minutes with
my injuries to the summit. And Iburst into tears. And it's like,
what you just went through whenyou're going that last sprint?
Yeah, I it becomes almostbliss. Oh, endorphins much?
Yeah. Yeah,absolutely. As an ex Otto, is
(46:50):
the best hire you ever get isyou can stand in your truth. And
you know that you did your bestto get there.
Yeah. And I was at the end. Andthere's there's a left hand and,
and they can give us med medals.
And this little place to standon. And I'm just like, Do I have
(47:11):
to? Yeah, yes, you do. It saysyou fall into? Yeah. And yeah,
just getting that leg up. ontothat, please. Because in my mind
I, I had finished. Yeah. And nowit's like, I've already gone
(47:32):
through carrying on. And nowit's, oh, no, we've not
finished. And just that step.
And it's that experience fromthen on. I did it five times.
We'll just catch. Yeah.
(47:56):
DAF told me what carrying on waswhat exhaustion was. What giving
everything is, and then how youcan just give yourself loads
loads of excuses. Yeah, it mightbe Oh, yeah. I'm homeless. I'm,
(48:19):
I'm an alcoholic. I might aswell just take heroin out. Oh, I
might be so it's okay. I did mybest or this or that. It could
be anything. But it's thisexcuses. Yeah, it took me it
took me years to realise thatthis was a thing in my head.
That I had to have a word withmyself, because it's impossible
(48:41):
to be accountable to yourself.
Because you've I'll tellyou what, what when I started to
make big changes in my life, I'dalready given up inside I was
actually just trying to act. Iwas trying to pretend that I was
over. I faked it. I faked beinghappy. I faked being a positive
role model to members of myfamily, younger ones who were in
drugs and whatnot. You know, Iwas faking it. I was dead
(49:05):
inside. But then slowly overtime, I started to actually
resemble the mask I was puttingon in a good way. And then it
started to become the I startedbecoming this positive guy who
wasn't sleeping half a day andpaying on the computer or all
the time. You know, I was I wasgetting out there. I was pushing
myself I was training forswimathon I was going to the gym
every day. I went from 15 to 11it was a tricky tricky thing. It
(49:27):
was once once you stoppretending it's easy because
you're at the back you'rethinking home so full of shit,
you know? We go so shit and Iunderstand why I'm really
irritating this person in thepub because obviously it's all
Me, me me. This is what I'mdoing about my life to get
there. What are you doing?
(49:50):
You're not doing it to benefitfrom other people's displeasure.
You're doing it to prove thatyou can change and that's what
happened slowly over time. Isthe make or break moment I
decided to just put on the mask?
Pretend? Yeah. And I don'tsometimes worry that if I get
complacent again, I'll returnback to that. But I think after
(50:11):
going this far, I don't thinkI'll ever let that happen again,
ever. Yeah, it's like when youstand on that plinth, and you
take that photo, you can lookback at that. And you can say,
yeah, I've done that. I've donethat.
This is something monumentalabout bursting into tears at
(50:32):
something. And I've had peopleon courses in tears,
because they are just speakingof bursting into tears. I think
the landlord I've left a load ofmy washing in the bathtub, and
we got new people coming overit. really got to wrap this up
like, Yeah,of course. Of course. Um, let me
let me just let me just finishoff with a couple of things
(50:56):
then. So you've you've overcomea lot mentally, then you've
learned a lot of skills. Do youthink that now you could do any
amount of outdoors anywhere inthe world? What would how how
(51:16):
are you bound now?
aspirations for the future?
Well, there's the paralysing,but there's also I want to climb
Everest, I want to do this. Iwant to do that. I mean, I
initially wanted to do wintercamping so that I could train
myself for even harsherenvironments. Yeah, some people
are like, Oh, isn't that harshenough? It's like yeah, I've
(51:37):
done courses of minus 10. Andthat separates people.
Yeah, it does. But you know whatalso separates me from minus 10
is my Arctic sleeping bag, soI'll be bouncing bomb one ones.
Oh, I've gota stuck pack. Which is
apparently good optimizer. 17.
And then I've got the duckSpivey and then, but that sounds
(51:59):
good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Okay, so before you before you,thin out. You got anything to
say. For people who are homelesspeople who need citizen skills?
Yeah. ration just just hit it.
(52:21):
If you're in a city and you'rehomeless, you can keep your
dignity by getting out in thewild. That's all I've got
to say. Brilliant. Brilliant. Soit's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for taking the timethey have to. We had a nightmare
getting zoom together. Thank youfor sticking with
(52:41):
Yeah, but what followed was thejury my friend.
So what I'm gonna say is anycomments or questions that
people might have orexperiences, find them in the
comments, and one or both of usor other people might answer
those or get in touch or reachout in some way. But for now,
(53:08):
thanks for watching. Thanks forcoming on to me, and thank you.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
My name is Steve Marvel, this iscrucial survival. And today I'm
(00:03):
going to talk to Timmy flower,who's had some experience with
homelessness. Welcome, Timmy.
Uh, yeah, thanks, man. So todayI found a thread on one of the
bushcraft groups on Facebook,about homelessness and there
(00:28):
were a number of people sayingthat they were homeless. And I
said if anybody wanted toparticipate in an interview that
they should get in contact withme in time he's done that and
and so here we are on to talkabout today is some of the
mental and physical hardshipsthat Timmy has encountered and
(00:53):
some of the techniques that he'sused to survive. Timmy tell tell
me about yourself and how youended up in a homeless
situation.
It was about four tiny it'sfunny, right? And this is the
sub store I get everyone to getfree ship. I got made redundant
(01:17):
the second time. My girlfriendasked me and I was pretty broken
at that point. So I decided tojust head out you know, like
Forrest Gump that I startedwalking with. I didn't even have
gear at that point in what I wasdoing. I had my duffel bag with
my gym shorts because I wasdoing gym every day and they
close. So I ended up inYorkshire and I just woke up one
(01:43):
day I thought you know, fuck it.
