October 22, 2025 • 45 mins
We sit down with family law attorney Devani Wells Gibson to demystify prenups, community property, and blended family planning. We share how hard conversations about money, sex, politics, and religion can strengthen trust and lower the risk of divorce.
• defining what a prenup does beyond divorce
• differences between attorney and lawyer, licensing limits
• virtual court shifts after COVID and impact
• community property, pensions, and gray divorce risks
• blended families, wills, trusts, and inheritance alignment
• four hard talks couples must have to align
• financial shame, debt transparency, and compatibility
• red flags, boundaries, and protecting yourself
• moving from litigation to mediation for healthier outcomes
• practical steps if considering divorce after forty
• resources to contact the Prenup Queen for help https://wellsgibsonfamilylaw.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carlene (00:02):
Hi, I'm Carlene, and this is Diva.
Tonight I have with me on ZoomDeveney Wells Gibson.
She is a leading family lawattorney, entrepreneur, and
financial advocate, and she isin San Diego.
That's where she's based, andshe's here to discuss.
(00:23):
I think what's really importantas the prenup queen herself,
why prenuptials agreements areimportant, obviously.
But because this is a seriesdevoted to women in their 40s, I
thought this would be a veryinteresting conversation for
women in general and men too, todiscuss why one is so
(00:44):
important.
So hi Deveney.
unknown (00:46):
Hello.
Deveney (00:46):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Definitely.
Carlene (00:49):
I'm excited too.
I did a little digging and Isee that you went to law school.
Well, it's it's it's your homeis in Texas.
You grew up in Texas.
Deveney (00:59):
Yep.
Carlene (01:00):
And Texas is known for that southern drawl, y'all.
Like my cousin.
Kudos to her.
Like whenever she whenever shewas visiting, whenever we visit
her, I was always waiting forher to say, y'all, are we going
to Walmart?
You know?
Deveney (01:17):
Yeah.
No one ever thinks I'm from theSouth or from Texas because
they say I don't have an accent,but the only reason they ever
know is because I say y'all.
Like that's that's a deadgiveaway every time.
Carlene (01:30):
Yeah, yeah.
It's it's a thing, right?
Do you miss Texas?
Deveney (01:36):
Um, no, I miss my mom.
Okay.
She's down in Texas.
So I mean, I miss seeing myfamily and seeing my friends.
So I'll go down there for likethe holidays or for like my
mom's birthday, but I don'tparticularly miss living down
there.
Now, will I go back to livedown there?
Maybe.
Um, why I think it's justbecause I just like different
(01:59):
things.
I get bored.
That sounds terrible.
I get bored quite easily.
And so, which I do feel boredwith San Diego, to be very, very
frank.
And so, like, I'm alreadyitching to see what my next
adventure is, where do I want tolive next, things like that.
But yeah, it there's nothingwrong with Texas.
It's great.
Like financially, it's great tolive down there.
The cost of living is so lowcompared to San Diego,
(02:20):
California.
And then, of course, all myfriends' family down there.
The politics are different,obviously, between Texas and
California, but that doesn'tnecessarily bother me in such a
way because I just grew up veryconservative, even though that's
not that we're trying to getinto politics, but like I'm used
to that culture.
So yeah.
Carlene (02:40):
Yeah.
I know we're not gonna get intopolitics.
I think I'll steer clear fromthat.
But uh so where did you go tolaw school?
I think that's an importantquestion to ask, you know?
Deveney (02:53):
Yeah.
Um, Cal Western.
So in San Diego, California.
So that is actually what movedme out here to California was to
go to law school.
And I went to law school in2017, and then I've just stayed
here ever since.
Carlene (03:05):
Okay, so I guess you've been there for quite a little
while.
Like it's not like you justmoved there, and law school is
is it sounds intense.
Was it intense?
Can you for those that likedon't have a law degree and like
there's a lot of readinginvolved, and like it's not like
it's not like in legallyblonde, is it?
Deveney (03:25):
Like no, no, and that's where a lot of people get
tripped up because they seelegally blonde or they see uh
any of the lawyer shows, andthey think that's what it's
like, and it's that's not alwaysthe case.
Um, is law school hard?
Um I'll say this.
There are people in law school,and I'm shocked on how they got
(03:47):
in.
I will leave it at that.
But me personally, I will say Igrew up not being like the most
studious person.
It wasn't until I got tocollege, like undergrad, where I
was just like, oh, you knowwhat?
I actually like school.
And then going to law school, Iexcelled.
And it's not like I'm differentthan anybody else.
It's not like I did anythingbigger or better because I was
(04:08):
that type of person that waslike, once 10 p.m.
comes around, I'm gonna bed.
I don't do all nighters.
I don't spend all day in thelibrary like a lot of people
did.
I think maybe for me, I wasjust very strict on my
boundaries.
And it's just like, no, I gothomework to do, I gotta go work
out, I eat the same thing everysingle time.
Like I was just so consistent.
(04:29):
And I think that just helped mebe a good student.
And then I did study when I wassupposed to, obviously.
But it's not like college whereyou can just go party and then
wing a test or something likethat.
It's that's very different.
Analyzing in law school is alsovery different than analyzing
or doing like work in undergrad.
Like the process that you haveto like uncover with your brain.
(04:51):
I don't know how to get like, Idon't know how to explain it,
but just analyzing is verydifferent in law school.
So it I will say for the peoplewho do law school straight out
of college, they've struggledbecause it's a very different
type of way of thinking.
But I will say I didn't go tolaw school straight out of
undergrad.
Like I had my undergrad, I wentto go work for three years and
(05:14):
then came back to law school.
So I had a little bit of a gapbefore going back to law school.
Carlene (05:20):
You know, I you know what's interesting that you say
like you took a break.
And I think when I wasgraduating from high school,
they made it seem like if youtook a break from going from
high school to university andthen having time in the
workforce that it would stop youfrom like, you know, doing more
further education.
(05:40):
And I and I think that's likeit depends on the person.
Yeah, I really do.
Because I did my undergrad too,and then I worked, and then I
realized like I need to go backto school to change like what
I'm gonna study, you know what Imean?
So after you graduate collegeand then you decide you're gonna
go to law school, what was thedriving force behind that?
Like, what was the motivation?
Deveney (06:01):
My mom rem like reminded me that I've always
wanted to be an attorney.
So I had a family friend whowas a criminal attorney, and I
just wanted to be like her sobadly.
Not criminal, that was like theone area I would not touch with
a 10-foot pole.
Like, would not, but I lovedher type of work.
I liked her work ethic, I likedthe purpose-driven part of what
(06:23):
she was doing.
And ever since meeting her, Iknew I wanted to be an attorney.
After I graduated fromundergrad, I just, I don't know,
I just started working.
And I just remember being atwork one day, being super
miserable.
And I was on the phone with mymom, and I was just like, what
is life?
I was like, this is what Iwanted.
(06:43):
I wanted to grow up to be anadult to do this the rest of my
life.
Like, what is this?
Like, adulting is ghetto.
And she was like, Well, whathappened to your dream of being
an attorney?
That's what you've alwayswanted to do.
Why aren't you doing it?
And I was just like, You'reright.
And so I kid you, not like thatmonth, that's when I just
started putting things in place,getting ready to take the LSAT,
(07:06):
getting ready to make thatmove, notified my employer that
that's what I wanted to do wasto be an attorney.
And honestly, my employer wasprobably one of the best
employers ever.
They gave me so much support.
Um, and so yeah, when Ieventually left, and that's back
in Texas.
So then when I eventually left,like the send-off, they were so
(07:26):
sweet, wishing me best of luck.
I'm still in contact with quitea few of them, whether it's
Facebook or Instagram.
Sometimes they check on me justto see how I'm doing.
Like, but long story short, toanswer your question, it was my
mom having a phone call withher, her reminding me of my
dreams.
Carlene (07:42):
Yeah.
You know, it's always nice tohave someone that's gonna
support your dream.
I think that's what pushes ussometimes, because as long as
you have like just one person inyour corner, I think that's
like the stepping stone tokeeping you on track with where
you are.
And even if you did go to lawschool and you're not practicing
(08:02):
a law, at least you gave it thegood old college try.
You could say, like, I did it,you know what I mean?
I and and that's the thing.
I think that when people areare disappointed with how things
turned out is because theydidn't even try, right?
And so it's so important.
But getting back to the topicof hand, actually, you know, I
have a question.
What is the difference betweenan attorney and a lawyer?
(08:24):
Like, is it just a differentterminology?
Deveney (08:27):
Like, okay, you know what?
I actually had to look intothis because they are actually
different, even though I do usethem, I use them interchangeably
because people don't know thatthere's a difference.
And honestly, I didn't knowthere was a difference until
like last year.
I believe an attorney issomeone who is like actually
practicing, past the barpracticing.
(08:47):
A lawyer is someone who justgraduated from law school, they
have their JD, and then youbecome an attorney once you've
passed the bar and you'repracticing.
Carlene (08:57):
So you can only practice in San Diego?
Is can you practice in anyother state?
Deveney (09:02):
I can only practice in California.
Carlene (09:04):
Oh, in California, okay.
Yeah.
Deveney (09:06):
But if I go to another state, I have to get licensed
in that state and go through alltheir hoops to be able to
practice in that state.
Carlene (09:16):
Yeah.
Deveney (09:16):
And some states are very different.
Some require like a whole newform of testing.
Other states say you can likewave in, like if you pass the
bar that's like comparable totheirs or harder than theirs,
they allow for you just to wavein, maybe take like a little bit
of a multiple choice test, andthen you're good to go.
But like here in California, ifyou lived in Texas and
(09:36):
practiced in Texas, you have tocome to California and retake
their entire bar in order topractice here.
And some other states are theexact same way.
Carlene (09:45):
So if you plan to move, that would be definitely
something that you would have tothink about too, right?
Yeah.
Deveney (09:52):
Yeah.
But I will say one of thebenefits that came from COVID is
virtual court.
