March 9, 2026 • 46 mins
UK Dentists: Collect your verifiable CPD for this episode here >>> https://courses.dentistswhoinvest.com/smart-money-members-club
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Ever feel like you’re sprinting from exam to exam with blinkers on, hoping it all “works out” once you qualify? We open that lens wide, exploring how dentists can earn well, earn right, and build real freedom without sacrificing ethics or joy. The heart of the conversation is practical: what actually creates cash flow, how to avoid looking rich while staying broke, and how to turn your clinical skill into long-term choices.
We start with mindset—why short-term student thinking leaves money and experience on the table—and move into the real trade-offs of early success. Quick wins without grounding often inflate ego and spending. We share candid stories about lavish mistakes, the danger of lifestyle creep, and why humility, mentors, and honest peers accelerate maturity. From there, we dig into the finance that matters: assets that pay you (well-run practices, property with sober maths, and diversified global equities), the importance of compounding, and a clear explanation of ACC vs INC funds so dividends don’t die as cash in your account.
Policy risk gets a bright light: shifting pension rules, the return risk of lifetime allowances, NHS schemes versus SIPs, and why ISAs remain criminally underused despite their tax advantages. Rather than preach one path, we pair wrappers with goals and timelines, keeping flexibility front and centre. Then we lay out a roadmap many clinicians can execute. First, become a high-grossing associate by mastering clinical skill and communication. With stronger cash flow, you can compound into ISAs and pensions or move toward ownership. If ownership fits your temperament, we talk hiring, culture, numbers, and modern patient acquisition through Meta ads and search—all aligned with ethical, high-quality care.
The best shift might be the simplest: stop slicing a fixed pie and focus on making the pie bigger. When income grows through skill and assets, you can enjoy life today and still invest for tomorrow. No silver bullets, no hype—just a realistic playbook tested by clinicians who’ve walked it. If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review so more dentists can find practical guidance and build freedom on their terms..
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Dr James (01:43):
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(02:05):
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Naveed (02:24):
So I I feel like kind of rewinding, because anybody
who's missed that first bout, Iwas I was basically saying to
you to yourself that obviouslyin the last six months, I feel
like as a student, I haveleveled up who I am as an
individual, what I stand for,how I study, how I approach
things, and and kind of havingforesight now.
And I think as a student, maybeyou could reflect on this as
(02:46):
well, but we don't really lookbigger picture enough.
Um sometimes we're just caughtin the moment.
We're just like, right, I needto study, I need to get year one
done, I need to get year twodone, and that's it.
We're not really looking atwhat is this leading to, right?
So a lot of the time speakingto those that have been there
and done that is helpful, but wedon't touch base enough with
our peers.
And I think when we understandwhat people are going through
(03:08):
emotionally and mentally thatare in the same boat as you,
then that's where you find thegaps that you might need to put
your energies into.
So I don't know, you tell mewhat was it like at uni for you?
Like, did you have that kind ofexperience as well where maybe
you didn't look bigger pictureor were you different mindset?
Dr James (03:23):
I I I thought completely differently whenever
I was a student.
I just did do not see the samethe world the same way as I do
now at all.
I was so I just saw things withblinkers on.
I was like, we do this, then wedo that, then we qualify, then
we get a job, and blah blahblah.
And when I was a student,right?
I remember when I was astudent, I um I was just like,
(03:44):
man, I don't really have to, I'mjust gonna get this done and
then think about the rest of mylife, you know, because I'm
gonna be chilling after that,I'm gonna be a dentist.
And now I look back and I'mlike, wow, there was so many
opportunities there.
As in that was just acompletely crazy that I thought
like that, because there arekids out there who are 21, 22,
23.
I read a book uh a little whileago and it was called Retired
(04:06):
at 21, right?
And that sounds to a lot ofpeople like, oh, they roll their
eyes and whatever, but it wasjust it was basically just
talking about the new new age ofuh digital businesses and how
that for some of these kids outthere the penny drops so you can
do this stuff incredibly young,like when they're 15, like when
they're 16, and then they havethey go through their rocky
(04:28):
horror cutscene, right?
Okay, you know where he's likerunning up the steps and
punching the meat and themusic's playing da da da da da
da da da da da da da da da da dada, all of that, right?
And you know that scene theysay that every business goes
through that scene, everyindividual goes through that
scene, and it realisticallytakes like four or five years
for somebody to get there, butthey do that because they do
that so young that penny dropswith regards to all that stuff
(04:51):
incredibly early for them, andthey can potentially get
themselves to a stage wherethey've basically just checked
out of the system, they'vethey've exited the matrix at
that age, you know.
And I guess, I guess, withrelevance to this podcast and
with relevance to the audienceand what have you, you know.
It doesn't I I would hope thatwhen people hear that, that
we're not coming across like,how can I say this?
(05:12):
saying that that's somethingthat everybody can aspire
towards.
I hope that's received in thesense that it makes us think to
ourselves, right, like wow, thiscan be done.
Whoa, this is crazy, this isout there.
What can I learn from thoseindividuals rather than just
reject it and just be like,well, that's that's fake,
because it's so easy to do that,isn't it?
It's so easy to be cynicalabout everything.
Naveed (05:31):
Let me let me play devil's advocate here, right?
Do you think that those people,although as much as we as you
know, grass is always green,right?
We all aspire, we wish that wecould have been retired at 21.
Let's be real.
Are they not missing out amassive chunk of life experience
by not going through it?
What do you think?
Dr James (05:52):
I I actually do agree with you because if I was that
age and I was financially free,I would have just been there
were so many experiences that Iwent through that were good for
me.
As in, they made me grow andbecome more ch mature.
And I think if that would havehappened to me too fast, I would
(06:14):
have just been the mostinsufferable human being of all
time, right?
Because it definitely is you'relaw, it it's it's way more
likely that that stuff will goto your head at that age, right?
Like it's just way more likely.
Um I hope I wouldn't have been,but there's definitely a
greater likelihood.
Yeah.
So you are right, like it'sdefinitely not all about the one
(06:37):
lens in terms of that one lens,the lens of wealth and the well
the lens of making money.
You know, it's there's there'sa lot more to us as human
beings.
So yeah, I do agree.
I would I I I I I I wish youcould have, I wish there was
some way that you could havethat, but also have those
experiences that grind you aswell, because that's the
ultimate person right there.
(06:58):
Usually it's one or the other,really.
Not always.
Naveed (07:02):
I think I think you know what it's it's kind of like
it's it's kind of like you know,those people that win the
lottery and they've never beenrich.
And then like they they neverhold on to the money, do they?
There's there's like a study,wasn't there, or a statistic?
Uh, and and I'm going off likeI'm paraphrasing almost here,
but hardly anyone that's everwon the lottery that hasn't come
from money or hasn't graftedfor money has actually retained
(07:23):
that level of financial freedom.
They've always blown it becausethey don't have that life
experience of what to do withit, right?
Now I get it, uh, you know,there is a caveat here, these
youngsters they might have foundthe way to graft quick and
efficiently to then becomeretired at 21.
But you know, going through therough and and and the tough
parts of life is is soimportant.
(07:44):
I remember like when I was sowhen I was about that age, 20
mid-20s, let's say, right?
I I landed a quite a decent jobas a national account manager.
So that's like my previouslife.
And I was getting, you know, ifyou if you add up with the the
car allowances, the housingallowances, and and all the
benefits and bonuses, I wasgetting, you know, beyond a
six-figure salary.
And for somebody in theirmid-20s getting beyond a
(08:05):
six-figure salary back then,what is unheard of, and I didn't
deserve it.
I'll be completely honest withyou.
I think um uh maybe my CV waswas uh overly glamorized.
Um I'm not gonna lie about it.
Half of that probably wasn'teven real, right?
Um, and I'm on your podcastbecause I can I can almost do a
little bit of what you do, whichis which is chat for England,
(08:26):
right?
Or or Ireland in your case,right?
Uh and the and the idea theidea is um that sells.
That really does sell.
So if you if you can do that,people just buy into you for
your personality.
The problem with that was I wasgetting paid a hell of a lot
for doing not so much, and Ikind of thought that was life.
I just thought, well, you know,whatever, I'll just I'll just
(08:46):
roll through the punches, I'llget I'll get what it is, I'll
get paid for it for just beingme.
And a bit like you're saying,it is quite you know, it's it's
an insufferable type ofpersonality because then you
believe you believe the hype.
So you kind of walk around likeyou own the place, um, but then
you don't have the the thewhereabouts or the knowledge of
how to look after that moneybecause you just think it's
going to be endless and youthink you deserve it.
(09:06):
So, because of that, I endedup, I still remember this.
I would eat at the most lavishrestaurants that a guy my age
should not have been eating at.
I was I bought a uh a BMW 3series, I bought it on finance.
The finance payment was stupid,but back then you don't think
about it, you don't think aboutinterest rates, you don't think
about uh terms for payments,nothing.
You just think, well, I canafford three grand a month, I'll
(09:29):
do it.
So there was, you know, youjust you haven't got that life
experience.
So this is what I mean that itis a dangerous path uh to step
on, which is why I'm verypersonally speaking, I'm so
happy and grateful I've gotpeople like yourself and others
in my network that I can learnfrom, whether that's directly or
whether that's from listeningto your podcasts or your
seminars, webinars, whatever itmight be, and other people that
(09:52):
that have said, you know, thisis what we've encountered, this
is where we're at now, and theseare the learnings in between.
And I always say it takes asmart man to learn from you know
your mistakes, but it takes agenius to learn from someone
else's.
Because you have to like burythat prior, right?
You really have to bury thatego and say, Do you know what?
I'm not gonna take that riskand I'm gonna learn.
Well, I didn't do that, I'veonly just started doing that
(10:12):
because, like I say, I've gotpeople like you now uh and
others that that are reallypaving the way.
And and I just wish inhindsight I'd done that when I
was when I was younger, but youknow, that that's how the cookie
crumbles, isn't it?
Dr James (10:22):
Well, well, you know what?
There's one yes to virtuallyeverything that you said there,
and in fact, everything really,you know, that's all true.
