June 11, 2026 • 23 mins
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Your accountant should not be a once-a-year tax return machine and your fee should not feel like dead money. We sit down with specialist dental accountant Alliah Hamid to get practical about what “good value” actually looks like for UK dentists, from associates doing self-assessment to principals running a growing dental practice. If you have ever wondered whether you are overpaying tax, missing allowable expenses, or simply not getting answers when you need them, this is a clear route map for the conversation you should be having.
We unpack the mindset shift from cost to investment, then make a sharp distinction between a compliance accountant and an advisory accountant. Alia explains how advisory support works in real life: understanding your goals, spotting changes in your income, keeping up with HMRC changes like Making Tax Digital (MTD), and helping you stay tax efficient without stepping outside the rules. We also talk through why dental-specific knowledge matters, including common associate costs, travel to non-permanent workplaces, education and study, and when working-from-home claims may apply.
Finally, we get blunt about red flags: accountants who hide behind jargon, fail to ask intelligent questions, or stay vague about what is included in their fee. You will leave with a short list of questions to ask your accountant on Monday, plus a clearer idea of what support you should expect as you move from sole trader associate to limited company considerations and ultimately to practice ownership.
———————————————————————
Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Episode Transcript
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Dr James (01:15):
This is a podcast I've wanted to do for so long.
I just haven't had the rightopportunity.
How can we tell our accountantswe're doing a good job?
And how can we know that we'regetting really good value for
money when it comes to payingour subscriptions every year?
But I'm joined today by aspecialist accountant, UK
dentist.
Her name is Alliah Hamid.
We're gonna be covering all ofthat and more.
(01:36):
You can take these into youraccountant on Monday, ask them,
grill them, and make sure thatyou know that you're getting a
really good deal.
Looking forward to this episodeas ever.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
(01:58):
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All of this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then upon completion of
each lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and a5% discount on lab bills for
dental principals, amongst otherperks and discounts for
(02:19):
members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Alliah, we've hyped thispodcast up a little bit.
And you know what?
We need to just say a fewthings before we start.
We're definitely not meaning toignite any controversy for
sure.
But what we do want to do,we're definitely not meaning to
(02:41):
ignite any controversy,definitely not meaning to
diminish uh anybody else outthere, uh, because that's
unprofessional, of course.
But what we do wish to do is wedo wish to elevate people and
their thinking so that we knowthat people are getting the best
deal and educating andeverything else along those
lines.
So, like I say, I don't mean toignite the sparks of
controversy.
I think this is going to be ajuicy episode.
Alliah (03:06):
Thank you, James.
Thank you for having me.
Um so the first thing I wouldsay is that what I'm about to
share is actually from havinglots of different conversations
with associates and also frombeing in the industry for over
20 years.
The first thing I would say isthere's no one size that fits
(03:27):
all.
You know, there are so manydifferent accountants out there,
there's dental specialistaccountants, there are
accountants that um you knowwork with large multi-flight
practice owners, there's not aone size that fits all.
And the other thing is thatwhat I've noticed as associates
tend to focus a lot on cost.
I would say the money that youpay to your accountant, you
(03:51):
shouldn't look at it as a cost.
You should look at it as aninvestment in yourself and in
your business.
So if you're earning £100,000,then what you would pay in terms
of a portion of your fee wouldbe very, very different to if
you were a £1 million multi-freepractice.
So that's something that youreally need to think about.
It's an investment.
(04:12):
And some associates might wantto do it on the cheap and save
them, save the save themselvesfive, six, seven hundred pounds.
And I'd say that's absolutelyokay.
But what are you leaving on thetable?
You might say £500, but if youdon't have the conversation with
your accountant, if youraccountant's not asking you the
(04:32):
right questions, making surethat you're claiming all your
expenses, then you could be endup paying more than more in tax,
like maybe £5,000.
So look at it as an investment.
Dr James (04:45):
Absolutely.
And I love these sort of I lovethese little mindset flips
because I remember being thataccountant.
Sorry, I remember being thatdentist regarding my accountant,
and I remember being like, Howcan I spend the least that is
humanly possible to get thisdone?
Which is completely the wrongmindset because you're saving
pennies, but you're losing outon points, which is an
expression that I really like.
(05:05):
But the thing is, I just didn'tknow how that looked or what
that meant.
I I didn't know enough tojustify the differential in the
value, which is also going to bepartly why this podcast will be
useful too.
