December 15, 2025 • 37 mins
When you’re pregnant after loss, every appointment can feel overwhelming and every decision can feel high-stakes. In this powerful episode of Cry It Out Loud!, we’re joined by Savannah June, BSN, RN, C-EFM, the Savvy Legal Nurse, who assists attorneys nationwide by reviewing medical cases involving high-risk OB, maternal-fetal medicine, and electronic fetal monitoring.
Savannah breaks down what every expecting parent needs to know when a birth plan doesn’t go as planned from understanding who is actually on your care team, to using your medical records and patient portals, to slowing down decisions and giving informed consent. Drawing from her experience bridging healthcare and medical-legal advocacy, she shares the language that empowers parents, the questions that protect you, and the rights too many families don’t realize they have until it’s too late.
This episode is essential listening for anyone who is pregnant after miscarriage, stillbirth, infant loss, or birth trauma, as well as partners, doulas, and advocates who want to support families through informed, compassionate care.
Knowledge is power and advocacy can be life-changing.
👉 Learn how to honor your baby, share your story out loud, and get involved through awareness events and volunteering at ChasingtheRainbows.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Crying Out Loud, a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows with your
host Bernice Quisenberry. Every 90 seconds in the USA,
family experiences baby loss, pregnancy, or infant loss.
(00:32):
For many, the heartbreak is compounded by not understanding
their rights as patients, especially when their birth plan
is disrupted. Today I'm joined by Savannah
June, who is a registered nurse and also known as the Savvy
Legal RN. Savannah assist attorneys
nationwide by reviewing medical related cases with a Sharp
HealthCare perspective. Specializing in high risk OB,
(00:55):
maternal fetal medicine, and electronic fetal monitoring
review. Her work bridges the worlds of
nursing and law, giving familiesa voice when things go
tragically wrong in the deliveryroom.
She's here with us to share whatevery parent needs to know about
patient rights, medical records,and how to advocate for yourself
when birth doesn't go as planned.
(01:15):
Savannah, thank you so much for being on here today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Yes, absolutely.
And I want to start right where so many parents find themselves
in the delivery room or the clinic when things don't go as
plan. And families often feel
powerless in those moments, likethey can't, you know, question,
like they just can't process things.
They question everything or evenjust slow down with what's
(01:38):
happening. So from your perspective as both
a nurse and a legal consult, of course, we would love to hear
why you're so passionate about your work and what you feel like
every parent should know about their rights in these critical
situations. Sure.
So I have a background in OB, I've been an OB nurse for over
17 years. I started in labor and delivery.
(02:01):
And when I was in labor and delivery, I found that I really
do have a passion for patients experiencing loss and and taking
care of those families. And then when I became a little
bit more experienced in my work,I decided to kind of branch off
(02:24):
into like the legal realm of it.And so I'm looking at, you know,
bad outcomes. And a lot of times I get asked
to review records and see, Hey, what's the standard of care met
here? Did we miss something along the
way? And, and sometimes it was and,
you know, I'm here to kind of help those families get a voice,
(02:46):
but also sometimes it was a really tragic outcome that
couldn't be prevented. And I do think that having
somebody like review it and kindof explain that also is able to
bring some peace to people who weren't able to get the debriefs
or answers, you know, from theirmedical team during such a
(03:08):
traumatic experience. So I get to see kind of both
sides of the fence, you know, being a nurse still myself, I'm
clinically active in maternal fetal medicine.
But also seeing the other side of of, you know, patient
experiences and, and people experiencing loss or trauma
after there has been a really traumatic event, you know, still
(03:31):
being able to help them with my medical knowledge.
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Savannah, for
sharing that. And yeah, your passion, you
know, behind your work and the years that you've, you know,
spent alongside patients and still spend alongside them.
I know most of the times, you know, birth plans don't go as
planned regardless of loss or what happens.
But, you know, things pivot and move in different situations and
(03:54):
to really, you know, in those moments with the birthing person
and the baby, you know, monitoring them and everything,
you know. Yeah.
And so in those moments, it is so important to understand, you
know, what you can ask for, whatyou know with with if within
your rights and things like that.
And I think educating is so muchbetter to advocate for yourself
(04:16):
in those situations. For sure.
Yeah. So one of the big things I do
because I work in a prenatal setting, so I see patients as a
nurse in clinic and I'm explaining sometimes really
complex medical conditions to them that maybe the doctor
already explained but used like very technical terms.
(04:40):
You can always ask for it to, you know, be re explained in in
like a different way, like can you rephrase that for me is
totally OK to ask. You can also get your records.
I I think like the number one thing that I'm recommending for
my patients is to download the hospital or the clinic's patient
(05:01):
portal that gives you your labs,your your records and they
belong to you. There was the CARES Act which
came out and, and that means that your automatic, your your
record should be automatically released to you through that.
So a lot of patients are findingthis like patient portal is
(05:22):
helpful because they're not waiting for a call to see if
their labs are abnormal. They're able to reach out to
their provider directly and ask a question.
They're able to see if things have been reviewed by the
medical provider yet. A lot of times patients get the
labs before the nurses or doctors even get a chance to
look at it. Sometimes it gives you a chance
(05:44):
to to process that information before the doctor comes to you.
And so that you know, like what questions to ask.
So that's always one thing that I recommend to my patients
prenatally to, to be more involved in their care and to
have access to those records. Absolutely.
And so, yeah, like you're saying, that's all under and
(06:07):
they have ownership to all of that.
All the test results, Labs notes, everything belongs to the
patient. So that's something that they
can find in their portals, they can pull it and then they can
review it. Right.
And if like you're going to, youknow, sometimes smaller clinics
don't have an online portal, youstill you should still be able
to get your medical records. You just might have to go
(06:28):
through their like health information or sign a release.
Absolutely. And is there a time frame that
they have to be able to provide those records to you within?
You know, I think that that eachhospital policy has like
probably something different. They should not be, you know,
withholding them for a long time.
(06:49):
Sometimes it can take, you know,a week to get, you know, prior
results through medical records.But if the hospital has a
patient portal, you should be able to get those released
immediately. OK, Now that's good to know,
Savannah. Yeah.
And just understanding if there was any laws around that or
maybe that is something someday,you know, that will change, you
(07:11):
know that it has to be within a certain time frame and all of
those things. So.
Yeah, when you're going to like a health information or health
management and signing the release form, somebody has to
manually go in and extract thoserecords.
So it does, you know, take some time, but it it shouldn't take
weeks. Yes.
OK. No, that's good to understand.
(07:31):
Yeah. And you were talking about how
language matters. And it really does because in
those moments when you're being thrown all this medical jargon
and you're not understanding it,and then you're trying to make
critical decisions, you know, especially when it comes to the
health of you, your baby, in those moments.
And everything is so heightened.I think it's, you know, language
(07:52):
can either shut doors or they can open them in so many ways
with patients. So, you know, you've shared some
of the grounding phrases that, you know, we talked about
before, like how to really empower parents to have that
voice. Like, can you rephrase that?
