What if the biggest thing holding you back financially is not your income, your discipline, or your business, but the system you were handed without ever questioning it?
In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Mark Willis, a Certified Financial Planner who challenges the default American money playbook. Mark explains why banks quietly control most people’s financial lives, how debt and cash both keep you trapped, and what it actually means to fire your banker and become your own source of financing.
This conversation is especially relevant for entrepreneurs, executives, and business owners who are making good money but feel like they are still swimming upstream financially.
About Mark Willis:
Mark Willis is a Certified Financial Planner and the founder of Lake Growth Financial. He specializes in helping individuals and business owners grow wealth in ways that are safe, predictable, and efficient. Mark is known for teaching clients how to take control of cash flow, reduce reliance on banks, and implement strategies traditionally used by ultra high net worth individuals. He is the co host of Not Your Average Financial Podcast and co author of The Business Fortress.
In this episode, Thomas and Mark discuss:
- Why banks quietly hold people back
Mark explains how debt, cash, and traditional financial products keep most people stuck on the wrong side of the banker’s desk. - What it really means to fire your banker
How becoming your own source of financing gives you control, certainty, and flexibility. - The hidden cost of paying cash
Why paying cash can be just as damaging as paying interest and how both steal from your future self. - Thinking like a billionaire without being one
Mark breaks down how the wealthy use asset based strategies like buy, borrow, die to legally minimize taxes and maximize control. - Cash value life insurance explained clearly
The role of properly designed whole life insurance in creating contractual wealth and predictable growth. - Why some financial products quietly fail
Mark explains why many indexed universal life policies lapse and why design and structure matter more than marketing.
Key Takeaways:
- There are two types of people
Those who pay interest and those who get paid interest. - Control matters more than returns
Certainty and access to capital often beat chasing higher performance. - Cash is not risk free
Every dollar spent today has an opportunity cost tomorrow. - Design beats products
How something is engineered matters more than what it is called. - Financial freedom starts with awareness
You cannot win a game you do not know you are playing.
Connect with Mark Willis:
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklakegrowth/
🌐 Website: https://newbankingsolution.com
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelfrich/
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant: https://instantlyrelevant.com
Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, ThomasHelfrick, and on the mission to
help you cut the tie.
The metaphoric ones, of course,to whatever's holding you back
from success.
But you got to define thatsuccess yourself.
Because if you don't, you'rechasing someone else's dream.
And today we're with MarkWillis.
Mark, how are you?
Thanks, Thomas, for having meon.
I'm doing great.
Looking forward to be on yourshow.
I appreciate you being here aswell.
(00:21):
So start with who you are, whereyou're from, and what it is you
do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
I'm a certified financial planner.
I work with people who want togrow their wealth in ways that
are safe, predictable.
And in particular, we helppeople fire their banker and
become their own source offinancing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
So you just hear that?
You hooked you in.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Like, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
Though these shows don't actually focus tons on
what you go do and why you'regreat.
Tell me a little bit, you know,peel the onion of high level to
tease somebody uh what thatmeans exactly.
And because that becomes like aunique identifier for you, I
believe, as well.
So tell me, tell me what thatmeans.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Yeah, in essence, um, you know, banks are the main
culprit, in my opinion, my boldopinion here is that banks are
the quintessential force thatholds people back.
And literally it is the tie thatholds us down, whether it's our
financial lives, but also ourour BMI, our suicide rate, our
divorce rate.
I think banks are the biggestculprits in society.
(01:16):
And that's because they hold allthe cards.
But if you can fire your bankerand sit on the right side of the
banker's desk, you can controlyour cash flow, take control of
your future, have more certaintyand agency in your life, feel
like you're swimming upstreaminstead of like a tennis ball
floating down the gutter of yourown life.
I mean, what would happen ifjust 10% of Americans fired
(01:36):
their banker and became theirown banker in essence, and uh
instead?
I mean, that would changeeverything.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
How do you fire a banker?
Like, and and I wasn't aware Ihired one, so I think you could.
Yeah, well, I want to peel thata bit because that's being
selfish and I'm trying to learn.
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
So yeah, it's uh it's something we kind of fall
into.
You know, we're handed thecredit card, we're handed the
401k, we're handed the mortgage,we're we're just told this is
the oh so average way to do theAmerican financial life.
Uh and so we hire our bankerwhen we fall, you know,
intentionally or not sointentionally into their trap,
(02:12):
their honey trap, their uhhoneypot trap.
And so the average American,according to recent census data,
spends 36% of their incomeservicing their debt payments.
And even those people who havepaid off all their debt are
still in the banking businessbecause they are operating and
running off of cash, which isworse than being in debt.
(02:36):
It's like financing it from yourfuture self.
Think of it this way (02:38):
you either pay interest to a banker, like
credit cards or mortgageinterest, whatever, or you pay
cash for your car or whateveryou're buying, and you pass up
the interest you could haveearned on the money.
In essence, you're financing itfrom your future self.
Say it really directly.
If you pent if you spent 50grand on a car today, that might
be 400 grand that you won't haveby the time you die or by the
(03:01):
time you retire.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
But I mean, listen, I I'm a we we paid for cars 13
years ago that were used thenand they're super used now.
Um, and if I could get rid of amortgage and downsize it this
summer, I would.
I would be like, let's sell itand not have a mortgage.
Yeah.
Let's say you do that.
You're on the other side,because there's people who pay
interest and those who get paidinterest.
That's the two types of peoplein the trail.
Like there's those who like NeilDiamond and those who don't.
(03:23):
And uh lost my train of thoughtdoing my own joke.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
Well, there's another, there's another one, uh
two types of people, uh peoplewho think there are two types of
people and those who don't.
There's there's also people,there's also there's also three
types of people, right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Those who can count and those who can't.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Straight.
Um those who didn't get thejoke, you're a no-counter.
Um, so all right, so here, okay,so do you do this through let's
say buying an asset and havingit pay you money back, like a
house or a rental property orsomething that's like that?
Is that is that the nature ofYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
There was a recent uh there's a recent treasury
data dump.
A bunch of IRS data was dumpedinto the public a year or two
ago uh from um ProPublicaactually published it, and it
was 25 billionaires' tax returnsgoing back a decade plus.
That included Elon Musk, MichaelBloomberg, uh, you know, the the
big ones, right?
(04:17):
Uh Carl Ikahn, Mark Zuckerberg,all of them, all of them.
And they all follow the samemethod called buy, borrow, die.
That's the tax strategy whereyou buy assets, specifically
assets that don't create a lotof income.
That's key, uh, because we wantto then borrow against that
appreciating asset, like yourTesla stock or your Facebook
(04:37):
stock if you're Zuckerberg.
Uh, and then that loan is whatyou live on, which is tax-free,
while your asset continues togrow without having to repay the
loan.
And then you pass away and youget a step up in basis to your
heirs.
