July 22, 2025 • 42 mins
Although he wears the CEO suit and title, Ed Brown counters that he’s a chef at heart. He has bridged the world of white-tablecloth fine dining and high-scale institutional foodservice, without losing the soul of either.
Ed Brown began his career behind the line, rising through the world of fine dining to earn national acclaim as Executive Chef at The Sea Grill at Rockefeller Center. That same philosophy — care, craft, and clarity of purpose — now underpins his leadership as CEO of Restaurant Associates or R/A, a subsidiary of Compass Group, the nation’s largest family of foodservice and facilities services companies.
Learn what it takes to think big, and all the while, stay grounded in the principle of making quality, fresh, and sustainable ingredients taste delicious.
Research: Lan Lu, PhD
Video and production: Jaison Jose of Cocoon Media
The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration.
Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Executive Director of Strategic Operations and Corporate Relations
Research and Content Creation: Lan Lu
Marketing: Anne Dawson
Editing: Isabella Laikin and James Leon
Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Today's guest has done something few in
hospitality ever manage.
He's bridged the world of whitetablecloth fine dining and
high-scale institutional foodservice without losing the soul
of either.
Ed Brown began his career behindthe line, rising through the
world of fine dining to earnnational acclaim as executive
chef at the Sea Grill atRockefeller Center.
(00:30):
His cuisine was known for itsprecision, elegance, and a sense
of place.
And that same philosophy, care,craft, and clarity of purpose
now underpins his leadership asCEO of Restaurant Associates, or
RA, a subsidiary of CompassGroup, the nation's largest
family of food service andfacility services companies.
(00:52):
RA operates in some of the mosthigh-profile environments in the
country, from Fortune 500headquarters to top-tier
cultural institutions.
And under Ed's leadership, thecompany has evolved from a
traditional food serviceoperator to a modern hospitality
brand driven by innovation,wellness, and sustainability.
(01:16):
But what makes Ed's perspectiveso valuable isn't just the scale
he oversees.
It's the clarity with which heconnects food, leadership, and
purpose.
So today we are talking bigpicture, the future of food
service, and what it means todeliver a quality hospitality
experience both within theorganization and the tens of
(01:39):
thousands of people the companyserves each day.
Ed, it's a real pleasure towelcome you to the distinguished
podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
So Restaurant Associates currently is one of
the certainly premium, but oneof the smaller sectors inside of
the Compass North Americafamily.
But I'll qualify that by sayingthat where they're one of the
smallest, we are a$1.7 billionoperation, but inside of a much
(02:23):
larger operation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
And so what are RA's core lines of business and how
do they differ from compasssectors?
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
Aaron Powell Well, our core lines of business have
shifted over the years.
It started by being purely arestaurant company, and we've
evolved into a food servicecompany, meaning we do other
things.
And we've extended our lines ofbusiness tremendously, which has
helped us grow and also hedgedifferent things like inflation
and crises and ups and downs ofthe natural course of business,
(02:51):
including business andindustries, executive dining,
some premium sports andentertainment events like the
Saratoga National Raceway andthe U.S.
Open Tennis, as well as being insome of the premier tech
companies, big bold-face namesthat you would know.
We were with them all over thecountry.
(03:14):
We own several cateringcompanies around the country.
So a lot of different businessesto sort of not only hedge
against things that happen inour environment, but also they
assist one another.
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
And so do you also operate restaurants, continue to
do that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Oh, yeah.
So when I when I moved into thisrole, my main mission was to
bring restaurants back torestaurant associates.
I always felt very strongly thatit was the public-facing image
that was the advantage or theunique differentiator over any
of our competitors, is that whenpeople say, oh, you you believe
(03:51):
in delicious food andhospitality, and I would have to
say, you have to believe me, orcome to our place and we can
show you.
We can send you to ourpublic-facing restaurants, all
of which are terrific, one ofwhich has the number one rating
in New York at the current uhmoment, and show people what we
do.
And that's what we did back inthe day when I started in this
(04:13):
company a short 35 years ago,and uh sort of ebbed and flow
over time how many restaurantswe had or didn't have based on
the leadership of the company.
And in my tenure, I've gone backto being in the restaurant
business and it's just provingthat it works.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Great.
So you started your, and Imentioned that in uh you started
your career in fine dining, andnow lead one of the most
suspected names in hospitality.
So what drove your transitionfrom the kitchen to the C-suite?
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Never was a plan, never was expected.
Uh but I did have to admit, uhif I in retrospect, I've always
enjoyed the business aspect ofour business.
I love cooking, I lovehospitality, I love serving
guests.
Uh but being a chef is being agreat leader.
Being a chef is being amathematician and a scientist of
(05:08):
sorts, um, and you need tounderstand business.
And as you grow in the level ofyour position, all of those
intensify.
And so it really uhunintentionally became a natural
uh glide path for me.
SPEAKER_01 (05:23):
So um as a chef, like you said, you're a
mathematician, you are so manythings.
So how has your chef backgroundhelped you in your leadership?
What kind of qualities did youbring to the C-suite?
SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
So I think that it's uh a tremendous advantage, and I
think that I um I'm veryfortunate to be in the position
I am because I I come to it withstreet cred.
Uh when I tell a group of chefsor people who are operators
working for me, I am not thesuit.
Most of them I've hired overtime or have worked for me over
(06:02):
time as a chef, as a chefleader, knowing that I
understand how to run theiroperations as well as they do,
in some cases the same as, orbetter than they do, and that I
have meaningful operationalguidance to give them.
But I also know that I get outof their way enough to empower
them to let them do their jobsand to give them the respect of
(06:25):
being craftspeople andprofessionals.
And so there's that mutualrespect.
And what I get for that back isamazing loyalty.
And I lead by not telling peoplewhat to do.
I lead by having people followme because they believe me.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
I know it's been a few years, but do you sometimes
still put on your chef's coatand walk into the kitchen?
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
I do.
So I I keep a couple at home, Ikeep a couple in my office, uh,
keep a couple spur sprinkledaround the country at different
places.
And uh I do one uh very uhfull-on commitment every year.
I do have a restaurant with myname on it at the U.S.
Open.
It's called Aces by Ed Brown.
Uh it's a fine dining seafoodrestaurant that I I show up
(07:10):
there for 14 days every summer.
And when people ask me if uh ifI miss cooking, I say those 14
days cure me of it every year.
And it's great.
I love being out on the floorand seeing my guests, and it's a
lot of repeat, very VIP guestsout there.
And so it's fun and it'sinteresting, and it's good with
being with the team in thekitchen for a couple hours each
day.
(07:31):
Uh but I gotta get back to work.
And uh but I do love it.
I still love the energy of it.
And and when I travel thecountry in our different uh
locations, I do spend a lot oftime checking in with the chefs
and getting their perspectiveand making sure that they know
that they're heard and part ofthe leadership of this company.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Aaron Powell So those two eyes that you're
working in that kitchen everyday, you know that all eyes on
you.
And does that sometimes make younervous when you're chopping
onions or anything that everyoneis watching?
Oh, this chef?
SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
I mean, he's I don't think that's any different than
having been a chef my wholelife.
Uh and in fact, it's beenamplified, and so it's normal
for me as a CEO to know that atall moments everyone's watching
you.
Right.
And I share that with my otherleaders in the company.
Be aware that you're beingwatched all the time and make
sure that your actions matterand be aware of what you're
(08:25):
doing and what your behaviorsare.
Fantastic.
But once a chef, always a chef,right?
100%.
People say you used to be achef.
I said, no, I'm still a chef.
If you're a doctor, nobody takesaway your title because you
become the administer of thehospital.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Right.
Yeah.
Many times I introduce myself asprofessor, and people say, Well,
you're dean now.
Yeah, but my soul, my core is aprofessor.
That's right.
Okay.
So at our school, we redefinedhospitality as experience
innovation.
It's a deliberate businessstrategy designed to bolster
bottom line performance bymaking sure that all internal
(09:01):
and external constituents feelseen, heard, and appreciated.
So I'm interested in hearingyour perspective on why
hospitality should matter toleadership teams, even those
outside of traditional food andservice sectors.
So, how do you see other sectorsbenefiting from integrating
(09:21):
hospitality in how they do thebusiness and interact with their
clients' constituents?
SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
I think that intentional hospitality is a
requirement everywhere.
It doesn't, it's it has nothingto do with being fine dining.
Hospitality exists at a fastfood, quick serve, catering.
It exists at my barber shop.
It is a way to run a business.
(09:46):
And it's providing hospitalityto your guests, your clients, to
each other.
