May 28, 2026 • 62 mins
What does it take to write fifty books and bring them to life in your own voice? This week the conversation runs from a second-grade writing assignment that lit the spark, to the business mindset that turns a hobby into a career, to a candid look at where AI is dragging the voiceover world.
We get deep into the creative process, the difference between a pantser and a planner, narrating your own audiobooks, and why consent is becoming the biggest fight in entertainment. Along the way there are detours into Aliens, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Stephen King that any genre fan will love.
A wide-ranging, funny, and honest talk about creativity, craft, and protecting what makes art human.
Aaron Ryan's Website: authoraaronryan.com
Want to be a guest on Drink O'Clock? Send us a message on PodMatch here: podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/drinkoclock.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:37):
You know, I gotta tell you, man, um it it is it is
nice having a five-day weekend.
So uh at my job, I I hit 11years, so I earned an extra
week.
So I'm at I'm at the four, thecoveted four weeks vacation.
And I'm trying to figure outwhat to do with it all because
I'm not used to it.
So um like kind of just takingtwo days here and partnering it
(01:00):
up with with a holiday and andgetting that extra space, uh,
which is nice.
But uh anyway, I digress.
This is the Drink O'Clockpodcast.
I am your host, Rob Valencius,and I have the pleasure of
having a best-selling,award-winning author and
inspirational speaker, AaronRyan, with me today.
Man, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Good to be here.
May I take a drink for the drinko'clock, start with the country
time limited?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Cheers it up, man.
Like I said before we hitrecord, you get you get a
special version of me since I'mon vacay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:33):
Sounds good.
I'll be naturally curious whatthe other version is, but maybe
we can talk about that later.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
I I'll I'll tell you, so so when I first started
this podcast, and my listenersare probably like, ah, we've
heard this story.
Um, I would I would start theshow with taking shot a shot of
fireball.
And then I would towards themiddle of the show take another
shot of fireball.
While I'm drinking anold-fashioned, so um by the time
(02:01):
I'd get to the end, and this waswhen I didn't have a limit.
So I I feel like people don'thave an attention span, so I
stick to 45 minutes to an hour.
But this was back when I wouldgo two, two and a half hours
sometimes.
And uh Wow by the two hour mark,the I was funny to listen to.
We'll say that.
So I should I I try not to dothat.
(02:22):
Uh, plus two, I'll be 40 thisyear.
I've I feel like I should startto give my liver a little bit of
a break, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (02:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not, I'm not, I've neverbeen there really.
I mean, like the whole uhfireball, I've heard of it.
Have I ever had a fireball?
I don't know, unless I wasslipped something at a party,
but that would probablynecessitate me going to parties,
which I don't.
So probably I've never had one.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
I I feel that I feel that.
So look, man, let's let's startwith uh let's start with the
beginning here.
Talk to me about growing up.
Um, you know, I I always love tohear the uh the stories of of
the authors that I that Iinterview.
So hit me with your uh yourquick intro of of where did you
grow up and uh what what got youinto the creative side of
(03:08):
things?
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
Yeah, well, I think it was conceived in August of
2019.
No, I'm kidding.
That's probably going back alittle too far.
Um boy, we grew up in, it's notexactly Hick Town, but I grew up
in a very small town.
It was a little bit of a delloutside North Bend, Washington.
Okay.
And uh two brothers, one of thefraternal twin.
(03:31):
That means he doesn't look likeme, poor guy.
Um but uh grew up in a fairlystandard, I think, normal,
common, typical home.
Um I'm I've always beenright-brained.
So creativity just runs likeit's like you know, running
through the arteries and veins.
Uh always wanted to do thingscreative.
(03:52):
So I I had no idea um about thisuh like 50 years later, but my
mom sent me an article of me ina young author's club when I was
10 years old, completely forgotabout that.
And it was like, you know, thememories come rushing back.
I was like, oh my gosh.
But Mrs.
Walker in second grade gave mean assignment, everybody, an
assignment.
Um Mrs.
(04:12):
Walker, and uh to write a littlenovella.
And I did, everybody else did,and I just remember holding it
in my hands when I was just youknow all of seven years old.
And went, oh my gosh, you know,look at this.
Turn it around, look what Imade.
And so those are two realformative beginning stories that
just say, Man, I was supposed tobe an author from the very
beginning.
I love telling stories.
(04:33):
Every major vocation I've hadhas been about telling stories,
so I'm not surprised.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And I know I talked about it onmy my show before, but uh there
was a class I'll never forget,and I didn't think I was gonna
like it.
Um, I took a class, a creativewriting class, uh, when I was a
um I think I was a freshman inhigh school, and uh I didn't
think I was gonna like it.
And our teacher gave us thisassignment of I don't remember
(05:02):
the specifics, but it was kindof just like write a short story
or write write a story.
So I started uh and and we eachall got the old school vanilla
with lines, like uh she handedthose out to everybody, and
that's what you use to hand inwhen you were handing an
assignment.
It's not like today whereeveryone's got a you know a
freaking iPad, but um so I Iremember I got really into
(05:25):
writing the story, and it was ait was a uh I think it was a
hard or scary style story thathad to do with like a mummy.
And I'll never forget, I youknow, I turned it in for the
assignment, and uh I forget whathappened, but my teacher at one
point was like, Hey, are youever gonna finish that story?
I'd like to know the ending.
You know?
And I was like, huh.
(05:46):
I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm kind ofgood at this.
I've always been uh on thecreative side, like to drawing.
Um I have a very I have a verylarge imagination.
So uh, but I'll never forgetthat.
It's it's it's wild when you'redealing with kids.
Just just those little thingsthat you know, your teacher, my
teacher that you remember 20, 30years later after the fact, you
(06:08):
know.
SPEAKER_03 (06:09):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I I think that was one ofthe things that was like a
creative spark.
I got it, I got a creative sparkfor Mrs.
Walker for sure.
I got a creative spark fromJ.R.R.
Tolkien early on, that was forsure.
That is the one author thatreally inspired me to become an
author.
Um, I didn't get it from my mom,although she is the more
creative of the two parents.
Case to the point, I don'tremember how old I was, but I
(06:30):
asked her, uh, I love to drawwhen I was a kid.
And so, yeah, I would drawspaceships and robots and all
the typical, you know, young boyfare.
And I said, I said, Mom, youknow, should draw a spaceship.
I want to see what you can draw.
And so, like, I'm not kidding,she drew what turned out to be
ultimately a metal rhinoceros inspace.
And we joke about that to thisday that, you know, perhaps
(06:53):
you're a little bit moreleft-brained, mom.
Uh, because yeah, she it's thosethings aren't aerial, really.
I mean, not that I know of.
Um, and dad is more of dad,dad's right-brained, but kind of
goofy.
Um maybe I'm getting itbackwards.
Maybe mommy's a little bit moreleft-brained, and that would
explain the rhinoceros.
Dad is more like theright-brain, goofy kind of guy.
(07:15):
But the creative side, I think,came from more like external
sources than uh than you know,home brewed.
So to use an analogy from drinko'clock.
SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
I like it.
I like it.
Um now you've done a you wore aa number of hats in your life,
you know.
Um, paper boy, worship leader,rock artist, voiceover, author.
You know, tell me, is there youthink that there's maybe a line
that connects a lot of thosethings?
SPEAKER_03 (07:44):
No.
Um ultimately, no, not really.
I mean, uh the vocations thatI've had, yes.
The the um the positions thatI've had that have been, you
know, managerial or in some kindof authority over like you know,
uh, the ability to hire andfire, those have taught me a lot
of of um valuable uh tips andpractices about business acumen
(08:07):
for sure.
Paperboy, I mean, yes, you haveto manage different clients, you
have to manage tips if you getany.
Um you have to manage um gosh,you have to manage um all kinds
of different um routes?
Your routes.
Yeah, your routes and keepingpapers nice and dry and and all
(08:27):
that stuff.
But um But I think just later inlife, I I just learned so much
from different careers as far asum how to run a business.
And that is one of the thingsthat I really am very grateful
for and share with people, otherauthors, that if you really want
to be a successful author, lookat yourself more as a
businessman who just happens towrite books.
Um, it's a different mentality.
(08:49):
I'm a I'm a voiceover artist.
You can see the studio backthere, and I'm a businessman who
just happens to do voiceovers.
If I treat it like that, then myhobby is gonna go a lot farther
because I put it on a vehicle totake it somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's a nice, that's a nice little
office back there, man.
I like it.
I like it.
SPEAKER_03 (09:06):
Yeah, thanks.
Thank you.
Umagic.
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
Yeah, I mean, look, uh the one thing that I've
always thought about doing isthe voiceover stuff because I
just I think it's fun.
I actually had someone on myshow.
What the what's it called whereuh it's not a voiceover artist,
but they create the sounds forlike cartoons and movies and
shit like that.
SPEAKER_03 (09:25):
Um, like a it's it's like a post-production audio
engineer or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
Well, no, I mean it like like if you're watching
SpongeBob, they actually createlike like it if it sounds like
it's a cheese frying, it's notactually cheese frying.
It's like something, it's likean instrument they're using or
bet like oh man, that's gonnadrive me nuts what it's called.
It's a it's an interesting, it'slike a weird word that you would
like normal people wouldn'tknow.
But um and and uh I've had acouple voice actors on the show
(09:53):
as well, and they talk a lotabout you know um just being in
the craft and honing in on yourcharacters, and sometimes, you
know, as a business owner,right?
When you're you you're on yourown.
So when you're doing thevoiceover stuff, it's the same
concept, right?
You know, they give you a scriptand they kind of tell you what
you want it to be, but you're onyour own um to use that that
(10:16):
left brain of yours to becreative with the character.
And um, you know, do you feellike the voiceover stuff has
also kind of helped you um withyour writing as well in terms of
being creative and yeah, uhwell, they're both storytelling.
SPEAKER_03 (10:32):
I mean, voiceovers, you get to tell someone else's
story, be their storyteller.
Uh as a as an author, I get totell my own stories, and I
greatly prefer that.
But um, yeah, it's a it is acreative pursuit, and it they're
both are bringing a story tolife.
I think that with voiceovers,uh, man, so much of my work is
just done completely isolated.
