March 12, 2026 • 48 mins
We explore human-centered branding with Anne Gillespie, digging into why clarity comes before campaigns. We share tools to pause, delegate, and lead with courage so teams align and customers finally get what you do.
• brand therapy as the path to purpose and voice
• branding as daily behavior, not just visuals
• skipping the why and wasting marketing budgets
• collaboration unlocked by sharing fear
• quarterly focus and two-priority planning
• delegation to fight quiet depletion
• branding vs marketing demystified
• one action: rewrite your website’s first sentence
• aligning your digital footprint for consistency
• outcomes of rebranding: better fit clients and team relief
A simple starting point: the first sentence on your website
Anne’s “Share Your Fear” leadership tool and why it builds trust fast
Start here (Anne’s quick homework):
Go to your website and read the first sentence.
Does it clearly say who you are, what you do, and who you help?
If not, that’s your first fix.
Connect with Anne Gillaspie:
Website: https://fixandform.com/
Speaker site: https://theannegillaspie.com/
Podcast: https://www.onlyfounderspodcast.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annegillaspie/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annegillaspie
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fixandform
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Because lasting change isn’t about getting it right every time. It’s about learning to recognize the pattern, create a pause, and choose your next right move.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
This is the Delay the Binge Podcast, a space to
slow down, get curious, andexplore what's underneath the
habits that keep pulling at us.
I'm your host, Pam Dwyer.
Enjoy the show.
Hey friends, welcome back to theDelay the Binge Podcast.
I'm your host, Pam Dwyer, andtoday's episode is one I've
(00:22):
really been looking forward to.
I'm joined by Anne Gillespie,founder of Fix and Forum.
She works with founders andteams to clarify how their brand
shows up.
Not just visually, but in theway people experience it day to
day.
We're talking about brandalignment and what it really
(00:43):
looks like to show upintentionally in your business.
And welcome.
I'm so glad you're here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Hi, Pam.
Thank you for having me.
I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Oh my goodness.
Well, can you tell us, take amoment first, before we get all
into branding and everything,tell us a little bit about you
and what you're doing thesedays.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Yeah.
I live in Colorado.
I am a native to Denver.
Grew up here, born and raised.
I went to Colorado StateUniversity.
I love the following hobbies,and they have re-entered my life
in fierce ways in my 40s.
I love to dance.
I'm a dancer and I attendclasses at a studio when I can.
I love to snowboard and hike.
(01:23):
I love to play poker andblackjack.
And I love board games andreally fun, deep conversation
and laughter that happens aroundgames.
I've been with my husband for 17years, and we have three kids,
six, eight, and 10.
And one of the most favoritethings that we do as a family is
play games around the dinnertable.
It's just so bonding.
(01:43):
And currently I am working onbuilding my speaking business.
So I'm doing more facilitationof workshops and keynotes, as
well as guesting on podcasts.
Um, but I'm also reallypassionate about human-centric
work and what that means.
And we'll get into that withfixed informs can apply
(02:03):
human-centric attributes totheir business to really connect
more with relationships becausebusinesses are grown through
relationships.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
We need to hang out.
Absolutely.
I mean my family and I, we loveboard games too.
That's how we we spend timetogether, is with all these
board games.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
But I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
What's your favorite board game?
Oh my gosh.
It's um, oh gosh, there's somany.
I mean, we have different agestoo.
I have grandchildren that are 11and 6.
And so you can imagine thedifference of board games.
But their favorite, I guess, isand I can't remember the name of
it right now.
It's the where you have to guesswho the person is that gets the
(02:45):
card that's the culprit, youknow, like the bad guy.
And so you have to do all theseends with words, and I cannot
for the life of me remember thename of it, but yeah, they love
that.
Oh, chameleon.
It's called Chameleon.
And cool.
That's a new one.
Well, all the age, differentages can play it.
So I'm gonna look that up.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Mine is I love sequence, sequence for adults,
but then they have a sequencefor kids.
Yeah.
The animals, and I love thestrategy behind that game.
My son, he's eight, he's reallygood at that game.
It's scary.
I'm like, I don't want to playyou anymore.
I just feel like a loser.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
So it's maybe you could explain how he needs to
let you in every now and then.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, I want to start here withfix and form, a few fix and form
questions.
Like, um, so when people firstreach out to you, what do you
usually notice that they'rehoping to understand or clarify?
(03:43):
Like, what are they looking for?
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Yeah.
Usually they reach out saying,we need a new website, or we
need to grow, we need morecustomers.
We just we're not really gettingtraction with the right people.
Or people don't understand whatwe do.
And I don't like the websitebecause it doesn't explain what
we do.
Um, but I usually get peoplesaying, I am confused about how
(04:09):
to tell my story.
I have it all in my head, and Idon't really understand how to
put it on paper in a way that'sgoing to make people want to
work with us.
So those are usually some commontriggers that we hear.
And oftentimes the clarity thatcomes from my personal work with
(04:29):
the consulting side of it first,which we call brand therapy, is
often what happens as step onewith any fix informed client.
So brand therapy can be with orwithout the full branding from
transformation of logo, visuals,um, website, and all of that.
We actually can do some of thosebrand therapy sessions, which
are 90-minute talk therapysessions, but for business.
(04:52):
Um, and they're really talkingabout your brand.
Now, branding can be internaland external.
And so what I teach on is theinternal brand is so important.
The culture, the people, theprocesses, how you guys do the
work is very important just asmuch as how that team delivers
the external brand, which is theexperience that you're hoping to
(05:15):
get a five out of five starreview on.
unknown (05:18):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And that sounds so much about the way what I've
been looking for too, we know,with my own branding as of late.
But do you ever find thatsometimes the the brand of a new
client maybe feels off a littlebit or or that it needs to be
revamped?
And and what tends to beunderneath that, like their
(05:39):
feeling, maybe their why.
Have they lost sight of theirwhy?
I guess is what I'm asking.
Do you see that a lot?
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Yeah, Pam, I wouldn't even say lost sight of
the why.
I said they never even took thetime and quiet to find the why.
There's so many business ownersthat just go.
You have an idea, you have anopportunity, there's someone
that came to you with a productor service idea.
You guys were, you know, talkingover drinks.
This is often how businesses arestarted, and you're like, oh,
that's gonna be great.
(06:05):
Let's do that.
And then you start thisbusiness.
And often what happens is thebranding element of it is
skipped, the step one.
And so what actually makes ourwork really tick is marketing
agencies.
We're not a marketing agency,we're a branding firm and we
don't do marketing.
And so we collaborate best.
I have really great referralpartnerships with marketing
(06:27):
agencies because the marketingagency is where people think to
go when they need help and theyneed to grow and they don't feel
like they're getting the kind ofleads that they want.
But the problem is the marketingdollars won't be effective and
that marketing firm won't looksuccessful in the eyes of the
client without proper branding.
(06:48):
So we always try to network withmarketing agencies because we
make their best partner.
Because when you spy the websitethat doesn't make sense or
you're trying to do a leadgeneration program, but you go
back to the why, the concept,the story of the brand, the
foundation.
And that marketing agency says,I have no idea what this company
(07:09):
really does.
This is actually my most commonreferral, is from a marketing or
a digital um marketing orcreative agency.
And they say, And we have thisclient, and I couldn't tell you
what they do.
I've been on three discoverycalls with them.
My team has all developed copycopy for this campaign.
We've gone through their websiteand I can't tell you what they
(07:30):
do.
And they are terrible at tellingtheir own story, and I'm so
lost.
Can you help them?
And so they often bring me in,either just me as a
white-labeled consultant astheir brand strategist or that
marketing firm.
And maybe we just need to gothrough the brand therapy
sessions and finesse the contentand the story, the copy, and
find the why, because that stepis often skipped.
(07:54):
And then their marketing dollarswill convert because the leads
that you're communicating, thatlead flow will actually bring
them back to something thatmakes sense, which is a brand
story, which is explaining whoyou are, what you're selling,
and why it would help them.
Now, if that step is missed,there is no why.
So there's no connection.
So those marketing dollars arewasted.
unknown (08:15):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Well, a lot of branding advice I noticed
focuses on what we put out intothe world.
So what I'm curious about is howhow how brand shows up in
everyday moments, you know, thethings people actually
experience.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
Yeah, this is so important.
So every piece of contact andcommunication that a business
engages in incorporatesbranding, right?
If you think about it, a brandis going to hire from a cultural
perspective a person who's acultural fit, right?
So we hire for energy,alignment, values, vibe, and the
(08:53):
skill sets can come, right?
So then you think about thatperson and their behavior and
how they engage in work everyday, internally with colleagues
and coworkers and externallywith consumers and customers.
And all of that tone of voice,all of that energy, all of their
behavior choices are a part ofthe brand.
It's a reflection.
And then you're thinking aboutemails, social media posts,
(09:17):
phone calls, text messages,marketing campaigns, digital
banner ads, all of that haswords.
And the words all have a tone ofvoice to them.
And all of those words need tocome back to a succinct brand
strategy.
And if that brand voice hasnever been developed and found
because the why was neverestablished or it's changed and
(09:40):
you haven't actually checked into see how it's evolved, those
words can sound confusing.
So, for example, on LinkedIn,your bio could read something
that was outdated five years agoof what your business is doing,
but then someone goes to yourTikTok and it's all the new,
refreshed, purpose-driven biothat makes sense.
But now you're going, uh oh,there's an alignment, which one
(10:01):
is true?
And it looks like you're notpaying attention to detail
because you're not having acohesive voice for that brand
online.
So when the why is skipped, whenwe say at the top, the CEOs, the
executives, the leadership says,this is why we're in business.
Okay, well, then you canactually formulate the voice,
(10:24):
the persona, and all of thecontent and the storytelling
that actually expresses who youare.
And this is most important,which is why I tell everybody
hire someone outside to help youwith branding.
I've even done this, I'verebranded fix and form three
times.
And every time I have someoneoutside as a sounding board,
even though I'm doing my ownwork, because it's impossible to
(10:44):
get out of your own head byyourself.
So soundboarding is so importantfor any type of strategy work,
which is why hiring an outsidefacilitator.
I mean, heck, I'm even hired tocome in for two-hour meetings
with executives as an outsidemediator.
Law firm, I just did this.
They did a two-hour strategysession with all the partners.
