December 31, 2025 • 27 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Jeff Burningham
Jeff Burningham has lived on the front edge of success. Serial entrepreneur. Venture investor. Builder of billion-dollar businesses. A candidate for governor. A life defined by scale, momentum, and achievement.
Then the stage collapsed.
In this episode of Cut The Tie, Jeff shares how stepping away from business and politics forced him inward and why the rise of artificial intelligence has clarified what truly matters next. As machines take over more of what humans used to do, Jeff argues that the real work ahead is learning how to be.
This is a conversation about wisdom, presence, identity, and why the future will not be decided by smarter technology alone but by whether humans evolve alongside it.
About Jeff Burningham
Jeff Burningham is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and former candidate for Governor of Utah. He has founded and sold multiple companies across real estate and technology and has been an early investor in several high-growth businesses.
Jeff is the author of The Last Book Written by a Human, a reflection on humanity, wisdom, and the choices we face as artificial intelligence accelerates faster than our cultural and emotional frameworks.
In this episode, Thomas and Jeff discuss:
- Why Jeff ran for governor and what the pandemic revealed
- The “stage of success” and why it eventually falls apart
- Becoming a human being instead of a human doing
- Defining success as living in non-resistance to what is
- Why attachment to outcomes quietly drains meaning
- AI as a mirror reflecting humanity back to itself
- Why wisdom, not intelligence, is the real bottleneck
- How love becomes the only fuel that doesn’t burn out
Key Takeaways
- Doing more does not create fulfillment
Presence matters more than productivity. - Success without wisdom feels hollow
Achievement alone cannot carry meaning. - AI forces a human reckoning
As machines advance, character and awareness matter more. - Outcomes are tools, not identities
You can pursue results without being owned by them. - Growth often begins with deconstruction
Sometimes the stage must collapse to reveal what’s real.
Connect with Jeff Burningham
🌐 Website: https://jeffburningham.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-burningham-15a01a7b/
Connect with Thomas Helfrich
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant: https://www.instantlyrelevant.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tide Podcast.
Once again, I am your host,Thomas Alperk, and I'm on a
mission to help you cut the tideof whatever's holding you back
from success.
First and foremost, though, youneed to define that success on
your terms, otherwise, you'rechasing someone else's dream.
So own your own success.
And today, Jeff, I'm joined byJeff Burningham.
Jeff, how are you?
I'm good, Thomas.
(00:20):
How are you doing?
I'm delicious.
Thank you, Brad.
You are delicious.
If you say that in particular,people are that's for sure.
I like your studio.
It's cool.
Thank you very much.
I uh it's it's a team Ubai.
Um, you can just download it andit's there in your house in a
week.
It's great.
Jeff, why don't you take amoment?
(00:40):
Introduce yourself, where you'refrom, what it is you do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
I'm a serial entrepreneur.
Start and sold several largecompanies in real estate and
technology in 2020, felt luredinto deeper waters.
My subconscious was leading mesomewhere interesting, and ran
for governor in the state ofUtah.
So I grew up in Spokane,Washington, ran uh for statewide
(01:06):
office here in Utah, lost.
The most critical months of thecampaign were March, April, May,
and June of 2020.
So the pandemic.
So lost during that, went intothe summer of 2020 with some
space and time.
And now I've become some kind oflike artist and hippie.
I'm releasing a book called TheLast Book Written by a Human.
(01:28):
That's what I've mainly beenworking on the last several
years.
So there's a one-minutesnapshot.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Yeah, but it's uh, I mean, it's kind of crazy.
Uh the did you blame?
Did you think that the uh youropposing governor and it they
started COVID?
Did you have a fear?
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
No.
No, absolutely not.
I was running against two verywell-known politicians,
actually, one that had run forpresident of the United States,
John Huntsman Jr., he's theformer governor of Utah, and
then the then lieutenantgovernor.
No, when I did kind of my prosand cons list of like, I didn't
really do it like that, but if Idid global pandemic was not on
(02:06):
the list.
That is not something I foresawor foreshadowed.
But in any market, I've seenthis as I built several
billion-dollar companies in anymarket in finance and et cetera,
there is always a flight tosafety when there's that much
disruption.
And that definitely happened,uh, that happens politically as
well.
So there was no way that apolitical outsider like myself
(02:29):
was going to win that race whenthe pandemic hit.
It was going to be one of thetwo well-known political
candidates.
And that became a blessing indisguise, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Well, yeah, it I to any candidate that's not one of
the two main lines is difficultto win.
I mean, it's I I don't even knowif it's possible.
Unless we change a system whereno one party can win more than
two times in a given time, thena third party must introduce,
then you'd have a third partysystem.
But it just creates a trifractof additional craft.
So I don't think it actuallysolves it.
Maybe in the short term.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I I ran in one of the one of themain two lanes.
It's just it's hard to runagainst political incumbents.
Like it's all about name ID.
And in a in a uh globalpandemic, people have more
important things to address,that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Yeah.
What what would I I just askedthis question, maybe what was
the motivation?
Why did you feel compelled torun?
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
Yeah, that's so interesting, Thomas.
Like, what was the motivation?
I mean, there's there's a shortanswer, a quick answer, and a
little bit longer one.
But the quick answer is I I havebuilt um several large companies
in Utah.
I've been the first investor asa venture capitalist in most of
over a dozen billion dollar techcompanies in the state.
(03:41):
There's a lot of technologygrowth here in Utah.
So I have a bird's eye view ofkind of what's coming in the
economy.
And I felt like a an outsiderperspective on that politically
would be helpful.
Utah's facing massive growth.
That is our issue.
So I think it was critical thatwe had a smart plan for growth.
So that's why I thought I ran.
(04:02):
Let me tell you why I reallythink I ran now in hindsight.
My subconscious was taking meoff my little stage.
I mean, to mirror the name ofyour podcast, cut the tie.
You know, I was running amulti-billion dollar private
equity firm, investing$100million in venture capital.
I was on 20 plus boards, afather of four, et cetera, et
(04:25):
cetera.
I had built this little stage,especially of like business
success.
And that stage was beingdeconstructed for me.
My subconscious was taking meoff the stage in order to go
inside myself instead of lookingexternally to go inside.
And uh that's led to this book,the last book written by a
(04:47):
human, Becoming Wise in the Ageof AI.
It's all about humanity and AI.
I think that is the message forour moment.