I'm in a studio talking tomyself all day, uh, or I'm
(10:55):
sitting here talking tocharacters that don't exist all
day.
So it's a very paranoidschizophrenic career path for
both of them.
But but it's so enjoyablebecause I get to create either
way, less so with voiceoversbecause the script's already
locked.
Um, but it's just, you know,both of them teach you how to
bring something ex nahilo, likesomething out of nothing.
(11:17):
And you have to bring a scriptto life, their script.
You have to bring a story tolife, your story.
And it both take a little bit ofuh like acting and creative
finesse in either case.
They're both a blast to do.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Now, how long have you been writing?
Because you you have 44published books.
That's that's a pretty largenumber of books.
SPEAKER_03 (11:41):
It's actually 51 now.
Uh or 50, sorry.
Um I'm working on book 51.
Yeah, I I've I did three uh morechildren's book books and then
an omnibus that went with that,so there's four more.
And then I published uh a memoirof my wife and I uh uh kind of
our our dating story, howneither one of us really felt
worthy of love.
(12:01):
It's it's a it's a sweet story.
And so uh that one, and then Ijust published a horror novel
just this past Monday on mybirthday.
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
Oh, nice!
SPEAKER_03 (12:09):
So that visited me to thank you so much, put me up
at 50.
I started though back honestlywith with Mrs.
Walker in that second gradeassignment in 1981.
Um I took a sabbatical.
I mean, I tried all kinds ofcreative avenues for years and
years and years, uh, and cameback to it in the early 90s.
(12:31):
But um, yeah, I've been writingfor a while, just in various
forms, but I love writing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Yeah, so what's your now I I've interviewed a lot of
a lot of uh authors and I I loveto hear about the creative
process.
What's your process like?
You know, duh, you know, I'veI've I've dealt with people who
have to sit in a bar and talk topeople and be around people, and
then I've I've uh dealt withauthors that have to go.
Like uh I dealt with an author,she's like, all right, she she
(12:57):
told her husband, I'm gonna goaway.
She went to a hotel and shestayed in a hotel for like three
weeks to alone to write.
What's your style like whenyou're writing?
SPEAKER_03 (13:07):
Yeah, I've I don't think I have anything like that.
There's I love Lance Hendricksonfrom the movie Aliens.
Um I don't know if you can see apicture back there.
Aliens is my favorite movie ofall time.
But Lance Hendrickson has thisprocess he calls gathering.
So as he prepares for a role, hegoes around and he does this
thing called gathering, wherehe's like, you know, gathers,
for lack of a better word, allthese things he's gonna need to
(13:28):
assimilate into his into hischaracter.
Um that strikes me as one of asa different style of writing
from mine.
There's two notable,traditionally known styles.
One is the pantzer.
They fly by the seat of theirpants.
It's very organic storytelling.
SPEAKER_01 (13:43):
That's good.
I like that.
I like that one.
SPEAKER_03 (13:46):
That's totally me.
I'm a total pancer.
Uh and then there's a planner,and that's more like Lance
Hendricks than the gatheringstyle with bullet points and
flow charts and index cards andlots of research.
I like to just kind of tell astory and see where it goes.
Um, and there's a lot ofpanthers out there that actually
write really, really good books.
(14:07):
Because yeah, you can wind upsomewhere you didn't intend to
go, and you can always control Zyour way out of there.
Okay, that didn't work, youknow, and then go this way, oh,
sorry, you know, and thenredirect.
Um but I I I typically do itduring the nine to five.
I've got a 10 and six-year-oldson who need their daddy and
their daddy needs them.
So after work, I'm I'm a familyman.
(14:27):
So I'll write during the day.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Interesting.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, look, I I guess itmakes sense.
All right, so real quick beforelet's digress a little bit.
Favorite alien movie, and I'llI'll let you also include the
new stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (14:43):
Uh every day of the week, and twice on Sunday,
Sunday, Aliens.
James Cameron's 1986 Aliens.
Um shortly behind that, or Idon't know if I was shortly, but
the next one after that would beAlien, and then the next one
after that would be Alien uhthree.
Uh Alien Three really is anacquired taste.
I cannot stand the beginning.
(15:03):
It completely undoes the lastthird act of Aliens.
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:07):
Um and you don't really care about the
characters.
I don't like I I kind of likedbeing back in Alien Land with
Romulus, but there are so, somany cringe-worthy uh tips of
the hat to the other movies inthe series.
And it was like, man, do you gota leg to stand on of your own?
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
I just saw Romulus.
Resurrection.
I just saw Romulus uh maybe sixmonths ago.
Um it was good.
I mean, I I like the I I'm oneof those people, I I enjoy the
backstory of things.
Um, so like I know everyonehates, you know, Star Wars, the
original, uh not the originaltrilogy, but one, two, and
(15:50):
three.
Yes.
Um, however, I've talked aboutthis before as well.
I'm a Star Wars guy.
Star Wars is probably myall-time favorite, like sci-fi
world.
Um you gotta watch Star Warsfour, five, one, two, three,
six, and it makes the movies somuch better from a backstory
perspective.
(16:10):
You care a lot more when DarthVader dies, which spoiler here,
if you haven't watched StarWars, come on, man.
Wait, what?
Okay.
But that's the that's theappropriate way to watch the
movies.
SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
I I do not like one.
I think two is just extremetorture and punishment.
I cannot stand attack of theclones.
Uh, but I actually really enjoyRevenge of the Sith because I
love the Star Wars, uh, theDarth Vader um turn.
And he's turned, he's seduced tothe dark side by Emperor
Palpatine.
Yep.
And all of the different uhmissteps that he takes and the
(16:44):
temptations that he falls preyto uh via or vis-a-vis, I guess
would be the expression,Palpatine laying that those
traps for him.
SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:53):
Um I love that change.
It's very dark, and you can youcan never get the the little
kids out of your head, theyounglings, and him slaying
those poor little kids with hislightsaber at the end.
But that's that's Darth Vader.
That's true to form of who DarthVader was.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Yeah, I I I I think my fate one of my favorite
genres of writing is theanti-hero.
Because there's just somethingnot necessarily fun, but there's
just something about um watchinga good person or a good
character and seeing theirdownfall.
Because you watched him when hewas a a kid, a little kid, you
(17:33):
know, and then you watched himup until the point where he dons
the mask.
And there's something very humanbecause we can all decide to
make those wrong choices, right?
And become something that we'renot.
And um it's it's cool.
I I uh Dart so uh start in theStar Wars realm, there's a
trilogy that I don't think iscanon anymore, ever since Disney
(17:56):
bought it, but uh Darth Bain wasa trilogy series.
It was really, really good.
Um the the book Darth Plagueis,which I think is canon in Star
Wars, is really, really goodbecause you actually get a lot
of background on uh you know thePalpatine and The Senate and
(18:16):
Darth Maul and all the things hewas doing to try to stay alive
forever.
And it's it's a really, reallygood tie-in book if you're
watching the original soon.
Have you read that?
SPEAKER_03 (18:27):
I have not, but it sounds good.
It does sound good.
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
It's it's really good.
Uh I was trying to think ifthere's any others in this in
this series, but uh everything'snot canon anymore ever since
Disney bought it, which you knowthey release.
I I just saw a thing, and Idon't know if you follow uh Star
Wars news, but uh they're goingto re-release Star Wars movies,
and they're just gonna pretendlike the the three that they
(18:51):
just released never existed.
It's not part of the universeanymore.
SPEAKER_03 (18:58):
Oh, seven, eight, and nine?
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:01):
Interesting.
I'm not a fan of uh of eight.
Um and nine was okay.
Uh no, I have to just say fulldisclosure, and I and I thought
seven was was pretty good,although there was seriously um
like a just a lack ofcreativity.
Oh, okay, big planet killing orbin the in the sky, huh?
We've never seen that before.
Yeah.
Gotta navigate down a trench.
Oh, haven't seen that before.
(19:21):
And so there's a lot ofrepetition there.
But my favorite character in theentire Star Wars canon is um uh
is Palpatine.
And so to see him come back,it's a stretch, sure.
But I mean, you know, you throwthe guy down a shaft on the
Death Star, and you don'texactly see him die.
(19:42):
There's room for Palpatine tocome back, especially since he
is um, since he's recountingthat story to Anakin uh with you
know in that space opera um ofDarth Plagueis the wives.
And, you know, he could keep theones that he loved from dying.
So for him to bring himself backwasn't uh it didn't strain
credulity really too much, butit was also like, is this is
(20:07):
this is this the way to go?
I don't know if this is the wayto go.
All right, whatever, I'll justtake it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
See, I I like I was I was with you.
I was okay with seven becausethey were set, it's like the
setup movie, you know.
I was okay.
I was cool with that.
I mean, it wasn't the best, butit wasn't the worst.
I and and the wifey sits behindthe green screen, and I know
she's probably gonna make aface.
When we went to see eight, whichI have to drag her to these,
this isn't necessarily herthing.
I made her watch all theoriginals, thankfully.
(20:33):
I love her to death.
Uh, I made her watch all theoriginals in my order, and uh,
she liked parts of it, right?
She liked the Jawas and youknow, like the cute Ewoks, and
our we have two dogs, and theythey're basically they look like
Ewoks, they're BrusselsGriffins.
So um, but uh when I saw Iwanted to never be a Star Wars
(20:54):
fan again.
I was so irritated.
Like, that's how mad I was.
I'm saying I'm walking at thetheater and I'm like, they just
they just got rid of everythingthat they they did.
I don't understand.
And then um we saw nine, and uhyeah, I was in the same boat as
you was like, it's all right.
Um I I see it was such a big ofa like such a bit of a stretch,
but apparently, I guess themerchandise and things and all
(21:16):
that from 7, 8, and 9, eventhough it was a billion dollars,
it wasn't what it could havebeen or should have been.
So they're gonna, I think, justcompletely um I think because
the head Disney lady is gone andand she did a lot of random, she
made a lot of just iffydecisions in the Star Wars
universe.
I think they're gonna just tryto reset, which I'm I'm cool
(21:37):
with.
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
Yeah, Kathleen Kennedy, I think is who it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So as I'm watching Star Wars,uh, it was a it was a foregone
conclusion that Han uh was gonnadie.
