April 9, 2026 • 35 mins
UK Dentists: Collect your verifiable CPD for this episode here >>> https://courses.dentistswhoinvest.com/smart-money-members-club
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If your dental marketing is “working” but your books are not filling, the problem is rarely the ads. We sit down with Dr Ravil Doshi, a dentist who built a highly successful practice and achieved a multi-seven figure exit, to get practical about what drives real growth in a UK dental practice: conversion, culture, and systems that do not collapse when one person is off sick.
We unpack why practice owners so often feel stuck after investing in SEO, pay-per-click, and social media ads, and how to build a patient journey where every team member knows what to say, when to say it, and how to move the patient forward. We also explore the idea of a communication stack, how to spot bottlenecks using simple KPIs, and where AI can already help by reviewing call quality and identifying missed opportunities.
Associates get plenty here too. We talk about the invisible “treatment plan wall” that caps earning potential, how to present comprehensive options ethically, and how to build trust so patients do not feel they are being sold to. Finally, we get into bigger-picture practice management: growth systems, the role of vision, when buying another practice is actually the right move, and what it takes to build an associate-led practice even with as few as three surgeries.
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Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education purposes only and does not constitute an investment recommendation or individual financial advice. For that, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up, so you may get back less than you invest. The views expressed on this channel may no longer be current. The information provided is not a personal recommendation for any particular investment. Tax treatment depends on individual circumstances and all tax rules may change in the future. If you are unsure about the suitability of an investment, you should speak to a regulated, independent professional. Investment figures quoted refer to simulated past performance and that past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results/performance.
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Episode Transcript
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Dr James (01:43):
Another episode of Dentist Who Invest podcast
today.
I'm joined by Dr.
Rahul Doshi.
Dr.
Rahul is a dentist who is verysuccessful with his own dental
practice.
He worked towards andeventually achieved a
multi-seven figure exit.
Now, Dr.
Rahul shares his knowledge bycoaching and mentoring to other
dentists who are on that journeyas well, whether they're
(02:03):
working towards exit themselvesor they just want to leverage
their business a little bit moreto get back to time and life.
This episode will be valuablewhether you're an associate or a
principal because we're goingto be covering some pointers
that are useful to both thoseparties in this episode.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
(02:24):
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All of this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then on completion of each
lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
(02:45):
on your dental indemnity and a5% discount on lab bills for
dental principals, amongst otherperks and discounts for
members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Dr.
Rahul, we know each other fromthe internet, I suppose you
(03:06):
could say, uh, given that we gotto talking over Facebook some
time ago.
But what I was very interestedto learn more and more and more
about is how you help Denniswhenever it comes to leveraging
themselves out of their businessa little bit more.
And I understand you've got alittle bit of a formula to doing
this.
Is that fair to say, Rahul?
Dr Rahul (03:26):
Yeah, the formula is there, but it's almost like a
guideline of what people need todo.
Um, and then it becomes verybespoke to that specific
practice, and that's reallyimportant.
Um, because not all formulaswill be suitable or exactly the
same way for every singlepractice.
So having tailor-made for thatspecific patient type, um, um
(03:47):
team, the type of dentistry thatthey do, the type of dentistry
they want to do is superimportant.
Dr James (03:54):
Yeah, 100%.
And I've actually been theremyself a little bit.
It's like that's where theskill comes in, I guess.
Because if it was just a sh uha cookie-cutter formula, well
then you could just give someonea PDF of a protocol and they
could follow it, right?
But it's not quite as simple asthat.
It's the same with dentistry aswell.
Having a protocol for animplant is completely different
to actually doing an implant, ofcourse.
(04:15):
It's an adjunct.
So I can completely,completely, completely
understand that.
And maybe what it could be goodto do is talk a little bit.
Maybe where we should kickthings off here on this podcast
is maybe talk a little bit aboutwhat you see dentists
struggling out there withwhenever it comes to their
business, both associates whocan think of themselves as a
(04:37):
business within a business, andalso principals as well.
Dr Rahul (04:41):
Sure.
So let's start with principles.
This is probably a little biteasier.
Principles come to me becausethey are um investing in the
marketing.
The marketing isn't actuallybringing the type of patient
that they want to see, andtherefore there is a conversion
issue.
The conversion issue probablyexists because there isn't a
(05:05):
really uh sophisticated salesjourney, communication journey,
patient journey, or patientinteraction that actually tries
to look at every single patienttype to get them to become a
patient.
Um, and the reason for thatoften then goes back to um the
team.
The team aren't actually um theway probably they probably need
(05:28):
to behave in a in an alignedmanner towards a specific vision
um with a specific culture.
And that's often the reason whythings don't work out.
So eventually it always fallsback onto creating an amazing
team, a high performance teamthat actually is really aligned
(05:49):
to growing the practice.
So you're not just actuallypulling the team to grow the
practice, but actually they areworking with you to take the
practice aligned to your visionand are really motivated with
the vision and part of thevision, and and and then you can
actually put in the patientjourney and then switch on the
marketing and take the ROI ofthe marketing spent to another
(06:11):
level and then get the type ofpatients you want.
Hope that makes sense.
Dr James (06:14):
It it it absolutely makes sense.
And listen, you're preachingthe choir a little bit on that
one because I have friends whorun marketing companies, and the
classic tug-of-war against, Iguess, of energies between the
marketing companies and thedental practices themselves is
whenever the marketing companiesgenerate the leads, the dental
(06:35):
practices say the lead qualityis bad, but the marketing
companies say that the front ofhouse team aren't always
converting them as well as theyshould be.
And the answer usually, inessence, lies somewhere between
those two.
Uh the actual truth is kind ofsomewhere between those two
things.
But what what we can do isDennis is definitely maximize
our odds, right, of being ableto convert those leads, whatever
(06:55):
quality they are, and at leastwe can then say, right, we've
tidied up on this, basically.
But we'll we'll come back tothat in just a second.
Maybe it could be good to talkabout the associates briefly,
what they struggle with.
Dr Rahul (07:05):
Sure, actually, and before we come to the
associates, let's just go backto one more step that is
important in this space, andthat is actually we actually
teach them how to look atmarketing properly, how to
actually write their ads or howthey should look at ads written
by their agencies, how to lookat SEO campaigns, how to look at
pay-per-click campaigns, how tolook at um social media ads,
(07:26):
how to look at social media, sothat when they're working with
actual agencies, they canactually hold the agencies
accountable and also now takeownership and control, as
opposed to often the feeling isthat if they invest in
something, whether it's um umanything, whether it's an
equipment or whether it's amarketing agency, they feel that
(07:47):
suddenly there'll be anincrease in upturn, in revenue,
in new patients, etc.
And that's not necessarily thecase.
Here they can take actuallythey can outsource everything,
but also be in control as well.
Dr James (07:59):
Ooh, okay, nice.
Makes complete sense.
And yeah, maybe we should uh weshould we should cover those
associates very briefly, andthen I don't I'm actually
itching to ask a few thingsabout that, but yeah, maybe we
should cover those associatesvery briefly.
Dr Rahul (08:12):
Yeah, and with the associates, really, they are
sometimes lost in the directionof where they want to head to.
That's often the main thingonce we fix that.
The second thing is actuallythe communication to actually um
present the most comprehensivetreatment plan to their
patients, aligned to the styleof dentistry that they want to
(08:33):
do.
