March 20, 2026 • 39 mins
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A drill-free future sounds like marketing hype, until you see the tools that are already changing day-to-day dentistry. Dan joins me for a wide-ranging, practical chat that starts with career reflection and ends with a clear view of where digital dentistry and AI are genuinely useful, where they raise hard questions, and how practice owners can respond without losing the human side of care.
We dig into what happens when you understand both the clinical and laboratory sides of restorative work and why digital workflows make accountability unavoidable. That leads to the uncomfortable truth many dentists share: perfectionism can be built into the job, because “perfect” is not a single standard. It shifts with anatomy, materials, patient expectations, and the judgement calls you can’t reduce to a checklist.
From there, we look at the new wave of dental AI and innovation we’re seeing at shows: Pearl Dental AI as a communication and diagnostic support tool for spotting early caries on radiographs, and Curodont as a peptide-based treatment approach aimed at remineralising suitable early lesions rather than automatically reaching for the handpiece. We also explore “robo reception” systems that can answer calls at scale, handle bookings, and reduce pressure on front-desk teams, while still protecting boundaries around medical advice and safeguarding.
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Dr James (01:43):
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Well, this is an episode.
(02:27):
Dan, so it's good to have youalong because I know that you
and I spend a lot of timetalking on the phone about this
among other things, and it'seasy to get a bit romantic about
it, I guess, really, becauseyeah, it's it's just really cool
(02:48):
and it's enlightening and it'sreally powerful as well.
And that's very much the themeof this podcast.
It's reflections on thejourney, I guess, and where it's
both got us to.
But Dan, I'm just veryconscious that this is the first
time I believe that you've beenon the Dentist Invest podcast.
So maybe it might be nice justto do a quick intro and a quick
hello for the benefit of theaudience.
Dr Dan (03:08):
Sure.
So talking about experience, Imean, I I feel like I've
traveled the length and breadthof dentistry, if you like, over
the past 30 years of uh mydental career in a way that I've
worked in the community dentalservices, NHS, private,
academia.
You know, I've been involved inuh presentations and the
business side of dentistry aswell as the clinical side of
(03:30):
dentistry.
And um, yeah, I'm quitecontemplative at the moment, uh,
this year especially.
Uh I'm 50 years old now, soI've hit 50.
Uh sorry I didn't invite you tomy uh party, James.
Uh, you know, but maybe my51st.
Dr James (03:45):
Still in the post.
Still in the post.
Dr Dan (03:46):
Yeah, still in the post.
The invitation got lost.
Um and uh, you know, reaching50 makes you contemplate the
past 30 years of career andwhat's gone well, what's gone
badly, um, how you've dealt withthings and how you feel about
not only the past but also thefuture, which uh, you know,
perhaps we'll get to a littlebit later on.
But as far as the past go,yeah, I'm very reflective about
(04:10):
uh my career, certainly.
Dr James (04:12):
And I think it's fair to say you've learned a few
things over the years, becauseone thing that really I found
interesting about yourself, Dan,was that you used to be a
technician before you were adentist, right?
Dr Dan (04:22):
Oh, so that's not strictly true.
So I am I do have a dualqualification, so I have a BDS
for dentistry and an RDT for uhbeing a technician.
But it's really funny because Iwas teaching down in Guy's
Hospital for six years as aclinical tutor.
I was teaching fourth and fifthyear dental students how to
make dentures removableprosthetics on floor 21 of Guy's
(04:43):
Tower, for those of you thatknow it, which is a fantastic
place uh to work and uh tointeract with the most
incredibly intelligent uh dentalstudents, far more intelligent
than I am, and the kind ofquestions they come up with.
I think you learn more fromyour students than uh you know
you learn from the books,certainly.
Um but it was reallyinteresting because I was
(05:03):
involved on the lab side ofdentistry.
So whilst I was teaching atGuise, I um started to apply
some lab work to Guise, um,thinking that it would be a
straightforward uh business ideato do that.
Uh I was also working in alaboratory in Hertfordshire as
well at the time.
So I was part-time teaching andpart-time in the lab.
(05:24):
And this was a time when thetechnician's register was still
open.
And what that meant was thatbecause I was spending so much
time in the laboratory andbecause uh I'd increased my
knowledge of the technical sizequite considerably, I was
grandfathered onto the register.
And what that meant was that umI became a technician uh by
(05:44):
default, and uh I found itreally interesting meeting lots
of other techs.
Techs are a separate side ofthe industry that dentists don't
really understand properly, Ifeel.
And techs feel that.
Um tax, you mean lab techs?
Techs, technicians, yeah, labtechs.
Dr James (06:04):
Never heard them refer to as tax, just wanted to
confirm that.
But yeah, okay.
Dr Dan (06:07):
Yeah, so techs, lab techs, uh technicians.
They sit behind their desks allday long making stuff and you
know, sending it out to thedentist.
The dentist receives it in apackage and they open it and
they say, right, well, that'sgreat, let's fit it.
And they don't thinknecessarily about all the work
that goes on behind it.
Lab technicians uh find itquite difficult a lot of the
(06:29):
time to communicate well withdentists, and and that can be a
little bit um disheartening fortechnicians, I think, is that
there's a break.
Now, for myself, I starteddoing a lot of digital
dentistry, and of course,delivering the clinical
dentistry and being thetechnician as well doesn't leave
you anywhere to hide.
You know, you can't turn aroundas the dentist and blame the
(06:50):
technician and say, right, well,this crown doesn't fit, must be
your fault.
And the technician turns aroundand says, Well, you didn't take
a very good impression or scan,and it's your fault.
When you're both, there'snowhere to hide, and that really
enhanced the um the continuitythrough the case and the
workflow for me, because it itgave me the opportunity to
(07:11):
examine every stage of theprocess and it improved my
dentistry, no end.
Not only that, but also thedigital integration of having a
scanner and seeing your preps upon screen.
Um, you might gather I lovedoing crowns, I love doing
bridge work, I love restorativedentistry, and so examining
really up close and zooming inon you know, up to a few microns
(07:32):
uh, you know, of accuracy,really enhanced dentistry, and
doing it the way that I did it.
And I felt that that was a realmilestone.
If you, you know, we weretalking about contemplating uh
careers at the beginning, andreally there's certain
milestones in your career as adentist, um, uh and also, you
know, as a lab technician andalso you know, as a dental
(07:54):
professional professionalcomplimentary to dentistry, but
digital integration wascertainly one of those moments
for me which changed dentistryfor me forever.
Dr James (08:03):
I bet your preps are pretty good.
Dr Dan (08:06):
Well, they've got better.
And and then it's dishearteningas well.
Dr James (08:09):
You don't have to be humble here.
You don't have to be humblehere.
If you're prep if your prepsare good, your preps are good,
it's fine.
You're you're allowed to sayit.
Dr Dan (08:15):
Listen, okay, I won't put you on the spotlight, but uh
when you No, I mean, true,truth be known, James, it's a re
it's a really good point.
I mean, my preps aren'tperfect, and and in fact, if you
talk about um, you know,contemplating and reflecting on
30 years in dentistry, uhthere's only a handful of times,
maybe twice or three times inmy career of 30 years where I've
(08:37):
been happy with the dentistrythat I've done.
That I've found that it's whatI would say approaching perfect,
which is a really weird ideabecause it means that every
single other of those 5,000crowns or 10,000, I don't know
how many crowns I've made, youknow, they're not perfect,
they're not exactly what I wouldwant them to be.
The fitting of the veneers, youknow, there's just a touch out
(08:59):
there, or I would have loved tobring the angle in slightly, or
the colours ever so slightly,you know.
And and what that means is thatyou gather this um sentiment
towards yourself when you're adentist, which is quite a common
idea in dentistry, that younever quite reach that level of
perfection and you're alwaysseeking it.
(09:19):
It's weird.
Dr James (09:21):
I I find that about dentistry as well.
In fact, that was one of thethings that frustrated me
slightly about it was it's justso hard to do it perfectly, and
what is perfect, your version ofperfect, is not necessarily
somebody else's version ofperfect as well.
In dentistry, I once hearddentistry described as an art
(09:41):
loosely bound by the rules ofscience, and I thought that was
really cool.
That actually made me rethinkdentistry.
I was like, okay, my goal is toless be scientific about it,
although obviously thoseparameters guide my judgment,
but more to express myself andalso craft and mold what the
(10:02):
textbook would say to thedesires of the patient and the
individual in front of me.
And I I always remember one aclinician once they were like,
Um, Jim, you know, I can't, youknow, I remember I was like
fresh out of uni, not to go on atangent, but I'm sharing this
stuff because it's valuable,right?
Uh, I remember when I came outof uni, and like uni wants you
to think in protocols, right?