I'm gonna climb Ben Nevis man.
Yeah, I'd always wanted to dothe third peak. And at this
point I had this idea that Iwanted to camp and I went into a
vape shop in easingwold andthere was a guy in there who I
this is crazy. He does not looklike an ex army guy. But yeah,
(02:06):
it really is like the full deallike 20 years in the regular
ministry and then seven years inthe life para Blue Blue
regiment. Isn't it? Yeah. And Isaid to him look over the course
free days I went into that shopa few times to get kit because I
love vaping and he said let'ssee your Amazon wishlist and I
(02:31):
was a complete noob at thispoint I still consider myself a
newbie so much to learn right atease going through is like um
take on take that shit that shitthat shit what you need all you
need is a bivy bag and cookeryoh you just you just go around
recommending to young men to getget greasy is like now now that
he was being honest because he'sspeaking from personal
(02:52):
experience you know it's justlegitimately The best thing you
can get it's an all rounder goodthing and my dad collects guns
and knives and I tell him he'slike no son is sick cut in
throat you know i mean i said noit's it's survival and I've and
then we have this argument thatgoes on for ages I ended up
getting one out of spite youknow to spine back pocket I got
it from your Camry and it wasdope. It was dope blade. It This
(03:18):
is one thing I've learned ifyou're buying kit if the price
is too good to be true then itis too good to be true. You have
to fork out sometimes unless issurplus.
Yeah yeah, I found that myselfYou can buy a even a pocket
knife you can buy say 20 quid isa reasonable little pocket knife
(03:44):
price, but you can buy one forthree but if you want to
actually use it for more thancutting paper or pencils, then
this is just a waste of moneyand if it's a tool that you're
going to use then it's reallyimportant that that it works I
(04:05):
was teaching 100 nights a yearoutdoors while teaching survival
skills and yeah I need to kitthat was gonna last that wasn't
yourbang on the now my friend I mean
the thing is I had this knifeand I was going around the
Yorkshire Dales and Moore's atthis point trying to get up in
early morning time cuz I waseffective getting eight hours
(04:28):
sleep before because I was bywater the whole time getting my
REM quick. What's it calledWhite Noise sort of sleep again
early and I think the firstthing you do is fire right?
Because I look at Pinterest andPinterest sort of shares like oh
you have to do the fire firstbefore you do anything else or
something. Okay, all right. It'sgonna fog right? I can't even
(04:49):
cut a piece of plywood with thisblade is given me I've got a
video I'm just like smacking ityou know under the swarf always
like it's not cutting So I takeit back to him. I said, Listen,
mate, it doesn't work like thatI bought this tool and it's
advertised as a survival knifeand I can't even cut a Bramble.
And he's like, Oh no, it stillworks. And he gets out a piece
(05:14):
of cardboard as you're saying hestarts like applying pressure
with the cobble. And the cookeris like man is meant to cart
with gravity alone and yourstory back and forth to get
through this duct tape cobblewithout even the duct tape
attached. And then, of course, aseated in the shop. And then I'm
like, Look, where's the owner?
I'm assuming at this point,because he's young that the
(05:35):
owner is in Benidorm or someshit, and it's his dad. And I
was banging on the now he said,Oh, you know, Daddy's in Spain.
Okay, so it definitely skips ageneration then. And he goes
right down my shot. And I lookat his knuckles, and I've got
all these bruises on. So he'sgot anger issues, what have you.
(05:57):
At this point, I'm like, right?
Well, can I at least get arefund? And he's like, No, you
can't get a refund. I'm like,why? And he's like, well,
because you know, it does whatit's advertised to do said, No,
it doesn't. There's a differenceof opinion here. And I spoke to
some guy later who sort of knowshis stuff. And he said that you
should take them to traderegulations. But I don't have
time at this point. I want toknow who can who can do that.
That's some some glib thing thatpeople say, just off the cuff.
(06:18):
They say, oh, tradedescriptions, trade
descriptions. I don't even knowif trade descriptions is still a
thing. Is this, this this?
looked at it on Google and therewas probably like this web page
and a number. I sent them anemail. Listen, if you got some
random messaging you Oh, hey, Ineed help like getting this
(06:42):
cookie. And I thought it is likeyou're probably used to dealing
with like, jackhammers and shit.
And big contracts of businesseslike this one lone homeless
person complaining a bitsketchy. So I didn't have the
heart sort of shades. But atthat point, I just decided to
set off with it. And I tried tosharpen it over the course of
the two months that followed,and asking strangers to sharpen
(07:03):
the knife is not a good thing todo.
That Hi, I'm homeless guy. I'vegotten birtley military knife.
I mean, I was concealed. I can'thelp myself. I can't sell I got
a big knife or to show it off,you know?
Yeah, it's worth pointing out.
Dear viewers that the the knifeno laws will play. I mean, that
(07:26):
knife probably wasn't the kindof thing that you should have
had, wouldn't you say?
Especially when on publictransport, but sometimes I
couldn't avoid it. You know, Iwas trying to walk as much as
possible, but sometimes you haveto go through choke points. You
have to go through town centres,so I'll keep it at the very
(07:49):
bottom of my pack. Yeah, umYeah, I remember I was I was
teaching. I think it was in, inYorkshire. And within within a
course if you're doing a fiveday course on Dave and Dave, for
you give everybody an apple andthey think you're a god. But I
(08:12):
had to go and get some apples sopot to the new shop, Sainsbury's
or whatever, it was worth it.
And I had my knifein doing Fruit Ninja.
Insane. And I thought to myself,Oh, it's a folding knife. Only.
(08:33):
I sort of claim wasn't thatthe devil that provided the
applegot this phone folding knife in
my pocket. I thought, okay, Icould. I could put this in the
bag that I've brought. Mm hmm.
But that requires me to get itout of my pocket. To put it in
(08:56):
my bag. I stink like a bonfire.
