November 10, 2025 • 29 mins
Cry It Out Loud by Chasing the Rainbows is a compassionate, unfiltered podcast for anyone navigating grief, trauma, infertility, miscarriage, stillbirth, pregnancy loss, or infant loss. Each episode brings together heartfelt storytelling, expert insight, and real conversations that break the silence around life after loss.
Hosted by a loss parent from the nonprofit Chasing the Rainbows, this podcast creates a safe space to cry, heal, and find hope together. Featuring leading voices in reproductive health, grief counseling, and mental wellness — including experts like Dr. Roohi Jeelani of Kindbody, a double board-certified Reproductive Endocrinologist and Infertility Specialist. Cry It Out Loud explores the emotions behind trying to conceive after loss, living with infertility, and redefining parenthood after heartbreak.
Whether you’re seeking comfort after a miscarriage, strength through infertility treatments, or connection following stillbirth or infant loss, this podcast is your reminder that every loss matters and every story deserves to be heard.
Topics include:• Infertility & IVF journeys• Miscarriage & stillbirth support• Pregnancy & infant loss awareness• Healing after trauma and grief• Mental health, resilience & hope after loss• Pregnancy after loss & rainbow baby stories
💗 Get involved, volunteer, or donate in honor of a baby at BabyLossAwareness.org. Every contribution helps Chasing the Rainbows provide free support services to families navigating infertility, pregnancy loss, and infant loss.
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(00:11):
Crying out loud a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows.
With your host. Bernice Quisenberry.
Welcome back to Cry It Out Loud,a podcast by Chasing the
Rainbows, where we give voice tothe stories that often go
(00:31):
unheard. Stories of infertility,
pregnancy loss, and the journey of rebuilding hope after
heartbreak. October is Pregnancy and Infant
Loss Awareness Month, a time to honor every story and every
family whose path to parenthood hasn't gone as planned.
Because every loss matters. Today, we're honored to welcome
someone who not only helps families navigate these deeply
(00:52):
personal challenges every singleday, but who has also walked
through her own Rd. through infertility, Dr. Ruhi Jelani and
Ruhi is a double board certifiedreproductive endocrinologist and
infertility specialist and the Chief medical Officer for growth
and business development. She's widely respected in her
(01:12):
field for advancing women's reproductive health and bringing
empathy and innovation together and care.
Today, she joins us to walk and talk about her own infertility
journey, what she's learned through science and personal
experience, and how compassion and awareness can change the way
we support one another through loss and hope.
Thank you so much Ruhi, for being here.
(01:35):
Course, thank you for having me and letting me talk and share my
journey and story both as a patient and a doctor.
It means a lot. Absolutely, and it means so much
and I can't, you know, let's dive right in and have you
share, you know, your your journey with everyone to hear.
Yeah, so I was diagnosed with PCOS when I was very young.
(01:57):
I was roughly about 14 when my mom took me to a reproductive
endocrinologist to figure out what was wrong with me after
she'd failed to get answers witha pediatrician.
So finally, she decided, let's, let's do this, Let's figure it
out. And I remember the doctor walked
in and said, you know, you're going to need a little bit of
help. And that stuck with me that I'm
(02:18):
like, OK, I'm going to need a little bit of help.
She's like, you're going to pop a pill and it's going to be
perfect. So I was really not prepared for
what my journey would entail. It's almost in denial that I, I
knew the data from just having been through residency and
learning this day in and day out.
But you know, sometimes you see it, but you need to believe it.
(02:41):
And I was having a hard time connecting the dots, treating
myself essentially. So I ended up seeing a fertility
specialist. We started trying after a couple
years after we got married and not much luck.
So we failed a lot of ovulation induction cycles.
We failed a lot of IUI, had a lot of biochemical pregnancy
(03:04):
losses, some miscarriages, and finally went on to multiple
rounds of IVF before finally having my son good four to five
years after. Oh wow.
So geez. I mean years and years and being
told early on too, as a teenage young woman, you know that this
(03:28):
is your reality in the future. But also that false hope because
you take a pill, you'll be fine,everything's going to be great.
And it wasn't. And, you know, loss after loss,
it's all that reoccurring traumathat just keeps happening.
Yeah. And knowing, you know, what's
happening from a scientific standpoint.
And this I can't even imagine. Yeah, it was, it was definitely
(03:50):
hard and it was hard to separate.
It was easy to keep them separated and not combine them
because, you know, you just wantwhat you want.
So like, well, this is, this is what it's supposed to be.
Like if this is the only missing, I have PCOS.
So if you're only missing ovulation, then why isn't this
working? So I, I use that story in that
(04:11):
journey to really counsel my patients to say, you know, like,
you never know, like you don't know what happens.
And it's a probability game whenit comes to this, like it's
truly utilization of numbers andscience and data to combine to
get the solution or hopefully close to answers or help build
families. Wow.
(04:31):
Yeah. Now with your journey, how many
rounds of IVF did you guys have to do to, you know, get to where
you were? Yeah, well, right now I have 3
kids and I've done total 19 cycles, a lot of cycles now
consecutively. The reason it took so much
(04:53):
longer is because as a patient Itook a lot of breaks, both due
to the emotional, the physical and financial toll it was.
We were both really young. We just graduated professional
schools, You know, I was still in training.
My husband was building his firm.
So it was. And we moved to Detroit the year
(05:16):
Detroit filed bankruptcy. So it was not, it was not a good
mix of anything. So that took a long time to.
We braced ourselves to, you know, stop, go, start when we
were ready. So that journey took a while.
Yeah. My goodness.
And infertility is often, you know, I talked about clinically,
(05:38):
but not in such an emotional, itis such an emotional and
isolating experience. How did you navigate the balance
between being a physician and also being a patient?
It was really easy because I wasso young in my career that I
automatically kind of checked itoff to, you know, better.
But on the yeah, but on the other side, I would turn to
(06:03):
remember back then, social mediawasn't really big.
