March 12, 2026 • 41 mins
Surprise: the star of KBIS wasn’t a futuristic gadget but the return of character. We dive into a wave of “what’s old is new again,” where doors get beaded and chamfered profiles, mullions and mesh come back with purpose, and stained glass quietly flexes in kitchens and baths. After years of flat fronts and white shaker, this shift doesn’t feel fussy—it feels intentional, with cleaner proportions, smarter materials, and a warmer, crafted vibe.
We break down the material story driving that warmth: rift-cut white oak, walnut, and even revived cherry, paired with natural stone that’s reclaiming space from quartz. Countertops move beyond the square edge to ogee, double ogee, and bullnose, while thin 1–2 cm slabs unlock thermoformed curves and softer geometry. We tackle the practical side too—how to maintain ergonomic heights with thinner tops and how new textured finishes manage cleanup. The room expands beyond cabinets as arches, wide crowns, paneled walls, and bold trim treatments turn kitchens into cohesive architectural statements. Color’s still surging, but now in matte appliance finishes—hot pink, mauve, navy, and leafy greens that sit comfortably next to honest wood and stone.
There’s a fresh frontier as well: luxe closets. We’re seeing full-on kitchen-level detailing in wardrobe spaces, from fluted panels and glass doors to island-grade surfaces and lighting. Tile tech adds drama with oversize “wallpaper” porcelains and custom-printed trims that match pattern and tone. And for anyone heading to a massive trade show, we share our battle-tested plan to see more, stress less, and actually capture what matters—when to walk which hall, how to avoid the mobbed booths, and how to mine your photos for early trend signals. The industry mood is upbeat, even as hiring remains tough and AI enters the chat; the real opportunity lies in pairing human craft with better tools and a sharper eye for detail.
If this kind of design intel fuels your work, follow along, share the episode with a colleague, and leave a quick review so others can find it. Got a favorite comeback trend or a question about specifying thin slabs, matte finishes, or closet systems? Tell us what you’re testing next.
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Designer Discussions is a partnership of three experts: Jason Lockhart, CEO of KABMS; Maria Martin, founder of DesignAppy; and Mirjam Lippuner, founder of Get Ink DIY
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Jason Lockhart (00:34):
Nice to have you here.
So uh you know we usually haveyou on every year just to talk
about uh highlights from whathappened at the ABCL.
So if you could just give us abrief overview and no, no,
sounds great.
Jan Rutgers (00:47):
Thanks, uh Jason and Miriam.
And I do, I really look forwardevery year to um to doing this
podcast because uh it itactually forces me to um you
know kind of go through all myall my images and I and I
counted.
I I had close to 900 picturesthat I took while I was at was
at K Biz.
So it's it's um you know youguys you know really encourage
(01:11):
me or force me to to get um youknow everything organized to be
able to talk about uh reallywhat I saw and for me to be able
to just um you know just kindof put everything into context.
So so um you know just kind ofbased on that, I'll I'll kind of
ramble along and you know Iknow Jason and Miriam, you'll
you'll um jump in.
(01:31):
But um as I was kind of goingthrough all the images that uh
you know I'm always kind oflooking for themes and you know
we've seen different themes,especially um you know since um
I think it was 2022 when it wasthe first um K Biz that that
came back, that was kind of thereal shocker that all of a
sudden we saw, you know, I sawsuch a softening, you know, of
(01:53):
everything, like curves andarches and things like that.
So um, you know, that's stillstill continuing, but I think
the biggest trend that I saw atK Biz is what I'm calling what's
old is new again.
And um, you know, I was talkingwith some manufacturers and we
were all kind of chucklingabout, you know, different
(02:15):
things that that we're seeing umin the displays at K Biz are
you know just stuff that theveterans, you know, like myself
that have been in the industryforever, were seeing a um a
regurgitating of of these.
So I just kind of wanted to,I've made a list here myself of
different things, and you know,I'll throw in a few comments
(02:37):
from some of the manufacturersthat I talked about.
But it's definitely seeing um,you know, just some of the some
of the things that we were doingwith with kitchens, um, you
know, say even 15, 20 years ago,that are starting to creep back
in.
So some examples of that are umkitchen cabinet doors.
Well, yes, you know, there wasa lot of you know, shaker.
(03:00):
We still see a lot of shakerdoors, but it was not dominant
the way that it that it had beenin the past.
We're seeing a lot more detailin doors and drawer fronts.
And um, you know, that wassomething like a lot of recess
panel, like a shaker door is arecessed panel door, you know,
with that inside sticking beingthe shaker, but but I was seeing
(03:23):
beaded insides, I was seeingchamfered insides.
I was just seeing that detailthat you know I was used to, you
know, as a kitchen designer um,you know, years ago, which, you
know, to me, um, you know, wasreally exciting.
You know, I was getting kind ofbored with everything being
that strict, you know, whiteshaker.
You know what?
I don't think I saw a singlewhite shaker kitchen.
(03:44):
You know, I may have to kind ofgo through again, but that was
that was really interesting.
Um, we also saw, or I also sawa lot of, so again, recess panel
doors, but the interior panelsare starting to get detail.
Um, you know, a lot a few yearsago, um, it was kind of the
introduction of that fluting umlook, but this year, you know, I
(04:09):
was I was seeing um wallpaper,you know, put inside um a uh
panel.
Now that's almost a throwbackto the 70s, long before I
started designing kitchens, butI remember um you know ripping
out kitchens that had wallpaperuh uh on their panels um in the
kitchen cabinet.
But I saw that and the mesh ummetal mesh inserts.
(04:33):
So when I say, you know, what'sold to do again, you know, back
in the day when people used tohave those stereo stacks of all
of this different equipment thatproduced a lot of heat, you
know, we were building um andspecifying entertainment units
with these metal mesh in thefront of it just for air
circulation.
And I saw a ton of that um justjust throughout the show that
(04:57):
um they weren't using it for aircirculation, but just for as a
decorative element.
We also um, you know, I evencame across one display that had
louvered panels on the insideof um the the cabinet doors.
Now it was for an under-counterlaundry area where they had
built-in European uh washer anddryer behind doors, so
(05:20):
definitely you know, looking atit, but um looking at air
circulation there.
But it, you know, it gave anice kind of cottage-y, you
know, look had I hadn't seen fora while.
Um, another thing with thedoors, I had a whole list here
of things on the doors, butanother one was traditional
mullioned glass doors.
So glass doors with thosetraditional crossbars mullions.
(05:45):
So that's not something thatI've seen for a while, like um,
because it's it is a bit moretraditional, but I was seeing
that.
I was seeing some X mullions umbehind with the glass doors.
And I also one that really mademe chuckle is in 1999, you
know, I built the designer homeand uh put in an award-winning
(06:07):
kitchen.
You know, I just loved, and Iremember what I did is I took a
standard recess panel door and Iadded, you know, wood mullions,
you know, to the door.
Uh some of them I did in glass,but some of them I did in um
just veneer panels, just to addsome detail, you know, to that
shaker door that was uh sopopular back then.
(06:29):
And here I'm walking around ina display and I saw that exact
door that uh that I had designedfor my home like 25 years ago.
So that was you know, that, youknow, and and and I know where
it's coming from.
You know, you we've got a wholenew generation of kitchen
designers.
The the you know, a lot of ourdesigners are millennials.
(06:50):
Well, they may not, you know,they haven't experienced those
those types of looks in theirdesign.
So to them, this is gonna besomething new and exciting.
And um, you know, and I thinkthat that's why some of the
veteran manufacturers that I wasaround, you know, talking with
were telling me, yeah, you know,we had discontinued tons of
(07:10):
this stuff out of our catalogs,you know, a a decade or more
ago.
And now we're having to bringit all back in.
So that's that's gonna be aninteresting one to watch.
But just kind of looking at afew more things with um with the
doors.
Uh I actually even saw somestained glass um doors, you
know, as a glass insert doingsome stained glass.
(07:33):
One of them, I think it waskind of a um uh kind of a um
Frank Lloyd Wright kind ofcraftsman look, but um, and then
one though was really quitetraditional with little you
know, circles of littlecrystals, you know, inside a
leaded glass door in a principalbathroom, which wasn't
something that we've seen for uhquite a while.
(07:54):
The um doors with uh umcutouts, like using the CNC and
taking that panel and cuttingout a maybe a flower or
something like that.
I saw a couple examples ofthat.
And um I even saw, you know,and you know, again, you'll
probably chuckle with this one,Jason.
I even saw a couple of raisedpanel doors.
(08:15):
We have not seen raised paneldoors, you know, it seems like
for years, and some mitereddoors.
So I think this is gonna besomething for us to really
watch.
Uh, what's what's gonna happenwith cabinet doors?