I knew that was gonna happen,and he's been petitioning for
that all the way back to theoriginal series.
But um what what I love, what Ido love is, and particularly in
three, or I guess it would benine, um, is You know, here come
(22:01):
all of these ships out of lightspeed, and they're gonna take on
the Emperor's new fleet.
And there's all of these, youknow, planet killing, Death
Star, uh, Star Destroyers beenlike, okay, whatever.
That's just that's too muchfirepower for me.
But all of a sudden, here comesone ship into view, and you
instantly know who that pilotis.
Not not Lando.
I mean, you know Lando, he'srecognizable.
Yeah.
But I saw it and I went, Wedgeand Tilly's.
(22:23):
I said, that's Wedge.
And I just, it's those littlepayoffs that feel so good that
bring you back to the originalfull circle.
But I have to say, too, much asI love Star Wars, rings.
So Tolkien is who inspired me tobecome an author.
This is not the one ring I justwant to clarify.
See, I'm still here.
Still here.
Still here.
But I I love uh Lord of theRings.
(22:45):
And I on the same uh the sametone.
It's good to be back in the StarWars universe when you watch 7,
8, and 9 or or both, you know,Mandalorian or whatever.
Yeah.
Rings of Power, kind of good tobe back in the Lord of the Rings
universe, but also like, yeah,so many gross violations of
canon there.
So it's unforgivable.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Yeah, I so I haven't watched the movies in a long
time.
It's probably been 20-ish yearssince I've watched the the
movies.
It's about when they came out.
Yeah.
Um, and I never read the books,which which I probably should.
I'm I'm a big I'm a big timeaudiobooker, so I I think I at
some point want to maybe getback into it.
(23:27):
It's it's tough with books likeGame of Thrones and uh Lord of
the Rings to listen to becausethey have there's so many names
that are similar that it'stough.
Some like you might be listeningto it and they'll say a
character like, oh, and thenthey go to another character,
like, oh, I thought that's whothat was.
And then it's different uhbecause you're listening to it
and not what like reading it onpaper.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Um but it also depends on who's reading the
audiobook, too, because someaudiobooks, I will actually
enjoy an audiobook more uh basedon some of the guys that that
read it, um and just how theyread it compared to some of the
monotone people, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
Right.
Well, as uh as a voice actor andan author, I get that crossover
and I and I enjoy it.
So I hate doing audiobooks.
Um, they take way too long andthey pay way too little.
The market is oversaturated withnarrators, and now when you
cast, I made this mistake.
I've I've forced an author.
I cast a um I I put I put a jobposting up on ACX for my recent
(24:31):
horror novel, which is a femaleprotagonist.
I'm not gonna try to narratethat.
I don't sound anything like afemale.
So I cast it, and the person Icast turns out to be an AI
narrator.
And I'm like, you know, youraudition sounded human, it
sounded good, that's why I castyou.
I feel betrayed.
And now I gotta back out thisand cancel everything and then
start again.
Um, but I love narrating my own.
(24:52):
When they're mine and it's themale protagonist, I had a
14-year-old uh uh boy as a as amain protagonist of a previous
book, wasn't gonna do that oneeither.
So I cast a friend from church,uh family friend from church to
do that one.
But I I love narrating them.
And when I tell people that I'man author and they go, eh, not
much of a reader.
Do you got them on audio?
(25:12):
Yes, I do.
Wait, are you the narrator?
Did you did you narrate them?
I feel like a jack lit deer, youknow, like, uh yeah, is that
okay?
And they love when I say yes,that it's me narrating them
because the author knows how thestory is supposed to sound.
The author knows how thecharacters are supposed to
sound.
So it's it's cool doing my own.
(25:34):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:35):
I so uh a lot of the authors, now some of the people
I've interviewed have had likeit's it was more of a a book
about their traumatic, likefucked up life.
So um I for them it was kind oflike a uh you know uh healing
thing, being, you know, theauthor, but also being the
person that was reading it.
Um, yeah, and I said to them,you know, because I I always
(25:59):
like to buy uh the books and andlisten to stuff that uh for
people that were on the show.
And I I said to the to the oneauthor, and I said to her, I'm
like, listen, based on yourstory and all the things that
you went through in your life, Imean, she just had some really
crazy things happen.
I'm like, I would not havewanted anyone else on the planet
to read that.
(26:19):
You had to read it because youcould feel like when someone's
reading something and they careabout it, and I'm sure that's
the same way for you, right?
Like you care about the book,you care about you created these
characters.
So there's just a certain levelof ownership and almost like
they're part of you.
And uh, I feel like there'ssomething to that.
So it's it's awesome that you doread your own stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
I I'd be so remiss if if I cast it and someone did
a terrible job.
Um, I mean, you talk about 50books, there's a lot to screw up
in that.
And um uh here's somethingthat'll probably throw some
people for a loop.
But I I have a lot, many of mycharacters, my beloved
characters from my dissonancealien invasion saga, I have
(27:02):
their fictional birthdays on myreal life calendar.
Um, because the line betweenfiction and reality gets gets
blurred.
These people are real, uh or youdesperately want them to be.
So if I outsourced this book tosomeone and they did a bad job
and didn't bring it to life andI had to pay them and keep that,
(27:22):
it'd be such a bummer becausethey just they they missed it.
Uh and you don't want them tomiss it.
I'm the only person who canhopefully nail it.
Now, it isn't to say that ifyou're an author, by all means
narrate your own books.
Because if you suck at atspeaking and you're like, you
know, huge lisp or you slureverything, or you just talk
like this the entire time andyou're totally a deadpan.
(27:44):
You know, you're not gonna bringanything to life that way.
You have to be dynamic and riseand fall and crespendos and be
crespendos.
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Yeah, and you gotta have like if there's multiple
characters, I feel like yougotta have some sort of
difference in them.
Um and I really appreciate thethe really good audiobook
readers that just they just havea way with creating voices that
make sense to the characters andthey stick with it and they're
(28:10):
good with it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:12):
Yeah.
Well, that's where that's whereI have a one-up.
I got a leg up on thecompetition because I am a voice
actor and I can do several ofaccents.
I've I've been cast over andover for British.
Um, I've done Caribbean, I'vedone uh Deep South, you know,
Texas, I've done Australian, andI can do them well.
And so I often now I'm findingthat I'm I'm intentionally this
(28:35):
is so sneaky, but I'mintentionally writing in
characters in my books in thewriting process that have a
Scottish accent.
I could, I can do that too.
You know, I want to write theminto my books so that I'll get
to voice that accent in theaudiobook.
It's totally like conniving andsneaky, but it's like, you know,
not everyone can do that.
And that gives a lot ofdistinction between the voices.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
Get you practice too, right?
You know, like you can say, hey,look, I you need a Scottish guy.
I'm your guy.
You know, listen to this.
Here's here's two minutes of me,you know, being Scottish.
It's my book, too, if you wantto buy it.
SPEAKER_03 (29:12):
You'd have to say, I'm your gay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
I'm your gay.
So I'm looking at your uhdissonance series on Audible.
Uh looks like you have so youhave um which one's this?
Okay, so you have the entirebook series together, which is
that's cool.
I like that.
And then you have book zerothrough five.
(29:35):
So you have a, I guess is zerolike a prequel?
SPEAKER_03 (29:39):
So there's actually six books.
There's four that are basicallythe main story, one, two, three,
four.
Okay.
And then there are two prequels.
Uh, volume zero is the firstprequel, and then volume up is
the second prequel.
Um and it's a silly story.
I won't, I won't, you know,belabor that why I had to write
two different prequels.
Um but yeah, there's there's twoprequels to the story.
(30:01):
It was totally intended to justbe a trilogy, but then it was
such a great story.
It kept telling itself, itdemanded the two prequels in a
sequel.
So it goes zero, up, one, two,three, four.
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
And then you have Relentless.
SPEAKER_03 (30:14):
That's number four.
That's volume four.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Okay.
All right.
Well, I'm definitely going.
So uh is the this one here, it'sthe entire series together.
SPEAKER_03 (30:24):
Yeah, all six books.
It's 51 hours of material.
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:29):
Well, here you go.
Boom.
SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
And there's several different narrators.
Just bought the whole series,baby.
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
There you go.
SPEAKER_03 (30:35):
Oh, thank you so much.
Always like.
Thank you.
Well, it's if you're driving orif you're doing a lot of work
with uh around the home orremodeling or whatever, it's
it's people say they love thatlength because it's 51 hours of
content.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
So I drive about two hours a day.
It's a you know, hour there,hour back.
Might be you know, fastersometimes, sometimes it could be
longer.
Depends on what I'm hitting.
So um I really like hitting theaudiobooks.
I just um I I decided to goStephen King because I haven't
listened to a Stephen King bookuh in my adult life.
(31:14):
So I'm reading uh are you aStephen King fan at all?
SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
Yeah, I love misery.
I'm I'm actually trying to, if Ican, base a little bit of my
next novel on a kind of a miserytwist, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
Okay, all right.
I'm listening to uh fairy taleright now because I thought that
was it was had a really coolpremise that was very un Stephen
King-ish.
SPEAKER_03 (31:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, misery, misery is like, asan author, that terrifies me.
So I mean, like, why wouldn't Iwrite about that?
Because that's it's gonna beclose to home.
It's gonna hit close to home.
So my fingers will fly more thanthey would on a you know
something with math in it orsomething.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Yeah, I I so you're gonna laugh at me.
Uh the wifey's uh she grew up onhorror movies, and I had never
seen Misery.
And uh we watched it together.
When was that?
Maybe two years ago?
Uh yeah, maybe it was like threeor four years ago.
We watched Misery together.
Uh, and it was such a goodmovie, really good.
Um, but hey, I'll say this.
(32:17):
She never saw Ace Mentora upuntil like three or four years
ago either.
So uh I I we kind of throw thesemovies at each other.
I'm like, I'm like, and shelikes silly stuff like that.
I'm like, you've never seen AceMentora.
Now, anytime it's on, we watchAce Mentora.
We've seen it like a hundredtimes, you know.
Uh it's it's just it's aclassic.
SPEAKER_03 (32:35):
And Dumb and Dumber.
