January 12, 2026 • 24 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Brian Carmody
What happens when critical infrastructure grows faster than the systems meant to support it? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Brian Carmody to explore the unseen strain data centers are placing on power grids across the country—and why relying on the grid alone is becoming a liability.
Brian shares how his journey from the military to corporate leadership and real estate development led him to a mission-driven model for powering data centers. By combining waste-to-energy systems, on-site power generation, and hydroponic farming, Brian and his team are cutting ties with the grid while giving more back to communities than they take. The result is a smarter, more resilient approach to energy, infrastructure, and growth.
About Brian Carmody:
Brian Carmody is the Director of Finance and Northeast Development at Renewed Developers, an energy and data center property development firm focused on sustainable, behind-the-meter infrastructure. With a background spanning military service, Fortune 50 corporate roles, manufacturing leadership, and real estate investment, Brian specializes in developing data center sites powered by waste-to-energy systems, natural gas generation, and on-site sustainability solutions that reduce grid dependency and revitalize local communities.
In this episode, Thomas and Brian discuss:
- Why data centers are straining the power grid
Brian explains how exponential growth in cloud computing and AI is outpacing grid capacity nationwide. - Turning waste into reliable energy
Municipal waste is converted into renewable gas to power data centers directly on-site. - What “behind the meter” really means
Generating power independently avoids multi-year grid interconnection delays. - Why solar and wind can’t support critical infrastructure alone
Data centers and hospitals require consistent, always-on power sources. - How hydroponic farms close the loop
Excess heat and energy are used to grow fresh food year-round for local communities. - The policy challenges slowing innovation
Rigid energy policies often ignore total emissions and real-world outcomes.
Key Takeaways:
- Grid dependence is a growing risk
Waiting years for interconnection stalls growth and limits infrastructure expansion. - Waste can be a power source
Trash, when processed correctly, becomes reliable, on-demand energy. - Behind-the-meter creates resilience
On-site generation gives developers speed, control, and certainty. - Infrastructure should give more than it takes
Energy, food, and tax revenue can all flow back to the community. - Practical transition beats idealism
Real-world solutions outperform rigid, all-or-nothing energy thinking.
Connect with Brian Carmody:
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briancarmody/
🌐 Website: https://renewdevelopers.com/
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant: https://www.instantlyrelevant.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast.
Hello, I am your host, ThomasHelprick, and I'm on a mission
to help you cut the tie to allthis shit holding you back.
That's right.
From success that you define foryourself.
And if you don't define it foryourself, please do because
you're chasing someone else'sdream otherwise.
But uh today I'm joined by BrianCarmedy.
Brian, how are you?
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Good, Thomas.
Great, great to be here.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
You're just taking time out of your day.
I know you're super busy withyour world, but take a moment,
introduce yourself, who you are,where you're from, and what it
is you do great.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Thank you.
Yeah.
No, I'm uh I'm hailing fromMassachusetts right now.
And um I'm the director offinance and northeast
development for reneweddevelopers.
Uh, we're an energy and datacenter property developer.
SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
So can you can you uh explain what that is to us
who aren't in the industry?
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Oh yeah.
So uh basically we get um we wego out and find land and get it
approved and permitted to createon-site power uh to power the
data centers where all of ourapps live on our iPhones.
Let's put it that way.
You know, all the AI stuff, butsure, even um all the apps and
(01:05):
all, you know, your financialadvisors, your your banks, your
insurance companies, they're allstreaming, you know, information
into the cloud and um and eveninto some AI type models
nowadays.
And those that those computersare housed in data centers, and
that's why there's such a boomin them right now because it's
just you know exponential growthand how we all use computers and
(01:29):
technology every day.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Right.
I don't think people realizethis, and I'll probably say it
wrong so you can correct me, butuh uh my understanding is the
you need you know proximity, uhyou need uh you need obviously
horsepower and cooling power,and that takes energy.
Uh and you got to do it in a waythat's not so expensive that it
drives the price of everythingelse that we're on it.
So you so where you guys findit, some sometimes unique places
(01:52):
to get right.
You guys have to well, you cantalk about that me a little bit
too like you know, you breakthat up better than I did.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Sure.
No, no, but you actually you Imean, as a guy from outside the
industry, you know, you justreally nailed it.
Um so uh there's a lot of uh onthe front page of the news,
right, is the big bad datacenter that comes to your town
and then takes up all the energyoff the grid and drives up the
(02:20):
price of power for, you know,mom and pop on on Sugar Bush
Lane or whatever, right?
So um, and that's that has beenhappening, right?
So, and I I develop theproperties in the sense that
what I do is we're trying to getahead of that that tidal wave
that's coming across the countryand do it in a way that is uh
(02:41):
much softer on the communities.
Uh in fact, our when we prepareland for a data center to come
in and lease ground from us, weactually uh set it up so that
the the data center is providingmore or giving more to that
community than taking.
Let me explain why, because it'snot obvious.
Uh, number one, we like to tryto power these things with a
(03:03):
waste to energy plant.
So basically, we solve a coupleof problems at once.
Um we set up a plant where wetake waste, uh like municipal
solid waste, we lower the costor the price of that waste
hauling for for the city, forthe municipality.
So we we help the taxpayerthere.
(03:23):
Um, we take the trash and turnit into this synthetic renewable
gas.
And the gas then turns into uhelectricity, which powers the
data center on site.
And then from there, we're noteven done.
We have a co-located hydroponicfarm and we put these in a uh a
40-foot tractor trailer likecontainer, a freight container.
