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You can spend years paying for dental indemnity and still feel unsure about what actually happens when things go wrong. We wanted to fix that by pulling apart the most common indemnity myths we hear in practice and replacing them with plain-English explanations you can use at renewal time.
We talk through the real differences between discretionary dental indemnity and non-discretionary professional indemnity insurance for UK dentists, including why having a contract, clear policy wording, and a route to the Financial Ombudsman Service can matter when the pressure is on. We also challenge the rumour that “insurers always look for a way out”, and explain what a fair presentation of risk looks like in the real world.
Another big sticking point is fear. Many dentists hesitate to call their indemnity provider for advice because they worry next year’s indemnity premium will jump. We unpack why good providers want you to call early, how early notification helps resolve issues before they become claims, and why risk management advice can be as valuable as the cover itself. From there we get practical about pricing: claims made vs claims occurrence, retroactive cover, and why “cheaper” is only meaningful once you understand what is and is not included.
We also cover switching, including the anxiety some clinicians feel about leaving a mutual and whether past work stays protected. If you want to make an educated choice instead of a habitual one, this is the conversation to hear. Subscribe for more dentistry finance insights, share this with a colleague who is renewing soon, and leave us a review with the one indemnity myth you want busted next.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr James (01:43):
Welcome back to the Dentists Who Invest Podcast
today, and this is a little bitof a different episode because
it is an expose on all thethings that we should know about
indemnity, but they're somehowobfuscated.
So listen up guys because theseare the things that are gonna
be able to save you money andmake sure you're gonna get a
better deal.
I'm joined by Neel Jaiswal andAdam O'Keefe, both of AllMed
(02:03):
Pro.
We're gonna be getting into thedetails and the specifics of
the need-to-know stuff thatpeople just don't share with you
whenever it comes to yourindemnity.
Indemnity myth busting, if youwill.
Looking forward to this episodeas ever.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists who investSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
(02:26):
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then upon completion of
each lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and 5%discount on lab bills for dental
principals, amongst other perksand discounts for members.
(02:48):
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Guys, Indemnity Mythbussen isthe uh name of the game when it
comes to this episode on thepodcast.
And Adam, I know you and I havedone similar-ish stuff to this
before, but there's a lot ofstuff to unravel.
(03:10):
And of course, we're not goingto point fingers today, that's
not what we're here to do.
We're just here to say, hey, doyou know what?
Here's where everybody is,here's how we can do better.
But before we do that, Neel,welcome back to the Dentists Who
Invest podcast.
It's been a three-year hiatus.
Would you believe we need to dobetter than that, don't we?
Neel (03:26):
I know time flies, as I was saying, when you're having
fun, and I've had a couple ofchildren who's kept me busy.
But uh I think I messaged youmaybe last Christmas to say uh
congratulations on how nice itis.
Although we don't talk, becauseyou're uh virtually there, I I
think of you and I see you popup, so it's it's like we're
there.
Um but no, congratulationsagain on everything.
(03:47):
And um I heard there's aconference coming up as well,
which sounds very exciting.
Dr James (03:51):
Oh, hell yeah, hell yeah.
That's on the 9th of May foranybody who's interested.
The Business of DentistryConference, 500 dentists in
attendance in Birmingham.
So yeah, man, it's gonna bereally cool.
And I'm just sorry I didn't uhreach out to you sooner to
invite you because Neel's gonnabe there as well, guys, for what
it's worth, too, uh, which willbe very fun.
Certainly the more the merrier.
(04:11):
But I uh yeah, like I wassaying, I really can't believe
it's been three years.
You know, it's funny becausesome people you just talk to
them a little bit, and threeyears, you just pick up where
you left off.
It's almost like no timepassed, isn't it?
So I I I definitely feel likethat for sure.
But you know what?
I think before we just jumpinto the myth busting, uh, which
is obviously the uh the thepoint of this episode, uh you
(04:32):
guys wanted to announcesomething, didn't you?
Because Adam, you've had a fewthings move around with AMP, and
now you and Neel work togetherin a different capacity.
Uh interested to know more onthat.
Adam (04:41):
Yeah, Neel and uh PDI have worked closely with AMP for
sort of four or five years now.
Uh we worked on co-events,webinars, training sessions, and
we're always working.
Um, well, we just we just seemto work together.
So from from the beginning ofthe month, um PDI have now
joined forces with AllMed Pro.
Um so it's really exciting.
(05:03):
Um from our perspective, thesimple reason was dentists want
clarity, confidence, and a teamthey can trust.
And I think between both AMPand PDI, they've got that.
Dr James (05:13):
I know we allow to talk about AMPs, big change as
well on this podcast.
I can edit this part out ifwe're not I can edit it out.
Adam (05:23):
Yeah, you can do, of course.
Uh yeah, uh late last year webecome uh Brown and Brown, part
of Brown and Brown uh insurancenetwork, uh, which is in the US
is a fourth largest broker.
Um so from a day-to-dayperspective, nothing changes.
Um the co-founders, myself,Tom, and the wider team all
remain.
We're still Walmart Pro, westill run it from day to day,
(05:44):
but it just gives us that extraability to you know reach out um
to our global partner uh to uhas and when needed.
So it's uh yeah, quite excitingtimes for us as a business.
Dr James (05:55):
Very good, very good.
I'm sure you're a busy man.
And you know what?
I remember, Adam, just one morething I'm gonna say, and then
we're gonna get into the uh thejuicy part of this podcast, the
meat and potatoes, so to speak,and that is the myth busting,
because that's of course what wepromised and we want to fulfill
on.
Last year, you and I didsomething really interesting
where we offered 10% off yourindemnity uh to anybody who was
(06:20):
a user on the DWI platform uhwith AMP.
So it's important to shout thatout today.
Uh, that actually does stillstand, interestingly, for
anybody listening to thispodcast.
You reach out to Adam or Neeloff the back of this podcast,
I'll be happy to honour that.
Uh, of course, most peoplearen't really going to renew
their policy until aboutSeptember, maybe August time,
(06:41):
I'm gonna say.
But listen, it is worthmentioning there will be some
people out there, and even tokeep in the back of your mind,
because I believe the averageyou'll you guys all know this.
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong,the average indemnity in the UK,
the average fee is what, threeand a half K.
