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Profit can look healthy and still leave you sweating when the tax bill lands. That tension is exactly what we tackle with Dr Barry Oulton and Shishir Khadka, a specialist dental accountant and CFO, as we lay out seven clear strategies designed for UK dental practice principals who want to keep more of what the business already earns.
We start by getting brutally precise about the numbers most owners mix up: revenue, profit, cash and take-home pay. Shishir explains why production vs collection matters, how timing can overstate profit, and why “money in the bank” is not the same as taxable profit. From there, Barry makes the case for a big but simple shift: you are the owner and the practice is the operator. When you separate personal finances from the business, set a predictable salary and dividend rhythm, and hold a sensible cash reserve, you gain control, reduce stress, and protect exit value.
We then move into practical UK dental tax planning, including the salary vs dividends conversation, pensions as a legitimate planning tool, and why structure across entities can matter for principals with an NHS contract, a private limited company, property, or education and IP income. We also zoom out to wealth building: creating an asset that can run without you, understanding the true cost of drifting without decisions, and tracking the one metric that tells the truth each month: net cash flow. We finish with what a 12-month financial game plan looks like and how real-time data can support better decisions on associate terms, investment timing and tax planning.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Dr James (01:43):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to this live um in theflask.
I almost said in the flash, butI guess we're here digitally,
but it's still comments, right?
It's live, you know, for whatit's worth, which makes it
really fun and makes it reallyinteresting because as they all
say, well, you know, as as asany sort of live content goes,
uh anything can happen.
We're here to have fun, we'rehere to have a laugh, and also
what that means is people canask questions directly to the
(02:04):
hosts of the webinar, which isamazing.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All of this content comments asverifiable CPD, and you can
(02:27):
download your certificates thereand then on Putin BGSE.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and 5%discount on lab bills for dental
principals, amongst other perksand discounts for members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
And I'm joined today by Dr.
(02:51):
Barry Oulton and Mr.
Shishir Khadka, and we're hereto talk about anything and
everything tax strategiesspecifically for principals.
Because as we all know,principals run their businesses,
tax is no fun in the UK, andtax can be the difference
between us being in profit andnot being in profit, but no one
actually tells us stuff, tellsus this stuff, especially in
dental school and not even ourown accountants.
(03:13):
What do you think about that,Barry?
Does that sound about right?
Barry insisting.
Dr Barry (03:18):
I tell you what, um, I've been in dentistry now for
30 years, and I owned mypractice for over 20.
Uh, and I've been nurturing andcoaching dentists and dental
practice owners now for the lastfew years.
And it's only in the last 12months of having met Shishir
(03:40):
that um we truly have begun tomassively understand our numbers
and what can affect our profit.
It was Shishir that taught methat practice owners don't have
a profit problem, they have acash flow problem.
And that is they're makingprofit, but they could be doing
(04:00):
a hell of a lot better.
And that's the aim of tonightis to share some key strategies
that he's been sharing with myclients that's making a massive
difference to people.
So yeah.
Dr James (04:11):
Hell yeah, that's the aim of the game.
Tashir, how are you thisevening?
Shishir (04:16):
Yeah, I'm good.
Thanks, James, and and glad tobe here today.
Yeah.
Dr James (04:19):
Good to see you, mate.
I can't wait to see how you twoare going to bounce off each
other tonight because obviouslyTashir's uh expertise lies in
the tax side of things, being anaccountant and a content that
specializes in dentists, but notjust dentists, specifically
principals and also cash flow aswell.
And Barry's expertise.
Well, Barry was a dentist, uh,is a dentist, of course.
Is a dentist, is a dentist.
Let me allow me to correctmyself for Barry's uh apologies.
(04:40):
He still identifies as adentist, I guess you could say.
Uh, but have you worked whenwas the last time you worked
clinically?
Or are you clinical now, Barry?
Dr Barry (04:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm working on Saturday.
Dr James (04:51):
Oh, beg your pardon.
Beg your pardon.
There we go.
Uh yeah, excuse me then.
But yes, Barry is obviously uhformerly a principal as well and
knows everything there is toknow about making a practice
profitable.
So how about that?
How about we do that, guys?
How about we jump straight in?
Dr Barry (05:03):
Let's do that.
I'll if you don't mind, I'llshare screen, I'll get into the
uh into the and then I can dothe intro.
Can you see my screen there,mate?
Dr James (05:12):
Yeah, we got you.
Dr Barry (05:13):
Uh amazing.
Okay.
Um so thank you, those of youthat have joined us.
I I just want to make a simplepromise, really, over the next
45 minutes, that Shishir and Iwill make sure that you leave
with seven concrete strategiesfor keeping more of what your
practice already earns.
Um, and it's not by workingmore chair side hours, it's not
(05:36):
by ramping up, you know, the newpatient numbers or making uh,
you know, increasing feesnecessarily, it's by making
smarter decisions with the moneythat you're already generating
and identifying the areas thatShishir has helped my existing
clients um that are now workingwith us jointly um to
(05:57):
understand.
And we've he's seen this acrosshundreds of practices.
Um, and most most practitionersdon't have that profit problem.
It is cash flow and they have astructure problem.
It's organizing the things thatthey're doing.
That they're making the money,um, but the difference between
two practices that are makingthe same revenue can be six
(06:20):
figures a year of personalincome, purely down to how that
money is structured.
And that's really what we'regoing to walk you through.
Um, so uh Shishir and I aregonna be bouncing off each
other, and um, we're very, veryhappy to take questions.
It may well be that uh ifJames, I can't see the questions
because I've I'm operating theslides.
(06:42):
So if somebody else can jump inand it's appropriate to answer,
otherwise, we promise we'llanswer it at the end.
Um, and we will also make surethat you can have these slides
and have access to them.
Um, and then one thing againbefore we start, what what we're
about to share isn't theory.
Each of these seven strategiesis being used by real principles
(07:06):
in dental practices to keepmore of what they earn.
And at the end of the day,that's what we all want, right?
Some of them are people thatyou may even know.
None of them did anything fancyor exotic.
Um, none of them madeaggressive structures.
They simply made decisionsabout how their money was being
handled.
And instead of letting thestructure run on autopilot, by
(07:30):
the end of tonight, we're gonnaknow exactly what those
decisions are.
Um, so let me just kind ofintroduce really the two of us.
My name is Barry Alton.
I am a dentist.
I owned my uh practices for 20years.
I'm now a full-time businesscoach, although I do work the
odd Saturday in clinic.
(07:51):
Uh, and my business partner isuh Shishir Kadka.
He is a chartered certifiedaccountant.
He specializes uh in UK dentalprinciples, uh, and he also is a
CFO for a number of companies.
One, he took from five to fiftyfoon, uh, and he's a CFO for
two microcorporates.
(08:12):
He's worked with associate-ledpractices, NHS Mixed, fully
private, and he also hasobviously microcorporates
corporates, and he's acting andadvising some DSOs.
Um, I've worked with a lot ofaccountants over the years, and
Shear is so sheer is the onethat I've found who can actually
(08:33):
explain this stuff in plainEnglish and tell you what to do
with it.
I have found over the yearsthat I have had no advice, poor
advice, and diabolical advice.
Rarely have I had great advice,and I've never had advice that
was ahead of the curve.
(08:54):
I've always effectively drivenmy business through the rearview
mirror financially.
I waited for the accounts, Ididn't have accurate
information, I didn't haveaccurate data, but I still
didn't fuck it up.
I still made enough money tooperate and live as a family.
But what I now know is forprobably 16 years, I was living,
(09:14):
I was leaving probably sixfigures on the table because I
didn't understand the figures.
And that's what Shishir is nowdoing with my clients.
What we're going to covertonight is seven strategies,
concrete moves that will keepmore of what you're already
earning.
It'll be in plain English, nojargon, no theory.
(09:34):
If there is, we will back thatup with making it simple and
understandable so you can takeit away with you.
There'll be both of us here.
Shishir really is the financialmechanic.
And mine is about ownership anddecisions and strategy.
It'll be about 45 minutes andyou can drop questions into the
chat.
Uh, we'll give you a replay ofthis and you can have the
(09:56):
slides.
We want to spread thisinformation as much as we
possibly can uh because we knowthat this will make a
difference.
Uh, whether you choose toengage with us or work with us
or you know, chat to us or not,uh what we'll share will make a
difference.
Um, and uh strategy number oneuh is where I will hand over to
(10:21):
Shishir because he is going torun you through that profit
isn't what you think it is.
Shishir, you're there, mate.
Shishir (10:28):
I'm dental accountant and CFO, and um so it's good to
be here.
And uh yes, so profit is uh youknow, it's uh it's not quite
sure of a word because when youtalk about profit, like you
know, are we talking about grosslevel profit?
Are we talking about netprofit?
Are we talking about profitafter allowing for taxes?
(10:49):
Are we talking about money inthe bank?
And uh so by havingconversations with different
people, Barry, what I comeacross is they mean different
things.
So I have to seriously askthem, like, what you mean,
profit?
You know, so so yeah, the thefirst thing that I want to be
clear is the four numbers here,but you just uh put the four
numbers there to be uh uh justto be just to be sure.
(11:12):
Like so we have the revenue, wehave the profit, we have the
cash, and we have to take home.
These are the key four figuresthat you want to be aware of.
And here's the here's thebiggest things problem that I
see with most redental practicesthat when they when they record
the money that received frompatient into zero or quibbix
(11:32):
accounting software, they arerecording based on election, not
on production.
The issue with that one is whenyou're not deferring the
revenue, you are showing yourincome or revenue sooner than
actually it happened.
As a result of that, yourprofit is overstated.
(11:53):
As a result of that, your taxis overstated.
So, first of all, you need tobe aware of the difference
between production andcollection.
The revenue is what you earn,and you might have done in
design case that straddles forthree months, but you won't be
(12:14):
recognizing the revenue based onnear to the completion.
That is the safest way to doit, and and also it will save
you taxes because you're doingit at the time when the work has
been completed.