Like, do this, then you dothis.
(10:24):
Then if the BPE is three, youdo this, or you do this, right?
Or the BPE is four, whatever,right?
There's like that uh the theperiod guidance that's out
there, right?
That guides people on thosesorts of things.
And that's just an example, butthere's loads of protocols, and
uni wants you to think it'swants you to think a lot more
along those lines, not 100%, buta lot more along those lines,
and then in the real world, it'sjust not like that.
(10:44):
And I always remember I hadthis clinician, this mentor, and
he said to me, he was like,James, you're letting you, you
know, and the people who arelistening to this podcast can't
see what I'm doing, but he hepointed to his head and he's
like, You're letting this governyour dentistry, whereas in
reality it does come from here,but it also comes from here.
And he pointed to his chest asin referring to his heart, and I
that made me rethink.
I was like, Oh, that'ssometimes why, even though I'm
(11:07):
following the protocol, thepatient doesn't feel heard or uh
things are not going quiteright.
It's because I'm not tailoringit to the person who's in front
of me.
And when you start thinkinglike that a lot more, I find it
very empowering for yourdentistry.
So maybe you find that as well.
Dr Dan (11:25):
Yeah, so that's subjective thought instead of
being completely objective.
That is what being a dentist isall about.
You know, you can follow adiagnostic pathway where you're
trying to put things together ina base, uh, in a what quite a
wide base, and narrowing andhome into a diagnosis, and then
offer the treatments that aregoing to solve that problem or
you know, fill the hole, or oryou know, fill the gap, or you
(11:46):
know, whatever it is you'retrying to achieve.
But at the end of the day,there's a lot of emotional uh
factors as well that are alittle bit more etheral and need
to be involved.
And so you're absolutely right.
It's not just a science, youcan't be binary about it, it's
either right or wrong.
There's no absolutenecessarily.
There's anecdotal evidence uhto bring into play, there's
peer-reviewed evidence as well,and then that helps, but you've
(12:08):
still got to use your brain as adentist.
And this is, I think, uh, youknow, it's a really interesting
time at the moment with AI andyou know artificial intelligence
coming into decision making andand uh healthcare in general,
but particularly in dentistry,we're thinking about the impact
it's gonna have over many yearsinto the future, not only on
workforces, but on workflows andthe way that we do things.
(12:29):
Now, how is it that we're goingto uh give over that subjective
kind of thinking to AI in in alot of ways to help us?
And we're going to get rid ofthat from our head, and we're
just going to let AI do that forus.
And I'll give you an example.
What about autonomous cars?
I mean, you know, we've got toprogram them with a morality
(12:53):
idea that, you know, let's say,for instance, the car's driving
along and it ends up with achoice of either uh knocking
over a single person uh who isrelatively young, you know,
let's say a child, uh, or itplows into a crowd of adults.
You know, how does theautonomous car come to a
decision which situation is thepreferable one?
(13:15):
And you know, it is it's a veryweird thing.
And then we've got to thinkbehind that.
Where's the responsibility withthat decision?
Is it with the car itself?
Is it with the driver?
Is it with the softwareprogrammer?
Is it with the people who ownthe AI?
And so these kind of decisionsand subjective thinking are
going to come into dentistry.
(13:35):
No doubt we're going to usethese aids, and we've got to
think about the kind of impactthat will have.
And I'm privileged in a way tohave been around before AI has
come because I think it's goingto complicate things.
I don't think it's necessarilygoing to make things easier all
the time.
I think it's going to bring anextra layer of complication.
Dr James (13:52):
You know, something really interesting in what
you're saying, and I don't wantto go on too much of a tangent
on this podcast, but I do wantto quickly drop this in.
I once read something in abook, and the book was called
Seeking Wisdom from CharlesDarwin to Charlie Munker.
Okay.
And it the book's not reallyabout anything in particular,
it's just about it's dividedinto chapters, or no, it's
(14:14):
divided into subjects, rather,because there's no continuity,
there's no timeline per se.
And it's like, here's somewisdom on money, here's some
wisdom on science, here's somewisdom on romance, like all
sorts of things.
A bit like The Almanac by NavalRavacant, and there was this
one thing in it, and it was likeum people try to, it was
(14:35):
something along the lines of theguy put it way more eloquently
than I'm about to put it, right?
But he was like, people thinkthat logic and emotional
thinking are actually twoseparate things, but actually
logic is governed by emotion,and here's why.
Because if you think about it,if you get out of bed, right,
and the logical you think toyourself, I want to be healthy,
but the logical choice is to goto the gym, right?
(14:57):
That's still an emotionaldecision because you're going
there because you want to feelgood and live long.
So it actually comes from youremotions in a roundabout way.
Even if you want to do reallywell on the math test, the most
logical thing of all time, youwant to do well because
emotionally it makes you feelgood in your life and it
enhances your job prospects,right?
So, really, really, reallyweirdly, if you actually go one
layer deeper on the logic ofhumans, uh, it actually is
(15:20):
always grounded in emotion.
And I just find that reallycool because I used to think
they were the separate, like twoseparate things.
Uh, but he was he was like,That was that's why your version
of logic will inherently neverbe the same as the next
person's, right?
It's actually not possible, youknow.
And um, it comes back to thecar thing as well.
That's logic, but it's actuallygrounded in the emotion of
(15:41):
humans, right?
Because it's reasoning toitself what is the lesser of two
evils in this situation?
Ideally, it doesn't have tomake that choice, but if it does
in a split second, what does itdo?
Right, but it's still based onminimizing the net negative
emotional impact of its actionson humans, its logic is still an
emotional outcome.
Anyway, not to go on a tangent,I just find that really cool
(16:03):
and relevant to what you weresaying.
Seeking wisdom from Charlie DarCharles Darwin to Charles
Munger, very good book.
Anyway, um, but yeah, just tobring this conversation back to
dentistry, AI and Dentistry, youand I go to a lot of dental
shows.
Uh, and we've certainly we dowe've ramped that up in 2026
because yeah, I mean, I get withthe I guess your conventional
(16:27):
conferences uh that are notconferences, expos really.
The the conventional ones aretrade exhibitions, yeah.
Trade exhibition is probablythe best term, right?
For the way that that'sconventionally done, is in
you've got a big old room fullof tradespeople.
Uh let's just say the footfallisn't where it used to be
conventionally.
Will that improve?
Will it diminish?
Who knows?
But that's just kind of thetrend that we've observed over
(16:49):
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(18:37):
of this podcast.
Dr Dan (18:42):
Yeah, I would I I'm actually sorry to interrupt you.
I'm quite surprised that thefootfall has uh seemed to
diminish at shows because Ithought that people would crave
after the pandemic and COVID andyou know everything that went
down.
And and I know we're still notquite in a place to process all
of that, even now.
You know, it's still going tobe a number of years before we
can reflect on that time in ourlives and how it affected us and
(19:05):
the world and you know,everything to do with the
dentistry, of course, becauseit's still quite, you know,
we're still quite emotionalabout it.
Um, but you would have expectedthe footfall to increase as
people crave that personalinteraction, but yet the bigger
trade shows they seem to haveseen, and this is what people
are reporting to uh to mecertainly when we discuss it, is
(19:27):
that they don't seem to have asmany people there, and they
don't seem to have as manypeople who are going to want to
interact with the trade from adentist's point of view or or a
decision maker's point of viewwithin practices, and that's an
interesting trend.
Dr James (19:44):
Yeah, who knows?
Some sort of uh what what's theword I'm looking for?
Sociology study to uh waitingto happen there.
But I I get what you're saying.
Hey, logic based on emotion,again, there we go.
Yeah, logically it would dothis, but yeah, emotionally for
some reason it's not happening.
But anyway, where I was goingwith that is um, you know, I
have some thoughts on some ofthe there is still some very
(20:05):
avant-garde stuff at thoseshows, right?
And I have some thoughts onsome of the coolest stuff that
I've seen, particularly at themost recent one that you and I
went to.
Well, what I want to know isfor the benefit of the audience,
what cool stuff have you seenat the shows that you think is
going to shake up dentistry?
Dr Dan (20:19):
Do you know?
I love I I'm not uh part of thedecrease football, I'm part of
the increase in football becauseI absolutely love shows.
I love uh, you know, talking toreps, I love talking to
companies, I love talking todentists, I love talking to
nurses, TCOs, PMs, you know, youname it, I'll talk till I'm you
know, till I'm asleep, really.
And and until when I go homesometimes, my wife says, Dad,
(20:42):
can you just stop talking quiteas much?
You know, it's getting a bitannoying, you know.
Let me get a word in edgeways.
Um, and I know when we get on acall, Jays, we talk for hours.