And I think that, you know, alot of the techniques that we
were perfecting in the early2000s with really pushing the
envelope on cabinet doors, Ithink we're gonna start seeing
(08:38):
that again because you know,consumers, designers, uh, you
know, are getting kind of bored,you know, of the same old, same
old.
And um, we do have thetechnology to to do a lot of
this.
So that um I'm I'm gonna youknow, I'm gonna put it out
there.
I feel that's gonna be a trend.
Definitely a detail with ourcabinet doors.
(08:59):
Does it make sense to you guyson seeing it?
Then uh, so another thingscrolling through all the images
I started to see was was umkitchen material.
So what you know, what's kindof um you know old is new again,
definitely stained wood.
You know, we we had gonethrough painted cabinetry in the
(09:20):
last 10 years, you know, aspredominant as the predominant
finish.
But um, I would have to sayevery cabinet manufacturer and a
lot of the other manufacturersthat use cabinetry as a
backdrop, like the appliancepeople and the plumbing people,
the countertop people, we'reseeing a ton of natural woods.
(09:41):
Um natural rift-cut white oak,natural um walnut or or other
woods that are stained in lightcolors.
You know, I even saw a umcherry wood uh kitchen display,
you know, which you know kind ofshocked me a little bit, but
um, you know, they added somereally cool detail to it.
(10:01):
But um it's just againre-exploring the wood, and and I
and I could see it.
Like I, you know, I wouldalmost guess that there was a
lot of millennials that werethat were designing these
displays.
And to them, this is new andexciting.
So it it was nice to see.
I personally love wood cabinettree.
I think that it has morelongevity, that it's you know,
(10:22):
kind of tougher than a paintthan a painted finish.
So you know, I was really happyto um see that coming out.
For other materials, naturalstone.
You know, uh of course therewere a tremendous amount of
quartz um displays there, butyou I was starting to see the
countertop manufacturersintroducing natural stones and
(10:45):
um you know using you know,using natural stones, which
again we were doing, you know, acouple of decades ago.
You know, that was it.
We only had granite and marbleto choose from.
We didn't have you know quartz.
I think they, you know, I I'llhave to check my dates, but I
think quartz kind of came inaround 05, you know, heavily
into the market.
And um, you know, again, youknow, people start seeing, you
(11:08):
know, kind of the same thing,you know, over and over again.
And uh, you know, natural stonewith their with the natural
variations is something that isattracting buyers.
So um saw that I actually sawthat a lot in the peripheral,
what do I call the peripheraldisplays?
They weren't actually thecabinet manufacturers, but the
(11:29):
appliance manufacturers and anduh plumbing using a lot of
natural stone.
And decorative hardware.
We hardware's always been youknow something that's been
around, but I definitely saw thethe displays playing a lot more
with hardware, which whichagain we used to do a lot in the
(11:50):
past of really adding a lot ofdetail.
So having seeing a lot ofdecorative hardware and all of
the options and and just playingand having fun with it.
It's something I rememberdoing, you know, as a young
designer to really give thatthat um individuality to the pro
to my projects.
And I thought it was reallynice to see it because it's a
(12:11):
fabulous way for a um designerto get a custom look, you know,
on um on a budget.
Um what else?
Okay, kitchen details.
And again, this was one I was Iwas just having lots of
chuckles as I was I was walkingaround.
And it was in one display thatum actually, you know, and they
(12:33):
they they won for their um theirtheir display.
It was actually the Fabiwooddisplay, and in one of their uh
vignettes, they had a wall ofcabinetry that terminated in
round open shelves on the wallcabinets and the base cabinets.
We used to refer to them asknick-nack shelves, you know,
(12:54):
years ago.
It's just it was a it's notfloating shelves, it's a you
know, L, kind of an L-shaped um,you know, box with uh radius uh
wood shelves on the end.
And that one really broughtback memories.
I can't believe how manyknick-knack shelves, you know, I
would have designed you knowinto kitchens in the late 90s
and and early 2000s.
(13:16):
Have not seen those in catalogsfor years and years, but I I
can see that they'll they'll becoming back.
Along that same area of theknick-knack, the radius knick
knack shelves were the radiuscabinet doors.
And I was talking with theplain and fancy uh cabinet
(13:36):
manufacturer, and uh you know,he was telling, we got talking
about it, and I went, oh mygoodness, you know, again,
what's old is new again?
And he said, You're so right,Jan.
We removed these doors from ourcatalog in 2015, and now we've
got to put them back in becauseof the because of the demand.
Like they they hung around likepeople hadn't been ordering
them um at all.
(13:57):
But uh it was reallyinteresting that that soft
geometry look is bringing backproducts that you know were in
manufacturers' catalog decades,decades ago.
So um again, kind of keepingwith the radius, eyebrow arches.
You know, I was kind of theeyebrow arch queen of um of uh
(14:20):
you know the early 2000s.
I did a ton of arched cabinetsand an eyebrow arch is rather
than having a full arch on asingle door, that you have a
half arch where two doors cometogether to make a big wide
arch.
So these eyebrow arched doors,great way to get this look.
I gotta say, I'm I'm glad tosee uh some of the cabinet
(14:43):
manufacturers bringing it backbecause I think it's a fabulous
way for a designer to get thatlook without having to radius um
a whole custom cabinet.
Um, another another one that Isaw in the details was um
beadboard behind open shelves.
You know, we used to do thatall the time, um, especially
(15:03):
during that um you know early2000s where it was kind of that
Tuscan influence was everywhere,and we were wanting to get
detail.
Um, so you'd have an open glassdoor cabinet or open shelf
cabinet.
Uh, you know, often we wouldthen stick a beadboard panel in
the back of it just to add moretexture.
So I saw that that comingthrough in some of the displays.
(15:26):
Plint feet or kick feet, solittle details at the kick area,
little feet, little arches,with seeing that as detail.
You know, again, another early2000 look that um that we saw uh
coming out, and I think they'rejust um reinventing it on how
um how we can do it in a moremodern way.
(15:46):
Island posts that you know whatI didn't see.
Um well, maybe maybe I saw acouple ultra um contemporary
European kitchens, but most ofthe kitchens that I saw, you
know, were heavily detailed.
So, you know, having posts atthe end of the island or um at
the end of a run that it justwasn't just a flat panel, that
(16:09):
there was that that detailed.
And you know, now again, Ididn't see this everywhere, but
I did see a pot rack in in uhone of the displays.
And you know, getting I'mgetting a chuckle from Jason
there.
And like personally, you know,I I'm a cook.
I you know, I like all my stuffhanded there.
Uh, you know, I've been okaywith pot racks, you know.
(16:29):
I think in the right situation,they're they're good.
So so it was fun um to seethere was a a metal manufacturer
there showcasing a pot rack,which was kind of cool.
And um a couple of displays,really traditional, stacked
crown moldings, pilasters, youknow, the kind of real panel
(16:50):
molding added onto the cabinetryfor details.
Haven't seen that in a long,long time.
So, you know, one display Isaw, you know, very much over
the top with it, but you know,it could be the beginning of
bringing back that uhtraditional detail.
With the countertops, um, likejust looking at different
materials with the countertops,we or I definitely was seeing a
(17:16):
lot of edge treatments that wereway beyond the square um edge
or the, you know, just kind ofthat, you know, I don't even
know what what we call itanymore, but that basic square
edge, east edge, east edge,which was the only thing that
you ever got the count thecountertop manufacturers to do
in the last decade.
There were a ton of OGs anddouble OGs and bull nose with um
(17:41):
different looks, and you know,that that was huge, you know, in
my market when you know, whengranite came into the
marketplace in the 90s, um, hada lot of great um you know
fabricators in my area being aport city.
We were bringing in a lot ofgranite.
And oh, I remember doing somany decorative edge treatments
(18:03):
on my granite.
And um, you know, for the lastdecade we've seen you know just
kind of that square edge.
Every display, I'd have to say,had some edge treatment on
their countertops.
And, you know, and again,they're kind of um in one
display, I found it kind ofinteresting is they actually did
the OG on the bottom edge ofthe um countertop, not the top
(18:25):
edge.
Honey enough, the only time yousaw it is if you were sitting
down, you know, and looking backat it, like you couldn't.
So that yeah, I'm gonna watchthat one to just see, you know,
is it worth the investment?
You know, if you don't, if youdon't really see it.
But there was a lot of um ofedge treatment coming in.
And um, another thing that thata few of the places were
(18:47):
started was starting to showcasewas thermal forming of the
countertop material becausewe're able to get they're able
to get the countertops muchthinner.
Now, this is something when Isay what's old is new again.
You know, I used a lot of thecorion product in um in my
practice, and we'd thermal formthat all the time because you
could just heat it up.
