When Sarah Diehl’s corporate HR role was eliminated, she called it “the best thing that could have happened.” Out of that setback came Empowered Hospitality, a consulting firm dedicated to helping restaurants and hotels build resilient, people-first teams.
In this conversation with Dean Arun Upneja, Sarah shares her four-pillar framework for talent management and explains why culture, onboarding, and employee experience are the true engines of success, whether you’re leading a small neighborhood restaurant or a billion-dollar resort. Her insights remind us that in hospitality, strategy isn’t just about operations or service standards, it’s about how you lead, how you listen, and how you create workplaces where people want to stay and grow.
The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration.
Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Executive Director of Strategic Operations and Corporate Relations
Research and Content Creation: Lan Lu
Marketing: Anne Dawson
Editing: Isabella Laikin and James Leon
Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Imagine this.
You've risen from being one ofthe youngest journal managers at
a$10 million restaurant to acorporate HR director role.
You are on a clear path.
And then suddenly your positionis eliminated.
For many, that's the end of achapter.
For Sarah Deal, it was arevelation.
She even called it the bestthing that could have happened.
(00:29):
Welcome back to TheDistinguished, where we learn
from leaders at every level ofthe hospitality industry.
I'm Arunupneja, Dean of the BUSchool of Hospitality.
Here at our school, our guidingprinciple is experience
innovation.
The idea that hospitality isn'tjust a service, it's a strategic
(00:50):
mindset that can solve problemsand build loyalty.
Our guest today, Sarah Deal, isthe living embodiment of that
idea.
When her corporate role waseliminated, she uncovered a
critical flaw in the industry.
Small independent operatorsdesperately needed senior human
(01:11):
resources, but couldn't afford afull-time executive.
So she started turning her ownjob interviews into impromptu
consulting sessions, diagnosingproblems, and designing
solutions on the spot.
From that insight, she builtEmpowered Hospitality, a firm
designed to be the exact answerto the problem she discovered.
(01:34):
Her work is a masterclass inexperience innovation applied to
the most critical component ofany hospitality business, its
people.
Sarah is a Yale graduate, a 2021Tory Birch Foundation Fellow, a
voice for the James BeardFoundation, and a guest lecturer
right here at our school.
(01:56):
Sarah, welcome to theDistinguished Podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for
your kind words.
I'm very flattered.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
You've built an amazing company, and we are very
happy that you're here.
Okay, so let's jump right in.
And you've written thatemployees are in the driver's
seat like never before.
Many operators see this as acrisis, but you see it as an
opportunity.
So can you expand on how thispower shift acts as a forcing
(02:26):
function that ultimatelybenefits our industry?
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Of course.
So one thing that's reallyinteresting about employment in
our industry is the shift thatresulted from the pandemic.
We have the largest shortage intalent of any industry in the
country.
And what that has done is reallyput the onus on employers to
(02:49):
take care of their employees, toretain them, to make a place
where they can be happy andthrive long term.
So whereas before the pandemic,we often saw a revolving door of
talent.
Now we see a lot of employersawakening to this obligation
they have to care for theirteam, to provide basic benefits,
(03:12):
to provide a livable wage, toprovide a predictable schedule.
Some of that is mandated from aregulatory perspective.
So we we have to evolve and keepup with the laws as they're
changing around minimum payrequirements, scheduling, et
cetera.
But a lot of it is more of acultural shift and things that
(03:34):
employees are more empowered todemand of their workplaces than
they were before.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Okay, so we're gonna get into a whole lot of these
things, but let's just start offby um telling us where do you
see the biggest disconnectbetween what employers think
they're offering versus whatemployees are experiencing or
even need?
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
I think the biggest disconnect is the fundamentals,
actually.
I think very often it's buzzyand kind of a current theme to
talk about mental health, aboutcreative benefits like pet
insurance or some of those moreesoteric things that might
(04:18):
attract employees to a job.
What employers don't talk aboutas much, but I think are much
more important, are the basicthings like paying people on
time and accurately.
Having an HR department.
So someone has a resource totalk to if they run into a
challenge or an issue, providinga clear roadmap for how someone
(04:38):
progresses through a company,some of those really basic
things that are just a matter ofthe nuts and bolts of HR, I
think are holding a lot ofemployers back without them even
realizing it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
So if employee needs have fundamentally evolved and
they're very different from whatthey were before, so what does
that mean for the traditionaltop-down management that
characterizes our industry,which has historically been
true?
And what does a modern adaptiveleader look like?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Yeah, such a good question.
I think it's actually less thatthe needs have changed and more
that employees feel empowered toask for whatever those needs
are.
So I think a modern adaptiveleader is one who listens, most
importantly.
What employees need or aredemanding today from employers
(05:31):
will not be the same in three orfour years.
So, how do we keep up with thatas leaders?
We have to be listeningconsistently and genuinely to
what our employees want and needand delivering on those
requests.
So a lot of the work we do isconducting surveys.
It's hosting one-on-oneinterviews, it's really trying
(05:53):
to drill down into not whatemployers think employees want,
like pet insurance, like some ofthose buzzier benefits, but what
employees actually need thatthey're not getting.
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
Okay, so I'm gonna uh come back to this in in more
detail, but let's just talkabout, and I think you briefly
mentioned it earlier, which isum, you know, people just think,
okay, compensation is the wayfor retention, and you know,
retention is a big issue.
You mentioned it at thebeginning.
So, what are one of uh just saya couple of handful of
practices, very impactfulpractices that can uh boost
(06:28):
retention for particularly forsmall restaurant operators?
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
Yeah, so I think the first I would say just to
reinforce is doing thefundamentals well.
So paying people accurately andon time, having basic benefits,
offering health insurance, forexample, at a minimum, should be
a requirement of every business,no matter how big or small.
Things like having a culturethat encourages transparency and
(06:55):
where all people feel welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
So let's move on to.
I know you recently wrote anoutstanding article for the
Boston Hospitality Review.
So thank you for writing for ourmagazine.
It's titled Cultivating ThrivingHospitality Teams in the Post
Pandemic World.
So, in that article, you'vedetailed a clear four-pillar
framework for talent managementthat can serve as a practical
(07:19):
playbook for hospitalityleaders.
So I want to dive into thosefour pillars.
Let's start with the first one.
So, can you describe, brieflydescribe the first pillar, which
is sourcing and selection?
And my first question on that isyou advocate recruiting for
cultural fit by beingtransparent about companies,
quirks, and challenges.
(07:40):
And the question is, how do youcoach a leader to identify and
articulate their authenticemployer brand, especially if
you're worried that it mightscare some candidates away?
SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Right, right.
I think that the pressure toappeal to all candidates is very
real.
And managers are they're oftenin the position of being a
salesperson for their business,trying to get desperately find
someone to fill open shifts.
So it is difficult.
I think the key is really toarticulate at a leadership level
(08:13):
what those core values are, whatyour purpose is as an
organization, make sure that'sdisseminated throughout your
team, and then also identifywhat traits really actually
predict success within yourteam.
So, as an example, someone whowould be incredibly high
(08:33):
performing in a large corporaterestaurant group might not do as
well in an independentchef-driven restaurant.
What are those core competenciesor personality traits that
really makes them fit within oneenvironment and not another?
The best way to do that is tolook at your current top
performers.
So we all know within our teamwho is who's really crushing it
(08:57):
and who is not.
And what is it, what are thosecommon threads that unite all of
those really high-performingindividuals?
It may not be the things youexpect.
It might not be skills orcompetencies, it might be
something softer, like theirvalues or their sense of
hospitality.
So really putting a finger onthose things and then in my mind
(09:21):
creating tools and processesthat make sure you can't miss
any of those details.
So questions oriented aroundeach of your core values, for
example, or an assessment toolthat measures those key traits
that predict success within yourorganization.
I think there's an art and ascience to it, but the science
(09:42):
is once you know what thoseattributes are, how can you make
sure that any manager can sitdown with that interview guide
and ask the right questions?
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
So I'm curious to see with your experience, what
percentage of employers actuallygo out with the idea that
they're going to determine whatthe brand is, and they can
articulate what they want andwhat it is versus those that let
nature take its course and thenthey have an employer brand.
They may not have created it,but they end up with one.
(10:17):
And how many people can actuallyeven articulate whether either
way they got to the employerbrand?
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
I think the majority of businesses fall somewhere in
between where they realize atsome point early on that they
haven't done the work to definewho they are, and they backtrack
to attempt to do that based onpeople, frankly, that they got
lucky with.
So they're backtracking to say,all right, who are the people
(10:45):
who have come to embody ourbrand who we feel embody our
brand?
And then can we define what thatis?
Um few start with a clear ideaof their employer brand and fit
people into that.
Because I think also that isn'tbuilt off of reality.
And what you find when youactually go into the market and
(11:06):
start hiring restaurantemployees is what you think
you're looking for might not beas available, right?
There's a reality.
We have to staff ourrestaurants, we have to staff
our businesses.
So we have to make sure thatwhat we idealize as our employer
brand, we can actually deliver.
unknown (11:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Um, so there is another landmine here that I
want to sort of bring out sothat we we discuss it, which is
uh when you talk about culturalfit, um, unless we are very
careful, um, cultural fit couldimply people who look like me or
look like, you know.
Um, and so then you're gonna endup with.
So let's define what do you meanby cultural fit so that we don't
(11:49):
end up with, you know, thisage-old problem of hiding
everyone who looks like me.
SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Yes, that that's right.
Culture can be synonymous withhomogeny, and that's dangerous
in any business.
I think the key is to understandthat culture in the context of
someone's personal life oftenmeans their their their
historical culture, right?
Their their origin or theirethnicity or the the kind of
(12:18):
mores and values that they wereraised with.
Culture in the context of abusiness is very different.
Culture in a business means whatdo we collectively value as a
team, and that has nothing to dowith where someone comes from.
So I think as long as we'redistinguishing between those
two, I think that's why the useof the word family is also
(12:38):
problematic when it comes to aworkplace, because we're not
we're not a family, we're notall from the same place.
We choose to come togetherbecause we believe in the same
things.
And clearly defining what thosevalues are is the first step to
that.
If they're not clearly defined,you fall back on I want to hire
someone like me.
(12:58):
I want to hire someone from thesame background, right?
Not I want to hire someone whobelieves the same things I
believe in.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Okay.
So let's move on to the secondpillar, which is onboarding as a
strategic imperative and thefirst 90 days.
So let's set the stage andbriefly describe what you mean
by onboarding.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
So, yeah, onboarding is everything from the
engagement with a candidate onceyou've offered them the job
prior to their first day.
So all the paperwork you'resending them, all the
communications that you sharewith them through their first
day, filling out paperwork,meeting with their trainer,
going over their trainingschedule, all the way through,
(13:39):
in my mind, when you've finishedsetting them up for success and
they're ready to run solo intheir first shift.
So onboarding is not just on dayone sitting and filling out your
paperwork with HR.
It's much more complex and itinvolves a lot more key
stakeholders from within therestaurant team as well.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
Now you've also talked about the small personal
moments during the onboardingprocess.
Can you elaborate on that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Yes.
So we've found we we've beenpart of a program in New York
City that has onboarded andtrained over 250 line cooks who
come from no experience andlearn how to work in a kitchen
and then get placed at some ofNew York City's best
restaurants.
What we've learned through thatis predictors of success are
(14:31):
things like having a tour of therestaurant on your first day,
knowing who your manager is.
As silly as that sounds, butmeeting your manager on your
first day, knowing who an HR canhelp you if you have a question
about your paperwork or if youhave a concern about someone
you're working with, having abuddy during training, someone
who will is a colleague, so nota manager, but a colleague who
(14:55):
will help you if you're havingtrouble finding something, or if
there's terminology you don'tunderstand, or if you're having
an interpersonal challenge withsomeone.
So those are four specificexamples of some of those really
simple things we've foundstatistically really contribute
to someone's longevity at acompany.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
So when you talk about these personal moments, uh
at the same time, we have a veryhighly structured onboarding
process.
Uh, the moments can bespontaneous and unplanned.
So, how do you reconcile thosetwo ideas?
Can structure and genuineconnection really coexist in
(15:36):
onboarding?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah, oh, that's a great question.
I mean, the the personalconnection to me is the easy
part.
Like that's what weaves all ofthose more technical components
together.
It's the interaction that theyget from their trainer.
So the person who you've chosenas a representative of their
position and the care that thatperson takes in training them.
(16:00):
Um, it's the initial hello thatthey get from their manager when
they're first introduced.
It's the culture of welcomingpeople in pre-shift or
celebrating, you know, positiveguest reviews in pre-shift.
So some of those, thoseniceties, those like, again,
those small interactions, butthat reinforce that someone's
(16:21):
welcome.
I think those are kind of innateto us in hospitality and often
less of a challenge than livingwithin that system and being
disciplined about checking allof the boxes.
Um, but those are certainlythings to be very mindful of as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
But then aren't you afraid that they're going to
take some of those habits whichare causing these people to be
good cultural ambassadors forthe organization, but not the
most effective.
You want them learning from themost effective.
So you have to somehow balancethese two perspectives, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Yeah, you do.
It's rare to find thatcombination.
But um, those of us who havemanaged restaurants know you can
identify that person on yourstaff who both is passionate
about the culture and ispassionate about the details and
passionate about executing theprocess correctly.
(17:13):
Um, I think the best way to goabout that is to have a train
the trainer program.
So if you have your training,you know, let's say your two or
three-week training program fora line level staff member, you
aren't good, you aren't going tojust hand that to an employee
and say, here, now you'reresponsible for teaching someone
(17:33):
how to do this.
You need to teach them how toteach that person.
So some of that is giving themthe technical know-how of what
boxes to check when, thetoolkit.
So here are your menudescriptions, here are your
steps of service, these are allof the technical things you need
to follow.
Some of it is also ensuring, asthey're being trained to use
(17:55):
those resources, that they'reexcited about it and they're
they genuinely want to do it.
I think the key is take a cuefrom them.
If they don't seem like they'rereally naturally excited and
gravitating towards thatresponsibility, they're probably
not the right person.
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Right.
So in addition to teaching aboutthe processes and the structures
and the job, you're also makingsure that they, the, the, the
new employees feel an emotionalconnection to the organization.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Right.
I would say too, there's a checkand balance in terms of who,
aside from the trainer, is thatnew employee interacting with.
So making sure that the manageror whoever that employee will
ultimately report to is alsospending time with them,
reinforcing, going through thechecklist, reinforcing the
culture, speaking to those samethings, which we hope that the
(18:45):
trainer has covered.
But just in case, this is ourextra insurance to make sure
that all of those key detailshave been reviewed.
Yeah, one thing I would suggestthat we use at Empowered is we
have some of the interviewprocess that is scripted, not
all of it, but there are keythings we want to make sure
every candidate understandsabout our business, specifically
(19:08):
what makes it challenging.
And we actually write those outin our interview guide to make
sure that whoever is conductingthat interview reviews those key
points.
So that's one thing you can doin any business, in any
industry, is making sure thatthe talk track about your
business and about the jobspecifically is consistent and
(19:30):
that every candidate is hearingsome of the same key points,
basically.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Right.
So you have, since you areworking with so many different
restaurants, there's obviously adifference in the organization
culture of each place.
And what you're suggesting hereis that everyone who's
interviewing is sort of, youknow, speaking from the same
template.
But how much of a discrepancy doyou find between what people say
(20:00):
their organization is andeveryone is reading what it
actually is?
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Yeah, that's an exercise we do with a lot of our
clients is going back to theircore values.
It's amazing how manyorganizations have not revisited
their core values in years.
So, you know, as we know,culture changes.
Culture to me is the sum totalof the belief systems of all the
(20:26):
people you have on your team.
So if you're not constantlychecking against that culture
and making sure that's stillreally what your team is
invested in, you may be sayingone thing and doing another, to
your point.
So the key is to not think thatyour values are static.
When we come in, sometimes thefirst thing we do is we ask the
(20:47):
team, what do you think yourcore values are?
Do you know what they are?
Do you see that those are thevalues that are actually being
lived on a day-to-day basis?
And often the answer is no.
So, how do we close that gap?
Either we adjust the values tobetter reflect what the team
currently is prioritizing, or wehave to look at where our
(21:08):
actions fall short of our valuesand how we better align those,
which can be about a lot ofdifferent things.
It can be about leadership, notpracticing what they preach.
It can be about hiring peoplewho maybe don't ascribe to those
values in the way we would like,or it could be simple things
like one of our values ishospitality, but our employee
(21:32):
dressing room is a mess, andwe're not showing hospitality to
our own team, and thereforethey're not passing that along
to our guests.
So there are a lot of differentkind of levers to pull to
influence culture, but I thinkthe biggest thing back to
listening, the biggest thing isto really understand whether the
values that you say you believein are actually the values that
(21:52):
your team is living by.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
So let's move to the third pillar, which is learning
and development.
So it's gone from being a niceto have.
Perk into a central engine of ahigh fair and a high performing
culture.
So just to set the stage, uhtalk about LND.
What is, from your perspective,learning and development?
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Yeah, so to me, simply put, learning and
development is how an individualprogresses and grows within an
organization.
So that's about both theresources that you provide to
them to increase theircapability, to increase their
knowledge and their skills, andit's about that roadmap that
(22:34):
tells them how to get from wherethey are today to where they
want to go professionally, whichis the development part.
So, you know, what we see oftenis there's a very casual,
unstructured approach tolearning and development.
It's voluntary, it's largelydriven by an individual
employee's desire to learn andto stretch and to seek out those
(22:58):
learning opportunities.
When you make it really easy foremployees to learn, you make it
accessible, you build astructure around it, that means
that not just your mostmotivated employees will
benefit.
It means that anyone who seesthemselves potentially
developing and staying with anorganization understand how to
(23:20):
get from one step to the next,and then what are the resources
that will help them get there.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
So you uh so you are trying to link um essentially um
learning and development tocompetency pay bands, and you
say you learn these things andthis is where your compensation
goes to, right?
Yeah.
Um but you've chosen probablyone of the most difficult
industries to work with.
If you're looking at smallrestaurants, there is very
(23:47):
limited avenue for if you'rehired as a server, um, you know,
and and you know, your managersare staying put for a long time,
there's not a whole lot whereyou can go.
SPEAKER_00 (23:59):
Right.
Yes.
Sometimes, sometimes developmentinternally can be limited in a
very small company.
There are some benefits as well,though.
Cross-training is a lot easierin some sense because you have a
small team, you can jump in andhelp.
It's a lot more fluid in thatway.
It's not bureaucratic.