Um, but in these shows, I talkto everyone and I go around and
I have a look at the productsand services that are on offer,
and I've particularly noticed anincrease in uh AI-based
products.
But not only that, but alsoinnovations in healthcare.
(21:03):
One of the most exciting thingsI think I've come across is uh
from a company called Vivardis,uh, and it's a product called
Curidon.
And on the surface, it doesn'tlook that exciting.
What it is, is a peptide, whichis um a molecule that can
remineralize carrier's lesions.
And what they can what it cando is it can get rid of the need
(21:26):
to fill that cavity, basically,as long as you spot the caries
early enough, and you know,there's certain uses, but in a
lot of situations, this productis revolutionizing dental care.
And so, what you can do is youcan identify caries.
Now, there's another productcalled Pearl Dental AI.
I don't know if you've uh comeacross it at all, but Pearl is
an AI helping tool that uh looksat x-rays and identifies early
(21:51):
caries on x-rays, and then givesyou a coloured blob where the
caries is so that you can showthe patient.
Now, think of it in terms of apatient from a patient point of
view.
You come into a practice, youuh, you know, have x-rays taken,
and in an old-fashioned sense,we'd kind of look at these
little x-rays and we think,right, okay, well, is it caries?
(22:11):
Isn't it caries?
Not really sure.
Maybe I'll, you know, maybeit's a filling, maybe I'll drill
to see if it needs a filling,and then I'll put an amalgam or
or a composite in there, youknow, whatever material I want
to use.
And then maybe 10 years later,we'll replace the filling with a
bigger filling, and then 10years after that, maybe it'll
become a crown, and that used tobe the way to do things.
Now, what you can do is you canidentify it with a digital
(22:32):
x-ray.
You can then use Pearl DentalAI to, you know, communicate
that to the patient exactly whatthe issue is, because as they
say, a picture paints a thousandwords, you know, it doesn't
really need much explanation.
And then you can say, well, wewould have used to fill that,
and that would have cost you£100 or you know how much it is.
We can do it uh in a reallymodern way where we can
(22:53):
remineralize and stop that decayand turn back the clock on this
decay and keep it stable intothe future for a very quick
procedure that doesn't involvedrilling, doesn't involve
anesthetic or injections,doesn't involve an hour in the
chair, and you can go off happyat the end of the visit.
Now, think about it, that'schanged the face of modern
dentistry and healthcare.
(23:13):
It's an amazing idea that thereare things still happening now
that are changing dentistrywithout even looking at robotic
dentists and you know AIsolutions.
And and that to me, changingthat workflow entirely and
having a different option,opening up the options for
patients with technology, withbiotech as well, is just an
(23:34):
amazing achievement.
So I I was quite impressed withum uh Vivardis Curidon and uh
Pearl Dental AI.
To me, that was a really uhyou.
A good use of clever science.
Dr James (23:47):
I actually have met that chap as well.
Um interestingly, and Iremember I said to him, I was
like, Oh, it's a preventativemeasure, right?
And he was like, No, James,it's actually a treatment.
Yes, that's correct.
Prevention, obviously, preventsthe point the disease
(24:10):
developing, right?
But what prevention, what apreventative method suggests is
that when disease has actuallyarisen, you can't use a
prevention because it's alreadyhappened, right?
Correct.
And he's like, No, James, thisis specifically a treatment.
Dr Dan (24:28):
Uh this is a treatment instead of a filling, yeah.
Dr James (24:31):
I'm really glad that you called me out on that,
right?
Because I uh my my conventionaldental brand just assumed that
you needed to do a fill-inwhenever carries uh uh arises.
Uh with the case.
Yeah, we see tell me this.
Dr Dan (24:44):
Does that only work whenever it's like early
incipient carries or so I I'mnot gonna go into the whole
clinical thing on the on this uhpodcast and you know the exact
science behind it because it'sabsolutely fascinating and it's
a very long story, and Iwouldn't like to leave the
information incomplete, butthere are certain clinical
circumstances that you would useit and certain that you
weren't.
(25:05):
I'd just like to pick upsomething you said, um, which
was about the prevention idea.
If you look at the alternativeand you said, right, on my
X-rays, I've got early caries onmy bite wings, what are my
options?
Well, it's either to take adrill or and to fill it, you
know, and and if it's early,that's a shame because then it's
destructive, it's notconservative enough.
So what you would do is, youknow, uh floss in uh you know
(25:25):
high fluoride toothpaste, durafat or whatever, and uh, you
know, do those kind ofpreventative methods to stop
that lesion progressing.
But this is a very differentthing, it's actually a curative,
it's a restorative option.
So you're absolutely right topoint out that difference.
Dr James (25:41):
Yeah, I'm I'm glad that guy pointed it out to me.
But yeah, on other developmentsum that I've seen, I saw really
cool one the other day, and itis basically a plug-in for it's
a third-party plug-in fordentally, it's AI driven.
What happens is if your AI isnow at this level, okay, that if
(26:04):
you're a receptionist, there'sdifferent packages you can go
for, but what it is in essenceis an AI method to answer the
phones in your practice, right?
And I would have been like,hmm, but is it gonna be like a
voicemail machine?
Is it gonna be any good?
The guide demoed it in front ofme, and it's literally like
speaking to a human.
It's a little weird, to behonest with you, you know, that
it's at that level, that it cando that.
(26:25):
Um, but it's a leveraged way ofanswering the phone, right?
Because previously, if you hadone receptionist and you had 50
calls coming in, you could onlywork through the them at that
rate that the receptionistcould.
Whereas this phone system cananswer 50 calls simultaneously,
it can remove appointments fromyour schedule, it can add
(26:46):
appointments to your schedule,it can change the length.
If there's anything that comesup that is a bit of an unusual
request, it will basically letyou know on the software that
they have and get you to ringthem back whenever the time is
right.
If it goes down the route thatthe patient needs some medical
advice, it'll tell them to ringthe hospital.
So it's not given, it's not AIgiving medical advice over the
(27:08):
phone.
Um it is incredible, you know.
And basically you can either itcan either run in your practice
overnight when the receptionistisn't there, when they aren't
there, or you can the the nexttier is you can have it running
during the day where itbasically handles all of your
calls, okay?
And if the patient, forwhatever reason, wants to speak
(27:29):
to a human as well, they canjust they that's built into the
system too.
Dr Dan (27:33):
Um I think I think I counted at the recent exhibition
there were uh was it a coupleof hundred, two, three hundred
exhibitors there, you know, itwas a big exhibition, and um I
think I counted about five AIsolutions that did that kind of
thing.
Some of them did something everso slightly different, or the
other, but they were they werekind of under the broad category
(27:54):
robo reception, is what theycall it.
And then some of them would uh,you know, uh you could plug in,
you know, a lead generation.
So you I mean it was crazy howfar some of these things go, is
that they can actually put metaads out there to attract
patients for you, and then bringthem in, give them the phone
call, track the uh patientjourney across a management
(28:17):
system of whatever kind,interface with your dental
software, do appointmentbooking, do sales.
You know, say we've got youknow, phone someone and say,
listen, we've got this specialum, you know, thing with
whitening, it's only 300 pounds,you know.
Come and uh, you know, wouldyou like to book an appointment?
Uh, you know, it's incrediblewhat they can do.
And and then they can analyzeyour appointment summaries from
(28:40):
your dental software, and thenthey can give you pointers as
to, you know, red, uh, orange,and green, which people to
phone, how to book people in.
There's an amazing amount of AIand loosely cool, and I don't
know if it's the right term ornot, robo reception.
Now, one of the things that uhwas interesting with those kind
of products is thatreceptionists are a bit worried,
(29:01):
they're scared that they'regonna lose their jobs.
And I think this is across theboard with AI, people are quite
fearful about what happens tothe workforce.
Dentists, even though there'sdental robots starting in in
China but not commerciallyavailable, I think we're a long
way off from people trustingrobots to do the procedures just
yet, especially when people areconscious.
(29:22):
If you're unconscious in aheart operation, perhaps that's
a bit easier.
But with conscious patients indentistry, I don't think we're
going to see it anytime soon.
Um, with uh robo reception,perhaps a bit of a threat to
receptionist jobs and changingthe face of it, it actually
frees up a lot of time for thereceptionist to do the personal
(29:43):
interaction and interface withpatients.
And that enhances the patientjourney within your practice.
So, you know, it will enhancethe reputation your practice has
with your patients and thelevel of emotional connection
they feel with you, so they buyinto your practice a lot more.
So it's actually probably apositive to free up the
receptionist time.
As far as nurses go as well, itdoesn't seem that AI and
(30:06):
digital solutions have really,you know, threatened uh their
jobs at all.