So yeah, now attorney nowthere's firms that are all
virtual, complete, completevirtual.
They have no office space,nothing.
They do everything virtually,they appear in court virtually.
Even though I personally have adistaste for that, I think that
(10:14):
I think it does people adisservice, especially when it's
a very important like matter.
Yeah.
But there are attorneys whoonly appear virtually.
Yeah, so that's that's prettyinteresting.
But as far as what I'm tryingto do with like prenup queen, I
don't that would keep me out ofthe courtroom.
Carlene (10:34):
Yeah.
So with the prenup queen, theone thing I remember you saying
from another episode that youwere on is that the
misconception is when peoplethink about a prenup, they are
thinking that, you know, we'regonna get divorced, or that's
why we should get a prenup tothink about divorce.
(10:54):
And why do you think that islike, you know?
Deveney (10:57):
I think that's that way because of that.
That's just how uh societypainted it.
Prenups aren't very used to notbe very common.
So all we know was Kanye West'slike, we want prenup, we want
prenup, like gold digger.
We know prenups to be like onlythe really rich need it because
of all the movies and all thecelebrities and all that stuff.
(11:20):
But what I'm trying to reallyteach people and educate people
is the fact that prenups do morethan just protect against
divorce.
And if you're doing the prenupprocess right, if anything, it
would help strengthen themarriage and lower the divorce
rate because it requires such alevel of transparency, such a
(11:40):
level of trust that people don'tseem to do early on in their
relationship, which ismind-boggling me.
But especially doing theseprenup processes, more and more
people, I'm just like, havey'all had this conversation?
Have y'all decided what y'allwant to do?
If y'all are gonna have kids,if you're gonna do X, Y, and Z.
And they've never had thesediscussions before.
And I hope I'm saying thatwithout judgment, because I'm
(12:01):
not trying to come off soundingjudgy, but through the prenup
process and what the prenupqueen is and our course, the
Love Me 12 course, is about, ishaving all of these discussions.
Granted, they are hard,sometimes uncomfortable
discussions, but they're muchneeded discussions to set a very
solid foundation for people sothey have a very solid marriage
(12:23):
moving forward.
That way they're on the samepage on all of these topics.
So that way, if an obstaclecomes, if something pops up,
they've already discussed it.
They already know what's gonnahappen.
It's nothing new.
They have a plan, burst throughthat obstacle.
They've been on the same pagefrom the get-go.
Carlene (12:41):
Yeah.
But you know, the statisticsare that many people are getting
married later on in life.
I what I read was the averageperson out is getting married at
the age of 30, like 30 to 31.
And yeah, and so they're cominginto this marriage with more
assets.
It's not like in the 1950swhere we're like, you know,
(13:01):
she's she's she's at home takingcare of the kids.
And uh, from what you've said,uh, is that women are sometimes
the breadwinner, which is soencouraging.
You know what I mean?
I can't believe it.
Like, it's true.
Like, I I know someone I workwith, and his wife makes more
money than he does.
(13:22):
And so it just changes thewhole process of marriage and
how far we've come in thatlight.
But obviously, toughconversations to have.
So, when someone is gettingmarried, why do you think it's
so hard to, you know, thinkabout a prenuptial agreement?
Like it it sounds scary though.
(13:42):
Like, even when I'm thinkingabout it now, I think it's it's
Hollywood has made this such athing.
Like, I've seen movies where hedidn't get the prenup and she
took him for every last drop.
And, you know, that's the sadpart, right?
Deveney (13:57):
Yeah, yeah.
There's so much you said somany good things, but I will say
yes to the fact that times havechanged.
I wanted to address that too.
Carlene (14:06):
Oh, yes, yeah.
I I went, yeah.
Deveney (14:08):
Yeah.
But yes to the fact that timeshave changed, you know, we're no
longer in the point in ourlives where women couldn't vote,
couldn't have a bank account,couldn't own nothing, right?
So now we have the ability tohave all these assets.
Yes to the fact that people aregetting married later in life.
And I think that's also becausethere people are realizing
there's more to life than justgranted, you're in Canada,
(14:31):
right?
So I'm gonna say the Americandream.
There's more to life.
There's more to life than justmarriage kids and the white
picket fans, right?
Like you can have goals, youcan have hobbies, you can have a
career, you can travel, likethere's so many opportunities
out there.
And then also just peoplebecoming more educated on
marriage itself.
(14:52):
So, yes, that also means cominginto the marriage with more
assets, more money, all thatgood stuff as well.
Does that necessarily meanthere's more to protect?
Sure.
That's what I say.
So people feel the need to getprotection, but I would tell
someone who also had no moneythat they still needed a prena,
just as much as someone who hadall the money in the world needs
a prena.
Carlene (15:12):
So I was talking to a friend, yeah, and someone he
knows is now getting a divorce.
And what happened is the wifeis making more money, and
they're at that age ofretirement and close to
retirement.
And yeah, so the issue is sheis the one that's going to be
getting a better pension.
So here we are in Canada, therethis couple that lives in
(15:34):
Alberta, and so he wasn'tthinking about that, but now
because of the advice from hisfamily members, he can take her
to court for half of herpension, which is something she
did not realize would be anissue because she's the one
making more money.
Deveney (15:52):
Yeah.
And you would think, like,well, it's my pension.
I'm the one who worked allthese years, it should be mine.
Yeah.
I don't know about Alberta, butin community property states
like here in California, even inequitable distribution states,
which would be some other statesthat aren't community property,
it depends.
But in community propertystates, anything that you do
(16:14):
during the marriage iscommunity.
So you working is community.
Your skills, your efforts arecommunity.
And that's why things get tobuy it the way they do.
So I I knew you were gonna talkabout retirement.
And what we call here is graydivorce.
Oh it's very unfortunatebecause the sad part about gray
(16:38):
divorces that they don't thinkabout is their their pension,
their retirement.
So they think I'm about to hit65, 67, whatever the age of
retirement is.
I'm about to settle, I'm aboutto be done working.
They get a divorce, half theirretirement's gone.
That pension, half of it gone.
Yeah.
So they're gonna retire onwhat?
On what money?
Because half of it's now gone.
(17:00):
So sometimes it's uh so eventhough I say that, sometimes
it's fair, sometimes it's not.
And the only time where I thinkit could be fair is when there
has been like a stay-at-homeparent or there has been
somebody who really sacrificedtheir career to be a
stay-at-home whatever.
And I mean like a truestay-at-home, whatever, like
cooking, cleaning, like doingliterally all the domestic
(17:22):
things to allow the other personto live a comfortable life to
go out into their career andbuild it up for what it was.
It makes sense to me then.
But those are things that wetalk about in the prenup.
And so that's probably why alot of people think like, well,
you're already planning ondivorce, because we do talk
about these what ifs, and one ofthe what-ifs does happen to be
divorced.
So they're already, that'slikely why they're thinking,
(17:45):
well, if you're getting aprenup, you're thinking about
divorce.
But you're thinking about somany other things as well.
It's not just about divorce,but what society knows is that a
prenup is protection againstdivorce, but doesn't know what
other protections it serves orwhatever what other purpose a
prenup serves.
Carlene (18:05):
So can you explain what a prenup serves like and the
purpose of a prenup and whyanyone who is listening and is
potentially getting married oryou know, why they should
consider getting a prenup.
Deveney (18:19):
Yeah.
So obviously one of them'sdivorce.
The second one could be debts.
So one of the beautiful thingsthat you can do in a prenup is
to categorize what'scommunity/slash marital, what's
separate.
So if you don't want someoneelse's debts that they might
incur during the marriage to bedeemed community, to which you
(18:40):
now have a 50% obligation inthat debt that they incurred
during the marriage, you can saythat's separate.
That'll be your responsibility.
So if credit credit cardcompanies start coming after
you, if anybody starts comingafter you trying to collect on
that debt, they can't come afterme because it's it's no longer
(19:00):
my responsibility.
Because the also the money youmake during the marriage is
community.
So if you have like a jointbank account and you're putting
all your money in that jointbank account, there's no prenup,
that money is community,meaning the other person that
has all this obligation isentitled to 50% of what's in
that joint bank account.
So the credit card companiescan say, well, you're married,
(19:21):
you're in a community propertystate, I want to see all the
assets that you have.
Because now they're going todetermine do you have a 50%
interest in your partner stuff?
Let's collect that.
And that's where people who umhave partners that get into
substantial debt start to haveall these financial hardships
come into place.
Another big one is if you aredoing a blended family.
(19:45):
So for purposes of creatinglike estate planning or doing a
will, a trust, things of thatnature.
And this is where I tend tocollaborate a lot with estate
planners, because what ends uphappening is, for example, say I
have a child from a previousrelationship and I'm about to
enter into a marriage withsomebody that is not my child's
(20:07):
biological parents.
When I get married to thisperson, and if I'm in a
community property state or evenwhichever state, if I'm getting
married to this person, we nowbecome one unit, community.
There's marital assets,community assets, my incomes,
his income, stuff like that.
If I want to pass things downto my daughter, who is my
(20:27):
biological kid, but not theother person's, not my spouse's,
because again, it's a blendedfamily, it's like the Cinderella
story, where my child might getnothing if I le if I pass
because it's now communityassets.
There's now community assetsthat would just pass to the
other, to my other my spouse.
So to avoid my child living ina Cinderella story, I would have
(20:50):
to have a prena that is goingto specifically outline what's
community and what's separate soI can make sure I pass things
down to her so she's protected.
And that's not to say like Idon't trust this other person to
take care of her, but at theend of the day, I'm saying her,
it could be a he, my future kid.
At the end of the day, that'smy kid, you know, that's my
(21:14):
biological child that I am 100%responsible for, and I need to
make sure she is set for herfuture or his future.
So that's that's my biggestbenefit for a prenup is
protections for blended familiesto avoid Cinderella situation.
Speaker (21:29):
Diva tonight, glamour for your ears.
This is 40, a femaleperspective.
