July 18, 2025 • 22 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Jason Greer
What happens when you wake up and realize you’ve been living someone else’s definition of success? In this revealing episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich talks with Jason Greer, co-owner of Peel Business Design, about the moment he realized he was living under fear, guilt, and shame—and how he took ownership of his story.
From a small Midwest town to leading a company that helps businesses align strategy, metrics, and process, Jason’s story is one of deep introspection, curiosity, and intentional change. He shares how cutting emotional and cultural ties helped him build a business and a life that feels like his own—and why being curious, vulnerable, and humble remains his compass.
About Jason Greer
Jason Greer is the co-founder of Peel Business Design, a firm that believes “business deserves design.” With a focus on strategy alignment, process optimization, and people-centered solutions, Jason helps companies break big problems into solvable pieces. His journey from fear-based living to purpose-driven leadership is one of empathy, grit, and transformation.
In this episode, Thomas and Jason discuss:
- Breaking Free from Cultural Expectations
Jason shares how growing up in a small Midwest town instilled guilt, shame, and fear—and how he recognized those patterns still shaped his decisions as an adult. - The Wake-Up Call in a Parking Lot
A chance reading of a book in his car sparked a life-altering realization: if he didn’t make changes, he’d live a life designed by other people’s expectations. - Redesigning Life Through Emotional Awareness
By intentionally putting himself in uncomfortable situations, Jason learned to identify emotional patterns, reconnect with himself, and build healthier relationships—personally and professionally. - Leading with Curiosity, Humility, and Empathy
Jason explains why these three values drive how he works with clients, tackles complex problems, and navigates new industries—without needing to be the smartest guy in the room.
Key Takeaways:
- You Don’t Have to Inherit Someone Else’s Life
Recognizing emotional baggage is the first step to designing a life that’s truly yours. - Curiosity is a Competitive Advantage
Staying curious keeps you growing, evolving, and connected to the work you love. - Your Support System is Your Superpower
Success isn’t a solo act—mentors, family, and friends are critical to the journey. - Clients Feel Your Energy
When you stop selling and start listening, the right clients show up—and the wrong ones walk away. - Business Deserves Design
You can’t solve big problems with default solutions. Break them down. Build intentionally.
Connect with Jason Greer
💼 LinkedIn: Jason Greer
🌐 Website: www.peelbusinessdesign.com
Connect with Thomas Helfrich
🐦 Twitter: @thelfrich
📘 Facebook: Cut the Tie Group
💼 LinkedIn: Thomas Helfrich
🌐 Website: www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 InstantlyRelevant.com
Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Cut the Tie.
I'm your host, Thomas Helfrich.
I'm on the mission to cut thetie to whatever's holding you
back.
I want to help you do this soyou can find success in a way
that you've defined that successfor yourself.
And today I'm joined by JasonGreer.
Jason, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Appreciate the time.
I'm very grateful the time ourguests give us to come on here.
I know they're busy.
Most times are successful no,they're often successful and run
stuff.
So I really appreciate youjumping in here.
Why don't you start with whoyou are and what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, my name is Jason Greer.
I co-own a company called PeelBusiness Design and we believe
that companies and businessdeserves design, and so we work
with them to align theirstrategy to their metrics, to
their process and make surethey're doing a great work.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Competitive space, for sure.
Uh, what makes you guysdifferent?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Um, you know, in a lot of ways.
Uh, a lot of companies willcome in with a big slide deck
and say this is how we do it.
Um, they are the hammer andthey look for the nails to pound
into the ground.
Uh, we don't come at it thatway.
We say this is how we do it.
They are the hammer and theylook for the nails to pound into
the ground.
We don't come at it that way.
We say this is a big problem.
We recognize every big problemdeserves attention and our job
is to take that big problem andto break it into small problems
(01:18):
and bring the right facilitiesand the right people to solve
those.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I like that.
Listen, I usually do theshameless plug at the end.
As you're listening to Jasonhere and you want to stalk him
while he's talking, just go topeelbusinessdesigncom P-E-E-L
businessdesigncom and hitLinkedIn, all the things for him
that way.
If you want to stalk him,here's what he is, why he's
talking.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So we're going to go pre-stalk mode for any of the
guests.
Jason, let's start with onespecific thing, which is how you
define success.
You know, for success for meand it's changed over the years,
and I would say even in thelast two years for me, success
is running a business where Icome home at the end of every
night and say that was awesome,right, Like I got to be my true
self, Um, and I find I'm moresuccessful, uh, in a tangible
(02:12):
way that way as well, Um, butmore than anything, it's just
how do you live your life andenjoy every day?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, I mean, and that's does change over time.
You know, like a lot of timesfor people, sometimes it starts
off as money, money, money.
Other time it's, you know youget later in life, it's
enjoyment with family, or it'smentoring, or it's it's, it's
leave behind legacy, and I lovethat you're, you know you're
adopting it and it's changed andit's probably going to change
again.
So good for you In your ownjourney.
Though talk about your journeya little bit, and what.