(03:46):
And that 40-foot container hydrofarm uh creates five tons of
food per year.
Um, you know, so you can and youcan do it anywhere, you can put
it anywhere, and it grows allyear.
So, you know, in zero degreeweather in Connecticut, the
local community can get you knowfresh spinach and fresh kale
(04:08):
right from the community, youknow, instead of trucking it
from Florida or Atlanta or youknow, Georgia, Texas, whatever.
So um, which has lots ofbenefits as well.
So it's like this cert, youknow, you can see the circle.
We take the trash, we turn itinto gas, which turns it into
electricity, which feeds thedata center, which creates the
food.
And what we do with that food iswe donate most of it to um local
(04:32):
food banks um and charities andand that type of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
So that's a great value proposition for getting
the right, you know, thewhoever's in office to get a win
on all fronts.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
I think so.
And it's been working.
So you you hit that you run thehead.
It's like, and we're huge ongiving other people the credit,
you know what I mean?
Like the politicians andeverybody, just like, hey, you
want to look good, don't youknow, donate the you know, you
can claim credit for setting upthe whole thing.
You can claim credit for eventhe the donations, the
charitable donations out ofthem.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
You know, uh do you guys do uh I know we're getting
the weeds a little, and thisseems curious, is why I'm
asking, but uh, do you do uh doyou allow the the the city or
the municipality to share insome of the profits to offset
tax?
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
So they the way they win on taxes is we pretty much I
actually didn't even say this, alot of times we take properties
that have been blighted or arecalled brownfields, you know,
like a an old, ugly gas stationor something like that, right?
That has been shut down, rundown, nope, and there's no,
they're not collecting any taxesoff of that stuff.
(05:41):
So we've turned a few of thosealready into um uh you know
revenue producing properties,you know.
So they they win big time whenwe come into town and and create
properties that can actually payserious taxes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:56):
Uh how much space do you need?
Like what's the footprint?
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
So the smallest one we've done is about an acre and
a half, and we've got somelarger ones that are um up in
the 20-acre range.
And um obviously we can dodifferent size, you know, larger
data centers and larger powercreation on the larger where
there's more space.
And we can put more farms on onthe places where they have more
(06:21):
space as well, too.
So um, so that's another thing.
Like on a property, right?
We at the bigger properties, wesometimes put five of those
hydroponic farms on there on oneproperty, not you know, not just
one.
So that that particular propertyproduces 25 tons of of greens,
you know, for the year.
So it's pretty cool.
(06:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
It is because the soil is getting so whatever.
Uh if you can control that, youdon't need pesticides as big
exactly.
Or control the water with actualbetter nutrients and other
things that would hopefullyretrieve from the plants more
like probably how they were 100years ago, than that our bodies
are more adapt to than whateverit is today.
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
Yeah, it's a pretty clean way to farm.
And um, you know, interestingfact, it's uh that 400 square
foot hydroponic farm thatproduces five tons right per
year, that the equivalent, ifyou were gonna do the farm out
on the ground traditionally,would take you four and a half
acres.
So, you know, we're doing it infour and a half square feet, you
(07:28):
know, the same yield.
And um, and you're right, it'scleaner too, no pesticides and
all that.
And what we do is we run the sothe AI data center, right?
So AI does doesn't just do asteady demand of power.
It goes up when it runs themodel and then it drive dips
down during the day and up anddown.
So when it's dipping down, we'restill producing power.
(07:49):
So we can send the power over tothe uh the farm where they can
store it in in a battery and anduse it around the clock.
Uh so we do that.
We do the we capture the wasteheat that comes off of our
generators and we send that tothe farm.
And we also do stormwatercapture and we recycle that in
the data center for chilling aswell as send it to the farm.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
So we're uh would be crazy one day we could just
capture a lightning bolt into abattery.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
I know.
Just send it up there, right?
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
I mean, like the power grid problem solved.
Oh, here we go.
Like Florence is getting in asweet.
We're good for a month.
I think I mean work bolt oflightning is like all of New
York's requirements for a day.
I think we're actually and likeyou gotta be able to capture
that.
There's gotta be a way to dothat.
There's gotta be.
(08:40):
It's definitely doable.
Let's just leave that.
unknown (08:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
Tell me about your journey into this.
How did you become part of thisjourney?
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
Thanks.
So uh let's see, it's uh Ithere's one theme that kind of
went uh led me through mycareer.
Um back in the mid-90s, I was uhan army officer.
And um one of the best thingsthat my first mentor in the army
taught me was he was Colonel, hesaid, Brian, whenever you're
(09:08):
asked for X, give X plus one.
You know, it's kind of thatlittle math equation, right?
But it's like the the concept ofalways provide more than what
people have asked you for atwork, right?
So it's really served me well.
So after four years doing that,I got a job um with Pfizer as a
salesperson, pharmaceutical rep.
(09:29):
And uh back in the heyday aroundlike 1999, 2000, all that.
Awesome experience.
I got to, I felt like I I hitthe lottery um because I I got
this job that you know was oneof the few companies still that
you know just poured so muchmoney into our training and and
everything, and and the perkswere great and the you know,
pension, you know, retirementplan and everything.
(09:52):
It was just incredible.
And a lot of companies weregetting away from that.
So I was like, wow, I'm set forlife.
This is great.
Four years later, I was justlike, I wasn't challenged
anymore.
I was bored.
And uh I so the kind of thetheme is I I I shrunk, I you
know, I I took a risk and andcut the tie, so to speak, from
from the big cushy Fortune 50company, right?
