Send us a message! Include how to reach you if you want a response.
Florals? For spring? Groundbreaking.
On this week's episode of Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit, Tracie and Emily welcome Tanesha Myles to discuss the 2006 film The Devil Wears Prada. Like Anne Hathaway's Andy, Tanesha worked for a stylish, demanding, and overwhelming boss, who she describes as a "Black Miranda Priestly," referring to the character played by Meryl Streep. Both women bosses saw themselves in their employees and pushed them to their limits. But as Tanesha shares with the Guy sisters this week, both these women bosses also taught their protégées how to take up space in a world that expects women to make themselves small, perform niceness, and cater to men.
But Miranda's mental health definitely suffers from her way of living, as Andy realizes over the course of the film. She doesn't want to emulate her boss's approach to romance or friendship, even if she learns to take up space from her Prada-wearing "devil" of a boss. And as Emily (who has never seen the film!) points out, Miranda is sometimes kind even if she is never nice. That distinction is an important one.
By all means, move at a glacial pace. Whenever you put on your headphones and listen, you're in for a treat!
Tanesha Myles is the mind behind Her15Minutes. You can find her at instagram.com/herfifteenmins/
Tags
deep thoughts about stupid sh*t, women, romance, film, feminism, movies, anne hathaway, meryl streep, cultural commentary, pop culture, classic movies, comedy, film analysis, mental health, psychology, fashion, prada, storytelling
This episode was edited by Resonate Recordings.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus content, live zooms with Tracie & Emily, discounts on merch, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon or find us on ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/guygirls
We are the sister podcasters Tracie Guy-Decker and Emily Guy Birken, known to our extended family as the Guy Girls.
We're hella smart and completely unashamed of our overthinking prowess. We love 80s and 90s movies and tv, science fiction, comedy, and murder mysteries, good storytelling with lots of dramatic irony, analyzing film tropes with a side of feminism, and examining the pop culture of our Gen X childhood for gender dynamics, psychology, sociology, religious allegory, and whatever else we find.
We have super-serious day jobs. For the bona fides, visit our individual websites: tracieguydecker.com and emilyguybirken.com. For our work together, visit guygirlsmedia.com
We are on socials! Find us on Facebook at fb.com/dtasspodcast and on Insta at instagram.com/guygirlsmedia. You can also email us at guygirlsmedia at gmail dot com. We would love to hear from you!
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You're not just one thing.
When we give so much to onething, and then that's taken
away, it's lost, whatever thecase may be.
It's like, what do I do?
When you have someone like aMiranda Priestley, they've given
their all to this one thing.
(00:20):
And if you take it away from me,or if I lose it, I have nothing
else.
For me personally, I'm alwaysthinking about how to strike
that balance.
I give myself permission to takeup space in different places.
SPEAKER_04 (00:37):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just up culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
(00:58):
I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts About
Stupid Shit because pop cultureis still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, we'rewelcoming a special guest,
Tanisha Miles, to talk about thedevil wears Prada.
She's going to share her deepthoughts with me, with my sister
Emily Guy Birkin, and with you.
(01:20):
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (01:23):
Tanisha, welcome to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit.
Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
Listeners, Tanisha Miles is perhaps best known for
her 15 minutes, which is a briefshow on Instagram.
You can find her on Insta at her15 minutes.
Tanisha loves musicals.
And right now she tells us sheis addicted to jelly beans, at
least until they run out, whenshe's going to return to her
regular snack of gummy bears.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
Gummy bears, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (01:50):
Yes.
So we pick the bear.
SPEAKER_00 (01:53):
Yeah.
We choose the bear.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
This is jelly beans.
You summed me up.
You summed me up.
Yes.
I'm on a sugar high today.
SPEAKER_04 (02:02):
So today we're talking about The Devil Bears
Prada.
So I'll just briefly say aboutthis film.
This is actually one of myspouse's favorites, my
ex-spouse's favorites.
So I actually have seen it anumber of times because they
really love this movie.
So kind of what's in my head islike, well, Miranda, the boss.
The thing that I always think offirst is the belt, where there's
(02:26):
like two belts that are very,very close and like they're
agonizing over which one isright.
That's the scene that comes upfor me when I think about this
movie is like the sort of minordifferences that the average
person and the, I can't eventhink of her name, but the
protagonists like don't seeinitially.
But like how important.
(02:48):
Andy, thank you.
But how important they are tothe folks who are living in that
world.
That's that's what first comesup for me.
And what's in your head aboutDevil Wears Prada?
Don't hate me, but I haven'tseen it.
Oh, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
I've I've never seen this film.
So is there anything?
Is there anything in your head?
So this is one of those filmswhere because it's in the
zeitgeist, I've kind of pickedsome things up.
And I love Anne Hathaway.
So she's one of the people wholike diaries.
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
You love her.
SPEAKER_03 (03:19):
Yes.
Yes.
And like I would love for her toplay me in the movie of my life.
Not that I would like ever thinkthat she'd like I could get an
Anne Hathaway to play me in themovie of my life, but you know,
girl can dream.
So and I also, the style ofMeryl Streep as Miranda
(03:41):
Priestley in this is just likeiconic.
You know, I've seen so much ofthat.
So that's kind of what's in myhead is is like the way that
Meryl Streep conducts herselfbecause I've seen like the memes
and what's going on with that.
So it's more about the feelingsabout this film rather than
(04:05):
anything about the plot.
Um, I know it's in like theworld of fashion, and that I
think that's part of the reasonwhy I haven't seen it, because
that is just a little bitoutside, not just a little bit,
that is outside of mywheelhouse.
I get it.
Even though I I truly enjoyother things, like I I was very
(04:25):
much someone who loved Sex inthe City, which is very much
about fashion.
Um, and and I think in this asimilar sort of thing, um, it
just kind of passed me by, andthen I never got back to it.
So I'm not tabula rasa, like I'mI'm familiar with the film, I
just haven't seen it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Okay.
Okay, all right.
The sequel's coming out.
You can you can start backwards.
You can look at the sequel andwork your way backwards.
So that that hurts my heart todo it that way, though.
unknown (04:55):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
So, but Tanisha, like, why do you love this film?
You made it clear you love thisfilm.
Like, why is this film sospecial to you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
It's so special to me.
So, first of all, I'm not intofashion, but I am into fashion.
And so I loved the fashion inthe movie.
That's number one.
And I love anything that shows aglimpse into a society in which
(05:23):
I don't live in.
And so just to have like thatwindow into what happens in the
fashion industry, I watched theseries September, I think with
the editor of Vogue and all thatkind of stuff.
So I'm like very intrigued aboutpeople's stories.
I fell into living in this moviein a former career of mine.
(05:48):
I I was actually living in thismovie and I didn't even know it.
So I left the federal governmentand I went to go work for a
large nonprofit here inWashington, D.C.
And I was very hesitant toaccept the position.
So on the third interview, Ididn't anticipate meeting with
(06:13):
the CEO.
And the head of HR says to me,you know, she's available, she's
just leaving out of a meeting.
Can you stay?
And I'm like, okay, sure, I canstay.
And she walks in the room.
And she walks in the room.
She is a black Miranda walkingin the room.
I mean, she is polished to thenines.
(06:36):
I'm like, what is happeninghere?
And so I immediately started inmy head editing what I had on.
I'm like, what do you like?
What are you wearing?
And there is a scene in themovie where Miranda says to
Andy, like Andy, and she justkind of pauses and she kind of
looks her up and down toindicate, like, what are you
(06:57):
wearing?
Like, this is the fashionindustry.
What do you have on?
And so I immediately start goingover like my shoes, my, you
know, everything.
Like, what do you like the sidethat I had my part on and my
hair?
I'm like, what is like I I feltimmediately intimidated.
And I'm not very intimidated.
And she was just a verypolished, well-presented person.
(07:22):
And so I go back and I told mycoworker, you know, when you're
getting ready to leave a job,you only tell one coworker, I'm
looking, I'm leaving any day,I'm out of here.
So I'm telling her about it.
And she's like, She's a bitch.
I said, Well, how did you getthat?
She's like, I can tell already.
Are you sure you want to go?
And I said, Oh my gosh.
(07:45):
And I could just tell that shewas going to be extremely needy.
And that had not been myexperience.
And when I say needy, I meantvery needy.
And I start thinking about myage, where I was in my career.
I said, oh my gosh, this issomething that like entry level,
(08:07):
I don't know if I can do all ofthis, but the salary is$20,000
more.
So maybe I can't do it.
I don't know.
Like I'm going through all thesethings.
So I ended up accepting thisposition.
And I can just tell you that Ihave personally lived so many
scenes of that movie.
(08:28):
So many scenes.
The spilled coffee, where shesays, I need to have my coffee.
And this is not an entry-levelposition for me.
I was in a senior leadershiprole, but also supporting the
CEO.
And this is how she worked.
And every day, I have to behonest with you, for the first
(08:53):
month, I cried like at least twoto three times a week.
SPEAKER_04 (08:56):
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
Because I said I've made a mistake.
Because it was so stressful.
I wasn't a spring chicken.
I didn't imagine that at thislevel in my career, I'd be
slopping coffee and runningacross the street and all of
these crazy things.
I'm like, this is insane.
Like, what am I doing?
So I've lived this movie.
(09:18):
And yeah.