(02:41):
What was the biggest tie you'vehad to cut or or maybe you're
currently doing it to accomplishthat success you just defined.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, you know, I grew up in a, like a small town,
midwest world, um, and ifthere's anything in those
cultures, it is that, um, youlearn your place and you learn
where you're supposed to be andyou're told where to be, um, and
so there's a lot of guilt, fearand shame that kind of comes
with that whole culture, and Irecognized just a few years ago
(03:12):
that how much fear and guilt andshame I was living under and
started to look at everysituation I was in to see if I
could do it better, and gettingback to that point of loving my
life every day.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
That's a big realization to come to, of
knowing that I needed to stopfeeling something that I felt in
childhood.
It plagues all of us.
As a Midwest kid, mine'sdifferent, but I know what
you're talking about.
I grew up in the middle ofnowhere, illinois, and then, in
your journey though, you had amoment, I'm sure, where you
realized it.
Do you remember that moment?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Oh, definitely, uh, I uh was uh sitting in my car
reading a book, uh, about a ladywhose life didn't turn out the
way she wanted it to, and it wasthis epiphany of like, if I
continue on this path, um, I'mgoing to allow everybody's
expectations of me to find whatmy life is, and so that was kind
(04:09):
of my defining moment questionfirst is because someone else
had been defining that for youfor a very long time and and and
.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
honestly, it's okay that people are influencing you
to kind of go the rightdirection, to say, hey, you know
, success looks more like thisthan robbing a bank or like
whatever it is right, or drugsand this stuff.
So it's, it's done out of love.
But at some point, if you don'ttake over that dream and that
success story, you becomeresentful of it.
And you did that.
(04:48):
That's my journey.
I mean, I'm self-projecting it,but I see this a lot.
Would you feel that's correctin describing like I need it.
It's mine.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, I totally agree .
I mean, I have so many mentorsin life and I try to find them
everywhere I go, so it's notthat I'm trying to do this on my
own.
But what you have to recognizeis that those mentors also have
(05:16):
baggage, and you have torecognize the baggage versus the
wisdom and what they'rebringing to the table.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, you know what the tie is.
You've defined success.
You know what the tie is.
You're going to cut and you gotthe moment it happens.
And then comes the how?
Yeah, so how did you startcutting that tie?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
You know, I was very intentional, if I'm completely
honest.
I was recognizing that I wasn'treally in control of my
emotions, I didn't understandmyself, and so I really forced
myself to get into situationsand be like, okay, what do I
feel here?
Right, like, do I feel fear inthis situation?
(05:55):
Do I feel, you know, and gothrough those things?
And it was a moment that forcedme, many moments that forced me
to better understand who I wasand better understand the
situations I wanted to be in andthe people that I wanted to be
in front of.
Um, and so I mean if, if webring it back to the business
world, we've all been in thosesituations where you meet that
(06:17):
salesperson that you can justfeel the um, the need to solve a
problem, like you can feeltheir paycheck banging on the
door as they talk to you, right,um, and when you start to
recognize that success is maybesomething other than money, um,
it changes the way you talk topeople and, honestly, the money
(06:39):
success just happens a littleeasier.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, it, it.
It follows the principles ofhow people buy too.
Uh, so, from the from, thepeople buy because they trust
you and you.
They see that you can do it.
They've seen a little bit ofgold.
No, there's probably a bunchunderneath it, and when you're
doing the snake oil dance oftrying to sell somebody
something, they're all over thattoo.
So I 100% agree with you On thepersonal level to do this, to
(07:06):
get yourself more emotionallyconnected to the moment of fear
and why that fear exists.
Did you have a support system?
Did you have like a?
You're doing it all alone.
How did you tackle that one?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, as my wife says , it takes a team to keep me
running.
So, of course, yes, you knoweverything, from great mentors
to great family to you know, thelist goes on.
Certainly, I reach out and relyon a lot of people to help me,
uh, learn about myself and theworld.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, well, listen, I mean that's why I have a
Facebook group and a men's groupgoing, cause I'm, I, I can't
get it from everything around me.
And there's, there's, there'smore.
You just you got to reach forand put a hand out for help, and
sometimes you don't even knowyou're drowning.
So I get it totally, and that'ssometimes you realize, like I
give this analogy sometimesyou're floating on the ocean
going oh yeah, it's so good notto be drowning right now, and
(08:01):
there's a whole bunch of peopleon a big boat going.
If you just come over here,we'll pull you up.
Can you make the effort to swimover here and you'll not have
to worry about drowning again?
And and and it's sometimes youdon't even realize that.
No, I don't want to do that.
Like, I'm good here, so I'm notdry anyway.
So, yes, sometimes there's awhole whole group of people that
can help you if you ask for it,since, uh, you know, kind of
(08:22):
working through this sounds likeyou continually do this as well
.
Uh, what's been the impact?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Um, you know our our business has grown a lot over
the last few years.
I enjoy my work far more than Iever did.
I am able to now recognize whatprojects are really good for me
and which ones are not.
We have designed our businessin a way that we almost always
do assessments with new clients.
I want to recognize whether ornot I can create a great
partnership with them, um, or ifit's somebody I want to be
around, um, and we quickly learnthat so we can walk away if we
(09:02):
want to, um.
So, yeah, a lot ofintentionality goes into how we
design, who we work with andwhat we work on.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
What are you most grateful for in your life?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
work on.
What are you most grateful forin your life?