(10:13):
And I went to work for a smallerregional office furniture
company um and in distribution,and it only because I I wanted
to get closer to customers andand do a little bit more in a
smaller company.
And I happened to work for thembecause I was at dinner one
night with a friend and shesaid, you know, office
furniture, it's not that sexy,but I've worked for some great
(10:36):
people, you know.
And I said, Well, all right,that sounds that sounds pretty
cool.
So I uh I needed a change and Iwent and did that.
So I did that for 12 years andgot promoted throughout there
and everything, but then um madesome connections with with
vendors, manufacturers, vendorsum for that company.
And um again, I got I kind ofstood out to one of the
(10:57):
manufacturers and they said,Hey, we're we could really use
you.
Would you come work for us?
We'll give you an equity equitystake in the company, run the
company as president and grow itfrom they were at the time just
a regional New England playerand they wanted to go national.
So they said, with yourexperience, you know, we we
could use your help.
They were kind of from outsideof the industry, even though
(11:17):
they had this, you know, theywere running a manufacturing
company, they were still, youknow, they wanted my expertise
to come in.
So I, you know, I took that.
I was like, I was kind of burntout where I was, and I was like,
oh, this sounds like anothergreat, great place.
But again, I went to a smallercompany.
And each time I went to one ofthese smaller companies, I
literally took a pay cut.
(11:38):
Um, like, you know, I just did.
And but I I it was worth it tome because it was the challenge
and the mission and everything.
So um, the experience that wasahead of me.
But also the reward was bettertoo.
So even though I kind of cut offmyself from that comfort level,
you know, fat cushion, right?
Uh the the incentive packageswere better, so to speak, right?
(12:02):
So then I'm doing that for awhile, no, 10 years, and uh I
happened to um be getting intoreal estate investing, and I and
I um made a connection to mycurrent uh partner in the in the
company, and um he was actuallyon a podcast.
I literally pulled over fromwork one night and found him,
(12:22):
found his company during as I'mlistening to his interview and
tracked him down and called himup and I said, Hey, I got an
idea for you.
And uh he's we just hit it offfrom there.
And it started off, you know,like oh my gosh, this is neat.
Let's just let's just talk, youknow, as things do.
But uh over uh a year or so, wewe really just started gelling
(12:43):
together and liking um to worktogether and knew we could work
well together.
So now it's like we're full intothis, you know, greening the
data center tidal wave kind ofthing and and make it a you know
a better situation for people.
So we're just all in on themission.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
So great.
It's uh it's cool stuff.
I mean, because it's it's likeyou know, in the in the moment
needed, does good, serves apurpose better.
That it's there.
I mean, like I'm sure there'sdownsides too.
What are your uh what are yournaysayers?
What are their what are thelegitimate ones, not the ones
they make up because ofcompetitive or something else.
But what's the what's thelegitimate concern?
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
With what we're doing right now.
Um the pushback is you know, ifwe get some, it's typically just
in certain states there are umpeople who kind of run the
environmental type um agencieswithin the state, right?
And they're they influence thepermitting and so forth of what
(13:44):
kind of technologies you can useto create power.
So there are some that are justso um they're so extreme with
their power generation, like nomore emissions.
Oil.
Yeah, like no, they they theythey like they won't let they
they're afraid of that stuff,right?
And and we actually we don't usecoal and oil, but we do use
(14:05):
natural gas.
And um it's endless.
They don't want to hear it.
They it's like if it's not solaror wind farm, then they they're
like that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
I mean, like in the northeast.
You spend like a billion dollarsto get something that produces
enough like 15 ohms.
It's like it's okay.
I'm I'm making up the numbers,but I know it it's the ratio to
cost, there's no ROI.
The only ROI payoff was theperson getting the lease payment
because the government saidwe'll give you extra money to
put this thing up.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Yeah, like you're there's some math formula that
it only works because there wasan incentive, there was a
supplement or it doesn't, it'slong been established that the
it neither of those industrieswork if without government
credits and support.
So um, but in a real sensethough, aside from even the
cost, you cannot run criticalinfrastructure like data centers
(14:53):
or hospitals on a cloudy day oruh there's no wind blow.
It's like you can't do that.
You need natural gas right now.
And so we're building that outand we use generators that can
use natural gas today, but canalso you can flip a switch and
start filling that thing with uhrenewable natural gas or
hydrogen down the road.
(15:13):
I'm telling you right now, thosedistribution channels are not
built out.
We've got projects in I wentlooking for them.
No one can deliver any of thatto me.
So, uh regardless of price.
So it's just not it's not builtout.
So we do are we are in an energytransition where we need to use
natural gas at least for now.
(15:33):
Um, and even that is stillcleaner.
I mean, we are reducingemissions compared to diesel
generators, which is the oldstandard.
SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
So I mean you're you're well it's a much more
complicated formula than thatbecause you're reducing farm
needs and some other things,which create, you know, you
know, there's there's a bunch ofit's a that's a quantum
equation, right?
With with some some qualitativeand quantitative pieces that I
wouldn't understand, but andthere's another there.
Um tell me about something withyour with your company, maybe
what's the the company, what'swhat's your occurring biggest
(16:03):
you know, metaphoric tie youguys need to cut to be
successful?
Or the one you're strugglingwith you just won't do, but you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
No, ooh.
Um, well, let me uh the firstthing that came to my mind was
um cutting ties to the grid, tothe utility.
So we um definitely try to doall of our projects behind the
meter, which means behind themeter means we don't need the
utility grid to connect to.
Um we can create the power witheither our our waste of energy
(16:34):
plant or with natural gas comingfrom the pipeline to fuel our
generators and create power.