Very important overlooked pieceis providing hospitality to each
other, to provide a workenvironment that makes you feel
like you want to be there everyday.
And hospitality is really moredescribed about not what you did
for that person, but how youmade them feel, as Maya Angelo
(10:07):
has very well said, and we allrepeat many times since then.
But it's true.
You leave a place, if you feelgreat about what just happened
to you there, you're you'regonna be a fan, you're gonna be
loyal, you're gonna want toreturn.
That's what being in therestaurant business is, that's
what being in the hospitalitybusiness is.
And as I say, you know, I Inever intentionally have our
(10:30):
folks focus as much on money,although it's important we're in
the restaurant business, not therestaurant hobby.
But by way of providing greatfood in hospitality, it sounds
cliche, but the money comes byitself if you've set it up
correctly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
You know, I'm kind of curious.
I want to go back to your chefdays.
Um, you were executive chef, um,and and so that's the mindset
every dish, you know, comes outhas to be an amazing dish in
food and taste and quality andlooks and flavor.
But now you're serving tens andthousands of meals a day.
(11:09):
So how do you maintain a senseof creativity and craft without
losing consistency and thatuniqueness?
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Well, first of all, on creativity and craft, food
needs to be menu engineered.
You need to serve the right foodto the right amount of people.
If you're serving a restaurantthat's going to serve 100 people
very special meals, that's onemenu.
That menu won't work for a partyof 10,000 people.
(11:37):
And you need to understand that.
And it's about engineering themenu for food that can be well
executed and not suffer theflaws of expanded volume.
Um and also uh, you know, notnot every not every party is
meant to be fine dining.
(11:58):
Every every party is different,every event is different.
And I think that just realizingthat and engineering the food
and planning accordingly isreally what what makes it stand
out or be be special.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
So where do you get your inspiration for food these
days?
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
For me, it's easy because uh my business is in 30
cities around the country.
I'm constantly traveling, and II eat in the restaurants of
every city that I go to, and I'mconstantly being inspired by the
simplest thing from street foodvendors to great quick serve
restaurants to fine diningrestaurants.
(12:36):
But mostly it's that middle,that middle sweet spot of
restaurant where they're doingcraft cooking, where the chef,
there's just a chef in there whojust wants to cook because of
the love of cooking as anartisan, and just have some
delicious food, an ingredientthat was really sourced
specially, uh, that didn't messaround with too much, to be
(12:57):
honest.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
So you've made bold commitments to sustainability.
How do you embed those valuesinto daily operations without
compromising on quality or guestexperience?
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
So our job when it comes to procurement is to
provide access to all of ourchefs with the best possible
ingredients at their fingertipsthat they don't have to go
searching for them.
So we've got teams and groups ofpeople, not only from restaurant
associates, but the largercompass organization that are
(13:31):
searching and makingarrangements with these
different vendors and subsetsall the way down the line.
So when it comes tosustainability, for example, at
large scale, it's hard to beable to deal with, say, a small
local farmer who growsincredible carrots, but he, you
know, he can grow 45 bushels foryou every every few months.
(13:55):
You know, we can take 45 bushelsin one day.
So what we've done was partnerwith some of our larger produce
vendors, for example, and we'veasked them at our direction to
partner with these farmers, makearrangements with them, go to
their farms, pick up from them,don't put them in the trucking
business.
They're farmers.
(14:16):
You go and pick it up from them,uh, and we will uh commit to
purchasing them.
So it's a little extra work forthem.
They're gonna go aroundcollecting from these different
farmers, uh, but then we're ableto um, you know, aggregate them
into the system.
And we have an order guide sothat everyone can order
electronically.
And on those order guides,there's indications of what
(14:39):
comes locally, also whatproducts are sustainable.
And, you know, back to thesustainable commitment, you
know, it's not a check-the-boxmoment for us.
We believe in it.
Uh, you know, when it comes toseafood, for example, which is
near and dear to my heart, Iliterally wrote the book on
seafood in 1994 called TheModern Seafood Cook.
(15:02):
In 1994, I was talking aboutsustainability of seafood and
promoting as a seafood chef whogrew up at the shoreline, I was
promoting aquaculture as apositive thing.
And many people asked me aboutthat after the fact, like, you
realize you put that in yourbook.
I said, Yeah, because you needto realize that fishing methods
(15:23):
are increasing to the point of Ican already see this far away
that one day within ourlifetimes, the fish food supply
will be much less available outof the ocean, and we better have
alternatives to back that up ifwe want to continue eating
healthy, delicious fish.
That's better for you and betterfor the planet.
And it won't happen in aninstant.
We're gonna need decades to beprepared.
(15:46):
And so um, you know, here we aretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
Yeah, you were way ahead of the time at that point.
Do you think that we have doneenough with sustainable seafood
uh production?
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
No.
Not yet.
Absolutely not.
And I'll I'll tell you a greatstory about uh one of the best
sustainability efforts that Inever knew I did.
So uh when I opened a restaurantcalled Tropica in New York City,
first restaurant I opened inRestaurant Associates when I
joined at the end of 1989, I Ihad a seafood vendor come to me
(16:20):
and said, I used to be acommercial fisherman, but I
couldn't stand being at sea.
I got sick uh all the time.
But I love being part of it andI love being involved.
So I'm now working with a wholebunch of the local fishermen out
on Long Island where they comein, and I can buy whatever I
want from them.
They'll sell whatever I want tome, and I'll bring it to you
(16:42):
directly.
I said, fantastic.
And so, you know, there's allthe usual things that you get
out of out of Long Island, likesquid and fluke and uh striped
bass and bluefish and all thosegreat things.
I said, you know, we couldexpand our business.
How about bringing me somethingdifferent?
He says, Well, there's not a lotdifferent.
(17:02):
I said, Well, when those guysguys go out fishing, they pull
up stuff, other fish come up onthe deck, which is called
bycatch.
Right.
I said, Well, what do you dowith the bycatch?
He says, What everybody elsedoes with it.
We shovel it back over theboard, back into the ocean.
I said, Well, that's nice.
At least they get back to beingalive.
He says, by the time they getback in the water, they're not
(17:24):
necessarily alive.
And that's so wasteful.
But I didn't think it from awaste perspective.
I'm thinking, as a chef, youmean there's fish in the ocean
that come right off our shoresthat nobody's ever seen.
Bring me those.
And so I started buying bycatch,uh, and I would take whatever
they give me.
I'll say, give me 50 pounds ofbycatch, whatever it is, I'll
(17:46):
pay you whatever we agreed,$5 apound, 50 pounds, send it to me.
I got to figure out how to useit.
That's my problem.
And a lot of these fish they hadsome names for, many they
didn't, and I would just make upnames.
But since we were a seafoodrestaurant and a busy seafood
restaurant, which had a goodreputation, people trusted me.
(18:08):
I could put on a rune fish, andpeople were going to try it
because they never heard of it,and they trusted that I knew
that it was fresh and that Iknow how to cook it.
And we'd serve them a runefishand they'd love it, and they'd
be looking for the next returnfor a runefish.
And so I'd continue- I wasencouraged to continue buying
bycatch, which became a verysustainable practice, but really
(18:28):
it was a differentiator inquality uh for us.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Now, just interestingly, did you remember
what names you gave so that thenext time one particular fish
you name something and it's thesame fish with a different name?
Aaron Powell Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
I mean, it's it's not it's not like there was
hundreds, right?
But there was probably, youknow, twelve or fifteen that we
saw a lot, and we, you know, wekept those same names.
I was also at that timepromoting sustainability by
going to small day boatfishermen, which is such a
cliche thing, again, to saytoday, but in 1990 that was very
(19:04):
different.
And on my menu, which wasprinted every single day, was
printing not only the composeddishes, but a listing of here's
the 10 or 12 fish that I have inmy kitchen today that arrived in
my kitchen today.
And next to each of those fishwas the vessel that landed them
(19:24):
and the port of landing.
So it was anywhere from, youknow, from South Barnegate, New
Jersey, up through Montauk, asfar as up to Boston area.
And it would be the port oflanding and the and the fishing
vessel.
And people got interested.
Oh, I've had a fish caught fromthe vessel, the fishing vessel
(19:47):
Catherine out of Montauk before.
Let's try it.
Right?
Not that it really has anythingto do with how that fish tastes,
but it got people engaged in astory.
And a story is a big part ofmenu engineering and menu
selling.
Um and it made people connectedto the sustainability story.
Now, which year was thishappening?
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
This is 8990.
You're clearly way ahead of yourtime there, because that this is
what is popular now, you know,with the farm to table.