Oh, man, uh, you know, ofcourse I can always give the
family answer, and of coursethat's what we work towards.
Um, I, I'm thankful that I havethe opportunity to be uh
curious every day.
Um, it's, it's really somethingI just enjoy, and so, uh, that
curiosity in a lot of ways keepsme going.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
You're the.
We shoot a lot of these in oneday.
You're the second guest in arow here to say curiosity is
what keeps them moving, thegratefulness that they have.
And so if you've listened tolast year, you're gonna hear me
repeat this, but the idea andthis is at church one week is,
if you're on, if you're coasting, you're on the decline and
you're just, you stop beingcurious and, honestly, there's
(09:58):
not times you want to do that,but if you stop being curious,
you stop growing, you stoplearning, uh, and all of a
sudden you'll find yourselfwithout and like, just kind of
hollow, like I stopped learning,I stopped, and you blink and 10
years ago, by right, like so I,I love that and curiosity makes
life.
It's what I think distinguisheskids, cuz everything's new and
curious and they make games uparound it.
Right, and what we wouldn'tgive to be able to play with a
(10:20):
little Lego and be in thatmoment, like the create that
little star Wars thing, and alsoI am in star Right, right,
remember those moments.
Oh, please come back.
Anyway, I will breathe throughthis.
Uh, give some advice.
Anyway, I will breathe throughthis.
Give some advice.
Someone who was you before youwere in the car listening to
(10:43):
that book and you realized themoment.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Give that person some advice today.
Yeah, I think, finding who youwant to be and what you want
your life to look like.
I spend a lot of time and I uselanguage.
Probably you can't put onpodcasts.
Oh yeah, I have fun with it.
That's great, all right.
So I follow what I consider thefuck yeah principle.
(11:07):
I want to get to the end of mylife and say, fuck yeah, that
was awesome, right, uh, noregrets.
Um, now, don't get me wrong.
I'm going to make a millionmistakes along the way, uh, but
I want to do it withintentionality, uh, recognizing
that I designed the life formyself that I wanted.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, the Dave Matthews song right, like why
would we line our grayswondering what could have been
right?
And so, uh, I'm sure I knowthat that's exactly the lyric,
but I'm under pressure toremember it and I got a great
memory.
But it's short, great advice.
Um, you know, live the F, f, vllife.
Right, I can't say it becausewe can only do it two times
without YouTube accepting it formonetization.
(11:46):
So I'm gonna stop.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Okay, all right, you need to cut.
That's cool, we can do that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Took all of them.
I'm just kidding.
Um quick fire.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Um, I get inspiration from a lot of people.
I would say the people I getmost inspiration from are the
people you wouldn't expect.
Um, the people that you meetthat have been doing a job for
20 years and people just kind ofignore them at this point.
Um, they are the ones that haveso much wisdom that nobody's
heard them, and so I get a lotof inspiration on my daily jobs
(12:19):
just working with differentpeople, hearing their passion
for what they do.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah.
Sometimes just no one thoughtto ask yeah, and you make
someone's day by asking, likewhat's your take on this?
You've been here 15 years.
Sometimes you find out theyreally don't want to care.
They just kind of want tocollect a job and go home.
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
But not always.
Here's my take on that.
I don't believe there's verymany people that walk into a new
job or a new role and say Iwant to do the worst job
possible.
I think most people walk intojobs, people that are in that
position where it looks likethey don't care, but something
led them there.
The processes that they dealtwith, the politics within the
(13:02):
role, their manager right All ofthose things weigh on them to a
point where they lose interest.
I don't think people start thatway.
I think people end that way.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I don't think people start that way.
I think people end that way.
Yeah, I uh, probably reflectingon my own, I'm going to extend
that a bit because I think it'sa really good point and I think
it's something to take away.
It's kind of a hard lesson Ithink people should hear is you
are often, though sometimes theproblem, because if you're
blaming others for everythingthat's not happening or
happening, you're not lookinginto the introspective self of
what you do or don't do, or whatyou're not working towards, or
(13:35):
your false sense of entitlement.
That will create a resentmentthat puts you sometimes into
that spot that everything'shappening to you, not for you.
Your own mindset will determinesome of that, and then, at some
point, I think, you just acceptit as that's the reality I live
in, but you don't realize thatyou create some of that reality.
So I think someself-accountability is a harsh
(13:56):
lesson and a title a lot ofpeople need to realize.
They need to get through.
And it is brutal because thepeople around you know it and
the ones who've stayed with youyou should be thankful for.
I'm going to take someaccountability.
Then let's deal with theasshole in the room, right?
Oh, did I cross the line onthree.
That's right, I'm a.
Take some accountability.
Then let's deal with theasshole in the room, right,
right, oh, did I cross the lineon three?
(14:16):
I did, wow, that's right, itwas an F1.
We're good.
What?
What's the best business adviceyou've ever received?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think grind it out.
Um, there's so much in a in,you know, you put yourself in
front of the hard problems tosolve.
Um, and I meet so many peoplelike uh, you know I'll get like
an intern on my team orsomething and they'll they'll
give it a three tries and fourhours worth of effort to try to
figure something out and they'relike impossible, like
(14:48):
impossible.