And I guess what that remindsme of is it's the older Daj.
It's it's about how much youearn, but it's also about how
you earn it, right?
Like that is the equallyimportant, if not more important
(10:43):
side of the equation, itdoesn't get as much airtime.
So, what I mean, I mean,there's those articles that you
see on the internet from time totime, and it's like middle
class, middle class 200k a year,but broke as hell, right?
Yeah, because what goes comesin goes out.
And what you have to rememberis, right, if you're employed
(11:04):
and you're earning 200 grand,you're only really getting 100k
in your hand, right?
And you know, I say only reallylike that's nothing, but like
that is good money, obviously.
But if you've got two kids inprivate school, if you've got a
nice car and you got a reallynice mortgage on a nice house,
that's gonna go real fast,right?
And then all of a sudden youlook, you have the appearance of
(11:26):
someone who's wealthy.
You probably are wealthy, likeyou are, I guess, but you're
still in that zone, right, whereyou're gonna have to be doing
that for like 20, 30 years toget to the point where you
eventually become financiallyfree.
So I guess what that reminds meof is like, yes, you're earning
your money, um, but we'rebecause of the boat that we're
(11:49):
because of the train that we'reon, or because of the that how
that specific road looks, likethat is the destination.
That's how that looks.
And I'm not saying that youshouldn't do that.
I'm just saying that we want toplay games that we want to win,
right?
Play games that you want theoutcome of, right?
And if you want more, then youmight have to do different
things or see things in adifferent way.
(12:10):
But the trouble is what arethose things?
What's real and what's notreal?
And that's what I see a lotwhenever it comes to finance,
because there's so much hype andcrap like that on Twitter and
what have you.
Um it's genuinely hard todiscern.
Like it's genuinely hard todiscern, you know, and even for
people who and especially forpeople who don't really
necessarily know that much aboutfinance, like they literally
(12:32):
don't know what real looks likeor what normal is.
So they kind of tar everythingwith one brush, and then that
holds them back from making theright decisions because they
just think everything's a scam.
You see people like that aswell all the time, right?
And um, you know, I'm notsaying this in any way, I'm
definitely not saying this in away to like be diminishing of
anybody, you know.
I'm these are observations, andI I'm sharing them from the
(12:53):
point of view uh of the point ofview that they are interesting
observations, and I really thinkthe remedy is just to go and
learn about money and how itworks, because then you've got
more of a nose for this stuff.
Just to circle back to what Iwas saying a second ago, it's
about how much you earn, butit's also about how you earn it,
right?
And then if we kind of takethat to the next level, it's
(13:13):
like, okay, cool.
So let's say that we invest inassets, or let's say that we
have a business which has somesort of recurring revenue model,
then we know that there's gonnabe a certain level of income
that comes in every month thatis not necessarily linked to our
time.
Because those are basically thetwo the only two ways that you
can do that.
I mean, it comes from assets,right?
(13:34):
Like it literally comes fromassets, right?
Um, and if we're gonna talkabout assets that give you cash
flow, there's only really likethree.
I mean, it's either gonna beproperty, a business, or you can
use stocks and funds that way,but it's not advisable because
you really want to roll them upand have them compound.
Have you ever seen on thoseinvesting apps where it's like
(13:54):
they have a fund and then at theend of the funds name and
brackets, it'll say income,it'll say INC or ACC.
Have you noticed that?
And you know what that means?
No, yeah, this is really cool.
This is a brilliant factoid,right?
ACC is an accumulation fund.
So what that means is um whatthat means is that it
(14:17):
automatically reinvests thedividends in your behalf.
Oh income fund will pay you thedividends every month or
whatever, you know,periodically, yeah, and they
will appear as cash in thebalance of your ISA or your
pension or whatever accountthey're in.
(14:37):
So if you want to, if youhaven't, this is a big slip-up
that a lot of people go through,right?
It's like they have their moneyin INC funds, they want their
10% a year from the SP, butwhere the where the actual
breakdown of that 10% comes fromis six percent increase in
value of the stocks, capitalappreciation, and 4%, 3 to 4% is
(14:59):
from the dividends, right?
So you're not getting your 10%unless you're manually
reinvesting the money if youhave an income fund, it's an ACC
fund, right?
But anyway, we went that I justlove that.
I think that was one of thecoolest things ever.
Naveed (15:11):
I don't know.
I had no idea about it.
Dr James (15:13):
Yeah, is it is cool the right word?
I don't know.
I just like little stuff likethat, yeah.
Naveed (15:16):
No, no, no, it is.
I I think because most peoplewouldn't know that I don't I
don't know that.
I mean, well, one thing, onething you did say, right?
Uh whether you meant pension iin in its most raw form, or
whether you meant pension interms of like a future fund.
But I know recently in the UK,whether you've got your you know
your finger in the pulse withthat, but uh the Labour
government have have obviouslymoved pensions now to is it 68,
(15:40):
67 years old that you can onlyclaim like 25% of it, and then
when you're 72 or 74, you canclaim the rest of it.
Dr James (15:46):
I think some I believe that's for the NHS pension.
I think SIPs, as in privatepensions, are still 57.
Okay, but most I think they'reactually currently 55, but they
will be they will be 57 in 2027.
So for most people listening tothis podcast, it's gonna be 57
if we can get it.
Naveed (16:04):
Okay, okay, okay, perfect, perfect.
Because I I've I've always hada qualm with uh with the idea of
uh a pension.
I mean, a pension fund if it'sdone privately, if you're doing
it yourself, I think it's is isuh maybe you will disagree with
this.
Uh maybe you won't.
Um, I guess that's probablyyour shtick, really.
But uh for me, it's very much acase of like the raw form of a
pension.
I I try to educate people thatit's it's not worth it.
(16:26):
Do it yourself.
Manage manage your ownportfolio, manage your own
investments, understand it,learn from the likes of
yourself, learn from all theinformation online.
But as you quite rightly saidbefore, just make sure you're
going through the right avenuesbecause there's so much BS
online nowadays, right?
That people end up beingscammed.
So I think raising theawareness and bringing more
light to it is so important.
But a pension in itself, you'repaying someone to do something
(16:49):
you can do yourself, and thenyou're not getting the return on
it anyway.
So, you know, if you're gonnamanage it, keep it simple, just
do it in the SP and do ityourself.
So I don't I've neverunderstood why people don't do
this.
Why is it so hard for people togrip this?
You tell me.
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(18:48):
of this podcast.
So here's here's what I've seenin my experience.
So you've you're right.
The very first thing to weighup is is it actually the right
thing for us and our goals,right?
And the received wisdom is, asin the wisdom that our parents
would tell us, is everyoneshould have a pension, right?
Yeah, yeah, right.
(19:09):
And perhaps lots of peopleshould, but not everyone of you
ask me.
And there's such there is sucha thing as having a pension too
early in your life, if you doask me.
Interesting, and the reasonwhy, slightly counterintuitive
that you might expect, you know,ver that's slightly
counterintuitive versus what youmight expect someone to say, or
someone maybe like me to say.
(19:30):
Uh, but the reason is you'veheard of the lifetime allowance.
Yes, yes, yes, they don't havethat anymore.
But what that is, is thatbasically when your pension
exceeds a certain certainthreshold of value, you get
taxed very heavily uponwithdrawal of upon
crystallization.
Now, they brought that in 2012.
(19:53):
Okay.
At one point, no, we'd have towe'd have to fact-check this,
but it's something along theselines.
You'd have to get the exactstats, right?
It brought it in initially in2012.
The original threshold at whichit began to become taxed very
heavily was like 2 million.
Now you might think because ofinflation, they increased it
every year.
It actually they actuallydidn't.
It went down to like 1.25 in2017, and then it remained there
(20:17):
for a long time.
Super cool.
Naveed (20:19):
And I'm sorry, what was what was the what was the tax
roughly on that?
Dr James (20:22):
So you said they taxed off that when you when you
would I I believe it wassomething there was like an
extra 25% levy on yourwithdrawals, I believe.
So it basically doubled the taxon money that was over that.
It was it was proportional,right?
So it was only the money thatwas over that limit when you
(20:43):
withdrew.
So if your pension was 2million, the limit was 1 million
for simple math.
If you took out 100k a year,normally you'd it would be taxed
at a certain level, but therewas an extra 25% on that tax, on
on the extra half, basically.
But anyway, it's complicated.
But anyway, so um I was gonnasay, where was I where was I
(21:09):
going with that?
Yeah, so anyway, um, that was athing, it's no longer a thing.
I believe it was was it was itRishi Sunak scrapped it, maybe,
but they will a thousand percentbring that back, right?
Because it's a big old honeytrap, right?
Like you put the money in andthen they've got it, and then if
they change the rules, you youcan't get it.
(21:30):
Like that's literally thepoint, right?
Like it's already in there,yeah.
So if you think about it, ifsomeone everybody's always
encouraged to do that, and thenit'll bring it back, which in my
opinion they categorically willdo at some stage, uh, because
the pension, yeah, it's it's abig there's a lot of money in
pensions, it's too juicy for thegovernment not to not to
interfere with it.
(21:51):
Uh, but yeah, just to roundthat off super duper quick, uh,
all I was gonna say is if youbegin contributing relatively
early in your career, you're waymore likely to exceed that
threshold when it does return,if you ask me.
Naveed (22:04):
I've got a question off that then.
So, so this is this is almostlike a lag, isn't it?
There's a there's almost like alegacy mindset generation to
generation.
We get fed financial advicefrom the generation above us,
the government takes advantageof that, and then I guess we as
a generation will be telling ourkids don't trust the government
and pensions, do it yourself.
(22:26):
Is there now almost a risk thatthey will then get involved
with uh private investmentsbecause people will slowly, I
mean, the generations coming,they will slowly be forced away
from a traditional pension andmore into a maybe a private
portfolio.
Is is there a risk now that thethe government are gonna say,
well, we're losing money herebecause no one's taking a
traditional pension?
We now need to find a way todig into these upcoming
(22:49):
generations.
How can you see that panningup?
Dr James (22:51):
Yeah, well, I mean, if they need money, they'll just
look for places that they cangenerate tax from, right?
