April 3, 2024 • 34 mins
Get ready for an enlightening and engaging episode with host Jeff Yan and guest J. T. Torres, Director of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Quinnipiac University.
In this fascinating conversation, we realized how educational approaches are evolving to focus on empowering students through active learning, critical thinking, decision-making skills, and the importance of asking meaningful questions.
Torres shares insights on project-based learning, the power of ePortfolios in making learning visible, and the significance of fostering agency and responsibility in students.
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#EmpowerThroughLearning #CriticalThinkingSkills #ActiveLearning #FutureofEducation #ProjectBasedLearning #ePortfoliosInAction #PersonalizedLearning #AuthenticAssessment #AIinEducation #TransformingEducation #StudentEmpowerment
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hearpart one of my conversation with J.
T.
Torres, Director of the Centerfor Teaching and Learning
at Quinnipiac University.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
(00:23):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
My guest today is JT Torres, Directorof the Center for Teaching and
Learning at Quinnipiac University.
Welcome, JT.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for having me on.
It's a pleasure to speak with you again.
(00:45):
Yes, um, uh, we've had the fortune ofworking with Quinnipiac University Um,
for a number of years and you've beenan instrumental part of, um, um, using,
um, you know, ePortfolios at Quinnipiac.
Um, I'm sure we'll talk a lot more aboutthat later when appropriate, but first
I really want to learn more about you.
(01:07):
Um, I did, uh, I, I know that youhave, um, been, uh, instrumental
in many things, not, not justePortfolio at the university.
You're the director forteaching and learning.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about,um, maybe Quinnipiac University and What
a Center for Teaching and Learning meansfor those who don't know what that is.
(01:31):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
So, I've learned that centers for teachingand learning are very different based
on the institution where they're based.
Uh, so, Quinnipiac, um, prides itself onbeing a professional private institution.
That word professionalcarries a lot of weight.
It means that we are really dedicatedto career readiness and we're also
dedicated to thinking about what it meansto prepare students to not only join.
(01:55):
Uh, the economic force or the jobmarket, um, but to also change it, right?
To have that agency to change it,um, hopefully with the social justice
element in terms of, you know,we're, we're changing our economy.
So it works for everybody, not just thosewith wealth, um, but also how do I make
sure that I can put food on the table?
So I can do that work of change, right?
(02:15):
So it's not, job placement...
It's also professionalizationthat requires a certain amount
of critical thinking skills,creative thinking skills, right?
Again, we're not just matchingpeople to a workforce.
We also want them to take chargeand lead that workforce based on
ethical decisions that they make.
That funnels down into our Centerfor Teaching and Learning in these
(02:35):
pretty ambitious ways and thesepretty interesting ways, right?
So here at Quinnipiac, a lot ofthe work that we do is backward
design is reverse engineered from.
The current market, you know,what are those current jobs?
Um, what are the skillsneeded for those jobs?
For instance, um, we know through surveyslike Glassdoor that curiosity and creative
(02:56):
thinking, a curious mindset and creativethinking are really, really important.
People are saying they want, right.
Our tomorrow's leaders need to beable to look at problems in new
ways, and they need to be curious.
They need to not just follow standardprotocols, especially if we know
those protocols don't work foreverybody, but how do we change those?
So when If we're reverse engineeringand we're designing backwards from
(03:17):
that, the center here, it reallyworks closely with courses to
help align classroom assignments.
Um, I'm really big on authenticassessment, where like, don't
just assess knowledge for thesake of assessing knowledge.
Assess knowledge in the same way thatstudents will be assessed when they are
in their particular fields of study ortheir disciplines or their professions.
Right.
So how can projects becomealigned with the real world?
(03:41):
Um, how can we break down that binarybetween the classroom is one world and
then the real world is another world.
How can the classroom become a real world?
So it's a lot of, um, amakerspace approach, right?
So the teach, the teaching and learningcenter here works with faculty chairs
and program program directors toreflect on what those goals are.
What are we doing?
What we're doing.
And then how do we startmaking those changes?
(04:01):
So it becomes less of a classroomspace and more of a space that
transitions us into that real world.
So a lot of case studies, lots ofproblem solving, there's particular
pedagogical approaches that align witha university like Quinnipiac that calls
itself a professional institution.
Um, and so I, I have to adaptand make sure that, you know, my
training in educational psychologyprovides the relevant resources and
(04:24):
approaches for the context here.
That's lovely.
And I, I think that that's, I'm surewe'll, we'll, we'll have a chance
to talk about, you know, today'ssort of people's percept, general
perception of higher education.
...oh yeah.
You know, um, And there are, I mean,statistically, we have seen a drop
(04:46):
in enrollment, especially in, um, in,uh, community colleges, um, and some
of the numbers are stark, you know,it does not, it's, it's not, it's
not just a slight decrease in some ofit, maybe have kickstarts by COVID or
maybe enhanced by COVID that dropped.
Um, but it's, it's a little bit scary, thegeneral perception that, that exists in,
(05:10):
in, in, you know, for higher education.
I, I sort of, I want to, I want to talka little bit about, I, I, I, I, by the
way, been following a lot of your workthroughout, you know, the years and
I've, I've read some articles, I've beento many of your presentations, so I'm a
little fanboy, fanboying um, you know,and, um, I, I remember that, um, you have,
(05:38):
um, done some work in doing inclusive,um, sort of designing, um, Um, designing
your classroom to be inclusive, designingassignments, designing your whole course,
the nature of the course to be inclusive.
Um, what does that mean?
And, you know, like you talked aboutthis idea of balancing, Hey, you know,
(06:00):
there's workforce development and,you know, trying to make sure that
people can, can, can, can benefitfinancially and, you know, being
able to support themselves, but alsothere's this other part, which is.
Making society better, making changes,making it the way, you know, equipping
them with the ability to do all of that.
(06:20):
And I have this feeling that thisinclusive classroom was something that
I've always been so interested in.
What does that mean?
And what can you talk alittle bit about that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you.
That's, that's one of my favorite topics.
And, um, right now we're doing oursemester kickstart at Quinnipiac.
So, um, about three presentationsthis week on that topic.
(06:40):
Um, so I'll start at what everyone thinksis the starting point, um, of what does
it mean to have classrooms that arediverse, equitable and inclusive, right?
We get.
Stuck on that acronym of DEIbecause of how it's been taken up
in popular press, um, covered inpopular media where we think that
means critical race theory, right?
We think that like every child fromkindergarten to college is being taught
(07:04):
this legal theory of critical race theory,or we think it means that we need to
know the right terminology and we need toalmost compete in the diversity Olympics
to show like how inclusive we are, thatwe have all the right language, right?
And I'm sharing this as a startingpoint because I think, you know,
We look at the climate that we'rein and it's so politically charged.
(07:25):
You know, you're talking about, um,the drop off in college enrollment.
A lot of that is politically motivated.
Like you can look, um, I'm talkingabout, um, some data that's, that I
read from the book, "What We Value",published by Lynn Pasquerella,
president of AAC&U (American Associationof Colleges and Universities.).
And historically, um, from aroundthe sixties, we've seen this drop
(07:47):
off in trust, largely from people whoregister as Republican voters, right?
But that's not the case so much anymore.
Now we're starting to see trust inpublic colleges and universities.
Almost, it's not completely level,but almost level out where even
people who are registered asDemocratic, who historically, again,
um, in recent history, have beensupportive of higher education.
(08:08):
There are issues as well around trustand it's coming around DEI, right?
Like, are we as inclusiveas we say we are?
Um, and so challenges are everywhere.
And I think a lot of itis focusing on competence.
Like, are we competent in DEI?
And then we have, you know, theworkforce is also responding in
these really interesting ways.
Um, when it comes to, you know,ESG or DEI initiatives in certain
(08:30):
corporations, depending on where youare in the company or in the country.
So there's also a skillset that'sexpected by particular employers in
terms of being able to be inclusive.
And so it's a lot of noise and that'sreally what I'm just trying to say.