I don't know if you like Dumband Dumber as much, but that is,
in my opinion, that and likeGalaxy Quest are movies that
just do not fail you in terms ofcomedy all the way through.
They're just so good all the waythrough.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
Well, that's the other thing.
Dumb and Dumber is basically oneof her all-time favorite movies,
and she quotes it all the time.
And I'm like, how have you neverseen Ace Vandora?
But Dumb and Dumber is like yourall-time favorite movie.
You gotta watch it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
Tell your wife, Samsonite was way off.
SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
He said, Samsonite, I was way off.
She's laughing.
Um, but yeah, she quotes it allthe time.
It's just it's fun.
But um, so let me ask you thiswhy we're why we're on the
books, right?
Um are you are do you get timeto read some some stuff
yourself, or are you always likeon the go writing your own
(33:26):
stuff?
SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
Uh both.
I mean, like it's typically whatI'll read is like when the kids
are are having a bath night, youknow, and I'm I'm just making
sure they're okay up in the inthe bedroom.
But uh honestly, one of my bookshas been adapted for the screen,
it's being pitched to streamingnetworks.
And if they um if they exerciseuh an option to uh the right to
(33:48):
option that script or to buy it,then quickly things are gonna be
in motion and it's it's gonna beon kind of like a you're you're
carried downstream with acurrent.
And one of the things that myscreenwriters slash marketers
said is you you have to knowyour story inside and out.
So uh I am finishing up bigsurprise, the Lord of the Rings
again.
I'm reading it again.
As soon as I'm done with that,it's gonna be right back into
(34:09):
the whole saga of dissonance allover again.
Because if they option it orthey buy it, they're gonna start
writing scripts for you know thewhole series.
And I need to know it betterthan they do.
They're gonna go, hey Aaron, youknow, what's how many, how many
gun towers are on the top ofevery uh every blockade?
You know, I have to know thatthat's eight, you know?
(34:30):
So just the little bitty thingsI need to know.
So I do read, but right now it'sthe things that I've just read
over and over again.
And believe it or not, rehashingthat, recycling those favorite
reads, even though it'srepetitive, uh, it's still it's
still very energizing.
And it's still you still getfresh ideas uh and and you know
(34:53):
motivation for your your yournewest work.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Yeah, one of the my all-time favorite sci-fi series
right now that I've that I'vegotten into is uh and is called
Red Rising.
Have you heard of it?
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:08):
Um is it in a movie?
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
It's not a movie, but I know that they've pitched
it and I and I feel like umthat's where I saw it.
Yeah, it's it's not it's not uhdone yet.
The the author is Pierce Brown.
SPEAKER_03 (35:22):
Um I've totally seen the ads and the reels for it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
If it if I could tell you to read any book if you
have time.
Uh it's a uh right now I thinkit's a it's a six book series.
I think they're done uh bookfive.
Book six is supposed to be outsometime this year, hopefully.
Um one of the best series I'veever read in my life.
SPEAKER_03 (35:45):
It just I've heard that.
Good reviews too.
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
He just has a way with um it's it's like Game of
Thrones needs space, but I'malso I really like like uh that
Greek mythology and they use alot of that in in it it's it's
so good.
I I recommend it to everybody.
So uh and I'm sure it's gonna bea um a major, I know it's gonna
(36:08):
be a major motion picture.
I don't know when uh becausethey've been talking about it
for a while, but such a goodseries.
And um it's it's it resonatesreally well because it's a cast.
The the way it the book is isset up is it's a cast.
Uh you basically are assigned acolor and golds are the the
best.
Like, you know, they're they'resix, seven feet tall, blonde
(36:31):
hair, blue eyes, they'reperfect, they're athletes.
There's you're not gonna seeanyone that's out of shape.
They're like the perfect human.
And then uh everyone else has acolor and they're basically
working for them, you know.
And uh the premise of the bookis uh a red who's from Mars,
he's a minor, was totally finewith his life.
And you find this out basicallyin the first chapter, but his
(36:53):
they hang his wife.
And uh it basically turns himinto uh someone that decides
where he's he wants to bringdown the the hierarchy and it
starts, you know.
So uh he gets on a in a freedomgroup and uh they want to turn
him into a gold and they want tobring it down from the you know
inside.
(37:13):
And he there's like an institutewhere they they once you are you
know uh old enough, they put youin this institute and it's
basically cutthroat and it'sjust so good, dude.
It's so good.
I could talk about it for hours.
SPEAKER_03 (37:24):
So uh No, he's got super high ratings, so yeah, I'd
definitely be interested.
And I and I'd seen it, I think,before, but I wasn't in the I
wasn't in a reading frame ofmind just yet.
SPEAKER_00 (37:33):
Yeah, and listen, if you want to draw inspiration, I
don't know.
Uh I'm gonna read your book, soI'll let you know uh my my
thoughts.
But he's just he's very there'ssome there's some stuff in that
book that'll that'll that'llmess you up a little bit, you
know, like a beloved charactermight die and then you're like,
what the hell?
And you have to go back, youknow, yeah, I I'll I'll like go
(37:54):
back five minutes and re-listento it, like just to kind of get
it right because that's the typeof stuff that I mean as a
reader, I like where if I haveto, if someone dies or something
crazy happens and I have to goback five minutes to put myself
into like um the zone, I guess.
Uh that those are the type ofbooks I just it really draws me
in.
And then I have to keeplistening.
SPEAKER_03 (38:16):
There, um, yeah, I've definitely killed off my
share.
I'm more murderer than author,uh and I hate that.
But it's like uh it's it's itcan never be cavalier, it can
never be um uh a throwaway, youknow, especially if it's a
beloved character.
It always has to be a catalystfor something.
And so uh I learned that veryearly on.
It completely disassembled me,and you you'll hear it.
(38:38):
When a character, when I killedoff a character in volume one
reality, that's me bawling.
That's me bawling during theedit, that's me bawling during
the uh the audiobook recording.
So you'll hear that.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
Yeah, you you gotta get attached to these guys, man.
It's part you're basicallykilling off a part of yourself,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (38:55):
Yeah, it's it's your baby.
You created it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:57):
Now, you know, one of the dissonance books was, you
know, that's the what you kindof brought up.
Um, you know, did did theypursue you, you know, or or what
walk me through kind of whathappened there?
Because I know the streamingplatforms are always looking for
something new.
That's gotta be pretty excitingfor you, man.
SPEAKER_03 (39:16):
So much.
I'm I'm so I'm tickled.
I just I can't wait to seewhat'll happen with this because
um it is every indie author'sdream to have their book adapted
for the screen and to see it onscreen.
That's the goal.
Um, the goal of of course, letme clarify, isn't actually to
see it on screen, but it but tohit the the highest uh amount of
(39:38):
of readers um and people whowill enjoy your books possible.
Um so they pursued me, and youknow, as an author, I enjoy the
rich, exquisite privilege ofreceiving 30 to 40 scams, spam
emails every single day.
Um it's so frustrating becausewhat you wouldn't give to
(40:00):
receive one email a week, oneweek, saying, I I love your
stuff, you know, I loved yourbook.
No, we don't get those.
It's it's all crickets, and theonly thing we get is people who
just want to steal our money.
It's so frustrating.
Um, so I get this email fromthis guy or from his assistant
in uh March of 2024.
Um and I'm like, you know,naturally a skeptic.
(40:23):
Uh, but I vetted him, and he iswho he says he is.
He's uh a Hollywood accreditedfellow.
He's on IMDb.
His stuff is uh wasaward-winning um screenplay that
won a contest.
Get this.
Put on by Gail Ann Hurd, who isthe ex-wife of James Cameron.
I know who's that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
Gail Ann must be three degrees away from James
Cameron.
I'm like, ah, so I checked himout, I vetted him, and I said,
you know, I'm gonna be so sad ifI don't do this.
I have to do this.
Um so I did.
He's very collaborative.
It's true to the book, and it'sthe pilot from Volume One
Reality, and he's pitched it to,I don't know, uh 15 to 20
(41:06):
different studios, and no onehas said no yet, except for one,
I believe, only because theywere re um reorganizing.
Uh whether it was like the uhthe um gosh, Sky Dance and
Netflix and Paramount and WarnerBrothers and that whole
business.
Yeah, but it's the dust hassettled and now they're looking
at it again.
So I'm so excited and sohopeful.
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
That's awesome, man.
Um listen, let's, let's, let's,um, let's ask you for a tip
here.
Um, because I do have a lot ofyoung people that do listen to
the show.
For an indie author listening tothis podcast, um, can you bestow
some some knowledge on them,maybe a realistic path?
Like, um, you know, what aresome of the things that people
(41:49):
get wrong um when they're tryingto do something like this?
SPEAKER_03 (41:53):
Oh my gosh, there's so much.
So the first thing, there's somuch I like to do.
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
I've failed so many times, but let me tell you, this
is the way to go about it,right?
SPEAKER_03 (42:02):
This is the way.
Um all you do is you justcontinue failing forward.
I mean, really, that's that'sthe story.
But um uh I so I I I'm an indieauthor by choice.
There's so many trade-offs thatyou have to make when you want
to when you sign with aself-pubbed or self-publisher or
indie publisher.
Excuse me.
(42:22):
I'm so saying this backwards.
There's so many trade-offs thatyou make when you sign with a
traditional publisher.
As an indie publisher, man, Iget much quicker, higher, uh,
quicker time to market.
I can command higher royalties.
I get to retain all rights, Iget to retain all creative
control.
I get to choose my own branding,my own editors, my own
marketing.
SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
So big, so big being able to have the creative
control.
So big.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
It's huge.
To surrender that is a I mean,for me, I'm very impatient.
I want to get my books out thereto market.
51 I'm working on right now, ifI was traditionally published,
maybe less than half of thosewould be out by now.
So maybe.
I mean, probably maybe less thana third.
I don't even know.
Um, the most important thingthough is you have to decide is
(43:06):
if you are gonna pursue umtraditional or self-publishing,
if you're going to pursue usingAI to help support uh your
creative process, because it'san incendiary polarizing topic.
I use um very occasionally I'lluse assistive AI for idea
generation for a book only.
(43:26):
I do not believe in usinggenerative AI to create any part
of my book.
Uh I'll get ideas and then I'llgo, all right, cool.