(24:19):
It's easy for you to, hey, ifyou're really capable, you're
going to naturally get moreresponsibility.
That's just how it works.
Right.
That was how I grew in HR.
I started as the director oftraining in my restaurant group.
No one was in HR, and I juststarted doing it.
And that was the beginning ofhow I transitioned in my career.
So I think those positives areimportant to highlight in
(24:42):
working within a smallindependent organization, but
also understand that growthoutside of the company can
sometimes be a natural nextstep, and it's not something to
be afraid of.
So a lot of particularly cookswho come into the industry, they
look to bounce between, youknow, one restaurant to the next
to hone their skill set and getexposure to different
(25:05):
techniques.
That's not bad.
I think, you know, if we'reafraid of that and we're trying
to discourage that, we're doingthem a disservice.
And we're also doing ourselves adisservice by ignoring that this
is how it works.
So I think another way to lookat development is some external
development is natural and it'spositive.
(25:25):
Can you bring that to your teamrather than acting like it
doesn't exist?
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Um, so the what you're describing is a
population of employees that areworking in restaurants and they
are eager or hungry for learningand they want to progress in
life.
But then there is also there isa core group of employees who've
been doing this for decades.
And what kind of first of all,in your client, what percentage
(25:56):
are these hardcore people whohave been doing this for a long
time?
And you talk to them aboutcross-training, and they're
they're like, Where are youcoming from?
You have no idea.
I'm just gonna want to come workand go home.
Yeah.
So I'm just curious, what is thepercentage of those kind of
employees?
SPEAKER_00 (26:12):
A small percentage.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
A small loyalty.
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
A small percentage and and growing smaller because
I think the generational shiftis really playing a role in
loyalty, what loyalty means inthe industry.
Gen Z in particular are verygrowth-oriented, like any new
generation coming into theworkforce.
We were too as millennials.
(26:35):
I remember hearing how entitledwe were because we wanted to be
managers in a year or two.
But um, but truthfully, that'skind of a normal evolution as
people come in and grow andmature within their careers.
I think that the biggest thingto me is just ensuring that
there isn't a one-size-fits-allapproach to development.
(26:57):
To your point, a senior serveror manager who has chosen this
as a career but is very happydoing what they're doing might
not opt in to all of thedevelopmental opportunities.
That's okay.
That's not necessarily foreveryone.
But providing those growthopportunities for individuals
(27:17):
who are really motivated by thatis important.
Is it?
Yes.
Same thing with benefits.
Not everyone's going to wanttraditional health benefits, but
providing those for theemployees who do, and then
providing other benefits like uhtuition reimbursement, or um,
you know, again, training orlearning and
(27:37):
development-oriented benefitsfor those who are younger in
their careers, it allows bothgroups to feel satisfied at work
in very different ways.
They're kind of choosing whatfits their own lifestyle best.
SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
So the model that you're describing seems to
create a very clear andequitable roadmap for
advancement.
Um, does it lead to reduction inunconscious bias in promotion
pays, raises?
SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
Yes, I think what we could see if there were not a
system like that in place isfavoritism and managers
gravitating towards people whoremind them of themselves.
So I do think that reallylooking at it almost like a menu
of different opportunities,benefits, perks that people can
(28:31):
choose what best fits their ownlifestyle and their own goals is
a much less um, it's much lessprone to bias than some of the
traditional ways that we lookedat development.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Okay, so let's move to the fourth pillar, which is
the employer center,employee-centric approach.
So let's just briefly define itbefore I start asking my
questions.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Yeah, so to me, it's actually exactly what we were
just talking about.
It's the fact that having agreat experience and thriving at
work does not look the same foreveryone.
And whether it's a generationaldifference or a cultural
difference or a difference in acareer trajectory that someone
(29:15):
is aiming for, anemployee-centric approach says
we're not giving you a setprescriptive menu of all the
things you need to follow.
We want to make sure you'realigned from a cultural
perspective and that we believein the same things, but it's
kind of a choose your ownadventure.
You decide what direction youwant to go, how fast you want to
(29:37):
progress, what benefits you wantto enroll in.
And we're gonna listen to youalso in case what you really
need is not something we'reoffering.
So it's that constant iterationof listening, introducing kind
of new solutions, new perks, newbenefits that your employees
value, and allowing them to optinto whatever they value.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
So you also talk about um moving past the leave
your issues at door philosophythat has long permeated our and
traditional workspaces for along time.
So, how can a leader begin tocreate psychological safety
where employees seen heard andsupported and safe without
(30:21):
crossing professionalboundaries?
SPEAKER_00 (30:23):
Yeah, that's a really interesting one and a big
shift that we've seen since thepandemic because the social
movements that people livedthrough during the pandemic that
have continued since, some ofthe political anxiety and
unrest, it's very difficult forpeople to leave that at the
(30:45):
door.
And in fact, especially theyounger generation in the
workforce, they want theiremployer to be more than just a
professional relationship.
They actually want thatpsychological support, the
emotional support.
So it's uh, I think a little bitof a fallacy to think that we
(31:05):
can really separate the two.
Um, I was speaking a few monthsago at a conference on uh mental
health and benefits in theindustry specifically, and I
told a story about a server whocame to me when I was a new
manager.
I was maybe a year or two intomy career, and she pulled me
aside and she told me she was analcoholic.
(31:28):
And I had no idea how tonavigate that.
I obviously felt for her.
I didn't have any personalexperience with substance abuse,
so I couldn't really advise hereffectively.
But what I could do was listenand support her and say, you
know, if you need help, we'llgive you the time to get help.
(31:49):
And I think that we can do a lotas employers.
We kind of underestimatesometimes the impact of just
listening and being a genuineemotional support, just
expressing that support tosomeone who maybe doesn't hear
that from other parts of theirlife.
And then knowing thelimitations, I'm not a
(32:11):
psychiatrist, I'm not a mentalhealth professional, but let me
connect you with someone who canhelp you.
So I think it's important toalways have a toolkit of other
professionals who can get moreinvolved with things that are
beyond your expertise.
But the first step is notdisregarding when someone comes
(32:32):
to you with a challenge.
I think one other thing we cando as leaders is just be open
about our own struggles and ourown challenges and making sure
that the team knows that it'snot easy to come to work every
day with a positive attitude.
Sometimes it's a struggle, andthat's all right.
But once we're here, we have tosupport each other and make sure
(32:53):
that we're delivering on ourpromise to our customers.
SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
Okay, so you talked about two different things.
One is um, you know, the globalsituation, the political um
developments that are takingplace, and and employees want to
come and see some resonance withthe employer about those.
Um and we have seen so manyinstances in the past where
(33:18):
employees will try to forcetheir employers to take a stance
on some, you know, won't go intospecifics, but um uh you know,
Google is there one, there's alot of employees, um, and many
other big companies is an icecream company I can think of,
where the company is taking astance or not taking a stance.
So but some companies might say,look, we are here to do business
(33:43):
and we are not gonna take astance one way or the other.
So, how do you then help thoseemployees see that it is not,
you know, the role of thecompany to take, but the
employees are expecting it.
So, how do you sort of balancethose perspectives?
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
I don't think you have to be political as a
company.
Okay.
Um, this is a balancing act forus at Empowered because we
support so many differentcompanies with so many different
value systems.
We are very careful about whatwe say, especially on political
or kind of uh social topics.
But I think you do need to knowit's a decision.
(34:24):
So if you're an organizationthat is strongly aligned with a
particular social or politicalpurpose, you'll likely attract
employees who share that beliefsystem, and that's not bad.
It just means that your talentpool is influenced by the values
that you put out in theenvironment.
Same thing with you beingpolitically impartial.
(34:45):
And if you say, hey, we're notwearing, you know, t-shirts with
political statements, we're nottalking about politics at work,
not everyone will agree withthat.
And those people might leave,and that's okay.
Again, there are otherorganizations that they might be
better aligned with that wouldbe more political.
Right.
So I think the key is it again,back to the core values is
(35:06):
really understanding what youwant to take a stand on and what
you want to be neutral on.
And it's really okay.
It's just that that willdetermine the type of people who
gravitate towards you as acompany.
SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
So this is excellent advice.
But I'm gonna flip the script alittle bit and say, how do you
prevent the personal problemsand issues?
Since we are now inviting themsaying, look, you don't have to
leave your personal issues atthe door.
They come in, they bring theminto it, then how do you um stop
(35:39):
those issues or uh prevent thosefrom overwhelming the
professional situation you'rein?
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Yeah, so there is a time and place first to have
those conversations.
I think it is while it'simportant to listen and to be
empathetic, your firstcommitment as a manager or
leader is to your entire team.
So a really good and helpfulanecdote that I heard recently
(36:07):
from a restaurant operator was asimilar incident.
It was an employee who wasstruggling with substance abuse,
and she really wanted to helpthem.
And the gut check for her was isthis person being present within
our team damaging our overalldynamic as a team more than it
(36:29):
is helping them?
And so I think to your questionabout where is the boundary and
how do I figure out kind ofwhere it's appropriate to have
those more personal engagements?
The biggest measure or barometerfor that is how is that
impacting the greater team andour ability to run a successful
(36:50):
business?
Because that's not just aboutone person, it's about the
collective good.
And if one person is draggingthe team down or bringing toxic
energy or being unreliable in away that's negatively impacting
others, you have to hold themaccountable to the same set of
standards as well.
unknown (37:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
So how do you make culture and belonging
quantifiable?