There's a lot of noise around it.
And for me, when I workwith educators, I see.
Inclusivity as being a very human thing.
(08:52):
For me, it just comes down to can astudent see themself in this class?
And there's so many ways that they canor cannot see themselves in that class.
If I'm, um, a student and I sit downin the class and I look day one, I'm
looking at the syllabus, I'm lookingat the reading list and I notice No, no
scientists, um, are of a Latino heritage.
(09:12):
No scientists share my backstory.
I might be a little bitmore disengaged, right?
Um, I might not be as invested or maybeI still am for other reasons, but now
those are largely external becauseI don't see myself in this space.
Um, and so for me, that's allwe're talking about when we meet
in the inclusive classroom, are wegiving opportunities for everybody
to see themselves in this room?
So I think about the word belonging.
(09:34):
I think that carries a lot of weight.
In terms of how we design an inclusiveclass, are we creating communities
where people feel connected?
Are we creating communities where mygoals and my interests are aligned
with the outcomes of this course?
Um, but the content makes sense tome and has personal relevance, right?
Like I'm just talkingabout human connection.
I'm talking about empathy.
I'm talking about belonging.
I'm talking about being excited to cometo class because I not only feel safe
(09:56):
there, but also encouraged to be mybest self, regardless of my race, my
gender, my identity, my ability, right?
I have that encouragement, andI feel that I can do that here.
Man, I want to be your student.
It's the exactly the type of things thatit feels so much more so just common
sense, you know, like, do you feel engagedas someone that you can see yourself?
(10:21):
You know, you have that very naturalsort of, um, do you feel that warm and
fuzzy feeling about, hey, when I'm here,you know, do I, do I feel that way?
Exactly.
I feel like, oh man, I'm getting shunned.
Even if it's no one said anythingto you in your face about it.
Exactly.
You know, I, and again, mybackground's in educational psychology.
So I see inclusive classrooms as notjust being a trendy moment or not
(10:46):
just being warm and fuzzy, althoughI know what you mean and that's
really important, but there's alsocognitive effects to it, right?
So if I'm in a class and Somehow, insome way, my defensiveness is triggered.
Maybe, again, like, maybe there wasa microaggression, an unintentional
microaggression, or maybe the facultymember can't pronounce my name or
won't pronounce my name, and any kindof defensiveness that's triggered, I
(11:08):
have cortisol production, my amygdalais activated, and it's, I'm worried
more about self preservation than Iam about what's being done in class.
Now, if I get those warm and fuzzyfeelings as you talked about, right, I
get, If the instructor made an intentionalchoice to help me feel welcome, to
help me feel connected, to encourage meexplicitly that I belong here and I can
do what this class is designed for meto do, that defensiveness comes down.
(11:32):
I feel more relaxed.
I am literally, I have opened up morecognitive resources to be available to
do the hard work of learning, right?
It's not just like a trendy movement.
It's not just social justice.
It's literally how our brains work.
And I think that's, I think I've heardyou and others talk about this as being
sort of like growth mindset by design.
(11:52):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
If you can get into that mindset,how could you be receptive of the
kind of things that you're goingto try to try to learn and try
to experience in the classroom?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, so I want to learn a little bitmore about how JT Torres come to be.
(12:12):
Because you have these, I mean,look, you are, you obviously,
you have your PhD in educationpsychology and, you know, a lot of.
There's a lot of knowledge, you know,from sort of the institutions, but you
also are, if I believe I'm right, youare, you are, you are, um, uh, from Cuba
(12:33):
originally or your family's from Cuba?
Is that right?
My family, yeah.
I was born in Miami, Florida.
Yeah.
My family's from Cuba.
What?
Tell us a little bit about what youwere like growing up and how will that
sort of shape you to, to be, you know,um, to, to, to who you are today.
Yeah, I think, um, I'm not sure howcontroversial you want this podcast to be.
(12:54):
Um, but so, um, yeah, so I, I'vehad a rocky road with education.
Um, you know, part of it is becauseof my, my family's background, but.
I actually don't know.
I don't, I'm not going to evenattempt to try to psychoanalyze
myself, but I did have a rocky roadwith education where I largely did
not see myself in it as a child.
(13:16):
Um, I like, not only was I growing up inMiami, Florida, which is a highly, highly
diverse, uh, city, a city that grew indiversity before it was able to grow in
the infrastructure to support diversity.
Right.
Um, so not only did I grow up in thatenvironment, but I also have ADHD.
So sitting down in classroomsfor a very long time as a child
(13:38):
was very, very difficult for me.
Um, so there were lots of callshome to my, to my parents.
Um, you know, there, I had to go tospeech therapy because not only did my
brain work in different ways than mymouth could, but I was also juggling,
right, the broken Spanish at homewith the broken English I was trying
to learn and combining them together.
(13:59):
Yes, I went to speech therapy.
Um, I had all sorts of behavioralissues and episodes in high school
that led to problematic, um, outcomes.
Like, for example, I'lltell this one story.
I, I hit this band in high schoolwhere I was frequently skipping school.
Um, I, I didn't see myself there.
So if I didn't see myself there,then why would I want to go there?
(14:21):
I felt more connected with my friendswhen we would skip school and go
home and play video games, becauseplaying video games, I felt capable.
I was in control of the world.
Even if it was a virtualworld, I had the agency to do
whatever it is I wanted to do.
And so that's what I would dofor a little bit until my mom.
Got a job in the attendanceoffice at the, at the high school.
(14:42):
Wow.
She went, she, she really went for it.
Yeah.
I mean, do you know, do you know how muchtrouble you you're in when your mom has to
do a career change just to like, just tolike, make sure you're, you're in school.
Um, and then, and even then, youknow, like we would drive to school
and I, I went to this large urbanhigh school in central Florida
that looked a lot like a prison.
(15:03):
I mean, there were, there were.
Barbed wire fences around it.
There was a police guardyou had to go into.
It was not a welcoming environment.
And so my mom would drive me intoschool, park in the parking lot.
She would go into the attendanceoffice to start her day.
And then I would justwalk to my friend's car.
We would leave school and then comeback at three o'clock so I can meet
her in front of the attendance officeto get in the car and despite all
(15:23):
that scheming, you would get inthe car and she would still ask me,
she was like, how was school today?
And, you know, I would, I would tryto give her, you know, the normal.
You know, BS answers that we wouldalways give, like, it was fine.
But then, like, after some follow upquestions, she would just call me out and
say, You do realize I work in attendance.
I know you were not at school today.
What is wrong with you?
Um, you know, and I, I, I didn'thave the language to explain to her,
(15:46):
like, why I felt that I had moreagency at my friend's house playing
video games than being at school.
Um, And, and so like these,these challenges happen.
I went to a community college.
Um, I, first semester, I didpretty well, but then I, I
stopped, um, attending college.
I, I, I started working at arestaurant on Disney property.
Um, this is in Orlando, Florida,and started making some good cash
(16:09):
working at a, at this restaurant,and in my very short sighted life
at that moment, I, I could justdo cash and then not do college.
And so I did that for a whileuntil I had this random professor.
I say it's random becauseit was in an elective that I
never really saw myself in.
It was a computer scienceclass and I never really had
aspirations to do computer science.
(16:30):
I was in the class cause I lovedvideo games and someone told me that
I should learn a computer science.
And so.
I was in this class not doing wellin community college and the faculty
member emailed me and said, um,asked me why I don't come to class.
And so I wrote, I was honest and I wroteback and told him what I do and told him
about the video game obsession that I had.
And then he said, can you come to classnext week and then stay after class?
(16:53):
I promise you're not in trouble.
I just want to introduce you to som...
to somebody.
Um, so I did, and he introduced me to agroup of students who were designing their
own games, programming their own games.
He's like, they're forming a club.
Why don't you just hang out with them?
And that changed everything.
Like, once I realized that my interestcould connect with what I was learning,
even though I didn't become a computerscientist, I never took another computer
(17:16):
science class again, but that facultymember, through that connection, um,
helped me get into creative writing.
