January 31, 2024 • 55 mins
Ready to uncover the potent power of femininity and its profound effect on relationships? This insightful episode peels back the layers of complexity surrounding the subject, starting with a deep dive into the FIM score - a tool carefully designed to assist women in understanding what traits men find attractive. We dissect these traits into two categories; visual (looks, appearance, and femininity) and personal (temperament, intelligence, and cooperation). The exciting part? Appearance and femininity are entirely within your control and can be a game-changer in relationship dynamics.
Let's explore more about how men perceive femininity and the surprising fact that this perception can greatly vary depending on their region. Through the lens of a real-life example, we discuss a woman from the bustling city of New York and her brother's completely different, Southern perspective on femininity. We also cover how generational sensitivities can influence a man's perception of femininity and the surprising cues men look for to determine whether a woman is 'wifey material'. And yes, the language you use plays a significant role!
In the last part of our conversation, we take a journey through the fascinating world of relationship dynamics and personal growth. We delve into understanding the nuances of femininity in relationships and how it can vary across various regions. Using the FIM score as a guiding light, we discuss how women can develop their relationship approach and highlight the importance of age and context in the perception of femininity. Plus, the benefits of having a dating coach to help you pinpoint your relationship goals. Unravel the complexities of femininity and learn how to boost your FIM score to an impressive 60! This episode is a treasure trove of insights you don't want to miss.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, guys, this is a very exciting episode.
I am thrilled that we are goingto talk about the female
equivalent of the clamp score.
We've talked about the clampscore in detail and then we've
glossed over it in previousepisodes, referencing the stuff
that we've talked about whatmakes up the clamp score.
But those of you who don'tremember Valden, will you remind
(00:21):
us what the clamp score is?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So the clamp score is a tool of communication I use
with men to help them understandand conceptualize the things
that are attractive to women,and that clamp score is an
acronym for confidence, looks,appearance, money and
personality.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Great, and so we have the female equivalent, which
we've talked about this andtried to come with an acronym
that sounded just as nice asclamp score, but I think we're
not going to be able to achievethat, so we're going to call it
a FIM score and it has an F init but no E and M.
So we'll make that work for usfor this scenario, but I think
(01:03):
it will.
Hopefully it'll do the samething as we flesh it out.
Debbie, do you want to hit uswith what it is?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
For the FIM score.
We have broken it down into sixtraits.
There is looks, appearance andfemininity, then temperament,
intelligence and cooperation,and with those six traits we
have grouped it into two buckets.
So the first bucket is visual,so looks, appearance and
femininity falls in that visualbucket.
(01:30):
And then there is the personalbucket which has temperament,
intelligence and cooperation.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, Much like women .
This goes much deeper.
It gets a little morecomplicated, ok, so let's break
it down, starting with the firstbucket of visual.
We have looks, appearance andfemininity.
Looks and appearance.
I'm imagining I'm going to goahead and put words around
Falden because you're going tohelp break this down for us.
(01:57):
But looks and appearance willwork the same way that does for
men.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I think so.
The separation of them is justto help with the communication
that we can't do anything aboutour looks.
You're five feet tall.
You're five feet tall If you'reCaucasian or African-American.
You can't do anything aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
If you are blonde, though, you can change to be
burnout.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, that's what I mean by looks Like you were born
a way, and your appearance.
However, those are the thingsthat we have a lot of control
over.
We have a lot of control overhow we dress and how we choose
to do our hair or color our hair.
Or some might say, say we havecontrol over how big or small we
(02:39):
are, but that's the difference,that's the distinction between
looks and appearance.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
OK.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, I think, as we've had conversations about
this before this moment withboth the clamscore and the
fimscore, it's a really help,mental model and framework to
add another layer of analysisfor yourself, and so we've been
consistently talking about knowyourself, do some analysis, to
(03:09):
work on yourself, to figure outhow you can improve.
And I think that the fimscoreat least how I view it and I
hope that it comes across thisway is another one of those
tools that you can start to putparts of your personality or
aspects of who you are intothese individual traits, but
(03:30):
more specifically into thebuckets.
I think the two buckets pointthat Debbie made is a really
helpful piece to think about avisual and then the personal or
interpersonal yeah, ok, so thenext one is femininity yes, when
it comes to femininity, whatI've observed is a lot of women
will say, OK, I understand thatmen want me to be feminine, but
(03:53):
what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And the challenge is it's hard for a man to tell a
woman how to be feminine exactly.
He can look at a woman and knowwhat he likes, but for him to
say, OK, do these three things.
It's not easy to communicatethat.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Not as easy as cry during a home or commercial
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
OK, or wear high heels, like there's a certain
sort of femininity that justkind of oozes out of you when
you have it.
But it's hard to teach someonehow to have it Right.
So when women ask the questionOK, how do I be more feminine?
It's just be more feminine.
So that's one point, the answerto the question is in the word
yeah.
I do see a lot of communitiescoming together of women wanting
(04:34):
to be feminine.
So women are trying to teacheach other how to be feminine.
So we'll identify a woman whomen tend to revere.
Oh OK, men like her.
So do we try to walk like her,talk like her, move like her.
So that one, I think, is alittle more complicated than it
should be, because we shouldnaturally be feminine, but it's
(04:57):
like we've been outside of thatrole for so long.
It's how do we get back into?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
it.
So, as I think throughfemininity, I'm trying to think
of the women that I know in mylife that I hold up as men.
I want to be like that, and twopeople come to mind in two
specific parts of my life.
One is a friend of mine.
She's 10 years older than I amand this was actually maybe 10
(05:24):
years ago, a little more and sheinvited me over to her house.
She's so cool, so much coolerthan I am Like, mind you, I'm
like still a teenager and she'sjust so cool.
So, setting the stage, she'sawesome.
And she invited me over to herapartment and I had to go to the
bathroom and she was like, gouse mine in my room.
(05:45):
So I was like, cool, yeah,great, I love it, I want to see
all your stuff.
And I remember closing the doorand she had a nightie on the
back of her door and I said thatis what it's like to be a woman
.
I was like from that point on,I have been a full believer and
in nightgowns, See.
(06:06):
so that's where I think we getcaught up, maybe but that is,
and I tell this story to her allthe time it makes her blush.
She's fantastic and I, like,worship the ground she walked on
still do, actually, and I knowher like personally, Like we are
friends and her hair alwayssmelled of a VEDA hair products
and I needed to have a VEDA hairproducts.
(06:28):
I even went to the same hairsalon she did.
Yeah, I was low key stalker.
But it was all out of admirationand I think you're probably
right that we get stuck on thepieces of it.
Yes, her haircut, or where shegoes to get her haircut, the
products that she uses.
I was sleeping in t-shirts andratty shorts, or whatever.
(06:52):
You're in college.
No one has a sophisticatednighttime routine in college
unless it's a romcom.
And then there's also perfume.
I think perfume is a huge piece, because another one of my
friends that I've met in morerecent years has a perfume for
every occasion, even to go tothe gym.
So obviously, I was like I willbe getting a perfume for the gym
(07:14):
and it's just that feels superfeminine to me To lean into
being extra womanly.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
The leaning into it I think is important Because, for
example, I used to think makeupwas feminine and if I just put
makeup on, I'm justautomatically feminine.
Oh, ok.
And that's not.
I have to lean into the makeupand understand why do I want to
put blush hair in?
So there's something that makeswanting to wear makeup and
perfume and have your hair smellnice.
(07:45):
Wanting to exude that isfeminine, but not just layering
it on.
So if I put on an IT, itdoesn't automatically make me
feminine, but is having thedesire to.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Like the intent behind the act.
Yes, ok, that's what I think.
Ok, valin, do you want to weighon this?
Sure, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
What you said in the beginning I think is most
appropriate.
And then I think femininity isa way of being.
It's not something that you do,it's something that you are
Right and I think if I washaving this conversation, the
FIMS Corp conversation with acoaching client, I would
encourage them to learn moreabout feminine Right, because
(08:29):
it's one of those things thatyou can't really put a checklist
on what femininity is.
There are some things that areobjectively feminine from a
man's perspective.
Like men think dresses arefeminine, most men think long
hair is feminine.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Most men think quiet, demure, cooperative type
personalities that are friendly.
We think that's feminine, andbut then you also have, like I
often talk about, a girl that Idated from New York City many
years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
A.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Valadin dating story.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, love how they always fit in.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And her brother would talk about the types of women
that he won, because I had anissue with women who use
profanity.
But he, like I, love a spicyblah blah, blah blah.
He went on with hisconversation, but he'd come from
a part of the country where thebaseline of femininity is a
little bit more aggressive thanit would if you were in the
(09:25):
South.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So the definition of femininity and how people define
it is very regionally specific.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
No, what I'm saying is let's keep the definition the
same, but let's just appreciatethe fact that it can be,
relative to certain things, andthat's the reason why we call
these things tools forcommunications not necessarily
rules, but from my perspective,if you were talking about
Valadin specifically, I couldgive you my list of things that
I think are feminine and itwould probably be easier for me
(09:53):
to communicate was not femininethan it is to communicate what
is?
feminine from my perspective.
Because let me talk about thisone thing only, because we
talked about it this morning onthe way over here and that's the
profanity right.
So I've coached a couple ofwomen who have the F word in
their regular vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Not in their anger vocabulary no.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's just in their regular vocabulary.
I would ask them, why is thatin their vocabulary?
Because I don't want to.
I'm not trying to reprimand youand say, hey, shake my finger,
you shouldn't do that, but I'mtrying to help them to get a
better outcome.
I personally think it's amasculine thing to do to have
that type of language, and letme caveat this by saying,
specifically for women who areage 40, something in old Right,
(10:37):
because the other part of thisconversation is for women who
are younger the wholegenerational sensitivity thing
plays an effect.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Oh, that's, an interesting point, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, because the reason why it even came up for
me is because when I'm on TikTokand YouTube and all these
places where I hear women likealmost all of them have an F
word coming out of their mouthand beautiful women, but they're
all young.
I won't say they're all young,beautiful women, they're not all
young.
But then I stopped and I thinkto myself about generational
sensitivity and to me that'svery offensive for a woman to
(11:10):
use that type of link.
So if I'm connecting with awoman and trying to make her
mine and she has that type oflanguage off the top, then I
already know which box to puther in and it's not the wife box
, right?
And the problem is men willnever say that, They'll never
tell you that.
But because I'm a coach, I'mgonna tell you that, right,
Because I want you to havebetter outcomes and just to
(11:30):
bring that home for you.
For people in their 20s and 30swho grew up, who were born with
everybody using the F word,they're desensitized to it, so
it's not even as disrespectfulin their world, it's not even
offensive at all in their world.
So for women that are 30 andyounger and you want to throw
the F bomb around.
It's probably not gonna affectyou the way because you're not
(11:51):
after men who are 40, 50 yearsold who are gonna find that
quite unattractive.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's interesting.
I didn't think about thegenerational difference between
the use of Cuss words orprofanity, which also
demographically you call itdifferent things when you're in
different parts of the world.
Cuss word is definitely verysouthern.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah.
Can a guy tell when a woman isjust wearing femininity versus
like really, ooh, excellentquestion.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Okay, now does he give her credit for trying, or
is it like now?
You're fake, you go in theother box.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Not the white box.
So that's a very good question.