You know, they they talk aboutall of the local sourcing and
where stuff is coming from.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
But to be honest, and I thanks for saying that.
But to be honest, as I said, Iadmit that I did it more out of
a quality differentiator,somewhat bit of a marketing tool
uh to put ourselves apart, butit really was a great
sustainability move.
You know, you mentioned farm totable.
My good friend Tom Calliccioloves to say, where else do you
(20:40):
think it comes from from thefarm to the table?
Doesn't come from the sky,right?
It's such an overused term.
Right.
I think there had use for peopleremembering that there are farms
and that's important.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Now, we know that uh food is coming from
industrial-sized farms.
So I want to go back into theinto the main industry and and
you know, talk about thecompromise we we we make when we
are trying to buy local.
And you mentioned that earlierthat the amount of um local
farmer supply is very limited.
(21:12):
So obviously it is at a highercost.
So now we have this trade-offbetween buying local at a higher
cost versus buying from theseindustrial-sized farms.
And so my question is what aresome of the practical ways in
which our industry can becomemuch more local sustainable
without driving up the cost toomuch?
(21:33):
So the cost is definitely more.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Um, but the way to control that is another
unintended consequence of asustainability measure.
Waste not.
Waste not, which is a programthat we call in our company, and
it's about not wasting food,creating waste, which is one of
(21:55):
the biggest flaws againstsustainability in this country.
The world, but especially inthis country, the amount of food
that's wasted, and I'm sureyou've heard that and told that
story a million times, is ismind-boggling.
And in our kitchens, we actuallyweigh all wet waste.
It's weighed and you have topunch it into a tablet and it's
(22:18):
tracked.
And we see how much food youwaste, and you're scored upon
it, and you're bonused upon itor not.
And it's not to punish people,but it's to get people into a
rhythm, into culture.
When it becomes part of theculture, it becomes part of the
DNA, then it's automatic.
They're looking to not to wastebecause that's just what they
do.
(22:38):
And, you know, I keep using thehumble carrot as an example.
People open a bag of carrots andthey chop off the top, they chop
off a quarter to a third of thebottom because they think it's
too skinny.
Now you've just taken 25 percentof that carrot before you even
did anything to it, and you'vethrown it in the garbage.
(23:01):
Extrapolate that to all theother veg, extrapolate that to
fish, extrapolate that topoultry.
These are all things that taketime to grow.
They take nutrients from thesoil, they take water, they take
effort, machinery, people, fuel.
I mean, you're wasting so muchmore than that carrot, you're
(23:23):
wasting all of those otherthings.
And so every little bit that youcan waste less is huge efforts
towards sustainability and itoffsets waste.
And one of the things that Itell people how to control waste
best, besides being mindful andnot cutting off the tops and the
bottoms of carrots example, isbuy less, which is good for
(23:48):
business.
If you're using five bags ofcarrots every single day, you
order five bags of carrots everysingle day, because I know I
need five bags of carrots everyday.
Anyone who tells me that isimmediately going to get a
challenge for me.
I don't believe you.
When is the last time you ranout of carrots?
Oh, we never run out of carrots.
Well, then you're buying toomuch.
(24:09):
Then you're buying right.
You're buying too much andyou're wasting too much.
Buy four bags of carrotstomorrow, tell me if you'll run
out.
I didn't.
Usually that story ends upsomewhere around three and a
half bags of carrots as theright number, and they've been
wasting that much the wholetime.
And again, extrapolate that intobigger and more expensive items,
it not only becomes asustainability story, but it
(24:30):
becomes a good-for-businessstory.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Um, there is also a lot of, I want to pivot a little
bit to technology uh andinnovation.
Um we talk in in in our world,we talk a lot about technology
and how it is, to some extent,replacing uh human interaction.
So how do you think aboutbalancing technological
efficiency with essential humanconnections that define our
(24:56):
world of hospitality?
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Well, the the most important part there is
recognizing that the human touchhas to exist.
And I don't believe intechnology or innovation at the
sake of hospitality ever.
However, I believe in technologyand innovation a lot when it can
make the guests' experience andthe team's experience easier.
(25:21):
I would love for the guest tohave a better experience, a
quicker, faster, uh you know, uhsimpler experience.
And if I make my team'sexperience easier because of the
use of that technology andinnovation, what do they have
time for?
Giving more hospitality.
And that again increases theguest experience.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
So and in in a company as complex and
far-reaching as COMPASS, so isthere a lot of innovation that
is happening and how does thattranslate into RA?
And are there some things goingfrom RA back to COMPASS?
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Aaron Powell Sure.
So uh we've got a lot of verytalented, smart people working
for us uh who are constantlyseeking for the the latest and
the greatest, and we do a lot oftesting.
But we also have a large arminside of Compass, uh a group
called the Envision Group, whosesole job is to be discovering on
(26:16):
our behalf and sharing with us.
Use it how you like.
Here it is.
Here's here's here'sinformation, here's new
technology, here's the latestequipment, here's the latest,
you know, POS systems, you nameit, guest customer interfacing
uh machines, uh, and we pick andchoose from there, and we get a
chance to pilot them and testthem.
(26:37):
We do in innovation summits uhwhere we bring together whole
regions of people, say here inBoston, for example, we'll have
at one of our places uh maybe ahundred of our top operators
with 25, 30 of our top clientsto also attend, to set up an
innovation summit with food,ingredients, technology, uh,
(27:01):
decor, signage, you name allthose things that we use every
day.
And share it as a best practice,but it's also very interesting
because we get great feedbackfrom those clients, and they
also feel part of our processthat they're involved and
engaged versus we show up andthis is what we do.
(27:24):
Some clients like that, someclients don't, but they become
part of the process.
A lot of them are very smart andhave a lot of experience and
give us good perspective andobject outside objective that we
take very seriously and add towhat we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
So you are uh part of the senior leadership team at
Compass.
And during my conversations, youknow, it it's it becomes very
clear that you that you bring avery boutique style, despite the
size, the big size of yourcompany, and a high-touch
mindset.
Uh, but the broader Compassgroup is serving at at a very,
(28:01):
very different scale.
So do you sometimes, you know,how do you interact and engage
with people who are just youknow things doing at uh even a
mega scale compared to whatyou're doing?
SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
And there are parts of our company that are that are
working at mega scale, but it'sinteresting.
When I sit at the officers'meetings for North America, and
my colleagues there from teamsthat feed stadiums, teams that
feed health care, their focus ondelivering great quality in that
(28:35):
genre, whatever that means, andhospitality is equal, every bit
is equal to mine.
We share the same visions.
It's incredible.
And when I came to that table uhfor the first time just a few
years ago, I thought, you know,am I going to be the odd duck in
this group?
It's a small group of veryhigh-level people.
(28:55):
And I was pleasantly surprisedto see that, you know, amazing
their care for detail andquality and excellence at that
level prevails.
And it prevails at differentlevels, whatever that means,
whatever is appropriate for thatgenre.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Okay, I want to pivot to um talent shortage in
our industry.
It's real, it's happening.
Um it was particularly highduring the pandemic.
It's eased a little bit, butstill, um, when you talk about
college educated graduatesworking in management and
leadership positions, um, it'sgetting very difficult to
attract and retain great people.
(29:35):
So, what do you think needs tochange in our industry so that
we can attract more people?
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
A few things need to happen, and I think a few things
have happened, I know at leastfor us.
Uh you mentioned during thepandemic, literally couldn't beg
people to come to work.
As we came out of the pandemic,I like to say if you could sign
your name and you werebreathing, you're hired.
Uh but that has shifted.
(30:03):
And what has shifted?
What has shifted is that we'relistening to people's desires of
how they want to work.
You know, just assuming, well,the restaurant business is
tough, and if it's not for you,then it's not for you.
And if it's too hot, get out ofthe kitchen.
And yeah, yeah, it's 12, 15hours a day, six days a week,
and if you don't like it toobad, forget it.
(30:23):
That doesn't exist anymore.
You've got to be able to pivotand be where the people who are
are willing to work be wherethey are.
And they're looking fordifferent types of hours,
they're looking for differentdays of the week, they're
looking for somewhat flexibleschedules, they want to have
time with their families.
They experienced that duringCOVID and they don't want to
ever go back to the other wayagain.
(30:45):
Um and pay.
You know, we were all verycomfortable thinking that people
were fairly paid.
Maybe they weren't or not paidenough.
Our our our average rate of payincreased massively from the end
of COVID until the last coupleof years.
(31:08):
And that also works.
Um and just being empathetic tothe life of the folks that are
coming to work with us, uh, andrespecting that every time they
come to us, we take them awayfrom their families.