And that's what I majored in asan undergrad, creative writing.
And then I became fascinated withthe story that I'm telling, um, in
the video games that we were, youknow, with my group of friends.
We're writing video games,we're designing them.
A lot of them, like 90 percent ofthem, never came to fruition, but just
(17:37):
the thinking through what this gamewould be and what these stories are.
I became very fascinated with, um, thecognitive effects of storytelling, um,
how that shapes our identities, how I'ma totally different person in two years
because of my new love of storytelling.
Um, and then that took me from theMFA inquiry to writing to Ed Sykes.
It was just, it was a blur.
It was like a montage.
(17:58):
Like imagine you're watching a movie,just a montage of clips to some pop music
from that moment of constantly gettingin trouble, constantly trying my best
to get out of the education system, tostaying in it for the rest of my life
because I realized that's where I belong.
Because of this one random encounterwhere someone said, that thing you're
interested in, it matters here.
That's, that's just amazing.
(18:19):
That's awesome.
What was.
What was the, your favorite video game orgames when you were to, you know, doing,
playing that with your friends house?
Oh, easy, easy.
Oh, yeah.
Legend of Zelda, for sure.
Legend of Zelda.
And the, and the reason, right,um, there's so, if you have any
experience with Legend of Zelda,it's a lot of implied storytelling.
(18:41):
There's no voice acting in the game.
It's a lot of reading.
Um, there are kind of episodicevents through this epic narrative.
That you piece together in yourown mind, um, I think this is true.
I think the main character of Zelda, likeZelda's the princess that you ultimately
save, the game's named after her, butthe character you control is named Link.
The reason, I think, the reason his nameis Link is because that protagonist was
(19:04):
ultimately designed for the player toproject themself into that protagonist.
So no matter, you know, Link is kind ofandrogynous, um, he's kind of, you know,
Ambivalent and who this character is,and that's by design because the whole
idea I think from Nintendo was that youwould see yourself in this character
and that's, that fascination for me, um,just completely captured all my interest.
(19:27):
And, and I could imagine that many ofyou are, I mean, I'm not, I don't know
what the, what the competition is.
So, so, so if you weren't doingthat, which you just described
with so much passion, right?
I think anyone can.
Here, and if you are watching the video,you can like literally see him light
up, like talking about Legend of Zelda.
(19:50):
Um, but, so what's thecompetition on the other end?
In the classroom, whatwould you be doing instead?
Instead of playing Legend of Zelda?
Yeah.
Yeah, um, yeah, this might be the goodtransition into ePortfolios, but like,
doing meaningless, uh, Assessments, right?
Like doing meaningless work,like work that I don't see the
relevance in my, in my life, right?
Um, at that time, at that time, right?
(20:11):
And, um, I learned how tomake those connections later.
And then I also was fortunate enoughto have faculty members who explicitly
made those connections for me.
Like this, um, computer scienceprofessor I had years ago.
But yeah, the alternative to avideo game, to someone like Link,
who lets me project myself intothe environment is, do busy work.
Um, you know, how often have we beentold in school, you need to know this
(20:34):
in case you need to know it, right?
Like it's no math.
Um, you don't need to like algebra,for instance, it's like, just in
case you might need to know algebra.
Like I've never used algebra.
Like maybe I have, I don't know.
Like I didn't retain enough.
My background's in English languagearts, so sorry for the, the math
shade that I just threw there.
But, um, right.
It's, it's, if we don't.
(20:54):
Use it if you don't seethat relevance, right?
Then we don't practice it.
We don't incorporate it into our memory.
And yes, so much of educationhas always been just in case.
So this approach, like video games, havedirectly impacted how I approach education
and how I approach the Center for Teachingand Learning, where I want everything to
be just in time, not just in case, right?
(21:15):
I want people to be so immersed in themoment that when they run up against
the challenge and they don't knowhow to respond to that challenge, The
faculty member swoops in with, here'swhat you need to know right now.
And then I can incorporate that.
Here's what I need to knowto overcome this challenge
that develops in the schema.
Right.
That develops in the long term memory.
That's what we call active learning.
And that's also what we call agency.
(21:39):
You are awesome.
Oh, you're awesome.
Thank you.
Well, I'm awesome.
Just listening.
I feel it.
I love that.
Um, you, you are talking about, youknow, engaging students and doing things
that, that mean something for them.
You know, things that arelike, you know, their projects.
(22:00):
There are, there are things that arenot, you know, I actually, I don't know
whether you hear this a lot, but I seethis a lot, which is people talk about
project-based learning, but there arereally sort of a couple of different
levels of project-based learning.
I think there's like the project-basedlearning where someone designed the
whole project to just every stepthat you are supposed to go through.
(22:21):
To me, that's not really a project.
It's kind of better than like thetruly non project-based learning, but
it's not really like a real project.
It's not a project thatyou, you get to be part of.
You're just like, you know,almost like following Legos.
Like, step one, step two, step three.
Look, it's not bad.
But, it's like way betterthan that in my mind.
(22:44):
Absolutely.
And, and so, can you talk a littlebit about project-based learning
or these kind of more, You know,active learning is a more, more,
much more engaged kind of learning,the just in time kind of learning
that, that, that you were talking.
Can you give us some examples?
And I think you had, we weretalking, you were about to talk
about potentially ePortfolio.
(23:05):
Please feel free to throw that in there.
Um, how, what's an example of that?
What does it look like in thereal classroom for someone who,
you know, so far has said, allright, this is abstract idea.
Yeah, of course.
You're telling me.
You know, dessert tastes good.
I get it, but give me a real dessert.
Describe it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I think a lot of it comes down tothe gradual release of responsibility.
(23:29):
I know that's a contested term ineducational spaces, but I think it's
helpful, um, as a heuristic to think abouthow much as faculty are we willing to
gradually release of our responsibilityover the learning environment,
over the students, over the course.
Um, we want that to be gradual andwant that to be part of a process.
If I do the single assignment prompt asyou just described it, where I lay out
(23:51):
every single step and students get thatup front, they're just following a script.
I have not released anykind of responsibility.
I've kept it all, I've marked it all down.
Um, students don't get muchof a choice in the matter.
That word choice is the,is the secret sauce.
That's key, right?
We want multiple opportunities inproject-based learning, um, active
learning, flipped classrooms, no matterwhat the model is, no matter what the
(24:14):
fad is, um, I think of these, thesepedagogical terms like diets, right?
Like a new diet comes out and thenpeople follow it for a little bit.
They fall off the diet, the same dietcomes out, but it's repackaged under a
different name and then everybody jumps onit again, but it's still the same thing.
Um, and that's essentially what we'retalking about with active learning.
It's.
How many opportunities dostudents have to make decisions
(24:36):
based on what they're learning?
They don't get a lot of opportunitiesto make decisions, right?
Like we tell them howthey're going to be assessed.
We tell them what assignments to complete.
We tell them what to know.
And part of that is justified becauseyes, we are the content experts.
We know what they should know.
And you, it kind of defies thedefinition of being a student.
If you already know what you need to know.
That's why it's a gradual release ofresponsibility and it's more Um, it's
(24:59):
more collaborative than it is linear.
Now, what this looks like, I thinkAI has actually really helped us
clarify what this looks like for,because of chat GPT, for example,
um, the single assignment prompt.
It's dead.
It has to be dead by now, right?
If you're a student in my class and Igive you that single assignment prompt
that tells you everything you shoulddo step by step, all you have to do
(25:22):
is copy and paste that in the chatGPT and you'll get your final product.
But if I take that single assignmentprompt and I break it up, and I say,
instead of having one prompt or onedescription, we're going to go through
this in phases and steps, like step one.
Decide a topic for your project.
That's a lot of cognitive work.
We overlooked that.
We think because, you know, we've pursuedour interests as faculty, as scholars.
(25:43):
We've pursued our interests for so longthat interest is second nature to us.