Yeah, so sort of around thatthat mark, yeah.
Ish.
So there's 350 quid saved rightthere for not just a similar
(07:01):
product, but actually one that,well, you know, how can I say
this?
Does things better.
Uh uh, well, at least that'sthe the purpose and the idea,
anyway.
Of course, somebody will justhave to wear that up for
themselves.
But listen, we wouldn't be inbusiness if we didn't think we
were doing the best foreverybody.
Uh, so yeah, certainly uh worthmentioning is that anyway,
guys.
We've teased this enough, we'vedangled the carrot, haven't we,
(07:23):
up until this very point.
Now it's about time that we gotinto myth busting.
And we've narrowed this down toabout five or so, five common
misconceptions or things that wedon't necessarily realize about
our indemnity that are true,but that that that we that yeah,
that unfortunately, mm-ho howcan I say this, maybe can be
improved on, I think it's fairto say.
So, yeah, the balls in yourcourt, Adam and Neel, who would
(07:46):
like to kick things off?
Neel (07:48):
Shall I do the juicy ones?
Shall I act the like the thedentist and Adam act as the uh
the broker?
Dr James (07:55):
Oh, roleplay.
Okay, yeah, just have some fun.
Neel (07:58):
Right, I'm a bit stressed.
Oh, it's been a hard day.
Dr James (08:01):
Wait, are we roleplaying yet or or not?
I've kidded, I've kidded, I'mkidding, go for it.
Neel (08:06):
Uh so I mean, I hear, I mean, I see it from the
dentist's point of view, whichis kind of why uh I feel my
involvement with the team isreally important because I can
give that feedback.
Um one of the questions we usedto get, we don't get it so much
nowadays, but I still thinkit's valid, Adam, is oh,
insurers are always trying toget out of things and they'll
(08:27):
look into the small print.
And if I haven't told you everylittle thing, I actually don't
feel that I'm properly covered,and there's 14 pages of things
that I need to go through.
Whereas with a mutual,everything's covered, uh,
because it's discretionary.
How would you answer that?
Adam (08:42):
I would say be careful with that that that chain of
thought.
Um with insurance, like yourcar insurance, your home
insurance, if you give a fairpresentation of what the risk
is, uh, you should not be introuble when it comes to a claim
or a complaint.
Um so with the um with thediscretionary model, we also
find um they do repudiateclaims, they do chuck things
(09:05):
out, um what and that'ssometimes down to what's
declared, whether that's thehours or sessions.
So I wouldn't say that's astraightforward um or what's
worse, uh issue?
Dr James (09:19):
Yeah, issue.
Neel (09:23):
I I think what what I found is uh being discretionary,
you don't know where you are.
And if you had a James, we likewe talked about cars last time.
I always use the analogy if youhave a nice car, Jaguar,
Porsche, Ferrari, whatever youhave, would you want a
handshake, discretionarycontract, or would you rather
have a piece of paper that saysI'm doing this many miles, this
(09:44):
is how I drive, this is my pastrecord, and there's an ombudsman
if anything goes wrong.
So would you take a handshakefor insurance, or would you
rather have uh a contract accessto and nobody wants a
handshake?
So I I think it's pretty clearonce uh you tell them that.
And and I do find the guys douse their discretion actually,
when something may not be in thepolicy or it's be above and
(10:06):
beyond, when I've reached out tothem, they have really tried
and helped quite a lot of peopleoutside of the scope of the
policy.
So that's why we're, you know,we're really pleased to be part
of the old Med Pro familybecause they have the same
values as us to help dentists.
Adam (10:19):
Sure.
Yeah, I think that's important.
Sorry, I don't I think that'simportant.
There is there is times we gobeyond what's just covered in
the policy because people domake genuine mistakes.
Um so we have got some wordingwithin our policies that if
there are genuine mistakes wherethey may have left out a bit of
detail or uh they didn't notifyus in time, um, that's not an
issue.
We have uh we have clauses inthere which can assist, so which
(10:41):
goes beyond the sort of averageinsurance policy.
Dr James (10:44):
You know what?
Something I was just interestedto know.
Um obviously withnon-discretionary cover versus
discretionary cover, uh so whatyou're saying is in essence is
is there ever a situation, youknow, call this a stupid
question.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
I don't know.
I'm gonna throw it out there.
Is there ever a situation wherenon-discretionary cover does
actually benefit the dentist, orshould they always be looking
(11:06):
for discretionary cover?
Sorry, sorry, sorry, the otherway around.
Is there ever a situation wherethe non-discretionary cover uh
uh sorry, the discretionarycover benefits the dentist
versus non-discretionary cover?
That's what I want to know.
Neel (11:20):
Not that I've seen.
Dr James (11:22):
So they really should be looking for non-discretionary
cover every single time.
Neel (11:26):
I think so.
And logically, again, if thosetwo options are presented to you
and it was a brand new thing,and no other I don't think any
other country or any otherprofession has discretionary
cover as for professionals?
Adam (11:38):
Not as far as I know.
And and I think you touched onit a moment ago, Neel, with um
if you've got your home or yourcar and an asset of worth, would
you sort of take that sort ofhandshake or that discretionary
model?
Probably not.
Dr James (11:53):
Tell me this.
If if you had to lick yourfinger, maybe you have these
stats, maybe you don't, maybe ifyou had to lick your finger and
put it in the air, how manydentists would you say, how many
dentists in the UK would yousay as a proportion or as a
percentage of the population ofdentists have discretionary
cover currently as things stand?
Adam (12:11):
I would I would say many years ago, it was probably 90%,
it's now probably 50-50.
Dr James (12:17):
Still a lot though, right?
50%?
That's a lot, man.
Neel (12:20):
I think it's the older generation, maybe people of my
age who've been with them sinceuni.
Uh busy principals haven't hadto call them too much.
And I had I met a chap onSaturday, same thing.
Busy principal, been with them20 odd years, paying double what
we would charge.
And it's like, oh man, yeah, Ikeep forgetting, and I should do
(12:40):
it every year.
Um, so we just diarise it.
If you know, if you're one ofthose people and your indemnity
is not due, just send us a quickemail.
We'll give you a call the monthbefore.
So I think it's complacencymore than and habit.