I think as we continue toinhabit a world with more and
more intelligent machines, we ashumans must become more wise.
So it broke the stage and thenfocused me on what I think I
(05:09):
really should be working on.
That's great.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
I mean, that's far the path.
Um I believe, by the way, thatas more and more technology and
AI and I think people go back tothings like nature and either
things and live events.
So I'm excited for that.
All right, let's bring you alittle bit.
How do you define success?
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
I define success as living in uh non-resistance to
what is number one.
Number two, I I define successfor myself in being able to be.
So in that little stage ofsuccess, like I spoke about,
this little mountain of successthat I had climbed, I had become
(05:49):
a human doing, even addicted todoing.
And so I define success uharound being.
We're human beings, not humandoings.
And in and in an age ofintelligent machines that is
going to do more and more ofwhat we're used to doing better
than we can, what are we leftwith, Thomas?
(06:10):
We are left with our being.
So there'll always be things todo as we're embodied here on
earth.
There's always stuff to getdone.
But what kind of being orpresence or awareness are we
bringing to our doing?
The more being I can bring,that's how I define success.
And then also, like I said,living in non-resistance to what
(06:31):
is, which is not easy becausereality is hard, change is the
only constant, and that's how Idefine success in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
It's solid, it's a unique definition.
It's the first one of its kindin hundreds of interviews.
So two points for Mr.
Dang, slammed up.
Points.
So you can spend them anywhere.
And uh it's good.
Uh take me on a journey here.
So tell me a little bit moreabout you.
I think you you talked about alittle, you already set it up
pretty well, but tell mespecifically on that journey
(07:01):
what the metaphoric ties wereyou had to cut to to achieve
that success.
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
Yeah, um, in my book, I talk about climbing this
little mountain of success.
And I think again, as humans, wekind of look outside of
ourselves for validation.
We look outside of ourselves atfor metrics, for a scoreboard,
like you might say, of how we'redoing.
But what we're really lookingfor, Thomas, and I I've been an
(07:30):
adjunct professor ofentrepreneurship at the
university down the street fromme since the governor run for
the last five years.
I've taught thousands ofstudents.
And I often say to them that themost simple ideas are often the
most powerful and therefore themost neglected.
And I think this is one of them,which is what we are all looking
(07:53):
for is inside of us.
It's not external to us, it'snot outside of us.
Yet that is in the air webreathe.
You know, in America, I grew upin a very high-demand religion.
I was the oldest of six kids.
Um, I, you know, I builtbusiness after business after
business, et cetera, et cetera.
Looking for external validationor some scoreboard that doesn't
(08:16):
exist to prove that, you know, Iwas worthy, I was loved,
whatever the case may be, thatcan only come from inside.
So at the top of this littlemountain, I say in my book,
there's nothing but a cold,howling wind.
And what are you left with?
You there's nowhere to go butdown, picking up the pieces of a
(08:38):
little bit of a tattered life,not because of anything I did
wrong, but just because of thepace that I was keeping.
And you're left to go insideyourself and to sit with, like I
said, that being.
So I think the biggest thingthat I've had to cut in my life,
I'm still working on, especiallythe book launches next week.
So I am in the, I've done 50podcasts in the last two weeks.
(09:00):
I mean, I am doing, doing, doingright now.
Um, it's cutting the tie tobeing a human doing or to doing
too much and instead relaxinginto our being.
That's the hardest tie for me tocut.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Yeah, I mean, it's that uh ties back to old
principles of mindfulness andpresence and uh you know, happy
for you, like that.
You could reference stuff in theBible from stuff 5,000 years
prior to that, that the humanstate is always consumed to what
could have been and what shouldbe.
Yeah, not what is now.
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Yeah, and I'm a strong believer in pronounia.
You just kind of said thedefinition, which is things are
not, this is what living innon-resistance, I think, brings.
Things are not happening to me,they're happening for me.
I think that the universe, I'msaying this in quotes, the
universe is conspiring for ourgood, both individually and
collectively as a society.
(09:56):
And as AI shows up on the scenehardcore here in 2025, we're
left with the real question ofhow can this you know powerful
technology be pointed towardhuman flourishing instead of
human division or destruction.
SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Well, I have a view that it's entropy, you know,
introphy.
And so entropy, sorry, entropy,rarity's down to break down the
next and you see the universe,and uh so you sometimes have to
build things to break them down.
Yeah, yeah, I might be one ofthose things that's built to
break down something else.
So, you know, differentdiscussion.
Once again, another podcast.
(10:35):
We're not starting.
Uh okay.
Sorry, I no, I love it.
Just because I would go down theroute.
It's not you, it's me here.
Okay, I'm telling you right now,it eagle.
You gotta stay focused, Thomas.
Stay focused here, bro.
I'm really good at doing that,otherwise I would nerd out with
you and it'd be two hours later,and we would be like, Okay,
question three.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Yeah, let's just make this a two-hour podcast.
Let's change it up.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
I think the next two guests are gonna appreciate
that.
The uh so along the way, right?
You you you identify whateverelse, right?
What you need, and thedefinition changes, but then
there's the how.
So, how did you kind of takethose steps?
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Yeah, I mean you spoke about breaking things down
to build something morebeautiful.
I think that's the process ofgrowth, growth, and that often
happens, like you said, throughdisruption.
So, what did I break down?
I broke down my ego.
I think this story that we'vebeen telling ourselves for so
long about division, you know,liberal, conservative, white,
(11:35):
black, rich, poor.
I'm I'm trying to throw, youknow, Hindu, Christian, you
know, like those divisions arebeautiful in the diversity that
they bring to life, but they'renot the true underlying essence
of our reality, in my opinion.
I think that at the heart of it,there is a much more powerful
divine unity that unites us.
(11:58):
So um I think that understandingthat anytime that we're with a
fellow human being, there isalways, we always share more in
common than we do different, nomatter our differences.
I think that that's a key to oursuccess.
I think that that's somethingthat will be broken down here in
the age of AI.
(12:18):
And did I answer your question?
But that that that's what cameout.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
Yeah, you are because you're saying you broke
down your ego.
So it's yeah, there's aself-reflection piece.
Uh, you know, we all strugglewith that.
Uh, and usually there's parts inyour life and times in your life
that make that happen.
Uh, and it's they're not alwayspositive, but it but that's I
mean, that's a fantastic that'sa real answer because there's
one thing, oh, I made a list orthe like the end of the day, you
got to do something internally,change that.