But then also like things like I'm concerned about or what are
all their alternatives or ways that parents can ask for things
(08:14):
in those moments? Right.
So I always tell my patients as well, like if there's something
that you're not understanding orsomething that you're worried
about in healthcare, we we focusa lot about like communication
and especially in Oba lot of thenurses and providers all have,
(08:39):
you know, like a professional organization.
Like for OB, it's a one the Association of Women's Health,
Obstetric and Neonatal nurses. The physicians have a cog, the
American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists, and they talk
about the perinatal communication and one of the
things that we bring up frequently, and they're called
cuss words, not like swearing, but it's, I'm concerned about or
(09:04):
I'm uncomfortable with this. I, I'm concerned about the
safety of this. And when nurses bring those
phrases up to providers, it's kind of like a stop.
Like let's talk about this. And patients can use those words
too. So I always tell my patients, if
there's something that you're you're concerned about or that
(09:27):
isn't making sense to you or you're uncomfortable with, use
that language, the provider is or should be aware of that
language to, to mean like, OK, Ineed to, I need to think about
this. I need to slow down.
I need to make sure that we're all on the same page here.
Another thing is informed consent is huge in OB And I, I
(09:50):
think that's a big, a big feeling with, with people that
have experienced like a loss or trauma because they felt
sometimes like they weren't informed.
And so one thing that you can doas a patient too, is to ask
like, what are the benefits of this?
What are the risks of this? Are there any alternatives to
(10:11):
this? And, and your provider should
already be, you know, explainingall of those things to you, but
using that language as well as like kind of talking in like
medical talk back to them. Like, tell me why I should do
this. Give me some time to think about
this and explain to me what likethe benefit is so that I can
(10:32):
make an informed choice about mycare.
Sometimes if patients are like, you know, I just don't feel
comfortable asking my doctor or,you know, my midwife or whoever
about it, or I just feel like like pressured into a certain
situation or I, I feel like uncomfortable asking.
(10:55):
I explained to them to like, sometimes adding like a human
element to it helps. Sometimes, like I'll even say to
my doctors, like, if I was your sister or your best friend, what
would you tell me? Because it reminds them that I'm
not just a patient, I'm a person.
And there's people that care about me and care about my
(11:19):
outcomes. Like what would you tell
somebody that you loved about this situation, about this
disease, about this risk? Like what would you tell
somebody that you cared about? And I think that that kind of
helps reframe things for the healthcare provider as well.
If somebody asks me like that, I, I would love that.
(11:39):
I would love to sit down and chat with you like you're my
best friend or you're my sister and just explain everything like
that. And I, I do think that that
helps build a rapport with your patients.
And if your provider is able to do that, and if they're not, you
can find another provider. Right.
(12:01):
Yeah, so important. And to feel that connection
because your life, your baby's life are in their hands.
And so having that person that can validate you, you know, make
you feel seen and heard, all of your concerns are addressed.
It's so important in those moments because if something
were to go wrong to the other extreme where it goes towards
loss, you know, and, and things like that, like the traumas,
(12:23):
it's like how can you in those moments feel like you can trust
that person? Right.
And I mean, making healthcare decisions after you've already
experienced like a really traumatic event or loss, it gets
really hard to trust somebody that you've just met that you
don't know with like the most important decisions of your
life, right? I, I get that as a nurse,
(12:46):
sometimes we get so busy in our own like care of our patients
that we forget that, that they are trying to navigate the
system through trauma and that, that it's hard for them to trust
us. So I need to be able to, like,
open that bridge up so that my patients can trust me and feel
safe and, you know, be able to make decisions in their own
(13:12):
time. And so one other thing that I
also advocate for my patients isyou can ask, is this an
emergency? Do I have time to decide?
You can say, can I have a few minutes?
Can you step outside of the roomso I can think about this?
And, you know, I work in maternal fetal medicine.
(13:34):
So sometimes we see things that are unexpected on ultrasound,
right? And then everybody's, you know,
worst fear comes to mind like, Oh my gosh, I need answers.
Sometimes the providers will recommend like an amniocentesis
or ACVS, which is another form of genetic testing.
(13:58):
And sometimes that that doesn't need to be done emergently.
Sometimes like parents just needto go home and think about what
that information would mean for them, if it would be meaningful
in like future decision making. And I always try and give the
patients space when they're in the clinic to think about that.
(14:19):
But sometimes they don't understand, like this is an an
emergency. You don't need to do it today.
And I think going home and sleeping on it and thinking
about what it would mean for your care, Like, is it going to
change anything for you? Is it going to cause more worry?
Are there other tests that are less invasive that could also
give you answers? And those are all like good
(14:42):
questions to be able to ask yourprovider, but you might not be
able to think of them right away.
Yes, especially in those momentswhen you're really spiraling,
like you're really thinking it'soverwhelming.
You're hearing different things that are scary and potentially
could you know, lead to something else.
And sometimes, you know, having more education, you do you want
(15:05):
that or sometimes you don't. And I think it, you know, based
on patient to patient. But in those moments when
someone is looking For more information or trying to
understand so that they can makethe best decision for
themselves, is, is crucial. And you know, hearing it
different ways presented, even sometimes I know in our moments,
I needed things said four different ways and they were
(15:27):
saying the exact same thing. But it was because I was so like
I was trying to focus. And it's really hard in those
moments to actually do that. It's like, did I hear you?
Like I, I heard you. I just, I'm not listening.
I can't like process it. And so then can you repeat that
or can you say that again? And you know, having that
though, to be able to then take it and sit with it and not
(15:48):
feeling rushed in those amendments because a lot of
times, you know, we hear that insupport group from others who
they're just feel like a number and it's not just a number to
them, it's them and their baby. Right, right.
Yeah. Taking that time, you know, can
really bring Peace of Mind. Either way, you might decide,
like, this is absolutely something I want done.
(16:09):
I want it done as soon as possible.
I want to know everything about it.
Or you may say, you know, this is not really going to give me
any information. I'm not going to do anything
differently, but it gives me time.
Right. Yeah.
And not rush phenom. Yeah, that's huge.
Yeah, unless it is a rush situation.
But educating them on that, saying this is something that we
do need to decide pretty immediately.
(16:30):
So let's talk through everythingtogether or this is, you know,
something that but that's so important.
Savannah. Yeah.
Yeah, asking like when do I needto make this decision by?
Gas. You know, you know, how long can
I wait? Those are those are questions
that any provider should be ableto, to answer.
(16:51):
They can give the recommendationif it's, you know, a true
emergency, they may say, I thinkyou or you know, your baby's
life are at risk right now. And, you know, obviously that
changes everything, but sometimes you need to to hear
when it's an emergency and when it's not an emergency because
(17:14):
like when you find out new information, everything might
feel like an emergency. And if you don't have to make
these decisions emergently, thatcan really help like process
and, you know, help with your own Peace of Mind.
