May 24, 2026 • 44 mins
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Patients do not have a checklist for your clinical skill, but they do have a radar for trust. We sit down with marketing specialist Rahil Kumar from MiSmile Media and dentist and speaker Dr Dan Shaffer to get brutally practical about personal brand for dentists in the UK, and why it changes everything from your diary to your pricing power. If you have ever thought “posting won’t really make a difference”, we challenge that comfort-zone logic and show what being visible actually does for your career.
We talk about what a personal brand really is: not a logo, not a claim of being “high quality”, but the sum of every touchpoint patients experience. Dan shares how authenticity and integrity create a USP patients can feel, and why personal stories land when they are true rather than engineered for likes. We also explore the reality that most patients cannot easily judge clinical nuance, so they choose the dentist they trust, the one who communicates clearly and feels consistent online and in the practice.
Then we get tactical: which platforms matter, how Instagram and Meta algorithms work, why short-form video wins attention, and what to do if you hate being on camera. We also zoom out to the in-practice details that make or break a premium brand experience, plus a case example where consistent organic social starts bringing patients in without turning on the paid ads tap.
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Dr James (01:15):
Recently on the Dentists Who Invest podcast,
we've done organic marketing andfull-certificate ads with
expert marketers tentativedirector to market.
Now we're going to be talkingabout personal brand, which is,
in my opinion, one of thegreatest facts to doing a
business that people just don'tknow enough about and how it
works.
First of all, we need to startout by defining it.
You want to listen on this onefor sure in order to get
(01:37):
yourself out there, knowing howthat's done, and also knowing
how that can affect your bottomline whenever it's done
correctly, looking forward tosteps ever.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
official Dentists Who InvestSmart Money Members Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
become as tax basic as possible,as well as understanding
(02:00):
investing.
All of this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then on completing these
testing.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
on your dental indemnity and a5% discount on lab bills for
dental principles, amongst otherparts and discounts for
members.
Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
(02:21):
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Dentistry Invest
Podcast.
I'm joined today by two people,uh, Mr.
Rahil, Dr.
Rahil Kumar.
No, are you a dentist?
Rahil (02:36):
No, dude.
I actually thought you were adentist.
No pure marketing man.
Dr James (02:41):
There we go.
There we go.
Just uh in the world ofdentistry, I suppose.
And then it kind of comes tothe territory, I guess, and rubs
off on you that veneer, Isuppose.
And one person is certainly adoctor, and who's Dr.
Dan Shaffer, who sat right nextto me.
And we're uh we're riding alittle high today, actually,
aren't we, guys?
Because we're coming off theback of the business of
dentistry event, which was uhbut 24 hours ago we were sat in
(03:01):
this.
It was very good.
It certainly was flipping goodand a lot of fun.
And I can't believe that we hadover 400 dentists in the room
at one stage.
It was a real pinch-by moment.
Uh, and uh, not to get toonostalgic, looking back in
Dennis and Vest, I remember whenI started the Facebook group,
and I remember one of my bestfriends told me that it was it
had a terrible name and it wasnever gonna go anywhere.
And I was like, you know what,I'm gonna prove you wrong.
(03:22):
And here we are five yearslater, still uh still uh still
still yeah, still still going,which is great.
And uh yeah, it was a realculmination of all of that
effort.
But anyway, that's not evenwhat we're supposed to be
talking about today in thispodcast.
We're supposed to be talkingabout personal brand and how it
can help Dennis from the pointof view of their businesses, but
also just generally, I guess,in life.
And I think that a lot ofpeople overlook this or neglect
(03:44):
this or understate itsimportance or maybe just don't
realize how important it is.
And I always remember onething, just to quickly kick
things off.
I'm a fan of Alex Ramosy, righthere.
I know you like him as well.
Yeah, Dan.
Heard of him?
A fan, yeah.
You're a fan?
You're also a fan.
I'm a fan of Alex Ramosy, andhe has this one episode, right?
And uh I used to listen to hiscontent all the time, to be
(04:06):
fair, but maybe not so much uhanymore.
I used to be an avid AlexRamosy podcast listener.
Like every episode, I'd belike, oh my god, a new episode.
Uh I haven't listened to it ina while.
And it was only because I feltlike, okay, I'm kind of maybe
hearing the same stuff againnow, so I need to move on.
I've obviously learned a lot ofthings.
Anyway, he has this oneepisode, and he it was the day
that he realized how importantpersonal brand was.
(04:27):
And he'd been in business forquite a while.
He'd sold business for like 30million, something along those
lines.
It was like uh I believe it washis business gym launch.
Uh I belie I believe it wasthat anyway.
I'm a little loose on the loreor the details, I suppose, but I
remember the episode.
And then I remember him talkingabout how he felt like he was
quite competent on business, andthen he saw something about how
(04:49):
it was like Kim Kardashian,when she was 25, launched it,
became a billionaire because shelaunched the business.
And he was like, you know what?
Like, I'm pretty sure, youknow, no shade to her.
Perhaps she's very uh, youknow, you know, has a background
and all this stuff andeverything along those ones, but
he just felt like he had moreunder his belt by running
businesses at that stage.
And he was like, But then whyam I not a billionaire?
(05:10):
Like, how the frick does thiswork, right?
And then he was like, What'sactually happened here?
And then he was like, dude,it's just because she's so
famous that anything shelaunches just gets this huge
amount of headway without hereven really trying.
And he's just like, you know, Ican be miserable and be
begrudging about that, or I canjust be like, This is how the
world works and just accept itand try to uh, you know, you
know, to take advantage of thefact that this is the case, you
(05:33):
know, or make money from it, Isuppose.
If you're not that that's theonly thing in the whole wide
world, but that was hisperspective on it, and that's
what taught him how powerfulpersonal brand is.
Anyway, that was a that was anintro, that was the kind of
setting the scenes what we'regonna talk about today.
Personal brand, Rahil.
How has that benefited you?
How do you feel that Dennis inthe UK could benefit from that?
I guess it starts out withquantifying what it is or
(05:55):
qualifying what it is.
Rahil (05:57):
It's probably one of the hardest things to define.
Yeah.
I think everyone kind of hastheir own definition of
branding.
Uh some people are more like,you know, it's not actually a
thing, it's like a feeling.
Some people are like, oh, it'ssomething something you don't
control.
It's like what your customersactually think about you.
But I think there's a lot thatyou know practice owners and
(06:20):
dentists can actually do.
And then it's not just aboutactually saying, Oh, we're you
know, we're exp you know, we'rehigh quality, we're this, we're
that, but actually every touchpoint of your brand actually
demonstrating that.
That's what some people I thinkdon't get when it comes to
branding.
It's not just, oh yeah, we cansay we're X, Y, and Z.
(06:41):
It's like, okay, you've got toactually do this.
And that's when your customersactually will look at you and be
like, okay, what they're sayingis it's true.
Dr James (06:51):
Sure.
And I should I should uhmention as well that Radhill,
the reason why you've got someexperience in this matter is
because of course you runMySmile Media, uh, and that's
obviously a joint venture withyour dad, Sandeep, uh, which is
interesting.
So you see dentists benefitingfrom this a lot, a lot, a lot, a
lot, a lot, I'm sure, andyou're you'll be the one who's
trying to say trying to get themto see the light on that front
(07:13):
only because they're gonnabenefit from it.
Rahil (07:15):
100%.
It's you know, I've seenfirsthand kind of my dad's
journey.
Um and obviously where hestarted to where he is now, he's
subconsciously over a lot ofthose years built a brand
without even knowing it, andthen only in the past, let's say
(07:35):
a couple of years has it beenmore realised what he's doing.
But you see it like all acrossthe industry, like you think of
the you know, the biggest namesin the industry, you even think
of the event that you know youguys held spectacular yesterday.
You're building a brand, you'rebuilding a a following of
people who get the like youknow, these people like you know
(07:58):
the the events on Saturday, buta lot of people have very
exciting Saturday plans, butthey chose, you know what, I'm
gonna come to business adventurestreet and I'm gonna listen to
you guys and listen to all thepeople that are connected to
your brand.
It's like you build thisfollowing of of like-minded
people.
Um and I think now more thanever, it's it's just
(08:18):
exceptionally important.
Like with AI, I think there'sso much information wherever you
want it.
Like, if I want informationabout something, I can find it.
But the difference is is havingsomeone give you that
information and intertwine likeyou know, their own personal
story, their own experience.
(08:38):
Which makes you trust them.
Like, you know, I think I goback to uh your story yesterday
on stage then as um as one ofthe things that really stuck
with me stuck with me yesterdayabout the event.
If you told any other storythat was like, you know, just a
(08:59):
generic story, you can just pickit off the shelf, people
probably would have stoppedlistening on the phone, but it
was that personal story thatcomes with building a personal
brand and being authentic thatyou know really hit home for me.
Dr Dan (09:13):
And I'll tell you what, you made me think just whilst
you were talking there about meas a dentist, you made me
reflect on what makes me mypersonal brand as a dentist.
And and I was just thinkingwhilst you were talking, there
was stuff going on inside of myhead just to try and identify
what it is that contributes tomaking me a personal brand.
(09:33):
Is it the letters after myname?
Well, probably not, becausethat's not me.
Is it the fact that I've gotdoctor in front of my name?
Well, probably not either.
It used to be maybe 30 yearsago, but but nowadays it's very
different.
And I think it's based aroundcommunication skills.
What's your USP or uniqueselling point?
And that is the way that youtalk with your patients, the way
(09:56):
you present yourself.
And I met some dentistsyesterday, and um, you know, I'm
sure you've met lots yourself,um, who have you know 20,000
followers on Instagram.
They have an Instagram pagefull of pictures of lovely teeth
that they've done, and youknow, that's built a brand for
them.
Yeah, but without that thosecommunication skills and that
(10:17):
integrity, that I am me as adentist who you can trust, and
it's a mixture of expertise andlikability.
Yeah, definitely, and if youget the mix right between
expertise and you can showcasethat um, you know, to your
patients, like I'm really goodat fillings, or I'm really good
at crowns, or I'm really, youknow, whatever, uh, or I'm a
(10:37):
good endodontist.