And I was there to listen, tocapture, to ideate, and to
(11:07):
strategize as someone outside ofdrinking the Kool-Aid, which is
so helpful for leadershipbecause getting inside of our
head and doing brand speak, itreally doesn't resonate.
You have to think about it, A,from the consumer's perspective
and what they want and what theyneed and what they'll think of
to even find you.
SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
I can really relate to that so much because um just
personally, just in the pastyear, it seems like my brand has
evolved into different, and itjust is constantly evolving.
So, as the creative in thesituation, you know, my mind's
full of all these ideas andstrat what I think is strategy.
But um, what's happening is thebrand just keeps evolving into
(11:50):
something differently.
So, how do you help help peoplewith that, you know, when the
growth or change or just thepressure of rebranding affects
affects them mentally, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah.
This is especially true withsolopreneurs, where we change
our mind often, right?
Because we are experimenting andwe're testing.
And when we get new information,we might pivot the direction
that we're going.
Now it's really important totalk through this and have a
list, right?
I have a list actually that saysfuture ideas, maybe not now, and
then ideas I want to implementnow.
(12:27):
And for me, I feel like I'vedone the work long enough to
where I can separate the two.
But with other founders, withother solopreneurs, it's very
important what you talked about.
It's a mental health piecebecause it's input, it's
validating your value in thatinput as the business leader.
And so if you ignore thosethoughts or you lose them and
don't write them down, you areteaching yourself to distrust
(12:50):
the process of thinking.
And so when you allow yourselfthe space or the tools to trust
the process of thinking andideating, documenting them and
then sorting out where theybelong now or in the future, and
then you can share that withsomeone else as an outside
sounding board, that developsthat trust of ideating.
So you're going to furthervalidate your opinions.
So I do think this is verypowerful for mental health as a
(13:12):
business owner to write downyour thoughts, but you could
have thoughts that say, is thisdistraction and noise from my
goal for right now?
Or is this going to help addvalue to achieving this goal,
which is why it's very importantto goal set for your year.
We're now we're only inFebruary.
I don't know when this is goingto air, but I'll say it's the
beginning of the year.
(13:32):
It's a beautiful Q1.
You have all of this time, it'snot too late, to start setting
some goals for even thisquarter.
If the whole year feels huge,just looking right in front of
you and saying, I want to dothat.
And so in December, I'm guiltyof doing way too many things.
I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I own three companies.
I have a podcast.
(13:53):
It's a lot, right?
And I have a lot of differentprojects and ideas.
And I'm co-founding thisnetworking group that's starting
up here in Colorado because Ilove people and I love
connecting and people go, andyou do way too much.
I'm like, yes, I do.
So I don't go crazy.
I've really tried to practicethe skill set in the last six
months of two things.
(14:13):
Two things out of everything onmy plate, I can't give my energy
to everything.
What are two things that I wantright now?
And so in December, I said, Iwant to book one speaking
engagement in Q1.
So I really just dwindled itdown to simplicity.
And I want to sell one of mybrand therapy packages, those
(14:34):
strategy sessions, which is likethree, five.
It depends on the need of theoutcome.
Um, and that's it, right?
And so everything else that I'mworking on, everything else can
kind of flow in the backgroundand I'll do it, right?
It's it's not like I'm not doingany work in those other areas.
It's almost like how we pick atarget audience.
It's like the same thing.
(14:55):
I have a lot of clients thatsay, well, we're not just
working with 30 to 40 year oldswho are females.
I said, I know, but you have tohave a target who's gonna
resonate with what you're doingthe most.
And then that doesn't mean thatyou're not gonna capture
everybody else, but you can'tpay for and put energy behind
marketing to everyone, eventhough your product could help
(15:18):
everyone.
The primary first person who'sgonna benefit is that, right?
So we have targets just like wedo with goals.
So just because it's not in oneof those two goals, it doesn't
mean that I'm not putting someenergy to everything else and I
won't receive things everywhereelse.
It's just I am focused on thatday.
(15:41):
Will this conversation lead meto one of those two goals?
And if other noise and activityexists outside of that, great,
because those are all thingsI've created that are a part of
my world.
And I've had momentum from thepast that I've been networking
and talking about and pitchingall these other things.
So they're naturally going toflow.
But where I'm generating themost impact and energy and
(16:04):
dollars are those two goals forright now.
And I can change my mind.
The power to change your mind ishuge as an entrepreneur.
You have to be able to givegrace and say, oops, that was
wrong.
We're gonna do it this way.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
And that's okay.
Man, you are the epitome ofevery message we have on this
show.
We have a plus one theory, whichis doing your very best plus one
more in small incremental steps,right?
Just taking a little bit at atime, you know.
And we've all established withthe new year that we're not
(16:41):
looking at our our annual goals,we just look at quarterly goals.
And it seems I love that.
Yeah, because then if itchanges, it changes and it's
okay.
You know, we can there'ssomething about the year that
feels heavy, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Like the year, it feels really permanent.
And it it feels more likehandcuffs to that goal.
You're absolutely right.
When you say a year, you you'reless likely to feel the
flexibility to change your mind.
Whereas the quarter, we onlyhave a month and a half, two
months left in this quarter, wecan see how that feels, and then
(17:17):
we can change our mind.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Right.
Just take a brief moment toassess the first quarter and
then determine what you need todo going into the second
quarter.
You know, and that's structuretoo.
I'm terrible at structure.
That's my my weakest link, Ithink.
And so when hiring a team or uhhelp, that's what I have them do
(17:39):
for me.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
That makes sense.
I too in my creative flow.
Yes, I I'm not great withstructure.
I need to have more of those opsVA support people around me, the
people who love schedules andspreadsheets.
And I just um linked up withthese, this amazing group to do.
So I did actually, because Inarrowed down my goals, I
reached both of them already.
(18:01):
And I have three speakingengagements booked in Q1 because
I only set out to do one.
So I will tell you, it isproving me and it's it's
establishing trust with me tohonor the goal and just focus on
the one goal, and then more willcome.
But I'm working with thisamazing group to um put this
(18:21):
women's event together at theend of this month.
And one of us, okay, so there'sthree of us, and I loved it.
We just had a meeting to firm upeverything yesterday.
And she comes in, Pam, she has atwo-page printed agenda and
outline of what we're gonna.
And I'm like, well, we are sonot the same person, and I love
(18:45):
you for loving structure andoutlines and spreadsheets.
Oh my gosh.
I come to the meeting with myotter co-pilot recordings.
I slap that on the table, andI'm like, all right, let's just
all talk.
And then my creative juices andideating are flowing, and I form
this entire year of annualwomen's events every quarter by
theme, by location.
We talk about what and they'relike, this is great.
(19:06):
I'm like, but you're capturingit in all of the structure,
which keeps me sane and focused.
And then uh this other one overhere, and then he's really
coming in with like the bighigh-level view from the CEO
soapbox, and then I'm just thisideator speaker and I'm the
keynote at all of them, right?
And so I'm formulating all of itinto a workshop series.
(19:27):
And it and it's fulfilling allof our buckets because we're all
have you ever read WorkingGeniuses?
SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
No, but I've heard of it.
I think a couple of podcastsago, someone suggested that I
read it's six or nine orsomething.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
I this is where the details and me, we're not we're
not friends, but it's workinggenius.
And I listened to it and I lovedit because we all have our areas
of work where we are thrivingand we maybe excel and then we
can do.
There's like two or three, andall the rest are a dumpster
fire.
You should not touch those.
And I look at operations andstructure, and my one of my best
(20:03):
friends is in finance andaccounting, and she loves
spreadsheets.
And I said, God bless you,because I do not.
And so the fact that you love apivot table, I'm like, that is
why we're friends, because youare the yin to me, my young, my
yang.
I just don't, I don't get it.
And so I think that's how wehire the best teams too, as
(20:24):
entrepreneurs, which we usuallyfail at.
I'm terrible at asking for help.
I'm the the independent womanwho's healing.
I'm also a recovering peoplepleaser.
And so I'm trying to not doeverything, but hiring people
when you do, when you do findthat magic and you find someone
that does stuff with your ideas,and then they evolve it into
work.
(20:44):
You go, whoa, that's reallycool.
And I'm like, well, you'vethought of it.
I'm like, yeah, but I don't knowhow to execute it like that.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
So it's really powerful.
That's a lot of we're we areresearching a lot on what we
call quiet depletion.
And it it affects everyone, butuh mostly women that are doing
so much.
We all do, and we're we're highachievers, right?
And we check all the boxes off,but we we're forgetting to look
(21:12):
in, for we're forgetting to, welose our identity in the whole
process because we're just sobusy, you know, getting it all
done.
But the one number one thing isto delegate.
You know, we we find thatdelegating um different
strengths around you is what'sgoing to help you allow you to
have time to look in and tofocus on yourself and your own
(21:34):
growth.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Absolutely.
Well, I think an example of thatis in motherhood, you know, I
think that I was trying to breaka cycle of modeling the parents
doing everything, the mom doingeverything on hyperdrive.
And, you know, when we slowdown, when we stop and we lead
at home through motherhood andwe finally learn to delegate to
(21:56):
our children and give them tasksand chores and they want to
help.
And last night, my 10-year-oldwas like, Mama, I what else can
I do?
I want to help with dinner.
And I got irritated becausethat's my trigger, that's my
natural response from how I wasraised, of someone kind of
stepping in because I'm going todo it.
And I realized, no, no, the moreI learn how to delegate, they
want to help, they want to behelpful.
(22:16):
And it's a really powerful toolto raise children.
And so I said, okay, let's dothis.
And then let's do that.
Let's do that.
And then I didn't have to do it.
And the the thought has to shiftfrom autopilot to I'm going to
go do this to stop, pause, thinkabout how you would explain what
you need done and do thatinstead.
And then you've relievedyourself from everything that
(22:38):
follows.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
That is perfection.
That is that is perfection forour our whole show is the pause.
You know, we call it thepowerful pause or the purposeful
pause because you have to giveyour brain time to adjust from
the old pattern to the newpattern you're trying to build.
Absolutely.
It's amazing how it works.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
I know it really is.
And when you do it and you seethe joy and the validation of
your children, your coworkers,your team, your support staff,
when you enable them to helpwith the common mission.
This is what makes a greatleader is allowing people to
show up for you and asking forwhat you need.
(23:20):
And women, I find, have thehardest time of just asking for
what we need.