Dr James (12:52):
Well, I think I think yeah, there's a component of
that potentially.
I mean, I guess one thing thatI would have believed or
something that I thought wastrue but isn't necessarily true,
is that the the discretionarycover would be cheaper than the
non-discretionary cover, butthat's not even necessarily the
(13:13):
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(15:01):
of this podcast again.
Neel (15:05):
Sorry, Adam, but um with and I've learned this, you know,
I had to learn from scratchreally, because you know I've
got uh being a dentist, I askedall the stupid dentist questions
and uh worked it out as asimpleton that different
categories of dentists can gointo different pots.
So if you have someone with amillion pounds worth of claims
who's relatively high risk, youwon't be put in the same pool of
(15:28):
dentists as Joe Average.
So their big claims don't hitour our premium so much.
Whereas if you're mutual,everything's in one pot.
So if the doctors or thesurgeons or whoever has some big
claims, it has to be sharedamong everybody.
So I think the reason why we'recheaper is because we can put
people into different productsand and separate the risk out.
(15:49):
Would you is that kind ofright, Adam?
Adam (15:51):
Yeah, I would agree.
And um, I think over the yearsas well, some of the mutuals uh
used to collect funds for thelikes of doctors and GPs.
Um what was it, four or fiveyears ago?
Four or five years ago, thoseGPs were uh indemnified by the
NHS, so they lost a big pool ofpremium at the same time.
At the same time, claims costsare going up.
(16:12):
So I think there's possiblybeen a bit of balance in the
books along the way as well.
Dr James (16:17):
There we go.
Okay, I think we've done mythnumber one to deaf, right, guys.
Uh there's we've we've we'vecovered that one for sure.
But listen, that was a juicyone, so it's it's it's
definitely important that wedid.
Let's move on to myth numbertwo.
Neel (16:31):
Okay, let me think of one.
Um as a dentist, um sometimes Ineed a bit of advice or a bit
of help.
It might not be a complaint,but I I kind of get a spider
senses that something'shappening that way.
But I'd rather talk to myfriends because I'm scared that
if I talk to my indemnity, allhappen is I'll just get my
premium put up the next year.
Adam (16:51):
So for some indemnity providers, uh this does carry
additional cost next year.
But I think most indemnifierswho are following good practice
will encourage you to call yourindemnity provider.
Um, early notification andearly advice usually results in
a good outcome.
So we don't if if you called us20, 30 times in one year, we'd
(17:15):
prefer that then you're notcalling us at all when you might
have a little worry here orthere.
Uh call us.
You won't be you won't bepunished on premium.
It's good practice to do so.
Neel (17:24):
I think we've also in one of the first and signed up for
Jason's initiative about um notpenalising people for getting
advice.
Adam (17:33):
Yes, that's right.
Yeah, there's uh I think six orseven indemnity providers who
are in that initiative who umyeah promise basically if if you
call for advice, you're notgonna be uh you know, you're not
gonna have your premiums hikedor any changes to your terms the
next year.
At the end of the day, theearlier you advise us, the
earlier we can give advice andhopefully resolve any uh issue
there may be.
Dr James (17:54):
Nice.
Yeah, because that isdefinitely something that I
heard whispers about whenever Iwas working in the clinic, and I
was never quite no one everseemed really quite sure.
Some people were like, Yeah,they do that 100%, you should
avoid calling them, which isobviously completely
counterproductive if you do haveuh anything that smells like a
complaint, uh, because youdefinitely need advice and you
(18:16):
want guidance to mitigate it inthe moment.
Adam (18:19):
Um I'll put it a bit like this indemnity is your seatbelt,
and the advice and the riskmanagement is how you avoid the
crash.
So um always ask for advice.
Dr James (18:31):
Yeah, boom, there we go.
I love that analogy.
I really, really, really do.
That makes complete sense.
Neel (18:35):
Although I'd be slightly worried if you're calling every
day.
Dr James (18:40):
Well, well, it's uh it's nice to know, I guess, that
someone can, should they soshould should should they wish,
isn't it?
That it's it's good that that'sout there, but um, yeah, that
might be an indicator of uh anindicator of something a little
deeper going on.
Anyway, who knows?
It's not for us to say.
Lovely job, Lee.
Myth number three.
Neel (19:01):
Another one I hear is that uh oh, you you you pay for what
you get, and these insurancecompanies are are too cheap, and
they'll only just put yourprice up once they've got you on
board.
Adam (19:14):
Yeah, that's uh yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, we hear the same.
Um, whether it's an existingclient of ours or someone's come
to us for a quotation, uh, theyoften say, Well, I've found
this £300 cheaper elsewhere.
Um, I'd often go back and justsay, look, it's like anything,
the devil's in the detail.
Why is it cheaper?
(19:34):
Um, are they picking upretroactive cover?
So cover from the past, what isthe basis of cover, claims
made, claims occurrence.
You know, sometimes there'seven excesses involved, not with
too many providers nowadays,but really, really dig down into
the detail because that's whereyou'll find out why there's
such a significant pricedifference.
Dr James (19:54):
Any more to say on that one?
Neel (19:57):
Um I think I think also we've got a three-year price
protection and we've also got an18-month policy.
So that keeps things prettyregular, doesn't it?
Adam (20:07):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, uh what we do is it'sis you don't have to have it.
Um you don't uh it's you're notsort of stuck with it for three
years, but we're doing along-term arrangement where for
three years your price will stayexactly the same, of course, as
long as you don't have uhterrible claims at that time, uh
like anything.
But um, and at the end of thatperiod, we also get uh a number
(20:29):
of three weeks cover up to sixweeks free cover as well.
So it's just rewarding uh yourloyalty to us.
Um and uh, you know, I don'tthink anybody else offers that
kind of cover.
So it's always looking at thedetail and finding out what
additionally that provider canoffer offer you.
Dr James (20:45):
Yeah.
I mean, speaking from thedentist perspective, again, I
mean, for me, it was Idefinitely got anxiety around
about September time when I waslike, man, how much is it gonna
be this year?
Because I literally I know itwas gonna go up, but I I I
wanted to know how much.
Um so yeah, obviously that'sthat's a that's a good thing to
(21:06):
know.
And then just one quick thingon that.
It does obviously your firstfew years, you know, it starts
out, it's very cheap when you'rean FD, right?