And the profit is what's leftafter cost and expenses.
So, this is the cost are thematerials, that associate fees,
(12:35):
and and the uh and the wasties,uh you know, the clinical waste
um that happens to the business,that cost, and anything that
does not fall into that one bydefault is expenses.
So, I'm not going to moredetail about what is capital,
what is uh expense item herebecause that becomes too
technical for you.
But if you if you take thatmaterials, lab, associate fees,
(12:57):
and wasties, uh anything out ofthat that is part of the
overhead expenses.
So profit is simply yourrevenue minus minus cost minus
expenses.
So, but the cash in thebusiness is different anymore
because it has to take care oflike all the loan repayments,
all the practice uh equipmentpayments, all the things EMIs,
(13:18):
all the loan um taxes need to bepaid.
So, this is where the timing uhaspect comes into play.
This is why the profit and andcash does not does not equal at
the same time when you'relooking at the same period.
And and you're wondering likehow much should I take home?
And uh based on that, how muchtax I'm paying.
(13:41):
So you take home pay, itbecomes a crucial figure.
But here's what we do with ourclients.
First, we don't start with therevenue in the first place, and
we call it the dream profitgoal.
And in our and in our software,what we build is called the
profit calculator and uh theprofit-to-pocket model.
So we start with the what yourrevenue, what your take-home pay
(14:02):
goal is, and based on that,what the revenue should be so
that you can have your take-homepay.
This way, you are reverseengineering the process.
So, so these are the fourfigures that you absolutely be
need to be aware of on a monthlybasis.
Your cash position, your profitposition, your take-home pay,
(14:22):
and how far are you off in termsof uh how much you're
withdrawing from the business,and what is the top line revenue
that is supporting uh to it tothat figures.
Barry?
Yeah, sorry, mate.
Yeah, so so which leads to likeuh I've seen this often that
(14:44):
you know uh a practice can havelike a a 1.2, like both
practices are doing like 1.2million, but they are operating
at different profit margin.
Literally different profitmargin.
Well I've seen also someonedoing a 1.2 million versus
someone doing one eight hundredthousand, and eight hundred
thousand pounds uh is doingpercentage while the net profit
(15:06):
is more.
And so so we have to understandthe margins in the business,
and and especially when we lookat from the peer types, the NHS
type, uh the private type, umyou know, a business think about
this a business from NHS uh youknow categorically NHS type
(15:27):
business, say 75% NHS, 25%private versus of 70% private
and 20% NHS, most does a millionpounds of production, who is
going to make more profit?
You know, like so so the thepeer type is also gonna be a
crucial part of this process.
And and uh so when we look atthis one, uh if a business doing
(15:53):
a 1.2 million, practice A doinguh is a principal paid, and
practice B is more like uh youknow structurally like salary
dividends, etc.
So if you're if you'reoptimizing this front, so your
take-home pay is going to bemuch higher than when you do
practice B.
So you've got to plan for thesethings.
And how it's structured, right?
(16:14):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You start with the structure.
It's like the way I say, Barry,it's like uh if you're going on
a motorway, you know, and thefirst thing you want to be sure
of is like which car you'redriving or which vehicle you're
driving on.
It's crucial because if you aredriving a bus, and and trust
me, that you you're not gonna gofar much faster as opposed to
you're driving a faster car, youknow, like it has to be it
(16:37):
takes more weight, you know.
It has to carry a lot a lot ofcrap with it.
So so the structure has to beright in the first place.
You start with the structure.
Dr Barry (16:47):
Uh strategy too is actually me because it's
non-financial.
Um this is separating yourselffrom the business, and this is
where I categorically got itwrong.
Um, because behavior shows upin the numbers without a shadow
of a doubt.
Um, so Sher and I both end upat the same conclusion just from
(17:09):
different angles.
When most of us start out asprincipals, the practice and the
personal become very blurred.
Um, the practice card pays forthe petrol, the personal account
covers a supplier when cash isreally tight at the practice.
Drawings go up when there is aholiday coming and it can go
(17:30):
down.
And, you know, be honest withyourselves.
It's just we in the early dayscertainly we treat the practice
almost like a personal bankaccount.
And I did this for years.
I used to get shouted at forusing the Amex.
I because I had an Amex and Ipaid for everything on the Amex
because I was getting air miles.
And so I kind of ended upblending the personal with the
(17:53):
business, didn't think there wasa major issue with it.
Um, and that works in year one,uh, but it doesn't work at
scale.
And it definitely doesn't workwhen you want to extract serious
money or eventually sell,because they then have to start
extracting what the personal isand what the professional is.
The shift we recommend that youneed to make is at an identity
(18:14):
level.
Effectively, you're twoentities, right?
You are the owner, and theowner gets paid in defined,
structured ways, as per a coupleof slides ago.
The practice is a separatebusiness with its own cash flow.
It's got its own reserves, itsown decisions to make.
The two are connected, butthey're not the same thing.
And the the question is, well,why does that matter?
(18:37):
And realistically, there werethree reasons why it matters.
First is control.
When you separate the two, youstop reacting.
Drawings are no longer afunction of how much was in the
bank.
Uh, you set a salary and youset a dividend rhythm, you set a
pension contribution, and thepractice runs on a budget.
(18:59):
And that's what I never did.
Uh, you stop really beingwhipsawed by a slow NHS schedule
or a quiet week in the diary,or you panic about white space
because actually everything isplanned for.
Second is tax, the dreaded tax.
The HMRC treats salarydividends and pension
(19:21):
contributions very differently.
Shishir will take you throughthat detail in the next
strategy.
But the point I want you tohear right now is that you
cannot use any of that structureif you've blurred the lines.
And you'll just dip into theaccount when you need money.
And again, full hands up, thiswas me, totally guilty.
Separation is actually aprecondition for everything else
(19:44):
we're going to talk abouttonight.
Third is exit value.
Now, ultimately, um, so she andI are talking to uh a number of
uh practice brokerage, becausein an ideal world, we would love
to get hold of practices threeyears before the day that
they've decided that they'd liketo sell.
(20:06):
How do we do that?
I don't know yet.
But if there's ever an inklingthat you you are thinking of
selling, we would love to have afive-year exit strategy because
with that, we can start to makea difference.
So whether it's three yearsfrom now or 15, a buyer
ultimately is looking for aclearly run practice with
(20:26):
separated finances, a practicewhere the principal's lifestyle
isn't buried in the PL, whichobviously in the early years is
an advantage, right?
But it's hard to value, it'sharder to sell, or ultimately it
sells for less.
Uh, and every month you'reblurring those lines, if you
are, is a month that you areeffectively chipping away your
eventual exit number.
(20:48):
So if there is some potentialexit in the future, our advice
is to separate you and thebusiness.
So practically, what doesseparation really look like?
It's a defined monthly salarygoing from the practice to you.
It's dividends paid on aschedule, not on an impulse, a
(21:08):
separate personal bank accountthe practice never touches, the
practice holding its ownreserves, a buffer, ideally
three months, two to threemonths, but ideally I want my
clients to have three months ofoperating costs, sitting in the
business, not being swept out ata moment it appears, and every
personal expense stayingpersonal, unless there is a
(21:30):
legitimate documented reason forit being in the practice.
Dr James (21:33):
And and can I just highlight something really
quickly?
There's also the oper theopposite problem where you have
huge cash reserves in thebusiness, like way over and
above uh your operating costs.
And I think we cling on to cashfrom a point of view of safety,
like we feel safe the higherthe number is.
But actually, that's wastedopportunities as well, because
that could be reinvested in thepractice or in some sort of
(21:56):
other investment effectively.
Uh, again, that's where yourknowledge on how to upgrade your
practice comes in, or yourknowledge on investments and
everything along those lines.
But that's actually just as biga problem.
And I've I've seen that all thetime.
I see, I know this is obviouslyfor principals.
I see associates with 200k in alimited company just sat there
and no plan, basically.
And uh the reality is you'relosing that wealth, you're
(22:18):
literally donating your thehours that you put in to
generate that wealth back to thegovernment because obviously
inflation is eating away at it.
So I just wanted to point thatout and not uh sidetrack things
too much.
Dr Barry (22:29):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point, mate.
And what we do with with ourclients really is that for us,
once you've got two to threemonths of operating capital sat
in the bank, then it's aboutlooking at as money builds up,
what are we gonna do with that?
You know, for me, there's adifference between growth and
scaling, right?
Growth, we talk about growthreally being about um historic.
(22:54):
Where am I?
Where have I been?
And they kind of think aboutincreasing that by 20%.
Scaling is what people aredoing when they're buying
multiple practices.
It's not a case of, oh, we wantto do 20% better.
It's a case of right, if Icould write this and I wanted
to, you know, really go for it,no holds barred, what would I
do?
I'd have six practices.
(23:14):
Then you can start to reverseengineer that and see what
you're gonna do.
In terms of individual practiceowners, um, we've worked with
people who are, you know, insimilar situations, similar size
practices.
One of them draws what sheneeds when she needs it, you
know, eight a month, 15 thenext, 30 when there is a
(23:35):
holiday.
And then the second one takes afixed monthly salary, fixed
quarterly dividends, annual topup.
And there's a profit headroomat the year end.
Now, same total income acrossthe year, but completely
different relationship withtheir money.
Patient A, patient A, PrincipalA tells me that they're
anxious, they're worried aboutmoney even in the good months
(23:57):
because they can never predictreally what's coming next.
They end up having high profit,but no money to pay the tax.
They don't have a profitproblem, they have a cash flow
problem.
Principal B told me she stoppedthinking about the practice
cash completely because she knewexactly where she was and
exactly what she was doing.
Same income, differentstructure, different life,
(24:18):
different stress levels.
And I would hasten to ask Ibet, I bet my last 10 quid that
there is virtually nobody onthis call that doesn't have some
element of financial stress.
And that could include thepeople that you've just
highlighted, mate, which isthey've got tons of cash, but
they don't know what to do withit.