And then likability.
Well, you know, you can trustme, you can talk to me, you can
you know, tell me all kinds ofstuff, and we hear all kinds of
things in the dental surgery.
If you mix those two properly,you get trust.
And this is what patients want,and this is how you build your
brand.
And and so I was justreflecting on that and thinking,
in fact, that integrity is soimportant as the USP behind your
(11:02):
personal brand.
Rahil (11:03):
100%, and it again it comes back to a lot of dentists
will focus on the service thatthey offer the what be it you
know, be that um Carolina's likeinvisible, be that implants, be
it bonding, be it whatever, butfrom a customer's point of
view, the majority of themaren't educated enough to notice
(11:25):
the the clinical skill, likeyou know, the gap in clinical
skill.
They think, okay, a dentist isa dentist.
Dr Dan (11:31):
Yeah.
Rahil (11:31):
So what are they actually choosing?
They're buying into you as aperson.
And that's where like you know,your story, your why, you know,
your authenticity, integrity,that likability, and actually,
you know, coming across asyourself.
Like there's no ROI in comingacross as someone else.
The best thing you can do iskind of be authentic, and people
(11:53):
can tell when you're not.
Like, you know, I'm sure you'vebeen chatting to someone, and
you can tell that you know,you're very different in person
to how you are on social media,and you always you know that
mismatch is that it's like ashop window, isn't it?
Dr Dan (12:05):
So you look at the shop window or you look at the
practice website and you see allthese lovely nurses with the
hair done, uh, you know,lacquered back and smart
uniforms and all lined up at theright angle, your branding
colours match, and then you walkinto the surgery and the door
hinge creaks, and there's athere's a stain on the ceiling
tower where there was a leakingpipe last year in the winter.
And you think, hang on asecond, it doesn't match up to
(12:26):
my expectations.
Rahil (12:27):
Exactly.
Yeah, there's a sticky piece ofpaper on the reception desk
that says something irrelevant,and it's just like you portray
yourself as one thing, but forthe customer, it's that it's the
whole journey.
So if you are branding yourselfas something, every touch point
from like you know, obviouslyyour messaging on be your ads,
your social media, your website,yes, that digital journey is
(12:49):
massive, but also you've got to,you know, you've got to talk
the talk in the practice aswell.
So it's got to feel everythingthat you're you're saying is.
Dr James (12:57):
And you know what, Dan?
Um I actually at the event,yeah, actually, I actually had a
nipped out of the room uh uhwhat when you were on, when you
were talking, I was preoccupieddoing other things.
But what was that story thatyou shared on stage?
Dr Dan (13:09):
Just so quickly.
What I did is I shared threestories, but the particular
story that I think you'rereferring to is my own personal
experience through a griefjourney of losing my daughter,
she was stillborn 18 years ago.
And what I did is I took thatexperience as a grief journey
and tried to explain how someonein deep grief feels and how
that matches with theirprofessional life of being a
(13:31):
dentist on a daily basis, andhow it actually feels to sit
there being immersed in grief,and also after you've taken a
bit of time off, being backbeing a dentist and having that
dentist persona andprofessionalism to meet
patients, meet 20 patients a dayor 30 patients, whatever it is,
go through the motions, but yetyou feel like you're you know
(13:54):
disembodied looking down atyourself for a film script
because you know that thereality is that you're in this
grief journey, and and that'svery difficult for professionals
because you know, dentists,doctors, lawyers, working in a
shop, you know, whatever yourwalk of life, it doesn't really
make any difference.
You still eventually need to goout and make money and work and
(14:15):
bring home money for food andrent and bills, but yeah, that's
very, very difficult toreconcile the two.
And when I looked out to theaudience and I said to them, and
and I didn't use that personalstory in order to upset the
audience at all, it was in factthe opposite.
I didn't see anyone crying, butI saw people nodding, and they
(14:36):
recognized when I said to them,anyone who's been through
difficulty, divorce, grief, allthese life events, and you need
to integrate that with yourprofessional life.
That is really, reallydifficult.
It's just not easy, andeveryone nods around them
because everyone recognises thatidea, and they've also been
(14:56):
through that idea, and it can besomething maybe not traumatic,
you know, you've had a new baby,and until that baby's about you
know 20 years old, their life'sgonna affect yours in so many
different ways, when they're achild alone, when they're
sleepless, you know, whenthey're growing up, when they're
a teenager, you've got worries,you're still gonna be a
(15:17):
dentist.
That's an amazing idea.
So that's the kind of story Iwas telling.
Dr James (15:26):
Understood.
And you know, Dan, it'sinteresting because I know
obviously you you've always beensomeone who's up for putting
themselves out there, but Iguess uh what has I is it fair
to say that that's maybe beenaccelerated over the last year
or so since we started businessof dentistry, that's grown even
more?
Would you me putting myself outthere?
I I guess maybe just uh youyeah, well the amount of the the
(15:49):
content that you're is goingout that's going out and uh your
visibility and everything alongthose lines, would you agree?
Dr Dan (15:55):
So so as far as my personal uh development goes,
I've always been very keen ondigital production, digital
architecture.
I love uh websites, I love filmproduction, I love all of that
side of stuff, including 3Dscaling technology and printing.
I'm just fascinated by anythingdigital.
And my personal contentproduction, yes, it has uh
(16:17):
ramped up, and that's actuallysince COVID.
Because when Dent Street gottaken away and your identity uh
as Dr.
Shaffer, uh you know, with theBDS after your name, that gets
stripped away because you closeddown for seven months.
You think, well, what am Igonna do?
You know, what am I just gonnasit here?
No, well, actually, I love filmproduction.
(16:37):
I've wanted to do it for years,never had the time and the
opportunity to spend ondeveloping those skills.
So I sat down and I learnedAdobe Premiere, I learned web
design, I learned marketing, Ilearned, you know, content
production, and that's when itreally ramped up because it
freed me up when I realized thatthis artistic um skill and
sensitivity had been hidingbehind the science for decades
(17:00):
of being a dentist, and it alljust blew out the water.
So you're absolutely right,yeah.
In the past few years, yes, thethe content production um and
getting myself out of there hasincreased.
I feel very comfortable on astage in front of hundreds of
people or doing small groupcourses or being behind the
camera or in front of a camera.
Dr James (17:19):
I I just really enjoyed it all.
Sure, and you know, I justwanted to ask you one thing on
that, and then I want to bringRat Hill in on the kind of
mechanics of it effectively.
But what have you noticed, whatbenefits have you noticed in
your life since you started toaccelerate, accelerate that
journey, or accelerate that sideof your career, I guess,
really, where you're puttingyourself out there more.
How has that benefited?
(17:40):
Because I think for me, onesomething that held me back in
the day was I was just like, howmuch will that help?
Will that actually make adifference?
And you know, a lot of peopleare afraid to speak publicly and
do content and things alongthose lines.
And it's like there's thatfear.
There's there's a I love thatthere's a saying that I heard,
and it's uh I I it reallyresonated with me.
(18:01):
It was comfort zones, uh theythey what's what's the word I'm
looking for?
They um disguise themselves isthe word I'm looking for.
Comfort zones disguisethemselves as logic, okay?
Comfort zones disguised aslogic, right?
And it's like you feel scared,and how your brain that's a
subconscious feeling that youfeel, like in the like the deep
(18:22):
part of your brain, and how yourconscious part of your brain
rationalizes that is oh well, itprobably won't really help you
that much anyway.
It it probably really isn'tthat good a thing to do, you
know what I mean?
Whereas in reality, it can't itit is, and you know that on
some level, but that's how werationalize our fear, and it's
so important to not, it's soimportant to be self-aware
enough to understand that,right?
(18:43):
And definitely I did that a lotback in the day, and it held me
back, and now I have been onthe other side of that.
I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
I love doing this stuff, youknow what I mean?
So I guess a lot of people areyet to see that.
So in order to help thosepeople understand why it's
beneficial, how do you feel it'shelped you in your life, or
(19:03):
what's changed since you startedto accelerate that?
Dr Dan (19:05):
Well, I know you like your quotes.
What about Beverly Knight?
Shoulda woulda coulda.
And I always think shouldawoulda coulda means you're out
of time.
Yeah, so you can say, well, Ishould have done that, I would
have done that, I could havedone that, but actually going
out there and doing it and thenchecking it out there is much
better.
And another quote for you, theDr.
Pepper advert, what's the worstthat can happen?
You know, someone's gonna thinksomeone's gonna call you an
(19:26):
idiot.
So does it really matter?
You know, if you go wrong, yousay the wrong thing, or it
doesn't, your video doesn'tquite work, you know, whatever
it is, you put your content outthere and it flops, no one's
gonna remember it tomorrow.
You're only as good as yourlast bit of content, and you can
do another boost tomorrow.
So I I kind of lost fear ofthat kind of side of things, and
just you know, carry on doingwhat you're doing.
(19:46):
If you're enjoying it andyou're putting quality stuff out
there that you know respectsintegrity, and uh, you know,
people quite like it and theytalk to you about it, then
you're probably doing somethingright.
Carry on doing it.
And if people don't notice itand you're enjoying it, then
still do it.
unknown (20:01):
Yeah.
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of this podcast.
I think a lot of people arejust scared, I guess, of making
themselves look silly, aren'tthey?
Right.
But there's a reallyinteresting thought experiment
that you can play where you justthink in your head, can you
consciously you probably sawsomebody do something silly at
least seven days ago, right?
Within the last week, okay.
(22:09):
But I can't remember what anyof those things are off the top
of my head, right?
Like that's genuinely howpeople perceive you as well.
Like they literally don't care,you know?
And it's kind of like they'rebecoming funny about it as much
as you do.
Literally, right?
It's a bigger thing in yourhead.
But yeah, no, this this this isthe thing.
And I wanted to bring you onthis one, on this one, Rahel,
because you've you helped youliterally helped dentists do
this, right?
(22:29):
Like this is literally yournine-five, right?
Or at least part of it anyway,right?
And uh I guess I'm curious toask you.
So we've we've heard thebenefits a little bit, we've
kind of explored how that looks.
How does a dentist actually dothat?
Like, how does that look?