And that we have to care aboutthat.
And we have to care about them.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
I think as an industry, we need to do a much
better job to attract morepeople.
Yes.
Um and then we started talkingabout the pandemic.
So I just want to get your senseof what are the major shifts
that have occurred in umexperience and in food service,
in carpet dining, in catering,um, and so forth.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
First of all, I think uh for people's love of
great crafted food actuallyreally expanded faster and more
than ever during COVID.
People had a lot more time toeat, to cook, to care about what
they were eating.
And as they came back, food wasused as one of the biggest tools
(32:12):
as return to office, as a returnto office amenity for our
executive dining and staff cafeclients, which is a big portion
of our business.
Um we have some beautiful placeswhere the clients provide free
food as an amenity.
Right.
Uh we have some that charge avery reduced price.
(32:33):
It's very far, you could neverbuy in the street for not even
50% what we what we sell it tothem for on behalf of our
clients.
Um and it adds up to a lot ofmoney.
But if you took that money anddivided it by the amount of
associates that were benefitingfrom it versus what you could
possibly give them in money, iszero, is nothing.
(32:56):
It's it it barely shows up.
Um yet they it works.
People love it, people come towork to have food.
Uh and it's also a gathering, agathering space where good
things happen when people comeand have sort of these casual
collisions together.
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
So I was always under the impression that uh
during the pandemic when wecould not go out, people missed
that aspect, and they did missthe communal, the social aspect
of dining out.
But what you're highlighting isthat in addition to the social
aspect, there was a renewedemphasis on the craft of the
food, and food itself became somuch more important.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
People were growing food, people were procuring
food, people were just cookingmore, they became much more in
tune with what they ate, versusyou know, people who you could
ask at the end of the day, whatdid you eat today?
Uh I don't know.
I don't remember.
There's a lot of people likethat, versus people who would
like list off all these things.
I made this and I made that, andI prepared this thing for
(33:58):
tomorrow, I'm going to turn itinto that.
They were very interested, andit was a lot of that.
And that was that's good for us.
SPEAKER_01 (34:05):
Okay.
So uh towards the end, what'sone piece of advice you find
yourself giving often to youngprofessionals starting out in
the field?
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
I think staying true to leading with quality,
confidence.
Uh the mantra in my company isalways start with delicious, uh,
be grateful, humble, andempathetic.
(34:35):
Never lose that.
That's extremely important tolive by.
Uh and that we are here to serveat the pleasure of our guests.
We are not here to doexperimental hospitality and
food service.
We'd like things to beinteresting and different, but
the lion's share of what you'redoing is serving people who want
just delicious food served well.
(34:56):
And I think you have always haveto keep that front of mind.
And that we are in a business.
It is a business, and we have tobe conscious of that.
Uh keep your head down, workvery hard.
When you have success, anyamount of success, immediately
share it and praise your peoplewho got you there, and then lead
by example by putting your headright back down and going back
(35:19):
to work to earn more success.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
Perfect, perfect advice.
Thank you so much.
Um at the end, I have a fewquestions for fun.
Um So when you cook at home,what's your go-to dish for
family and friends?
What do you end up making?
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
Uh my go-to dish is probably a dish that I used to
cook for my kids called SundaySpecial.
And Sunday Special was uh Iwould take, I would make sort of
uh some littleneck clams uh withoil and garlic and some fresh
chilies, white wine, and I wouldsort of start to steam them
(35:59):
open.
And as they steamed open, Iwould, and the idea was for me
to cook everything in one potbecause I didn't want to clean
up on a Sunday.
And as they began to open, abroth is forming in this pan,
the clams are starting to open,everything smells and tastes
like clam and white wine, and Iwould take a piece of halibut
and I would just put it intothat broth, the shallow broth,
(36:20):
and just sort of begin poachingthat in there, and then add a
piece of butter, which weemulsified with the sauce, and
it becoming a sauce.
And then I would take the clamsout and put them in a bowl and
put them up on the table.
My kids would start eating theclams.
They love the clams.
And then as the fish becameready, I give them the fish.
And all the while I had a potboiling with some pasta, and the
(36:44):
last course would be reducedthat sauce, take the pasta into
the sauce, and the last coursewould be some pasta with the
clam sauce.
And so in one pot, we've eatenall those ingredients and a lot
of fresh chopped parsley.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Turmeric is my go-to ingredient.
I put that in almost everything,including when I'm making eggs.
Do you have a favoriteingredient that you always keep
in the shelf in your kitchen,and it's going to somehow find
its way into everything youmake?
Absolutely.
And it's very simple.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Black pepper.
And as a seafood chef, that'svery unusual because uh people
who work for me over the yearslike, Chef, you really want me
to use black?
You need a black pepper grinderon your station.
You said black, right?
I said, yes.
Well, it's gonna make spots inthe food.
I don't care about spots, I careabout delicious.
(37:35):
And black pepper, all of thatfloral flavor is in the hole on
the outside, which basically isstripped away to get to the
white peppercorn, which givesyou the heat, which is nice, but
I want the floral as well as theheat, and it's gotta be freshly
ground because pepper that youbuy ground it it stays around
and just loses any potency orany floral notes.
(37:58):
You know, when I was activelyrunning restaurants, I traveled
the country a lot doing eventsor media.
And I had a couple, a couple ofmy team who would normally
travel with me, and they knowthat no matter where we're
going, bring kosher salt, bringMaldon Flake salt, bring amazing
(38:18):
quality olive oil, bringhigh-fat butter, and bring a
black peppermill.
Five things.
Give me your shoe, I can make ittaste good with those
ingredients.
And basically that's what wedid.
You end up in a country in theuh somewhere in the middle of
the country where you don't knowwhat you're gonna get, I can
make it taste good.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
So for everyone listening, uh he really doesn't
use the shoes in his cooking,but he does use amazing
ingredients.
Um so my last question for youum if you could share a meal
with four people, living or not,who would they be and where
would you want to take it takeplace?
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
Oh well, uh I've been asked this question or
similar a few times.
So I'm gonna try to use parts ofdifferent ones, but be fresh as
well.
Uh one would be uh I thinksitting in Marseille at the
docks, sharing a seafood stewcooked in the sort of in the
(39:20):
back of a boat with severalfishermen who just came back in
from the ocean fishing, uh, withJacques Cousteau.
SPEAKER_01 (39:28):
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
Okay.
That would be one.
Another one would certainly bewith my dad, who's passed away a
long time ago, way too soon.
Uh he loved great food.
Uh he never saw really my largersuccess in life, although my
father always saw it assuccessful, whatever I did.
But um I would love to have ameal with him.
I'd love to cook it for him andthen sit down and eat it with
(39:52):
him.
Uh another would be uh a mealthat I have had when he was
alive, but he's no longer withus, was one of my great mentors,
Pierre Fresni.
Pierre Fresni uh was one of thefirst French chefs in America,
came over with the World's Fair,became the chef at Le Pavillon
restaurant in New York.
And uh, you know, in my upcomingin New York, when all real
(40:15):
restaurants were Frenchrestaurants, he was sort of the
godfather of those restaurants.
And I didn't work for him, buthe would come around to all
those restaurants, friendly withthe chefs, and for some reason
took me under his wing.
And I used to spend time withhim in his country house out in
Long Island and go fishing withhim.
And I missed those dinners thatwe cooked.
(40:36):
You know, we'd catch fish, we'dpick vegetables from his garden,
we'd cook them together, andhere I am at like 22 years old,
thinking I'm cooking with thegreatest chef in the world,
possibly.
I just need to be soaking thisup and keeping my mouth shut.
And uh I did, and I learned alot, and it gave me a lot of a
(40:57):
lot of gratitude.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Yeah, in addition to learning, I think it's the
inspiration and you know thatfeeling that uh that you have,
which you still have after somany years.
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
Fantastic.
Thank you, Ed.
That was a fascinatingconversation.
Really, really appreciate thepartnership with you and the
fact that you came here intothis conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Yeah, my my pleasure and thank you for having me.
It's an honor to be a guest onyour on your program.
And I just want to saycongratulations on what you do
here at the institution because,as you know, we partner with
some of your students who comeas interns and hopefully stay
with us.
Uh, and they are some of thebest people that join us.
They are so qualified, they areso prepared, and that really
(41:41):
speaks a lot to you and the teamthat works in your group.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
If you want to join the conversation and share your
thoughts and suggestions, emailme at shawdean at bu.edu.
That is s-a d-e-an at bu.edu.
This episode was produced byMara Littman, marketing by
Rachel Hamlin, research by Dr.