So this is what is really onoffer, right?
(24:42):
Is not less freedom, but moreclarity.
And principles are runthemselves, and the practice as
separate entities are the onesthat don't dread the post.
They don't dread the brownenvelope, they don't lose sleep
over a tax bill.
So if you're if you're runningit as your own personal kind of
bank account, our advice is stopthat ASAP and begin to separate
(25:02):
it out.
All right, tax efficiencyladder.
This is just Jia coming in,right?
This is that's just his name.
Shishir (25:11):
Okay, so just to uh touch on this bit, I think the
salary, dividends, pensions, andfurther, so these are like uh
standard things that uh you knowuh that you may be aware of.
And you know, obviously youwant to be an optimum salary,
uh, and uh obviously the NIthreshold has gone up and uh the
employment allowance has goneup.
(25:32):
Um so what we have found whenwe've done the exercise is if
you have more than seven staffmembers, on average, I'm talking
about on just on average, umand dental practice have worked
with me in um over the yearsthat if you have more than seven
staff, which means that you areyou're going to start paying
extra inputs and Icontributions.
(25:55):
Um this is um this is on top ofthe you know the minimum wage
increase as well as the uh aswell as the employment allowance
has gone up to uh to 10,500.
But what we've seen is if youhave more than uh seven staff,
you start to pay moreimprovements and I.
(26:15):
So dividend obviously thespinning change um the and uh
and it's still salary plusdividend is um uh is it is still
uh you know viable rule formost of them and pensions, um,
you know, 60,000 years, you cango back to to last three years,
180,000 if you've got to investit, and this um this ICS, ES,
(26:37):
ES, and NS, and this lot ofthings that uh that will need uh
just a webinar on its own.
If you have to go deep on oneof the things, what I would
touch on is just to link to thethe previous uh thing that Barry
was talking about, you know,separating the personal versus
um the um the company, what Iadded more is that what what I
(27:00):
see is that the most dentalpractice they have this
structure.
They have a uh uh they have asole trader for NHS contract,
and they have a limited companyfor the private treatment, and
they have wanted to buy toilets,and and they might have an
education arm as well.
So you so here's the strategyfor you, and I don't I'm not
seeing that many um dentalpractices do that.
(27:23):
So uh do that, which is youwould want to be setting up your
property code, your limited uhcompany for property, you'd want
to be uh creating a limitedcompany for your trading your
your private treatment, and youalso want to be set separating
or creating a separate entityfor your if you are doing some
(27:44):
education work and your IP isthat.
So, in this way, if you sellyour dental practice, you're
selling dental practice on itsown and your IP is protected,
and you still have your freeholdand properties intact.
And uh mostly that I see isthey just set up a holding
company and they have the fewfew companies on underneath that
bond, and without that takingthis into account, and uh uh
(28:06):
you're not going through theoptimized route.
So, so his example of the workexample, personal income here,
and like uh yeah, 60,000.
The I the idea of of this inthe Barry is that uh it depends
on the the income bracket you'rein, and also people think like,
(28:28):
well, a taxation is just from6th of April to the following
5th of April.
No, it's not.
It relates back to the previousyear and it also relates back
to the the coming year next yearas well.
For me, it's already athree-year cycle.
Is it is not from 6th of Aprilto the following 5th of April,
it is not so so you you gottalook at from the three-year
(28:49):
cycle point of view, and and uhand what personal income do you
need to survive, and uh and alsofor holidays and things like
that, and also what money youneed to extract from the
business to invest in certainareas.
So after doing that only, andyou can be sensible enough, and
if your profitab of thebusiness, if your net assets
(29:12):
shareholder funds allow you todo that, and if you cash in the
business, allow supports foryour working capital, then you
uh I suggest you to go aheaddown that route.
Um obviously when you'reinvesting in different areas, um
different areas, the thecompound effect is um is uh is
(29:33):
more so so you so um so here theidea is that uh you'd want to
be taking into account the routeof salary plus dividends plus
um kind of family um you knowcontribution to working in the
in the dental practice.
Obviously, they are doinggenuine work, you know, genuine
(29:53):
work, you know, maybe that'smarketing, maybe that's admin
work, maybe that's bookkeepingwork, but they got to be genuine
and and uh you can utilize thatand and you know, up to £50,000
you think back, you're payingtaxes at 20%.
So you want to do those kind ofthings.
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of this podcast.
Shishir (31:59):
Yeah, so this one is an interesting one, uh Barry.
You know, like uh so I wouldsay like your practice is like a
business, is like a vehiclethat supports you that how
you're building the wealth.
And the way you can buildwealth is actually by building
assets.
And what are the assets indental practice?
It's the activation that youhave in the business.
Number two, it you have thesubstitute for yourself.
(32:22):
That if you if you are doingmost of the clinical work, then
uh then uh when you do sell thebusiness, then the valuation
will be at least uh two timesless.
And that's how crucial it is.
And uh staff and um and and uhand and the and and all the
(32:43):
statement uh sorry, thestructure, the the systems and
processes in the business arecrucial part of the asset of the
business.
So at the end of the day,that's with what you're
studying.
So you want to be building theasset in the business rather
than just an income.
I'll give an example, Barry.
That one of our clients uh uhhe he cancelled a monthly call.
(33:05):
He says, I just got anopportunity to uh to do uh
implant for for uh for apatient, it's like 4,000 pounds
income.
And in like but I asked him,like, uh how old are you?
And so like I'm 52.
How long do you think you cando this?
You know, and going on for andsaid, I only have arthritis
(33:27):
problem, and I do that.
And and and the thing is, Isaid, like, but you have been
chained to the dental sheds.
In general, in top line only,if that is not healthy for you
and for your for your health andfor anybody, you know.
Because you're not keeping theprofit margin.
And I'm gonna show the maths interms of well, if you do the
(33:50):
work, then this is the theprofit that you make from the
business, but we let yourassociate do the work, so else
so he's gonna make 1304 pounds.
But if you make the if you dothe treatment, you make 2200
profit, and probably here's thedifference 800 pounds.
But imagine that you could getthree more patients of this one,
that covers that, isn't it?
(34:10):
Now you're no longer doing thework, someone is doing the work
for you, you still have somelevel of profit, but you got the
time back.
Yeah, and then that's that'scrucial.
Dr Barry (34:27):
Yeah, the one thing you can't get more of time.
You can always make more money,but you can't make more time.
Yes.
Shishir (34:36):
Yeah, so um so so so I think the wealth is uh is a big
concept and uh big concept.
And uh so when we're talkingabout wealth, and what what we
uh what we cover is like uh thecash flow in the business, so
that the the business issupported uh you know for the
(34:57):
working capital, and and what'sthe e-bit and the profitability
of the business, and uh what arethe things that you own that
last set to you, and uh and howyou're financing the business,
and how you uh look after thetax situation in all aspects,
and then what is the exit plan?
And these are the six areasthat we cover in terms of how
(35:20):
you build wealth from by usingbusiness as a vehicle.
Dr Barry (35:25):
Yeah, nice one, mate.
Um point number five out ofseven.
Uh again, this is me, right?
Because this is uh exactly whatI was like the hidden cost of
actually doing nothing.
Um, and what I mean, what Imean by that is that by not
taking any decisions, you don'tsee anything.
So you don't see anything inaction, absolutely, right?
(35:49):
It's because um it's one of thethings that's costing most of
us right now, but you can't seeit.
Um when you make a badfinancial decision, you find out
about it, right?
It shows up.
You either have somebodyknocking, phoning you going,
what the hell are you doing, orsomething else goes wrong and
you feel it.
(36:09):
But then at least you cancorrect it, at least you can get
the data, find out, and dosomething about it.
But when you make no decisionat all, when you leave the
structure as it was when youbought the practice, or you when
the early days that you put ittogether and you don't review
your salary situation or yourdividend split, when you never
set up pension contributions,nothing visibly bad ever
(36:32):
happens.
So you kind of just get on withit.
And like I said, it's reallyhard to get it wrong in
dentistry.
But the problem is the practicekeeps running, the money keeps
coming in, and then you don'tget a letter from the HMRC to
say, oh, by the way, you couldhave saved 25,000 quid, but the
cost is there and it's hidden.
And the gap between what youtook home and what you could
(36:53):
have taken home year after yearreally does compound and build
up.
And I've seen that in my owncareer.
I mentioned it earlier on.
Six figures probably that Iprobably left on an annual
basis.
And I've seen it in dozens ofpractices that I've coached.
The principals who suffer themost financially are not the
ones making bad calls, they'rethe ones not making any calls at
(37:13):
all, not making any decisions.
And they're basically runningtheir finances on autopilot, or
they did what I did, which wasto abdicate control to uh an
antiquated system run by lovelyaccountants, but run in, you
know, almost in reverse,certainly a year behind.
Um, so you know what what I'dlove to do, Shishir, is to hand
(37:36):
this bit over to you so that youcan kind of run through these
figures, right?
Which is the areas where thisshows up the most and the things
that ultimately when when we'reusing the software, it really
does bring these to theforefront so that they're not
hidden from the clients, right?
Shishir (37:54):
Yeah, and and uh one thing that we do uh run through
the clients, Barry, is we runthrough like tax A to G
checklists, you know, like basedon their circumstances, that
you know, so that nothing isleft behind, you know, like uh
you're doing things uh in the ina illicit way and and uh we
entirely do that.
Um but it's all start withplanning, you know, like it's
(38:18):
all start with planning, justlike treatment planning, there's
a property planning and there'sa tax planning.
Dr Barry (38:23):
Treatment planning, but we don't treatment plan our
money, do we?
Shishir (38:27):
Yeah, treatment planning your money, yeah.
That that's what's um you knowthat could be the difference
between having an additional£50,000 in the bank account in a
personal bank account afterpaying taxes, you know, like you
know, after a line for tax,personal taxes or not, you know,
that could be the difference.
Um uh two weeks ago I was at anevent and um I was at uh uh Dr.