Because I've been out for thelast four days. And it was just
like, okay, just walk. Walkaround, like your own place
model. And chances are nobodygives a damn. Get your apples.
They really don't actually yeah.
(09:17):
And no one no one really gets ashirt. I mean, I'm, I've been
reading the forums and I mean,I've got a May. He works for the
civil service, shall we justsay, Yeah, and I asked him, you
know, am I really when it camedown to the worst case scenario
someone mentioned that a placethat Oh, there's a there's a
(09:38):
wild Tarzan like s figure goingaround, chopping up public
footpath blockades trying tohelp elderly people is that Oh,
my hero. Thank you feel big. Nowif that did happen. It's like,
am I actually going to be ableto stand up for myself in court
based on you know, the law andlegislation. I mean, I was I was
(09:58):
reading it today. There's somany loopholes. I'm pretty damn
sure you're allowed to own arepeating rifle as long as if
it's too too.
Huh? You sure?
Now this is why I've asked mymate because I'm waiting for him
to reply because I have nouseful one. I mean, when I went
to your camera, I also picked upa rest rocket. And uh, I was
(10:19):
enjoying that, you know, clack,clack, you know, against some
trees back there, and then theguy shit you're not the strap
broke. So they gave me a towknife and a wrist rocket that
the strap broke or the second orthird time You know, I'm in your
car. Very Alright, let's get toit about tricky. I said, Look,
mate, I found you on Facebook.
And he's like, we don't have aFacebook page. It's like, Yes,
(10:41):
you do. It's right. Here. Look,Matthew in the picture. At this
point, everyone is showing uslike, right, okay, I see
frostmourne I see all the knivesfrom law of laws of the rings.
And I love that shit, you know,but these guys aren't experts of
real sort of proper steel andwhatnot. Yeah. I said, Listen, I
(11:03):
want a second opinion from yourgallery at this point. And he
said, Oh, mommy owns that on myfucks.
What's his knife mill monopolythat they've got going on there?
Dude is crazy. And the problemis, is that that these these
guys who know their trade, andthey're sure they have children,
(11:26):
and they want to get into it,but the kids aren't really
inspired to do it's just a meansof life, you know, getting
money. Yeah, I know, hundreds ofpeople who would love to work
into inside a replica shop. ButI'm asking all these 12 year
olds like, oh, what do you knowabout this? What do you know
about that? Is that just a parttime job? Really? You know,
(11:47):
assess something.
Oh, yeah. So what else was onyour Amazon wish list that you
thought at the time was animportant tool.
Right? So I have I have loads ofproblems, man. Not I've fucked
up person, man. And especiallywhen it comes to financing. I
get my Universal Credit at thestart of the month on the 25th.
(12:09):
And I got about 408 quid amonth. Yeah, I meant to use that
on food, really. But at thispoint, for the first time in my
life, I started to getmaterialistic. I mean, I used to
earn a killing when I wasworking in property, but I'd
never buy anything for myself, Ilived on a mattress on the
floor. You know, Mitch, I'dspend all my money on booze at
(12:30):
the start of the month takingpeople out, you know, I mean,
and then for the rest of themonth, I'll eat sardines and
peanuts, I had no understandingof how to look after myself. It
was only when I did care workafter being redundant that I
looked after others, Iunderstood how to look after
myself. And that was when I hadless money. I had things. I
found that I found thatinteresting, you know, so I'm
(12:52):
homeless, and I've got morematerial goods than I've ever
had before. And I can understandwhy people were like, Oh, dude,
that homeless guy is a privatejet or some shit, you know? A
property does, but he's stillhomeless. And you can't take
that away from him. Yeah.
Yeah. So so they they use,they've started with redundancy,
(13:14):
you've ended up losing yourpartner. and off you go with
some equipment of questionablequestionable quality. Yeah, to
Scotland. What sort of time ofthe year was this?
Okay, so I said I left it aroundAugust time, but I can tell you
(13:34):
exactly because it's a verystrange occurrence days. It was
actually on the ninth year tothe day the Croydon riots
happened, right. And if you'reinto your if you're into
astrology, it was actually whenJupiter was in retrograde, which
is she called the Lionsgateportal and the time of the Midas
touch where everything you touchturns to gold. And I felt there
(13:57):
was some meaning to that becauseI just seen the Joker movie and
I had this weird feeling thatthe world was gonna turn to shit
for some time. I mean, I don'tusually talk to my family on
WhatsApp, but I was in thefamily whatsapp group I was
like, Guys, something bad'sgonna happen I just say the
Joker movie made me cry I didn'twant to finish it I said I see
too much of myself in this guyeven though you know I'm not
(14:19):
Joanne a dragon Phoenix evenclose my girlfriends I held my
hands like stay and watch thefilm you paid for it son of a
bitch. And I'm just like, okayyou know, I made it Yeah, yes,
dairy is scary. So, you know,you head out and you start
living in the world and then theapocalypse scenario sort of
becomes this sort of deep seateddesire for it to actually happen
(14:44):
because you're ready at thispoint. You're ready yeah. Then
you'll be the guy everyone turnsto but in reality life goes on
doesn't that?
Yeah. Yeah, it does. How do youyou your journey up to from Lee
leaving home yeah to Scotlandwas was that a wild journey from
(15:07):
beginning to end? Or were yousleeping in shelters with other
homeless people?
Everything we are except fromour volumous people.
Oh you were solitary.
I was I was on my own. And I Istarted out by reaching out to a
friend who recommend I did carework because I used to know him
(15:29):
at Bangor University when Istudied mostly partying and
dropped out I didn't want to gobut it was the year David
Cameron sort said 50% of allstudents and my mom said you
have to go to uni is that I wantto do video game design. She
laughed said there's no courierfeature in that.
Oh, okay.
And then he said to me, said,Tim, come stay with me on the
(15:51):
couch whenever I meet my husbandand you know, just chill with
us. And I was like, Okay, fine.