Lan Lu, video and production byJason Joes and of Cocoon Media.
(42:07):
Thank you to the entire team atBU School of Hospitality.
To keep up with theDistinguished Podcast, be sure
to subscribe wherever you listento your favorite podcast.
You can also learn more aboutexperience innovation in our
undergraduate and graduateprograms by visiting BU.edu
slash hospitality.
(42:27):
I'm Arunupneja, Dean of the BUSchool of Hospitality.
Wishing you a great day andthank you for listening.
Today's guest has done something few in
hospitality ever manage.
He's bridged the world of whitetablecloth fine dining and
high-scale institutional foodservice without losing the soul
of either.
Ed Brown began his career behindthe line, rising through the
world of fine dining to earnnational acclaim as executive
chef at the Sea Grill atRockefeller Center.
(00:30):
His cuisine was known for itsprecision, elegance, and a sense
of place.
And that same philosophy, care,craft, and clarity of purpose
now underpins his leadership asCEO of Restaurant Associates, or
RA, a subsidiary of CompassGroup, the nation's largest
family of food service andfacility services companies.
(00:52):
RA operates in some of the mosthigh-profile environments in the
country, from Fortune 500headquarters to top-tier
cultural institutions.
And under Ed's leadership, thecompany has evolved from a
traditional food serviceoperator to a modern hospitality
brand driven by innovation,wellness, and sustainability.
(01:16):
But what makes Ed's perspectiveso valuable isn't just the scale
he oversees.
It's the clarity with which heconnects food, leadership, and
purpose.
So today we are talking bigpicture, the future of food
service, and what it means todeliver a quality hospitality
experience both within theorganization and the tens of
(01:39):
thousands of people the companyserves each day.
Ed, it's a real pleasure towelcome you to the distinguished
podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
So Restaurant Associates currently is one of
the certainly premium, but oneof the smaller sectors inside of
the Compass North Americafamily.
But I'll qualify that by sayingthat where they're one of the
smallest, we are a$1.7 billionoperation, but inside of a much
(02:23):
larger operation.
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
And so what are RA's core lines of business and how
do they differ from compasssectors?
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
Aaron Powell Well, our core lines of business have
shifted over the years.
It started by being purely arestaurant company, and we've
evolved into a food servicecompany, meaning we do other
things.
And we've extended our lines ofbusiness tremendously, which has
helped us grow and also hedgedifferent things like inflation
and crises and ups and downs ofthe natural course of business,
(02:51):
including business andindustries, executive dining,
some premium sports andentertainment events like the
Saratoga National Raceway andthe U.S.
Open Tennis, as well as being insome of the premier tech
companies, big bold-face namesthat you would know.
We were with them all over thecountry.
(03:14):
We own several cateringcompanies around the country.
So a lot of different businessesto sort of not only hedge
against things that happen inour environment, but also they
assist one another.
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
And so do you also operate restaurants, continue to
do that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Oh, yeah.
So when I when I moved into thisrole, my main mission was to
bring restaurants back torestaurant associates.
I always felt very strongly thatit was the public-facing image
that was the advantage or theunique differentiator over any
of our competitors, is that whenpeople say, oh, you you believe
(03:51):
in delicious food andhospitality, and I would have to
say, you have to believe me, orcome to our place and we can
show you.
We can send you to ourpublic-facing restaurants, all
of which are terrific, one ofwhich has the number one rating
in New York at the current uhmoment, and show people what we
do.
And that's what we did back inthe day when I started in this
(04:13):
company a short 35 years ago,and uh sort of ebbed and flow
over time how many restaurantswe had or didn't have based on
the leadership of the company.
And in my tenure, I've gone backto being in the restaurant
business and it's just provingthat it works.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Great.
So you started your, and Imentioned that in uh you started
your career in fine dining, andnow lead one of the most
suspected names in hospitality.
So what drove your transitionfrom the kitchen to the C-suite?
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Never was a plan, never was expected.
Uh but I did have to admit, uhif I in retrospect, I've always
enjoyed the business aspect ofour business.
I love cooking, I lovehospitality, I love serving
guests.
Uh but being a chef is being agreat leader.
Being a chef is being amathematician and a scientist of
(05:08):
sorts, um, and you need tounderstand business.
And as you grow in the level ofyour position, all of those
intensify.
And so it really uhunintentionally became a natural
uh glide path for me.
SPEAKER_01 (05:23):
So um as a chef, like you said, you're a
mathematician, you are so manythings.
So how has your chef backgroundhelped you in your leadership?
What kind of qualities did youbring to the C-suite?
SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
So I think that it's uh a tremendous advantage, and I
think that I um I'm veryfortunate to be in the position
I am because I I come to it withstreet cred.
Uh when I tell a group of chefsor people who are operators
working for me, I am not thesuit.
Most of them I've hired overtime or have worked for me over
(06:02):
time as a chef, as a chefleader, knowing that I
understand how to run theiroperations as well as they do,
in some cases the same as, orbetter than they do, and that I
have meaningful operationalguidance to give them.
But I also know that I get outof their way enough to empower
them to let them do their jobsand to give them the respect of
(06:25):
being craftspeople andprofessionals.
And so there's that mutualrespect.
And what I get for that back isamazing loyalty.
And I lead by not telling peoplewhat to do.
I lead by having people followme because they believe me.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
I know it's been a few years, but do you sometimes
still put on your chef's coatand walk into the kitchen?
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
I do.
So I I keep a couple at home, Ikeep a couple in my office, uh,
keep a couple spur sprinkledaround the country at different
places.
And uh I do one uh very uhfull-on commitment every year.
I do have a restaurant with myname on it at the U.S.
Open.
It's called Aces by Ed Brown.
Uh it's a fine dining seafoodrestaurant that I I show up
(07:10):
there for 14 days every summer.
And when people ask me if uh ifI miss cooking, I say those 14
days cure me of it every year.
And it's great.
I love being out on the floorand seeing my guests, and it's a
lot of repeat, very VIP guestsout there.
And so it's fun and it'sinteresting, and it's good with
being with the team in thekitchen for a couple hours each
day.
(07:31):
Uh but I gotta get back to work.
And uh but I do love it.
I still love the energy of it.
And and when I travel thecountry in our different uh
locations, I do spend a lot oftime checking in with the chefs
and getting their perspectiveand making sure that they know
that they're heard and part ofthe leadership of this company.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Aaron Powell So those two eyes that you're
working in that kitchen everyday, you know that all eyes on
you.
And does that sometimes make younervous when you're chopping
onions or anything that everyoneis watching?
Oh, this chef?
SPEAKER_00 (08:02):
I mean, he's I don't think that's any different than
having been a chef my wholelife.
Uh and in fact, it's beenamplified, and so it's normal
for me as a CEO to know that atall moments everyone's watching
you.
Right.
And I share that with my otherleaders in the company.
Be aware that you're beingwatched all the time and make
sure that your actions matterand be aware of what you're
(08:25):
doing and what your behaviorsare.
Fantastic.
But once a chef, always a chef,right?
100%.
People say you used to be achef.
I said, no, I'm still a chef.
If you're a doctor, nobody takesaway your title because you
become the administer of thehospital.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Right.
Yeah.
Many times I introduce myself asprofessor, and people say, Well,
you're dean now.
Yeah, but my soul, my core is aprofessor.
That's right.
Okay.
So at our school, we redefinedhospitality as experience
innovation.
It's a deliberate businessstrategy designed to bolster
bottom line performance bymaking sure that all internal
(09:01):
and external constituents feelseen, heard, and appreciated.
So I'm interested in hearingyour perspective on why
hospitality should matter toleadership teams, even those
outside of traditional food andservice sectors.
So, how do you see other sectorsbenefiting from integrating
(09:21):
hospitality in how they do thebusiness and interact with their
clients' constituents?
SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
I think that intentional hospitality is a
requirement everywhere.
It doesn't, it's it has nothingto do with being fine dining.
Hospitality exists at a fastfood, quick serve, catering.
It exists at my barber shop.
It is a way to run a business.
(09:46):
And it's providing hospitalityto your guests, your clients, to
each other.
Very important overlooked pieceis providing hospitality to each
other, to provide a workenvironment that makes you feel
like you want to be there everyday.
And hospitality is really moredescribed about not what you did
for that person, but how youmade them feel, as Maya Angelo
(10:07):
has very well said, and we allrepeat many times since then.
But it's true.
You leave a place, if you feelgreat about what just happened
to you there, you're you'regonna be a fan, you're gonna be
loyal, you're gonna want toreturn.
That's what being in therestaurant business is, that's
what being in the hospitalitybusiness is.