Same with hygienists, uh, samewith uh, you know, practice
managers and also um you knowTCOs, um you know, treatment
coordinators, because having ahuman doing those jobs means
that people like it, they wantto have a chat with a human.
Dr James (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
And uh that's an importantthing to mention because the the
the guys did highlight that tome as well.
They were like, this enablesthe receptionist to be stuck on
the phone less and takes thepressure off them in its present
form, so actually it's a winfor everybody.
But yeah, certainly somethingto chew on.
And you know, it's interestingto talk about tech advancements
and dentistry and where thingsare going.
(30:48):
And I'm very conscious wewanted to keep this podcast to
about the 40-45-minute mark, andwe're just coming up to that
now.
Dan, one thing I did want toask you about, but maybe we'll
have to save you, save thispodcast, save this uh
conversation for a subsequentpodcast or a further podcast, is
your journey as a practiceowner and the lessons that
(31:10):
you've learned uh over the yearsbecause I know you've had a
practice for how long?
Dr Dan (31:15):
So I started off uh when I was uh a young dentist with a
domiciliary practice, was thefirst thing that I explored.
So I love doing domiciliarycare around nursing homes and
residential facilities, peoplein their own houses.
So I did that for about fiveyears whilst I was working in
the community dental servicesand teaching, and then um a
bricks and mortar kind ofpractice.
I walked into a laboratory oneday with a clinical dental
(31:38):
technician working there, andand uh that was probably uh
about 2006, about 20 years agonow.
And I started off in a practicethinking, you know, I like the
look of this.
How about I do some dentistryhere?
And he was a clinical dentaltechnician, so he did the
dentures, I did the dentistry.
I started off with a laptop andtwo patients and built it on
(32:01):
the back of the uh, you know,the denture patients that were
there.
I would do the extractions,he'd do the dentures, I'd do the
fillings and crowns, he'd do,you know, the dentures, etc.
And um, so that was about 20years and it organically grew
into a digital restorativepractice.
And uh nowadays I've got uh twoassociates, I've got a most
fantastic team who uh look afterme.
(32:23):
Um I I think another turningpoint for me was a nurse turned
around to me one day and said,Dan, why are you touching the
computer to book appointmentsfor patients?
Why are you turning around inyour chair?
You're you're discussing thingswith patients, you're not good
at that job.
When you book appointments, youdouble book them, or you don't
book enough time, or you're notaware of what's going on in the
other surgery, or you know, thescanner's gonna be used by
(32:45):
someone else and you can't bookin a scanning appointment then.
And so I said, okay, well, I'mgonna leave alone the
appointment booking.
I'm gonna what I'm gonna do isI'm gonna look at each team
member's strengths, and I'mgonna utilize that team member
to their strengths.
And I think that's when itreally changed, and dentistry
and practice ownership became alot easier, is when I realized
what I was good at I would do,and what I wasn't that good at,
(33:07):
I would allocate to the personwho was best at that job.
And that happened quite a long,long time ago for me now.
But that's really a turningpoint in uh the practice
ownership and my practicejourney because when you've got
an organically growing practiceover a long time period, you
don't really have a plan and anaim in mind.
And I think a lot of uh peoplethat set up a squatch, you know,
(33:30):
uh, you know, a fresh practicefrom nothing, um, they find this
as well, is that you you needto stay focused on your aims and
objectives and directionbecause you're never quite sure
where the end of your practiceowning journey is going to come.
Um, you know, so you know, I'mI'm very happy working as a
dentist.
I love dentistry.
I wake up excited nearly everyday to be uh, you know, doing
(33:52):
dentistry and talking aboutdentistry and interacting with
people in dentistry.
But you need to have quiteearly on some kind of aim aim
and objective for, and somepeople call it an exit strategy.
I don't know if that's anacceptable term or not, James,
but it's kind of sometimessometimes it's uh transitional
phase as well.
(34:13):
So it's not necessarily an exitbecause I think when the, you
know, I'm in the autumn years ofmy career now, I'm I've just
hit 50, I've got loads of yearsleft, I'm not dead yet, and I'm
not even retiring yet.
Uh, you know, but let's sayI've got 10 years or 15 years to
still be a dentist until I geta little bit old and tired.
I don't really want to give itup completely.
(34:35):
And when I come to hand overthe reins of my own practice to
a new owner, I won't just walkaway and leave dentistry.
It's not going to be a hardstop, a hard exit.
I'm still going to want to makestuff.
I'm still going to want tointeract with patients.
I'm still going to be wantingto be involved with organizing,
you know, practice stuff andtalking about the medico-legal
(34:57):
aspects maybe, or you know,whatever other branch of or the
tech, whatever other branch ofmy career I want to follow.
It doesn't just stop dead.
That entrepreneurial kind ofwish and need and want doesn't
just die.
It's you know something that'sgoing to continue.
So we've got to try and thinkhow that's going to play out
(35:19):
over the next 10 and 15, maybe20 years.
Dr James (35:22):
Well, I think this is something that bugs me a little
bit about the concept ofretirement that we're told that
there's this finish line andthat we're supposed to look
forward to it and work our wholelife towards it and just be
happy.
And the two big flaws of thatis number one, you might never
get there because literally noone knows how long we're going
to live.
So there needs to be somebalance with focusing on the
future, it needs to be balancedwith enjoying the present to a
(35:45):
degree.
Obviously, if you take that toan extreme, it's just complete
hedonism.
That's not good either.
Um, so you've got to thinkabout that.
So that's definitely myphilosophy.
And then the other side ofthings is it's like, okay, cool.
Yeah, yeah, we may not getthere.
And two, when we do get there,I would challenge the fact that
a lot of people just want to sitaround and not do anything all
day long.
I'd really like to I've beenthere, I've been there where
(36:09):
I've been waiting for things fora month, and I learned I feel
lucky because I learned thatlesson in my early 30s, right?
Rather than waiting until I was50 and kidding myself that I
was going to get there.
Because there's been timeswhere I'm like, my best course
of action in business right nowis in action where I just have
to wait.
But I was like, this is killingme, like this is literally
(36:30):
killing me.
So I stopped looking forward tothat moment and gave myself
permission, important word, anoperative word, permission to
enjoy the here and I a lot more,plus also do cool things for
the future as well.
Have fun, is what I'm saying.
But yeah, anyway, Dan, I meanone thing just that to worth
mentioning as we wrap thispodcast up is that you and I got
(36:51):
to know each other for variousthings over the years, and one
of those things is the Businessof Dentistry Conference, in
which we share a lot of thestuff that we're talking about
today in way more detail, andalso there'll be a huge
opportunity to network with alot of the more avant-garde
service providers to dentistryuh that are coming out over the
next few years.
It's literally called thebusiness of dentistry, it's
(37:11):
exactly what it says in the tin,it's where people come to level
themselves up, both mentallyand a mindset point of view, but
also their businesses andfinances as well.
So I'd be stunned if anybody inthat room didn't come away with
something that enables them todo that on that day and really
in the right circumstances inthe right set, and you can make
way more progress in one daythan you might otherwise have
been able to make in a year ortwo.
And that's definitely the themeof the day.
Dr Dan (37:33):
That's yeah, and that's not that's not to underestimate
the community that's grown uparound the conference of the
business of dentistry.
I mean, it seems to be thatit's a whole organization and a
movement that's gained momentumon its own, uh, you know, the
website, learning platform, youknow, all kinds of other stuff
going on.
Um, but you're absolutelyright.
I mean, the focus of the day,I'm really looking forward to uh
(37:55):
the conference of the businessof dentistry because it gives me
a chance to uh talk to so manypeople.
And you know, hopefully my wifewon't tell me that I talk too
much when I get home becauseI'll be able to talk to a load
of people when I'm there in theday.
And a lot of the time it'sabout the networking aspect.
And and I love, and I know youlove uh networking as well, just
you know, talking to lots andlots of different people, you
(38:16):
know, absorbing ideas,exchanging ideas, and and you
know, that's really it's uh it'sa hotbed for that kind of
thing.
Um so valuable, so valuable.
Dr James (38:26):
So that's on the 9th of May, that's in Birmingham at
the East Side Rooms uh inBirmingham.
And yeah, run it's a day eventconference we were talking about
just a second ago.
And interestingly, we're gonnabe not we're gonna be announcing
a competition on tickets onthat next week.
So keep your eyes peeled to theDennis who invest audience for
that one, where we're gonna begiving away four free tickets,
(38:49):
which is flipping awesome.
Looking forward to that.
Hope everybody has anabsolutely amazing day.
Whenever you listen to thispodcast, whenever it hits the
airwaves, we're currentlyshooting on a Friday.