These are now like your early, like your mid 2000s.
So I'd be on these Reddit forumsand I would literally be like
swiping and trying to read people's journeys and like
looking at PCOS and what did other people do?
And it kind of sucked because I would literally like under the
cover hide and my husband, like,Are you sure you're really a
(06:25):
doctor? Like, what do you do in
residency? What are you doing?
Like, how do you not know this? And it's just because, yeah,
PCOS is so different and so different for everybody.
And no one in my family had gonethrough this.
All right? So then, like, people were
questioning me, like, like, internally family members, like,
what's wrong? We don't have this in our
family. It must not be genetic.
(06:47):
And then that made me question myself.
And I didn't know enough about it to confidently, you know,
give a research driven answer. So I was like, well, it must be
something I'm doing wrong. Let me figure out what others
are doing. And then there was not enough
information available on the webor data for me to even question
my doctor. So I still remember, like, I'd
(07:09):
get frustrated, then I would leave the clinic, then I'd get,
you know, try again, Then I'd get frustrated, then I would
leave to another clinic because I just didn't feel like, you
know, and I didn't understand what was happening.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's, you know, we talk
about that a lot in support group, finding a clinic, finding
a Doctor Who actually listens and hears you and then also is
(07:31):
willing to try different things or educate you on why not.
Because now with social media being so readily available and
you know, unfortunately not everything on there is
authentic. So, you know, educate and
advocate is so great for yourself.
But, you know, also, I think trying different things or you
(07:51):
know, maybe protocols that are different, you know, based on
each patient and based on what they're dealing with.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Is there anything that you tried, you know, during that
like different things that you, you tried, you know, during your
whole journey that is either different or you know, anything
(08:14):
out out of the norm I guess. Yeah, so my, and I would say for
my son's journey, I kind of justleft it up to you guys, tell me
what to do and I'll follow suit.Then I had my daughter very
spontaneously, my second one andthen my last one, I tried a lot
(08:35):
of different stuff. So my son, I was at institutions
and organizations where people weren't willing to kind of like
this, the textbook this what we follow and if we follow it, it's
going to work. And if it doesn't work, then you
need donor egg or look into surrogacy or adoption, which are
all wonderful ways of building families, but those are really
(08:57):
expensive. Also, you know, no one talks
about that financial arm and it financially made it easier to
continue through fertility treatments, especially just
given age and time. So my son I had thankfully, but
I didn't have anything left. I had no embryos, nothing to go
back to. So for my even before I started
(09:20):
treatment, I was like, OK, well how do I get to continue to
build my family? What do I do?
So I was pumping in between, I was continuing my lifestyle
modifications. We like we're trying to
eliminate processed food. We're doing more fruits and
vegetables. I remember I started saying, OK,
if I'm PCOS, this is testosterone driven.
Let me cut out my carbs. So I was continuing all of that.
(09:43):
And then you know, lo and behold, ovulated and had my
daughter, which is amazing. But for my very last one, we
did, I did a lot of different stuff and she was my 8th.
You played transfer and my son was my ninth transfer.
So we this time ended up seeing a reproductive immunologist.
(10:08):
I ended up doing a lot of immunemeds and I I could see it where
someone would say, well, 9 transfers versus 7 transfers, 8
embryos and statistically different.
But you know, as a patient, sometimes trying to take that
control back of what you lose with infertility and trying to
get answers that that really helped me continue.
(10:30):
Like I the duration of treatmentand how quickly I went through
it was so much easier because I had a plan like I would fail and
I had a plan I, I knew I could adjust and fix.
And so even if sure statistically someone can argue,
well, it took you almost the same number of embryos, My
emotional well-being was much better.
(10:53):
I was much stronger knowing thathey, you have the ton and me to
adjust and course correct and stop.
And it really helped. It really helped how I could
regain some of that control. And you know, as opposed to put
your hands up in the air, there's nothing you can do.
Continue if you want to, or juststop.
(11:14):
Yeah, I know because a lot of times, you know, you do in the
moment you're feeling so defeated because it's just like
almost feels like bad news afterbad news, but almost hearing it
in this way too, you know, correcting it, trying something
different, still like hangs on to then having hope in those
moments. Yeah, 100%.
(11:35):
That was a form of hope. Like maybe if I do something
different I'll get closer. Yes, absolutely.
Now, so you mentioned to eating more vegetables and fruits,
toxins, processed food, and I know that you do a lot of
research, right? Am I speaking right on that?
But yes, I would love for you totalk about that more.
(11:58):
This is something and our household that we're really, you
know, big into, you know, just processed sugar, processed
foods, all of it, and trying to cut it and trying to do, you
know, fresh as best as as we can.
Yeah, yeah. It started actually stemming
from PCOS being multifactorial. So it's a little bit of your
genetics compounded with exposures and how you know what
(12:22):
you eat, how you live your life.And I would say look around and
like, although everyone in my family has the same genetics, my
mom is one of five sisters. Not only did they have their
kids much younger, but they wereraised in India, where you don't
have a lot of processed food or preservatives or hormones in
your fruits, vegetables, meats. So none of them, although the
(12:45):
same lineage, had infertility. Same with my cousins and my
sister. None of them have to experience
this. And I, when I look at my
lifestyle and their lifestyle, I, you know, live a really
stressful life. I'm the only one who decided to
go to postgraduate schooling andthe only one who decided to wait
till my late 20s, early 30s to have kids.
(13:09):
I, in order to stay awake, was doing a lot of like munching on
snacks, drinking a lot of sodas,you know, just not mindful of my
body. So my testosterone levels were
insane and my egg quality was horrible.
So that's when I was like, Oh myGod, this is a lot of
environmental variations. That's why I could come from the
(13:30):
same lineage but be exposed to different things and live a
different life. And it's going to impact me very
differently than it's going to impact my sisters or my cousins.
And it did, right? Like, no, no one in my family
has gone through this. And it's so you can't just blame
it to your PCOS and your genes. It's a lot of what I've put into
(13:51):
my body and how I've handled my body.