And as I say, you know, I Inever intentionally have our
(10:30):
folks focus as much on money,although it's important we're in
the restaurant business, not therestaurant hobby.
But by way of providing greatfood in hospitality, it sounds
cliche, but the money comes byitself if you've set it up
correctly.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
You know, I'm kind of curious.
I want to go back to your chefdays.
Um, you were executive chef, um,and and so that's the mindset
every dish, you know, comes outhas to be an amazing dish in
food and taste and quality andlooks and flavor.
But now you're serving tens andthousands of meals a day.
(11:09):
So how do you maintain a senseof creativity and craft without
losing consistency and thatuniqueness?
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Well, first of all, on creativity and craft, food
needs to be menu engineered.
You need to serve the right foodto the right amount of people.
If you're serving a restaurantthat's going to serve 100 people
very special meals, that's onemenu.
That menu won't work for a partyof 10,000 people.
(11:37):
And you need to understand that.
And it's about engineering themenu for food that can be well
executed and not suffer theflaws of expanded volume.
Um and also uh, you know, notnot every not every party is
meant to be fine dining.
(11:58):
Every every party is different,every event is different.
And I think that just realizingthat and engineering the food
and planning accordingly isreally what what makes it stand
out or be be special.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
So where do you get your inspiration for food these
days?
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
For me, it's easy because uh my business is in 30
cities around the country.
I'm constantly traveling, and II eat in the restaurants of
every city that I go to, and I'mconstantly being inspired by the
simplest thing from street foodvendors to great quick serve
restaurants to fine diningrestaurants.
(12:36):
But mostly it's that middle,that middle sweet spot of
restaurant where they're doingcraft cooking, where the chef,
there's just a chef in there whojust wants to cook because of
the love of cooking as anartisan, and just have some
delicious food, an ingredientthat was really sourced
specially, uh, that didn't messaround with too much, to be
(12:57):
honest.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
So you've made bold commitments to sustainability.
How do you embed those valuesinto daily operations without
compromising on quality or guestexperience?
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
So our job when it comes to procurement is to
provide access to all of ourchefs with the best possible
ingredients at their fingertipsthat they don't have to go
searching for them.
So we've got teams and groups ofpeople, not only from restaurant
associates, but the largercompass organization that are
(13:31):
searching and makingarrangements with these
different vendors and subsetsall the way down the line.
So when it comes tosustainability, for example, at
large scale, it's hard to beable to deal with, say, a small
local farmer who growsincredible carrots, but he, you
know, he can grow 45 bushels foryou every every few months.
(13:55):
You know, we can take 45 bushelsin one day.
So what we've done was partnerwith some of our larger produce
vendors, for example, and we'veasked them at our direction to
partner with these farmers, makearrangements with them, go to
their farms, pick up from them,don't put them in the trucking
business.
They're farmers.
(14:16):
You go and pick it up from them,uh, and we will uh commit to
purchasing them.
So it's a little extra work forthem.
They're gonna go aroundcollecting from these different
farmers, uh, but then we're ableto um, you know, aggregate them
into the system.
And we have an order guide sothat everyone can order
electronically.
And on those order guides,there's indications of what
(14:39):
comes locally, also whatproducts are sustainable.
And, you know, back to thesustainable commitment, you
know, it's not a check-the-boxmoment for us.
We believe in it.
Uh, you know, when it comes toseafood, for example, which is
near and dear to my heart, Iliterally wrote the book on
seafood in 1994 called TheModern Seafood Cook.
(15:02):
In 1994, I was talking aboutsustainability of seafood and
promoting as a seafood chef whogrew up at the shoreline, I was
promoting aquaculture as apositive thing.
And many people asked me aboutthat after the fact, like, you
realize you put that in yourbook.
I said, Yeah, because you needto realize that fishing methods
(15:23):
are increasing to the point of Ican already see this far away
that one day within ourlifetimes, the fish food supply
will be much less available outof the ocean, and we better have
alternatives to back that up ifwe want to continue eating
healthy, delicious fish.
That's better for you and betterfor the planet.
And it won't happen in aninstant.
We're gonna need decades to beprepared.
(15:46):
And so um, you know, here we aretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
Yeah, you were way ahead of the time at that point.
Do you think that we have doneenough with sustainable seafood
uh production?
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
No.
Not yet.
Absolutely not.
And I'll I'll tell you a greatstory about uh one of the best
sustainability efforts that Inever knew I did.
So uh when I opened a restaurantcalled Tropica in New York City,
first restaurant I opened inRestaurant Associates when I
joined at the end of 1989, I Ihad a seafood vendor come to me
(16:20):
and said, I used to be acommercial fisherman, but I
couldn't stand being at sea.
I got sick uh all the time.
But I love being part of it andI love being involved.
So I'm now working with a wholebunch of the local fishermen out
on Long Island where they comein, and I can buy whatever I
want from them.
They'll sell whatever I want tome, and I'll bring it to you
(16:42):
directly.
I said, fantastic.
And so, you know, there's allthe usual things that you get
out of out of Long Island, likesquid and fluke and uh striped
bass and bluefish and all thosegreat things.
I said, you know, we couldexpand our business.
How about bringing me somethingdifferent?
He says, Well, there's not a lotdifferent.
(17:02):
I said, Well, when those guysguys go out fishing, they pull
up stuff, other fish come up onthe deck, which is called
bycatch.
Right.
I said, Well, what do you dowith the bycatch?
He says, What everybody elsedoes with it.
We shovel it back over theboard, back into the ocean.
I said, Well, that's nice.
At least they get back to beingalive.
He says, by the time they getback in the water, they're not
(17:24):
necessarily alive.
And that's so wasteful.
But I didn't think it from awaste perspective.
I'm thinking, as a chef, youmean there's fish in the ocean
that come right off our shoresthat nobody's ever seen.
Bring me those.
And so I started buying bycatch,uh, and I would take whatever
they give me.
I'll say, give me 50 pounds ofbycatch, whatever it is, I'll
(17:46):
pay you whatever we agreed,$5 apound, 50 pounds, send it to me.
I got to figure out how to useit.
That's my problem.
And a lot of these fish they hadsome names for, many they
didn't, and I would just make upnames.
But since we were a seafoodrestaurant and a busy seafood
restaurant, which had a goodreputation, people trusted me.
(18:08):
I could put on a rune fish, andpeople were going to try it
because they never heard of it,and they trusted that I knew
that it was fresh and that Iknow how to cook it.
And we'd serve them a runefishand they'd love it, and they'd
be looking for the next returnfor a runefish.
And so I'd continue- I wasencouraged to continue buying
bycatch, which became a verysustainable practice, but really
(18:28):
it was a differentiator inquality uh for us.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
Now, just interestingly, did you remember
what names you gave so that thenext time one particular fish
you name something and it's thesame fish with a different name?
Aaron Powell Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
I mean, it's it's not it's not like there was
hundreds, right?
But there was probably, youknow, twelve or fifteen that we
saw a lot, and we, you know, wekept those same names.
I was also at that timepromoting sustainability by
going to small day boatfishermen, which is such a
cliche thing, again, to saytoday, but in 1990 that was very
(19:04):
different.
And on my menu, which wasprinted every single day, was
printing not only the composeddishes, but a listing of here's
the 10 or 12 fish that I have inmy kitchen today that arrived in
my kitchen today.
And next to each of those fishwas the vessel that landed them
(19:24):
and the port of landing.
So it was anywhere from, youknow, from South Barnegate, New
Jersey, up through Montauk, asfar as up to Boston area.
And it would be the port oflanding and the and the fishing
vessel.
And people got interested.
Oh, I've had a fish caught fromthe vessel, the fishing vessel
(19:47):
Catherine out of Montauk before.
Let's try it.
Right?
Not that it really has anythingto do with how that fish tastes,
but it got people engaged in astory.
And a story is a big part ofmenu engineering and menu
selling.
Um and it made people connectedto the sustainability story.
Now, which year was thishappening?
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
This is 8990.
You're clearly way ahead of yourtime there, because that this is
what is popular now, you know,with the farm to table.
You know, they they talk aboutall of the local sourcing and
where stuff is coming from.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
But to be honest, and I thanks for saying that.
But to be honest, as I said, Iadmit that I did it more out of
a quality differentiator,somewhat bit of a marketing tool
uh to put ourselves apart, butit really was a great
sustainability move.
You know, you mentioned farm totable.
My good friend Tom Calliccioloves to say, where else do you
(20:40):
think it comes from from thefarm to the table?
Doesn't come from the sky,right?
It's such an overused term.
Right.