And I'm really fascinated bythis concept of, you know, who
are some men in your life?
Because women asking men is likeunheard of, but we need to in
work.
We need to be empowered at work.
But women asking women in ournetworks and women asking men in
(23:40):
our networks of one thing theycan do for us almost a task, a
favor, um, you know, for for thework for the project.
There's so many times I'velooked back and said, oh my
gosh, I had an amazingconversation around that.
And I didn't ask for anything.
So of course nothing happenedout of it.
And I leave and go, oh, well,they're not interested, or it's
(24:03):
not a good fit, and it must havebeen me, or what did I say, you
know, wrong that didn't sell it?
It wasn't the storytelling, itwas the ask.
There was no ask.
And women struggle, myselfincluded.
I'm really trying to recoverfrom that this year and say,
look, I'm gonna ask.
Like if there's a man or a womansitting in front of me, what I
am I'm conscious, I take thatpause before the discussion,
(24:26):
before the meeting, and I say,what do I want this person to do
or give me after ourconversation?
And if I can't have an answer tothat question, I shouldn't be
meeting with them because it's atime suck.
So what do I want from thisperson with this person?
Or maybe I want to give thisperson something.
What is that?
There needs to be a question,right?
(24:48):
And we have to be okay asking,even if it's a no, because maybe
the no is going to evolve usinto something even better.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
Asking is not failure.
I have we have to constantlyremind a lot of our community
that asking for help is notfailure at all.
You know, it's just more clarityand being intentional and also
giving other people a moment toshine in what their their lane
is, what the what their strengthis.
(25:15):
And I noticed that a lot aboutyou.
I was looking at your podcastand, you know, just doing a
little research on you so Icould ask you the questions you
would most enjoy.
And uh I noticed how curious youare.
You are very curious, which thathelps.
I notice it helps a lot for youto figure out what's going on
(25:37):
beneath the surface because younever think about businesses
needing brand therapy.
I love that y'all call it that.
But a lot of times, I'm sure yougo into a new client's staff
meeting or when you firstintroduce yourself, and there's
all this personal stuff in theway.
It's like a wall, I'm sure.
(25:58):
Like you can't get the work donethat you need to get done
because of all the issues,personal mental health issues in
there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
Pam, you're touching on something I'm really deeply
passionate about, and it's apart of my speaking this year.
It's talking about the wholeperson.
It's talking about work-lifebalance.
There's no work life.
It's work life.
It's one, it's one word.
We're a whole person.
So we're not going to show up atwork differently than we show up
at home.
The habits, the triggers, thebehaviors, the cycles that we
have in both places will exist.
(26:28):
And so if we're going to be anintegrated leader, both at work
and at home, especially if wehave kids, we have to
incorporate some of these skillsets that take us out of the
noise.
Like you're saying, there's somuch noise in front of us.
For example, you go into ameeting, let's say there's 20
members of your staff there andyou're the CEO.
Okay.
(26:49):
And you are afraid of deliveringthis meeting because you don't
have the solution.
A lot of CEOs think they have togo into a meeting with the
solution and present it to theirteam for everybody to start to
get to work.
And what happens is when aleader realizes they don't have
the answer, they're missing themost amazing human connection
(27:11):
piece of work, which iscollaboration.
And it's okay to say, andthey're they're afraid to look
like a failure.
They're afraid to show upunprepared, even though being
prepared is also being preparedfor collaboration.
And a great leader would comeinto that staff meeting and say,
Look, guys, I am they this is mywhole speaking platform.
(27:31):
It's called Share Your Fear.
You share your fear to evolve,get curious about it.
So you're afraid of looking likea failure in front of your
people.
You're afraid of looking stupid.
Okay, we all are, right?
And this is how fear, leadershipis often rooted in fear instead
of trust.
And so when we go into thatstaff meeting as a leader and an
integrated leader, and we'veshared our fear and we've said,
(27:52):
I fear that if I don't go intothis meeting with the answer, I
will look stupid and my peoplewon't respect me.
And then I'm going to get firedand have no money to provide for
my family.
It's like this string of fearsin our consciousness.
So then we say all of that, weshare it.
And then we say, and by goinginto this meeting without the
(28:13):
solution, I'm also not afailure, but I'm actually being
prepared to open the floor fordiscussion and collaboration,
which is maybe something I'venever done before in my
leadership style.
And my team might really enjoythat.
And I might actually gain somereally amazing ideas from that.
So you then you go in and youstart this the staff meeting and
say, we're going to do thingsdifferent today.
(28:33):
I'm not coming at you with asolution like a drill sergeant
and then saying everybody whateveryone's going to do.
I'm coming at you with what Iwould love for us to achieve,
but I don't know how to getthere.
And I would love your ideas andyour input.
And let's have a morediscussion-based staff meeting
instead of me just shoutingorders at you.
Think of the culture that justshifted by that leader sharing
(28:55):
their fear, dumbing down theelement of the fear by curiosity
and asking it questions and thensaying, that actually doesn't
exist at all.
There's no fear.
No one's going to think I'mstupid.
Actually, people might respectme more if I invite
collaboration on something thatI don't have the answer to
because I'm not supposed to haveall the answers all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
I love that so much.
If I look back at my past worklife and different corporations,
different types, all differenttypes of jobs, the best leaders
I've ever worked under are theones that were human to me.
You know, they seemed they werevulnerable, they wanted to
connect, and they gave me avoice.
And there's only there's veryfew, there's probably two.
(29:42):
But there's two that I rememberfondly that that you know
empowered their team to be um tobe involved in decisions and you
know, they were they f we feltrespected.
And so we performed better, youknow?
Absolutely.
Well, so do you notice, okay,let's go on the uh the external
(30:05):
part, like when you're helping abusiness um transform into this,
into all the things into a newmaybe rebranding, you know, uh
setting them up, getting them uhemotionally and mentally strong,
things change.
So do you notice that thecustomer, the the customers, how
do how do they feel when theynotice these changes?
(30:28):
I mean, is there an influx?
SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
That's interesting.
It's not actually the customersthat notice.
What I what I hear is once thebranding evolves, the team
changes.
So usually there are clientshave some level of support, have
some level of team deliveringit, even if it's a solopreneur,
um, they're going to have uh,even if it's themselves, right,
(30:52):
coming back and saying this,which they're their own team,
the team of one.
Um, it's more of the clarityinternally of what you're
actually selling that changes.
So your customer is changingfrom the branding evolving.
And the customer that comes inis going to make you feel more
aligned with clarity becauseyour branding and your message
(31:15):
is now talking to the rightpeople.
And so by rebranding, youactually, with the feedback that
you're getting or your team'sgetting, they go, Oh my gosh,
you know, we are just gettingthe right people.
Or I just had the most amazingdiscovery call and it's exactly
who we work with.
Or I finally feel like I canproudly guide someone to my
(31:37):
website at a networking eventand show off my business card
instead of shunning from it andsaying, please go to our website
and look at this page, likespecifically, because we
developed their websitestrategically to be a tool to
actually build a business.
Like how imagine that.
Like that's what websites aresupposed to do, but so often we
(31:58):
neglect them and we we forgetthat we need to be updating them
and evolving them to accuratelyshow the changes that are being
made, even if it's fast.
So imagine if you're talking tosomeone and you're a team member
for this brand.
And before you were, you werelike, oh, well, here's our
website, but it doesn't reallysay what we do.
Let me send you a one sheet onit.
And then you have just createdmore work for yourself or your
(32:20):
team member to go reallyestablish that one sheet of the
actual thing that you're doing,because the website isn't
working.
So I think it's just kind ofthat breath of fresh air of
clarity after we work withclients where they go, Oh my
gosh, An, I feel incredible.
It's like that's why we call itbrand therapy because we work
with the whole person.
So we're actually kind ofevolving, because there's so
(32:41):
much self-identity in people intheir work, them as a human.
So it's self-development.
So the brand work is actuallyhelping them clarify and get out
of their own head of who am I inthis work, right?
And what are we doing?
And why are we doing it?
And why should we be sellingthis?
And then who would be the mostbenefiting from what we're
(33:04):
selling?
And when you have that clarity,the people supporting you feel
so relieved.
And often those referralmarketing agencies I was talking
about, they come back and say,thank you.
Like they'll they'll come backand say, This website is
phenomenal, or oh my gosh, Ididn't even know they did that.
Really?
Oh, I didn't know they soldthat.
And it's the big aha of theuncovering or the revealing.
(33:26):
Um, and I think the share yourfear tool is like the
methodology to radical truthtelling, and we call it the
revealing.
Nothing's broken, it just hasn'tbeen revealed yet.
And so in both work and personallife, we we use this process to
reveal what's actually been uphere the whole time.
You go, oh, thank you.
(33:46):
I just finished with a client.
And they said, you goteverything that's been in our
heads for years, and twodifferent website revisions and
still didn't accurately tell ourstory.
And now we feel that we arebeing represented.
And you know what?
It goes back to this most basichuman need, Pam, which is to
feel seen and heard.
Yeah, human being, a baby, onceborn, they need to be seen and
(34:10):
heard.
That's it.
That's your fundamental need tosurvive and thrive in this life.
And so if we're helping brandsand the people behind the brands
feel seen and heard, that's themost basic human gift that you
can give anyone.
And so if you're making theirbrands do that and they actually
show up and feel seen and heard,ugh, it's the most validating
(34:31):
gift that you can give.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Man, it truly is.
And to feel seen and heard, Iknow this personally from
growing up the way I grew up inan abusive childhood, but you
know, we felt you feel invisiblewhen you grow up like that.
And then you carry that intoadulthood, you know, and that's
a real issue.
But I think that's why I'm soadamant about kindness, because
(34:54):
I think people take that forgranted because kindness is not
only good to give, makes itmakes you feel good to give it,
but it also feels good toreceive it because you're you're
seen, you feel worthy, you areheard, you know, and listening,
oh my gosh.
I've had to really work on thatlately because we're not taught
to listen as a skill, right?
(35:15):
We're taught to pay attention,but we're really not truly
listening.
And, you know, to do a podcast,you really do have to tune in
and listen to what the person'ssaying.
And so I've really been workingon that.
That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Absolutely.
I think listening and effectivelistening is probably one of the
best skill sets you can have tobe successful.
And it's about being exactlyyeah, and I think listening with
also a level of emotionalintelligence where you've
evolved and you've done theself-development, you've been
emotionally regulated.