Alliah (05:19):
I absolutely, and I think really one important point
to highlight is the tax ruleschange.
So while you know what mighthave been beneficial to you,
maybe you're a sole trader, um,but now that the tax rules have
changed, maybe it's morebeneficial for you to be a
limited company, and vice versa,the tax rules always change,
(05:40):
and an accountant would be ableto advise you because they are
up to date on all the tax rules.
So that is why it's reallyimportant to have an accountant
versus not having an accountant.
And I'll give you a reallyquick story.
I had a conversation with alady a couple of days ago.
She'd be doing herself-assessment herself, you
know, kudos to her for navigatethe HMRC self-assessment
(06:04):
platform herself.
Um, and she was now going to beeligible to register for MTD.
She's like, I just don't have aclue what to do.
And I asked her a few questionsabout her setup, and you know,
she shared some personalinformation and her income has
increased, she's now doing locumwork, she's doing a master's.
And I said to her, Did do youknow you can claim X for X, Y,
(06:29):
and Z?
And she said, No, I didn't knowany of these things.
So already just on a call withan accountant, she she could
actually reduce her taxliability significantly.
And that's a very, very simpleexample of what it means to have
an accountant that asks theright questions rather than
doing things yourself and tryingto save some pennies here and
there.
Dr James (06:49):
Boom, there we go.
Because, well, I mean, what Iwas told back then was whatever
uh money I saved by doing itmyself, you know, I was probably
missing that out in uhexemptions and tax breaks and
everything along those lines.
Uh it when I did do that alsouh personally too.
Uh so yeah, like I say, I'm I'mI'm interested to hear what you
(07:11):
have to say here whenever itcomes to these things that we
can ask our accountantspecifically.
Because again, you know,Alliah, shoot me down, correct
me if I'm wrong.
There are a lot of accountantsout there who will charge you to
do a self-assessment and justnot do these things, these very
basic things as well, correct?
Alliah (07:26):
Yes.
So I want to make a very cleardistinction between the two, and
I might be generalizing here,but just to keep things easy for
the listeners, there are twotypes of accountants.
There's a compliance accountantand there's an advisory
accountant.
Now, a compliance accountant issomebody who you send your
information to, whether it's aCSV file, an Excel spreadsheet,
(07:50):
and they punch into the numbersinto their tax software and they
send you a bill and they go,here you go.
You don't hear from them allyear around, you don't have any
interaction with them, you don'thave any relationship with
them.
You know, this is yourhard-earned money.
You'd want to have somebody asa sounding board that you could
(08:10):
ask questions to.
But in this situation, acompliance accountant just gives
you the tax bill, right?
And you pay them a nominalamount.
Then you have an advisoryaccountant.
They're somebody whounderstands your story.
Where are you today?
Do you want to buy a house?
Do you want to put money into apension?
Are you going to have a baby?
Is your wife working?
(08:31):
Is she not working?
Should you put her out as adirector on your limited
company?
Like he understands where youare in your journey and where
you want to get to, and then headvises you accordingly.
These are the two cleardistinctions.
Now you tell me which one isgoing to be the one that's going
to save you money in tax andmake sure that you're set up
correctly.
A compliance accountant thatgives you your tax bill, or an
(08:54):
advisory accountant thatactually is invested in you,
understands your story,understands your goals, and make
sure you're set up correctlyand claiming all your expenses
and allowances.
Dr James (09:07):
Yeah, well, there we go.
And can you maybe this issomething that uh I don't know
if we can, if you have thisinformation at hand, but I'm
going to throw it out there.
Let's say you've got yourstandard associate, okay?
Uh, and let's say you have anadvisory accountant like you
were saying a second ago, howmuch would you expect typically?
Oh no, if you literally justhad to lick your finger and put
(09:27):
it in the air, and I'm hopingthis isn't a tricky question to
answer.
Uh, how much could thatassociate expect to save, in
your opinion, per year, just bydoing some very basic uh tax uh
you know, very basic HMRCapproved stuff to reduce their
tax bill?
Are you able to say, is that afigure that you're able to give
us?
Like would it be a couplethousand?
Alliah (09:49):
It honestly really depends.
So some associates are reallyclose closed up, and they know
exactly what they can claim.
There might be some anomalysituations that they need
somebody to ask, uh ask aspecific question to.