So I ended up doing a war hurt. It's a women's reproductive
health research grant through the NIH to look at toxin
exposure and the impact on that quality, embryo development,
genetics. And they did that for a couple
years. So I looked at byproducts.
It started initially with chemotherapy exposure, but if
(14:14):
you actually look at the dry products for the big breakdown
of chemotherapy, one of them being acrylene is something that
you find in the air with pollution.
You find it with second hand smoke, you find it with
microplastics, a new microwave, it's that same compound.
And then there's a dose dependent relationship, right?
Like I literally think of that and I look at what I ate in
(14:36):
college and in Med school. I would take my frozen meals,
microwave all those plastics, and then eat out of that.
Yeah, right. And that's what I ate three
times a day. And I would warm up my coffee
and my plastic cup, and then I would drink out of that.
So it's all of this. And it's cumulative effect that
it compounds and accumulates over time.
(14:59):
And I know, and that's the same reason why not only do I
advocate for living a healthier life and doing stuff that's more
sustainable. I'm so glad that you mentioned
earlier that you're starting to try to do this in your family
because that's important. That's what I tell my patients,
that this is not going to be an overnight thing, that the more
you look at this, it's everywhere.
(15:20):
It's not only in your like your daily shampoo and your face
washes, but it's in your makeup,it's in your food, it's in your
clothing, it's everywhere. So make changes that are
sustainable and slowly start looking at this stuff.
Not like an overnight, I'm goingto eliminate everything because
it is going to be hard to eliminate.
Like there's so much exposure tothis constantly day in and day
(15:44):
out. Yes, yes, and I mean how we did
it very scalable is we started with Tupperware containers and
we got Pyrex, you know, versus the the plastic.
And it was all through infertility journey and being
educated and just doing researchand things like that.
And then also right, like what we drink out of what we, so even
(16:05):
making our own laundry detergentis actually very easy to do and
your own dishwashing soap and things like that, you know,
using organic matters and you know, just doing different
things that like you're saying is very scalable.
Or you can even buy and purchasethose items already made.
I just found for us, it was cheaper and easier for us to do,
(16:26):
for me to make it with differentrecipes and things like that.
But right, it's like, you know, your skins are largest and like,
what am I putting on my face? What am I exposing my body to?
Yeah. But definitely agree.
I think it's so important what you're doing and 100%, you know,
that's one of the biggest concerns my patients have, that
it's going to be really hard. It's going to be so expensive.
(16:49):
But I'm so glad that you broughtthat up.
Yeah, yeah. Because it can be scalable and
you know, we shop at Trader Joe's, it's a you can get a lot
of organic products in there very cheap compared to, you
know, other big box stores where, you know, it does cost a
lot for organic products, but orlike finding coupons or you
(17:09):
know, doing things like that. But there's ways to do it or
farmers markets and things like that too.
Yeah. It's so true.
Yeah, and it's. So it just goes to show you that
little changes like this can go a very long way.
Right, right now, what in the immunology space do you work on
(17:30):
and study within that too? I would love to say that I'm
well versed in this and I know alittle bit more, but there's no
official fellowship. They're starting an official
fellowship and I would love to learn more about it.
And I do think it does play a role with implantation and
pregnancy loss, especially as wenavigate this month.
(17:54):
It's so important to know that there's still research being
done, right? The hardest thing as a doctor is
to say I'm not sure what to do for you it.
And it sucks because it sucks because I don't want anyone to
ever think I'm giving up on them.
And it sucks because I was that patient where they said, well,
can't do anything else, you know?
(18:14):
So it's either you try the same thing and continue to lose, or
you move on to your next and build your family a different
way. And I don't think there's
anything wrong with that, but I just wanted to know my why.
So I did my best to learn the stuff on my own, to understand
the role of new innovation and how it's applicable to
(18:37):
optimizing outcome. What can I do differently for my
patients? What can Ioffer them?
That may be the solution, and maybe it's not a solution, but
long as it's not hurting them, why don't I add it on and try,
right? Like that's what I wanted.
Like if I'm not hurting myself, why can't we add it?
And I remember one time really thinking like, if you tell me to
(18:59):
go lick a toilet, I will. If you tell me to go drink that
water, I will. I don't care what it is like.
Help me. Help me figure out my body.
Help me figure out how I can getwhere I want to get.
Absolutely. And I think thoroughly looking
over everything and looking at labs, looking at genetic
testing, all of it, it was so important in these in this time
(19:21):
too. Yeah, and like understanding and
I know like I Ioffer a mock cycle like understanding your
like your vaginal microbiome, understanding inflammatory
markers, understanding antibodies, like there has to be
a reason they exist, right? It's now let's figure out how to
(19:42):
interpret them. Absolutely.
And using them practically to continue, yes.
Yeah, and it just, it brings me a lot of joy to help solve and
get my patients where I want them to be.
And the text messages I get, I mean, that's what keeps me
going, right? The to be a forever part of
(20:05):
somebody's life and story is such an honor.
And just you have that empathetic and, you know,
passionate heart because you've walked this journey and that's,
you know, rare to find when we're on it.
Yeah, yeah, I think it. I definitely think it makes a
difference. And, you know, I may not be the
(20:26):
right doctor for everyone, but Ireally try to help my patients
understand their, their body, their data, their numbers.
And I always say we're A-Team, right?
Like, it's not, I'm not the authority.
And fertility is such a wild type of medicine, right?
It's not like, it's not like a high blood pressure, like you
have this and you take this and I'm going to solve it.
(20:47):
And like it's completely different.
It's a little bit of my science,a little bit of hope, and you
know, a lot of just what your body gives us and can call it my
magic. So it's literally like a
combination of the three to comeup with the best plan for you.
And hearing that it's a team because it really does take the
(21:08):
village, you know, when you're on this, but also, you know,
having like your future and, youknow, your hands and our baby's
future in your hands. And feeling like, you know, we
can talk through and really workthrough anything together and
ask those difficult questions and also experience the
difficult losses that can go hand in hand with this.