And that's important becauseacross the country, if you want
to build a new building andapply to the utility grid to con
for a connect interconnectionagreement, you're gonna be told
you're gonna wait in line forfive years before you can get up
and running.
(16:55):
And there's, I mean, whatbusiness can survive that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
You know, uh something in the government,
that's about it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Yeah, right.
So we're chanting, and that'slike every state across the
country.
It's a it's a crisis right now,it really is.
So we're cutting the tie away.
We're trying to get people tounderstand that you gotta stop
relying on the grid.
And there's this thought processthat they don't trust anything
else but the grid, only becausethe grid's been around forever.
But I mean, we've known, we'veall known that the grid is
(17:24):
subject to brownouts for youknow, since the 70s and 80s.
I mean, there's it's notreliable.
So, you know, it's just funnyhow people, um, human beings
have trouble thinking, you know,getting away from their comfort
zone.
Let's put it that way.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Well, it doesn't affect me, right?
We were in we went to Cuba lastyear to you know check it out,
never been there.
Yeah, no alignment politically.
I'm just saying we went there tocheck it out and did locals and
support them.
And uh and they had an entirecountry blackout except for the
hotel we were in, which ran onits own generators because the
that hotel allowed Americans tobe there or pay there, and it
(18:01):
was a family-owned thing thatwasn't owned by the government
somehow.
I did not know how it's on that,but the point is they had their
own generators, and look atthat, they had power, and it's
like maybe anyway.
But I I see it because it's justso fragile.
Like, oh, something went wrongat the dam.
Holds whole country's down now.
(18:23):
I think Guatanamo Bay was finetoo, by the way.
I think they have their owncountry.
It's probably nuclear, to befair.
But um Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, they even have yeah, but they're definitely no,
the government's gonna make suretheir stuff is running,
especially a prison.
SPEAKER_00 (18:37):
And they're they do research, I'm sure, about their
answer.
But yeah, uh little thing we'regonna show apart, but let me
answer this as a final questionof a little what's the question
that people aren't asking thatthey should be.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
You know, the I think well, in our business,
it's in the the industry, peopleshould be asking, you know, what
is the tell me what you know isthe bigger picture overall total
cost of of ownership, so tospeak.
So for example, just gettingpast the the buzzwords and the
(19:18):
headlines of, you know, we don'tuse solar, we don't use wind,
you know, and and and theninstead of just jumping to, oh,
it must be natural gas, which isa fossil fuel, well, you know,
ask me how much emissions we'reactually saving with our
generator.
You know, we used a specifictype of generator with even with
(19:39):
natural gas, cuts down emissionsdramatically.
And then we're doing otherthings like waste of energy
where we're creating noemissions and also solving the
trash problem.
And you know what I mean?
So, you know, just taking sometime to to really learn about it
and not jump to conclusionsright away is you know, what we
all need to do that more anyway,right?
(20:00):
in all parts of our life.
But that's mostly what we're upagainst.
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
It's just the presumption of uh propaganda
media or whatever else.
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Projecting the energy side of their uh are you
seen as who are you seen as athreat to um you know uh really
uh bad policy it's not so muchcertain groups or whatever I
mean like I said there are somepeople who are extremists in the
sense that you know no moredrops of fossil fuels at all uh
(20:31):
starting yesterday which isimpossible but um but there's
people like that but other thanthat it's it's policy and just
educating um legislatures onwell look here's the problems
that you guys have people arecomplaining about how expensive
their power is companies areeither coming to you to put up
data centers or worse they'reblowing right past your state
(20:54):
because some the state next toyou has better incentives and
you guys are going to completelymiss the whole AI economy.
You know so like just teachingthem about the the policy that
makes it safer for developers toinvest in these projects to help
them grow.
Because and there we need thatrisk protection because um you
(21:18):
know we are the ones who areputting millions of dollars on
the line to grow something.
So if you change a policy a yearlater you know on a project that
takes us three or four years tobuild out that's like whoa you
know that's it's bad news youknow if if you pull the rug out
from under us while we're whilewe've got millions of dollars
(21:39):
invested to try to you know growyour state.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
So that's amazing.
So who should get a hold of youin in like you know what's
what's the uh ideal person thatwould you know investor or buyer
or who who would it be thanks umyou know any company uh I always
start with the the people whoneed the rack space in a in a
data center.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
So anybody who works for a company you know it's not
just a tech company it could beyou know a big insurance company
or whatever anybody who's kindof grow outgrowing their their
rack space and want to talk tous about getting into um one of
our co-location centers where wetypically charge less than the
the grid does by the way forpower um that would be awesome
(22:22):
um any kind of private equitycompany that wants to get more
into um investing and financingin these data centers and our
whole chain of of sustainabilitythat's great we've got some of
those but I'm always interestedin talking to more um and we're
doing a big push on um collegecampuses too and helping them
(22:43):
become zero waste campuses bytaking their trash putting it
into our waste energy plant andthen powering their school
operations but also evenbuilding a small data center for
them on their campus.
So they get again a couple ofwins they get to do some AI
research some more you knowattracting students and the top
(23:04):
professors because they're wasteenergy and they've got AI going
on and all this kind of stuff.
So we've got a good package thathelps them market well.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
So when you when you say waste I know you talk about
but what kinds of waste can youuse?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Uh great question almost almost anything really um
all all of the stuff inmunicipal solid waste is fine.
We can even do like old tireslike if there's an old junkyard
with tires we can take that byyou know tons.