There's only there's only twoways a government can make more
money.
They can increase taxes or theycan print more money.
Uh there's only two ways,right?
Uh so it depends how corneredthey are at the time, doesn't
it?
I guess.
And I think everything is onthe cards.
I mean, people talk about thethem rating ISIS and changing
(23:15):
the rules on those.
If you actually look up howmuch wealth in this country is
stored in ISIS versus how muchis in pensions, it's something
like a factor of 50 more inpensions, basically.
Because they've been around forso much longer, right?
Yeah, of course.
And everyone has a pension, orat least lots of people do,
because it's usually arrangedthrough their work.
Um, you got a cat, by the way?
(23:35):
I have two.
Oh, you can do that.
Naveed (23:38):
Yeah, I'm foster I'm fostering cats.
One of them's leaving nextweek.
Dr James (23:40):
So uh Oh, that's nice.
Anyway, not to die.
guess.
Where were we?
What were we just talkingabout?
You said the the the the therewere there's a lot more pensions
than there are uh ISIS proproportionally there's so much
more uh stored in pensionsbecause ISIS ISIS haven't been
around that long ISIS beenaround like 15 10 years before
(24:01):
people call like peps they haddifferent names and it was only
it was only 3k that you couldput in and I believe that you
used to get taxed on thedividends in them um but yeah
this is all obscure financefactoids but yeah ISIS have not
been around that long that'swhat that's why when someone's a
nice and millionaire it's likereally people talk about that
(24:21):
like it's you know it's it'sit's quite impressive right
because you've obviously beenable to grow your money somehow
you know um but yeah ISA has notbeen around that long pensions
have been around forever everyou know and most people have
pensions even if they haven'tset one up themselves because
it's through their workplace andthen the other thing to
remember is that 95 I heard acrazy stat the other day number
(24:44):
of people in how what percentageof people in the UK have opened
in ISA five that's a lot you'veasked you nailed it.
I actually kind of gave it awaythere because I said I said 90
and then I cut myself back soyou probably figured that one
out no I was trying to do it Iwas trying to do it based off of
(25:05):
uh uh the stat you said earlierthat uh a lot more people have
got uh pensions right so orthat's more the the the the
traditional roots I was justthinking surely it can't be I
was gonna go a lot higher to behonest with you because I
thought surely like uh peopleare investing in their futures
but clearly not five flippingpercent of the UK population
have an ISA bananas right um Imust admit though dentists are
(25:29):
better in my experience it'sit's proportionally higher I
think it's maybe like 20 to 30percent uh oh dentists who have
ISIS because well I mean I needto get some actual data on that
you know that's purely anecdotalit's just me licking my finger
and putting it in the air alittle bit uh but the reason I
say that is because when I pickup the phone to people when we
(25:49):
get to talking about this stuffit tends to come up and usually
most people have ISIS but thenagain what you have to remember
is by the sheer fact that wepicked up the phone to each
other there's a good chance thatthey've self-selected as
somebody who's into finance inthe first place and we get to
talking because they're alreadyinterested in it whereas I
probably wouldn't really attractpeople that aren't as much so
(26:11):
yeah it would be good to getsome objective statistics on
that.
But I definitely I definitelyreckon dentists as a rule of
thumb more of themproportionally have ices but
yeah what is categorically trueis that only five percent of the
UK population have ices and onemore teeny thing just to round
that off when we do get totalking about the dentist ices
(26:32):
there's I could probably out ofhaving that conversation maybe
like a hundred two hundred timesprobably probably more probably
probably more than that I don'tknow um I reckon there's only
ever been maybe two three peoplethat I've thought to myself you
have it nailed like this isjust completely optimized as in
this can't physically be anybetter than what you have most
(26:54):
of the time there's something totweak for other people most of
the time whether that be abetter platform or a better fund
or reduce the fees or whateverthere's always a little teeny
teeny teeny thing.
Even if I'm just tell themthere and then that's fine right
but yeah it's so what I'mtrying to say is that of the 5%
who do have ISIS the people whoare using it like to the very
(27:16):
best they possibly can is likemaybe like point on there we are
that is nuts.
Naveed (27:23):
I've I've got to ask you something right and this is
this is something that I guesssome of the younger folk argue I
think getting closer to my agenow I'm gonna be 39 next month
for example so I'm maybe almostsitting on the fence but I don't
know whether I can articulatethis well enough let me try
right so people almost saywhat's the point of investing so
(27:45):
heavily for the future when I'mnot going to use that much
money when I'm older because allof the drive and the passion
and the crazy things I want todo in my in my younger years
that's going to be gone then I'mnot gonna want to drive a
Ferrari when I'm you know 60 or70.
I'm not gonna be bothered aboutliving a lavish lifestyle and
eating at fancy restaurants yeahI might go here and there but
(28:06):
it's it's never going to be asmuch as like you know the
Instagram years right and theTikTok years of like your 20s
and your 30s.
Why should I invest so much inmy future when I can just use it
now enjoy that time and just bemore just comfortable you know
in my in my later life.
So surely you get this thisthis asked how do you deal with
it what's your advice becauseI'm speaking to students all the
(28:27):
damn time and this is this iswhat they're always saying.
So what's your thoughts onthat?
Dr James (28:31):
It's it's the eternal quandary right it's the eternal
quandary yeah that andabsolutely that is categorically
true and I feel like there isI'm actually going to say
something right now that'sslightly counterintuitive and
it's actually a really big waythat you can poke a hole in a
lot of invertic advice out thereright so you think about it
(28:53):
it's kind of like going off thelogic and what we've just said
right it's kind of like you havethis pie right that comes in
every month and that that isyour income right and it's all
about how we divide up the pie.
Right?
So if the pie is this size andwe want to put this much away
for a future but we want to takesome more of the pie and have
(29:14):
some fun in the here and noisethere's two versions of us right
there's here and no and there'sa future the past that already
happened it's gone right so whenit comes to our money it's
either right now or it's at somepoint in the future yeah so
yeah what you're saying is andwhat you're what you're
articulating is that a lot ofpeople feel like they're not
(29:35):
sure how to slice and dice thatpie, right?
That's it.
Naveed (29:38):
Yeah.
Dr James (29:39):
Here's the slightly counterintuitive thing which is
maybe a little controversial butI'm gonna say it anyway.
We love it on this podcast myfriend I think you just have to
be real right you know and it'sit's I'm not saying that this is
easy to do I'm definitely notmaking it out that this is easy
to do at all what is about tocome out of my mouth think about
it that whole debate andargument is precluded on the pie
(30:01):
staying the same size.
Because if the pie does thisthen all of a sudden and what
I'm doing in my hands people whoare listening on the podcast is
I'm I'm making them biggerright we're we're gonna big pie
now big pie.
Naveed (30:16):
Big pie.
Dr James (30:17):
Yeah a big old pie uh then what that means is that you
actually have more you actuallypotentially have enough to do
both and dentists do thatwithout even realizing it right
and here's why they do it here'swhy they do it Navid right
because think about even maxingup your eye make maxing out your
ISI every single year.
2000 pounds and by the waythat's post tax that money right
(30:41):
so that realistically meansyou've earned like 30 to 40
somewhere between those numbersright most people would kind of
never dream of having 40k fromtheir pay slip every month right
spare or their payslip everyyear spare right like that's
just an insane reality for a lotof people and for with Dennis
we're so casual we're just likeoh I max out my ISA just a bit
(31:02):
unsure what to do next orsometimes it's like max out my
ISA max out my pension um wheredoes the money go now you know
what I mean and it's likethey're they're you know I say
this in an ISP sometimes they'relike oh my god I don't know
what to do and I'm like wellthat's great but if we actually
step back here you're crushingit from your ISA alone you're
gonna be a millionaire whenyou're 50 right like and like uh
(31:24):
a lot of people just aren't inthat position right so dentists
have made the pie bigger withoutrealizing they've actually done
this without necessarily evenrealizing right because we don't
really have context so goodoutside of our own lives right
but if you think about it if wefocus on things that will
generate us income whether thatbe our dentistry or whether that
be our assets that actuallymakes the pie bigger and you
(31:45):
potentially have enough for bothnot as easy to do not as easy
to do it's completely precludedon the pie staying the same size
I like that I like that I I itit's such a weird weird way of
thinking that that is sadly howwe all think we just think it's
just like this constant isn't itbut the truth is yeah geez the
(32:07):
pie made it simple the pie madeit simple by the way I just made
that up the pie thing it kindof worked I just I just I was
just like hey it's kind of likea pie you know I knew that I
obviously I I knew the kind ofphilosophy behind it but I was
like I'm I'm gonna take this piething and run with it and it
actually Oh yeah I think you'regonna make a full full episode
on just in a pie yeah I like itthat's that's a good idea that I
(32:29):
for me it's kind of like I'malmost at this weird junction
because because if I had donethis say when I was you know 23
24 finished uni done foundationyear like I feel like I could
almost do that I'm I'mconstantly playing playing this
game in my head where I'm likeyou got 20 years of catching up
to do quick so that you could beat the same level as these
(32:51):
dentists that are actuallycoming out of universities you
know in in I want to be finishedin 2027 for example right so
I'm always thinking like whatcan I do what can I do what can
I do I want to enjoy life but Idon't want to have no money when
I'm old and I ain't got muchtime to work before the back
gives out and the eyes fail meand all the rest of it.
Naveed (33:07):
So I'm constantly thinking what do I do what do I
do so so my game plan iscompletely different and I and
this is why I I like you knowobviously reading into your
stuff that you send uh throughemails and whatnot and then
obviously speaking to youdirectly is is is is like a
blessing.
In my shoes what would you saywithout obviously giving away
too much maybe I don't know Idon't know how you want to
(33:28):
switch it but yeah yeah like gothere but you you tell me like
what what what yeah like becauseokay I'll I'll give you my
perspective on things right soit in a best case scenario I'll
walk you through it very quickly2027 I'll finish university
right I'll come back to the UKI'll be on a PLVE so not the
normal UK foundation trainingstill end up with a performer
number but in that year uh baseincome on NHS work alone is
(33:52):
between 55 and 60k this is allpre-tax yeah plus any private
work you do on top but you'rehardly going to get any of that
any first year anyway let's justsay you go in and you've got
60k pre-tax after that my myidea is to just kind of get down
to mixed practice as quick aspossible.