Carlene (21:36):
So while we're talking about like the whole Cinderella
situation, like you know, you'reyou're in love and Prince
Charming has arrived, you know?
Um, so what kind of difficultconversation should Cinderella
be having with Prince Charming,you know?
Deveney (21:53):
Everything, money, obviously.
Carlene (21:56):
Like how much debt you have, like, like you know, those
things, like when you go intolike a like any relationship,
and I find like not everybody'sso like transparent with like
their money issues.
Like it's it's it's it's a hardconversation to have.
Yeah.
Deveney (22:13):
Yes, right.
The three, yeah, they say thethree hardest things to talk
about are I should say fourreligion, money, politics, and
sex.
Those seem to be the mosttaboo, uncomfortable
conversations for people tohave.
But also, you need all four ofthose things to be aligned with
your partner in order to have adecent relationship, right?
(22:34):
So they have to beconversations that people have,
regardless if they want themarriage to be successful.
So the conversations that theyshould have would really be
those four things becausefinances end up being one of the
leading causes of divorce.
Intimacy ends up being an issuewhich could lead to like
infidelity or not, or just thefact that there's no sex
(22:56):
happening in the relationship,and maybe people have different
libidos.
Like it's just a conversationthat has to be had.
And then, of course, religion,politics, there's a mixed back
on whether people can becompatible having different
political stances, or becompatible having different
religious stances or religiousbeliefs.
(23:17):
But at the end of the day, itjust needs to be a conversation.
I know what I want when itcomes to my partner, and I know
that I want to be aligned on allfour of those things.
And I feel like that's also alot of people.
So then they just need to havethose conversations to make sure
they're aligned.
But as far as money andfinances go, I think there's
(23:37):
also a lot of shame when itcomes to money.
Like maybe people just don'tfeel as far ahead as they should
be for their age.
But when you look at stats,like the average person can't
even afford a $1,000 emergency.
Like that's literally justwhere we're at.
And so I think people just feela lot of shame behind that, or
(23:58):
a lot of shame behind being indebt.
Because I can say, like formyself personally, like I have
my student loan and I'm sixfigures, six figures in student
loan debt.
And the the weight of that isso much.
And even just saying that outloud just seems very shameful
(24:19):
because it's like, why are youin debt by six six figures?
And the interest rate, like, myGod.
And then trying to have thatconversation with my partner who
doesn't have nearly as muchstudent loans as I do.
There's so many things likethat will swirl through
someone's head.
Like, again, if I'm just beingvery transparent, like one of my
things is just, well, am Igoing to hold him back from his
(24:41):
goals and his dreams because I'mso busy trying to pay off these
debts that he's not on that,you know, he's not doing the
same thing.
Like maybe he wants to go livea beautiful life and travel and
do all these things.
And I don't know if you'repaying off debt, right?
So now is there in acompatibility issue?
Is this person not going tolove me or not going to want to
be with me because we're notaligned right now?
There's so many things thatpeople probably feel ashamed of
(25:04):
and why it's so scared to havethose conversations, but they
just need to be had.
Because if I didn't have thatconversation, and if he did
decide he, you know, didn't wantto be with me because I had
these student loan debts, that'shis choice to make.
So if I'm hiding that becauseI'm scared he's gonna leave me,
I'm doing him a disservicebecause maybe he doesn't want to
(25:25):
be with me because it we'rejust not financially aligned.
But that's his decision tomake, you know, the right person
for me will stick around andwant to help me, you know, or
support me in paying off mydebts.
Carlene (25:38):
They say like the person that like you want or
that you um align with is prettymuch like your goals in mind.
So like Absolutely, you talkabout money, right?
And so I've I've listened toway too many podcasts, and
they're like, you whatever youwant, you should be aligned with
yourself.
If you want someone who'sambitious, you should be
(26:00):
ambitious.
If you want someone who'sfinancially stable, you should
be working on those things too,because they say you attract
what you are or things that likeyou need to work on, right?
And so what do you think aboutthat?
Because I mean you put you youpretty much just said it.
And I have I still have studentloan debt myself, and I've
actually I'm working with thisconsolidation company because
(26:24):
COVID like just changed thewhole process for me in terms of
like trying to pay that down,and you know, like life happens,
right?
And so I said a lot a whole lotin that question there, but I'm
just gonna, you know, the wholealignment with your finances.
Like you said, you want someonewho's aligned in four of those
(26:44):
parts of life, so like yeah.
Deveney (26:46):
Yeah, I think alignment is absolutely needed
for a very solid relationship.
It doesn't mean they have to bethe exact same as you, but they
can't be like the not polaropposite.
Carlene (26:58):
Yeah.
Deveney (26:59):
You can't have someone who sits there and just spins
willy-nilly and then you have apenny pincher.
Like, there's no way they wouldmesh unless they're fine,
they're gonna find a way tocompromise and get over that.
But it's hard to compromisewhen y'all are just complete
opposites, when you're justpolar opposites.
So the closer aligned you are,the easier it is to compromise
(27:20):
if a compromise has to happen.
Otherwise, if y'all are veryclosely aligned, y'all are
moving through life in a waythat makes sense to you because
y'all are aligned.
So it's not as much as likethere's not as many hurdles that
y'all have to get over.
Carlene (27:33):
Yeah.
And so, like when you'remeeting with clients and
discussing that part of life, Ithink we said this in our prior
discussion that a lot of coupleswho are older, like in their
40s and 50s, they're the onesdealing with divorce now.
And what do you say to the tothe those people who are
(27:55):
considering getting divorced atat that time in your life?
Deveney (27:59):
Like that they need to talk to a financial advisor or
like a financial planner.
Like they need the older youget, the less time you have to
like recover.
You know, when you're in yourearly 20s, you can make these
little mistakes becausewhatever, you still got 40 more
years before you retire.
When you get close toretirement age, you don't have
(28:20):
that luxury.
So one of the first things thatI talk to them about is that
they need to talk to someone toget their finances in order.
And then I do want to make surethey're gonna be financially
prepared.
Granted, when people go throughdivorce, the only time they're
really worried about finances isobviously when we're about to
split them.
But there's especially more sofor women, they're more
(28:40):
emotionally concerned.
Like they're not necessarilyalways worried about the money.
They're they're still on likean emotional roller coaster.
So it is easier for me to workwith men in divorces than it is
to work with women because it'salmost more like a of a therapy
service when I'm representingwomen.
So I'm having more heart tohearts on like this is what you
(29:01):
deserve and talking woman towoman and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Whereas when it's with men,it's like, how much money I'm
getting?
What's getting cut?
Do I get this asset?
Like, they're so more aboutlike the practical yeah, the
tactical stuff.
And in the women, it's likewe're just crying together.
And then it's like, okay, youneed to actually go see a
therapist because it would becheaper for you to go see a
(29:25):
therapist than to be crying withme.
You know, so yeah, women justthink very differently than men
do, and that's also why it'sbeen really hard trying to
attract women to the prenupprocess.
Like, majority of my clients,even in the prenup process, is
men because that's just how theythink.
(29:46):
Like, they're just looking atthings very like black and
white, and women are looking atlike the love and the emotion
and the romance.
And I'm like, girl, like thelaw does not care about
anything.
Of that, like please, so yes.
Carlene (30:06):
Oh my gosh, I guess that reinforces the fact that
men are from Mars and women arefrom Venus.
Like, yes, but I love it.
You know what I mean?
We'll we'll do everything inour power to try and make it
work until it's not working.
Yeah.
Deveney (30:21):
And I hate that for us.
And it's just, I mean, look,I've been there done that,
right?
I am the way I am because Ihave learned my lessons.
Granted, I have never beenmarried, but I am a product of
divorce.
Like my parents divorced also.
But like I've been there, donethat.
I've lived with someone who'ssat there and took advantage of
me financially.
I live with, I've been, what isit called?
(30:44):
Like not Bob the Builder, butlike Brenda the Builder or
whatever.
Like I seen so much potentialin somebody that I was willing
to sacrifice my career, mymoney, myself to try and build
them up, only for them to stilltreat me like crap.
Like I have been there, donethat.
I have learned my lesson.
And if anything, I have learnedthat I need to take better
(31:06):
steps to protect myself becauseI have such a caring heart.
I am so loyal.
I am like, I am a ride or die.
I hate to say that, but I am aride or die.
And I wish if I could go backand tell my younger self
anything, it was either one, putprotections in place or two,
walk away.
Like learn to walk away.
(31:27):
You just need protection.
It's not mutually exclusive tohave love and protection.
You know how you are as aperson.
You know how it can be.
If you've been screwed overbefore, that's a lesson.
Just put protections in place.
You can't control the otherperson.
If they're gonna cheat, they'regonna cheat.
If they're gonna leave, they'regonna leave.
Let them.
But you protected your futureby getting a prenup, postnup,
(31:50):
cohabitation agreement, whateverit is, and that not only
protects your future, but if youhave kids, protects their
futures.
So that way, if that persondecides to leave because they
did whatever they chose to do,or you leave because they did
whatever they chose to do, youknow you can walk away without
all of the litigation.
You can walk away without allthe resentment, all the
(32:12):
spitefulness, them trying tocome at you financially, drown
you in attorney's fees, drownyou in through the litigation
process, like we're done.
Carlene (32:20):
Yeah.
Deveney (32:20):
So yeah, I just I just love to tell people it's not
mutually exclusive, exclusive.
You can be so head over heelswith someone, so in love, but
also love yourself enough toalso protect your future because
you deserve that.
Carlene (32:34):
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, like in in in your personalexperience, like you said like
walking away or set puttingboundaries in place.
So, what are some of the redflags that you ignored that
other, whoever's listening,should pay attention to?
Because I think it's very hardwhen you're in the situation
(32:55):
versus on the outside.
Deveney (32:57):
Um, I want to say that I'll talk about the red flags.
I think one of the biggest oneswould have been listening to my
mom.
She's like she just knows.