We can even use medical waste umit's a little harder to get
permitting for us to you knowand again that could be a big
(23:39):
help if we can continue toeducate municipalities to say
look I know it still sounds alittle scary that somebody's
going to come in and and take inbe a become a magnet for medical
waste right but let me teach youhow what we do.
You know it doesn't sit aroundon the ground anywhere.
We put it right to work and itgets converted into gas right
away.
So um you know we can reallychange we can do that for less
(24:03):
than what hospitals are payingnow which who doesn't want their
hospital to be in betterfinancial shape right so we can
help with that you know yeah Igot more questions but I'll do
them offline with you justconscious of time.
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
Brian thanks for jumping on I appreciate you you
know connecting with me againhere a few years ago but uh
thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Thomas this is awesome thank you you're great
host by the way you're gonnamake me blush what you don't
know is that I spilled somethingall over my pants today and I
have no pants on right now.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
That's that's a true statement.
Thank you.
Anyone who made it this pointthank you for uh for listening
and and if you've been herebefore you know what I always
say uh get out there go cut atie to whatever's holding you
back from your dream yoursuccess uh but define those
dreams and that success yourselfso when you get there you know
it's yours.
Thanks for listening
Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast.
Hello, I am your host, ThomasHelprick, and I'm on a mission
to help you cut the tie to allthis shit holding you back.
That's right.
From success that you define foryourself.
And if you don't define it foryourself, please do because
you're chasing someone else'sdream otherwise.
But uh today I'm joined by BrianCarmedy.
Brian, how are you?
SPEAKER_01 (00:16):
Good, Thomas.
Great, great to be here.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
You're just taking time out of your day.
I know you're super busy withyour world, but take a moment,
introduce yourself, who you are,where you're from, and what it
is you do great.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Thank you.
Yeah.
No, I'm uh I'm hailing fromMassachusetts right now.
And um I'm the director offinance and northeast
development for reneweddevelopers.
Uh, we're an energy and datacenter property developer.
SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
So can you can you uh explain what that is to us
who aren't in the industry?
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Oh yeah.
So uh basically we get um we wego out and find land and get it
approved and permitted to createon-site power uh to power the
data centers where all of ourapps live on our iPhones.
Let's put it that way.
You know, all the AI stuff, butsure, even um all the apps and
(01:05):
all, you know, your financialadvisors, your your banks, your
insurance companies, they're allstreaming, you know, information
into the cloud and um and eveninto some AI type models
nowadays.
And those that those computersare housed in data centers, and
that's why there's such a boomin them right now because it's
just you know exponential growthand how we all use computers and
(01:29):
technology every day.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Right.
I don't think people realizethis, and I'll probably say it
wrong so you can correct me, butuh uh my understanding is the
you need you know proximity, uhyou need uh you need obviously
horsepower and cooling power,and that takes energy.
Uh and you got to do it in a waythat's not so expensive that it
drives the price of everythingelse that we're on it.
So you so where you guys findit, some sometimes unique places
(01:52):
to get right.
You guys have to well, you cantalk about that me a little bit
too like you know, you breakthat up better than I did.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Sure.
No, no, but you actually you Imean, as a guy from outside the
industry, you know, you justreally nailed it.
Um so uh there's a lot of uh onthe front page of the news,
right, is the big bad datacenter that comes to your town
and then takes up all the energyoff the grid and drives up the
(02:20):
price of power for, you know,mom and pop on on Sugar Bush
Lane or whatever, right?
So um, and that's that has beenhappening, right?
So, and I I develop theproperties in the sense that
what I do is we're trying to getahead of that that tidal wave
that's coming across the countryand do it in a way that is uh
(02:41):
much softer on the communities.
Uh in fact, our when we prepareland for a data center to come
in and lease ground from us, weactually uh set it up so that
the the data center is providingmore or giving more to that
community than taking.
Let me explain why, because it'snot obvious.
Uh, number one, we like to tryto power these things with a
(03:03):
waste to energy plant.
So basically, we solve a coupleof problems at once.
Um we set up a plant where wetake waste, uh like municipal
solid waste, we lower the costor the price of that waste
hauling for for the city, forthe municipality.
So we we help the taxpayerthere.
(03:23):
Um, we take the trash and turnit into this synthetic renewable
gas.
And the gas then turns into uhelectricity, which powers the
data center on site.
And then from there, we're noteven done.
We have a co-located hydroponicfarm and we put these in a uh a
40-foot tractor trailer likecontainer, a freight container.
(03:46):
And that 40-foot container hydrofarm uh creates five tons of
food per year.
Um, you know, so you can and youcan do it anywhere, you can put
it anywhere, and it grows allyear.
So, you know, in zero degreeweather in Connecticut, the
local community can get you knowfresh spinach and fresh kale
(04:08):
right from the community, youknow, instead of trucking it
from Florida or Atlanta or youknow, Georgia, Texas, whatever.
So um, which has lots ofbenefits as well.
So it's like this cert, youknow, you can see the circle.
We take the trash, we turn itinto gas, which turns it into
electricity, which feeds thedata center, which creates the
food.
And what we do with that food iswe donate most of it to um local
(04:32):
food banks um and charities andand that type of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
So that's a great value proposition for getting
the right, you know, thewhoever's in office to get a win
on all fronts.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
I think so.
And it's been working.
So you you hit that you run thehead.
It's like, and we're huge ongiving other people the credit,
you know what I mean?
Like the politicians andeverybody, just like, hey, you
want to look good, don't youknow, donate the you know, you
can claim credit for setting upthe whole thing.
You can claim credit for eventhe the donations, the
charitable donations out ofthem.
SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
You know, uh do you guys do uh I know we're getting
the weeds a little, and thisseems curious, is why I'm
asking, but uh, do you do uh doyou allow the the the city or
the municipality to share insome of the profits to offset
tax?
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
So they the way they win on taxes is we pretty much I
actually didn't even say this, alot of times we take properties
that have been blighted or arecalled brownfields, you know,
like a an old, ugly gas stationor something like that, right?
That has been shut down, rundown, nope, and there's no,
they're not collecting any taxesoff of that stuff.
(05:41):
So we've turned a few of thosealready into um uh you know
revenue producing properties,you know.
So they they win big time whenwe come into town and and create
properties that can actually payserious taxes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:56):
Uh how much space do you need?
Like what's the footprint?
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
So the smallest one we've done is about an acre and
a half, and we've got somelarger ones that are um up in
the 20-acre range.
And um obviously we can dodifferent size, you know, larger
data centers and larger powercreation on the larger where
there's more space.
And we can put more farms on onthe places where they have more
(06:21):
space as well, too.
So um, so that's another thing.
Like on a property, right?
We at the bigger properties, wesometimes put five of those
hydroponic farms on there on oneproperty, not you know, not just
one.
So that that particular propertyproduces 25 tons of of greens,
you know, for the year.
So it's pretty cool.
(06:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
It is because the soil is getting so whatever.
Uh if you can control that, youdon't need pesticides as big
exactly.
Or control the water with actualbetter nutrients and other
things that would hopefullyretrieve from the plants more
like probably how they were 100years ago, than that our bodies
are more adapt to than whateverit is today.
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
Yeah, it's a pretty clean way to farm.
And um, you know, interestingfact, it's uh that 400 square
foot hydroponic farm thatproduces five tons right per
year, that the equivalent, ifyou were gonna do the farm out
on the ground traditionally,would take you four and a half
acres.
So, you know, we're doing it infour and a half square feet, you
(07:28):
know, the same yield.
And um, and you're right, it'scleaner too, no pesticides and
all that.
And what we do is we run the sothe AI data center, right?
So AI does doesn't just do asteady demand of power.
It goes up when it runs themodel and then it drive dips
down during the day and up anddown.
So when it's dipping down, we'restill producing power.
(07:49):
So we can send the power over tothe uh the farm where they can
store it in in a battery and anduse it around the clock.
Uh so we do that.
We do the we capture the wasteheat that comes off of our
generators and we send that tothe farm.
And we also do stormwatercapture and we recycle that in
the data center for chilling aswell as send it to the farm.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
So we're uh would be crazy one day we could just
capture a lightning bolt into abattery.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
I know.
Just send it up there, right?
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
I mean, like the power grid problem solved.
Oh, here we go.
Like Florence is getting in asweet.
We're good for a month.
I think I mean work bolt oflightning is like all of New
York's requirements for a day.
I think we're actually and likeyou gotta be able to capture
that.
There's gotta be a way to dothat.
There's gotta be.
(08:40):
It's definitely doable.
Let's just leave that.
unknown (08:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
Tell me about your journey into this.
How did you become part of thisjourney?
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
Thanks.
So uh let's see, it's uh Ithere's one theme that kind of
went uh led me through mycareer.
Um back in the mid-90s, I was uhan army officer.
And um one of the best thingsthat my first mentor in the army
taught me was he was Colonel, hesaid, Brian, whenever you're
(09:08):
asked for X, give X plus one.
You know, it's kind of thatlittle math equation, right?
But it's like the the concept ofalways provide more than what
people have asked you for atwork, right?
So it's really served me well.
So after four years doing that,I got a job um with Pfizer as a
salesperson, pharmaceutical rep.
(09:29):
And uh back in the heyday aroundlike 1999, 2000, all that.
Awesome experience.
I got to, I felt like I I hitthe lottery um because I I got
this job that you know was oneof the few companies still that
you know just poured so muchmoney into our training and and
everything, and and the perkswere great and the you know,
pension, you know, retirementplan and everything.
(09:52):
It was just incredible.
And a lot of companies weregetting away from that.
So I was like, wow, I'm set forlife.
This is great.
Four years later, I was justlike, I wasn't challenged
anymore.
I was bored.
And uh I so the kind of thetheme is I I I shrunk, I you
know, I I took a risk and andcut the tie, so to speak, from
from the big cushy Fortune 50company, right?
(10:13):
And I went to work for a smallerregional office furniture
company um and in distribution,and it only because I I wanted
to get closer to customers andand do a little bit more in a
smaller company.
And I happened to work for thembecause I was at dinner one
night with a friend and shesaid, you know, office
furniture, it's not that sexy,but I've worked for some great
(10:36):
people, you know.
And I said, Well, all right,that sounds that sounds pretty
cool.
So I uh I needed a change and Iwent and did that.
So I did that for 12 years andgot promoted throughout there
and everything, but then um madesome connections with with
vendors, manufacturers, vendorsum for that company.
And um again, I got I kind ofstood out to one of the
(10:57):
manufacturers and they said,Hey, we're we could really use
you.
Would you come work for us?
We'll give you an equity equitystake in the company, run the
company as president and grow itfrom they were at the time just
a regional New England playerand they wanted to go national.
So they said, with yourexperience, you know, we we
could use your help.
They were kind of from outsideof the industry, even though
(11:17):
they had this, you know, theywere running a manufacturing
company, they were still, youknow, they wanted my expertise
to come in.
So I, you know, I took that.
I was like, I was kind of burntout where I was, and I was like,
oh, this sounds like anothergreat, great place.
But again, I went to a smallercompany.