So you'll see some dentistswant to do more implants, some
want to do more cosmeticdentistry, some want to do more
aligner treatment, some justwant to do general dentistry.
And how do they do more of it?
Or why don't the patients goahead with their treatment plans
that they suggest?
And often they are limited tosuggesting um this limited
amount of treatment plansbecause they are in that
(08:57):
uncomfortable zone of presentingtreatment plans over a specific
value.
So everybody has a wall, a wallof um a barrier, shall I say,
to the amount of a treatmentvalue that they are happy
presenting to a patient.
For some dentists, it's 500pounds, some 2,000 pounds, some
five, some 10, some 15, some 20,some 30.
(09:19):
How do you break through thebarrier to then give the most
comprehensive treatment planthat's ethical um that will be
really suitable for the patientthat the patients then say yes
to?
Dr James (09:31):
You know, there's a really uh well, actually, before
I jump into that, just tocomment on what you've just
said, it's it it there's alwaysthere's an amount of money in
everybody's head, and it'sdifferent for each one of us,
that we think to ourselves, ohshit, that's a lot of money,
right?
And it's a subconscious thingmore than more than anything
else.
And whilst it's not to say thatwe shouldn't listen to that to
(09:53):
a degree, because ultimatelythere's going to be a limit
somewhere, we also need torealise that it is a subjective
thing and it may not be accurateif we think that, yeah.
So busting through that isactually one of the biggest
things that you can keep thatcan keep you where you are by
way of maintaining you at acertain income, because all our
brains, every single one of us,our brains are calibrated to
(10:15):
believe and expect we shouldearn a certain level of income.
And the moment we bust out ofthat or go above that, we feel
slightly uncomfortable.
So I guess a big part of thatis realising that's part of the
process and journey, and havingsomeone like yourself can be
very reassuring because you cansay, Hey, do you know what this
is actually fine?
And for the level of work thatyou're doing, this is what
people would charge, andeverything along those lines,
(10:36):
and that can make a hugedifference.
It's slot, it sounds slightlywishy-washy, but it can
definitely make a massivedifference, and I guess that
would apply to the theprinciples as well as the
associates, of course, as well.
It lives inside all of ourheads, every anybody who charges
people that lives in your headto a degree.
But yes, anyway, back to theprinciples because one thing I
(10:56):
was itching to ask you based onwhat you were saying just a
second ago, is how can you tellthat your team are not
necessarily as how can I saythis, adequately skilled as they
should be when it comes toconverting those leads into
bumzone seats in the chair.
Any red flags.
Dr Rahul (11:18):
Okay, so the the the important part is that if you
are reliant on a single teammember um within a practice, and
and that's often the case, itmight be in practices such as
the treatment coordinated, mightbe the reception, or it might
be the dentist themselves, thensuddenly you have a bottleneck
of who can convert.
That's the first thing.
If you then if instead, if youcreate a journey where actually
(11:43):
every single person is involvedin actually can talking to the
patient, but all aligned.
So everybody knows what they'resaying, when they're saying it,
what you know, um, and and whatto say at any moment in time.
You then create what you call acommunication stack where
patients are going through ajourney, understanding snippets
of information aligned to thetype of treatment that they are
(12:04):
probably looking for.
So when they come to the end ofthat journey, they totally
understand everything.
So what you're then looking atis really at every single phase,
how does that journey changeand evolve?
And you're looking at everystage.
So you do look at metrics atevery stage, right from
reception to TCO, TCO todentist, dentist to conversion,
(12:26):
and then you'll figure outexactly where those bottlenecks
are uh in terms of conversion.
Dr James (12:31):
Interesting.
Okay, so those are the thoseare the red flags, so to speak.
And I I actually have a littleside note, uh, a side tangent,
Aku, uh, on this.
How do you think AI is gonnahelp us deal with those things?
Or do you think it's at thatlevel yet?
Because AI can remove thebottleneck if it can handle
multiple calls at once, intheory.
Dr Rahul (12:49):
AI can help understand the quality of the call.
So that's what that's availableright now.
Many entities are actuallypromoting that right now, where
the calls are screened, you getan idea of whether you've built
trust, you've built arelationship, you've understood
the patient, whether you'vegiven correct options, you've
then whether you've closedappropriately, and whether the
(13:12):
patient books ahead or not.
And then they'll figure out ifthey don't book, what could be
the reasons why they haven'tbooked, and they give
suggestions.
So that is where AI helps.
If the AI takes over the call,that might be initially
challenging, we're probably notthere yet, but it probably will
evolve to that eventually in thefuture, where the actual tone,
(13:32):
the voice, the relationshipbuilding is really smooth and
seamless.
Dr James (13:37):
Gotcha.
All right, cool.
So the very first thing, inyour opinion, or one of the
biggest things that you wouldsuggest to people is to remove
the bottleneck.
And I I I I agree with that,right?
Because the receptionist iswearing so many different hats.
She's trying to keep thepatients, he or she is trying to
keep the patients happy, uh,and they are uh obviously uh
booking people back in, uh, youknow, rearranging appointments
(13:59):
as they need to need to, and inaddition to that, they're also
handling lead flow as well.
So it makes complete sense thatthis is just not gonna work.
Okay, cool.
So that's the biggestbottleneck.
And then how do we qualify thepeople that we're gonna hire to
handle these roles?
How do we qualify them?
What should we look for interms of them being able to in
terms of their CVs that we knowthat they're gonna be able to be
(14:22):
adept at this at this job?
Any green flags that you canthink of?
Dr Rahul (14:26):
So actually, and then we go to the green flags.
Dr James (14:29):
Yeah, okay, red flags and green.
Let's do it that way.
Let's do it that way.
Dr Rahul (14:33):
Red flags are, and I get this, you know, the first
thing I look at is how oftenhave they moved from job to job.
So people who've been at a jobevery year at a different place,
you know that there issomething that's making them
move every single time.
So that's a big red flag to me.
The green flag is reallysomebody who just shows
attitude, commitment, whoactually wants to be there,
(14:54):
wants to improve, and is andshows passion and excitement in
your conversations.
Or if you ask them to come overto spend half a day to see how
your practice works, and they'llbe more than keen to do that,
and they want to help out andit'll improve.
So that's those are massivegreen flags.
So I I I I don't really look atthe skill level because skill
can be taught, but the attitudeand commitment can't.
Dr James (15:17):
Yeah, you know, there's a very interesting Gary
V podcast I was listening toonce.
Shout out Gary Gary V ifanybody knows him, and he was
like, he would hire people withA-grade attitudes and B grade
skill sets if it came to thatall day long, uh, or at least
because he knows that with agreat attitude the skill set can
evolve.
Whereas someone with an A-gradeskill set and a C grade
(15:38):
attitude, it's just not gonnawork because yes, they might be
good, but as things move on anddevelop and they need to learn
new stuff, well, they're notgonna be as adept at that or
willing to do that because ofjust because of their
personality effectively.
So I definitely think that'sthat's that's that's certainly a
very valuable thing to say.
Okay, so that that's for theprinciples whenever it comes to
the whole how can we say this?
Uh yeah, you know, removing thebottleneck and getting the most
(16:00):
out of our marketing andeverything along those lines,
and it makes complete sense.
It's it's just it's so valuableto just have it laid out and
pinpointed like this is exactlywhat usually goes wrong in your
experience.