(19:08):
But um, that wasn't somethingthat I had seen for a long, long
time.
And now the countertopmanufacturers with the
porcelains and being able to getdown to one cm thickness in
their countertops, there were alot of them experimenting with
thermal forming the countertops.
So that's going to open up um,you know, a lot of creativity,
(19:31):
which I did see with the Corionproduct, especially in in um,
you know, the first um decade ofthe century, that there were a
lot of designers really playingwith that material and um you
know, heating it up and andgetting into these more organic
shapes, which makes sense thatwe're seeing more organic, it's
not as square and hardeverything.
(19:52):
So uh that's gonna I thinkthat's gonna be a real fun one
to watch.
Uh room details.
So when I, you know, when I'min looking at the the displays
and snapping pictures, it's youknow, it's not you know just
about you know the actualcabinetry and and the
countertop.
I like to look at thebackground.
(20:13):
And this was a year where I wasseeing a lot of traditional
elements in the background, um,specifically at the Kohler, you
know, booth.
They had um uh Studio Mogee,you know, had um a big display
area, and um, you know,everything that she did in there
was um was on the traditionalside, like you know, cased
(20:34):
arches and wide crown moldingsand baseboards and casings and
panel molding and a lot ofdetail um on the walls that kind
of echoed what was going onwith the cabinetry.
Um but it but still a moderntake, like it still felt modern,
but it definitely was bringingthat that um you know
(20:55):
traditional look you know into amodern kitchen.
And um probably you were justnot ignoring the walls anymore
and the ceiling that they'regetting part of part of the
kitchen.
So that I think is going to bea trend for um designers to
watch.
Don't ignore you know thatfifth wall, your ceiling, or
(21:16):
those blank walls, or thosecasings that you know, flat
stock is not you know the endall be all to um you know,
finishing off a room that'slayering in and adding some more
of this detail or texture.
And then um looking at that,like I so I so I would kind of
say overall it was kind ofwhat's old is new again, but
(21:40):
there were a couple of otherthings that I did see that I
felt um was new to the market.
And the first one was appliancecolor.
We have been seeing a lot ofcolor in appliances in the last
five years, so that that's beena real highlight of color.
This year, the color was allmatte, so we you know.
Typically when you're paintinga um in an appliance, the same
(22:04):
like when you're painting a car,there's a glossiness to the
finish.
The m cabinet the appliancemanufacturers, just about all of
them that that I saw wereintroducing matte finishes.
So that's that's going to beinteresting to just to see.
You know, I don't know how itstands up or um, you know, what
process, but you can see thatthey've all been working on it
(22:26):
because almost every upper-endappliance manufacturer display I
had a look look at hadbeautiful colors but in matte
finishes.
And uh now here's something Ithink we got to be watching for.
There were a ton of closetdisplays.
So I'm thinking, is the closetgoing to become that next room
(22:50):
that um you know that thekitchen designer, the cabinet
designer is really going to beable to have fun with.
A little bit of what's old isnew again.
You know, I remember designingLuxe closets, you know, almost
my entire career.
I, you know, I I've always usedkitchen cabinetry and van and
vanity cabinetry and you know,reimagined them into these
(23:14):
deluxe luxe closets.
But um I was kind of a littlebit shocked about how many just
closet manufacturers weredisplaying and like high-end and
um just as tricked out, youknow, as any kitchen.
So that I'm gonna predictthat's gonna be kind of our next
room.
You know, we've had the luxelaundry room, you know, we've
(23:34):
had the home office, we've hadthe media wall, um, we've had
the the pantry.
So um I'm gonna say it's gonnabe the closet, it's gonna be the
next, um, the next big one.
And um, you know, just a coupleof you know, little things, you
know, maybe not a trend, but Iwas at at um one tile um
manufacturer, distributor, andjust something that really
(23:57):
caught my eye was these hugeformat tiles that looked like
wallpaper.
So, you know, here was a wayto, you know, it's it's going to
be an investment and it's good,and it's you know, it's gonna
be a long-term investment, youknow, to put massive floral
tiles, you know, on your walls.
But um, I think it's just theuh technology, it's just getting
(24:17):
so much better for um for ourproducts for them to be able to
print on it that um kind of thenew thing was okay, what can
what can we print onto onto aproduct?
Like even with the tile, Iwould I did pop over to the um
ibiz side, you know, just for acouple of hours, and I saw that
Schluter, who is a ummanufacturer of tile trim
(24:40):
pieces, you could now provide asample to them and they would
custom print your your edgetreatment to match the tile.
So no longer did you just havethe basic uh metals and basic
colors.
Like if you had if you had thattile that was that floral, you
could send a sample to um uh toSchluter manufacturer and have
(25:04):
it printed right onto your umedge trim.
So I thought, you know, that'syou know, the kind of technology
coming back.
And uh the last one that I'vegot here on my list of new stuff
um was going back to thecountertops, and it is the is
showing really thin countertops.
Now, funny enough, um, we couldprobably go that's old as new
(25:27):
again, that uh when I visitedthe um Ural Kachina show in
2010, that was something thatreally struck me was uh so many
of the uh displays showed thesereally thin, like one and two CM
countertops rather than thethree, you know, three to four
CM that that we've been doinghere in North America.
(25:49):
But it's definitely catchingup, and there was a lot of two
CM countertops um on display, alot of thin ones.
And I was in one cabinetmanufacturer that had it, and uh
so um a question I had, youknow, for the the rep that I was
talking to, and going, Well,have you, you know, have you
modified the cabinet boxes toraise them up higher?
(26:10):
Because this counter seems alittle low.
So, you know, it's you know,anything that that we change in
our industry, and they had not,you know, and that's why the
countertop um felt too low.
But you know, the designer, youknow, when you see these new
things, you know, you reallywant to be thinking about them.
And something of, you know, itis a new way of looking at at
the proportion in a kitchen,having these thin countertops,
(26:32):
but you still needfunctionality.
You don't all of a sudden wantto be dropping the height of
your countertops, you know,because you haven't thought
about, you know, everythingbeing pulled together.
So um, you know, that's that.
And then maybe um, you know,the countertop people or the the
um the slab producers are doinga lot of experimenting, and I
(26:53):
saw a lot of texture that washappening.
And I guess they've been ableto figure out how to add texture
to countertops or backsplashesor vertical applications and
still make them um you know easyto maintain because that's you
know you don't want to begetting getting grit in there.
But they were talking a lotabout that in the booth.
So that is kind of my overviewof what I saw.
(27:17):
And uh, you know, I'm surethere's you know other things,
but um, I guess maybe just towrap up uh detail, you know,
looking at you know, some ofthat stuff that was being done
in our industry, you know, 25,30 years ago.
How is it being reinvented andbeing brought back?
Jason Lockhart (27:36):
I love it.
I love it.
So last year, I was justlooking over the notes from last
year.
You touched a lot on though onhow over the years it built up
and last year it was uh you sawit all over the place.
So what did you think about thecolor this year at the show?
Jan Rutgers (27:52):
Um, yeah, it's continuing.
That when I'm in a you knowfairly traditional cabinet
manufacturers display and theyhave a hot pink kitchen, then
then we know that uh color.
Like I saw hot pink, I saw a Isaw mauve or mauve, you know,
kind of that light purpley tone.
(28:13):
Um, I saw like lots of lightgreens and um, you know, navies,
yeah.
Color was everywhere.
And you know, and I'm glad youbring it up, Jason, because in
in uh years past, the color inthe cabinet tree was mostly
coming from the appliancemanufacturers and the plumbing
(28:34):
manufacturers and the countertopmanufacturers sometimes um
using cabinet tree, you know, aspart of their displays, you
know, and they weren't sellingcabinet trees.
So they, you know, they couldthey could take a risk and do
something.
This year I was seeing it withthe cabinet manufacturers.
So that that is a big switchthat you know they're
(28:55):
introducing those finishes andthose those colors into their
offering now, whereas they usedto be just so conservative.
Remind me again, how manypictures did you take?
You know what?
I did count them on close to900.
Jason Lockhart (29:10):
Okay.
And I looked at last year, youtook over 650.
So you are amazing at lookingat the show at a certain
advantage point.
So for the designers out there,because I often get asked, um,
there's so much to see.
How do you organize what yousee over the show?
And if you had somebody new, adesigner that hasn't ever been
(29:32):
to his show or any shows, howwould you advise them to look at
it and take all of this in?
Because it's a lot.
It's it it could be over.
Jan Rutgers (29:40):
It absolutely is a great question because I
actually wrote a blog on this,you know, probably three years
ago.
But here's my strategy is um soI always arrive um to the show
the day before.
And you know, it's and it's alittle basic thing.
