September 9, 2026 • 11 mins
Wall Street is selling, Main Street is buying, and the space between is where the deals are getting done. This episode of the Distinguished Podcast was recorded on the road to the NYU International Hospitality Investment Forum in New York City.
Kaushik Vardharajan, Director of Boston University School of Hospitality’s Real Estate Program, spoke with Spencer Davidson, Senior Vice President at Hunter Advisors, a member of the Boston University School of Hospitality’s Real Estate Advisory Council, and a proud member of the SHA Class of 2012. Spencer lives inside the transaction market. In this conversation he unpacks the following:
- Why Wall Street has turned net seller while Main Street keeps buying
- How to tell a motivated seller from one just testing the waters
- Where the next great market might be hiding
The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration.
Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Executive Director of Strategic Operations and Corporate Relations
Research and Content Creation: Lan Lu
Marketing: Anne Dawson
Editing: Isabella Laikin and James Leon
Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
Wall Street is selling, Main Street is buying,
and the space between is wherethe deals are getting done.
This is the distinguishedpodcast produced by the Boston
University School of HospitalityAdministration.
And for this series, we havetaken the show on the road to
the NYU InternationalHospitality Forum in New York
City.
Kashik Vardarajan, director ofour real estate program, spoke
(00:30):
with Spencer Davidson, SeniorVice President at Hunter
Advisors, a member of our RealEstate Advisory Council, and a
proud member of the Shaw classof 2012.
Spencer lives inside thetransaction market.
In this conversation, he unpackswhy Wall Street has turned net
seller while Main Street keepsbuying.
(00:51):
How to tell a motivated sellerfrom one just testing the water
where the next great marketmight be hiding, and the skills
he wishes he had walking out ofShaw.
Let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Hi everyone.
This is the Boston UniversitySchool of Hospitality
Administration's distinguishedpodcast at the NYU International
Hospitality Investment Forum inNew York City.
My name is Koshekwardarajan.
I'm an associate professor ofthe practice and director of the
real estate program at theschool.
This podcast I'm delighted towelcome Spencer Davidson, Senior
(01:28):
Vice President at HunterAdvisors, a Shah Alum from 2012,
and a member of our Real EstateAdvisory Council.
Spencer, welcome.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Thank you.
So, Spencer, thank you formaking the time to meet with us.
So let's dive right into whateverybody's talking about on the
transaction side of things.
(01:49):
So at your conference in Atlantain March, Teague Hunter made an
interesting observation.
He said that Wall Street isnegative and that they have been
net sellers while the buyers inthe future are going to be Main
Street.
Is that something that you'realso seeing directly in your
role?
And if yes, what's the reasonfor the divergence?
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
I think Teague was 100% right on the money with
that comment.
Um, the sellers today areabsolutely Wall Street, and the
buyers continue to be MainStreet.
What's driving that is really, Ithink, a dislocation between
ownership and management.
Pre-COVID, debt was 3%.
This used to be a select servicegame where you would be able to
(02:29):
buy hotels at attractive caprates, fee it up, run out good
revenues.
Unfortunately, in a post-COVIDenvironment, we've had a lot of
product that has not had capitalreinvested back into the asset
and fixed costs such as taxes,insurance, utilities, and labor
costs, which continue toskyrocket.
So the group that is mosteffectively able to manage those
(02:50):
expenses are your main streetowners and operators.
They continue to be able to findopportunity where Wall Street
simply cannot.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Okay.
So what is so what cycle doesWall Street do best?
And when they're what what kindof cycles do Wall Street
investors do best in?
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Wall Street has obviously strategic capital that
I think can find long-termappreciation from a real estate
asset perspective.
So in terms of what type ofcycles, obviously lower cap rate
or excuse me, lower debt cyclesis where they'll continue to
thrive.
The cost of capital still istremendously higher than where
(03:30):
it was pre-COVID, but I thinkwe're coming back into a
normalization.
So as those Wall Street typeinvestors have flee to other
asset classes, it's not thatthey're not deploying capital.