So for sure, you know, bringing people with you to the hospital
(17:35):
so that they can also ask those questions is helpful because
sometimes you're just you're only hearing pieces of what the
provider is saying. Because there are certain things
that are like sticking out to you and you know, somebody else
might be able to hear it differently or might be able to
(17:57):
ask the questions that they knowthat you would want answered.
So, you know, making sure that you can bring somebody with you.
If you're not able to bring somebody with you, having
somebody on speakerphone or you know, a lot of insurance
companies are also like coveringdoulas.
Now I'm seeing a lot more doulasin clinics.
(18:17):
So having somebody there that can advocate for you when you're
unable to really speak what you want is helpful.
Yes, absolutely. Having that support person, if
it's not your partner, if it's not some, just someone that you
can trust, even if it is outsideand doulas, you know, being
educated on both navigating the hospital and all the dynamics
(18:40):
there, but then understanding your birth plan and being like
someone that's kind of removed emotionally from everything can
be so important and imperative in those moments.
Yeah, for sure, yeah. And having them, you know, with
you prenatally as well as in thehospital can really help.
You know, it's not just about like being there at delivery,
(19:04):
but along the way because you know, that's sometimes the point
when you know decisions are needing to be made is before you
even get to. Delivery, absolutely, yeah.
Yeah. That sounds great, Yeah.
And let's talk about navigating hospitals and providers.
You know, especially teaching hospitals can feel very
(19:25):
overwhelming. There's like interns, residents,
attendings, nurses, and so many people coming in and out of your
room or especially if you're having to go into the hospital
to be on bed rest or whatever that looks like.
And try and understand who you ask questions to or who are the
right people and who's going to be, you know, if you need to get
(19:45):
surgery, like who are the ones that are going to be in the
rooms with you? All of those things, like what
should parents know about the hierarchy?
OK. So that's a great question.
Teaching hospitals often have a lot of like doctors in training.
So they're called residents. Sometimes you'll hear them
called interns. That's their first year.
Then you'll also hear. You know, a junior and senior
(20:09):
residents, they're there for typically four years as an
OBGYN. The OBGYN residency is about
four years and each of those residents are responsible for OB
care. But the answer to an attending
doctor and an attending OB is somebody that has been through
(20:30):
medical school and is an obstetrician gynecologist and
they have a board certification,they're fully trained and they
are responsible for training theother doctors.
And so sometimes you may be getting mixed information from
(20:51):
different providers and you can always say, you know, I have
some questions for the attending, you know, can can an
attending round today so that wecan talk about the plan of care
going forward. I just want to hear their input.
And it's not dismissing the lessexperienced providers, but you
(21:14):
have the right to ask for that, to know if I need surgery, who's
going to be performing my surgery?
Is it, am I going to have students in there?
Am I going to have medical students?
Am I going to have, I mean, they're not going to be
performing the surgery, but you know, who is responsible for my
care? Who is going to be present?
(21:34):
Those are all good things to like ask while you're in the
hospital. Also, when you're in the
hospital, understand that yes, there's people learning, but you
don't need to be the Guinea pig.I, you know, I hate to, to say
it like that, but they are learning something from you, but
(21:58):
you don't have to say yes. And one example that I see
frequently is cervical exams. And that can be really traumatic
for people that have experiencedloss or have experienced other
traumatic events in their life. And it should always be asked.
It should never, it should neverjust be said, hey, I'm going to
(22:21):
check your cervix now. No, they should be asking for
permission. Is it OK if I check your cervix?
And if they say, you know, is itOK for me to check your cervix?
And then is it OK for this otherdoctor to check after me?
You don't have to say yes to that if it doesn't bother you
and you're fine with it. But that's another story.
(22:42):
But I always want patients to know that consent is, is still
consent at the at the hospital. You have to be able to consent
to your care and so asking permission is important for any
time somebody is laying hands onyou.
Absolutely, yeah. And.
(23:04):
When you're at an OB office or you're getting, you know,
treated through your pregnancy and things, you know, they might
have 8 or 10 doctors on the teamand you don't know who's going
to deliver you. So when you get there, you could
just be meeting that OB that first time and they're getting
ready and you don't know who is the OB, who's in charge.
And if you're going into surgerywith all the bright lights,
(23:25):
laying on a table, not really seeing anything because the
thing's up, it's really hard to know in those moments you know
who is treating you. Yeah.
And, and you're allowed to say like, can I talk to the
attending that's going to be there for my delivery?
And I mean, if you want to, you know, tell them anything about
your previous experiences, That's, that's OK too, to like
(23:48):
talk about what has happened andwhat you're worried about.
If you don't want to share, you know, your, your previous
trauma, that's OK too. Sometimes patients do like
explaining that to their doctor,like, Hey, I just want you to
know that this previous thing happened to me and this is what
I'm concerned about happening again or going forward.
(24:12):
And, and sometimes that's helpful as a provider to know
because sometimes if you're coming new to our system and we
don't have any documentation about what happened in your last
delivery, we may not know like the underlying story or, or what
what happened to you. And if you want to share that, I
(24:34):
think, you know, sometimes that can be really important with
your relationship with the provider so that they also have
an understanding of what you've been through.
And it, it kind of like humanizes people more
understanding like what somebodyhas been through to get to where
(24:58):
they are now. But by all means, if you aren't
ready to Share your story, you don't have to Share your story.
You can just say, I've had a previous traumatic experience or
I, you know, and I don't want totalk about it.
But sometimes sharing what has happened with your new provider
can can help establish trust with your new provider as well,
because they can understand whatyou've been through and they may
(25:19):
take different steps. They may explain things
differently. They may make sure that they're
talking more than like what theynormally would when they're
explaining what's happening in the in the situation.
Sometimes you have a provider that you've seen your whole
pregnancy and you know that they're not going to be
(25:42):
delivering you for whatever reason.
And so you've like, you know, built a relationship with them.
You can ask them, you know, for recommendations for like maybe
building a birth plan together. Like if it's a provider that you
trust, you're like, you could bring in your birth plan
(26:04):
prenatally and just say, Hey, I,I trust you.
I know that you're not going to be there for my delivery, but
can we talk about what my preferences are and so that they
can be like communicated effectively to the next
provider? Sometimes that's really helpful.
And having that when a patient enters the system and, and you
(26:25):
know, has like a medical record,having that birth plan in their
medical record so that all the providers can see it even before
they come in is helpful. That's usually scanned in and
sometimes that can take like a week to get scanned into the
medical record. So turning it in or reviewing it
with your provider earlier in your pregnancy, you know, 30
(26:46):
something weeks before you deliver can can be helpful.
Having that established in placelike a catastrophic birth plan.
And I had never thought of that before, but I, it really got me
thinking about like these, you know, families that have
experienced loss and like their brain always goes to like, worst
(27:07):
case scenario, like, what would I want to happen?
Because that's a trauma response.