Um, and every great skill thatI've learned is because I grew
just grind on the problem stepby step and you fail a thousand
times along the way.
Um, to me, that was really whatcreated uh, who I became in my
career.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, well, that's part of that curiosity trait
that you're like I think there'sprobably a way to do it.
Um, I've, you know, in design.
I'll give you a real worldexample.
I, we hired these professionals, or we brought professionals in
to give us a quote to move awall into the garage.
We can open up a kitchen liketwo feet.
So it wasn't like so weird.
We're moving a, removing a doorand so on, and it's oh, it's
(15:26):
not possible, you can't do it.
Here's why and I said, couldn'tyou just put a new wall and,
sister, new risers and just goone at a time and leave the
other ones there and they'relike well, yeah, you could do
that.
I'm like then it is possible,correct?
yeah like yeah, no, no, youwould have to do.
I'm like, are you sure?
Because it's a 12 foot max on atwo by 10 and it's only 11 feet
(15:49):
.
You know three, you know 0.75.
You can even cantilever alittle bit.
What's that?
Like well, no, cause the othergarage is going that way.
I'm like, could you just notput a hanger on it?
Isn't that allowed?
Like there's only like static.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
It gets back to that.
It gets back to that hammer andnail concept, right when you've
done it this way a hundredtimes and you're willing to
break out of the mold.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
To me.
I was dumbfounded by three,four structural engineer experts
that came in and said you don'thave to put a header here or a
cross.
I was like I don't think you do, I just did it.
The inspectors were like Idon't think you do.
And so we?
I just did it and and like theinspectors were like that's fine
, because it's it meets code,deflections down, static inertia
, did stood the math.
This is pre GPT too.
(16:38):
Anyway, point being is in thatin that example, uh, just cause
someone's an expert, theysometimes stop learning and
curiosity to really thinkthrough the problem versus uh
and this is where I think goesback to I was tying it back to
something else you're sayingabout mentors baggage.
They were there to find theeasiest role possible, job
possible, to make money, versussolve my problem, and then tell
(17:01):
me what it was going to cost.
That was not an easy problemfrom the song.
And I was like, well, that'swhy you're here, because you're
a professional right To be fair.
I was validating my ownassumptions that would work, but
anyway, but they, they declinedit and my wife and I gather
wrong.
Let's do this.
Yeah, thank you, I'm done withthat kind of thing.
All right.
Uh, is there a book yourecommend to be a must read?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You know, um, I was thinking about that a little
ahead of the show.
If there was one book thatprobably ignited my interest in
entrepreneurialism and thebook's been out 20, 25 years now
E-Myth, Revisited by MichaelGerber, was really one of the
first ones that kind of lit meup to the idea.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, work on it, not in it.
That was what I took away fromthat.
Actually, first audio book Iused to listen to it driving
back and forth to a job and itwas long.
I remember thinking, man, thisis a long book, but it was great
and I probably should revisitit because it was way ahead of
when I needed it.
I still haven't accomplishedthat, by the way.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I'm still working in my business, yeah yeah, exactly,
and there's so much to learnand he leaves it fairly vague,
so it gives you the chance toreally kind of chase it on your
own.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, if you had to start over today, what part of
your life would you go back toand what would you do
differently?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
You know, I think it goes back to that fear concept,
right, Like, if I could haverecognized earlier um to chase
my own dreams, um, I would havedone that.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I like that.
That's so good.
Uh, if, uh, if if there was aquestion I should ask you today
and I didn't, what would thatquestion have been and how would
you have answered that?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's a great question, you know.
For me, I think, how do youjust find satisfaction in what
you do?
And for me that satisfactionjust comes from I really thrive
off of three things.
We've talked about the firstone curiosity.
Thrive off of three things.
(19:09):
We've talked about the firstone curiosity.
I love the idea of empathy andalong with that comes kind of a
vulnerability side to it.
And then the third one isaround humility.
And I think, if you can walkinto, I work in a lot of
different industries.
I work in a lot of differentcompanies and people say, well,
do you know anything abouthealthcare?
Do you know anything aboutinsurance?
(19:30):
No, I don't, but I do knowprocess and I understand data
and I understand strategy and wecan build building blocks and
all those things.
But to do that you have toemploy those three ideas of
curiosity, empathy and humilityand recognize you're never going
to be the smartest person inthe room.
(19:52):
You don't have to knoweverything.
You have to ask good questions,ask for their story and
everything.
I think everything is solvableat that point.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I find the healthcare is a great example, by the way,
I think it's a fantasticexample of in business,
especially that industry.
Financial services is anotherone where they're like well, do
what you know about banking orfinancial or healthcare.
And my answer and I was like aprofessional consultant for 20
some years and I said I don'thave to you do my job is to get
information out of you to solveyour problem, because if you
(20:24):
stay within your own box, you'llonly keep creating your own
things.
I come out with an associationidea of perspective, leveraging
your input and most of the timethat got people over it.
Healthcare they're almost likenope, you got to be from
healthcare to solve this problem.
Like, do I?
Because you can't solve it andyou're in healthcare and it was
always maddening to me of thatmindset and arrogance that you
(20:46):
have to be from it.
It's the only way we'll hire.