We don't remember what it's like forme and, you know, being that video game
player who was skipping school to notrealize that my interests mattered here.
That takes a lot of cognitive andsocio-emotional work to know, you know,
what counts and what's included anddo I feel safe enough to include that.
So, choosing a topic and having people,having students have time to decide
(26:05):
what they would like to explore.
That takes feedback, that takescommunity, that takes process.
Once they have that topic, maybeasking them for a justification.
Why that topic?
What about your lived experiencehas led you to this topic?
The same way you asked me, um, how did J.
T.
Torres came to be?
I literally asked my students that.
Almost the second week of the semesterwhen they're deciding their topics.
How did you arrive here in this room?
(26:26):
Why did you select this topic andwhat are you hoping to do with it?
Lots of thinking with that.
They don't know what's coming next.
They don't know that this topic isgoing to actually outline their semester
project is going to become their capstone.
It's going to become their career.
They don't have to think about that.
It's right here, right nowin this moment, what matters.
And then breaking that down.
Okay, well now you have a topic.
Now you've told your life story.
(26:47):
Next thing we need to know as scholarsis what's been written about it, right?
Like what, What is theliterature out there?
What's the landscape?
What are the theories?
What's the evidence?
And then doing some kind of literaturereview and gathering, um, information and
sources with or without AI and chat GPT.
This is where ePortfolio comesin really, really handy because
it makes learning visible.
It makes that process visible as adigital story that we can visually see.
(27:10):
And maybe with hyperlinks and videosand all these modalities to just
deepen our engagement with the topic.
And, and then from thatliterature review, right?
Like, all right, now wehave all these sources.
What did you notice as themissing elements, right?
Like, this is what we claimthat to know about this topic.
Like, let's say someonechooses climate justice.
Um, and we know that, um, there aremuch higher rates of pollution or
(27:33):
ecological disaster around communitiesof color or communities who are
living in low, um, income, um, areas.
And so if we know that to be true,then what's the missing element?
What can we do?
To advance this conversation toprovide some kind of social change
based on this knowledge, right?
And so we're just taking it step by step.
I've thrown away the singleassignment description.
(27:54):
I don't use it at all anymore.
And I was, I was not using itbefore AI, but definitely not now.
Um, because.
I want students to stay on their toes.
I don't want them to knowexactly what's coming next.
I like that element of surprise anddramatic tension since I pull from
my experience as a creative writer.
But also, if they don't know what'scoming next, they can't game the system.
And if, and that fact that thatsuspense is there and that tense,
(28:16):
That, that tension is there.
That also means engagement andinterest and curiosity are there.
I love that.
It is basically thinking ofclasses like playing a video game.
It's just Yep, exactly.
Awesome.
That's, so like nowit's pretty transparent.
Like, why I do what I do.
It's all because of Legend of Zelda.
Well, it all goes down to the Thereis something that I, I want to
(28:36):
circle back to that I, I just love.
Um, you know, you had From the veryget go, you talked about Quinnipiac
being a professional school that caresabout students that can come out to
change society, to make changes tothe world, right, in meaningful ways.
Um, I think that this is a big partof something that I, I see in, in
(29:01):
all different kind of contexts.
Um, when I, you know, a lot of people talkabout critical thinking skills, you know.
Oftentimes critical thinking skills,people are referring to almost as
a, as a problem solving skills.
It's like, yeah, the questions,how do you get to the answer?
And I think that there's that criticalmaking skills that Questions forming
(29:25):
skills that actually, I think somepeople can easily, easily argue that's
actually part of critical thinking aswell, but that's not how it usually
translates into the classroom.
Oftentimes, you know, it's like, here'sall the questions you get to answer,
but what I really love about what you'redoing is, no, no, no, no, hold on.
You are coming with the questions andyou're answering them because if they
(29:48):
don't get a chance to ask questions,how, how are they going to be able to.
Feel the agency and the responsibilityand the rights to go on and make
changes to the, in the world.
Exactly.
Cause if they, they'realways like, no, no, no.
The question to be asked,you just have to answer it.
Well, hold on a minute.
(30:08):
Who gets to ask the questions?
Exactly.
Right.
Do you just like, doesquestions just always exist?
There's just like facts, you know,somewhere in the air, we can just
go in and answer it, it doesn't,it doesn't work like that, right?
Someone's actually comingup with the questions.
It's in the view.
If everyone's just answering, you know,um, answering them, it's just half of
the, it's just half the experience.
(30:30):
To me, that's just not good, you know?
Exactly, exactly.
And you're also definingcritical thinking really well.
Um, and I say that because I, I knowthat the definition for critical
thinking is very subjective.
Um, APA has one definition.
Um, if you look at criticalpedagogy and critical scholars,
they have a different definition.
Definition that focuses more oncritiquing systems of power, right?
So it's, it's all over the place.
(30:51):
Um, but I think one of that universalelements is that ability to ask questions.
Um, and that is, and I think that issomething that we take for granted.
I teach a lot of first yearcourses, first year writing.
Um, I really, really love thefirst year experience of higher
education because it's this massivetransition for human beings.
Um, not just for students, just for humansto take, to embark on this new journey.
(31:13):
Regardless of whether they're traditionalstudents and they're, um, exploring
independence for the first time, orif they're students who are making
career changes, students returningfrom, um, returning from military
service, or students transitioning.
Um, from prison back into thecommunity, um, these populations are
going through massive transformation.
So I love this identity because howcan you not be full of questions in
(31:37):
this massive transformative moment?
But teaching first year courses, onething that I have found is When I, when
I first started teaching, I would come inright away, day one, and the introduction
to the course, our icebreaker was, whatquestion do you have about the world?
What questions do youhave about the world?
At first, it was just silence, right?
Like, it was almost like people werewaiting for me to tell them what questions
(31:58):
they should have about the world andhow I've had to learn to scaffold that
Even that process in terms of first,you start with some kind of narrative.
Like, who are you and why are you here?
All right.
Based on that, what questionsdo you have about the world?
Or what was your past experienceright before this one?
Um, where were you working?
Where were you living?
Who were you living with?
What questions do you have based on that?
But it had to provide some kindof context or starting point
(32:19):
because we don't offer a lot ofopportunities to ask those questions.
And that is a fundamentalelement of critical thinking.
And there's also a politics to it, right?
So I've, um.
I showed this example, um, when I, whenI taught, um, Environmental Literacy, um,
in, at Quinnipiac in our InterdisciplinaryStudies program, um, The politics
(32:41):
of, as you said, who gets to ask aquestion is latent with power, right?
Who has the power to ask aquestion is very different, right?
Like that's, that's notthe same for everyone.
And we could see those politics play outin terms of certain dominant systems.
Preferring one question over another.
So the example that I share withmy class is the green revolution.
Um, in the sixties, where we, where wefigured out, um, how to mass produce
(33:05):
food, because the question we wereasking was, how do we feed the world?
Now, if you look behind the scenes,who was asking that question, a lot
of it was the large agriculturalindustry who wanted to increase profits.
And so feeding the world more cheaply.
Incentive, but the rest of us heardthat question of social justice.
We were like, yeah, weshould feed the world.
(33:26):
But what we know about the introductionof synthetic fertilizers and all
these harmful farming techniques iswe actually created a more dangerous.
Ecological Environment, and I use theword ecological to say like not just
for the soil, but also for the kindsof foods we were creating, which were
much more process based, much moresugar based, much more carb based, and
we actually introduced new problemsthat weren't there because we were
(33:50):
asking a very profit seeking questionrather than a truly equitable question.
Here's a preview of what's coming up nextin part two of my conversation with J.
T.
Torres, Director of the Centerfor Teaching and Learning
at Quinnipiac University.
You know, first thing, plagiarismis older than AI, right?
Like, we know that that this hasbeen a concern for many years, um,
(34:14):
for everybody, and this goes back toour, our relationship with assessment
that's more about accountabilitythan it is about improvement, right?
And, and it's not.