I think there had use for peopleremembering that there are farms
and that's important.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Now, we know that uh food is coming from
industrial-sized farms.
So I want to go back into theinto the main industry and and
you know, talk about thecompromise we we we make when we
are trying to buy local.
And you mentioned that earlierthat the amount of um local
farmer supply is very limited.
(21:12):
So obviously it is at a highercost.
So now we have this trade-offbetween buying local at a higher
cost versus buying from theseindustrial-sized farms.
And so my question is what aresome of the practical ways in
which our industry can becomemuch more local sustainable
without driving up the cost toomuch?
(21:33):
So the cost is definitely more.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Um, but the way to control that is another
unintended consequence of asustainability measure.
Waste not.
Waste not, which is a programthat we call in our company, and
it's about not wasting food,creating waste, which is one of
(21:55):
the biggest flaws againstsustainability in this country.
The world, but especially inthis country, the amount of food
that's wasted, and I'm sureyou've heard that and told that
story a million times, is ismind-boggling.
And in our kitchens, we actuallyweigh all wet waste.
It's weighed and you have topunch it into a tablet and it's
(22:18):
tracked.
And we see how much food youwaste, and you're scored upon
it, and you're bonused upon itor not.
And it's not to punish people,but it's to get people into a
rhythm, into culture.
When it becomes part of theculture, it becomes part of the
DNA, then it's automatic.
They're looking to not to wastebecause that's just what they
do.
(22:38):
And, you know, I keep using thehumble carrot as an example.
People open a bag of carrots andthey chop off the top, they chop
off a quarter to a third of thebottom because they think it's
too skinny.
Now you've just taken 25 percentof that carrot before you even
did anything to it, and you'vethrown it in the garbage.
(23:01):
Extrapolate that to all theother veg, extrapolate that to
fish, extrapolate that topoultry.
These are all things that taketime to grow.
They take nutrients from thesoil, they take water, they take
effort, machinery, people, fuel.
I mean, you're wasting so muchmore than that carrot, you're
(23:23):
wasting all of those otherthings.
And so every little bit that youcan waste less is huge efforts
towards sustainability and itoffsets waste.
And one of the things that Itell people how to control waste
best, besides being mindful andnot cutting off the tops and the
bottoms of carrots example, isbuy less, which is good for
(23:48):
business.
If you're using five bags ofcarrots every single day, you
order five bags of carrots everysingle day, because I know I
need five bags of carrots everyday.
Anyone who tells me that isimmediately going to get a
challenge for me.
I don't believe you.
When is the last time you ranout of carrots?
Oh, we never run out of carrots.
Well, then you're buying toomuch.
(24:09):
Then you're buying right.
You're buying too much andyou're wasting too much.
Buy four bags of carrotstomorrow, tell me if you'll run
out.
I didn't.
Usually that story ends upsomewhere around three and a
half bags of carrots as theright number, and they've been
wasting that much the wholetime.
And again, extrapolate that intobigger and more expensive items,
it not only becomes asustainability story, but it
(24:30):
becomes a good-for-businessstory.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Um, there is also a lot of, I want to pivot a little
bit to technology uh andinnovation.
Um we talk in in in our world,we talk a lot about technology
and how it is, to some extent,replacing uh human interaction.
So how do you think aboutbalancing technological
efficiency with essential humanconnections that define our
(24:56):
world of hospitality?
SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Well, the the most important part there is
recognizing that the human touchhas to exist.
And I don't believe intechnology or innovation at the
sake of hospitality ever.
However, I believe in technologyand innovation a lot when it can
make the guests' experience andthe team's experience easier.
(25:21):
I would love for the guest tohave a better experience, a
quicker, faster, uh you know, uhsimpler experience.
And if I make my team'sexperience easier because of the
use of that technology andinnovation, what do they have
time for?
Giving more hospitality.
And that again increases theguest experience.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
So and in in a company as complex and
far-reaching as COMPASS, so isthere a lot of innovation that
is happening and how does thattranslate into RA?
And are there some things goingfrom RA back to COMPASS?
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Aaron Powell Sure.
So uh we've got a lot of verytalented, smart people working
for us uh who are constantlyseeking for the the latest and
the greatest, and we do a lot oftesting.
But we also have a large arminside of Compass, uh a group
called the Envision Group, whosesole job is to be discovering on
(26:16):
our behalf and sharing with us.
Use it how you like.
Here it is.
Here's here's here'sinformation, here's new
technology, here's the latestequipment, here's the latest,
you know, POS systems, you nameit, guest customer interfacing
uh machines, uh, and we pick andchoose from there, and we get a
chance to pilot them and testthem.
(26:37):
We do in innovation summits uhwhere we bring together whole
regions of people, say here inBoston, for example, we'll have
at one of our places uh maybe ahundred of our top operators
with 25, 30 of our top clientsto also attend, to set up an
innovation summit with food,ingredients, technology, uh,
(27:01):
decor, signage, you name allthose things that we use every
day.
And share it as a best practice,but it's also very interesting
because we get great feedbackfrom those clients, and they
also feel part of our processthat they're involved and
engaged versus we show up andthis is what we do.
(27:24):
Some clients like that, someclients don't, but they become
part of the process.
A lot of them are very smart andhave a lot of experience and
give us good perspective andobject outside objective that we
take very seriously and add towhat we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
So you are uh part of the senior leadership team at
Compass.
And during my conversations, youknow, it it's it becomes very
clear that you that you bring avery boutique style, despite the
size, the big size of yourcompany, and a high-touch
mindset.
Uh, but the broader Compassgroup is serving at at a very,
(28:01):
very different scale.
So do you sometimes, you know,how do you interact and engage
with people who are just youknow things doing at uh even a
mega scale compared to whatyou're doing?
SPEAKER_00 (28:13):
And there are parts of our company that are that are
working at mega scale, but it'sinteresting.
When I sit at the officers'meetings for North America, and
my colleagues there from teamsthat feed stadiums, teams that
feed health care, their focus ondelivering great quality in that
(28:35):
genre, whatever that means, andhospitality is equal, every bit
is equal to mine.
We share the same visions.
It's incredible.
And when I came to that table uhfor the first time just a few
years ago, I thought, you know,am I going to be the odd duck in
this group?
It's a small group of veryhigh-level people.
(28:55):
And I was pleasantly surprisedto see that, you know, amazing
their care for detail andquality and excellence at that
level prevails.
And it prevails at differentlevels, whatever that means,
whatever is appropriate for thatgenre.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Okay, I want to pivot to um talent shortage in
our industry.
It's real, it's happening.
Um it was particularly highduring the pandemic.
It's eased a little bit, butstill, um, when you talk about
college educated graduatesworking in management and
leadership positions, um, it'sgetting very difficult to
attract and retain great people.
(29:35):
So, what do you think needs tochange in our industry so that
we can attract more people?
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
A few things need to happen, and I think a few things
have happened, I know at leastfor us.
Uh you mentioned during thepandemic, literally couldn't beg
people to come to work.
As we came out of the pandemic,I like to say if you could sign
your name and you werebreathing, you're hired.
Uh but that has shifted.
(30:03):
And what has shifted?
What has shifted is that we'relistening to people's desires of
how they want to work.
You know, just assuming, well,the restaurant business is
tough, and if it's not for you,then it's not for you.
And if it's too hot, get out ofthe kitchen.
And yeah, yeah, it's 12, 15hours a day, six days a week,
and if you don't like it toobad, forget it.
(30:23):
That doesn't exist anymore.
You've got to be able to pivotand be where the people who are
are willing to work be wherethey are.
And they're looking fordifferent types of hours,
they're looking for differentdays of the week, they're
looking for somewhat flexibleschedules, they want to have
time with their families.
They experienced that duringCOVID and they don't want to
ever go back to the other wayagain.
(30:45):
Um and pay.
You know, we were all verycomfortable thinking that people
were fairly paid.
Maybe they weren't or not paidenough.
Our our our average rate of payincreased massively from the end
of COVID until the last coupleof years.
(31:08):
And that also works.
Um and just being empathetic tothe life of the folks that are
coming to work with us, uh, andrespecting that every time they
come to us, we take them awayfrom their families.
And that we have to care aboutthat.
And we have to care about them.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
I think as an industry, we need to do a much
better job to attract morepeople.
Yes.
Um and then we started talkingabout the pandemic.
So I just want to get your senseof what are the major shifts
that have occurred in umexperience and in food service,
in carpet dining, in catering,um, and so forth.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
First of all, I think uh for people's love of
great crafted food actuallyreally expanded faster and more
than ever during COVID.
People had a lot more time toeat, to cook, to care about what
they were eating.