I mean, there are suchfeel-good, subjective kind of,
you know, yeah, I feel goodabout this organization.
I I feel I fit in, but how do Inow go about quantifying it?
SPEAKER_00 (37:27):
So I so we do a lot of employee surveys, and I find
that very helpful to quantifythe different dimensions of
culture and how employees areactually feeling about those.
So some of the the a usefulguideline is Gallup's 12
question survey.
There they've kind of patentedthis methodology and these 12
(37:50):
questions that best predictengagement.
Things like, I have a bestfriend at work, things like my
leaders, you know, regularlyrecognize my performance, things
like someone at work cares aboutmy professional development.
So asking about those underlyingquestions can tell us a lot
about culture and howeffectively that culture is
(38:11):
really disseminated throughoutthe team.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
So, you know, culture is a very interesting uh
subject because there are not awhole lot of employers that
actually actively, proactivelygo talk about so, okay, this is
the culture that we want in ourcompany and go um and sort of
invest in it.
So usually what is the point orthe pain point in which
(38:37):
operators say, okay, enough isenough.
I need to now focus on this onculture.
SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
Yeah, it's when the it's when the misalignment
becomes damaging.
And that can mean a couple ofthings.
It can mean turnover is high.
It can mean there's a lot ofinterpersonal conflict within
departments or within teams.
It could be that employees aretelling you they're staying, but
they're not engaged in work.
(39:04):
It could be managers saying theyfeel disempowered.
It could be harassment anddiscrimination, more serious
issues like that.
Those are all things that tellus that culture isn't healthy.
And then the question is, how dowe go in and actually fix that,
which is a much more complexquestion.
SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
Right.
Um, have you seen examples ofrestaurant operators who did not
invest in over time discoveredthey have a lot of problems and
now have become believers?
Do you see that transformationhappening?
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
Yeah, I do.
And I I actually think moreoften it's companies that had a
healthy culture just by accidentor naturally, particularly when
they were small and the ownerscould touch and feel every part
of the business.
They then grow to a certainpoint where they can't be
(39:57):
actively involved in every uhteam or touching every
restaurant regularly.
That's where culture reallystarts to unravel.
So I would say today, more thanever, businesses are aware that
culture is important becauseit's harder to find staff.
And so if someone leaves becauseculture is unhealthy, you're not
(40:19):
finding replacement for them aseasily as we could in the past.
But I think really back to yourquestion, leaders who see those
indications that people areunhappy or that the business is
suffering because culture is nothealthy, they are more open to
(40:40):
exploring what's happening andreally defining culture, some of
them for the first time.
Some of these are very, verylong-standing organizations.
I just spoke with one last weekthat's been around for over 30
years.
They said, we've always had agreat culture.
And all of a sudden, in the pastcouple of years, coming back
(41:01):
from the pandemic, we'restarting to see that
interpersonal conflict.
People who are working remotelynow feel less dis less connected
to our mission and our values,and that's creating a lot of
problems.
So that's more often than nothow these things are coming to
our attention.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
What advice do you have for students who want to
become and show up as strongprofessionals, protecting their
values and knowing what not totolerate?
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Well, having a clear idea of what your values are
first is important.
And I don't know that we oftensit down and go through that
exercise to say, what are mydeal breakers?
Like what are the things that Iactually would require of a
workplace?
It's especially hard to knowthat when you're a new, you
know, new worker entering theworkforce for the first time.
(41:52):
How do you know what thosestandards are?
You haven't really been exposedto the different alternatives.
So I think that to start, it'sreally looking at the
environments you've experiencedin your life.
It could be school, it could bea sport that you've played, it
could be a volunteer activity,and identify in those what were
(42:13):
the things that really enabledyou to thrive.
And then look for those in yourworkplaces moving forward.
Um, and the other thing I wouldsay is just not being afraid to
leave because you may love theidea of a company or the values
of a company, but if you get,for example, if you're working
for a manager who doesn'tascribe to those same values,
(42:36):
doesn't live those values day today, it can be a really, really
harmful and kind of detrimentalexperience.
And more often than not, I thinkpeople don't feel empowered to
leave those situations quickly.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yeah, so we require our students to do a couple of
different internships and thenwe have extended discussions
about what they've observed inthose companies, what they
liked, what they didn't like,what their own personal values.
So hopefully we are doing someof that.
Uh but yes, it's important to domore.
So you know, um you mentionedyou at some point a few minutes
(43:19):
ago, you mentioned thatsometimes leaders discover that
their culture is no longerworking or you know the problems
start accumulating.
So, how do leaders recognizethat the culture is not working?
Um, what kind of question shouldthey be asking themselves to
know whether they are they'veestablished that culture and it
(43:41):
is working in the way they'reintending to?
SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
Yeah, you know, it's actually very hard as a leader,
I think, to have an accurateunderstanding of how your
culture is feeling to your team.
So that's why I think listeningto your employees is such a
critical part of that.
You can look from the top down.
And say, I think things aregoing well.
I think that our culture iscoming across the way we want it
(44:05):
to, but your perspective isalways going to be skewed based
on where you're sitting andbased on the type of information
people are willing to share withyou.
So I very often we'll come intoa business that thinks that they
have a wonderful culture.
And the first thing that happensis employees come to us and pour
out all of these complaints orconcerns because they don't want
(44:28):
to be perceived in a negativelight by leadership.
So they don't feel as empoweredto express how things could be
better.
That's really what HR is for.
We're that intermediary thatemployees can safely talk to
about what could improve or whattheir challenges are day-to-day.
You know, I feel very stronglythat culture is not just what we
(44:53):
say it is, it's our day-to-dayactions that define that.
And so as a leader, I know formyself, it's a constant effort
to look objectively at my ownactions, at my own way of
working and measuring that upagainst the standards that I
hold our team to, and reallybeing honest with myself about
(45:14):
where I'm falling short.
And um, that's not, you know,it's it's not always a
comfortable exercise as a leaderto say, you know, I am not
embodying the values that Italked about perfectly, but
being able to be your ownharshest critic in some ways, I
think, is incredibly importantas a leader.
SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
It's such a hard thing to do for a leader to
introspect and say, okay, I'mfalling short in these elements.
SPEAKER_00 (45:43):
Yes, it's very humbling.
And that's where asking the teamis helpful because they see much
better than you do how youractions influence them.
Um so we actually do 360 reviewsat Empowered, and I have our
whole team uh review me as wellas I review them.
So some there are ways to gatherthat feedback anonymously and
(46:07):
transparently that can give youa really accurate picture of how
you're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (46:13):
Sarah, before we wrap up, a few quick don't
overthink it questions.
Simple a sentence, a phrase, acouple of sentences.
We just want to get to know youa little bit.
So what's your favorite comfortmeal?
No judgment, just joy.
SPEAKER_00 (46:29):
Uh eggplant parm.
SPEAKER_01 (46:30):
Eggplant palm.
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
My mom's eggplant palm.
SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
Okay.
Um, what's your onehospitality-related pet beef?
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Many, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Oh, so many.
And it's hard to turn your brainoff once you've worked in the
industry, but yeah, mine is umwhen a server asks if you're
done with your plate beforeeveryone at the table is done.
SPEAKER_01 (46:54):
Okay.
What's a hobby or an activitythat helps you recharge?
SPEAKER_00 (47:00):
For me, it's exercising.
It's uh right now it's thePeloton bike and also yoga.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
Oh, fantastic.
Um, what's a unique or asurprising job you have had?
SPEAKER_00 (47:13):
My first job ever, I was a librarian in a children's
room.
SPEAKER_01 (47:16):
Oh wow.
Okay.
That's an almost well, not exactopposite, but restaurants are
pretty busy as well.
Um any sports team, pastime, orcompetition you secretly or not
so secretly are obsessed with.
SPEAKER_00 (47:30):
Oh.
Um my gosh, that's such a goodquestion.
I'm not big into sports thesedays.
I have two kids under two, soI'm my time is a little limited.
SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
Clearly.
SPEAKER_00 (47:44):
Um, but I would say I I personally love soccer, and
I'm really excited because mytwo-year-old is actually
starting to play soccer now,which is adorable because they
don't know how to focus onanything.
But um, but I think playingsoccer with him and watching him
learn the sport has been reallyfun.
SPEAKER_01 (48:05):
So, Sarah, thank you so much for incredible
explanations and your insight,thoughtful insights into culture
and post-pandemic workplace.
Um, very, very appreciated.
And I also want to thank you foryour continuous engagement with
our school.
You come in, give so manylectures.
Students and faculty reallyappreciate it.
(48:26):
And thank you for coming on mypodcast today.
SPEAKER_00 (48:28):
Thank you.
Such a pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (48:31):
To our listeners, whether you're heading into your
first interview or leading yourthird concept, this conversation
is your reminder thathospitality starts inside.
Strategy isn't just what you do,it's how you lead.
Join us next time on theDistinguished Podcast as we
continue learning from leaderswho are reshaping hospitality
(48:54):
from the inside out.
If you want to join theconversation and share your
thoughts and suggestions, emailme at sardine at bu.edu.
That is s-h-a-de-e-a-n atbu.edu.
This episode was produced byMara Littman, marketing by
Rachel Hamlin, and production byJason Jose of Cocoon Media.
(49:18):
Special thanks to ProfessorMakran Modi and the entire team
at BU School of Hospitality.
To keep up with Distinguished,be sure to subscribe.