How does that actually manifestin their life?
Is it content?
Is it public speaking?
Is it something else that wehaven't talked about up until
(22:51):
now?
Rahil (22:51):
But there's there's all there's all sorts of different
ways that you can do it.
Like obviously content is theyou know the one that's trending
right now, shall we say.
But there's so many you knowdifferent forms of content as
well.
I think everyone is veryobsessed, and rightly so, with
the way that the you know theapps are pushing it with video
content and wanting to, youknow, similar to what we're
doing today, like you know,having this, you know, having
(23:13):
this conversation.
But what I've kind of realizedis that if you're not
comfortable being on camera,yes, you still need to let push
yourself out of your comfortzone and try these new things.
But if it gets to that stagewhere you resent it every time
you get on camera, there are somany other forms of content that
(23:36):
people just don't think of.
I think like LinkedIn, forexample, some people, while they
may not be able to articulatetheir points on camera, when it
comes to writing it down, oh mygod, I can scroll through some
of their posts for for days.
And there's so many, so manypeople in the in the industry
who do that really well.
So it's finding kind of acontent medium that works for
(23:59):
you as well is another big thingfor dentists, because you know,
not everyone is comfortable onvideo.
But I think the the big thingthat we try to do when it comes
to branding, personal branding,is trying to really get
something of like why are youdoing this?
Like, you know, for some peopleit's you know, there's no point
having a a brand just for thesake of it.
(24:20):
For a you know, for a practiceand for a dentist, there's
completely different reasons tohave a brand.
For an associate, like youknow, you're bound by the
practice that you work in.
But let's say if that principaldecides to sell, what happens
to you?
For them, building a personalbrand, showing off their cases,
showing off their theirexpertise, but also them as a
(24:42):
person, getting people to buyinto them, not only brings them
patience, but it alsofuture-proofs them that just in
case they do leave that practiceand they need to go somewhere
else, they have this foundationto fall back on.
It's a possible brand, yourpersonal brand.
It follows you wherever you go.
It's not you know bound to thepractice.
And then from a practice'spoint of view, like you, you
(25:03):
know, you can name you knowprobably 10, 20 massive brands
in dentistry off the top of yourhead.
And like, you know, weobviously you know specialize in
Invisalign a lot, and there'sthis big fear at the minute of
this race for the bottom.
But then you'll see there'ssome practices and some brands
that are able to consistentlycharge a high price and nobody
bats an eyelid.
(25:23):
Why?
Because they've built theirbrand already.
People know what it is thatthey're gonna get from them and
they trust them to do it.
So instead of having to competeon price, they maintain
themselves as as one of the likeas one of the luxury kind of
practices in the market.
So for them, they get patientskind of coming to them because
they've already done the gruntwork of building the brand,
(25:45):
putting themselves out there,letting it be known that this is
what we do, and backing it upwith proof.
Whereas everyone else isundercutting each other and
this, that, and these guys areactually getting patients to to
come to them, which obviouslymakes your you know your
marketing easy.
If you've got a recognizablebrand and you know, you think
about it not just in dentistry,which is what I think we we
(26:07):
always get bogged down to thinkwe like to live in this little
bubble.
But what we've you know, whatwe're trying to train people to
do is actually look outside ofdentistry and you know, look at
all of these big brands that youtrust.
Whenever you uh need to make adecision, you don't know what to
do, you're most likely gonnafall back on something that you
trust.
That's just you know, humannature.
(26:28):
So there's so many benefits andfor you know both practices and
you know associates to to buildit.
Um but actually finding out whyyou want to do this is is kind
of where we start and realizingthat you know this isn't just oh
yeah, slap a logo on myInstagram posts or you know, a
(26:49):
nice fancy new you know,homepage on the website solves
everything.
There is like you know, so muchmore that kind of that kind of
goes into it than that.
Is Instagram still the go-to tobuild a personal brand?
I think meta as a I think metaas a whole is is you know where
we go.
Um and it's purely because it'swhere like our audiences, if
(27:12):
you look at like you know,everyone's average screen time,
for example, but I think thatmetric just keeps going up and
up and up.
I think I think you know mineis about nine hours.
Dr James (27:22):
It's shocking, isn't it?
You know, when you get thatlittle notification at the end
of the day, and I'm like, howhave I spent six hours on the
phone today?
Like, I I just don't know howthat's happened, you know.
Rahil (27:33):
And if you can you can break it down by like where you
spend it in terms of your appsas well.
Oh, and I it's the same appsthat always up here on mine at
the top, but it's not just thisway for us, it's the same for
like you know, our audience aswell.
They're the ones also spendingtime on this, and the way that
the algorithms are with socialmedia now, they're so clever.
And like, you know, people getyou know so confused with the
(27:55):
algorithms these days.
And the way I kind of like tolook at it and reframe it is the
algorithm's job is to keep youon that app for as long as
possible.
So they need to show youcontent that is you know gonna
either entertain you or solveyour problem or make you feel C.
They want to keep you on thatapp as long as possible.
(28:15):
And Instagram, like you know,meta as a whole, do that
phenomenally well.
Um, and you either be a youknow, you're either creator or
you're a consumer.
You either sit there scrolling,doom scrolling, or you're
actually like, you know, this iswhere my potential patients
are.
I'm gonna put myself out thereand and go and do it.
You'll be hard pressed to findsomeone without an Instagram
(28:37):
account these days.
I'm pretty sure if you did ayou know hands up with your, you
know, with the 400 people thatyou had yesterday, I'd be
surprised if that if there'sanyone there without a meta
account.
And it's probably the same forthe people, you know, out on the
street, there are potentialpatients.
Like, you know, this is wherethey spend their time.
So you've got to you've got togo to them.
Dr Dan (28:56):
And and and it's really interesting actually what you're
saying because that infinitescrolling made up of autoplay
videos, video content is king,of course.
So if you're watching video,short form video, you've got to,
if you want to uh have yourselfin there, you've got to create
short-term video because you'recompeting.
So you as a dentist or you as adental practice, short-term
(29:18):
video, uh short-form video isabsolutely king because that's
what people are watchingconstantly on doing scrolling
six hours or nine hours.
And another really interestinguh thing that happened when they
started taking phones out ofschools was they realized that
uh even though school childrendidn't have phones, secondary
school children, during thedaytime, they still had the same
(29:39):
average screen time by the endof the day because they made up
for it after school time.
And and that's fascinating, andI'm sure it's the same in
adults as children.
It's gonna be no different.
Just because you take yourphone away or put it somewhere
else or stop uh you know,looking at content, you will
then make up for it in theevening.
Yeah.
Rahil (29:58):
It's fascinating.
The algorithms are that that'sso good these days, isn't it?
It's like you know, everyone'sfeed is just perfectly created
for you.
Dr Dan (30:07):
Yeah.
Um here is changing though.
So I hear that they're they'reactually introducing a lot more
random stuff instead ofalgorithmic triggers, and and
that keeps it fresh becauseeveryone's a little bit bored of
being in an echo chamber.
Rahil (30:22):
Yeah, so it kind of depends on, you know, it kind of
depends on the content youengage with and the content that
you like.
So, you know, if you get avideo and you're on it for two
seconds and you swipe up, thealgorithm is like, okay, this
sort of content this personisn't engaging with.
But if you watch a video thewhole way through, it sends
another signal to the algorithmthat he likes this sort of
(30:44):
content, I'm gonna push more ofit.
Um so the like you know, thealgorithms are are so clever
these days, but what I thinkdentists sometimes fail to get
with them is, and it comes backto this, you know, living inside
the bubble.
You're not just in competitionwith other dentists when it
comes to the algorithm.
You are in competition withsomeone, you know, someone just
(31:06):
got engaged, someone's just goneon holiday, there's you know,
all of this um AI brain rockcontent, there's like you know,
all these funny that you'rethat's where your content's
sitting.
It's not sitting in like youknow, this echo chamber of just
dental content, it is sitting ina you know, you know, on social
media with everything else.
So if your content is literallyjust one thing over and over
(31:28):
again, and for majority ofdentists is that static before
and after, you're not just inthis, you know, compared to
other dentists before and after,you're compared to everything.
And if people think, oh yeah,this doesn't fit what I usually
like, they scroll past it.
It's just finding, you know,each platform's made for
different things, and it'srealizing that okay, I need to
(31:51):
play to the platform strengthshere.
Like, you know, you're notgonna as much as we want to,
we're not gonna change the waythat Instagram or Facebook or or
LinkedIn is.
You know, they're built forspecific purposes and your
content has to you know.
Dr Dan (32:04):
And it's not just about socials, is it?
I mean, as a dental clinic,your position not just against
other dental clinics like itused to be decades ago.
Consumers, I'm gonna call themconsumers not patients.
Yep.
They're consumers.
Your patients are consumers,and they're gonna compare your
practice and your service toBarclays Bank or Virgin Trains
or uh, you know, budgings, oryou know, whatever else, other
(32:27):
levels they use hotels,wellness, but like you see.
When they come in, they'reexpecting the level of service
that they get from othercompanies and businesses.
Rahil (32:35):
You see, practices these days they look more like you
know, wellness retreats thanthey do dental practices now.
And it's you can remember DavidLloyd Jim's.
Exactly.
Um it's it's like you know,like it's moved far beyond just
like you know the uh you knowwhat it used to be before with
just you know how a typical NHSpractice used to look.
(32:55):
Um and then it it comes down toagain that branding.
Like, you know, it's not justobviously what you see on social
media, it's all of these touchpoints from when they walk into
the practice.
One thing that like that we'reexperimenting with is like how
does the practice smell likewhen you walk in?
Yeah, it's the same thing whenyou walk into a luxury hotel.
There's always a smell.
And and things you don't thinkabout, like how thick is the
(33:15):
toilet paper?
Or you know, weird, but youknow, is the loot brush new?
It's the most ignored part of adental practice is the toilet.
Everyone puts so much emphasison, oh, I need this dental
chair, I need this, like youknow, I need this screen above
the patient.
But then a lot of patients,when they you know, when they
actually come into the practiceand they need the toilet and it
looks run down or it's in thecorner, it's like, what image
(33:38):
does that send?