Like, for example, I have anassociate who did some shadowing
work at a completely differentpractice that wasn't his uh
(10:10):
permanent place of work.
He travelled there back andforth, it was a sizeable
distance, two or three hours,shadowed for a few days, and
then he said to me, Oh, by theway, I spent all this money on
fuel, can I claim it back?
And I said, Yes, absolutely youcan, because it's not your
permanent place of work, and youonly travel there to do your
shadowing for this particularprocedure.
(10:33):
So I think it really depends,but there, like I said, because
the rules are always changingand there's always some
anomalies, having an accountanton board that you can ask those
questions to is invaluable.
Dr James (10:48):
Boom.
Okay, yeah.
I thought that might be trickyto put a figure on, but you've
given us a good idea of how onecan uh how an accountant really
can help us error or add value.
We were originally gonna dofive.
Uh, how can I say this?
Five things that you can askyour accountant.
Was that one of the five, orwas that just us back and forth?
And Alliah, because if thatwasn't one of the five, then
(11:09):
we're gonna give people a bonusone, which we just have, which
will be six today.
Should we count that or not?
Alliah (11:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Compliance versus advisory, I'dsay that's that's a very okay.
Dr James (11:20):
Maybe we can have that as a bonus one.
Let's see how we do within timetoday.
Sounds good.
All right, moving on.
What's the next?
What would you say, in youropinion, is the next red flag or
thing that we could be askingour accountant?
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Alliah (13:29):
If your accounting gives you a particular fee, ask them
what is included in that fee.
If they say it's justcompliance, uh fine.
If it's advisory, if it's taxplanning, if it's you know,
whatever it is, ask them, askthem exactly what is included in
the fee.
Is there software?
(13:50):
Who am I going to be workingwith?
Will I be working with you?
I have had associates come tome saying they're frustrated
because they joined up with oneparticular accountant, but
they've never spoken to themever again.
And because it's like a largefirm, every year they get a
different person who doesn'tunderstand their particular
setup, and they're having toexplain the same thing to them
(14:14):
over and over again.
So ask those questions (14:15):
who am I going to be working with?
If I send a query and who'llrespond, who's going to do my
tax planning?
Because some associates want tobuild that relationship.
They some of them don't care.
Some of them say, look, justgive me my tax bill.
But some of them actually wantthat go-to person, that partner
that they can trust, and theythat person understands a
(14:38):
particular setup.
So ask the right questions, whoam I going to be working with?
What does the fee include?
And how what's included in thatfee?
Is it tax planning?
Is it just compliance?
And how often can I have ameeting with you?
Because some packages it's justonce a year, others are a
little bit more flexible.
Dr James (15:00):
Boom.
Good to know.
And I'm guessing somewhere onthat list, Alliah, what you're
going to say is a dentalspecialist accountant versus
your average accountant as well.
That's one thing to look outfor, or have I what would you
reckon?
Alliah (15:14):
I mean, I I I think for associates in particular, um,
because associates have very avery uh what's the word I'm
looking for, very specific typeof setup in that you know, they
(15:35):
might have NHS income, NHSpension, lab fees, they might
have travel.
Um it's good to work withsomebody who understands all of
those different expenses andunderstand what type of costs
associates are likely to incur.
(15:55):
Because if you understand thebusiness, then you're likely to
ask leading questions, right?
So, for example, I know that alot of associates do education
on the side or they work fromhome quite a lot at the
weekends.
So a question that I always askthem if they don't provide the
information is do you have adedicated office space at home?
(16:16):
Because if they do, and theyspend one day a week in that
office doing admin, treatmentplans, studying, then I would
say you could offset some ofyour working from home costs.
Now, a dental specificaccountant perhaps might not ask
those leading questions.
So just these are the thingsthat I I'm talking about, my own
(16:40):
experience.
So these are the things that anassociate would benefit from by
working with a dental specificaccountant.
That's not to say that allaccountants aren't good and it's
good at all, it's just you knowwhat you're getting with a
dental specific accountant.
Dr James (16:57):
Sure.
And they're bespoke for yoursituation, of course.
And you know what?
Yeah, well, actually, yeah, no,that that that makes complete
sense.
And another thing um I actuallythink is something that I'd
like to ask, and maybe we'regoing off a little a little
off-piste here as well.