She's like, Dad, he is not theone, like absolutely not.
And I'm like, But mom, but Ilove him.
And like she just knew.
But that was one of them.
The second thing I can say isthe you hit you hit it on the no
(33:20):
when you said ambition.
Um, I dated someone who justdid not have the drive to do
better in life.
Whereas I did, like I did hisresumes, I sent out his resumes,
I helped him get these jobs,like I cooked for him, cleaned
for him, but I was also thebreadwinner.
I was also the one paying thebills, you know, like I did it
(33:43):
all only for him to go cheat onme with somebody else.
And then when I leave, keyed mycar.
Like it, like I just keyed mycar and gaslit me.
I I took him back for a littlebit and realized like that was
like the biggest mistake, andthen had to kick him out.
And it got to the point wherethen there was domestic violence
(34:04):
involved, to the point wherethe cops had to come, to the
point where the cops had to takehim to jail.
Like it, yeah, I've been there,I've I've done that.
I am loyal to a fault because Ireally do want to believe that
there's good in people.
And maybe there, maybe thereis, and I want to keep that,
right?
Like, not me about to like tearup, but I want to believe that
(34:26):
there's good in people.
And even like now as a divorceattorney, it's really hard
because it's making me veryjaded to love.
And that's partly why I lovethe prenup queen, because I'm
able to see these couples likeso head over heels for each for
each other.
And honestly, even still goingthrough the prenup process, like
watching them want to protectthe other person.
(34:46):
Like, well, babe, that's notgonna be fair for you.
Like that whole conversation isjust, I love it.
You know, and they're sittingthere having these, I just I
love it.
And so it's also why I want todo more work in the prenup realm
because I want to build thosetypes of relationships.
I want people to like just havevery solid foundations.
(35:07):
Yeah.
And because the divorce rate isso high right now.
If we can just lower it, that'dbe nice.
But I went off on a tangent.
But those are my lessonslearned.
Yeah.
Wow.
I've I've been with several menwho just didn't have the
ambition.
I've been with men who hadvery, I've only been with four
guys.
I've been with one person whohad two people who had no
ambition or not as much drive asI did.
(35:27):
I've been with another personwho had a different religious
belief.
And it wasn't necessarily harduntil like his in-laws got
involved, and then that becamehard.
So yeah, alignment is crucial.
Carlene (35:41):
Yeah.
No, it's sir, it certainly is.
And I think if you're I I I Iunderstand where you're coming
from, where you give with allyour heart and like you want to
help.
And like sometimes I'm like, Iremember like thinking about
what you said with therelationship.
I remember dating this guy.
It wasn't like long term, but Idated him and he was going
through so much.
Like he was dealing with theex, and then his and then his
(36:02):
father had passed away a whileback.
And I'm like, this guy's moreemotional than I am.
And I I can't, I can help you,but only so much.
And then I I realized like Ican't do this.
Like it's draining me too much.
So when it when it's it's thathard, then you have to like walk
away, like you said, right?
And but it's it's it's justhuman nature.
(36:24):
And obviously, um, you foundyour calling, which is
important, you know what I mean?
That you're helping people dothe the hard thing.
That's it's the hardest thing,you know, to think about those
things.
And so what do you do to helpwith the kind of work that you
do?
Because it it sounds like it'smentally taxing, not physically,
(36:45):
more like mentally taxing onyourself.
Deveney (36:48):
And yeah, it's mentally taxing and it's
emotionally taxing.
And so funny that you askedbecause we've actually decided
to take a turn at the firm.
So my firm is Wells GibsonFamily Law, and we've now
strayed away from doinglitigation.
So now, I mean, I still have mylitigation clients.
I'm not leaving them.
Like I took them on as clients.
(37:08):
When I say I'm loyal to afault, I'm I'm I'm in the
journey with them.
I'm in it with them.
Um, they trusted me and I'mgoing, I'm I'm a ride or die.
So I'll keep them, but we'rejust not taking on any more
litigation clients.
And now we've turned the firminto mediation.
So now we're focusing on doingprimarily mediation at the firm.
(37:28):
So that way we're not having todeal with as much of the
mentally and emotionally taxingpart of divorce, which I feel
like even that still gives me,it makes me sad because, and I'm
not, I'm not trying to toot myown horn or anything like that,
but like I'm a damn goodattorney.
And it's like I do enjoy beingin court and I do enjoy that
(37:50):
process, but it's just it, it'sjust too much stress having 40
clients constantly coming at mebecause the other person did
something, and then there's thekids involved.
And then it's like to them, toevery single person, it is an
emergency because it is theirfamily dynamics being altered.
It is their financial positionsbeing altered.
(38:11):
It's it's literally changingtheir lives.
And so just having 40 clientsat one time constantly needing
me has just become very taxing.
So I do think for mepersonally, I just need to take
a step back.
And I do want to, you know, nowchange my career into something
that's going to bring me a lotmore joy than what the firm was
(38:34):
previously doing.
Carlene (38:35):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's very powerful for sure.
Because I think you know what?
And in every line of work,there's always the the the hard
the hard part that you have todeal with.
And it's true, you're you'redealing with people's lives and
and like they want you to do allthese things.
Like, I mean, as a lawyer,right?
But there's only so much youcan do to help them.
(38:57):
So I think, yeah.
So I think, I think, I think toto ask the last question, what
what advice do you have forsomeone who is getting married?
Because I I maybe not gettingmarried, but maybe just thinking
of getting divorced.
Like, I think it's really hard.
It's I I think it's the hardestthing to do.
Like you see it in movies andTV shows, and you know, from
(39:20):
your own personal experiencewatching it unfold, what and as
a product, you're two questions.
So, as a child of parents whoare divorced, what advice do you
have for anyone else who'slistening and also someone who's
considering divorce?
Deveney (39:36):
Yeah, as a child of divorce, granted, that's also
partly why I wanted to be anattorney.
Yeah.
With the kids, I would say itis each parent's responsibility
to protect their kids.
And what that means can isobviously a lot of different
things.
But that's also so if you'rethinking about getting married,
(39:56):
if you know you want to havekids, putting up as much
protection as possible to try tokeep their lives as stable as
possible.
And I say that because when mymom divorced, we went from
living in a it was a two-incomehousehold.
Um, and it was verycomfortable.
It was a very comfortablehousehold to my mom now being
divorced and working three jobsand being the primary parent.
(40:19):
And my dad was more of like theweekend parent up up until he
eventually just decided not tobe active in my life at all.
So watching her work three jobswas a lot.
Her missing out on myextracurriculars because I ended
up playing volleyball all theway through college, but her not
being able to attend a lot ofthose things because she's so
(40:40):
busy working to try to make suremy life isn't altered.
But at the same time, the sadpart is her no longer being as
present has also altered my lifebecause she's worried about the
finances.
And I'm just worried about herpresence.
Because as a kid, I don't careabout the finances, right?
But as an adult, you do.
So I would say it's anotherreason to get a prenup.
(41:01):
You really just never knowwhat's gonna happen in life.
No one wants the worst casescenario to happen to them.
No one gets married thinkingthey're going to get divorced.
No, no one has that thought,okay?
Yet 40 to 50, 40 to 50 percentof first-time marriages end in
divorce.
And that statistic increaseswith every subsequent marriage
(41:23):
that you have.
So second-time marriages, up tolike 60% of them end in
divorce.
When you get married for thethird time, statistically
speaking, 73% of third-timemarriages end in divorce.
The divorce rate's very high,right?
You just never know.
So I would say just have theprotection.
Now, for the people who arethinking about getting divorced,
(41:44):
I will also say don't stay in amarriage for your kids.
We are watching, we seeeverything that happens.
So if you are a woman and youare being mistreated by a man,
however, or whatever.
Carlene (41:58):
Yeah.
Deveney (42:00):
The kids are watching.
So if you have a daughter,she's saying, is this how a man
is supposed to treat me?
Is is this is this what arelation, is this what a healthy
relationship looks like?
They were looking at you as arole model.
Then if you have a kid, oh, isthis how I'm supposed to talk?
I'm sorry, if you have a a son,oh, is that how I'm supposed to
talk to women?
Oh, is that how a man issupposed to lead in this
(42:21):
relationship?
Oh, or whatever the case maybe, your kids are watching.
So it is okay to leave becauseit it would be hard, yes, but it
is better for your kids to seetwo have happy parents than to
see miserable parents.
What else do I say?
Oh, for if getting a divorce ishard.
Same thing, talk to someone inthe finance sector, make sure
(42:43):
you're gonna get your financesin order.
Divorce is not cheap,especially if you're gonna hire
an attorney, it is not cheap atall.
And I promise you that moneycan be better served going
somewhere else.
But sometimes some cases justresult in litigation because you
just have two people who arevery resentful, very spiteful,
just want to battle it out whenthat money can go to college
(43:06):
funds, go to the kids, gotravel, go do literally anything
else.
So just to make sure you aregoing to be food and housing
secure and you have somefinances somewhere to be able to
get through the litigationprocess.
Carlene (43:21):
Yeah, that is some great advice.
And as someone who grew up in avery dysfunctional household
with parents who always argued,it does a number on you and you
start to think that that isnormal and it's not.
And I had to do a lot ofunlearning of that behavior.
What's important is that youare working with families as a
(43:45):
prenup queen.
So if anyone wants to work withyou or get advice, legal
advice, you know, how can theycontact you?
Deveney (43:53):
Of course.
So obviously I'm on the gram oreven TikTok.
Oh my god.
But I'm on the gram, Instagramat theprenup queen.
Same thing on TikTok.
If anyone's on TikTok, or youcan just email me, help H E L P
at theprenupqueen.com.
And our website, theprenupqueen.com.
Carlene (44:13):
Theprenupqueen.com.
I mean, it's it says it.
I love that.
You know what I mean?
Got some rights with likeKanye.
Yo, Kanye, can we oh my gosh.
Well, thank you so much, DevaniWells Gibson, for being such a
great guest.