You know, for sure after you've already experienced something,
you're afraid of it happening again and you're afraid of
losing that autonomy in the situation and like the control.
And so it was a really interesting episode about
(27:29):
putting on paper like, who should make choices for you in
an emergency? Who should be updated?
Do you want pictures or video taken?
If you're not available to do that, are there any spiritual or
cultural wishes that you want the staff to honor?
You can address like emergency surgery or hysterectomy in
(27:51):
there. You can talk about like blood
transfusion decisions or preferences.
If you're in the ICU and you're intubated, do you want to be
pumped for breast milk? Like making that choice ahead of
time for what happens to your body.
Although it's like very, you know, a traumatic and sometimes
a triggering thing to think about.
(28:13):
I can see how it would be beneficial to have it on paper
and at least have that like clarity and and Peace of Mind
that you're able to express yourpreferences ahead of time.
I mean, I never ever want patients to have to use that,
but sometimes saying if the worst thing happens, this is
(28:34):
what I want, this is my, this ismy preference.
And I just thought that was kindof a, a cool take on it and and
something that patients can do, you know, when their mind
doesn't stop going to like worstcase scenario.
Especially when you've experienced, I know from
personally, you know, going through loss and then getting
pregnant again and pregnancy after loss.
And it's hard not to go like you're saying, Savannah, to
(28:56):
those extremes because you've already experienced one of the
worst case scenario outcomes. Well, for a parent, you know,
the worst case scenario. So if something were to happen
in the next delivery, because it, you know, we already know it
didn't go as planned the first time.
So what does this look like? You know, and understanding that
and then having your care team apart of it.
So, you know, it's interesting because I know walking into
(29:20):
before we delivered pregnancy after loss, saying to my
husband, these are the things I wanted, but this is also an
emotional experience for him. This is his baby, this is his
wife on the table. So how can you know?
And he might not be thinking in those moments or staying level
headed either. So how can you do a better job
of communicating that to your team?
So if you are, if you have a great relationship with your
(29:44):
doctor beforehand, they probablyalready know where your head is
at with, you know, this next pregnancy and everything that
you're, you know, going through and dealing with and the, and
the trauma that you've experienced.
And you can explain to them likeI've kind of made a plan in
case, you know, things don't go as planned again.
Can you make sure this is in my medical record and that it's
noted that it's in there so thatpeople know to look for it?
(30:07):
If you are admitted to the hospital for an induction of
Labor that you're, you know, very nervous about or that you
have, you know, some other admission to the hospital that
you're going to be there for a prolonged period of time, If
there is a nurse that you feel connected with, you can always
(30:29):
ask them to like, can you help be my, like advocate for this?
A lot of times, you know, labor can be long and exhausting, and
you're already maybe emotionallyexhausted by the time you even
get to the delivery room. And so asking the nurse to be
(30:50):
your advocate and saying like, hey, this is how I want things
to go down and these are my preferences.
Can we talk about it? Can we go through my birth plan
like point by point, like right when you know, when you get
there to to say, like I this will help me at ease it it will
bring me, you know, some peace. And nurses know that when
(31:13):
birthing people feel safe, they're able to to to give birth
better. It just it when you feel safe,
you have a better experience, your body can do what it needs
to do when you feel safe. We don't want our patients to
feel triggered. And if there's something that
(31:35):
we're talking about or doing that makes you feel a certain
way, we want you to tell us so that you feel safe the whole
time you're in our care. Sometimes families mean well and
they want to be there to supportyou because they know that
you've had, you know, this traumatic experience.
And so you've got, like, sisters, friends, cousins,
(31:58):
whoever you want, you know, to be in your delivery the second
time around. And that can be really
overwhelming for a lot of people.
And it's hard sometimes for patients to feel not overwhelmed
when there's so many voices in the room and you know, people
forget that this is like a life changing experience for you.
(32:23):
Like you're, you're birthing a baby.
It's not like a party. You know, sometimes they're in
there just like eating and loud and you know, and it's, it's
hard to focus on yourself and and your baby and you know how
you want your birth outcome to be.
(32:44):
So sometimes I'll, when I was a labor and delivery nurse, I had
a code word with my patients when I would admit them,
especially if they had, you know, previous trauma or they or
they had shared with me. Like I'm really overwhelmed just
being here. I'm just, I'm scared this is
(33:05):
this is something that, you know, like I'm really struggling
with. I would say, what is your least
favorite juice? And most people would say
cranberry or orange. And I would say, ask me for some
cranberry juice and I'll know that's our code word.
I'll just say, OK, I'll go and I'll pretend to look and I'll
say, unfortunately we don't haveany cranberry juice.
(33:26):
But I do need everybody to step out because I've got to, I've
got to do an assessment. I've got to take care of some
things. So I'm just going to ask you
guys to to step out to the hallway and that will be kind of
like our code to like clear the room and regroup.
Or sometimes if they don't want their family to step out, it can
be like my code to just be like,all right, everybody like, let's
(33:49):
calm down. Let's let's like take some time
to just like relax. Mom here needs, you know, some
some peace, some quiet. What can I do to help you relax
here? Can I give you a back massage?
Can I, you know, give you any like aromatherapy oils?
What can I do to make this room more relaxing for you?
(34:12):
And so sometimes people take a hint then, but having kind of
like a, a code with your nurse can help because they're not
afraid of family. I mean, it's some it's hard to
to ask your family to step out sometimes because.
You don't hurt feelings. You don't hurt feelings, but
(34:34):
also like it's hard to advocate for yourself.
And they're supposed to be thereadvocating for you, but they're
not really understanding or theymaybe lost sight of, hey, this,
this is this is triggering for the person I'm here for.
And so having that that relationship with your nurse can
(34:55):
really be beneficial. Oh.
That's great, Savannah. Yeah, Thank you.
Is there anything that you wouldlove to leave our listeners
with? I know we went over so much.
This has been so educational andI can't thank you enough for
being on here and would love to know, you know what you would
love for everybody to to know. You can ask questions, you can
(35:21):
ask for space, you can set limits.
Saying no is a valid option. Of course.
If you're saying no, I want to make sure that you're, you know,
informed with what you're sayingno to, making sure that you
understand the risks, the benefits, the alternatives.
(35:41):
And if you do, no is an option. And then just remember, your
lived experience gives you insight that matters.
Trust your gut. If you're not vibing with your
nurse, you can always ask for another one.
Your safety during your hospitalization and your peace
(36:03):
matters. So protect your peace and and
don't feel afraid to advocate for yourself.
We want that for you. And if there's any way that you
feel like your nurse can help, you can ask for it.
Thank you, Savannah. Today's conversation with
(36:24):
Savannah reminds us of somethingso important.
Your voice matters, whether it'sin the hospital room, at the
doctor's office. After an unimaginable loss,
parents have rights and parents deserve to be heard.
But this doesn't just end with knowing your rights.