(35:52):
I too grew up in an abusivehome.
And I think that that Icelebrate it now because I'm
healed, I've forgiven, and Irecovered.
And so I'm not coming at it froma broken heart, I'm coming at it
from a whole heart saying, thankyou, Lord, for giving me that
experience in that home, becauseit made me who I am now, which I
am hyper-aware and hyper-tunedin to empathy, to listening, and
(36:14):
to fulfilling that basic humanneed of feeling seen and heard
and helping others heal with it,because the world needs healing.
And from one tragic story to theother comes a rebirth and a
beautiful transformation.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
Well, and we've covered this a little bit, but
I'm just going to re-ask itagain because it's a question a
lot of my listeners want it.
I always tell them who I'll bespeaking, you know, visiting
with, and ask them if they haveany questions.
But this question uh came out alot.
So when someone is thinkingabout investing in brand work,
what questions do you think arehelpful for them to ask
(36:52):
themselves first?
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
Yeah.
So first is you want to see theprocess of branding granularly,
like in a visual way laid outfor you.
So, for example, our timeline isthree to four months, right?
First comes the brand therapysessions.
How long does that take tounderstand the work involved?
Then we transfer into the logoredesign and the visual brand
(37:14):
with icons, fonts, colors.
Then we go into writing thewebsite copy, and then we go
into creating that beautifulbrand video work because
human-centered, we believe everyevery human brand should have
video because that's very um themost human form of content you
can have.
Um, and then we go intodesigning the actual website,
and that's another month.
(37:35):
And then we should be on goal todeliver a uh website with a
sound SEO technically um auditedwebsite, which all of our fix
and form websites have thatinitial SEO foundation to them.
Um, and what I would say is withthat process, branding is like a
mystical unicorn.
(37:55):
I've always said this.
A lot of times we say branding,but you think it's a logo or you
think it's social media or youthink it's marketing.
And I have to say, more timesthan not in my career that I'm
not a marketer.
They say, oh, well, you domarketing.
No, no, I used to do a marketingdegree.
I own a branding firm and we dobranding.
And how is branding different?
So you have to constantly askthese questions if you're
(38:17):
looking to invest in branding,clarify how that service
provider view branding as well?
And is it the branding thatyou're thinking of?
Because branding needs to bedefined at every moment.
So if you are looking forbranding, meaning I need a new
logo, well, then maybe you justneed a logo designer and that's
it.
You need to refresh your logo.
(38:38):
If you think of branding as Ineed social media work, well,
then you need to sayspecifically, not branding, but
I am looking to enhance my brandpresence on social media.
So that's a social mediamanager, which is a function of
marketing.
And so you have to reallyunderstand what it is that
you're asking for, but you alsohave to ask that company to walk
(39:02):
you through the literal projecttimeline of the work that they
deliver and when in the processthey deliver it.
And the most important questionto ask if you're looking for
brand work is what is expectedof you and your time in their
process?
Because my clients often getfatigued.
Branding work is heavy, it'sinundating, it's hard, it's
(39:25):
therapy for a reason because wecome at your brain and you're
like, oh my gosh, thesequestions and finding your wife
and these deep, you know, I haveI have clients share drug
addictions and grandma problemsand being an orphan and all
these things come out in brandtherapy has nothing to do with
business, but it does becausebusiness is personal.
And when you are a human-centricbusiness, you are the people
(39:45):
that are going to come out inthat business.
And so your stories matter.
And also, that is greatbackground for me to tell your
story of elements that mayimpact the way you do business
and why.
So it helps establish the whybecause you were an orphan and
your grandma raised you on drugsor whatever the situation was,
right?
And so oftentimes people say,Well, you probably don't need to
(40:08):
know this, but but they weremoved to tell me that story for
a reason because I needed tolisten.
So with brand work, it canbecome long.
You can get fatigued, you can beon month six and just feel so
heavy with it.
And then you don't want to wasteall of that work because
expectations weren't clear inthe beginning.
(40:29):
So if you are a client lookingfor brand work, you ask, what
time commitment is expected fromme and how much homework or work
outside of our meetings and ourtime together will I need to do?
Because that is the real kickerof what slows an agency down.
My timeline always extends on aclient project because the
(40:52):
client doesn't get back to us ina reasonable amount of time with
review and input and changingdirection.
So, hey, so and so, here is youryour um brand guidebook.
Please go through and edit thedocument with changes you want
to see.
Hey, here is the first round oflogos.
We have three.
Please pick your favorite.
It's the, oh, I'm so sorry.
(41:12):
A week has gone by.
We are so busy, it's really hardto work on your brand when
you're working in it.
So understanding too, the waythat partner will show up for
you and help make it easier.
Or will they check in and probeyou to do the work, which we
often do?
Hey, so-and-so, it's been twodays.
We need to hear back from you.
(41:33):
People need to be led throughbranding.
And so that is really importantas the client to know that you
need a good leader, a partnerwho's gonna lead you through
because some of these things canbe really hard and you can get
stuck, and that can add weeks tomonths on finishing, and then
that's where you get fatigued.
unknown (41:50):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
So clarity.
Clarity is critical.
And and I am a by trade, I am aweb designer.
That's what I did in my pastbefore I did all the things that
I'm doing now.
Okay.
And and I would find that mostpeople knew what they did not
want as far, you know, asdesign.
They didn't they knew what theydidn't want, but they didn't
(42:13):
know what they wanted.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:14):
They weren't clear.
And we use that tool a lot tofind what we want.
I actually asked the question inthe negative.
What do you not want to see onyour about page?
What kind of pictures do you notwant to see?
What colors do you not want tosee?
It actually narrows it down.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
I mean, that's the that's something I really
appreciate about your approachis that um you put an emphasis
on on understanding, you know,and it's not just about
delivering, say, a website or alogo.
It's not uh just throwing it outthere guessing.
I mean, you you get a an exact,I mean you help them realize
what they're looking for, whatthey do want.
(42:51):
I like that a lot.
Thank you.
Um so why does sharedunderstanding inside a business
matter so much when it when itcomes to branding?
I love how you're you're howit's distinct, it's different
than marketing.
I never really looked at it likethat.
Branding and marketing beingseparate.
(43:12):
So for someone listening rightnow who wants to strengthen how
they show up, what's um what'sone small place they could start
with paying attention?
I mean, it's overwhelming.
There's so much, right?
So where can they start withpreparing themselves?
SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
One thing, one thing to start in this whole process
right now go to your ownwebsite.
What is the first sentence thatyou see on the website?
Regardless of the pictures andthe header and the image and the
navigation, what is the firstthing that your eye reads?
(43:51):
That is the most important.
That's the hook.
That's the most importantinformation on a website.
It needs to say who the heck youare.
Are and what you're going to do.
Right.
So we say breathing life intobusinesses with human-centered
brand design, or forget what ourexact one is because it changes,
(44:12):
but um, you know, you know,offer our new website, because
we're actually in the middle ofrebranding fixed informed.
So our new website's going livevery soon.
Um, and we're eliminating allmarketing.
So I don't want the wordmarketing on our site at all.
I've I've just cut that side ofthe business.
We're just a branding firm.
So um, you know, offering uhhuman-centric brand design
transformations to Coloradobusinesses.
(44:35):
It's you have to say exactly whoyou are and what you do.
We are a branding firm, right?
So we offer branding, but youhave to say exactly what you do
and for who in that firstsentence.
That's that's what I think, inmy opinion, a website, that's
the first place to start.
So if you go to your website andthe first thing you see on
(44:56):
landing is not who you are andwhat you do, change it.
I don't care what tool you use,chat GPT, AI tools of your
choosing, Gemini, throw it inthere and and throw your website
in there, throw your URL inthere and say, after reviewing
this website in one sentence,what would you say this company
does?
(45:17):
That's it.
And see all of the differentoptions, and maybe that'll start
helping you probe some ideas andreally get a succinct sentence
on there of exactly that.
So if all the other content andall the other pages are bogus,
it's not actually what you do.
You have some work to do.
Yes.
But the very first thing you cando on your brand is look at
that.
And then that one sentence thatyou define that you would say,
(45:40):
if there's one thing I want themto know about this business, who
it is and what it does, thenthat file line, that tagline
needs to go on every other placeyou show up.
We call it your digitalfootprint.
Your digital footprint is allyour social pages, your
directory listings, yourreferral partners, your LinkedIn
page, everywhere else thatyou're showing up online, just
(46:03):
Google yourself.
Google your name, Google yourbusiness, see just all the
places you show up.
If you have editing rights, anda lot of times you don't, and
sometimes you have to go contactpeople to change the way you're
showing up on their site.
Um, but make sure that that bioline, that tagline, is now
accompanied with your businessname everywhere.
And that's a good place tostart.
SPEAKER_00 (46:23):
Man, it's just a lot, right?
And so, but you make it sound soit's almost simplified, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (46:31):
Very much.
SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Oh, and so um, well, before we go, can you tell us
how we can find you?
SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
How we can Pam.
Thanks for this discussion, Pam.
I appreciate your yourpreparedness and your questions.
I I loved talking about thistoday.
So I knew that you knew what youwere doing because you were
asking me the right questionsthat I would love to talk about,
which is great.
SPEAKER_00 (46:50):
Well, I I learned, I have to tell you, you know, I
research people before myguests, and I learned so much by
looking into all of the thingsthat you do.
I mean, I was joting down notes.
SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
What a gift! That's so amazing.
So that that fulfills mymission.
My personal mission in life ishope, help one person every day.
So anything that I'm doing,anywhere I'm showing up, helps
one person every day.
I am living my purpose.
So where you can find me, uh, mypersonal website for speaking is
angillespie.com, but it's withan A.
So it's like an A-N-N-EGillespie.com.
(47:26):
Um, you can also find myventures off of that site, but
of course it's fix and form.
It's 10 to launch, which isanother startup endeavor I'm
forming.
And my podcast is calledOnlyFounders, one word, and
that's real talk betweenfounders, like you're a fly on
the wall of conversations thatwe should be having in public.
(47:46):
And I think that's it on all thesocial channels: LinkedIn,
Instagram, Facebook, YouTube.
You can find me by my name AnnGillespie.
SPEAKER_00 (47:55):
And we'll be sure and link all we're gonna put all
of that in the show notes,everybody, so don't panic.