(21:30):
Yeah, for sure. And you have to feel comfortable
with who you're with. And I think you made a great
point that you know, and not every clinic and not every
doctor is going to be the right one for you.
Yeah. So I think, you know, making
sure that you is it OK to interview doctors and, you know,
figure out who is a good fit and. 100% And whenever I get
(21:54):
like I do a lot of Q and as on my social media, I always get
asked when is the right time to get a second opinion.
And for me is if you're asking that question, you're already
starting to doubt your plan of care or where you are and how
you're feeling. That's that time.
And as a doctor, I always encourage my patients like, you
know, get a second opinion, hearit out.
(22:15):
Because everyone practices this a little bit differently because
we don't have and you also don'twant the bread, Bread and
butter. This is your age.
This is what we do because everyone's body is different.
We're all built a little bit differently.
Absolutely. And that is extremely important
that you're looked at not just as the number and statistic, but
you're looked at individually. And I love how you said that
(22:36):
even earlier too in the conversation, Like, let's look
at your numbers. Let's look at you as an
individual and then come up withyour protocol, you know?
Yeah, 100%. It's so important and no doctor
should get offended with a second opinion.
I know I encourage it and I knowmy friends do too.
You know, this is our guys a very small world, as I'm sure
you see, we all know each other,we love each other.
(22:59):
And I don't, you know, I think there's, we just want what's
best for our patients. Right.
And what's even interesting is too, if you do get a second
opinion and they give you the same feedback that you had from
your previous doctor, then it's like, OK, we're in line.
Great. Like, I just feel better and
reassured that what we're about to do and what we're about to
(23:20):
invest in because, you know, sometimes you are maxing out
credit cards, you are taking outsecond mortgages, You are, you
know, doing everything in your power to afford these services
if they're not covered in your state or by your employer.
So you know you're going to those extremes and you want to
make sure that you are putting your best foot forward and
controlling what you can in those moments, but also feeling
(23:40):
confident in it. Yes, for sure, 100%.
I think that is so important. Yeah.
So what were, you know, some of the challenges and emotions that
you didn't expect to experience when you were on your own
journey and now have helped yourpatients with?
(24:02):
Yeah, I think the most challenging part was
relinquishing control. I'm a control freak and I, yeah.
And I, I know my own weaknesses.Like I, it was so hard for me to
be like, OK, I just have to waitit out.
And even with like, I still remember this is so eye opening.
(24:22):
When I was first doing ovulationinduction and design wise, and I
remember I was like, but why isn't it working?
Like I see my lining, I see my follicle, I see the sperm, I see
where you're putting it. We're following all the steps.
And why isn't it working like over and over and over again?
And I remember my doctor literally saying like, hey,
(24:43):
remember when I told you that this is only like 15% success?
And I was like, yeah, but I see it.
And he goes, yeah, he's like, I'm going to flip it now.
It's there's an 80 to 90% chancethis is not working.
And I was like, oh, and I was like that like, you know, it was
so crazy because he, he just thought he said the same thing,
(25:04):
but he said it a different way. And I was like, wow, that makes
so much more sense. Like the odds are not in my
favor, right? And it, I couldn't get it
because once again, the control freak in me was like, but I'm
doing everything I'm supposed toand I'm following what I'm
supposed to do. And I see it.
And you almost have to be right.Like in school, you're like, you
(25:25):
do XYZ. This is how you, where you get.
And that's why I think it's so important to remember fertility
is a combination of variables and not just your normal
medicines, especially like for asurgeon where you like cut and
you get the end result immediately.
That's not, that's not what it happens when it comes to your
(25:45):
fertility journey. And I think that was the hardest
thing as a patient to you can put all the effort and
unfortunately it's it's not you,you're not causing this.
Yeah, that's such a great reminder.
Goodness, You know, looking forward, what gives you hope for
the future, for reproductive medicine and the families you
(26:08):
serve? Innovation.
I love new stuff. I love being able to tell my
patients that there's more that you haven't done because I hate
it when somebody told me, sorry,you've done everything and
you're that's it. Like keep trying and I get it,
(26:29):
it's a probability, but give me something different.
Tell me that there's going to bea break to breakthrough.
Tell me that, you know, whateverit is, that there's hope for
more and like you sent you some bit so perfectly earlier that it
gives you hope. So for me, innovation equals
opportunity and hope for those who are starting to lose it.
(26:49):
Wow. Amazing it was just and it's
really comforting to hear that we're not just staying here,
right, We're not just stagnant as a society.
You know, doctors like we're going out doing research finding
because I think something hard too when you're experiencing the
losses alongside and hearing, you know, you lost an early term
(27:12):
baby and you know, the medical terms like chemical pregnancy,
all those things. But in the end it's a baby and
it's like that, you know, hits the family hard.
And when there's not a reason why you lost the baby,
especially reoccurring pregnancyloss and you look at that and
that's a part of infertility andnot getting those answers.
(27:32):
It can be. It's so hard because the chain
blame and guilt that us birthingpeople hold on to Yeah for.
Sure, like always reflecting. Like I wish I could go back.
I wish I could have done it differently.
You know that soft blame game ishorrible.
Yes, absolutely. What would you like to leave our
(27:54):
listeners with? One piece of advice.
Yeah, if I would, if I could leave with one piece of advice
it that not, not every journey looks the same, whether it's you
comparing yourself to your friend or your first baby to
your second. Every journey is different.
(28:15):
And to give yourself grace because I was really, I remember
like every time I was like, whatdid I do wrong?
What could have done differently?
And you know, your friend circleor society or anybody doesn't
really help. Like are you sleeping?
Are you eating? Are you working too hard?
You know, so it it's not you, right?
(28:36):
Think of all everything outside of this infertility world.
It's so hard to finger point. So it's really nothing that
you're doing and you'll get there.
Everyone's journey looks different.