We haven't been so concerned with, letme assess where you are, low stakes, so
I can see where you are, so I can helpyou improve wherever you are, right?
It's always been, let me assess whereyou are because this assessment is going
(34:35):
to have implications for your financialaid, for your scholarship, for your
career, for your ability to say it.
Like we just create all thesepressures that we inadvertently
message to students, you better passregardless of how you pass, right?
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hearpart one of my conversation with J.
T.
Torres, Director of the Centerfor Teaching and Learning
at Quinnipiac University.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
(00:23):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
My guest today is JT Torres, Directorof the Center for Teaching and
Learning at Quinnipiac University.
Welcome, JT.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for having me on.
It's a pleasure to speak with you again.
(00:45):
Yes, um, uh, we've had the fortune ofworking with Quinnipiac University Um,
for a number of years and you've beenan instrumental part of, um, um, using,
um, you know, ePortfolios at Quinnipiac.
Um, I'm sure we'll talk a lot more aboutthat later when appropriate, but first
I really want to learn more about you.
(01:07):
Um, I did, uh, I, I know that youhave, um, been, uh, instrumental
in many things, not, not justePortfolio at the university.
You're the director forteaching and learning.
Why don't you tell us a little bit about,um, maybe Quinnipiac University and What
a Center for Teaching and Learning meansfor those who don't know what that is.
(01:31):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
So, I've learned that centers for teachingand learning are very different based
on the institution where they're based.
Uh, so, Quinnipiac, um, prides itself onbeing a professional private institution.
That word professionalcarries a lot of weight.
It means that we are really dedicatedto career readiness and we're also
dedicated to thinking about what it meansto prepare students to not only join.
(01:55):
Uh, the economic force or the jobmarket, um, but to also change it, right?
To have that agency to change it,um, hopefully with the social justice
element in terms of, you know,we're, we're changing our economy.
So it works for everybody, not just thosewith wealth, um, but also how do I make
sure that I can put food on the table?
So I can do that work of change, right?
(02:15):
So it's not, job placement...
It's also professionalizationthat requires a certain amount
of critical thinking skills,creative thinking skills, right?
Again, we're not just matchingpeople to a workforce.
We also want them to take chargeand lead that workforce based on
ethical decisions that they make.
That funnels down into our Centerfor Teaching and Learning in these
(02:35):
pretty ambitious ways and thesepretty interesting ways, right?
So here at Quinnipiac, a lot ofthe work that we do is backward
design is reverse engineered from.
The current market, you know,what are those current jobs?
Um, what are the skillsneeded for those jobs?
For instance, um, we know through surveyslike Glassdoor that curiosity and creative
(02:56):
thinking, a curious mindset and creativethinking are really, really important.
People are saying they want, right.
Our tomorrow's leaders need to beable to look at problems in new
ways, and they need to be curious.
They need to not just follow standardprotocols, especially if we know
those protocols don't work foreverybody, but how do we change those?
So when If we're reverse engineeringand we're designing backwards from
(03:17):
that, the center here, it reallyworks closely with courses to
help align classroom assignments.
Um, I'm really big on authenticassessment, where like, don't
just assess knowledge for thesake of assessing knowledge.
Assess knowledge in the same way thatstudents will be assessed when they are
in their particular fields of study ortheir disciplines or their professions.
Right.
So how can projects becomealigned with the real world?
(03:41):
Um, how can we break down that binarybetween the classroom is one world and
then the real world is another world.
How can the classroom become a real world?
So it's a lot of, um, amakerspace approach, right?
So the teach, the teaching and learningcenter here works with faculty chairs
and program program directors toreflect on what those goals are.
What are we doing?
What we're doing.
And then how do we startmaking those changes?
(04:01):
So it becomes less of a classroomspace and more of a space that
transitions us into that real world.
So a lot of case studies, lots ofproblem solving, there's particular
pedagogical approaches that align witha university like Quinnipiac that calls
itself a professional institution.
Um, and so I, I have to adaptand make sure that, you know, my
training in educational psychologyprovides the relevant resources and
(04:24):
approaches for the context here.
That's lovely.
And I, I think that that's, I'm surewe'll, we'll, we'll have a chance
to talk about, you know, today'ssort of people's percept, general
perception of higher education.
...oh yeah.
You know, um, And there are, I mean,statistically, we have seen a drop
(04:46):
in enrollment, especially in, um, in,uh, community colleges, um, and some
of the numbers are stark, you know,it does not, it's, it's not, it's
not just a slight decrease in some ofit, maybe have kickstarts by COVID or
maybe enhanced by COVID that dropped.
Um, but it's, it's a little bit scary, thegeneral perception that, that exists in,
(05:10):
in, in, you know, for higher education.
I, I sort of, I want to, I want to talka little bit about, I, I, I, I, by the
way, been following a lot of your workthroughout, you know, the years and
I've, I've read some articles, I've beento many of your presentations, so I'm a
little fanboy, fanboying um, you know,and, um, I, I remember that, um, you have,
(05:38):
um, done some work in doing inclusive,um, sort of designing, um, Um, designing
your classroom to be inclusive, designingassignments, designing your whole course,
the nature of the course to be inclusive.
Um, what does that mean?
And, you know, like you talked aboutthis idea of balancing, Hey, you know,
(06:00):
there's workforce development and,you know, trying to make sure that
people can, can, can, can benefitfinancially and, you know, being
able to support themselves, but alsothere's this other part, which is.
Making society better, making changes,making it the way, you know, equipping
them with the ability to do all of that.
(06:20):
And I have this feeling that thisinclusive classroom was something that
I've always been so interested in.
What does that mean?
And what can you talk alittle bit about that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you.
That's, that's one of my favorite topics.
And, um, right now we're doing oursemester kickstart at Quinnipiac.
So, um, about three presentationsthis week on that topic.
(06:40):
Um, so I'll start at what everyone thinksis the starting point, um, of what does
it mean to have classrooms that arediverse, equitable and inclusive, right?
We get.
Stuck on that acronym of DEIbecause of how it's been taken up
in popular press, um, covered inpopular media where we think that
means critical race theory, right?
We think that like every child fromkindergarten to college is being taught
(07:04):
this legal theory of critical race theory,or we think it means that we need to
know the right terminology and we need toalmost compete in the diversity Olympics
to show like how inclusive we are, thatwe have all the right language, right?
And I'm sharing this as a startingpoint because I think, you know,
We look at the climate that we'rein and it's so politically charged.
(07:25):
You know, you're talking about, um,the drop off in college enrollment.
A lot of that is politically motivated.
Like you can look, um, I'm talkingabout, um, some data that's, that I
read from the book, "What We Value",published by Lynn Pasquerella,
president of AAC&U (American Associationof Colleges and Universities.).
And historically, um, from aroundthe sixties, we've seen this drop
(07:47):
off in trust, largely from people whoregister as Republican voters, right?
But that's not the case so much anymore.
Now we're starting to see trust inpublic colleges and universities.
Almost, it's not completely level,but almost level out where even
people who are registered asDemocratic, who historically, again,
um, in recent history, have beensupportive of higher education.
(08:08):
There are issues as well around trustand it's coming around DEI, right?
Like, are we as inclusiveas we say we are?
Um, and so challenges are everywhere.
And I think a lot of itis focusing on competence.
Like, are we competent in DEI?
And then we have, you know, theworkforce is also responding in
these really interesting ways.
Um, when it comes to, you know,ESG or DEI initiatives in certain
(08:30):
corporations, depending on where youare in the company or in the country.
So there's also a skillset that'sexpected by particular employers in
terms of being able to be inclusive.
And so it's a lot of noise and that'sreally what I'm just trying to say.
There's a lot of noise around it.
And for me, when I workwith educators, I see.
Inclusivity as being a very human thing.
(08:52):
For me, it just comes down to can astudent see themself in this class?
And there's so many ways that they canor cannot see themselves in that class.
If I'm, um, a student and I sit downin the class and I look day one, I'm
looking at the syllabus, I'm lookingat the reading list and I notice No, no
scientists, um, are of a Latino heritage.