(38:49):
Marie Shitney's trustedtreatment event in Winway's, and
and uh the guy came to me anduh he's a very successful guy,
he's very very good clinicalguy, and he showed me he told me
that he sold his practice to umbig DSOs and they paid him 75%
of the equity on what theyagreed on, and and for the few
(39:09):
years it was based on somecontingent of being 5% of
SLABCDE.
That didn't happen, he lostthat.
And in hindsight, he tells methat um you know if I had uh you
know known some of thisinformation, not from you, C if
I had just have this informationfrom somewhere just like you,
and things could have beendifferent, you know.
Things could have beendifferent.
It's just about beingknowledgeable in this area, not
(39:31):
to be just being in confined ina clinical room, you know.
Dr Barry (39:34):
And in the mate, that's but but to be fair, and I
don't know how many people knowmy history, but that's exactly
what happened to me.
Is that sold into sold into aDSO.
Shishir (39:44):
I didn't know that.
I I didn't I didn't know that,I didn't.
Dr Barry (39:46):
Sold into a DSO and the earnout, um, you know, we've
got a percentage up front, butthe earnout, 432,000, we didn't
get.
Uh, and we didn't get thatbecause I was wet behind the
ears, I didn't get the rightadvice, and I didn't really know
what to do.
And so when I say in thisstrategy that the cost is
hidden, that's exactly what Imean.
(40:07):
200,000 to 300,000 poundsconservatively over 10 years,
simply because nothing wasdecided.
And here's the bit actuallythat makes this strategy really
different from the others,because there is no skill
involved with this, right?
For me, there was no skillinvolved.
You don't have to learnanything, you don't have to take
a course, you just have to makea decision.
(40:28):
You make a decision, you pick adate, and you get some advice.
You get somebody qualified,which is not me, obviously, to
review your structure, give youradvice, and you do something
about it, whatever they find, sothat you can actually be
proactive, not reactive.
And I think as a principal, Iwas reactive to my finances, not
proactive.
And if you are watching thisand you think that's probably
(40:50):
me, make a decision and dosomething about it.
Because it doesn't have to beyou that pulls the data, the
software that does it, there'speople that can do it, but don't
just rely on your accountantsgiving you information that is
six to 12 months, if not longer,behind.
Because if you do somethingnow, it will have a massive
effect moving forward year onyear on year.
(41:12):
Um yeah.
Shishir (41:14):
Yeah, but uh we talked upon this uh this idea of you
know restorative dentistryversus you know like you know,
like preventive dentistry is thesame thing, you know.
Um so yeah, we we want to beproactive in into um planning
the the treatments uh for ourpatients, and and same thing
that we want to do with with thewith how you uh do proactively
(41:38):
plan your business,profitability business, so that
the the taxes and and the cashsituation is based on that
figure.
Dr Barry (41:47):
You know, well you just said profit and cash.
Jump onto that one briefly,mate, because we've got two more
points to go.
Um explain cash flow versusprofit.
Shishir (41:58):
Okay, here's the uh simple way of explaining profit
versus cash flow.
Um, well, cash flow is iscollection, so this is what you
keep in the till, like moneygets collected, and profit is
what you do the treatment on.
But isn't that the same thing?
You know, it is not uh becauseuh what profit is based on
(42:19):
revenue and revenue is earned,not received.
So it's based on what you dothe treatment on.
It's a bit like um teeth versusgums, Barry, you know.
So yeah, they're just part ofthe oral health, you know, like
uh teeth is like uh you know,you never held the teeth.
I mean that's your profitbecause that is like that's the
(42:41):
teeth of the business, right?
That's the teeth of the uh ofthe mouth.
But the gums is the oneactually holding the teeth.
Without gums, it does not holdthe it doesn't hold the teeth.
And how do I know?
Because I lost all my teeth in2019 uh due to severe
periodental disease.
That that's how I knew.
(43:01):
You know, I I first experiencedthat in the same way that's in
the business, it will not holdthe business.
Dr Barry (43:10):
So, mate, ex explain the three that you explained to
me the three things thateverybody needs to know so that
they can take that away withthem tonight.
Shishir (43:19):
Yes, so uh when it comes to uh property cash flow,
what you want to be tracking onis you want to be tracking on
the net profit versus net cashflow month by month.
And you want to be reviewingevery quarter, and you want to
be seeing like a line graph thattells you here's the net profit
line, and here's your net cashflow line, which one is higher,
(43:42):
which one is going in whatdirection?
That tells you where theproblem is happening.
So uh this way of like uh youcan just build a simple
spreadsheet just to track youruh cash flow from operation
point of view, how you run thebusiness, from an investment
point of view, what bit uh moneyis invested in the business
from an investor point of view,and from a financing point of
(44:04):
view, how the business isfinance, and you'll find out
what is your net cash flow.
Net cash simply just means howmuch money you kept in the in
the business in that say in thatmonth.
Whereas how much profit youmade, which is you can't
actually see it because youcan't spend profit very, you
know.
So you need cash in thebusiness.
So both are important, and bothare important, but you won't be
(44:27):
seeing which one is uh goinghigher and which one is heading
in which direction.
I think that would be the umthe single biggest thing that
the business owner should belooking at on a regular basis.
And if I have to pick onenumber from of all the numbers
of all the numbers, I would justpick one number, which is net
(44:48):
cash flow every month.
How much cash you are keepingin the business, not from a bank
balance brought forward, justfrom how much you received, how
much you paid, how much youkept.
If that's growing, and it's agood sign that you know, unless
you you unless the money hasbeen plot from investor point of
(45:10):
view, that's that's a separateissue.
I'm just talking aboutcategorically from uh from an
operation point of view.
Yeah.
Dr Barry (45:17):
Nice, nice.
Final point.
Uh the final strategy is have aplan, guys.
Um have a 12 month game plan.
Uh don't be looking back, don'tbe steering your ship with a
your financial ship with a rearview mirror.
Um and plan ahead.
Take this, we'll give you theseslides.
(45:38):
A 12 month game plan reallyreplaces, you know, you're gonna
Have a rhythm to it.
It's not complicated, just hasto be there, has to exist.
And this is what we recommend: this kind of monthly review, (45:48):
undefined
quarterly review, and thenannually.
We're looking for three monthsout.
Why three months out?
Because you want to be lookingat pension contributions,
equipment timing, associaterestructuring.
With our software, Dem Pulse,every single one of my clients
(46:11):
has been in a situation torenegotiate their associate
contracts because data doesn'tlie.
It's not a 47.5% finger in theair.
It's actually we know that inorder for us to make a profit,
you need to gross £1,827 a day.
And if you can do that, you canhave 45%.
You also then want to belooking at dividend timing.
(46:32):
And then we would be doing twoannual sessions and done well,
they are worth tens of thousandsof pounds.
So, in brief, all seven things,right?
Profit isn't what you think,right?
Four numbers, not one.
Separate yourself from thebusiness.
Do that now.
Think about owner versusoperator.
I have a training programcalled owner versus operator,
(46:54):
and it's an identity shift andit's one that you can do quite
quickly.
Use tax efficiency ladder forsalary, dividends, pension, and
wrapping up.
Treat the practice as a wealthengine, not just an income.
Recognize the hidden cost ofdoing nothing.
Make a decision, get on withit, because you can always
course correct.
If you're not doing something,then you're just kind of
(47:16):
drifting.
Manage your cash flow, not justyour profit.
Three numbers that you alwaysneed to know and run a financial
game plan.
Now, knowing isn't doing.
What's needed is structure.
Let me just briefly introduceyou to what uh Shishir and I
have now got and we offer, andit's Dent Pulse.
(47:37):
We are actually launching thisuh at the Business of Dentistry
with uh Sir James of Martin.
Uh and Dent Pulse is a geniuspiece of software that Shishir
has worked on for over fouryears as a CFO and a certified
chartered accountant, and it's afinancial operating system for
(47:57):
practices and for groups.
It is 100% data-driven.
It combines your PMS with yourfinancial software, whether you
are software of excellence,dentally, systems for dentists,
whether you use iPlicit,QuickBooks, or Xero, it connects
those things together.
And the idea is it gives youinstant clarity, control, and
(48:19):
confidence.
And our aim is to support youguys with it to maximize your
profit, minimize your tax,mobilize cash flow to accelerate
wealth effortlessly.
We have a cash flow module, wehave a tax module, we have an
associate ranking system, itdoes it all for you.
And we just wanted to make youone offer up until the business
(48:42):
of dentistry.
There is a, if you'reinterested in this, we're gonna
um get you to book a demo,right?
And have a conversation with usand we'll talk you through it.
But we have two offers foranybody signing up up until
midnight of the business ofdentistry.
And that is a no-contract-basedwhere you have a setup fee.
Uh, it's discounted for 1500quid, and currently there's no
(49:05):
VAT because we're not vattable,then it's 197 a month.
Or if you don't want to pay thesetup fee, that's absolutely
fine.
You sign with us just for 12months, then it's a rolling one
month at 249.
If you are interested, then wehave that early bird kind of
early entry level because, likeI said, we're launching on the
(49:25):
9th, and we'd like to give youthat opportunity.
That QR code will enable you tobook a demonstration of the
software.
You can also uh we'll havetestimonials from our existing
clients who are working with it,operating with it, and already
finding the incredible benefitof having up to the day.
It it literally updates everyminute because everything is
(49:48):
connected through APIs.
And so our recommendation isyou've already got something
valuable.
Make sure that the value flowsback to you.
Uh, James, thank you, mate.
Uh, are there any questions?
We'd be happy to take them.
Dr James (50:02):
Hey, listen, uh, thank you guys.
I think the thanks go the otherway.
And you know what we can do atthe very least, guys.
I'm gonna try to balance alaptop here and do a little clap
uh for Barry and Sick here uhfor sharing everything that they
shared this evening.
And you know what?
It's when you run a business,right?
Like there's no exaggeration tosay uh that if you get on top
(50:23):
of this stuff, there's five, sixfigures in the business.
You already see what goesthrough the bank account.