They're just less risk-adverseto deploying into hospitality.
Now, resort, full service,lifestyle product, it still
continues to be attractive.
But the game where Starwood orother major firms used to deploy
(03:56):
billions of dollars into selectservice, I think is an extinct
practice that we might not eversee again in a material fashion.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Okay.
And, you know, one of the thingsthat we've been speaking about
is this gap between buyers andsellers, and that there are
sellers out there kind oftesting the market.
In your role where you'reworking so closely with sellers,
how do you decide who's a realseller who's motivated and
versus somebody else who's justkind of testing the waters as a
(04:26):
theoretical exercise?
Yeah, it's a good question.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
I think the answer to that is really unpacking the
definition of motivation.
And that could be subjective foreach individual owner and
operator.
That said, some of the driversof real motivation, in my view,
are capital pressure from yourLPs or outside investors to
return that capital.
In a post-COVID environment, alot of those funds have been
(04:49):
kicked down the can and peoplewant their money back candidly.
Um, capex pressure from brandsthat are commanding the owners
and operators to reinvestcapital into their assets.
And candidly, there's not much,if any, ROI on those renovation
jobs today or debt.
Debt will continue to be alooming pressure.
Um groups have found the abilityto refinance, but if you cannot,
(05:13):
and it's going to be aconsiderably higher basis and
it's not a cash out refi, andrather a cash in refi, the asset
will go to market and willhopefully sell.
So I think it's really what isyour motivation as a seller and
understanding what that reallymeans?
unknown (05:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
So I think no, no one, no sell all sellers are not
the same.
They have different motivations.
Correct.
Uh, today, if you're workingwith a prospective seller, are
you having to convince them thatthis is the right time to sell?
Or is this more just purelydriven on their intrinsic needs
and the situations like youmentioned?
SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
I think in rare cases it would be convincing
them, but I think people knowgenerally what the life cycle of
their asset is.
Now, our conversation ofconvincing buyers may be more so
in a creative fashion, meaningwe sold the hotel next door or
we sold a hotel down the streetand we know the market
intimately well.
And there may be somethingupcoming in the market that an
owner may not know about that wedo because given our real-time
(06:10):
experience and insight.
Or conversely, it's thereceiver, it's the capital, it's
the buyer.
Is there a specific new group ofcapital that's looking for that
asset?
And that may lend itself to whatwe'll call a creative solution
for sale.
The asset doesn't necessarilyhave to be marketed for a seller
to sell an asset and a buyer towalk away with a great deal as
(06:31):
well.
So we can operate in off-marketfashions as well, where we're
truly matching the bucket ofcapital buying versus the group
selling.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
And just, you know, everybody in in this conference
and otherwise has been talkingabout the case-shaped recovery
of the hospitality industry,right?
Luxury is doing really well,whereas other segments are not.
Are you seeing a similarsituation on the transaction
side of things in terms ofinterest in assets, cap rates at
which assets are transacting at?
SPEAKER_02 (07:00):
Yes, to some extent.
Uh Hunter is a firm we probablysold 115 hotels in 2025.
I would tell you 80% of thosewere inside a seven cap, and
maybe another 60% were inside asix cap.
So when you talk about aK-shaped economy, buyers are
buying at very low cap rateswhen you have multiples that can
(07:23):
back it up or basis that offersopportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Now, everybody when you know talks about kind of the
important markets.
They talk about New York City,of course, especially Manhattan.
We talk about Miami, we aretalking about places in Hawaii.
Are there other markets thatyou're seeing that people are
probably not focusing on likethey should at this point of
time?
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
Hunter as a firm, I think, tends to focus a little
more so on unique secondary,tertiary markets.
Obviously, the major CBDs aremarkets that we continue to
track.
Um they do have the mostpressure as well, whether it's
unionization, taxes, or other.
And so while we deploy ourknowledge and expertise into
those markets, looking for thenext great market is a very
(08:12):
tough conversation to have,right?