(12:43):
And and that's that's a course.
Uh maybe maybe the differentkind of question.
Uh, what are you kind of mostgrateful for though today?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
My wife, Sally, you know, my soulmate.
Like you could strip everythingaway, Thomas.
Like, strip everything that wejust spoke about AI and podcasts
and money and you know, whateverelse.
Just strip it away.
And I think existence is aboutlove and it's about a love
story.
(13:13):
We all have our own lovestories, and so that's what I'm
most grateful for, of course,Thomas.
I'm grateful for my, you know,unique love story, my wife, Sal,
my soulmate, and our we havefour beautiful children.
And I'm actually a grandfather.
I have a grandson, aone-year-old grandson.
Things happen quick out here inUtah.
And um, so yeah, that's what I'mthat's what I'm most thankful
(13:37):
for.
No doubt about it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Which one of your kids is your favorite?
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
I don't have a favorite, Thomas.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
You can't we all do rock.
It changes day to day.
There's a list.
Yeah, the ones you can't.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
Okay, that's easy.
My my favorite, um, and myfavorite is my youngest son,
James, because he's still in inour house.
Uh, my only daughter, Claire, isleaving for college in two
weeks.
So she's here now, but she'll begone leaving us in two weeks.
So we'll have three in college,one still at home.
So my favorite is the one stillat home with me.
He's a freshman in high school.
unknown (14:10):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
I tell my kids uh they're I freak.
I like one of you best and oneof you least.
I'm not telling you who.
And and they're like, well, weknow who's who's number one
right now.
We just don't know who's two orthree.
So I love you all, butdifferently because you're
different people.
Yeah, for sure.
What's uh what's kind of thecurrent tie in your life though?
You're struggling to cut.
(14:33):
I think I'll let me rephrasethat, or you're you're
struggling to admit you need tocut it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
No, I know what I need to cut.
I'm I'm self-aware, Thomas.
Like I've got a lot of workstill to do.
I've done a lot of work, but I'maware.
I I need to cut my tie tooutcomes.
Uh explain that a little bit.
The joys in the journey.
Like that we're on a journey, anadventure together.
This existence is an adventure.
(14:59):
It's a heroic journey that we'reall on, again, individually in
our own hero's journey.
But I think humanity's on acollective heroic journey too.
And too often we are tied tooutcomes that we have too much
of a vested interest in.
So, for instance, right now I'mlaunching this book.
I'm on the edge of the New YorkTimes list.
Does it really matter if I makethe New York Times list?
(15:22):
I mean, I it only does to me inas much as it gets the message
out there, which I'm verypassionate about.
Again, I think it's the messagefor our day and moment, but that
doesn't really matter in theend.
And whether I do four podcaststoday or five, it doesn't really
matter.
I'll tell you this.
This is something I learned inthe artistic process, if I could
(15:43):
in writing this book.
It was about the process.
And in some ways, I'm already aquote unquote winner in writing
the book because writing itchanged me.
I am changed because I wrote thebook.
Whether 10,000 people read it or10 million people read it, it
doesn't really matter.
(16:03):
But that's hard to let go of.
So that attachment to outcome, anumber on a scoreboard.
I was a quarterback in highschool and point guard.
So winning every game, whateveryour bank account says, you
know, how many deals did youclose this quarter?
Those are outcomes that we canwork towards, but I think we
should be a little less attachedto, a little less grippy, like
(16:25):
let go of um outcomes.
That's what I need to work onright now.
It's what I am working on as thebook launches August 19th.
So in like five days from whenwe're recording, that's what I'm
uh looking to let go of.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
You know, it's it's it's it's a balance of enjoying
the present and not allowingyourself to get complacent with
the excuse of I'm not worriedabout the outcome.
Yeah.
And so there's like there's abalance because you got to get
some stuff done.
And so, like, you know, I I needthe I need to make that.
I there's basics, but like youdon't have to obsess on it.
You can enjoy if it gets thereor not.
But I can see like if youmisapply that, you might create
(17:01):
the ability, fair enough tocreate an excuse.
You're not doing it, it soundslike yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
No, I well, I think maybe change the motivation.
We all burn on fuel, some kindof fuel.
Some of it's uh I'll call itdirty fuel, you know.
Let's call it coal, but it'slike hate, greed, you know, like
whatever, like showing somethingagain, it's external validation.
That's dirtier fuel that burnsout.
What I would say, Thomas, is thefuel that is inexhaustible is
(17:28):
love.
Love only multiplies.
And so my point is we've got toinfuse all our doing.
And I've got to remember thatI'm releasing this book because
I love people, I love humanity.
I want AI to help us becomebetter together.
And so, yeah, that that's the umthat's the fuel behind
(17:51):
everything that I try to do.
And so, yeah, I think it'sreframing maybe what our
motivations are.
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
What's some of the um best or worst business advice
you've ever received?
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
These are good questions.
Point in.
Do more.
Do more.
Work sorry, sorry, we're worst.
Do more.
We're on the work harder.
Yeah, I think, I think, I thinkwork harder, do more, something
like that.
You know, like you could alwaysbe doing more.
You know, of another funny book.
(18:26):
I told a little bit about mybackground.
I was so busy.
And some for some reason Idecided to add MBA to my resume
amidst all that busyness that Ispoke about.
And so I could only do that onnights and weekends, of course,
because I was so busy.
I was sitting in a leadershipclass, and this started to wake
me up.
I was seeing a leadership class,and our professor said, think of
(18:48):
the most motivating thing to youright now.
Think of what is motivating youmore than anything.
And I sat there fully blank andempty.
My, you know, my colleaguesaround me started writing and
typing on their key on theirlaptops.
I could think of nothing.
Two things finally came, neitherof which I'm proud of.
(19:09):
One was a I grew up in the 80sand 90s, so I'm like kind of a
product of MTV.
So you've maybe heard of yo MTVraps and a badass cribs episode.
It was kind of a vision of that,a big party, very few, you know,
scantily clad people, illicitsubstances.
Now, as a very devout um Mormonand Christian, that is something
(19:34):
I had no idea about.
But somehow that freedom wasalluring to me.
The second vision that I had,which was even more scary and
actually led me to start meetingwith my first ever therapist,
was me quietly closing mylaptop, putting it in my bag,
driving 15 minutes down the roadto the Salt Lake City Airport,
(19:57):
getting on a plane to thefurthest imaginable.