Did you see the movie after youhad this job?
I saw the movie before.
Okay.
Okay.
And I didn't even put two andtwo together until my former
coworker says to me, She's likethat lady in that movie.
What's the name of that movie?
And we both said at the sametime, the devil wears Prada.
SPEAKER_04 (09:36):
Huh.
Okay.
All right.
I definitely see what's at stakefor you then.
If it sort of like describesyour life.
Yes.
But especially since Emilyhasn't seen it, can you remind
us of like the basic plot or thecharacters of Devil Wears Prada?
Like, what are we working withhere?
SPEAKER_00 (09:52):
So, so Andy is a journalist who's just graduated
from college and she is lookingto break into journalism,
whether with the magazine, anewspaper, or something like
that.
And she ends up getting aninterview with one of the top
fashion magazines.
(10:12):
And she, I don't want to saythat she looks homey, but she
kind of looks a little homey.
She's really not into fashion atall.
She's kind of a nerd in a sense.
And she enters this world wherefashion drives everything.
And so she needs a job.
(10:33):
She goes into this situation.
And Miranda Priestley is theeditor-in-chief of this like
amazing fashion magazine.
And she is like an Apersonality.
She's not very warm, but yet sheis warm in her own way.
(10:54):
She's not really a B, but she isa B, if that makes sense.
She's she's she's not nice, butshe is nice.
And so it really is my storywith this one particular
organization that I was workingwith.
Because what ends up happeningis she sees something in Andy
(11:17):
that Andy didn't recognize inherself.
That you're more than what youthought you were.
Right.
And she kind of pulls Andy intoher sphere.
And so it disrupts her personallife.
And in some ways, it's for thebetter because her friends
(11:42):
actually, like her boyfriend, heactually took a career risk and
moved to a whole nother state,got a much better job just by
looking at her in thistransition.
Her experience really affectedeveryone around her.
But it was also a cautionarytale because Miranda Priestley
(12:04):
was on her third divorce.
And her career, you know, thesacrifices that she had made to
reach this level of successreally cost her a lot.
And at one point, Andy seesherself in Miranda because now
she's having problems with theboyfriend, her friend circle,
(12:26):
they're starting to pull back.
They don't understand this newAndy.
They're really not in support ofit.
And I can just tell you that allof those emotions, all of those
feelings, all of thosesituations, I found myself in.
So I was living in the devilwhere's Prada.
(12:46):
It was, I mean, in this oneorganization, I probably walked
through every scene of thatmovie with this organization.
You know, there was one point inthe movie where, so Miranda has
a first assistant, secondassistant, and the first
assistant was making fun of herabout the way, you know, the way
(13:08):
she was dressed and all of thethings.
She didn't understand any anyfashion lingo, none of that.
And so the friend of one of theone of the first assistant's
colleagues said, How did she getthis job?
Like, what is she doing here?
Do you see what she's wearing?
And I remember for months, thedirector of finance kept saying
(13:30):
to me, Did she meet you beforeyou were hired?
Are you sure she met you?
Like he kept asking me that.
He said, Did she meet you?
When did you meet her?
Did you meet her on the firstinterview, the second interview?
He's like, You're not gonnalast.
You're not gonna last.
You're not gonna last.
You're not gonna last.
And so it was this running jokein the office that I wasn't
(13:52):
gonna last.
And I have to tell you, in thismoment, she's one of my closest
friends.
Wow.
And I think, and I don't want tosee it, because I don't think
it's gonna be any good, but Ithink we're gonna see in the
sequel Miranda and Andy'srelationship develop to more of
(14:14):
a friendship.
I think that's where it's gonnago.
But I don't want to see it.
SPEAKER_04 (14:18):
So at the end of the film, Andy leaves, Ann Hathaway
leaves her position, and she'slike looking to get another job,
and she gets a um, she doesn'tknow this happens, but she finds
out that Miranda has called theeditor of this new newspaper or
magazine or whatever it is thatshe's applied to and said,
You're an idiot if you don'thire her.
(14:39):
Yes.
So even though like things werelike weird and strained and like
a bitch but not a bitch, and allthe things.
Yes, like even after Andy hasleft, now Miranda calls up her
colleague at this otherpublication and is like, you
need to hire this person.
So Miranda's advocating for herbehind the scenes.
There's nothing in it forMiranda at that point.
SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (15:00):
That like the only thing is maybe I could make an
argument that Miranda isvalidating her own hire, but
even that I don't think sobecause she fires people all the
time.
Yes.
So there really is nothing in itfor Miranda.
So, like, I think so that yousee that, Emily, like sort of
some of the underscores, becauseMiranda's very short with and
(15:21):
condescending to, like, just notwarm is an understatement for
the way this character, thesetwo characters interact.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (15:29):
And so the fact that despite all of that, like
tension and friction, we learnafter the fact that there was
respect.
Um, which so I'm telling you allof this, Emily, all of this, and
and reminding our listeners ofthis because I want to ask you,
Tanisha, like, so you lived thismovie, and I can see why then
that would make it reallyspecial to you.
(15:50):
And like, because it's real,right?
You see the like, you feel seenin a way, I expect, by seeing
this movie that reflectsexperiences that you had.
Absolutely.
So the question I have, like,there's being seen, and then
there's like, and what do I wantpeople to know about it?
Like, does it give thoselessons?
(16:10):
Like, and what are they?
Of the like, I've never been in,I wouldn't last.
Like the colleague who said thatto me would have been right.
Because, like, if I'm cryingmyself to sleep a couple times a
week, like, I'm out.
It's not for me.
So, like, I'm curious, like, sowhat are the lessons that
viewers of this movie who havenot lived it, forget about
(16:32):
fashion, just in that boss andemployee relationship that you
have lived, that now this personis a friend of yours.
Like, what are the things thatare baked into the movie that
you want to make sure peopleknow about this kind of a
relationship since you've livedit?
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
I think people should give themselves more
credit, more grace, and bewilling to put yourself in an
uncomfortable situation.
Because I have found personallyfor me, it has been in those
uncomfortable, unfamiliarspaces, is where my superpower
(17:11):
has shown up.
It's where I've grown, it'swhere I've stretched, it's where
the next evolution of Tanishawas formed.
And had I not really stuck withit, some of the things that I'm
doing today is a directcorrelation to me being in that
space and allowing myself to bechallenged and to be
(17:36):
uncomfortable.
Like I said, I'm not a veryeasily intimidated individual.
And really what happened wasthere's a moment in the movie
when Miranda says to Andy, Ihired you because I see myself
in you.
And so what she was doing,whether we can talk about the
(17:57):
method, right?
It was a little brutal.
But what she was doing was shewas helping her develop to a
station, a place in her careerthat she hadn't even considered.
And for me, it was the samething.
When she saw me, she sawherself.
(18:19):
And likewise, when she walkedinto that room, oh, and all that
glory on the interview, and it'slike all of the lights and the
like, oh, who is this person?
In that moment, very honestly,when I left that interview and I
got in the car and I called mybest friend, I was like, I want
to be this chick.
(18:41):
When I walk into a room, I went,oh, I want the heavens to open
up.
I want the seat because she wasso very well spoken, polished.
Her presentation was flawless.
She's the CEO of a largeorganization.
This is where I see myself.
(19:01):
So I think it it was the bothin.
And I would just say that don'timmediately discredit or
discount or run away fromsituations that are
uncomfortable.
That's what I would say.
SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
I think the thing you just said is really
interesting.
I want to just reflect, like,tease it out just a little
further.
And then I see that my sisterhas something she wants to
share.
So when I think about thismovie, like I'm often like, you
know, Andy turned into someoneshe didn't even recognize.
Like, I don't know if this was agood thing for her.
But what you're suggesting,which I really like, is that it
(19:34):
wasn't about fashion.
It was never about fashion.
It was about taking up space andallowing oneself to take up
space.
And Miranda Priestley does itgo, like goes too far because
even in her personal life, shetakes up so much space that she
pushes her husbands away, right?
Right.
So like she's not, it's it's wedon't want Andy to become
(19:55):
Miranda.
But the sense that Andy'srelationship with Miranda like
allows Andy to take up morespace, that feels like a really
important framing of thatrelationship that I I didn't
have before we hit record today.
Like I wasn't thinking of itthat that way.
I was thinking about likepushing her to know her limits
(20:17):
and like you know, pushing herto like think about more details
and like some of those things.
But the actual like permissionto fill a role.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (20:29):
I had not been thinking of it that way.
And I think that the way youjust described it, even in your
like, I want to be this chick,in that first moment, like
there's a degree of that that wesee eventually Andy gets to.
She doesn't want to push herhusbands away, husband away, but
she wants to like have presence.
(20:50):
I like that a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (20:52):
Yeah.
So the thing that struck me withthe fact that Miranda like
advocates for Andy at the end toget her the that other job.
And then with the fact that sheis unapologetic about firing
people, is we as women are solike pushed to be nice.
And it sounds like Miranda isnot nice, but she is kind.
(21:18):
And like, and that's a weirdthing to say, because like I
know just the because of thezeitgeist, I know like kind is
not the word you'd think of whenyou think of this character.
But that is a very kind thing todo when she she advocates for
Andy, because it is like no onewould judge her for not doing
it.
That is a kind thing to do toadvocate for her and say you're
you'd be an idiot to not hirethis person.