Thank you.
But we'll put it all in the shownotes.
And man, thank you so much, Ann,because I appreciate the clarity
and the care and the and thelistening that you do to bring
this work to people and to helpthem grow and understand their
(48:18):
why.
SPEAKER_01 (48:18):
Thank you.
It's very, very meaningful.
I love helping people.
If you are trying to find yourwhy and needing that clarity, I
would recommend my brand therapysessions.
They are wonderful.
We really get some really,really good revealing in those,
and I am happy to help.
All right.
Well, thank you, Ann.
Thanks again for being here.
Thanks, Pam.
This is the Delay the Binge Podcast, a space to
slow down, get curious, andexplore what's underneath the
habits that keep pulling at us.
I'm your host, Pam Dwyer.
Enjoy the show.
Hey friends, welcome back to theDelay the Binge Podcast.
I'm your host, Pam Dwyer, andtoday's episode is one I've
(00:22):
really been looking forward to.
I'm joined by Anne Gillespie,founder of Fix and Forum.
She works with founders andteams to clarify how their brand
shows up.
Not just visually, but in theway people experience it day to
day.
We're talking about brandalignment and what it really
(00:43):
looks like to show upintentionally in your business.
And welcome.
I'm so glad you're here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:49):
Hi, Pam.
Thank you for having me.
I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Oh my goodness.
Well, can you tell us, take amoment first, before we get all
into branding and everything,tell us a little bit about you
and what you're doing thesedays.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Yeah.
I live in Colorado.
I am a native to Denver.
Grew up here, born and raised.
I went to Colorado StateUniversity.
I love the following hobbies,and they have re-entered my life
in fierce ways in my 40s.
I love to dance.
I'm a dancer and I attendclasses at a studio when I can.
I love to snowboard and hike.
(01:23):
I love to play poker andblackjack.
And I love board games andreally fun, deep conversation
and laughter that happens aroundgames.
I've been with my husband for 17years, and we have three kids,
six, eight, and 10.
And one of the most favoritethings that we do as a family is
play games around the dinnertable.
It's just so bonding.
(01:43):
And currently I am working onbuilding my speaking business.
So I'm doing more facilitationof workshops and keynotes, as
well as guesting on podcasts.
Um, but I'm also reallypassionate about human-centric
work and what that means.
And we'll get into that withfixed informs can apply
(02:03):
human-centric attributes totheir business to really connect
more with relationships becausebusinesses are grown through
relationships.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
We need to hang out.
Absolutely.
I mean my family and I, we loveboard games too.
That's how we we spend timetogether, is with all these
board games.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
But I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
What's your favorite board game?
Oh my gosh.
It's um, oh gosh, there's somany.
I mean, we have different agestoo.
I have grandchildren that are 11and 6.
And so you can imagine thedifference of board games.
But their favorite, I guess, isand I can't remember the name of
it right now.
It's the where you have to guesswho the person is that gets the
(02:45):
card that's the culprit, youknow, like the bad guy.
And so you have to do all theseends with words, and I cannot
for the life of me remember thename of it, but yeah, they love
that.
Oh, chameleon.
It's called Chameleon.
And cool.
That's a new one.
Well, all the age, differentages can play it.
So I'm gonna look that up.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
Mine is I love sequence, sequence for adults,
but then they have a sequencefor kids.
Yeah.
The animals, and I love thestrategy behind that game.
My son, he's eight, he's reallygood at that game.
It's scary.
I'm like, I don't want to playyou anymore.
I just feel like a loser.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
So it's maybe you could explain how he needs to
let you in every now and then.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, I want to start here withfix and form, a few fix and form
questions.
Like, um, so when people firstreach out to you, what do you
usually notice that they'rehoping to understand or clarify?
(03:43):
Like, what are they looking for?
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Yeah.
Usually they reach out saying,we need a new website, or we
need to grow, we need morecustomers.
We just we're not really gettingtraction with the right people.
Or people don't understand whatwe do.
And I don't like the websitebecause it doesn't explain what
we do.
Um, but I usually get peoplesaying, I am confused about how
(04:09):
to tell my story.
I have it all in my head, and Idon't really understand how to
put it on paper in a way that'sgoing to make people want to
work with us.
So those are usually some commontriggers that we hear.
And oftentimes the clarity thatcomes from my personal work with
(04:29):
the consulting side of it first,which we call brand therapy, is
often what happens as step onewith any fix informed client.
So brand therapy can be with orwithout the full branding from
transformation of logo, visuals,um, website, and all of that.
We actually can do some of thosebrand therapy sessions, which
are 90-minute talk therapysessions, but for business.
(04:52):
Um, and they're really talkingabout your brand.
Now, branding can be internaland external.
And so what I teach on is theinternal brand is so important.
The culture, the people, theprocesses, how you guys do the
work is very important just asmuch as how that team delivers
the external brand, which is theexperience that you're hoping to
(05:15):
get a five out of five starreview on.
unknown (05:18):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And that sounds so much about the way what I've
been looking for too, we know,with my own branding as of late.
But do you ever find thatsometimes the the brand of a new
client maybe feels off a littlebit or or that it needs to be
revamped?
And and what tends to beunderneath that, like their
(05:39):
feeling, maybe their why.
Have they lost sight of theirwhy?
I guess is what I'm asking.
Do you see that a lot?
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Yeah, Pam, I wouldn't even say lost sight of
the why.
I said they never even took thetime and quiet to find the why.
There's so many business ownersthat just go.
You have an idea, you have anopportunity, there's someone
that came to you with a productor service idea.
You guys were, you know, talkingover drinks.
This is often how businesses arestarted, and you're like, oh,
that's gonna be great.
(06:05):
Let's do that.
And then you start thisbusiness.
And often what happens is thebranding element of it is
skipped, the step one.
And so what actually makes ourwork really tick is marketing
agencies.
We're not a marketing agency,we're a branding firm and we
don't do marketing.
And so we collaborate best.
I have really great referralpartnerships with marketing
(06:27):
agencies because the marketingagency is where people think to
go when they need help and theyneed to grow and they don't feel
like they're getting the kind ofleads that they want.
But the problem is the marketingdollars won't be effective and
that marketing firm won't looksuccessful in the eyes of the
client without proper branding.
(06:48):
So we always try to network withmarketing agencies because we
make their best partner.
Because when you spy the websitethat doesn't make sense or
you're trying to do a leadgeneration program, but you go
back to the why, the concept,the story of the brand, the
foundation.
And that marketing agency says,I have no idea what this company
(07:09):
really does.
This is actually my most commonreferral, is from a marketing or
a digital um marketing orcreative agency.
And they say, And we have thisclient, and I couldn't tell you
what they do.
I've been on three discoverycalls with them.
My team has all developed copycopy for this campaign.
We've gone through their websiteand I can't tell you what they
(07:30):
do.
And they are terrible at tellingtheir own story, and I'm so
lost.
Can you help them?
And so they often bring me in,either just me as a
white-labeled consultant astheir brand strategist or that
marketing firm.
And maybe we just need to gothrough the brand therapy
sessions and finesse the contentand the story, the copy, and
find the why, because that stepis often skipped.
(07:54):
And then their marketing dollarswill convert because the leads
that you're communicating, thatlead flow will actually bring
them back to something thatmakes sense, which is a brand
story, which is explaining whoyou are, what you're selling,
and why it would help them.
Now, if that step is missed,there is no why.
So there's no connection.
So those marketing dollars arewasted.
unknown (08:15):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Well, a lot of branding advice I noticed
focuses on what we put out intothe world.
So what I'm curious about is howhow how brand shows up in
everyday moments, you know, thethings people actually
experience.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
Yeah, this is so important.
So every piece of contact andcommunication that a business
engages in incorporatesbranding, right?
If you think about it, a brandis going to hire from a cultural
perspective a person who's acultural fit, right?
So we hire for energy,alignment, values, vibe, and the
(08:53):
skill sets can come, right?
So then you think about thatperson and their behavior and
how they engage in work everyday, internally with colleagues
and coworkers and externallywith consumers and customers.
And all of that tone of voice,all of that energy, all of their
behavior choices are a part ofthe brand.
It's a reflection.
And then you're thinking aboutemails, social media posts,
(09:17):
phone calls, text messages,marketing campaigns, digital
banner ads, all of that haswords.
And the words all have a tone ofvoice to them.
And all of those words need tocome back to a succinct brand
strategy.
And if that brand voice hasnever been developed and found
because the why was neverestablished or it's changed and
(09:40):
you haven't actually checked into see how it's evolved, those
words can sound confusing.
So, for example, on LinkedIn,your bio could read something
that was outdated five years agoof what your business is doing,
but then someone goes to yourTikTok and it's all the new,
refreshed, purpose-driven biothat makes sense.
But now you're going, uh oh,there's an alignment, which one
(10:01):
is true?
And it looks like you're notpaying attention to detail
because you're not having acohesive voice for that brand
online.
So when the why is skipped, whenwe say at the top, the CEOs, the
executives, the leadership says,this is why we're in business.
Okay, well, then you canactually formulate the voice,
(10:24):
the persona, and all of thecontent and the storytelling
that actually expresses who youare.
And this is most important,which is why I tell everybody
hire someone outside to help youwith branding.
I've even done this, I'verebranded fix and form three
times.
And every time I have someoneoutside as a sounding board,
even though I'm doing my ownwork, because it's impossible to
(10:44):
get out of your own head byyourself.
So soundboarding is so importantfor any type of strategy work,
which is why hiring an outsidefacilitator.
I mean, heck, I'm even hired tocome in for two-hour meetings
with executives as an outsidemediator.
Law firm, I just did this.
They did a two-hour strategysession with all the partners.
And I was there to listen, tocapture, to ideate, and to
(11:07):
strategize as someone outside ofdrinking the Kool-Aid, which is
so helpful for leadershipbecause getting inside of our
head and doing brand speak, itreally doesn't resonate.
You have to think about it, A,from the consumer's perspective
and what they want and what theyneed and what they'll think of
to even find you.
SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
I can really relate to that so much because um just
personally, just in the pastyear, it seems like my brand has
evolved into different, and itjust is constantly evolving.
So, as the creative in thesituation, you know, my mind's
full of all these ideas andstrat what I think is strategy.
But um, what's happening is thebrand just keeps evolving into
(11:50):
something differently.