To keep up with theDistinguished Podcast, be sure
to subscribe wherever you listento your favorite podcasts.
(49:39):
You can also learn more aboutexperience innovation in our
undergrad and graduate programsby visiting BU.edu slash
hospitality.
I'm Arunupnaja, Dean of the BUSchool of Hospitality, wishing
you a great day.
Imagine this.
You've risen from being one ofthe youngest journal managers at
a$10 million restaurant to acorporate HR director role.
You are on a clear path.
And then suddenly your positionis eliminated.
For many, that's the end of achapter.
For Sarah Deal, it was arevelation.
She even called it the bestthing that could have happened.
(00:29):
Welcome back to TheDistinguished, where we learn
from leaders at every level ofthe hospitality industry.
I'm Arunupneja, Dean of the BUSchool of Hospitality.
Here at our school, our guidingprinciple is experience
innovation.
The idea that hospitality isn'tjust a service, it's a strategic
(00:50):
mindset that can solve problemsand build loyalty.
Our guest today, Sarah Deal, isthe living embodiment of that
idea.
When her corporate role waseliminated, she uncovered a
critical flaw in the industry.
Small independent operatorsdesperately needed senior human
(01:11):
resources, but couldn't afford afull-time executive.
So she started turning her ownjob interviews into impromptu
consulting sessions, diagnosingproblems, and designing
solutions on the spot.
From that insight, she builtEmpowered Hospitality, a firm
designed to be the exact answerto the problem she discovered.
(01:34):
Her work is a masterclass inexperience innovation applied to
the most critical component ofany hospitality business, its
people.
Sarah is a Yale graduate, a 2021Tory Birch Foundation Fellow, a
voice for the James BeardFoundation, and a guest lecturer
right here at our school.
(01:56):
Sarah, welcome to theDistinguished Podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for
your kind words.
I'm very flattered.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
You've built an amazing company, and we are very
happy that you're here.
Okay, so let's jump right in.
And you've written thatemployees are in the driver's
seat like never before.
Many operators see this as acrisis, but you see it as an
opportunity.
So can you expand on how thispower shift acts as a forcing
(02:26):
function that ultimatelybenefits our industry?
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Of course.
So one thing that's reallyinteresting about employment in
our industry is the shift thatresulted from the pandemic.
We have the largest shortage intalent of any industry in the
country.
And what that has done is reallyput the onus on employers to
(02:49):
take care of their employees, toretain them, to make a place
where they can be happy andthrive long term.
So whereas before the pandemic,we often saw a revolving door of
talent.
Now we see a lot of employersawakening to this obligation
they have to care for theirteam, to provide basic benefits,
(03:12):
to provide a livable wage, toprovide a predictable schedule.
Some of that is mandated from aregulatory perspective.
So we we have to evolve and keepup with the laws as they're
changing around minimum payrequirements, scheduling, et
cetera.
But a lot of it is more of acultural shift and things that
(03:34):
employees are more empowered todemand of their workplaces than
they were before.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Okay, so we're gonna get into a whole lot of these
things, but let's just start offby um telling us where do you
see the biggest disconnectbetween what employers think
they're offering versus whatemployees are experiencing or
even need?
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
I think the biggest disconnect is the fundamentals,
actually.
I think very often it's buzzyand kind of a current theme to
talk about mental health, aboutcreative benefits like pet
insurance or some of those moreesoteric things that might
(04:18):
attract employees to a job.
What employers don't talk aboutas much, but I think are much
more important, are the basicthings like paying people on
time and accurately.
Having an HR department.
So someone has a resource totalk to if they run into a
challenge or an issue, providinga clear roadmap for how someone
(04:38):
progresses through a company,some of those really basic
things that are just a matter ofthe nuts and bolts of HR, I
think are holding a lot ofemployers back without them even
realizing it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
So if employee needs have fundamentally evolved and
they're very different from whatthey were before, so what does
that mean for the traditionaltop-down management that
characterizes our industry,which has historically been
true?
And what does a modern adaptiveleader look like?
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
Yeah, such a good question.
I think it's actually less thatthe needs have changed and more
that employees feel empowered toask for whatever those needs
are.
So I think a modern adaptiveleader is one who listens, most
importantly.
What employees need or aredemanding today from employers
(05:31):
will not be the same in three orfour years.
So, how do we keep up with thatas leaders?
We have to be listeningconsistently and genuinely to
what our employees want and needand delivering on those
requests.
So a lot of the work we do isconducting surveys.
It's hosting one-on-oneinterviews, it's really trying
(05:53):
to drill down into not whatemployers think employees want,
like pet insurance, like some ofthose buzzier benefits, but what
employees actually need thatthey're not getting.
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
Okay, so I'm gonna uh come back to this in in more
detail, but let's just talkabout, and I think you briefly
mentioned it earlier, which isum, you know, people just think,
okay, compensation is the wayfor retention, and you know,
retention is a big issue.
You mentioned it at thebeginning.
So, what are one of uh just saya couple of handful of
practices, very impactfulpractices that can uh boost
(06:28):
retention for particularly forsmall restaurant operators?
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
Yeah, so I think the first I would say just to
reinforce is doing thefundamentals well.
So paying people accurately andon time, having basic benefits,
offering health insurance, forexample, at a minimum, should be
a requirement of every business,no matter how big or small.
Things like having a culturethat encourages transparency and
(06:55):
where all people feel welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
So let's move on to.
I know you recently wrote anoutstanding article for the
Boston Hospitality Review.
So thank you for writing for ourmagazine.
It's titled Cultivating ThrivingHospitality Teams in the Post
Pandemic World.
So, in that article, you'vedetailed a clear four-pillar
framework for talent managementthat can serve as a practical
(07:19):
playbook for hospitalityleaders.
So I want to dive into thosefour pillars.
Let's start with the first one.
So, can you describe, brieflydescribe the first pillar, which
is sourcing and selection?
And my first question on that isyou advocate recruiting for
cultural fit by beingtransparent about companies,
quirks, and challenges.
(07:40):
And the question is, how do youcoach a leader to identify and
articulate their authenticemployer brand, especially if
you're worried that it mightscare some candidates away?
SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
Right, right.
I think that the pressure toappeal to all candidates is very
real.
And managers are they're oftenin the position of being a
salesperson for their business,trying to get desperately find
someone to fill open shifts.
So it is difficult.
I think the key is really toarticulate at a leadership level
(08:13):
what those core values are, whatyour purpose is as an
organization, make sure that'sdisseminated throughout your
team, and then also identifywhat traits really actually
predict success within yourteam.
So, as an example, someone whowould be incredibly high
(08:33):
performing in a large corporaterestaurant group might not do as
well in an independentchef-driven restaurant.
What are those core competenciesor personality traits that
really makes them fit within oneenvironment and not another?
The best way to do that is tolook at your current top
performers.
So we all know within our teamwho is who's really crushing it
(08:57):
and who is not.
And what is it, what are thosecommon threads that unite all of
those really high-performingindividuals?
It may not be the things youexpect.
It might not be skills orcompetencies, it might be
something softer, like theirvalues or their sense of
hospitality.
So really putting a finger onthose things and then in my mind
(09:21):
creating tools and processesthat make sure you can't miss
any of those details.
So questions oriented aroundeach of your core values, for
example, or an assessment toolthat measures those key traits
that predict success within yourorganization.
I think there's an art and ascience to it, but the science
(09:42):
is once you know what thoseattributes are, how can you make
sure that any manager can sitdown with that interview guide
and ask the right questions?
SPEAKER_01 (09:54):
So I'm curious to see with your experience, what
percentage of employers actuallygo out with the idea that
they're going to determine whatthe brand is, and they can
articulate what they want andwhat it is versus those that let
nature take its course and thenthey have an employer brand.
They may not have created it,but they end up with one.
(10:17):
And how many people can actuallyeven articulate whether either
way they got to the employerbrand?
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
I think the majority of businesses fall somewhere in
between where they realize atsome point early on that they
haven't done the work to definewho they are, and they backtrack
to attempt to do that based onpeople, frankly, that they got
lucky with.
So they're backtracking to say,all right, who are the people
(10:45):
who have come to embody ourbrand who we feel embody our
brand?
And then can we define what thatis?
Um few start with a clear ideaof their employer brand and fit
people into that.
Because I think also that isn'tbuilt off of reality.
And what you find when youactually go into the market and
(11:06):
start hiring restaurantemployees is what you think
you're looking for might not beas available, right?
There's a reality.
We have to staff ourrestaurants, we have to staff
our businesses.
So we have to make sure thatwhat we idealize as our employer
brand, we can actually deliver.
unknown (11:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Um, so there is another landmine here that I
want to sort of bring out sothat we we discuss it, which is
uh when you talk about culturalfit, um, unless we are very
careful, um, cultural fit couldimply people who look like me or
look like, you know.
Um, and so then you're gonna endup with.
So let's define what do you meanby cultural fit so that we don't
(11:49):
end up with, you know, thisage-old problem of hiding
everyone who looks like me.
SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Yes, that that's right.
Culture can be synonymous withhomogeny, and that's dangerous
in any business.
I think the key is to understandthat culture in the context of
someone's personal life oftenmeans their their their
historical culture, right?
Their their origin or theirethnicity or the the kind of
(12:18):
mores and values that they wereraised with.
Culture in the context of abusiness is very different.
Culture in a business means whatdo we collectively value as a
team, and that has nothing to dowith where someone comes from.