I'm gonna say that as youprogress through your career as
(17:18):
an as a dentist, perhaps youstart out self-employed, sole
trader, uh associate, then yougo limited company associate,
then you become a principal,usually operating out of a
limited company as well, andthen you become a multi-practice
owner that actually your needsfrom an accountant change as
well.
Maybe if we could, could wequickly cover that actually?
(17:41):
Because I think that would bereally valuable.
Like what should the soletrader look for versus the
limited company, et cetera, etcetera, in your opinion?
Alliah (17:48):
So when you're setting out on your associate journey,
you're absolutely right.
You perhaps don't need full-onadvisory support.
Maybe you just need a touchpoint once a year to ask some
specific questions.
But when you're a principal,your needs are very different.
You've got payroll, you've gotbookkeeping, you've got you know
(18:11):
staff coming and going, youyou've got costs changing, like
electricity costs areincreasing, payroll costs are
increasing.
You need a very different levelof support.
You need regular regularreports so you can monitor the
performance of your practice.
And because of the complexity,you also need an accountant
(18:32):
that's going to take the time toexplain to you like what's the
profit and loss, what does itlook like?
What does it actually tell you?
Why do you need a cash flow?
What does a cash flow tell you?
So the the needs are very theneeds are very, very diff
different depending on thecomplexity of the situation and
the I guess I'd say that the thethe income the income level.
(18:56):
So an associate that's earning65,000, 70, 80,000 might need a
very different level of advisorythan an associate that's
earning over 150,000.
Because over 150,000, you'dwant your accountant to start
asking you questions because youthen hit the higher tax
bracket, you could be paying upto something like 60% in tax.
(19:17):
So you'd want somebody who'smore invested in you asking you
the right questions so thatyou're not paying you're not
overpaying in tax.
Dr James (19:28):
Makes sense.
And in your opinion, when itcomes to a dental practice, do
you think that every dentalpractice should have those
things that you mentioned asstandard, or is it when you get
to a certain size?
What's your thoughts on that?
Alliah (19:42):
I'd say as standard.
I would say if you're anassociate and you're even
thinking about uh opening up adental practice, build that
relationship.
Because that if that accountantwill do your forecasting and
planning for the dental practiceor the SCOAP that you're going
to set up, they will do all theyou know the financials for you.
(20:05):
They will kind of go on thatjourney with you and you will
trust them.
So I would say if you're anassociate and you're even
thinking about that, you want toown a squat or you want to own
a dental practice, build thatrelationship before you pick the
accountant.
Ask them, would you be able tosupport me in X, Y, and Z?
Would you be able to provideyou know quarterly meeting,
(20:26):
quarterly financial reporting,etc.?
Would you be able to explainthe information in a way that I
can understand it so that Idon't feel a complete idiot?
Because that's really, reallyimportant as well.
Dr James (20:40):
Alright, Alliah, you've given us some really
useful information so far, butnow we're gonna get extra juicy
because in this final remainingamount of time, I want us to
cover Alliah's two biggest withthe remaining two uh how can we
say this points that we have, uhI beg pardon, Alliah's just
shown me three with her fingersthere.
We're gonna have to move fastin this last five minutes, uh,
(21:04):
because we're gonna cover threeof Alliah's biggest red flags
whenever it comes to known ofyour accountants done a great
job.
Over to you, Alliah.
Alliah (21:12):
I would say, I mean, there's loads, but I would say
the top one is that when youhave an introductory call with
an accountant that you'relooking to potentially hire, do
you actually understand whatthey're saying?
Because a lot of accountantsuse jargon.
If you can't understand them,then how are you going to have
to have a relationship where youcan actually trust what they're
(21:35):
saying?
And sometimes if you explain toan accountant, yeah, I don't
know, I don't get it.
Could you explain it to me inmore layman's terms?
They might use differentterminology, but understanding
what they're saying and makingsure that they are breaking
things down in using languagethat you understand is really,
really important.
Secondly, is that do they askintelligent questions?
(21:57):
Do they act are they actuallyinterested in you?
So your income might changefrom one year to the next and
they don't challenge anything.
You might um have put throughsome erroneous expenses, maybe
you've put through, I don'tknow, your holiday, your five
grand holiday back to Dubai, andthey've not challenged it.
(22:20):
Um or they just don't ask youquestions about your situation,
your plans for the future.
I would say that's a red flag.
It's like they just want totake your money and fill in a
box and give you your tax bill.