(21:40):
And so, and like that kind offits in with what you're talking
about, with taking up space,which is like I refuse to
perform niceness.
I refuse to fit into thissocietal idea of what women are
supposed to be and make myselfsmall and you know, do the
performative niceness, which isoften cruel.
Like performative niceness isoften like you say one thing and
(22:03):
then you cut someone behindtheir back.
Yeah.
And I have no idea if there'sanything like that within the
film.
SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
Yes.
There is a moment.
Yeah.
unknown (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:11):
With the the creative director, is that the
one you're thinking of when shecuts him out?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (22:15):
Yeah.
But taking up space, which isoften considered bitchy when a
woman does that.
And being direct, which is oftenconsidered bitchy.
Um, and like refusing to be toapologize, refusing to be
anything other than who you are.
Like it's revolutionary whilestill maintaining that inner
(22:38):
core of decency and kindness.
I think that's something that isworth aiming for as well.
Again, like the devil wearsPrada.
There's a reason why that's thetitle.
Yeah.
Like she sounds like a nightmareboss.
But I would rather my goal inlife is to be kind, not nice.
That's a tension there that Ithink is um, and it sounds like
(23:01):
Andy at the beginning was nice,but not necessarily kind.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Maybe.
I mean, is it really the devilwears Prada, though?
Because was she really a devil?
Right.
Thinking back on it, she reallywasn't a devil.
And she saw herself in Andy notjust with her ambition, but also
in some of the not so nicethings.
(23:28):
Because at one point, Andy isoffered an opportunity to go to
Paris, and the first assistantwas supposed to go, and
something happened.
And she's like, Oh no, I can'tdo that, Miranda.
And Miranda's like, yes, youcan.
She's like, no, I can't do that.
I'm not that person.
And she confronts it, it waslike a mirror moment because she
said, You've already done it.
(23:49):
So it's like you're giving, onone hand, you have all of these
thoughts about how I do what Ido.
But at the end of the day, youwould do the same thing, or you
have done the same thingalready, but because it has not
been as elevated as where I am,it's been kind of hidden.
(24:11):
And so you're really not as niceas you think you are, because it
starts to show with the friendgroup, and then it shows up at
work.
So I don't think Andy was reallyas nice as it appeared on the
surface, and Miranda wasn't asmean.
SPEAKER_04 (24:30):
Let's talk about that moment with the creative
director, though.
Remind me, like I just in myhead, there's some credit that
she takes for his work orsomething.
But remind me what it actually,because I don't know if that's
right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
So what was happening was there was some
merger of sorts, and Miranda hadrecommended her creative
director to take on a muchhigher role in this new
magazine.
But what she didn't realize wasin doing that, they were looking
to replace her.
(25:01):
And so when she found out, shekind of finagled things from
behind the scenes and she workedit so the person that was
supposed to take her jobactually took the creative
director's job.
And so it saved her job, but itkept him in his the position
(25:22):
that he was in.
And so Andy looks at him and hesays, She'll pay me back for
this.
And then Andy says, Will she?
You know, and he goes, I don'tknow.
SPEAKER_04 (25:36):
Yeah, I remember in my memory, he's like deeply
disappointed by the news.
Like he and Andy are togetherwhen when it comes out, and he
and he's he's surprised by it bythe announcement.
So that's a moment, um, likewhen you were like, I don't know
if there's a moment that's likenot kind.
Like that's the moment thatTanish and I both were, I think,
like, oh yeah, there's a there'sdefinitely a like because he's
(25:58):
been 18 years with her, yeah,like supporting her for a long
time.
Like they are a a partnership increating the magazine.
Like she's the editor in chiefand he's her creative director.
So they've been like creatingthis magazine together for all
of this time.
They are a partnership.
Yes, yeah, yes, and she justlike in that moment, he realizes
(26:21):
she's at the podium.
So she hasn't even told him inadvance, right?
Like she he hears it, he thinksone thing is happening and then
it gets announced that thisother thing is happening that is
not what he thought was gonnahappen and is not good for him.
And yeah, he hopes that she'llmake it right somehow, but he
(26:42):
has no way of knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (26:44):
But also, she's at this point in she's at this
point in her life where work isall she has.
Like she doesn't have anythingelse.
She's on her third divorce, shesacrificed everything for this,
so she can't lose the one thingbecause this is it.
This is the only thing that shecan control.
(27:06):
This is the only thing that shehas.
That's pretty sad.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (27:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
That was pretty sad.
SPEAKER_04 (27:12):
Yeah.
And that that feels like acautionary tale for Andy and for
and for us washing, right?
About to put it in the termsthat I said earlier, like when
taking up space in thisparticular role becomes your
entire identity.
Yeah.
Then it's a very high cost,right?
(27:33):
As Tanisha just said, like,Miranda has no personal
relationships that are actuallytrue friendships or that are
lasting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
I think it's hard to strike a balance, but it's
something that we have to bemindful of all the time.
You're not just one thing,you're not just one expression.
And I think when we try to boxourselves and we, you know, the
whole put all of your eggs inone basket scenario, when we
(28:04):
give so much to one thing, andthen that's taken away, it's
lost, whatever the case may be,it's like, what do I do?
And so I think when you havesomeone like a Miranda
Priestley, they've given theirall to this one thing.
And if you take it away from me,or if I lose it, I have nothing
(28:28):
else because I have not spent,I've not made any investments in
any other expressions of myselfor in any other relationships or
in any other spaces, right?
I've I've done none of that.
And so for me personally, I'malways thinking about how to
strike that balance.
Because on one hand, I want tobe really great over here, but
(28:50):
then at the same time, I realizeI give myself permission to be
expressive in various ways.
I give myself permission to, asyou say, take up space in
different places.
SPEAKER_04 (29:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
And I think it's challenging for some people
because we don't really developthe whole person.
SPEAKER_04 (29:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then we don't know who weare when we lose that singular
identity.
I'd like to ask you about umsort of your impression from
this film about gender a littlebit, because like the way we're
describing Miranda with herambition and the taking up space
and the very polis, like if shewere a dude, we'd be like, now
(29:37):
that guy's going places, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Like, well, that's what Andy says in the movie.
Does she say it?
I don't remember it.
Like, she does.
She says that in the movie.
SPEAKER_04 (29:44):
Even the sort of like the the devil association
with her, right?
Like, we wouldn't say that abouta man, right?
And Andy makes that plain in themovie.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
I think she's talking to the publisher from
the other magazine that shemeets in Paris.
SPEAKER_04 (30:02):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
And he's speaking very negatively about Miranda.
And he's like, admit it, admitit.
She's like this, she's likethat.
And she's like, no, she isn't.
And if she was a man, wewouldn't be saying this at all.
I think that there is a lot ofsexism in this movie.
And you are 100% correct.
(30:24):
If it were a man operating inthe same manner, it wouldn't be
a problem at all.
It's when women show upconfident, self-assured,
self-aware.
Not nice.
Yeah, not nice.
Tracy's like, she's not, she'snot nice to you.
Should just admit it.
She's not nice.
(30:45):
Um, I and I think I think that'sa whole nother conversation
because I think sometimes aswomen, we sacrifice the kindness
because we see success incertain spaces as being
masculine.
And masculine looks unkind.
When it comes to women, it comesoff unkind.
(31:07):
But I think you can be kind andstill be successful and
confident and self-assured andhighly skilled and highly
knowledgeable.
I think you could do all thosethings.
And, you know, it's just theworld that we live in, and we're
always trying to strike thatbalance.
Her presence was very feminine.
(31:29):
Her presence was very feminine.
But again, her dismissivenature, not being kind, being
very short, cutting Andy off,not really having any emotional
connection with her.
She didn't really connect withher.
It was all business, business,business.
I think for some women, they seethat as that's been their
(31:54):
example of success orleadership.
We often say that women are veryemotional and men are not.
I don't believe that.
I think men are just asemotional as women.
It just looks different.
Right.
And because it looks differentand ours is more so worn on our
sleeves, it's harder to detect.
But I don't think for one minutethat men aren't as emotional as
(32:16):
my ex-husband.
He cried all the time.
I don't want to go to counselingbecause he's gonna cry.
He's gonna cry.
And then I'm gonna sit here andlook like Tracy's head.
Tanisha's not nice.
Tanisha's not being nice.
(32:38):
Because he's crying and I'msitting here stoic.
SPEAKER_04 (32:40):
Because you don't want to do the emotional labor.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
I don't blame you.
I'm okay.
SPEAKER_03 (32:44):
One thing I am also thinking about is how we are
programmed to think thatkindness looks like one thing.
I'm thinking about the fact thatthat Miranda is happy to fire
people quickly.
And like that seems like anunkind thing, but if someone is
not a good fit, it is actuallykinder to let them go so that
(33:08):
they can find a better fit thanit is to string it along.
And now I'm saying that this isin a perfect world where we're
not in like the the capitalisthellscape that is the United
States and and where like ourhealth insurance depends on
where we work and that bullshit.
But putting someone on a um animprovement plan and all that
(33:31):
crap when you are in a job thatyou just are not a good fit for
is so much more humiliating andpainful than simply being let
go, even though that is painful.
It's a quick, sharp pain that isover quickly and is kinder, even
(33:52):
though you're out the door, likeputting up two uh middle
fingers, going, what a bitch,than you would be if Miranda
came to you as like, let's putyou on an improvement plan and
how can I help?