You just went multiplegenerations without paying a
penny in taxes.
Again, certified financialplanners generally are not
talking about this stuff.
(04:58):
I happen to be one that's not soaverage.
That's the name of our show, notyour average financial podcast.
So we're gonna bring in not soaverage, counterintuitive
approaches to help you thinklike a billionaire, even if
you're living on way less thanthat.
SPEAKER_01 (05:10):
You know, I uh one thing I was exploring as a, you
know, I own a company, you know,we uh everything's outsourced.
I'm just after four years gonnaset up my own W-2 so I don't
have to borrow money from mycompany every year.
Um because you you do need a W-2for certain reasons, but
whatever.
It's like so but the minimal,because you know you're paying
eight and a half points to payyourself, which is dumb.
(05:31):
But anyway, I'm not gonna godown that plan right now.
But indexed universal universallife was is that one of the ones
you look at where you'reeffectively I'm creating a cost
on my C Corp to create a key manpolicy that allows me to save
like a 401k that I get a benefitfrom, but later on, seven years,
eight years from now, I canborrow against it or retire.
And if I die, I just whatever'sleft is there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Oh, Thomas, I'm so glad that you brought that up.
So one of the asset classes wedo look at is something called
cash value life insurance.
That's an asset that's beenaround for hundreds of years,
whole life insurance inparticular has been around for
hundreds of years, and it'sgrown and builds asset value
every year, guaranteed, againstwhich you can borrow to pay for
things like your cars, yourbusiness equipment, etc.
(06:19):
The only gotcha here in what youjust said so well, Thomas, it's
really impressive.
I mean, you know your stuff.
The the tool that you said wasindex universal life insurance.
Now, that's a lot of, there's alot of people out there selling
that these days, but as acertified financial planner,
I've made the business decision.
I don't want that liability onmy books.
And here's why.
This book right here, it'scalled Lapsed, Lapsed, and it's
(06:42):
about the universal lifeinsurance whistleblower by Elon
Moas.
Not Musk, Moas.
And he uh he studied over 20,000indexed universal life policies.
90 is it, 98% of them will lapsebefore the death benefit is
paid.
Now that's a ticking time bombof lawsuits.
(07:04):
And actually, if folks want tolook up where a law line,
there's like a shortage to fundit.
Yeah, there's an increasing costcomponent on IUL contracts in
particular.
So every year you keep it insidethe contract, you'll have to
read your contract to see this.
And again, I've not, we, youknow, I haven't seen your
numbers in particular, but theincreasing cost of the policy
(07:26):
grows every year you're alive,and there's really not much one
can do about it.
So while I love the idea ofcontractual wealth and borrowing
against that asset to createbecoming your own, in essence,
your own source of financing,you've got it, man.
The trouble with is theunderlying chassis with IUL
contracts, they are destined tolapse.
Whole life insurance designedthe bank on yourself way,
(07:49):
though, grows guaranteed.
There's no internal increase incost structure.
You can borrow against the cashvalue.
And crucially, and this isreally cool, and we can move on
when you're ready, but no,listen, it's my show do what a
hell we can do.
All right, all right, man, thisis your show.
So uh, when you borrow against awhole life policy that's
non-direct recognition, I knowit's a mouthful, but the idea is
(08:10):
you borrow against theparticular designed policy, the
cash value will continue tocompound and grow as if there
was never a loan taken.
This is different than the IUL.
You can borrow against an IUL,but it stops the growth when you
borrow against it.
They wash it, they call a washloan, they so they wash out the
growth.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
That's interesting.
So it was explained to me thatit does keep growing because
it's still on the assets.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What they end up doing is theyput that part that you borrowed
against into a fixed allocationand they might give you 3%, but
then they charge you 5%, forexample.
Uh so there's a negativearbitrage there.
Um, not exactly my, I mean,here's what I like about it.
One, with both IUL and wholelife, you're in control of
(08:51):
repaying the loan to the policyyou own.
So in that way, you are incontrol, which again, to be your
own source of financing, you tobe your own banker, you got to
be the one behind the driver'sseat.
You know, you part of theproblem of many people's
financial lives is they're underthe hook, they're under the
thumb of so many bankers andthey have to get up early, stay
(09:12):
at work late, you know, fighttraffic, go to a job they hate
because they're not their ownbanker.
So you've you've found that withwhether it's cash value life
insurance whole life or IUL, youare now in control of the asset
that you borrowed against, whichis so good.
I mean, that's even better thana home equity line of credit
because a home equity line ofcredit, a bank still decides the
(09:33):
terms, right?
And there's no guarantee thatthe house will always grow.
With whole life insurance,though, we've eliminated more of
the risk and we've got some moreuh benefits.
Here's what I mean (09:44):
the cost of borrowing is less and the
guarantees of the cash valuegrow every year.
Now, with IUL, all we know thatgrows guaranteed is the cost,
the internal cost component ofthese policies.
So while it's a really cooltool, as you can tell, and for
those listening, as they cantell, there's some minutiae in
(10:04):
how it's designed.
You know, I could say, hey, carsare great, or hey, cars are, you
know, worthless.
The question wouldn't be, areall cars great or all caller
cars worth it, worthless?
What you'd want to find out iswhich car?
How was it designed?
What was it engineered?
How was the chassis underneath?
Is it a Ford Pinto or is it aLamborghini Maserati, whatever?
(10:26):
So the key is the design and theengineering.
And did the engineer know whathe or she was doing when he
built it for you?
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Yeah.
And so it's, I mean, listen, andI'm looking into them this year.
So I'll definitely follow upwith you.
Just establish creds.
Give me a little bit on yourjourney then.
Sure.
Uh, and maybe some of the thingsyou you you've had these,
obviously you have an opinion onplanning.
Uh, so that there was some kindof like maybe metaphoric tie to
cut in that moment to say, I'mnot going to do it that way.
But before you begin, start withwhat is success to you, though.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Oh, yeah.
Well, to me, it's the idea atthe end saying it was all spent
well.
And I don't just mean money, Imean time, energy, and
attention.
Those are the four um currenciesthat I follow in my life.
And it spells team, the moneycurrencies of time, energy,
attention, and money.
Also meat, to be clear.
Ah, yeah, I like that.
(11:15):
Uh so you know, and that thatactually tastes a lot better.
So um homemade.
Yeah, that's right.
Uh so mate, yeah.
So is it spent well?
At the beginning of your life,the word potential is a good
word.
At the end of your life,potential is a horrible, scary
word.
You know, on on your gravestone,you don't want the words he had
(11:36):
such potential.
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
Right.
Well, what is uh haven't had?
Yeah.
It's a one one's a bag ofregrets, one's a bag of hope,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Bag of hope, yeah.
Yeah, I'd rather the latterthere.
So that that's what I mean whenwhen when you ask like what is
what is success, it's it's beingable to say we spent the rocket
fuel well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Nice.