Dr Dan (33:39):
Do people use the toilet as kind of uh like a milestone
almost, like a marker?
And I know my wife when shegoes to people's houses, and I
hope none of my friends arelistening to this, because you
know, she'll go into the loo andshe'll comment later on on oh,
that loo was lovely.
Well, you know, it wasn't thewallpaper.
No, they've just done it, oryou know, very clean house.
You know, the the toilet is theheart of the home in a way.
(34:01):
It's very weird to think of itlike that.
Dr James (34:03):
There's a standing right, and it's something along
the lines of you can judge thesophistication of society by the
standard of their bathrooms orsomething.
There's something like that.
I remember reading thatsomewhere, and um, I remember
someone quoted that, and thenthey said, and if that's true,
Japan is the pinnacle of um uhthe developed world, I guess,
really.
I did this anyway.
(34:24):
Moving on.
Dr Dan (34:25):
No, I did this at the hotel.
When I walked into thebathroom, I checked behind the
door for any dust on the floorto see whether the room's clean.
Yeah, people do use arbitrarymarkers in dental clinics as
well as looking at social.
Dr James (34:37):
Okay.
Dr Dan (34:37):
Like in socials, is the logo central?
Is it proper?
Is it you know, is it a bitscrappy?
And if you don't do itproperly, then people notice it
very quickly.
Dr James (34:46):
What did what good point, good point, Dan?
And what do what do dentists dowrong when it comes to their
personal brand, Rahil?
Like, where do they mess up?
Like, what has you scrollingthrough your Instagram feed and
you see something and you'relike, oh man, seriously?
Rahil (34:59):
Uh the biggest thing that a lot of them do wrong is they
don't do it.
Is honestly if you reach if youwant if you if you want the
biggest thing is that they don'tthey don't see the importance
of it.
Um, I think for both practicesand associates, I think we've
covered it like you know indepth.
Like there are so many benefitsto like you know actually being
(35:20):
able to be seen.
Because if you're if you're noton, you know, if you're not
doing this, you're justinvisible.
Like, you know, you're relyingon people to find you in ways
that, yes, people still use it,but you've got to adapt to the
way that you know yourcustomers, you know, they're
they're buying and theirsearching habits are.
And you know, I'm pretty surewe can we can all attest to it
now.
It's no longer just as simpleas, oh, I see uh, you know, I
(35:44):
see an ad, I go to a landingpage, I book in, yep, it's done.
It's like you're inviting themalmost to be part of your world
now.
The amount of touch points ittakes someone to actually submit
an inquiry has gone through theroof.
I think some people are sayingthey need to see you like
upwards of like 10, 15 timesbefore they're like, especially
if they have no knowledge ofyou, to actually book that first
(36:05):
appointment with you.
Now, if you consider it interms of right, if they need to
see me 15 times and then notseeing me on social media,
suddenly that 15 times is like,well, where you know, where you
know where where are they gonnafind me?
So, in that sense, if you'renot doing it, you're invisible.
Um, so actually getting startedis is a massive thing.
And then the other thing iskind of following what the you
(36:30):
know what the biggest names inthe industry are doing is
another one.
Um and you know, there'snothing wrong with taking
inspiration.
I think we all do it, like bothinside and outside of
dentistry.
We all kind of look forinspiration wherever we can find
it.
But just copying someone justbecause, oh yeah, you know,
let's say, you know, I think thethe big example is uh is Milad,
(36:51):
the singing dentist.
Like, you know, just becausehe's made it, you know, you
know, he's made his brand doingit this way, doesn't mean that
someone else can just come inlike, yep, I'm gonna now start
making dental parodies and besuccessful.
But he did it, and the way thathe does it is so authentic,
it's so real, it's so him thatit's worked.
If someone else does it andjust doing, and you know, they
(37:12):
can someone can tell you justdoing it for the views, it won't
have the same effect.
And you were talking aboutinfluencers before, and
obviously they've got a bigfollowing.
But the amount of influencersthat will launch something, like
you know, they'll launch aproduct, they'll launch a
course, they'll endorsesomething, and people won't buy
it because they're not actuallybought into like that influencer
as a person, they just youknow, they just follow them
(37:34):
because they made a trendingreel that they liked or
something.
It's not necessarily abouthaving the biggest following.
I think that's what a lot ofpeople get confused about.
It's not like you know, wedon't need to go viral as a
dentist a lot of the time, butyou need to have the right
people following you, the rightpeople trusting you, buying into
your message, and that's whatreally you know makes a
difference and compounds overtime.
Dr James (37:56):
Nice.
And yeah, I mean, uh, how can Isay this?
I think for a lot of peopleit's it's just getting started,
really, isn't it?
And would you say the biggestbarrier is mainly comfort zones?
Rahil (38:10):
Yeah, I think you know, in in one sense, it's like I'm
you know, I I'm on this journeynow myself.
I think the the team have beenon me to you know starting my
own personal brand, and I'm nowencountering the same thing that
every dentist is constantlymoaning at me about, and I'm
saying, no, you've just gotta doit.
Is you know, it's it's noteasy.
(38:30):
It is not easy to like youknow, put yourself out there and
you know be open, open tojudgments.
Um, but I think the thing thatI'm starting to you know to
realise is that I willover-analyse my content so much
more than than anyone else will.
So it is in essence like agetting, you know, figuring out
(38:51):
why you're doing it, and thenbreaking it up into you know,
you don't need to do everythingat once.
You're not gonna go fromstarting it tomorrow to you know
famous in in in a week.
It's very rare to haveovernight successes, as you both
know in Dentashkir.
It takes time, it takesrepetitions.
Like people compare socialmedia to the gym, and they
(39:11):
expect, oh yeah, first postgonna go viral.
It's like going to the gym onceand expecting to be completely
ripped.
No, but what it does is itteaches you like you know, okay,
this is what I need to do, andit's reps, reps, reps, finding
out what exercises you'recomfortable with.
Like, you know, some peoplehate certain exercises in the
gym and they'll go away fromthem, but they love this.
(39:33):
It's just finding out whatyou're you know, what you're
comfortable with, and then justreps, reps, reps.
There's no substitution for it.
Dr James (39:39):
And I guess where you can help is you can obviously
set up and you can advise, Iguess, really, on how I dentist
goes about that, because you'veseen it so many times.
Rahil (39:48):
Yeah, so we we help in obviously a couple of different
ways.
Um, we help on the on the kindof branding and personal
branding front in kind ofhelping them to you know
articulate their story andactually figure out, okay, this
is where we are now, and this iswhere we, you know, this is
where we want to be in the nextcouple of years.
(40:08):
And a lot of brands, like youknow, they were set up 15 years
ago and haven't been touched,and it doesn't reflect where
that person is now.
So we kind of take you knowtheir journey, their story, and
basically bring it into wherethey are and where they want to
be.
And obviously that does involvea visual element with you know,
with logos, with colourpalettes and everything to do
(40:29):
with that.
And then on the social mediaside, we do a we do more of a
dung-for-you process.
Because what we found is whenwe give dentists the freedom of
okay, we want you to film X, Y,and Z for us, and this is how
like you know, this is what wewant you to do, these same
doubts crept in.
So, what we'll do is we'll goin there all with a pre-agreed
(40:50):
kind of content plan, and oncewe filmed everything with them,
we'll be, you know, we'll be theones editing it, captioning it,
posting it, looking at all thereporting, the metrics,
everything, and just leavingthem with the time, like you
know, with the time saved to goand do what they love, which is
the clinical dentistry, andleaving us to kind of manage
(41:10):
that account for them, and thenobviously we come back, we look
at what's worked, what hasn't,and just accelerate on from
there.
Dr James (41:16):
Can you give me just one thing just to round off on?
Can you give me an example justto make this really tangible
for the audience?
Can you give us a case studyoff the top of your head where
you had dentist, Mr.
Smith, Dr.
Smith, and he or she they werea little nervous to get out
there, then they kind of stolethe light, they went and did it.
And when they did that, whatthen happened was the practice
(41:38):
grew by examined, or they wereable to leave their job as an
associate and start a squat orsomething along those lines.
I think you can think about it.
Dr Dan (41:45):
When you said stall the light and the lights came on.
Dr James (41:47):
You know what?
I've just realized that thelights are linked to us moving
around because they saw a randommove.
Dr Dan (41:55):
Exactly.
That was like uh a perfectInstagram moment.
Dr James (41:59):
I was waiting for that moment.
I was I was I was waiting touse that nine and then turn the
lights on.
That's what actually happened.
But yes, there we go.
It was all scripted.
But yes, anyway, uh Randallcase studies that you can think
of.
I'm sure you've had a few overthe years.
Rahil (42:13):
Oh, yeah, there's there's so many case studies on the on
the social media side, and Ithink on the on the personal
branding side, the it's a bitharder to it's a bit harder to
think on the personal brandingside.
It's it's one of those, youknow, when you you most need it,
they just escape your head.
Uh they're all on they're allon like our socials and our
(42:35):
website, which is reallyannoying.
Um but in terms of likepractices that we work with,
like you know, Lenin Dentals,Lenin Dentals, one of them, they
came to us and they wereliterally like barely posting,
like they knew the value in it.
Dr James (42:48):
Yeah.
Rahil (42:48):
And they every so often get a surge of motivation to do
it, and they become so activefor a week and then busy
practice, things to do.
What's the first thing to dropthat drops off?
Oh yeah, like you know, wedon't need you know, we don't
need social media this week,it's fine.
But you know, they they knewwhat they you know, they knew
that the platform rewardedconsistency consistency, and
(43:08):
they knew that they wanted tolike, you know, it's where their
patients are and they want topush themselves out there.
So they kind of came to us anduh we've been working with them
for I think about six to ninemonths now.
And I think if you look attheir if you look at their
stats, like you know, in termsof the the metrics that everyone
looks like, you know, theirtheir followers, their views,
everything like that iscompletely like I don't think
(43:30):
they've ever had ever had statslike it.
But I think the thing for usthat is always you know the
thing that we look at is they'reactually getting patience from
their organic social media.