Would you say that that's themain one or any other things
people can improve on a tightenup on to get the most out of
their marketing?
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Dr Rahul (18:08):
I I I think yeah, I think what I mentioned was the
three things.
And I think understandingmarketing, most people don't
understand marketing, and Ialluded to that earlier.
They literally think that theylook at either an ad on either
Facebook or get a recommendationor they listen to somebody and
they trust a lot, a lot of moneyto them on a monthly basis,
hoping, and it's a hope thatthey will get the right type of
(18:31):
patients.
But if they start understandingmarketing, if they're
understanding what the actualheadline should be, the
description should be, what theactual um plan should be, how
the actual stats work, whatstats to look at, what stats not
to look at, then they areactually become you know in
control and in tune.
The actual um marketeersactually then start respecting
those principles and workharder.
(18:52):
It's almost congruent to labwork.
When dentists send goodimpressions or scans to the lab,
the lab will send back goodwork.
And if they are critical ofwhat the um um technician is
doing, they'll send good work.
If the dentist is laid back andthe scans or impressions are
poor, you're gonna get poorwork.
Um and you're just hoping thatthe work will be okay.
(19:14):
So it's a similar analogy.
Dr James (19:17):
Makes sense.
And then let's just brieflyrefer back to the associates for
two seconds because you just uhlike I also believe, you
believe that communication isthe biggest thing that helps
them whenever it comes towhenever it comes to being able
to improve their income orimprove the the their
(19:37):
profitability.
And of course that's not theonly thing.
Obviously, you have to bereally good at clinical
dentistry and do right by thepatient as well, but you
literally just looking at thispurely from the point of view of
an economics uh standpoint.
Communication is the one foryou, which I which I also agree
with.
What what are what are in yourexperience, what are the
associates doing that stops themfrom hitting that next level
(19:58):
whenever it comes to income?
Anything specific or any commonclangers, I guess, that seem to
occur in your experience?
Dr Rahul (20:05):
Yeah, so I mean two or three things.
One is actually a mindset thingyou mentioned earlier on.
So they may have this mindsetissue that um there is a limit
to what they can present.
The second is actually creatinga structure, a system of how
they communicate with all thepatients.
And it's almost like goingthrough a journey that they
actually have with a patientthat they repeat again and
(20:27):
again.
Um, they're building thattrust, building the
relationship.
They often miss that out.
So people don't go ahead orpurchase anything when they
don't have a relationship.
I'm not talking about buildingsocial relationships, I'm
talking about buildingrelationships of trust,
knowledge, experience, andguiding the patient to exactly
what they are, what they want.
And also, sales now is such abig study that most patients
(20:53):
know when they're being sold.
So when when communicationisn't done in an um ethical way
where you really care about thepatients, patients can see
through that.
And that's a massive red flagwhere people will walk away
because they feel that beingsold to.
So it's removing the sales outof that communication and really
looking at being interested inthe patient before actually um
(21:15):
presenting treatment plans.
Dr James (21:17):
Lovely Jovely.
And maybe a good cool thing tocover right now would be aside
from the marketing side ofthings, which is obviously very
important for principals, whatother bottlenecks do you feel
they come up against whenever itcomes to improving their
practice or what are the commonissues that you see them
struggle with aside from themarketing side of things?
Dr Rahul (21:35):
So when people look at systems within a practice,
they're often looking atoperational systems and looking
at efficiencies, and the focusis always on the how how do they
potentially reduce expenses orthe overheads.
But really is to create systemsthat encourage growth, growth
in all areas of the practice.
And how do you create systemsthat encourage growth within the
(21:57):
practice in all facets of howthe practice works?
And that then actually leads toa the practice evolving on a
constant basis, changing, andthat change will obviously lead
to the practice earning moremoney.
Dr James (22:10):
Are you a fan of the emith?
Dr Rahul (22:12):
Um, yeah, working on the business as opposed to in
the business, absolutely.
Dr James (22:16):
Great book.
Every business owner needs toread that.
Did you know there's a dentalversion as well?
Yeah, I I I didn't know that,yes.
Oh, you did or didn't?
Sorry, I didn't catch that.
No, no, I did, I did.
Oh, you did, you did, yeah.
There you go.
I don't I know of it, I knowthat it exists.
I believe it's written by uhsomeone based in America.
Dr Rahul (22:35):
So hopefully it's Michael Gerber read it and wrote
the original version, and thereare variances of that because
he gave out licenses todifferent um um sort of uh
professions to actually workwith him and take that sort of
um ownership of that.
Dr James (22:50):
Ah, I didn't I didn't know that, so that's the history
of it basically.
Yeah, there's there's a dentalversion, so shout out to that.
If anybody's not read theemoth, I'd highly encourage them
to read it because you'll seethere's there's there's how you
see business before it and howyou see business after it, in my
opinion.
And that's coming from theperson who had spent a lot of
time around people who had readit.
(23:11):
And I I personally thought Ispent so much time with people
who had read it that I was like,okay, I kind of get what it's
gonna say.
And then that put me offreading it for like two years,
and then I did eventually readit, and then I was like, okay,
this is actually amazing.
I wish I would have done thissooner because I appreciated it
in so much more detail,basically.
Uh so yeah, shout out that bookfor anybody who's a business
owner, not even just a businessowner as well, associates.
(23:32):
I think should read it.
I think everybody should readit, basically.
But yeah, very good book.
But yes, um, where were we?
So for you, systems andprocesses are the big bottleneck
for for.
uh practice owners out there.
And Rahul, one thing I'd reallylove to get into as well, which
I think will be reallyinteresting, how does your
methodology or your is iscoaching a a word you could use,
(23:54):
I guess, really?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So how does how does it howdoes it change based on where
someone is at relative to theirlife cycle as a dentist, I
guess?
Like how does it change ifsomeone's just starting out?
They've just they're yet to buya practice or they've just
bought one, maybe middle oftheir career, or maybe coming
more towards exit.
Dr Rahul (24:15):
Yeah, so I think the key thing is that the people
who've just bought a practice,they're often inundated in all
the operational systems and theydon't focus on the team.
They don't focus on the salesthey don't focus on the
marketing.
They don't focus on the growth.
And they've been taught certainthings.
But when you've actually doneit for decades and actually done
(24:35):
it for multiple practices ofyour own or done it for other
practices and you've seen thesuccess, you know exactly what
to install to make thesepractices actually increase
their revenue by triple,quadruple or five times very
easily.
And that just changes reallywho they are in terms of as
people, in terms of the time offthat they have because now
they've got that certainty ofincome that's coming in which
(24:58):
they didn't previously for thepractices that are established
that they often plateau.
And when you plateau and thereare practices around you that
are growing suddenly thatbecomes a disparity between your
practice and theirs becausetheirs is growing yours is
flatlining and there's adifferential that differential
keeps on growing.
So it's really now knowing whatyou need to do to actually go
(25:21):
back and become even better thanyou were before.
So you're not only um uhclosing that gap but actually
even overtaking it significantlyso that then helps that
practice speed the competitionin the area and finally most
practice owners actually theexit is a big thing because
they've worked hard in thepractice for so many years.
You want to get the max valueout of it.
(25:42):
And the max value you get isreally by increasing that epith.
The epitha is focused onincreasing the turnover and of
course you can reduce theexpenses but really is how do
you create a sustainablebusiness that people will love
to buy and that not onlyincreases the actual epith but
the multiple as well because thepractice will look be looked
upon favorably if all the facetsof the vision the culture the
(26:06):
sales the actual marketing theKPIs are all in place.