And doing the things that wewould consider to be normal,
kind behavior.
(34:12):
And so, like, that's somethingalso to be thinking about as
well, is like her shortness andher lack of patience, could also
be a kind of kindness.
Yeah.
Just removing the fact thatwe're in a capitalist elsecape.
Right.
Right.
(34:32):
Hopefully that means they getseverance.
SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Do you think Tanisha, like w if we think
about what you just said aboutMiranda being sort of one vision
of success that presents likemimicking some of the masculine,
I'm putting quotes around thatword, ways of leadership.
Is Andy the counterpoint tothat?
(34:58):
Like, do we see her as shedevelops as sort of a way to
balance that, the so-calledfeminine and masculine
leadership styles?
I'm putting aside any argumentwe might have with labeling them
that way, which I I do have, butsocietally they are viewed that
way.
SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
I think so because I see Andy as being the best
version of Miranda.
Interesting.
Without the trauma, without theexperiences.
She's looking at her from afresh perspective, like, wow,
this is who I started out as.
(35:38):
But then the trauma, the drama,the backstabbing, the divorces,
the life happens, and now thisis what I've become.
But I started out as Andy, verywhimsical, fresh faced, very
caring, very kind, ambitious,still concerned about hurting
(35:59):
her friends' feelings.
I think when she missed herboyfriend's birthday party, I
think it really hurt her.
I think she was really sad.
I think she was really torn bythat.
I don't think that was an easydecision for her to make.
But fast forward years later,looking at Miranda Priestley,
(36:20):
after all of those decisions,right, she's has developed a
callus in a sense.
And she's not as emotionallyattached.
She doesn't, she's not asaffected if she missed
something.
There's a moment in the moviewhere she says, I have to go to
this party, have the car pick meup, you know, drop me off at
(36:42):
6:30, and I want to be picked upat 645.
Like 50, I'm just gonna circlethe room.
Basically, I'm just gonna circlethe room and leave.
Like I have no intention onengaging with anyone on a really
human level.
I'm here for business.
You saw me, I'm out of here.
But Andy wasn't that way.
(37:03):
And I think that when she gaveher, when she called the the
magazine for her and and gaveher that reference, I think in a
way she was protecting who Andywas.
Like, you don't necessarily needto be over here.
I I see some qualities in youthat this industry, right?
(37:25):
This may be too much for you.
Um, and I think that she wantedto support her in her goals.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:32):
I think so.
I like that idea that I mean,Miranda says she sees herself an
Andy, and but so that idea thatshe's protecting her own younger
self, like in part from themisogyny and the sexism, right?
Like even having been therefirst and developed that
callous, right?
That then she's able to, in somesmall way, protect this woman
(37:56):
who's younger woman who's comingup from behind so that she
doesn't have to suffer quite thesame slings and arrows that's a
real that's that is a realmoment.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
I remember years ago having a conversation with my
father, and I was followingsomewhat in his footsteps.
And he said to me, You're gonnabe great.
You're gonna be so much betterthan I am.
Now, as a parent, you alwayswant your children to be better
(38:26):
than you.
But what he said to me, and II'll never forget it even till
this day, he said to me, Becauseyou're not like me.
You're better than me.
You still care.
I don't give a shit.
That's what my father said tome.
He's like, I don't give a shit.
He's like, but you actuallycare.
I don't care anymore.
I don't care enough to do itthis way or that way, but you
(38:48):
do.
You're different from me.
And so that's why that momentwith Andy resonates with me
because I had a personalconversation with my dad that
like I get it.
He's like, You like me, you cando this, this, this, and this.
He said, But you're gonna bebetter than me because you care.
And I don't care.
I'm like, I don't care.
All of the things that havehappened in this industry over
(39:10):
my life has brought me to aplace where I'm not as caring.
And I recognize it.
Because even when Andy tries toconsole her when she learns
about the third divorce, she'slike, Oh my gosh, Miranda, I'm
so sorry.
You know, because she's stillsoft.
Is there any like she wants tohug her, really?
Is there anything I can do foryou?
(39:31):
And Miranda just sits up, youcan do your job.
And she's like, and she shrinksback down.
Okay.
I think Andy thought that wasgonna be a moment between her
and Miranda.
They were gonna get to hug and,you know, eat some cookie dough
ice cream or something, butshe's like, no.
She's like, you can do your job.
(39:51):
Like, I don't even, I'm at a Idon't even give in to emotions
anymore.
Yeah.
unknown (39:58):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (39:59):
Okay, so we're getting close to the point where
I would sort of reflect back,but I want to make sure, is
there something that you werelike, I'm going on this podcast
to talk about Devil Wars Prada?
I need to make sure that I say,is there anything that you
wanted to make sure that youtalked about before we No, we
covered it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Okay.
I cussed twice.
I talked about my dad, which Irarely do.
And so, yeah, I pretty much saidit all.
unknown (40:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (40:20):
We we cuss a lot on this show.
So yeah, we do.
You're in good company.
Look.
So yeah, I think I've coveredit.
unknown (40:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (40:28):
All right.
Well, I will just see if I canreflect back.
Uh, you brought a differentperspective than I expected to
this movie because of your lifeexperience, right?
So the reason that this moviewas so important to you is
because you lived it, not in thefashion industry, but with that
sort of supervisor or superviseerelationship with someone who
(40:49):
was exacting and demanding andnot nice.
I'm putting that in parentheses.
It's not parentheses inquotation marks, because nice is
not always kind, as Emilypointed out.
So, sort of all of the ways inwhich we see, I mean, you said a
couple times, Tanisha, that youlived every scene in this movie.
(41:10):
So that brings a differentperspective to this kind of
analysis than we often have onthis show.
So that's really interesting.
And one of the things thatbecause of that, I think you
illuminated for me is the way inwhich this experience didn't
(41:33):
change Andy for the worse, theway some people watch this movie
and think that's the case.
And the way Andy's friends thinkthat's what happens.
SPEAKER_02 (41:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:42):
Rather, it sort of it didn't even like strengthen
her, like like work hardening,which is the way some people
will talk about it.
Rather, I think from from yourexperience and analysis, what
I'm taking away is that thisexperience that Andy has working
for Miranda actually teaches herthat she is allowed to take up
(42:05):
space, and that taking up spaceis necessary to success.
Now, stepping on people's toesis not necessary.
It often comes with taking upspace, but it doesn't have to.
Miranda does step on people'stoes.
And I think that the hope, basedon your sort of your analysis
(42:28):
and your lens on this, is thatAndy, as sort of an earlier
version of Miranda without theadditional like trauma and like
sludge and yuck on her, will beable to find that balance of
leadership that takes up spacebut doesn't step on toes.
Yes.
Yes.
We talked a bit too aboutMiranda as a cautionary tale,
(42:52):
not of like a woman being tooambitious.
That's not what we said.
Rather, as a cautionary tale ofsomeone who invests a hundred
percent of their energy into asingular identity, so much so
that if that identity, if thatposition in this case is
threatened, she does whatever ittakes to hold on to it,
(43:17):
including throwing one of heroldest friends and colleagues
under the bus.
And so we viewed that thecautionary tale that I think a
lot of kind of surface levelanalysis of this movie might
take would be about women inambition or fashion, maybe.
That's not what you're that'snot what you're suggesting.
And I think that's reallyimportant distinction that
(43:38):
you're making.
The cautionary tale of MirandaPriestley is not about ambition,
it's actually about likesingularity and single
mindedness that then robs aperson of relationships,
options, and identity at the endof the day.
Because who is Miranda Priestleyif she doesn't have her
magazine?
She doesn't know.
(43:59):
She doesn't know.
And that and that terrifies her.
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (44:02):
And I think that's actually also a really, really
interesting like distinction forthis film.
I don't maybe folks are sayingthat that's not the way I was
viewing it before we hit record45 minutes ago.
So thank you for that.
What did I forget from what wespoke about?
Oh, I remember Emily brought in,we talked about the difference
between being nice and beingkind.
And Miranda is almost nevernice, but she is sometimes kind.
(44:27):
And that's an importantdistinction and one that I think
I agree with Emily that actuallyis more important and more
useful to our world.
Kindness is much more useful tothe world than niceness.
Yes.
What else did I forget?
Anything?
Just the protecting that softunderbelly.
The way that Miranda wasprotecting Andy as the younger
(44:50):
version of her.
Yeah.
And that that her the callusthat she has formed, hopefully,
can like be a shield movingforward.
Oh, and then Tanisha brought inher dad when thinking about
that.
And the the you're just ascapable as I am, and you still
care.
So you're gonna do a better job.
SPEAKER_00 (45:06):
I'm thinking in this moment, that CEO who I had all
of those experiences with, herand I are friends now.
And this was eight to ten yearsago.
And she is constantly remindingme, remember what happened to
me.
Remember what happened to me.
Remember what happened to me.
(45:28):
And she said, I didn't thinkabout it.
I didn't think about it.
And so that's why I said, Ibelieve that Miranda was trying
to protect.
Don't make the same mistakesthat I made.
And really, it was a good placefor Andy to be in that moment
(45:49):
because it offered her a mirror.
And so she could, from thatexperience, make a decision.