Ruhi, thank you so much for being on here today, for sharing
your journey, your experience, you know, in this field and it
(28:58):
just, it means so much to hear from you.
So thank you. Of course, thank you for having
me. Absolutely, you know, to our
listeners, whether you're in themiddle of your own fertility
journey, grieving a loss, or standing beside someone who is,
please know that you are not alone.
Chasing the Rainbows is here foryou every step of the way.
Visit babylossawareness.org to learn more about Every Loss
(29:20):
Matters campaign, community resources, and daily support
offerings for anyone living withinfertility, any type of
pregnancy loss, and infant loss.Because every loss matters, and
so does every story. Thank you so much again for
being here Ruhi, have a great day.
Thank you.
Crying out loud a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows.
With your host. Bernice Quisenberry.
Welcome back to Cry It Out Loud,a podcast by Chasing the
Rainbows, where we give voice tothe stories that often go
(00:31):
unheard. Stories of infertility,
pregnancy loss, and the journey of rebuilding hope after
heartbreak. October is Pregnancy and Infant
Loss Awareness Month, a time to honor every story and every
family whose path to parenthood hasn't gone as planned.
Because every loss matters. Today, we're honored to welcome
someone who not only helps families navigate these deeply
(00:52):
personal challenges every singleday, but who has also walked
through her own Rd. through infertility, Dr. Ruhi Jelani and
Ruhi is a double board certifiedreproductive endocrinologist and
infertility specialist and the Chief medical Officer for growth
and business development. She's widely respected in her
(01:12):
field for advancing women's reproductive health and bringing
empathy and innovation together and care.
Today, she joins us to walk and talk about her own infertility
journey, what she's learned through science and personal
experience, and how compassion and awareness can change the way
we support one another through loss and hope.
Thank you so much Ruhi, for being here.
(01:35):
Course, thank you for having me and letting me talk and share my
journey and story both as a patient and a doctor.
It means a lot. Absolutely, and it means so much
and I can't, you know, let's dive right in and have you
share, you know, your your journey with everyone to hear.
Yeah, so I was diagnosed with PCOS when I was very young.
(01:57):
I was roughly about 14 when my mom took me to a reproductive
endocrinologist to figure out what was wrong with me after
she'd failed to get answers witha pediatrician.
So finally, she decided, let's, let's do this, Let's figure it
out. And I remember the doctor walked
in and said, you know, you're going to need a little bit of
help. And that stuck with me that I'm
(02:18):
like, OK, I'm going to need a little bit of help.
She's like, you're going to pop a pill and it's going to be
perfect. So I was really not prepared for
what my journey would entail. It's almost in denial that I, I
knew the data from just having been through residency and
learning this day in and day out.
But you know, sometimes you see it, but you need to believe it.
(02:41):
And I was having a hard time connecting the dots, treating
myself essentially. So I ended up seeing a fertility
specialist. We started trying after a couple
years after we got married and not much luck.
So we failed a lot of ovulation induction cycles.
We failed a lot of IUI, had a lot of biochemical pregnancy
(03:04):
losses, some miscarriages, and finally went on to multiple
rounds of IVF before finally having my son good four to five
years after. Oh wow.
So geez. I mean years and years and being
told early on too, as a teenage young woman, you know that this
(03:28):
is your reality in the future. But also that false hope because
you take a pill, you'll be fine,everything's going to be great.
And it wasn't. And, you know, loss after loss,
it's all that reoccurring traumathat just keeps happening.
Yeah. And knowing, you know, what's
happening from a scientific standpoint.
And this I can't even imagine. Yeah, it was, it was definitely
(03:50):
hard and it was hard to separate.
It was easy to keep them separated and not combine them
because, you know, you just wantwhat you want.
So like, well, this is, this is what it's supposed to be.
Like if this is the only missing, I have PCOS.
So if you're only missing ovulation, then why isn't this
working? So I, I use that story in that
(04:11):
journey to really counsel my patients to say, you know, like,
you never know, like you don't know what happens.
And it's a probability game whenit comes to this, like it's
truly utilization of numbers andscience and data to combine to
get the solution or hopefully close to answers or help build
families. Wow.
(04:31):
Yeah. Now with your journey, how many
rounds of IVF did you guys have to do to, you know, get to where
you were? Yeah, well, right now I have 3
kids and I've done total 19 cycles, a lot of cycles now
consecutively. The reason it took so much
(04:53):
longer is because as a patient Itook a lot of breaks, both due
to the emotional, the physical and financial toll it was.
We were both really young. We just graduated professional
schools, You know, I was still in training.
My husband was building his firm.
So it was. And we moved to Detroit the year
(05:16):
Detroit filed bankruptcy. So it was not, it was not a good
mix of anything. So that took a long time to.
We braced ourselves to, you know, stop, go, start when we
were ready. So that journey took a while.
Yeah. My goodness.
And infertility is often, you know, I talked about clinically,
(05:38):
but not in such an emotional, itis such an emotional and
isolating experience. How did you navigate the balance
between being a physician and also being a patient?
It was really easy because I wasso young in my career that I
automatically kind of checked itoff to, you know, better.
But on the yeah, but on the other side, I would turn to
(06:03):
remember back then, social mediawasn't really big.
These are now like your early, like your mid 2000s.
So I'd be on these Reddit forumsand I would literally be like
swiping and trying to read people's journeys and like
looking at PCOS and what did other people do?
And it kind of sucked because I would literally like under the
cover hide and my husband, like,Are you sure you're really a
(06:25):
doctor? Like, what do you do in
residency? What are you doing?
Like, how do you not know this? And it's just because, yeah,
PCOS is so different and so different for everybody.
And no one in my family had gonethrough this.
All right? So then, like, people were
questioning me, like, like, internally family members, like,
what's wrong? We don't have this in our
family. It must not be genetic.
(06:47):
And then that made me question myself.
