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September 8, 2021 34 min

Today I interview Rick Ornelas who is the author of 12 Hours in Heaven, which isn't exactly what you think especially by the title of the book.  He is also the founder of I Spark Change which is a movement and community to spark change for a better world.  In this interview Rick talks about his book, and how we can become better people, by changing ourselves, and if we change ourselves we can change the world.

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