Also, the answer is I believeand you heard me say this early
when we were on the way overhere we had a conversation with
my mother on the way over hereand we were talking about some
of these concepts, by the way,ooh, excellent, I know, but I
explained that marriage-mindedmen meet women and very soon
(12:49):
they put them in one box oranother the potential wife box
or the other box.
The other box can mean a wholebunch of different things, but
they make that decision prettyquick, right?
Because a lot of times menalready know what it is they're
looking for and they also knowwhat they don't want.
It's not always the case, butnonetheless, I even think we do
(13:10):
this subconsciously.
Sometimes we say, hey, this iswifey material right here.
So try to remember that.
Last question.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So the first question was can you tell when a woman
is just wearing it versus beingit and do?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
you get credit for it .
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So you don't get credit for it.
Here's the thing if a mandetects that you are wearing
femininity, he's not gonna likeyou any less.
It's tough for me to say men ingeneral, because I know so many
men that are not aware ofthemselves, so let me make sure
I'm talking about men that areaware of themselves.
Men that are aware ofthemselves.
Keep in mind we look long-termright.
(13:47):
When we find a woman, we playthings out.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
That's so nice to hear, because I feel like women
get all of the heat for playingthings so far in advance.
Maybe we just talk about itmore and there are way more
rom-coms about it.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But yeah, we get a lot of heat for playing things
into the future and let me makea distinction between what you
guys do and what we do.
Okay, so I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Again, so that he remains there.
You go, okay, go.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Because I think men who are marriage-minded will
look at a woman and play outwhat marriage would look like to
this one.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But they're already marriage-minded and they're
playing things out because he'strying to assess what his
situation is gonna be like, ifhe's gonna be happy, if she's
gonna go sideways on him, Like awhole bunch of things.
It's different with every guy.
The distinction between thatand what women do they just kick
in and start buying weddingdresses in?
Their mind and things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Or they've already designed the wedding.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
The whole.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
It's all done.
We have kids.
Yeah, I have kids' names Noteson my phone.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
That's important.
A guy will analyze it and say,okay, this is good or this is
bad.
But I think, women, we startedtrying to paint the good picture
and move forward with it.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I'm gonna even say not even the good picture.
They're gonna paint a picturewith a half, like you haven't
even figured out what your paintsupplies are yet.
Like you don't even knowanything about the guy.
And we've talked about thisseveral times about the 30-day
time clock.
Yeah yeah, and you don't evenknow what is his middle name.
Does he have siblings?
Like you don't have any of thatinformation, and I think in
(15:25):
that stage it's probably more ofa attractive thing.
Are you attracted to him enoughto think about the next phase,
because I think that's a piecetoo.
Are you attracted enough?
Can you see yourself kissinghim?
Those are all very goodquestions.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So I do see a lot of marriage-minded women.
Let me not say marriage-minded,it's more so that they're like,
okay, I need to be married now,sure, so they're not so much
deciding whether the guy haseverything they need, it's how
can I make him into what I need?
So I might identify somefeatures in him that are like,
yeah, I don't really like thathe does that, but he could be a
(16:02):
good husband and good father.
I can overlook that.
And they talk themselves intomaking this guy their husband.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, that's never a good idea.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, never a good idea, but I do notice that guys
are like, if there is a signthat she may not be it like he's
done.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That goes to what you've said in the past about
how men are the gatekeepers ofrelationships.
Women are the gatekeepers ofsex and, as you were answering
the question about like playingfemininity and like putting it
on, it felt like playing dressup.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And I think women can pick that out and other women
too.
They can see cause I'm tryingto think through.
I like of my friends and thepeople that I associate with.
Even if they don't have makeupon, they're still very feminine.
Even if they don't have a dresson, they're still very feminine
.
Even when they're like luggingaround a ton of heavy things,
(16:53):
they're still very feminine.
It's just who they are, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And let me talk about the profanity, and forgive me
for sticking to this, but thereason I want to talk about this
because you'll hear women saywhen I find the right person, I
will be feminine.
When I find the right guy.
I will respect him.
And if I'm coaching a guy, Isay to him, I say listen, you
have to find a woman who isalready feminine.
(17:16):
If that's important to you, youhave to find a woman who's
already respectful, right,because if she's disrespectful
over there, if you witness thiswith your eyes and she's
disrespectful and verballyviolent over there, and then she
comes over to you and she'snice and pretty and feminine,
trust me, my friend, in thecontext of marriage the extremes
(17:39):
of your emotions will come outand that verbal violence that
you witnessed over there willcome home to you right.
My wife has never, everdisplayed any signs of verbal
violence, and I knew that wasimportant to me because I'm a
sensitive person myself and I'malso a guy who demands respect.
But I respect other peopleright.
(18:02):
So I know that if you were thetype of woman that I know will
cross that line one day, that Ishould probably not even get
involved.
So don't marry a person likethat.
But the problem is if a womanputs it on, does she get credit
for it?
You can say yes or no.
Guys will give you credit forit if they wanna be around you.
If they put you in a box thatsays, hey, this is a nice
(18:25):
recreational woman, they'll putyou in that box.
And if you put on somefemininity, yeah, you get some
credit for that.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, so does age play a part in this?
Let's go back to my teen storyof my friend that I thought was
the height of femininity.
She smelled great, she wasbeautiful, her hair bounced and
she wore 90s to sleep in Like.
At this point I'm still tryingto figure out who I am.
I would say that a good portionof high school I would have put
(18:53):
myself in the tomboy bucketbecause I was athletic, I played
a lot of sports and I didn'tknow how to do eyeliner.
I did not know how to wearmakeup until I went to college.
Yeah, I felt awkward.
If I tripped and fell, no onewould come and help me get up.
It was actually an ongoing jokethat my mom and I had that if I
sprained my ankle with someonewho just said, get up, you're
(19:14):
fine, whereas other girls, ifthey were to trip and fall, they
would rush to their aid.
And I still feel like that'strue for me.
If I were to fall, no one wouldhelp me get back up.
But in that time we were tryingto figure out who you are and
what is feminine for you.
Like, lily Patterns was nevermy version of feminine.
(19:35):
That's not gonna be like.
I like my dark, bold colors,but is there a grace period for
trying to?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
figure out who you are.
So that's where I was going,because if we're talking to a
population of women that want tobe feminine but they just don't
know yet, and we give them sometips and they're learning from
other women and they're tryingdifferent things to see if it
works, I would hope that a guywould say okay, I appreciate the
effort, We'll take you out ofthe recreation box and put you
(20:01):
in a white box.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yo, that's a good point because I would like to
make another distinction betweenthe woman who wears the
femininity because sheunderstands it's important to
men and basically from amanipulation standpoint.
There's a difference betweenthat woman and a woman who's
learning genuinely, is trying tomove towards femininity, like
(20:27):
she understands that and shewants to be that, she's decided
she wants to be that and she'smoving in that direction.
You get the distinction between.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, and I think you can tell very easily If we go
back to our previousconversation on the sexual
market value.
They're still trying to figureout who they are at 21.
I guess that's why it showsalso how the ages of sexual
market value for men and womenoverlap Somewhere.
Yeah, 28, 29, 30 in that range,because ideally you figured out
(20:59):
more about yourself on bothsides.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I don't know if that's the reason why they cross
over.
It's just that if you look atthe graph, men do that.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Oh, so simple, Mark.
Great love that, love that forus.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
These are just tools for communicating.
The whole femininityconversation is just to help
women understand what's in thelist things that they can do to
have better outcomes right,Because that's what we're after
that's where the clamp scorecame from is I want you to be
able to have something that willlet you look at yourself and,
(21:33):
based on the person you'retrying to sell yourself to, or
that demographic of peopleyou're trying to sell yourself
to, what's valuable to them.
You gotta understand that right, and these are the pieces that
you can look at yourself and youcan assess whether you have it
or whether you don't, and whereyou can work on some things and
where you can't, Because theidea at the end of the day is
just what can we do to helppeople have better outcomes with
(21:56):
regard to meeting theirrelationship goals?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
So this is where I think the gentleman of the world
can help.
When there's something that youlike, talk about it.
I was 30 plus when I learnedthat men wanted to be useful, or
they like to feel useful.
They want to be asked for help.
All my years growing up I feltthat it was bothersome to say,
hey, can you help me with thisthing?
So I thought I was being niceor caring or feminine by not
(22:26):
bothering you, giving you yourpeace, giving you your space.
So I try to figure things outon my own.
But I'm learning now that it'sdifferent.
Like you want me to ask you toopen the peanut butter jar.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Man.
That's a tough conversation tohave, but the reason I say it's
tough to have is because thesurface that is true Men want to
feel useful.
That's just deeply ingrainedinto men.
If there were 10 women sittingat this table and they all had
husbands and boyfriends and youasked them if they asked their
boyfriend to do something, ifhe'd be happy about it, a lot of
(23:00):
them would say no, he wouldn'tbe happy about it.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I would have said no too.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I feel like there's a difference.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
The only point I'm making is that this is a bigger
conversation because, if I washaving a conversation with a
woman about how men like to feeluseful.
I would give her severalexamples and I would walk her up
to the understanding.
A lot of this is inpsychological research.
If you want to connect with aperson like I heard this reason
you want to connect with aperson that's gonna do something
for you, like even if it'ssomething like hold my jacket
(23:27):
while I run to the restroom.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, that does make me feel connected to someone.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm trying very hard.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I'm like I'm working through scenarios.
Yeah, I shouldn't do that moreoften.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I think it's an important conversation when we
tie it to the FEM score, becausewe're helping women understand
what they can focus on or whatthey can prioritize to become
more attractive to men.
So the gold digger conversationhow do I put this?
The traditional man, I wouldsay, appreciates when a woman
says, hey, can you pay for mynails or my hair?
(23:58):
There are some men who they geta kick out of being able to
help a woman feel like a woman.
Seriously, it's a subset of menthat look forward to taking
care of a woman.
That's why the whole sugar babyworld exists.
It's like they're men who justwant to spend on a woman and
take care of a woman.
But then I think, when you golower down on the totem pole,
(24:22):
the economic, scale.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
That's what you mean when you say totem pole.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I think that's where men start to talk about gold
diggers, because one it could betheir experience with women in
the past that she came in, tookhis money and left, or it's just
what they were taught.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I think you're right, Because men who have a
lot of money, they were wastedon women and they feel good.
That one blue jasmine interviewthat we listened to a long time
ago that was what's the word.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I wanted you Shocking .
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It so illustrates how , when you take it down to
economic scale, then a guy it'san insecurity thing, right that
plays a lot into it, becauseI've got to ask myself can I
keep up with what she demandsfrom me financially?
Right, for guys who don't haveto worry about money, they don't
ask themselves that question.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I have a question going back to something you said
a little while ago.
When you think about femininity, you think of demure, you think
of dresses, you think of makeupand long hair.
I do not consider myself to bedemure or meek at all.
I don't even think anyonereally described me as nice.
(25:30):
Probably they would describe meas kind.
Also, my mom says that she'sgreat, by the way.
Love her, but if you arelacking in that traditional
thought of femininity, do youhave to make it up in other
places?
Good question, likeprofessional women?
That's one of the things that,like I, was coming to my mind.
(25:51):
Sorry I'm gonna cut you off,but professional women have and
we've talked about this beforejust the pressures that women
feel around workplace cultureand the way that women are
viewed in work and femininity isacceptable, like an acceptable
level of femininity at work,yeah, so go sorry.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
What I hope people will get from this conversation
is not us trying to tell themthey need to go do something,
but to use this information tohelp them navigate their
relationship goals and what itis that they're trying to do to
get better outcomes.