And I didn't know enough about it to confidently, you know,
give a research driven answer. So I was like, well, it must be
something I'm doing wrong. Let me figure out what others
are doing. And then there was not enough
information available on the webor data for me to even question
my doctor. So I still remember, like, I'd
(07:09):
get frustrated, then I would leave the clinic, then I'd get,
you know, try again, Then I'd get frustrated, then I would
leave to another clinic because I just didn't feel like, you
know, and I didn't understand what was happening.
Yeah, absolutely. And that's, you know, we talk
about that a lot in support group, finding a clinic, finding
a Doctor Who actually listens and hears you and then also is
(07:31):
willing to try different things or educate you on why not.
Because now with social media being so readily available and
you know, unfortunately not everything on there is
authentic. So, you know, educate and
advocate is so great for yourself.
But, you know, also, I think trying different things or you
(07:51):
know, maybe protocols that are different, you know, based on
each patient and based on what they're dealing with.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
Is there anything that you tried, you know, during that
like different things that you, you tried, you know, during your
whole journey that is either different or you know, anything
(08:14):
out out of the norm I guess. Yeah, so my, and I would say for
my son's journey, I kind of justleft it up to you guys, tell me
what to do and I'll follow suit.Then I had my daughter very
spontaneously, my second one andthen my last one, I tried a lot
(08:35):
of different stuff. So my son, I was at institutions
and organizations where people weren't willing to kind of like
this, the textbook this what we follow and if we follow it, it's
going to work. And if it doesn't work, then you
need donor egg or look into surrogacy or adoption, which are
all wonderful ways of building families, but those are really
(08:57):
expensive. Also, you know, no one talks
about that financial arm and it financially made it easier to
continue through fertility treatments, especially just
given age and time. So my son I had thankfully, but
I didn't have anything left. I had no embryos, nothing to go
back to. So for my even before I started
(09:20):
treatment, I was like, OK, well how do I get to continue to
build my family? What do I do?
So I was pumping in between, I was continuing my lifestyle
modifications. We like we're trying to
eliminate processed food. We're doing more fruits and
vegetables. I remember I started saying, OK,
if I'm PCOS, this is testosterone driven.
Let me cut out my carbs. So I was continuing all of that.
(09:43):
And then you know, lo and behold, ovulated and had my
daughter, which is amazing. But for my very last one, we
did, I did a lot of different stuff and she was my 8th.
You played transfer and my son was my ninth transfer.
So we this time ended up seeing a reproductive immunologist.
(10:08):
I ended up doing a lot of immunemeds and I I could see it where
someone would say, well, 9 transfers versus 7 transfers, 8
embryos and statistically different.
But you know, as a patient, sometimes trying to take that
control back of what you lose with infertility and trying to
get answers that that really helped me continue.
(10:30):
Like I the duration of treatmentand how quickly I went through
it was so much easier because I had a plan like I would fail and
I had a plan I, I knew I could adjust and fix.
And so even if sure statistically someone can argue,
well, it took you almost the same number of embryos, My
emotional well-being was much better.
(10:53):
I was much stronger knowing thathey, you have the ton and me to
adjust and course correct and stop.
And it really helped. It really helped how I could
regain some of that control. And you know, as opposed to put
your hands up in the air, there's nothing you can do.
Continue if you want to, or juststop.
(11:14):
Yeah, I know because a lot of times, you know, you do in the
moment you're feeling so defeated because it's just like
almost feels like bad news afterbad news, but almost hearing it
in this way too, you know, correcting it, trying something
different, still like hangs on to then having hope in those
moments. Yeah, 100%.
(11:35):
That was a form of hope. Like maybe if I do something
different I'll get closer. Yes, absolutely.
Now, so you mentioned to eating more vegetables and fruits,
toxins, processed food, and I know that you do a lot of
research, right? Am I speaking right on that?
But yes, I would love for you totalk about that more.
(11:58):
This is something and our household that we're really, you
know, big into, you know, just processed sugar, processed
foods, all of it, and trying to cut it and trying to do, you
know, fresh as best as as we can.
Yeah, yeah. It started actually stemming
from PCOS being multifactorial. So it's a little bit of your
genetics compounded with exposures and how you know what
(12:22):
you eat, how you live your life.And I would say look around and
like, although everyone in my family has the same genetics, my
mom is one of five sisters. Not only did they have their
kids much younger, but they wereraised in India, where you don't
have a lot of processed food or preservatives or hormones in
your fruits, vegetables, meats. So none of them, although the
(12:45):
same lineage, had infertility. Same with my cousins and my
sister. None of them have to experience
this. And I, when I look at my
lifestyle and their lifestyle, I, you know, live a really
stressful life. I'm the only one who decided to
go to postgraduate schooling andthe only one who decided to wait
till my late 20s, early 30s to have kids.
(13:09):
I, in order to stay awake, was doing a lot of like munching on
snacks, drinking a lot of sodas,you know, just not mindful of my
body. So my testosterone levels were
insane and my egg quality was horrible.
So that's when I was like, Oh myGod, this is a lot of
environmental variations. That's why I could come from the
(13:30):
same lineage but be exposed to different things and live a
different life. And it's going to impact me very
differently than it's going to impact my sisters or my cousins.
And it did, right? Like, no, no one in my family
has gone through this. And it's so you can't just blame
it to your PCOS and your genes. It's a lot of what I've put into
(13:51):
my body and how I've handled my body.
So I ended up doing a war hurt. It's a women's reproductive
health research grant through the NIH to look at toxin
exposure and the impact on that quality, embryo development,
genetics. And they did that for a couple
years. So I looked at byproducts.
It started initially with chemotherapy exposure, but if
(14:14):
you actually look at the dry products for the big breakdown
of chemotherapy, one of them being acrylene is something that
you find in the air with pollution.
You find it with second hand smoke, you find it with
microplastics, a new microwave, it's that same compound.
And then there's a dose dependent relationship, right?
Like I literally think of that and I look at what I ate in
(14:36):
college and in Med school. I would take my frozen meals,
microwave all those plastics, and then eat out of that.