You know, the the um the venueis open, like you can't go into
the display, but I go down andget my pass.
(30:01):
I make sure I've got my land,I've got my pass, and I'm ready
to go.
The first day, I always kind ofgo to that outlying pavilion,
typically with um K Biz.
And um, you know, in Las Vegas,they've kind of got South Hall,
which is the big, big hall, andthey've got West Hall.
Um, here in Orlando, they theyhad um, yeah, I think it was
(30:25):
West Hall and North Hall orSouth Hall.
I, you know, I look, I grab, Igrab a catalog that first day
too, so that I look at the map,I look at where everybody is,
and I determined, um, and and Ialways do this with the shows,
that I determine kind of what iskind of the peripheral um hall.
You know, still's got stuff Iwant to see, but maybe doesn't
(30:46):
have the big names, like the bigKohler monogram, uh, you know,
some of the the largermanufacturers, you know,
typically they're all uh jumbledin one hall.
So what I do is I go to thatfirst day, I go to that
peripheral hall because a lot ofpeople go to the big hall the
first day and it's crazycrowded.
So I go over to that other one,I spend the whole day there.
(31:08):
And um, you know, I do.
I have got my phone out withme, and as I'm walking through,
I am taking a you know a lot ofpictures because um I when I go
back, I can kind of look atthem.
But um, and I'm very systematicthat um, you know, I kind of
walk in, I go to the right, andI just do a grid pattern to make
(31:28):
sure that I kind of hiteverything.
The second day, I tend to go tothe big hall.
And uh the big hall is where Iwant to um, you know, just kind
of look at it what you know,everything that's going on, get
the vibe, but I actually stayout of the big booths, the big
popular booths on that daybecause they're crowded as can
be, and it's difficult to get inand see them and get pictures.
(31:51):
So I I get a good grounding onwhat's happening and um on that
uh that same same on that thatfirst day.
I'm able to walk the whole showto be able to see where it is.
But as I said, I don't I don'tgo into Kohler on that first
day.
I don't go into monogram.
And then the last day, becauseeverybody's leaving Wednesday
(32:12):
night and Thursday morning,that's when I'd go and look at
those big booths that I'm reallyinterested in, or that there's
been a buzz.
You know, when you're at ashow, you start to hear, you
know, kind of what the buzz is.
And you know, and it's funnybecause on my Instagram I was
getting I was getting comments.
How did you get pictures?
You know, I was in that booth,I couldn't see anything.
(32:32):
I said, Well, I don't go tothat booth till Thursday
afternoon.
Nobody does Yeah.
So, and then, you know, there'slots going on at a show and
there's dinners and stuff likethat.
But I do come back to my hotelroom, you know, usually the show
closes at four, and maybeyou're going out for dinner at
six, and I will spend an hourflipping through um kind of my
(32:53):
images, and and that just kindof kind of tweaks me on okay,
what am I starting to see?
And I started seeing thatwhat's old as new thing after
the first day.
So then now I'm looking for it.
But um, you know, it it is itis having, you know, having a uh
a plan because I do see a lotof uh first timers getting
(33:14):
really overwhelmed and they'rejust walking around like
zombies, you know, and they justdon't know where to go.
And and I know I'm not gonna bereally popular on this next
one, but I don't like to do ashow in a group.
You know, it is too difficult.
So even when I've takendesigners to uh shows like this,
we get in there, we meet as agroup, and I say, okay, you
(33:35):
know, let's just everybody gooff on their own for an hour.
Um, I want you to go off inyour own, and then I want you to
come, we're gonna meet back,you know, right here in an hour
or an hour and a half, and we'rejust gonna share what we saw.
And I find that that thatdesigners get way more out of
that than a group of eightpeople kind of, you know,
clomping around the show becauseyou're losing somebody or
(33:56):
waiting for somebody.
And um I do typically do theshows on my own.
You know, maybe, maybe mypartner sometime is with me, but
I get to see more andexperience more, you know, kind
of on my own time.
Jason Lockhart (34:09):
I love that.
I love that.
Now, you usually have a blogthat highlights all of this.
Are you gonna have a blog onwhat happened this time as well?
You you may, you may be forcingme since you're asking because
we usually link the blog to theI don't, yeah.
Jan Rutgers (34:26):
I haven't, it's been a very, very busy, uh busy
year, you know, a lot of clientsand a lot of things going on,
and um, you know, the vestibulelearning uh platform is kind of
really taking off, and so I'vebeen focusing on that.
So I don't have it on my agendaright now.
So um, you know, it's um youknow, I appreciate it.
I uh I'm gonna I you know Imight put something together.
(34:47):
Like, you know, I enjoy doingthis, and if I do, I'll uh I'll
send you I'll send you the link.
Jason Lockhart (34:52):
Everyone's gonna have to listen to the podcast.
Absolutely.
That's it.
And I think your approach isabsolutely genius.
Because and I think I it'sfascinating listening to you and
after when you describe becauseI'm from Europe and we don't
(35:13):
have a lot of things that haveto think that you were talking
about the way you talk becauseum working in the color boost
and other boost, and it's sotrue.
It's like the first two daysare complete ma'am, you know,
(35:36):
and it's popular boost, and thenthere's nobody.
So I think that's that's reallythat's really clever.
Jan Rutgers (35:43):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, alsotoo, for you know, for the
individual or for the company,this is a big investment.
Like, you know, this is this isnot a couple hundred bucks for
me, you know, especially for meto fly across the country and
and you know, like literally megetting there, my my 10-hour
commute from the west coast toFlorida turned into 24 hours the
(36:04):
first, you know, the first day.
So, you know, that's aninvestment in time and money and
everything.
So, you know, I you know,definitely if if you're planning
on going or if your company'ssending you, you know, I think
you owe it to yourself to um,you know, to really, you know,
get the most out of it.
Like it is, it's a privilege tobe able to go to a show like
this and um be able toexperience it and make those
(36:27):
those connections.
Jason Lockhart (36:29):
Yeah, now both Jason and I have FOMO because we
both didn't end up going thisyear.
And it's it's kind of nicebecause I'm not a big fan of
Orlando and trying to get aroundduring a picture.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Oh, it's just fun.
I have one um question for youwith regards to just like the
(36:49):
general vibe.
And like as you were talkingwith people, like what what
sense did you guess you readlike the reports of the industry
and so on, but it's like whatwas the general vibe?
Were people excited or um whatwas it like?
Jan Rutgers (37:05):
Do you know what I think the general vibe, and it's
always going to be positive,you know, a show like this,
other than the traffic.
Like you, you, you brought upthat, you know, that you know, I
I can't see K this going backto Orlando like when it was
taking me two hours to get um toa restaurant that was you know
two miles from my hotel, whichwas crazy.
I even had Uber phone me whileI was in an Uber to see if I was
(37:29):
okay because my vehicle hadmoved for several minutes.
So that's you know, that thatjust kind of sums up um the
evenings there.
But you know, I think, youknow, I think the the vibe is
positive.
Maybe the nature, you know, ofwhat I do with with vestibule
learning of of teaching um youknow kitchen designers.
I had a lot of um differentcontacts talking to me about um
(37:54):
you know kind of the industrygoing through this difficult
time of trying to hire uhpeople.
That that probably every almostevery conversation that I had
did revolve around around that.
And it is, it's getting it isdifficult to um to hire quote
unquote experienced people inthis industry because there is
(38:15):
so much going on and there's youknow this chaos of choice and
you know all of these differentchanges and you know all these
all these different things tolearn.
But but you know, I think onthe whole, you know, most of the
people that I talked to, youknow, were were pumped about it.
And um, you know, I you know, Ithink definitely our industry,
you know, is is one that isalways evolving.
(38:38):
And um, you know, the our b Ithink our biggest thing is is
gonna be labor shortages.
Even even with AI, yeah, the AIconversation came up quite a
bit.
And um that's that's definitelygonna be creeping in there, but
we're still gonna need, youknow, we're still gonna need
people to be stuck in ourindustry and and just how we're
gonna attract you know thosebright young minds, you know, to
(39:01):
to the industry and get themtrained and and get them excited
and you know have them you knowhave re rewarding careers like
I've had in the industry.
We'll just kind of keep theconversations going.
And uh um, you know, I thinkwe're back in Vegas again next
year.
So it's truck down to that one.
At least it's an easier, aneasier flight on the from the
(39:22):
West Coast.
But uh yeah, we'll see.
You guys will be there.
Well, I'll go just because youguys will be there.
Jason Lockhart (39:29):
I think we're planning on it at this point,
right?
Yeah.
Yes, yes, we'll be there nexttime.
So so if any of our listenerswant to learn more, how do they
contact?