And then I'll I'll start writingmy book, and it's entirely from
here and here, entirely.
Um the industry's reallysaturated, and the offerings are
really diluted now by AIcontent.
(43:47):
It's just watered down thequality of the offerings.
So choose wisely there.
Um and Oscar Wilde said,Everyone, uh be yourself,
everyone else has already taken.
Man, don't try.
Try to be the next Tolkien,Clancy, Crichton, Grantram,
Collins, you know, uh, SA Corey.
(44:08):
Just be you.
Everyone else has already taken.
Um, find your own unique style,your own unique voice that you
can bring to the market becausethey don't need more of the
same.
Be you.
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Yeah, I think that's so important in today's world.
Um, you know, it's it's the samereason, you know, I've been
doing this podcast now for uhlike three and a half years.
Actually, yeah, we're pushingfour.
We're pushing four.
Actually, it'll August, I thinkit'll be four.
Um Wow, I the time just is likeI I don't even remember where I
am anymore half the time.
(44:40):
Um but I tell people my firstdude, my first like three years,
it was, you know, I had peoplethat would download, but it was
like, you know, I I I would I'ma numbers guy um and I'm an up
entrepreneur, so uh I haven'tearned a cent doing this.
It's just I I enjoy it.
Um, but you know, the firstthree years, sometimes it gets
(45:00):
very deflating.
You know, there'd be some timeswhere I would have such a good
guest and I'm like, this isgonna be great.
And I'd get two people thatlisten.
You know, and I'm like, fuck,man, like what more do I need to
do?
And uh it's funny, I was I wastelling the wifey this before we
got on um, you know, probably aday or two ago.
I've had more people listen tomy podcast this year, just just
(45:24):
2026 than all three yearscombined.
So it's it's yeah, it's it's uhI you know, I and I I'd imagine
as a creative, as someone that'swriting, it's the same concept,
right?
It's like don't give up.
Like just keep doing it.
If you enjoy it and you canafford to do it, you know, uh,
you know, and uh just continueto do it because you never know
(45:48):
who's gonna listen and then telltheir friend or who's gonna read
your book and tell their friend,and then before you know it, it
might be getting picked up bystreaming platforms.
SPEAKER_03 (45:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, um I I love this phrasethat I quote it all the time.
I probably overquote it, but Iwas I was given a phrase by uh a
former casting agent slash um uhentrepreneur, and she said, uh,
someone's endorsement of you orlack thereof has very little to
do with your trajectory.
(46:18):
I love that phrase because youknow, as authors, we want people
to buy our books, we want goodreviews, we want to be asked to
speak, we want to be asked toshare, we want to be invited
places, uh, we want our books tobe uh, we want to hear from
people that say they like books,whether or not it's it's comes
in a review that they post.
And um, those aren't necessarilygonna come uh quickly, if at
(46:42):
all.
So um, and those areendorsements.
Your trajectory, if you're anauthor and this is what you want
to do, it's it's your trajectoryis to continue writing books
regardless of the littlebackpats and ego strokes that
you might get along the way.
Uh if your trajectory is, or ifyour calling is to be an author,
your trajectory is forward,independent of all of that.
(47:04):
It really is.
SPEAKER_00 (47:05):
And I think that's with everything, right?
I mean, um, you're gonna docertain things and it might not
work out, but if you just stickwith it, or you know, um
sometimes you might need topivot a little bit, right?
Um, you know, when I start firststarted doing this podcast, it
was just to interview like gamevideo game streamers, uh,
because that's what I was doingat the time.
(47:26):
And I'm like, all right, howmany people am I am I gonna be
able to get to do thisregularly?
And I'm like, let's just let'sjust change the format a little
bit.
It's the same concept, just alittle bit.
And um, I think sometimes yougotta do that along the way.
Um now you mentioned AI, andthat's something I definitely
wanna wanted to talk about uhbefore we got out today.
And um, I'm a proponent of AI, Ilove AI, I'm a tech guy.
(47:49):
Um, you know, I use it in a lotof the things that I do, it does
help, but you gotta run into itto the point where it's it's
gotta be nauseating, you know,from not just you know people
using it to create books, butalso in your voiceover work.
SPEAKER_03 (48:05):
Uh it's it's dramatically negatively impacted
both careers in a massivedegree.
I can't even begin to articulatein the amount of time that we
have today.
Um, so as a voiceover actor,that's that's where I first
started to experience thenegative effects of AI.
Um, beloved, cherishedrelationships that I've had
forever with uh producers aregone.
(48:28):
Um they've been so the producershave even been either been
replaced by AI themselves.
We don't need you anymore.
We can seriously just do thisthrough C dance, or they've been
instructed to no longer usehuman voice talent because they
can use 11 Labs or Respeech orSpeech Ocean or whatever.
And they're all crappy software,they're not directable, it's
not, it doesn't have the humannuance, the human idiosyncrasy.
(48:50):
It is purely about dollars andyou know, getting it done
quickly.
So rather than pay a human voicetalent$3,300, whatever, for a
national TV commercial for ayear, which is the market rate,
we can buy speech ocean for$49for a lifetime license, you
know, and then plug in whateverwe want.
(49:12):
So it makes good fiscal sense,sure.
Um, but the you know, largelythe amount of time that you're
gonna spend, the amount of moneyyou're gonna save is gonna be
offset by the huge amount oftime you're gonna have to spend
to calibrate that voice, totrain that voice, to tweak every
little thing, to get it to yourliking, only to have to circle
back and go, you know what,screw this.
(49:33):
Let's just hire a human voicetalent again.
Uh and then an authoring, Ialready addressed that.
That just the quality ofofferings in the authoring
industry are being watered downand diluted by AI flop and crap.
SPEAKER_00 (49:47):
Yeah, I I look, uh AI is great, I think, at
assisting us.
And I like what you said,because I it's the same concept
for me.
It's like if I have an idea,I'll use AI to flush it out,
right?
Or maybe I kind of know what Iwant, but I don't know what that
is, and I'll just say, hey, youknow, hit me with 20 things, you
(50:11):
know, and then and then once I Iget that, oh then I can kind of
go with the flow with it.
Um if you're using it to doeverything creatively, it is
slob, and you're gonna get alot, and I think we're at a
point where it's like, oh mygod, you know, and the companies
are saving money and they'rethey're pumping stuff out at
(50:32):
speed, you know, I think you'llhave a pushback at some point
where it's like, okay, you know,AI can only do so much.
Now, who knows?
Maybe we'll have AI chatbotsthat you you could never tell
that they're you know, not humanand you know, in the in five to
ten years.
But I still think from a humanperspective, you just have
(50:57):
there's something I don't evenknow how to um put it in words.
There's just something about thefeels that you can almost tell,
you know, like that person is,you know, using AI and doesn't
give a shit.
SPEAKER_03 (51:11):
Right.
Yeah, it's very frustrating.
I mean, ultimately you can't umas a as a voice actor, I can
hear the difference.
I can tell when it's a syntheticvoice.
Yeah.
A lot of people are untrained inthat way, but I'm dealing with
audio all day long.
So I know full well what issupposed to sound human and what
doesn't.
And so uh, but a lot of thepeople aren't uh equipped in
(51:33):
that regard, or they don'treally care.
There's a nonchalance about it.
And um, it's not something thatyou you can train people on.
But there's also just the ethicsof it.
And you've got cases, clear-cutand dry cases, of like, you
know, Scarlett Johansson was inthe movie Her and they took her
voice and they made an AI, uh anLLM model and an AI voice of
(51:53):
Scarlett Johansson's voice.
She's rightfully suing her,suing those people.
Um, Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise inthat sea dance rooftop fight,
you know, their likenesses wereused.
Neither one of them were inthat, neither one of them
consented to that.
I have to wonder what Ian Holm,who played Ash in the original
Alien, the Android, uh, he's nowRook, which is a look-alike
(52:14):
android in Romulus.
Yep.
And it's his likeness, it's verycringeworthy.
His estate gave them permissionto do that.
But I have to wonder, what wouldIan Holm say?
Did he stipulate something inhis will?
It's just, it's it's so dick,you know, and why can't you just
come up with something new?
Uh that was another cringeworthy callback.
James Earl Jones licensed hisvoice post-mortem to uh, you
(52:39):
probably know this.
He sold the rights to his voiceum posthumously.
Well, he did it before he death,but posthumously now they can
use James Earl Jones' voice inany future uh Darth Vader
spin-off stuff because he gavethat consent.
Yeah.
And so that I'm okay with, butgosh, the consent thing is a
(53:00):
huge issue.
SPEAKER_00 (53:01):
Yeah.
And I mean, I will say that BradPitt like fighting video and
stuff was wild.
It's like absolutely wild.
But yeah, I mean, like, where doyou draw the line?
Right?
Where is that line in the sandwhere you know, yeah, you can be
creative, but but is it reallycreative just typing two
sentences in an AI?
(53:21):
I I I don't think so.
I don't think that's beingcreative.
Um, but I this is the world welive in, right?
So it's like, you know, where doyou see, you know, the
voiceover?
Well, let's talk the voiceover.
Where do you see that going inthe future?
Do you think eventually it'sgonna get to a point where it's
just gonna kind of go away, ordo you think it's going to uh
(53:42):
have some pushback with people?
SPEAKER_03 (53:46):
Um I think honestly, my gut tells me it'll go away.
I mean, people have said overand over that it won't go away.
And you've got people who are,you know, the top recognized
figureheads in the voiceoverindustry at the top of a very
narrow kind of what I like tocall an Illuminati.
They control all the speakingcircuits and they control all
(54:07):
the um, not all of them, butthey control a wide variety of
people who are recognized andendorsed and uh and promoted to
share and speak and teach andgive.
I wanted to be part of that.
I was an outsider looking in, Iwas a fifth wheel and anomaly,
and they wouldn't let me in.
I kind of got mad after a while,spoke truth to power, and left.
(54:27):
Um but you know, I'm so gladbecause it resulted in a boot
bounty of creativity.
But those people at the very topare saying, oh, don't worry,
don't worry about AI.
Um, yes, worry about AI.
Uh Siri is getting better andbetter.
Uh I can't say her name becauseshe's right there, but A L E X A
(54:48):
is getting better and better andbetter.