Yeah, right. And that's what I ate three
times a day. And I would warm up my coffee
and my plastic cup, and then I would drink out of that.
So it's all of this. And it's cumulative effect that
it compounds and accumulates over time.
(14:59):
And I know, and that's the same reason why not only do I
advocate for living a healthier life and doing stuff that's more
sustainable. I'm so glad that you mentioned
earlier that you're starting to try to do this in your family
because that's important. That's what I tell my patients,
that this is not going to be an overnight thing, that the more
you look at this, it's everywhere.
(15:20):
It's not only in your like your daily shampoo and your face
washes, but it's in your makeup,it's in your food, it's in your
clothing, it's everywhere. So make changes that are
sustainable and slowly start looking at this stuff.
Not like an overnight, I'm goingto eliminate everything because
it is going to be hard to eliminate.
Like there's so much exposure tothis constantly day in and day
(15:44):
out. Yes, yes, and I mean how we did
it very scalable is we started with Tupperware containers and
we got Pyrex, you know, versus the the plastic.
And it was all through infertility journey and being
educated and just doing researchand things like that.
And then also right, like what we drink out of what we, so even
(16:05):
making our own laundry detergentis actually very easy to do and
your own dishwashing soap and things like that, you know,
using organic matters and you know, just doing different
things that like you're saying is very scalable.
Or you can even buy and purchasethose items already made.
I just found for us, it was cheaper and easier for us to do,
(16:26):
for me to make it with differentrecipes and things like that.
But right, it's like, you know, your skins are largest and like,
what am I putting on my face? What am I exposing my body to?
Yeah. But definitely agree.
I think it's so important what you're doing and 100%, you know,
that's one of the biggest concerns my patients have, that
it's going to be really hard. It's going to be so expensive.
(16:49):
But I'm so glad that you broughtthat up.
Yeah, yeah. Because it can be scalable and
you know, we shop at Trader Joe's, it's a you can get a lot
of organic products in there very cheap compared to, you
know, other big box stores where, you know, it does cost a
lot for organic products, but orlike finding coupons or you
(17:09):
know, doing things like that. But there's ways to do it or
farmers markets and things like that too.
Yeah. It's so true.
Yeah, and it's. So it just goes to show you that
little changes like this can go a very long way.
Right, right now, what in the immunology space do you work on
(17:30):
and study within that too? I would love to say that I'm
well versed in this and I know alittle bit more, but there's no
official fellowship. They're starting an official
fellowship and I would love to learn more about it.
And I do think it does play a role with implantation and
pregnancy loss, especially as wenavigate this month.
(17:54):
It's so important to know that there's still research being
done, right? The hardest thing as a doctor is
to say I'm not sure what to do for you it.
And it sucks because it sucks because I don't want anyone to
ever think I'm giving up on them.
And it sucks because I was that patient where they said, well,
can't do anything else, you know?
(18:14):
So it's either you try the same thing and continue to lose, or
you move on to your next and build your family a different
way. And I don't think there's
anything wrong with that, but I just wanted to know my why.
So I did my best to learn the stuff on my own, to understand
the role of new innovation and how it's applicable to
(18:37):
optimizing outcome. What can I do differently for my
patients? What can Ioffer them?
That may be the solution, and maybe it's not a solution, but
long as it's not hurting them, why don't I add it on and try,
right? Like that's what I wanted.
Like if I'm not hurting myself, why can't we add it?
And I remember one time really thinking like, if you tell me to
(18:59):
go lick a toilet, I will. If you tell me to go drink that
water, I will. I don't care what it is like.
Help me. Help me figure out my body.
Help me figure out how I can getwhere I want to get.
Absolutely. And I think thoroughly looking
over everything and looking at labs, looking at genetic
testing, all of it, it was so important in these in this time
(19:21):
too. Yeah, and like understanding and
I know like I Ioffer a mock cycle like understanding your
like your vaginal microbiome, understanding inflammatory
markers, understanding antibodies, like there has to be
a reason they exist, right? It's now let's figure out how to
(19:42):
interpret them. Absolutely.
And using them practically to continue, yes.
Yeah, and it just, it brings me a lot of joy to help solve and
get my patients where I want them to be.
And the text messages I get, I mean, that's what keeps me
going, right? The to be a forever part of
(20:05):
somebody's life and story is such an honor.
And just you have that empathetic and, you know,
passionate heart because you've walked this journey and that's,
you know, rare to find when we're on it.
Yeah, yeah, I think it. I definitely think it makes a
difference. And, you know, I may not be the
(20:26):
right doctor for everyone, but Ireally try to help my patients
understand their, their body, their data, their numbers.
And I always say we're A-Team, right?
Like, it's not, I'm not the authority.
And fertility is such a wild type of medicine, right?
It's not like, it's not like a high blood pressure, like you
have this and you take this and I'm going to solve it.
(20:47):
And like it's completely different.
It's a little bit of my science,a little bit of hope, and you
know, a lot of just what your body gives us and can call it my
magic. So it's literally like a
combination of the three to comeup with the best plan for you.
And hearing that it's a team because it really does take the
(21:08):
village, you know, when you're on this, but also, you know,
having like your future and, youknow, your hands and our baby's
future in your hands. And feeling like, you know, we
can talk through and really workthrough anything together and
ask those difficult questions and also experience the
difficult losses that can go hand in hand with this.
(21:30):
Yeah, for sure. And you have to feel comfortable
with who you're with. And I think you made a great
point that you know, and not every clinic and not every
doctor is going to be the right one for you.
Yeah. So I think, you know, making
sure that you is it OK to interview doctors and, you know,
figure out who is a good fit and. 100% And whenever I get
(21:54):
like I do a lot of Q and as on my social media, I always get
asked when is the right time to get a second opinion.
And for me is if you're asking that question, you're already
starting to doubt your plan of care or where you are and how
you're feeling. That's that time.
And as a doctor, I always encourage my patients like, you
know, get a second opinion, hearit out.