So it's just it's optimizingthat, and that's what's the
value lies.
And you know what?
If it doesn't, don't do it.
But but uh the point is that wewouldn't be talking about this
stuff, is even if we didn'tthink it was that powerful.
It's all about the individual,just weigh it up.
And the key thing I'd like toemphasize, which is actually one
(50:43):
of the reasons I started DennisWho Invest, is the point of
doing this, is you don't have towork any harder for it.
I think people equate moremoney with working harder in
their heads.
What we're really talking aboutis optimizing things.
But yes, anyway, Sishier Barry,thank you so much for that.
What's up everybody?
Welcome to this live um in theflask.
I almost said in the flash, butI guess we're here digitally,
but it's still comments, right?
It's live, you know, for whatit's worth, which makes it
really fun and makes it reallyinteresting because as they all
say, well, you know, as as asany sort of live content goes,
uh anything can happen.
We're here to have fun, we'rehere to have a laugh, and also
what that means is people canask questions directly to the
(02:04):
hosts of the webinar, which isamazing.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All of this content comments asverifiable CPD, and you can
(02:27):
download your certificates thereand then on Putin BGSE.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and 5%discount on lab bills for dental
principals, amongst other perksand discounts for members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
And I'm joined today by Dr.
(02:51):
Barry Oulton and Mr.
Shishir Khadka, and we're hereto talk about anything and
everything tax strategiesspecifically for principals.
Because as we all know,principals run their businesses,
tax is no fun in the UK, andtax can be the difference
between us being in profit andnot being in profit, but no one
actually tells us stuff, tellsus this stuff, especially in
dental school and not even ourown accountants.
(03:13):
What do you think about that,Barry?
Does that sound about right?
Barry insisting.
Dr Barry (03:18):
I tell you what, um, I've been in dentistry now for
30 years, and I owned mypractice for over 20.
Uh, and I've been nurturing andcoaching dentists and dental
practice owners now for the lastfew years.
And it's only in the last 12months of having met Shishir
(03:40):
that um we truly have begun tomassively understand our numbers
and what can affect our profit.
It was Shishir that taught methat practice owners don't have
a profit problem, they have acash flow problem.
And that is they're makingprofit, but they could be doing
(04:00):
a hell of a lot better.
And that's the aim of tonightis to share some key strategies
that he's been sharing with myclients that's making a massive
difference to people.
So yeah.
Dr James (04:11):
Hell yeah, that's the aim of the game.
Tashir, how are you thisevening?
Shishir (04:16):
Yeah, I'm good.
Thanks, James, and and glad tobe here today.
Yeah.
Dr James (04:19):
Good to see you, mate.
I can't wait to see how you twoare going to bounce off each
other tonight because obviouslyTashir's uh expertise lies in
the tax side of things, being anaccountant and a content that
specializes in dentists, but notjust dentists, specifically
principals and also cash flow aswell.
And Barry's expertise.
Well, Barry was a dentist, uh,is a dentist, of course.
Is a dentist, is a dentist.
Let me allow me to correctmyself for Barry's uh apologies.
(04:40):
He still identifies as adentist, I guess you could say.
Uh, but have you worked whenwas the last time you worked
clinically?
Or are you clinical now, Barry?
Dr Barry (04:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm working on Saturday.
Dr James (04:51):
Oh, beg your pardon.
Beg your pardon.
There we go.
Uh yeah, excuse me then.
But yes, Barry is obviously uhformerly a principal as well and
knows everything there is toknow about making a practice
profitable.
So how about that?
How about we do that, guys?
How about we jump straight in?
Dr Barry (05:03):
Let's do that.
I'll if you don't mind, I'llshare screen, I'll get into the
uh into the and then I can dothe intro.
Can you see my screen there,mate?
Dr James (05:12):
Yeah, we got you.
Dr Barry (05:13):
Uh amazing.
Okay.
Um so thank you, those of youthat have joined us.
I I just want to make a simplepromise, really, over the next
45 minutes, that Shishir and Iwill make sure that you leave
with seven concrete strategiesfor keeping more of what your
practice already earns.
Um, and it's not by workingmore chair side hours, it's not
(05:36):
by ramping up, you know, the newpatient numbers or making uh,
you know, increasing feesnecessarily, it's by making
smarter decisions with the moneythat you're already generating
and identifying the areas thatShishir has helped my existing
clients um that are now workingwith us jointly um to
(05:57):
understand.
And we've he's seen this acrosshundreds of practices.
Um, and most most practitionersdon't have that profit problem.
It is cash flow and they have astructure problem.
It's organizing the things thatthey're doing.
That they're making the money,um, but the difference between
two practices that are makingthe same revenue can be six
(06:20):
figures a year of personalincome, purely down to how that
money is structured.
And that's really what we'regoing to walk you through.
Um, so uh Shishir and I aregonna be bouncing off each
other, and um, we're very, veryhappy to take questions.
It may well be that uh ifJames, I can't see the questions
because I've I'm operating theslides.
(06:42):
So if somebody else can jump inand it's appropriate to answer,
otherwise, we promise we'llanswer it at the end.
Um, and we will also make surethat you can have these slides
and have access to them.
Um, and then one thing againbefore we start, what what we're
about to share isn't theory.
Each of these seven strategiesis being used by real principles
(07:06):
in dental practices to keepmore of what they earn.
And at the end of the day,that's what we all want, right?
Some of them are people thatyou may even know.
None of them did anything fancyor exotic.
Um, none of them madeaggressive structures.
They simply made decisionsabout how their money was being
handled.
And instead of letting thestructure run on autopilot, by
(07:30):
the end of tonight, we're gonnaknow exactly what those
decisions are.
Um, so let me just kind ofintroduce really the two of us.
My name is Barry Alton.
I am a dentist.
I owned my uh practices for 20years.
I'm now a full-time businesscoach, although I do work the
odd Saturday in clinic.
(07:51):
Uh, and my business partner isuh Shishir Kadka.
He is a chartered certifiedaccountant.
He specializes uh in UK dentalprinciples, uh, and he also is a
CFO for a number of companies.
One, he took from five to fiftyfoon, uh, and he's a CFO for
two microcorporates.
(08:12):
He's worked with associate-ledpractices, NHS Mixed, fully
private, and he also hasobviously microcorporates
corporates, and he's acting andadvising some DSOs.
Um, I've worked with a lot ofaccountants over the years, and
Shear is so sheer is the onethat I've found who can actually
(08:33):
explain this stuff in plainEnglish and tell you what to do
with it.
I have found over the yearsthat I have had no advice, poor
advice, and diabolical advice.
Rarely have I had great advice,and I've never had advice that
was ahead of the curve.
(08:54):
I've always effectively drivenmy business through the rearview
mirror financially.
I waited for the accounts, Ididn't have accurate
information, I didn't haveaccurate data, but I still
didn't fuck it up.
I still made enough money tooperate and live as a family.
But what I now know is forprobably 16 years, I was living,
(09:14):
I was leaving probably sixfigures on the table because I
didn't understand the figures.
And that's what Shishir is nowdoing with my clients.
What we're going to covertonight is seven strategies,
concrete moves that will keepmore of what you're already
earning.
It'll be in plain English, nojargon, no theory.
(09:34):
If there is, we will back thatup with making it simple and
understandable so you can takeit away with you.
There'll be both of us here.
Shishir really is the financialmechanic.
And mine is about ownership anddecisions and strategy.
It'll be about 45 minutes andyou can drop questions into the
chat.
Uh, we'll give you a replay ofthis and you can have the
(09:56):
slides.
We want to spread thisinformation as much as we
possibly can uh because we knowthat this will make a
difference.
Uh, whether you choose toengage with us or work with us
or you know, chat to us or not,uh what we'll share will make a
difference.
Um, and uh strategy number oneuh is where I will hand over to
(10:21):
Shishir because he is going torun you through that profit
isn't what you think it is.
Shishir, you're there, mate.
Shishir (10:28):
I'm dental accountant and CFO, and um so it's good to
be here.
And uh yes, so profit is uh youknow, it's uh it's not quite
sure of a word because when youtalk about profit, like you
know, are we talking about grosslevel profit?
Are we talking about netprofit?
Are we talking about profitafter allowing for taxes?
(10:49):
Are we talking about money inthe bank?
And uh so by havingconversations with different
people, Barry, what I comeacross is they mean different
things.
So I have to seriously askthem, like, what you mean,
profit?
You know, so so yeah, the thefirst thing that I want to be
clear is the four numbers here,but you just uh put the four
numbers there to be uh uh justto be just to be sure.
(11:12):
Like so we have the revenue, wehave the profit, we have the
cash, and we have to take home.
These are the key four figuresthat you want to be aware of.
And here's the here's thebiggest things problem that I
see with most redental practicesthat when they when they record
the money that received frompatient into zero or quibbix
(11:32):
accounting software, they arerecording based on election, not
on production.
The issue with that one is whenyou're not deferring the
revenue, you are showing yourincome or revenue sooner than
actually it happened.
As a result of that, yourprofit is overstated.
(11:53):
As a result of that, your taxis overstated.
So, first of all, you need tobe aware of the difference
between production andcollection.
The revenue is what you earn,and you might have done in
design case that straddles forthree months, but you won't be
(12:14):
recognizing the revenue based onnear to the completion.
That is the safest way to doit, and and also it will save
you taxes because you're doingit at the time when the work has
been completed.
And the profit is what's leftafter cost and expenses.
So, this is the cost are thematerials, that associate fees,
(12:35):
and and the uh and the wasties,uh you know, the clinical waste
um that happens to the business,that cost, and anything that
does not fall into that one bydefault is expenses.
So, I'm not going to moredetail about what is capital,
what is uh expense item herebecause that becomes too
technical for you.
But if you if you take thatmaterials, lab, associate fees,
(12:57):
and wasties, uh anything out ofthat that is part of the
overhead expenses.
So profit is simply yourrevenue minus minus cost minus
expenses.