And each time I went to one ofthese smaller companies, I
literally took a pay cut.
(11:38):
Um, like, you know, I just did.
And but I I it was worth it tome because it was the challenge
and the mission and everything.
So um, the experience that wasahead of me.
But also the reward was bettertoo.
So even though I kind of cut offmyself from that comfort level,
you know, fat cushion, right?
Uh the the incentive packageswere better, so to speak, right?
(12:02):
So then I'm doing that for awhile, no, 10 years, and uh I
happened to um be getting intoreal estate investing, and I and
I um made a connection to mycurrent uh partner in the in the
company, and um he was actuallyon a podcast.
I literally pulled over fromwork one night and found him,
(12:22):
found his company during as I'mlistening to his interview and
tracked him down and called himup and I said, Hey, I got an
idea for you.
And uh he's we just hit it offfrom there.
And it started off, you know,like oh my gosh, this is neat.
Let's just let's just talk, youknow, as things do.
But uh over uh a year or so, wewe really just started gelling
(12:43):
together and liking um to worktogether and knew we could work
well together.
So now it's like we're full intothis, you know, greening the
data center tidal wave kind ofthing and and make it a you know
a better situation for people.
So we're just all in on themission.
SPEAKER_00 (13:00):
So great.
It's uh it's cool stuff.
I mean, because it's it's likeyou know, in the in the moment
needed, does good, serves apurpose better.
That it's there.
I mean, like I'm sure there'sdownsides too.
What are your uh what are yournaysayers?
What are their what are thelegitimate ones, not the ones
they make up because ofcompetitive or something else.
But what's the what's thelegitimate concern?
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
With what we're doing right now.
Um the pushback is you know, ifwe get some, it's typically just
in certain states there are umpeople who kind of run the
environmental type um agencieswithin the state, right?
And they're they influence thepermitting and so forth of what
(13:44):
kind of technologies you can useto create power.
So there are some that are justso um they're so extreme with
their power generation, like nomore emissions.
Oil.
Yeah, like no, they they theythey like they won't let they
they're afraid of that stuff,right?
And and we actually we don't usecoal and oil, but we do use
(14:05):
natural gas.
And um it's endless.
They don't want to hear it.
They it's like if it's not solaror wind farm, then they they're
like that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
I mean, like in the northeast.
You spend like a billion dollarsto get something that produces
enough like 15 ohms.
It's like it's okay.
I'm I'm making up the numbers,but I know it it's the ratio to
cost, there's no ROI.
The only ROI payoff was theperson getting the lease payment
because the government saidwe'll give you extra money to
put this thing up.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Yeah, like you're there's some math formula that
it only works because there wasan incentive, there was a
supplement or it doesn't, it'slong been established that the
it neither of those industrieswork if without government
credits and support.
So um, but in a real sensethough, aside from even the
cost, you cannot run criticalinfrastructure like data centers
(14:53):
or hospitals on a cloudy day oruh there's no wind blow.
It's like you can't do that.
You need natural gas right now.
And so we're building that outand we use generators that can
use natural gas today, but canalso you can flip a switch and
start filling that thing with uhrenewable natural gas or
hydrogen down the road.
(15:13):
I'm telling you right now, thosedistribution channels are not
built out.
We've got projects in I wentlooking for them.
No one can deliver any of thatto me.
So, uh regardless of price.
So it's just not it's not builtout.
So we do are we are in an energytransition where we need to use
natural gas at least for now.
(15:33):
Um, and even that is stillcleaner.
I mean, we are reducingemissions compared to diesel
generators, which is the oldstandard.
SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
So I mean you're you're well it's a much more
complicated formula than thatbecause you're reducing farm
needs and some other things,which create, you know, you
know, there's there's a bunch ofit's a that's a quantum
equation, right?
With with some some qualitativeand quantitative pieces that I
wouldn't understand, but andthere's another there.
Um tell me about something withyour with your company, maybe
what's the the company, what'swhat's your occurring biggest
(16:03):
you know, metaphoric tie youguys need to cut to be
successful?
Or the one you're strugglingwith you just won't do, but you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (16:12):
No, ooh.
Um, well, let me uh the firstthing that came to my mind was
um cutting ties to the grid, tothe utility.
So we um definitely try to doall of our projects behind the
meter, which means behind themeter means we don't need the
utility grid to connect to.
Um we can create the power witheither our our waste of energy
(16:34):
plant or with natural gas comingfrom the pipeline to fuel our
generators and create power.
And that's important becauseacross the country, if you want
to build a new building andapply to the utility grid to con
for a connect interconnectionagreement, you're gonna be told
you're gonna wait in line forfive years before you can get up
and running.
(16:55):
And there's, I mean, whatbusiness can survive that?
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
You know, uh something in the government,
that's about it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Yeah, right.
So we're chanting, and that'slike every state across the
country.
It's a it's a crisis right now,it really is.
So we're cutting the tie away.
We're trying to get people tounderstand that you gotta stop
relying on the grid.
And there's this thought processthat they don't trust anything
else but the grid, only becausethe grid's been around forever.
But I mean, we've known, we'veall known that the grid is
(17:24):
subject to brownouts for youknow, since the 70s and 80s.
I mean, there's it's notreliable.
So, you know, it's just funnyhow people, um, human beings
have trouble thinking, you know,getting away from their comfort
zone.
Let's put it that way.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Well, it doesn't affect me, right?
We were in we went to Cuba lastyear to you know check it out,
never been there.
Yeah, no alignment politically.
I'm just saying we went there tocheck it out and did locals and
support them.