(09:12):
No scientists share my backstory.
I might be a little bitmore disengaged, right?
Um, I might not be as invested or maybeI still am for other reasons, but now
those are largely external becauseI don't see myself in this space.
Um, and so for me, that's allwe're talking about when we meet
in the inclusive classroom, are wegiving opportunities for everybody
to see themselves in this room?
So I think about the word belonging.
(09:34):
I think that carries a lot of weight.
In terms of how we design an inclusiveclass, are we creating communities
where people feel connected?
Are we creating communities where mygoals and my interests are aligned
with the outcomes of this course?
Um, but the content makes sense tome and has personal relevance, right?
Like I'm just talkingabout human connection.
I'm talking about empathy.
I'm talking about belonging.
I'm talking about being excited to cometo class because I not only feel safe
(09:56):
there, but also encouraged to be mybest self, regardless of my race, my
gender, my identity, my ability, right?
I have that encouragement, andI feel that I can do that here.
Man, I want to be your student.
It's the exactly the type of things thatit feels so much more so just common
sense, you know, like, do you feel engagedas someone that you can see yourself?
(10:21):
You know, you have that very naturalsort of, um, do you feel that warm and
fuzzy feeling about, hey, when I'm here,you know, do I, do I feel that way?
Exactly.
I feel like, oh man, I'm getting shunned.
Even if it's no one said anythingto you in your face about it.
Exactly.
You know, I, and again, mybackground's in educational psychology.
So I see inclusive classrooms as notjust being a trendy moment or not
(10:46):
just being warm and fuzzy, althoughI know what you mean and that's
really important, but there's alsocognitive effects to it, right?
So if I'm in a class and Somehow, insome way, my defensiveness is triggered.
Maybe, again, like, maybe there wasa microaggression, an unintentional
microaggression, or maybe the facultymember can't pronounce my name or
won't pronounce my name, and any kindof defensiveness that's triggered, I
(11:08):
have cortisol production, my amygdalais activated, and it's, I'm worried
more about self preservation than Iam about what's being done in class.
Now, if I get those warm and fuzzyfeelings as you talked about, right, I
get, If the instructor made an intentionalchoice to help me feel welcome, to
help me feel connected, to encourage meexplicitly that I belong here and I can
do what this class is designed for meto do, that defensiveness comes down.
(11:32):
I feel more relaxed.
I am literally, I have opened up morecognitive resources to be available to
do the hard work of learning, right?
It's not just like a trendy movement.
It's not just social justice.
It's literally how our brains work.
And I think that's, I think I've heardyou and others talk about this as being
sort of like growth mindset by design.
(11:52):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
If you can get into that mindset,how could you be receptive of the
kind of things that you're goingto try to try to learn and try
to experience in the classroom?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Um, so I want to learn a little bitmore about how JT Torres come to be.
(12:12):
Because you have these, I mean,look, you are, you obviously,
you have your PhD in educationpsychology and, you know, a lot of.
There's a lot of knowledge, you know,from sort of the institutions, but you
also are, if I believe I'm right, youare, you are, you are, um, uh, from Cuba
(12:33):
originally or your family's from Cuba?
Is that right?
My family, yeah.
I was born in Miami, Florida.
Yeah.
My family's from Cuba.
What?
Tell us a little bit about what youwere like growing up and how will that
sort of shape you to, to be, you know,um, to, to, to who you are today.
Yeah, I think, um, I'm not sure howcontroversial you want this podcast to be.
(12:54):
Um, but so, um, yeah, so I, I'vehad a rocky road with education.
Um, you know, part of it is becauseof my, my family's background, but.
I actually don't know.
I don't, I'm not going to evenattempt to try to psychoanalyze
myself, but I did have a rocky roadwith education where I largely did
not see myself in it as a child.
(13:16):
Um, I like, not only was I growing up inMiami, Florida, which is a highly, highly
diverse, uh, city, a city that grew indiversity before it was able to grow in
the infrastructure to support diversity.
Right.
Um, so not only did I grow up in thatenvironment, but I also have ADHD.
So sitting down in classroomsfor a very long time as a child
(13:38):
was very, very difficult for me.
Um, so there were lots of callshome to my, to my parents.
Um, you know, there, I had to go tospeech therapy because not only did my
brain work in different ways than mymouth could, but I was also juggling,
right, the broken Spanish at homewith the broken English I was trying
to learn and combining them together.
(13:59):
Yes, I went to speech therapy.
Um, I had all sorts of behavioralissues and episodes in high school
that led to problematic, um, outcomes.
Like, for example, I'lltell this one story.
I, I hit this band in high schoolwhere I was frequently skipping school.
Um, I, I didn't see myself there.
So if I didn't see myself there,then why would I want to go there?
(14:21):
I felt more connected with my friendswhen we would skip school and go
home and play video games, becauseplaying video games, I felt capable.
I was in control of the world.
Even if it was a virtualworld, I had the agency to do
whatever it is I wanted to do.
And so that's what I would dofor a little bit until my mom.
Got a job in the attendanceoffice at the, at the high school.
(14:42):
Wow.
She went, she, she really went for it.
Yeah.
I mean, do you know, do you know how muchtrouble you you're in when your mom has to
do a career change just to like, just tolike, make sure you're, you're in school.
Um, and then, and even then, youknow, like we would drive to school
and I, I went to this large urbanhigh school in central Florida
that looked a lot like a prison.
(15:03):
I mean, there were, there were.
Barbed wire fences around it.
There was a police guardyou had to go into.
It was not a welcoming environment.
And so my mom would drive me intoschool, park in the parking lot.
She would go into the attendanceoffice to start her day.
And then I would justwalk to my friend's car.
We would leave school and then comeback at three o'clock so I can meet
her in front of the attendance officeto get in the car and despite all
(15:23):
that scheming, you would get inthe car and she would still ask me,
she was like, how was school today?
And, you know, I would, I would tryto give her, you know, the normal.
You know, BS answers that we wouldalways give, like, it was fine.
But then, like, after some follow upquestions, she would just call me out and
say, You do realize I work in attendance.
I know you were not at school today.
What is wrong with you?
Um, you know, and I, I, I didn'thave the language to explain to her,
(15:46):
like, why I felt that I had moreagency at my friend's house playing
video games than being at school.
Um, And, and so like these,these challenges happen.
I went to a community college.
Um, I, first semester, I didpretty well, but then I, I
stopped, um, attending college.
I, I, I started working at arestaurant on Disney property.
Um, this is in Orlando, Florida,and started making some good cash
(16:09):
working at a, at this restaurant,and in my very short sighted life
at that moment, I, I could justdo cash and then not do college.
And so I did that for a whileuntil I had this random professor.
I say it's random becauseit was in an elective that I
never really saw myself in.
It was a computer scienceclass and I never really had
aspirations to do computer science.
(16:30):
I was in the class cause I lovedvideo games and someone told me that
I should learn a computer science.
And so.
I was in this class not doing wellin community college and the faculty
member emailed me and said, um,asked me why I don't come to class.
And so I wrote, I was honest and I wroteback and told him what I do and told him
about the video game obsession that I had.
And then he said, can you come to classnext week and then stay after class?
(16:53):
I promise you're not in trouble.
I just want to introduce you to som...
to somebody.
Um, so I did, and he introduced me to agroup of students who were designing their
own games, programming their own games.
He's like, they're forming a club.
Why don't you just hang out with them?
And that changed everything.
Like, once I realized that my interestcould connect with what I was learning,
even though I didn't become a computerscientist, I never took another computer
(17:16):
science class again, but that facultymember, through that connection, um,
helped me get into creative writing.
And that's what I majored in asan undergrad, creative writing.
And then I became fascinated withthe story that I'm telling, um, in
the video games that we were, youknow, with my group of friends.
We're writing video games,we're designing them.
A lot of them, like 90 percent ofthem, never came to fruition, but just
(17:37):
the thinking through what this gamewould be and what these stories are.