Well, you're going to keeprepeating the same problems if
you've never had any outsideperspective.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The mantra I use is the genius was in the room and I
walked in, and it's in everysituation.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Absolutely People out there listening.
If you're one of those peoplewho know how to get information
from people and apply it, thisis the mantra that you should
use.
Is I don't have to know in myindustry fully, you do.
I know how to take yourinformation to do something with
it to solve your problem.
That's what I'm good at in anyindustry, so I love that.
Uh, thank you, by the way, somuch, jason, for just taking the
moments with me today.
You've been fantastic and Iwant you to do that.
(21:29):
I'll be shameless.
Plug for real.
Who should get ahold of you?
How do they do it?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, if you want to find me, you can find me on
LinkedIn, and you can also findme in Peel Business Design
Peelbusinessdesigncom.
Right there on the screen.
I would love to talk to you ifthere's any way we can help.
We believe that businessdeserves design, and so that's
what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Thank you, by the way .
Once again, I really amgrateful for the time you've
given.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Everyone listen at this point.
This is your first time.
I hope it's the first of manyTune in.
We do these kind ofconversations to help you get
perspective on how to cut ties,what people did, how they felt,
and so go out there today justfigure out what the tie is you
need to cut and start cuttingthat tie and achieve the success
that you've defined foryourself.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Cut the Tie.
I'm your host, Thomas Helfrich.
I'm on the mission to cut thetie to whatever's holding you
back.
I want to help you do this soyou can find success in a way
that you've defined that successfor yourself.
And today I'm joined by JasonGreer.
Jason, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Appreciate the time.
I'm very grateful the time ourguests give us to come on here.
I know they're busy.
Most times are successful no,they're often successful and run
stuff.
So I really appreciate youjumping in here.
Why don't you start with whoyou are and what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, my name is Jason Greer.
I co-own a company called PeelBusiness Design and we believe
that companies and businessdeserves design, and so we work
with them to align theirstrategy to their metrics, to
their process and make surethey're doing a great work.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Competitive space, for sure.
Uh, what makes you guysdifferent?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Um, you know, in a lot of ways.
Uh, a lot of companies willcome in with a big slide deck
and say this is how we do it.
Um, they are the hammer andthey look for the nails to pound
into the ground.
Uh, we don't come at it thatway.
We say this is how we do it.
They are the hammer and theylook for the nails to pound into
the ground.
We don't come at it that way.
We say this is a big problem.
We recognize every big problemdeserves attention and our job
is to take that big problem andto break it into small problems
(01:18):
and bring the right facilitiesand the right people to solve
those.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I like that.
Listen, I usually do theshameless plug at the end.
As you're listening to Jasonhere and you want to stalk him
while he's talking, just go topeelbusinessdesigncom P-E-E-L
businessdesigncom and hitLinkedIn, all the things for him
that way.
If you want to stalk him,here's what he is, why he's
talking.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
So we're going to go pre-stalk mode for any of the
guests.
Jason, let's start with onespecific thing, which is how you
define success.
You know, for success for meand it's changed over the years,
and I would say even in thelast two years for me, success
is running a business where Icome home at the end of every
night and say that was awesome,right, Like I got to be my true
self, Um, and I find I'm moresuccessful, uh, in a tangible
(02:12):
way that way as well, Um, butmore than anything, it's just
how do you live your life andenjoy every day?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, I mean, and that's does change over time.
You know, like a lot of timesfor people, sometimes it starts
off as money, money, money.
Other time it's, you know youget later in life, it's
enjoyment with family, or it'smentoring, or it's it's, it's
leave behind legacy, and I lovethat you're, you know you're
adopting it and it's changed andit's probably going to change
again.
So good for you In your ownjourney.
Though talk about your journeya little bit, and what.
(02:41):
What was the biggest tie you'vehad to cut or or maybe you're
currently doing it to accomplishthat success you just defined.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, you know, I grew up in a, like a small town,
midwest world, um, and ifthere's anything in those
cultures, it is that, um, youlearn your place and you learn
where you're supposed to be andyou're told where to be, um, and
so there's a lot of guilt, fearand shame that kind of comes
with that whole culture, and Irecognized just a few years ago
(03:12):
that how much fear and guilt andshame I was living under and
started to look at everysituation I was in to see if I
could do it better, and gettingback to that point of loving my
life every day.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
That's a big realization to come to, of
knowing that I needed to stopfeeling something that I felt in
childhood.
It plagues all of us.
As a Midwest kid, mine'sdifferent, but I know what
you're talking about.
I grew up in the middle ofnowhere, illinois, and then, in
your journey though, you had amoment, I'm sure, where you
realized it.
Do you remember that moment?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Oh, definitely, uh, I uh was uh sitting in my car
reading a book, uh, about a ladywhose life didn't turn out the
way she wanted it to, and it wasthis epiphany of like, if I
continue on this path, um, I'mgoing to allow everybody's
expectations of me to find whatmy life is, and so that was kind
(04:09):
of my defining moment questionfirst is because someone else
had been defining that for youfor a very long time and and and
.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
honestly, it's okay that people are influencing you
to kind of go the rightdirection, to say, hey, you know
, success looks more like thisthan robbing a bank or like
whatever it is right, or drugsand this stuff.