And uh and they had an entirecountry blackout except for the
hotel we were in, which ran onits own generators because the
that hotel allowed Americans tobe there or pay there, and it
(18:01):
was a family-owned thing thatwasn't owned by the government
somehow.
I did not know how it's on that,but the point is they had their
own generators, and look atthat, they had power, and it's
like maybe anyway.
But I I see it because it's justso fragile.
Like, oh, something went wrongat the dam.
Holds whole country's down now.
(18:23):
I think Guatanamo Bay was finetoo, by the way.
I think they have their owncountry.
It's probably nuclear, to befair.
But um Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, they even have yeah, but they're definitely no,
the government's gonna make suretheir stuff is running,
especially a prison.
SPEAKER_00 (18:37):
And they're they do research, I'm sure, about their
answer.
But yeah, uh little thing we'regonna show apart, but let me
answer this as a final questionof a little what's the question
that people aren't asking thatthey should be.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
You know, the I think well, in our business,
it's in the the industry, peopleshould be asking, you know, what
is the tell me what you know isthe bigger picture overall total
cost of of ownership, so tospeak.
So for example, just gettingpast the the buzzwords and the
(19:18):
headlines of, you know, we don'tuse solar, we don't use wind,
you know, and and and theninstead of just jumping to, oh,
it must be natural gas, which isa fossil fuel, well, you know,
ask me how much emissions we'reactually saving with our
generator.
You know, we used a specifictype of generator with even with
(19:39):
natural gas, cuts down emissionsdramatically.
And then we're doing otherthings like waste of energy
where we're creating noemissions and also solving the
trash problem.
And you know what I mean?
So, you know, just taking sometime to to really learn about it
and not jump to conclusionsright away is you know, what we
all need to do that more anyway,right?
(20:00):
in all parts of our life.
But that's mostly what we're upagainst.
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
It's just the presumption of uh propaganda
media or whatever else.
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Projecting the energy side of their uh are you
seen as who are you seen as athreat to um you know uh really
uh bad policy it's not so muchcertain groups or whatever I
mean like I said there are somepeople who are extremists in the
sense that you know no moredrops of fossil fuels at all uh
(20:31):
starting yesterday which isimpossible but um but there's
people like that but other thanthat it's it's policy and just
educating um legislatures onwell look here's the problems
that you guys have people arecomplaining about how expensive
their power is companies areeither coming to you to put up
data centers or worse they'reblowing right past your state
(20:54):
because some the state next toyou has better incentives and
you guys are going to completelymiss the whole AI economy.
You know so like just teachingthem about the the policy that
makes it safer for developers toinvest in these projects to help
them grow.
Because and there we need thatrisk protection because um you
(21:18):
know we are the ones who areputting millions of dollars on
the line to grow something.
So if you change a policy a yearlater you know on a project that
takes us three or four years tobuild out that's like whoa you
know that's it's bad news youknow if if you pull the rug out
from under us while we're whilewe've got millions of dollars
(21:39):
invested to try to you know growyour state.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
So that's amazing.
So who should get a hold of youin in like you know what's
what's the uh ideal person thatwould you know investor or buyer
or who who would it be thanks umyou know any company uh I always
start with the the people whoneed the rack space in a in a
data center.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
So anybody who works for a company you know it's not
just a tech company it could beyou know a big insurance company
or whatever anybody who's kindof grow outgrowing their their
rack space and want to talk tous about getting into um one of
our co-location centers where wetypically charge less than the
the grid does by the way forpower um that would be awesome
(22:22):
um any kind of private equitycompany that wants to get more
into um investing and financingin these data centers and our
whole chain of of sustainabilitythat's great we've got some of
those but I'm always interestedin talking to more um and we're
doing a big push on um collegecampuses too and helping them
(22:43):
become zero waste campuses bytaking their trash putting it
into our waste energy plant andthen powering their school
operations but also evenbuilding a small data center for
them on their campus.
So they get again a couple ofwins they get to do some AI
research some more you knowattracting students and the top
(23:04):
professors because they're wasteenergy and they've got AI going
on and all this kind of stuff.
So we've got a good package thathelps them market well.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
So when you when you say waste I know you talk about
but what kinds of waste can youuse?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Uh great question almost almost anything really um
all all of the stuff inmunicipal solid waste is fine.
We can even do like old tireslike if there's an old junkyard
with tires we can take that byyou know tons.
We can even use medical waste umit's a little harder to get
permitting for us to you knowand again that could be a big
(23:39):
help if we can continue toeducate municipalities to say
look I know it still sounds alittle scary that somebody's
going to come in and and take inbe a become a magnet for medical
waste right but let me teach youhow what we do.
You know it doesn't sit aroundon the ground anywhere.
We put it right to work and itgets converted into gas right
away.
So um you know we can reallychange we can do that for less
(24:03):
than what hospitals are payingnow which who doesn't want their
hospital to be in betterfinancial shape right so we can
help with that you know yeah Igot more questions but I'll do
them offline with you justconscious of time.
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
Brian thanks for jumping on I appreciate you you
know connecting with me againhere a few years ago but uh
thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
Thomas this is awesome thank you you're great
host by the way you're gonnamake me blush what you don't
know is that I spilled somethingall over my pants today and I
have no pants on right now.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
That's that's a true statement.
Thank you.
Anyone who made it this pointthank you for uh for listening
and and if you've been herebefore you know what I always
say uh get out there go cut atie to whatever's holding you
back from your dream yoursuccess uh but define those
dreams and that success yourselfso when you get there you know
it's yours.
Thanks for listening
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