And I just appreciate theadvice you've given.
(44:34):
It it's it makes you think alot about what your future could
be like.
I think planning ahead is soimportant.
It'll save you down the line,right?
And so thank you so much forbeing on the show.
I appreciate it.
Deveney (44:49):
Of course, thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Speaker (44:51):
Diva Tonight with Carlene will be back.
Send us a message on Instagramat Diva underscore tonight.
Hi, I'm Carlene, and this is Diva.
Tonight I have with me on ZoomDeveney Wells Gibson.
She is a leading family lawattorney, entrepreneur, and
financial advocate, and she isin San Diego.
That's where she's based, andshe's here to discuss.
(00:23):
I think what's really importantas the prenup queen herself,
why prenuptials agreements areimportant, obviously.
But because this is a seriesdevoted to women in their 40s, I
thought this would be a veryinteresting conversation for
women in general and men too, todiscuss why one is so
(00:44):
important.
So hi Deveney.
unknown (00:46):
Hello.
Deveney (00:46):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited.
Definitely.
Carlene (00:49):
I'm excited too.
I did a little digging and Isee that you went to law school.
Well, it's it's it's your homeis in Texas.
You grew up in Texas.
Deveney (00:59):
Yep.
Carlene (01:00):
And Texas is known for that southern drawl, y'all.
Like my cousin.
Kudos to her.
Like whenever she whenever shewas visiting, whenever we visit
her, I was always waiting forher to say, y'all, are we going
to Walmart?
You know?
Deveney (01:17):
Yeah.
No one ever thinks I'm from theSouth or from Texas because
they say I don't have an accent,but the only reason they ever
know is because I say y'all.
Like that's that's a deadgiveaway every time.
Carlene (01:30):
Yeah, yeah.
It's it's a thing, right?
Do you miss Texas?
Deveney (01:36):
Um, no, I miss my mom.
Okay.
She's down in Texas.
So I mean, I miss seeing myfamily and seeing my friends.
So I'll go down there for likethe holidays or for like my
mom's birthday, but I don'tparticularly miss living down
there.
Now, will I go back to livedown there?
Maybe.
Um, why I think it's justbecause I just like different
(01:59):
things.
I get bored.
That sounds terrible.
I get bored quite easily.
And so, which I do feel boredwith San Diego, to be very, very
frank.
And so, like, I'm alreadyitching to see what my next
adventure is, where do I want tolive next, things like that.
But yeah, it there's nothingwrong with Texas.
It's great.
Like financially, it's great tolive down there.
The cost of living is so lowcompared to San Diego,
(02:20):
California.
And then, of course, all myfriends' family down there.
The politics are different,obviously, between Texas and
California, but that doesn'tnecessarily bother me in such a
way because I just grew up veryconservative, even though that's
not that we're trying to getinto politics, but like I'm used
to that culture.
So yeah.
Carlene (02:40):
Yeah.
I know we're not gonna get intopolitics.
I think I'll steer clear fromthat.
But uh so where did you go tolaw school?
I think that's an importantquestion to ask, you know?
Deveney (02:53):
Yeah.
Um, Cal Western.
So in San Diego, California.
So that is actually what movedme out here to California was to
go to law school.
And I went to law school in2017, and then I've just stayed
here ever since.
Carlene (03:05):
Okay, so I guess you've been there for quite a little
while.
Like it's not like you justmoved there, and law school is
is it sounds intense.
Was it intense?
Can you for those that likedon't have a law degree and like
there's a lot of readinginvolved, and like it's not like
it's not like in legallyblonde, is it?
Deveney (03:25):
Like no, no, and that's where a lot of people get
tripped up because they seelegally blonde or they see uh
any of the lawyer shows, andthey think that's what it's
like, and it's that's not alwaysthe case.
Um, is law school hard?
Um I'll say this.
There are people in law school,and I'm shocked on how they got
(03:47):
in.
I will leave it at that.
But me personally, I will say Igrew up not being like the most
studious person.
It wasn't until I got tocollege, like undergrad, where I
was just like, oh, you knowwhat?
I actually like school.
And then going to law school, Iexcelled.
And it's not like I'm differentthan anybody else.
It's not like I did anythingbigger or better because I was
(04:08):
that type of person that waslike, once 10 p.m.
comes around, I'm gonna bed.
I don't do all nighters.
I don't spend all day in thelibrary like a lot of people
did.
I think maybe for me, I wasjust very strict on my
boundaries.
And it's just like, no, I gothomework to do, I gotta go work
out, I eat the same thing everysingle time.
Like I was just so consistent.
(04:29):
And I think that just helped mebe a good student.
And then I did study when I wassupposed to, obviously.
But it's not like college whereyou can just go party and then
wing a test or something likethat.
It's that's very different.
Analyzing in law school is alsovery different than analyzing
or doing like work in undergrad.
Like the process that you haveto like uncover with your brain.
(04:51):
I don't know how to get like, Idon't know how to explain it,
but just analyzing is verydifferent in law school.
So it I will say for the peoplewho do law school straight out
of college, they've struggledbecause it's a very different
type of way of thinking.
But I will say I didn't go tolaw school straight out of
undergrad.
Like I had my undergrad, I wentto go work for three years and
(05:14):
then came back to law school.
So I had a little bit of a gapbefore going back to law school.
Carlene (05:20):
You know, I you know what's interesting that you say
like you took a break.
And I think when I wasgraduating from high school,
they made it seem like if youtook a break from going from
high school to university andthen having time in the
workforce that it would stop youfrom like, you know, doing more
further education.
(05:40):
And I and I think that's likeit depends on the person.
Yeah, I really do.
Because I did my undergrad too,and then I worked, and then I
realized like I need to go backto school to change like what
I'm gonna study, you know what Imean?
So after you graduate collegeand then you decide you're gonna
go to law school, what was thedriving force behind that?
Like, what was the motivation?
Deveney (06:01):
My mom rem like reminded me that I've always
wanted to be an attorney.
So I had a family friend whowas a criminal attorney, and I
just wanted to be like her sobadly.
Not criminal, that was like theone area I would not touch with
a 10-foot pole.
Like, would not, but I lovedher type of work.
I liked her work ethic, I likedthe purpose-driven part of what
(06:23):
she was doing.
And ever since meeting her, Iknew I wanted to be an attorney.
After I graduated fromundergrad, I just, I don't know,
I just started working.
And I just remember being atwork one day, being super
miserable.
And I was on the phone with mymom, and I was just like, what
is life?
I was like, this is what Iwanted.
(06:43):
I wanted to grow up to be anadult to do this the rest of my
life.
Like, what is this?
Like, adulting is ghetto.
And she was like, Well, whathappened to your dream of being
an attorney?
That's what you've alwayswanted to do.
Why aren't you doing it?
And I was just like, You'reright.
And so I kid you, not like thatmonth, that's when I just
started putting things in place,getting ready to take the LSAT,
(07:06):
getting ready to make thatmove, notified my employer that
that's what I wanted to do wasto be an attorney.
And honestly, my employer wasprobably one of the best
employers ever.
They gave me so much support.
Um, and so yeah, when Ieventually left, and that's back
in Texas.
So then when I eventually left,like the send-off, they were so
(07:26):
sweet, wishing me best of luck.
I'm still in contact with quitea few of them, whether it's
Facebook or Instagram.
Sometimes they check on me justto see how I'm doing.
Like, but long story short, toanswer your question, it was my
mom having a phone call withher, her reminding me of my
dreams.
Carlene (07:42):
Yeah.
You know, it's always nice tohave someone that's gonna
support your dream.
I think that's what pushes ussometimes, because as long as
you have like just one person inyour corner, I think that's
like the stepping stone tokeeping you on track with where
you are.
And even if you did go to lawschool and you're not practicing
(08:02):
a law, at least you gave it thegood old college try.
You could say, like, I did it,you know what I mean?
I and and that's the thing.
I think that when people areare disappointed with how things
turned out is because theydidn't even try, right?
And so it's so important.
But getting back to the topicof hand, actually, you know, I
have a question.
What is the difference betweenan attorney and a lawyer?
(08:24):
Like, is it just a differentterminology?
Deveney (08:27):
Like, okay, you know what?
I actually had to look intothis because they are actually
different, even though I do usethem, I use them interchangeably
because people don't know thatthere's a difference.
And honestly, I didn't knowthere was a difference until
like last year.
I believe an attorney issomeone who is like actually
practicing, past the barpracticing.
(08:47):
A lawyer is someone who justgraduated from law school, they
have their JD, and then youbecome an attorney once you've
passed the bar and you'repracticing.
Carlene (08:57):
So you can only practice in San Diego?
Is can you practice in anyother state?
Deveney (09:02):
I can only practice in California.
Carlene (09:04):
Oh, in California, okay.
Yeah.
Deveney (09:06):
But if I go to another state, I have to get licensed
in that state and go through alltheir hoops to be able to
practice in that state.
Carlene (09:16):
Yeah.
Deveney (09:16):
And some states are very different.
Some require like a whole newform of testing.
Other states say you can likewave in, like if you pass the
bar that's like comparable totheirs or harder than theirs,
they allow for you just to wavein, maybe take like a little bit
of a multiple choice test, andthen you're good to go.
But like here in California, ifyou lived in Texas and
(09:36):
practiced in Texas, you have tocome to California and retake
their entire bar in order topractice here.
And some other states are theexact same way.
Carlene (09:45):
So if you plan to move, that would be definitely
something that you would have tothink about too, right?
Yeah.
Deveney (09:52):
Yeah.
But I will say one of thebenefits that came from COVID is
virtual court.
So yeah, now attorney nowthere's firms that are all
virtual, complete, completevirtual.
They have no office space,nothing.
They do everything virtually,they appear in court virtually.
Even though I personally have adistaste for that, I think that
(10:14):
I think it does people adisservice, especially when it's
a very important like matter.
Yeah.
But there are attorneys whoonly appear virtually.
Yeah, so that's that's prettyinteresting.