So here's the example that I'llgive you.
You asked the question doesthat mean I need to work on it
(26:33):
in other places?
I would rather think about itthis way If I'm a woman and I'm
armed with this information toknow that these are the things
that men care about, these arethe things that make him more
attracted to me and I wanna bemore attractive to him, then I
will look at this list anddecide on my own where I can
improve myself.
(26:53):
I might not be able to doanything about my femininity.
Let's just say I can't doanything about it.
I just don't know how and Ican't.
But there are other things onthe list that maybe I can.
And again, I'm thinking aboutthis from the guy's perspective.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Like in the looks and appearance category, the
appearance Any of it Again.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Let me put the guys out there because I know how to
talk about them with regard tothis conversation right there.
But let's just say we'retalking about confidence in
looks, appearance, money andpersonality.
If I don't have a whole lot ofmoney, confidence will go a long
way with women, totally.
A long way with women, and ifyou don't have any confidence,
money will go further than youwould get.
(27:30):
But it will, it just will.
And looks and appearance is thesame thing.
So my point is if you don'thave a whole lot of confidence
and you have a hard time gettingthere, you can work on all of
these things, any and all ofthose things, because the goal
is to get the score up, not onespecific piece, not just
confidence, looks, appearance ormoney or personality.
(27:53):
It's to raise the whole clamp.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I feel like we could insert many scenes from Hitch
right now into this conversation.
Albert Brennan man dude.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I think about it in terms of hitting 100% With the
women.
It's challenging because it'ssix things.
So let's say the perfect scoreis 60.
When I go down the list, I'mlike, okay, looks are okay,
parents is okay, let's skip thefemininity one, let's skip the
cooperation one.
These other three are not thatgreat.
Now, if I want to get as closeas 60 as I can, I'm gonna say,
(28:28):
okay, which area can I work onto bring it up?
I just keep doing that until Imight land at 51, 55, somewhere
there.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
And keep in mind everybody's got different
buttons too right, because forwomen, confidence is more
important to some women but forother women money might be more
important than confidence.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't care if you don't have confidence.
Sure, sure, sure.
So that's where the tailoringto type of person that you're
interested in attracting.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, and I think for this conversation, our goal is
just to get across to the womenwhat's on the list, what we
consider those things to be.
We've covered 50 and Looks andappearance.
Looks and appearance you decide.
Will you get out there in theworld and decide what you're
gonna do to get better atfemininity?
(29:18):
There's some things I can helpyou with, but it's just based on
, objectively, what I know aboutmen.
But even that doesn't play outthe same way with every woman,
and that's the reason.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
let me just make a plug here for a second about
dating coach, because it wasabout that time we had gone a
couple minutes without a plugabout dating coaches?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, because that's the reason why I still recommend
that everybody who's seriousabout being in a successful
relationship have a dating coach.
Because a dating coach willhelp you navigate those things
in those conversations and thosequestions and help you
understand what you need to workon and in the context of what
you need and what your goals are, because you can't have this
(29:58):
conversation out in public.
That's the reason why medicaldoctors don't Medical diagnosis
in public.
Maybe that's a bad analogy.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Some women are who I am.
He needs to take me for who Iam.
And there are other women whowould say, okay, how can I be
better for him?
So if you want to just take thefem score, just to give
yourself a score so you knowwhere you are and know what you
can attract, that's fine.
But if you meet a guy and youcame from these six things like
he really appreciates these four, that's where I'm gonna focus
(30:30):
for this particular guy.
So you can do with theinformation whatever you want,
but in terms of justunderstanding what catches a
guy's eye is these six things.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Do you think that a woman's femininity is connected
to her self-confidence?
Do you think the morecomfortable a woman is with
herself, the more feminine sheis?
No, really.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Okay, flesh that out.
I see a lot of masculinity infemale confidence, mostly
because it comes off as listen,I got this, I know what I'm
doing, I don't need you.
That's not a soft approach.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat you can't be confident, but
it's not the first thing I seewhen I meet you.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And my thought on that when you first asked is
that there's no correlationbetween femininity and
confidence, and I didn't eventhink about what you just said,
Debbie, but it's the fourth wavefeminism movement that has
taught women that confidence is.
I don't know.
(31:39):
I don't even know how toexplain.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
That wouldn't be angry.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
That's the way it feels, that's the way it feels,
but I just don't see thecorrelation.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I think there's another word for it Femininity
and confidence.
When I picture a confidentwoman in my mind I see loud,
aggressive, sure.
But when I picture a confidentman, I see like just grace and
strutting through and I got you,and so, oh, very interesting,
it comes across a littledifferent.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Okay, if I change the question to be if a woman likes
herself, because that doesn'tnecessarily mean confident, it
means that she it's just secure,yeah, yeah, and she likes
herself and she's like in a goodplace.
Is she more feminine?
No, yeah cuz, here's the thingcuz some of it is being, but
also some of it is a.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
it's an active thing, it's not a passive Trait yeah,
I know a lot of women who likethemselves, but they aren't
feminine at all.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I'm just saying there's no court.
To me there's no correlationbetween the two.
Okay, I was gonna say to you Iknow some confident women who
are very feminine, yeah, and soI don't think there's a
correlation between Masculinityand and the woman's confidence,
like the boss babe.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
So the boss babe comes across as very strong,
rigid.
I don't see soft when I thinkboss babe, even though they do
makeup and hair and wear heelsand they may walk nice, it's
like once, once they have thatboss babe mentality.
Some of the feminine it kind ofdrips off.
But when I picture a woman justwalking through and she's being
(33:11):
graceful and her hair isbouncing and you get away for
the perfume and she passes bydefinitely a hair commercial
yeah yeah, there is an elementof confidence there, but it's
not.
I just think it's a differentword.
I like the word security right,like I know who I am, I know
what I'm going for in life, butI don't need to prove to an.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Do you think the media has greatly impacted your
view of a?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Possibly, yeah, are my circle like.
I think I am kind of a obstacleof confident women and it just
comes across a lot as I don'tneed anything from anybody.
I Can do this on my own, I'm incharge.
It has a strength behind itthat comes across as masculine,
as opposed to just being securein.
(33:57):
I know who I am, I know what Iwant to enjoy life.
I like myself.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
That, to me, says so I'll still say no correlation,
and I will say this because Imentioned to you that I know
Very feminine women that arevery confident or very confident
women that that I think arefeminine and maybe we have
different definitions of whatconfidence means.
Right, that might be and likethat, that persona that you're
(34:23):
talking about, that's somethingthat's been sold Sold to women
in a way and you can call itconfidence, but it's much more
than that in that.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, I think there's so many layers to that.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah, maybe you can tell me which word to use in
this scenario.
We have a boss babe, right, shecomes off as confidence at work
, like she just knows what she'sdoing.
She does all these fabulouspresentations and she's really
confident.
But let's say now she, shefinds a guy that she's
interested in and she has toapproach him.
Right, she wants to positionherself so she can be noticed.
(34:58):
But now she's what do I say?
What do I do?
I don't want to come across asIs it that she's all of a sudden
on a confident or like what?
How do you define thatexperience?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
That's feels like she's just out of her element.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, that's you could be confident in working,
not be confident in thebasketball game.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, very specific example, I know right which is
why I say when it comes, when itcomes to the security, like I
can picture a secure, femininewoman, she she goes on stage and
she does this fabulouspresentation and she walks down.
She sees a guy that she likesand she knows.
Well, I just dropped my handkey and he comes over like there
.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Okay, that is just a magical hint.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Like there is no way on earth still got to adjust to
your element of Of.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I feel good about this piece.
I know what I'm doing herebecause I've practiced here.
Mm-hmm, that makes sense.
This part of my life is alittle less practiced, because
I've spent time practicing onthis professional side.
Yep you have to.
There's a teeter-totter thingwhich Again goes back to like
how this, these buckets andthese traits within the bucket
(36:02):
go toward.
We try to improve all thesepieces to increase this as a
well-rounded human.
Yeah, just, ultimately, wherewe want to go is being a
well-rounded human.
But whenever I think about thelike media portrayal of feminine
or like workplace and like thatDynamic that exists, I always
(36:22):
think of this scene in workinggirl 1988, one of my all-time
favorite movies and it has likeMegan Griffith in it and
Harrison Ford and one of histhree romantic movies ever.
And there's a scene where MeganGriffith or, yeah, she's going
to a work cocktail hour and shewears this beautiful dress.
(36:45):
It's like black off theshoulder tool, like tea length
and it's got like sparkles in itand beautiful.
And she is the only woman therein a dress every other woman is
wearing like a pantsuit, likean oversize, like not a cool
Oversize, but like a grossoversized 80s pantsuit.
Yeah, and she's going therebecause she has a meeting the
(37:08):
next day With this guy.
She doesn't know what he lookslike, but she's hoping that
he'll be there.
So, harrison Ford, the guycomes up to her at the bar where
she's like sitting there likesuper pretty, and you know, I
love that you decided to dresslike a woman, not how a woman
thinks a man would dress if hewere a woman right or if she
(37:28):
were a woman, and that's just.
That scene is so perfect and it,like the fashion, is just like
a hard contrast, like reallyaccentuate the fact that she is
so different than the woman thatshe's filling in.
For if anybody's ever seen thismovie, it's awesome and
fantastic.
I think everyone should watchit.
(37:48):
But that scene is one of myall-time favorite scenes Because
it's just.
It summarizes so much of whatwe talk about With how women
think a man is gonna approve ofa woman, when really it's not at
all the case.
And that's where we have thesescores and these categories
right?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Do you guys remember Elimate Clampett?
Is that from Beverly Hills?
I've heard of that.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I Think she was not gonna be our thing.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
I was just watching it recently and in the earlier
episodes and her dad, jeb, kepttrying to get her to put on a
dress.
But she is farm girl, go fishand go hunting and and like the
visual that I have now is theywere trying to get her to wear
femininity.
Yes, because she would have ona dress and she's fighting the
(38:40):
guys and she would hold a gunand Like that is just a clear
picture of what may notnecessarily be attractive to a
guy, but she was really prettyand she looked really nice in a
dress, so where would a guy fallwith somebody like that?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
so man this answer for every man's album, please,
and so this is a tough part,right, Because this is putting
dirty laundry out there in thestreet for the men.
But you've heard me say thisbefore.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Oh, I thought you're gonna give the lawyer answer of
it depends.
No, guys like pretty.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Right, definitely, and it doesn't matter.
Guys just like pretty, yougotta.
If you are an exceptionallybeautiful woman, you got to have
stinking breath or something.
I'm really disgusting to make aguy say, no, I don't want to be
bothered with her.
So the answer to your questionwhere the guys fall on that,
again, I'm Focusing onmarriage-minded men.
(39:33):
Right, and this is the dirtylaundry piece of it men who
absolutely want to be inrelationships, men who
absolutely want to get married,will still entertain a woman he
doesn't want to marry anddoesn't want to be in
relationship.
Okay, right, no, that's not allmen, but the let's just put it
out there as, generally speaking, a lot of men are that way and
(39:56):
the problem with that this isjust to answer your question
when does a guy fall on that?
If she's pretty and she offersopportunity and he can, he's got
what it takes to get with her.
She is open game, like guyswill experience.
There's many women as they canin their single days.