And then it goes up, it goes upand then it kind of levels off,
doesn't it?
Good question on that.
Typically, how many years intoyour career does it start to
level off?
Adam (21:21):
Uh usually three to five.
Dr James (21:23):
Really?
And then it's just it becomes acertain amount, and then it's
usually in and around thatamount for the rest of your
career, provided.
Adam (21:32):
So, you know, if you're a general dentist, you'll probably
be sort of at that mark.
And uh, if you go intoimplantology and you become, you
know, you're doing 60-70% ofyour time doing implants,
there's obviously going to be aslight increase there.
But generally, as long asyou're you uh doing sort of the
same thing and you're not havinguh loads of claims, then you'll
be fine.
Dr James (21:53):
Nice.
All right then.
Sounds good to me.
Neel (21:57):
Just following on, Adam, youngsters' prices, especially
with the mutuals, when they uhget them at the bar in the fifth
year, are really quite low, andobviously then they they go up.
That's not necessarily areflection that they're lower
risk, because you could almostargue they're higher risk.
How much of it is the risk andhow much of it is a loss leader
(22:17):
that people use to try and getthat long-term audience?
Adam (22:22):
That's a good question, Neel.
Um, I'm not sure I can answerthat in too much detail because
I'd be making it a bit of aguess.
Um I might might tell someoneafter a yeah, uh a drink or two,
but no, I wouldn't uh wouldn'tlike to comment on that one.
Dr James (22:35):
There we go.
No, it's it's it's aninteresting one, is that for
sure.
Because I and that's funny,because I remember similar thing
with income protection, right?
It's like you can get incomeprotection as a foundation
dentist for 10 pounds, right?
And then of course everybodyforgets that they've got the the
direct debit set up and it goesbang, bang, bang, bang, bang,
like that.
But anyway, not to go too fardown that rabbit hole.
(22:56):
Shall we move on?
Number four.
Neel (22:58):
I suppose the other one that we had, especially when we
first started PDI and before BDAindemnity started, which
changed the landscape a littlebit, dentists were very mindful
of insurance company that wentbust and left everyone a little
bit high and dry.
Um, that doesn't really happenanymore.
But Adam, what was the reasonfor that?
They went into a they had anissue with a different market,
(23:19):
didn't they?
Adam (23:20):
Yeah, I think you're talking of St.
Paul's.
Neel (23:22):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
Adam (23:23):
In the early 2000s.
Um, yeah, effectively they theycome into the market in on an
insurance based product.
Um, and short within about 18months of the them setting up,
um, the capacity, so effectivelythe insurer who sits behind the
product pulled capacity, and atthat time you didn't.
Have another insurer who waseffectively writing business
(23:47):
within that market.
Um, so it left a lot ofindividuals sort of left quite
exposed.
Since then, the insurancemarket in the indemnity field's
matured.
Um, there's probably 15 to 20underwriters uh in the market,
plus you have the FOS who willsupport you in the event of
anything like that happening.
(24:08):
But I mean, nowadays they'rethey're so highly regulated, the
likelihood of that happening isminimal.
Neel (24:15):
Yeah, I don't think the youngsters will remember that
one, but it was probably in theyou know first year or two that
was uh one of the comments.
Uh but yeah, it's a verydifferent landscape now, isn't
it?
Adam (24:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think yeah, you're right.
Probably about 10-15 years ago,there was a lot of skepticism
about going into the insurancemarket, but you know, there's
five or six insurance providersand offering dentists indemnity
now.
So um it's yeah.
Neel (24:38):
And uh the good news, uh James, from our point of view,
our retention rate is is superhigh.
High 90s, Adam?
Adam (24:44):
Yeah, yeah, we renew um, I think 97% of all our policies
year on year.
Um, so yeah, that's uh that'sgreat news.
Um, we'd still like to seemore, but it's it's a good
number.
Dr James (24:56):
Nice.
So low uh turn, I I think theycall it in the the business
world, don't they?
But yes, anyway, uh well,certainly that's indicative uh
uh whether or not someone likesthe product, of course.
The higher the lower the turnrate, the more uh people sort of
satisfied with whatever productthey're getting, um, is a is
definitely the rule in the worldof business.
But yeah, no, that's fine.
(25:17):
So number four, we have nailed,and now on to number five of
these uh how can we say thispertinent myths that we're
talking about before that arepervasive to this this industry
that we need to debunk.
Neel (25:32):
I suppose the other thing I hear when people leave a
mutual is oh, are they gonnahold it against me?
I'm scared that they're notgonna cover me in the path if I
leave them.
So there's a kind of fearfactor of some people have of
leaving the mutuals, feelingthat because obviously the retro
period is with that mutual, uh,that they're not going to be
(25:53):
covered.
But I think also, Adam, we dohave a a clause for that as
well.
Adam (25:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, there's kind of twoparts to that.
The if you leave effectivelywhen you join a mutual, say you
join the mutual in 2010, uh,they write the policy on a
claims occurrence basis.
So you should be covered to thetime you leave them, no matter
when the claim comes in fortreatment.
So if the claim for treatmentcame in now for a period back in
2015, because it's on a claimsand currence basis, you should
(26:21):
be covered.
Um, however, you've still gotthe discretionary uh issue
there.
So what we do is we provide aretroactive date that if the uh
mutual do not doesn't pick upthe policy coverage for that
period, our policy is step in.
So you've not got that riskthere.
Dr James (26:42):
There we go.
Short and sweet, short andsweet.
Okay, cool.
Well, I mean, guys, uh, thankyou so much for sharing your
wisdom on the podcast tonight.
And I think that you know themessage is to me, it's like
whenever we do these podcasts,it's like, okay, it's not
necessarily that we have to gowith one person or another, but
it's just let's make an educatedchoice as to what is best for
(27:03):
us.
And when you put the facts infront of somebody, then they can
decide for themselves howeverthat looks.
And I, in my personal opinion,and I see this in finance all
the time, I feel that if peopleoperated out of perfect
information, they would do ahell of a lot of stuff
differently in their life.
They really, really, reallywould.
And the more we can share thatinformation so people can make
those perfect decisions thatwe're talking about, the better
(27:24):
outcomes that we're gonna get.