Place and just disappearing,disappearing forever from it
all, from my soulmate Sal, myfour precious children, my
business partners, the companiesthat I love, the financial
empire that I was building.
I was under so much pressure andstress that I that was the only
(20:24):
thing motivating to me.
So I think the fallacy or theworst advice we can sometimes
take is do more.
No, we need to be more.
We are, you know, like we needto lean into our being.
This hustle culture, this I talkin the book about an old game
versus a new game.
This old kind of game of hustle,greed, hate, war, division, that
(20:48):
game is crescendoing inhumanity, in my opinion, or it
needs to, because you can'tlayer on this godlike technology
of AI and have our children andgrandchildren's futures be
better.
It just can't happen.
So we need to transition to anew game, like I've said, that's
much more about being and aboutlove.
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
You are humans are recreated in a pattern.
Yeah.
We will repeat history justbecause we're not that much
different than people 5,000years ago, just a different set
of tools.
And uh, and that's not a badpick, it's just what it is.
I believe we're not even oncrescond, there's no circle.
We're in the roaring 20s rightnow.
(21:29):
And uh and it's so whateverwhatever happened about 20, you
know, 100 years ago is probablygonna happen again.
Uh we'll see if we can stop awar or two.
SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
But uh we need more pattern breakers right now,
Thomas.
Let me just we need patternbreakers.
We need people to push theedges.
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
I think that the the hustle culture is a good thing
because that's how edges getpushed, and then there's a
rebound from it.
It's like a ship that's rocked,it rocks the other way.
At some point it settles, andthen something rocks it again,
some exterior fork.
And so I think it's all it it iswhat it is because that's how
it's supposed to be kind ofidea.
And so anyway, moving on, if youcould go back to any part in
(22:04):
your timeline, anywhere, whenwould you go back?
What would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Yeah, I'm not sure I would go back, number one, but
number two, if you're saying youhave to.
SPEAKER_01 (22:17):
No, don't have to.
Your answer could be I am goodwhere I am.
SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
Yeah, I don't think I would go back.
I mean, but it but let me justsay one thought.
If I could, I would go back20-ish years to a young married
guy with young kids, and I wouldsay, slow down, like breathe.
Everything is gonna be okay,it's all going to work out.
Enjoy it, you know.
(22:41):
I won't I share another storyabout kind of missing the first
year of my only daughter's lifeand how I held her in this pool
and just she looked at me withher crystal green eyes and just
was like, Daddy, like, are youhere?
Are you with me?
Where have you been?
And I had realized I missed thatfirst year of her life, you
(23:02):
know, largely because I was sobusy, I could never get that
back.
So I would tell myself in myearly and mid-20s to just chill
out a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Yeah, you could have just said Bitcoin too, just buy
it like that.
That's true.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
You yeah, I should have now, I all of us should
have not built any businessesthe last decade, not sweated out
and just invested fully intoBitcoin, and we all would have
almost all of us would have donebetter.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Yeah, live in an apartment for like five years
and put everything into it.
Um, you know, the kids' pieces,and anyone listening at this
point, I will tell you listen,this is heads up.
You you're uh you're gonna havethe regret no matter how much
time you think you give to yourkids.
It's either gonna be I didn'tfocus on my business enough, now
I can't provide something.
Don't sweat it.
Uh I would it is crushing thoughwhen like videos come up and
(23:48):
you're like, you see like my sonor something, and like you know,
he was a tough kick through hiscolicky, and then you know,
whatever.
It just was hard to settle.
It was just like I don'tremember those years either.
Sometimes I'm like intentionallychecked out for like four or
five years just because I'mlike, it was so hard to sleep
because you for like four years,didn't kid sleep two hours time.
It was like I'm sad.
I wish I would have known aboutmelatonin back then.
(24:08):
Anyway, um well anyway.
So my point is I I I apologizefor saying that because the
truth is many of us need to justtake it for what it is, except
that you know your first yearthat you you feel like you're
absent gives you the lesson nowto be present more often, and
that might matter now.
So it's all it's all good to go.
Um if there was a question todayI should have asked you though,
(24:29):
and I didn't, what would thatquestion have been and how would
you have answered it?
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
Why why should my listeners uh check out the last
book written by a human?
Um, this is a book for ourmoment in time.
Uh, I wrote it with my fullheart and soul.
You will feel that, even if youdon't know me, you will feel
that on every page.
This book was meant to be, it'smeant to be a conversation
(24:55):
starter that leads to a humanmovement.
The last section of the book isis around evolution.
And I talk about evolving themost important institutions, you
know, like human relationship,education, reforming religious
religion, excuse me, consciouscapitalism, and then a human
(25:16):
political movement that I thinkis direly needed.
So um that that's the purpose ofthe book.
It's meant to get peopletalking.
I think that AI is a cosmicmirror to humanity, it's a
reflection to us.
We get to look in the mirror andthen decide what we change.
Let's make a more beautifulfuture together.
(25:37):
So that's what I'd say.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
I love that.
That's uh I'm excited to readit.
And I promise I won't use justGPT to read it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Yeah, will you please buy a cop and Thomas?
I have no idea how I bled intothis.
And you told me before westarted, I'm just gonna GPT it.
Come on, dude.
Let's go.
Maybe I'll just be buying acopy, share it with your friends
and family.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
I'll read it.
But but I generally do readbooks.
The only ones I don't are theones that are too thick.
SPEAKER_00 (26:07):
You'll like this.
It's not thick, it's like 40,000words.
It's a page turner, very short,about 30 very short, quick
chapters.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
I will I will I will do that.
I like audiobooks, by the way.
And so you want me to record youaudio is my voice on he's a sexy
voice guy.
It will hit, I swear.
Okay.
Oh yeah.
Who should get a hold of you, orwhere should someone go?
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Yeah, anyone that's deconstructing right now, that's
questioning uh why they're here,what is reality, and where do we
go to build a bright future forAI?
So I think anyone that has thosequestions should follow the
journey, should order the book,should check it out.
And then let me know what youthink.
Again, I'm trying to start aconversation here.
(26:50):
The best way to follow that isjust to go to my website,
jeffburningham.com.
That's like burningham.com.
And then I'm a, you know, I havevery mixed feelings about social
media.
I'm not great at it.
I don't love it, but I'm tryingto speak to the people where
they're at.