This is, generally speaking,right, this is generally
(40:17):
speaking.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I thought your answer would be something along the
lines of there's a hunting,farming guy out there who will
appreciate those not so womanlyfeatures.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, that's the truth also, because again, that
goes to the Relativeness that Ispoke to about before they're
guys who spend all their timeout in the woods and they don't
want a girl walking around in adress Because they want a girl
who's okay laying down in thedirt with him.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, right Well it's like farmers only.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, but, yeah, but he's got his own flavor of what
feminine?
Speaker 3 (40:51):
I think that's where we learn.
If you can decide the type ofwoman you want to be, yeah, just
make sure you're pairing upwith a guy that appreciates
those things about you the way Iwould have a conversation with
the woman is going back to ourBeginning discussions.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
After you figure out who you are and what you are,
and you figure out what kind ofperson you want, then you got to
go understand what that, whatit takes to get that person.
Yeah, like you got to go do thethings that that he finds
valuable, not what you findvaluable.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
But I would say my perspective has shifted in terms
of the confidence thing.
Now I'm on the same page withyou, valin, in terms of them not
being.
There's no correlation betweenthe two.
I can see a confident womanthat's also feminine and I can
see a confident woman that's notfeminine, and All variations of
that, because I'm tell you,confident, fit women oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Like that's a thing.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Okay, okay.
Guys don't really use the wordconfidence, though, when they're
talking about a woman thatthey're attracted to.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
No, we're way more simple than that.
I mean, our list is short.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
But you can appreciate it when you have it,
but it's not something thatyou're pursuing.
Yeah you're okay with not beingwith a confident woman, with
being with a woman that's notconfident?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Different guys.
Let me give you an example.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I think any woman can be confident when you start
talking about like the love of aright, of the right person can
Make you like those veryfairy-tell-ish right now, but
like the love of a good womanmakes a man, like the love of a
good man to a woman makes awoman, yes, and you can be not
(42:31):
confident in like socialsettings, but you can be
confident in your place in thatrelationship.
And I think that confidencecomes through with so many in so
many other ways, like whetherit's I Don't know like trying
new recipes and being confidentin the fact that, like you can
do this, because if it'shorrible You're just gonna order
(42:53):
pizza right.
Which is what my mom says allthe time.
If this is terrible, orderpizza but she's a great cook.
I feel any to to say that she'san excellent cook and and you
can be confident to try thingsthat you wouldn't have tried
before, because you know thatyour Like the love of your
partner is not based on yoursuccess in certain areas.
(43:15):
It is rooted in who you are,because they know who you are,
and it works both ways for menand women, and so I think that a
seemingly worldly Confidentwoman can be very confident in
ways that only her partner knows.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Mm-hmm, I like that and I was thinking about
Insecurity being the other sideof confidence, I think men and
women alike.
I think we're turned off byinsecure people totally, but not
necessarily from a man'sperspective, not necessarily
turned off by a woman who's notconfident, because that's not a
factor for men, for women, butit is for women for men exactly,
(43:56):
exactly, but and that's justwhat I think right now.
I have to put some more thoughtto that when it comes to my
relationship.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
If I need to call customer service, I am the most
confident woman.
Listen, yeah, I could almost bea Karen almost, but put me on
stage, not so much.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
That's funny.
I have a friend who is IsFantastic at customer service
calls.
Like, literally, I'm like willyou please make this call?
Hold on, I'm gonna get somepopcorn.
This is excellent, it is.
She is so good at it.
So good at it.
It's really important where,like, I will ask her to make my
calls.
Yeah, because I just don't wantto.
(44:37):
I can outsource that to someonewho's better.
I'll get this like empathything and like understanding for
other people in theirsituations.
She does not even a little bitlike it is so good yeah so good
See, I see the company and notthe individual.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, I'm nice to the individual.
It also depends on, like, howmuch patience I have been used
up for me, but that is anexcellent trait.
Hold on to that, I will.
Yeah they'll make you friends.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
So then, in between, I have a manufactured confidence
in social environments.
I'm very secure on a customerservice call.
I am absolutely Insecure onstage.
But if you take me to anetworking event I can fake it
and it will look really natural.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
But in on the inside I'm just like dying, yeah, but
that's the introversion, becauseI'm in the same way.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
I have to really talk my energy up when I'm going to
be amongst you have a hype song.
I.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Used to have a hype song.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I don't what is it.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I will not tell you what it is.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
All right, I used to have a hype song, but I
understand that she and I bothvery much introverted, so I
understand that and plusprofessionally, I that just had
to be in front of people and hadto display confidence and
competence right.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
So confidence is One of those things.
You can fake it till you makeit worse.
Femininity is a not them.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah well, I agree with that state.
Yeah, but none of these hard.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
It is hard, it is very nuanced and it change.
I think it changes in thedifferent phases of your life.
Like I'm trying to thinkthrough mine and I've we've
talked a lot about femininitybecause I think it is just so
nuanced.
Yeah, it changes based on whereI am in my career, what I want,
how am I growing and changing?
Even like we talk aboutappearance being a part of of
(46:32):
femininity, like how has thatchanged since COVID?
Like pre COVID wardrobe versusin COVID wardrobe?
And now we're coming out andtrying to figure out how do we
dress again.
Yeah and like all of that playsinto it, where, like you, could
just have matching lounge setsand that be considered feminine.
What you wear also does play somuch into how you feel and your
(46:55):
feminine energy.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, so you started off by saying femininity is so
hard and you said oh, yeah, yeah, and I was thinking is it that
hard to be masculine?
Let me finish statement.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I was about to make you.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
So you started off by saying Femininity is so hard.
The first thing that crossed mymind is it is easy for some
women and it's Hard for others.
We could say that about mostthings probably.
There's some women who justcame out Feminine and they're
around feminine women all thetime, and I'm not saying one is
good, one's bad.
It's just that to say thatfemininity is hard, it's just
(47:31):
maybe it's trying to becomefeminine as hard.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Okay.
Is there a difference betweenbeing feminine and feeling
feminine?
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I do think there's a slight difference because, for
example, like when I was puttingon makeup, I would say, okay,
this is femininity, but you,looking at me, would probably
see that.
So I felt it, but it wasn'treally there.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
So Femininity is a big topic and is nuanced in so
many different ways and isrelative across the board, and
it's a Lots and lots ofdisclaimers around this one yeah
but the takeaway, again, thetakeaway that I want people to
have from this is understandwhat's on the list of things
that are important to men and ifthere's One, you can prove and
(48:13):
prove.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Well, what I was saying early, that I would
appreciate if the gentleman ofthe world would be more helpful
in that area, because a lot ofthings I don't think they
actually know.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I think that's some of the thing that we've talked
about Even coming up with thislist for us to talk about, like
how to talk about it, and Ithink women don't even know how
to really talk about what theyfind interesting or what they
like so certainly we can'texpect men to.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
So I think women talk about what they like more than
men do.
We talk about flowers andchocolate and dates and all
those things, but men are alittle generic.
I like peace.
Peace means a lot to a guy, butwhen a woman hears peace it's
like how do you bring that down?
Speaker 2 (48:55):
So that's a great example to say that men don't
know how to articulate what itis that they want.
Or actually I'd rather say itthis way Men and women, in a lot
of situations we don't know.
We don't know what we like andwhat we want.
And it's tough for me to saythis because I want to make sure
people get it.
(49:16):
If I say to a guy, men don'tcare about how much money a
woman makes, if I say that to aguy, depending on his economic
standpoint, he's going to have adifferent answer to that.
The guy who's got lots ofresources in the bank, he
absolutely has never thoughtabout how much money his lady
makes.
The guy who's strugglingfinancially, he absolutely is
(49:39):
going to say that he cares abouthow much money she makes.
But that's a circumstantialdecision, not an inherent
internal like and belief.
I don't know if I'm gettingacross what I'm trying to say,
but see, but he doesn't knowthat he's not thinking about the
fact that I know I don't reallycare about her money, but I do
care about her money because hedoesn't have the wherewithal to
(50:01):
say that to himself.
And I'm just using that one asan example.
But across the board I'm tryingto say, and both on the woman
side and on the men side, unlessyou go and you start studying
the psychology of men and women,you start studying the
biological of men and women,like most people just don't do
that.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
So I don't think it's that deep.
So we can make a generalstatement Women like flowers and
chocolate.
Right, I don't necessarily careabout flowers and chocolate,
but if I was teaching a man howto be attractive to women, I
would say buy her flowers andchocolate until she tells you
not to.
It's the same thing I wouldexpect from men.
(50:40):
Could say guys don't like tohave deep conversations when he
just gets home from work.
Guys don't like when youinterrupt his sports game.
Like be specific, so that awoman can visualize what it is
that a guy likes.
When you say be cooperative,it's like what do we do with
that?
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Oh, we're getting into the second tier, oh the
second bucket.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I guess we should get into the second bucket.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
But you get what I'm saying, though I get what you're
saying.
When a woman does something andyou say, I like that, tell the
world, don't just focus.
Like when guys get together andthey talk, they can say, oh man
, the wife been bugging me allweek.
She not, she did.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
I also sometimes dudes do that to bond.
That's not necessarily true.
I feel like no guy's going togo roll up at poker night and be
like can I just tell you howgreat my marriage is right now.
Like we are like on fire and weare in sync.
She's leaving me alone Now.
When I get home from work, I'mgetting to leave without being
worried about it.
(51:35):
How many minutes this is goingto take away from my leave bank
to be able to go places.
Dudes aren't going to do that,Just like women don't really do
that and talk about how greattheir marriages are, unless
something really awesomehappened, and it's usually.
Every story is about how yourhusband brings home a full head
of spinach instead of thespinach bag.
(51:57):
It's always aboutmiscommunication and I imagine
it works on both sides.
But that's what makes it funand you laugh and you know a
good girl's night.
You know that they love theirhusbands.
And they're just the things theysay about their husbands.
Don't color how you view them,because they're just people
trying to like it's a mishap,it's like a who out there knows
(52:19):
what men like, so men.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
The reason?
The answer is get a datingcoach.
Get a dating coach.
You are proving the point thatI'm trying to make, because men
don't.
Even if men know what they like, they're not going to tell
women.
Right, there's not because welisten to what I'm saying,
listen to what I'm saying Notthat I'm saying we don't want
(52:42):
women to know, we don't want totell them.
It's just that men don't.
Men are not thinking about thatstuff Like we.
Just they just don't.
And I'm talking about theaverage population of men out
there, for guys that are walkingaround trying to be red pill
guys and coaches and all of thatkind of stuff.
That's the stuff that theythink about all the time and
they're in, they're part of thediscussion.
(53:03):
We're not talking about thatdemographic.
We're talking about the generalman is walking down the street
out there.
He only thing he knows is I'msupposed to be a little woman
Like women.
Good, let me get one and theyreally don't know.
Like they aren't thinking about.
And women are pretty much thesame way.
Women are more, more interestedin relationships, so they have
(53:25):
a tendency.
There's a whole lot moreresources out there to get them
to the point that they want tobe Right, so they think more
about stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
So again, just because there's more resources
out there doesn't mean that it'sgood Agreed Absolutely.
A lot of it is garbage.
Yeah, I am a sucker for a Cosmoquiz.
Who will not take a Cosmo quizto figure out what their ideal
wedding colors are Like they're?
That's not helping me.
That's not improving my life.
That is not making me a betterperson, but yes, I am going to
(53:55):
click on it.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
So what I'm seeing is we can offer to the audience
hairs in general terms, what isattractive to men and hairs in
general terms was attractive towomen.