(22:15):
Because everyone practices this a little bit differently because
we don't have and you also don'twant the bread, Bread and
butter. This is your age.
This is what we do because everyone's body is different.
We're all built a little bit differently.
Absolutely. And that is extremely important
that you're looked at not just as the number and statistic, but
you're looked at individually. And I love how you said that
(22:36):
even earlier too in the conversation, Like, let's look
at your numbers. Let's look at you as an
individual and then come up withyour protocol, you know?
Yeah, 100%. It's so important and no doctor
should get offended with a second opinion.
I know I encourage it and I knowmy friends do too.
You know, this is our guys a very small world, as I'm sure
you see, we all know each other,we love each other.
(22:59):
And I don't, you know, I think there's, we just want what's
best for our patients. Right.
And what's even interesting is too, if you do get a second
opinion and they give you the same feedback that you had from
your previous doctor, then it's like, OK, we're in line.
Great. Like, I just feel better and
reassured that what we're about to do and what we're about to
(23:20):
invest in because, you know, sometimes you are maxing out
credit cards, you are taking outsecond mortgages, You are, you
know, doing everything in your power to afford these services
if they're not covered in your state or by your employer.
So you know you're going to those extremes and you want to
make sure that you are putting your best foot forward and
controlling what you can in those moments, but also feeling
(23:40):
confident in it. Yes, for sure, 100%.
I think that is so important. Yeah.
So what were, you know, some of the challenges and emotions that
you didn't expect to experience when you were on your own
journey and now have helped yourpatients with?
(24:02):
Yeah, I think the most challenging part was
relinquishing control. I'm a control freak and I, yeah.
And I, I know my own weaknesses.Like I, it was so hard for me to
be like, OK, I just have to waitit out.
And even with like, I still remember this is so eye opening.
(24:22):
When I was first doing ovulationinduction and design wise, and I
remember I was like, but why isn't it working?
Like I see my lining, I see my follicle, I see the sperm, I see
where you're putting it. We're following all the steps.
And why isn't it working like over and over and over again?
And I remember my doctor literally saying like, hey,
(24:43):
remember when I told you that this is only like 15% success?
And I was like, yeah, but I see it.
And he goes, yeah, he's like, I'm going to flip it now.
It's there's an 80 to 90% chancethis is not working.
And I was like, oh, and I was like that like, you know, it was
so crazy because he, he just thought he said the same thing,
(25:04):
but he said it a different way. And I was like, wow, that makes
so much more sense. Like the odds are not in my
favor, right? And it, I couldn't get it
because once again, the control freak in me was like, but I'm
doing everything I'm supposed toand I'm following what I'm
supposed to do. And I see it.
And you almost have to be right.Like in school, you're like, you
(25:25):
do XYZ. This is how you, where you get.
And that's why I think it's so important to remember fertility
is a combination of variables and not just your normal
medicines, especially like for asurgeon where you like cut and
you get the end result immediately.
That's not, that's not what it happens when it comes to your
(25:45):
fertility journey. And I think that was the hardest
thing as a patient to you can put all the effort and
unfortunately it's it's not you,you're not causing this.
Yeah, that's such a great reminder.
Goodness, You know, looking forward, what gives you hope for
the future, for reproductive medicine and the families you
(26:08):
serve? Innovation.
I love new stuff. I love being able to tell my
patients that there's more that you haven't done because I hate
it when somebody told me, sorry,you've done everything and
you're that's it. Like keep trying and I get it,
(26:29):
it's a probability, but give me something different.
Tell me that there's going to bea break to breakthrough.
Tell me that, you know, whateverit is, that there's hope for
more and like you sent you some bit so perfectly earlier that it
gives you hope. So for me, innovation equals
opportunity and hope for those who are starting to lose it.
(26:49):
Wow. Amazing it was just and it's
really comforting to hear that we're not just staying here,
right, We're not just stagnant as a society.
You know, doctors like we're going out doing research finding
because I think something hard too when you're experiencing the
losses alongside and hearing, you know, you lost an early term
(27:12):
baby and you know, the medical terms like chemical pregnancy,
all those things. But in the end it's a baby and
it's like that, you know, hits the family hard.
And when there's not a reason why you lost the baby,
especially reoccurring pregnancyloss and you look at that and
that's a part of infertility andnot getting those answers.
(27:32):
It can be. It's so hard because the chain
blame and guilt that us birthingpeople hold on to Yeah for.
Sure, like always reflecting. Like I wish I could go back.
I wish I could have done it differently.
You know that soft blame game ishorrible.
Yes, absolutely. What would you like to leave our
(27:54):
listeners with? One piece of advice.
Yeah, if I would, if I could leave with one piece of advice
it that not, not every journey looks the same, whether it's you
comparing yourself to your friend or your first baby to
your second. Every journey is different.
(28:15):
And to give yourself grace because I was really, I remember
like every time I was like, whatdid I do wrong?
What could have done differently?
And you know, your friend circleor society or anybody doesn't
really help. Like are you sleeping?
Are you eating? Are you working too hard?
You know, so it it's not you, right?
(28:36):
Think of all everything outside of this infertility world.
It's so hard to finger point. So it's really nothing that
you're doing and you'll get there.
Everyone's journey looks different.
Ruhi, thank you so much for being on here today, for sharing
your journey, your experience, you know, in this field and it
(28:58):
just, it means so much to hear from you.
So thank you. Of course, thank you for having
me. Absolutely, you know, to our
listeners, whether you're in themiddle of your own fertility
journey, grieving a loss, or standing beside someone who is,
please know that you are not alone.
Chasing the Rainbows is here foryou every step of the way.
Visit babylossawareness.org to learn more about Every Loss
(29:20):
Matters campaign, community resources, and daily support
offerings for anyone living withinfertility, any type of
pregnancy loss, and infant loss.Because every loss matters, and
so does every story. Thank you so much again for
being here Ruhi, have a great day.
Thank you.
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