Am I gonna go this way or am Igonna go this way?
And so it really gave her anopportunity that she wouldn't
have had outside of thatexperience.
SPEAKER_04 (46:05):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
While giving her a model of whatit looks like to take up space,
but like take what's good andand you know, leave the stuff
that is dangerous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I am thinking about this moviedifferently.
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
Tanisha Miles has been our guesttoday.
You can find Tanisha onInstagram at her 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (46:29):
It is where she actually meets with women and
talks about sort of the waysthat they stay grounded.
I had the privilege to be on her15 minutes a little while ago.
It was it was great fun.
So thank you again, Tanisha, formaking the time.
It was great to be with you.
It's been wonderful.
And next week, I believe it'sme, right?
I'm gonna bring you my deepthoughts about Mr.
(46:50):
Rogers' neighborhood.
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
So excited about that.
SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes.
Or leave a positive review soothers can find us.
And of course, share the showwith your people.
(47:22):
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompotech.com.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
You're not just one thing.
When we give so much to onething, and then that's taken
away, it's lost, whatever thecase may be.
It's like, what do I do?
When you have someone like aMiranda Priestley, they've given
their all to this one thing.
(00:20):
And if you take it away from me,or if I lose it, I have nothing
else.
For me personally, I'm alwaysthinking about how to strike
that balance.
I give myself permission to takeup space in different places.
SPEAKER_04 (00:37):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just up culture?
What others might deem stupidshit, you know matters.
You know it's worth talking andthinking about.
And so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
(00:58):
I'm Tracy Guy Decker, and you'relistening to Deep Thoughts About
Stupid Shit because pop cultureis still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
On today's episode, we'rewelcoming a special guest,
Tanisha Miles, to talk about thedevil wears Prada.
She's going to share her deepthoughts with me, with my sister
Emily Guy Birkin, and with you.
(01:20):
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (01:23):
Tanisha, welcome to Deep Thoughts About Stupid Shit.
Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
Listeners, Tanisha Miles is perhaps best known for
her 15 minutes, which is a briefshow on Instagram.
You can find her on Insta at her15 minutes.
Tanisha loves musicals.
And right now she tells us sheis addicted to jelly beans, at
least until they run out, whenshe's going to return to her
regular snack of gummy bears.
SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
Gummy bears, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (01:50):
Yes.
So we pick the bear.
SPEAKER_00 (01:53):
Yeah.
We choose the bear.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
This is jelly beans.
You summed me up.
You summed me up.
Yes.
I'm on a sugar high today.
SPEAKER_04 (02:02):
So today we're talking about The Devil Bears
Prada.
So I'll just briefly say aboutthis film.
This is actually one of myspouse's favorites, my
ex-spouse's favorites.
So I actually have seen it anumber of times because they
really love this movie.
So kind of what's in my head islike, well, Miranda, the boss.
The thing that I always think offirst is the belt, where there's
(02:26):
like two belts that are very,very close and like they're
agonizing over which one isright.
That's the scene that comes upfor me when I think about this
movie is like the sort of minordifferences that the average
person and the, I can't eventhink of her name, but the
protagonists like don't seeinitially.
But like how important.
(02:48):
Andy, thank you.
But how important they are tothe folks who are living in that
world.
That's that's what first comesup for me.
And what's in your head aboutDevil Wears Prada?
Don't hate me, but I haven'tseen it.
Oh, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
I've I've never seen this film.
So is there anything?
Is there anything in your head?
So this is one of those filmswhere because it's in the
zeitgeist, I've kind of pickedsome things up.
And I love Anne Hathaway.
So she's one of the people wholike diaries.
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
You love her.
SPEAKER_03 (03:19):
Yes.
Yes.
And like I would love for her toplay me in the movie of my life.
Not that I would like ever thinkthat she'd like I could get an
Anne Hathaway to play me in themovie of my life, but you know,
girl can dream.
So and I also, the style ofMeryl Streep as Miranda
(03:41):
Priestley in this is just likeiconic.
You know, I've seen so much ofthat.
So that's kind of what's in myhead is is like the way that
Meryl Streep conducts herselfbecause I've seen like the memes
and what's going on with that.
So it's more about the feelingsabout this film rather than
(04:05):
anything about the plot.
Um, I know it's in like theworld of fashion, and that I
think that's part of the reasonwhy I haven't seen it, because
that is just a little bitoutside, not just a little bit,
that is outside of mywheelhouse.
I get it.
Even though I I truly enjoyother things, like I I was very
(04:25):
much someone who loved Sex inthe City, which is very much
about fashion.
Um, and and I think in this asimilar sort of thing, um, it
just kind of passed me by, andthen I never got back to it.
So I'm not tabula rasa, like I'mI'm familiar with the film, I
just haven't seen it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Okay.
Okay, all right.
The sequel's coming out.
You can you can start backwards.
You can look at the sequel andwork your way backwards.
So that that hurts my heart todo it that way, though.
unknown (04:55):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
So, but Tanisha, like, why do you love this film?
You made it clear you love thisfilm.
Like, why is this film sospecial to you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
It's so special to me.
So, first of all, I'm not intofashion, but I am into fashion.
And so I loved the fashion inthe movie.
That's number one.
And I love anything that shows aglimpse into a society in which
(05:23):
I don't live in.
And so just to have like thatwindow into what happens in the
fashion industry, I watched theseries September, I think with
the editor of Vogue and all thatkind of stuff.
So I'm like very intrigued aboutpeople's stories.
I fell into living in this moviein a former career of mine.
(05:48):
I I was actually living in thismovie and I didn't even know it.
So I left the federal governmentand I went to go work for a
large nonprofit here inWashington, D.C.
And I was very hesitant toaccept the position.
So on the third interview, Ididn't anticipate meeting with
(06:13):
the CEO.
And the head of HR says to me,you know, she's available, she's
just leaving out of a meeting.
Can you stay?
And I'm like, okay, sure, I canstay.
And she walks in the room.
And she walks in the room.
She is a black Miranda walkingin the room.
I mean, she is polished to thenines.
(06:36):
I'm like, what is happeninghere?
And so I immediately started inmy head editing what I had on.
I'm like, what do you like?
What are you wearing?
And there is a scene in themovie where Miranda says to
Andy, like Andy, and she justkind of pauses and she kind of
looks her up and down toindicate, like, what are you
(06:57):
wearing?
Like, this is the fashionindustry.
What do you have on?
And so I immediately start goingover like my shoes, my, you
know, everything.
Like, what do you like the sidethat I had my part on and my
hair?
I'm like, what is like I I feltimmediately intimidated.
And I'm not very intimidated.
And she was just a verypolished, well-presented person.
(07:22):
And so I go back and I told mycoworker, you know, when you're
getting ready to leave a job,you only tell one coworker, I'm
looking, I'm leaving any day,I'm out of here.
So I'm telling her about it.
And she's like, She's a bitch.
I said, Well, how did you getthat?
She's like, I can tell already.
Are you sure you want to go?
And I said, Oh my gosh.
(07:45):
And I could just tell that shewas going to be extremely needy.
And that had not been myexperience.
And when I say needy, I meantvery needy.
And I start thinking about myage, where I was in my career.
I said, oh my gosh, this issomething that like entry level,
(08:07):
I don't know if I can do all ofthis, but the salary is$20,000
more.
So maybe I can't do it.
I don't know.
Like I'm going through all thesethings.
So I ended up accepting thisposition.
And I can just tell you that Ihave personally lived so many
scenes of that movie.
(08:28):
So many scenes.
The spilled coffee, where shesays, I need to have my coffee.
And this is not an entry-levelposition for me.
I was in a senior leadershiprole, but also supporting the
CEO.
And this is how she worked.
And every day, I have to behonest with you, for the first
(08:53):
month, I cried like at least twoto three times a week.
SPEAKER_04 (08:56):
Oh my God.
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
Because I said I've made a mistake.
Because it was so stressful.
I wasn't a spring chicken.
I didn't imagine that at thislevel in my career, I'd be
slopping coffee and runningacross the street and all of
these crazy things.
I'm like, this is insane.
Like, what am I doing?
So I've lived this movie.
(09:18):
And yeah.
Did you see the movie after youhad this job?
I saw the movie before.
Okay.
Okay.
And I didn't even put two andtwo together until my former
coworker says to me, She's likethat lady in that movie.
What's the name of that movie?
And we both said at the sametime, the devil wears Prada.
SPEAKER_04 (09:36):
Huh.
Okay.
All right.
I definitely see what's at stakefor you then.
If it sort of like describesyour life.
Yes.
But especially since Emilyhasn't seen it, can you remind
us of like the basic plot or thecharacters of Devil Wears Prada?
Like, what are we working withhere?
SPEAKER_00 (09:52):
So, so Andy is a journalist who's just graduated
from college and she is lookingto break into journalism,
whether with the magazine, anewspaper, or something like
that.
And she ends up getting aninterview with one of the top
fashion magazines.
(10:12):
And she, I don't want to saythat she looks homey, but she
kind of looks a little homey.
She's really not into fashion atall.
She's kind of a nerd in a sense.
And she enters this world wherefashion drives everything.
And so she needs a job.
(10:33):
She goes into this situation.
And Miranda Priestley is theeditor-in-chief of this like
amazing fashion magazine.
And she is like an Apersonality.