Healing also comes from action, from honoring your baby,
speaking your story out loud, and building a world where every
loss is recognized. At Chasing the Rainbows, we
(36:46):
believe every baby loss matters and every family deserves
support. If you are ready to take the
next step, we invite you to joinus.
Volunteer your time. Host an awareness event in your
community. Share your baby's story with
courage and compassion. Together, we can break the
silence around all these types of baby losses.
To learn more and get involved, visit babylossawareness.org.
(37:06):
There you'll find resources, ways to honor your baby, and
opportunities to be a part of a growing movement.
Because when we stand together, no parent has to grieve alone.
Thank you so much again Savannahfor everything.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Crying Out Loud, a podcast by Chasing the Rainbows with your
host Bernice Quisenberry. Every 90 seconds in the USA,
family experiences baby loss, pregnancy, or infant loss.
(00:32):
For many, the heartbreak is compounded by not understanding
their rights as patients, especially when their birth plan
is disrupted. Today I'm joined by Savannah
June, who is a registered nurse and also known as the Savvy
Legal RN. Savannah assist attorneys
nationwide by reviewing medical related cases with a Sharp
HealthCare perspective. Specializing in high risk OB,
(00:55):
maternal fetal medicine, and electronic fetal monitoring
review. Her work bridges the worlds of
nursing and law, giving familiesa voice when things go
tragically wrong in the deliveryroom.
She's here with us to share whatevery parent needs to know about
patient rights, medical records,and how to advocate for yourself
when birth doesn't go as planned.
(01:15):
Savannah, thank you so much for being on here today.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Yes, absolutely.
And I want to start right where so many parents find themselves
in the delivery room or the clinic when things don't go as
plan. And families often feel
powerless in those moments, likethey can't, you know, question,
like they just can't process things.
They question everything or evenjust slow down with what's
(01:38):
happening. So from your perspective as both
a nurse and a legal consult, of course, we would love to hear
why you're so passionate about your work and what you feel like
every parent should know about their rights in these critical
situations. Sure.
So I have a background in OB, I've been an OB nurse for over
17 years. I started in labor and delivery.
(02:01):
And when I was in labor and delivery, I found that I really
do have a passion for patients experiencing loss and and taking
care of those families. And then when I became a little
bit more experienced in my work,I decided to kind of branch off
(02:24):
into like the legal realm of it.And so I'm looking at, you know,
bad outcomes. And a lot of times I get asked
to review records and see, Hey, what's the standard of care met
here? Did we miss something along the
way? And, and sometimes it was and,
you know, I'm here to kind of help those families get a voice,
(02:46):
but also sometimes it was a really tragic outcome that
couldn't be prevented. And I do think that having
somebody like review it and kindof explain that also is able to
bring some peace to people who weren't able to get the debriefs
or answers, you know, from theirmedical team during such a
(03:08):
traumatic experience. So I get to see kind of both
sides of the fence, you know, being a nurse still myself, I'm
clinically active in maternal fetal medicine.
But also seeing the other side of of, you know, patient
experiences and, and people experiencing loss or trauma
after there has been a really traumatic event, you know, still
(03:31):
being able to help them with my medical knowledge.
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Savannah, for
sharing that. And yeah, your passion, you
know, behind your work and the years that you've, you know,
spent alongside patients and still spend alongside them.
I know most of the times, you know, birth plans don't go as
planned regardless of loss or what happens.
But, you know, things pivot and move in different situations and
(03:54):
to really, you know, in those moments with the birthing person
and the baby, you know, monitoring them and everything,
you know. Yeah.
And so in those moments, it is so important to understand, you
know, what you can ask for, whatyou know with with if within
your rights and things like that.
And I think educating is so muchbetter to advocate for yourself
(04:16):
in those situations. For sure.
Yeah. So one of the big things I do
because I work in a prenatal setting, so I see patients as a
nurse in clinic and I'm explaining sometimes really
complex medical conditions to them that maybe the doctor
already explained but used like very technical terms.
(04:40):
You can always ask for it to, you know, be re explained in in
like a different way, like can you rephrase that for me is
totally OK to ask. You can also get your records.
I I think like the number one thing that I'm recommending for
my patients is to download the hospital or the clinic's patient
(05:01):
portal that gives you your labs,your your records and they
belong to you. There was the CARES Act which
came out and, and that means that your automatic, your your
record should be automatically released to you through that.
So a lot of patients are findingthis like patient portal is
(05:22):
helpful because they're not waiting for a call to see if
their labs are abnormal. They're able to reach out to
their provider directly and ask a question.
They're able to see if things have been reviewed by the
medical provider yet. A lot of times patients get the
labs before the nurses or doctors even get a chance to
look at it. Sometimes it gives you a chance
(05:44):
to to process that information before the doctor comes to you.
And so that you know, like what questions to ask.
So that's always one thing that I recommend to my patients
prenatally to, to be more involved in their care and to
have access to those records. Absolutely.
And so, yeah, like you're saying, that's all under and
(06:07):
they have ownership to all of that.
All the test results, Labs notes, everything belongs to the
patient. So that's something that they
can find in their portals, they can pull it and then they can
review it. Right.
And if like you're going to, youknow, sometimes smaller clinics
don't have an online portal, youstill you should still be able
to get your medical records. You just might have to go
(06:28):
through their like health information or sign a release.
Absolutely. And is there a time frame that
they have to be able to provide those records to you within?
You know, I think that that eachhospital policy has like
probably something different. They should not be, you know,
withholding them for a long time.
(06:49):
Sometimes it can take, you know,a week to get, you know, prior
results through medical records.But if the hospital has a
patient portal, you should be able to get those released
immediately. OK, Now that's good to know,
Savannah. Yeah.
And just understanding if there was any laws around that or
maybe that is something someday,you know, that will change, you
(07:11):
know that it has to be within a certain time frame and all of
those things. So.
Yeah, when you're going to like a health information or health
management and signing the release form, somebody has to
manually go in and extract thoserecords.
So it does, you know, take some time, but it it shouldn't take
weeks. Yes.
OK. No, that's good to understand.
(07:31):
Yeah. And you were talking about how
language matters. And it really does because in
those moments when you're being thrown all this medical jargon
and you're not understanding it,and then you're trying to make
critical decisions, you know, especially when it comes to the
health of you, your baby, in those moments.
And everything is so heightened.I think it's, you know, language
(07:52):
can either shut doors or they can open them in so many ways
with patients. So, you know, you've shared some
of the grounding phrases that, you know, we talked about
before, like how to really empower parents to have that
voice. Like, can you rephrase that?
But then also like things like I'm concerned about or what are
all their alternatives or ways that parents can ask for things
(08:14):
in those moments? Right.
So I always tell my patients as well, like if there's something
that you're not understanding orsomething that you're worried
about in healthcare, we we focusa lot about like communication
and especially in Oba lot of thenurses and providers all have,
(08:39):
you know, like a professional organization.