Tell me about your journey.
How'd you get into this?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
It was getting out of debt, first of all, for me.
Uh I graduated in uh aftergraduate school in 2008, which
is Thomas, a terrible time to belooking for work, let me just
tell you, worldwide recessionsand all that.
And I graduated with$120,000 ofstudent loan debt, which was
bad.
So, you know, I jokingly say Imarried two women in college,
(12:19):
um, my beautiful wife and SallyMay.
And we wanted the second wifeout as fast as possible.
Uh, so we went through theprocess of the Dave Ramsey
method of putting money at atthe debt and the debt snowball
method and all that.
And then I realized that thatterrifying reality that you
finance everything you buy.
Again, as I said earlier, eitheryou're paying interest to the
(12:41):
banker or you're paying cash forsomething and throwing away the
interest you could have earnedon that money, effectively
stealing from your future self.
Right.
So I realized that that's truewith a car or ice cream cones,
but it's also true with my debtpayments.
And so someone graciously kindof showed me this strategy we
now call Bank on Yourself, whichuses dividend paying whole life
(13:02):
insurance, the way we've beendescribing.
And it became one of the centralpiece tools in my financial firm
as I became a certifiedfinancial planner.
I really pushed hard on this,three and a half years of study
to see is this thing legit?
Is it just a bunch of marketinggimmicks?
And the more I pushed into it,the more I said, wow, this thing
(13:23):
is the legitimate tool thatcould be the foundation of not
all, but many people's financiallives.
Did you have to uh leave acertain firm to be able to take
that position?
Yeah, cutting the tie for sure.
There's a couple of umconnections there.
One, the employee mindset.
I I was an employee at a uh taxstrategy firm and an accounting
(13:45):
firm.
I also had several other jobs totry to make the bills while I
was paying off Sally Mae and allher cronies.
Uh, but I had to cut the tie.
And I remember the day I was uhdesperately looking for an extra
little bit of income as I wasapproaching the holidays and
thinking, man, this trading timefor money thing is the pits.
So had to cut that tie.
Also, you know, had to leave thedependency of the W-2 salary
(14:10):
mindset when it came to workingfor an employee as an employee
for the tax firm.
I was listening to an accountantmake those phone calls and say,
I'm sorry, Mr.
Client.
I'm sorry, Mrs.
Client.
I know you're 63 years old, butthe market just took a third of
your life savings.
And I was ready to cut that tietoo.
So the Wall Street Casino, theemployee mindset, I was ready
for something brand new.
(14:30):
And so I literally cutting thetie off of my suit and tie and
saying, all right, I'm gonna trysomething that's a little bit
more counterintuitive, employeeto employer mindset, to go to
the entrepreneurial side of thecash flow quadrant, as uh Robert
Kiyosaki would say.
And I've never looked back, man.
I had to have the courage frommy wife to get fixed me out of
(14:52):
the door and uh get me doing it,but it's been a lot of fun ever
since.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
It's uh it's funny too, because at some point
you'll also realize that thesecurity of the W-2 job is
actually a falsity in itself.
Well said.
Uh it is definitely it was athing in the 60s and 40s, and
very you know, the way to getpeople back to work after a
giant recession and for life,and and then it was.
It was the mentality of stayhere, there was some loyalty,
you know.
It does not exist today.
(15:16):
You are you are a cog in awheel, and if we don't need that
wheel anymore, you're gone, orwe don't need that.
It's it's not that it is there'sthere's obviously there's some
people who are very securewithin this and that, and I'm
not smashing corporations forsure, but don't believe that
it's safe at all.
Um let me ask you, uh explainsomething on what you're
selling.
Uh and I think this comes up alot where you know it's so
(15:39):
great, it's front-loaded though,with all your kinds of fees.
So there has to be a commitment.
And I think what a lot of peoplestruggle with, I know I have too
in the past, is what if I can'tmake the payment into it?
So it's setting up the thefundamentals of it so you can
sustain it in good or bad.
Is that a fair way to kind oflook at it?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
Thomas, I'm glad you brought that up.
I don't I don't want to at allcome off as saying this is the
one and only all trick pony thateveryone should do.
Uh certainly not.
It's a tool in the toolbox thatshould be handled alongside the
rest.
You know, I think it's it's Ithink it's a multi-use, like a
Swiss Army knife type tool, butit it has its limitations.
Uh obviously there's an upfrontinsurance cost in the first
(16:23):
year.
If you put 10 grand into asavings account, you'll have
$10,000 and two cents, right?
For the interest that they paidyou.
If you put it into the stockmarket, you might have$12,000 or
you might have$6,000.
We just don't know.
You know, when you put moneyinto a life insurance policy,
even if it's bank on yourselfdesigned, we cut the commissions
by about 70 to 80% over againstordinary life insurance.
(16:47):
So we're cutting thecommissions, we're cutting the
death benefit where all theexpenses go.
But there's still going to be anupfront expense.
So in the first year, you put in10 grand, you might have
something like seven grand,7,500 in liquid cash in the
first year.
Where did the rest of the moneygo?
It went to cover the deathbenefit.
It might be, depending on yourage and health, maybe two,
three, four hundred grand.
Try to make it as small as wecan.
(17:09):
The following years, though, thecash gets more and more
efficient.
I just spoke to a guy.
He's he and I have uh beenworking together for a few
years.
He's got a policy from 2018.
And every dollar he puts intohis policy this year, he has a
dollar and 30 cents in the samemonth.
So as he puts the money in, henow has a 30% cash on cash this
(17:30):
year of return.
And next year, it gets to be 35cents and then 50 cents,$1.50
and$1.75.
So it's more like, I'd say it'sthe difference between a sports
car that can drive you from hereto the grocery store.
That would be a stock, and anand a um, you know,
multinational jet airplane thatcan take you around the world.
The the least efficient mile ofan airplane is the first mile.
(17:52):
And every year you fly thatairplane, it gets more, every
mile you fly, it gets more andmore efficient.
Similar to a whole life policy.
Every year you fund your policygets more and more efficient,
growing faster and faster.
So it's slowed up, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
The first pizza is 10,000.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
That's right.
That's a really good example.
SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
Yeah, that's exactly that's a really good example.
Gotta think a lot more pizzas,guys, because writing is uh the
uh the thing I think I thinkit's interesting with these, and
I think uh where I like it forentrepreneurship, where setting
up 401k is the whole this is younow you're in the the kind of
corporate, you're setting upyour own corporate trap to
yourself.
Uh unfortunately, this worlddoes work on W-2s for qualifying
(18:30):
for you when to buy homes andmortgages.
Um so you hence why sometimesyou need to do that, and there's
all other reasons too.
But um on the financialengineering side, though, whole
life is when it's set up what'scalled a key man policy, right?
Yeah, it creates an expense,either be a C Corp, S Corp,
election, LLC, whatever it is.