But as far as what I'm tryingto do with like prenup queen, I
don't that would keep me out ofthe courtroom.
Carlene (10:34):
Yeah.
So with the prenup queen, theone thing I remember you saying
from another episode that youwere on is that the
misconception is when peoplethink about a prenup, they are
thinking that, you know, we'regonna get divorced, or that's
why we should get a prenup tothink about divorce.
(10:54):
And why do you think that islike, you know?
Deveney (10:57):
I think that's that way because of that.
That's just how uh societypainted it.
Prenups aren't very used to notbe very common.
So all we know was Kanye West'slike, we want prenup, we want
prenup, like gold digger.
We know prenups to be like onlythe really rich need it because
of all the movies and all thecelebrities and all that stuff.
(11:20):
But what I'm trying to reallyteach people and educate people
is the fact that prenups do morethan just protect against
divorce.
And if you're doing the prenupprocess right, if anything, it
would help strengthen themarriage and lower the divorce
rate because it requires such alevel of transparency, such a
(11:40):
level of trust that people don'tseem to do early on in their
relationship, which ismind-boggling me.
But especially doing theseprenup processes, more and more
people, I'm just like, havey'all had this conversation?
Have y'all decided what y'allwant to do?
If y'all are gonna have kids,if you're gonna do X, Y, and Z.
And they've never had thesediscussions before.
And I hope I'm saying thatwithout judgment, because I'm
(12:01):
not trying to come off soundingjudgy, but through the prenup
process and what the prenupqueen is and our course, the
Love Me 12 course, is about, ishaving all of these discussions.
Granted, they are hard,sometimes uncomfortable
discussions, but they're muchneeded discussions to set a very
solid foundation for people sothey have a very solid marriage
(12:23):
moving forward.
That way they're on the samepage on all of these topics.
So that way, if an obstaclecomes, if something pops up,
they've already discussed it.
They already know what's gonnahappen.
It's nothing new.
They have a plan, burst throughthat obstacle.
They've been on the same pagefrom the get-go.
Carlene (12:41):
Yeah.
But you know, the statisticsare that many people are getting
married later on in life.
I what I read was the averageperson out is getting married at
the age of 30, like 30 to 31.
And yeah, and so they're cominginto this marriage with more
assets.
It's not like in the 1950swhere we're like, you know,
(13:01):
she's she's she's at home takingcare of the kids.
And uh, from what you've said,uh, is that women are sometimes
the breadwinner, which is soencouraging.
You know what I mean?
I can't believe it.
Like, it's true.
Like, I I know someone I workwith, and his wife makes more
money than he does.
(13:22):
And so it just changes thewhole process of marriage and
how far we've come in thatlight.
But obviously, toughconversations to have.
So, when someone is gettingmarried, why do you think it's
so hard to, you know, thinkabout a prenuptial agreement?
Like it it sounds scary though.
(13:42):
Like, even when I'm thinkingabout it now, I think it's it's
Hollywood has made this such athing.
Like, I've seen movies where hedidn't get the prenup and she
took him for every last drop.
And, you know, that's the sadpart, right?
Deveney (13:57):
Yeah, yeah.
There's so much you said somany good things, but I will say
yes to the fact that times havechanged.
I wanted to address that too.
Carlene (14:06):
Oh, yes, yeah.
I I went, yeah.
Deveney (14:08):
Yeah.
But yes to the fact that timeshave changed, you know, we're no
longer in the point in ourlives where women couldn't vote,
couldn't have a bank account,couldn't own nothing, right?
So now we have the ability tohave all these assets.
Yes to the fact that people aregetting married later in life.
And I think that's also becausethere people are realizing
there's more to life than justgranted, you're in Canada,
(14:31):
right?
So I'm gonna say the Americandream.
There's more to life.
There's more to life than justmarriage kids and the white
picket fans, right?
Like you can have goals, youcan have hobbies, you can have a
career, you can travel, likethere's so many opportunities
out there.
And then also just peoplebecoming more educated on
marriage itself.
(14:52):
So, yes, that also means cominginto the marriage with more
assets, more money, all thatgood stuff as well.
Does that necessarily meanthere's more to protect?
Sure.
That's what I say.
So people feel the need to getprotection, but I would tell
someone who also had no moneythat they still needed a prena,
just as much as someone who hadall the money in the world needs
a prena.
Carlene (15:12):
So I was talking to a friend, yeah, and someone he
knows is now getting a divorce.
And what happened is the wifeis making more money, and
they're at that age ofretirement and close to
retirement.
And yeah, so the issue is sheis the one that's going to be
getting a better pension.
So here we are in Canada, therethis couple that lives in
(15:34):
Alberta, and so he wasn'tthinking about that, but now
because of the advice from hisfamily members, he can take her
to court for half of herpension, which is something she
did not realize would be anissue because she's the one
making more money.
Deveney (15:52):
Yeah.
And you would think, like,well, it's my pension.
I'm the one who worked allthese years, it should be mine.
Yeah.
I don't know about Alberta, butin community property states
like here in California, even inequitable distribution states,
which would be some other statesthat aren't community property,
it depends.
But in community propertystates, anything that you do
(16:14):
during the marriage iscommunity.
So you working is community.
Your skills, your efforts arecommunity.
And that's why things get tobuy it the way they do.
So I I knew you were gonna talkabout retirement.
And what we call here is graydivorce.
Oh it's very unfortunatebecause the sad part about gray
(16:38):
divorces that they don't thinkabout is their their pension,
their retirement.
So they think I'm about to hit65, 67, whatever the age of
retirement is.
I'm about to settle, I'm aboutto be done working.
They get a divorce, half theirretirement's gone.
That pension, half of it gone.
Yeah.
So they're gonna retire onwhat?
On what money?
Because half of it's now gone.
(17:00):
So sometimes it's uh so eventhough I say that, sometimes
it's fair, sometimes it's not.
And the only time where I thinkit could be fair is when there
has been like a stay-at-homeparent or there has been
somebody who really sacrificedtheir career to be a
stay-at-home whatever.
And I mean like a truestay-at-home, whatever, like
cooking, cleaning, like doingliterally all the domestic
(17:22):
things to allow the other personto live a comfortable life to
go out into their career andbuild it up for what it was.
It makes sense to me then.
But those are things that wetalk about in the prenup.
And so that's probably why alot of people think like, well,
you're already planning ondivorce, because we do talk
about these what ifs, and one ofthe what-ifs does happen to be
divorced.
So they're already, that'slikely why they're thinking,
(17:45):
well, if you're getting aprenup, you're thinking about
divorce.
But you're thinking about somany other things as well.
It's not just about divorce,but what society knows is that a
prenup is protection againstdivorce, but doesn't know what
other protections it serves orwhatever what other purpose a
prenup serves.
Carlene (18:05):
So can you explain what a prenup serves like and the
purpose of a prenup and whyanyone who is listening and is
potentially getting married oryou know, why they should
consider getting a prenup.
Deveney (18:19):
Yeah.
So obviously one of them'sdivorce.
The second one could be debts.
So one of the beautiful thingsthat you can do in a prenup is
to categorize what'scommunity/slash marital, what's
separate.
So if you don't want someoneelse's debts that they might
incur during the marriage to bedeemed community, to which you
(18:40):
now have a 50% obligation inthat debt that they incurred
during the marriage, you can saythat's separate.
That'll be your responsibility.
So if credit credit cardcompanies start coming after
you, if anybody starts comingafter you trying to collect on
that debt, they can't come afterme because it's it's no longer
(19:00):
my responsibility.
Because the also the money youmake during the marriage is
community.
So if you have like a jointbank account and you're putting
all your money in that jointbank account, there's no prenup,
that money is community,meaning the other person that
has all this obligation isentitled to 50% of what's in
that joint bank account.
So the credit card companiescan say, well, you're married,
(19:21):
you're in a community propertystate, I want to see all the
assets that you have.
Because now they're going todetermine do you have a 50%
interest in your partner stuff?
Let's collect that.
And that's where people who umhave partners that get into
substantial debt start to haveall these financial hardships
come into place.
Another big one is if you aredoing a blended family.
(19:45):
So for purposes of creatinglike estate planning or doing a
will, a trust, things of thatnature.
And this is where I tend tocollaborate a lot with estate
planners, because what ends uphappening is, for example, say I
have a child from a previousrelationship and I'm about to
enter into a marriage withsomebody that is not my child's
(20:07):
biological parents.
When I get married to thisperson, and if I'm in a
community property state or evenwhichever state, if I'm getting
married to this person, we nowbecome one unit, community.
There's marital assets,community assets, my incomes,
his income, stuff like that.
If I want to pass things downto my daughter, who is my
(20:27):
biological kid, but not theother person's, not my spouse's,
because again, it's a blendedfamily, it's like the Cinderella
story, where my child might getnothing if I le if I pass
because it's now communityassets.
There's now community assetsthat would just pass to the
other, to my other my spouse.
So to avoid my child living ina Cinderella story, I would have
(20:50):
to have a prena that is goingto specifically outline what's
community and what's separate soI can make sure I pass things
down to her so she's protected.
And that's not to say like Idon't trust this other person to
take care of her, but at theend of the day, I'm saying her,
it could be a he, my future kid.
At the end of the day, that'smy kid, you know, that's my
(21:14):
biological child that I am 100%responsible for, and I need to
make sure she is set for herfuture or his future.
So that's that's my biggestbenefit for a prenup is
protections for blended familiesto avoid Cinderella situation.
Speaker (21:29):
Diva tonight, glamour for your ears.
This is 40, a femaleperspective.
Carlene (21:36):
So while we're talking about like the whole Cinderella
situation, like you know, you'reyou're in love and Prince
Charming has arrived, you know?
Um, so what kind of difficultconversation should Cinderella
be having with Prince Charming,you know?
Deveney (21:53):
Everything, money, obviously.
Carlene (21:56):
Like how much debt you have, like, like you know, those
things, like when you go intolike a like any relationship,
and I find like not everybody'sso like transparent with like
their money issues.