So pretty much every socialmedia platform, including I
launched a Substack earlier thisweek, I think TikTok two weeks
(27:12):
ago, is just at Jeff Burningham.
SPEAKER_01 (27:17):
I'm with you on the social media.
You put a there is a number thatI will put into a bank account
with 5% interest that willrequire me to delete all social
media.
Yeah, so it's gonna I'll saygoodbye.
And they're like, what?
Like it doesn't matter.
I'm good.
Uh thank you, Jeff.
I I love these kind ofconversations and I truly
appreciate you just I knowyou're busy as hell.
So thank you for coming on theshow today.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Thomas, thanks for taking time.
It's good to be with you.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
I really appreciate it.
And listen, anyone who's stillhere, still here, I'm talking to
you now.
Uh, if this is your first time,I hope it's the first of many.
And if you've been here before,thank you for returning every
time I say this.
Go out there, get out there, cuta tie to whatever's holding you
back from that success, whichyou define for yourself.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Cut the Tide Podcast.
Once again, I am your host,Thomas Alperk, and I'm on a
mission to help you cut the tideof whatever's holding you back
from success.
First and foremost, though, youneed to define that success on
your terms, otherwise, you'rechasing someone else's dream.
So own your own success.
And today, Jeff, I'm joined byJeff Burningham.
Jeff, how are you?
I'm good, Thomas.
(00:20):
How are you doing?
I'm delicious.
Thank you, Brad.
You are delicious.
If you say that in particular,people are that's for sure.
I like your studio.
It's cool.
Thank you very much.
I uh it's it's a team Ubai.
Um, you can just download it andit's there in your house in a
week.
It's great.
Jeff, why don't you take amoment?
(00:40):
Introduce yourself, where you'refrom, what it is you do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
I'm a serial entrepreneur.
Start and sold several largecompanies in real estate and
technology in 2020, felt luredinto deeper waters.
My subconscious was leading mesomewhere interesting, and ran
for governor in the state ofUtah.
So I grew up in Spokane,Washington, ran uh for statewide
(01:06):
office here in Utah, lost.
The most critical months of thecampaign were March, April, May,
and June of 2020.
So the pandemic.
So lost during that, went intothe summer of 2020 with some
space and time.
And now I've become some kind oflike artist and hippie.
I'm releasing a book called TheLast Book Written by a Human.
(01:28):
That's what I've mainly beenworking on the last several
years.
So there's a one-minutesnapshot.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Yeah, but it's uh, I mean, it's kind of crazy.
Uh the did you blame?
Did you think that the uh youropposing governor and it they
started COVID?
Did you have a fear?
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
No.
No, absolutely not.
I was running against two verywell-known politicians,
actually, one that had run forpresident of the United States,
John Huntsman Jr., he's theformer governor of Utah, and
then the then lieutenantgovernor.
No, when I did kind of my prosand cons list of like, I didn't
really do it like that, but if Idid global pandemic was not on
(02:06):
the list.
That is not something I foresawor foreshadowed.
But in any market, I've seenthis as I built several
billion-dollar companies in anymarket in finance and et cetera,
there is always a flight tosafety when there's that much
disruption.
And that definitely happened,uh, that happens politically as
well.
So there was no way that apolitical outsider like myself
(02:29):
was going to win that race whenthe pandemic hit.
It was going to be one of thetwo well-known political
candidates.
And that became a blessing indisguise, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Well, yeah, it I to any candidate that's not one of
the two main lines is difficultto win.
I mean, it's I I don't even knowif it's possible.
Unless we change a system whereno one party can win more than
two times in a given time, thena third party must introduce,
then you'd have a third partysystem.
But it just creates a trifractof additional craft.
So I don't think it actuallysolves it.
Maybe in the short term.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I I ran in one of the one of themain two lanes.
It's just it's hard to runagainst political incumbents.
Like it's all about name ID.
And in a in a uh globalpandemic, people have more
important things to address,that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Yeah.
What what would I I just askedthis question, maybe what was
the motivation?
Why did you feel compelled torun?
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
Yeah, that's so interesting, Thomas.
Like, what was the motivation?
I mean, there's there's a shortanswer, a quick answer, and a
little bit longer one.
But the quick answer is I I havebuilt um several large companies
in Utah.
I've been the first investor asa venture capitalist in most of
over a dozen billion dollar techcompanies in the state.
(03:41):
There's a lot of technologygrowth here in Utah.
So I have a bird's eye view ofkind of what's coming in the
economy.
And I felt like a an outsiderperspective on that politically
would be helpful.
Utah's facing massive growth.
That is our issue.
So I think it was critical thatwe had a smart plan for growth.
So that's why I thought I ran.
(04:02):
Let me tell you why I reallythink I ran now in hindsight.
My subconscious was taking meoff my little stage.
I mean, to mirror the name ofyour podcast, cut the tie.
You know, I was running amulti-billion dollar private
equity firm, investing$100million in venture capital.
I was on 20 plus boards, afather of four, et cetera, et
(04:25):
cetera.
I had built this little stage,especially of like business
success.
And that stage was beingdeconstructed for me.
My subconscious was taking meoff the stage in order to go
inside myself instead of lookingexternally to go inside.
And uh that's led to this book,the last book written by a
(04:47):
human, Becoming Wise in the Ageof AI.
It's all about humanity and AI.
I think that is the message forour moment.
I think as we continue toinhabit a world with more and
more intelligent machines, we ashumans must become more wise.
So it broke the stage and thenfocused me on what I think I
(05:09):
really should be working on.
That's great.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
I mean, that's far the path.
Um I believe, by the way, thatas more and more technology and
AI and I think people go back tothings like nature and either
things and live events.
So I'm excited for that.
All right, let's bring you alittle bit.
How do you define success?
SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
I define success as living in uh non-resistance to
what is number one.
Number two, I I define successfor myself in being able to be.
So in that little stage ofsuccess, like I spoke about,
this little mountain of successthat I had climbed, I had become
(05:49):
a human doing, even addicted todoing.
And so I define success uharound being.
We're human beings, not humandoings.
And in and in an age ofintelligent machines that is
going to do more and more ofwhat we're used to doing better
than we can, what are we leftwith, Thomas?
(06:10):
We are left with our being.
So there'll always be things todo as we're embodied here on
earth.
There's always stuff to getdone.
But what kind of being orpresence or awareness are we
bringing to our doing?