Uh, and I'm not a legal person,but so but I'm pretty sure these
(18:50):
are correct.
They create an expense that youcan deduct, which means you
don't have taxable corporateincome, but then you have a
benefit of without getting taxedas well, as the individual key
man.
And what you're doingeffectively is setting up a 401k
for free that you can borrowagainst.
Now, if you need money nextyear, take the 10,000 you would
have put in it, keep it.
If you're like, I think I couldput 10 in this year, maybe next
(19:12):
year I'll put in 50.
And because I obviously or ifyou have a good year, a good
quarter, you can always dumpmore into it.
Correct.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
That's right.
Yeah.
In fact, uh, we did a whole bookon this exact topic.
It's called The BusinessFortress.
It just came out last week.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Yeah, I'll get it uh uh let's talk off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, yeah.
Sounds like we just go to Amazonand support all.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
I'll get you a copy, man.
No, that's totally fine.
I got a couple extra here.
We're trying to get off ourhands.
So it's uh the David Barnett andmyself wrote this book, The
Business Fortress How to Grow,Protect, and Exit Your Business
with Confidence.
We go deep into some of thetopics you and I are discussing
right now, including the key manpolicies, but also the executive
bonus strategies.
Imagine if this type of tool wasthere in the hands of your
(19:56):
employees.
Wouldn't you attract betterpeople, retain better?
People.
And as you said so well, if you,as the business owner, have this
on the balance sheet of yourbusiness, that allows you to
take more risk in your business.
You can expand your business.
We had a gentleman, he he put800 grand from one of his
policies into several big piecesof farm equipment.
Uh, and another gentleman whorecently sold his business,
(20:20):
walked away from his businesswith the sale, and included in
the negotiations of the sale ofthe business a seven-figure cash
value policy that he walked awaywith.
So it was part of his goldenparachute.
Uh so it's an incrediblyversatile tool for business
owners as well.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm looking at it from thatsame thing and evaluating whole
life versus IUL.
So I'll follow up with you withit because I'm sure I'm a slow
buyer.
All right.
All right.
That one uh I it listen, I Ithink when you're you're
listening, and people here arelistening to our typical
entrepreneurs, I think this issuper important from a strategy
of, you know, you you make goodmoney in a year, and all of a
sudden you're facing eithertaking the money and salary and
(20:58):
paying whatever tax 30% is gonnabe for that for state and
federal, or you could take that30%, that money, and create zero
expense on one side and put itto your benefit.
Um where if you had absolutecash crunch, you could still get
it.
You're gonna it's gonna hurt alittle bit, but you could still
get it.
Um but you probably, you know,if you're paying yourself
anyway, it it wouldn't matter.
(21:18):
So I I love this as a thing,it's something that's new to me
and learn about uh a bunch with.
So uh this show's different, andI'm okay with that because I
which means yours is probablygonna get listened to more
often.
Uh now I do I asked two mainquestions.
I do want to do it as consciousof time, but I I want to know if
you could go back in time, uh,when would you go back?
What would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
In my own personal life or as far back as human
history takes us.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
Um you got a book you only can control yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Okay, all right, all right.
Yeah, I was thinking way back.
Yeah, you know, there's somethere's some really important
milestones.
One one little memory, I'll bebrief.
This might go into likechildhood therapy stuff, but I
remember being in one of thosecorn, uh it was like a hay maze,
if you know what I mean.
Little kids, like six years old,crawling on your hands and knees
in the dark in these little haybales.
(22:05):
And I remember some little kids,I loved mazes at the time,
right?
I loved them.
And I couldn't wait to go into ahuman-sized maze.
How cool.
But little kids somehow, youknow, convinced me that it was a
dud maze, that there was a deadend, that it didn't work.
It was a broken maze, whatever.
So I listened to them and Ididn't follow through and I
didn't go through the maze.
Now, if I was talking to mysix-year-old self, I would say,
(22:27):
don't listen to the crowd.
Don't listen to the crowd.
Follow through, find your owndead ends.
Sure, listen to wisdom, people,whatever.
But listen to your gut and say,what's it gonna hurt to just
explore this cave here, thisbeautiful maze?
I coulda, shoulda, woulda,right?
You don't want to shoot all overyourself, as they say, Thomas,
(22:47):
right?
Um, but that's what I would doif I could go back in time.
I'd tell that little kid to keepgoing.
Because that maze did work, andwe saw little kids leaving the
exits on the other side.
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
Except the answer is also crypto.
SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
Yes.
Uh yeah, yeah, crypto, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
1990 by Chris.
That's right.
That's right.
Whatever you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Pets.com, Enron, and all that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
If there was a question I should have asked you
today and I didn't, what wouldthat question have been?
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
No, no, you did a great job.
I think, you know, the, youknow, if you could tell me,
Mark, where the stock market'sheaded over the next 30 years or
30 minutes, uh, we could alsomake some bets there, too.
That would that would be a goodone.
I wouldn't have an answer foryou, but it'd be a great
question.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
How would you answer it though?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Well, nobody knows, and that's the problem, right?
Because we're all putting ourour hopes and prayers on things
that we have no control over.
What if we had a financialstrategy where we knew the
outcome before we even started?
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah.
And listen, I and I think whatyou're describing too is uh in
the 401k game, you're limited byhow much you can put in each
year.
Uh and it is a slow drip.
And it to me it makes no sense,but but why it's limited because
it's clearly designed to keepyou in place.
SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
That's right.
And that's the only method whyis like why would financial
engineering behind why can't Iput as much as I want into that?
Because if you could, it wouldbe a great tool.
It'd be a great vehicle.
Avoid tax, but then there's noway to get it.
But you could take a penaltyanyway.
There's all kinds of things.
SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
And so what you're describing here is definitely
been set up by those who playthe game.
Because there's a method that noone talks about that ultra
wealthy people do, yeah.
Because it ultimately benefitsthose who created the rules of
the game.
Because no one's true.
So you have to have enough toput it in there, but it but it's
also not if you had$10,000 ayear, you can make it work,
right?
(24:27):
That's right.
Yeah, even a couple hundredbucks a month.
$20,000 into 401k, you probablycould put$24,500 into this or
whatever.
That's right.
That's right.
And I don't think I think what Ilove about that in your middle
age, you still have strategy andplan as you start making money
in your business does well,where you're starting to avoid
25, 30% tax potentially put itin there, which then you get a
gain, you get a net gain of 40%,because you might gain 10% or 8%
(24:49):
on that.
And then you can borrow againstit, and then you don't pay tax
on that again, which gives youanother 30% gain.
It's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
There's a uh a financial trail that we can't
stop.
SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
So you're gonna get mecertified.
I'm selling this shit.
That's let's do it, man.
Oh, thank you, by the way.
Uh shameless plug time for you.
Who should get a hold of you?
What's give them one link?