So they need to ask goodquestions and be interested in
you.
Um, and I think the third oneis that when you ask them what's
(22:41):
included in their fee, they'revery vague.
They're very vague about what'sincluded.
I would say that's also a redflag.
Dr James (22:51):
Bang.
The the the hat trick of redflags from Alliah on top of
what's been a super valuablepodcast already.
Alliah, if anybody wants toreach out to you off the back of
anything that we said today inthe podcast, how are they best
off finding you?
Alliah (23:11):
If you've seen me on any of those platforms, I'm known
as the Tooth Fairy.
And uh my website isswanaccountants.co.uk
This is a podcast I've wanted to do for so long.
I just haven't had the rightopportunity.
How can we tell our accountantswe're doing a good job?
And how can we know that we'regetting really good value for
money when it comes to payingour subscriptions every year?
But I'm joined today by aspecialist accountant, UK
dentist.
Her name is Alliah Hamid.
We're gonna be covering all ofthat and more.
(01:36):
You can take these into youraccountant on Monday, ask them,
grill them, and make sure thatyou know that you're getting a
really good deal.
Looking forward to this episodeas ever.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
(01:58):
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All of this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then upon completion of
each lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and a5% discount on lab bills for
dental principals, amongst otherperks and discounts for
(02:19):
members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Alliah, we've hyped thispodcast up a little bit.
And you know what?
We need to just say a fewthings before we start.
We're definitely not meaning toignite any controversy for
sure.
But what we do want to do,we're definitely not meaning to
(02:41):
ignite any controversy,definitely not meaning to
diminish uh anybody else outthere, uh, because that's
unprofessional, of course.
But what we do wish to do is wedo wish to elevate people and
their thinking so that we knowthat people are getting the best
deal and educating andeverything else along those
lines.
So, like I say, I don't mean toignite the sparks of
controversy.
I think this is going to be ajuicy episode.
Alliah (03:06):
Thank you, James.
Thank you for having me.
Um so the first thing I wouldsay is that what I'm about to
share is actually from havinglots of different conversations
with associates and also frombeing in the industry for over
20 years.
The first thing I would say isthere's no one size that fits
(03:27):
all.
You know, there are so manydifferent accountants out there,
there's dental specialistaccountants, there are
accountants that um you knowwork with large multi-flight
practice owners, there's not aone size that fits all.
And the other thing is thatwhat I've noticed as associates
tend to focus a lot on cost.
I would say the money that youpay to your accountant, you
(03:51):
shouldn't look at it as a cost.
You should look at it as aninvestment in yourself and in
your business.
So if you're earning £100,000,then what you would pay in terms
of a portion of your fee wouldbe very, very different to if
you were a £1 million multi-freepractice.
So that's something that youreally need to think about.
It's an investment.
(04:12):
And some associates might wantto do it on the cheap and save
them, save the save themselvesfive, six, seven hundred pounds.
And I'd say that's absolutelyokay.
But what are you leaving on thetable?
You might say £500, but if youdon't have the conversation with
your accountant, if youraccountant's not asking you the
(04:32):
right questions, making surethat you're claiming all your
expenses, then you could be endup paying more than more in tax,
like maybe £5,000.
So look at it as an investment.
Dr James (04:45):
Absolutely.
And I love these sort of I lovethese little mindset flips
because I remember being thataccountant.
Sorry, I remember being thatdentist regarding my accountant,
and I remember being like, Howcan I spend the least that is
humanly possible to get thisdone?
Which is completely the wrongmindset because you're saving
pennies, but you're losing outon points, which is an
expression that I really like.
(05:05):
But the thing is, I just didn'tknow how that looked or what
that meant.
I I didn't know enough tojustify the differential in the
value, which is also going to bepartly why this podcast will be
useful too.
Alliah (05:19):
I absolutely, and I think really one important point
to highlight is the tax ruleschange.
So while you know what mighthave been beneficial to you,
maybe you're a sole trader, um,but now that the tax rules have
changed, maybe it's morebeneficial for you to be a
limited company, and vice versa,the tax rules always change,
(05:40):
and an accountant would be ableto advise you because they are
up to date on all the tax rules.
So that is why it's reallyimportant to have an accountant
versus not having an accountant.
And I'll give you a reallyquick story.
I had a conversation with alady a couple of days ago.