So, how do you help help peoplewith that, you know, when the
growth or change or just thepressure of rebranding affects
affects them mentally, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah.
This is especially true withsolopreneurs, where we change
our mind often, right?
Because we are experimenting andwe're testing.
And when we get new information,we might pivot the direction
that we're going.
Now it's really important totalk through this and have a
list, right?
I have a list actually that saysfuture ideas, maybe not now, and
then ideas I want to implementnow.
(12:27):
And for me, I feel like I'vedone the work long enough to
where I can separate the two.
But with other founders, withother solopreneurs, it's very
important what you talked about.
It's a mental health piecebecause it's input, it's
validating your value in thatinput as the business leader.
And so if you ignore thosethoughts or you lose them and
don't write them down, you areteaching yourself to distrust
(12:50):
the process of thinking.
And so when you allow yourselfthe space or the tools to trust
the process of thinking andideating, documenting them and
then sorting out where theybelong now or in the future, and
then you can share that withsomeone else as an outside
sounding board, that developsthat trust of ideating.
So you're going to furthervalidate your opinions.
So I do think this is verypowerful for mental health as a
(13:12):
business owner to write downyour thoughts, but you could
have thoughts that say, is thisdistraction and noise from my
goal for right now?
Or is this going to help addvalue to achieving this goal,
which is why it's very importantto goal set for your year.
We're now we're only inFebruary.
I don't know when this is goingto air, but I'll say it's the
beginning of the year.
(13:32):
It's a beautiful Q1.
You have all of this time, it'snot too late, to start setting
some goals for even thisquarter.
If the whole year feels huge,just looking right in front of
you and saying, I want to dothat.
And so in December, I'm guiltyof doing way too many things.
I'm a serial entrepreneur.
I own three companies.
I have a podcast.
(13:53):
It's a lot, right?
And I have a lot of differentprojects and ideas.
And I'm co-founding thisnetworking group that's starting
up here in Colorado because Ilove people and I love
connecting and people go, andyou do way too much.
I'm like, yes, I do.
So I don't go crazy.
I've really tried to practicethe skill set in the last six
months of two things.
(14:13):
Two things out of everything onmy plate, I can't give my energy
to everything.
What are two things that I wantright now?
And so in December, I said, Iwant to book one speaking
engagement in Q1.
So I really just dwindled itdown to simplicity.
And I want to sell one of mybrand therapy packages, those
(14:34):
strategy sessions, which is likethree, five.
It depends on the need of theoutcome.
Um, and that's it, right?
And so everything else that I'mworking on, everything else can
kind of flow in the backgroundand I'll do it, right?
It's it's not like I'm not doingany work in those other areas.
It's almost like how we pick atarget audience.
It's like the same thing.
(14:55):
I have a lot of clients thatsay, well, we're not just
working with 30 to 40 year oldswho are females.
I said, I know, but you have tohave a target who's gonna
resonate with what you're doingthe most.
And then that doesn't mean thatyou're not gonna capture
everybody else, but you can'tpay for and put energy behind
marketing to everyone, eventhough your product could help
(15:18):
everyone.
The primary first person who'sgonna benefit is that, right?
So we have targets just like wedo with goals.
So just because it's not in oneof those two goals, it doesn't
mean that I'm not putting someenergy to everything else and I
won't receive things everywhereelse.
It's just I am focused on thatday.
(15:41):
Will this conversation lead meto one of those two goals?
And if other noise and activityexists outside of that, great,
because those are all thingsI've created that are a part of
my world.
And I've had momentum from thepast that I've been networking
and talking about and pitchingall these other things.
So they're naturally going toflow.
But where I'm generating themost impact and energy and
(16:04):
dollars are those two goals forright now.
And I can change my mind.
The power to change your mind ishuge as an entrepreneur.
You have to be able to givegrace and say, oops, that was
wrong.
We're gonna do it this way.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
And that's okay.
Man, you are the epitome ofevery message we have on this
show.
We have a plus one theory, whichis doing your very best plus one
more in small incremental steps,right?
Just taking a little bit at atime, you know.
And we've all established withthe new year that we're not
(16:41):
looking at our our annual goals,we just look at quarterly goals.
And it seems I love that.
Yeah, because then if itchanges, it changes and it's
okay.
You know, we can there'ssomething about the year that
feels heavy, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
Like the year, it feels really permanent.
And it it feels more likehandcuffs to that goal.
You're absolutely right.
When you say a year, you you'reless likely to feel the
flexibility to change your mind.
Whereas the quarter, we onlyhave a month and a half, two
months left in this quarter, wecan see how that feels, and then
(17:17):
we can change our mind.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
Right.
Just take a brief moment toassess the first quarter and
then determine what you need todo going into the second
quarter.
You know, and that's structuretoo.
I'm terrible at structure.
That's my my weakest link, Ithink.
And so when hiring a team or uhhelp, that's what I have them do
(17:39):
for me.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
That makes sense.
I too in my creative flow.
Yes, I I'm not great withstructure.
I need to have more of those opsVA support people around me, the
people who love schedules andspreadsheets.
And I just um linked up withthese, this amazing group to do.
So I did actually, because Inarrowed down my goals, I
reached both of them already.
(18:01):
And I have three speakingengagements booked in Q1 because
I only set out to do one.
So I will tell you, it isproving me and it's it's
establishing trust with me tohonor the goal and just focus on
the one goal, and then more willcome.
But I'm working with thisamazing group to um put this
(18:21):
women's event together at theend of this month.
And one of us, okay, so there'sthree of us, and I loved it.
We just had a meeting to firm upeverything yesterday.
And she comes in, Pam, she has atwo-page printed agenda and
outline of what we're gonna.
And I'm like, well, we are sonot the same person, and I love
(18:45):
you for loving structure andoutlines and spreadsheets.
Oh my gosh.
I come to the meeting with myotter co-pilot recordings.
I slap that on the table, andI'm like, all right, let's just
all talk.
And then my creative juices andideating are flowing, and I form
this entire year of annualwomen's events every quarter by
theme, by location.
We talk about what and they'relike, this is great.
(19:06):
I'm like, but you're capturingit in all of the structure,
which keeps me sane and focused.
And then uh this other one overhere, and then he's really
coming in with like the bighigh-level view from the CEO
soapbox, and then I'm just thisideator speaker and I'm the
keynote at all of them, right?
And so I'm formulating all of itinto a workshop series.
(19:27):
And it and it's fulfilling allof our buckets because we're all
have you ever read WorkingGeniuses?
SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
No, but I've heard of it.
I think a couple of podcastsago, someone suggested that I
read it's six or nine orsomething.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
I this is where the details and me, we're not we're
not friends, but it's workinggenius.
And I listened to it and I lovedit because we all have our areas
of work where we are thrivingand we maybe excel and then we
can do.
There's like two or three, andall the rest are a dumpster
fire.
You should not touch those.
And I look at operations andstructure, and my one of my best
(20:03):
friends is in finance andaccounting, and she loves
spreadsheets.
And I said, God bless you,because I do not.
And so the fact that you love apivot table, I'm like, that is
why we're friends, because youare the yin to me, my young, my
yang.
I just don't, I don't get it.
And so I think that's how wehire the best teams too, as
(20:24):
entrepreneurs, which we usuallyfail at.
I'm terrible at asking for help.
I'm the the independent womanwho's healing.
I'm also a recovering peoplepleaser.
And so I'm trying to not doeverything, but hiring people
when you do, when you do findthat magic and you find someone
that does stuff with your ideas,and then they evolve it into
work.
(20:44):
You go, whoa, that's reallycool.
And I'm like, well, you'vethought of it.
I'm like, yeah, but I don't knowhow to execute it like that.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
So it's really powerful.
That's a lot of we're we areresearching a lot on what we
call quiet depletion.
And it it affects everyone, butuh mostly women that are doing
so much.
We all do, and we're we're highachievers, right?
And we check all the boxes off,but we we're forgetting to look
(21:12):
in, for we're forgetting to, welose our identity in the whole
process because we're just sobusy, you know, getting it all
done.
But the one number one thing isto delegate.
You know, we we find thatdelegating um different
strengths around you is what'sgoing to help you allow you to
have time to look in and tofocus on yourself and your own
(21:34):
growth.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Absolutely.
Well, I think an example of thatis in motherhood, you know, I
think that I was trying to breaka cycle of modeling the parents
doing everything, the mom doingeverything on hyperdrive.
And, you know, when we slowdown, when we stop and we lead
at home through motherhood andwe finally learn to delegate to
(21:56):
our children and give them tasksand chores and they want to
help.
And last night, my 10-year-oldwas like, Mama, I what else can
I do?
I want to help with dinner.
And I got irritated becausethat's my trigger, that's my
natural response from how I wasraised, of someone kind of
stepping in because I'm going todo it.
And I realized, no, no, the moreI learn how to delegate, they
want to help, they want to behelpful.
(22:16):
And it's a really powerful toolto raise children.
And so I said, okay, let's dothis.
And then let's do that.
Let's do that.
And then I didn't have to do it.
And the the thought has to shiftfrom autopilot to I'm going to
go do this to stop, pause, thinkabout how you would explain what
you need done and do thatinstead.
And then you've relievedyourself from everything that
(22:38):
follows.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
That is perfection.
That is that is perfection forour our whole show is the pause.
You know, we call it thepowerful pause or the purposeful
pause because you have to giveyour brain time to adjust from
the old pattern to the newpattern you're trying to build.
Absolutely.
It's amazing how it works.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (22:59):
I know it really is.
And when you do it and you seethe joy and the validation of
your children, your coworkers,your team, your support staff,
when you enable them to helpwith the common mission.
This is what makes a greatleader is allowing people to
show up for you and asking forwhat you need.
(23:20):
And women, I find, have thehardest time of just asking for
what we need.
And I'm really fascinated bythis concept of, you know, who
are some men in your life?
Because women asking men is likeunheard of, but we need to in
work.
We need to be empowered at work.
But women asking women in ournetworks and women asking men in
(23:40):
our networks of one thing theycan do for us almost a task, a
favor, um, you know, for for thework for the project.
There's so many times I'velooked back and said, oh my
gosh, I had an amazingconversation around that.
And I didn't ask for anything.
So of course nothing happenedout of it.
And I leave and go, oh, well,they're not interested, or it's
(24:03):
not a good fit, and it must havebeen me, or what did I say, you
know, wrong that didn't sell it?