Now, when you want to divedeeper, that's when you have to
go one on one.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Well, there's a lot of things you can do on your own
.
If you feel like femininity isone of the places where you lack
, go Google femininity and startdoing some research, read a
book, listen to do somethingRight.
We're just trying to put thelist out there and try to help
shine some light on what it is.
Yeah, but that's what one onone coaching is for is to hone
(54:31):
in on your specific issue, honein on your goals and hone in on
a plan that help you to getbetter outcomes.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Okay, so we've talked about the first bucket that has
three traits Femininity, looksand appearance.
This next bucket of next threetraits would be temperament,
intelligence and cooperative orcooperation.
All right, guys, this is a very exciting episode.
I am thrilled that we are goingto talk about the female
equivalent of the clamp score.
We've talked about the clampscore in detail and then we've
glossed over it in previousepisodes, referencing the stuff
that we've talked about whatmakes up the clamp score.
But those of you who don'tremember Valden, will you remind
(00:21):
us what the clamp score is?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So the clamp score is a tool of communication I use
with men to help them understandand conceptualize the things
that are attractive to women,and that clamp score is an
acronym for confidence, looks,appearance, money and
personality.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Great, and so we have the female equivalent, which
we've talked about this andtried to come with an acronym
that sounded just as nice asclamp score, but I think we're
not going to be able to achievethat, so we're going to call it
a FIM score and it has an F init but no E and M.
So we'll make that work for usfor this scenario, but I think
(01:03):
it will.
Hopefully it'll do the samething as we flesh it out.
Debbie, do you want to hit uswith what it is?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
For the FIM score.
We have broken it down into sixtraits.
There is looks, appearance andfemininity, then temperament,
intelligence and cooperation,and with those six traits we
have grouped it into two buckets.
So the first bucket is visual,so looks, appearance and
femininity falls in that visualbucket.
(01:30):
And then there is the personalbucket which has temperament,
intelligence and cooperation.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, Much like women .
This goes much deeper.
It gets a little morecomplicated, ok, so let's break
it down, starting with the firstbucket of visual.
We have looks, appearance andfemininity.
Looks and appearance.
I'm imagining I'm going to goahead and put words around
Falden because you're going tohelp break this down for us.
(01:57):
But looks and appearance willwork the same way that does for
men.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I think so.
The separation of them is justto help with the communication
that we can't do anything aboutour looks.
You're five feet tall.
You're five feet tall If you'reCaucasian or African-American.
You can't do anything aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
If you are blonde, though, you can change to be
burnout.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, that's what I mean by looks Like you were born
a way, and your appearance.
However, those are the thingsthat we have a lot of control
over.
We have a lot of control overhow we dress and how we choose
to do our hair or color our hair.
Or some might say, say we havecontrol over how big or small we
(02:39):
are, but that's the difference,that's the distinction between
looks and appearance.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
OK.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, I think, as we've had conversations about
this before this moment withboth the clamscore and the
fimscore, it's a really help,mental model and framework to
add another layer of analysisfor yourself, and so we've been
consistently talking about knowyourself, do some analysis, to
(03:09):
work on yourself, to figure outhow you can improve.
And I think that the fimscoreat least how I view it and I
hope that it comes across thisway is another one of those
tools that you can start to putparts of your personality or
aspects of who you are intothese individual traits, but
(03:30):
more specifically into thebuckets.
I think the two buckets pointthat Debbie made is a really
helpful piece to think about avisual and then the personal or
interpersonal yeah, ok, so thenext one is femininity yes, when
it comes to femininity, whatI've observed is a lot of women
will say, OK, I understand thatmen want me to be feminine, but
(03:53):
what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
And the challenge is it's hard for a man to tell a
woman how to be feminine exactly.
He can look at a woman and knowwhat he likes, but for him to
say, OK, do these three things.
It's not easy to communicatethat.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Not as easy as cry during a home or commercial
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
OK, or wear high heels, like there's a certain
sort of femininity that justkind of oozes out of you when
you have it.
But it's hard to teach someonehow to have it Right.
So when women ask the questionOK, how do I be more feminine?
It's just be more feminine.
So that's one point, the answerto the question is in the word
yeah.
I do see a lot of communitiescoming together of women wanting
(04:34):
to be feminine.
So women are trying to teacheach other how to be feminine.
So we'll identify a woman whomen tend to revere.
Oh OK, men like her.
So do we try to walk like her,talk like her, move like her.
So that one, I think, is alittle more complicated than it
should be, because we shouldnaturally be feminine, but it's
(04:57):
like we've been outside of thatrole for so long.
It's how do we get back into?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
it.
So, as I think throughfemininity, I'm trying to think
of the women that I know in mylife that I hold up as men.
I want to be like that, and twopeople come to mind in two
specific parts of my life.
One is a friend of mine.
She's 10 years older than I amand this was actually maybe 10
(05:24):
years ago, a little more and sheinvited me over to her house.
She's so cool, so much coolerthan I am Like, mind you, I'm
like still a teenager and she'sjust so cool.
So, setting the stage, she'sawesome.
And she invited me over to herapartment and I had to go to the
bathroom and she was like, gouse mine in my room.
(05:45):
So I was like, cool, yeah,great, I love it, I want to see
all your stuff.
And I remember closing the doorand she had a nightie on the
back of her door and I said thatis what it's like to be a woman
.
I was like from that point on,I have been a full believer and
in nightgowns, See.
(06:06):
so that's where I think we getcaught up, maybe but that is,
and I tell this story to her allthe time it makes her blush.
She's fantastic and I, like,worship the ground she walked on
still do, actually, and I knowher like personally, Like we are
friends and her hair alwayssmelled of a VEDA hair products
and I needed to have a VEDA hairproducts.
(06:28):
I even went to the same hairsalon she did.
Yeah, I was low key stalker.
But it was all out of admirationand I think you're probably
right that we get stuck on thepieces of it.
Yes, her haircut, or where shegoes to get her haircut, the
products that she uses.
I was sleeping in t-shirts andratty shorts, or whatever.
(06:52):
You're in college.
No one has a sophisticatednighttime routine in college
unless it's a romcom.
And then there's also perfume.
I think perfume is a huge piece, because another one of my
friends that I've met in morerecent years has a perfume for
every occasion, even to go tothe gym.
So obviously, I was like I willbe getting a perfume for the gym
(07:14):
and it's just that feels superfeminine to me To lean into
being extra womanly.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
The leaning into it I think is important Because, for
example, I used to think makeupwas feminine and if I just put
makeup on, I'm justautomatically feminine.
Oh, ok.
And that's not.
I have to lean into the makeupand understand why do I want to
put blush hair in?
So there's something that makeswanting to wear makeup and
perfume and have your hair smellnice.
(07:45):
Wanting to exude that isfeminine, but not just layering
it on.
So if I put on an IT, itdoesn't automatically make me
feminine, but is having thedesire to.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Like the intent behind the act.
Yes, ok, that's what I think.
Ok, valin, do you want to weighon this?
Sure, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
What you said in the beginning I think is most
appropriate.
And then I think femininity isa way of being.
It's not something that you do,it's something that you are
Right and I think if I washaving this conversation, the
FIMS Corp conversation with acoaching client, I would
encourage them to learn moreabout feminine Right, because
(08:29):
it's one of those things thatyou can't really put a checklist
on what femininity is.
There are some things that areobjectively feminine from a
man's perspective.
Like men think dresses arefeminine, most men think long
hair is feminine.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Most men think quiet, demure, cooperative type
personalities that are friendly.
We think that's feminine, andbut then you also have, like I
often talk about, a girl that Idated from New York City many
years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
A.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Valadin dating story.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, love how they always fit in.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And her brother would talk about the types of women
that he won, because I had anissue with women who use
profanity.
But he, like I, love a spicyblah blah, blah blah.
He went on with hisconversation, but he'd come from
a part of the country where thebaseline of femininity is a
little bit more aggressive thanit would if you were in the
(09:25):
South.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So the definition of femininity and how people define
it is very regionally specific.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
No, what I'm saying is let's keep the definition the
same, but let's just appreciatethe fact that it can be,
relative to certain things, andthat's the reason why we call
these things tools forcommunications not necessarily
rules, but from my perspective,if you were talking about
Valadin specifically, I couldgive you my list of things that
I think are feminine and itwould probably be easier for me
(09:53):
to communicate was not femininethan it is to communicate what
is?
feminine from my perspective.
Because let me talk about thisone thing only, because we
talked about it this morning onthe way over here and that's the
profanity right.
So I've coached a couple ofwomen who have the F word in
their regular vocabulary.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Not in their anger vocabulary no.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It's just in their regular vocabulary.
I would ask them, why is thatin their vocabulary?
Because I don't want to.
I'm not trying to reprimand youand say, hey, shake my finger,
you shouldn't do that, but I'mtrying to help them to get a
better outcome.
I personally think it's amasculine thing to do to have
that type of language, and letme caveat this by saying,
specifically for women who areage 40, something in old Right,
(10:37):
because the other part of thisconversation is for women who
are younger the wholegenerational sensitivity thing
plays an effect.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Oh, that's, an interesting point, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, because the reason why it even came up for
me is because when I'm on TikTokand YouTube and all these
places where I hear women likealmost all of them have an F
word coming out of their mouthand beautiful women, but they're
all young.
I won't say they're all young,beautiful women, they're not all
young.
But then I stopped and I thinkto myself about generational
sensitivity and to me that'svery offensive for a woman to
(11:10):
use that type of link.
So if I'm connecting with awoman and trying to make her
mine and she has that type oflanguage off the top, then I
already know which box to puther in and it's not the wife box
, right?
And the problem is men willnever say that, They'll never
tell you that.
But because I'm a coach, I'mgonna tell you that, right,
Because I want you to havebetter outcomes and just to
(11:30):
bring that home for you.
For people in their 20s and 30swho grew up, who were born with
everybody using the F word,they're desensitized to it, so
it's not even as disrespectfulin their world, it's not even
offensive at all in their world.
So for women that are 30 andyounger and you want to throw
the F bomb around.
It's probably not gonna affectyou the way because you're not
(11:51):
after men who are 40, 50 yearsold who are gonna find that
quite unattractive.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's interesting.
I didn't think about thegenerational difference between
the use of Cuss words orprofanity, which also
demographically you call itdifferent things when you're in
different parts of the world.
Cuss word is definitely verysouthern.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah.
Can a guy tell when a woman isjust wearing femininity versus
like really, ooh, excellentquestion.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Okay, now does he give her credit for trying, or
is it like now?
You're fake, you go in theother box.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Not the white box.
So that's a very good question.
Also, the answer is I believeand you heard me say this early
when we were on the way overhere we had a conversation with
my mother on the way over hereand we were talking about some
of these concepts, by the way,ooh, excellent, I know, but I
explained that marriage-mindedmen meet women and very soon
(12:49):
they put them in one box oranother the potential wife box
or the other box.
The other box can mean a wholebunch of different things, but
they make that decision prettyquick, right?
Because a lot of times menalready know what it is they're
looking for and they also knowwhat they don't want.
It's not always the case, butnonetheless, I even think we do
(13:10):
this subconsciously.
Sometimes we say, hey, this iswifey material right here.
So try to remember that.
Last question.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So the first question was can you tell when a woman
is just wearing it versus beingit and do?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
you get credit for it .
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So you don't get credit for it.
Here's the thing if a mandetects that you are wearing
femininity, he's not gonna likeyou any less.