So go from the 100% NHS down toat least 5050 within first say
(34:13):
three to four years.
And then beyond that I thinkthe character that I am and I
and I completely appreciateanyone listening that yes I'm a
student and you're probablythinking this guy's talking all
this that and the other when itcomes down to reality you're not
gonna do any of this fine Icompletely appreciate that at
all as things go on the gameplan I I hope so but I'm just
saying for those that that arelistening I I know a lot of
(34:34):
people do tend to say oh youain't gonna know till you're
there and and I appreciate thatI completely appreciate I'm not
I'm not slagging those peopleoff that's fine because but
because there is some truth inthat there might come a day you
know in five years from now I'mlike yeah screw this I'm not
doing this right so um with withthe mindset I've got right now
uh that's what I would hope todo and then within the three to
five years of practice I wouldlove to open up my own clinic my
own practice right that'd be Ithink it suits me as an
(34:55):
individual it it uh tickles myfancy in terms of ownership
management marketing business atthe same time doing some sort
of dentistry uh alongside it butthen also it's the hybrid idea
of having an asset that is abusiness that then I could later
on probably sell off anyway andit should do all right in
today's market right again nowcoming back to my situation in
(35:17):
my shoes what would you saycould be done to optimize that
if anything uh what could yousay should be adjusted so that
we can we have a better gameplan moving forward with the
limited time because I'm notgoing to be 21 when I'm done I'm
gonna be like 41 when I'm done.
So what's your thoughts?
Dr James (35:34):
Sure you know what it's a brilliant question and I
have a very clear answer to thatin my head.
But before I say I just want tocaveat what I'm about to say is
that this is definitely not theright path for everyone how can
I say this as well it's it'snot if we're gonna set
everything else aside like alldebates and quandaries and what
(35:59):
people uh how can I say thiswould have about you know
viewing things through this lensthat I'm about to espouse in
just a second people peoplethink that when you talk about
the money side identity that youyou can't it there's there's
always going to be a trade-offwhen it comes to the ethics and
morality side of it like theythink it's like one or the other
they think that those twothings are juxtapositioned or uh
(36:21):
opposing actually I think thosethings can can be the same they
can be the same if you ask meright like if you're doing
really high quality treatmentthat's gonna help someone so
that their mouth is completelyfully rehabilitated well you're
just you're gonna help them tothe high standard you possibly
can plus you're gonna make moneyoff the back of it right you're
gonna make more money becauseyou've given them more value
(36:43):
right so I think that people uhthere is a big belief out there
that some people hold that theythink that when you talk about
the money side of dentistry orit's immediately against yeah
it's just that you have tosacrifice ethics when you do
that which is just not true ifyou ask me right so in that
spirit proceeding on that footwhat I would do if it was me is
(37:08):
I wouldn't very first goal okayis to become shit hard at
dentistry as an associate.
Yeah right really good firstpriority is investment courses
right to get you to that levelright it's the clinical stuff
but it's also how to communicateit too that's the side that
people don't recognize howimportant it is.
High gross and associate thenyou have cash flow then when you
(37:31):
are the high gross andassociate which is amazing then
all of a sudden then you canstart to invest in accounts
invest in accounts yeah now ifyou want to be a high grossing
associate and continue at thatlevel forever fine you'll
probably have a great life andyou'll be able to put that
that's a great way to be there'slots of people that I see who
(37:52):
are like 35 and millionairesthrough doing that.
Fine you know because they puttheir money in an ISA or some of
them got lucky with Bitcoin andstuff like that.
You know it's it's possiblelike it is completely possible
right and that's a nice liferight and then if someone wants
to as you say open a dentalpractice because they want to
have a lifestyle where it'sassociate led easier said than
(38:14):
done it's not easy to do.
It is definitely really hardright but um it it at least you
have some skin in the game forthat possible reality you have
to open a dental practice rightlike you have to take on the
risk I guess basically then whatthe fact that you're not a high
gross an associate means thatyou're when you're working in
your dental practice and yourdental practice needs the
(38:37):
lifeblood of business which iscash that you can step in and do
that quite well you can alsohave the cash flow to get good
team members you also have thecash flow to get good associates
as well and pay them highmargins to keep them in place
and invest in the dentalpractice and then eventually you
can hopefully get it to thestage where it runs itself a
(38:58):
little bit more.
And in order to do that I wouldthen the next level is
investing in the skills ofbusiness the business of
dentistry.
And the things that knowing howdentistry works from a business
perspective but also knowinglittle random things that people
don't know like meta ads andstuff like that.
Like some of the some of theprincipals typically out there
are killing it know how meta adswork because they went and
learned how to do it.
(39:18):
Or like Google PPC and stufflike that.
I don't even know how PPC worksright I don't know how Google
works I've never used it rightbut I would consider myself okay
at meta ads um they can be verygood they can be very useful.
I think that's a key skill forbusiness right there very clever
Mark Zuckerberg right he madethis thing that's not like a
(39:38):
cornerstone of everybody'sbusiness right like if you want
to elevate your business youhave to use his business and
that's why he's so clever rightum so anyway where were we so
that would be that would be thethe roadmap for me basically now
don't get me wrong those arejust things to aim for easier
(39:58):
said than done right but that isin my head people might agree
with me they might disagree withme I'm I'm speaking from the
heart that's what I think and ifwe're looking at it purely from
the point of view of financesfor me that's the quickest path
that I observed I did myself inpart uh and then since having a
(40:20):
million billion trainingconversations with other
dentists who've done these sortsof things over the years you
pick up even more things youknow what I mean uh so yeah
that's the route right therehigh gross and associate and
everything flows from there.
Naveed (40:31):
And by the way or just do high gross and associate.
Oh see this now you're gonnareally get in trouble right
because people You said it yousaid you said 35 million there
and all of a sudden me andeveryone else went right screw
the practice I'm doing this.
Dr James (40:47):
Well you can listen as an a you know um if you're
earning really well as anassociate and you just compound
your money in an ISA with someBitcoin it's not it's it it can
happen right listen I'm notsaying everybody should buy
Bitcoin I'm definitely notsaying that I'm just saying that
that's an example of a methodsome people have used.
You could probably just useyour ISA or your pension and be
a millionaire if you have reallyhigh cash flow and reinvest it
(41:09):
all into some sort of globalequities fund that does well and
you have a few lucky years.
You know what I mean?
I'm not everything I say is notfinancial advice just want to
say that again on this podcastyou know I'm just I'm just
talking about possible methodsuh just get them a little
disclaimer in there.
Naveed (41:25):
But yes anyway um yeah they you don't even necessarily
have to be a high grossmanassociate to do that it just
helps right it's all I'm sayingis that if you stack all these
things that I've just talkedabout you're giving yourself the
greatest chance possible that'sall I'm saying right you don't
have to do all of them maybe youjust do some of them or one or
two of them right and you canprobably do quite well but I
(41:48):
really I'm actually really gladyou asked me that question
because I've never said thatbefore in a podcast like what do
you know what I I I always feellike you know when when people
come on not just not just on youknow your side of things but
just generally everythingeverything just seems so red
tape man like people just don'twant to talk about real life
stuff.
Because I'm not saying you Imean you you you've come out and
(42:10):
quite clearly just given us uha good example non-financial uh
information or advice here againuh just disclaimer but I think
people always get worried to Aask the question because they
don't want to be perceived as acertain person yeah and B the
host doesn't want to ever sayanything because they say well I
don't want to cross the limitshere but we need that I think
the layman and and the peoplethat are listening and I think
(42:31):
myself included we just we wecome on these things we listen
to these things we actually wantadvice we want info right we're
not just sitting there tryingto listen to things we listen to
nonstop we can find on TikTokpeople just saying things within
the limits.
We need that little bit of apush a little bit of advice a
little bit of a uh you knowrecommendation or a suggestion
without being forced or coercedinto it and that in itself can
(42:53):
actually start the journey intosuccess because unless we get it
from someone else it's usuallywe I don't think it catalyzes
the process enough does it so II want to say on my behalf and
probably on behalf of everyonelistening thank you for being
honest thank you for uh havingan opinion and and not just
sitting on the fence and sayingscrew it I'm gonna give the the
the playbook answer thateveryone else gives and be
(43:13):
diplomatic about this because Ithink we've had enough of it and
and and we need more voiceslike yourself that are a bit
unapologetic and and come fromexperience that actually trying
to help people out because wedon't have enough of that.
Dr James (43:24):
So so seriously thanks man really really appreciate
that well listen that's reallykind you know and thank you for
that I think that when you kindof just tell the real of what's
out there that I can I say thisbecause there's so much crap and
like scammy stuff right thatit's there's potential that you
can be tarred with that brush aswell.
Yeah and that's definitely notI'm that's the part the point of
(43:49):
dentist who invest is to sayright okay there are some people
out there who've done reallywell like you can't you can't
deny that like they exist rightso what have they done?
That's all we're doing.
We're documenting that rightand if you know it exists there
must be a way so if you'recynical about every single
method that you hear perhapsyou're tarring some of the
(44:09):
really good stuff with the samebrush right but that it kind of
circles back to what I wassaying earlier.
That's why having someknowledge and how money works
really helps because you cantell what's real and what isn't
real right and what came out ofmy mouth just then is like the
realest real that's that's whatI've how I've met these people
and spoke to them and done thisstuff to a degree myself as well
(44:33):
that that for me that is thebest method and if I could go if
I could go back okay you wantto know definitively that this
is how much I believe and whatin what I said in Dennis and
Vest and what I do if I could goback and tell myself when I was
25 right and go to like the pubwith that guy and tell himself
over some evenings right I'd belike right this is the roadmap
(44:56):
just do these things you mighteven understand what these
things are right now or youmight you might know what they
are but you don't we don't fullyhave the same concepts as to
what they are but just keep thisput it on your wall and just
figure out what this stuff meansand this is the map right here.