That's literally the mission ofthe Dentistry Invest platform
and the Dentist Invest Podcast.
Guys, let's shout out uh AMP.
Where can people reach out toif they want to know more about
anything that we said in thepodcast today?
Neel (27:38):
You can email me at neil at oldmed.co.uk or Facebook or
Instagram or WhatsApp.
Um people find me everywhere.
Dr James (27:47):
Sure.
And Adam soon for you?
Adam (27:50):
Exactly the same, yeah.
Uh my email is simply adam atolmed.co.uk.
Um I'm not as prominent on uhsocial media as Neel but uh
yeah, you can catch me on thatemail.
unknown (27:59):
Okay.
Welcome back to the Dentists Who Invest Podcast
today, and this is a little bitof a different episode because
it is an expose on all thethings that we should know about
indemnity, but they're somehowobfuscated.
So listen up guys because theseare the things that are gonna
be able to save you money andmake sure you're gonna get a
better deal.
I'm joined by Neel Jaiswal andAdam O'Keefe, both of AllMed
(02:03):
Pro.
We're gonna be getting into thedetails and the specifics of
the need-to-know stuff thatpeople just don't share with you
whenever it comes to yourindemnity.
Indemnity myth busting, if youwill.
Looking forward to this episodeas ever.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists who investSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
(02:26):
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then upon completion of
each lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and 5%discount on lab bills for dental
principals, amongst other perksand discounts for members.
(02:48):
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Guys, Indemnity Mythbussen isthe uh name of the game when it
comes to this episode on thepodcast.
And Adam, I know you and I havedone similar-ish stuff to this
before, but there's a lot ofstuff to unravel.
(03:10):
And of course, we're not goingto point fingers today, that's
not what we're here to do.
We're just here to say, hey, doyou know what?
Here's where everybody is,here's how we can do better.
But before we do that, Neel,welcome back to the Dentists Who
Invest podcast.
It's been a three-year hiatus.
Would you believe we need to dobetter than that, don't we?
Neel (03:26):
I know time flies, as I was saying, when you're having
fun, and I've had a couple ofchildren who's kept me busy.
But uh I think I messaged youmaybe last Christmas to say uh
congratulations on how nice itis.
Although we don't talk, becauseyou're uh virtually there, I I
think of you and I see you popup, so it's it's like we're
there.
Um but no, congratulationsagain on everything.
(03:47):
And um I heard there's aconference coming up as well,
which sounds very exciting.
Dr James (03:51):
Oh, hell yeah, hell yeah.
That's on the 9th of May foranybody who's interested.
The Business of DentistryConference, 500 dentists in
attendance in Birmingham.
So yeah, man, it's gonna bereally cool.
And I'm just sorry I didn't uhreach out to you sooner to
invite you because Neel's gonnabe there as well, guys, for what
it's worth, too, uh, which willbe very fun.
Certainly the more the merrier.
(04:11):
But I uh yeah, like I wassaying, I really can't believe
it's been three years.
You know, it's funny becausesome people you just talk to
them a little bit, and threeyears, you just pick up where
you left off.
It's almost like no timepassed, isn't it?
So I I I definitely feel likethat for sure.
But you know what?
I think before we just jumpinto the myth busting, uh, which
is obviously the uh the thepoint of this episode, uh you
(04:32):
guys wanted to announcesomething, didn't you?
Because Adam, you've had a fewthings move around with AMP, and
now you and Neel work togetherin a different capacity.
Uh interested to know more onthat.
Adam (04:41):
Yeah, Neel and uh PDI have worked closely with AMP for
sort of four or five years now.
Uh we worked on co-events,webinars, training sessions, and
we're always working.
Um, well, we just we just seemto work together.
So from from the beginning ofthe month, um PDI have now
joined forces with AllMed Pro.
Um so it's really exciting.
(05:03):
Um from our perspective, thesimple reason was dentists want
clarity, confidence, and a teamthey can trust.
And I think between both AMPand PDI, they've got that.
Dr James (05:13):
I know we allow to talk about AMPs, big change as
well on this podcast.
I can edit this part out ifwe're not I can edit it out.
Adam (05:23):
Yeah, you can do, of course.
Uh yeah, uh late last year webecome uh Brown and Brown, part
of Brown and Brown uh insurancenetwork, uh, which is in the US
is a fourth largest broker.
Um so from a day-to-dayperspective, nothing changes.
Um the co-founders, myself,Tom, and the wider team all
remain.
We're still Walmart Pro, westill run it from day to day,
(05:44):
but it just gives us that extraability to you know reach out um
to our global partner uh to uhas and when needed.
So it's uh yeah, quite excitingtimes for us as a business.
Dr James (05:55):
Very good, very good.
I'm sure you're a busy man.
And you know what?
I remember, Adam, just one morething I'm gonna say, and then
we're gonna get into the uh thejuicy part of this podcast, the
meat and potatoes, so to speak,and that is the myth busting,
because that's of course what wepromised and we want to fulfill
on.
Last year, you and I didsomething really interesting
where we offered 10% off yourindemnity uh to anybody who was
(06:20):
a user on the DWI platform uhwith AMP.
So it's important to shout thatout today.
Uh, that actually does stillstand, interestingly, for
anybody listening to thispodcast.
You reach out to Adam or Neeloff the back of this podcast,
I'll be happy to honour that.
Uh, of course, most peoplearen't really going to renew
their policy until aboutSeptember, maybe August time,
(06:41):
I'm gonna say.
But listen, it is worthmentioning there will be some
people out there, and even tokeep in the back of your mind,
because I believe the averageyou'll you guys all know this.
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong,the average indemnity in the UK,
the average fee is what, threeand a half K.
Yeah, so sort of around thatthat mark, yeah.
Ish.
So there's 350 quid saved rightthere for not just a similar
(07:01):
product, but actually one that,well, you know, how can I say
this?
Does things better.
Uh uh, well, at least that'sthe the purpose and the idea,
anyway.
Of course, somebody will justhave to wear that up for
themselves.
But listen, we wouldn't be inbusiness if we didn't think we
were doing the best foreverybody.
Uh, so yeah, certainly uh worthmentioning is that anyway,
guys.
We've teased this enough, we'vedangled the carrot, haven't we,
(07:23):
up until this very point.
Now it's about time that we gotinto myth busting.