So if you hear it on a Friday,have a great weekend.
If you don't hear it on aFriday, have a flipping smashing
week ahead.
But whatever happens to you,I'm looking forward to the next
episode already.
Dan, we need to do a follow up,we need to book it in, we need
(39:09):
to make it happen.
So let's make that one officialvery soon.
In the meantime, much love,peace out, and see you all soon.
As ever, you can claim your CPD for this episode
within the official Dentists whoinvest Smart Money Members
Club.
Smart Money Members Club alsoincludes multiple mini courses
and webinar series on financefor dentists, including how to
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All of this content counts asverifiable CPD, and you can
download your certificates thereand then upon completion of
(02:05):
each lesson.
In addition to this, we alsoinclude a whopping 10% discount
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Please use the link in thedescription to claim your
verifiable CPD for this episode.
Well, this is an episode.
(02:27):
Dan, so it's good to have youalong because I know that you
and I spend a lot of timetalking on the phone about this
among other things, and it'seasy to get a bit romantic about
it, I guess, really, becauseyeah, it's it's just really cool
(02:48):
and it's enlightening and it'sreally powerful as well.
And that's very much the themeof this podcast.
It's reflections on thejourney, I guess, and where it's
both got us to.
But Dan, I'm just veryconscious that this is the first
time I believe that you've beenon the Dentist Invest podcast.
So maybe it might be nice justto do a quick intro and a quick
hello for the benefit of theaudience.
Dr Dan (03:08):
Sure.
So talking about experience, Imean, I I feel like I've
traveled the length and breadthof dentistry, if you like, over
the past 30 years of uh mydental career in a way that I've
worked in the community dentalservices, NHS, private,
academia.
You know, I've been involved inuh presentations and the
business side of dentistry aswell as the clinical side of
(03:30):
dentistry.
And um, yeah, I'm quitecontemplative at the moment, uh,
this year especially.
Uh I'm 50 years old now, soI've hit 50.
Uh sorry I didn't invite you tomy uh party, James.
Uh, you know, but maybe my51st.
Dr James (03:45):
Still in the post.
Still in the post.
Dr Dan (03:46):
Yeah, still in the post.
The invitation got lost.
Um and uh, you know, reaching50 makes you contemplate the
past 30 years of career andwhat's gone well, what's gone
badly, um, how you've dealt withthings and how you feel about
not only the past but also thefuture, which uh, you know,
perhaps we'll get to a littlebit later on.
But as far as the past go,yeah, I'm very reflective about
(04:10):
uh my career, certainly.
Dr James (04:12):
And I think it's fair to say you've learned a few
things over the years, becauseone thing that really I found
interesting about yourself, Dan,was that you used to be a
technician before you were adentist, right?
Dr Dan (04:22):
Oh, so that's not strictly true.
So I am I do have a dualqualification, so I have a BDS
for dentistry and an RDT for uhbeing a technician.
But it's really funny because Iwas teaching down in Guy's
Hospital for six years as aclinical tutor.
I was teaching fourth and fifthyear dental students how to
make dentures removableprosthetics on floor 21 of Guy's
(04:43):
Tower, for those of you thatknow it, which is a fantastic
place uh to work and uh tointeract with the most
incredibly intelligent uh dentalstudents, far more intelligent
than I am, and the kind ofquestions they come up with.
I think you learn more fromyour students than uh you know
you learn from the books,certainly.
Um but it was reallyinteresting because I was
(05:03):
involved on the lab side ofdentistry.
So whilst I was teaching atGuise, I um started to apply
some lab work to Guise, um,thinking that it would be a
straightforward uh business ideato do that.
Uh I was also working in alaboratory in Hertfordshire as
well at the time.
So I was part-time teaching andpart-time in the lab.
(05:24):
And this was a time when thetechnician's register was still
open.
And what that meant was thatbecause I was spending so much
time in the laboratory andbecause uh I'd increased my
knowledge of the technical sizequite considerably, I was
grandfathered onto the register.
And what that meant was that umI became a technician uh by
(05:44):
default, and uh I found itreally interesting meeting lots
of other techs.
Techs are a separate side ofthe industry that dentists don't
really understand properly, Ifeel.
And techs feel that.
Um tax, you mean lab techs?
Techs, technicians, yeah, labtechs.
Dr James (06:04):
Never heard them refer to as tax, just wanted to
confirm that.
But yeah, okay.
Dr Dan (06:07):
Yeah, so techs, lab techs, uh technicians.
They sit behind their desks allday long making stuff and you
know, sending it out to thedentist.
The dentist receives it in apackage and they open it and
they say, right, well, that'sgreat, let's fit it.
And they don't thinknecessarily about all the work
that goes on behind it.
Lab technicians uh find itquite difficult a lot of the
(06:29):
time to communicate well withdentists, and and that can be a
little bit um disheartening fortechnicians, I think, is that
there's a break.
Now, for myself, I starteddoing a lot of digital
dentistry, and of course,delivering the clinical
dentistry and being thetechnician as well doesn't leave
you anywhere to hide.
You know, you can't turn aroundas the dentist and blame the
(06:50):
technician and say, right, well,this crown doesn't fit, must be
your fault.
And the technician turns aroundand says, Well, you didn't take
a very good impression or scan,and it's your fault.
When you're both, there'snowhere to hide, and that really
enhanced the um the continuitythrough the case and the
workflow for me, because it itgave me the opportunity to
(07:11):
examine every stage of theprocess and it improved my
dentistry, no end.
Not only that, but also thedigital integration of having a
scanner and seeing your preps upon screen.
Um, you might gather I lovedoing crowns, I love doing
bridge work, I love restorativedentistry, and so examining
really up close and zooming inon you know, up to a few microns
(07:32):
uh, you know, of accuracy,really enhanced dentistry, and
doing it the way that I did it.
And I felt that that was a realmilestone.
If you, you know, we weretalking about contemplating uh
careers at the beginning, andreally there's certain
milestones in your career as adentist, um, uh and also, you
know, as a lab technician andalso you know, as a dental
(07:54):
professional professionalcomplimentary to dentistry, but
digital integration wascertainly one of those moments
for me which changed dentistryfor me forever.
Dr James (08:03):
I bet your preps are pretty good.
Dr Dan (08:06):
Well, they've got better.
And and then it's dishearteningas well.
Dr James (08:09):
You don't have to be humble here.
You don't have to be humblehere.
If you're prep if your prepsare good, your preps are good,
it's fine.
You're you're allowed to sayit.
Dr Dan (08:15):
Listen, okay, I won't put you on the spotlight, but uh
when you No, I mean, true,truth be known, James, it's a re
it's a really good point.
I mean, my preps aren'tperfect, and and in fact, if you
talk about um, you know,contemplating and reflecting on
30 years in dentistry, uhthere's only a handful of times,
maybe twice or three times inmy career of 30 years where I've
(08:37):
been happy with the dentistrythat I've done.
That I've found that it's whatI would say approaching perfect,
which is a really weird ideabecause it means that every
single other of those 5,000crowns or 10,000, I don't know
how many crowns I've made, youknow, they're not perfect,
they're not exactly what I wouldwant them to be.
The fitting of the veneers, youknow, there's just a touch out
(08:59):
there, or I would have loved tobring the angle in slightly, or
the colours ever so slightly,you know.
And and what that means is thatyou gather this um sentiment
towards yourself when you're adentist, which is quite a common
idea in dentistry, that younever quite reach that level of
perfection and you're alwaysseeking it.
(09:19):
It's weird.
Dr James (09:21):
I I find that about dentistry as well.
In fact, that was one of thethings that frustrated me
slightly about it was it's justso hard to do it perfectly, and
what is perfect, your version ofperfect, is not necessarily
somebody else's version ofperfect as well.
In dentistry, I once hearddentistry described as an art
(09:41):
loosely bound by the rules ofscience, and I thought that was
really cool.
That actually made me rethinkdentistry.
I was like, okay, my goal is toless be scientific about it,
although obviously thoseparameters guide my judgment,
but more to express myself andalso craft and mold what the
(10:02):
textbook would say to thedesires of the patient and the
individual in front of me.
And I I always remember one aclinician once they were like,
Um, Jim, you know, I can't, youknow, I remember I was like
fresh out of uni, not to go on atangent, but I'm sharing this
stuff because it's valuable,right?
Uh, I remember when I came outof uni, and like uni wants you
to think in protocols, right?
Like, do this, then you dothis.
(10:24):
Then if the BPE is three, youdo this, or you do this, right?
Or the BPE is four, whatever,right?
There's like that uh the theperiod guidance that's out
there, right?
That guides people on thosesorts of things.