They were nice. But after thesecond or third day, when they
realised that I'm not going togive them the pleasure of having
a threesome with me, because Irespect myself at this point. I
set off again, and I didn't knowwhat I was gonna do. So I had a
friend, I'm Korean, and you'rein a place in New York. So I put
(16:12):
it up to your and then and thenthat's when Ben Nevis in and
yeah, is when I met Bluey. Andthat is when I sort of started
thinking, Okay, we're going todo the whole into the world.
We're going to do the whole Yep.
The Forrest Gump sort of idea.
And, and to be honest, it wasonly later that I started to
discover Michael Pailin. Yes,which is he's the original guy.
(16:37):
And I really enjoyed watchingsome of those TV shows.
He did a great deal to Pauldidn't they all all over the
world. It was but with a with avery conscious effort to be to
be there. At that, at the timehe was it wasn't quite the
(17:01):
documentary. outsider, dude.
can't try to pinch other localpeople's fedoras and stuff like
he's just he's just having alaugh.
Yeah. He was in the moment therewhich which which was fantastic.
Okay, so there we are, we're offto bed Nana is probably going to
(17:24):
be quite cold at the top of BenNevis.
Right?
What What have we learned on theway What if we? What if we
picked up in terms of kit? Whatif we got rid of intensive care?
Well, by the time I'd left, yourI hadn't learned very much
because I was still repeating alot of mistakes. I was still
getting too drunk. I went to thehouse of rambling madness and
(17:46):
bought a ball contortion and gotcompletely you know, spending
spending money Universal Crediton alcohol, cuz I need didn't
spiration at that point, butthen, you know, one drop of
inspiration, sure, but then awhole litre of it. That's when
it becomes it becomes selfdestructive. And I tried to do
some good things on the way Inoticed the head chefs were
(18:08):
essentially key workers so Imight have a hotel raising world
and when I went out potteringaround the malls there for my
test phase for wild living. Icollected some local produce and
made my own ice cream. And itwas a wild ice cream. Yeah, well
actually it's quite funnybecause at this point, I had the
(18:30):
cream and I've been walkingaround with the cream for about
two days and it resembles youknow, sour milk at this point.
So it's already partially wet.
So then I got this head chefamazing world. And he's like
Tim, fuck off. I don't believeyou can make ice cream a lot.
Okay, so I go, I go into thebeer garden and I get to two
forks and my sort of power ropeand put them together and
whisking in the whisking in thething, and I'll just show him
(18:51):
some whip is that how the fuckto do that? I didn't give you
any tools. It's too busy to you,but I can do it. And then at
this point says fine All right,you can use the phrase R and
vallila I thought oh, I'm stilldrinking at this point. So I
went down to the local brew shopand I bought some Thunder toffee
vodka. I was like 50 quid Youknow, I'm so stupid. I don't
have this money, but I do in themoment. I have to do things 100%
(19:14):
or not at all. Which is why whenI'm away from people, and I'm in
the middle of nowhere, I can'tspend my money, which is great.
Because then then I can, youknow, use my brain to get things
done andYeah, good. So our call was a
problem. Was it inspiration orwas it a release with the
(19:38):
depressionsometimes when I was walking
through the malls, it would beraining and the ground would be
water look at my boots would bewet. And I'd be walking up to
1015 miles a day with a 65 litrerucksack
and it was the only thing thatkept me going
(20:00):
You know, a bottle of Napoleonbrandy or something. And I
wasn't eating, I wasn't beingkind to myself, but then I wake
up in the morning with ahangover and I discovered that
I'm gonna live actually, if Idrink in the morning with a
hangover, it goes away, and thenI'm up and I'm ready to go. But
I, I've cut down on my drinking,especially when I had no money
(20:21):
to drink, which was most of thetime, but as soon as an hour,
juice up, juice up, getinspired, when I'm juiced up,
I'm inspired, I'm writingeverything down, I'm getting in
trouble, right? Do this do that.
I'm reaching out to people. AndI'm getting ideas. And, you
know, I mean, my long term goalnow is to get my parent motoring
licence. So I can effectivelymake that a lifestyle either to
(20:45):
go from A to B in the parentmode with my cat and Pam Yeah.
Or to do something bigger andgrander. I don't know. But easy
get there first. It's not easy,but once you're there, you're
there. And you can train otherpeople to teach people to fly. I
never drove. Maggie Thatchersaid a man's a loser after the
(21:05):
age of 25. He hasn't learned todry while I'll be looking down
from the skies. Fuck you know, Imean
26 learn to drive. Yeah. And um,okay, yeah, I had to give up my
licence when I was 39 which iswhen I had my stroke. Yeah, and
(21:27):
I developed epilepsy and theydon't let you drive if you have
epilepsy. haha so yeah, wasn'tmuch fun to tell on but that
is a crisis moment I that's kindof like soul destroying because
you have a freedom and it'staken away from you because
there's some bullshit which youcan't control. How do you
(21:47):
approach that this is you'relooking into how mentally people
rise up to occasions now peopleare probably listening thinking
oh, this guy's an alcoholicthat's how he copes and
functions No, no, I was so muchworse. I mean, I was briefly
mentioned to you earlier that Idid a sensory deprivation for
about two three months which iswhen I didn't leave the room
(22:08):
because I was just so wrapped upin my head when you left. Yeah,
and I didn't even leave my roomto go to the toilet I was doing
no How would use pissing inbottles things I talked to my
flatmates. There's somethingreally wrong there. You know, I
was filled with malice, hatred,hate myself hated everyone else
went really, really bright wing.
To the point that I was going toWhitehall and joining him at the
(22:31):
rallies there. It took me a longtime to sort of realise that it
was actually my own negativityleaching out into the world that
was making the world a shittyplace. I had to leave Croydon,
the place that made me sick.
Yeah, get better. I a lot ofpeople didn't understand that.
Because I tried everything inCroydon to make it work. But
(22:53):
sometimes you just have toleave. You have to go somewhere.