And Bixby and all of these otheriterations of Google Voice and
all that stuff are getting sobetter.
Now you've got visuals.
Um, what I love is somebody likeSean Aston, who played Sam Wise
Gamsby in Lord of the Rings.
He is the president of theSAGAFTRA union, and he and the
union are fighting hard tomaintain rights so that our
(55:12):
likeness cannot be taken withoutour consent.
SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
Yeah, because you know these big studios do not
give a shit.
They're gonna do everything theycan to save money.
Because at the end of the day,what what's the the general
saying?
It's you have to in order tobreak even, you have to gross
double the amount of the whatyou spent, right?
SPEAKER_03 (55:33):
Yeah, whatever it is.
Whatever, whatever that is.
Imagine they give a prompt to toChat GPT or Groc or whatever,
and then within a few hoursthey've got a full movie and
they just run with it.
Yeah, why wouldn't you do that?
SPEAKER_00 (55:45):
Yeah, and I mean, look, from a CEO per slash owner
perspective, that makes sense,right?
But I think those people are outof touch with a lot of the stuff
from down here.
Um and I think at some point, uhand I'm a tech guy.
I think AI is uh it's here tostay, it's not going anywhere,
but I think at some pointthere'll be um kind of a
(56:07):
reckoning.
Now, the voice actor stuff, Idon't know, man.
Uh it's it's it's getting betterand better.
AI, unfortunately, is justlearning at a such a rapid pace.
unknown (56:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (56:18):
There's gotta be something I think.
Yeah, there's gotta be somethingdone, I think, from the union's
perspective to continue to fightfor you guys because that's
about all you can do.
SPEAKER_03 (56:30):
Uh that's what I think is Sean Aston is doing
precisely that.
Um I went to uh in February, Iwent to um a fan expo in
Portland and saw all fourhobbits, got a picture with
them, got a uh a verycommemorative Lord of the Rings
edition, a Kinkstake editionthat I produced, signed by all
four of them.
That's awesome.
And uh and I and I talked toSean uh very briefly just at a
(56:52):
signature session and said, Um,I said, hey, I'm a I'm a
SAGAFTRA registered voicetalent, and thank you for all
you're doing.
And he goes, Great, hey, that'swonderful.
You know, how's it going?
And I said, AI.
He said, I know, I know, we'reworking hard.
You know, and I watch hisvideos, and they are.
Um I think we're the first,we're one of the first chips to
fall because it takes so muchmore processing to develop uh
(57:15):
believable, convincing videomaterial.
Audio, though, was was that wasuh that was streamlined you know
long before they started workingon on uh voice stuff.
Um video stuff rather.
But like I said, it's not Skynetyet, but yes, I think we have
people fighting for us, but it'sjust that yes, there does need
(57:35):
to be a reckoning.
Yes, there needs to belegislation on this Wild West,
unregulated um uh phenomenonthat is growing exponentially.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (57:45):
I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
And I I I would uh there's a acouple industries for sure that
I I'm happy that I didn't pursueum you know in the tech world,
and that is coding.
And uh you know, I'm surethere's a lot of other things
that are that are gonna lose abattle.
So uh and you know what?
Shout out to um, you know, uhRip Tom Kane.
(58:07):
I know we're talking aboutvoice, voice uh acting, and uh
he was the uh voice of the poweruh Powderpuff Girls doctor and
dad, and he was like a voiceactor and he did a ton of stuff.
And I I uh a lot of charactersthat uh were part of that
Cartoon Network series when Iwas a kid, so I wanted to make
sure I made a a shout out to TomKane.
(58:28):
Um that's awesome.
Yeah, uh listen, man, we'rewe're hitting that hour mark,
but I want you to um, you know,kind of hit us with your with
your plug.
Tell us what you got going on.
Uh, do you have coming anythingcoming up in the near future we
can make sure we're payingattention to?
Really exciting about the stufffor your for your book, man.
I I really uh really hope thatthat comes to fruition for you.
SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
Yeah, thank you.
Me too.
Well, that one is going theproducer route.
I've got uh four other booksadapted for the screen, and
they're going the film festivalroute.
Nice.
Um, a few of them have been, youknow, they've they've won
entrance into film festivals,they've garnered awards, which
is wonderful.
So that's good.
I'm working on book 51, which isanother uh horror paranormal
(59:08):
novel.
It's called The Darkness Within,and I'm going for a modern day
take on Jekyll and Hyde.
Um mystery of all things.
That's cool.
Um so that's what I'm workingon.
But people can go toauthorarinrion.com and find out
about um uh everything.
It's got all the social links,it's got all the uh uh the links
(59:29):
to the sub sites for thedistance, the different series.
And then they can also go toauthorarinryong.com, which is a
Facebook group where they canjoin.
There's no scammers or spammersallowed.
If you're an author, you'regonna find tips.
There's discount codes,giveaways, upcoming real
appearances and releases, news.
Um, and that's authorarinriangroup.com.
(59:52):
So there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (59:53):
Awesome, man.
Yeah, yeah.
You had a great website.
I was on there and uh doingdoing my research on what I
could.
So uh, and hey, look, buy thisguy's book, man.
You could get the entiredissonance series on Audible.
Uh, you know, I'm a member ofAudible, and uh, you know, so I
I used a credit, but it was onlylike 15 bucks, man.
You can get 51 hours of contentfor 15 bucks.
(01:00:15):
What do you do with your life,man?
You know, you I know, I know.
I'm gonna be hearing your voicefor the next like two months as
I'm driving.
So uh that's that's pretty cool.
Um, anyway, this is the Drink aClock Podcast.
You can listen to this podcastanywhere you listen to podcasts.
Uh, and on top of that, you canfind me on social media drink
o'clock pod as well.
(01:00:36):
So um look, Eric, it was it wasa pleasure having you on, man.
Thank you so much.
You're a busy guy.
And uh, let's do this againafter uh dissonance gets on the
big screen, man.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:46):
Will do.
Thanks so much for having me,Rob.
Awesome, man.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:49):
Have a great night.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:50):
Peaceo.
You know, I gotta tell you, man, um it it is it is
nice having a five-day weekend.
So uh at my job, I I hit 11years, so I earned an extra
week.
So I'm at I'm at the four, thecoveted four weeks vacation.
And I'm trying to figure outwhat to do with it all because
I'm not used to it.
So um like kind of just takingtwo days here and partnering it
(01:00):
up with with a holiday and andgetting that extra space, uh,
which is nice.
But uh anyway, I digress.
This is the Drink O'Clockpodcast.
I am your host, Rob Valencius,and I have the pleasure of
having a best-selling,award-winning author and
inspirational speaker, AaronRyan, with me today.
Man, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03 (01:21):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Good to be here.
May I take a drink for the drinko'clock, start with the country
time limited?
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Cheers it up, man.
Like I said before we hitrecord, you get you get a
special version of me since I'mon vacay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:33):
Sounds good.
I'll be naturally curious whatthe other version is, but maybe
we can talk about that later.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
I I'll I'll tell you, so so when I first started
this podcast, and my listenersare probably like, ah, we've
heard this story.
Um, I would I would start theshow with taking shot a shot of
fireball.
And then I would towards themiddle of the show take another
shot of fireball.
While I'm drinking anold-fashioned, so um by the time
(02:01):
I'd get to the end, and this waswhen I didn't have a limit.
So I I feel like people don'thave an attention span, so I
stick to 45 minutes to an hour.
But this was back when I wouldgo two, two and a half hours
sometimes.
And uh Wow by the two hour mark,the I was funny to listen to.
We'll say that.
So I should I I try not to dothat.
(02:22):
Uh, plus two, I'll be 40 thisyear.
I've I feel like I should startto give my liver a little bit of
a break, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (02:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not, I'm not, I've neverbeen there really.
I mean, like the whole uhfireball, I've heard of it.
Have I ever had a fireball?
I don't know, unless I wasslipped something at a party,
but that would probablynecessitate me going to parties,
which I don't.
So probably I've never had one.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
I I feel that I feel that.
So look, man, let's let's startwith uh let's start with the
beginning here.
Talk to me about growing up.
Um, you know, I I always love tohear the uh the stories of of
the authors that I that Iinterview.
So hit me with your uh yourquick intro of of where did you
grow up and uh what what got youinto the creative side of
(03:08):
things?
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
Yeah, well, I think it was conceived in August of
2019.
No, I'm kidding.
That's probably going back alittle too far.
Um boy, we grew up in, it's notexactly Hick Town, but I grew up
in a very small town.
It was a little bit of a delloutside North Bend, Washington.
Okay.
And uh two brothers, one of thefraternal twin.
(03:31):
That means he doesn't look likeme, poor guy.
Um but uh grew up in a fairlystandard, I think, normal,
common, typical home.
Um I'm I've always beenright-brained.
So creativity just runs likeit's like you know, running
through the arteries and veins.
Uh always wanted to do thingscreative.
(03:52):
So I I had no idea um about thisuh like 50 years later, but my
mom sent me an article of me ina young author's club when I was
10 years old, completely forgotabout that.
And it was like, you know, thememories come rushing back.
I was like, oh my gosh.
But Mrs.
Walker in second grade gave mean assignment, everybody, an
assignment.
Um Mrs.
(04:12):
Walker, and uh to write a littlenovella.
And I did, everybody else did,and I just remember holding it
in my hands when I was just youknow all of seven years old.
And went, oh my gosh, you know,look at this.
Turn it around, look what Imade.
And so those are two realformative beginning stories that
just say, Man, I was supposed tobe an author from the very
beginning.
I love telling stories.
(04:33):
Every major vocation I've hadhas been about telling stories,
so I'm not surprised.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And I know I talked about it onmy my show before, but uh there
was a class I'll never forget,and I didn't think I was gonna
like it.
Um, I took a class, a creativewriting class, uh, when I was a
um I think I was a freshman inhigh school, and uh I didn't
think I was gonna like it.
And our teacher gave us thisassignment of I don't remember
(05:02):
the specifics, but it was kindof just like write a short story
or write write a story.
So I started uh and and we eachall got the old school vanilla
with lines, like uh she handedthose out to everybody, and
that's what you use to hand inwhen you were handing an
assignment.