And we've narrowed this down toabout five or so, five common
misconceptions or things that wedon't necessarily realize about
our indemnity that are true,but that that that we that yeah,
that unfortunately, mm-ho howcan I say this, maybe can be
improved on, I think it's fairto say.
So, yeah, the balls in yourcourt, Adam and Neel, who would
(07:46):
like to kick things off?
Neel (07:48):
Shall I do the juicy ones?
Shall I act the like the thedentist and Adam act as the uh
the broker?
Dr James (07:55):
Oh, roleplay.
Okay, yeah, just have some fun.
Neel (07:58):
Right, I'm a bit stressed.
Oh, it's been a hard day.
Dr James (08:01):
Wait, are we roleplaying yet or or not?
I've kidded, I've kidded, I'mkidding, go for it.
Neel (08:06):
Uh so I mean, I hear, I mean, I see it from the
dentist's point of view, whichis kind of why uh I feel my
involvement with the team isreally important because I can
give that feedback.
Um one of the questions we usedto get, we don't get it so much
nowadays, but I still thinkit's valid, Adam, is oh,
insurers are always trying toget out of things and they'll
(08:27):
look into the small print.
And if I haven't told you everylittle thing, I actually don't
feel that I'm properly covered,and there's 14 pages of things
that I need to go through.
Whereas with a mutual,everything's covered, uh,
because it's discretionary.
How would you answer that?
Adam (08:42):
I would say be careful with that that that chain of
thought.
Um with insurance, like yourcar insurance, your home
insurance, if you give a fairpresentation of what the risk
is, uh, you should not be introuble when it comes to a claim
or a complaint.
Um so with the um with thediscretionary model, we also
find um they do repudiateclaims, they do chuck things
(09:05):
out, um what and that'ssometimes down to what's
declared, whether that's thehours or sessions.
So I wouldn't say that's astraightforward um or what's
worse, uh issue?
Dr James (09:19):
Yeah, issue.
Neel (09:23):
I I think what what I found is uh being discretionary,
you don't know where you are.
And if you had a James, we likewe talked about cars last time.
I always use the analogy if youhave a nice car, Jaguar,
Porsche, Ferrari, whatever youhave, would you want a
handshake, discretionarycontract, or would you rather
have a piece of paper that saysI'm doing this many miles, this
(09:44):
is how I drive, this is my pastrecord, and there's an ombudsman
if anything goes wrong.
So would you take a handshakefor insurance, or would you
rather have uh a contract accessto and nobody wants a
handshake?
So I I think it's pretty clearonce uh you tell them that.
And and I do find the guys douse their discretion actually,
when something may not be in thepolicy or it's be above and
(10:06):
beyond, when I've reached out tothem, they have really tried
and helped quite a lot of peopleoutside of the scope of the
policy.
So that's why we're, you know,we're really pleased to be part
of the old Med Pro familybecause they have the same
values as us to help dentists.
Adam (10:19):
Sure.
Yeah, I think that's important.
Sorry, I don't I think that'simportant.
There is there is times we gobeyond what's just covered in
the policy because people domake genuine mistakes.
Um so we have got some wordingwithin our policies that if
there are genuine mistakes wherethey may have left out a bit of
detail or uh they didn't notifyus in time, um, that's not an
issue.
We have uh we have clauses inthere which can assist, so which
(10:41):
goes beyond the sort of averageinsurance policy.
Dr James (10:44):
You know what?
Something I was just interestedto know.
Um obviously withnon-discretionary cover versus
discretionary cover, uh so whatyou're saying is in essence is
is there ever a situation, youknow, call this a stupid
question.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
I don't know.
I'm gonna throw it out there.
Is there ever a situation wherenon-discretionary cover does
actually benefit the dentist, orshould they always be looking
(11:06):
for discretionary cover?
Sorry, sorry, sorry, the otherway around.
Is there ever a situation wherethe non-discretionary cover uh
uh sorry, the discretionarycover benefits the dentist
versus non-discretionary cover?
That's what I want to know.
Neel (11:20):
Not that I've seen.
Dr James (11:22):
So they really should be looking for non-discretionary
cover every single time.
Neel (11:26):
I think so.
And logically, again, if thosetwo options are presented to you
and it was a brand new thing,and no other I don't think any
other country or any otherprofession has discretionary
cover as for professionals?
Adam (11:38):
Not as far as I know.
And and I think you touched onit a moment ago, Neel, with um
if you've got your home or yourcar and an asset of worth, would
you sort of take that sort ofhandshake or that discretionary
model?
Probably not.
Dr James (11:53):
Tell me this.
If if you had to lick yourfinger, maybe you have these
stats, maybe you don't, maybe ifyou had to lick your finger and
put it in the air, how manydentists would you say, how many
dentists in the UK would yousay as a proportion or as a
percentage of the population ofdentists have discretionary
cover currently as things stand?
Adam (12:11):
I would I would say many years ago, it was probably 90%,
it's now probably 50-50.
Dr James (12:17):
Still a lot though, right?
50%?
That's a lot, man.
Neel (12:20):
I think it's the older generation, maybe people of my
age who've been with them sinceuni.
Uh busy principals haven't hadto call them too much.
And I had I met a chap onSaturday, same thing.
Busy principal, been with them20 odd years, paying double what
we would charge.
And it's like, oh man, yeah, Ikeep forgetting, and I should do
(12:40):
it every year.
Um, so we just diarise it.
If you know, if you're one ofthose people and your indemnity
is not due, just send us a quickemail.
We'll give you a call the monthbefore.
So I think it's complacencymore than and habit.
Dr James (12:52):
Well, I think I think yeah, there's a component of
that potentially.
I mean, I guess one thing thatI would have believed or
something that I thought wastrue but isn't necessarily true,
is that the the discretionarycover would be cheaper than the
non-discretionary cover, butthat's not even necessarily the
(13:13):
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of this podcast again.
Neel (15:05):
Sorry, Adam, but um with and I've learned this, you know,
I had to learn from scratchreally, because you know I've
got uh being a dentist, I askedall the stupid dentist questions
and uh worked it out as asimpleton that different
categories of dentists can gointo different pots.
So if you have someone with amillion pounds worth of claims
who's relatively high risk, youwon't be put in the same pool of
(15:28):
dentists as Joe Average.