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The best the book is thebusiness fortress, and the way
to get it, you can certainly getit on Amazon, but go to
newbankingsolution.com.
That's new bankingsolution.com.
And we can have a 15-minutephone strategy session.
We've baked in so many greatextras and goodies into that
website, six webinars, a bunchof reading.
(25:32):
You can hear extra podcastswe've done on the topic.
But the book is called TheBusiness Fortress, and you can
get it anywhere on Amazon onlineor newbankingsolution.com.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Thank you, by the way, so much for coming in
today, Mark.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, appreciate it, Thomas.
And listen, anyone who'sbuilding the show, you got some
great advice today.
And I hope your head is spinningfull of ideas of what you could
do next.
Uh, but you know, get out there.
If that's a tie that you've beenholding on to of how do I save?
What do I do?
I'm paying taxes and playing thegame like I'm supposed to.
Uh maybe go cut that one andlearn what you could do
(26:02):
differently.
But get out there, make ithappen.
Don't wait.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, ThomasHelfrick, and on the mission to
help you cut the tie.
The metaphoric ones, of course,to whatever's holding you back
from success.
But you got to define thatsuccess yourself.
Because if you don't, you'rechasing someone else's dream.
And today we're with MarkWillis.
Mark, how are you?
Thanks, Thomas, for having meon.
I'm doing great.
Looking forward to be on yourshow.
I appreciate you being here aswell.
(00:21):
So start with who you are, whereyou're from, and what it is you
do.
SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
I'm a certified financial planner.
I work with people who want togrow their wealth in ways that
are safe, predictable.
And in particular, we helppeople fire their banker and
become their own source offinancing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
So you just hear that?
You hooked you in.
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Like, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
Though these shows don't actually focus tons on
what you go do and why you'regreat.
Tell me a little bit, you know,peel the onion of high level to
tease somebody uh what thatmeans exactly.
And because that becomes like aunique identifier for you, I
believe, as well.
So tell me, tell me what thatmeans.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Yeah, in essence, um, you know, banks are the main
culprit, in my opinion, my boldopinion here is that banks are
the quintessential force thatholds people back.
And literally it is the tie thatholds us down, whether it's our
financial lives, but also ourour BMI, our suicide rate, our
divorce rate.
I think banks are the biggestculprits in society.
(01:16):
And that's because they hold allthe cards.
But if you can fire your bankerand sit on the right side of the
banker's desk, you can controlyour cash flow, take control of
your future, have more certaintyand agency in your life, feel
like you're swimming upstreaminstead of like a tennis ball
floating down the gutter of yourown life.
I mean, what would happen ifjust 10% of Americans fired
(01:36):
their banker and became theirown banker in essence, and uh
instead?
I mean, that would changeeverything.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
How do you fire a banker?
Like, and and I wasn't aware Ihired one, so I think you could.
Yeah, well, I want to peel thata bit because that's being
selfish and I'm trying to learn.
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
So yeah, it's uh it's something we kind of fall
into.
You know, we're handed thecredit card, we're handed the
401k, we're handed the mortgage,we're we're just told this is
the oh so average way to do theAmerican financial life.
Uh and so we hire our bankerwhen we fall, you know,
intentionally or not sointentionally into their trap,
(02:12):
their honey trap, their uhhoneypot trap.
And so the average American,according to recent census data,
spends 36% of their incomeservicing their debt payments.
And even those people who havepaid off all their debt are
still in the banking businessbecause they are operating and
running off of cash, which isworse than being in debt.
(02:36):
It's like financing it from yourfuture self.
Think of it this way (02:38):
you either pay interest to a banker, like
credit cards or mortgageinterest, whatever, or you pay
cash for your car or whateveryou're buying, and you pass up
the interest you could haveearned on the money.
In essence, you're financing itfrom your future self.
Say it really directly.
If you pent if you spent 50grand on a car today, that might
be 400 grand that you won't haveby the time you die or by the
(03:01):
time you retire.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
But I mean, listen, I I'm a we we paid for cars 13
years ago that were used thenand they're super used now.
Um, and if I could get rid of amortgage and downsize it this
summer, I would.
I would be like, let's sell itand not have a mortgage.
Yeah.
Let's say you do that.
You're on the other side,because there's people who pay
interest and those who get paidinterest.
That's the two types of peoplein the trail.
Like there's those who like NeilDiamond and those who don't.
(03:23):
And uh lost my train of thoughtdoing my own joke.
SPEAKER_00 (03:27):
Well, there's another, there's another one, uh
two types of people, uh peoplewho think there are two types of
people and those who don't.
There's there's also people,there's also there's also three
types of people, right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Those who can count and those who can't.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Straight.
Um those who didn't get thejoke, you're a no-counter.
Um, so all right, so here, okay,so do you do this through let's
say buying an asset and havingit pay you money back, like a
house or a rental property orsomething that's like that?
Is that is that the nature ofYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
There was a recent uh there's a recent treasury
data dump.
A bunch of IRS data was dumpedinto the public a year or two
ago uh from um ProPublicaactually published it, and it
was 25 billionaires' tax returnsgoing back a decade plus.
That included Elon Musk, MichaelBloomberg, uh, you know, the the
big ones, right?
(04:17):
Uh Carl Ikahn, Mark Zuckerberg,all of them, all of them.
And they all follow the samemethod called buy, borrow, die.
That's the tax strategy whereyou buy assets, specifically
assets that don't create a lotof income.
That's key, uh, because we wantto then borrow against that
appreciating asset, like yourTesla stock or your Facebook
(04:37):
stock if you're Zuckerberg.
Uh, and then that loan is whatyou live on, which is tax-free,
while your asset continues togrow without having to repay the
loan.
And then you pass away and youget a step up in basis to your
heirs.
You just went multiplegenerations without paying a
penny in taxes.
Again, certified financialplanners generally are not
talking about this stuff.
(04:58):
I happen to be one that's not soaverage.
That's the name of our show, notyour average financial podcast.
So we're gonna bring in not soaverage, counterintuitive
approaches to help you thinklike a billionaire, even if
you're living on way less thanthat.
SPEAKER_01 (05:10):
You know, I uh one thing I was exploring as a, you
know, I own a company, you know,we uh everything's outsourced.
I'm just after four years gonnaset up my own W-2 so I don't
have to borrow money from mycompany every year.
Um because you you do need a W-2for certain reasons, but
whatever.
It's like so but the minimal,because you know you're paying
eight and a half points to payyourself, which is dumb.
(05:31):
But anyway, I'm not gonna godown that plan right now.
But indexed universal universallife was is that one of the ones
you look at where you'reeffectively I'm creating a cost
on my C Corp to create a key manpolicy that allows me to save
like a 401k that I get a benefitfrom, but later on, seven years,
eight years from now, I canborrow against it or retire.