And that's just an example, butthere's loads of protocols, and
uni wants you to think it'swants you to think a lot more
along those lines, not 100%, buta lot more along those lines,
and then in the real world, it'sjust not like that.
(10:44):
And I always remember I hadthis clinician, this mentor, and
he said to me, he was like,James, you're letting you, you
know, and the people who arelistening to this podcast can't
see what I'm doing, but he hepointed to his head and he's
like, You're letting this governyour dentistry, whereas in
reality it does come from here,but it also comes from here.
And he pointed to his chest asin referring to his heart, and I
that made me rethink.
I was like, Oh, that'ssometimes why, even though I'm
(11:07):
following the protocol, thepatient doesn't feel heard or uh
things are not going quiteright.
It's because I'm not tailoringit to the person who's in front
of me.
And when you start thinkinglike that a lot more, I find it
very empowering for yourdentistry.
So maybe you find that as well.
Dr Dan (11:25):
Yeah, so that's subjective thought instead of
being completely objective.
That is what being a dentist isall about.
You know, you can follow adiagnostic pathway where you're
trying to put things together ina base, uh, in a what quite a
wide base, and narrowing andhome into a diagnosis, and then
offer the treatments that aregoing to solve that problem or
you know, fill the hole, or oryou know, fill the gap, or you
(11:46):
know, whatever it is you'retrying to achieve.
But at the end of the day,there's a lot of emotional uh
factors as well that are alittle bit more etheral and need
to be involved.
And so you're absolutely right.
It's not just a science, youcan't be binary about it, it's
either right or wrong.
There's no absolutenecessarily.
There's anecdotal evidence uhto bring into play, there's
peer-reviewed evidence as well,and then that helps, but you've
(12:08):
still got to use your brain as adentist.
And this is, I think, uh, youknow, it's a really interesting
time at the moment with AI andyou know artificial intelligence
coming into decision making andand uh healthcare in general,
but particularly in dentistry,we're thinking about the impact
it's gonna have over many yearsinto the future, not only on
workforces, but on workflows andthe way that we do things.
(12:29):
Now, how is it that we're goingto uh give over that subjective
kind of thinking to AI in in alot of ways to help us?
And we're going to get rid ofthat from our head, and we're
just going to let AI do that forus.
And I'll give you an example.
What about autonomous cars?
I mean, you know, we've got toprogram them with a morality
(12:53):
idea that, you know, let's say,for instance, the car's driving
along and it ends up with achoice of either uh knocking
over a single person uh who isrelatively young, you know,
let's say a child, uh, or itplows into a crowd of adults.
You know, how does theautonomous car come to a
decision which situation is thepreferable one?
(13:15):
And you know, it is it's a veryweird thing.
And then we've got to thinkbehind that.
Where's the responsibility withthat decision?
Is it with the car itself?
Is it with the driver?
Is it with the softwareprogrammer?
Is it with the people who ownthe AI?
And so these kind of decisionsand subjective thinking are
going to come into dentistry.
(13:35):
No doubt we're going to usethese aids, and we've got to
think about the kind of impactthat will have.
And I'm privileged in a way tohave been around before AI has
come because I think it's goingto complicate things.
I don't think it's necessarilygoing to make things easier all
the time.
I think it's going to bring anextra layer of complication.
Dr James (13:52):
You know, something really interesting in what
you're saying, and I don't wantto go on too much of a tangent
on this podcast, but I do wantto quickly drop this in.
I once read something in abook, and the book was called
Seeking Wisdom from CharlesDarwin to Charlie Munker.
Okay.
And it the book's not reallyabout anything in particular,
it's just about it's dividedinto chapters, or no, it's
(14:14):
divided into subjects, rather,because there's no continuity,
there's no timeline per se.
And it's like, here's somewisdom on money, here's some
wisdom on science, here's somewisdom on romance, like all
sorts of things.
A bit like The Almanac by NavalRavacant, and there was this
one thing in it, and it was likeum people try to, it was
(14:35):
something along the lines of theguy put it way more eloquently
than I'm about to put it, right?
But he was like, people thinkthat logic and emotional
thinking are actually twoseparate things, but actually
logic is governed by emotion,and here's why.
Because if you think about it,if you get out of bed, right,
and the logical you think toyourself, I want to be healthy,
but the logical choice is to goto the gym, right?
(14:57):
That's still an emotionaldecision because you're going
there because you want to feelgood and live long.
So it actually comes from youremotions in a roundabout way.
Even if you want to do reallywell on the math test, the most
logical thing of all time, youwant to do well because
emotionally it makes you feelgood in your life and it
enhances your job prospects,right?
So, really, really, reallyweirdly, if you actually go one
layer deeper on the logic ofhumans, uh, it actually is
(15:20):
always grounded in emotion.
And I just find that reallycool because I used to think
they were the separate, like twoseparate things.
Uh, but he was he was like,That was that's why your version
of logic will inherently neverbe the same as the next
person's, right?
It's actually not possible, youknow.
And um, it comes back to thecar thing as well.
That's logic, but it's actuallygrounded in the emotion of
(15:41):
humans, right?
Because it's reasoning toitself what is the lesser of two
evils in this situation?
Ideally, it doesn't have tomake that choice, but if it does
in a split second, what does itdo?
Right, but it's still based onminimizing the net negative
emotional impact of its actionson humans, its logic is still an
emotional outcome.
Anyway, not to go on a tangent,I just find that really cool
(16:03):
and relevant to what you weresaying.
Seeking wisdom from Charlie DarCharles Darwin to Charles
Munger, very good book.
Anyway, um, but yeah, just tobring this conversation back to
dentistry, AI and Dentistry, youand I go to a lot of dental
shows.
Uh, and we've certainly we dowe've ramped that up in 2026
because yeah, I mean, I get withthe I guess your conventional
(16:27):
conferences uh that are notconferences, expos really.
The the conventional ones aretrade exhibitions, yeah.
Trade exhibition is probablythe best term, right?
For the way that that'sconventionally done, is in
you've got a big old room fullof tradespeople.
Uh let's just say the footfallisn't where it used to be
conventionally.
Will that improve?
Will it diminish?
Who knows?
But that's just kind of thetrend that we've observed over
(16:49):
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of this podcast.
Dr Dan (18:42):
Yeah, I would I I'm actually sorry to interrupt you.
I'm quite surprised that thefootfall has uh seemed to
diminish at shows because Ithought that people would crave
after the pandemic and COVID andyou know everything that went
down.
And and I know we're still notquite in a place to process all
of that, even now.
You know, it's still going tobe a number of years before we
can reflect on that time in ourlives and how it affected us and
(19:05):
the world and you know,everything to do with the
dentistry, of course, becauseit's still quite, you know,
we're still quite emotionalabout it.
Um, but you would have expectedthe footfall to increase as
people crave that personalinteraction, but yet the bigger
trade shows they seem to haveseen, and this is what people
are reporting to uh to mecertainly when we discuss it, is
(19:27):
that they don't seem to have asmany people there, and they
don't seem to have as manypeople who are going to want to
interact with the trade from adentist's point of view or or a
decision maker's point of viewwithin practices, and that's an
interesting trend.
Dr James (19:44):
Yeah, who knows?
Some sort of uh what what's theword I'm looking for?
Sociology study to uh waitingto happen there.
But I I get what you're saying.
Hey, logic based on emotion,again, there we go.
Yeah, logically it would dothis, but yeah, emotionally for
some reason it's not happening.
But anyway, where I was goingwith that is um, you know, I
have some thoughts on some ofthe there is still some very
(20:05):
avant-garde stuff at thoseshows, right?
And I have some thoughts onsome of the coolest stuff that
I've seen, particularly at themost recent one that you and I
went to.
Well, what I want to know isfor the benefit of the audience,
what cool stuff have you seenat the shows that you think is
going to shake up dentistry?
Dr Dan (20:19):
Do you know?
I love I I'm not uh part of thedecrease football, I'm part of
the increase in football becauseI absolutely love shows.
I love uh, you know, talking toreps, I love talking to
companies, I love talking todentists, I love talking to
nurses, TCOs, PMs, you know, youname it, I'll talk till I'm you
know, till I'm asleep, really.
And and until when I go homesometimes, my wife says, Dad,
(20:42):
can you just stop talking quiteas much?
You know, it's getting a bitannoying, you know.
Let me get a word in edgeways.
Um, and I know when we get on acall, Jays, we talk for hours.
Um, but in these shows, I talkto everyone and I go around and
I have a look at the productsand services that are on offer,
and I've particularly noticed anincrease in uh AI-based
products.
But not only that, but alsoinnovations in healthcare.
(21:03):
One of the most exciting thingsI think I've come across is uh
from a company called Vivardis,uh, and it's a product called
Curidon.