So their big claims don't hitour our premium so much.
Whereas if you're mutual,everything's in one pot.
So if the doctors or thesurgeons or whoever has some big
claims, it has to be sharedamong everybody.
So I think the reason why we'recheaper is because we can put
people into different productsand and separate the risk out.
(15:49):
Would you is that kind ofright, Adam?
Adam (15:51):
Yeah, I would agree.
And um, I think over the yearsas well, some of the mutuals uh
used to collect funds for thelikes of doctors and GPs.
Um what was it, four or fiveyears ago?
Four or five years ago, thoseGPs were uh indemnified by the
NHS, so they lost a big pool ofpremium at the same time.
At the same time, claims costsare going up.
(16:12):
So I think there's possiblybeen a bit of balance in the
books along the way as well.
Dr James (16:17):
There we go.
Okay, I think we've done mythnumber one to deaf, right, guys.
Uh there's we've we've we'vecovered that one for sure.
But listen, that was a juicyone, so it's it's it's
definitely important that wedid.
Let's move on to myth numbertwo.
Neel (16:31):
Okay, let me think of one.
Um as a dentist, um sometimes Ineed a bit of advice or a bit
of help.
It might not be a complaint,but I I kind of get a spider
senses that something'shappening that way.
But I'd rather talk to myfriends because I'm scared that
if I talk to my indemnity, allhappen is I'll just get my
premium put up the next year.
Adam (16:51):
So for some indemnity providers, uh this does carry
additional cost next year.
But I think most indemnifierswho are following good practice
will encourage you to call yourindemnity provider.
Um, early notification andearly advice usually results in
a good outcome.
So we don't if if you called us20, 30 times in one year, we'd
(17:15):
prefer that then you're notcalling us at all when you might
have a little worry here orthere.
Uh call us.
You won't be you won't bepunished on premium.
It's good practice to do so.
Neel (17:24):
I think we've also in one of the first and signed up for
Jason's initiative about um notpenalising people for getting
advice.
Adam (17:33):
Yes, that's right.
Yeah, there's uh I think six orseven indemnity providers who
are in that initiative who umyeah promise basically if if you
call for advice, you're notgonna be uh you know, you're not
gonna have your premiums hikedor any changes to your terms the
next year.
At the end of the day, theearlier you advise us, the
earlier we can give advice andhopefully resolve any uh issue
there may be.
Dr James (17:54):
Nice.
Yeah, because that isdefinitely something that I
heard whispers about whenever Iwas working in the clinic, and I
was never quite no one everseemed really quite sure.
Some people were like, Yeah,they do that 100%, you should
avoid calling them, which isobviously completely
counterproductive if you do haveuh anything that smells like a
complaint, uh, because youdefinitely need advice and you
(18:16):
want guidance to mitigate it inthe moment.
Adam (18:19):
Um I'll put it a bit like this indemnity is your seatbelt,
and the advice and the riskmanagement is how you avoid the
crash.
So um always ask for advice.
Dr James (18:31):
Yeah, boom, there we go.
I love that analogy.
I really, really, really do.
That makes complete sense.
Neel (18:35):
Although I'd be slightly worried if you're calling every
day.
Dr James (18:40):
Well, well, it's uh it's nice to know, I guess, that
someone can, should they soshould should should they wish,
isn't it?
That it's it's good that that'sout there, but um, yeah, that
might be an indicator of uh anindicator of something a little
deeper going on.
Anyway, who knows?
It's not for us to say.
Lovely job, Lee.
Myth number three.
Neel (19:01):
Another one I hear is that uh oh, you you you pay for what
you get, and these insurancecompanies are are too cheap, and
they'll only just put yourprice up once they've got you on
board.
Adam (19:14):
Yeah, that's uh yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, we hear the same.
Um, whether it's an existingclient of ours or someone's come
to us for a quotation, uh, theyoften say, Well, I've found
this £300 cheaper elsewhere.
Um, I'd often go back and justsay, look, it's like anything,
the devil's in the detail.
Why is it cheaper?
(19:34):
Um, are they picking upretroactive cover?
So cover from the past, what isthe basis of cover, claims
made, claims occurrence.
You know, sometimes there'seven excesses involved, not with
too many providers nowadays,but really, really dig down into
the detail because that's whereyou'll find out why there's
such a significant pricedifference.
Dr James (19:54):
Any more to say on that one?
Neel (19:57):
Um I think I think also we've got a three-year price
protection and we've also got an18-month policy.
So that keeps things prettyregular, doesn't it?
Adam (20:07):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, uh what we do is it'sis you don't have to have it.
Um you don't uh it's you're notsort of stuck with it for three
years, but we're doing along-term arrangement where for
three years your price will stayexactly the same, of course, as
long as you don't have uhterrible claims at that time, uh
like anything.
But um, and at the end of thatperiod, we also get uh a number
(20:29):
of three weeks cover up to sixweeks free cover as well.
So it's just rewarding uh yourloyalty to us.
Um and uh, you know, I don'tthink anybody else offers that
kind of cover.
So it's always looking at thedetail and finding out what
additionally that provider canoffer offer you.
Dr James (20:45):
Yeah.
I mean, speaking from thedentist perspective, again, I
mean, for me, it was Idefinitely got anxiety around
about September time when I waslike, man, how much is it gonna
be this year?
Because I literally I know itwas gonna go up, but I I I
wanted to know how much.
Um so yeah, obviously that'sthat's a that's a good thing to
(21:06):
know.
And then just one quick thingon that.
It does obviously your firstfew years, you know, it starts
out, it's very cheap when you'rean FD, right?
And then it goes up, it goes upand then it kind of levels off,
doesn't it?
Good question on that.
Typically, how many years intoyour career does it start to
level off?
Adam (21:21):
Uh usually three to five.
Dr James (21:23):
Really?
And then it's just it becomes acertain amount, and then it's
usually in and around thatamount for the rest of your
career, provided.
Adam (21:32):
So, you know, if you're a general dentist, you'll probably
be sort of at that mark.
And uh, if you go intoimplantology and you become, you
know, you're doing 60-70% ofyour time doing implants,
there's obviously going to be aslight increase there.