So, but the cash in thebusiness is different anymore
because it has to take care oflike all the loan repayments,
all the practice uh equipmentpayments, all the things EMIs,
(13:18):
all the loan um taxes need to bepaid.
So, this is where the timing uhaspect comes into play.
This is why the profit and andcash does not does not equal at
the same time when you'relooking at the same period.
And and you're wondering likehow much should I take home?
And uh based on that, how muchtax I'm paying.
(13:41):
So you take home pay, itbecomes a crucial figure.
But here's what we do with ourclients.
First, we don't start with therevenue in the first place, and
we call it the dream profitgoal.
And in our and in our software,what we build is called the
profit calculator and uh theprofit-to-pocket model.
So we start with the what yourrevenue, what your take-home pay
(14:02):
goal is, and based on that,what the revenue should be so
that you can have your take-homepay.
This way, you are reverseengineering the process.
So, so these are the fourfigures that you absolutely be
need to be aware of on a monthlybasis.
Your cash position, your profitposition, your take-home pay,
(14:22):
and how far are you off in termsof uh how much you're
withdrawing from the business,and what is the top line revenue
that is supporting uh to it tothat figures.
Barry?
Yeah, sorry, mate.
Yeah, so so which leads to likeuh I've seen this often that
(14:44):
you know uh a practice can havelike a a 1.2, like both
practices are doing like 1.2million, but they are operating
at different profit margin.
Literally different profitmargin.
Well I've seen also someonedoing a 1.2 million versus
someone doing one eight hundredthousand, and eight hundred
thousand pounds uh is doingpercentage while the net profit
(15:06):
is more.
And so so we have to understandthe margins in the business,
and and especially when we lookat from the peer types, the NHS
type, uh the private type, umyou know, a business think about
this a business from NHS uh youknow categorically NHS type
(15:27):
business, say 75% NHS, 25%private versus of 70% private
and 20% NHS, most does a millionpounds of production, who is
going to make more profit?
You know, like so so the thepeer type is also gonna be a
crucial part of this process.
And and uh so when we look atthis one, uh if a business doing
(15:53):
a 1.2 million, practice A doinguh is a principal paid, and
practice B is more like uh youknow structurally like salary
dividends, etc.
So if you're if you'reoptimizing this front, so your
take-home pay is going to bemuch higher than when you do
practice B.
So you've got to plan for thesethings.
And how it's structured, right?
(16:14):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You start with the structure.
It's like the way I say, Barry,it's like uh if you're going on
a motorway, you know, and thefirst thing you want to be sure
of is like which car you'redriving or which vehicle you're
driving on.
It's crucial because if you aredriving a bus, and and trust
me, that you you're not gonna gofar much faster as opposed to
you're driving a faster car, youknow, like it has to be it
(16:37):
takes more weight, you know.
It has to carry a lot a lot ofcrap with it.
So so the structure has to beright in the first place.
You start with the structure.
Dr Barry (16:47):
Uh strategy too is actually me because it's
non-financial.
Um this is separating yourselffrom the business, and this is
where I categorically got itwrong.
Um, because behavior shows upin the numbers without a shadow
of a doubt.
Um, so Sher and I both end upat the same conclusion just from
(17:09):
different angles.
When most of us start out asprincipals, the practice and the
personal become very blurred.
Um, the practice card pays forthe petrol, the personal account
covers a supplier when cash isreally tight at the practice.
Drawings go up when there is aholiday coming and it can go
(17:30):
down.
And, you know, be honest withyourselves.
It's just we in the early dayscertainly we treat the practice
almost like a personal bankaccount.
And I did this for years.
I used to get shouted at forusing the Amex.
I because I had an Amex and Ipaid for everything on the Amex
because I was getting air miles.
And so I kind of ended upblending the personal with the
(17:53):
business, didn't think there wasa major issue with it.
Um, and that works in year one,uh, but it doesn't work at
scale.
And it definitely doesn't workwhen you want to extract serious
money or eventually sell,because they then have to start
extracting what the personal isand what the professional is.
The shift we recommend that youneed to make is at an identity
(18:14):
level.
Effectively, you're twoentities, right?
You are the owner, and theowner gets paid in defined,
structured ways, as per a coupleof slides ago.
The practice is a separatebusiness with its own cash flow.
It's got its own reserves, itsown decisions to make.
The two are connected, butthey're not the same thing.
And the the question is, well,why does that matter?
(18:37):
And realistically, there werethree reasons why it matters.
First is control.
When you separate the two, youstop reacting.
Drawings are no longer afunction of how much was in the
bank.
Uh, you set a salary and youset a dividend rhythm, you set a
pension contribution, and thepractice runs on a budget.
(18:59):
And that's what I never did.
Uh, you stop really beingwhipsawed by a slow NHS schedule
or a quiet week in the diary,or you panic about white space
because actually everything isplanned for.
Second is tax, the dreaded tax.
The HMRC treats salarydividends and pension
(19:21):
contributions very differently.
Shishir will take you throughthat detail in the next
strategy.
But the point I want you tohear right now is that you
cannot use any of that structureif you've blurred the lines.
And you'll just dip into theaccount when you need money.
And again, full hands up, thiswas me, totally guilty.
Separation is actually aprecondition for everything else
(19:44):
we're going to talk abouttonight.
Third is exit value.
Now, ultimately, um, so she andI are talking to uh a number of
uh practice brokerage, becausein an ideal world, we would love
to get hold of practices threeyears before the day that
they've decided that they'd liketo sell.
(20:06):
How do we do that?
I don't know yet.
But if there's ever an inklingthat you you are thinking of
selling, we would love to have afive-year exit strategy because
with that, we can start to makea difference.
So whether it's three yearsfrom now or 15, a buyer
ultimately is looking for aclearly run practice with
(20:26):
separated finances, a practicewhere the principal's lifestyle
isn't buried in the PL, whichobviously in the early years is
an advantage, right?
But it's hard to value, it'sharder to sell, or ultimately it
sells for less.
Uh, and every month you'reblurring those lines, if you
are, is a month that you areeffectively chipping away your
eventual exit number.
(20:48):
So if there is some potentialexit in the future, our advice
is to separate you and thebusiness.
So practically, what doesseparation really look like?
It's a defined monthly salarygoing from the practice to you.
It's dividends paid on aschedule, not on an impulse, a
(21:08):
separate personal bank accountthe practice never touches, the
practice holding its ownreserves, a buffer, ideally
three months, two to threemonths, but ideally I want my
clients to have three months ofoperating costs, sitting in the
business, not being swept out ata moment it appears, and every
personal expense stayingpersonal, unless there is a
(21:30):
legitimate documented reason forit being in the practice.
Dr James (21:33):
And and can I just highlight something really
quickly?
There's also the oper theopposite problem where you have
huge cash reserves in thebusiness, like way over and
above uh your operating costs.
And I think we cling on to cashfrom a point of view of safety,
like we feel safe the higherthe number is.
But actually, that's wastedopportunities as well, because
that could be reinvested in thepractice or in some sort of
(21:56):
other investment effectively.
Uh, again, that's where yourknowledge on how to upgrade your
practice comes in, or yourknowledge on investments and
everything along those lines.
But that's actually just as biga problem.
And I've I've seen that all thetime.
I see, I know this is obviouslyfor principals.
I see associates with 200k in alimited company just sat there
and no plan, basically.
And uh the reality is you'relosing that wealth, you're
(22:18):
literally donating your thehours that you put in to
generate that wealth back to thegovernment because obviously
inflation is eating away at it.
So I just wanted to point thatout and not uh sidetrack things
too much.
Dr Barry (22:29):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point, mate.
And what we do with with ourclients really is that for us,
once you've got two to threemonths of operating capital sat
in the bank, then it's aboutlooking at as money builds up,
what are we gonna do with that?
You know, for me, there's adifference between growth and
scaling, right?
Growth, we talk about growthreally being about um historic.
(22:54):
Where am I?
Where have I been?
And they kind of think aboutincreasing that by 20%.
Scaling is what people aredoing when they're buying
multiple practices.
It's not a case of, oh, we wantto do 20% better.
It's a case of right, if Icould write this and I wanted
to, you know, really go for it,no holds barred, what would I
do?
I'd have six practices.
(23:14):
Then you can start to reverseengineer that and see what
you're gonna do.
In terms of individual practiceowners, um, we've worked with
people who are, you know, insimilar situations, similar size
practices.
One of them draws what sheneeds when she needs it, you
know, eight a month, 15 thenext, 30 when there is a
(23:35):
holiday.
And then the second one takes afixed monthly salary, fixed
quarterly dividends, annual topup.
And there's a profit headroomat the year end.
Now, same total income acrossthe year, but completely
different relationship withtheir money.
Patient A, patient A, PrincipalA tells me that they're
anxious, they're worried aboutmoney even in the good months
(23:57):
because they can never predictreally what's coming next.
They end up having high profit,but no money to pay the tax.
They don't have a profitproblem, they have a cash flow
problem.
Principal B told me she stoppedthinking about the practice
cash completely because she knewexactly where she was and
exactly what she was doing.
Same income, differentstructure, different life,
(24:18):
different stress levels.
And I would hasten to ask Ibet, I bet my last 10 quid that
there is virtually nobody onthis call that doesn't have some
element of financial stress.
And that could include thepeople that you've just
highlighted, mate, which isthey've got tons of cash, but
they don't know what to do withit.
So this is what is really onoffer, right?
(24:42):
Is not less freedom, but moreclarity.
And principles are runthemselves, and the practice as
separate entities are the onesthat don't dread the post.
They don't dread the brownenvelope, they don't lose sleep
over a tax bill.
So if you're if you're runningit as your own personal kind of
bank account, our advice is stopthat ASAP and begin to separate
(25:02):
it out.
All right, tax efficiencyladder.
This is just Jia coming in,right?
This is that's just his name.
Shishir (25:11):
Okay, so just to uh touch on this bit, I think the
salary, dividends, pensions, andfurther, so these are like uh
standard things that uh you knowuh that you may be aware of.