I became very fascinated with, um, thecognitive effects of storytelling, um,
how that shapes our identities, how I'ma totally different person in two years
because of my new love of storytelling.
Um, and then that took me from theMFA inquiry to writing to Ed Sykes.
It was just, it was a blur.
It was like a montage.
(17:58):
Like imagine you're watching a movie,just a montage of clips to some pop music
from that moment of constantly gettingin trouble, constantly trying my best
to get out of the education system, tostaying in it for the rest of my life
because I realized that's where I belong.
Because of this one random encounterwhere someone said, that thing you're
interested in, it matters here.
That's, that's just amazing.
(18:19):
That's awesome.
What was.
What was the, your favorite video game orgames when you were to, you know, doing,
playing that with your friends house?
Oh, easy, easy.
Oh, yeah.
Legend of Zelda, for sure.
Legend of Zelda.
And the, and the reason, right,um, there's so, if you have any
experience with Legend of Zelda,it's a lot of implied storytelling.
(18:41):
There's no voice acting in the game.
It's a lot of reading.
Um, there are kind of episodicevents through this epic narrative.
That you piece together in yourown mind, um, I think this is true.
I think the main character of Zelda, likeZelda's the princess that you ultimately
save, the game's named after her, butthe character you control is named Link.
The reason, I think, the reason his nameis Link is because that protagonist was
(19:04):
ultimately designed for the player toproject themself into that protagonist.
So no matter, you know, Link is kind ofandrogynous, um, he's kind of, you know,
Ambivalent and who this character is,and that's by design because the whole
idea I think from Nintendo was that youwould see yourself in this character
and that's, that fascination for me, um,just completely captured all my interest.
(19:27):
And, and I could imagine that many ofyou are, I mean, I'm not, I don't know
what the, what the competition is.
So, so, so if you weren't doingthat, which you just described
with so much passion, right?
I think anyone can.
Here, and if you are watching the video,you can like literally see him light
up, like talking about Legend of Zelda.
(19:50):
Um, but, so what's thecompetition on the other end?
In the classroom, whatwould you be doing instead?
Instead of playing Legend of Zelda?
Yeah.
Yeah, um, yeah, this might be the goodtransition into ePortfolios, but like,
doing meaningless, uh, Assessments, right?
Like doing meaningless work,like work that I don't see the
relevance in my, in my life, right?
Um, at that time, at that time, right?
(20:11):
And, um, I learned how tomake those connections later.
And then I also was fortunate enoughto have faculty members who explicitly
made those connections for me.
Like this, um, computer scienceprofessor I had years ago.
But yeah, the alternative to avideo game, to someone like Link,
who lets me project myself intothe environment is, do busy work.
Um, you know, how often have we beentold in school, you need to know this
(20:34):
in case you need to know it, right?
Like it's no math.
Um, you don't need to like algebra,for instance, it's like, just in
case you might need to know algebra.
Like I've never used algebra.
Like maybe I have, I don't know.
Like I didn't retain enough.
My background's in English languagearts, so sorry for the, the math
shade that I just threw there.
But, um, right.
It's, it's, if we don't.
(20:54):
Use it if you don't seethat relevance, right?
Then we don't practice it.
We don't incorporate it into our memory.
And yes, so much of educationhas always been just in case.
So this approach, like video games, havedirectly impacted how I approach education
and how I approach the Center for Teachingand Learning, where I want everything to
be just in time, not just in case, right?
(21:15):
I want people to be so immersed in themoment that when they run up against
the challenge and they don't knowhow to respond to that challenge, The
faculty member swoops in with, here'swhat you need to know right now.
And then I can incorporate that.
Here's what I need to knowto overcome this challenge
that develops in the schema.
Right.
That develops in the long term memory.
That's what we call active learning.
And that's also what we call agency.
(21:39):
You are awesome.
Oh, you're awesome.
Thank you.
Well, I'm awesome.
Just listening.
I feel it.
I love that.
Um, you, you are talking about, youknow, engaging students and doing things
that, that mean something for them.
You know, things that arelike, you know, their projects.
(22:00):
There are, there are things that arenot, you know, I actually, I don't know
whether you hear this a lot, but I seethis a lot, which is people talk about
project-based learning, but there arereally sort of a couple of different
levels of project-based learning.
I think there's like the project-basedlearning where someone designed the
whole project to just every stepthat you are supposed to go through.
(22:21):
To me, that's not really a project.
It's kind of better than like thetruly non project-based learning, but
it's not really like a real project.
It's not a project thatyou, you get to be part of.
You're just like, you know,almost like following Legos.
Like, step one, step two, step three.
Look, it's not bad.
But, it's like way betterthan that in my mind.
(22:44):
Absolutely.
And, and so, can you talk a littlebit about project-based learning
or these kind of more, You know,active learning is a more, more,
much more engaged kind of learning,the just in time kind of learning
that, that, that you were talking.
Can you give us some examples?
And I think you had, we weretalking, you were about to talk
about potentially ePortfolio.
(23:05):
Please feel free to throw that in there.
Um, how, what's an example of that?
What does it look like in thereal classroom for someone who,
you know, so far has said, allright, this is abstract idea.
Yeah, of course.
You're telling me.
You know, dessert tastes good.
I get it, but give me a real dessert.
Describe it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I think a lot of it comes down tothe gradual release of responsibility.
(23:29):
I know that's a contested term ineducational spaces, but I think it's
helpful, um, as a heuristic to think abouthow much as faculty are we willing to
gradually release of our responsibilityover the learning environment,
over the students, over the course.
Um, we want that to be gradual andwant that to be part of a process.
If I do the single assignment prompt asyou just described it, where I lay out
(23:51):
every single step and students get thatup front, they're just following a script.
I have not released anykind of responsibility.
I've kept it all, I've marked it all down.
Um, students don't get muchof a choice in the matter.
That word choice is the,is the secret sauce.
That's key, right?
We want multiple opportunities inproject-based learning, um, active
learning, flipped classrooms, no matterwhat the model is, no matter what the
(24:14):
fad is, um, I think of these, thesepedagogical terms like diets, right?
Like a new diet comes out and thenpeople follow it for a little bit.
They fall off the diet, the same dietcomes out, but it's repackaged under a
different name and then everybody jumps onit again, but it's still the same thing.
Um, and that's essentially what we'retalking about with active learning.
It's.
How many opportunities dostudents have to make decisions
(24:36):
based on what they're learning?
They don't get a lot of opportunitiesto make decisions, right?
Like we tell them howthey're going to be assessed.
We tell them what assignments to complete.
We tell them what to know.
And part of that is justified becauseyes, we are the content experts.
We know what they should know.
And you, it kind of defies thedefinition of being a student.
If you already know what you need to know.
That's why it's a gradual release ofresponsibility and it's more Um, it's
(24:59):
more collaborative than it is linear.
Now, what this looks like, I thinkAI has actually really helped us
clarify what this looks like for,because of chat GPT, for example,
um, the single assignment prompt.
It's dead.
It has to be dead by now, right?
If you're a student in my class and Igive you that single assignment prompt
that tells you everything you shoulddo step by step, all you have to do
(25:22):
is copy and paste that in the chatGPT and you'll get your final product.
But if I take that single assignmentprompt and I break it up, and I say,
instead of having one prompt or onedescription, we're going to go through
this in phases and steps, like step one.
Decide a topic for your project.
That's a lot of cognitive work.
We overlooked that.
We think because, you know, we've pursuedour interests as faculty, as scholars.
(25:43):
We've pursued our interests for so longthat interest is second nature to us.
We don't remember what it's like forme and, you know, being that video game
player who was skipping school to notrealize that my interests mattered here.
That takes a lot of cognitive andsocio-emotional work to know, you know,
what counts and what's included anddo I feel safe enough to include that.
So, choosing a topic and having people,having students have time to decide
(26:05):
what they would like to explore.
That takes feedback, that takescommunity, that takes process.