Naveed (45:12):
That's genuine what I would say God strike me down
that's amazing man honestly Iand the thing is this is this is
a perfect way to actuallycircle back as you said to that
first point you know retiring at21 and we discussed can you do
it and maintain it and I thinkit's so important that having
knowledge and as you quiterightly said having the
(45:32):
experience of making the moneyand then using it and then
losing it and then rebuilding itthese are such important
factors to have if you actuallywant to be wealthy and I I and
you know Again, getting thatinformation from the likes
yourself and personalexperience.
I think being being too, forexample, investing in your eyes
that too early is a bad thing.
(45:53):
I think being rich too early,in my opinion, can be a bad
thing as well.
If you don't have the rightpeople around you, the right
experiences, etc.
So, you know, getting gettingthat kind of insight from you
then circling back to thebeginning, I think that's that's
a that's such a beautiful wayof like rounding things off in
it.
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(02:05):
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Naveed (02:24):
So I I feel like kind of rewinding, because anybody
who's missed that first bout, Iwas I was basically saying to
you to yourself that obviouslyin the last six months, I feel
like as a student, I haveleveled up who I am as an
individual, what I stand for,how I study, how I approach
things, and and kind of havingforesight now.
And I think as a student, maybeyou could reflect on this as
(02:46):
well, but we don't really lookbigger picture enough.
Um sometimes we're just caughtin the moment.
We're just like, right, I needto study, I need to get year one
done, I need to get year twodone, and that's it.
We're not really looking atwhat is this leading to, right?
So a lot of the time speakingto those that have been there
and done that is helpful, but wedon't touch base enough with
our peers.
And I think when we understandwhat people are going through
(03:08):
emotionally and mentally thatare in the same boat as you,
then that's where you find thegaps that you might need to put
your energies into.
So I don't know, you tell mewhat was it like at uni for you?
Like, did you have that kind ofexperience as well where maybe
you didn't look bigger pictureor were you different mindset?
Dr James (03:23):
I I I thought completely differently whenever
I was a student.
I just did do not see the samethe world the same way as I do
now at all.
I was so I just saw things withblinkers on.
I was like, we do this, then wedo that, then we qualify, then
we get a job, and blah blahblah.
And when I was a student,right?
I remember when I was astudent, I um I was just like,
(03:44):
man, I don't really have to, I'mjust gonna get this done and
then think about the rest of mylife, you know, because I'm
gonna be chilling after that,I'm gonna be a dentist.
And now I look back and I'mlike, wow, there was so many
opportunities there.
As in that was just acompletely crazy that I thought
like that, because there arekids out there who are 21, 22,
23.
I read a book uh a little whileago and it was called Retired
(04:06):
at 21, right?
And that sounds to a lot ofpeople like, oh, they roll their
eyes and whatever, but it wasjust it was basically just
talking about the new new age ofuh digital businesses and how
that for some of these kids outthere the penny drops so you can
do this stuff incredibly young,like when they're 15, like when
they're 16, and then they havethey go through their rocky
(04:28):
horror cutscene, right?
Okay, you know where he's likerunning up the steps and
punching the meat and themusic's playing da da da da da
da da da da da da da da da da dada, all of that, right?
And you know that scene theysay that every business goes
through that scene, everyindividual goes through that
scene, and it realisticallytakes like four or five years
for somebody to get there, butthey do that because they do
that so young that penny dropswith regards to all that stuff
(04:51):
incredibly early for them, andthey can potentially get
themselves to a stage wherethey've basically just checked
out of the system, they'vethey've exited the matrix at
that age, you know.
And I guess, I guess, withrelevance to this podcast and
with relevance to the audienceand what have you, you know.
It doesn't I I would hope thatwhen people hear that, that
we're not coming across like,how can I say this?
(05:12):
saying that that's somethingthat everybody can aspire
towards.
I hope that's received in thesense that it makes us think to
ourselves, right, like wow, thiscan be done.
Whoa, this is crazy, this isout there.
What can I learn from thoseindividuals rather than just
reject it and just be like,well, that's that's fake,
because it's so easy to do that,isn't it?
It's so easy to be cynicalabout everything.
Naveed (05:31):
Let me let me play devil's advocate here, right?
Do you think that those people,although as much as we as you
know, grass is always green,right?
We all aspire, we wish that wecould have been retired at 21.
Let's be real.
Are they not missing out amassive chunk of life experience
by not going through it?
What do you think?
Dr James (05:52):
I I actually do agree with you because if I was that
age and I was financially free,I would have just been there
were so many experiences that Iwent through that were good for
me.
As in, they made me grow andbecome more ch mature.
And I think if that would havehappened to me too fast, I would
(06:14):
have just been the mostinsufferable human being of all
time, right?
Because it definitely is you'relaw, it it's it's way more
likely that that stuff will goto your head at that age, right?
Like it's just way more likely.
Um I hope I wouldn't have been,but there's definitely a
greater likelihood.
Yeah.
So you are right, like it'sdefinitely not all about the one
(06:37):
lens in terms of that one lens,the lens of wealth and the well
the lens of making money.
You know, it's there's there'sa lot more to us as human
beings.
So yeah, I do agree.
I would I I I I I I wish youcould have, I wish there was
some way that you could havethat, but also have those
experiences that grind you aswell, because that's the
ultimate person right there.
(06:58):
Usually it's one or the other,really.
Not always.
Naveed (07:02):
I think I think you know what it's it's kind of like
it's it's kind of like you know,those people that win the
lottery and they've never beenrich.
And then like they they neverhold on to the money, do they?
There's there's like a study,wasn't there, or a statistic?
Uh, and and I'm going off likeI'm paraphrasing almost here,
but hardly anyone that's everwon the lottery that hasn't come
from money or hasn't graftedfor money has actually retained
(07:23):
that level of financial freedom.
They've always blown it becausethey don't have that life
experience of what to do withit, right?
Now I get it, uh, you know,there is a caveat here, these
youngsters they might have foundthe way to graft quick and
efficiently to then becomeretired at 21.
But you know, going through therough and and and the tough
parts of life is is soimportant.
(07:44):
I remember like when I was sowhen I was about that age, 20
mid-20s, let's say, right?
I I landed a quite a decent jobas a national account manager.
So that's like my previouslife.
And I was getting, you know, ifyou if you add up with the the
car allowances, the housingallowances, and and all the
benefits and bonuses, I wasgetting, you know, beyond a
six-figure salary.
And for somebody in theirmid-20s getting beyond a
(08:05):
six-figure salary back then,what is unheard of, and I didn't
deserve it.
I'll be completely honest withyou.
I think um uh maybe my CV waswas uh overly glamorized.
Um I'm not gonna lie about it.
Half of that probably wasn'teven real, right?
Um, and I'm on your podcastbecause I can I can almost do a
little bit of what you do, whichis which is chat for England,
(08:26):
right?
Or or Ireland in your case,right?
Uh and the and the idea theidea is um that sells.
That really does sell.
So if you if you can do that,people just buy into you for
your personality.
The problem with that was I wasgetting paid a hell of a lot
for doing not so much, and Ikind of thought that was life.
I just thought, well, you know,whatever, I'll just I'll just
(08:46):
roll through the punches, I'llget I'll get what it is, I'll
get paid for it for just beingme.
And a bit like you're saying,it is quite you know, it's it's
an insufferable type ofpersonality because then you
believe you believe the hype.
So you kind of walk around likeyou own the place, um, but then
you don't have the the thewhereabouts or the knowledge of
how to look after that moneybecause you just think it's
going to be endless and youthink you deserve it.
(09:06):
So, because of that, I endedup, I still remember this.
I would eat at the most lavishrestaurants that a guy my age
should not have been eating at.
I was I bought a uh a BMW 3series, I bought it on finance.
The finance payment was stupid,but back then you don't think
about it, you don't think aboutinterest rates, you don't think
about uh terms for payments,nothing.
You just think, well, I canafford three grand a month, I'll
(09:29):
do it.
So there was, you know, youjust you haven't got that life
experience.
So this is what I mean that itis a dangerous path uh to step
on, which is why I'm verypersonally speaking, I'm so
happy and grateful I've gotpeople like yourself and others
in my network that I can learnfrom, whether that's directly or
whether that's from listeningto your podcasts or your
seminars, webinars, whatever itmight be, and other people that
(09:52):
that have said, you know, thisis what we've encountered, this
is where we're at now, and theseare the learnings in between.
And I always say it takes asmart man to learn from you know
your mistakes, but it takes agenius to learn from someone
else's.
Because you have to like burythat prior, right?
You really have to bury thatego and say, Do you know what?
I'm not gonna take that riskand I'm gonna learn.
Well, I didn't do that, I'veonly just started doing that
(10:12):
because, like I say, I've gotpeople like you now uh and
others that that are reallypaving the way.
And and I just wish inhindsight I'd done that when I
was when I was younger, but youknow, that that's how the cookie
crumbles, isn't it?
Dr James (10:22):
Well, well, you know what?
There's one yes to virtuallyeverything that you said there,
and in fact, everything really,you know, that's all true.
And I guess what that remindsme of is it's the older Daj.
It's it's about how much youearn, but it's also about how
you earn it, right?
Like that is the equallyimportant, if not more important
(10:43):
side of the equation, itdoesn't get as much airtime.
So, what I mean, I mean,there's those articles that you
see on the internet from time totime, and it's like middle
class, middle class 200k a year,but broke as hell, right?
Yeah, because what goes comesin goes out.
And what you have to rememberis, right, if you're employed
(11:04):
and you're earning 200 grand,you're only really getting 100k
in your hand, right?
And you know, I say only reallylike that's nothing, but like
that is good money, obviously.
But if you've got two kids inprivate school, if you've got a
nice car and you got a reallynice mortgage on a nice house,
that's gonna go real fast,right?
And then all of a sudden youlook, you have the appearance of
(11:26):
someone who's wealthy.
You probably are wealthy, likeyou are, I guess, but you're
still in that zone, right, whereyou're gonna have to be doing
that for like 20, 30 years toget to the point where you
eventually become financiallyfree.