And you know, obviously youwant to be an optimum salary,
uh, and uh obviously the NIthreshold has gone up and uh the
employment allowance has goneup.
(25:32):
Um so what we have found whenwe've done the exercise is if
you have more than seven staffmembers, on average, I'm talking
about on just on average, umand dental practice have worked
with me in um over the yearsthat if you have more than seven
staff, which means that you areyou're going to start paying
extra inputs and Icontributions.
(25:55):
Um this is um this is on top ofthe you know the minimum wage
increase as well as the uh aswell as the employment allowance
has gone up to uh to 10,500.
But what we've seen is if youhave more than uh seven staff,
you start to pay moreimprovements and I.
(26:15):
So dividend obviously thespinning change um the and uh
and it's still salary plusdividend is um uh is it is still
uh you know viable rule formost of them and pensions, um,
you know, 60,000 years, you cango back to to last three years,
180,000 if you've got to investit, and this um this ICS, ES,
(26:37):
ES, and NS, and this lot ofthings that uh that will need uh
just a webinar on its own.
If you have to go deep on oneof the things, what I would
touch on is just to link to thethe previous uh thing that Barry
was talking about, you know,separating the personal versus
um the um the company, what Iadded more is that what what I
(27:00):
see is that the most dentalpractice they have this
structure.
They have a uh uh they have asole trader for NHS contract,
and they have a limited companyfor the private treatment, and
they have wanted to buy toilets,and and they might have an
education arm as well.
So you so here's the strategyfor you, and I don't I'm not
seeing that many um dentalpractices do that.
(27:23):
So uh do that, which is youwould want to be setting up your
property code, your limited uhcompany for property, you'd want
to be uh creating a limitedcompany for your trading your
your private treatment, and youalso want to be set separating
or creating a separate entityfor your if you are doing some
(27:44):
education work and your IP isthat.
So, in this way, if you sellyour dental practice, you're
selling dental practice on itsown and your IP is protected,
and you still have your freeholdand properties intact.
And uh mostly that I see isthey just set up a holding
company and they have the fewfew companies on underneath that
bond, and without that takingthis into account, and uh uh
(28:06):
you're not going through theoptimized route.
So, so his example of the workexample, personal income here,
and like uh yeah, 60,000.
The I the idea of of this inthe Barry is that uh it depends
on the the income bracket you'rein, and also people think like,
(28:28):
well, a taxation is just from6th of April to the following
5th of April.
No, it's not.
It relates back to the previousyear and it also relates back
to the the coming year next yearas well.
For me, it's already athree-year cycle.
Is it is not from 6th of Aprilto the following 5th of April,
it is not so so you you gottalook at from the three-year
(28:49):
cycle point of view, and and uhand what personal income do you
need to survive, and uh and alsofor holidays and things like
that, and also what money youneed to extract from the
business to invest in certainareas.
So after doing that only, andyou can be sensible enough, and
if your profitab of thebusiness, if your net assets
(29:12):
shareholder funds allow you todo that, and if you cash in the
business, allow supports foryour working capital, then you
uh I suggest you to go aheaddown that route.
Um obviously when you'reinvesting in different areas, um
different areas, the thecompound effect is um is uh is
(29:33):
more so so you so um so here theidea is that uh you'd want to
be taking into account the routeof salary plus dividends plus
um kind of family um you knowcontribution to working in the
in the dental practice.
Obviously, they are doinggenuine work, you know, genuine
(29:53):
work, you know, maybe that'smarketing, maybe that's admin
work, maybe that's bookkeepingwork, but they got to be genuine
and and uh you can utilize thatand and you know, up to £50,000
you think back, you're payingtaxes at 20%.
So you want to do those kind ofthings.
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of this podcast.
Shishir (31:59):
Yeah, so this one is an interesting one, uh Barry.
You know, like uh so I wouldsay like your practice is like a
business, is like a vehiclethat supports you that how
you're building the wealth.
And the way you can buildwealth is actually by building
assets.
And what are the assets indental practice?
It's the activation that youhave in the business.
Number two, it you have thesubstitute for yourself.
(32:22):
That if you if you are doingmost of the clinical work, then
uh then uh when you do sell thebusiness, then the valuation
will be at least uh two timesless.
And that's how crucial it is.
And uh staff and um and and uhand and the and and all the
(32:43):
statement uh sorry, thestructure, the the systems and
processes in the business arecrucial part of the asset of the
business.
So at the end of the day,that's with what you're
studying.
So you want to be building theasset in the business rather
than just an income.
I'll give an example, Barry.
That one of our clients uh uhhe he cancelled a monthly call.
(33:05):
He says, I just got anopportunity to uh to do uh
implant for for uh for apatient, it's like 4,000 pounds
income.
And in like but I asked him,like, uh how old are you?
And so like I'm 52.
How long do you think you cando this?
You know, and going on for andsaid, I only have arthritis
(33:27):
problem, and I do that.
And and and the thing is, Isaid, like, but you have been
chained to the dental sheds.
In general, in top line only,if that is not healthy for you
and for your for your health andfor anybody, you know.
Because you're not keeping theprofit margin.
And I'm gonna show the maths interms of well, if you do the
(33:50):
work, then this is the theprofit that you make from the
business, but we let yourassociate do the work, so else
so he's gonna make 1304 pounds.
But if you make the if you dothe treatment, you make 2200
profit, and probably here's thedifference 800 pounds.
But imagine that you could getthree more patients of this one,
that covers that, isn't it?
(34:10):
Now you're no longer doing thework, someone is doing the work
for you, you still have somelevel of profit, but you got the
time back.
Yeah, and then that's that'scrucial.
Dr Barry (34:27):
Yeah, the one thing you can't get more of time.
You can always make more money,but you can't make more time.
Yes.
Shishir (34:36):
Yeah, so um so so so I think the wealth is uh is a big
concept and uh big concept.
And uh so when we're talkingabout wealth, and what what we
uh what we cover is like uh thecash flow in the business, so
that the the business issupported uh you know for the
(34:57):
working capital, and and what'sthe e-bit and the profitability
of the business, and uh what arethe things that you own that
last set to you, and uh and howyou're financing the business,
and how you uh look after thetax situation in all aspects,
and then what is the exit plan?
And these are the six areasthat we cover in terms of how
(35:20):
you build wealth from by usingbusiness as a vehicle.
Dr Barry (35:25):
Yeah, nice one, mate.
Um point number five out ofseven.
Uh again, this is me, right?
Because this is uh exactly whatI was like the hidden cost of
actually doing nothing.
Um, and what I mean, what Imean by that is that by not
taking any decisions, you don'tsee anything.
So you don't see anything inaction, absolutely, right?
(35:49):
It's because um it's one of thethings that's costing most of
us right now, but you can't seeit.
Um when you make a badfinancial decision, you find out
about it, right?
It shows up.
You either have somebodyknocking, phoning you going,
what the hell are you doing, orsomething else goes wrong and
you feel it.
(36:09):
But then at least you cancorrect it, at least you can get
the data, find out, and dosomething about it.
But when you make no decisionat all, when you leave the
structure as it was when youbought the practice, or you when
the early days that you put ittogether and you don't review
your salary situation or yourdividend split, when you never
set up pension contributions,nothing visibly bad ever
(36:32):
happens.
So you kind of just get on withit.
And like I said, it's reallyhard to get it wrong in
dentistry.
But the problem is the practicekeeps running, the money keeps
coming in, and then you don'tget a letter from the HMRC to
say, oh, by the way, you couldhave saved 25,000 quid, but the
cost is there and it's hidden.
And the gap between what youtook home and what you could
(36:53):
have taken home year after yearreally does compound and build
up.
And I've seen that in my owncareer.
I mentioned it earlier on.
Six figures probably that Iprobably left on an annual
basis.
And I've seen it in dozens ofpractices that I've coached.
The principals who suffer themost financially are not the
ones making bad calls, they'rethe ones not making any calls at
(37:13):
all, not making any decisions.
And they're basically runningtheir finances on autopilot, or
they did what I did, which wasto abdicate control to uh an
antiquated system run by lovelyaccountants, but run in, you
know, almost in reverse,certainly a year behind.
Um, so you know what what I'dlove to do, Shishir, is to hand
(37:36):
this bit over to you so that youcan kind of run through these
figures, right?
Which is the areas where thisshows up the most and the things
that ultimately when when we'reusing the software, it really
does bring these to theforefront so that they're not
hidden from the clients, right?
Shishir (37:54):
Yeah, and and uh one thing that we do uh run through
the clients, Barry, is we runthrough like tax A to G
checklists, you know, like basedon their circumstances, that
you know, so that nothing isleft behind, you know, like uh
you're doing things uh in the ina illicit way and and uh we
entirely do that.
Um but it's all start withplanning, you know, like it's
(38:18):
all start with planning, justlike treatment planning, there's
a property planning and there'sa tax planning.
Dr Barry (38:23):
Treatment planning, but we don't treatment plan our
money, do we?
Shishir (38:27):
Yeah, treatment planning your money, yeah.
That that's what's um you knowthat could be the difference
between having an additional£50,000 in the bank account in a
personal bank account afterpaying taxes, you know, like you
know, after a line for tax,personal taxes or not, you know,
that could be the difference.
Um uh two weeks ago I was at anevent and um I was at uh uh Dr.
(38:49):
Marie Shitney's trustedtreatment event in Winway's, and
and uh the guy came to me anduh he's a very successful guy,
he's very very good clinicalguy, and he showed me he told me
that he sold his practice to umbig DSOs and they paid him 75%
of the equity on what theyagreed on, and and for the few
(39:09):
years it was based on somecontingent of being 5% of
SLABCDE.
That didn't happen, he lostthat.
And in hindsight, he tells methat um you know if I had uh you
know known some of thisinformation, not from you, C if
I had just have this informationfrom somewhere just like you,
and things could have beendifferent, you know.
Things could have beendifferent.