You have tolive. Yes, absolutely. And then
actually quick question, whichis, how's your battery? Because
I know you're on your mobilephone. Are we are we good for
battery or?
Right? Wherever you talkingabout during those days? It was
difficult. Right now. So thatmeans I mean, right that Mark
(23:16):
Yeah, rightnow it's great. Because I'm set
up at a b&b. I've been been herefor about a week now. Because
local mind representative lumpme in here. And it's been great.
It's been it's been greatbecause it makes it built trust
in the system again, becausebattery is not an issue at all.
I mean, also I have my my momsent my PC over. So you know,
(23:36):
I've got material goods, I'vegot battery, you know, and I'm
hoping I can find a place tostay here permanently.
Otherwise, I'm going to be backout again. And I don't mind
that. I don't mind that. But I'mgetting comfort again. I'm
getting complacent again.
Yeah. Well,I'm still figuring out you know,
tell me more about your, yourfeelings when when you're out in
(24:03):
the world. You saying that youdon't you didn't have a sort of
group of also homeless people.
Well, what we are experiencing,we are experiencing loneliness.
Where was your skill set? Didyou think that you could cope
(24:26):
and I was not alone. There'ssomething called the law of
averages that I found to besomething that kept me going
because you're constantlythinking about, oh, what am I
going to do next? What am Igoing to do next? You sleep, you
get up earlier and you'reconstantly doing something. And
because I was travelling, Iwasn't staying in one place and
more than three or four days. Iwould meet people I'm a very
(24:50):
social person I would approachpeople and I'll say hey, you
know my name is Tim I've beentravelling from here to here
they go well, that's reallycool, bro. Have some food. Yeah,
you know, to everyone. I know, Ihad so many positive moments
with so many people and I madeso many genuine friends because
(25:10):
the people I meet out in theworld wanted to get away from
the sea. So I wasn't hearingabout the news. I wasn't hearing
about Corona everyone was tryingto escape from we were on the
same level. And here we were, itdidn't matter. I wasn't alone.
Never at any point was I wasmore lonely surrounded by people
in the sea than I was out there.
(25:32):
strangers, strangers, that thethe quality of people that you
meet is completely different. Idon't know, if you've been to
any of the bushcraft meats orshows, particularly the bush
craft make you walk in. Andliterally everybody is not the
(25:59):
same as such, but has the sameoutdoor mentality. They are
giving. They're giving skills,they're saving skills, they are
humble and they have genuine andit just it doesn't work that
sort of when you actuallyoutdoors. Now don't give me on
(26:21):
armchair experts. These are myleast favourite people. They the
armchair expert, that tells somany people on their vastly huge
YouTube channel. Yeah, howsomething works. And then they
(26:42):
obviously doesn'tWell, it's not instructional as
a form of passive aggressive,aggressive behaviour. And
they're just trying to set itupon everyone is like no, we're
just genuine Pete I mean, Inoticed that the Polish labby
forum is the one that I havejoined I haven't got much
experience like yourself inengaging with these kinds of
groups before because it's newto me, but everyone on there
doesn't have money to buy one ofthose. Cynthia what they called
(27:04):
observe a sniper that is thatthey're going for the two Poncho
things you know for Yeah. Andthey're all like passionate
about this and it's sort of aninside joke is like Oh cool.
Cool level, bro. Like Yeah,thanks. You know, just nice to
each other. Yeah. And I lovethat I love that genuine people.
(27:24):
And then you get you get someonewho would post something every
now and then it's like, they'vegot all the care they've got a
Land Rover Defender with one ofthose roofs that goes up and
yeah, like how many times a yeardo you take this? This house out
that you have a witness? Andthey're like, Oh, just for a day
I don't even sleep in it. Oh,here's my wife. I hate you. I
(27:47):
hate you. You don't say it youdon't say it because of course
no course No. Um Okay, so we'reon our way to what was the How
long did it take you to get toto notice let alone um I mean
yeah, soI mean I was very distracted in
New York at this point. I stillhad savings and I was I was
(28:09):
going left right there for I wasgoing to halls to get the master
rope experience and then thatwas closed and I'll be fine. You
know, it goes to Wensleydale andthey'll go Oh get some cheese.
And it turns out that WednesdayDale isn't even got the gift
shop in Wednesdays in Hall solike Fox so go back to halls and
then that's close and like shit.
So I go back to Wednesday downand I find out that they use
(28:31):
European milk in the firstplace. So I'm not going to get
the genuine experience. Youknow, it's a lot of plastic
culture and these sort oftourism parts where they're
like, Hey, you come here you getthat real genuine experience.
But you only get that when youactually leave the trap.
Do you know what I try neverreally understood why. Someone
put cranberries in Wensleydaleand it became so popular just
(28:55):
like white Stilton with apricotthe are these strange staples
market magic cranberries.
So again,you have a problem with
cranberries.
No I it's I've been to theWensleydale cheese okay yeah
it's a there's like 100different is Wednesday day will
with onions and Wensleydale withstrawberry ice cream and all
(29:19):
these things is that whycranberries are why only
cranberriesI mean it's just it's like an
American influence because it'sactually bought out by the
Texans Believe it or not so Iimagine they got their
Thanksgiving projects shippedover and that's it know where
these things you know eventsOkay, so we're on we're on our
way What? What are we learning?
(29:43):
What do we say what what key Areyou acquiring? What kit Are you
getting rid of? How are youlearning?
These I'll show you the bestdamn thing I bought. It was only
15 quid. I'm using it as a sortof turning my regular wooden
chair into an armchair is thetop seven Magnus you see here?
Oh, I absolutely love it. It'salso a great meditation blanket.
(30:07):
Yeah, I mean, I had all theseground mats and they pop the air
once a pop, you know, I mean,but this is just extra space.
But heavier bass is the best.
Yeah.