So I think as long as we'redistinguishing between those
two, I think that's why the useof the word family is also
(12:38):
problematic when it comes to aworkplace, because we're not
we're not a family, we're notall from the same place.
We choose to come togetherbecause we believe in the same
things.
And clearly defining what thosevalues are is the first step to
that.
If they're not clearly defined,you fall back on I want to hire
someone like me.
(12:58):
I want to hire someone from thesame background, right?
Not I want to hire someone whobelieves the same things I
believe in.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
Okay.
So let's move on to the secondpillar, which is onboarding as a
strategic imperative and thefirst 90 days.
So let's set the stage andbriefly describe what you mean
by onboarding.
SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
So, yeah, onboarding is everything from the
engagement with a candidate onceyou've offered them the job
prior to their first day.
So all the paperwork you'resending them, all the
communications that you sharewith them through their first
day, filling out paperwork,meeting with their trainer,
going over their trainingschedule, all the way through,
(13:39):
in my mind, when you've finishedsetting them up for success and
they're ready to run solo intheir first shift.
So onboarding is not just on dayone sitting and filling out your
paperwork with HR.
It's much more complex and itinvolves a lot more key
stakeholders from within therestaurant team as well.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
Now you've also talked about the small personal
moments during the onboardingprocess.
Can you elaborate on that?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Yes.
So we've found we we've beenpart of a program in New York
City that has onboarded andtrained over 250 line cooks who
come from no experience andlearn how to work in a kitchen
and then get placed at some ofNew York City's best
restaurants.
What we've learned through thatis predictors of success are
(14:31):
things like having a tour of therestaurant on your first day,
knowing who your manager is.
As silly as that sounds, butmeeting your manager on your
first day, knowing who an HR canhelp you if you have a question
about your paperwork or if youhave a concern about someone
you're working with, having abuddy during training, someone
who will is a colleague, so nota manager, but a colleague who
(14:55):
will help you if you're havingtrouble finding something, or if
there's terminology you don'tunderstand, or if you're having
an interpersonal challenge withsomeone.
So those are four specificexamples of some of those really
simple things we've foundstatistically really contribute
to someone's longevity at acompany.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
So when you talk about these personal moments, uh
at the same time, we have a veryhighly structured onboarding
process.
Uh, the moments can bespontaneous and unplanned.
So, how do you reconcile thosetwo ideas?
Can structure and genuineconnection really coexist in
(15:36):
onboarding?
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah, oh, that's a great question.
I mean, the the personalconnection to me is the easy
part.
Like that's what weaves all ofthose more technical components
together.
It's the interaction that theyget from their trainer.
So the person who you've chosenas a representative of their
position and the care that thatperson takes in training them.
(16:00):
Um, it's the initial hello thatthey get from their manager when
they're first introduced.
It's the culture of welcomingpeople in pre-shift or
celebrating, you know, positiveguest reviews in pre-shift.
So some of those, thoseniceties, those like, again,
those small interactions, butthat reinforce that someone's
(16:21):
welcome.
I think those are kind of innateto us in hospitality and often
less of a challenge than livingwithin that system and being
disciplined about checking allof the boxes.
Um, but those are certainlythings to be very mindful of as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
But then aren't you afraid that they're going to
take some of those habits whichare causing these people to be
good cultural ambassadors forthe organization, but not the
most effective.
You want them learning from themost effective.
So you have to somehow balancethese two perspectives, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Yeah, you do.
It's rare to find thatcombination.
But um, those of us who havemanaged restaurants know you can
identify that person on yourstaff who both is passionate
about the culture and ispassionate about the details and
passionate about executing theprocess correctly.
(17:13):
Um, I think the best way to goabout that is to have a train
the trainer program.
So if you have your training,you know, let's say your two or
three-week training program fora line level staff member, you
aren't good, you aren't going tojust hand that to an employee
and say, here, now you'reresponsible for teaching someone
(17:33):
how to do this.
You need to teach them how toteach that person.
So some of that is giving themthe technical know-how of what
boxes to check when, thetoolkit.
So here are your menudescriptions, here are your
steps of service, these are allof the technical things you need
to follow.
Some of it is also ensuring, asthey're being trained to use
(17:55):
those resources, that they'reexcited about it and they're
they genuinely want to do it.
I think the key is take a cuefrom them.
If they don't seem like they'rereally naturally excited and
gravitating towards thatresponsibility, they're probably
not the right person.
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
Right.
So in addition to teaching aboutthe processes and the structures
and the job, you're also makingsure that they, the, the, the
new employees feel an emotionalconnection to the organization.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Right.
I would say too, there's a checkand balance in terms of who,
aside from the trainer, is thatnew employee interacting with.
So making sure that the manageror whoever that employee will
ultimately report to is alsospending time with them,
reinforcing, going through thechecklist, reinforcing the
culture, speaking to those samethings, which we hope that the
(18:45):
trainer has covered.
But just in case, this is ourextra insurance to make sure
that all of those key detailshave been reviewed.
Yeah, one thing I would suggestthat we use at Empowered is we
have some of the interviewprocess that is scripted, not
all of it, but there are keythings we want to make sure
every candidate understandsabout our business, specifically
(19:08):
what makes it challenging.
And we actually write those outin our interview guide to make
sure that whoever is conductingthat interview reviews those key
points.
So that's one thing you can doin any business, in any
industry, is making sure thatthe talk track about your
business and about the jobspecifically is consistent and
(19:30):
that every candidate is hearingsome of the same key points,
basically.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Right.
So you have, since you areworking with so many different
restaurants, there's obviously adifference in the organization
culture of each place.
And what you're suggesting hereis that everyone who's
interviewing is sort of, youknow, speaking from the same
template.
But how much of a discrepancy doyou find between what people say
(20:00):
their organization is andeveryone is reading what it
actually is?
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Yeah, that's an exercise we do with a lot of our
clients is going back to theircore values.
It's amazing how manyorganizations have not revisited
their core values in years.
So, you know, as we know,culture changes.
Culture to me is the sum totalof the belief systems of all the
(20:26):
people you have on your team.
So if you're not constantlychecking against that culture
and making sure that's stillreally what your team is
invested in, you may be sayingone thing and doing another, to
your point.
So the key is to not think thatyour values are static.
When we come in, sometimes thefirst thing we do is we ask the
(20:47):
team, what do you think yourcore values are?
Do you know what they are?
Do you see that those are thevalues that are actually being
lived on a day-to-day basis?
And often the answer is no.
So, how do we close that gap?
Either we adjust the values tobetter reflect what the team
currently is prioritizing, or wehave to look at where our
(21:08):
actions fall short of our valuesand how we better align those,
which can be about a lot ofdifferent things.
It can be about leadership, notpracticing what they preach.
It can be about hiring peoplewho maybe don't ascribe to those
values in the way we would like,or it could be simple things
like one of our values ishospitality, but our employee
(21:32):
dressing room is a mess, andwe're not showing hospitality to
our own team, and thereforethey're not passing that along
to our guests.
So there are a lot of differentkind of levers to pull to
influence culture, but I thinkthe biggest thing back to
listening, the biggest thing isto really understand whether the
values that you say you believein are actually the values that
(21:52):
your team is living by.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
So let's move to the third pillar, which is learning
and development.
So it's gone from being a niceto have.
Perk into a central engine of ahigh fair and a high performing
culture.
So just to set the stage, uhtalk about LND.
What is, from your perspective,learning and development?
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Yeah, so to me, simply put, learning and
development is how an individualprogresses and grows within an
organization.
So that's about both theresources that you provide to
them to increase theircapability, to increase their
knowledge and their skills, andit's about that roadmap that
(22:34):
tells them how to get from wherethey are today to where they
want to go professionally, whichis the development part.
So, you know, what we see oftenis there's a very casual,
unstructured approach tolearning and development.
It's voluntary, it's largelydriven by an individual
employee's desire to learn andto stretch and to seek out those
(22:58):
learning opportunities.
When you make it really easy foremployees to learn, you make it
accessible, you build astructure around it, that means
that not just your mostmotivated employees will
benefit.
It means that anyone who seesthemselves potentially
developing and staying with anorganization understand how to
(23:20):
get from one step to the next,and then what are the resources
that will help them get there.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
So you uh so you are trying to link um essentially um
learning and development tocompetency pay bands, and you
say you learn these things andthis is where your compensation
goes to, right?
Yeah.
Um but you've chosen probablyone of the most difficult
industries to work with.
If you're looking at smallrestaurants, there is very
(23:47):
limited avenue for if you'rehired as a server, um, you know,
and and you know, your managersare staying put for a long time,
there's not a whole lot whereyou can go.
SPEAKER_00 (23:59):
Right.
Yes.
Sometimes, sometimes developmentinternally can be limited in a
very small company.
There are some benefits as well,though.
Cross-training is a lot easierin some sense because you have a
small team, you can jump in andhelp.
It's a lot more fluid in thatway.
It's not bureaucratic.
(24:19):
It's easy for you to, hey, ifyou're really capable, you're
going to naturally get moreresponsibility.
That's just how it works.
Right.
That was how I grew in HR.
I started as the director oftraining in my restaurant group.
No one was in HR, and I juststarted doing it.
And that was the beginning ofhow I transitioned in my career.
So I think those positives areimportant to highlight in
(24:42):
working within a smallindependent organization, but
also understand that growthoutside of the company can
sometimes be a natural nextstep, and it's not something to
be afraid of.