It's tough for me to say men ingeneral, because I know so many
men that are not aware ofthemselves, so let me make sure
I'm talking about men that areaware of themselves.
Men that are aware ofthemselves.
Keep in mind we look long-termright.
(13:47):
When we find a woman, we playthings out.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
That's so nice to hear, because I feel like women
get all of the heat for playingthings so far in advance.
Maybe we just talk about itmore and there are way more
rom-coms about it.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
But yeah, we get a lot of heat for playing things
into the future and let me makea distinction between what you
guys do and what we do.
Okay, so I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Again, so that he remains there.
You go, okay, go.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Because I think men who are marriage-minded will
look at a woman and play outwhat marriage would look like to
this one.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But they're already marriage-minded and they're
playing things out because he'strying to assess what his
situation is gonna be like, ifhe's gonna be happy, if she's
gonna go sideways on him, Like awhole bunch of things.
It's different with every guy.
The distinction between thatand what women do they just kick
in and start buying weddingdresses in?
Their mind and things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Or they've already designed the wedding.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
The whole.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
It's all done.
We have kids.
Yeah, I have kids' names Noteson my phone.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
That's important.
A guy will analyze it and say,okay, this is good or this is
bad.
But I think, women, we startedtrying to paint the good picture
and move forward with it.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
I'm gonna even say not even the good picture.
They're gonna paint a picturewith a half, like you haven't
even figured out what your paintsupplies are yet.
Like you don't even knowanything about the guy.
And we've talked about thisseveral times about the 30-day
time clock.
Yeah yeah, and you don't evenknow what is his middle name.
Does he have siblings?
Like you don't have any of thatinformation, and I think in
(15:25):
that stage it's probably more ofa attractive thing.
Are you attracted to him enoughto think about the next phase,
because I think that's a piecetoo.
Are you attracted enough?
Can you see yourself kissinghim?
Those are all very goodquestions.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So I do see a lot of marriage-minded women.
Let me not say marriage-minded,it's more so that they're like,
okay, I need to be married now,sure, so they're not so much
deciding whether the guy haseverything they need, it's how
can I make him into what I need?
So I might identify somefeatures in him that are like,
yeah, I don't really like thathe does that, but he could be a
(16:02):
good husband and good father.
I can overlook that.
And they talk themselves intomaking this guy their husband.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, that's never a good idea.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, never a good idea, but I do notice that guys
are like, if there is a signthat she may not be it like he's
done.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That goes to what you've said in the past about
how men are the gatekeepers ofrelationships.
Women are the gatekeepers ofsex and, as you were answering
the question about like playingfemininity and like putting it
on, it felt like playing dressup.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And I think women can pick that out and other women
too.
They can see cause I'm tryingto think through.
I like of my friends and thepeople that I associate with.
Even if they don't have makeupon, they're still very feminine.
Even if they don't have a dresson, they're still very feminine
.
Even when they're like luggingaround a ton of heavy things,
(16:53):
they're still very feminine.
It's just who they are, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And let me talk about the profanity, and forgive me
for sticking to this, but thereason I want to talk about this
because you'll hear women saywhen I find the right person, I
will be feminine.
When I find the right guy.
I will respect him.
And if I'm coaching a guy, Isay to him, I say listen, you
have to find a woman who isalready feminine.
(17:16):
If that's important to you, youhave to find a woman who's
already respectful, right,because if she's disrespectful
over there, if you witness thiswith your eyes and she's
disrespectful and verballyviolent over there, and then she
comes over to you and she'snice and pretty and feminine,
trust me, my friend, in thecontext of marriage the extremes
(17:39):
of your emotions will come outand that verbal violence that
you witnessed over there willcome home to you right.
My wife has never, everdisplayed any signs of verbal
violence, and I knew that wasimportant to me because I'm a
sensitive person myself and I'malso a guy who demands respect.
But I respect other peopleright.
(18:02):
So I know that if you were thetype of woman that I know will
cross that line one day, that Ishould probably not even get
involved.
So don't marry a person likethat.
But the problem is if a womanputs it on, does she get credit
for it?
You can say yes or no.
Guys will give you credit forit if they wanna be around you.
If they put you in a box thatsays, hey, this is a nice
(18:25):
recreational woman, they'll putyou in that box.
And if you put on somefemininity, yeah, you get some
credit for that.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Okay, so does age play a part in this?
Let's go back to my teen storyof my friend that I thought was
the height of femininity.
She smelled great, she wasbeautiful, her hair bounced and
she wore 90s to sleep in Like.
At this point I'm still tryingto figure out who I am.
I would say that a good portionof high school I would have put
(18:53):
myself in the tomboy bucketbecause I was athletic, I played
a lot of sports and I didn'tknow how to do eyeliner.
I did not know how to wearmakeup until I went to college.
Yeah, I felt awkward.
If I tripped and fell, no onewould come and help me get up.
It was actually an ongoing jokethat my mom and I had that if I
sprained my ankle with someonewho just said, get up, you're
(19:14):
fine, whereas other girls, ifthey were to trip and fall, they
would rush to their aid.
And I still feel like that'strue for me.
If I were to fall, no one wouldhelp me get back up.
But in that time we were tryingto figure out who you are and
what is feminine for you.
Like, lily Patterns was nevermy version of feminine.
(19:35):
That's not gonna be like.
I like my dark, bold colors,but is there a grace period for
trying to?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
figure out who you are.
So that's where I was going,because if we're talking to a
population of women that want tobe feminine but they just don't
know yet, and we give them sometips and they're learning from
other women and they're tryingdifferent things to see if it
works, I would hope that a guywould say okay, I appreciate the
effort, We'll take you out ofthe recreation box and put you
(20:01):
in a white box.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yo, that's a good point because I would like to
make another distinction betweenthe woman who wears the
femininity because sheunderstands it's important to
men and basically from amanipulation standpoint.
There's a difference betweenthat woman and a woman who's
learning genuinely, is trying tomove towards femininity, like
(20:27):
she understands that and shewants to be that, she's decided
she wants to be that and she'smoving in that direction.
You get the distinction between.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, and I think you can tell very easily If we go
back to our previousconversation on the sexual
market value.
They're still trying to figureout who they are at 21.
I guess that's why it showsalso how the ages of sexual
market value for men and womenoverlap Somewhere.
Yeah, 28, 29, 30 in that range,because ideally you figured out
(20:59):
more about yourself on bothsides.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I don't know if that's the reason why they cross
over.
It's just that if you look atthe graph, men do that.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Oh, so simple, Mark.
Great love that, love that forus.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
These are just tools for communicating.
The whole femininityconversation is just to help
women understand what's in thelist things that they can do to
have better outcomes right,Because that's what we're after
that's where the clamp scorecame from is I want you to be
able to have something that willlet you look at yourself and,
(21:33):
based on the person you'retrying to sell yourself to, or
that demographic of peopleyou're trying to sell yourself
to, what's valuable to them.
You gotta understand that right, and these are the pieces that
you can look at yourself and youcan assess whether you have it
or whether you don't, and whereyou can work on some things and
where you can't, Because theidea at the end of the day is
just what can we do to helppeople have better outcomes with
(21:56):
regard to meeting theirrelationship goals?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
So this is where I think the gentleman of the world
can help.
When there's something that youlike, talk about it.
I was 30 plus when I learnedthat men wanted to be useful, or
they like to feel useful.
They want to be asked for help.
All my years growing up I feltthat it was bothersome to say,
hey, can you help me with thisthing?
So I thought I was being niceor caring or feminine by not
(22:26):
bothering you, giving you yourpeace, giving you your space.
So I try to figure things outon my own.
But I'm learning now that it'sdifferent.
Like you want me to ask you toopen the peanut butter jar.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Man.
That's a tough conversation tohave, but the reason I say it's
tough to have is because thesurface that is true Men want to
feel useful.
That's just deeply ingrainedinto men.
If there were 10 women sittingat this table and they all had
husbands and boyfriends and youasked them if they asked their
boyfriend to do something, ifhe'd be happy about it, a lot of
(23:00):
them would say no, he wouldn'tbe happy about it.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
I would have said no too.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I feel like there's a difference.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
The only point I'm making is that this is a bigger
conversation because, if I washaving a conversation with a
woman about how men like to feeluseful.
I would give her severalexamples and I would walk her up
to the understanding.
A lot of this is inpsychological research.
If you want to connect with aperson like I heard this reason
you want to connect with aperson that's gonna do something
for you, like even if it'ssomething like hold my jacket
(23:27):
while I run to the restroom.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, that does make me feel connected to someone.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm trying very hard.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I'm like I'm working through scenarios.
Yeah, I shouldn't do that moreoften.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I think it's an important conversation when we
tie it to the FEM score, becausewe're helping women understand
what they can focus on or whatthey can prioritize to become
more attractive to men.
So the gold digger conversationhow do I put this?
The traditional man, I wouldsay, appreciates when a woman
says, hey, can you pay for mynails or my hair?
(23:58):
There are some men who they geta kick out of being able to
help a woman feel like a woman.
Seriously, it's a subset of menthat look forward to taking
care of a woman.
That's why the whole sugar babyworld exists.
It's like they're men who justwant to spend on a woman and
take care of a woman.
But then I think, when you golower down on the totem pole,
(24:22):
the economic, scale.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
That's what you mean when you say totem pole.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I think that's where men start to talk about gold
diggers, because one it could betheir experience with women in
the past that she came in, tookhis money and left, or it's just
what they were taught.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I think you're right, Because men who have a
lot of money, they were wastedon women and they feel good.
That one blue jasmine interviewthat we listened to a long time
ago that was what's the word.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I wanted you Shocking .
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It so illustrates how , when you take it down to
economic scale, then a guy it'san insecurity thing, right that
plays a lot into it, becauseI've got to ask myself can I
keep up with what she demandsfrom me financially?
Right, for guys who don't haveto worry about money, they don't
ask themselves that question.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I have a question going back to something you said
a little while ago.
When you think about femininity, you think of demure, you think
of dresses, you think of makeupand long hair.
I do not consider myself to bedemure or meek at all.
I don't even think anyonereally described me as nice.
(25:30):
Probably they would describe meas kind.
Also, my mom says that she'sgreat, by the way.
Love her, but if you arelacking in that traditional
thought of femininity, do youhave to make it up in other
places?
Good question, likeprofessional women?
That's one of the things that,like I, was coming to my mind.
(25:51):
Sorry I'm gonna cut you off,but professional women have and
we've talked about this beforejust the pressures that women
feel around workplace cultureand the way that women are
viewed in work and femininity isacceptable, like an acceptable
level of femininity at work,yeah, so go sorry.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
What I hope people will get from this conversation
is not us trying to tell themthey need to go do something,
but to use this information tohelp them navigate their
relationship goals and what itis that they're trying to do to
get better outcomes.
So here's the example that I'llgive you.
You asked the question doesthat mean I need to work on it
(26:33):
in other places?
I would rather think about itthis way If I'm a woman and I'm
armed with this information toknow that these are the things
that men care about, these arethe things that make him more
attracted to me and I wanna bemore attractive to him, then I
will look at this list anddecide on my own where I can
improve myself.
(26:53):
I might not be able to doanything about my femininity.
Let's just say I can't doanything about it.
I just don't know how and Ican't.
But there are other things onthe list that maybe I can.