Like for OB, it's a one the Association of Women's Health,
Obstetric and Neonatal nurses. The physicians have a cog, the
American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists, and they talk
about the perinatal communication and one of the
things that we bring up frequently, and they're called
cuss words, not like swearing, but it's, I'm concerned about or
(09:04):
I'm uncomfortable with this. I, I'm concerned about the
safety of this. And when nurses bring those
phrases up to providers, it's kind of like a stop.
Like let's talk about this. And patients can use those words
too. So I always tell my patients, if
there's something that you're you're concerned about or that
(09:27):
isn't making sense to you or you're uncomfortable with, use
that language, the provider is or should be aware of that
language to, to mean like, OK, Ineed to, I need to think about
this. I need to slow down.
I need to make sure that we're all on the same page here.
Another thing is informed consent is huge in OB And I, I
(09:50):
think that's a big, a big feeling with, with people that
have experienced like a loss or trauma because they felt
sometimes like they weren't informed.
And so one thing that you can doas a patient too, is to ask
like, what are the benefits of this?
What are the risks of this? Are there any alternatives to
(10:11):
this? And, and your provider should
already be, you know, explainingall of those things to you, but
using that language as well as like kind of talking in like
medical talk back to them. Like, tell me why I should do
this. Give me some time to think about
this and explain to me what likethe benefit is so that I can
(10:32):
make an informed choice about mycare.
Sometimes if patients are like, you know, I just don't feel
comfortable asking my doctor or,you know, my midwife or whoever
about it, or I just feel like like pressured into a certain
situation or I, I feel like uncomfortable asking.
(10:55):
I explained to them to like, sometimes adding like a human
element to it helps. Sometimes, like I'll even say to
my doctors, like, if I was your sister or your best friend, what
would you tell me? Because it reminds them that I'm
not just a patient, I'm a person.
And there's people that care about me and care about my
(11:19):
outcomes. Like what would you tell
somebody that you loved about this situation, about this
disease, about this risk? Like what would you tell
somebody that you cared about? And I think that that kind of
helps reframe things for the healthcare provider as well.
If somebody asks me like that, I, I would love that.
(11:39):
I would love to sit down and chat with you like you're my
best friend or you're my sister and just explain everything like
that. And I, I do think that that
helps build a rapport with your patients.
And if your provider is able to do that, and if they're not, you
can find another provider. Right.
(12:01):
Yeah, so important. And to feel that connection
because your life, your baby's life are in their hands.
And so having that person that can validate you, you know, make
you feel seen and heard, all of your concerns are addressed.
It's so important in those moments because if something
were to go wrong to the other extreme where it goes towards
loss, you know, and, and things like that, like the traumas,
(12:23):
it's like how can you in those moments feel like you can trust
that person? Right.
And I mean, making healthcare decisions after you've already
experienced like a really traumatic event or loss, it gets
really hard to trust somebody that you've just met that you
don't know with like the most important decisions of your
life, right? I, I get that as a nurse,
(12:46):
sometimes we get so busy in our own like care of our patients
that we forget that, that they are trying to navigate the
system through trauma and that, that it's hard for them to trust
us. So I need to be able to, like,
open that bridge up so that my patients can trust me and feel
safe and, you know, be able to make decisions in their own
(13:12):
time. And so one other thing that I
also advocate for my patients isyou can ask, is this an
emergency? Do I have time to decide?
You can say, can I have a few minutes?
Can you step outside of the roomso I can think about this?
And, you know, I work in maternal fetal medicine.
(13:34):
So sometimes we see things that are unexpected on ultrasound,
right? And then everybody's, you know,
worst fear comes to mind like, Oh my gosh, I need answers.
Sometimes the providers will recommend like an amniocentesis
or ACVS, which is another form of genetic testing.
(13:58):
And sometimes that that doesn't need to be done emergently.
Sometimes like parents just needto go home and think about what
that information would mean for them, if it would be meaningful
in like future decision making. And I always try and give the
patients space when they're in the clinic to think about that.
(14:19):
But sometimes they don't understand, like this is an an
emergency. You don't need to do it today.
And I think going home and sleeping on it and thinking
about what it would mean for your care, Like, is it going to
change anything for you? Is it going to cause more worry?
Are there other tests that are less invasive that could also
give you answers? And those are all like good
(14:42):
questions to be able to ask yourprovider, but you might not be
able to think of them right away.
Yes, especially in those momentswhen you're really spiraling,
like you're really thinking it'soverwhelming.
You're hearing different things that are scary and potentially
could you know, lead to something else.
And sometimes, you know, having more education, you do you want
(15:05):
that or sometimes you don't. And I think it, you know, based
on patient to patient. But in those moments when
someone is looking For more information or trying to
understand so that they can makethe best decision for
themselves, is, is crucial. And you know, hearing it
different ways presented, even sometimes I know in our moments,
I needed things said four different ways and they were
(15:27):
saying the exact same thing. But it was because I was so like
I was trying to focus. And it's really hard in those
moments to actually do that. It's like, did I hear you?
Like I, I heard you. I just, I'm not listening.
I can't like process it. And so then can you repeat that
or can you say that again? And you know, having that
though, to be able to then take it and sit with it and not
(15:48):
feeling rushed in those amendments because a lot of
times, you know, we hear that insupport group from others who
they're just feel like a number and it's not just a number to
them, it's them and their baby. Right, right.
Yeah. Taking that time, you know, can
really bring Peace of Mind. Either way, you might decide,
like, this is absolutely something I want done.
(16:09):
I want it done as soon as possible.
I want to know everything about it.
Or you may say, you know, this is not really going to give me
any information. I'm not going to do anything
differently, but it gives me time.
Right. Yeah.
And not rush phenom. Yeah, that's huge.
Yeah, unless it is a rush situation.
But educating them on that, saying this is something that we
do need to decide pretty immediately.
(16:30):
So let's talk through everythingtogether or this is, you know,
something that but that's so important.
Savannah. Yeah.
Yeah, asking like when do I needto make this decision by?
Gas. You know, you know, how long can
I wait? Those are those are questions
that any provider should be ableto, to answer.
(16:51):
They can give the recommendationif it's, you know, a true
emergency, they may say, I thinkyou or you know, your baby's
life are at risk right now. And, you know, obviously that
changes everything, but sometimes you need to to hear
when it's an emergency and when it's not an emergency because
(17:14):
like when you find out new information, everything might
feel like an emergency. And if you don't have to make
these decisions emergently, thatcan really help like process
and, you know, help with your own Peace of Mind.
So for sure, you know, bringing people with you to the hospital
(17:35):
so that they can also ask those questions is helpful because
sometimes you're just you're only hearing pieces of what the
provider is saying. Because there are certain things
that are like sticking out to you and you know, somebody else
might be able to hear it differently or might be able to
(17:57):
ask the questions that they knowthat you would want answered.
So, you know, making sure that you can bring somebody with you.
If you're not able to bring somebody with you, having
somebody on speakerphone or you know, a lot of insurance
companies are also like coveringdoulas.