Jan Rutgers (39:40):
Um, well, they can um it it's a little bit of a
work in the progress right now,but they can pop onto my website
Vestibule, um, which is V-E S TA B U L dot com.
And uh there's contact sheetsthere that that um of the
contact page that you can get ahold of me.
And uh, you know, that's whereI've got my online uh learning
(40:04):
with um with the kitchenindustry.
So that's that would definitelybe the best one.
And I'd love to, yeah, I'd loveto hear from them.
And love, you know, maybe Iwill get a blog.
I haven't written a blog forabout a year because you know,
just of circumstances, and maybeI will get a blog out and and
get people to um you knowcomment on their experience at K
Biz 2026.
Jason Lockhart (40:23):
Awesome.
Well, we always enjoy havingyou for these wrap-ups.
We hope to have you again nextyear as well.
Sounds good.
Sounds good.
So we hope to hear and see youall here in two weeks on design
of the cutscene.
Thank you.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Design of Discussion.
And all of the helpfulinformation.
(40:44):
Subscribe to our podcast, leaveus over to you and your
podcast.
We look forward to adding formore information on the podcast
and the more podcasts.
Nice to have you here.
So uh you know we usually haveyou on every year just to talk
about uh highlights from whathappened at the ABCL.
So if you could just give us abrief overview and no, no,
sounds great.
Jan Rutgers (00:47):
Thanks, uh Jason and Miriam.
And I do, I really look forwardevery year to um to doing this
podcast because uh it itactually forces me to um you
know kind of go through all myall my images and I and I
counted.
I I had close to 900 picturesthat I took while I was at was
at K Biz.
So it's it's um you know youguys you know really encourage
(01:11):
me or force me to to get um youknow everything organized to be
able to talk about uh reallywhat I saw and for me to be able
to just um you know just kindof put everything into context.
So so um you know just kind ofbased on that, I'll I'll kind of
ramble along and you know Iknow Jason and Miriam, you'll
you'll um jump in.
(01:31):
But um as I was kind of goingthrough all the images that uh
you know I'm always kind oflooking for themes and you know
we've seen different themes,especially um you know since um
I think it was 2022 when it wasthe first um K Biz that that
came back, that was kind of thereal shocker that all of a
sudden we saw, you know, I sawsuch a softening, you know, of
(01:53):
everything, like curves andarches and things like that.
So um, you know, that's stillstill continuing, but I think
the biggest trend that I saw atK Biz is what I'm calling what's
old is new again.
And um, you know, I was talkingwith some manufacturers and we
were all kind of chucklingabout, you know, different
(02:15):
things that that we're seeing umin the displays at K Biz are
you know just stuff that theveterans, you know, like myself
that have been in the industryforever, were seeing a um a
regurgitating of of these.
So I just kind of wanted to,I've made a list here myself of
different things, and you know,I'll throw in a few comments
(02:37):
from some of the manufacturersthat I talked about.
But it's definitely seeing um,you know, just some of the some
of the things that we were doingwith with kitchens, um, you
know, say even 15, 20 years ago,that are starting to creep back
in.
So some examples of that are umkitchen cabinet doors.
Well, yes, you know, there wasa lot of you know, shaker.
(03:00):
We still see a lot of shakerdoors, but it was not dominant
the way that it that it had beenin the past.
We're seeing a lot more detailin doors and drawer fronts.
And um, you know, that wassomething like a lot of recess
panel, like a shaker door is arecessed panel door, you know,
with that inside sticking beingthe shaker, but but I was seeing
(03:23):
beaded insides, I was seeingchamfered insides.
I was just seeing that detailthat you know I was used to, you
know, as a kitchen designer um,you know, years ago, which, you
know, to me, um, you know, wasreally exciting.
You know, I was getting kind ofbored with everything being
that strict, you know, whiteshaker.
You know what?
I don't think I saw a singlewhite shaker kitchen.
(03:44):
You know, I may have to kind ofgo through again, but that was
that was really interesting.
Um, we also saw, or I also sawa lot of, so again, recess panel
doors, but the interior panelsare starting to get detail.
Um, you know, a lot a few yearsago, um, it was kind of the
introduction of that fluting umlook, but this year, you know, I
(04:09):
was I was seeing um wallpaper,you know, put inside um a uh
panel.
Now that's almost a throwbackto the 70s, long before I
started designing kitchens, butI remember um you know ripping
out kitchens that had wallpaperuh uh on their panels um in the
kitchen cabinet.
But I saw that and the mesh ummetal mesh inserts.
(04:33):
So when I say, you know, what'sold to do again, you know, back
in the day when people used tohave those stereo stacks of all
of this different equipment thatproduced a lot of heat, you
know, we were building um andspecifying entertainment units
with these metal mesh in thefront of it just for air
circulation.
And I saw a ton of that um justjust throughout the show that
(04:57):
um they weren't using it for aircirculation, but just for as a
decorative element.
We also um, you know, I evencame across one display that had
louvered panels on the insideof um the the cabinet doors.
Now it was for an under-counterlaundry area where they had
built-in European uh washer anddryer behind doors, so
(05:20):
definitely you know, looking atit, but um looking at air
circulation there.
But it, you know, it gave anice kind of cottage-y, you
know, look had I hadn't seen fora while.
Um, another thing with thedoors, I had a whole list here
of things on the doors, butanother one was traditional
mullioned glass doors.
So glass doors with thosetraditional crossbars mullions.
(05:45):
So that's not something thatI've seen for a while, like um,
because it's it is a bit moretraditional, but I was seeing
that.
I was seeing some X mullions umbehind with the glass doors.
And I also one that really mademe chuckle is in 1999, you
know, I built the designer homeand uh put in an award-winning
(06:07):
kitchen.
You know, I just loved, and Iremember what I did is I took a
standard recess panel door and Iadded, you know, wood mullions,
you know, to the door.
Uh some of them I did in glass,but some of them I did in um
just veneer panels, just to addsome detail, you know, to that
shaker door that was uh sopopular back then.
(06:29):
And here I'm walking around ina display and I saw that exact
door that uh that I had designedfor my home like 25 years ago.
So that was you know, that, youknow, and and and I know where
it's coming from.
You know, you we've got a wholenew generation of kitchen
designers.
The the you know, a lot of ourdesigners are millennials.
(06:50):
Well, they may not, you know,they haven't experienced those
those types of looks in theirdesign.
So to them, this is gonna besomething new and exciting.
And um, you know, and I thinkthat that's why some of the
veteran manufacturers that I wasaround, you know, talking with
were telling me, yeah, you know,we had discontinued tons of
(07:10):
this stuff out of our catalogs,you know, a a decade or more
ago.
And now we're having to bringit all back in.
So that's that's gonna be aninteresting one to watch.
But just kind of looking at afew more things with um with the
doors.
Uh I actually even saw somestained glass um doors, you
know, as a glass insert doingsome stained glass.
(07:33):
One of them, I think it waskind of a um uh kind of a um
Frank Lloyd Wright kind ofcraftsman look, but um, and then
one though was really quitetraditional with little you
know, circles of littlecrystals, you know, inside a
leaded glass door in a principalbathroom, which wasn't
something that we've seen for uhquite a while.
(07:54):
The um doors with uh umcutouts, like using the CNC and
taking that panel and cuttingout a maybe a flower or
something like that.
I saw a couple examples ofthat.
And um I even saw, you know,and you know, again, you'll
probably chuckle with this one,Jason.
I even saw a couple of raisedpanel doors.
(08:15):
We have not seen raised paneldoors, you know, it seems like
for years, and some mitereddoors.
So I think this is gonna besomething for us to really
watch.
Uh, what's what's gonna happenwith cabinet doors?
And I think that, you know, alot of the techniques that we
were perfecting in the early2000s with really pushing the
envelope on cabinet doors, Ithink we're gonna start seeing
(08:38):
that again because you know,consumers, designers, uh, you
know, are getting kind of bored,you know, of the same old, same
old.
And um, we do have thetechnology to to do a lot of
this.
So that um I'm I'm gonna youknow, I'm gonna put it out
there.
I feel that's gonna be a trend.
Definitely a detail with ourcabinet doors.
(08:59):
Does it make sense to you guyson seeing it?
Then uh, so another thingscrolling through all the images
I started to see was was umkitchen material.
So what you know, what's kindof um you know old is new again,
definitely stained wood.
You know, we we had gonethrough painted cabinetry in the
(09:20):
last 10 years, you know, aspredominant as the predominant
finish.
But um, I would have to sayevery cabinet manufacturer and a
lot of the other manufacturersthat use cabinetry as a
backdrop, like the appliancepeople and the plumbing people,
the countertop people, we'reseeing a ton of natural woods.
(09:41):
Um natural rift-cut white oak,natural um walnut or or other
woods that are stained in lightcolors.