She'd be doing herself-assessment herself, you
know, kudos to her for navigatethe HMRC self-assessment
(06:04):
platform herself.
Um, and she was now going to beeligible to register for MTD.
She's like, I just don't have aclue what to do.
And I asked her a few questionsabout her setup, and you know,
she shared some personalinformation and her income has
increased, she's now doing locumwork, she's doing a master's.
And I said to her, Did do youknow you can claim X for X, Y,
(06:29):
and Z?
And she said, No, I didn't knowany of these things.
So already just on a call withan accountant, she she could
actually reduce her taxliability significantly.
And that's a very, very simpleexample of what it means to have
an accountant that asks theright questions rather than
doing things yourself and tryingto save some pennies here and
there.
Dr James (06:49):
Boom, there we go.
Because, well, I mean, what Iwas told back then was whatever
uh money I saved by doing itmyself, you know, I was probably
missing that out in uhexemptions and tax breaks and
everything along those lines.
Uh it when I did do that alsouh personally too.
Uh so yeah, like I say, I'm I'mI'm interested to hear what you
(07:11):
have to say here whenever itcomes to these things that we
can ask our accountantspecifically.
Because again, you know,Alliah, shoot me down, correct
me if I'm wrong.
There are a lot of accountantsout there who will charge you to
do a self-assessment and justnot do these things, these very
basic things as well, correct?
Alliah (07:26):
Yes.
So I want to make a very cleardistinction between the two, and
I might be generalizing here,but just to keep things easy for
the listeners, there are twotypes of accountants.
There's a compliance accountantand there's an advisory
accountant.
Now, a compliance accountant issomebody who you send your
information to, whether it's aCSV file, an Excel spreadsheet,
(07:50):
and they punch into the numbersinto their tax software and they
send you a bill and they go,here you go.
You don't hear from them allyear around, you don't have any
interaction with them, you don'thave any relationship with
them.
You know, this is yourhard-earned money.
You'd want to have somebody asa sounding board that you could
(08:10):
ask questions to.
But in this situation, acompliance accountant just gives
you the tax bill, right?
And you pay them a nominalamount.
Then you have an advisoryaccountant.
They're somebody whounderstands your story.
Where are you today?
Do you want to buy a house?
Do you want to put money into apension?
Are you going to have a baby?
Is your wife working?
(08:31):
Is she not working?
Should you put her out as adirector on your limited
company?
Like he understands where youare in your journey and where
you want to get to, and then headvises you accordingly.
These are the two cleardistinctions.
Now you tell me which one isgoing to be the one that's going
to save you money in tax andmake sure that you're set up
correctly.
A compliance accountant thatgives you your tax bill, or an
(08:54):
advisory accountant thatactually is invested in you,
understands your story,understands your goals, and make
sure you're set up correctlyand claiming all your expenses
and allowances.
Dr James (09:07):
Yeah, well, there we go.
And can you maybe this issomething that uh I don't know
if we can, if you have thisinformation at hand, but I'm
going to throw it out there.
Let's say you've got yourstandard associate, okay?
Uh, and let's say you have anadvisory accountant like you
were saying a second ago, howmuch would you expect typically?
Oh no, if you literally justhad to lick your finger and put
(09:27):
it in the air, and I'm hopingthis isn't a tricky question to
answer.
Uh, how much could thatassociate expect to save, in
your opinion, per year, just bydoing some very basic uh tax uh
you know, very basic HMRCapproved stuff to reduce their
tax bill?
Are you able to say, is that afigure that you're able to give
us?
Like would it be a couplethousand?
Alliah (09:49):
It honestly really depends.
So some associates are reallyclose closed up, and they know
exactly what they can claim.
There might be some anomalysituations that they need
somebody to ask, uh ask aspecific question to.
Like, for example, I have anassociate who did some shadowing
work at a completely differentpractice that wasn't his uh
(10:10):
permanent place of work.
He travelled there back andforth, it was a sizeable
distance, two or three hours,shadowed for a few days, and
then he said to me, Oh, by theway, I spent all this money on
fuel, can I claim it back?
And I said, Yes, absolutely youcan, because it's not your
permanent place of work, and youonly travel there to do your
shadowing for this particularprocedure.
(10:33):
So I think it really depends,but there, like I said, because
the rules are always changingand there's always some
anomalies, having an accountanton board that you can ask those
questions to is invaluable.