It wasn't the storytelling, itwas the ask.
There was no ask.
And women struggle, myselfincluded.
I'm really trying to recoverfrom that this year and say,
look, I'm gonna ask.
Like if there's a man or a womansitting in front of me, what I
am I'm conscious, I take thatpause before the discussion,
(24:26):
before the meeting, and I say,what do I want this person to do
or give me after ourconversation?
And if I can't have an answer tothat question, I shouldn't be
meeting with them because it's atime suck.
So what do I want from thisperson with this person?
Or maybe I want to give thisperson something.
What is that?
There needs to be a question,right?
(24:48):
And we have to be okay asking,even if it's a no, because maybe
the no is going to evolve usinto something even better.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
Asking is not failure.
I have we have to constantlyremind a lot of our community
that asking for help is notfailure at all.
You know, it's just more clarityand being intentional and also
giving other people a moment toshine in what their their lane
is, what the what their strengthis.
(25:15):
And I noticed that a lot aboutyou.
I was looking at your podcastand, you know, just doing a
little research on you so Icould ask you the questions you
would most enjoy.
And uh I noticed how curious youare.
You are very curious, which thathelps.
I notice it helps a lot for youto figure out what's going on
(25:37):
beneath the surface because younever think about businesses
needing brand therapy.
I love that y'all call it that.
But a lot of times, I'm sure yougo into a new client's staff
meeting or when you firstintroduce yourself, and there's
all this personal stuff in theway.
It's like a wall, I'm sure.
(25:58):
Like you can't get the work donethat you need to get done
because of all the issues,personal mental health issues in
there.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
Pam, you're touching on something I'm really deeply
passionate about, and it's apart of my speaking this year.
It's talking about the wholeperson.
It's talking about work-lifebalance.
There's no work life.
It's work life.
It's one, it's one word.
We're a whole person.
So we're not going to show up atwork differently than we show up
at home.
The habits, the triggers, thebehaviors, the cycles that we
have in both places will exist.
(26:28):
And so if we're going to be anintegrated leader, both at work
and at home, especially if wehave kids, we have to
incorporate some of these skillsets that take us out of the
noise.
Like you're saying, there's somuch noise in front of us.
For example, you go into ameeting, let's say there's 20
members of your staff there andyou're the CEO.
Okay.
(26:49):
And you are afraid of deliveringthis meeting because you don't
have the solution.
A lot of CEOs think they have togo into a meeting with the
solution and present it to theirteam for everybody to start to
get to work.
And what happens is when aleader realizes they don't have
the answer, they're missing themost amazing human connection
(27:11):
piece of work, which iscollaboration.
And it's okay to say, andthey're they're afraid to look
like a failure.
They're afraid to show upunprepared, even though being
prepared is also being preparedfor collaboration.
And a great leader would comeinto that staff meeting and say,
Look, guys, I am they this is mywhole speaking platform.
(27:31):
It's called Share Your Fear.
You share your fear to evolve,get curious about it.
So you're afraid of looking likea failure in front of your
people.
You're afraid of looking stupid.
Okay, we all are, right?
And this is how fear, leadershipis often rooted in fear instead
of trust.
And so when we go into thatstaff meeting as a leader and an
integrated leader, and we'veshared our fear and we've said,
(27:52):
I fear that if I don't go intothis meeting with the answer, I
will look stupid and my peoplewon't respect me.
And then I'm going to get firedand have no money to provide for
my family.
It's like this string of fearsin our consciousness.
So then we say all of that, weshare it.
And then we say, and by goinginto this meeting without the
(28:13):
solution, I'm also not afailure, but I'm actually being
prepared to open the floor fordiscussion and collaboration,
which is maybe something I'venever done before in my
leadership style.
And my team might really enjoythat.
And I might actually gain somereally amazing ideas from that.
So you then you go in and youstart this the staff meeting and
say, we're going to do thingsdifferent today.
(28:33):
I'm not coming at you with asolution like a drill sergeant
and then saying everybody whateveryone's going to do.
I'm coming at you with what Iwould love for us to achieve,
but I don't know how to getthere.
And I would love your ideas andyour input.
And let's have a morediscussion-based staff meeting
instead of me just shoutingorders at you.
Think of the culture that justshifted by that leader sharing
(28:55):
their fear, dumbing down theelement of the fear by curiosity
and asking it questions and thensaying, that actually doesn't
exist at all.
There's no fear.
No one's going to think I'mstupid.
Actually, people might respectme more if I invite
collaboration on something thatI don't have the answer to
because I'm not supposed to haveall the answers all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
I love that so much.
If I look back at my past worklife and different corporations,
different types, all differenttypes of jobs, the best leaders
I've ever worked under are theones that were human to me.
You know, they seemed they werevulnerable, they wanted to
connect, and they gave me avoice.
And there's only there's veryfew, there's probably two.
(29:42):
But there's two that I rememberfondly that that you know
empowered their team to be um tobe involved in decisions and you
know, they were they f we feltrespected.
And so we performed better, youknow?
Absolutely.
Well, so do you notice, okay,let's go on the uh the external
(30:05):
part, like when you're helping abusiness um transform into this,
into all the things into a newmaybe rebranding, you know, uh
setting them up, getting them uhemotionally and mentally strong,
things change.
So do you notice that thecustomer, the the customers, how
do how do they feel when theynotice these changes?
(30:28):
I mean, is there an influx?
SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
That's interesting.
It's not actually the customersthat notice.
What I what I hear is once thebranding evolves, the team
changes.
So usually there are clientshave some level of support, have
some level of team deliveringit, even if it's a solopreneur,
um, they're going to have uh,even if it's themselves, right,
(30:52):
coming back and saying this,which they're their own team,
the team of one.
Um, it's more of the clarityinternally of what you're
actually selling that changes.
So your customer is changingfrom the branding evolving.
And the customer that comes inis going to make you feel more
aligned with clarity becauseyour branding and your message
(31:15):
is now talking to the rightpeople.
And so by rebranding, youactually, with the feedback that
you're getting or your team'sgetting, they go, Oh my gosh,
you know, we are just gettingthe right people.
Or I just had the most amazingdiscovery call and it's exactly
who we work with.
Or I finally feel like I canproudly guide someone to my
(31:37):
website at a networking eventand show off my business card
instead of shunning from it andsaying, please go to our website
and look at this page, likespecifically, because we
developed their websitestrategically to be a tool to
actually build a business.
Like how imagine that.
Like that's what websites aresupposed to do, but so often we
(31:58):
neglect them and we we forgetthat we need to be updating them
and evolving them to accuratelyshow the changes that are being
made, even if it's fast.
So imagine if you're talking tosomeone and you're a team member
for this brand.
And before you were, you werelike, oh, well, here's our
website, but it doesn't reallysay what we do.
Let me send you a one sheet onit.
And then you have just createdmore work for yourself or your
(32:20):
team member to go reallyestablish that one sheet of the
actual thing that you're doing,because the website isn't
working.
So I think it's just kind ofthat breath of fresh air of
clarity after we work withclients where they go, Oh my
gosh, An, I feel incredible.
It's like that's why we call itbrand therapy because we work
with the whole person.
So we're actually kind ofevolving, because there's so
(32:41):
much self-identity in people intheir work, them as a human.
So it's self-development.
So the brand work is actuallyhelping them clarify and get out
of their own head of who am I inthis work, right?
And what are we doing?
And why are we doing it?
And why should we be sellingthis?
And then who would be the mostbenefiting from what we're
(33:04):
selling?
And when you have that clarity,the people supporting you feel
so relieved.
And often those referralmarketing agencies I was talking
about, they come back and say,thank you.
Like they'll they'll come backand say, This website is
phenomenal, or oh my gosh, Ididn't even know they did that.
Really?
Oh, I didn't know they soldthat.
And it's the big aha of theuncovering or the revealing.
(33:26):
Um, and I think the share yourfear tool is like the
methodology to radical truthtelling, and we call it the
revealing.
Nothing's broken, it just hasn'tbeen revealed yet.
And so in both work and personallife, we we use this process to
reveal what's actually been uphere the whole time.
You go, oh, thank you.
(33:46):
I just finished with a client.
And they said, you goteverything that's been in our
heads for years, and twodifferent website revisions and
still didn't accurately tell ourstory.
And now we feel that we arebeing represented.
And you know what?
It goes back to this most basichuman need, Pam, which is to
feel seen and heard.
Yeah, human being, a baby, onceborn, they need to be seen and
(34:10):
heard.
That's it.
That's your fundamental need tosurvive and thrive in this life.
And so if we're helping brandsand the people behind the brands
feel seen and heard, that's themost basic human gift that you
can give anyone.
And so if you're making theirbrands do that and they actually
show up and feel seen and heard,ugh, it's the most validating
(34:31):
gift that you can give.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Man, it truly is.
And to feel seen and heard, Iknow this personally from
growing up the way I grew up inan abusive childhood, but you
know, we felt you feel invisiblewhen you grow up like that.
And then you carry that intoadulthood, you know, and that's
a real issue.
But I think that's why I'm soadamant about kindness, because
(34:54):
I think people take that forgranted because kindness is not
only good to give, makes itmakes you feel good to give it,
but it also feels good toreceive it because you're you're
seen, you feel worthy, you areheard, you know, and listening,
oh my gosh.
I've had to really work on thatlately because we're not taught
to listen as a skill, right?
(35:15):
We're taught to pay attention,but we're really not truly
listening.
And, you know, to do a podcast,you really do have to tune in
and listen to what the person'ssaying.
And so I've really been workingon that.
That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Absolutely.
I think listening and effectivelistening is probably one of the
best skill sets you can have tobe successful.
And it's about being exactlyyeah, and I think listening with
also a level of emotionalintelligence where you've
evolved and you've done theself-development, you've been
emotionally regulated.
(35:52):
I too grew up in an abusivehome.
And I think that that Icelebrate it now because I'm
healed, I've forgiven, and Irecovered.
And so I'm not coming at it froma broken heart, I'm coming at it
from a whole heart saying, thankyou, Lord, for giving me that
experience in that home, becauseit made me who I am now, which I
am hyper-aware and hyper-tunedin to empathy, to listening, and
(36:14):
to fulfilling that basic humanneed of feeling seen and heard
and helping others heal with it,because the world needs healing.