That's that's the thing thatpeople moan about the go, Oh,
no, it's got to be lightweight,it's got to be expensive. It's
got to be lightweight, it'sexpensive. And I admit that my
my stuff, it's not ultralightweight, but it's
(30:29):
lightweight enough that I cancarry it for 100 out for a mile
with all fishing gear, andsometimes some of the client
gear because they can't carryit. I
and that is the crazy thing.
Before I've set out. I've beentraining myself with weighted
backpacks just to give myselfexercise outside of the gym. My
(30:50):
idea was that I was going tocarry as much weight as I could,
because I want to do everything.
There was a point and this iswhen I told my rotary calf and
sprained two ankles that Iactually strapped together to 65
litre bags, because I wasadvertised was advertised as 120
litres. I got 65 it was that 20pounds and these brand one,
(31:16):
which is just too good to betrue. So I just I lump the two
together. And I had a stove onme as well. And a spade. So So I
mean, I was going about 1015miles with insane amounts of
care. People say Look, you'reskinny, but I know I'll take my
top off and then look, myshoulder muscles are up to here,
you know, it was physically verydemanding process. And it was
(31:39):
the rewarding factor of that atthe end of the day collapsing
each and every day, you know,and that's why the alcohol helps
as well because it's painful.
Your body doesn't have time torest. You're moving constantly.
And it was only when I stoppedmoving. Every now and then I
realised how much I was puttingmy body through. And the mind
became stronger during that. Itdidn't become weaker, it became
(31:59):
stronger. Yeah, and I'm veryhappy. I like David Goggins. I
like Jordan Peterson. I like allthese inspirational people and
listening to them absorbingthem, and it's all connected.
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk aboutmental resilience. The the
(32:19):
problems you were facing, how?
How did your mindset change onon your journey? What do you
what do you feel that you youhad you had to shed or that you
had to acquire in order to carryon without falling into a pit of
(32:43):
alcohol or giving up orreturning to society because
it's too difficult? Well, whatwas I gave up, I gave up I said,
there's no future for me. I'mjust gonna keep pushing myself
till I die. But I was very, veryvocal about that. I had someone
(33:04):
in my family messaged me onFacebook and she's like, just
get a job. I've been applyingtrying to get a job for a very
long time. At this point. I wasangry. So I said, Listen, I'm
doing what I'm setting out todo. My she's married to my
grandpa my grandpa is the nextFormula One driver His name's
john brennan. You can check itout and Brands Hatch. I reached
out to him because I neverreally knew growing up and he
(33:24):
said to me, 10 there's one thingelse Brittany's do, we say what
we're going to do. And if yousay you're going to do
something, you do it. And healso taught me to know my worth.
He said, You know, I knew myworth from a young age I left
this job they didn't pay meenough. And hearing this a man's
advice because I mean the amountof hours to just don't grow up
with decent advice fromolder people. Yeah,
(33:49):
I mean the fact that you'reyou're 20 years your junior and
you're still listening to mestill interviewing me that that
means a lot because how am Imeant to learn what's in my
head? If it's right or wrong? IfI'm not allowed to speak it and
have someone listen to it?
That's the learning curve. I'vestill get things wrong all the
time. I'm still Oh, whodoesn't? Who doesn't get things
wrong? Who, who's who's so upthemselves? So they might say,
(34:10):
oh, I've got it. I'm an expert.
I've I have read all of this.
Yeah. I have momsare moms no doubt joking.
I've read all of this. I'veresearched I've been out there
I've practised. I've talked toexperts. I've I say I've
(34:36):
experimented I balls things up,because you will know that you
people will go Oh no, you don'tgrow through failure. It's like
you bloody do grow throughfailure. It's almost mandatory
to fail. When you sayI wasn't afraid of failing
because I knew at the end of theday that I'll be physically
(34:57):
tired and I can Pull back onthat I can say Well, hey, you
can criticise me from the otherside of that screen whilst I've
been outside breaking my back.
Yeah spraining my spraining myfeet you know, Terry mercury
cough getting dysentery frominfected Glen water. You can my
(35:18):
guts out moments you know, butoutnumbered by the positivity
and human kindness and yourexperience, you know is better
than anything?
I'm sure you familiar with wholofty Wiseman is?
No, never Oh, you've no Tell meabout him.
lofty Wiseman wrote the SASsurvival Handbook, which was
(35:43):
like the seminal work onsurvival available to the
public. Okay. And it waspublished when I was 13. And I
ordered it from the bookshop andI queued, I was outside the
bookshop, when it opened to getthere. And um, yeah, it's, it's,
(36:08):
it's amazing. And it's in 19languages it's in. It was
Collins HarperCollins, bestseller, basically forever. And I
think it's number one or numbertwo, still in survival skills on
(36:29):
Amazon. But one of the versionsof it. I loved he now he's in
his 70s will still say, I'm notan expert. Don't call me an
expert.
Yeah, that's grass hungry,right? Yeah.
Do you think you can give thatbook to anyone who's homeless on
that forum? And we will go backto the beginning is I asked a
(36:49):
question on the wild campingforum. Anyone else homeless
here? And then the responses?
asked it. Yeah, yeah, that wasamazing,
right? Because I just got, Isee. Yeah. And then I didn't
clock that.
It really blew up. And thenthere was 130 and 140 comments
of people saying, if you're inthis area, reach out to me, I'll
(37:12):
give you a hotbed and thing Iwent to sleep that night feeling
fucking great, because I wasn'tneeding help and charity at that
point. Look, I'm in the b&b atthe moment, you know, I mean,
yeah. But I reckon like maybe,you know, if just one or two
people are gonna have a nicesleep that night, it was
something that I initiated, andI can't take credit for that.
Maybe, you know, but also allthe lovely people that reached
(37:34):
out these are bush survivalexperts. They know what the core
needs of a human being are.