You know, I even saw a umcherry wood uh kitchen display,
you know, which you know kind ofshocked me a little bit, but
um, you know, they added somereally cool detail to it.
(10:01):
But um it's just againre-exploring the wood, and and I
and I could see it.
Like I, you know, I wouldalmost guess that there was a
lot of millennials that werethat were designing these
displays.
And to them, this is new andexciting.
So it it was nice to see.
I personally love wood cabinettree.
I think that it has morelongevity, that it's you know,
(10:22):
kind of tougher than a paintthan a painted finish.
So you know, I was really happyto um see that coming out.
For other materials, naturalstone.
You know, uh of course therewere a tremendous amount of
quartz um displays there, butyou I was starting to see the
countertop manufacturersintroducing natural stones and
(10:45):
um you know using you know,using natural stones, which
again we were doing, you know, acouple of decades ago.
You know, that was it.
We only had granite and marbleto choose from.
We didn't have you know quartz.
I think they, you know, I I'llhave to check my dates, but I
think quartz kind of came inaround 05, you know, heavily
into the market.
And um, you know, again, youknow, people start seeing, you
(11:08):
know, kind of the same thing,you know, over and over again.
And uh, you know, natural stonewith their with the natural
variations is something that isattracting buyers.
So um saw that I actually sawthat a lot in the peripheral,
what do I call the peripheraldisplays?
They weren't actually thecabinet manufacturers, but the
(11:29):
appliance manufacturers and anduh plumbing using a lot of
natural stone.
And decorative hardware.
We hardware's always been youknow something that's been
around, but I definitely saw thethe displays playing a lot more
with hardware, which whichagain we used to do a lot in the
(11:50):
past of really adding a lot ofdetail.
So having seeing a lot ofdecorative hardware and all of
the options and and just playingand having fun with it.
It's something I rememberdoing, you know, as a young
designer to really give thatthat um individuality to the pro
to my projects.
And I thought it was reallynice to see it because it's a
(12:11):
fabulous way for a um designerto get a custom look, you know,
on um on a budget.
Um what else?
Okay, kitchen details.
And again, this was one I was Iwas just having lots of
chuckles as I was I was walkingaround.
And it was in one display thatum actually, you know, and they
(12:33):
they they won for their um theirtheir display.
It was actually the Fabiwooddisplay, and in one of their uh
vignettes, they had a wall ofcabinetry that terminated in
round open shelves on the wallcabinets and the base cabinets.
We used to refer to them asknick-nack shelves, you know,
(12:54):
years ago.
It's just it was a it's notfloating shelves, it's a you
know, L, kind of an L-shaped um,you know, box with uh radius uh
wood shelves on the end.
And that one really broughtback memories.
I can't believe how manyknick-knack shelves, you know, I
would have designed you knowinto kitchens in the late 90s
and and early 2000s.
(13:16):
Have not seen those in catalogsfor years and years, but I I
can see that they'll they'll becoming back.
Along that same area of theknick-knack, the radius knick
knack shelves were the radiuscabinet doors.
And I was talking with theplain and fancy uh cabinet
(13:36):
manufacturer, and uh you know,he was telling, we got talking
about it, and I went, oh mygoodness, you know, again,
what's old is new again?
And he said, You're so right,Jan.
We removed these doors from ourcatalog in 2015, and now we've
got to put them back in becauseof the because of the demand.
Like they they hung around likepeople hadn't been ordering
them um at all.
(13:57):
But uh it was reallyinteresting that that soft
geometry look is bringing backproducts that you know were in
manufacturers' catalog decades,decades ago.
So um again, kind of keepingwith the radius, eyebrow arches.
You know, I was kind of theeyebrow arch queen of um of uh
(14:20):
you know the early 2000s.
I did a ton of arched cabinetsand an eyebrow arch is rather
than having a full arch on asingle door, that you have a
half arch where two doors cometogether to make a big wide
arch.
So these eyebrow arched doors,great way to get this look.
I gotta say, I'm I'm glad tosee uh some of the cabinet
(14:43):
manufacturers bringing it backbecause I think it's a fabulous
way for a designer to get thatlook without having to radius um
a whole custom cabinet.
Um, another another one that Isaw in the details was um
beadboard behind open shelves.
You know, we used to do thatall the time, um, especially
(15:03):
during that um you know early2000s where it was kind of that
Tuscan influence was everywhere,and we were wanting to get
detail.
Um, so you'd have an open glassdoor cabinet or open shelf
cabinet.
Uh, you know, often we wouldthen stick a beadboard panel in
the back of it just to add moretexture.
So I saw that that comingthrough in some of the displays.
(15:26):
Plint feet or kick feet, solittle details at the kick area,
little feet, little arches,with seeing that as detail.
You know, again, another early2000 look that um that we saw uh
coming out, and I think they'rejust um reinventing it on how
um how we can do it in a moremodern way.
(15:46):
Island posts that you know whatI didn't see.
Um well, maybe maybe I saw acouple ultra um contemporary
European kitchens, but most ofthe kitchens that I saw, you
know, were heavily detailed.
So, you know, having posts atthe end of the island or um at
the end of a run that it justwasn't just a flat panel, that
(16:09):
there was that that detailed.
And you know, now again, Ididn't see this everywhere, but
I did see a pot rack in in uhone of the displays.
And you know, getting I'mgetting a chuckle from Jason
there.
And like personally, you know,I I'm a cook.
I you know, I like all my stuffhanded there.
Uh, you know, I've been okaywith pot racks, you know.
(16:29):
I think in the right situation,they're they're good.
So so it was fun um to seethere was a a metal manufacturer
there showcasing a pot rack,which was kind of cool.
And um a couple of displays,really traditional, stacked
crown moldings, pilasters, youknow, the kind of real panel
(16:50):
molding added onto the cabinetryfor details.
Haven't seen that in a long,long time.
So, you know, one display Isaw, you know, very much over
the top with it, but you know,it could be the beginning of
bringing back that uhtraditional detail.
With the countertops, um, likejust looking at different
materials with the countertops,we or I definitely was seeing a
(17:16):
lot of edge treatments that wereway beyond the square um edge
or the, you know, just kind ofthat, you know, I don't even
know what what we call itanymore, but that basic square
edge, east edge, east edge,which was the only thing that
you ever got the count thecountertop manufacturers to do
in the last decade.
There were a ton of OGs anddouble OGs and bull nose with um
(17:41):
different looks, and you know,that that was huge, you know, in
my market when you know, whengranite came into the
marketplace in the 90s, um, hada lot of great um you know
fabricators in my area being aport city.
We were bringing in a lot ofgranite.
And oh, I remember doing somany decorative edge treatments
(18:03):
on my granite.
And um, you know, for the lastdecade we've seen you know just
kind of that square edge.
Every display, I'd have to say,had some edge treatment on
their countertops.
And, you know, and again,they're kind of um in one
display, I found it kind ofinteresting is they actually did
the OG on the bottom edge ofthe um countertop, not the top
(18:25):
edge.
Honey enough, the only time yousaw it is if you were sitting
down, you know, and looking backat it, like you couldn't.
So that yeah, I'm gonna watchthat one to just see, you know,
is it worth the investment?
You know, if you don't, if youdon't really see it.
But there was a lot of um ofedge treatment coming in.
And um, another thing that thata few of the places were
(18:47):
started was starting to showcasewas thermal forming of the
countertop material becausewe're able to get they're able
to get the countertops muchthinner.
Now, this is something when Isay what's old is new again.
You know, I used a lot of thecorion product in um in my
practice, and we'd thermal formthat all the time because you
could just heat it up.
(19:08):
But um, that wasn't somethingthat I had seen for a long, long
time.
And now the countertopmanufacturers with the
porcelains and being able to getdown to one cm thickness in
their countertops, there were alot of them experimenting with
thermal forming the countertops.
So that's going to open up um,you know, a lot of creativity,
(19:31):
which I did see with the Corionproduct, especially in in um,
you know, the first um decade ofthe century, that there were a
lot of designers really playingwith that material and um you
know, heating it up and andgetting into these more organic
shapes, which makes sense thatwe're seeing more organic, it's
not as square and hardeverything.
(19:52):
So uh that's gonna I thinkthat's gonna be a real fun one
to watch.
Uh room details.
So when I, you know, when I'min looking at the the displays
and snapping pictures, it's youknow, it's not you know just
about you know the actualcabinetry and and the
countertop.
I like to look at thebackground.
(20:13):
And this was a year where I wasseeing a lot of traditional
elements in the background, um,specifically at the Kohler, you
know, booth.