It's just about beingknowledgeable in this area, not
(39:31):
to be just being in confined ina clinical room, you know.
Dr Barry (39:34):
And in the mate, that's but but to be fair, and I
don't know how many people knowmy history, but that's exactly
what happened to me.
Is that sold into sold into aDSO.
Shishir (39:44):
I didn't know that.
I I didn't I didn't know that,I didn't.
Dr Barry (39:46):
Sold into a DSO and the earnout, um, you know, we've
got a percentage up front, butthe earnout, 432,000, we didn't
get.
Uh, and we didn't get thatbecause I was wet behind the
ears, I didn't get the rightadvice, and I didn't really know
what to do.
And so when I say in thisstrategy that the cost is
hidden, that's exactly what Imean.
(40:07):
200,000 to 300,000 poundsconservatively over 10 years,
simply because nothing wasdecided.
And here's the bit actuallythat makes this strategy really
different from the others,because there is no skill
involved with this, right?
For me, there was no skillinvolved.
You don't have to learnanything, you don't have to take
a course, you just have to makea decision.
(40:28):
You make a decision, you pick adate, and you get some advice.
You get somebody qualified,which is not me, obviously, to
review your structure, give youradvice, and you do something
about it, whatever they find, sothat you can actually be
proactive, not reactive.
And I think as a principal, Iwas reactive to my finances, not
proactive.
And if you are watching thisand you think that's probably
(40:50):
me, make a decision and dosomething about it.
Because it doesn't have to beyou that pulls the data, the
software that does it, there'speople that can do it, but don't
just rely on your accountantsgiving you information that is
six to 12 months, if not longer,behind.
Because if you do somethingnow, it will have a massive
effect moving forward year onyear on year.
(41:12):
Um yeah.
Shishir (41:14):
Yeah, but uh we talked upon this uh this idea of you
know restorative dentistryversus you know like you know,
like preventive dentistry is thesame thing, you know.
Um so yeah, we we want to beproactive in into um planning
the the treatments uh for ourpatients, and and same thing
that we want to do with with thewith how you uh do proactively
(41:38):
plan your business,profitability business, so that
the the taxes and and the cashsituation is based on that
figure.
Dr Barry (41:47):
You know, well you just said profit and cash.
Jump onto that one briefly,mate, because we've got two more
points to go.
Um explain cash flow versusprofit.
Shishir (41:58):
Okay, here's the uh simple way of explaining profit
versus cash flow.
Um, well, cash flow is iscollection, so this is what you
keep in the till, like moneygets collected, and profit is
what you do the treatment on.
But isn't that the same thing?
You know, it is not uh becauseuh what profit is based on
(42:19):
revenue and revenue is earned,not received.
So it's based on what you dothe treatment on.
It's a bit like um teeth versusgums, Barry, you know.
So yeah, they're just part ofthe oral health, you know, like
uh teeth is like uh you know,you never held the teeth.
I mean that's your profitbecause that is like that's the
(42:41):
teeth of the business, right?
That's the teeth of the uh ofthe mouth.
But the gums is the oneactually holding the teeth.
Without gums, it does not holdthe it doesn't hold the teeth.
And how do I know?
Because I lost all my teeth in2019 uh due to severe
periodental disease.
That that's how I knew.
(43:01):
You know, I I first experiencedthat in the same way that's in
the business, it will not holdthe business.
Dr Barry (43:10):
So, mate, ex explain the three that you explained to
me the three things thateverybody needs to know so that
they can take that away withthem tonight.
Shishir (43:19):
Yes, so uh when it comes to uh property cash flow,
what you want to be tracking onis you want to be tracking on
the net profit versus net cashflow month by month.
And you want to be reviewingevery quarter, and you want to
be seeing like a line graph thattells you here's the net profit
line, and here's your net cashflow line, which one is higher,
(43:42):
which one is going in whatdirection?
That tells you where theproblem is happening.
So uh this way of like uh youcan just build a simple
spreadsheet just to track youruh cash flow from operation
point of view, how you run thebusiness, from an investment
point of view, what bit uh moneyis invested in the business
from an investor point of view,and from a financing point of
(44:04):
view, how the business isfinance, and you'll find out
what is your net cash flow.
Net cash simply just means howmuch money you kept in the in
the business in that say in thatmonth.
Whereas how much profit youmade, which is you can't
actually see it because youcan't spend profit very, you
know.
So you need cash in thebusiness.
So both are important, and bothare important, but you won't be
(44:27):
seeing which one is uh goinghigher and which one is heading
in which direction.
I think that would be the umthe single biggest thing that
the business owner should belooking at on a regular basis.
And if I have to pick onenumber from of all the numbers
of all the numbers, I would justpick one number, which is net
(44:48):
cash flow every month.
How much cash you are keepingin the business, not from a bank
balance brought forward, justfrom how much you received, how
much you paid, how much youkept.
If that's growing, and it's agood sign that you know, unless
you you unless the money hasbeen plot from investor point of
(45:10):
view, that's that's a separateissue.
I'm just talking aboutcategorically from uh from an
operation point of view.
Yeah.
Dr Barry (45:17):
Nice, nice.
Final point.
Uh the final strategy is have aplan, guys.
Um have a 12 month game plan.
Uh don't be looking back, don'tbe steering your ship with a
your financial ship with a rearview mirror.
Um and plan ahead.
Take this, we'll give you theseslides.
(45:38):
A 12 month game plan reallyreplaces, you know, you're gonna
Have a rhythm to it.
It's not complicated, just hasto be there, has to exist.
And this is what we recommend: this kind of monthly review, (45:48):
undefined
quarterly review, and thenannually.
We're looking for three monthsout.
Why three months out?
Because you want to be lookingat pension contributions,
equipment timing, associaterestructuring.
With our software, Dem Pulse,every single one of my clients
(46:11):
has been in a situation torenegotiate their associate
contracts because data doesn'tlie.
It's not a 47.5% finger in theair.
It's actually we know that inorder for us to make a profit,
you need to gross £1,827 a day.
And if you can do that, you canhave 45%.
You also then want to belooking at dividend timing.
(46:32):
And then we would be doing twoannual sessions and done well,
they are worth tens of thousandsof pounds.
So, in brief, all seven things,right?
Profit isn't what you think,right?
Four numbers, not one.
Separate yourself from thebusiness.
Do that now.
Think about owner versusoperator.
I have a training programcalled owner versus operator,
(46:54):
and it's an identity shift andit's one that you can do quite
quickly.
Use tax efficiency ladder forsalary, dividends, pension, and
wrapping up.
Treat the practice as a wealthengine, not just an income.
Recognize the hidden cost ofdoing nothing.
Make a decision, get on withit, because you can always
course correct.
If you're not doing something,then you're just kind of
(47:16):
drifting.
Manage your cash flow, not justyour profit.
Three numbers that you alwaysneed to know and run a financial
game plan.
Now, knowing isn't doing.
What's needed is structure.
Let me just briefly introduceyou to what uh Shishir and I
have now got and we offer, andit's Dent Pulse.
(47:37):
We are actually launching thisuh at the Business of Dentistry
with uh Sir James of Martin.
Uh and Dent Pulse is a geniuspiece of software that Shishir
has worked on for over fouryears as a CFO and a certified
chartered accountant, and it's afinancial operating system for
(47:57):
practices and for groups.
It is 100% data-driven.
It combines your PMS with yourfinancial software, whether you
are software of excellence,dentally, systems for dentists,
whether you use iPlicit,QuickBooks, or Xero, it connects
those things together.
And the idea is it gives youinstant clarity, control, and
(48:19):
confidence.
And our aim is to support youguys with it to maximize your
profit, minimize your tax,mobilize cash flow to accelerate
wealth effortlessly.
We have a cash flow module, wehave a tax module, we have an
associate ranking system, itdoes it all for you.
And we just wanted to make youone offer up until the business
(48:42):
of dentistry.
There is a, if you'reinterested in this, we're gonna
um get you to book a demo,right?
And have a conversation with usand we'll talk you through it.
But we have two offers foranybody signing up up until
midnight of the business ofdentistry.
And that is a no-contract-basedwhere you have a setup fee.
Uh, it's discounted for 1500quid, and currently there's no
(49:05):
VAT because we're not vattable,then it's 197 a month.
Or if you don't want to pay thesetup fee, that's absolutely
fine.
You sign with us just for 12months, then it's a rolling one
month at 249.
If you are interested, then wehave that early bird kind of
early entry level because, likeI said, we're launching on the
(49:25):
9th, and we'd like to give youthat opportunity.
That QR code will enable you tobook a demonstration of the
software.
You can also uh we'll havetestimonials from our existing
clients who are working with it,operating with it, and already
finding the incredible benefitof having up to the day.
It it literally updates everyminute because everything is
(49:48):
connected through APIs.
And so our recommendation isyou've already got something
valuable.
Make sure that the value flowsback to you.
Uh, James, thank you, mate.
Uh, are there any questions?
We'd be happy to take them.
Dr James (50:02):
Hey, listen, uh, thank you guys.
I think the thanks go the otherway.
And you know what we can do atthe very least, guys.
I'm gonna try to balance alaptop here and do a little clap
uh for Barry and Sick here uhfor sharing everything that they
shared this evening.
And you know what?
It's when you run a business,right?
Like there's no exaggeration tosay uh that if you get on top
(50:23):
of this stuff, there's five, sixfigures in the business.
You already see what goesthrough the bank account.
So it's just it's optimizingthat, and that's what's the
value lies.
And you know what?
If it doesn't, don't do it.
But but uh the point is that wewouldn't be talking about this
stuff, is even if we didn'tthink it was that powerful.
It's all about the individual,just weigh it up.
And the key thing I'd like toemphasize, which is actually one
(50:43):
of the reasons I started DennisWho Invest, is the point of
doing this, is you don't have towork any harder for it.
I think people equate moremoney with working harder in
their heads.
What we're really talking aboutis optimizing things.
But yes, anyway, Sishier Barry,thank you so much for that.
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