Yeah, it's the perfect place fora homeless person to reach out
to effectively Absolutely. Imean, I got offered a LabVIEW 10
by some guy from your and I'llsay I'll do that's great. I love
lovies but I turned it downbecause I don't need it. You
know, I'm looking to stay herenow. I'm going to have a break.
(37:54):
I'm going to my cash I'm goingto save up. I'm going to be a
positive impact on thiscommunity. I've already reached
out to do some voluntarylocally, and I've been helping a
boy on my halls apply for jobshe's just out of the clanger so
I mean I've tried to keep asactive as possible and
especially after the worldbecause your brains like I've
(38:16):
claimed Penny van twice in thelast two days The first time was
hard enough because it was in mykit. The second time I didn't
want to do it, but I saw thisguy just out of prison I'm like
thought he's dead his eyes woulddead man and he was like yeah,
I'm gonna go back into drugs youknow all that shit. I was like,
fuck you're coming with me. AndI took him up that mountain.
Yeah, we have to turn back nearthe last 40 foot because at this
(38:38):
point darkness has started todescend and it's very vertical
climb from Bracken and I didn'twant to be responsible for
anything bad happening someoneelse so I said we'll turn back
we'll climb again on Friday andsometimes you have to be
sensible you know?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely thesearch and rescue operative
(39:00):
which I did for many years whilethe yeah it's okay to just go
into the day it really really isbeing mindful of problems this
sort of situational awareness ofwhat the problems could be with
(39:25):
just sunset yeah that's that's alovely Oh, if you've ever tried
in the middle of nowhere and I'msure you have in the middle of
the nowhere gone you know whatit's got a bit dark probably
should like fire. Oh god.
Yeah. Funnily enough, then abouta week ago, I've been in this
(39:48):
b&b for two or three nights andI had another extended family
member Cheran talents, mycredibility online.
And I set out again,I was like, Fuck this. I'm going
back out. It's about 10 miles atthis point so as I said, I'm
gonna walk to Aberystwyth frombreckin walk and then I'm gonna
follow the coast back toScotland to Harris where there's
(40:11):
less light pollution I can youknow see Sagittarius out on my
birthday or something like thatyou know i mean i found some
toilet blocks and then the referasked down here like 3045 foot
drop at its pitch back on my oldtoilet box I don't have to do a
slippery shear on the log in themorning camp here so I climb
over the sort of road theblockade to the descent on the
(40:35):
river OS and right right it'spretty dark and I got all my kit
on my stove and shit I'm likefelt this stupid but anyway I'll
go with it. Do some Tarzan sharegrab some vines you know start
pouring down I had the foresightto grab two vines. Because you
know, one always breaks one onedid not break but it's sort of
snagged when it loosens on oneside or like five and my cat
(40:56):
swinging I'm aiming for a rockyoutcrop This is at a point of
view where the rivers completelyoverflowing it's like death
before the I'm a fire signaquarium does not like me so I'm
slipping down on my house andI'm like oh fuck so this is
where I am no Mike no no justfocus you know here you'll be
(41:16):
fine. I did I managed to get onthis crop. And I get my goodie
bag out I set fire for it it wasbit wet but I had the foresight
to pack my alcohol Joe and a bitsheets Will you wrap it around
and log you get a mini sort ofIndiana Jones branch like we're
in scape style for you knowspicture so it's beautiful. And
then fall asleep. No tarp atthis point. So I'm like a
(41:38):
caterpillar my little bitty bearin my face Pocono snug, but then
you know, 40 foot droplets fromtrees giving me a waterboarding
process. The whole night is fun.
Wake up in the morning, fourhours back to the top and
there's a lady in the bakingbuddy band just looking like
what the fuck is going on withyou? Do you take car she's like
no, like, are you she's likewell have a coffee then. But how
(42:01):
many sugars she's satisfied? Oh,I'll take all of the saga.
I will take all of the second Iwill use them. And if you have
that Muscovado shit. I will takethat too. Yeah, it keeps you
going. keeps going. I never usedto like sugary things. But when
I started to push myself likethat you need it. People.
(42:21):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. AlthoughI remember, I was doing a
endurance walk. And that's the,this is where I discovered
people will say about hittingthe wall as a marathon Warner. I
was doing 100k walk for theBerkeley welfare trust. And
(42:44):
yeah, 6863 miles or something.
And then the last little first20 miles. I'm like, yeah, this
is a good hike. Yeah. Yeah. 40miles in. Yeah. It's like, yeah,
we're in the middle of thenight. Now. It's like three is
still walking beside God.
Actually, this is hard. Now whatwere you holding? Oh. 25 Li is
(43:09):
something like that. No, yeah,it wasn't much because we every
10 miles.
If it's a lot, if you're not,you have to break into it
slowly. And for you to just bustout with a 25 litre pack for
that distance is not easy, myfriend. I bet you felt it the
next day.
Oh, I felt all sorts the nextday. But yeah, we said 14 miles
(43:32):
is like, Oh, this is serious.
Yeah, this is this is like, I Ican I can stop now. I can't stop
now. Yeah, my bank brains tryingto generate all of these
excuses. As why I can stop.
(43:54):
Yeah. So Oh, yeah. You try tobest result? No, you didn't.
Yeah, you didnot. salutely everything you
could to get yourself to thatphysical point. Yeah. And that's
when you could go to sleep andyou can be in your own power.
You can stand in your own power.
And anyone comes at you thatnight and tries to discredit
what you do. They will bloodyknow how wrong they are. Not
(44:17):
afraid to stand up yourselfbecause you just stood up
yourself. 40 miles.
Yeah, 40 miles. Now we've gotanother 23 to do. Oh shit,
right. And yeah, there's there'sthree of it by now from for.
Yeah, my and yeah, this this isI yeah, sugar and painkillers is
(44:39):
basically how we're gettingthere. And there's this chap.
He's, he's we normally side byside. But he drops by a little
bit and he's on the phone to hiswife. Yeah, in tears. Yeah. And
we just, we're just going andgoing and going and we get it.