So it's, it's done out of love.
But at some point, if you don'ttake over that dream and that
success story, you becomeresentful of it.
And you did that.
(04:48):
That's my journey.
I mean, I'm self-projecting it,but I see this a lot.
Would you feel that's correctin describing like I need it.
It's mine.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, I totally agree .
I mean, I have so many mentorsin life and I try to find them
everywhere I go, so it's notthat I'm trying to do this on my
own.
But what you have to recognizeis that those mentors also have
(05:16):
baggage, and you have torecognize the baggage versus the
wisdom and what they'rebringing to the table.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, you know what the tie is.
You've defined success.
You know what the tie is.
You're going to cut and you gotthe moment it happens.
And then comes the how?
Yeah, so how did you startcutting that tie?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
You know, I was very intentional, if I'm completely
honest.
I was recognizing that I wasn'treally in control of my
emotions, I didn't understandmyself, and so I really forced
myself to get into situationsand be like, okay, what do I
feel here?
Right, like, do I feel fear inthis situation?
(05:55):
Do I feel, you know, and gothrough those things?
And it was a moment that forcedme, many moments that forced me
to better understand who I wasand better understand the
situations I wanted to be in andthe people that I wanted to be
in front of.
Um, and so I mean if, if webring it back to the business
world, we've all been in thosesituations where you meet that
(06:17):
salesperson that you can justfeel the um, the need to solve a
problem, like you can feeltheir paycheck banging on the
door as they talk to you, right,um, and when you start to
recognize that success is maybesomething other than money, um,
it changes the way you talk topeople and, honestly, the money
(06:39):
success just happens a littleeasier.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, it, it.
It follows the principles ofhow people buy too.
Uh, so, from the from, thepeople buy because they trust
you and you.
They see that you can do it.
They've seen a little bit ofgold.
No, there's probably a bunchunderneath it, and when you're
doing the snake oil dance oftrying to sell somebody
something, they're all over thattoo.
So I 100% agree with you On thepersonal level to do this, to
(07:06):
get yourself more emotionallyconnected to the moment of fear
and why that fear exists.
Did you have a support system?
Did you have like a?
You're doing it all alone.
How did you tackle that one?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, as my wife says , it takes a team to keep me
running.
So, of course, yes, you knoweverything, from great mentors
to great family to you know, thelist goes on.
Certainly, I reach out and relyon a lot of people to help me,
uh, learn about myself and theworld.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, well, listen, I mean that's why I have a
Facebook group and a men's groupgoing, cause I'm, I, I can't
get it from everything around me.
And there's, there's, there'smore.
You just you got to reach forand put a hand out for help, and
sometimes you don't even knowyou're drowning.
So I get it totally, and that'ssometimes you realize, like I
give this analogy sometimesyou're floating on the ocean
going oh yeah, it's so good notto be drowning right now, and
(08:01):
there's a whole bunch of peopleon a big boat going.
If you just come over here,we'll pull you up.
Can you make the effort to swimover here and you'll not have
to worry about drowning again?
And and and it's sometimes youdon't even realize that.
No, I don't want to do that.
Like, I'm good here, so I'm notdry anyway.
So, yes, sometimes there's awhole whole group of people that
can help you if you ask for it,since, uh, you know, kind of
(08:22):
working through this sounds likeyou continually do this as well
.
Uh, what's been the impact?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Um, you know our our business has grown a lot over
the last few years.
I enjoy my work far more than Iever did.
I am able to now recognize whatprojects are really good for me
and which ones are not.
We have designed our businessin a way that we almost always
do assessments with new clients.
I want to recognize whether ornot I can create a great
partnership with them, um, or ifit's somebody I want to be
around, um, and we quickly learnthat so we can walk away if we
(09:02):
want to, um.
So, yeah, a lot ofintentionality goes into how we
design, who we work with andwhat we work on.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
What are you most grateful for in your life?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
work on.
What are you most grateful forin your life?
Oh, man, uh, you know, ofcourse I can always give the
family answer, and of coursethat's what we work towards.
Um, I, I'm thankful that I havethe opportunity to be uh
curious every day.
Um, it's, it's really somethingI just enjoy, and so, uh, that
curiosity in a lot of ways keepsme going.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
You're the.
We shoot a lot of these in oneday.
You're the second guest in arow here to say curiosity is
what keeps them moving, thegratefulness that they have.
And so if you've listened tolast year, you're gonna hear me
repeat this, but the idea andthis is at church one week is,
if you're on, if you're coasting, you're on the decline and
you're just, you stop beingcurious and, honestly, there's
(09:58):
not times you want to do that,but if you stop being curious,
you stop growing, you stoplearning, uh, and all of a
sudden you'll find yourselfwithout and like, just kind of
hollow, like I stopped learning,I stopped, and you blink and 10
years ago, by right, like so I,I love that and curiosity makes
life.
It's what I think distinguisheskids, cuz everything's new and
curious and they make games uparound it.
Right, and what we wouldn'tgive to be able to play with a
(10:20):
little Lego and be in thatmoment, like the create that
little star Wars thing, and alsoI am in star Right, right,
remember those moments.
Oh, please come back.
Anyway, I will breathe throughthis.