So I guess what that reminds meof is like, yes, you're earning
your money, um, but we'rebecause of the boat that we're
(11:49):
because of the train that we'reon, or because of the that how
that specific road looks, likethat is the destination.
That's how that looks.
And I'm not saying that youshouldn't do that.
I'm just saying that we want toplay games that we want to win,
right?
Play games that you want theoutcome of, right?
And if you want more, then youmight have to do different
things or see things in adifferent way.
(12:10):
But the trouble is what arethose things?
What's real and what's notreal?
And that's what I see a lotwhenever it comes to finance,
because there's so much hype andcrap like that on Twitter and
what have you.
Um it's genuinely hard todiscern.
Like it's genuinely hard todiscern, you know, and even for
people who and especially forpeople who don't really
necessarily know that much aboutfinance, like they literally
(12:32):
don't know what real looks likeor what normal is.
So they kind of tar everythingwith one brush, and then that
holds them back from making theright decisions because they
just think everything's a scam.
You see people like that aswell all the time, right?
And um, you know, I'm notsaying this in any way, I'm
definitely not saying this in away to like be diminishing of
anybody, you know.
I'm these are observations, andI I'm sharing them from the
(12:53):
point of view uh of the point ofview that they are interesting
observations, and I really thinkthe remedy is just to go and
learn about money and how itworks, because then you've got
more of a nose for this stuff.
Just to circle back to what Iwas saying a second ago, it's
about how much you earn, butit's also about how you earn it,
right?
And then if we kind of takethat to the next level, it's
(13:13):
like, okay, cool.
So let's say that we invest inassets, or let's say that we
have a business which has somesort of recurring revenue model,
then we know that there's gonnabe a certain level of income
that comes in every month thatis not necessarily linked to our
time.
Because those are basically thetwo the only two ways that you
can do that.
I mean, it comes from assets,right?
(13:34):
Like it literally comes fromassets, right?
Um, and if we're gonna talkabout assets that give you cash
flow, there's only really likethree.
I mean, it's either gonna beproperty, a business, or you can
use stocks and funds that way,but it's not advisable because
you really want to roll them upand have them compound.
Have you ever seen on thoseinvesting apps where it's like
(13:54):
they have a fund and then at theend of the funds name and
brackets, it'll say income,it'll say INC or ACC.
Have you noticed that?
And you know what that means?
No, yeah, this is really cool.
This is a brilliant factoid,right?
ACC is an accumulation fund.
So what that means is um whatthat means is that it
(14:17):
automatically reinvests thedividends in your behalf.
Oh income fund will pay you thedividends every month or
whatever, you know,periodically, yeah, and they
will appear as cash in thebalance of your ISA or your
pension or whatever accountthey're in.
(14:37):
So if you want to, if youhaven't, this is a big slip-up
that a lot of people go through,right?
It's like they have their moneyin INC funds, they want their
10% a year from the SP, butwhere the where the actual
breakdown of that 10% comes fromis six percent increase in
value of the stocks, capitalappreciation, and 4%, 3 to 4% is
(14:59):
from the dividends, right?
So you're not getting your 10%unless you're manually
reinvesting the money if youhave an income fund, it's an ACC
fund, right?
But anyway, we went that I justlove that.
I think that was one of thecoolest things ever.
Naveed (15:11):
I don't know.
I had no idea about it.
Dr James (15:13):
Yeah, is it is cool the right word?
I don't know.
I just like little stuff likethat, yeah.
Naveed (15:16):
No, no, no, it is.
I I think because most peoplewouldn't know that I don't I
don't know that.
I mean, well, one thing, onething you did say, right?
Uh whether you meant pension iin in its most raw form, or
whether you meant pension interms of like a future fund.
But I know recently in the UK,whether you've got your you know
your finger in the pulse withthat, but uh the Labour
government have have obviouslymoved pensions now to is it 68,
(15:40):
67 years old that you can onlyclaim like 25% of it, and then
when you're 72 or 74, you canclaim the rest of it.
Dr James (15:46):
I think some I believe that's for the NHS pension.
I think SIPs, as in privatepensions, are still 57.
Okay, but most I think they'reactually currently 55, but they
will be they will be 57 in 2027.
So for most people listening tothis podcast, it's gonna be 57
if we can get it.
Naveed (16:04):
Okay, okay, okay, perfect, perfect.
Because I I've I've always hada qualm with uh with the idea of
uh a pension.
I mean, a pension fund if it'sdone privately, if you're doing
it yourself, I think it's is isuh maybe you will disagree with
this.
Uh maybe you won't.
Um, I guess that's probablyyour shtick, really.
But uh for me, it's very much acase of like the raw form of a
pension.
I I try to educate people thatit's it's not worth it.
(16:26):
Do it yourself.
Manage manage your ownportfolio, manage your own
investments, understand it,learn from the likes of
yourself, learn from all theinformation online.
But as you quite rightly saidbefore, just make sure you're
going through the right avenuesbecause there's so much BS
online nowadays, right?
That people end up beingscammed.
So I think raising theawareness and bringing more
light to it is so important.
But a pension in itself, you'repaying someone to do something
(16:49):
you can do yourself, and thenyou're not getting the return on
it anyway.
So, you know, if you're gonnamanage it, keep it simple, just
do it in the SP and do ityourself.
So I don't I've neverunderstood why people don't do
this.
Why is it so hard for people togrip this?
You tell me.
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of this podcast.
So here's here's what I've seenin my experience.
So you've you're right.
The very first thing to weighup is is it actually the right
thing for us and our goals,right?
And the received wisdom is, asin the wisdom that our parents
would tell us, is everyoneshould have a pension, right?
Yeah, yeah, right.
(19:09):
And perhaps lots of peopleshould, but not everyone of you
ask me.
And there's such there is sucha thing as having a pension too
early in your life, if you doask me.
Interesting, and the reasonwhy, slightly counterintuitive
that you might expect, you know,ver that's slightly
counterintuitive versus what youmight expect someone to say, or
someone maybe like me to say.
(19:30):
Uh, but the reason is you'veheard of the lifetime allowance.
Yes, yes, yes, they don't havethat anymore.
But what that is, is thatbasically when your pension
exceeds a certain certainthreshold of value, you get
taxed very heavily uponwithdrawal of upon
crystallization.
Now, they brought that in 2012.
(19:53):
Okay.
At one point, no, we'd have towe'd have to fact-check this,
but it's something along theselines.
You'd have to get the exactstats, right?
It brought it in initially in2012.
The original threshold at whichit began to become taxed very
heavily was like 2 million.
Now you might think because ofinflation, they increased it
every year.
It actually they actuallydidn't.
It went down to like 1.25 in2017, and then it remained there
(20:17):
for a long time.
Super cool.
Naveed (20:19):
And I'm sorry, what was what was the what was the tax
roughly on that?
Dr James (20:22):
So you said they taxed off that when you when you
would I I believe it wassomething there was like an
extra 25% levy on yourwithdrawals, I believe.
So it basically doubled the taxon money that was over that.
It was it was proportional,right?
So it was only the money thatwas over that limit when you
(20:43):
withdrew.
So if your pension was 2million, the limit was 1 million
for simple math.
If you took out 100k a year,normally you'd it would be taxed
at a certain level, but therewas an extra 25% on that tax, on
on the extra half, basically.
But anyway, it's complicated.
But anyway, so um I was gonnasay, where was I where was I
(21:09):
going with that?
Yeah, so anyway, um, that was athing, it's no longer a thing.
I believe it was was it was itRishi Sunak scrapped it, maybe,
but they will a thousand percentbring that back, right?
Because it's a big old honeytrap, right?
Like you put the money in andthen they've got it, and then if
they change the rules, you youcan't get it.
(21:30):
Like that's literally thepoint, right?
Like it's already in there,yeah.
So if you think about it, ifsomeone everybody's always
encouraged to do that, and thenit'll bring it back, which in my
opinion they categorically willdo at some stage, uh, because
the pension, yeah, it's it's abig there's a lot of money in
pensions, it's too juicy for thegovernment not to not to
interfere with it.
(21:51):
Uh, but yeah, just to roundthat off super duper quick, uh,
all I was gonna say is if youbegin contributing relatively
early in your career, you're waymore likely to exceed that
threshold when it does return,if you ask me.
Naveed (22:04):
I've got a question off that then.
So, so this is this is almostlike a lag, isn't it?
There's a there's almost like alegacy mindset generation to
generation.
We get fed financial advicefrom the generation above us,
the government takes advantageof that, and then I guess we as
a generation will be telling ourkids don't trust the government
and pensions, do it yourself.
(22:26):
Is there now almost a risk thatthey will then get involved
with uh private investmentsbecause people will slowly, I
mean, the generations coming,they will slowly be forced away
from a traditional pension andmore into a maybe a private
portfolio.
Is is there a risk now that thethe government are gonna say,
well, we're losing money herebecause no one's taking a
traditional pension?
We now need to find a way todig into these upcoming
(22:49):
generations.
How can you see that panningup?
Dr James (22:51):
Yeah, well, I mean, if they need money, they'll just
look for places that they cangenerate tax from, right?
There's only there's only twoways a government can make more
money.
They can increase taxes or theycan print more money.
Uh there's only two ways,right?
Uh so it depends how corneredthey are at the time, doesn't
it?
I guess.
And I think everything is onthe cards.
I mean, people talk about thethem rating ISIS and changing
(23:15):
the rules on those.
If you actually look up howmuch wealth in this country is
stored in ISIS versus how muchis in pensions, it's something
like a factor of 50 more inpensions, basically.
Because they've been around forso much longer, right?
Yeah, of course.
And everyone has a pension, orat least lots of people do,
because it's usually arrangedthrough their work.
Um, you got a cat, by the way?
(23:35):
I have two.
Oh, you can do that.
Naveed (23:38):
Yeah, I'm foster I'm fostering cats.
One of them's leaving nextweek.
Dr James (23:40):
So uh Oh, that's nice.
Anyway, not to die.
guess.
Where were we?