Like it's it's it's it's a hardconversation to have.
Yeah.
Deveney (22:13):
Yes, right.
The three, yeah, they say thethree hardest things to talk
about are I should say fourreligion, money, politics, and
sex.
Those seem to be the mosttaboo, uncomfortable
conversations for people tohave.
But also, you need all four ofthose things to be aligned with
your partner in order to have adecent relationship, right?
(22:34):
So they have to beconversations that people have,
regardless if they want themarriage to be successful.
So the conversations that theyshould have would really be
those four things becausefinances end up being one of the
leading causes of divorce.
Intimacy ends up being an issuewhich could lead to like
infidelity or not, or just thefact that there's no sex
(22:56):
happening in the relationship,and maybe people have different
libidos.
Like it's just a conversationthat has to be had.
And then, of course, religion,politics, there's a mixed back
on whether people can becompatible having different
political stances, or becompatible having different
religious stances or religiousbeliefs.
(23:17):
But at the end of the day, itjust needs to be a conversation.
I know what I want when itcomes to my partner, and I know
that I want to be aligned on allfour of those things.
And I feel like that's also alot of people.
So then they just need to havethose conversations to make sure
they're aligned.
But as far as money andfinances go, I think there's
(23:37):
also a lot of shame when itcomes to money.
Like maybe people just don'tfeel as far ahead as they should
be for their age.
But when you look at stats,like the average person can't
even afford a $1,000 emergency.
Like that's literally justwhere we're at.
And so I think people just feela lot of shame behind that, or
(23:58):
a lot of shame behind being indebt.
Because I can say, like formyself personally, like I have
my student loan and I'm sixfigures, six figures in student
loan debt.
And the the weight of that isso much.
And even just saying that outloud just seems very shameful
(24:19):
because it's like, why are youin debt by six six figures?
And the interest rate, like, myGod.
And then trying to have thatconversation with my partner who
doesn't have nearly as muchstudent loans as I do.
There's so many things likethat will swirl through
someone's head.
Like, again, if I'm just beingvery transparent, like one of my
things is just, well, am Igoing to hold him back from his
(24:41):
goals and his dreams because I'mso busy trying to pay off these
debts that he's not on that,you know, he's not doing the
same thing.
Like maybe he wants to go livea beautiful life and travel and
do all these things.
And I don't know if you'repaying off debt, right?
So now is there in acompatibility issue?
Is this person not going tolove me or not going to want to
be with me because we're notaligned right now?
There's so many things thatpeople probably feel ashamed of
(25:04):
and why it's so scared to havethose conversations, but they
just need to be had.
Because if I didn't have thatconversation, and if he did
decide he, you know, didn't wantto be with me because I had
these student loan debts, that'shis choice to make.
So if I'm hiding that becauseI'm scared he's gonna leave me,
I'm doing him a disservicebecause maybe he doesn't want to
(25:25):
be with me because it we'rejust not financially aligned.
But that's his decision tomake, you know, the right person
for me will stick around andwant to help me, you know, or
support me in paying off mydebts.
Carlene (25:38):
They say like the person that like you want or
that you um align with is prettymuch like your goals in mind.
So like Absolutely, you talkabout money, right?
And so I've I've listened toway too many podcasts, and
they're like, you whatever youwant, you should be aligned with
yourself.
If you want someone who'sambitious, you should be
(26:00):
ambitious.
If you want someone who'sfinancially stable, you should
be working on those things too,because they say you attract
what you are or things that likeyou need to work on, right?
And so what do you think aboutthat?
Because I mean you put you youpretty much just said it.
And I have I still have studentloan debt myself, and I've
actually I'm working with thisconsolidation company because
(26:24):
COVID like just changed thewhole process for me in terms of
like trying to pay that down,and you know, like life happens,
right?
And so I said a lot a whole lotin that question there, but I'm
just gonna, you know, the wholealignment with your finances.
Like you said, you want someonewho's aligned in four of those
(26:44):
parts of life, so like yeah.
Deveney (26:46):
Yeah, I think alignment is absolutely needed
for a very solid relationship.
It doesn't mean they have to bethe exact same as you, but they
can't be like the not polaropposite.
Carlene (26:58):
Yeah.
Deveney (26:59):
You can't have someone who sits there and just spins
willy-nilly and then you have apenny pincher.
Like, there's no way they wouldmesh unless they're fine,
they're gonna find a way tocompromise and get over that.
But it's hard to compromisewhen y'all are just complete
opposites, when you're justpolar opposites.
So the closer aligned you are,the easier it is to compromise
(27:20):
if a compromise has to happen.
Otherwise, if y'all are veryclosely aligned, y'all are
moving through life in a waythat makes sense to you because
y'all are aligned.
So it's not as much as likethere's not as many hurdles that
y'all have to get over.
Carlene (27:33):
Yeah.
And so, like when you'remeeting with clients and
discussing that part of life, Ithink we said this in our prior
discussion that a lot of coupleswho are older, like in their
40s and 50s, they're the onesdealing with divorce now.
And what do you say to the tothe those people who are
(27:55):
considering getting divorced atat that time in your life?
Deveney (27:59):
Like that they need to talk to a financial advisor or
like a financial planner.
Like they need the older youget, the less time you have to
like recover.
You know, when you're in yourearly 20s, you can make these
little mistakes becausewhatever, you still got 40 more
years before you retire.
When you get close toretirement age, you don't have
(28:20):
that luxury.
So one of the first things thatI talk to them about is that
they need to talk to someone toget their finances in order.
And then I do want to make surethey're gonna be financially
prepared.
Granted, when people go throughdivorce, the only time they're
really worried about finances isobviously when we're about to
split them.
But there's especially more sofor women, they're more
(28:40):
emotionally concerned.
Like they're not necessarilyalways worried about the money.
They're they're still on likean emotional roller coaster.
So it is easier for me to workwith men in divorces than it is
to work with women because it'salmost more like a of a therapy
service when I'm representingwomen.
So I'm having more heart tohearts on like this is what you
(29:01):
deserve and talking woman towoman and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Whereas when it's with men,it's like, how much money I'm
getting?
What's getting cut?
Do I get this asset?
Like, they're so more aboutlike the practical yeah, the
tactical stuff.
And in the women, it's likewe're just crying together.
And then it's like, okay, youneed to actually go see a
therapist because it would becheaper for you to go see a
(29:25):
therapist than to be crying withme.
You know, so yeah, women justthink very differently than men
do, and that's also why it'sbeen really hard trying to
attract women to the prenupprocess.
Like, majority of my clients,even in the prenup process, is
men because that's just how theythink.
(29:46):
Like, they're just looking atthings very like black and
white, and women are looking atlike the love and the emotion
and the romance.
And I'm like, girl, like thelaw does not care about
anything.
Of that, like please, so yes.
Carlene (30:06):
Oh my gosh, I guess that reinforces the fact that
men are from Mars and women arefrom Venus.
Like, yes, but I love it.
You know what I mean?
We'll we'll do everything inour power to try and make it
work until it's not working.
Yeah.
Deveney (30:21):
And I hate that for us.
And it's just, I mean, look,I've been there done that,
right?
I am the way I am because Ihave learned my lessons.
Granted, I have never beenmarried, but I am a product of
divorce.
Like my parents divorced also.
But like I've been there, donethat.
I've lived with someone who'ssat there and took advantage of
me financially.
I live with, I've been, what isit called?
(30:44):
Like not Bob the Builder, butlike Brenda the Builder or
whatever.
Like I seen so much potentialin somebody that I was willing
to sacrifice my career, mymoney, myself to try and build
them up, only for them to stilltreat me like crap.
Like I have been there, donethat.
I have learned my lesson.
And if anything, I have learnedthat I need to take better
(31:06):
steps to protect myself becauseI have such a caring heart.
I am so loyal.
I am like, I am a ride or die.
I hate to say that, but I am aride or die.
And I wish if I could go backand tell my younger self
anything, it was either one, putprotections in place or two,
walk away.
Like learn to walk away.
(31:27):
You just need protection.
It's not mutually exclusive tohave love and protection.
You know how you are as aperson.
You know how it can be.
If you've been screwed overbefore, that's a lesson.
Just put protections in place.
You can't control the otherperson.
If they're gonna cheat, they'regonna cheat.
If they're gonna leave, they'regonna leave.
Let them.
But you protected your futureby getting a prenup, postnup,
(31:50):
cohabitation agreement, whateverit is, and that not only
protects your future, but if youhave kids, protects their
futures.
So that way, if that persondecides to leave because they
did whatever they chose to do,or you leave because they did
whatever they chose to do, youknow you can walk away without
all of the litigation.
You can walk away without allthe resentment, all the
(32:12):
spitefulness, them trying tocome at you financially, drown
you in attorney's fees, drownyou in through the litigation
process, like we're done.
Carlene (32:20):
Yeah.
Deveney (32:20):
So yeah, I just I just love to tell people it's not
mutually exclusive, exclusive.
You can be so head over heelswith someone, so in love, but
also love yourself enough toalso protect your future because
you deserve that.
Carlene (32:34):
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, like in in in your personalexperience, like you said like
walking away or set puttingboundaries in place.
So, what are some of the redflags that you ignored that
other, whoever's listening,should pay attention to?
Because I think it's very hardwhen you're in the situation
(32:55):
versus on the outside.
Deveney (32:57):
Um, I want to say that I'll talk about the red flags.
I think one of the biggest oneswould have been listening to my
mom.
She's like she just knows.
She's like, Dad, he is not theone, like absolutely not.
And I'm like, But mom, but Ilove him.
And like she just knew.
But that was one of them.
The second thing I can say isthe you hit you hit it on the no
(33:20):
when you said ambition.
Um, I dated someone who justdid not have the drive to do
better in life.
Whereas I did, like I did hisresumes, I sent out his resumes,
I helped him get these jobs,like I cooked for him, cleaned
for him, but I was also thebreadwinner.