Now I'm seeing a lot more doulasin clinics.
(18:17):
So having somebody there that can advocate for you when you're
unable to really speak what you want is helpful.
Yes, absolutely. Having that support person, if
it's not your partner, if it's not some, just someone that you
can trust, even if it is outsideand doulas, you know, being
educated on both navigating the hospital and all the dynamics
(18:40):
there, but then understanding your birth plan and being like
someone that's kind of removed emotionally from everything can
be so important and imperative in those moments.
Yeah, for sure, yeah. And having them, you know, with
you prenatally as well as in thehospital can really help.
You know, it's not just about like being there at delivery,
(19:04):
but along the way because you know, that's sometimes the point
when you know decisions are needing to be made is before you
even get to. Delivery, absolutely, yeah.
Yeah. That sounds great, Yeah.
And let's talk about navigating hospitals and providers.
You know, especially teaching hospitals can feel very
(19:25):
overwhelming. There's like interns, residents,
attendings, nurses, and so many people coming in and out of your
room or especially if you're having to go into the hospital
to be on bed rest or whatever that looks like.
And try and understand who you ask questions to or who are the
right people and who's going to be, you know, if you need to get
(19:45):
surgery, like who are the ones that are going to be in the
rooms with you? All of those things, like what
should parents know about the hierarchy?
OK. So that's a great question.
Teaching hospitals often have a lot of like doctors in training.
So they're called residents. Sometimes you'll hear them
called interns. That's their first year.
Then you'll also hear. You know, a junior and senior
(20:09):
residents, they're there for typically four years as an
OBGYN. The OBGYN residency is about
four years and each of those residents are responsible for OB
care. But the answer to an attending
doctor and an attending OB is somebody that has been through
(20:30):
medical school and is an obstetrician gynecologist and
they have a board certification,they're fully trained and they
are responsible for training theother doctors.
And so sometimes you may be getting mixed information from
(20:51):
different providers and you can always say, you know, I have
some questions for the attending, you know, can can an
attending round today so that wecan talk about the plan of care
going forward. I just want to hear their input.
And it's not dismissing the lessexperienced providers, but you
(21:14):
have the right to ask for that, to know if I need surgery, who's
going to be performing my surgery?
Is it, am I going to have students in there?
Am I going to have medical students?
Am I going to have, I mean, they're not going to be
performing the surgery, but you know, who is responsible for my
care? Who is going to be present?
(21:34):
Those are all good things to like ask while you're in the
hospital. Also, when you're in the
hospital, understand that yes, there's people learning, but you
don't need to be the Guinea pig.I, you know, I hate to, to say
it like that, but they are learning something from you, but
(21:58):
you don't have to say yes. And one example that I see
frequently is cervical exams. And that can be really traumatic
for people that have experiencedloss or have experienced other
traumatic events in their life. And it should always be asked.
It should never, it should neverjust be said, hey, I'm going to
(22:21):
check your cervix now. No, they should be asking for
permission. Is it OK if I check your cervix?
And if they say, you know, is itOK for me to check your cervix?
And then is it OK for this otherdoctor to check after me?
You don't have to say yes to that if it doesn't bother you
and you're fine with it. But that's another story.
(22:42):
But I always want patients to know that consent is, is still
consent at the at the hospital. You have to be able to consent
to your care and so asking permission is important for any
time somebody is laying hands onyou.
Absolutely, yeah. And.
(23:04):
When you're at an OB office or you're getting, you know,
treated through your pregnancy and things, you know, they might
have 8 or 10 doctors on the teamand you don't know who's going
to deliver you. So when you get there, you could
just be meeting that OB that first time and they're getting
ready and you don't know who is the OB, who's in charge.
And if you're going into surgerywith all the bright lights,
(23:25):
laying on a table, not really seeing anything because the
thing's up, it's really hard to know in those moments you know
who is treating you. Yeah.
And, and you're allowed to say like, can I talk to the
attending that's going to be there for my delivery?
And I mean, if you want to, you know, tell them anything about
your previous experiences, That's, that's OK too, to like
(23:48):
talk about what has happened andwhat you're worried about.
If you don't want to share, you know, your, your previous
trauma, that's OK too. Sometimes patients do like
explaining that to their doctor,like, Hey, I just want you to
know that this previous thing happened to me and this is what
I'm concerned about happening again or going forward.
(24:12):
And, and sometimes that's helpful as a provider to know
because sometimes if you're coming new to our system and we
don't have any documentation about what happened in your last
delivery, we may not know like the underlying story or, or what
what happened to you. And if you want to share that, I
(24:34):
think, you know, sometimes that can be really important with
your relationship with the provider so that they also have
an understanding of what you've been through.
And it, it kind of like humanizes people more
understanding like what somebodyhas been through to get to where
(24:58):
they are now. But by all means, if you aren't
ready to Share your story, you don't have to Share your story.
You can just say, I've had a previous traumatic experience or
I, you know, and I don't want totalk about it.
But sometimes sharing what has happened with your new provider
can can help establish trust with your new provider as well,
because they can understand whatyou've been through and they may
(25:19):
take different steps. They may explain things
differently. They may make sure that they're
talking more than like what theynormally would when they're
explaining what's happening in the in the situation.
Sometimes you have a provider that you've seen your whole
pregnancy and you know that they're not going to be
(25:42):
delivering you for whatever reason.
And so you've like, you know, built a relationship with them.
You can ask them, you know, for recommendations for like maybe
building a birth plan together. Like if it's a provider that you
trust, you're like, you could bring in your birth plan
(26:04):
prenatally and just say, Hey, I,I trust you.
I know that you're not going to be there for my delivery, but
can we talk about what my preferences are and so that they
can be like communicated effectively to the next
provider? Sometimes that's really helpful.
And having that when a patient enters the system and, and you
(26:25):
know, has like a medical record,having that birth plan in their
medical record so that all the providers can see it even before
they come in is helpful. That's usually scanned in and
sometimes that can take like a week to get scanned into the
medical record. So turning it in or reviewing it
with your provider earlier in your pregnancy, you know, 30
(26:46):
something weeks before you deliver can can be helpful.
Having that established in placelike a catastrophic birth plan.
And I had never thought of that before, but I, it really got me
thinking about like these, you know, families that have
experienced loss and like their brain always goes to like, worst
(27:07):
case scenario, like, what would I want to happen?
Because that's a trauma response.
You know, for sure after you've already experienced something,
you're afraid of it happening again and you're afraid of
losing that autonomy in the situation and like the control.
And so it was a really interesting episode about
(27:29):
putting on paper like, who should make choices for you in
an emergency? Who should be updated?
Do you want pictures or video taken?
If you're not available to do that, are there any spiritual or
cultural wishes that you want the staff to honor?
You can address like emergency surgery or hysterectomy in
(27:51):
there. You can talk about like blood
transfusion decisions or preferences.
If you're in the ICU and you're intubated, do you want to be
pumped for breast milk? Like making that choice ahead of
time for what happens to your body.