So a lot of particularly cookswho come into the industry, they
look to bounce between, youknow, one restaurant to the next
to hone their skill set and getexposure to different
(25:05):
techniques.
That's not bad.
I think, you know, if we'reafraid of that and we're trying
to discourage that, we're doingthem a disservice.
And we're also doing ourselves adisservice by ignoring that this
is how it works.
So I think another way to lookat development is some external
development is natural and it'spositive.
(25:25):
Can you bring that to your teamrather than acting like it
doesn't exist?
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Um, so the what you're describing is a
population of employees that areworking in restaurants and they
are eager or hungry for learningand they want to progress in
life.
But then there is also there isa core group of employees who've
been doing this for decades.
And what kind of first of all,in your client, what percentage
(25:56):
are these hardcore people whohave been doing this for a long
time?
And you talk to them aboutcross-training, and they're
they're like, Where are youcoming from?
You have no idea.
I'm just gonna want to come workand go home.
Yeah.
So I'm just curious, what is thepercentage of those kind of
employees?
SPEAKER_00 (26:12):
A small percentage.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
A small loyalty.
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
A small percentage and and growing smaller because
I think the generational shiftis really playing a role in
loyalty, what loyalty means inthe industry.
Gen Z in particular are verygrowth-oriented, like any new
generation coming into theworkforce.
We were too as millennials.
(26:35):
I remember hearing how entitledwe were because we wanted to be
managers in a year or two.
But um, but truthfully, that'skind of a normal evolution as
people come in and grow andmature within their careers.
I think that the biggest thingto me is just ensuring that
there isn't a one-size-fits-allapproach to development.
(26:57):
To your point, a senior serveror manager who has chosen this
as a career but is very happydoing what they're doing might
not opt in to all of thedevelopmental opportunities.
That's okay.
That's not necessarily foreveryone.
But providing those growthopportunities for individuals
(27:17):
who are really motivated by thatis important.
Is it?
Yes.
Same thing with benefits.
Not everyone's going to wanttraditional health benefits, but
providing those for theemployees who do, and then
providing other benefits like uhtuition reimbursement, or um,
you know, again, training orlearning and
(27:37):
development-oriented benefitsfor those who are younger in
their careers, it allows bothgroups to feel satisfied at work
in very different ways.
They're kind of choosing whatfits their own lifestyle best.
SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
So the model that you're describing seems to
create a very clear andequitable roadmap for
advancement.
Um, does it lead to reduction inunconscious bias in promotion
pays, raises?
SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
Yes, I think what we could see if there were not a
system like that in place isfavoritism and managers
gravitating towards people whoremind them of themselves.
So I do think that reallylooking at it almost like a menu
of different opportunities,benefits, perks that people can
(28:31):
choose what best fits their ownlifestyle and their own goals is
a much less um, it's much lessprone to bias than some of the
traditional ways that we lookedat development.
SPEAKER_01 (28:43):
Okay, so let's move to the fourth pillar, which is
the employer center,employee-centric approach.
So let's just briefly define itbefore I start asking my
questions.
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Yeah, so to me, it's actually exactly what we were
just talking about.
It's the fact that having agreat experience and thriving at
work does not look the same foreveryone.
And whether it's a generationaldifference or a cultural
difference or a difference in acareer trajectory that someone
(29:15):
is aiming for, anemployee-centric approach says
we're not giving you a setprescriptive menu of all the
things you need to follow.
We want to make sure you'realigned from a cultural
perspective and that we believein the same things, but it's
kind of a choose your ownadventure.
You decide what direction youwant to go, how fast you want to
(29:37):
progress, what benefits you wantto enroll in.
And we're gonna listen to youalso in case what you really
need is not something we'reoffering.
So it's that constant iterationof listening, introducing kind
of new solutions, new perks, newbenefits that your employees
value, and allowing them to optinto whatever they value.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
So you also talk about um moving past the leave
your issues at door philosophythat has long permeated our and
traditional workspaces for along time.
So, how can a leader begin tocreate psychological safety
where employees seen heard andsupported and safe without
(30:21):
crossing professionalboundaries?
SPEAKER_00 (30:23):
Yeah, that's a really interesting one and a big
shift that we've seen since thepandemic because the social
movements that people livedthrough during the pandemic that
have continued since, some ofthe political anxiety and
unrest, it's very difficult forpeople to leave that at the
(30:45):
door.
And in fact, especially theyounger generation in the
workforce, they want theiremployer to be more than just a
professional relationship.
They actually want thatpsychological support, the
emotional support.
So it's uh, I think a little bitof a fallacy to think that we
(31:05):
can really separate the two.
Um, I was speaking a few monthsago at a conference on uh mental
health and benefits in theindustry specifically, and I
told a story about a server whocame to me when I was a new
manager.
I was maybe a year or two intomy career, and she pulled me
aside and she told me she was analcoholic.
(31:28):
And I had no idea how tonavigate that.
I obviously felt for her.
I didn't have any personalexperience with substance abuse,
so I couldn't really advise hereffectively.
But what I could do was listenand support her and say, you
know, if you need help, we'llgive you the time to get help.
(31:49):
And I think that we can do a lotas employers.
We kind of underestimatesometimes the impact of just
listening and being a genuineemotional support, just
expressing that support tosomeone who maybe doesn't hear
that from other parts of theirlife.
And then knowing thelimitations, I'm not a
(32:11):
psychiatrist, I'm not a mentalhealth professional, but let me
connect you with someone who canhelp you.
So I think it's important toalways have a toolkit of other
professionals who can get moreinvolved with things that are
beyond your expertise.
But the first step is notdisregarding when someone comes
(32:32):
to you with a challenge.
I think one other thing we cando as leaders is just be open
about our own struggles and ourown challenges and making sure
that the team knows that it'snot easy to come to work every
day with a positive attitude.
Sometimes it's a struggle, andthat's all right.
But once we're here, we have tosupport each other and make sure
(32:53):
that we're delivering on ourpromise to our customers.
SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
Okay, so you talked about two different things.
One is um, you know, the globalsituation, the political um
developments that are takingplace, and and employees want to
come and see some resonance withthe employer about those.
Um and we have seen so manyinstances in the past where
(33:18):
employees will try to forcetheir employers to take a stance
on some, you know, won't go intospecifics, but um uh you know,
Google is there one, there's alot of employees, um, and many
other big companies is an icecream company I can think of,
where the company is taking astance or not taking a stance.
So but some companies might say,look, we are here to do business
(33:43):
and we are not gonna take astance one way or the other.
So, how do you then help thoseemployees see that it is not,
you know, the role of thecompany to take, but the
employees are expecting it.
So, how do you sort of balancethose perspectives?
SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
I don't think you have to be political as a
company.
Okay.
Um, this is a balancing act forus at Empowered because we
support so many differentcompanies with so many different
value systems.
We are very careful about whatwe say, especially on political
or kind of uh social topics.
But I think you do need to knowit's a decision.
(34:24):
So if you're an organizationthat is strongly aligned with a
particular social or politicalpurpose, you'll likely attract
employees who share that beliefsystem, and that's not bad.
It just means that your talentpool is influenced by the values
that you put out in theenvironment.
Same thing with you beingpolitically impartial.
(34:45):
And if you say, hey, we're notwearing, you know, t-shirts with
political statements, we're nottalking about politics at work,
not everyone will agree withthat.
And those people might leave,and that's okay.
Again, there are otherorganizations that they might be
better aligned with that wouldbe more political.
Right.
So I think the key is it again,back to the core values is
(35:06):
really understanding what youwant to take a stand on and what
you want to be neutral on.
And it's really okay.
It's just that that willdetermine the type of people who
gravitate towards you as acompany.
SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
So this is excellent advice.
But I'm gonna flip the script alittle bit and say, how do you
prevent the personal problemsand issues?
Since we are now inviting themsaying, look, you don't have to
leave your personal issues atthe door.
They come in, they bring theminto it, then how do you um stop
(35:39):
those issues or uh prevent thosefrom overwhelming the
professional situation you'rein?
SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Yeah, so there is a time and place first to have
those conversations.
I think it is while it'simportant to listen and to be
empathetic, your firstcommitment as a manager or
leader is to your entire team.
So a really good and helpfulanecdote that I heard recently
(36:07):
from a restaurant operator was asimilar incident.
It was an employee who wasstruggling with substance abuse,
and she really wanted to helpthem.
And the gut check for her was isthis person being present within
our team damaging our overalldynamic as a team more than it
(36:29):
is helping them?
And so I think to your questionabout where is the boundary and
how do I figure out kind ofwhere it's appropriate to have
those more personal engagements?
The biggest measure or barometerfor that is how is that
impacting the greater team andour ability to run a successful
(36:50):
business?
Because that's not just aboutone person, it's about the
collective good.
And if one person is draggingthe team down or bringing toxic
energy or being unreliable in away that's negatively impacting
others, you have to hold themaccountable to the same set of
standards as well.
unknown (37:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
So how do you make culture and belonging
quantifiable?
I mean, there are suchfeel-good, subjective kind of,
you know, yeah, I feel goodabout this organization.
I I feel I fit in, but how do Inow go about quantifying it?
SPEAKER_00 (37:27):
So I so we do a lot of employee surveys, and I find
that very helpful to quantifythe different dimensions of
culture and how employees areactually feeling about those.
So some of the the a usefulguideline is Gallup's 12
question survey.