They had um uh Studio Mogee,you know, had um a big display
area, and um, you know,everything that she did in there
was um was on the traditionalside, like you know, cased
(20:34):
arches and wide crown moldingsand baseboards and casings and
panel molding and a lot ofdetail um on the walls that kind
of echoed what was going onwith the cabinetry.
Um but it but still a moderntake, like it still felt modern,
but it definitely was bringingthat that um you know
(20:55):
traditional look you know into amodern kitchen.
And um probably you were justnot ignoring the walls anymore
and the ceiling that they'regetting part of part of the
kitchen.
So that I think is going to bea trend for um designers to
watch.
Don't ignore you know thatfifth wall, your ceiling, or
(21:16):
those blank walls, or thosecasings that you know, flat
stock is not you know the endall be all to um you know,
finishing off a room that'slayering in and adding some more
of this detail or texture.
And then um looking at that,like I so I so I would kind of
say overall it was kind ofwhat's old is new again, but
(21:40):
there were a couple of otherthings that I did see that I
felt um was new to the market.
And the first one was appliancecolor.
We have been seeing a lot ofcolor in appliances in the last
five years, so that that's beena real highlight of color.
This year, the color was allmatte, so we you know.
Typically when you're paintinga um in an appliance, the same
(22:04):
like when you're painting a car,there's a glossiness to the
finish.
The m cabinet the appliancemanufacturers, just about all of
them that that I saw wereintroducing matte finishes.
So that's that's going to beinteresting to just to see.
You know, I don't know how itstands up or um, you know, what
process, but you can see thatthey've all been working on it
(22:26):
because almost every upper-endappliance manufacturer display I
had a look look at hadbeautiful colors but in matte
finishes.
And uh now here's something Ithink we got to be watching for.
There were a ton of closetdisplays.
So I'm thinking, is the closetgoing to become that next room
(22:50):
that um you know that thekitchen designer, the cabinet
designer is really going to beable to have fun with.
A little bit of what's old isnew again.
You know, I remember designingLuxe closets, you know, almost
my entire career.
I, you know, I I've always usedkitchen cabinetry and van and
vanity cabinetry and you know,reimagined them into these
(23:14):
deluxe luxe closets.
But um I was kind of a littlebit shocked about how many just
closet manufacturers weredisplaying and like high-end and
um just as tricked out, youknow, as any kitchen.
So that I'm gonna predictthat's gonna be kind of our next
room.
You know, we've had the luxelaundry room, you know, we've
(23:34):
had the home office, we've hadthe media wall, um, we've had
the the pantry.
So um I'm gonna say it's gonnabe the closet, it's gonna be the
next, um, the next big one.
And um, you know, just a coupleof you know, little things, you
know, maybe not a trend, but Iwas at at um one tile um
manufacturer, distributor, andjust something that really
(23:57):
caught my eye was these hugeformat tiles that looked like
wallpaper.
So, you know, here was a wayto, you know, it's it's going to
be an investment and it's good,and it's you know, it's gonna
be a long-term investment, youknow, to put massive floral
tiles, you know, on your walls.
But um, I think it's just theuh technology, it's just getting
(24:17):
so much better for um for ourproducts for them to be able to
print on it that um kind of thenew thing was okay, what can
what can we print onto onto aproduct?
Like even with the tile, Iwould I did pop over to the um
ibiz side, you know, just for acouple of hours, and I saw that
Schluter, who is a ummanufacturer of tile trim
(24:40):
pieces, you could now provide asample to them and they would
custom print your your edgetreatment to match the tile.
So no longer did you just havethe basic uh metals and basic
colors.
Like if you had if you had thattile that was that floral, you
could send a sample to um uh toSchluter manufacturer and have
(25:04):
it printed right onto your umedge trim.
So I thought, you know, that'syou know, the kind of technology
coming back.
And uh the last one that I'vegot here on my list of new stuff
um was going back to thecountertops, and it is the is
showing really thin countertops.
Now, funny enough, um, we couldprobably go that's old as new
(25:27):
again, that uh when I visitedthe um Ural Kachina show in
2010, that was something thatreally struck me was uh so many
of the uh displays showed thesereally thin, like one and two CM
countertops rather than thethree, you know, three to four
CM that that we've been doinghere in North America.
(25:49):
But it's definitely catchingup, and there was a lot of two
CM countertops um on display, alot of thin ones.
And I was in one cabinetmanufacturer that had it, and uh
so um a question I had, youknow, for the the rep that I was
talking to, and going, Well,have you, you know, have you
modified the cabinet boxes toraise them up higher?
(26:10):
Because this counter seems alittle low.
So, you know, it's you know,anything that that we change in
our industry, and they had not,you know, and that's why the
countertop um felt too low.
But you know, the designer, youknow, when you see these new
things, you know, you reallywant to be thinking about them.
And something of, you know, itis a new way of looking at at
the proportion in a kitchen,having these thin countertops,
(26:32):
but you still needfunctionality.
You don't all of a sudden wantto be dropping the height of
your countertops, you know,because you haven't thought
about, you know, everythingbeing pulled together.
So um, you know, that's that.
And then maybe um, you know,the countertop people or the the
um the slab producers are doinga lot of experimenting, and I
(26:53):
saw a lot of texture that washappening.
And I guess they've been ableto figure out how to add texture
to countertops or backsplashesor vertical applications and
still make them um you know easyto maintain because that's you
know you don't want to begetting getting grit in there.
But they were talking a lotabout that in the booth.
So that is kind of my overviewof what I saw.
(27:17):
And uh, you know, I'm surethere's you know other things,
but um, I guess maybe just towrap up uh detail, you know,
looking at you know, some ofthat stuff that was being done
in our industry, you know, 25,30 years ago.
How is it being reinvented andbeing brought back?
Jason Lockhart (27:36):
I love it.
I love it.
So last year, I was justlooking over the notes from last
year.
You touched a lot on though onhow over the years it built up
and last year it was uh you sawit all over the place.
So what did you think about thecolor this year at the show?
Jan Rutgers (27:52):
Um, yeah, it's continuing.
That when I'm in a you knowfairly traditional cabinet
manufacturers display and theyhave a hot pink kitchen, then
then we know that uh color.
Like I saw hot pink, I saw a Isaw mauve or mauve, you know,
kind of that light purpley tone.
(28:13):
Um, I saw like lots of lightgreens and um, you know, navies,
yeah.
Color was everywhere.
And you know, and I'm glad youbring it up, Jason, because in
in uh years past, the color inthe cabinet tree was mostly
coming from the appliancemanufacturers and the plumbing
(28:34):
manufacturers and the countertopmanufacturers sometimes um
using cabinet tree, you know, aspart of their displays, you
know, and they weren't sellingcabinet trees.
So they, you know, they couldthey could take a risk and do
something.
This year I was seeing it withthe cabinet manufacturers.
So that that is a big switchthat you know they're
(28:55):
introducing those finishes andthose those colors into their
offering now, whereas they usedto be just so conservative.
Remind me again, how manypictures did you take?
You know what?
I did count them on close to900.
Jason Lockhart (29:10):
Okay.
And I looked at last year, youtook over 650.
So you are amazing at lookingat the show at a certain
advantage point.
So for the designers out there,because I often get asked, um,
there's so much to see.
How do you organize what yousee over the show?
And if you had somebody new, adesigner that hasn't ever been
(29:32):
to his show or any shows, howwould you advise them to look at
it and take all of this in?
Because it's a lot.
It's it it could be over.
Jan Rutgers (29:40):
It absolutely is a great question because I
actually wrote a blog on this,you know, probably three years
ago.
But here's my strategy is um soI always arrive um to the show
the day before.
And you know, it's and it's alittle basic thing.
You know, the the um the venueis open, like you can't go into
the display, but I go down andget my pass.
(30:01):
I make sure I've got my land,I've got my pass, and I'm ready
to go.
The first day, I always kind ofgo to that outlying pavilion,
typically with um K Biz.
And um, you know, in Las Vegas,they've kind of got South Hall,
which is the big, big hall, andthey've got West Hall.
Um, here in Orlando, they theyhad um, yeah, I think it was
(30:25):
West Hall and North Hall orSouth Hall.
I, you know, I look, I grab, Igrab a catalog that first day
too, so that I look at the map,I look at where everybody is,
and I determined, um, and and Ialways do this with the shows,
that I determine kind of what iskind of the peripheral um hall.
You know, still's got stuff Iwant to see, but maybe doesn't
(30:46):
have the big names, like the bigKohler monogram, uh, you know,
some of the the largermanufacturers, you know,
typically they're all uh jumbledin one hall.
So what I do is I go to thatfirst day, I go to that
peripheral hall because a lot ofpeople go to the big hall the
first day and it's crazycrowded.
So I go over to that other one,I spend the whole day there.
(31:08):
And um, you know, I do.