Is there a next Nashville or isthere next Asheville?
Is Texas still a great market?
Houston has fallen back, SanAntonio is weak.
Where are the pockets?
And I think for investors tofind the quote unquote next
great market is where they canagain deploy those operational
efficiencies to buy an asset ata six and take it to a 10, or
(08:35):
buy something with continuedyield with good back real
estate.
So I think the next great marketis really dependent on the
specific buyer.
Um, I I don't see a demographicshift right now anywhere in the
United States that would signalthat this is an up and coming
trend on a market basis today.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
And, you know, previous cycles have seen a lot
of international capital comeinto the country.
Is that something that you'reseeing now at this point of
time, or has there been achange?
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
There's international capital in waves.
I think right now, witheverything that's going on in
the Middle East, a lot of thatcapital has been locked up and
not deploying in any sort ofmeaningful fashion in the United
States today.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
All right.
So I'm going to switch focus.
You were a Shah alum.
You are a Shah alum.
And um when you look at studentstoday coming out of real estate
programs, are there skills thatyou wish that you think they
should have that you wish youhad when you graduated?
Like what are you looking forwhen students are graduating
(09:40):
from kind of real estateprograms today?
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Yeah, I think uh background knowledge in real
estate and understanding offinance is extremely important
today.
You know, when I graduated,everything was very operations
focused and operations heavy.
A great experience at Shaw andloved every minute of it.
But we didn't really have toomuch exposure into development
or accounting practices that youwould need to really underwrite
and value hotel today.
(10:03):
I think obviously Professor Band uh the dean have made a ton
of strides in the area, andwe're seeing uh a deeper skill
set and knowledge come out ofthe graduates today.
So I wish I had that candidlywhen I graduated, but um, trial
and error and maybe through thefire is best practice for some
of the uh the former graduates.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
Okay, great.
I think that's all we had timefor.
Spencer, thank you very much fortaking the time to join us.
Thank you for having me.
And wish you a fantastic IHIF.
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
That brings this episode to a close.
Thanks for joining us on theroad at the NYU International
Hospitality Investment Forum,and our thanks to our guests for
sharing their time and insight.
The Distinguished Podcast isproduced by the Boston
University School of HospitalityAdministration.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, follow or
subscribe wherever you listenand share it with a colleague or
(10:58):
a student who would find itvaluable.
To learn more about our programsand the work coming out of the
school, visit bu.edu slashhospitality.
We will see you next time.
Wall Street is selling, Main Street is buying,
and the space between is wherethe deals are getting done.
This is the distinguishedpodcast produced by the Boston
University School of HospitalityAdministration.
And for this series, we havetaken the show on the road to
the NYU InternationalHospitality Forum in New York
City.
Kashik Vardarajan, director ofour real estate program, spoke
(00:30):
with Spencer Davidson, SeniorVice President at Hunter
Advisors, a member of our RealEstate Advisory Council, and a
proud member of the Shaw classof 2012.
Spencer lives inside thetransaction market.
In this conversation, he unpackswhy Wall Street has turned net
seller while Main Street keepsbuying.
(00:51):
How to tell a motivated sellerfrom one just testing the water
where the next great marketmight be hiding, and the skills
he wishes he had walking out ofShaw.
Let's get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Hi everyone.
This is the Boston UniversitySchool of Hospitality
Administration's distinguishedpodcast at the NYU International
Hospitality Investment Forum inNew York City.
My name is Koshekwardarajan.
I'm an associate professor ofthe practice and director of the
real estate program at theschool.
This podcast I'm delighted towelcome Spencer Davidson, Senior
(01:28):
Vice President at HunterAdvisors, a Shah Alum from 2012,
and a member of our Real EstateAdvisory Council.
Spencer, welcome.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Thank you.
So, Spencer, thank you formaking the time to meet with us.
So let's dive right into whateverybody's talking about on the
transaction side of things.
(01:49):
So at your conference in Atlantain March, Teague Hunter made an
interesting observation.