What were we just talkingabout?
You said the the the the therewere there's a lot more pensions
than there are uh ISIS proproportionally there's so much
more uh stored in pensionsbecause ISIS ISIS haven't been
around that long ISIS beenaround like 15 10 years before
(24:01):
people call like peps they haddifferent names and it was only
it was only 3k that you couldput in and I believe that you
used to get taxed on thedividends in them um but yeah
this is all obscure financefactoids but yeah ISIS have not
been around that long that'swhat that's why when someone's a
nice and millionaire it's likereally people talk about that
(24:21):
like it's you know it's it'sit's quite impressive right
because you've obviously beenable to grow your money somehow
you know um but yeah ISA has notbeen around that long pensions
have been around forever everyou know and most people have
pensions even if they haven'tset one up themselves because
it's through their workplace andthen the other thing to
remember is that 95 I heard acrazy stat the other day number
(24:44):
of people in how what percentageof people in the UK have opened
in ISA five that's a lot you'veasked you nailed it.
I actually kind of gave it awaythere because I said I said 90
and then I cut myself back soyou probably figured that one
out no I was trying to do it Iwas trying to do it based off of
(25:05):
uh uh the stat you said earlierthat uh a lot more people have
got uh pensions right so orthat's more the the the the
traditional roots I was justthinking surely it can't be I
was gonna go a lot higher to behonest with you because I
thought surely like uh peopleare investing in their futures
but clearly not five flippingpercent of the UK population
have an ISA bananas right um Imust admit though dentists are
(25:29):
better in my experience it'sit's proportionally higher I
think it's maybe like 20 to 30percent uh oh dentists who have
ISIS because well I mean I needto get some actual data on that
you know that's purely anecdotalit's just me licking my finger
and putting it in the air alittle bit uh but the reason I
say that is because when I pickup the phone to people when we
(25:49):
get to talking about this stuffit tends to come up and usually
most people have ISIS but thenagain what you have to remember
is by the sheer fact that wepicked up the phone to each
other there's a good chance thatthey've self-selected as
somebody who's into finance inthe first place and we get to
talking because they're alreadyinterested in it whereas I
probably wouldn't really attractpeople that aren't as much so
(26:11):
yeah it would be good to getsome objective statistics on
that.
But I definitely I definitelyreckon dentists as a rule of
thumb more of themproportionally have ices but
yeah what is categorically trueis that only five percent of the
UK population have ices and onemore teeny thing just to round
that off when we do get totalking about the dentist ices
(26:32):
there's I could probably out ofhaving that conversation maybe
like a hundred two hundred timesprobably probably more probably
probably more than that I don'tknow um I reckon there's only
ever been maybe two three peoplethat I've thought to myself you
have it nailed like this isjust completely optimized as in
this can't physically be anybetter than what you have most
(26:54):
of the time there's something totweak for other people most of
the time whether that be abetter platform or a better fund
or reduce the fees or whateverthere's always a little teeny
teeny teeny thing.
Even if I'm just tell themthere and then that's fine right
but yeah it's so what I'mtrying to say is that of the 5%
who do have ISIS the people whoare using it like to the very
(27:16):
best they possibly can is likemaybe like point on there we are
that is nuts.
Naveed (27:23):
I've I've got to ask you something right and this is
this is something that I guesssome of the younger folk argue I
think getting closer to my agenow I'm gonna be 39 next month
for example so I'm maybe almostsitting on the fence but I don't
know whether I can articulatethis well enough let me try
right so people almost saywhat's the point of investing so
(27:45):
heavily for the future when I'mnot going to use that much
money when I'm older because allof the drive and the passion
and the crazy things I want todo in my in my younger years
that's going to be gone then I'mnot gonna want to drive a
Ferrari when I'm you know 60 or70.
I'm not gonna be bothered aboutliving a lavish lifestyle and
eating at fancy restaurants yeahI might go here and there but
(28:06):
it's it's never going to be asmuch as like you know the
Instagram years right and theTikTok years of like your 20s
and your 30s.
Why should I invest so much inmy future when I can just use it
now enjoy that time and just bemore just comfortable you know
in my in my later life.
So surely you get this thisthis asked how do you deal with
it what's your advice becauseI'm speaking to students all the
(28:27):
damn time and this is this iswhat they're always saying.
So what's your thoughts onthat?
Dr James (28:31):
It's it's the eternal quandary right it's the eternal
quandary yeah that andabsolutely that is categorically
true and I feel like there isI'm actually going to say
something right now that'sslightly counterintuitive and
it's actually a really big waythat you can poke a hole in a
lot of invertic advice out thereright so you think about it
(28:53):
it's kind of like going off thelogic and what we've just said
right it's kind of like you havethis pie right that comes in
every month and that that isyour income right and it's all
about how we divide up the pie.
Right?
So if the pie is this size andwe want to put this much away
for a future but we want to takesome more of the pie and have
(29:14):
some fun in the here and noisethere's two versions of us right
there's here and no and there'sa future the past that already
happened it's gone right so whenit comes to our money it's
either right now or it's at somepoint in the future yeah so
yeah what you're saying is andwhat you're what you're
articulating is that a lot ofpeople feel like they're not
(29:35):
sure how to slice and dice thatpie, right?
That's it.
Naveed (29:38):
Yeah.
Dr James (29:39):
Here's the slightly counterintuitive thing which is
maybe a little controversial butI'm gonna say it anyway.
We love it on this podcast myfriend I think you just have to
be real right you know and it'sit's I'm not saying that this is
easy to do I'm definitely notmaking it out that this is easy
to do at all what is about tocome out of my mouth think about
it that whole debate andargument is precluded on the pie
(30:01):
staying the same size.
Because if the pie does thisthen all of a sudden and what
I'm doing in my hands people whoare listening on the podcast is
I'm I'm making them biggerright we're we're gonna big pie
now big pie.
Naveed (30:16):
Big pie.
Dr James (30:17):
Yeah a big old pie uh then what that means is that you
actually have more you actuallypotentially have enough to do
both and dentists do thatwithout even realizing it right
and here's why they do it here'swhy they do it Navid right
because think about even maxingup your eye make maxing out your
ISI every single year.
2000 pounds and by the waythat's post tax that money right
(30:41):
so that realistically meansyou've earned like 30 to 40
somewhere between those numbersright most people would kind of
never dream of having 40k fromtheir pay slip every month right
spare or their payslip everyyear spare right like that's
just an insane reality for a lotof people and for with Dennis
we're so casual we're just likeoh I max out my ISA just a bit
(31:02):
unsure what to do next orsometimes it's like max out my
ISA max out my pension um wheredoes the money go now you know
what I mean and it's likethey're they're you know I say
this in an ISP sometimes they'relike oh my god I don't know
what to do and I'm like wellthat's great but if we actually
step back here you're crushingit from your ISA alone you're
gonna be a millionaire whenyou're 50 right like and like uh
(31:24):
a lot of people just aren't inthat position right so dentists
have made the pie bigger withoutrealizing they've actually done
this without necessarily evenrealizing right because we don't
really have context so goodoutside of our own lives right
but if you think about it if wefocus on things that will
generate us income whether thatbe our dentistry or whether that
be our assets that actuallymakes the pie bigger and you
(31:45):
potentially have enough for bothnot as easy to do not as easy
to do it's completely precludedon the pie staying the same size
I like that I like that I I itit's such a weird weird way of
thinking that that is sadly howwe all think we just think it's
just like this constant isn't itbut the truth is yeah geez the
(32:07):
pie made it simple the pie madeit simple by the way I just made
that up the pie thing it kindof worked I just I just I was
just like hey it's kind of likea pie you know I knew that I
obviously I I knew the kind ofphilosophy behind it but I was
like I'm I'm gonna take this piething and run with it and it
actually Oh yeah I think you'regonna make a full full episode
on just in a pie yeah I like itthat's that's a good idea that I
(32:29):
for me it's kind of like I'malmost at this weird junction
because because if I had donethis say when I was you know 23
24 finished uni done foundationyear like I feel like I could
almost do that I'm I'mconstantly playing playing this
game in my head where I'm likeyou got 20 years of catching up
to do quick so that you could beat the same level as these
(32:51):
dentists that are actuallycoming out of universities you
know in in I want to be finishedin 2027 for example right so
I'm always thinking like whatcan I do what can I do what can
I do I want to enjoy life but Idon't want to have no money when
I'm old and I ain't got muchtime to work before the back
gives out and the eyes fail meand all the rest of it.
Naveed (33:07):
So I'm constantly thinking what do I do what do I
do so so my game plan iscompletely different and I and
this is why I I like you knowobviously reading into your
stuff that you send uh throughemails and whatnot and then
obviously speaking to youdirectly is is is is like a
blessing.
In my shoes what would you saywithout obviously giving away
too much maybe I don't know Idon't know how you want to
(33:28):
switch it but yeah yeah like gothere but you you tell me like
what what what yeah like becauseokay I'll I'll give you my
perspective on things right soit in a best case scenario I'll
walk you through it very quickly2027 I'll finish university
right I'll come back to the UKI'll be on a PLVE so not the
normal UK foundation trainingstill end up with a performer
number but in that year uh baseincome on NHS work alone is
(33:52):
between 55 and 60k this is allpre-tax yeah plus any private
work you do on top but you'rehardly going to get any of that
any first year anyway let's justsay you go in and you've got
60k pre-tax after that my myidea is to just kind of get down
to mixed practice as quick aspossible.
So go from the 100% NHS down toat least 5050 within first say
(34:13):
three to four years.