Once they have that topic, maybeasking them for a justification.
Why that topic?
What about your lived experiencehas led you to this topic?
The same way you asked me, um, how did J.
T.
Torres came to be?
I literally asked my students that.
Almost the second week of the semesterwhen they're deciding their topics.
How did you arrive here in this room?
(26:26):
Why did you select this topic andwhat are you hoping to do with it?
Lots of thinking with that.
They don't know what's coming next.
They don't know that this topic isgoing to actually outline their semester
project is going to become their capstone.
It's going to become their career.
They don't have to think about that.
It's right here, right nowin this moment, what matters.
And then breaking that down.
Okay, well now you have a topic.
Now you've told your life story.
(26:47):
Next thing we need to know as scholarsis what's been written about it, right?
Like what, What is theliterature out there?
What's the landscape?
What are the theories?
What's the evidence?
And then doing some kind of literaturereview and gathering, um, information and
sources with or without AI and chat GPT.
This is where ePortfolio comesin really, really handy because
it makes learning visible.
It makes that process visible as adigital story that we can visually see.
(27:10):
And maybe with hyperlinks and videosand all these modalities to just
deepen our engagement with the topic.
And, and then from thatliterature review, right?
Like, all right, now wehave all these sources.
What did you notice as themissing elements, right?
Like, this is what we claimthat to know about this topic.
Like, let's say someonechooses climate justice.
Um, and we know that, um, there aremuch higher rates of pollution or
(27:33):
ecological disaster around communitiesof color or communities who are
living in low, um, income, um, areas.
And so if we know that to be true,then what's the missing element?
What can we do?
To advance this conversation toprovide some kind of social change
based on this knowledge, right?
And so we're just taking it step by step.
I've thrown away the singleassignment description.
(27:54):
I don't use it at all anymore.
And I was, I was not using itbefore AI, but definitely not now.
Um, because.
I want students to stay on their toes.
I don't want them to knowexactly what's coming next.
I like that element of surprise anddramatic tension since I pull from
my experience as a creative writer.
But also, if they don't know what'scoming next, they can't game the system.
And if, and that fact that thatsuspense is there and that tense,
(28:16):
That, that tension is there.
That also means engagement andinterest and curiosity are there.
I love that.
It is basically thinking ofclasses like playing a video game.
It's just Yep, exactly.
Awesome.
That's, so like nowit's pretty transparent.
Like, why I do what I do.
It's all because of Legend of Zelda.
Well, it all goes down to the Thereis something that I, I want to
(28:36):
circle back to that I, I just love.
Um, you know, you had From the veryget go, you talked about Quinnipiac
being a professional school that caresabout students that can come out to
change society, to make changes tothe world, right, in meaningful ways.
Um, I think that this is a big partof something that I, I see in, in
(29:01):
all different kind of contexts.
Um, when I, you know, a lot of people talkabout critical thinking skills, you know.
Oftentimes critical thinking skills,people are referring to almost as
a, as a problem solving skills.
It's like, yeah, the questions,how do you get to the answer?
And I think that there's that criticalmaking skills that Questions forming
(29:25):
skills that actually, I think somepeople can easily, easily argue that's
actually part of critical thinking aswell, but that's not how it usually
translates into the classroom.
Oftentimes, you know, it's like, here'sall the questions you get to answer,
but what I really love about what you'redoing is, no, no, no, no, hold on.
You are coming with the questions andyou're answering them because if they
(29:48):
don't get a chance to ask questions,how, how are they going to be able to.
Feel the agency and the responsibilityand the rights to go on and make
changes to the, in the world.
Exactly.
Cause if they, they'realways like, no, no, no.
The question to be asked,you just have to answer it.
Well, hold on a minute.
(30:08):
Who gets to ask the questions?
Exactly.
Right.
Do you just like, doesquestions just always exist?
There's just like facts, you know,somewhere in the air, we can just
go in and answer it, it doesn't,it doesn't work like that, right?
Someone's actually comingup with the questions.
It's in the view.
If everyone's just answering, you know,um, answering them, it's just half of
the, it's just half the experience.
(30:30):
To me, that's just not good, you know?
Exactly, exactly.
And you're also definingcritical thinking really well.
Um, and I say that because I, I knowthat the definition for critical
thinking is very subjective.
Um, APA has one definition.
Um, if you look at criticalpedagogy and critical scholars,
they have a different definition.
Definition that focuses more oncritiquing systems of power, right?
So it's, it's all over the place.
(30:51):
Um, but I think one of that universalelements is that ability to ask questions.
Um, and that is, and I think that issomething that we take for granted.
I teach a lot of first yearcourses, first year writing.
Um, I really, really love thefirst year experience of higher
education because it's this massivetransition for human beings.
Um, not just for students, just for humansto take, to embark on this new journey.
(31:13):
Regardless of whether they're traditionalstudents and they're, um, exploring
independence for the first time, orif they're students who are making
career changes, students returningfrom, um, returning from military
service, or students transitioning.
Um, from prison back into thecommunity, um, these populations are
going through massive transformation.
So I love this identity because howcan you not be full of questions in
(31:37):
this massive transformative moment?
But teaching first year courses, onething that I have found is When I, when
I first started teaching, I would come inright away, day one, and the introduction
to the course, our icebreaker was, whatquestion do you have about the world?
What questions do youhave about the world?
At first, it was just silence, right?
Like, it was almost like people werewaiting for me to tell them what questions
(31:58):
they should have about the world andhow I've had to learn to scaffold that
Even that process in terms of first,you start with some kind of narrative.
Like, who are you and why are you here?
All right.
Based on that, what questionsdo you have about the world?
Or what was your past experienceright before this one?
Um, where were you working?
Where were you living?
Who were you living with?
What questions do you have based on that?
But it had to provide some kindof context or starting point
(32:19):
because we don't offer a lot ofopportunities to ask those questions.
And that is a fundamentalelement of critical thinking.
And there's also a politics to it, right?
So I've, um.
I showed this example, um, when I, whenI taught, um, Environmental Literacy, um,
in, at Quinnipiac in our InterdisciplinaryStudies program, um, The politics
(32:41):
of, as you said, who gets to ask aquestion is latent with power, right?
Who has the power to ask aquestion is very different, right?
Like that's, that's notthe same for everyone.
And we could see those politics play outin terms of certain dominant systems.
Preferring one question over another.
So the example that I share withmy class is the green revolution.
Um, in the sixties, where we, where wefigured out, um, how to mass produce
(33:05):
food, because the question we wereasking was, how do we feed the world?
Now, if you look behind the scenes,who was asking that question, a lot
of it was the large agriculturalindustry who wanted to increase profits.
And so feeding the world more cheaply.
Incentive, but the rest of us heardthat question of social justice.
We were like, yeah, weshould feed the world.
(33:26):
But what we know about the introductionof synthetic fertilizers and all
these harmful farming techniques iswe actually created a more dangerous.
Ecological Environment, and I use theword ecological to say like not just
for the soil, but also for the kindsof foods we were creating, which were
much more process based, much moresugar based, much more carb based, and
we actually introduced new problemsthat weren't there because we were
(33:50):
asking a very profit seeking questionrather than a truly equitable question.
Here's a preview of what's coming up nextin part two of my conversation with J.
T.
Torres, Director of the Centerfor Teaching and Learning
at Quinnipiac University.
You know, first thing, plagiarismis older than AI, right?
Like, we know that that this hasbeen a concern for many years, um,
(34:14):
for everybody, and this goes back toour, our relationship with assessment
that's more about accountabilitythan it is about improvement, right?
And, and it's not.
We haven't been so concerned with, letme assess where you are, low stakes, so
I can see where you are, so I can helpyou improve wherever you are, right?
It's always been, let me assess whereyou are because this assessment is going
(34:35):
to have implications for your financialaid, for your scholarship, for your
career, for your ability to say it.
Like we just create all thesepressures that we inadvertently
message to students, you better passregardless of how you pass, right?
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