And again, I'm thinking aboutthis from the guy's perspective.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Like in the looks and appearance category, the
appearance Any of it Again.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Let me put the guys out there because I know how to
talk about them with regard tothis conversation right there.
But let's just say we'retalking about confidence in
looks, appearance, money andpersonality.
If I don't have a whole lot ofmoney, confidence will go a long
way with women, totally.
A long way with women, and ifyou don't have any confidence,
money will go further than youwould get.
(27:30):
But it will, it just will.
And looks and appearance is thesame thing.
So my point is if you don'thave a whole lot of confidence
and you have a hard time gettingthere, you can work on all of
these things, any and all ofthose things, because the goal
is to get the score up, not onespecific piece, not just
confidence, looks, appearance ormoney or personality.
(27:53):
It's to raise the whole clamp.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I feel like we could insert many scenes from Hitch
right now into this conversation.
Albert Brennan man dude.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I think about it in terms of hitting 100% With the
women.
It's challenging because it'ssix things.
So let's say the perfect scoreis 60.
When I go down the list, I'mlike, okay, looks are okay,
parents is okay, let's skip thefemininity one, let's skip the
cooperation one.
These other three are not thatgreat.
Now, if I want to get as closeas 60 as I can, I'm gonna say,
(28:28):
okay, which area can I work onto bring it up?
I just keep doing that until Imight land at 51, 55, somewhere
there.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
And keep in mind everybody's got different
buttons too right, because forwomen, confidence is more
important to some women but forother women money might be more
important than confidence.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I don't care if you don't have confidence.
Sure, sure, sure.
So that's where the tailoringto type of person that you're
interested in attracting.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, and I think for this conversation, our goal is
just to get across to the womenwhat's on the list, what we
consider those things to be.
We've covered 50 and Looks andappearance.
Looks and appearance you decide.
Will you get out there in theworld and decide what you're
gonna do to get better atfemininity?
(29:18):
There's some things I can helpyou with, but it's just based on
, objectively, what I know aboutmen.
But even that doesn't play outthe same way with every woman,
and that's the reason.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
let me just make a plug here for a second about
dating coach, because it wasabout that time we had gone a
couple minutes without a plugabout dating coaches?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, because that's the reason why I still recommend
that everybody who's seriousabout being in a successful
relationship have a dating coach.
Because a dating coach willhelp you navigate those things
in those conversations and thosequestions and help you
understand what you need to workon and in the context of what
you need and what your goals are, because you can't have this
(29:58):
conversation out in public.
That's the reason why medicaldoctors don't Medical diagnosis
in public.
Maybe that's a bad analogy.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Some women are who I am.
He needs to take me for who Iam.
And there are other women whowould say, okay, how can I be
better for him?
So if you want to just take thefem score, just to give
yourself a score so you knowwhere you are and know what you
can attract, that's fine.
But if you meet a guy and youcame from these six things like
he really appreciates these four, that's where I'm gonna focus
(30:30):
for this particular guy.
So you can do with theinformation whatever you want,
but in terms of justunderstanding what catches a
guy's eye is these six things.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Do you think that a woman's femininity is connected
to her self-confidence?
Do you think the morecomfortable a woman is with
herself, the more feminine sheis?
No, really.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Okay, flesh that out.
I see a lot of masculinity infemale confidence, mostly
because it comes off as listen,I got this, I know what I'm
doing, I don't need you.
That's not a soft approach.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat you can't be confident, but
it's not the first thing I seewhen I meet you.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And my thought on that when you first asked is
that there's no correlationbetween femininity and
confidence, and I didn't eventhink about what you just said,
Debbie, but it's the fourth wavefeminism movement that has
taught women that confidence is.
I don't know.
(31:39):
I don't even know how toexplain.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
That wouldn't be angry.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
That's the way it feels, that's the way it feels,
but I just don't see thecorrelation.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I think there's another word for it Femininity
and confidence.
When I picture a confidentwoman in my mind I see loud,
aggressive, sure.
But when I picture a confidentman, I see like just grace and
strutting through and I got you,and so, oh, very interesting,
it comes across a littledifferent.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Okay, if I change the question to be if a woman likes
herself, because that doesn'tnecessarily mean confident, it
means that she it's just secure,yeah, yeah, and she likes
herself and she's like in a goodplace.
Is she more feminine?
No, yeah cuz, here's the thingcuz some of it is being, but
also some of it is a.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
it's an active thing, it's not a passive Trait yeah,
I know a lot of women who likethemselves, but they aren't
feminine at all.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I'm just saying there's no court.
To me there's no correlationbetween the two.
Okay, I was gonna say to you Iknow some confident women who
are very feminine, yeah, and soI don't think there's a
correlation between Masculinityand and the woman's confidence,
like the boss babe.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
So the boss babe comes across as very strong,
rigid.
I don't see soft when I thinkboss babe, even though they do
makeup and hair and wear heelsand they may walk nice, it's
like once, once they have thatboss babe mentality.
Some of the feminine it kind ofdrips off.
But when I picture a woman justwalking through and she's being
(33:11):
graceful and her hair isbouncing and you get away for
the perfume and she passes bydefinitely a hair commercial
yeah yeah, there is an elementof confidence there, but it's
not.
I just think it's a differentword.
I like the word security right,like I know who I am, I know
what I'm going for in life, butI don't need to prove to an.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Do you think the media has greatly impacted your
view of a?
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Possibly, yeah, are my circle like.
I think I am kind of a obstacleof confident women and it just
comes across a lot as I don'tneed anything from anybody.
I Can do this on my own, I'm incharge.
It has a strength behind itthat comes across as masculine,
as opposed to just being securein.
(33:57):
I know who I am, I know what Iwant to enjoy life.
I like myself.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
That, to me, says so I'll still say no correlation,
and I will say this because Imentioned to you that I know
Very feminine women that arevery confident or very confident
women that that I think arefeminine and maybe we have
different definitions of whatconfidence means.
Right, that might be and likethat, that persona that you're
(34:23):
talking about, that's somethingthat's been sold Sold to women
in a way and you can call itconfidence, but it's much more
than that in that.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, I think there's so many layers to that.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah, maybe you can tell me which word to use in
this scenario.
We have a boss babe, right, shecomes off as confidence at work
, like she just knows what she'sdoing.
She does all these fabulouspresentations and she's really
confident.
But let's say now she, shefinds a guy that she's
interested in and she has toapproach him.
Right, she wants to positionherself so she can be noticed.
(34:58):
But now she's what do I say?
What do I do?
I don't want to come across asIs it that she's all of a sudden
on a confident or like what?
How do you define thatexperience?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
That's feels like she's just out of her element.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, that's you could be confident in working,
not be confident in thebasketball game.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, very specific example, I know right which is
why I say when it comes, when itcomes to the security, like I
can picture a secure, femininewoman, she she goes on stage and
she does this fabulouspresentation and she walks down.
She sees a guy that she likesand she knows.
Well, I just dropped my handkey and he comes over like there
.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Okay, that is just a magical hint.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Like there is no way on earth still got to adjust to
your element of Of.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I feel good about this piece.
I know what I'm doing herebecause I've practiced here.
Mm-hmm, that makes sense.
This part of my life is alittle less practiced, because
I've spent time practicing onthis professional side.
Yep you have to.
There's a teeter-totter thingwhich Again goes back to like
how this, these buckets andthese traits within the bucket
(36:02):
go toward.
We try to improve all thesepieces to increase this as a
well-rounded human.
Yeah, just, ultimately, wherewe want to go is being a
well-rounded human.
But whenever I think about thelike media portrayal of feminine
or like workplace and like thatDynamic that exists, I always
(36:22):
think of this scene in workinggirl 1988, one of my all-time
favorite movies and it has likeMegan Griffith in it and
Harrison Ford and one of histhree romantic movies ever.
And there's a scene where MeganGriffith or, yeah, she's going
to a work cocktail hour and shewears this beautiful dress.
(36:45):
It's like black off theshoulder tool, like tea length
and it's got like sparkles in itand beautiful.
And she is the only woman therein a dress every other woman is
wearing like a pantsuit, likean oversize, like not a cool
Oversize, but like a grossoversized 80s pantsuit.
Yeah, and she's going therebecause she has a meeting the
(37:08):
next day With this guy.
She doesn't know what he lookslike, but she's hoping that
he'll be there.
So, harrison Ford, the guycomes up to her at the bar where
she's like sitting there likesuper pretty, and you know, I
love that you decided to dresslike a woman, not how a woman
thinks a man would dress if hewere a woman right or if she
(37:28):
were a woman, and that's just.
That scene is so perfect and it,like the fashion, is just like
a hard contrast, like reallyaccentuate the fact that she is
so different than the woman thatshe's filling in.
For if anybody's ever seen thismovie, it's awesome and
fantastic.
I think everyone should watchit.
(37:48):
But that scene is one of myall-time favorite scenes Because
it's just.
It summarizes so much of whatwe talk about With how women
think a man is gonna approve ofa woman, when really it's not at
all the case.
And that's where we have thesescores and these categories
right?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Do you guys remember Elimate Clampett?
Is that from Beverly Hills?
I've heard of that.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I Think she was not gonna be our thing.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
I was just watching it recently and in the earlier
episodes and her dad, jeb, kepttrying to get her to put on a
dress.
But she is farm girl, go fishand go hunting and and like the
visual that I have now is theywere trying to get her to wear
femininity.
Yes, because she would have ona dress and she's fighting the
(38:40):
guys and she would hold a gunand Like that is just a clear
picture of what may notnecessarily be attractive to a
guy, but she was really prettyand she looked really nice in a
dress, so where would a guy fallwith somebody like that?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
so man this answer for every man's album, please,
and so this is a tough part,right, Because this is putting
dirty laundry out there in thestreet for the men.
But you've heard me say thisbefore.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Oh, I thought you're gonna give the lawyer answer of
it depends.
No, guys like pretty.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Right, definitely, and it doesn't matter.
Guys just like pretty, yougotta.
If you are an exceptionallybeautiful woman, you got to have
stinking breath or something.
I'm really disgusting to make aguy say, no, I don't want to be
bothered with her.
So the answer to your questionwhere the guys fall on that,
again, I'm Focusing onmarriage-minded men.
(39:33):
Right, and this is the dirtylaundry piece of it men who
absolutely want to be inrelationships, men who
absolutely want to get married,will still entertain a woman he
doesn't want to marry anddoesn't want to be in
relationship.
Okay, right, no, that's not allmen, but the let's just put it
out there as, generally speaking, a lot of men are that way and
(39:56):
the problem with that this isjust to answer your question
when does a guy fall on that?
If she's pretty and she offersopportunity and he can, he's got
what it takes to get with her.
She is open game, like guyswill experience.
There's many women as they canin their single days.
This is, generally speaking,right, this is generally
(40:17):
speaking.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I thought your answer would be something along the
lines of there's a hunting,farming guy out there who will
appreciate those not so womanlyfeatures.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, that's the truth also, because again, that
goes to the Relativeness that Ispoke to about before they're
guys who spend all their timeout in the woods and they don't
want a girl walking around in adress Because they want a girl
who's okay laying down in thedirt with him.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, right Well it's like farmers only.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, but, yeah, but he's got his own flavor of what
feminine?
Speaker 3 (40:51):
I think that's where we learn.
If you can decide the type ofwoman you want to be, yeah, just
make sure you're pairing upwith a guy that appreciates
those things about you the way Iwould have a conversation with
the woman is going back to ourBeginning discussions.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
After you figure out who you are and what you are,
and you figure out what kind ofperson you want, then you got to
go understand what that, whatit takes to get that person.