And as they came back, food wasused as one of the biggest tools
(32:12):
as return to office, as a returnto office amenity for our
executive dining and staff cafeclients, which is a big portion
of our business.
Um we have some beautiful placeswhere the clients provide free
food as an amenity.
Right.
Uh we have some that charge avery reduced price.
(32:33):
It's very far, you could neverbuy in the street for not even
50% what we what we sell it tothem for on behalf of our
clients.
Um and it adds up to a lot ofmoney.
But if you took that money anddivided it by the amount of
associates that were benefitingfrom it versus what you could
possibly give them in money, iszero, is nothing.
(32:56):
It's it it barely shows up.
Um yet they it works.
People love it, people come towork to have food.
Uh and it's also a gathering, agathering space where good
things happen when people comeand have sort of these casual
collisions together.
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
So I was always under the impression that uh
during the pandemic when wecould not go out, people missed
that aspect, and they did missthe communal, the social aspect
of dining out.
But what you're highlighting isthat in addition to the social
aspect, there was a renewedemphasis on the craft of the
food, and food itself became somuch more important.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
People were growing food, people were procuring
food, people were just cookingmore, they became much more in
tune with what they ate, versusyou know, people who you could
ask at the end of the day, whatdid you eat today?
Uh I don't know.
I don't remember.
There's a lot of people likethat, versus people who would
like list off all these things.
I made this and I made that, andI prepared this thing for
(33:58):
tomorrow, I'm going to turn itinto that.
They were very interested, andit was a lot of that.
And that was that's good for us.
SPEAKER_01 (34:05):
Okay.
So uh towards the end, what'sone piece of advice you find
yourself giving often to youngprofessionals starting out in
the field?
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
I think staying true to leading with quality,
confidence.
Uh the mantra in my company isalways start with delicious, uh,
be grateful, humble, andempathetic.
(34:35):
Never lose that.
That's extremely important tolive by.
Uh and that we are here to serveat the pleasure of our guests.
We are not here to doexperimental hospitality and
food service.
We'd like things to beinteresting and different, but
the lion's share of what you'redoing is serving people who want
just delicious food served well.
(34:56):
And I think you have always haveto keep that front of mind.
And that we are in a business.
It is a business, and we have tobe conscious of that.
Uh keep your head down, workvery hard.
When you have success, anyamount of success, immediately
share it and praise your peoplewho got you there, and then lead
by example by putting your headright back down and going back
(35:19):
to work to earn more success.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
Perfect, perfect advice.
Thank you so much.
Um at the end, I have a fewquestions for fun.
Um So when you cook at home,what's your go-to dish for
family and friends?
What do you end up making?
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
Uh my go-to dish is probably a dish that I used to
cook for my kids called SundaySpecial.
And Sunday Special was uh Iwould take, I would make sort of
uh some littleneck clams uh withoil and garlic and some fresh
chilies, white wine, and I wouldsort of start to steam them
(35:59):
open.
And as they steamed open, Iwould, and the idea was for me
to cook everything in one potbecause I didn't want to clean
up on a Sunday.
And as they began to open, abroth is forming in this pan,
the clams are starting to open,everything smells and tastes
like clam and white wine, and Iwould take a piece of halibut
and I would just put it intothat broth, the shallow broth,
(36:20):
and just sort of begin poachingthat in there, and then add a
piece of butter, which weemulsified with the sauce, and
it becoming a sauce.
And then I would take the clamsout and put them in a bowl and
put them up on the table.
My kids would start eating theclams.
They love the clams.
And then as the fish becameready, I give them the fish.
And all the while I had a potboiling with some pasta, and the
(36:44):
last course would be reducedthat sauce, take the pasta into
the sauce, and the last coursewould be some pasta with the
clam sauce.
And so in one pot, we've eatenall those ingredients and a lot
of fresh chopped parsley.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Turmeric is my go-to ingredient.
I put that in almost everything,including when I'm making eggs.
Do you have a favoriteingredient that you always keep
in the shelf in your kitchen,and it's going to somehow find
its way into everything youmake?
Absolutely.
And it's very simple.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Black pepper.
And as a seafood chef, that'svery unusual because uh people
who work for me over the yearslike, Chef, you really want me
to use black?
You need a black pepper grinderon your station.
You said black, right?
I said, yes.
Well, it's gonna make spots inthe food.
I don't care about spots, I careabout delicious.
(37:35):
And black pepper, all of thatfloral flavor is in the hole on
the outside, which basically isstripped away to get to the
white peppercorn, which givesyou the heat, which is nice, but
I want the floral as well as theheat, and it's gotta be freshly
ground because pepper that youbuy ground it it stays around
and just loses any potency orany floral notes.
(37:58):
You know, when I was activelyrunning restaurants, I traveled
the country a lot doing eventsor media.
And I had a couple, a couple ofmy team who would normally
travel with me, and they knowthat no matter where we're
going, bring kosher salt, bringMaldon Flake salt, bring amazing
(38:18):
quality olive oil, bringhigh-fat butter, and bring a
black peppermill.
Five things.
Give me your shoe, I can make ittaste good with those
ingredients.
And basically that's what wedid.
You end up in a country in theuh somewhere in the middle of
the country where you don't knowwhat you're gonna get, I can
make it taste good.
SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
So for everyone listening, uh he really doesn't
use the shoes in his cooking,but he does use amazing
ingredients.
Um so my last question for youum if you could share a meal
with four people, living or not,who would they be and where
would you want to take it takeplace?
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
Oh well, uh I've been asked this question or
similar a few times.
So I'm gonna try to use parts ofdifferent ones, but be fresh as
well.
Uh one would be uh I thinksitting in Marseille at the
docks, sharing a seafood stewcooked in the sort of in the
(39:20):
back of a boat with severalfishermen who just came back in
from the ocean fishing, uh, withJacques Cousteau.
SPEAKER_01 (39:28):
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
Okay.
That would be one.
Another one would certainly bewith my dad, who's passed away a
long time ago, way too soon.
Uh he loved great food.
Uh he never saw really my largersuccess in life, although my
father always saw it assuccessful, whatever I did.
But um I would love to have ameal with him.
I'd love to cook it for him andthen sit down and eat it with
(39:52):
him.
Uh another would be uh a mealthat I have had when he was
alive, but he's no longer withus, was one of my great mentors,
Pierre Fresni.
Pierre Fresni uh was one of thefirst French chefs in America,
came over with the World's Fair,became the chef at Le Pavillon
restaurant in New York.
And uh, you know, in my upcomingin New York, when all real
(40:15):
restaurants were Frenchrestaurants, he was sort of the
godfather of those restaurants.
And I didn't work for him, buthe would come around to all
those restaurants, friendly withthe chefs, and for some reason
took me under his wing.
And I used to spend time withhim in his country house out in
Long Island and go fishing withhim.
And I missed those dinners thatwe cooked.
(40:36):
You know, we'd catch fish, we'dpick vegetables from his garden,
we'd cook them together, andhere I am at like 22 years old,
thinking I'm cooking with thegreatest chef in the world,
possibly.
I just need to be soaking thisup and keeping my mouth shut.
And uh I did, and I learned alot, and it gave me a lot of a
(40:57):
lot of gratitude.
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Yeah, in addition to learning, I think it's the
inspiration and you know thatfeeling that uh that you have,
which you still have after somany years.
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
Fantastic.
Thank you, Ed.
That was a fascinatingconversation.
Really, really appreciate thepartnership with you and the
fact that you came here intothis conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Yeah, my my pleasure and thank you for having me.
It's an honor to be a guest onyour on your program.
And I just want to saycongratulations on what you do
here at the institution because,as you know, we partner with
some of your students who comeas interns and hopefully stay
with us.
Uh, and they are some of thebest people that join us.
They are so qualified, they areso prepared, and that really
(41:41):
speaks a lot to you and the teamthat works in your group.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
If you want to join the conversation and share your
thoughts and suggestions, emailme at shawdean at bu.edu.
That is s-a d-e-an at bu.edu.
This episode was produced byMara Littman, marketing by
Rachel Hamlin, research by Dr.
Lan Lu, video and production byJason Joes and of Cocoon Media.
(42:07):
Thank you to the entire team atBU School of Hospitality.
To keep up with theDistinguished Podcast, be sure
to subscribe wherever you listento your favorite podcast.
You can also learn more aboutexperience innovation in our
undergraduate and graduateprograms by visiting BU.edu
slash hospitality.
(42:27):
I'm Arunupneja, Dean of the BUSchool of Hospitality.
Wishing you a great day andthank you for listening.
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