Uh, give some advice.
Anyway, I will breathe throughthis.
Give some advice.
Someone who was you before youwere in the car listening to
(10:43):
that book and you realized themoment.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Give that person some advice today.
Yeah, I think, finding who youwant to be and what you want
your life to look like.
I spend a lot of time and I uselanguage.
Probably you can't put onpodcasts.
Oh yeah, I have fun with it.
That's great, all right.
So I follow what I consider thefuck yeah principle.
(11:07):
I want to get to the end of mylife and say, fuck yeah, that
was awesome, right, uh, noregrets.
Um, now, don't get me wrong.
I'm going to make a millionmistakes along the way, uh, but
I want to do it withintentionality, uh, recognizing
that I designed the life formyself that I wanted.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, the Dave Matthews song right, like why
would we line our grayswondering what could have been
right?
And so, uh, I'm sure I knowthat that's exactly the lyric,
but I'm under pressure toremember it and I got a great
memory.
But it's short, great advice.
Um, you know, live the F, f, vllife.
Right, I can't say it becausewe can only do it two times
without YouTube accepting it formonetization.
(11:46):
So I'm gonna stop.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Okay, all right, you need to cut.
That's cool, we can do that.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Took all of them.
I'm just kidding.
Um quick fire.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Um, I get inspiration from a lot of people.
I would say the people I getmost inspiration from are the
people you wouldn't expect.
Um, the people that you meetthat have been doing a job for
20 years and people just kind ofignore them at this point.
Um, they are the ones that haveso much wisdom that nobody's
heard them, and so I get a lotof inspiration on my daily jobs
(12:19):
just working with differentpeople, hearing their passion
for what they do.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah.
Sometimes just no one thoughtto ask yeah, and you make
someone's day by asking, likewhat's your take on this?
You've been here 15 years.
Sometimes you find out theyreally don't want to care.
They just kind of want tocollect a job and go home.
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
But not always.
Here's my take on that.
I don't believe there's verymany people that walk into a new
job or a new role and say Iwant to do the worst job
possible.
I think most people walk intojobs, people that are in that
position where it looks likethey don't care, but something
led them there.
The processes that they dealtwith, the politics within the
(13:02):
role, their manager right All ofthose things weigh on them to a
point where they lose interest.
I don't think people start thatway.
I think people end that way.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I don't think people start that way.
I think people end that way.
Yeah, I uh, probably reflectingon my own, I'm going to extend
that a bit because I think it'sa really good point and I think
it's something to take away.
It's kind of a hard lesson Ithink people should hear is you
are often, though sometimes theproblem, because if you're
blaming others for everythingthat's not happening or
happening, you're not lookinginto the introspective self of
what you do or don't do, or whatyou're not working towards, or
(13:35):
your false sense of entitlement.
That will create a resentmentthat puts you sometimes into
that spot that everything'shappening to you, not for you.
Your own mindset will determinesome of that, and then, at some
point, I think, you just acceptit as that's the reality I live
in, but you don't realize thatyou create some of that reality.
So I think someself-accountability is a harsh
(13:56):
lesson and a title a lot ofpeople need to realize.
They need to get through.
And it is brutal because thepeople around you know it and
the ones who've stayed with youyou should be thankful for.
I'm going to take someaccountability.
Then let's deal with theasshole in the room, right?
Oh, did I cross the line onthree.
That's right, I'm a.
Take some accountability.
Then let's deal with theasshole in the room, right,
right, oh, did I cross the lineon three?
(14:16):
I did, wow, that's right, itwas an F1.
We're good.
What?
What's the best business adviceyou've ever received?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think grind it out.
Um, there's so much in a in,you know, you put yourself in
front of the hard problems tosolve.
Um, and I meet so many peoplelike uh, you know I'll get like
an intern on my team orsomething and they'll they'll
give it a three tries and fourhours worth of effort to try to
figure something out and they'relike impossible, like
(14:48):
impossible.
Um, and every great skill thatI've learned is because I grew
just grind on the problem stepby step and you fail a thousand
times along the way.
Um, to me, that was really whatcreated uh, who I became in my
career.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, well, that's part of that curiosity trait
that you're like I think there'sprobably a way to do it.
Um, I've, you know, in design.
I'll give you a real worldexample.
I, we hired these professionals, or we brought professionals in
to give us a quote to move awall into the garage.
We can open up a kitchen liketwo feet.
So it wasn't like so weird.
We're moving a, removing a doorand so on, and it's oh, it's
(15:26):
not possible, you can't do it.
Here's why and I said, couldn'tyou just put a new wall and,
sister, new risers and just goone at a time and leave the
other ones there and they'relike well, yeah, you could do
that.
I'm like then it is possible,correct?
yeah like yeah, no, no, youwould have to do.
I'm like, are you sure?
Because it's a 12 foot max on atwo by 10 and it's only 11 feet
(15:49):
.
You know three, you know 0.75.
You can even cantilever alittle bit.
What's that?
Like well, no, cause the othergarage is going that way.
I'm like, could you just notput a hanger on it?
Isn't that allowed?
Like there's only like static.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
It gets back to that.
It gets back to that hammer andnail concept, right when you've
done it this way a hundredtimes and you're willing to
break out of the mold.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
To me.