She's not very warm, but yet sheis warm in her own way.
(10:54):
She's not really a B, but she isa B, if that makes sense.
She's she's she's not nice, butshe is nice.
And so it really is my storywith this one particular
organization that I was workingwith.
Because what ends up happeningis she sees something in Andy
(11:17):
that Andy didn't recognize inherself.
That you're more than what youthought you were.
Right.
And she kind of pulls Andy intoher sphere.
And so it disrupts her personallife.
And in some ways, it's for thebetter because her friends
(11:42):
actually, like her boyfriend, heactually took a career risk and
moved to a whole nother state,got a much better job just by
looking at her in thistransition.
Her experience really affectedeveryone around her.
But it was also a cautionarytale because Miranda Priestley
(12:04):
was on her third divorce.
And her career, you know, thesacrifices that she had made to
reach this level of successreally cost her a lot.
And at one point, Andy seesherself in Miranda because now
she's having problems with theboyfriend, her friend circle,
(12:26):
they're starting to pull back.
They don't understand this newAndy.
They're really not in support ofit.
And I can just tell you that allof those emotions, all of those
feelings, all of thosesituations, I found myself in.
So I was living in the devilwhere's Prada.
(12:46):
It was, I mean, in this oneorganization, I probably walked
through every scene of thatmovie with this organization.
You know, there was one point inthe movie where, so Miranda has
a first assistant, secondassistant, and the first
assistant was making fun of herabout the way, you know, the way
(13:08):
she was dressed and all of thethings.
She didn't understand any anyfashion lingo, none of that.
And so the friend of one of theone of the first assistant's
colleagues said, How did she getthis job?
Like, what is she doing here?
Do you see what she's wearing?
And I remember for months, thedirector of finance kept saying
(13:30):
to me, Did she meet you beforeyou were hired?
Are you sure she met you?
Like he kept asking me that.
He said, Did she meet you?
When did you meet her?
Did you meet her on the firstinterview, the second interview?
He's like, You're not gonnalast.
You're not gonna last.
You're not gonna last.
You're not gonna last.
And so it was this running jokein the office that I wasn't
(13:52):
gonna last.
And I have to tell you, in thismoment, she's one of my closest
friends.
Wow.
And I think, and I don't want tosee it, because I don't think
it's gonna be any good, but Ithink we're gonna see in the
sequel Miranda and Andy'srelationship develop to more of
(14:14):
a friendship.
I think that's where it's gonnago.
But I don't want to see it.
SPEAKER_04 (14:18):
So at the end of the film, Andy leaves, Ann Hathaway
leaves her position, and she'slike looking to get another job,
and she gets a um, she doesn'tknow this happens, but she finds
out that Miranda has called theeditor of this new newspaper or
magazine or whatever it is thatshe's applied to and said,
You're an idiot if you don'thire her.
(14:39):
Yes.
So even though like things werelike weird and strained and like
a bitch but not a bitch, and allthe things.
Yes, like even after Andy hasleft, now Miranda calls up her
colleague at this otherpublication and is like, you
need to hire this person.
So Miranda's advocating for herbehind the scenes.
There's nothing in it forMiranda at that point.
SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (15:00):
That like the only thing is maybe I could make an
argument that Miranda isvalidating her own hire, but
even that I don't think sobecause she fires people all the
time.
Yes.
So there really is nothing in itfor Miranda.
So, like, I think so that yousee that, Emily, like sort of
some of the underscores, becauseMiranda's very short with and
(15:21):
condescending to, like, just notwarm is an understatement for
the way this character, thesetwo characters interact.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (15:29):
And so the fact that despite all of that, like
tension and friction, we learnafter the fact that there was
respect.
Um, which so I'm telling you allof this, Emily, all of this, and
and reminding our listeners ofthis because I want to ask you,
Tanisha, like, so you lived thismovie, and I can see why then
that would make it reallyspecial to you.
(15:50):
And like, because it's real,right?
You see the like, you feel seenin a way, I expect, by seeing
this movie that reflectsexperiences that you had.
Absolutely.
So the question I have, like,there's being seen, and then
there's like, and what do I wantpeople to know about it?
Like, does it give thoselessons?
(16:10):
Like, and what are they?
Of the like, I've never been in,I wouldn't last.
Like the colleague who said thatto me would have been right.
Because, like, if I'm cryingmyself to sleep a couple times a
week, like, I'm out.
It's not for me.
So, like, I'm curious, like, sowhat are the lessons that
viewers of this movie who havenot lived it, forget about
(16:32):
fashion, just in that boss andemployee relationship that you
have lived, that now this personis a friend of yours.
Like, what are the things thatare baked into the movie that
you want to make sure peopleknow about this kind of a
relationship since you've livedit?
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
I think people should give themselves more
credit, more grace, and bewilling to put yourself in an
uncomfortable situation.
Because I have found personallyfor me, it has been in those
uncomfortable, unfamiliarspaces, is where my superpower
(17:11):
has shown up.
It's where I've grown, it'swhere I've stretched, it's where
the next evolution of Tanishawas formed.
And had I not really stuck withit, some of the things that I'm
doing today is a directcorrelation to me being in that
space and allowing myself to bechallenged and to be
(17:36):
uncomfortable.
Like I said, I'm not a veryeasily intimidated individual.
And really what happened wasthere's a moment in the movie
when Miranda says to Andy, Ihired you because I see myself
in you.
And so what she was doing,whether we can talk about the
(17:57):
method, right?
It was a little brutal.
But what she was doing was shewas helping her develop to a
station, a place in her careerthat she hadn't even considered.
And for me, it was the samething.
When she saw me, she sawherself.
(18:19):
And likewise, when she walkedinto that room, oh, and all that
glory on the interview, and it'slike all of the lights and the
like, oh, who is this person?
In that moment, very honestly,when I left that interview and I
got in the car and I called mybest friend, I was like, I want
to be this chick.
(18:41):
When I walk into a room, I went,oh, I want the heavens to open
up.
I want the seat because she wasso very well spoken, polished.
Her presentation was flawless.
She's the CEO of a largeorganization.
This is where I see myself.
(19:01):
So I think it it was the bothin.
And I would just say that don'timmediately discredit or
discount or run away fromsituations that are
uncomfortable.
That's what I would say.
SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
I think the thing you just said is really
interesting.
I want to just reflect, like,tease it out just a little
further.
And then I see that my sisterhas something she wants to
share.
So when I think about thismovie, like I'm often like, you
know, Andy turned into someoneshe didn't even recognize.
Like, I don't know if this was agood thing for her.
But what you're suggesting,which I really like, is that it
(19:34):
wasn't about fashion.
It was never about fashion.
It was about taking up space andallowing oneself to take up
space.
And Miranda Priestley does itgo, like goes too far because
even in her personal life, shetakes up so much space that she
pushes her husbands away, right?
Right.
So like she's not, it's it's wedon't want Andy to become
(19:55):
Miranda.
But the sense that Andy'srelationship with Miranda like
allows Andy to take up morespace, that feels like a really
important framing of thatrelationship that I I didn't
have before we hit record today.
Like I wasn't thinking of itthat that way.
I was thinking about likepushing her to know her limits
(20:17):
and like you know, pushing herto like think about more details
and like some of those things.
But the actual like permissionto fill a role.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (20:29):
I had not been thinking of it that way.
And I think that the way youjust described it, even in your
like, I want to be this chick,in that first moment, like
there's a degree of that that wesee eventually Andy gets to.
She doesn't want to push herhusbands away, husband away, but
she wants to like have presence.
(20:50):
I like that a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (20:52):
Yeah.
So the thing that struck me withthe fact that Miranda like
advocates for Andy at the end toget her the that other job.
And then with the fact that sheis unapologetic about firing
people, is we as women are solike pushed to be nice.
And it sounds like Miranda isnot nice, but she is kind.
(21:18):
And like, and that's a weirdthing to say, because like I
know just the because of thezeitgeist, I know like kind is
not the word you'd think of whenyou think of this character.
But that is a very kind thing todo when she she advocates for
Andy, because it is like no onewould judge her for not doing
it.
That is a kind thing to do toadvocate for her and say you're
you'd be an idiot to not hirethis person.
(21:40):
And so, and like that kind offits in with what you're talking
about, with taking up space,which is like I refuse to
perform niceness.
I refuse to fit into thissocietal idea of what women are
supposed to be and make myselfsmall and you know, do the
performative niceness, which isoften cruel.
Like performative niceness isoften like you say one thing and
(22:03):
then you cut someone behindtheir back.
Yeah.
And I have no idea if there'sanything like that within the
film.
SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
Yes.
There is a moment.
Yeah.
unknown (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:11):
With the the creative director, is that the
one you're thinking of when shecuts him out?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (22:15):
Yeah.
But taking up space, which isoften considered bitchy when a
woman does that.
And being direct, which is oftenconsidered bitchy.
Um, and like refusing to be toapologize, refusing to be
anything other than who you are.
Like it's revolutionary whilestill maintaining that inner
(22:38):
core of decency and kindness.
I think that's something that isworth aiming for as well.
Again, like the devil wearsPrada.
There's a reason why that's thetitle.
Yeah.
Like she sounds like a nightmareboss.
But I would rather my goal inlife is to be kind, not nice.