But generally, as long asyou're you uh doing sort of the
same thing and you're not havinguh loads of claims, then you'll
be fine.
Dr James (21:53):
Nice.
All right then.
Sounds good to me.
Neel (21:57):
Just following on, Adam, youngsters' prices, especially
with the mutuals, when they uhget them at the bar in the fifth
year, are really quite low, andobviously then they they go up.
That's not necessarily areflection that they're lower
risk, because you could almostargue they're higher risk.
How much of it is the risk andhow much of it is a loss leader
(22:17):
that people use to try and getthat long-term audience?
Adam (22:22):
That's a good question, Neel.
Um, I'm not sure I can answerthat in too much detail because
I'd be making it a bit of aguess.
Um I might might tell someoneafter a yeah, uh a drink or two,
but no, I wouldn't uh wouldn'tlike to comment on that one.
Dr James (22:35):
There we go.
No, it's it's it's aninteresting one, is that for
sure.
Because I and that's funny,because I remember similar thing
with income protection, right?
It's like you can get incomeprotection as a foundation
dentist for 10 pounds, right?
And then of course everybodyforgets that they've got the the
direct debit set up and it goesbang, bang, bang, bang, bang,
like that.
But anyway, not to go too fardown that rabbit hole.
(22:56):
Shall we move on?
Number four.
Neel (22:58):
I suppose the other one that we had, especially when we
first started PDI and before BDAindemnity started, which
changed the landscape a littlebit, dentists were very mindful
of insurance company that wentbust and left everyone a little
bit high and dry.
Um, that doesn't really happenanymore.
But Adam, what was the reasonfor that?
They went into a they had anissue with a different market,
(23:19):
didn't they?
Adam (23:20):
Yeah, I think you're talking of St.
Paul's.
Neel (23:22):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
Adam (23:23):
In the early 2000s.
Um, yeah, effectively they theycome into the market in on an
insurance based product.
Um, and short within about 18months of the them setting up,
um, the capacity, so effectivelythe insurer who sits behind the
product pulled capacity, and atthat time you didn't.
Have another insurer who waseffectively writing business
(23:47):
within that market.
Um, so it left a lot ofindividuals sort of left quite
exposed.
Since then, the insurancemarket in the indemnity field's
matured.
Um, there's probably 15 to 20underwriters uh in the market,
plus you have the FOS who willsupport you in the event of
anything like that happening.
(24:08):
But I mean, nowadays they'rethey're so highly regulated, the
likelihood of that happening isminimal.
Neel (24:15):
Yeah, I don't think the youngsters will remember that
one, but it was probably in theyou know first year or two that
was uh one of the comments.
Uh but yeah, it's a verydifferent landscape now, isn't
it?
Adam (24:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think yeah, you're right.
Probably about 10-15 years ago,there was a lot of skepticism
about going into the insurancemarket, but you know, there's
five or six insurance providersand offering dentists indemnity
now.
So um it's yeah.
Neel (24:38):
And uh the good news, uh James, from our point of view,
our retention rate is is superhigh.
High 90s, Adam?
Adam (24:44):
Yeah, yeah, we renew um, I think 97% of all our policies
year on year.
Um, so yeah, that's uh that'sgreat news.
Um, we'd still like to seemore, but it's it's a good
number.
Dr James (24:56):
Nice.
So low uh turn, I I think theycall it in the the business
world, don't they?
But yes, anyway, uh well,certainly that's indicative uh
uh whether or not someone likesthe product, of course.
The higher the lower the turnrate, the more uh people sort of
satisfied with whatever productthey're getting, um, is a is
definitely the rule in the worldof business.
But yeah, no, that's fine.
(25:17):
So number four, we have nailed,and now on to number five of
these uh how can we say thispertinent myths that we're
talking about before that arepervasive to this this industry
that we need to debunk.
Neel (25:32):
I suppose the other thing I hear when people leave a
mutual is oh, are they gonnahold it against me?
I'm scared that they're notgonna cover me in the path if I
leave them.
So there's a kind of fearfactor of some people have of
leaving the mutuals, feelingthat because obviously the retro
period is with that mutual, uh,that they're not going to be
(25:53):
covered.
But I think also, Adam, we dohave a a clause for that as
well.
Adam (25:58):
Yeah.
So yeah, there's kind of twoparts to that.
The if you leave effectivelywhen you join a mutual, say you
join the mutual in 2010, uh,they write the policy on a
claims occurrence basis.
So you should be covered to thetime you leave them, no matter
when the claim comes in fortreatment.
So if the claim for treatmentcame in now for a period back in
2015, because it's on a claimsand currence basis, you should
(26:21):
be covered.
Um, however, you've still gotthe discretionary uh issue
there.
So what we do is we provide aretroactive date that if the uh
mutual do not doesn't pick upthe policy coverage for that
period, our policy is step in.
So you've not got that riskthere.
Dr James (26:42):
There we go.
Short and sweet, short andsweet.
Okay, cool.
Well, I mean, guys, uh, thankyou so much for sharing your
wisdom on the podcast tonight.
And I think that you know themessage is to me, it's like
whenever we do these podcasts,it's like, okay, it's not
necessarily that we have to gowith one person or another, but
it's just let's make an educatedchoice as to what is best for
(27:03):
us.
And when you put the facts infront of somebody, then they can
decide for themselves howeverthat looks.
And I, in my personal opinion,and I see this in finance all
the time, I feel that if peopleoperated out of perfect
information, they would do ahell of a lot of stuff
differently in their life.
They really, really, reallywould.
And the more we can share thatinformation so people can make
those perfect decisions thatwe're talking about, the better
(27:24):
outcomes that we're gonna get.
That's literally the mission ofthe Dentistry Invest platform
and the Dentist Invest Podcast.
Guys, let's shout out uh AMP.
Where can people reach out toif they want to know more about
anything that we said in thepodcast today?
Neel (27:38):
You can email me at neil at oldmed.co.uk or Facebook or
Instagram or WhatsApp.
Um people find me everywhere.
Dr James (27:47):
Sure.
And Adam soon for you?
Adam (27:50):
Exactly the same, yeah.
Uh my email is simply adam atolmed.co.uk.
Um I'm not as prominent on uhsocial media as Neel but uh
yeah, you can catch me on thatemail.
unknown (27:59):
Okay.
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