And if I die, I just whatever'sleft is there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Oh, Thomas, I'm so glad that you brought that up.
So one of the asset classes wedo look at is something called
cash value life insurance.
That's an asset that's beenaround for hundreds of years,
whole life insurance inparticular has been around for
hundreds of years, and it'sgrown and builds asset value
every year, guaranteed, againstwhich you can borrow to pay for
things like your cars, yourbusiness equipment, etc.
(06:19):
The only gotcha here in what youjust said so well, Thomas, it's
really impressive.
I mean, you know your stuff.
The the tool that you said wasindex universal life insurance.
Now, that's a lot of, there's alot of people out there selling
that these days, but as acertified financial planner,
I've made the business decision.
I don't want that liability onmy books.
And here's why.
This book right here, it'scalled Lapsed, Lapsed, and it's
(06:42):
about the universal lifeinsurance whistleblower by Elon
Moas.
Not Musk, Moas.
And he uh he studied over 20,000indexed universal life policies.
90 is it, 98% of them will lapsebefore the death benefit is
paid.
Now that's a ticking time bombof lawsuits.
(07:04):
And actually, if folks want tolook up where a law line,
there's like a shortage to fundit.
Yeah, there's an increasing costcomponent on IUL contracts in
particular.
So every year you keep it insidethe contract, you'll have to
read your contract to see this.
And again, I've not, we, youknow, I haven't seen your
numbers in particular, but theincreasing cost of the policy
(07:26):
grows every year you're alive,and there's really not much one
can do about it.
So while I love the idea ofcontractual wealth and borrowing
against that asset to createbecoming your own, in essence,
your own source of financing,you've got it, man.
The trouble with is theunderlying chassis with IUL
contracts, they are destined tolapse.
Whole life insurance designedthe bank on yourself way,
(07:49):
though, grows guaranteed.
There's no internal increase incost structure.
You can borrow against the cashvalue.
And crucially, and this isreally cool, and we can move on
when you're ready, but no,listen, it's my show do what a
hell we can do.
All right, all right, man, thisis your show.
So uh, when you borrow against awhole life policy that's
non-direct recognition, I knowit's a mouthful, but the idea is
(08:10):
you borrow against theparticular designed policy, the
cash value will continue tocompound and grow as if there
was never a loan taken.
This is different than the IUL.
You can borrow against an IUL,but it stops the growth when you
borrow against it.
They wash it, they call a washloan, they so they wash out the
growth.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
That's interesting.
So it was explained to me thatit does keep growing because
it's still on the assets.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What they end up doing is theyput that part that you borrowed
against into a fixed allocationand they might give you 3%, but
then they charge you 5%, forexample.
Uh so there's a negativearbitrage there.
Um, not exactly my, I mean,here's what I like about it.
One, with both IUL and wholelife, you're in control of
(08:51):
repaying the loan to the policyyou own.
So in that way, you are incontrol, which again, to be your
own source of financing, you tobe your own banker, you got to
be the one behind the driver'sseat.
You know, you part of theproblem of many people's
financial lives is they're underthe hook, they're under the
thumb of so many bankers andthey have to get up early, stay
(09:12):
at work late, you know, fighttraffic, go to a job they hate
because they're not their ownbanker.
So you've you've found that withwhether it's cash value life
insurance whole life or IUL, youare now in control of the asset
that you borrowed against, whichis so good.
I mean, that's even better thana home equity line of credit
because a home equity line ofcredit, a bank still decides the
(09:33):
terms, right?
And there's no guarantee thatthe house will always grow.
With whole life insurance,though, we've eliminated more of
the risk and we've got some moreuh benefits.
Here's what I mean (09:44):
the cost of borrowing is less and the
guarantees of the cash valuegrow every year.
Now, with IUL, all we know thatgrows guaranteed is the cost,
the internal cost component ofthese policies.
So while it's a really cooltool, as you can tell, and for
those listening, as they cantell, there's some minutiae in
(10:04):
how it's designed.
You know, I could say, hey, carsare great, or hey, cars are, you
know, worthless.
The question wouldn't be, areall cars great or all caller
cars worth it, worthless?
What you'd want to find out iswhich car?
How was it designed?
What was it engineered?
How was the chassis underneath?
Is it a Ford Pinto or is it aLamborghini Maserati, whatever?
(10:26):
So the key is the design and theengineering.
And did the engineer know whathe or she was doing when he
built it for you?
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Yeah.
And so it's, I mean, listen, andI'm looking into them this year.
So I'll definitely follow upwith you.
Just establish creds.
Give me a little bit on yourjourney then.
Sure.
Uh, and maybe some of the thingsyou you you've had these,
obviously you have an opinion onplanning.
Uh, so that there was some kindof like maybe metaphoric tie to
cut in that moment to say, I'mnot going to do it that way.
But before you begin, start withwhat is success to you, though.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Oh, yeah.
Well, to me, it's the idea atthe end saying it was all spent
well.
And I don't just mean money, Imean time, energy, and
attention.
Those are the four um currenciesthat I follow in my life.
And it spells team, the moneycurrencies of time, energy,
attention, and money.
Also meat, to be clear.
Ah, yeah, I like that.
(11:15):
Uh so you know, and that thatactually tastes a lot better.
So um homemade.
Yeah, that's right.
Uh so mate, yeah.
So is it spent well?
At the beginning of your life,the word potential is a good
word.
At the end of your life,potential is a horrible, scary
word.
You know, on on your gravestone,you don't want the words he had
(11:36):
such potential.
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
Right.
Well, what is uh haven't had?
Yeah.
It's a one one's a bag ofregrets, one's a bag of hope,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Bag of hope, yeah.
Yeah, I'd rather the latterthere.
So that that's what I mean whenwhen when you ask like what is
what is success, it's it's beingable to say we spent the rocket
fuel well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Nice.
Tell me about your journey.
How'd you get into this?
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
It was getting out of debt, first of all, for me.
Uh I graduated in uh aftergraduate school in 2008, which
is Thomas, a terrible time to belooking for work, let me just
tell you, worldwide recessionsand all that.
And I graduated with$120,000 ofstudent loan debt, which was
bad.
So, you know, I jokingly say Imarried two women in college,
(12:19):
um, my beautiful wife and SallyMay.
And we wanted the second wifeout as fast as possible.
Uh, so we went through theprocess of the Dave Ramsey
method of putting money at atthe debt and the debt snowball
method and all that.
And then I realized that thatterrifying reality that you
finance everything you buy.
Again, as I said earlier, eitheryou're paying interest to the
(12:41):
banker or you're paying cash forsomething and throwing away the
interest you could have earnedon that money, effectively
stealing from your future self.
Right.
So I realized that that's truewith a car or ice cream cones,
but it's also true with my debtpayments.
And so someone graciously kindof showed me this strategy we
now call Bank on Yourself, whichuses dividend paying whole life
(13:02):
insurance, the way we've beendescribing.