And on the surface, it doesn'tlook that exciting.
What it is, is a peptide, whichis um a molecule that can
remineralize carrier's lesions.
And what they can what it cando is it can get rid of the need
(21:26):
to fill that cavity, basically,as long as you spot the caries
early enough, and you know,there's certain uses, but in a
lot of situations, this productis revolutionizing dental care.
And so, what you can do is youcan identify caries.
Now, there's another productcalled Pearl Dental AI.
I don't know if you've uh comeacross it at all, but Pearl is
an AI helping tool that uh looksat x-rays and identifies early
(21:51):
caries on x-rays, and then givesyou a coloured blob where the
caries is so that you can showthe patient.
Now, think of it in terms of apatient from a patient point of
view.
You come into a practice, youuh, you know, have x-rays taken,
and in an old-fashioned sense,we'd kind of look at these
little x-rays and we think,right, okay, well, is it caries?
(22:11):
Isn't it caries?
Not really sure.
Maybe I'll, you know, maybeit's a filling, maybe I'll drill
to see if it needs a filling,and then I'll put an amalgam or
or a composite in there, youknow, whatever material I want
to use.
And then maybe 10 years later,we'll replace the filling with a
bigger filling, and then 10years after that, maybe it'll
become a crown, and that used tobe the way to do things.
Now, what you can do is you canidentify it with a digital
(22:32):
x-ray.
You can then use Pearl DentalAI to, you know, communicate
that to the patient exactly whatthe issue is, because as they
say, a picture paints a thousandwords, you know, it doesn't
really need much explanation.
And then you can say, well, wewould have used to fill that,
and that would have cost you£100 or you know how much it is.
We can do it uh in a reallymodern way where we can
(22:53):
remineralize and stop that decayand turn back the clock on this
decay and keep it stable intothe future for a very quick
procedure that doesn't involvedrilling, doesn't involve
anesthetic or injections,doesn't involve an hour in the
chair, and you can go off happyat the end of the visit.
Now, think about it, that'schanged the face of modern
dentistry and healthcare.
(23:13):
It's an amazing idea that thereare things still happening now
that are changing dentistrywithout even looking at robotic
dentists and you know AIsolutions.
And and that to me, changingthat workflow entirely and
having a different option,opening up the options for
patients with technology, withbiotech as well, is just an
(23:34):
amazing achievement.
So I I was quite impressed withum uh Vivardis Curidon and uh
Pearl Dental AI.
To me, that was a really uhyou.
A good use of clever science.
Dr James (23:47):
I actually have met that chap as well.
Um interestingly, and Iremember I said to him, I was
like, Oh, it's a preventativemeasure, right?
And he was like, No, James,it's actually a treatment.
Yes, that's correct.
Prevention, obviously, preventsthe point the disease
(24:10):
developing, right?
But what prevention, what apreventative method suggests is
that when disease has actuallyarisen, you can't use a
prevention because it's alreadyhappened, right?
Correct.
And he's like, No, James, thisis specifically a treatment.
Dr Dan (24:28):
Uh this is a treatment instead of a filling, yeah.
Dr James (24:31):
I'm really glad that you called me out on that,
right?
Because I uh my my conventionaldental brand just assumed that
you needed to do a fill-inwhenever carries uh uh arises.
Uh with the case.
Yeah, we see tell me this.
Dr Dan (24:44):
Does that only work whenever it's like early
incipient carries or so I I'mnot gonna go into the whole
clinical thing on the on this uhpodcast and you know the exact
science behind it because it'sabsolutely fascinating and it's
a very long story, and Iwouldn't like to leave the
information incomplete, butthere are certain clinical
circumstances that you would useit and certain that you
weren't.
(25:05):
I'd just like to pick upsomething you said, um, which
was about the prevention idea.
If you look at the alternativeand you said, right, on my
X-rays, I've got early caries onmy bite wings, what are my
options?
Well, it's either to take adrill or and to fill it, you
know, and and if it's early,that's a shame because then it's
destructive, it's notconservative enough.
So what you would do is, youknow, uh floss in uh you know
(25:25):
high fluoride toothpaste, durafat or whatever, and uh, you
know, do those kind ofpreventative methods to stop
that lesion progressing.
But this is a very differentthing, it's actually a curative,
it's a restorative option.
So you're absolutely right topoint out that difference.
Dr James (25:41):
Yeah, I'm I'm glad that guy pointed it out to me.
But yeah, on other developmentsum that I've seen, I saw really
cool one the other day, and itis basically a plug-in for it's
a third-party plug-in fordentally, it's AI driven.
What happens is if your AI isnow at this level, okay, that if
(26:04):
you're a receptionist, there'sdifferent packages you can go
for, but what it is in essenceis an AI method to answer the
phones in your practice, right?
And I would have been like,hmm, but is it gonna be like a
voicemail machine?
Is it gonna be any good?
The guide demoed it in front ofme, and it's literally like
speaking to a human.
It's a little weird, to behonest with you, you know, that
it's at that level, that it cando that.
(26:25):
Um, but it's a leveraged way ofanswering the phone, right?
Because previously, if you hadone receptionist and you had 50
calls coming in, you could onlywork through the them at that
rate that the receptionistcould.
Whereas this phone system cananswer 50 calls simultaneously,
it can remove appointments fromyour schedule, it can add
(26:46):
appointments to your schedule,it can change the length.
If there's anything that comesup that is a bit of an unusual
request, it will basically letyou know on the software that
they have and get you to ringthem back whenever the time is
right.
If it goes down the route thatthe patient needs some medical
advice, it'll tell them to ringthe hospital.
So it's not given, it's not AIgiving medical advice over the
(27:08):
phone.
Um it is incredible, you know.
And basically you can either itcan either run in your practice
overnight when the receptionistisn't there, when they aren't
there, or you can the the nexttier is you can have it running
during the day where itbasically handles all of your
calls, okay?
And if the patient, forwhatever reason, wants to speak
(27:29):
to a human as well, they canjust they that's built into the
system too.
Dr Dan (27:33):
Um I think I think I counted at the recent exhibition
there were uh was it a coupleof hundred, two, three hundred
exhibitors there, you know, itwas a big exhibition, and um I
think I counted about five AIsolutions that did that kind of
thing.
Some of them did something everso slightly different, or the
other, but they were they werekind of under the broad category
(27:54):
robo reception, is what theycall it.
And then some of them would uh,you know, uh you could plug in,
you know, a lead generation.
So you I mean it was crazy howfar some of these things go, is
that they can actually put metaads out there to attract
patients for you, and then bringthem in, give them the phone
call, track the uh patientjourney across a management
(28:17):
system of whatever kind,interface with your dental
software, do appointmentbooking, do sales.
You know, say we've got youknow, phone someone and say,
listen, we've got this specialum, you know, thing with
whitening, it's only 300 pounds,you know.
Come and uh, you know, wouldyou like to book an appointment?
Uh, you know, it's incrediblewhat they can do.
And and then they can analyzeyour appointment summaries from
(28:40):
your dental software, and thenthey can give you pointers as
to, you know, red, uh, orange,and green, which people to
phone, how to book people in.
There's an amazing amount of AIand loosely cool, and I don't
know if it's the right term ornot, robo reception.
Now, one of the things that uhwas interesting with those kind
of products is thatreceptionists are a bit worried,
(29:01):
they're scared that they'regonna lose their jobs.
And I think this is across theboard with AI, people are quite
fearful about what happens tothe workforce.
Dentists, even though there'sdental robots starting in in
China but not commerciallyavailable, I think we're a long
way off from people trustingrobots to do the procedures just
yet, especially when people areconscious.
(29:22):
If you're unconscious in aheart operation, perhaps that's
a bit easier.
But with conscious patients indentistry, I don't think we're
going to see it anytime soon.
Um, with uh robo reception,perhaps a bit of a threat to
receptionist jobs and changingthe face of it, it actually
frees up a lot of time for thereceptionist to do the personal
(29:43):
interaction and interface withpatients.
And that enhances the patientjourney within your practice.
So, you know, it will enhancethe reputation your practice has
with your patients and thelevel of emotional connection
they feel with you, so they buyinto your practice a lot more.
So it's actually probably apositive to free up the
receptionist time.
As far as nurses go as well, itdoesn't seem that AI and
(30:06):
digital solutions have really,you know, threatened uh their
jobs at all.
Same with hygienists, uh, samewith uh, you know, practice
managers and also um you knowTCOs, um you know, treatment
coordinators, because having ahuman doing those jobs means
that people like it, they wantto have a chat with a human.
Dr James (30:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
And uh that's an importantthing to mention because the the
the guys did highlight that tome as well.