So as much as we love to focuson, oh yeah, they've increased
their follower count by you knowsix, seven hundred, and you
know their video views are nowlike you know in the in you know
(43:50):
around one thousand, twothousand per video, whereas
before it was you know around acouple of hundred.
Like you know, these metricsare great, but what actually is
you know, what is this doing forthe practice?
Yes, it's making us morevisible and it's actually
bringing patients in.
And each of those patients,you're not you know, turning the
paid lead, you know, the paidadvertising tap on and having to
(44:13):
to pay for all of them actuallycoming to you naturally.
Um so those are always like thebiggest wins for us when we see
both associates and andpractice kind of actually
getting those results from itfrom a patient point of view.
I think it'll
Recently on the Dentists Who Invest podcast,
we've done organic marketing andfull-certificate ads with
expert marketers tentativedirector to market.
Now we're going to be talkingabout personal brand, which is,
in my opinion, one of thegreatest facts to doing a
business that people just don'tknow enough about and how it
works.
First of all, we need to startout by defining it.
You want to listen on this onefor sure in order to get
(01:37):
yourself out there, knowing howthat's done, and also knowing
how that can affect your bottomline whenever it's done
correctly, looking forward tosteps ever.
As ever, you can claim your CPDfor this episode within the
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Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
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(02:00):
investing.
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In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
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Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
(02:21):
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Dentistry Invest
Podcast.
I'm joined today by two people,uh, Mr.
Rahil, Dr.
Rahil Kumar.
No, are you a dentist?
Rahil (02:36):
No, dude.
I actually thought you were adentist.
No pure marketing man.
Dr James (02:41):
There we go.
There we go.
Just uh in the world ofdentistry, I suppose.
And then it kind of comes tothe territory, I guess, and rubs
off on you that veneer, Isuppose.
And one person is certainly adoctor, and who's Dr.
Dan Shaffer, who sat right nextto me.
And we're uh we're riding alittle high today, actually,
aren't we, guys?
Because we're coming off theback of the business of
dentistry event, which was uhbut 24 hours ago we were sat in
(03:01):
this.
It was very good.
It certainly was flipping goodand a lot of fun.
And I can't believe that we hadover 400 dentists in the room
at one stage.
It was a real pinch-by moment.
Uh, and uh, not to get toonostalgic, looking back in
Dennis and Vest, I remember whenI started the Facebook group,
and I remember one of my bestfriends told me that it was it
had a terrible name and it wasnever gonna go anywhere.
And I was like, you know what,I'm gonna prove you wrong.
(03:22):
And here we are five yearslater, still uh still uh still
still yeah, still still going,which is great.
And uh yeah, it was a realculmination of all of that
effort.
But anyway, that's not evenwhat we're supposed to be
talking about today in thispodcast.
We're supposed to be talkingabout personal brand and how it
can help Dennis from the pointof view of their businesses, but
also just generally, I guess,in life.
And I think that a lot ofpeople overlook this or neglect
(03:44):
this or understate itsimportance or maybe just don't
realize how important it is.
And I always remember onething, just to quickly kick
things off.
I'm a fan of Alex Ramosy, righthere.
I know you like him as well.
Yeah, Dan.
Heard of him?
A fan, yeah.
You're a fan?
You're also a fan.
I'm a fan of Alex Ramosy, andhe has this one episode, right?
And uh I used to listen to hiscontent all the time, to be
(04:06):
fair, but maybe not so much uhanymore.
I used to be an avid AlexRamosy podcast listener.
Like every episode, I'd belike, oh my god, a new episode.
Uh I haven't listened to it ina while.
And it was only because I feltlike, okay, I'm kind of maybe
hearing the same stuff againnow, so I need to move on.
I've obviously learned a lot ofthings.
Anyway, he has this oneepisode, and he it was the day
that he realized how importantpersonal brand was.
(04:27):
And he'd been in business forquite a while.
He'd sold business for like 30million, something along those
lines.
It was like uh I believe it washis business gym launch.
Uh I belie I believe it wasthat anyway.
I'm a little loose on the loreor the details, I suppose, but I
remember the episode.
And then I remember him talkingabout how he felt like he was
quite competent on business, andthen he saw something about how
(04:49):
it was like Kim Kardashian,when she was 25, launched it,
became a billionaire because shelaunched the business.
And he was like, you know what?
Like, I'm pretty sure, youknow, no shade to her.
Perhaps she's very uh, youknow, you know, has a background
and all this stuff andeverything along those ones, but
he just felt like he had moreunder his belt by running
businesses at that stage.
And he was like, But then whyam I not a billionaire?
(05:10):
Like, how the frick does thiswork, right?
And then he was like, What'sactually happened here?
And then he was like, dude,it's just because she's so
famous that anything shelaunches just gets this huge
amount of headway without hereven really trying.
And he's just like, you know, Ican be miserable and be
begrudging about that, or I canjust be like, This is how the
world works and just accept itand try to uh, you know, you
know, to take advantage of thefact that this is the case, you
(05:33):
know, or make money from it, Isuppose.
If you're not that that's theonly thing in the whole wide
world, but that was hisperspective on it, and that's
what taught him how powerfulpersonal brand is.
Anyway, that was a that was anintro, that was the kind of
setting the scenes what we'regonna talk about today.
Personal brand, Rahil.
How has that benefited you?
How do you feel that Dennis inthe UK could benefit from that?
I guess it starts out withquantifying what it is or
(05:55):
qualifying what it is.
Rahil (05:57):
It's probably one of the hardest things to define.
Yeah.
I think everyone kind of hastheir own definition of
branding.
Uh some people are more like,you know, it's not actually a
thing, it's like a feeling.
Some people are like, oh, it'ssomething something you don't
control.
It's like what your customersactually think about you.
But I think there's a lot thatyou know practice owners and
(06:20):
dentists can actually do.
And then it's not just aboutactually saying, Oh, we're you
know, we're exp you know, we'rehigh quality, we're this, we're
that, but actually every touchpoint of your brand actually
demonstrating that.
That's what some people I thinkdon't get when it comes to
branding.
It's not just, oh yeah, we cansay we're X, Y, and Z.
(06:41):
It's like, okay, you've got toactually do this.
And that's when your customersactually will look at you and be
like, okay, what they're sayingis it's true.
Dr James (06:51):
Sure.
And I should I should uhmention as well that Radhill,
the reason why you've got someexperience in this matter is
because of course you runMySmile Media, uh, and that's
obviously a joint venture withyour dad, Sandeep, uh, which is
interesting.
So you see dentists benefitingfrom this a lot, a lot, a lot, a
lot, a lot, I'm sure, andyou're you'll be the one who's
trying to say trying to get themto see the light on that front
(07:13):
only because they're gonnabenefit from it.
Rahil (07:15):
100%.
It's you know, I've seenfirsthand kind of my dad's
journey.
Um and obviously where hestarted to where he is now, he's
subconsciously over a lot ofthose years built a brand
without even knowing it, andthen only in the past, let's say
(07:35):
a couple of years has it beenmore realised what he's doing.
But you see it like all acrossthe industry, like you think of
the you know, the biggest namesin the industry, you even think
of the event that you know youguys held spectacular yesterday.
You're building a brand, you'rebuilding a a following of
people who get the like youknow, these people like you know
(07:58):
the the events on Saturday, buta lot of people have very
exciting Saturday plans, butthey chose, you know what, I'm
gonna come to business adventurestreet and I'm gonna listen to
you guys and listen to all thepeople that are connected to
your brand.
It's like you build thisfollowing of of like-minded
people.
Um and I think now more thanever, it's it's just
(08:18):
exceptionally important.
Like with AI, I think there'sso much information wherever you
want it.
Like, if I want informationabout something, I can find it.
But the difference is is havingsomeone give you that
information and intertwine likeyou know, their own personal
story, their own experience.
(08:38):
Which makes you trust them.
Like, you know, I think I goback to uh your story yesterday
on stage then as um as one ofthe things that really stuck
with me stuck with me yesterdayabout the event.
If you told any other storythat was like, you know, just a
(08:59):
generic story, you can just pickit off the shelf, people
probably would have stoppedlistening on the phone, but it
was that personal story thatcomes with building a personal
brand and being authentic thatyou know really hit home for me.
Dr Dan (09:13):
And I'll tell you what, you made me think just whilst
you were talking there about meas a dentist, you made me
reflect on what makes me mypersonal brand as a dentist.
And and I was just thinkingwhilst you were talking, there
was stuff going on inside of myhead just to try and identify
what it is that contributes tomaking me a personal brand.
(09:33):
Is it the letters after myname?
Well, probably not, becausethat's not me.
Is it the fact that I've gotdoctor in front of my name?
Well, probably not either.
It used to be maybe 30 yearsago, but but nowadays it's very
different.
And I think it's based aroundcommunication skills.
What's your USP or uniqueselling point?
And that is the way that youtalk with your patients, the way
(09:56):
you present yourself.
And I met some dentistsyesterday, and um, you know, I'm
sure you've met lots yourself,um, who have you know 20,000
followers on Instagram.
They have an Instagram pagefull of pictures of lovely teeth
that they've done, and youknow, that's built a brand for
them.
Yeah, but without that thosecommunication skills and that
(10:17):
integrity, that I am me as adentist who you can trust, and
it's a mixture of expertise andlikability.
Yeah, definitely, and if youget the mix right between
expertise and you can showcasethat um, you know, to your
patients, like I'm really goodat fillings, or I'm really good
at crowns, or I'm really, youknow, whatever, uh, or I'm a
(10:37):
good endodontist.
And then likability.
Well, you know, you can trustme, you can talk to me, you can
you know, tell me all kinds ofstuff, and we hear all kinds of
things in the dental surgery.
If you mix those two properly,you get trust.
And this is what patients want,and this is how you build your
brand.
And and so I was justreflecting on that and thinking,
in fact, that integrity is soimportant as the USP behind your
(11:02):
personal brand.
Rahil (11:03):
100%, and it again it comes back to a lot of dentists
will focus on the service thatthey offer the what be it you
know, be that um Carolina's likeinvisible, be that implants, be
it bonding, be it whatever, butfrom a customer's point of
view, the majority of themaren't educated enough to notice
(11:25):
the the clinical skill, likeyou know, the gap in clinical
skill.