(44:59):
You've got 24 To do thisbeautiful, we got to come in
with the race courses. Just nearthe downs. southdowns
southdowns.
I know the one. Yeah, like,yeah,
Petersfield too. So anyway,there's a there's a race course.
(45:20):
And that's where you finish. Andyou can see the clock. And we
are we are in the last minute.
Because we just pause thecalculations up, complete. Yeah.
Yeah, we're in the last minute.
And I've got the photos to proveit that we sprinted. Yeah, we
(45:44):
sprinted the last 50 metres andI've got a certificate that says
23 hours, 59 minutes and 56seconds or whatever it was.
Your body is just took over atthat point, your mind. Feel mind
and body big.
brother and I, when I reachedwhen I reached another softer
(46:05):
walk in 400 500 miles, I didn'trest. I woke up that morning and
I climbed my initial plan was toclimate free times and do the
free peak challenge because Idon't drive. But I ended up just
going up as quick as I could.
And you know, I've got thistomorrow, cough sprained ankle
(46:26):
as well. So I thought I'd do itmy kit. And I was half
clambering scrambling up going,and I did it. 140 minutes with
my injuries to the summit. And Iburst into tears. And it's like,
what you just went through whenyou're going that last sprint?
Yeah, I it becomes almostbliss. Oh, endorphins much?
Yeah. Yeah,absolutely. As an ex Otto, is
(46:50):
the best hire you ever get isyou can stand in your truth. And
you know that you did your bestto get there.
Yeah. And I was at the end. Andthere's there's a left hand and,
and they can give us med medals.
And this little place to standon. And I'm just like, Do I have
(47:11):
to? Yeah, yes, you do. It saysyou fall into? Yeah. And yeah,
just getting that leg up. ontothat, please. Because in my mind
I, I had finished. Yeah. And nowit's like, I've already gone
(47:32):
through carrying on. And nowit's, oh, no, we've not
finished. And just that step.
And it's that experience fromthen on. I did it five times.
We'll just catch. Yeah.
(47:56):
DAF told me what carrying on waswhat exhaustion was. What giving
everything is, and then how youcan just give yourself loads
loads of excuses. Yeah, it mightbe Oh, yeah. I'm homeless. I'm,
(48:19):
I'm an alcoholic. I might aswell just take heroin out. Oh, I
might be so it's okay. I did mybest or this or that. It could
be anything. But it's thisexcuses. Yeah, it took me it
took me years to realise thatthis was a thing in my head.
That I had to have a word withmyself, because it's impossible
(48:41):
to be accountable to yourself.
Because you've I'll tellyou what, what when I started to
make big changes in my life, I'dalready given up inside I was
actually just trying to act. Iwas trying to pretend that I was
over. I faked it. I faked beinghappy. I faked being a positive
role model to members of myfamily, younger ones who were in
drugs and whatnot. You know, Iwas faking it. I was dead
(49:05):
inside. But then slowly overtime, I started to actually
resemble the mask I was puttingon in a good way. And then it
started to become the I startedbecoming this positive guy who
wasn't sleeping half a day andpaying on the computer or all
the time. You know, I was I wasgetting out there. I was pushing
myself I was training forswimathon I was going to the gym
every day. I went from 15 to 11it was a tricky tricky thing. It
(49:27):
was once once you stoppretending it's easy because
you're at the back you'rethinking home so full of shit,
you know? We go so shit and Iunderstand why I'm really
irritating this person in thepub because obviously it's all
Me, me me. This is what I'mdoing about my life to get
there. What are you doing?
(49:50):
You're not doing it to benefitfrom other people's displeasure.
You're doing it to prove thatyou can change and that's what
happened slowly over time. Isthe make or break moment I
decided to just put on the mask?
Pretend? Yeah. And I don'tsometimes worry that if I get
complacent again, I'll returnback to that. But I think after
(50:11):
going this far, I don't thinkI'll ever let that happen again,
ever. Yeah, it's like when youstand on that plinth, and you
take that photo, you can lookback at that. And you can say,
yeah, I've done that. I've donethat.
This is something monumentalabout bursting into tears at
(50:32):
something. And I've had peopleon courses in tears,
because they are just speakingof bursting into tears. I think
the landlord I've left a load ofmy washing in the bathtub, and
we got new people coming overit. really got to wrap this up
like, Yeah,of course. Of course. Um, let me
let me just let me just finishoff with a couple of things
(50:56):
then. So you've you've overcomea lot mentally, then you've
learned a lot of skills. Do youthink that now you could do any
amount of outdoors anywhere inthe world? What would how how
(51:16):
are you bound now?
aspirations for the future?
Well, there's the paralysing,but there's also I want to climb
Everest, I want to do this. Iwant to do that. I mean, I
initially wanted to do wintercamping so that I could train
myself for even harsherenvironments. Yeah, some people
are like, Oh, isn't that harshenough? It's like yeah, I've
(51:37):
done courses of minus 10. Andthat separates people.
Yeah, it does. But you know whatalso separates me from minus 10
is my Arctic sleeping bag, soI'll be bouncing bomb one ones.
Oh, I've gota stuck pack. Which is
apparently good optimizer. 17.
And then I've got the duckSpivey and then, but that sounds
(51:59):
good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Okay, so before you before you,thin out. You got anything to
say. For people who are homelesspeople who need citizen skills?
Yeah. ration just just hit it.
(52:21):
If you're in a city and you'rehomeless, you can keep your
dignity by getting out in thewild. That's all I've got
to say. Brilliant. Brilliant. Soit's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for taking the timethey have to. We had a nightmare
getting zoom together. Thank youfor sticking with
(52:41):
Yeah, but what followed was thejury my friend.
So what I'm gonna say is anycomments or questions that
people might have orexperiences, find them in the
comments, and one or both of usor other people might answer
those or get in touch or reachout in some way. But for now,
(53:08):
thanks for watching. Thanks forcoming on to me, and thank you.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
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