They were like, this enablesthe receptionist to be stuck on
the phone less and takes thepressure off them in its present
form, so actually it's a winfor everybody.
But yeah, certainly somethingto chew on.
And you know, it's interestingto talk about tech advancements
and dentistry and where thingsare going.
(30:48):
And I'm very conscious wewanted to keep this podcast to
about the 40-45-minute mark, andwe're just coming up to that
now.
Dan, one thing I did want toask you about, but maybe we'll
have to save you, save thispodcast, save this uh
conversation for a subsequentpodcast or a further podcast, is
your journey as a practiceowner and the lessons that
(31:10):
you've learned uh over the yearsbecause I know you've had a
practice for how long?
Dr Dan (31:15):
So I started off uh when I was uh a young dentist with a
domiciliary practice, was thefirst thing that I explored.
So I love doing domiciliarycare around nursing homes and
residential facilities, peoplein their own houses.
So I did that for about fiveyears whilst I was working in
the community dental servicesand teaching, and then um a
bricks and mortar kind ofpractice.
I walked into a laboratory oneday with a clinical dental
(31:38):
technician working there, andand uh that was probably uh
about 2006, about 20 years agonow.
And I started off in a practicethinking, you know, I like the
look of this.
How about I do some dentistryhere?
And he was a clinical dentaltechnician, so he did the
dentures, I did the dentistry.
I started off with a laptop andtwo patients and built it on
(32:01):
the back of the uh, you know,the denture patients that were
there.
I would do the extractions,he'd do the dentures, I'd do the
fillings and crowns, he'd do,you know, the dentures, etc.
And um, so that was about 20years and it organically grew
into a digital restorativepractice.
And uh nowadays I've got uh twoassociates, I've got a most
fantastic team who uh look afterme.
(32:23):
Um I I think another turningpoint for me was a nurse turned
around to me one day and said,Dan, why are you touching the
computer to book appointmentsfor patients?
Why are you turning around inyour chair?
You're you're discussing thingswith patients, you're not good
at that job.
When you book appointments, youdouble book them, or you don't
book enough time, or you're notaware of what's going on in the
other surgery, or you know, thescanner's gonna be used by
(32:45):
someone else and you can't bookin a scanning appointment then.
And so I said, okay, well, I'mgonna leave alone the
appointment booking.
I'm gonna what I'm gonna do isI'm gonna look at each team
member's strengths, and I'mgonna utilize that team member
to their strengths.
And I think that's when itreally changed, and dentistry
and practice ownership became alot easier, is when I realized
what I was good at I would do,and what I wasn't that good at,
(33:07):
I would allocate to the personwho was best at that job.
And that happened quite a long,long time ago for me now.
But that's really a turningpoint in uh the practice
ownership and my practicejourney because when you've got
an organically growing practiceover a long time period, you
don't really have a plan and anaim in mind.
And I think a lot of uh peoplethat set up a squatch, you know,
(33:30):
uh, you know, a fresh practicefrom nothing, um, they find this
as well, is that you you needto stay focused on your aims and
objectives and directionbecause you're never quite sure
where the end of your practiceowning journey is going to come.
Um, you know, so you know, I'mI'm very happy working as a
dentist.
I love dentistry.
I wake up excited nearly everyday to be uh, you know, doing
(33:52):
dentistry and talking aboutdentistry and interacting with
people in dentistry.
But you need to have quiteearly on some kind of aim aim
and objective for, and somepeople call it an exit strategy.
I don't know if that's anacceptable term or not, James,
but it's kind of sometimessometimes it's uh transitional
phase as well.
(34:13):
So it's not necessarily an exitbecause I think when the, you
know, I'm in the autumn years ofmy career now, I'm I've just
hit 50, I've got loads of yearsleft, I'm not dead yet, and I'm
not even retiring yet.
Uh, you know, but let's sayI've got 10 years or 15 years to
still be a dentist until I geta little bit old and tired.
I don't really want to give itup completely.
(34:35):
And when I come to hand overthe reins of my own practice to
a new owner, I won't just walkaway and leave dentistry.
It's not going to be a hardstop, a hard exit.
I'm still going to want to makestuff.
I'm still going to want tointeract with patients.
I'm still going to be wantingto be involved with organizing,
you know, practice stuff andtalking about the medico-legal
(34:57):
aspects maybe, or you know,whatever other branch of or the
tech, whatever other branch ofmy career I want to follow.
It doesn't just stop dead.
That entrepreneurial kind ofwish and need and want doesn't
just die.
It's you know something that'sgoing to continue.
So we've got to try and thinkhow that's going to play out
(35:19):
over the next 10 and 15, maybe20 years.
Dr James (35:22):
Well, I think this is something that bugs me a little
bit about the concept ofretirement that we're told that
there's this finish line andthat we're supposed to look
forward to it and work our wholelife towards it and just be
happy.
And the two big flaws of thatis number one, you might never
get there because literally noone knows how long we're going
to live.
So there needs to be somebalance with focusing on the
future, it needs to be balancedwith enjoying the present to a
(35:45):
degree.
Obviously, if you take that toan extreme, it's just complete
hedonism.
That's not good either.
Um, so you've got to thinkabout that.
So that's definitely myphilosophy.
And then the other side ofthings is it's like, okay, cool.
Yeah, yeah, we may not getthere.
And two, when we do get there,I would challenge the fact that
a lot of people just want to sitaround and not do anything all
day long.
I'd really like to I've beenthere, I've been there where
(36:09):
I've been waiting for things fora month, and I learned I feel
lucky because I learned thatlesson in my early 30s, right?
Rather than waiting until I was50 and kidding myself that I
was going to get there.
Because there's been timeswhere I'm like, my best course
of action in business right nowis in action where I just have
to wait.
But I was like, this is killingme, like this is literally
(36:30):
killing me.
So I stopped looking forward tothat moment and gave myself
permission, important word, anoperative word, permission to
enjoy the here and I a lot more,plus also do cool things for
the future as well.
Have fun, is what I'm saying.
But yeah, anyway, Dan, I meanone thing just that to worth
mentioning as we wrap thispodcast up is that you and I got
(36:51):
to know each other for variousthings over the years, and one
of those things is the Businessof Dentistry Conference, in
which we share a lot of thestuff that we're talking about
today in way more detail, andalso there'll be a huge
opportunity to network with alot of the more avant-garde
service providers to dentistryuh that are coming out over the
next few years.
It's literally called thebusiness of dentistry, it's
(37:11):
exactly what it says in the tin,it's where people come to level
themselves up, both mentallyand a mindset point of view, but
also their businesses andfinances as well.
So I'd be stunned if anybody inthat room didn't come away with
something that enables them todo that on that day and really
in the right circumstances inthe right set, and you can make
way more progress in one daythan you might otherwise have
been able to make in a year ortwo.
And that's definitely the themeof the day.
Dr Dan (37:33):
That's yeah, and that's not that's not to underestimate
the community that's grown uparound the conference of the
business of dentistry.
I mean, it seems to be thatit's a whole organization and a
movement that's gained momentumon its own, uh, you know, the
website, learning platform, youknow, all kinds of other stuff
going on.
Um, but you're absolutelyright.
I mean, the focus of the day,I'm really looking forward to uh
(37:55):
the conference of the businessof dentistry because it gives me
a chance to uh talk to so manypeople.
And you know, hopefully my wifewon't tell me that I talk too
much when I get home becauseI'll be able to talk to a load
of people when I'm there in theday.
And a lot of the time it'sabout the networking aspect.
And and I love, and I know youlove uh networking as well, just
you know, talking to lots andlots of different people, you
(38:16):
know, absorbing ideas,exchanging ideas, and and you
know, that's really it's uh it'sa hotbed for that kind of
thing.
Um so valuable, so valuable.
Dr James (38:26):
So that's on the 9th of May, that's in Birmingham at
the East Side Rooms uh inBirmingham.
And yeah, run it's a day eventconference we were talking about
just a second ago.
And interestingly, we're gonnabe not we're gonna be announcing
a competition on tickets onthat next week.
So keep your eyes peeled to theDennis who invest audience for
that one, where we're gonna begiving away four free tickets,
(38:49):
which is flipping awesome.
Looking forward to that.
Hope everybody has anabsolutely amazing day.
Whenever you listen to thispodcast, whenever it hits the
airwaves, we're currentlyshooting on a Friday.
So if you hear it on a Friday,have a great weekend.
If you don't hear it on aFriday, have a flipping smashing
week ahead.
But whatever happens to you,I'm looking forward to the next
episode already.
Dan, we need to do a follow up,we need to book it in, we need
(39:09):
to make it happen.
So let's make that one officialvery soon.
In the meantime, much love,peace out, and see you all soon.
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