Dr James (26:11):
Okay boom good good to know good to know and then
there was oh there was what wasit that was in my head just a
second ago that is going toannoy the heck out of me just to
follow on from that I think Ithink the yeah having one mind
on the having one eye on theeBit that is obviously what's
going to allow you to improveyour multiple and then get the
(26:33):
biggest you know get a biggerexit.
Not that it's all about thatobviously you want to safeguard
the patients as well or that wasit it was it's just come back
to me.
The age world question I thinka lot of dentists struggle with
and it'll be interesting to hearyour take on this you know
you've got a principalreasonably successful practice
going well and they start tothink to themselves okay how can
I take this to the next levelwhat what should I do and I
(26:55):
think a lot of dentists andprincipals out there equate that
with let me buy anotherpractice right and sometimes I
see their practice and I thinkto myself do you know what you
probably make just as much moneyif not more if you just really
nailed some basic things in yourfirst practice right like
you're buying this otherpractice you're taking on a
whole load more debt you'retrying to make an extra hundred
(27:18):
grand but there's three hundredgrand of profit up in the same
practice with virtually noincrease in your overheads
whatsoever.
Dr Rahul (27:25):
What's your thoughts on that Rahul when is when is
the right time to purchase apractice versus just focusing on
what you have yeah the righttime is actually when you when
you think you've maxed out whatyou've done in your practice in
terms of you know that you'recharging um your treatment plans
are comprehensive yourmarketing is really smooth and
slick your team are really slickyou've got systems for
(27:47):
leadership you've got systemsfor sales you've got systems for
marketing and more importantlyyou have a vision a vision that
actually aligns you your teamand your patients everybody
knows where you're going.
So it's it's say we look at anany industry outside um the
dental area and say we can lookat cars.
So if you look at certainbrands you will know what those
(28:09):
brands represent you know what aFord represents to people you
know what a Mercedes representsto people you know what a Rolls
Royce represents to people andnot just the people who are
looking to buy but peopleworking there.
And once you've got that visionwhich is formulated and you've
got all these sales marketingand the team working well that's
then the right time to look atsomething else.
(28:30):
But often people don't getthose things and and actually
one of the key things in theformula that I haven't mentioned
is the vision.
The vision is one of the keythings that we work on we
challenge practice owners on andthat's where 90% or 95% of the
people are going wrong.
And that's where actually usbeing involved with them in
actually creating a laser sharpvision that really everybody
(28:52):
feels aligned to is one of thekey things that actually is this
bug to their growth.
Dr James (28:56):
Nice.
And you know another thing thatcomes up as well which is very
popular amongst principals and alot of them would love to know
how this works is a lot of themwant to leverage their
businesses a little bit more toget back a bit more time.
Right.
And I think a lot of them signup to having a business with
that view in mind where they canuh separate time and money a
(29:19):
little bit but it doesn't alwayspan out and maybe sometimes
they're working just as much ormore than ever maybe earning a
little bit more money but evennot even necessarily that always
being the case as well a lot ofthem feel that the way that you
can progress things that theycan progress their practice more
(29:41):
towards them having a littlebit more of their life and time
back is to make it moreassociate led.
But I've heard a lot ofprincipals who come to me and
say James I don't think mypractice can be associate led I
I just don't think that that'spossible where I am or based on
my location or everything alongthose lines and things well just
stuff like that things alongthose lines effectively so I
(30:02):
guess what I'm asking you Rahulis how practiceable or realistic
is it that your average Joblogsdentist can achieve an
associate led practice or isthat really only reserved for
the the very lucky fewprincipals that eventually make
it there?
Is the difference the setup thelocation things that are beyond
their control or do you thinkin your opinion that actually
(30:25):
most dentists can achieve itwith the right systems and
processes and enacting thethings that you talked about
just a second ago?
Dr Rahul (30:31):
Okay that's a really great question.
And actually so when I had myown practices I I I was one of
the pioneers of crossmakingdentistry I paid a lot of
national media including TVseries of people thought they
were coming to see me.
And yet I the patients were notjust seeing me they were seeing
my team my associates workingthere.
So when when somebody who'swell known is actually giving
(30:55):
their patients to other dentistscan do it then general dentists
giving other their patients totheir their colleagues is is
pretty straightforward.
What there are there are twoaspects of it one aspect is you
as a practice owner need to beconfident that the associates
are really good clinically.
And that means that they needclinical mentoring um and that's
(31:18):
one of the things that we dohelp with.
But the second thing is alsothere's a mindset thing that the
principals have my patientsonly want to see me.
They've been with me with mefor the last 10 years 15 years
20 years.
They won't see anybody else andhow do those conversations
occur and then those principlesare limited to doing not the
type of dentistry that they wantto do but just servicing that
(31:40):
relationship as opposed to maybedoing the type of dentistry
that they want to do more of Ihope that makes sense.
Dr James (31:47):
It does yeah so you're saying that it's a lot more
achievable than peoplenecessarily realize and a lot of
it is how they think and evenjust I think it's just routine
as well they're just so used toand trained to expect to go to
the clinic and have to work uhnine to five that they maybe
don't even question that realitysometimes like is there
actually something else outthere that's better for me or
(32:10):
can be done so I think it startswith realizing that it's
possible first and then you canstart to explore it.
Do you think there's a magicnumber in terms of formulas in a
dental practice in terms sorrydo you think there's a magic
formula or number in terms ofnumber of surgeries in a dental
practice there's like a minimumexpected number of surgeries
that someone can have in orderfor them to become associate led
like three surgeries, foursurgeries or what are your
(32:32):
thoughts on that?
Dr Rahul (32:34):
Yeah I I think you need to have three surgeries
really before you start umbringing associates in because I
I see a lot of people wherethey work in their own practice
and they work as associateselsewhere because the cash flow
in their own practice islimited.
So the number one thing is thatthey have to become the their
practice has to really be makingmoney before even they think of
(32:54):
associates and relinquish alltheir associates jobs themselves
elsewhere.
That's the number one rule.
The second thing is that youneed three rooms one for what
you do one for potentiallyhygienist therapists to take
over some of the basic stuff andthen you're ready for the
associate to come in.
And sometimes it it's easiereven for the principal to work
(33:16):
from a couple of rooms wherethey dovetail between different
rooms but that's another story.
Dr James (33:21):
Nice okay and in your experience what a out of your
experience out of looking atlots of different dental
practices what is the smallestdental practice that you've seen
achieve associate led for youknow associate led status as it
would you say it's like threefour surgeries or does it need
you need to have minimum threethree will work I've I've seen I
(33:41):
I've seen practices wherethey've actually quadrupled
their growth by having justthree rooms so um three rooms is
definitely achievable.
Dr Rahul (33:49):
It's not impossible and also remember as the
practice grows um not in the umum number of surgeries but as
you grow by your revenue growsand the style of dentistry you
you do grows and your marketingstarts working the principals
also will be looking at doingless days and getting time off
so although also also thatbuilds up sort of capacity
(34:10):
within the practice as well butobviously four and more is ideal
but the three will definitelywork.
Dr James (34:16):
But that's so valuable to know because I see so many
principals out there who arelike oh I've only got three or
four surgeries I need more thanthat to get to get the margins
that I need to become associateled.