They think, okay, a dentist isa dentist.
Dr Dan (11:31):
Yeah.
Rahil (11:31):
So what are they actually choosing?
They're buying into you as aperson.
And that's where like you know,your story, your why, you know,
your authenticity, integrity,that likability, and actually,
you know, coming across asyourself.
Like there's no ROI in comingacross as someone else.
The best thing you can do iskind of be authentic, and people
(11:53):
can tell when you're not.
Like, you know, I'm sure you'vebeen chatting to someone, and
you can tell that you know,you're very different in person
to how you are on social media,and you always you know that
mismatch is that it's like ashop window, isn't it?
Dr Dan (12:05):
So you look at the shop window or you look at the
practice website and you see allthese lovely nurses with the
hair done, uh, you know,lacquered back and smart
uniforms and all lined up at theright angle, your branding
colours match, and then you walkinto the surgery and the door
hinge creaks, and there's athere's a stain on the ceiling
tower where there was a leakingpipe last year in the winter.
And you think, hang on asecond, it doesn't match up to
(12:26):
my expectations.
Rahil (12:27):
Exactly.
Yeah, there's a sticky piece ofpaper on the reception desk
that says something irrelevant,and it's just like you portray
yourself as one thing, but forthe customer, it's that it's the
whole journey.
So if you are branding yourselfas something, every touch point
from like you know, obviouslyyour messaging on be your ads,
your social media, your website,yes, that digital journey is
(12:49):
massive, but also you've got to,you know, you've got to talk
the talk in the practice aswell.
So it's got to feel everythingthat you're you're saying is.
Dr James (12:57):
And you know what, Dan?
Um I actually at the event,yeah, actually, I actually had a
nipped out of the room uh uhwhat when you were on, when you
were talking, I was preoccupieddoing other things.
But what was that story thatyou shared on stage?
Dr Dan (13:09):
Just so quickly.
What I did is I shared threestories, but the particular
story that I think you'rereferring to is my own personal
experience through a griefjourney of losing my daughter,
she was stillborn 18 years ago.
And what I did is I took thatexperience as a grief journey
and tried to explain how someonein deep grief feels and how
that matches with theirprofessional life of being a
(13:31):
dentist on a daily basis, andhow it actually feels to sit
there being immersed in grief,and also after you've taken a
bit of time off, being backbeing a dentist and having that
dentist persona andprofessionalism to meet
patients, meet 20 patients a dayor 30 patients, whatever it is,
go through the motions, but yetyou feel like you're you know
(13:54):
disembodied looking down atyourself for a film script
because you know that thereality is that you're in this
grief journey, and and that'svery difficult for professionals
because you know, dentists,doctors, lawyers, working in a
shop, you know, whatever yourwalk of life, it doesn't really
make any difference.
You still eventually need to goout and make money and work and
(14:15):
bring home money for food andrent and bills, but yeah, that's
very, very difficult toreconcile the two.
And when I looked out to theaudience and I said to them, and
and I didn't use that personalstory in order to upset the
audience at all, it was in factthe opposite.
I didn't see anyone crying, butI saw people nodding, and they
(14:36):
recognized when I said to them,anyone who's been through
difficulty, divorce, grief, allthese life events, and you need
to integrate that with yourprofessional life.
That is really, reallydifficult.
It's just not easy, andeveryone nods around them
because everyone recognises thatidea, and they've also been
(14:56):
through that idea, and it can besomething maybe not traumatic,
you know, you've had a new baby,and until that baby's about you
know 20 years old, their life'sgonna affect yours in so many
different ways, when they're achild alone, when they're
sleepless, you know, whenthey're growing up, when they're
a teenager, you've got worries,you're still gonna be a
(15:17):
dentist.
That's an amazing idea.
So that's the kind of story Iwas telling.
Dr James (15:26):
Understood.
And you know, Dan, it'sinteresting because I know
obviously you you've always beensomeone who's up for putting
themselves out there, but Iguess uh what has I is it fair
to say that that's maybe beenaccelerated over the last year
or so since we started businessof dentistry, that's grown even
more?
Would you me putting myself outthere?
I I guess maybe just uh youyeah, well the amount of the the
(15:49):
content that you're is goingout that's going out and uh your
visibility and everything alongthose lines, would you agree?
Dr Dan (15:55):
So so as far as my personal uh development goes,
I've always been very keen ondigital production, digital
architecture.
I love uh websites, I love filmproduction, I love all of that
side of stuff, including 3Dscaling technology and printing.
I'm just fascinated by anythingdigital.
And my personal contentproduction, yes, it has uh
(16:17):
ramped up, and that's actuallysince COVID.
Because when Dent Street gottaken away and your identity uh
as Dr.
Shaffer, uh you know, with theBDS after your name, that gets
stripped away because you closeddown for seven months.
You think, well, what am Igonna do?
You know, what am I just gonnasit here?
No, well, actually, I love filmproduction.
(16:37):
I've wanted to do it for years,never had the time and the
opportunity to spend ondeveloping those skills.
So I sat down and I learnedAdobe Premiere, I learned web
design, I learned marketing, Ilearned, you know, content
production, and that's when itreally ramped up because it
freed me up when I realized thatthis artistic um skill and
sensitivity had been hidingbehind the science for decades
(17:00):
of being a dentist, and it alljust blew out the water.
So you're absolutely right,yeah.
In the past few years, yes, thethe content production um and
getting myself out of there hasincreased.
I feel very comfortable on astage in front of hundreds of
people or doing small groupcourses or being behind the
camera or in front of a camera.
Dr James (17:19):
I I just really enjoyed it all.
Sure, and you know, I justwanted to ask you one thing on
that, and then I want to bringRat Hill in on the kind of
mechanics of it effectively.
But what have you noticed, whatbenefits have you noticed in
your life since you started toaccelerate, accelerate that
journey, or accelerate that sideof your career, I guess,
really, where you're puttingyourself out there more.
How has that benefited?
(17:40):
Because I think for me, onesomething that held me back in
the day was I was just like, howmuch will that help?
Will that actually make adifference?
And you know, a lot of peopleare afraid to speak publicly and
do content and things alongthose lines.
And it's like there's thatfear.
There's there's a I love thatthere's a saying that I heard,
and it's uh I I it reallyresonated with me.
(18:01):
It was comfort zones, uh theythey what's what's the word I'm
looking for?
They um disguise themselves isthe word I'm looking for.
Comfort zones disguisethemselves as logic, okay?
Comfort zones disguised aslogic, right?
And it's like you feel scared,and how your brain that's a
subconscious feeling that youfeel, like in the like the deep
(18:22):
part of your brain, and how yourconscious part of your brain
rationalizes that is oh well, itprobably won't really help you
that much anyway.
It it probably really isn'tthat good a thing to do, you
know what I mean?
Whereas in reality, it can't itit is, and you know that on
some level, but that's how werationalize our fear, and it's
so important to not, it's soimportant to be self-aware
enough to understand that,right?
(18:43):
And definitely I did that a lotback in the day, and it held me
back, and now I have been onthe other side of that.
I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
I love doing this stuff, youknow what I mean?
So I guess a lot of people areyet to see that.
So in order to help thosepeople understand why it's
beneficial, how do you feel it'shelped you in your life, or
(19:03):
what's changed since you startedto accelerate that?
Dr Dan (19:05):
Well, I know you like your quotes.
What about Beverly Knight?
Shoulda woulda coulda.
And I always think shouldawoulda coulda means you're out
of time.
Yeah, so you can say, well, Ishould have done that, I would
have done that, I could havedone that, but actually going
out there and doing it and thenchecking it out there is much
better.
And another quote for you, theDr.
Pepper advert, what's the worstthat can happen?
You know, someone's gonna thinksomeone's gonna call you an
(19:26):
idiot.
So does it really matter?
You know, if you go wrong, yousay the wrong thing, or it
doesn't, your video doesn'tquite work, you know, whatever
it is, you put your content outthere and it flops, no one's
gonna remember it tomorrow.
You're only as good as yourlast bit of content, and you can
do another boost tomorrow.
So I I kind of lost fear ofthat kind of side of things, and
just you know, carry on doingwhat you're doing.
(19:46):
If you're enjoying it andyou're putting quality stuff out
there that you know respectsintegrity, and uh, you know,
people quite like it and theytalk to you about it, then
you're probably doing somethingright.
Carry on doing it.
And if people don't notice itand you're enjoying it, then
still do it.
unknown (20:01):
Yeah.
Dr James (20:02):
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of this podcast.
I think a lot of people arejust scared, I guess, of making
themselves look silly, aren'tthey?
Right.
But there's a reallyinteresting thought experiment
that you can play where you justthink in your head, can you
consciously you probably sawsomebody do something silly at
least seven days ago, right?
Within the last week, okay.
(22:09):
But I can't remember what anyof those things are off the top
of my head, right?
Like that's genuinely howpeople perceive you as well.
Like they literally don't care,you know?
And it's kind of like they'rebecoming funny about it as much
as you do.
Literally, right?
It's a bigger thing in yourhead.
But yeah, no, this this this isthe thing.
And I wanted to bring you onthis one, on this one, Rahel,
because you've you helped youliterally helped dentists do
this, right?
(22:29):
Like this is literally yournine-five, right?
Or at least part of it anyway,right?
And uh I guess I'm curious toask you.
So we've we've heard thebenefits a little bit, we've
kind of explored how that looks.
How does a dentist actually dothat?
Like, how does that look?
How does that actually manifestin their life?
Is it content?
Is it public speaking?
Is it something else that wehaven't talked about up until
(22:51):
now?
Rahil (22:51):
But there's there's all there's all sorts of different
ways that you can do it.
Like obviously content is theyou know the one that's trending
right now, shall we say.
But there's so many you knowdifferent forms of content as
well.
I think everyone is veryobsessed, and rightly so, with
the way that the you know theapps are pushing it with video
content and wanting to, youknow, similar to what we're
doing today, like you know,having this, you know, having
(23:13):
this conversation.
But what I've kind of realizedis that if you're not
comfortable being on camera,yes, you still need to let push
yourself out of your comfortzone and try these new things.