There they've kind of patentedthis methodology and these 12
(37:50):
questions that best predictengagement.
Things like, I have a bestfriend at work, things like my
leaders, you know, regularlyrecognize my performance, things
like someone at work cares aboutmy professional development.
So asking about those underlyingquestions can tell us a lot
about culture and howeffectively that culture is
(38:11):
really disseminated throughoutthe team.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
So, you know, culture is a very interesting uh
subject because there are not awhole lot of employers that
actually actively, proactivelygo talk about so, okay, this is
the culture that we want in ourcompany and go um and sort of
invest in it.
So usually what is the point orthe pain point in which
(38:37):
operators say, okay, enough isenough.
I need to now focus on this onculture.
SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
Yeah, it's when the it's when the misalignment
becomes damaging.
And that can mean a couple ofthings.
It can mean turnover is high.
It can mean there's a lot ofinterpersonal conflict within
departments or within teams.
It could be that employees aretelling you they're staying, but
they're not engaged in work.
(39:04):
It could be managers saying theyfeel disempowered.
It could be harassment anddiscrimination, more serious
issues like that.
Those are all things that tellus that culture isn't healthy.
And then the question is, how dowe go in and actually fix that,
which is a much more complexquestion.
SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
Right.
Um, have you seen examples ofrestaurant operators who did not
invest in over time discoveredthey have a lot of problems and
now have become believers?
Do you see that transformationhappening?
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
Yeah, I do.
And I I actually think moreoften it's companies that had a
healthy culture just by accidentor naturally, particularly when
they were small and the ownerscould touch and feel every part
of the business.
They then grow to a certainpoint where they can't be
(39:57):
actively involved in every uhteam or touching every
restaurant regularly.
That's where culture reallystarts to unravel.
So I would say today, more thanever, businesses are aware that
culture is important becauseit's harder to find staff.
And so if someone leaves becauseculture is unhealthy, you're not
(40:19):
finding replacement for them aseasily as we could in the past.
But I think really back to yourquestion, leaders who see those
indications that people areunhappy or that the business is
suffering because culture is nothealthy, they are more open to
(40:40):
exploring what's happening andreally defining culture, some of
them for the first time.
Some of these are very, verylong-standing organizations.
I just spoke with one last weekthat's been around for over 30
years.
They said, we've always had agreat culture.
And all of a sudden, in the pastcouple of years, coming back
(41:01):
from the pandemic, we'restarting to see that
interpersonal conflict.
People who are working remotelynow feel less dis less connected
to our mission and our values,and that's creating a lot of
problems.
So that's more often than nothow these things are coming to
our attention.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
What advice do you have for students who want to
become and show up as strongprofessionals, protecting their
values and knowing what not totolerate?
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Well, having a clear idea of what your values are
first is important.
And I don't know that we oftensit down and go through that
exercise to say, what are mydeal breakers?
Like what are the things that Iactually would require of a
workplace?
It's especially hard to knowthat when you're a new, you
know, new worker entering theworkforce for the first time.
(41:52):
How do you know what thosestandards are?
You haven't really been exposedto the different alternatives.
So I think that to start, it'sreally looking at the
environments you've experiencedin your life.
It could be school, it could bea sport that you've played, it
could be a volunteer activity,and identify in those what were
(42:13):
the things that really enabledyou to thrive.
And then look for those in yourworkplaces moving forward.
Um, and the other thing I wouldsay is just not being afraid to
leave because you may love theidea of a company or the values
of a company, but if you get,for example, if you're working
for a manager who doesn'tascribe to those same values,
(42:36):
doesn't live those values day today, it can be a really, really
harmful and kind of detrimentalexperience.
And more often than not, I thinkpeople don't feel empowered to
leave those situations quickly.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yeah, so we require our students to do a couple of
different internships and thenwe have extended discussions
about what they've observed inthose companies, what they
liked, what they didn't like,what their own personal values.
So hopefully we are doing someof that.
Uh but yes, it's important to domore.
So you know, um you mentionedyou at some point a few minutes
(43:19):
ago, you mentioned thatsometimes leaders discover that
their culture is no longerworking or you know the problems
start accumulating.
So, how do leaders recognizethat the culture is not working?
Um, what kind of question shouldthey be asking themselves to
know whether they are they'veestablished that culture and it
(43:41):
is working in the way they'reintending to?
SPEAKER_00 (43:44):
Yeah, you know, it's actually very hard as a leader,
I think, to have an accurateunderstanding of how your
culture is feeling to your team.
So that's why I think listeningto your employees is such a
critical part of that.
You can look from the top down.
And say, I think things aregoing well.
I think that our culture iscoming across the way we want it
(44:05):
to, but your perspective isalways going to be skewed based
on where you're sitting andbased on the type of information
people are willing to share withyou.
So I very often we'll come intoa business that thinks that they
have a wonderful culture.
And the first thing that happensis employees come to us and pour
out all of these complaints orconcerns because they don't want
(44:28):
to be perceived in a negativelight by leadership.
So they don't feel as empoweredto express how things could be
better.
That's really what HR is for.
We're that intermediary thatemployees can safely talk to
about what could improve or whattheir challenges are day-to-day.
You know, I feel very stronglythat culture is not just what we
(44:53):
say it is, it's our day-to-dayactions that define that.
And so as a leader, I know formyself, it's a constant effort
to look objectively at my ownactions, at my own way of
working and measuring that upagainst the standards that I
hold our team to, and reallybeing honest with myself about
(45:14):
where I'm falling short.
And um, that's not, you know,it's it's not always a
comfortable exercise as a leaderto say, you know, I am not
embodying the values that Italked about perfectly, but
being able to be your ownharshest critic in some ways, I
think, is incredibly importantas a leader.
SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
It's such a hard thing to do for a leader to
introspect and say, okay, I'mfalling short in these elements.
SPEAKER_00 (45:43):
Yes, it's very humbling.
And that's where asking the teamis helpful because they see much
better than you do how youractions influence them.
Um so we actually do 360 reviewsat Empowered, and I have our
whole team uh review me as wellas I review them.
So some there are ways to gatherthat feedback anonymously and
(46:07):
transparently that can give youa really accurate picture of how
you're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (46:13):
Sarah, before we wrap up, a few quick don't
overthink it questions.
Simple a sentence, a phrase, acouple of sentences.
We just want to get to know youa little bit.
So what's your favorite comfortmeal?
No judgment, just joy.
SPEAKER_00 (46:29):
Uh eggplant parm.
SPEAKER_01 (46:30):
Eggplant palm.
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
My mom's eggplant palm.
SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
Okay.
Um, what's your onehospitality-related pet beef?
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (46:39):
Many, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Oh, so many.
And it's hard to turn your brainoff once you've worked in the
industry, but yeah, mine is umwhen a server asks if you're
done with your plate beforeeveryone at the table is done.
SPEAKER_01 (46:54):
Okay.
What's a hobby or an activitythat helps you recharge?
SPEAKER_00 (47:00):
For me, it's exercising.
It's uh right now it's thePeloton bike and also yoga.
SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
Oh, fantastic.
Um, what's a unique or asurprising job you have had?
SPEAKER_00 (47:13):
My first job ever, I was a librarian in a children's
room.
SPEAKER_01 (47:16):
Oh wow.
Okay.
That's an almost well, not exactopposite, but restaurants are
pretty busy as well.
Um any sports team, pastime, orcompetition you secretly or not
so secretly are obsessed with.
SPEAKER_00 (47:30):
Oh.
Um my gosh, that's such a goodquestion.
I'm not big into sports thesedays.
I have two kids under two, soI'm my time is a little limited.
SPEAKER_01 (47:43):
Clearly.
SPEAKER_00 (47:44):
Um, but I would say I I personally love soccer, and
I'm really excited because mytwo-year-old is actually
starting to play soccer now,which is adorable because they
don't know how to focus onanything.
But um, but I think playingsoccer with him and watching him
learn the sport has been reallyfun.
SPEAKER_01 (48:05):
So, Sarah, thank you so much for incredible
explanations and your insight,thoughtful insights into culture
and post-pandemic workplace.
Um, very, very appreciated.
And I also want to thank you foryour continuous engagement with
our school.
You come in, give so manylectures.
Students and faculty reallyappreciate it.
(48:26):
And thank you for coming on mypodcast today.
SPEAKER_00 (48:28):
Thank you.
Such a pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (48:31):
To our listeners, whether you're heading into your
first interview or leading yourthird concept, this conversation
is your reminder thathospitality starts inside.
Strategy isn't just what you do,it's how you lead.
Join us next time on theDistinguished Podcast as we
continue learning from leaderswho are reshaping hospitality
(48:54):
from the inside out.
If you want to join theconversation and share your
thoughts and suggestions, emailme at sardine at bu.edu.
That is s-h-a-de-e-a-n atbu.edu.
This episode was produced byMara Littman, marketing by
Rachel Hamlin, and production byJason Jose of Cocoon Media.
(49:18):
Special thanks to ProfessorMakran Modi and the entire team
at BU School of Hospitality.
To keep up with Distinguished,be sure to subscribe.
To keep up with theDistinguished Podcast, be sure
to subscribe wherever you listento your favorite podcasts.
(49:39):
You can also learn more aboutexperience innovation in our
undergrad and graduate programsby visiting BU.edu slash
hospitality.
I'm Arunupnaja, Dean of the BUSchool of Hospitality, wishing
you a great day.
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