That's a tension there that Ithink is um, and it sounds like
(23:01):
Andy at the beginning was nice,but not necessarily kind.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Maybe.
I mean, is it really the devilwears Prada, though?
Because was she really a devil?
Right.
Thinking back on it, she reallywasn't a devil.
And she saw herself in Andy notjust with her ambition, but also
in some of the not so nicethings.
(23:28):
Because at one point, Andy isoffered an opportunity to go to
Paris, and the first assistantwas supposed to go, and
something happened.
And she's like, Oh no, I can'tdo that, Miranda.
And Miranda's like, yes, youcan.
She's like, no, I can't do that.
I'm not that person.
And she confronts it, it waslike a mirror moment because she
said, You've already done it.
(23:49):
So it's like you're giving, onone hand, you have all of these
thoughts about how I do what Ido.
But at the end of the day, youwould do the same thing, or you
have done the same thingalready, but because it has not
been as elevated as where I am,it's been kind of hidden.
(24:11):
And so you're really not as niceas you think you are, because it
starts to show with the friendgroup, and then it shows up at
work.
So I don't think Andy was reallyas nice as it appeared on the
surface, and Miranda wasn't asmean.
SPEAKER_04 (24:30):
Let's talk about that moment with the creative
director, though.
Remind me, like I just in myhead, there's some credit that
she takes for his work orsomething.
But remind me what it actually,because I don't know if that's
right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
So what was happening was there was some
merger of sorts, and Miranda hadrecommended her creative
director to take on a muchhigher role in this new
magazine.
But what she didn't realize wasin doing that, they were looking
to replace her.
(25:01):
And so when she found out, shekind of finagled things from
behind the scenes and she workedit so the person that was
supposed to take her jobactually took the creative
director's job.
And so it saved her job, but itkept him in his the position
(25:22):
that he was in.
And so Andy looks at him and hesays, She'll pay me back for
this.
And then Andy says, Will she?
You know, and he goes, I don'tknow.
SPEAKER_04 (25:36):
Yeah, I remember in my memory, he's like deeply
disappointed by the news.
Like he and Andy are togetherwhen when it comes out, and he
and he's he's surprised by it bythe announcement.
So that's a moment, um, likewhen you were like, I don't know
if there's a moment that's likenot kind.
Like that's the moment thatTanish and I both were, I think,
like, oh yeah, there's a there'sdefinitely a like because he's
(25:58):
been 18 years with her, yeah,like supporting her for a long
time.
Like they are a a partnership increating the magazine.
Like she's the editor in chiefand he's her creative director.
So they've been like creatingthis magazine together for all
of this time.
They are a partnership.
Yes, yeah, yes, and she justlike in that moment, he realizes
(26:21):
she's at the podium.
So she hasn't even told him inadvance, right?
Like she he hears it, he thinksone thing is happening and then
it gets announced that thisother thing is happening that is
not what he thought was gonnahappen and is not good for him.
And yeah, he hopes that she'llmake it right somehow, but he
(26:42):
has no way of knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (26:44):
But also, she's at this point in she's at this
point in her life where work isall she has.
Like she doesn't have anythingelse.
She's on her third divorce, shesacrificed everything for this,
so she can't lose the one thingbecause this is it.
This is the only thing that shecan control.
(27:06):
This is the only thing that shehas.
That's pretty sad.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_04 (27:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
That was pretty sad.
SPEAKER_04 (27:12):
Yeah.
And that that feels like acautionary tale for Andy and for
and for us washing, right?
About to put it in the termsthat I said earlier, like when
taking up space in thisparticular role becomes your
entire identity.
Yeah.
Then it's a very high cost,right?
(27:33):
As Tanisha just said, like,Miranda has no personal
relationships that are actuallytrue friendships or that are
lasting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
I think it's hard to strike a balance, but it's
something that we have to bemindful of all the time.
You're not just one thing,you're not just one expression.
And I think when we try to boxourselves and we, you know, the
whole put all of your eggs inone basket scenario, when we
(28:04):
give so much to one thing, andthen that's taken away, it's
lost, whatever the case may be,it's like, what do I do?
And so I think when you havesomeone like a Miranda
Priestley, they've given theirall to this one thing.
And if you take it away from me,or if I lose it, I have nothing
(28:28):
else because I have not spent,I've not made any investments in
any other expressions of myselfor in any other relationships or
in any other spaces, right?
I've I've done none of that.
And so for me personally, I'malways thinking about how to
strike that balance.
Because on one hand, I want tobe really great over here, but
(28:50):
then at the same time, I realizeI give myself permission to be
expressive in various ways.
I give myself permission to, asyou say, take up space in
different places.
SPEAKER_04 (29:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:08):
And I think it's challenging for some people
because we don't really developthe whole person.
SPEAKER_04 (29:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then we don't know who weare when we lose that singular
identity.
I'd like to ask you about umsort of your impression from
this film about gender a littlebit, because like the way we're
describing Miranda with herambition and the taking up space
and the very polis, like if shewere a dude, we'd be like, now
(29:37):
that guy's going places, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:39):
Like, well, that's what Andy says in the movie.
Does she say it?
I don't remember it.
Like, she does.
She says that in the movie.
SPEAKER_04 (29:44):
Even the sort of like the the devil association
with her, right?
Like, we wouldn't say that abouta man, right?
And Andy makes that plain in themovie.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
I think she's talking to the publisher from
the other magazine that shemeets in Paris.
SPEAKER_04 (30:02):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
And he's speaking very negatively about Miranda.
And he's like, admit it, admitit.
She's like this, she's likethat.
And she's like, no, she isn't.
And if she was a man, wewouldn't be saying this at all.
I think that there is a lot ofsexism in this movie.
And you are 100% correct.
(30:24):
If it were a man operating inthe same manner, it wouldn't be
a problem at all.
It's when women show upconfident, self-assured,
self-aware.
Not nice.
Yeah, not nice.
Tracy's like, she's not, she'snot nice to you.
Should just admit it.
She's not nice.
(30:45):
Um, I and I think I think that'sa whole nother conversation
because I think sometimes aswomen, we sacrifice the kindness
because we see success incertain spaces as being
masculine.
And masculine looks unkind.
When it comes to women, it comesoff unkind.
(31:07):
But I think you can be kind andstill be successful and
confident and self-assured andhighly skilled and highly
knowledgeable.
I think you could do all thosethings.
And, you know, it's just theworld that we live in, and we're
always trying to strike thatbalance.
Her presence was very feminine.
(31:29):
Her presence was very feminine.
But again, her dismissivenature, not being kind, being
very short, cutting Andy off,not really having any emotional
connection with her.
She didn't really connect withher.
It was all business, business,business.
I think for some women, they seethat as that's been their
(31:54):
example of success orleadership.
We often say that women are veryemotional and men are not.
I don't believe that.
I think men are just asemotional as women.
It just looks different.
Right.
And because it looks differentand ours is more so worn on our
sleeves, it's harder to detect.
But I don't think for one minutethat men aren't as emotional as
(32:16):
my ex-husband.
He cried all the time.
I don't want to go to counselingbecause he's gonna cry.
He's gonna cry.
And then I'm gonna sit here andlook like Tracy's head.
Tanisha's not nice.
Tanisha's not being nice.
(32:38):
Because he's crying and I'msitting here stoic.
SPEAKER_04 (32:40):
Because you don't want to do the emotional labor.
SPEAKER_00 (32:42):
I don't blame you.
I'm okay.
SPEAKER_03 (32:44):
One thing I am also thinking about is how we are
programmed to think thatkindness looks like one thing.
I'm thinking about the fact thatthat Miranda is happy to fire
people quickly.
And like that seems like anunkind thing, but if someone is
not a good fit, it is actuallykinder to let them go so that
(33:08):
they can find a better fit thanit is to string it along.
And now I'm saying that this isin a perfect world where we're
not in like the the capitalisthellscape that is the United
States and and where like ourhealth insurance depends on
where we work and that bullshit.
But putting someone on a um animprovement plan and all that
(33:31):
crap when you are in a job thatyou just are not a good fit for
is so much more humiliating andpainful than simply being let
go, even though that is painful.
It's a quick, sharp pain that isover quickly and is kinder, even
(33:52):
though you're out the door, likeputting up two uh middle
fingers, going, what a bitch,than you would be if Miranda
came to you as like, let's putyou on an improvement plan and
how can I help?
And doing the things that wewould consider to be normal,
kind behavior.
(34:12):
And so, like, that's somethingalso to be thinking about as
well, is like her shortness andher lack of patience, could also
be a kind of kindness.
Yeah.
Just removing the fact thatwe're in a capitalist elsecape.
Right.
Right.
(34:32):
Hopefully that means they getseverance.
SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Do you think Tanisha, like w if we think
about what you just said aboutMiranda being sort of one vision
of success that presents likemimicking some of the masculine,
I'm putting quotes around thatword, ways of leadership.
Is Andy the counterpoint tothat?
(34:58):
Like, do we see her as shedevelops as sort of a way to
balance that, the so-calledfeminine and masculine
leadership styles?
I'm putting aside any argumentwe might have with labeling them
that way, which I I do have, butsocietally they are viewed that
way.
SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
I think so because I see Andy as being the best
version of Miranda.
Interesting.
Without the trauma, without theexperiences.
She's looking at her from afresh perspective, like, wow,
this is who I started out as.