But if it gets to that stagewhere you resent it every time
you get on camera, there are somany other forms of content that
(23:36):
people just don't think of.
I think like LinkedIn, forexample, some people, while they
may not be able to articulatetheir points on camera, when it
comes to writing it down, oh mygod, I can scroll through some
of their posts for for days.
And there's so many, so manypeople in the in the industry
who do that really well.
So it's finding kind of acontent medium that works for
(23:59):
you as well is another big thingfor dentists, because you know,
not everyone is comfortable onvideo.
But I think the the big thingthat we try to do when it comes
to branding, personal branding,is trying to really get
something of like why are youdoing this?
Like, you know, for some peopleit's you know, there's no point
having a a brand just for thesake of it.
(24:20):
For a you know, for a practiceand for a dentist, there's
completely different reasons tohave a brand.
For an associate, like youknow, you're bound by the
practice that you work in.
But let's say if that principaldecides to sell, what happens
to you?
For them, building a personalbrand, showing off their cases,
showing off their theirexpertise, but also them as a
(24:42):
person, getting people to buyinto them, not only brings them
patience, but it alsofuture-proofs them that just in
case they do leave that practiceand they need to go somewhere
else, they have this foundationto fall back on.
It's a possible brand, yourpersonal brand.
It follows you wherever you go.
It's not you know bound to thepractice.
And then from a practice'spoint of view, like you, you
(25:03):
know, you can name you knowprobably 10, 20 massive brands
in dentistry off the top of yourhead.
And like, you know, weobviously you know specialize in
Invisalign a lot, and there'sthis big fear at the minute of
this race for the bottom.
But then you'll see there'ssome practices and some brands
that are able to consistentlycharge a high price and nobody
bats an eyelid.
(25:23):
Why?
Because they've built theirbrand already.
People know what it is thatthey're gonna get from them and
they trust them to do it.
So instead of having to competeon price, they maintain
themselves as as one of the likeas one of the luxury kind of
practices in the market.
So for them, they get patientskind of coming to them because
they've already done the gruntwork of building the brand,
(25:45):
putting themselves out there,letting it be known that this is
what we do, and backing it upwith proof.
Whereas everyone else isundercutting each other and
this, that, and these guys areactually getting patients to to
come to them, which obviouslymakes your you know your
marketing easy.
If you've got a recognizablebrand and you know, you think
about it not just in dentistry,which is what I think we we
(26:07):
always get bogged down to thinkwe like to live in this little
bubble.
But what we've you know, whatwe're trying to train people to
do is actually look outside ofdentistry and you know, look at
all of these big brands that youtrust.
Whenever you uh need to make adecision, you don't know what to
do, you're most likely gonnafall back on something that you
trust.
That's just you know, humannature.
(26:28):
So there's so many benefits andfor you know both practices and
you know associates to to buildit.
Um but actually finding out whyyou want to do this is is kind
of where we start and realizingthat you know this isn't just oh
yeah, slap a logo on myInstagram posts or you know, a
(26:49):
nice fancy new you know,homepage on the website solves
everything.
There is like you know, so muchmore that kind of that kind of
goes into it than that.
Is Instagram still the go-to tobuild a personal brand?
I think meta as a I think metaas a whole is is you know where
we go.
Um and it's purely because it'swhere like our audiences, if
(27:12):
you look at like you know,everyone's average screen time,
for example, but I think thatmetric just keeps going up and
up and up.
I think I think you know mineis about nine hours.
Dr James (27:22):
It's shocking, isn't it?
You know, when you get thatlittle notification at the end
of the day, and I'm like, howhave I spent six hours on the
phone today?
Like, I I just don't know howthat's happened, you know.
Rahil (27:33):
And if you can you can break it down by like where you
spend it in terms of your appsas well.
Oh, and I it's the same appsthat always up here on mine at
the top, but it's not just thisway for us, it's the same for
like you know, our audience aswell.
They're the ones also spendingtime on this, and the way that
the algorithms are with socialmedia now, they're so clever.
And like, you know, people getyou know so confused with the
(27:55):
algorithms these days.
And the way I kind of like tolook at it and reframe it is the
algorithm's job is to keep youon that app for as long as
possible.
So they need to show youcontent that is you know gonna
either entertain you or solveyour problem or make you feel C.
They want to keep you on thatapp as long as possible.
(28:15):
And Instagram, like you know,meta as a whole, do that
phenomenally well.
Um, and you either be a youknow, you're either creator or
you're a consumer.
You either sit there scrolling,doom scrolling, or you're
actually like, you know, this iswhere my potential patients
are.
I'm gonna put myself out thereand and go and do it.
You'll be hard pressed to findsomeone without an Instagram
(28:37):
account these days.
I'm pretty sure if you did ayou know hands up with your, you
know, with the 400 people thatyou had yesterday, I'd be
surprised if that if there'sanyone there without a meta
account.
And it's probably the same forthe people, you know, out on the
street, there are potentialpatients.
Like, you know, this is wherethey spend their time.
So you've got to you've got togo to them.
Dr Dan (28:56):
And and and it's really interesting actually what you're
saying because that infinitescrolling made up of autoplay
videos, video content is king,of course.
So if you're watching video,short form video, you've got to,
if you want to uh have yourselfin there, you've got to create
short-term video because you'recompeting.
So you as a dentist or you as adental practice, short-term
(29:18):
video, uh short-form video isabsolutely king because that's
what people are watchingconstantly on doing scrolling
six hours or nine hours.
And another really interestinguh thing that happened when they
started taking phones out ofschools was they realized that
uh even though school childrendidn't have phones, secondary
school children, during thedaytime, they still had the same
(29:39):
average screen time by the endof the day because they made up
for it after school time.
And and that's fascinating, andI'm sure it's the same in
adults as children.
It's gonna be no different.
Just because you take yourphone away or put it somewhere
else or stop uh you know,looking at content, you will
then make up for it in theevening.
Yeah.
Rahil (29:58):
It's fascinating.
The algorithms are that that'sso good these days, isn't it?
It's like you know, everyone'sfeed is just perfectly created
for you.
Dr Dan (30:07):
Yeah.
Um here is changing though.
So I hear that they're they'reactually introducing a lot more
random stuff instead ofalgorithmic triggers, and and
that keeps it fresh becauseeveryone's a little bit bored of
being in an echo chamber.
Rahil (30:22):
Yeah, so it kind of depends on, you know, it kind of
depends on the content youengage with and the content that
you like.
So, you know, if you get avideo and you're on it for two
seconds and you swipe up, thealgorithm is like, okay, this
sort of content this personisn't engaging with.
But if you watch a video thewhole way through, it sends
another signal to the algorithmthat he likes this sort of
(30:44):
content, I'm gonna push more ofit.
Um so the like you know, thealgorithms are are so clever
these days, but what I thinkdentists sometimes fail to get
with them is, and it comes backto this, you know, living inside
the bubble.
You're not just in competitionwith other dentists when it
comes to the algorithm.
You are in competition withsomeone, you know, someone just
(31:06):
got engaged, someone's just goneon holiday, there's you know,
all of this um AI brain rockcontent, there's like you know,
all these funny that you'rethat's where your content's
sitting.
It's not sitting in like youknow, this echo chamber of just
dental content, it is sitting ina you know, you know, on social
media with everything else.
So if your content is literallyjust one thing over and over
(31:28):
again, and for majority ofdentists is that static before
and after, you're not just inthis, you know, compared to
other dentists before and after,you're compared to everything.
And if people think, oh yeah,this doesn't fit what I usually
like, they scroll past it.
It's just finding, you know,each platform's made for
different things, and it'srealizing that okay, I need to
(31:51):
play to the platform strengthshere.
Like, you know, you're notgonna as much as we want to,
we're not gonna change the waythat Instagram or Facebook or or
LinkedIn is.
You know, they're built forspecific purposes and your
content has to you know.
Dr Dan (32:04):
And it's not just about socials, is it?
I mean, as a dental clinic,your position not just against
other dental clinics like itused to be decades ago.
Consumers, I'm gonna call themconsumers not patients.
Yep.
They're consumers.
Your patients are consumers,and they're gonna compare your
practice and your service toBarclays Bank or Virgin Trains
or uh, you know, budgings, oryou know, whatever else, other
(32:27):
levels they use hotels,wellness, but like you see.
When they come in, they'reexpecting the level of service
that they get from othercompanies and businesses.
Rahil (32:35):
You see, practices these days they look more like you
know, wellness retreats thanthey do dental practices now.
And it's you can remember DavidLloyd Jim's.
Exactly.
Um it's it's like you know,like it's moved far beyond just
like you know the uh you knowwhat it used to be before with
just you know how a typical NHSpractice used to look.
(32:55):
Um and then it it comes down toagain that branding.
Like, you know, it's not justobviously what you see on social
media, it's all of these touchpoints from when they walk into
the practice.
One thing that like that we'reexperimenting with is like how
does the practice smell likewhen you walk in?
Yeah, it's the same thing whenyou walk into a luxury hotel.
There's always a smell.
And and things you don't thinkabout, like how thick is the
(33:15):
toilet paper?
Or you know, weird, but youknow, is the loot brush new?
It's the most ignored part of adental practice is the toilet.
Everyone puts so much emphasison, oh, I need this dental
chair, I need this, like youknow, I need this screen above
the patient.
But then a lot of patients,when they you know, when they
actually come into the practiceand they need the toilet and it
looks run down or it's in thecorner, it's like, what image
(33:38):
does that send?
Dr Dan (33:39):
Do people use the toilet as kind of uh like a milestone
almost, like a marker?
And I know my wife when shegoes to people's houses, and I
hope none of my friends arelistening to this, because you
know, she'll go into the loo andshe'll comment later on on oh,
that loo was lovely.
Well, you know, it wasn't thewallpaper.
No, they've just done it, oryou know, very clean house.
You know, the the toilet is theheart of the home in a way.
(34:01):
It's very weird to think of itlike that.
Dr James (34:03):
There's a standing right, and it's something along
the lines of you can judge thesophistication of society by the
standard of their bathrooms orsomething.