And from one tragic story to theother comes a rebirth and a
beautiful transformation.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
Well, and we've covered this a little bit, but
I'm just going to re-ask itagain because it's a question a
lot of my listeners want it.
I always tell them who I'll bespeaking, you know, visiting
with, and ask them if they haveany questions.
But this question uh came out alot.
So when someone is thinkingabout investing in brand work,
what questions do you think arehelpful for them to ask
(36:52):
themselves first?
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
Yeah.
So first is you want to see theprocess of branding granularly,
like in a visual way laid outfor you.
So, for example, our timeline isthree to four months, right?
First comes the brand therapysessions.
How long does that take tounderstand the work involved?
Then we transfer into the logoredesign and the visual brand
(37:14):
with icons, fonts, colors.
Then we go into writing thewebsite copy, and then we go
into creating that beautifulbrand video work because
human-centered, we believe everyevery human brand should have
video because that's very um themost human form of content you
can have.
Um, and then we go intodesigning the actual website,
and that's another month.
(37:35):
And then we should be on goal todeliver a uh website with a
sound SEO technically um auditedwebsite, which all of our fix
and form websites have thatinitial SEO foundation to them.
Um, and what I would say is withthat process, branding is like a
mystical unicorn.
(37:55):
I've always said this.
A lot of times we say branding,but you think it's a logo or you
think it's social media or youthink it's marketing.
And I have to say, more timesthan not in my career that I'm
not a marketer.
They say, oh, well, you domarketing.
No, no, I used to do a marketingdegree.
I own a branding firm and we dobranding.
And how is branding different?
So you have to constantly askthese questions if you're
(38:17):
looking to invest in branding,clarify how that service
provider view branding as well?
And is it the branding thatyou're thinking of?
Because branding needs to bedefined at every moment.
So if you are looking forbranding, meaning I need a new
logo, well, then maybe you justneed a logo designer and that's
it.
You need to refresh your logo.
(38:38):
If you think of branding as Ineed social media work, well,
then you need to sayspecifically, not branding, but
I am looking to enhance my brandpresence on social media.
So that's a social mediamanager, which is a function of
marketing.
And so you have to reallyunderstand what it is that
you're asking for, but you alsohave to ask that company to walk
(39:02):
you through the literal projecttimeline of the work that they
deliver and when in the processthey deliver it.
And the most important questionto ask if you're looking for
brand work is what is expectedof you and your time in their
process?
Because my clients often getfatigued.
Branding work is heavy, it'sinundating, it's hard, it's
(39:25):
therapy for a reason because wecome at your brain and you're
like, oh my gosh, thesequestions and finding your wife
and these deep, you know, I haveI have clients share drug
addictions and grandma problemsand being an orphan and all
these things come out in brandtherapy has nothing to do with
business, but it does becausebusiness is personal.
And when you are a human-centricbusiness, you are the people
(39:45):
that are going to come out inthat business.
And so your stories matter.
And also, that is greatbackground for me to tell your
story of elements that mayimpact the way you do business
and why.
So it helps establish the whybecause you were an orphan and
your grandma raised you on drugsor whatever the situation was,
right?
And so oftentimes people say,Well, you probably don't need to
(40:08):
know this, but but they weremoved to tell me that story for
a reason because I needed tolisten.
So with brand work, it canbecome long.
You can get fatigued, you can beon month six and just feel so
heavy with it.
And then you don't want to wasteall of that work because
expectations weren't clear inthe beginning.
(40:29):
So if you are a client lookingfor brand work, you ask, what
time commitment is expected fromme and how much homework or work
outside of our meetings and ourtime together will I need to do?
Because that is the real kickerof what slows an agency down.
My timeline always extends on aclient project because the
(40:52):
client doesn't get back to us ina reasonable amount of time with
review and input and changingdirection.
So, hey, so and so, here is youryour um brand guidebook.
Please go through and edit thedocument with changes you want
to see.
Hey, here is the first round oflogos.
We have three.
Please pick your favorite.
It's the, oh, I'm so sorry.
(41:12):
A week has gone by.
We are so busy, it's really hardto work on your brand when
you're working in it.
So understanding too, the waythat partner will show up for
you and help make it easier.
Or will they check in and probeyou to do the work, which we
often do?
Hey, so-and-so, it's been twodays.
We need to hear back from you.
(41:33):
People need to be led throughbranding.
And so that is really importantas the client to know that you
need a good leader, a partnerwho's gonna lead you through
because some of these things canbe really hard and you can get
stuck, and that can add weeks tomonths on finishing, and then
that's where you get fatigued.
unknown (41:50):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
So clarity.
Clarity is critical.
And and I am a by trade, I am aweb designer.
That's what I did in my pastbefore I did all the things that
I'm doing now.
Okay.
And and I would find that mostpeople knew what they did not
want as far, you know, asdesign.
They didn't they knew what theydidn't want, but they didn't
(42:13):
know what they wanted.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:14):
They weren't clear.
And we use that tool a lot tofind what we want.
I actually asked the question inthe negative.
What do you not want to see onyour about page?
What kind of pictures do you notwant to see?
What colors do you not want tosee?
It actually narrows it down.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
I mean, that's the that's something I really
appreciate about your approachis that um you put an emphasis
on on understanding, you know,and it's not just about
delivering, say, a website or alogo.
It's not uh just throwing it outthere guessing.
I mean, you you get a an exact,I mean you help them realize
what they're looking for, whatthey do want.
(42:51):
I like that a lot.
Thank you.
Um so why does sharedunderstanding inside a business
matter so much when it when itcomes to branding?
I love how you're you're howit's distinct, it's different
than marketing.
I never really looked at it likethat.
Branding and marketing beingseparate.
(43:12):
So for someone listening rightnow who wants to strengthen how
they show up, what's um what'sone small place they could start
with paying attention?
I mean, it's overwhelming.
There's so much, right?
So where can they start withpreparing themselves?
SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
One thing, one thing to start in this whole process
right now go to your ownwebsite.
What is the first sentence thatyou see on the website?
Regardless of the pictures andthe header and the image and the
navigation, what is the firstthing that your eye reads?
(43:51):
That is the most important.
That's the hook.
That's the most importantinformation on a website.
It needs to say who the heck youare.
Are and what you're going to do.
Right.
So we say breathing life intobusinesses with human-centered
brand design, or forget what ourexact one is because it changes,
(44:12):
but um, you know, you know,offer our new website, because
we're actually in the middle ofrebranding fixed informed.
So our new website's going livevery soon.
Um, and we're eliminating allmarketing.
So I don't want the wordmarketing on our site at all.
I've I've just cut that side ofthe business.
We're just a branding firm.
So um, you know, offering uhhuman-centric brand design
transformations to Coloradobusinesses.
(44:35):
It's you have to say exactly whoyou are and what you do.
We are a branding firm, right?
So we offer branding, but youhave to say exactly what you do
and for who in that firstsentence.
That's that's what I think, inmy opinion, a website, that's
the first place to start.
So if you go to your website andthe first thing you see on
(44:56):
landing is not who you are andwhat you do, change it.
I don't care what tool you use,chat GPT, AI tools of your
choosing, Gemini, throw it inthere and and throw your website
in there, throw your URL inthere and say, after reviewing
this website in one sentence,what would you say this company
does?
(45:17):
That's it.
And see all of the differentoptions, and maybe that'll start
helping you probe some ideas andreally get a succinct sentence
on there of exactly that.
So if all the other content andall the other pages are bogus,
it's not actually what you do.
You have some work to do.
Yes.
But the very first thing you cando on your brand is look at
that.
And then that one sentence thatyou define that you would say,
(45:40):
if there's one thing I want themto know about this business, who
it is and what it does, thenthat file line, that tagline
needs to go on every other placeyou show up.
We call it your digitalfootprint.
Your digital footprint is allyour social pages, your
directory listings, yourreferral partners, your LinkedIn
page, everywhere else thatyou're showing up online, just
(46:03):
Google yourself.
Google your name, Google yourbusiness, see just all the
places you show up.
If you have editing rights, anda lot of times you don't, and
sometimes you have to go contactpeople to change the way you're
showing up on their site.
Um, but make sure that that bioline, that tagline, is now
accompanied with your businessname everywhere.
And that's a good place tostart.
SPEAKER_00 (46:23):
Man, it's just a lot, right?
And so, but you make it sound soit's almost simplified, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (46:31):
Very much.
SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Oh, and so um, well, before we go, can you tell us
how we can find you?
SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
How we can Pam.
Thanks for this discussion, Pam.
I appreciate your yourpreparedness and your questions.
I I loved talking about thistoday.
So I knew that you knew what youwere doing because you were
asking me the right questionsthat I would love to talk about,
which is great.
SPEAKER_00 (46:50):
Well, I I learned, I have to tell you, you know, I
research people before myguests, and I learned so much by
looking into all of the thingsthat you do.
I mean, I was joting down notes.
SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
What a gift! That's so amazing.
So that that fulfills mymission.
My personal mission in life ishope, help one person every day.
So anything that I'm doing,anywhere I'm showing up, helps
one person every day.
I am living my purpose.
So where you can find me, uh, mypersonal website for speaking is
angillespie.com, but it's withan A.
So it's like an A-N-N-EGillespie.com.
(47:26):
Um, you can also find myventures off of that site, but
of course it's fix and form.
It's 10 to launch, which isanother startup endeavor I'm
forming.
And my podcast is calledOnlyFounders, one word, and
that's real talk betweenfounders, like you're a fly on
the wall of conversations thatwe should be having in public.
(47:46):
And I think that's it on all thesocial channels: LinkedIn,
Instagram, Facebook, YouTube.
You can find me by my name AnnGillespie.
SPEAKER_00 (47:55):
And we'll be sure and link all we're gonna put all
of that in the show notes,everybody, so don't panic.
Thank you.
But we'll put it all in the shownotes.
And man, thank you so much, Ann,because I appreciate the clarity
and the care and the and thelistening that you do to bring
this work to people and to helpthem grow and understand their
(48:18):
why.
SPEAKER_01 (48:18):
Thank you.
It's very, very meaningful.
I love helping people.
If you are trying to find yourwhy and needing that clarity, I
would recommend my brand therapysessions.
They are wonderful.
We really get some really,really good revealing in those,
and I am happy to help.
All right.
Well, thank you, Ann.
Thanks again for being here.
Thanks, Pam.
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