It's not like today whereeveryone's got a you know a
freaking iPad, but um so I Iremember I got really into
(05:25):
writing the story, and it was ait was a uh I think it was a
hard or scary style story thathad to do with like a mummy.
And I'll never forget, I youknow, I turned it in for the
assignment, and uh I forget whathappened, but my teacher at one
point was like, Hey, are youever gonna finish that story?
I'd like to know the ending.
You know?
And I was like, huh.
(05:46):
I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm kind ofgood at this.
I've always been uh on thecreative side, like to drawing.
Um I have a very I have a verylarge imagination.
So uh, but I'll never forgetthat.
It's it's it's wild when you'redealing with kids.
Just just those little thingsthat you know, your teacher, my
teacher that you remember 20, 30years later after the fact, you
(06:08):
know.
SPEAKER_03 (06:09):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I I think that was one ofthe things that was like a
creative spark.
I got it, I got a creative sparkfor Mrs.
Walker for sure.
I got a creative spark fromJ.R.R.
Tolkien early on, that was forsure.
That is the one author thatreally inspired me to become an
author.
Um, I didn't get it from my mom,although she is the more
creative of the two parents.
Case to the point, I don'tremember how old I was, but I
(06:30):
asked her, uh, I love to drawwhen I was a kid.
And so, yeah, I would drawspaceships and robots and all
the typical, you know, young boyfare.
And I said, I said, Mom, youknow, should draw a spaceship.
I want to see what you can draw.
And so, like, I'm not kidding,she drew what turned out to be
ultimately a metal rhinoceros inspace.
And we joke about that to thisday that, you know, perhaps
(06:53):
you're a little bit moreleft-brained, mom.
Uh, because yeah, she it's thosethings aren't aerial, really.
I mean, not that I know of.
Um, and dad is more of dad,dad's right-brained, but kind of
goofy.
Um maybe I'm getting itbackwards.
Maybe mommy's a little bit moreleft-brained, and that would
explain the rhinoceros.
Dad is more like theright-brain, goofy kind of guy.
(07:15):
But the creative side, I think,came from more like external
sources than uh than you know,home brewed.
So to use an analogy from drinko'clock.
SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
I like it.
I like it.
Um now you've done a you wore aa number of hats in your life,
you know.
Um, paper boy, worship leader,rock artist, voiceover, author.
You know, tell me, is there youthink that there's maybe a line
that connects a lot of thosethings?
SPEAKER_03 (07:44):
No.
Um ultimately, no, not really.
I mean, uh the vocations thatI've had, yes.
The the um the positions thatI've had that have been, you
know, managerial or in some kindof authority over like you know,
uh, the ability to hire andfire, those have taught me a lot
of of um valuable uh tips andpractices about business acumen
(08:07):
for sure.
Paperboy, I mean, yes, you haveto manage different clients, you
have to manage tips if you getany.
Um you have to manage um gosh,you have to manage um all kinds
of different um routes?
Your routes.
Yeah, your routes and keepingpapers nice and dry and and all
(08:27):
that stuff.
But um But I think just later inlife, I I just learned so much
from different careers as far asum how to run a business.
And that is one of the thingsthat I really am very grateful
for and share with people, otherauthors, that if you really want
to be a successful author, lookat yourself more as a
businessman who just happens towrite books.
Um, it's a different mentality.
(08:49):
I'm a I'm a voiceover artist.
You can see the studio backthere, and I'm a businessman who
just happens to do voiceovers.
If I treat it like that, then myhobby is gonna go a lot farther
because I put it on a vehicle totake it somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's a nice, that's a nice little
office back there, man.
I like it.
I like it.
SPEAKER_03 (09:06):
Yeah, thanks.
Thank you.
Umagic.
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
Yeah, I mean, look, uh the one thing that I've
always thought about doing isthe voiceover stuff because I
just I think it's fun.
I actually had someone on myshow.
What the what's it called whereuh it's not a voiceover artist,
but they create the sounds forlike cartoons and movies and
shit like that.
SPEAKER_03 (09:25):
Um, like a it's it's like a post-production audio
engineer or something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
Well, no, I mean it like like if you're watching
SpongeBob, they actually createlike like it if it sounds like
it's a cheese frying, it's notactually cheese frying.
It's like something, it's likean instrument they're using or
bet like oh man, that's gonnadrive me nuts what it's called.
It's a it's an interesting, it'slike a weird word that you would
like normal people wouldn'tknow.
But um and and uh I've had acouple voice actors on the show
(09:53):
as well, and they talk a lotabout you know um just being in
the craft and honing in on yourcharacters, and sometimes, you
know, as a business owner,right?
When you're you you're on yourown.
So when you're doing thevoiceover stuff, it's the same
concept, right?
You know, they give you a scriptand they kind of tell you what
you want it to be, but you're onyour own um to use that that
(10:16):
left brain of yours to becreative with the character.
And um, you know, do you feellike the voiceover stuff has
also kind of helped you um withyour writing as well in terms of
being creative and yeah, uhwell, they're both storytelling.
SPEAKER_03 (10:32):
I mean, voiceovers, you get to tell someone else's
story, be their storyteller.
Uh as a as an author, I get totell my own stories, and I
greatly prefer that.
But um, yeah, it's a it is acreative pursuit, and it they're
both are bringing a story tolife.
I think that with voiceovers,uh, man, so much of my work is
just done completely isolated.
I'm in a studio talking tomyself all day, uh, or I'm
(10:55):
sitting here talking tocharacters that don't exist all
day.
So it's a very paranoidschizophrenic career path for
both of them.
But but it's so enjoyablebecause I get to create either
way, less so with voiceoversbecause the script's already
locked.
Um, but it's just, you know,both of them teach you how to
bring something ex nahilo, likesomething out of nothing.
(11:17):
And you have to bring a scriptto life, their script.
You have to bring a story tolife, your story.
And it both take a little bit ofuh like acting and creative
finesse in either case.
They're both a blast to do.
SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Now, how long have you been writing?
Because you you have 44published books.
That's that's a pretty largenumber of books.
SPEAKER_03 (11:41):
It's actually 51 now.
Uh or 50, sorry.
Um I'm working on book 51.
Yeah, I I've I did three uh morechildren's book books and then
an omnibus that went with that,so there's four more.
And then I published uh a memoirof my wife and I uh uh kind of
our our dating story, howneither one of us really felt
worthy of love.
(12:01):
It's it's a it's a sweet story.
And so uh that one, and then Ijust published a horror novel
just this past Monday on mybirthday.
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
Oh, nice!
SPEAKER_03 (12:09):
So that visited me to thank you so much, put me up
at 50.
I started though back honestlywith with Mrs.
Walker in that second gradeassignment in 1981.
Um I took a sabbatical.
I mean, I tried all kinds ofcreative avenues for years and
years and years, uh, and cameback to it in the early 90s.
(12:31):
But um, yeah, I've been writingfor a while, just in various
forms, but I love writing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Yeah, so what's your now I I've interviewed a lot of
a lot of uh authors and I I loveto hear about the creative
process.
What's your process like?
You know, duh, you know, I'veI've I've dealt with people who
have to sit in a bar and talk topeople and be around people, and
then I've I've uh dealt withauthors that have to go.
Like uh I dealt with an author,she's like, all right, she she
(12:57):
told her husband, I'm gonna goaway.
She went to a hotel and shestayed in a hotel for like three
weeks to alone to write.
What's your style like whenyou're writing?
SPEAKER_03 (13:07):
Yeah, I've I don't think I have anything like that.
There's I love Lance Hendricksonfrom the movie Aliens.
Um I don't know if you can see apicture back there.
Aliens is my favorite movie ofall time.
But Lance Hendrickson has thisprocess he calls gathering.
So as he prepares for a role, hegoes around and he does this
thing called gathering, wherehe's like, you know, gathers,
for lack of a better word, allthese things he's gonna need to
(13:28):
assimilate into his into hischaracter.
Um that strikes me as one of asa different style of writing
from mine.
There's two notable,traditionally known styles.
One is the pantzer.
They fly by the seat of theirpants.
It's very organic storytelling.
SPEAKER_01 (13:43):
That's good.
I like that.
I like that one.
SPEAKER_03 (13:46):
That's totally me.
I'm a total pancer.
Uh and then there's a planner,and that's more like Lance
Hendricks than the gatheringstyle with bullet points and
flow charts and index cards andlots of research.
I like to just kind of tell astory and see where it goes.
Um, and there's a lot ofpanthers out there that actually
write really, really good books.
(14:07):
Because yeah, you can wind upsomewhere you didn't intend to
go, and you can always control Zyour way out of there.
Okay, that didn't work, youknow, and then go this way, oh,
sorry, you know, and thenredirect.
Um but I I I typically do itduring the nine to five.
I've got a 10 and six-year-oldson who need their daddy and
their daddy needs them.
So after work, I'm I'm a familyman.
(14:27):
So I'll write during the day.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
Interesting.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, look, I I guess itmakes sense.
All right, so real quick beforelet's digress a little bit.
Favorite alien movie, and I'llI'll let you also include the
new stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (14:43):
Uh every day of the week, and twice on Sunday,
Sunday, Aliens.
James Cameron's 1986 Aliens.
Um shortly behind that, or Idon't know if I was shortly, but
the next one after that would beAlien, and then the next one
after that would be Alien uhthree.
Uh Alien Three really is anacquired taste.
I cannot stand the beginning.
(15:03):
It completely undoes the lastthird act of Aliens.
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:07):
Um and you don't really care about the
characters.
I don't like I I kind of likedbeing back in Alien Land with
Romulus, but there are so, somany cringe-worthy uh tips of
the hat to the other movies inthe series.
And it was like, man, do you gota leg to stand on of your own?
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
I just saw Romulus.
Resurrection.
I just saw Romulus uh maybe sixmonths ago.
Um it was good.
I mean, I I like the I I'm oneof those people, I I enjoy the
backstory of things.
Um, so like I know everyonehates, you know, Star Wars, the
original, uh not the originaltrilogy, but one, two, and
(15:50):
three.
Yes.
Um, however, I've talked aboutthis before as well.
I'm a Star Wars guy.
Star Wars is probably myall-time favorite, like sci-fi
world.