Yeah, like you got to go do thethings that that he finds
valuable, not what you findvaluable.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
But I would say my perspective has shifted in terms
of the confidence thing.
Now I'm on the same page withyou, valin, in terms of them not
being.
There's no correlation betweenthe two.
I can see a confident womanthat's also feminine and I can
see a confident woman that's notfeminine, and All variations of
that, because I'm tell you,confident, fit women oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Like that's a thing.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Okay, okay.
Guys don't really use the wordconfidence, though, when they're
talking about a woman thatthey're attracted to.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
No, we're way more simple than that.
I mean, our list is short.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
But you can appreciate it when you have it,
but it's not something thatyou're pursuing.
Yeah you're okay with not beingwith a confident woman, with
being with a woman that's notconfident?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Different guys.
Let me give you an example.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I think any woman can be confident when you start
talking about like the love of aright, of the right person can
Make you like those veryfairy-tell-ish right now, but
like the love of a good womanmakes a man, like the love of a
good man to a woman makes awoman, yes, and you can be not
(42:31):
confident in like socialsettings, but you can be
confident in your place in thatrelationship.
And I think that confidencecomes through with so many in so
many other ways, like whetherit's I Don't know like trying
new recipes and being confidentin the fact that, like you can
do this, because if it'shorrible You're just gonna order
(42:53):
pizza right.
Which is what my mom says allthe time.
If this is terrible, orderpizza but she's a great cook.
I feel any to to say that she'san excellent cook and and you
can be confident to try thingsthat you wouldn't have tried
before, because you know thatyour Like the love of your
partner is not based on yoursuccess in certain areas.
(43:15):
It is rooted in who you are,because they know who you are,
and it works both ways for menand women, and so I think that a
seemingly worldly Confidentwoman can be very confident in
ways that only her partner knows.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Mm-hmm, I like that and I was thinking about
Insecurity being the other sideof confidence, I think men and
women alike.
I think we're turned off byinsecure people totally, but not
necessarily from a man'sperspective, not necessarily
turned off by a woman who's notconfident, because that's not a
factor for men, for women, butit is for women for men exactly,
(43:56):
exactly, but and that's justwhat I think right now.
I have to put some more thoughtto that when it comes to my
relationship.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
If I need to call customer service, I am the most
confident woman.
Listen, yeah, I could almost bea Karen almost, but put me on
stage, not so much.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
That's funny.
I have a friend who is IsFantastic at customer service
calls.
Like, literally, I'm like willyou please make this call?
Hold on, I'm gonna get somepopcorn.
This is excellent, it is.
She is so good at it.
So good at it.
It's really important where,like, I will ask her to make my
calls.
Yeah, because I just don't wantto.
(44:37):
I can outsource that to someonewho's better.
I'll get this like empathything and like understanding for
other people in theirsituations.
She does not even a little bitlike it is so good yeah so good
See, I see the company and notthe individual.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, I'm nice to the individual.
It also depends on, like, howmuch patience I have been used
up for me, but that is anexcellent trait.
Hold on to that, I will.
Yeah they'll make you friends.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
So then, in between, I have a manufactured confidence
in social environments.
I'm very secure on a customerservice call.
I am absolutely Insecure onstage.
But if you take me to anetworking event I can fake it
and it will look really natural.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
But in on the inside I'm just like dying, yeah, but
that's the introversion, becauseI'm in the same way.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
I have to really talk my energy up when I'm going to
be amongst you have a hype song.
I.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Used to have a hype song.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I don't what is it.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
I will not tell you what it is.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
All right, I used to have a hype song, but I
understand that she and I bothvery much introverted, so I
understand that and plusprofessionally, I that just had
to be in front of people and hadto display confidence and
competence right.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
So confidence is One of those things.
You can fake it till you makeit worse.
Femininity is a not them.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah well, I agree with that state.
Yeah, but none of these hard.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
It is hard, it is very nuanced and it change.
I think it changes in thedifferent phases of your life.
Like I'm trying to thinkthrough mine and I've we've
talked a lot about femininitybecause I think it is just so
nuanced.
Yeah, it changes based on whereI am in my career, what I want,
how am I growing and changing?
Even like we talk aboutappearance being a part of of
(46:32):
femininity, like how has thatchanged since COVID?
Like pre COVID wardrobe versusin COVID wardrobe?
And now we're coming out andtrying to figure out how do we
dress again.
Yeah and like all of that playsinto it, where, like you, could
just have matching lounge setsand that be considered feminine.
What you wear also does play somuch into how you feel and your
(46:55):
feminine energy.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, so you started off by saying femininity is so
hard and you said oh, yeah, yeah, and I was thinking is it that
hard to be masculine?
Let me finish statement.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I was about to make you.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
So you started off by saying Femininity is so hard.
The first thing that crossed mymind is it is easy for some
women and it's Hard for others.
We could say that about mostthings probably.
There's some women who justcame out Feminine and they're
around feminine women all thetime, and I'm not saying one is
good, one's bad.
It's just that to say thatfemininity is hard, it's just
(47:31):
maybe it's trying to becomefeminine as hard.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Okay.
Is there a difference betweenbeing feminine and feeling
feminine?
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I do think there's a slight difference because, for
example, like when I was puttingon makeup, I would say, okay,
this is femininity, but you,looking at me, would probably
see that.
So I felt it, but it wasn'treally there.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
So Femininity is a big topic and is nuanced in so
many different ways and isrelative across the board, and
it's a Lots and lots ofdisclaimers around this one yeah
but the takeaway, again, thetakeaway that I want people to
have from this is understandwhat's on the list of things
that are important to men and ifthere's One, you can prove and
(48:13):
prove.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Well, what I was saying early, that I would
appreciate if the gentleman ofthe world would be more helpful
in that area, because a lot ofthings I don't think they
actually know.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I think that's some of the thing that we've talked
about Even coming up with thislist for us to talk about, like
how to talk about it, and Ithink women don't even know how
to really talk about what theyfind interesting or what they
like so certainly we can'texpect men to.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
So I think women talk about what they like more than
men do.
We talk about flowers andchocolate and dates and all
those things, but men are alittle generic.
I like peace.
Peace means a lot to a guy, butwhen a woman hears peace it's
like how do you bring that down?
Speaker 2 (48:55):
So that's a great example to say that men don't
know how to articulate what itis that they want.
Or actually I'd rather say itthis way Men and women, in a lot
of situations we don't know.
We don't know what we like andwhat we want.
And it's tough for me to saythis because I want to make sure
people get it.
(49:16):
If I say to a guy, men don'tcare about how much money a
woman makes, if I say that to aguy, depending on his economic
standpoint, he's going to have adifferent answer to that.
The guy who's got lots ofresources in the bank, he
absolutely has never thoughtabout how much money his lady
makes.
The guy who's strugglingfinancially, he absolutely is
(49:39):
going to say that he cares abouthow much money she makes.
But that's a circumstantialdecision, not an inherent
internal like and belief.
I don't know if I'm gettingacross what I'm trying to say,
but see, but he doesn't knowthat he's not thinking about the
fact that I know I don't reallycare about her money, but I do
care about her money because hedoesn't have the wherewithal to
(50:01):
say that to himself.
And I'm just using that one asan example.
But across the board I'm tryingto say, and both on the woman
side and on the men side, unlessyou go and you start studying
the psychology of men and women,you start studying the
biological of men and women,like most people just don't do
that.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
So I don't think it's that deep.
So we can make a generalstatement Women like flowers and
chocolate.
Right, I don't necessarily careabout flowers and chocolate,
but if I was teaching a man howto be attractive to women, I
would say buy her flowers andchocolate until she tells you
not to.
It's the same thing I wouldexpect from men.
(50:40):
Could say guys don't like tohave deep conversations when he
just gets home from work.
Guys don't like when youinterrupt his sports game.
Like be specific, so that awoman can visualize what it is
that a guy likes.
When you say be cooperative,it's like what do we do with
that?
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Oh, we're getting into the second tier, oh the
second bucket.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I guess we should get into the second bucket.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
But you get what I'm saying, though I get what you're
saying.
When a woman does something andyou say, I like that, tell the
world, don't just focus.
Like when guys get together andthey talk, they can say, oh man
, the wife been bugging me allweek.
She not, she did.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
I also sometimes dudes do that to bond.
That's not necessarily true.
I feel like no guy's going togo roll up at poker night and be
like can I just tell you howgreat my marriage is right now.
Like we are like on fire and weare in sync.
She's leaving me alone Now.
When I get home from work, I'mgetting to leave without being
worried about it.
(51:35):
How many minutes this is goingto take away from my leave bank
to be able to go places.
Dudes aren't going to do that,Just like women don't really do
that and talk about how greattheir marriages are, unless
something really awesomehappened, and it's usually.
Every story is about how yourhusband brings home a full head
of spinach instead of thespinach bag.
(51:57):
It's always aboutmiscommunication and I imagine
it works on both sides.
But that's what makes it funand you laugh and you know a
good girl's night.
You know that they love theirhusbands.
And they're just the things theysay about their husbands.
Don't color how you view them,because they're just people
trying to like it's a mishap,it's like a who out there knows
(52:19):
what men like, so men.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
The reason?
The answer is get a datingcoach.
Get a dating coach.
You are proving the point thatI'm trying to make, because men
don't.
Even if men know what they like, they're not going to tell
women.
Right, there's not because welisten to what I'm saying,
listen to what I'm saying Notthat I'm saying we don't want
(52:42):
women to know, we don't want totell them.
It's just that men don't.
Men are not thinking about thatstuff Like we.
Just they just don't.
And I'm talking about theaverage population of men out
there, for guys that are walkingaround trying to be red pill
guys and coaches and all of thatkind of stuff.
That's the stuff that theythink about all the time and
they're in, they're part of thediscussion.
(53:03):
We're not talking about thatdemographic.
We're talking about the generalman is walking down the street
out there.
He only thing he knows is I'msupposed to be a little woman
Like women.
Good, let me get one and theyreally don't know.
Like they aren't thinking about.
And women are pretty much thesame way.
Women are more, more interestedin relationships, so they have
(53:25):
a tendency.
There's a whole lot moreresources out there to get them
to the point that they want tobe Right, so they think more
about stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
So again, just because there's more resources
out there doesn't mean that it'sgood Agreed Absolutely.
A lot of it is garbage.
Yeah, I am a sucker for a Cosmoquiz.
Who will not take a Cosmo quizto figure out what their ideal
wedding colors are Like they're?
That's not helping me.
That's not improving my life.
That is not making me a betterperson, but yes, I am going to
(53:55):
click on it.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
So what I'm seeing is we can offer to the audience
hairs in general terms, what isattractive to men and hairs in
general terms was attractive towomen.
Now, when you want to divedeeper, that's when you have to
go one on one.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Well, there's a lot of things you can do on your own
.
If you feel like femininity isone of the places where you lack
, go Google femininity and startdoing some research, read a
book, listen to do somethingRight.
We're just trying to put thelist out there and try to help
shine some light on what it is.
Yeah, but that's what one onone coaching is for is to hone
(54:31):
in on your specific issue, honein on your goals and hone in on
a plan that help you to getbetter outcomes.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Okay, so we've talked about the first bucket that has
three traits Femininity, looksand appearance.
This next bucket of next threetraits would be temperament,
intelligence and cooperative orcooperation.
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