Dr James (10:48):
Boom.
Okay, yeah.
I thought that might be trickyto put a figure on, but you've
given us a good idea of how onecan uh how an accountant really
can help us error or add value.
We were originally gonna dofive.
Uh, how can I say this?
Five things that you can askyour accountant.
Was that one of the five, orwas that just us back and forth?
And Alliah, because if thatwasn't one of the five, then
(11:09):
we're gonna give people a bonusone, which we just have, which
will be six today.
Should we count that or not?
Alliah (11:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Compliance versus advisory, I'dsay that's that's a very okay.
Dr James (11:20):
Maybe we can have that as a bonus one.
Let's see how we do within timetoday.
Sounds good.
All right, moving on.
What's the next?
What would you say, in youropinion, is the next red flag or
thing that we could be askingour accountant?
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Alliah (13:29):
If your accounting gives you a particular fee, ask them
what is included in that fee.
If they say it's justcompliance, uh fine.
If it's advisory, if it's taxplanning, if it's you know,
whatever it is, ask them, askthem exactly what is included in
the fee.
Is there software?
(13:50):
Who am I going to be workingwith?
Will I be working with you?
I have had associates come tome saying they're frustrated
because they joined up with oneparticular accountant, but
they've never spoken to themever again.
And because it's like a largefirm, every year they get a
different person who doesn'tunderstand their particular
setup, and they're having toexplain the same thing to them
(14:14):
over and over again.
So ask those questions (14:15):
who am I going to be working with?
If I send a query and who'llrespond, who's going to do my
tax planning?
Because some associates want tobuild that relationship.
They some of them don't care.
Some of them say, look, justgive me my tax bill.
But some of them actually wantthat go-to person, that partner
that they can trust, and theythat person understands a
(14:38):
particular setup.
So ask the right questions, whoam I going to be working with?
What does the fee include?
And how what's included in thatfee?
Is it tax planning?
Is it just compliance?
And how often can I have ameeting with you?
Because some packages it's justonce a year, others are a
little bit more flexible.
Dr James (15:00):
Boom.
Good to know.
And I'm guessing somewhere onthat list, Alliah, what you're
going to say is a dentalspecialist accountant versus
your average accountant as well.
That's one thing to look outfor, or have I what would you
reckon?
Alliah (15:14):
I mean, I I I think for associates in particular, um,
because associates have very avery uh what's the word I'm
looking for, very specific typeof setup in that you know, they
(15:35):
might have NHS income, NHSpension, lab fees, they might
have travel.
Um it's good to work withsomebody who understands all of
those different expenses andunderstand what type of costs
associates are likely to incur.
(15:55):
Because if you understand thebusiness, then you're likely to
ask leading questions, right?
So, for example, I know that alot of associates do education
on the side or they work fromhome quite a lot at the
weekends.
So a question that I always askthem if they don't provide the
information is do you have adedicated office space at home?
(16:16):
Because if they do, and theyspend one day a week in that
office doing admin, treatmentplans, studying, then I would
say you could offset some ofyour working from home costs.
Now, a dental specificaccountant perhaps might not ask
those leading questions.
So just these are the thingsthat I I'm talking about, my own
(16:40):
experience.
So these are the things that anassociate would benefit from by
working with a dental specificaccountant.
That's not to say that allaccountants aren't good and it's
good at all, it's just you knowwhat you're getting with a
dental specific accountant.
Dr James (16:57):
Sure.
And they're bespoke for yoursituation, of course.
And you know what?
Yeah, well, actually, yeah, no,that that that makes complete
sense.
And another thing um I actuallythink is something that I'd
like to ask, and maybe we'regoing off a little a little
off-piste here as well.
I'm gonna say that as youprogress through your career as
(17:18):
an as a dentist, perhaps youstart out self-employed, sole
trader, uh associate, then yougo limited company associate,
then you become a principal,usually operating out of a
limited company as well, andthen you become a multi-practice
owner that actually your needsfrom an accountant change as
well.
Maybe if we could, could wequickly cover that actually?
(17:41):
Because I think that would bereally valuable.
Like what should the soletrader look for versus the
limited company, et cetera, etcetera, in your opinion?
Alliah (17:48):
So when you're setting out on your associate journey,
you're absolutely right.
You perhaps don't need full-onadvisory support.
Maybe you just need a touchpoint once a year to ask some
specific questions.