The more being I can bring,that's how I define success.
And then also, like I said,living in non-resistance to what
(06:31):
is, which is not easy becausereality is hard, change is the
only constant, and that's how Idefine success in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
It's solid, it's a unique definition.
It's the first one of its kindin hundreds of interviews.
So two points for Mr.
Dang, slammed up.
Points.
So you can spend them anywhere.
And uh it's good.
Uh take me on a journey here.
So tell me a little bit moreabout you.
I think you you talked about alittle, you already set it up
pretty well, but tell mespecifically on that journey
(07:01):
what the metaphoric ties wereyou had to cut to to achieve
that success.
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
Yeah, um, in my book, I talk about climbing this
little mountain of success.
And I think again, as humans, wekind of look outside of
ourselves for validation.
We look outside of ourselves atfor metrics, for a scoreboard,
like you might say, of how we'redoing.
But what we're really lookingfor, Thomas, and I I've been an
(07:30):
adjunct professor ofentrepreneurship at the
university down the street fromme since the governor run for
the last five years.
I've taught thousands ofstudents.
And I often say to them that themost simple ideas are often the
most powerful and therefore themost neglected.
And I think this is one of them,which is what we are all looking
(07:53):
for is inside of us.
It's not external to us, it'snot outside of us.
Yet that is in the air webreathe.
You know, in America, I grew upin a very high-demand religion.
I was the oldest of six kids.
Um, I, you know, I builtbusiness after business after
business, et cetera, et cetera.
Looking for external validationor some scoreboard that doesn't
(08:16):
exist to prove that, you know, Iwas worthy, I was loved,
whatever the case may be, thatcan only come from inside.
So at the top of this littlemountain, I say in my book,
there's nothing but a cold,howling wind.
And what are you left with?
You there's nowhere to go butdown, picking up the pieces of a
(08:38):
little bit of a tattered life,not because of anything I did
wrong, but just because of thepace that I was keeping.
And you're left to go insideyourself and to sit with, like I
said, that being.
So I think the biggest thingthat I've had to cut in my life,
I'm still working on, especiallythe book launches next week.
So I am in the, I've done 50podcasts in the last two weeks.
(09:00):
I mean, I am doing, doing, doingright now.
Um, it's cutting the tie tobeing a human doing or to doing
too much and instead relaxinginto our being.
That's the hardest tie for me tocut.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Yeah, I mean, it's that uh ties back to old
principles of mindfulness andpresence and uh you know, happy
for you, like that.
You could reference stuff in theBible from stuff 5,000 years
prior to that, that the humanstate is always consumed to what
could have been and what shouldbe.
Yeah, not what is now.
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Yeah, and I'm a strong believer in pronounia.
You just kind of said thedefinition, which is things are
not, this is what living innon-resistance, I think, brings.
Things are not happening to me,they're happening for me.
I think that the universe, I'msaying this in quotes, the
universe is conspiring for ourgood, both individually and
collectively as a society.
(09:56):
And as AI shows up on the scenehardcore here in 2025, we're
left with the real question ofhow can this you know powerful
technology be pointed towardhuman flourishing instead of
human division or destruction.
SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Well, I have a view that it's entropy, you know,
introphy.
And so entropy, sorry, entropy,rarity's down to break down the
next and you see the universe,and uh so you sometimes have to
build things to break them down.
Yeah, yeah, I might be one ofthose things that's built to
break down something else.
So, you know, differentdiscussion.
Once again, another podcast.
(10:35):
We're not starting.
Uh okay.
Sorry, I no, I love it.
Just because I would go down theroute.
It's not you, it's me here.
Okay, I'm telling you right now,it eagle.
You gotta stay focused, Thomas.
Stay focused here, bro.
I'm really good at doing that,otherwise I would nerd out with
you and it'd be two hours later,and we would be like, Okay,
question three.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Yeah, let's just make this a two-hour podcast.
Let's change it up.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
I think the next two guests are gonna appreciate
that.
The uh so along the way, right?
You you you identify whateverelse, right?
What you need, and thedefinition changes, but then
there's the how.
So, how did you kind of takethose steps?
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Yeah, I mean you spoke about breaking things down
to build something morebeautiful.
I think that's the process ofgrowth, growth, and that often
happens, like you said, throughdisruption.
So, what did I break down?
I broke down my ego.
I think this story that we'vebeen telling ourselves for so
long about division, you know,liberal, conservative, white,
(11:35):
black, rich, poor.
I'm I'm trying to throw, youknow, Hindu, Christian, you
know, like those divisions arebeautiful in the diversity that
they bring to life, but they'renot the true underlying essence
of our reality, in my opinion.
I think that at the heart of it,there is a much more powerful
divine unity that unites us.
(11:58):
So um I think that understandingthat anytime that we're with a
fellow human being, there isalways, we always share more in
common than we do different, nomatter our differences.
I think that that's a key to oursuccess.
I think that that's somethingthat will be broken down here in
the age of AI.
(12:18):
And did I answer your question?
But that that that's what cameout.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
Yeah, you are because you're saying you broke
down your ego.
So it's yeah, there's aself-reflection piece.
Uh, you know, we all strugglewith that.
Uh, and usually there's parts inyour life and times in your life
that make that happen.
Uh, and it's they're not alwayspositive, but it but that's I
mean, that's a fantastic that'sa real answer because there's
one thing, oh, I made a list orthe like the end of the day, you
got to do something internally,change that.
(12:43):
And and that's that's a course.
Uh maybe maybe the differentkind of question.
Uh, what are you kind of mostgrateful for though today?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
My wife, Sally, you know, my soulmate.
Like you could strip everythingaway, Thomas.
Like, strip everything that wejust spoke about AI and podcasts
and money and you know, whateverelse.
Just strip it away.
And I think existence is aboutlove and it's about a love
story.
(13:13):
We all have our own lovestories, and so that's what I'm
most grateful for, of course,Thomas.
I'm grateful for my, you know,unique love story, my wife, Sal,
my soulmate, and our we havefour beautiful children.
And I'm actually a grandfather.
I have a grandson, aone-year-old grandson.
Things happen quick out here inUtah.
And um, so yeah, that's what I'mthat's what I'm most thankful
(13:37):
for.
No doubt about it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Which one of your kids is your favorite?
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
I don't have a favorite, Thomas.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
You can't we all do rock.
It changes day to day.