He said that Wall Street isnegative and that they have been
net sellers while the buyers inthe future are going to be Main
Street.
Is that something that you'realso seeing directly in your
role?
And if yes, what's the reasonfor the divergence?
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
I think Teague was 100% right on the money with
that comment.
Um, the sellers today areabsolutely Wall Street, and the
buyers continue to be MainStreet.
What's driving that is really, Ithink, a dislocation between
ownership and management.
Pre-COVID, debt was 3%.
This used to be a select servicegame where you would be able to
(02:29):
buy hotels at attractive caprates, fee it up, run out good
revenues.
Unfortunately, in a post-COVIDenvironment, we've had a lot of
product that has not had capitalreinvested back into the asset
and fixed costs such as taxes,insurance, utilities, and labor
costs, which continue toskyrocket.
So the group that is mosteffectively able to manage those
(02:50):
expenses are your main streetowners and operators.
They continue to be able to findopportunity where Wall Street
simply cannot.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Okay.
So what is so what cycle doesWall Street do best?
And when they're what what kindof cycles do Wall Street
investors do best in?
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
Wall Street has obviously strategic capital that
I think can find long-termappreciation from a real estate
asset perspective.
So in terms of what type ofcycles, obviously lower cap rate
or excuse me, lower debt cyclesis where they'll continue to
thrive.
The cost of capital still istremendously higher than where
(03:30):
it was pre-COVID, but I thinkwe're coming back into a
normalization.
So as those Wall Street typeinvestors have flee to other
asset classes, it's not thatthey're not deploying capital.
They're just less risk-adverseto deploying into hospitality.
Now, resort, full service,lifestyle product, it still
continues to be attractive.
But the game where Starwood orother major firms used to deploy
(03:56):
billions of dollars into selectservice, I think is an extinct
practice that we might not eversee again in a material fashion.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Okay.
And, you know, one of the thingsthat we've been speaking about
is this gap between buyers andsellers, and that there are
sellers out there kind oftesting the market.
In your role where you'reworking so closely with sellers,
how do you decide who's a realseller who's motivated and
versus somebody else who's justkind of testing the waters as a
(04:26):
theoretical exercise?
Yeah, it's a good question.
SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
I think the answer to that is really unpacking the
definition of motivation.
And that could be subjective foreach individual owner and
operator.
That said, some of the driversof real motivation, in my view,
are capital pressure from yourLPs or outside investors to
return that capital.
In a post-COVID environment, alot of those funds have been
(04:49):
kicked down the can and peoplewant their money back candidly.
Um, capex pressure from brandsthat are commanding the owners
and operators to reinvestcapital into their assets.
And candidly, there's not much,if any, ROI on those renovation
jobs today or debt.
Debt will continue to be alooming pressure.
Um groups have found the abilityto refinance, but if you cannot,
(05:13):
and it's going to be aconsiderably higher basis and
it's not a cash out refi, andrather a cash in refi, the asset
will go to market and willhopefully sell.
So I think it's really what isyour motivation as a seller and
understanding what that reallymeans?
unknown (05:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
So I think no, no one, no sell all sellers are not
the same.
They have different motivations.
Correct.
Uh, today, if you're workingwith a prospective seller, are
you having to convince them thatthis is the right time to sell?
Or is this more just purelydriven on their intrinsic needs
and the situations like youmentioned?
SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
I think in rare cases it would be convincing
them, but I think people knowgenerally what the life cycle of
their asset is.
Now, our conversation ofconvincing buyers may be more so
in a creative fashion, meaningwe sold the hotel next door or
we sold a hotel down the streetand we know the market
intimately well.
And there may be somethingupcoming in the market that an
owner may not know about that wedo because given our real-time
(06:10):
experience and insight.
Or conversely, it's thereceiver, it's the capital, it's
the buyer.
Is there a specific new group ofcapital that's looking for that
asset?
And that may lend itself to whatwe'll call a creative solution
for sale.