Although it's like very, you know, a traumatic and sometimes
a triggering thing to think about.
(28:13):
I can see how it would be beneficial to have it on paper
and at least have that like clarity and and Peace of Mind
that you're able to express yourpreferences ahead of time.
I mean, I never ever want patients to have to use that,
but sometimes saying if the worst thing happens, this is
(28:34):
what I want, this is my, this ismy preference.
And I just thought that was kindof a, a cool take on it and and
something that patients can do, you know, when their mind
doesn't stop going to like worstcase scenario.
Especially when you've experienced, I know from
personally, you know, going through loss and then getting
pregnant again and pregnancy after loss.
And it's hard not to go like you're saying, Savannah, to
(28:56):
those extremes because you've already experienced one of the
worst case scenario outcomes. Well, for a parent, you know,
the worst case scenario. So if something were to happen
in the next delivery, because it, you know, we already know it
didn't go as planned the first time.
So what does this look like? You know, and understanding that
and then having your care team apart of it.
So, you know, it's interesting because I know walking into
(29:20):
before we delivered pregnancy after loss, saying to my
husband, these are the things I wanted, but this is also an
emotional experience for him. This is his baby, this is his
wife on the table. So how can you know?
And he might not be thinking in those moments or staying level
headed either. So how can you do a better job
of communicating that to your team?
So if you are, if you have a great relationship with your
(29:44):
doctor beforehand, they probablyalready know where your head is
at with, you know, this next pregnancy and everything that
you're, you know, going through and dealing with and the, and
the trauma that you've experienced.
And you can explain to them likeI've kind of made a plan in
case, you know, things don't go as planned again.
Can you make sure this is in my medical record and that it's
noted that it's in there so thatpeople know to look for it?
(30:07):
If you are admitted to the hospital for an induction of
Labor that you're, you know, very nervous about or that you
have, you know, some other admission to the hospital that
you're going to be there for a prolonged period of time, If
there is a nurse that you feel connected with, you can always
(30:29):
ask them to like, can you help be my, like advocate for this?
A lot of times, you know, labor can be long and exhausting, and
you're already maybe emotionallyexhausted by the time you even
get to the delivery room. And so asking the nurse to be
(30:50):
your advocate and saying like, hey, this is how I want things
to go down and these are my preferences.
Can we talk about it? Can we go through my birth plan
like point by point, like right when you know, when you get
there to to say, like I this will help me at ease it it will
bring me, you know, some peace. And nurses know that when
(31:13):
birthing people feel safe, they're able to to to give birth
better. It just it when you feel safe,
you have a better experience, your body can do what it needs
to do when you feel safe. We don't want our patients to
feel triggered. And if there's something that
(31:35):
we're talking about or doing that makes you feel a certain
way, we want you to tell us so that you feel safe the whole
time you're in our care. Sometimes families mean well and
they want to be there to supportyou because they know that
you've had, you know, this traumatic experience.
And so you've got, like, sisters, friends, cousins,
(31:58):
whoever you want, you know, to be in your delivery the second
time around. And that can be really
overwhelming for a lot of people.
And it's hard sometimes for patients to feel not overwhelmed
when there's so many voices in the room and you know, people
forget that this is like a life changing experience for you.
(32:23):
Like you're, you're birthing a baby.
It's not like a party. You know, sometimes they're in
there just like eating and loud and you know, and it's, it's
hard to focus on yourself and and your baby and you know how
you want your birth outcome to be.
(32:44):
So sometimes I'll, when I was a labor and delivery nurse, I had
a code word with my patients when I would admit them,
especially if they had, you know, previous trauma or they or
they had shared with me. Like I'm really overwhelmed just
being here. I'm just, I'm scared this is
(33:05):
this is something that, you know, like I'm really struggling
with. I would say, what is your least
favorite juice? And most people would say
cranberry or orange. And I would say, ask me for some
cranberry juice and I'll know that's our code word.
I'll just say, OK, I'll go and I'll pretend to look and I'll
say, unfortunately we don't haveany cranberry juice.
(33:26):
But I do need everybody to step out because I've got to, I've
got to do an assessment. I've got to take care of some
things. So I'm just going to ask you
guys to to step out to the hallway and that will be kind of
like our code to like clear the room and regroup.
Or sometimes if they don't want their family to step out, it can
be like my code to just be like,all right, everybody like, let's
(33:49):
calm down. Let's let's like take some time
to just like relax. Mom here needs, you know, some
some peace, some quiet. What can I do to help you relax
here? Can I give you a back massage?
Can I, you know, give you any like aromatherapy oils?
What can I do to make this room more relaxing for you?
(34:12):
And so sometimes people take a hint then, but having kind of
like a, a code with your nurse can help because they're not
afraid of family. I mean, it's some it's hard to
to ask your family to step out sometimes because.
You don't hurt feelings. You don't hurt feelings, but
(34:34):
also like it's hard to advocate for yourself.
And they're supposed to be thereadvocating for you, but they're
not really understanding or theymaybe lost sight of, hey, this,
this is this is triggering for the person I'm here for.
And so having that that relationship with your nurse can
(34:55):
really be beneficial. Oh.
That's great, Savannah. Yeah, Thank you.
Is there anything that you wouldlove to leave our listeners
with? I know we went over so much.
This has been so educational andI can't thank you enough for
being on here and would love to know, you know what you would
love for everybody to to know. You can ask questions, you can
(35:21):
ask for space, you can set limits.
Saying no is a valid option. Of course.
If you're saying no, I want to make sure that you're, you know,
informed with what you're sayingno to, making sure that you
understand the risks, the benefits, the alternatives.
(35:41):
And if you do, no is an option. And then just remember, your
lived experience gives you insight that matters.
Trust your gut. If you're not vibing with your
nurse, you can always ask for another one.
Your safety during your hospitalization and your peace
(36:03):
matters. So protect your peace and and
don't feel afraid to advocate for yourself.
We want that for you. And if there's any way that you
feel like your nurse can help, you can ask for it.
Thank you, Savannah. Today's conversation with
(36:24):
Savannah reminds us of somethingso important.
Your voice matters, whether it'sin the hospital room, at the
doctor's office. After an unimaginable loss,
parents have rights and parents deserve to be heard.
But this doesn't just end with knowing your rights.
Healing also comes from action, from honoring your baby,
speaking your story out loud, and building a world where every
loss is recognized. At Chasing the Rainbows, we
(36:46):
believe every baby loss matters and every family deserves
support. If you are ready to take the
next step, we invite you to joinus.
Volunteer your time. Host an awareness event in your
community. Share your baby's story with
courage and compassion. Together, we can break the
silence around all these types of baby losses.
To learn more and get involved, visit babylossawareness.org.
(37:06):
There you'll find resources, ways to honor your baby, and
opportunities to be a part of a growing movement.
Because when we stand together, no parent has to grieve alone.
Thank you so much again Savannahfor everything.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
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