So you saying that actuallythere are people out there who's
achieved this is definitely alittle bit of a mindset shift
I'm sure for some of thelisteners to this podcast.
Ravel you've been very generouswith your time and knowledge
(34:37):
and wisdom today on the podcastif anybody wants to find out
more about you and what they doand what you do sorry where are
they best off finding you?
Dr Rahul (34:45):
Absolutely they can go to the website um which is
dentalwealthbuilder.com they cango to um our Instagram um
that's mine and my wife's and umbabner's is dr dot bavner dot
doshi um and and they can evencheck out our books on Amazon
which is Lead2Grow um and dentalalchemy and and those are super
(35:06):
popular books on um the systemsthat we've talked about and
leadership and growing practicesthrough the team.
Another episode of Dentist Who Invest podcast
today.
I'm joined by Dr.
Rahul Doshi.
Dr.
Rahul is a dentist who is verysuccessful with his own dental
practice.
He worked towards andeventually achieved a
multi-seven figure exit.
Now, Dr.
Rahul shares his knowledge bycoaching and mentoring to other
dentists who are on that journeyas well, whether they're
(02:03):
working towards exit themselvesor they just want to leverage
their business a little bit moreto get back to time and life.
This episode will be valuablewhether you're an associate or a
principal because we're goingto be covering some pointers
that are useful to both thoseparties in this episode.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
(02:24):
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
become as tax efficient aspossible, as well as
understanding investing.
All of this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then on completion of each
lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
(02:45):
on your dental indemnity and a5% discount on lab bills for
dental principals, amongst otherperks and discounts for
members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Dr.
Rahul, we know each other fromthe internet, I suppose you
(03:06):
could say, uh, given that we gotto talking over Facebook some
time ago.
But what I was very interestedto learn more and more and more
about is how you help Denniswhenever it comes to leveraging
themselves out of their businessa little bit more.
And I understand you've got alittle bit of a formula to doing
this.
Is that fair to say, Rahul?
Dr Rahul (03:26):
Yeah, the formula is there, but it's almost like a
guideline of what people need todo.
Um, and then it becomes verybespoke to that specific
practice, and that's reallyimportant.
Um, because not all formulaswill be suitable or exactly the
same way for every singlepractice.
So having tailor-made for thatspecific patient type, um, um
(03:47):
team, the type of dentistry thatthey do, the type of dentistry
they want to do is superimportant.
Dr James (03:54):
Yeah, 100%.
And I've actually been theremyself a little bit.
It's like that's where theskill comes in, I guess.
Because if it was just a sh uha cookie-cutter formula, well
then you could just give someonea PDF of a protocol and they
could follow it, right?
But it's not quite as simple asthat.
It's the same with dentistry aswell.
Having a protocol for animplant is completely different
to actually doing an implant, ofcourse.
(04:15):
It's an adjunct.
So I can completely,completely, completely
understand that.
And maybe what it could be goodto do is talk a little bit.
Maybe where we should kickthings off here on this podcast
is maybe talk a little bit aboutwhat you see dentists
struggling out there withwhenever it comes to their
business, both associates whocan think of themselves as a
(04:37):
business within a business, andalso principals as well.
Dr Rahul (04:41):
Sure.
So let's start with principles.
This is probably a little biteasier.
Principles come to me becausethey are um investing in the
marketing.
The marketing isn't actuallybringing the type of patient
that they want to see, andtherefore there is a conversion
issue.
The conversion issue probablyexists because there isn't a
(05:05):
really uh sophisticated salesjourney, communication journey,
patient journey, or patientinteraction that actually tries
to look at every single patienttype to get them to become a
patient.
Um, and the reason for thatoften then goes back to um the
team.
The team aren't actually um theway probably they probably need
(05:28):
to behave in a in an alignedmanner towards a specific vision
um with a specific culture.
And that's often the reason whythings don't work out.
So eventually it always fallsback onto creating an amazing
team, a high performance teamthat actually is really aligned
(05:49):
to growing the practice.
So you're not just actuallypulling the team to grow the
practice, but actually they areworking with you to take the
practice aligned to your visionand are really motivated with
the vision and part of thevision, and and and then you can
actually put in the patientjourney and then switch on the
marketing and take the ROI ofthe marketing spent to another
(06:11):
level and then get the type ofpatients you want.
Hope that makes sense.
Dr James (06:14):
It it it absolutely makes sense.
And listen, you're preachingthe choir a little bit on that
one because I have friends whorun marketing companies, and the
classic tug-of-war against, Iguess, of energies between the
marketing companies and thedental practices themselves is
whenever the marketing companiesgenerate the leads, the dental
(06:35):
practices say the lead qualityis bad, but the marketing
companies say that the front ofhouse team aren't always
converting them as well as theyshould be.
And the answer usually, inessence, lies somewhere between
those two.
Uh the actual truth is kind ofsomewhere between those two
things.
But what what we can do isDennis is definitely maximize
our odds, right, of being ableto convert those leads, whatever
(06:55):
quality they are, and at leastwe can then say, right, we've
tidied up on this, basically.
But we'll we'll come back tothat in just a second.
Maybe it could be good to talkabout the associates briefly,
what they struggle with.
Dr Rahul (07:05):
Sure, actually, and before we come to the
associates, let's just go backto one more step that is
important in this space, andthat is actually we actually
teach them how to look atmarketing properly, how to
actually write their ads or howthey should look at ads written
by their agencies, how to lookat SEO campaigns, how to look at
pay-per-click campaigns, how tolook at um social media ads,
(07:26):
how to look at social media, sothat when they're working with
actual agencies, they canactually hold the agencies
accountable and also now takeownership and control, as
opposed to often the feeling isthat if they invest in
something, whether it's um umanything, whether it's an
equipment or whether it's amarketing agency, they feel that
(07:47):
suddenly there'll be anincrease in upturn, in revenue,
in new patients, etc.
And that's not necessarily thecase.
Here they can take actuallythey can outsource everything,
but also be in control as well.
Dr James (07:59):
Ooh, okay, nice.
Makes complete sense.
And yeah, maybe we should uh weshould we should cover those
associates very briefly, andthen I don't I'm actually
itching to ask a few thingsabout that, but yeah, maybe we
should cover those associatesvery briefly.
Dr Rahul (08:12):
Yeah, and with the associates, really, they are
sometimes lost in the directionof where they want to head to.
That's often the main thingonce we fix that.
The second thing is actuallythe communication to actually um
present the most comprehensivetreatment plan to their
patients, aligned to the styleof dentistry that they want to
(08:33):
do.
So you'll see some dentistswant to do more implants, some
want to do more cosmeticdentistry, some want to do more
aligner treatment, some justwant to do general dentistry.
And how do they do more of it?
Or why don't the patients goahead with their treatment plans
that they suggest?
And often they are limited tosuggesting um this limited
amount of treatment plansbecause they are in that
(08:57):
uncomfortable zone of presentingtreatment plans over a specific
value.
So everybody has a wall, a wallof um a barrier, shall I say,
to the amount of a treatmentvalue that they are happy
presenting to a patient.
For some dentists, it's 500pounds, some 2,000 pounds, some
five, some 10, some 15, some 20,some 30.
(09:19):
How do you break through thebarrier to then give the most
comprehensive treatment planthat's ethical um that will be
really suitable for the patientthat the patients then say yes
to?