I was dumbfounded by three,four structural engineer experts
that came in and said you don'thave to put a header here or a
cross.
I was like I don't think you do, I just did it.
The inspectors were like Idon't think you do.
And so we?
I just did it and and like theinspectors were like that's fine
, because it's it meets code,deflections down, static inertia
, did stood the math.
This is pre GPT too.
(16:38):
Anyway, point being is in thatin that example, uh, just cause
someone's an expert, theysometimes stop learning and
curiosity to really thinkthrough the problem versus uh
and this is where I think goesback to I was tying it back to
something else you're sayingabout mentors baggage.
They were there to find theeasiest role possible, job
possible, to make money, versussolve my problem, and then tell
(17:01):
me what it was going to cost.
That was not an easy problemfrom the song.
And I was like, well, that'swhy you're here, because you're
a professional right To be fair.
I was validating my ownassumptions that would work, but
anyway, but they, they declinedit and my wife and I gather
wrong.
Let's do this.
Yeah, thank you, I'm done withthat kind of thing.
All right.
Uh, is there a book yourecommend to be a must read?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You know, um, I was thinking about that a little
ahead of the show.
If there was one book thatprobably ignited my interest in
entrepreneurialism and thebook's been out 20, 25 years now
E-Myth, Revisited by MichaelGerber, was really one of the
first ones that kind of lit meup to the idea.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, work on it, not in it.
That was what I took away fromthat.
Actually, first audio book Iused to listen to it driving
back and forth to a job and itwas long.
I remember thinking, man, thisis a long book, but it was great
and I probably should revisitit because it was way ahead of
when I needed it.
I still haven't accomplishedthat, by the way.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I'm still working in my business, yeah yeah, exactly,
and there's so much to learnand he leaves it fairly vague,
so it gives you the chance toreally kind of chase it on your
own.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, if you had to start over today, what part of
your life would you go back toand what would you do
differently?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
You know, I think it goes back to that fear concept,
right, Like, if I could haverecognized earlier um to chase
my own dreams, um, I would havedone that.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I like that.
That's so good.
Uh, if, uh, if if there was aquestion I should ask you today
and I didn't, what would thatquestion have been and how would
you have answered that?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's a great question, you know.
For me, I think, how do youjust find satisfaction in what
you do?
And for me that satisfactionjust comes from I really thrive
off of three things.
We've talked about the firstone curiosity.
Thrive off of three things.
(19:09):
We've talked about the firstone curiosity.
I love the idea of empathy andalong with that comes kind of a
vulnerability side to it.
And then the third one isaround humility.
And I think, if you can walkinto, I work in a lot of
different industries.
I work in a lot of differentcompanies and people say, well,
do you know anything abouthealthcare?
Do you know anything aboutinsurance?
(19:30):
No, I don't, but I do knowprocess and I understand data
and I understand strategy and wecan build building blocks and
all those things.
But to do that you have toemploy those three ideas of
curiosity, empathy and humilityand recognize you're never going
to be the smartest person inthe room.
(19:52):
You don't have to knoweverything.
You have to ask good questions,ask for their story and
everything.
I think everything is solvableat that point.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I find the healthcare is a great example, by the way,
I think it's a fantasticexample of in business,
especially that industry.
Financial services is anotherone where they're like well, do
what you know about banking orfinancial or healthcare.
And my answer and I was like aprofessional consultant for 20
some years and I said I don'thave to you do my job is to get
information out of you to solveyour problem, because if you
(20:24):
stay within your own box, you'llonly keep creating your own
things.
I come out with an associationidea of perspective, leveraging
your input and most of the timethat got people over it.
Healthcare they're almost likenope, you got to be from
healthcare to solve this problem.
Like, do I?
Because you can't solve it andyou're in healthcare and it was
always maddening to me of thatmindset and arrogance that you
(20:46):
have to be from it.
It's the only way we'll hire.
Well, you're going to keeprepeating the same problems if
you've never had any outsideperspective.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
The mantra I use is the genius was in the room and I
walked in, and it's in everysituation.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Absolutely People out there listening.
If you're one of those peoplewho know how to get information
from people and apply it, thisis the mantra that you should
use.
Is I don't have to know in myindustry fully, you do.
I know how to take yourinformation to do something with
it to solve your problem.
That's what I'm good at in anyindustry, so I love that.
Uh, thank you, by the way, somuch, jason, for just taking the
moments with me today.
You've been fantastic and Iwant you to do that.
(21:29):
I'll be shameless.
Plug for real.
Who should get ahold of you?
How do they do it?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, if you want to find me, you can find me on
LinkedIn, and you can also findme in Peel Business Design
Peelbusinessdesigncom.
Right there on the screen.
I would love to talk to you ifthere's any way we can help.
We believe that businessdeserves design, and so that's
what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Thank you, by the way .
Once again, I really amgrateful for the time you've
given.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Everyone listen at this point.
This is your first time.
I hope it's the first of manyTune in.
We do these kind ofconversations to help you get
perspective on how to cut ties,what people did, how they felt,
and so go out there today justfigure out what the tie is you
need to cut and start cuttingthat tie and achieve the success
that you've defined foryourself.
Thanks for listening.
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