And it became one of the centralpiece tools in my financial firm
as I became a certifiedfinancial planner.
I really pushed hard on this,three and a half years of study
to see is this thing legit?
Is it just a bunch of marketinggimmicks?
And the more I pushed into it,the more I said, wow, this thing
(13:23):
is the legitimate tool thatcould be the foundation of not
all, but many people's financiallives.
Did you have to uh leave acertain firm to be able to take
that position?
Yeah, cutting the tie for sure.
There's a couple of umconnections there.
One, the employee mindset.
I I was an employee at a uh taxstrategy firm and an accounting
(13:45):
firm.
I also had several other jobs totry to make the bills while I
was paying off Sally Mae and allher cronies.
Uh, but I had to cut the tie.
And I remember the day I was uhdesperately looking for an extra
little bit of income as I wasapproaching the holidays and
thinking, man, this trading timefor money thing is the pits.
So had to cut that tie.
Also, you know, had to leave thedependency of the W-2 salary
(14:10):
mindset when it came to workingfor an employee as an employee
for the tax firm.
I was listening to an accountantmake those phone calls and say,
I'm sorry, Mr.
Client.
I'm sorry, Mrs.
Client.
I know you're 63 years old, butthe market just took a third of
your life savings.
And I was ready to cut that tietoo.
So the Wall Street Casino, theemployee mindset, I was ready
for something brand new.
(14:30):
And so I literally cutting thetie off of my suit and tie and
saying, all right, I'm gonna trysomething that's a little bit
more counterintuitive, employeeto employer mindset, to go to
the entrepreneurial side of thecash flow quadrant, as uh Robert
Kiyosaki would say.
And I've never looked back, man.
I had to have the courage frommy wife to get fixed me out of
(14:52):
the door and uh get me doing it,but it's been a lot of fun ever
since.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
It's uh it's funny too, because at some point
you'll also realize that thesecurity of the W-2 job is
actually a falsity in itself.
Well said.
Uh it is definitely it was athing in the 60s and 40s, and
very you know, the way to getpeople back to work after a
giant recession and for life,and and then it was.
It was the mentality of stayhere, there was some loyalty,
you know.
It does not exist today.
(15:16):
You are you are a cog in awheel, and if we don't need that
wheel anymore, you're gone, orwe don't need that.
It's it's not that it is there'sthere's obviously there's some
people who are very securewithin this and that, and I'm
not smashing corporations forsure, but don't believe that
it's safe at all.
Um let me ask you, uh explainsomething on what you're
selling.
Uh and I think this comes up alot where you know it's so
(15:39):
great, it's front-loaded though,with all your kinds of fees.
So there has to be a commitment.
And I think what a lot of peoplestruggle with, I know I have too
in the past, is what if I can'tmake the payment into it?
So it's setting up the thefundamentals of it so you can
sustain it in good or bad.
Is that a fair way to kind oflook at it?
SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
Thomas, I'm glad you brought that up.
I don't I don't want to at allcome off as saying this is the
one and only all trick pony thateveryone should do.
Uh certainly not.
It's a tool in the toolbox thatshould be handled alongside the
rest.
You know, I think it's it's Ithink it's a multi-use, like a
Swiss Army knife type tool, butit it has its limitations.
Uh obviously there's an upfrontinsurance cost in the first
(16:23):
year.
If you put 10 grand into asavings account, you'll have
$10,000 and two cents, right?
For the interest that they paidyou.
If you put it into the stockmarket, you might have$12,000 or
you might have$6,000.
We just don't know.
You know, when you put moneyinto a life insurance policy,
even if it's bank on yourselfdesigned, we cut the commissions
by about 70 to 80% over againstordinary life insurance.
(16:47):
So we're cutting thecommissions, we're cutting the
death benefit where all theexpenses go.
But there's still going to be anupfront expense.
So in the first year, you put in10 grand, you might have
something like seven grand,7,500 in liquid cash in the
first year.
Where did the rest of the moneygo?
It went to cover the deathbenefit.
It might be, depending on yourage and health, maybe two,
three, four hundred grand.
Try to make it as small as wecan.
(17:09):
The following years, though, thecash gets more and more
efficient.
I just spoke to a guy.
He's he and I have uh beenworking together for a few
years.
He's got a policy from 2018.
And every dollar he puts intohis policy this year, he has a
dollar and 30 cents in the samemonth.
So as he puts the money in, henow has a 30% cash on cash this
(17:30):
year of return.
And next year, it gets to be 35cents and then 50 cents,$1.50
and$1.75.
So it's more like, I'd say it'sthe difference between a sports
car that can drive you from hereto the grocery store.
That would be a stock, and anand a um, you know,
multinational jet airplane thatcan take you around the world.
The the least efficient mile ofan airplane is the first mile.
(17:52):
And every year you fly thatairplane, it gets more, every
mile you fly, it gets more andmore efficient.
Similar to a whole life policy.
Every year you fund your policygets more and more efficient,
growing faster and faster.
So it's slowed up, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
The first pizza is 10,000.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
That's right.
That's a really good example.
SPEAKER_01 (18:09):
Yeah, that's exactly that's a really good example.
Gotta think a lot more pizzas,guys, because writing is uh the
uh the thing I think I thinkit's interesting with these, and
I think uh where I like it forentrepreneurship, where setting
up 401k is the whole this is younow you're in the the kind of
corporate, you're setting upyour own corporate trap to
yourself.
Uh unfortunately, this worlddoes work on W-2s for qualifying
(18:30):
for you when to buy homes andmortgages.
Um so you hence why sometimesyou need to do that, and there's
all other reasons too.
But um on the financialengineering side, though, whole
life is when it's set up what'scalled a key man policy, right?
Yeah, it creates an expense,either be a C Corp, S Corp,
election, LLC, whatever it is.
Uh, and I'm not a legal person,but so but I'm pretty sure these
(18:50):
are correct.
They create an expense that youcan deduct, which means you
don't have taxable corporateincome, but then you have a
benefit of without getting taxedas well, as the individual key
man.
And what you're doingeffectively is setting up a 401k
for free that you can borrowagainst.
Now, if you need money nextyear, take the 10,000 you would
have put in it, keep it.
If you're like, I think I couldput 10 in this year, maybe next
(19:12):
year I'll put in 50.
And because I obviously or ifyou have a good year, a good
quarter, you can always dumpmore into it.
Correct.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
That's right.
Yeah.
In fact, uh, we did a whole bookon this exact topic.
It's called The BusinessFortress.
It just came out last week.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Yeah, I'll get it uh uh let's talk off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, yeah.
Sounds like we just go to Amazonand support all.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
I'll get you a copy, man.
No, that's totally fine.
I got a couple extra here.
We're trying to get off ourhands.
So it's uh the David Barnett andmyself wrote this book, The
Business Fortress How to Grow,Protect, and Exit Your Business
with Confidence.