Dr James (09:31):
You know, there's a really uh well, actually, before
I jump into that, just tocomment on what you've just
said, it's it it there's alwaysthere's an amount of money in
everybody's head, and it'sdifferent for each one of us,
that we think to ourselves, ohshit, that's a lot of money,
right?
And it's a subconscious thingmore than more than anything
else.
And whilst it's not to say thatwe shouldn't listen to that to
(09:53):
a degree, because ultimatelythere's going to be a limit
somewhere, we also need torealise that it is a subjective
thing and it may not be accurateif we think that, yeah.
So busting through that isactually one of the biggest
things that you can keep thatcan keep you where you are by
way of maintaining you at acertain income, because all our
brains, every single one of us,our brains are calibrated to
(10:15):
believe and expect we shouldearn a certain level of income.
And the moment we bust out ofthat or go above that, we feel
slightly uncomfortable.
So I guess a big part of thatis realising that's part of the
process and journey, and havingsomeone like yourself can be
very reassuring because you cansay, Hey, do you know what this
is actually fine?
And for the level of work thatyou're doing, this is what
people would charge, andeverything along those lines,
(10:36):
and that can make a hugedifference.
It's slot, it sounds slightlywishy-washy, but it can
definitely make a massivedifference, and I guess that
would apply to the theprinciples as well as the
associates, of course, as well.
It lives inside all of ourheads, every anybody who charges
people that lives in your headto a degree.
But yes, anyway, back to theprinciples because one thing I
(10:56):
was itching to ask you based onwhat you were saying just a
second ago, is how can you tellthat your team are not
necessarily as how can I saythis, adequately skilled as they
should be when it comes toconverting those leads into
bumzone seats in the chair.
Any red flags.
Dr Rahul (11:18):
Okay, so the the the important part is that if you
are reliant on a single teammember um within a practice, and
and that's often the case, itmight be in practices such as
the treatment coordinated, mightbe the reception, or it might
be the dentist themselves, thensuddenly you have a bottleneck
of who can convert.
That's the first thing.
If you then if instead, if youcreate a journey where actually
(11:43):
every single person is involvedin actually can talking to the
patient, but all aligned.
So everybody knows what they'resaying, when they're saying it,
what you know, um, and and whatto say at any moment in time.
You then create what you call acommunication stack where
patients are going through ajourney, understanding snippets
of information aligned to thetype of treatment that they are
(12:04):
probably looking for.
So when they come to the end ofthat journey, they totally
understand everything.
So what you're then looking atis really at every single phase,
how does that journey changeand evolve?
And you're looking at everystage.
So you do look at metrics atevery stage, right from
reception to TCO, TCO todentist, dentist to conversion,
(12:26):
and then you'll figure outexactly where those bottlenecks
are uh in terms of conversion.
Dr James (12:31):
Interesting.
Okay, so those are the thoseare the red flags, so to speak.
And I I actually have a littleside note, uh, a side tangent,
Aku, uh, on this.
How do you think AI is gonnahelp us deal with those things?
Or do you think it's at thatlevel yet?
Because AI can remove thebottleneck if it can handle
multiple calls at once, intheory.
Dr Rahul (12:49):
AI can help understand the quality of the call.
So that's what that's availableright now.
Many entities are actuallypromoting that right now, where
the calls are screened, you getan idea of whether you've built
trust, you've built arelationship, you've understood
the patient, whether you'vegiven correct options, you've
then whether you've closedappropriately, and whether the
(13:12):
patient books ahead or not.
And then they'll figure out ifthey don't book, what could be
the reasons why they haven'tbooked, and they give
suggestions.
So that is where AI helps.
If the AI takes over the call,that might be initially
challenging, we're probably notthere yet, but it probably will
evolve to that eventually in thefuture, where the actual tone,
(13:32):
the voice, the relationshipbuilding is really smooth and
seamless.
Dr James (13:37):
Gotcha.
All right, cool.
So the very first thing, inyour opinion, or one of the
biggest things that you wouldsuggest to people is to remove
the bottleneck.
And I I I I agree with that,right?
Because the receptionist iswearing so many different hats.
She's trying to keep thepatients, he or she is trying to
keep the patients happy, uh,and they are uh obviously uh
booking people back in, uh, youknow, rearranging appointments
(13:59):
as they need to need to, and inaddition to that, they're also
handling lead flow as well.
So it makes complete sense thatthis is just not gonna work.
Okay, cool.
So that's the biggestbottleneck.
And then how do we qualify thepeople that we're gonna hire to
handle these roles?
How do we qualify them?
What should we look for interms of them being able to in
terms of their CVs that we knowthat they're gonna be able to be
(14:22):
adept at this at this job?
Any green flags that you canthink of?
Dr Rahul (14:26):
So actually, and then we go to the green flags.
Dr James (14:29):
Yeah, okay, red flags and green.
Let's do it that way.
Let's do it that way.
Dr Rahul (14:33):
Red flags are, and I get this, you know, the first
thing I look at is how oftenhave they moved from job to job.
So people who've been at a jobevery year at a different place,
you know that there issomething that's making them
move every single time.
So that's a big red flag to me.
The green flag is reallysomebody who just shows
attitude, commitment, whoactually wants to be there,
(14:54):
wants to improve, and is andshows passion and excitement in
your conversations.
Or if you ask them to come overto spend half a day to see how
your practice works, and they'llbe more than keen to do that,
and they want to help out andit'll improve.
So that's those are massivegreen flags.
So I I I I don't really look atthe skill level because skill
can be taught, but the attitudeand commitment can't.
Dr James (15:17):
Yeah, you know, there's a very interesting Gary
V podcast I was listening toonce.
Shout out Gary Gary V ifanybody knows him, and he was
like, he would hire people withA-grade attitudes and B grade
skill sets if it came to thatall day long, uh, or at least
because he knows that with agreat attitude the skill set can
evolve.
Whereas someone with an A-gradeskill set and a C grade
(15:38):
attitude, it's just not gonnawork because yes, they might be
good, but as things move on anddevelop and they need to learn
new stuff, well, they're notgonna be as adept at that or
willing to do that because ofjust because of their
personality effectively.
So I definitely think that'sthat's that's that's certainly a
very valuable thing to say.
Okay, so that that's for theprinciples whenever it comes to
the whole how can we say this?
Uh yeah, you know, removing thebottleneck and getting the most
(16:00):
out of our marketing andeverything along those lines,
and it makes complete sense.
It's it's just it's so valuableto just have it laid out and
pinpointed like this is exactlywhat usually goes wrong in your
experience.
Would you say that that's themain one or any other things
people can improve on a tightenup on to get the most out of
their marketing?
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Dr Rahul (18:08):
I I I think yeah, I think what I mentioned was the
three things.
And I think understandingmarketing, most people don't
understand marketing, and Ialluded to that earlier.
They literally think that theylook at either an ad on either
Facebook or get a recommendationor they listen to somebody and
they trust a lot, a lot of moneyto them on a monthly basis,
hoping, and it's a hope thatthey will get the right type of
(18:31):
patients.
But if they start understandingmarketing, if they're
understanding what the actualheadline should be, the
description should be, what theactual um plan should be, how
the actual stats work, whatstats to look at, what stats not
to look at, then they areactually become you know in
control and in tune.
The actual um marketeersactually then start respecting
those principles and workharder.