There's a list.
Yeah, the ones you can't.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
Okay, that's easy.
My my favorite, um, and myfavorite is my youngest son,
James, because he's still in inour house.
Uh, my only daughter, Claire, isleaving for college in two
weeks.
So she's here now, but she'll begone leaving us in two weeks.
So we'll have three in college,one still at home.
So my favorite is the one stillat home with me.
He's a freshman in high school.
unknown (14:10):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
I tell my kids uh they're I freak.
I like one of you best and oneof you least.
I'm not telling you who.
And and they're like, well, weknow who's who's number one
right now.
We just don't know who's two orthree.
So I love you all, butdifferently because you're
different people.
Yeah, for sure.
What's uh what's kind of thecurrent tie in your life though?
You're struggling to cut.
(14:33):
I think I'll let me rephrasethat, or you're you're
struggling to admit you need tocut it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
No, I know what I need to cut.
I'm I'm self-aware, Thomas.
Like I've got a lot of workstill to do.
I've done a lot of work, but I'maware.
I I need to cut my tie tooutcomes.
Uh explain that a little bit.
The joys in the journey.
Like that we're on a journey, anadventure together.
This existence is an adventure.
(14:59):
It's a heroic journey that we'reall on, again, individually in
our own hero's journey.
But I think humanity's on acollective heroic journey too.
And too often we are tied tooutcomes that we have too much
of a vested interest in.
So, for instance, right now I'mlaunching this book.
I'm on the edge of the New YorkTimes list.
Does it really matter if I makethe New York Times list?
(15:22):
I mean, I it only does to me inas much as it gets the message
out there, which I'm verypassionate about.
Again, I think it's the messagefor our day and moment, but that
doesn't really matter in theend.
And whether I do four podcaststoday or five, it doesn't really
matter.
I'll tell you this.
This is something I learned inthe artistic process, if I could
(15:43):
in writing this book.
It was about the process.
And in some ways, I'm already aquote unquote winner in writing
the book because writing itchanged me.
I am changed because I wrote thebook.
Whether 10,000 people read it or10 million people read it, it
doesn't really matter.
(16:03):
But that's hard to let go of.
So that attachment to outcome, anumber on a scoreboard.
I was a quarterback in highschool and point guard.
So winning every game, whateveryour bank account says, you
know, how many deals did youclose this quarter?
Those are outcomes that we canwork towards, but I think we
should be a little less attachedto, a little less grippy, like
(16:25):
let go of um outcomes.
That's what I need to work onright now.
It's what I am working on as thebook launches August 19th.
So in like five days from whenwe're recording, that's what I'm
uh looking to let go of.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
You know, it's it's it's it's a balance of enjoying
the present and not allowingyourself to get complacent with
the excuse of I'm not worriedabout the outcome.
Yeah.
And so there's like there's abalance because you got to get
some stuff done.
And so, like, you know, I I needthe I need to make that.
I there's basics, but like youdon't have to obsess on it.
You can enjoy if it gets thereor not.
But I can see like if youmisapply that, you might create
(17:01):
the ability, fair enough tocreate an excuse.
You're not doing it, it soundslike yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:04):
No, I well, I think maybe change the motivation.
We all burn on fuel, some kindof fuel.
Some of it's uh I'll call itdirty fuel, you know.
Let's call it coal, but it'slike hate, greed, you know, like
whatever, like showing somethingagain, it's external validation.
That's dirtier fuel that burnsout.
What I would say, Thomas, is thefuel that is inexhaustible is
(17:28):
love.
Love only multiplies.
And so my point is we've got toinfuse all our doing.
And I've got to remember thatI'm releasing this book because
I love people, I love humanity.
I want AI to help us becomebetter together.
And so, yeah, that that's the umthat's the fuel behind
(17:51):
everything that I try to do.
And so, yeah, I think it'sreframing maybe what our
motivations are.
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
What's some of the um best or worst business advice
you've ever received?
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
These are good questions.
Point in.
Do more.
Do more.
Work sorry, sorry, we're worst.
Do more.
We're on the work harder.
Yeah, I think, I think, I thinkwork harder, do more, something
like that.
You know, like you could alwaysbe doing more.
You know, of another funny book.
(18:26):
I told a little bit about mybackground.
I was so busy.
And some for some reason Idecided to add MBA to my resume
amidst all that busyness that Ispoke about.
And so I could only do that onnights and weekends, of course,
because I was so busy.
I was sitting in a leadershipclass, and this started to wake
me up.
I was seeing a leadership class,and our professor said, think of
(18:48):
the most motivating thing to youright now.
Think of what is motivating youmore than anything.
And I sat there fully blank andempty.
My, you know, my colleaguesaround me started writing and
typing on their key on theirlaptops.
I could think of nothing.
Two things finally came, neitherof which I'm proud of.
(19:09):
One was a I grew up in the 80sand 90s, so I'm like kind of a
product of MTV.
So you've maybe heard of yo MTVraps and a badass cribs episode.
It was kind of a vision of that,a big party, very few, you know,
scantily clad people, illicitsubstances.
Now, as a very devout um Mormonand Christian, that is something
(19:34):
I had no idea about.
But somehow that freedom wasalluring to me.
The second vision that I had,which was even more scary and
actually led me to start meetingwith my first ever therapist,
was me quietly closing mylaptop, putting it in my bag,
driving 15 minutes down the roadto the Salt Lake City Airport,
(19:57):
getting on a plane to thefurthest imaginable.
Place and just disappearing,disappearing forever from it
all, from my soulmate Sal, myfour precious children, my
business partners, the companiesthat I love, the financial
empire that I was building.
I was under so much pressure andstress that I that was the only
(20:24):
thing motivating to me.
So I think the fallacy or theworst advice we can sometimes
take is do more.
No, we need to be more.
We are, you know, like we needto lean into our being.
This hustle culture, this I talkin the book about an old game
versus a new game.
This old kind of game of hustle,greed, hate, war, division, that
(20:48):
game is crescendoing inhumanity, in my opinion, or it
needs to, because you can'tlayer on this godlike technology
of AI and have our children andgrandchildren's futures be
better.
It just can't happen.
So we need to transition to anew game, like I've said, that's
much more about being and aboutlove.
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
You are humans are recreated in a pattern.
Yeah.
We will repeat history justbecause we're not that much
different than people 5,000years ago, just a different set
of tools.