We go deep into some of thetopics you and I are discussing
right now, including the key manpolicies, but also the executive
bonus strategies.
Imagine if this type of tool wasthere in the hands of your
(19:56):
employees.
Wouldn't you attract betterpeople, retain better?
People.
And as you said so well, if you,as the business owner, have this
on the balance sheet of yourbusiness, that allows you to
take more risk in your business.
You can expand your business.
We had a gentleman, he he put800 grand from one of his
policies into several big piecesof farm equipment.
Uh, and another gentleman whorecently sold his business,
(20:20):
walked away from his businesswith the sale, and included in
the negotiations of the sale ofthe business a seven-figure cash
value policy that he walked awaywith.
So it was part of his goldenparachute.
Uh so it's an incrediblyversatile tool for business
owners as well.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm looking at it from thatsame thing and evaluating whole
life versus IUL.
So I'll follow up with you withit because I'm sure I'm a slow
buyer.
All right.
All right.
That one uh I it listen, I Ithink when you're you're
listening, and people here arelistening to our typical
entrepreneurs, I think this issuper important from a strategy
of, you know, you you make goodmoney in a year, and all of a
sudden you're facing eithertaking the money and salary and
(20:58):
paying whatever tax 30% is gonnabe for that for state and
federal, or you could take that30%, that money, and create zero
expense on one side and put itto your benefit.
Um where if you had absolutecash crunch, you could still get
it.
You're gonna it's gonna hurt alittle bit, but you could still
get it.
Um but you probably, you know,if you're paying yourself
anyway, it it wouldn't matter.
(21:18):
So I I love this as a thing,it's something that's new to me
and learn about uh a bunch with.
So uh this show's different, andI'm okay with that because I
which means yours is probablygonna get listened to more
often.
Uh now I do I asked two mainquestions.
I do want to do it as consciousof time, but I I want to know if
you could go back in time, uh,when would you go back?
What would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
In my own personal life or as far back as human
history takes us.
SPEAKER_01 (21:42):
Um you got a book you only can control yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Okay, all right, all right.
Yeah, I was thinking way back.
Yeah, you know, there's somethere's some really important
milestones.
One one little memory, I'll bebrief.
This might go into likechildhood therapy stuff, but I
remember being in one of thosecorn, uh it was like a hay maze,
if you know what I mean.
Little kids, like six years old,crawling on your hands and knees
in the dark in these little haybales.
(22:05):
And I remember some little kids,I loved mazes at the time,
right?
I loved them.
And I couldn't wait to go into ahuman-sized maze.
How cool.
But little kids somehow, youknow, convinced me that it was a
dud maze, that there was a deadend, that it didn't work.
It was a broken maze, whatever.
So I listened to them and Ididn't follow through and I
didn't go through the maze.
Now, if I was talking to mysix-year-old self, I would say,
(22:27):
don't listen to the crowd.
Don't listen to the crowd.
Follow through, find your owndead ends.
Sure, listen to wisdom, people,whatever.
But listen to your gut and say,what's it gonna hurt to just
explore this cave here, thisbeautiful maze?
I coulda, shoulda, woulda,right?
You don't want to shoot all overyourself, as they say, Thomas,
(22:47):
right?
Um, but that's what I would doif I could go back in time.
I'd tell that little kid to keepgoing.
Because that maze did work, andwe saw little kids leaving the
exits on the other side.
SPEAKER_01 (22:57):
Except the answer is also crypto.
SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
Yes.
Uh yeah, yeah, crypto, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
1990 by Chris.
That's right.
That's right.
Whatever you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Pets.com, Enron, and all that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:07):
If there was a question I should have asked you
today and I didn't, what wouldthat question have been?
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
No, no, you did a great job.
I think, you know, the, youknow, if you could tell me,
Mark, where the stock market'sheaded over the next 30 years or
30 minutes, uh, we could alsomake some bets there, too.
That would that would be a goodone.
I wouldn't have an answer foryou, but it'd be a great
question.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
How would you answer it though?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Well, nobody knows, and that's the problem, right?
Because we're all putting ourour hopes and prayers on things
that we have no control over.
What if we had a financialstrategy where we knew the
outcome before we even started?
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah.
And listen, I and I think whatyou're describing too is uh in
the 401k game, you're limited byhow much you can put in each
year.
Uh and it is a slow drip.
And it to me it makes no sense,but but why it's limited because
it's clearly designed to keepyou in place.
SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
That's right.
And that's the only method whyis like why would financial
engineering behind why can't Iput as much as I want into that?
Because if you could, it wouldbe a great tool.
It'd be a great vehicle.
Avoid tax, but then there's noway to get it.
But you could take a penaltyanyway.
There's all kinds of things.
SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
And so what you're describing here is definitely
been set up by those who playthe game.
Because there's a method that noone talks about that ultra
wealthy people do, yeah.
Because it ultimately benefitsthose who created the rules of
the game.
Because no one's true.
So you have to have enough toput it in there, but it but it's
also not if you had$10,000 ayear, you can make it work,
right?
(24:27):
That's right.
Yeah, even a couple hundredbucks a month.
$20,000 into 401k, you probablycould put$24,500 into this or
whatever.
That's right.
That's right.
And I don't think I think what Ilove about that in your middle
age, you still have strategy andplan as you start making money
in your business does well,where you're starting to avoid
25, 30% tax potentially put itin there, which then you get a
gain, you get a net gain of 40%,because you might gain 10% or 8%
(24:49):
on that.
And then you can borrow againstit, and then you don't pay tax
on that again, which gives youanother 30% gain.
It's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
There's a uh a financial trail that we can't
stop.
SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
So you're gonna get mecertified.
I'm selling this shit.
That's let's do it, man.
Oh, thank you, by the way.
Uh shameless plug time for you.
Who should get a hold of you?
What's give them one link?
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The best the book is thebusiness fortress, and the way
to get it, you can certainly getit on Amazon, but go to
newbankingsolution.com.
That's new bankingsolution.com.
And we can have a 15-minutephone strategy session.
We've baked in so many greatextras and goodies into that
website, six webinars, a bunchof reading.
(25:32):
You can hear extra podcastswe've done on the topic.
But the book is called TheBusiness Fortress, and you can
get it anywhere on Amazon onlineor newbankingsolution.com.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Thank you, by the way, so much for coming in
today, Mark.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, appreciate it, Thomas.
And listen, anyone who'sbuilding the show, you got some
great advice today.
And I hope your head is spinningfull of ideas of what you could
do next.
Uh, but you know, get out there.
If that's a tie that you've beenholding on to of how do I save?
What do I do?
I'm paying taxes and playing thegame like I'm supposed to.
Uh maybe go cut that one andlearn what you could do
(26:02):
differently.
But get out there, make ithappen.
Don't wait.
Thanks for listening.
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