(18:52):
It's almost congruent to labwork.
When dentists send goodimpressions or scans to the lab,
the lab will send back goodwork.
And if they are critical ofwhat the um um technician is
doing, they'll send good work.
If the dentist is laid back andthe scans or impressions are
poor, you're gonna get poorwork.
Um and you're just hoping thatthe work will be okay.
(19:14):
So it's a similar analogy.
Dr James (19:17):
Makes sense.
And then let's just brieflyrefer back to the associates for
two seconds because you just uhlike I also believe, you
believe that communication isthe biggest thing that helps
them whenever it comes towhenever it comes to being able
to improve their income orimprove the the their
(19:37):
profitability.
And of course that's not theonly thing.
Obviously, you have to bereally good at clinical
dentistry and do right by thepatient as well, but you
literally just looking at thispurely from the point of view of
an economics uh standpoint.
Communication is the one foryou, which I which I also agree
with.
What what are what are in yourexperience, what are the
associates doing that stops themfrom hitting that next level
(19:58):
whenever it comes to income?
Anything specific or any commonclangers, I guess, that seem to
occur in your experience?
Dr Rahul (20:05):
Yeah, so I mean two or three things.
One is actually a mindset thingyou mentioned earlier on.
So they may have this mindsetissue that um there is a limit
to what they can present.
The second is actually creatinga structure, a system of how
they communicate with all thepatients.
And it's almost like goingthrough a journey that they
actually have with a patientthat they repeat again and
(20:27):
again.
Um, they're building thattrust, building the
relationship.
They often miss that out.
So people don't go ahead orpurchase anything when they
don't have a relationship.
I'm not talking about buildingsocial relationships, I'm
talking about buildingrelationships of trust,
knowledge, experience, andguiding the patient to exactly
what they are, what they want.
And also, sales now is such abig study that most patients
(20:53):
know when they're being sold.
So when when communicationisn't done in an um ethical way
where you really care about thepatients, patients can see
through that.
And that's a massive red flagwhere people will walk away
because they feel that beingsold to.
So it's removing the sales outof that communication and really
looking at being interested inthe patient before actually um
(21:15):
presenting treatment plans.
Dr James (21:17):
Lovely Jovely.
And maybe a good cool thing tocover right now would be aside
from the marketing side ofthings, which is obviously very
important for principals, whatother bottlenecks do you feel
they come up against whenever itcomes to improving their
practice or what are the commonissues that you see them
struggle with aside from themarketing side of things?
Dr Rahul (21:35):
So when people look at systems within a practice,
they're often looking atoperational systems and looking
at efficiencies, and the focusis always on the how how do they
potentially reduce expenses orthe overheads.
But really is to create systemsthat encourage growth, growth
in all areas of the practice.
And how do you create systemsthat encourage growth within the
(21:57):
practice in all facets of howthe practice works?
And that then actually leads toa the practice evolving on a
constant basis, changing, andthat change will obviously lead
to the practice earning moremoney.
Dr James (22:10):
Are you a fan of the emith?
Dr Rahul (22:12):
Um, yeah, working on the business as opposed to in
the business, absolutely.
Dr James (22:16):
Great book.
Every business owner needs toread that.
Did you know there's a dentalversion as well?
Yeah, I I I didn't know that,yes.
Oh, you did or didn't?
Sorry, I didn't catch that.
No, no, I did, I did.
Oh, you did, you did, yeah.
There you go.
I don't I know of it, I knowthat it exists.
I believe it's written by uhsomeone based in America.
Dr Rahul (22:35):
So hopefully it's Michael Gerber read it and wrote
the original version, and thereare variances of that because
he gave out licenses todifferent um um sort of uh
professions to actually workwith him and take that sort of
um ownership of that.
Dr James (22:50):
Ah, I didn't I didn't know that, so that's the history
of it basically.
Yeah, there's there's a dentalversion, so shout out to that.
If anybody's not read theemoth, I'd highly encourage them
to read it because you'll seethere's there's there's how you
see business before it and howyou see business after it, in my
opinion.
And that's coming from theperson who had spent a lot of
time around people who had readit.
(23:11):
And I I personally thought Ispent so much time with people
who had read it that I was like,okay, I kind of get what it's
gonna say.
And then that put me offreading it for like two years,
and then I did eventually readit, and then I was like, okay,
this is actually amazing.
I wish I would have done thissooner because I appreciated it
in so much more detail,basically.
Uh so yeah, shout out that bookfor anybody who's a business
owner, not even just a businessowner as well, associates.
(23:32):
I think should read it.
I think everybody should readit, basically.
But yeah, very good book.
But yes, um, where were we?
So for you, systems andprocesses are the big bottleneck
for for.
uh practice owners out there.
And Rahul, one thing I'd reallylove to get into as well, which
I think will be reallyinteresting, how does your
methodology or your is iscoaching a a word you could use,
(23:54):
I guess, really?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So how does how does it howdoes it change based on where
someone is at relative to theirlife cycle as a dentist, I
guess?
Like how does it change ifsomeone's just starting out?
They've just they're yet to buya practice or they've just
bought one, maybe middle oftheir career, or maybe coming
more towards exit.
Dr Rahul (24:15):
Yeah, so I think the key thing is that the people
who've just bought a practice,they're often inundated in all
the operational systems and theydon't focus on the team.
They don't focus on the salesthey don't focus on the
marketing.
They don't focus on the growth.
And they've been taught certainthings.
But when you've actually doneit for decades and actually done
(24:35):
it for multiple practices ofyour own or done it for other
practices and you've seen thesuccess, you know exactly what
to install to make thesepractices actually increase
their revenue by triple,quadruple or five times very
easily.
And that just changes reallywho they are in terms of as
people, in terms of the time offthat they have because now
they've got that certainty ofincome that's coming in which
(24:58):
they didn't previously for thepractices that are established
that they often plateau.
And when you plateau and thereare practices around you that
are growing suddenly thatbecomes a disparity between your
practice and theirs becausetheirs is growing yours is
flatlining and there's adifferential that differential
keeps on growing.
So it's really now knowing whatyou need to do to actually go
(25:21):
back and become even better thanyou were before.
So you're not only um uhclosing that gap but actually
even overtaking it significantlyso that then helps that
practice speed the competitionin the area and finally most
practice owners actually theexit is a big thing because
they've worked hard in thepractice for so many years.
You want to get the max valueout of it.
(25:42):
And the max value you get isreally by increasing that epith.
The epitha is focused onincreasing the turnover and of
course you can reduce theexpenses but really is how do
you create a sustainablebusiness that people will love
to buy and that not onlyincreases the actual epith but
the multiple as well because thepractice will look be looked
upon favorably if all the facetsof the vision the culture the
(26:06):
sales the actual marketing theKPIs are all in place.
Dr James (26:11):
Okay boom good good to know good to know and then
there was oh there was what wasit that was in my head just a
second ago that is going toannoy the heck out of me just to
follow on from that I think Ithink the yeah having one mind
on the having one eye on theeBit that is obviously what's
going to allow you to improveyour multiple and then get the
(26:33):
biggest you know get a biggerexit.
Not that it's all about thatobviously you want to safeguard
the patients as well or that wasit it was it's just come back
to me.