And uh, and that's not a badpick, it's just what it is.
I believe we're not even oncrescond, there's no circle.
We're in the roaring 20s rightnow.
(21:29):
And uh and it's so whateverwhatever happened about 20, you
know, 100 years ago is probablygonna happen again.
Uh we'll see if we can stop awar or two.
SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
But uh we need more pattern breakers right now,
Thomas.
Let me just we need patternbreakers.
We need people to push theedges.
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
I think that the the hustle culture is a good thing
because that's how edges getpushed, and then there's a
rebound from it.
It's like a ship that's rocked,it rocks the other way.
At some point it settles, andthen something rocks it again,
some exterior fork.
And so I think it's all it it iswhat it is because that's how
it's supposed to be kind ofidea.
And so anyway, moving on, if youcould go back to any part in
(22:04):
your timeline, anywhere, whenwould you go back?
What would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Yeah, I'm not sure I would go back, number one, but
number two, if you're saying youhave to.
SPEAKER_01 (22:17):
No, don't have to.
Your answer could be I am goodwhere I am.
SPEAKER_00 (22:20):
Yeah, I don't think I would go back.
I mean, but it but let me justsay one thought.
If I could, I would go back20-ish years to a young married
guy with young kids, and I wouldsay, slow down, like breathe.
Everything is gonna be okay,it's all going to work out.
Enjoy it, you know.
(22:41):
I won't I share another storyabout kind of missing the first
year of my only daughter's lifeand how I held her in this pool
and just she looked at me withher crystal green eyes and just
was like, Daddy, like, are youhere?
Are you with me?
Where have you been?
And I had realized I missed thatfirst year of her life, you
(23:02):
know, largely because I was sobusy, I could never get that
back.
So I would tell myself in myearly and mid-20s to just chill
out a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Yeah, you could have just said Bitcoin too, just buy
it like that.
That's true.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
You yeah, I should have now, I all of us should
have not built any businessesthe last decade, not sweated out
and just invested fully intoBitcoin, and we all would have
almost all of us would have donebetter.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Yeah, live in an apartment for like five years
and put everything into it.
Um, you know, the kids' pieces,and anyone listening at this
point, I will tell you listen,this is heads up.
You you're uh you're gonna havethe regret no matter how much
time you think you give to yourkids.
It's either gonna be I didn'tfocus on my business enough, now
I can't provide something.
Don't sweat it.
Uh I would it is crushing thoughwhen like videos come up and
(23:48):
you're like, you see like my sonor something, and like you know,
he was a tough kick through hiscolicky, and then you know,
whatever.
It just was hard to settle.
It was just like I don'tremember those years either.
Sometimes I'm like intentionallychecked out for like four or
five years just because I'mlike, it was so hard to sleep
because you for like four years,didn't kid sleep two hours time.
It was like I'm sad.
I wish I would have known aboutmelatonin back then.
(24:08):
Anyway, um well anyway.
So my point is I I I apologizefor saying that because the
truth is many of us need to justtake it for what it is, except
that you know your first yearthat you you feel like you're
absent gives you the lesson nowto be present more often, and
that might matter now.
So it's all it's all good to go.
Um if there was a question todayI should have asked you though,
(24:29):
and I didn't, what would thatquestion have been and how would
you have answered it?
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
Why why should my listeners uh check out the last
book written by a human?
Um, this is a book for ourmoment in time.
Uh, I wrote it with my fullheart and soul.
You will feel that, even if youdon't know me, you will feel
that on every page.
This book was meant to be, it'smeant to be a conversation
(24:55):
starter that leads to a humanmovement.
The last section of the book isis around evolution.
And I talk about evolving themost important institutions, you
know, like human relationship,education, reforming religious
religion, excuse me, consciouscapitalism, and then a human
(25:16):
political movement that I thinkis direly needed.
So um that that's the purpose ofthe book.
It's meant to get peopletalking.
I think that AI is a cosmicmirror to humanity, it's a
reflection to us.
We get to look in the mirror andthen decide what we change.
Let's make a more beautifulfuture together.
(25:37):
So that's what I'd say.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
I love that.
That's uh I'm excited to readit.
And I promise I won't use justGPT to read it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Yeah, will you please buy a cop and Thomas?
I have no idea how I bled intothis.
And you told me before westarted, I'm just gonna GPT it.
Come on, dude.
Let's go.
Maybe I'll just be buying acopy, share it with your friends
and family.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
I'll read it.
But but I generally do readbooks.
The only ones I don't are theones that are too thick.
SPEAKER_00 (26:07):
You'll like this.
It's not thick, it's like 40,000words.
It's a page turner, very short,about 30 very short, quick
chapters.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
I will I will I will do that.
I like audiobooks, by the way.
And so you want me to record youaudio is my voice on he's a sexy
voice guy.
It will hit, I swear.
Okay.
Oh yeah.
Who should get a hold of you, orwhere should someone go?
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Yeah, anyone that's deconstructing right now, that's
questioning uh why they're here,what is reality, and where do we
go to build a bright future forAI?
So I think anyone that has thosequestions should follow the
journey, should order the book,should check it out.
And then let me know what youthink.
Again, I'm trying to start aconversation here.
(26:50):
The best way to follow that isjust to go to my website,
jeffburningham.com.
That's like burningham.com.
And then I'm a, you know, I havevery mixed feelings about social
media.
I'm not great at it.
I don't love it, but I'm tryingto speak to the people where
they're at.
So pretty much every socialmedia platform, including I
launched a Substack earlier thisweek, I think TikTok two weeks
(27:12):
ago, is just at Jeff Burningham.
SPEAKER_01 (27:17):
I'm with you on the social media.
You put a there is a number thatI will put into a bank account
with 5% interest that willrequire me to delete all social
media.
Yeah, so it's gonna I'll saygoodbye.
And they're like, what?
Like it doesn't matter.
I'm good.
Uh thank you, Jeff.
I I love these kind ofconversations and I truly
appreciate you just I knowyou're busy as hell.
So thank you for coming on theshow today.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Thomas, thanks for taking time.
It's good to be with you.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
I really appreciate it.
And listen, anyone who's stillhere, still here, I'm talking to
you now.
Uh, if this is your first time,I hope it's the first of many.
And if you've been here before,thank you for returning every
time I say this.
Go out there, get out there, cuta tie to whatever's holding you
back from that success, whichyou define for yourself.
Thank you.
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