(35:38):
But then the trauma, the drama,the backstabbing, the divorces,
the life happens, and now thisis what I've become.
But I started out as Andy, verywhimsical, fresh faced, very
caring, very kind, ambitious,still concerned about hurting
(35:59):
her friends' feelings.
I think when she missed herboyfriend's birthday party, I
think it really hurt her.
I think she was really sad.
I think she was really torn bythat.
I don't think that was an easydecision for her to make.
But fast forward years later,looking at Miranda Priestley,
(36:20):
after all of those decisions,right, she's has developed a
callus in a sense.
And she's not as emotionallyattached.
She doesn't, she's not asaffected if she missed
something.
There's a moment in the moviewhere she says, I have to go to
this party, have the car pick meup, you know, drop me off at
(36:42):
6:30, and I want to be picked upat 645.
Like 50, I'm just gonna circlethe room.
Basically, I'm just gonna circlethe room and leave.
Like I have no intention onengaging with anyone on a really
human level.
I'm here for business.
You saw me, I'm out of here.
But Andy wasn't that way.
(37:03):
And I think that when she gaveher, when she called the the
magazine for her and and gaveher that reference, I think in a
way she was protecting who Andywas.
Like, you don't necessarily needto be over here.
I I see some qualities in youthat this industry, right?
(37:25):
This may be too much for you.
Um, and I think that she wantedto support her in her goals.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (37:32):
I think so.
I like that idea that I mean,Miranda says she sees herself an
Andy, and but so that idea thatshe's protecting her own younger
self, like in part from themisogyny and the sexism, right?
Like even having been therefirst and developed that
callous, right?
That then she's able to, in somesmall way, protect this woman
(37:56):
who's younger woman who's comingup from behind so that she
doesn't have to suffer quite thesame slings and arrows that's a
real that's that is a realmoment.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
I remember years ago having a conversation with my
father, and I was followingsomewhat in his footsteps.
And he said to me, You're gonnabe great.
You're gonna be so much betterthan I am.
Now, as a parent, you alwayswant your children to be better
(38:26):
than you.
But what he said to me, and II'll never forget it even till
this day, he said to me, Becauseyou're not like me.
You're better than me.
You still care.
I don't give a shit.
That's what my father said tome.
He's like, I don't give a shit.
He's like, but you actuallycare.
I don't care anymore.
I don't care enough to do itthis way or that way, but you
(38:48):
do.
You're different from me.
And so that's why that momentwith Andy resonates with me
because I had a personalconversation with my dad that
like I get it.
He's like, You like me, you cando this, this, this, and this.
He said, But you're gonna bebetter than me because you care.
And I don't care.
I'm like, I don't care.
All of the things that havehappened in this industry over
(39:10):
my life has brought me to aplace where I'm not as caring.
And I recognize it.
Because even when Andy tries toconsole her when she learns
about the third divorce, she'slike, Oh my gosh, Miranda, I'm
so sorry.
You know, because she's stillsoft.
Is there any like she wants tohug her, really?
Is there anything I can do foryou?
(39:31):
And Miranda just sits up, youcan do your job.
And she's like, and she shrinksback down.
Okay.
I think Andy thought that wasgonna be a moment between her
and Miranda.
They were gonna get to hug and,you know, eat some cookie dough
ice cream or something, butshe's like, no.
She's like, you can do your job.
(39:51):
Like, I don't even, I'm at a Idon't even give in to emotions
anymore.
Yeah.
unknown (39:58):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (39:59):
Okay, so we're getting close to the point where
I would sort of reflect back,but I want to make sure, is
there something that you werelike, I'm going on this podcast
to talk about Devil Wars Prada?
I need to make sure that I say,is there anything that you
wanted to make sure that youtalked about before we No, we
covered it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Okay.
I cussed twice.
I talked about my dad, which Irarely do.
And so, yeah, I pretty much saidit all.
unknown (40:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (40:20):
We we cuss a lot on this show.
So yeah, we do.
You're in good company.
Look.
So yeah, I think I've coveredit.
unknown (40:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (40:28):
All right.
Well, I will just see if I canreflect back.
Uh, you brought a differentperspective than I expected to
this movie because of your lifeexperience, right?
So the reason that this moviewas so important to you is
because you lived it, not in thefashion industry, but with that
sort of supervisor or superviseerelationship with someone who
(40:49):
was exacting and demanding andnot nice.
I'm putting that in parentheses.
It's not parentheses inquotation marks, because nice is
not always kind, as Emilypointed out.
So, sort of all of the ways inwhich we see, I mean, you said a
couple times, Tanisha, that youlived every scene in this movie.
(41:10):
So that brings a differentperspective to this kind of
analysis than we often have onthis show.
So that's really interesting.
And one of the things thatbecause of that, I think you
illuminated for me is the way inwhich this experience didn't
(41:33):
change Andy for the worse, theway some people watch this movie
and think that's the case.
And the way Andy's friends thinkthat's what happens.
SPEAKER_02 (41:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:42):
Rather, it sort of it didn't even like strengthen
her, like like work hardening,which is the way some people
will talk about it.
Rather, I think from from yourexperience and analysis, what
I'm taking away is that thisexperience that Andy has working
for Miranda actually teaches herthat she is allowed to take up
(42:05):
space, and that taking up spaceis necessary to success.
Now, stepping on people's toesis not necessary.
It often comes with taking upspace, but it doesn't have to.
Miranda does step on people'stoes.
And I think that the hope, basedon your sort of your analysis
(42:28):
and your lens on this, is thatAndy, as sort of an earlier
version of Miranda without theadditional like trauma and like
sludge and yuck on her, will beable to find that balance of
leadership that takes up spacebut doesn't step on toes.
Yes.
Yes.
We talked a bit too aboutMiranda as a cautionary tale,
(42:52):
not of like a woman being tooambitious.
That's not what we said.
Rather, as a cautionary tale ofsomeone who invests a hundred
percent of their energy into asingular identity, so much so
that if that identity, if thatposition in this case is
threatened, she does whatever ittakes to hold on to it,
(43:17):
including throwing one of heroldest friends and colleagues
under the bus.
And so we viewed that thecautionary tale that I think a
lot of kind of surface levelanalysis of this movie might
take would be about women inambition or fashion, maybe.
That's not what you're that'snot what you're suggesting.
And I think that's reallyimportant distinction that
(43:38):
you're making.
The cautionary tale of MirandaPriestley is not about ambition,
it's actually about likesingularity and single
mindedness that then robs aperson of relationships,
options, and identity at the endof the day.
Because who is Miranda Priestleyif she doesn't have her
magazine?
She doesn't know.
(43:59):
She doesn't know.
And that and that terrifies her.
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (44:02):
And I think that's actually also a really, really
interesting like distinction forthis film.
I don't maybe folks are sayingthat that's not the way I was
viewing it before we hit record45 minutes ago.
So thank you for that.
What did I forget from what wespoke about?
Oh, I remember Emily brought in,we talked about the difference
between being nice and beingkind.
And Miranda is almost nevernice, but she is sometimes kind.
(44:27):
And that's an importantdistinction and one that I think
I agree with Emily that actuallyis more important and more
useful to our world.
Kindness is much more useful tothe world than niceness.
Yes.
What else did I forget?
Anything?
Just the protecting that softunderbelly.
The way that Miranda wasprotecting Andy as the younger
(44:50):
version of her.
Yeah.
And that that her the callusthat she has formed, hopefully,
can like be a shield movingforward.
Oh, and then Tanisha brought inher dad when thinking about
that.
And the the you're just ascapable as I am, and you still
care.
So you're gonna do a better job.
SPEAKER_00 (45:06):
I'm thinking in this moment, that CEO who I had all
of those experiences with, herand I are friends now.
And this was eight to ten yearsago.
And she is constantly remindingme, remember what happened to
me.
Remember what happened to me.
Remember what happened to me.
(45:28):
And she said, I didn't thinkabout it.
I didn't think about it.
And so that's why I said, Ibelieve that Miranda was trying
to protect.
Don't make the same mistakesthat I made.
And really, it was a good placefor Andy to be in that moment
(45:49):
because it offered her a mirror.
And so she could, from thatexperience, make a decision.
Am I gonna go this way or am Igonna go this way?
And so it really gave her anopportunity that she wouldn't
have had outside of thatexperience.
SPEAKER_04 (46:05):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
While giving her a model of whatit looks like to take up space,
but like take what's good andand you know, leave the stuff
that is dangerous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I am thinking about this moviedifferently.
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
Tanisha Miles has been our guesttoday.
You can find Tanisha onInstagram at her 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (46:29):
It is where she actually meets with women and
talks about sort of the waysthat they stay grounded.
I had the privilege to be on her15 minutes a little while ago.
It was it was great fun.
So thank you again, Tanisha, formaking the time.
It was great to be with you.
It's been wonderful.
And next week, I believe it'sme, right?
I'm gonna bring you my deepthoughts about Mr.
(46:50):
Rogers' neighborhood.
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
So excited about that.
SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
This show is a labor of love, but that doesn't make
it free to produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon.
There's a link in the shownotes.
Or leave a positive review soothers can find us.
And of course, share the showwith your people.
(47:22):
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin McLeod from
Incompotech.com.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Thank you to Resonate Recordingsfor editing today's episode.
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com