The age world question I thinka lot of dentists struggle with
and it'll be interesting to hearyour take on this you know
you've got a principalreasonably successful practice
going well and they start tothink to themselves okay how can
I take this to the next levelwhat what should I do and I
(26:55):
think a lot of dentists andprincipals out there equate that
with let me buy anotherpractice right and sometimes I
see their practice and I thinkto myself do you know what you
probably make just as much moneyif not more if you just really
nailed some basic things in yourfirst practice right like
you're buying this otherpractice you're taking on a
whole load more debt you'retrying to make an extra hundred
(27:18):
grand but there's three hundredgrand of profit up in the same
practice with virtually noincrease in your overheads
whatsoever.
Dr Rahul (27:25):
What's your thoughts on that Rahul when is when is
the right time to purchase apractice versus just focusing on
what you have yeah the righttime is actually when you when
you think you've maxed out whatyou've done in your practice in
terms of you know that you'recharging um your treatment plans
are comprehensive yourmarketing is really smooth and
slick your team are really slickyou've got systems for
(27:47):
leadership you've got systemsfor sales you've got systems for
marketing and more importantlyyou have a vision a vision that
actually aligns you your teamand your patients everybody
knows where you're going.
So it's it's say we look at anany industry outside um the
dental area and say we can lookat cars.
So if you look at certainbrands you will know what those
(28:09):
brands represent you know what aFord represents to people you
know what a Mercedes representsto people you know what a Rolls
Royce represents to people andnot just the people who are
looking to buy but peopleworking there.
And once you've got that visionwhich is formulated and you've
got all these sales marketingand the team working well that's
then the right time to look atsomething else.
(28:30):
But often people don't getthose things and and actually
one of the key things in theformula that I haven't mentioned
is the vision.
The vision is one of the keythings that we work on we
challenge practice owners on andthat's where 90% or 95% of the
people are going wrong.
And that's where actually usbeing involved with them in
actually creating a laser sharpvision that really everybody
(28:52):
feels aligned to is one of thekey things that actually is this
bug to their growth.
Dr James (28:56):
Nice.
And you know another thing thatcomes up as well which is very
popular amongst principals and alot of them would love to know
how this works is a lot of themwant to leverage their
businesses a little bit more toget back a bit more time.
Right.
And I think a lot of them signup to having a business with
that view in mind where they canuh separate time and money a
(29:19):
little bit but it doesn't alwayspan out and maybe sometimes
they're working just as much ormore than ever maybe earning a
little bit more money but evennot even necessarily that always
being the case as well a lot ofthem feel that the way that you
can progress things that theycan progress their practice more
(29:41):
towards them having a littlebit more of their life and time
back is to make it moreassociate led.
But I've heard a lot ofprincipals who come to me and
say James I don't think mypractice can be associate led I
I just don't think that that'spossible where I am or based on
my location or everything alongthose lines and things well just
stuff like that things alongthose lines effectively so I
(30:02):
guess what I'm asking you Rahulis how practiceable or realistic
is it that your average Joblogsdentist can achieve an
associate led practice or isthat really only reserved for
the the very lucky fewprincipals that eventually make
it there?
Is the difference the setup thelocation things that are beyond
their control or do you thinkin your opinion that actually
(30:25):
most dentists can achieve itwith the right systems and
processes and enacting thethings that you talked about
just a second ago?
Dr Rahul (30:31):
Okay that's a really great question.
And actually so when I had myown practices I I I was one of
the pioneers of crossmakingdentistry I paid a lot of
national media including TVseries of people thought they
were coming to see me.
And yet I the patients were notjust seeing me they were seeing
my team my associates workingthere.
So when when somebody who'swell known is actually giving
(30:55):
their patients to other dentistscan do it then general dentists
giving other their patients totheir their colleagues is is
pretty straightforward.
What there are there are twoaspects of it one aspect is you
as a practice owner need to beconfident that the associates
are really good clinically.
And that means that they needclinical mentoring um and that's
(31:18):
one of the things that we dohelp with.
But the second thing is alsothere's a mindset thing that the
principals have my patientsonly want to see me.
They've been with me with mefor the last 10 years 15 years
20 years.
They won't see anybody else andhow do those conversations
occur and then those principlesare limited to doing not the
type of dentistry that they wantto do but just servicing that
(31:40):
relationship as opposed to maybedoing the type of dentistry
that they want to do more of Ihope that makes sense.
Dr James (31:47):
It does yeah so you're saying that it's a lot more
achievable than peoplenecessarily realize and a lot of
it is how they think and evenjust I think it's just routine
as well they're just so used toand trained to expect to go to
the clinic and have to work uhnine to five that they maybe
don't even question that realitysometimes like is there
actually something else outthere that's better for me or
(32:10):
can be done so I think it startswith realizing that it's
possible first and then you canstart to explore it.
Do you think there's a magicnumber in terms of formulas in a
dental practice in terms sorrydo you think there's a magic
formula or number in terms ofnumber of surgeries in a dental
practice there's like a minimumexpected number of surgeries
that someone can have in orderfor them to become associate led
like three surgeries, foursurgeries or what are your
(32:32):
thoughts on that?
Dr Rahul (32:34):
Yeah I I think you need to have three surgeries
really before you start umbringing associates in because I
I see a lot of people wherethey work in their own practice
and they work as associateselsewhere because the cash flow
in their own practice islimited.
So the number one thing is thatthey have to become the their
practice has to really be makingmoney before even they think of
(32:54):
associates and relinquish alltheir associates jobs themselves
elsewhere.
That's the number one rule.
The second thing is that youneed three rooms one for what
you do one for potentiallyhygienist therapists to take
over some of the basic stuff andthen you're ready for the
associate to come in.
And sometimes it it's easiereven for the principal to work
(33:16):
from a couple of rooms wherethey dovetail between different
rooms but that's another story.
Dr James (33:21):
Nice okay and in your experience what a out of your
experience out of looking atlots of different dental
practices what is the smallestdental practice that you've seen
achieve associate led for youknow associate led status as it
would you say it's like threefour surgeries or does it need
you need to have minimum threethree will work I've I've seen I
(33:41):
I've seen practices wherethey've actually quadrupled
their growth by having justthree rooms so um three rooms is
definitely achievable.
Dr Rahul (33:49):
It's not impossible and also remember as the
practice grows um not in the umum number of surgeries but as
you grow by your revenue growsand the style of dentistry you
you do grows and your marketingstarts working the principals
also will be looking at doingless days and getting time off
so although also also thatbuilds up sort of capacity
(34:10):
within the practice as well butobviously four and more is ideal
but the three will definitelywork.
Dr James (34:16):
But that's so valuable to know because I see so many
principals out there who arelike oh I've only got three or
four surgeries I need more thanthat to get to get the margins
that I need to become associateled.
So you saying that actuallythere are people out there who's
achieved this is definitely alittle bit of a mindset shift
I'm sure for some of thelisteners to this podcast.
Ravel you've been very generouswith your time and knowledge
(34:37):
and wisdom today on the podcastif anybody wants to find out
more about you and what they doand what you do sorry where are
they best off finding you?
Dr Rahul (34:45):
Absolutely they can go to the website um which is
dentalwealthbuilder.com they cango to um our Instagram um
that's mine and my wife's and umbabner's is dr dot bavner dot
doshi um and and they can evencheck out our books on Amazon
which is Lead2Grow um and dentalalchemy and and those are super
(35:06):
popular books on um the systemsthat we've talked about and
leadership and growing practicesthrough the team.
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