But when you're a principal,your needs are very different.
You've got payroll, you've gotbookkeeping, you've got you know
(18:11):
staff coming and going, youyou've got costs changing, like
electricity costs areincreasing, payroll costs are
increasing.
You need a very different levelof support.
You need regular regularreports so you can monitor the
performance of your practice.
And because of the complexity,you also need an accountant
(18:32):
that's going to take the time toexplain to you like what's the
profit and loss, what does itlook like?
What does it actually tell you?
Why do you need a cash flow?
What does a cash flow tell you?
So the the needs are very theneeds are very, very diff
different depending on thecomplexity of the situation and
the I guess I'd say that the thethe income the income level.
(18:56):
So an associate that's earning65,000, 70, 80,000 might need a
very different level of advisorythan an associate that's
earning over 150,000.
Because over 150,000, you'dwant your accountant to start
asking you questions because youthen hit the higher tax
bracket, you could be paying upto something like 60% in tax.
(19:17):
So you'd want somebody who'smore invested in you asking you
the right questions so thatyou're not paying you're not
overpaying in tax.
Dr James (19:28):
Makes sense.
And in your opinion, when itcomes to a dental practice, do
you think that every dentalpractice should have those
things that you mentioned asstandard, or is it when you get
to a certain size?
What's your thoughts on that?
Alliah (19:42):
I'd say as standard.
I would say if you're anassociate and you're even
thinking about uh opening up adental practice, build that
relationship.
Because that if that accountantwill do your forecasting and
planning for the dental practiceor the SCOAP that you're going
to set up, they will do all theyou know the financials for you.
(20:05):
They will kind of go on thatjourney with you and you will
trust them.
So I would say if you're anassociate and you're even
thinking about that, you want toown a squat or you want to own
a dental practice, build thatrelationship before you pick the
accountant.
Ask them, would you be able tosupport me in X, Y, and Z?
Would you be able to provideyou know quarterly meeting,
(20:26):
quarterly financial reporting,etc.?
Would you be able to explainthe information in a way that I
can understand it so that Idon't feel a complete idiot?
Because that's really, reallyimportant as well.
Dr James (20:40):
Alright, Alliah, you've given us some really
useful information so far, butnow we're gonna get extra juicy
because in this final remainingamount of time, I want us to
cover Alliah's two biggest withthe remaining two uh how can we
say this points that we have, uhI beg pardon, Alliah's just
shown me three with her fingersthere.
We're gonna have to move fastin this last five minutes, uh,
(21:04):
because we're gonna cover threeof Alliah's biggest red flags
whenever it comes to known ofyour accountants done a great
job.
Over to you, Alliah.
Alliah (21:12):
I would say, I mean, there's loads, but I would say
the top one is that when youhave an introductory call with
an accountant that you'relooking to potentially hire, do
you actually understand whatthey're saying?
Because a lot of accountantsuse jargon.
If you can't understand them,then how are you going to have
to have a relationship where youcan actually trust what they're
(21:35):
saying?
And sometimes if you explain toan accountant, yeah, I don't
know, I don't get it.
Could you explain it to me inmore layman's terms?
They might use differentterminology, but understanding
what they're saying and makingsure that they are breaking
things down in using languagethat you understand is really,
really important.
Secondly, is that do they askintelligent questions?
(21:57):
Do they act are they actuallyinterested in you?
So your income might changefrom one year to the next and
they don't challenge anything.
You might um have put throughsome erroneous expenses, maybe
you've put through, I don'tknow, your holiday, your five
grand holiday back to Dubai, andthey've not challenged it.
(22:20):
Um or they just don't ask youquestions about your situation,
your plans for the future.
I would say that's a red flag.
It's like they just want totake your money and fill in a
box and give you your tax bill.
So they need to ask goodquestions and be interested in
you.
Um, and I think the third oneis that when you ask them what's
(22:41):
included in their fee, they'revery vague.
They're very vague about what'sincluded.
I would say that's also a redflag.
Dr James (22:51):
Bang.
The the the hat trick of redflags from Alliah on top of
what's been a super valuablepodcast already.
Alliah, if anybody wants toreach out to you off the back of
anything that we said today inthe podcast, how are they best
off finding you?
Alliah (23:11):
If you've seen me on any of those platforms, I'm known
as the Tooth Fairy.
And uh my website isswanaccountants.co.uk
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