I have got my phone out withme, and as I'm walking through,
I am taking a you know a lot ofpictures because um I when I go
back, I can kind of look atthem.
But um, and I'm very systematicthat um, you know, I kind of
walk in, I go to the right, andI just do a grid pattern to make
(31:28):
sure that I kind of hiteverything.
The second day, I tend to go tothe big hall.
And uh the big hall is where Iwant to um, you know, just kind
of look at it what you know,everything that's going on, get
the vibe, but I actually stayout of the big booths, the big
popular booths on that daybecause they're crowded as can
be, and it's difficult to get inand see them and get pictures.
(31:51):
So I I get a good grounding onwhat's happening and um on that
uh that same same on that thatfirst day.
I'm able to walk the whole showto be able to see where it is.
But as I said, I don't I don'tgo into Kohler on that first
day.
I don't go into monogram.
And then the last day, becauseeverybody's leaving Wednesday
(32:12):
night and Thursday morning,that's when I'd go and look at
those big booths that I'm reallyinterested in, or that there's
been a buzz.
You know, when you're at ashow, you start to hear, you
know, kind of what the buzz is.
And you know, and it's funnybecause on my Instagram I was
getting I was getting comments.
How did you get pictures?
You know, I was in that booth,I couldn't see anything.
(32:32):
I said, Well, I don't go tothat booth till Thursday
afternoon.
Nobody does Yeah.
So, and then, you know, there'slots going on at a show and
there's dinners and stuff likethat.
But I do come back to my hotelroom, you know, usually the show
closes at four, and maybeyou're going out for dinner at
six, and I will spend an hourflipping through um kind of my
(32:53):
images, and and that just kindof kind of tweaks me on okay,
what am I starting to see?
And I started seeing thatwhat's old as new thing after
the first day.
So then now I'm looking for it.
But um, you know, it it is itis having, you know, having a uh
a plan because I do see a lotof uh first timers getting
(33:14):
really overwhelmed and they'rejust walking around like
zombies, you know, and they justdon't know where to go.
And and I know I'm not gonna bereally popular on this next
one, but I don't like to do ashow in a group.
You know, it is too difficult.
So even when I've takendesigners to uh shows like this,
we get in there, we meet as agroup, and I say, okay, you
(33:35):
know, let's just everybody gooff on their own for an hour.
Um, I want you to go off inyour own, and then I want you to
come, we're gonna meet back,you know, right here in an hour
or an hour and a half, and we'rejust gonna share what we saw.
And I find that that thatdesigners get way more out of
that than a group of eightpeople kind of, you know,
clomping around the show becauseyou're losing somebody or
(33:56):
waiting for somebody.
And um I do typically do theshows on my own.
You know, maybe, maybe mypartner sometime is with me, but
I get to see more andexperience more, you know, kind
of on my own time.
Jason Lockhart (34:09):
I love that.
I love that.
Now, you usually have a blogthat highlights all of this.
Are you gonna have a blog onwhat happened this time as well?
You you may, you may be forcingme since you're asking because
we usually link the blog to theI don't, yeah.
Jan Rutgers (34:26):
I haven't, it's been a very, very busy, uh busy
year, you know, a lot of clientsand a lot of things going on,
and um, you know, the vestibulelearning uh platform is kind of
really taking off, and so I'vebeen focusing on that.
So I don't have it on my agendaright now.
So um, you know, it's um youknow, I appreciate it.
I uh I'm gonna I you know Imight put something together.
(34:47):
Like, you know, I enjoy doingthis, and if I do, I'll uh I'll
send you I'll send you the link.
Jason Lockhart (34:52):
Everyone's gonna have to listen to the podcast.
Absolutely.
That's it.
And I think your approach isabsolutely genius.
Because and I think I it'sfascinating listening to you and
after when you describe becauseI'm from Europe and we don't
(35:13):
have a lot of things that haveto think that you were talking
about the way you talk becauseum working in the color boost
and other boost, and it's sotrue.
It's like the first two daysare complete ma'am, you know,
(35:36):
and it's popular boost, and thenthere's nobody.
So I think that's that's reallythat's really clever.
Jan Rutgers (35:43):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, alsotoo, for you know, for the
individual or for the company,this is a big investment.
Like, you know, this is this isnot a couple hundred bucks for
me, you know, especially for meto fly across the country and
and you know, like literally megetting there, my my 10-hour
commute from the west coast toFlorida turned into 24 hours the
(36:04):
first, you know, the first day.
So, you know, that's aninvestment in time and money and
everything.
So, you know, I you know,definitely if if you're planning
on going or if your company'ssending you, you know, I think
you owe it to yourself to um,you know, to really, you know,
get the most out of it.
Like it is, it's a privilege tobe able to go to a show like
this and um be able toexperience it and make those
(36:27):
those connections.
Jason Lockhart (36:29):
Yeah, now both Jason and I have FOMO because we
both didn't end up going thisyear.
And it's it's kind of nicebecause I'm not a big fan of
Orlando and trying to get aroundduring a picture.
Yeah, it was crazy.
Oh, it's just fun.
I have one um question for youwith regards to just like the
(36:49):
general vibe.
And like as you were talkingwith people, like what what
sense did you guess you readlike the reports of the industry
and so on, but it's like whatwas the general vibe?
Were people excited or um whatwas it like?
Jan Rutgers (37:05):
Do you know what I think the general vibe, and it's
always going to be positive,you know, a show like this,
other than the traffic.
Like you, you, you brought upthat, you know, that you know, I
I can't see K this going backto Orlando like when it was
taking me two hours to get um toa restaurant that was you know
two miles from my hotel, whichwas crazy.
I even had Uber phone me whileI was in an Uber to see if I was
(37:29):
okay because my vehicle hadmoved for several minutes.
So that's you know, that thatjust kind of sums up um the
evenings there.
But you know, I think, youknow, I think the the vibe is
positive.
Maybe the nature, you know, ofwhat I do with with vestibule
learning of of teaching um youknow kitchen designers.
I had a lot of um differentcontacts talking to me about um
(37:54):
you know kind of the industrygoing through this difficult
time of trying to hire uhpeople.
That that probably every almostevery conversation that I had
did revolve around around that.
And it is, it's getting it isdifficult to um to hire quote
unquote experienced people inthis industry because there is
(38:15):
so much going on and there's youknow this chaos of choice and
you know all of these differentchanges and you know all these
all these different things tolearn.
But but you know, I think onthe whole, you know, most of the
people that I talked to, youknow, were were pumped about it.
And um, you know, I you know, Ithink definitely our industry,
you know, is is one that isalways evolving.
(38:38):
And um, you know, the our b Ithink our biggest thing is is
gonna be labor shortages.
Even even with AI, yeah, the AIconversation came up quite a
bit.
And um that's that's definitelygonna be creeping in there, but
we're still gonna need, youknow, we're still gonna need
people to be stuck in ourindustry and and just how we're
gonna attract you know thosebright young minds, you know, to
(39:01):
to the industry and get themtrained and and get them excited
and you know have them you knowhave re rewarding careers like
I've had in the industry.
We'll just kind of keep theconversations going.
And uh um, you know, I thinkwe're back in Vegas again next
year.
So it's truck down to that one.
At least it's an easier, aneasier flight on the from the
(39:22):
West Coast.
But uh yeah, we'll see.
You guys will be there.
Well, I'll go just because youguys will be there.
Jason Lockhart (39:29):
I think we're planning on it at this point,
right?
Yeah.
Yes, yes, we'll be there nexttime.
So so if any of our listenerswant to learn more, how do they
contact?
Jan Rutgers (39:40):
Um, well, they can um it it's a little bit of a
work in the progress right now,but they can pop onto my website
Vestibule, um, which is V-E S TA B U L dot com.
And uh there's contact sheetsthere that that um of the
contact page that you can get ahold of me.
And uh, you know, that's whereI've got my online uh learning
(40:04):
with um with the kitchenindustry.
So that's that would definitelybe the best one.
And I'd love to, yeah, I'd loveto hear from them.
And love, you know, maybe Iwill get a blog.
I haven't written a blog forabout a year because you know,
just of circumstances, and maybeI will get a blog out and and
get people to um you knowcomment on their experience at K
Biz 2026.
Jason Lockhart (40:23):
Awesome.
Well, we always enjoy havingyou for these wrap-ups.
We hope to have you again nextyear as well.
Sounds good.
Sounds good.
So we hope to hear and see youall here in two weeks on design
of the cutscene.
Thank you.
We hope you enjoyed this episodeof Design of Discussion.
And all of the helpfulinformation.
(40:44):
Subscribe to our podcast, leaveus over to you and your
podcast.
We look forward to adding formore information on the podcast
and the more podcasts.
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