There's something like that.
I remember reading thatsomewhere, and um, I remember
someone quoted that, and thenthey said, and if that's true,
Japan is the pinnacle of um uhthe developed world, I guess,
really.
I did this anyway.
(34:24):
Moving on.
Dr Dan (34:25):
No, I did this at the hotel.
When I walked into thebathroom, I checked behind the
door for any dust on the floorto see whether the room's clean.
Yeah, people do use arbitrarymarkers in dental clinics as
well as looking at social.
Dr James (34:37):
Okay.
Dr Dan (34:37):
Like in socials, is the logo central?
Is it proper?
Is it you know, is it a bitscrappy?
And if you don't do itproperly, then people notice it
very quickly.
Dr James (34:46):
What did what good point, good point, Dan?
And what do what do dentists dowrong when it comes to their
personal brand, Rahil?
Like, where do they mess up?
Like, what has you scrollingthrough your Instagram feed and
you see something and you'relike, oh man, seriously?
Rahil (34:59):
Uh the biggest thing that a lot of them do wrong is they
don't do it.
Is honestly if you reach if youwant if you if you want the
biggest thing is that they don'tthey don't see the importance
of it.
Um, I think for both practicesand associates, I think we've
covered it like you know indepth.
Like there are so many benefitsto like you know actually being
(35:20):
able to be seen.
Because if you're if you're noton, you know, if you're not
doing this, you're justinvisible.
Like, you know, you're relyingon people to find you in ways
that, yes, people still use it,but you've got to adapt to the
way that you know yourcustomers, you know, they're
they're buying and theirsearching habits are.
And you know, I'm pretty surewe can we can all attest to it
now.
It's no longer just as simpleas, oh, I see uh, you know, I
(35:44):
see an ad, I go to a landingpage, I book in, yep, it's done.
It's like you're inviting themalmost to be part of your world
now.
The amount of touch points ittakes someone to actually submit
an inquiry has gone through theroof.
I think some people are sayingthey need to see you like
upwards of like 10, 15 timesbefore they're like, especially
if they have no knowledge ofyou, to actually book that first
(36:05):
appointment with you.
Now, if you consider it interms of right, if they need to
see me 15 times and then notseeing me on social media,
suddenly that 15 times is like,well, where you know, where you
know where where are they gonnafind me?
So, in that sense, if you'renot doing it, you're invisible.
Um, so actually getting startedis is a massive thing.
And then the other thing iskind of following what the you
(36:30):
know what the biggest names inthe industry are doing is
another one.
Um and you know, there'snothing wrong with taking
inspiration.
I think we all do it, like bothinside and outside of
dentistry.
We all kind of look forinspiration wherever we can find
it.
But just copying someone justbecause, oh yeah, you know,
let's say, you know, I think thethe big example is uh is Milad,
(36:51):
the singing dentist.
Like, you know, just becausehe's made it, you know, you
know, he's made his brand doingit this way, doesn't mean that
someone else can just come inlike, yep, I'm gonna now start
making dental parodies and besuccessful.
But he did it, and the way thathe does it is so authentic,
it's so real, it's so him thatit's worked.
If someone else does it andjust doing, and you know, they
(37:12):
can someone can tell you justdoing it for the views, it won't
have the same effect.
And you were talking aboutinfluencers before, and
obviously they've got a bigfollowing.
But the amount of influencersthat will launch something, like
you know, they'll launch aproduct, they'll launch a
course, they'll endorsesomething, and people won't buy
it because they're not actuallybought into like that influencer
as a person, they just youknow, they just follow them
(37:34):
because they made a trendingreel that they liked or
something.
It's not necessarily abouthaving the biggest following.
I think that's what a lot ofpeople get confused about.
It's not like you know, wedon't need to go viral as a
dentist a lot of the time, butyou need to have the right
people following you, the rightpeople trusting you, buying into
your message, and that's whatreally you know makes a
difference and compounds overtime.
Dr James (37:56):
Nice.
And yeah, I mean, uh, how can Isay this?
I think for a lot of peopleit's it's just getting started,
really, isn't it?
And would you say the biggestbarrier is mainly comfort zones?
Rahil (38:10):
Yeah, I think you know, in in one sense, it's like I'm
you know, I I'm on this journeynow myself.
I think the the team have beenon me to you know starting my
own personal brand, and I'm nowencountering the same thing that
every dentist is constantlymoaning at me about, and I'm
saying, no, you've just gotta doit.
Is you know, it's it's noteasy.
(38:30):
It is not easy to like youknow, put yourself out there and
you know be open, open tojudgments.
Um, but I think the thing thatI'm starting to you know to
realise is that I willover-analyse my content so much
more than than anyone else will.
So it is in essence like agetting, you know, figuring out
(38:51):
why you're doing it, and thenbreaking it up into you know,
you don't need to do everythingat once.
You're not gonna go fromstarting it tomorrow to you know
famous in in in a week.
It's very rare to haveovernight successes, as you both
know in Dentashkir.
It takes time, it takesrepetitions.
Like people compare socialmedia to the gym, and they
(39:11):
expect, oh yeah, first postgonna go viral.
It's like going to the gym onceand expecting to be completely
ripped.
No, but what it does is itteaches you like you know, okay,
this is what I need to do, andit's reps, reps, reps, finding
out what exercises you'recomfortable with.
Like, you know, some peoplehate certain exercises in the
gym and they'll go away fromthem, but they love this.
(39:33):
It's just finding out whatyou're you know, what you're
comfortable with, and then justreps, reps, reps.
There's no substitution for it.
Dr James (39:39):
And I guess where you can help is you can obviously
set up and you can advise, Iguess, really, on how I dentist
goes about that, because you'veseen it so many times.
Rahil (39:48):
Yeah, so we we help in obviously a couple of different
ways.
Um, we help on the on the kindof branding and personal
branding front in kind ofhelping them to you know
articulate their story andactually figure out, okay, this
is where we are now, and this iswhere we, you know, this is
where we want to be in the nextcouple of years.
(40:08):
And a lot of brands, like youknow, they were set up 15 years
ago and haven't been touched,and it doesn't reflect where
that person is now.
So we kind of take you knowtheir journey, their story, and
basically bring it into wherethey are and where they want to
be.
And obviously that does involvea visual element with you know,
with logos, with colourpalettes and everything to do
(40:29):
with that.
And then on the social mediaside, we do a we do more of a
dung-for-you process.
Because what we found is whenwe give dentists the freedom of
okay, we want you to film X, Y,and Z for us, and this is how
like you know, this is what wewant you to do, these same
doubts crept in.
So, what we'll do is we'll goin there all with a pre-agreed
(40:50):
kind of content plan, and oncewe filmed everything with them,
we'll be, you know, we'll be theones editing it, captioning it,
posting it, looking at all thereporting, the metrics,
everything, and just leavingthem with the time, like you
know, with the time saved to goand do what they love, which is
the clinical dentistry, andleaving us to kind of manage
(41:10):
that account for them, and thenobviously we come back, we look
at what's worked, what hasn't,and just accelerate on from
there.
Dr James (41:16):
Can you give me just one thing just to round off on?
Can you give me an example justto make this really tangible
for the audience?
Can you give us a case studyoff the top of your head where
you had dentist, Mr.
Smith, Dr.
Smith, and he or she they werea little nervous to get out
there, then they kind of stolethe light, they went and did it.
And when they did that, whatthen happened was the practice
(41:38):
grew by examined, or they wereable to leave their job as an
associate and start a squat orsomething along those lines.
I think you can think about it.
Dr Dan (41:45):
When you said stall the light and the lights came on.
Dr James (41:47):
You know what?
I've just realized that thelights are linked to us moving
around because they saw a randommove.
Dr Dan (41:55):
Exactly.
That was like uh a perfectInstagram moment.
Dr James (41:59):
I was waiting for that moment.
I was I was I was waiting touse that nine and then turn the
lights on.
That's what actually happened.
But yes, there we go.
It was all scripted.
But yes, anyway, uh Randallcase studies that you can think
of.
I'm sure you've had a few overthe years.
Rahil (42:13):
Oh, yeah, there's there's so many case studies on the on
the social media side, and Ithink on the on the personal
branding side, the it's a bitharder to it's a bit harder to
think on the personal brandingside.
It's it's one of those, youknow, when you you most need it,
they just escape your head.
Uh they're all on they're allon like our socials and our
(42:35):
website, which is reallyannoying.
Um but in terms of likepractices that we work with,
like you know, Lenin Dentals,Lenin Dentals, one of them, they
came to us and they wereliterally like barely posting,
like they knew the value in it.
Dr James (42:48):
Yeah.
Rahil (42:48):
And they every so often get a surge of motivation to do
it, and they become so activefor a week and then busy
practice, things to do.
What's the first thing to dropthat drops off?
Oh yeah, like you know, wedon't need you know, we don't
need social media this week,it's fine.
But you know, they they knewwhat they you know, they knew
that the platform rewardedconsistency consistency, and
(43:08):
they knew that they wanted tolike, you know, it's where their
patients are and they want topush themselves out there.
So they kind of came to us anduh we've been working with them
for I think about six to ninemonths now.
And I think if you look attheir if you look at their
stats, like you know, in termsof the the metrics that everyone
looks like, you know, theirtheir followers, their views,
everything like that iscompletely like I don't think
(43:30):
they've ever had ever had statslike it.
But I think the thing for usthat is always you know the
thing that we look at is they'reactually getting patience from
their organic social media.
So as much as we love to focuson, oh yeah, they've increased
their follower count by you knowsix, seven hundred, and you
know their video views are nowlike you know in the in you know
(43:50):
around one thousand, twothousand per video, whereas
before it was you know around acouple of hundred.
Like you know, these metricsare great, but what actually is
you know, what is this doing forthe practice?
Yes, it's making us morevisible and it's actually
bringing patients in.
And each of those patients,you're not you know, turning the
paid lead, you know, the paidadvertising tap on and having to
(44:13):
to pay for all of them actuallycoming to you naturally.
Um so those are always like thebiggest wins for us when we see
both associates and andpractice kind of actually
getting those results from itfrom a patient point of view.
I think it'll
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