The asset doesn't necessarilyhave to be marketed for a seller
to sell an asset and a buyer towalk away with a great deal as
(06:31):
well.
So we can operate in off-marketfashions as well, where we're
truly matching the bucket ofcapital buying versus the group
selling.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
And just, you know, everybody in in this conference
and otherwise has been talkingabout the case-shaped recovery
of the hospitality industry,right?
Luxury is doing really well,whereas other segments are not.
Are you seeing a similarsituation on the transaction
side of things in terms ofinterest in assets, cap rates at
which assets are transacting at?
SPEAKER_02 (07:00):
Yes, to some extent.
Uh Hunter is a firm we probablysold 115 hotels in 2025.
I would tell you 80% of thosewere inside a seven cap, and
maybe another 60% were inside asix cap.
So when you talk about aK-shaped economy, buyers are
buying at very low cap rateswhen you have multiples that can
(07:23):
back it up or basis that offersopportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Now, everybody when you know talks about kind of the
important markets.
They talk about New York City,of course, especially Manhattan.
We talk about Miami, we aretalking about places in Hawaii.
Are there other markets thatyou're seeing that people are
probably not focusing on likethey should at this point of
time?
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
Hunter as a firm, I think, tends to focus a little
more so on unique secondary,tertiary markets.
Obviously, the major CBDs aremarkets that we continue to
track.
Um they do have the mostpressure as well, whether it's
unionization, taxes, or other.
And so while we deploy ourknowledge and expertise into
those markets, looking for thenext great market is a very
(08:12):
tough conversation to have,right?
Is there a next Nashville or isthere next Asheville?
Is Texas still a great market?
Houston has fallen back, SanAntonio is weak.
Where are the pockets?
And I think for investors tofind the quote unquote next
great market is where they canagain deploy those operational
efficiencies to buy an asset ata six and take it to a 10, or
(08:35):
buy something with continuedyield with good back real
estate.
So I think the next great marketis really dependent on the
specific buyer.
Um, I I don't see a demographicshift right now anywhere in the
United States that would signalthat this is an up and coming
trend on a market basis today.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
And, you know, previous cycles have seen a lot
of international capital comeinto the country.
Is that something that you'reseeing now at this point of
time, or has there been achange?
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
There's international capital in waves.
I think right now, witheverything that's going on in
the Middle East, a lot of thatcapital has been locked up and
not deploying in any sort ofmeaningful fashion in the United
States today.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
All right.
So I'm going to switch focus.
You were a Shah alum.
You are a Shah alum.
And um when you look at studentstoday coming out of real estate
programs, are there skills thatyou wish that you think they
should have that you wish youhad when you graduated?
Like what are you looking forwhen students are graduating
(09:40):
from kind of real estateprograms today?
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Yeah, I think uh background knowledge in real
estate and understanding offinance is extremely important
today.
You know, when I graduated,everything was very operations
focused and operations heavy.
A great experience at Shaw andloved every minute of it.
But we didn't really have toomuch exposure into development
or accounting practices that youwould need to really underwrite
and value hotel today.
(10:03):
I think obviously Professor Band uh the dean have made a ton
of strides in the area, andwe're seeing uh a deeper skill
set and knowledge come out ofthe graduates today.
So I wish I had that candidlywhen I graduated, but um, trial
and error and maybe through thefire is best practice for some
of the uh the former graduates.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
Okay, great.
I think that's all we had timefor.
Spencer, thank you very much fortaking the time to join us.
Thank you for having me.
And wish you a fantastic IHIF.
Thank you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
That brings this episode to a close.
Thanks for joining us on theroad at the NYU International
Hospitality Investment Forum,and our thanks to our guests for
sharing their time and insight.
The Distinguished Podcast isproduced by the Boston
University School of HospitalityAdministration.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, follow or
subscribe wherever you listenand share it with a colleague or
(10:58):
a student who would find itvaluable.
To learn more about our programsand the work coming out of the
school, visit bu.edu slashhospitality.
We will see you next time.
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