I was also the one paying thebills, you know, like I did it
(33:43):
all only for him to go cheat onme with somebody else.
And then when I leave, keyed mycar.
Like it, like I just keyed mycar and gaslit me.
I I took him back for a littlebit and realized like that was
like the biggest mistake, andthen had to kick him out.
And it got to the point wherethen there was domestic violence
(34:04):
involved, to the point wherethe cops had to come, to the
point where the cops had to takehim to jail.
Like it, yeah, I've been there,I've I've done that.
I am loyal to a fault because Ireally do want to believe that
there's good in people.
And maybe there, maybe thereis, and I want to keep that,
right?
Like, not me about to like tearup, but I want to believe that
(34:26):
there's good in people.
And even like now as a divorceattorney, it's really hard
because it's making me veryjaded to love.
And that's partly why I lovethe prenup queen, because I'm
able to see these couples likeso head over heels for each for
each other.
And honestly, even still goingthrough the prenup process, like
watching them want to protectthe other person.
(34:46):
Like, well, babe, that's notgonna be fair for you.
Like that whole conversation isjust, I love it.
You know, and they're sittingthere having these, I just I
love it.
And so it's also why I want todo more work in the prenup realm
because I want to build thosetypes of relationships.
I want people to like just havevery solid foundations.
(35:07):
Yeah.
And because the divorce rate isso high right now.
If we can just lower it, that'dbe nice.
But I went off on a tangent.
But those are my lessonslearned.
Yeah.
Wow.
I've I've been with several menwho just didn't have the
ambition.
I've been with men who hadvery, I've only been with four
guys.
I've been with one person whohad two people who had no
ambition or not as much drive asI did.
(35:27):
I've been with another personwho had a different religious
belief.
And it wasn't necessarily harduntil like his in-laws got
involved, and then that becamehard.
So yeah, alignment is crucial.
Carlene (35:41):
Yeah.
No, it's sir, it certainly is.
And I think if you're I I I Iunderstand where you're coming
from, where you give with allyour heart and like you want to
help.
And like sometimes I'm like, Iremember like thinking about
what you said with therelationship.
I remember dating this guy.
It wasn't like long term, but Idated him and he was going
through so much.
Like he was dealing with theex, and then his and then his
(36:02):
father had passed away a whileback.
And I'm like, this guy's moreemotional than I am.
And I I can't, I can help you,but only so much.
And then I I realized like Ican't do this.
Like it's draining me too much.
So when it when it's it's thathard, then you have to like walk
away, like you said, right?
And but it's it's it's justhuman nature.
(36:24):
And obviously, um, you foundyour calling, which is
important, you know what I mean?
That you're helping people dothe the hard thing.
That's it's the hardest thing,you know, to think about those
things.
And so what do you do to helpwith the kind of work that you
do?
Because it it sounds like it'smentally taxing, not physically,
(36:45):
more like mentally taxing onyourself.
Deveney (36:48):
And yeah, it's mentally taxing and it's
emotionally taxing.
And so funny that you askedbecause we've actually decided
to take a turn at the firm.
So my firm is Wells GibsonFamily Law, and we've now
strayed away from doinglitigation.
So now, I mean, I still have mylitigation clients.
I'm not leaving them.
Like I took them on as clients.
(37:08):
When I say I'm loyal to afault, I'm I'm I'm in the
journey with them.
I'm in it with them.
Um, they trusted me and I'mgoing, I'm I'm a ride or die.
So I'll keep them, but we'rejust not taking on any more
litigation clients.
And now we've turned the firminto mediation.
So now we're focusing on doingprimarily mediation at the firm.
(37:28):
So that way we're not having todeal with as much of the
mentally and emotionally taxingpart of divorce, which I feel
like even that still gives me,it makes me sad because, and I'm
not, I'm not trying to toot myown horn or anything like that,
but like I'm a damn goodattorney.
And it's like I do enjoy beingin court and I do enjoy that
(37:50):
process, but it's just it, it'sjust too much stress having 40
clients constantly coming at mebecause the other person did
something, and then there's thekids involved.
And then it's like to them, toevery single person, it is an
emergency because it is theirfamily dynamics being altered.
It is their financial positionsbeing altered.
(38:11):
It's it's literally changingtheir lives.
And so just having 40 clientsat one time constantly needing
me has just become very taxing.
So I do think for mepersonally, I just need to take
a step back.
And I do want to, you know, nowchange my career into something
that's going to bring me a lotmore joy than what the firm was
(38:34):
previously doing.
Carlene (38:35):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's very powerful for sure.
Because I think you know what?
And in every line of work,there's always the the the hard
the hard part that you have todeal with.
And it's true, you're you'redealing with people's lives and
and like they want you to do allthese things.
Like, I mean, as a lawyer,right?
But there's only so much youcan do to help them.
(38:57):
So I think, yeah.
So I think, I think, I think toto ask the last question, what
what advice do you have forsomeone who is getting married?
Because I I maybe not gettingmarried, but maybe just thinking
of getting divorced.
Like, I think it's really hard.
It's I I think it's the hardestthing to do.
Like you see it in movies andTV shows, and you know, from
(39:20):
your own personal experiencewatching it unfold, what and as
a product, you're two questions.
So, as a child of parents whoare divorced, what advice do you
have for anyone else who'slistening and also someone who's
considering divorce?
Deveney (39:36):
Yeah, as a child of divorce, granted, that's also
partly why I wanted to be anattorney.
Yeah.
With the kids, I would say itis each parent's responsibility
to protect their kids.
And what that means can isobviously a lot of different
things.
But that's also so if you'rethinking about getting married,
(39:56):
if you know you want to havekids, putting up as much
protection as possible to try tokeep their lives as stable as
possible.
And I say that because when mymom divorced, we went from
living in a it was a two-incomehousehold.
Um, and it was verycomfortable.
It was a very comfortablehousehold to my mom now being
divorced and working three jobsand being the primary parent.
(40:19):
And my dad was more of like theweekend parent up up until he
eventually just decided not tobe active in my life at all.
So watching her work three jobswas a lot.
Her missing out on myextracurriculars because I ended
up playing volleyball all theway through college, but her not
being able to attend a lot ofthose things because she's so
(40:40):
busy working to try to make suremy life isn't altered.
But at the same time, the sadpart is her no longer being as
present has also altered my lifebecause she's worried about the
finances.
And I'm just worried about herpresence.
Because as a kid, I don't careabout the finances, right?
But as an adult, you do.
So I would say it's anotherreason to get a prenup.
(41:01):
You really just never knowwhat's gonna happen in life.
No one wants the worst casescenario to happen to them.
No one gets married thinkingthey're going to get divorced.
No, no one has that thought,okay?
Yet 40 to 50, 40 to 50 percentof first-time marriages end in
divorce.
And that statistic increaseswith every subsequent marriage
(41:23):
that you have.
So second-time marriages, up tolike 60% of them end in
divorce.
When you get married for thethird time, statistically
speaking, 73% of third-timemarriages end in divorce.
The divorce rate's very high,right?
You just never know.
So I would say just have theprotection.
Now, for the people who arethinking about getting divorced,
(41:44):
I will also say don't stay in amarriage for your kids.
We are watching, we seeeverything that happens.
So if you are a woman and youare being mistreated by a man,
however, or whatever.
Carlene (41:58):
Yeah.
Deveney (42:00):
The kids are watching.
So if you have a daughter,she's saying, is this how a man
is supposed to treat me?
Is is this is this what arelation, is this what a healthy
relationship looks like?
They were looking at you as arole model.
Then if you have a kid, oh, isthis how I'm supposed to talk?
I'm sorry, if you have a a son,oh, is that how I'm supposed to
talk to women?
Oh, is that how a man issupposed to lead in this
(42:21):
relationship?
Oh, or whatever the case maybe, your kids are watching.
So it is okay to leave becauseit it would be hard, yes, but it
is better for your kids to seetwo have happy parents than to
see miserable parents.
What else do I say?
Oh, for if getting a divorce ishard.
Same thing, talk to someone inthe finance sector, make sure
(42:43):
you're gonna get your financesin order.
Divorce is not cheap,especially if you're gonna hire
an attorney, it is not cheap atall.
And I promise you that moneycan be better served going
somewhere else.
But sometimes some cases justresult in litigation because you
just have two people who arevery resentful, very spiteful,
just want to battle it out whenthat money can go to college
(43:06):
funds, go to the kids, gotravel, go do literally anything
else.
So just to make sure you aregoing to be food and housing
secure and you have somefinances somewhere to be able to
get through the litigationprocess.
Carlene (43:21):
Yeah, that is some great advice.
And as someone who grew up in avery dysfunctional household
with parents who always argued,it does a number on you and you
start to think that that isnormal and it's not.
And I had to do a lot ofunlearning of that behavior.
What's important is that youare working with families as a
(43:45):
prenup queen.
So if anyone wants to work withyou or get advice, legal
advice, you know, how can theycontact you?
Deveney (43:53):
Of course.
So obviously I'm on the gram oreven TikTok.
Oh my god.
But I'm on the gram, Instagramat theprenup queen.
Same thing on TikTok.
If anyone's on TikTok, or youcan just email me, help H E L P
at theprenupqueen.com.
And our website, theprenupqueen.com.
Carlene (44:13):
Theprenupqueen.com.
I mean, it's it says it.
I love that.
You know what I mean?
Got some rights with likeKanye.
Yo, Kanye, can we oh my gosh.
Well, thank you so much, DevaniWells Gibson, for being such a
great guest.
And I just appreciate theadvice you've given.
(44:34):
It it's it makes you think alot about what your future could
be like.
I think planning ahead is soimportant.
It'll save you down the line,right?
And so thank you so much forbeing on the show.
I appreciate it.
Deveney (44:49):
Of course, thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Speaker (44:51):
Diva Tonight with Carlene will be back.
Send us a message on Instagramat Diva underscore tonight.
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