And then beyond that I thinkthe character that I am and I
and I completely appreciateanyone listening that yes I'm a
student and you're probablythinking this guy's talking all
this that and the other when itcomes down to reality you're not
gonna do any of this fine Icompletely appreciate that at
all as things go on the gameplan I I hope so but I'm just
saying for those that that arelistening I I know a lot of
(34:34):
people do tend to say oh youain't gonna know till you're
there and and I appreciate thatI completely appreciate I'm not
I'm not slagging those peopleoff that's fine because but
because there is some truth inthat there might come a day you
know in five years from now I'mlike yeah screw this I'm not
doing this right so um with withthe mindset I've got right now
uh that's what I would hope todo and then within the three to
five years of practice I wouldlove to open up my own clinic my
own practice right that'd be Ithink it suits me as an
(34:55):
individual it it uh tickles myfancy in terms of ownership
management marketing business atthe same time doing some sort
of dentistry uh alongside it butthen also it's the hybrid idea
of having an asset that is abusiness that then I could later
on probably sell off anyway andit should do all right in
today's market right again nowcoming back to my situation in
(35:17):
my shoes what would you saycould be done to optimize that
if anything uh what could yousay should be adjusted so that
we can we have a better gameplan moving forward with the
limited time because I'm notgoing to be 21 when I'm done I'm
gonna be like 41 when I'm done.
So what's your thoughts?
Dr James (35:34):
Sure you know what it's a brilliant question and I
have a very clear answer to thatin my head.
But before I say I just want tocaveat what I'm about to say is
that this is definitely not theright path for everyone how can
I say this as well it's it'snot if we're gonna set
everything else aside like alldebates and quandaries and what
(35:59):
people uh how can I say thiswould have about you know
viewing things through this lensthat I'm about to espouse in
just a second people peoplethink that when you talk about
the money side identity that youyou can't it there's there's
always going to be a trade-offwhen it comes to the ethics and
morality side of it like theythink it's like one or the other
they think that those twothings are juxtapositioned or uh
(36:21):
opposing actually I think thosethings can can be the same they
can be the same if you ask meright like if you're doing
really high quality treatmentthat's gonna help someone so
that their mouth is completelyfully rehabilitated well you're
just you're gonna help them tothe high standard you possibly
can plus you're gonna make moneyoff the back of it right you're
gonna make more money becauseyou've given them more value
(36:43):
right so I think that people uhthere is a big belief out there
that some people hold that theythink that when you talk about
the money side of dentistry orit's immediately against yeah
it's just that you have tosacrifice ethics when you do
that which is just not true ifyou ask me right so in that
spirit proceeding on that footwhat I would do if it was me is
(37:08):
I wouldn't very first goal okayis to become shit hard at
dentistry as an associate.
Yeah right really good firstpriority is investment courses
right to get you to that levelright it's the clinical stuff
but it's also how to communicateit too that's the side that
people don't recognize howimportant it is.
High gross and associate thenyou have cash flow then when you
(37:31):
are the high gross andassociate which is amazing then
all of a sudden then you canstart to invest in accounts
invest in accounts yeah now ifyou want to be a high grossing
associate and continue at thatlevel forever fine you'll
probably have a great life andyou'll be able to put that
that's a great way to be there'slots of people that I see who
(37:52):
are like 35 and millionairesthrough doing that.
Fine you know because they puttheir money in an ISA or some of
them got lucky with Bitcoin andstuff like that.
You know it's it's possiblelike it is completely possible
right and that's a nice liferight and then if someone wants
to as you say open a dentalpractice because they want to
have a lifestyle where it'sassociate led easier said than
(38:14):
done it's not easy to do.
It is definitely really hardright but um it it at least you
have some skin in the game forthat possible reality you have
to open a dental practice rightlike you have to take on the
risk I guess basically then whatthe fact that you're not a high
gross an associate means thatyou're when you're working in
your dental practice and yourdental practice needs the
(38:37):
lifeblood of business which iscash that you can step in and do
that quite well you can alsohave the cash flow to get good
team members you also have thecash flow to get good associates
as well and pay them highmargins to keep them in place
and invest in the dentalpractice and then eventually you
can hopefully get it to thestage where it runs itself a
(38:58):
little bit more.
And in order to do that I wouldthen the next level is
investing in the skills ofbusiness the business of
dentistry.
And the things that knowing howdentistry works from a business
perspective but also knowinglittle random things that people
don't know like meta ads andstuff like that.
Like some of the some of theprincipals typically out there
are killing it know how meta adswork because they went and
learned how to do it.
(39:18):
Or like Google PPC and stufflike that.
I don't even know how PPC worksright I don't know how Google
works I've never used it rightbut I would consider myself okay
at meta ads um they can be verygood they can be very useful.
I think that's a key skill forbusiness right there very clever
Mark Zuckerberg right he madethis thing that's not like a
(39:38):
cornerstone of everybody'sbusiness right like if you want
to elevate your business youhave to use his business and
that's why he's so clever rightum so anyway where were we so
that would be that would be thethe roadmap for me basically now
don't get me wrong those arejust things to aim for easier
(39:58):
said than done right but that isin my head people might agree
with me they might disagree withme I'm I'm speaking from the
heart that's what I think and ifwe're looking at it purely from
the point of view of financesfor me that's the quickest path
that I observed I did myself inpart uh and then since having a
(40:20):
million billion trainingconversations with other
dentists who've done these sortsof things over the years you
pick up even more things youknow what I mean uh so yeah
that's the route right therehigh gross and associate and
everything flows from there.
Naveed (40:31):
And by the way or just do high gross and associate.
Oh see this now you're gonnareally get in trouble right
because people You said it yousaid you said 35 million there
and all of a sudden me andeveryone else went right screw
the practice I'm doing this.
Dr James (40:47):
Well you can listen as an a you know um if you're
earning really well as anassociate and you just compound
your money in an ISA with someBitcoin it's not it's it it can
happen right listen I'm notsaying everybody should buy
Bitcoin I'm definitely notsaying that I'm just saying that
that's an example of a methodsome people have used.
You could probably just useyour ISA or your pension and be
a millionaire if you have reallyhigh cash flow and reinvest it
(41:09):
all into some sort of globalequities fund that does well and
you have a few lucky years.
You know what I mean?
I'm not everything I say is notfinancial advice just want to
say that again on this podcastyou know I'm just I'm just
talking about possible methodsuh just get them a little
disclaimer in there.
Naveed (41:25):
But yes anyway um yeah they you don't even necessarily
have to be a high grossmanassociate to do that it just
helps right it's all I'm sayingis that if you stack all these
things that I've just talkedabout you're giving yourself the
greatest chance possible that'sall I'm saying right you don't
have to do all of them maybe youjust do some of them or one or
two of them right and you canprobably do quite well but I
(41:48):
really I'm actually really gladyou asked me that question
because I've never said thatbefore in a podcast like what do
you know what I I I always feellike you know when when people
come on not just not just on youknow your side of things but
just generally everythingeverything just seems so red
tape man like people just don'twant to talk about real life
stuff.
Because I'm not saying you Imean you you you've come out and
(42:10):
quite clearly just given us uha good example non-financial uh
information or advice here againuh just disclaimer but I think
people always get worried to Aask the question because they
don't want to be perceived as acertain person yeah and B the
host doesn't want to ever sayanything because they say well I
don't want to cross the limitshere but we need that I think
the layman and and the peoplethat are listening and I think
(42:31):
myself included we just we wecome on these things we listen
to these things we actually wantadvice we want info right we're
not just sitting there tryingto listen to things we listen to
nonstop we can find on TikTokpeople just saying things within
the limits.
We need that little bit of apush a little bit of advice a
little bit of a uh you knowrecommendation or a suggestion
without being forced or coercedinto it and that in itself can
(42:53):
actually start the journey intosuccess because unless we get it
from someone else it's usuallywe I don't think it catalyzes
the process enough does it so II want to say on my behalf and
probably on behalf of everyonelistening thank you for being
honest thank you for uh havingan opinion and and not just
sitting on the fence and sayingscrew it I'm gonna give the the
the playbook answer thateveryone else gives and be
(43:13):
diplomatic about this because Ithink we've had enough of it and
and and we need more voiceslike yourself that are a bit
unapologetic and and come fromexperience that actually trying
to help people out because wedon't have enough of that.
Dr James (43:24):
So so seriously thanks man really really appreciate
that well listen that's reallykind you know and thank you for
that I think that when you kindof just tell the real of what's
out there that I can I say thisbecause there's so much crap and
like scammy stuff right thatit's there's potential that you
can be tarred with that brush aswell.
Yeah and that's definitely notI'm that's the part the point of
(43:49):
dentist who invest is to sayright okay there are some people
out there who've done reallywell like you can't you can't
deny that like they exist rightso what have they done?
That's all we're doing.
We're documenting that rightand if you know it exists there
must be a way so if you'recynical about every single
method that you hear perhapsyou're tarring some of the
(44:09):
really good stuff with the samebrush right but that it kind of
circles back to what I wassaying earlier.
That's why having someknowledge and how money works
really helps because you cantell what's real and what isn't
real right and what came out ofmy mouth just then is like the
realest real that's that's whatI've how I've met these people
and spoke to them and done thisstuff to a degree myself as well
(44:33):
that that for me that is thebest method and if I could go if
I could go back okay you wantto know definitively that this
is how much I believe and whatin what I said in Dennis and
Vest and what I do if I could goback and tell myself when I was
25 right and go to like the pubwith that guy and tell himself
over some evenings right I'd belike right this is the roadmap
(44:56):
just do these things you mighteven understand what these
things are right now or youmight you might know what they
are but you don't we don't fullyhave the same concepts as to
what they are but just keep thisput it on your wall and just
figure out what this stuff meansand this is the map right here.
Naveed (45:12):
That's genuine what I would say God strike me down
that's amazing man honestly Iand the thing is this is this is
a perfect way to actuallycircle back as you said to that
first point you know retiring at21 and we discussed can you do
it and maintain it and I thinkit's so important that having
knowledge and as you quiterightly said having the
(45:32):
experience of making the moneyand then using it and then
losing it and then rebuilding itthese are such important
factors to have if you actuallywant to be wealthy and I I and
you know Again, getting thatinformation from the likes
yourself and personalexperience.
I think being being too, forexample, investing in your eyes
that too early is a bad thing.
(45:53):
I think being rich too early,in my opinion, can be a bad
thing as well.
If you don't have the rightpeople around you, the right
experiences, etc.
So, you know, getting gettingthat kind of insight from you
then circling back to thebeginning, I think that's that's
a that's such a beautiful wayof like rounding things off in
it.
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