Um you gotta watch Star Warsfour, five, one, two, three,
six, and it makes the movies somuch better from a backstory
perspective.
(16:10):
You care a lot more when DarthVader dies, which spoiler here,
if you haven't watched StarWars, come on, man.
Wait, what?
Okay.
But that's the that's theappropriate way to watch the
movies.
SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
I I do not like one.
I think two is just extremetorture and punishment.
I cannot stand attack of theclones.
Uh, but I actually really enjoyRevenge of the Sith because I
love the Star Wars, uh, theDarth Vader um turn.
And he's turned, he's seduced tothe dark side by Emperor
Palpatine.
Yep.
And all of the different uhmissteps that he takes and the
(16:44):
temptations that he falls preyto uh via or vis-a-vis, I guess
would be the expression,Palpatine laying that those
traps for him.
SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:53):
Um I love that change.
It's very dark, and you can youcan never get the the little
kids out of your head, theyounglings, and him slaying
those poor little kids with hislightsaber at the end.
But that's that's Darth Vader.
That's true to form of who DarthVader was.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Yeah, I I I I think my fate one of my favorite
genres of writing is theanti-hero.
Because there's just somethingnot necessarily fun, but there's
just something about um watchinga good person or a good
character and seeing theirdownfall.
Because you watched him when hewas a a kid, a little kid, you
(17:33):
know, and then you watched himup until the point where he dons
the mask.
And there's something very humanbecause we can all decide to
make those wrong choices, right?
And become something that we'renot.
And um it's it's cool.
I I uh Dart so uh start in theStar Wars realm, there's a
trilogy that I don't think iscanon anymore, ever since Disney
(17:56):
bought it, but uh Darth Bain wasa trilogy series.
It was really, really good.
Um the the book Darth Plagueis,which I think is canon in Star
Wars, is really, really goodbecause you actually get a lot
of background on uh you know thePalpatine and The Senate and
(18:16):
Darth Maul and all the things hewas doing to try to stay alive
forever.
And it's it's a really, reallygood tie-in book if you're
watching the original soon.
Have you read that?
SPEAKER_03 (18:27):
I have not, but it sounds good.
It does sound good.
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
It's it's really good.
Uh I was trying to think ifthere's any others in this in
this series, but uh everything'snot canon anymore ever since
Disney bought it, which you knowthey release.
I I just saw a thing, and Idon't know if you follow uh Star
Wars news, but uh they're goingto re-release Star Wars movies,
and they're just gonna pretendlike the the three that they
(18:51):
just released never existed.
It's not part of the universeanymore.
SPEAKER_03 (18:58):
Oh, seven, eight, and nine?
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (19:01):
Interesting.
I'm not a fan of uh of eight.
Um and nine was okay.
Uh no, I have to just say fulldisclosure, and I and I thought
seven was was pretty good,although there was seriously um
like a just a lack ofcreativity.
Oh, okay, big planet killing orbin the in the sky, huh?
We've never seen that before.
Yeah.
Gotta navigate down a trench.
Oh, haven't seen that before.
(19:21):
And so there's a lot ofrepetition there.
But my favorite character in theentire Star Wars canon is um uh
is Palpatine.
And so to see him come back,it's a stretch, sure.
But I mean, you know, you throwthe guy down a shaft on the
Death Star, and you don'texactly see him die.
(19:42):
There's room for Palpatine tocome back, especially since he
is um, since he's recountingthat story to Anakin uh with you
know in that space opera um ofDarth Plagueis the wives.
And, you know, he could keep theones that he loved from dying.
So for him to bring himself backwasn't uh it didn't strain
credulity really too much, butit was also like, is this is
(20:07):
this is this the way to go?
I don't know if this is the wayto go.
All right, whatever, I'll justtake it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
See, I I like I was I was with you.
I was okay with seven becausethey were set, it's like the
setup movie, you know.
I was okay.
I was cool with that.
I mean, it wasn't the best, butit wasn't the worst.
I and and the wifey sits behindthe green screen, and I know
she's probably gonna make aface.
When we went to see eight, whichI have to drag her to these,
this isn't necessarily herthing.
I made her watch all theoriginals, thankfully.
(20:33):
I love her to death.
Uh, I made her watch all theoriginals in my order, and uh,
she liked parts of it, right?
She liked the Jawas and youknow, like the cute Ewoks, and
our we have two dogs, and theythey're basically they look like
Ewoks, they're BrusselsGriffins.
So um, but uh when I saw Iwanted to never be a Star Wars
(20:54):
fan again.
I was so irritated.
Like, that's how mad I was.
I'm saying I'm walking at thetheater and I'm like, they just
they just got rid of everythingthat they they did.
I don't understand.
And then um we saw nine, and uhyeah, I was in the same boat as
you was like, it's all right.
Um I I see it was such a big ofa like such a bit of a stretch,
but apparently, I guess themerchandise and things and all
(21:16):
that from 7, 8, and 9, eventhough it was a billion dollars,
it wasn't what it could havebeen or should have been.
So they're gonna, I think, justcompletely um I think because
the head Disney lady is gone andand she did a lot of random, she
made a lot of just iffydecisions in the Star Wars
universe.
I think they're gonna just tryto reset, which I'm I'm cool
(21:37):
with.
SPEAKER_03 (21:38):
Yeah, Kathleen Kennedy, I think is who it was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So as I'm watching Star Wars,uh, it was a it was a foregone
conclusion that Han uh was gonnadie.
I knew that was gonna happen,and he's been petitioning for
that all the way back to theoriginal series.
But um what what I love, what Ido love is, and particularly in
three, or I guess it would benine, um, is You know, here come
(22:01):
all of these ships out of lightspeed, and they're gonna take on
the Emperor's new fleet.
And there's all of these, youknow, planet killing, Death
Star, uh, Star Destroyers beenlike, okay, whatever.
That's just that's too muchfirepower for me.
But all of a sudden, here comesone ship into view, and you
instantly know who that pilotis.
Not not Lando.
I mean, you know Lando, he'srecognizable.
Yeah.
But I saw it and I went, Wedgeand Tilly's.
(22:23):
I said, that's Wedge.
And I just, it's those littlepayoffs that feel so good that
bring you back to the originalfull circle.
But I have to say, too, much asI love Star Wars, rings.
So Tolkien is who inspired me tobecome an author.
This is not the one ring I justwant to clarify.
See, I'm still here.
Still here.
Still here.
But I I love uh Lord of theRings.
(22:45):
And I on the same uh the sametone.
It's good to be back in the StarWars universe when you watch 7,
8, and 9 or or both, you know,Mandalorian or whatever.
Yeah.
Rings of Power, kind of good tobe back in the Lord of the Rings
universe, but also like, yeah,so many gross violations of
canon there.
So it's unforgivable.
SPEAKER_00 (23:06):
Yeah, I so I haven't watched the movies in a long
time.
It's probably been 20-ish yearssince I've watched the the
movies.
It's about when they came out.
Yeah.
Um, and I never read the books,which which I probably should.
I'm I'm a big I'm a big timeaudiobooker, so I I think I at
some point want to maybe getback into it.
(23:27):
It's it's tough with books likeGame of Thrones and uh Lord of
the Rings to listen to becausethey have there's so many names
that are similar that it'stough.
Some like you might be listeningto it and they'll say a
character like, oh, and thenthey go to another character,
like, oh, I thought that's whothat was.
And then it's different uhbecause you're listening to it
and not what like reading it onpaper.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Um but it also depends on who's reading the
audiobook, too, because someaudiobooks, I will actually
enjoy an audiobook more uh basedon some of the guys that that
read it, um and just how theyread it compared to some of the
monotone people, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
Right.
Well, as uh as a voice actor andan author, I get that crossover
and I and I enjoy it.
So I hate doing audiobooks.
Um, they take way too long andthey pay way too little.
The market is oversaturated withnarrators, and now when you
cast, I made this mistake.
I've I've forced an author.
I cast a um I I put I put a jobposting up on ACX for my recent
(24:31):
horror novel, which is a femaleprotagonist.
I'm not gonna try to narratethat.
I don't sound anything like afemale.
So I cast it, and the person Icast turns out to be an AI
narrator.
And I'm like, you know, youraudition sounded human, it
sounded good, that's why I castyou.
I feel betrayed.
And now I gotta back out thisand cancel everything and then
start again.
Um, but I love narrating my own.
(24:52):
When they're mine and it's themale protagonist, I had a
14-year-old uh uh boy as a as amain protagonist of a previous
book, wasn't gonna do that oneeither.
So I cast a friend from church,uh family friend from church to
do that one.
But I I love narrating them.
And when I tell people that I'man author and they go, eh, not
much of a reader.
Do you got them on audio?
(25:12):
Yes, I do.
Wait, are you the narrator?
Did you did you narrate them?
I feel like a jack lit deer, youknow, like, uh yeah, is that
okay?
And they love when I say yes,that it's me narrating them
because the author knows how thestory is supposed to sound.
The author knows how thecharacters are supposed to
sound.
So it's it's cool doing my own.
(25:34):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:35):
I so uh a lot of the authors, now some of the people
I've interviewed have had likeit's it was more of a a book
about their traumatic, likefucked up life.
So um I for them it was kind oflike a uh you know uh healing
thing, being, you know, theauthor, but also being the
person that was reading it.
Um, yeah, and I said to them,you know, because I I always
(25:59):
like to buy uh the books and andlisten to stuff that uh for
people that were on the show.
And I I said to the to the oneauthor, and I said to her, I'm
like, listen, based on yourstory and all the things that
you went through in your life, Imean, she just had some really
crazy things happen.
I'm like, I would not havewanted anyone else on the planet
to read that.
(26:19):
You had to read it because youcould feel like when someone's
reading something and they careabout it, and I'm sure that's
the same way for you, right?
Like you care about the book,you care about you created these
characters.
So there's just a certain levelof ownership and almost like
they're part of you.
And uh, I feel like there'ssomething to that.
So it's it's awesome that you doread your own stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
I I'd be so remiss if if I cast it and someone did
a terrible job.
Um, I mean, you talk about 50books, there's a lot to screw up
in that.
And um uh here's somethingthat'll probably throw some
people for a loop.
But I I have a lot, many of mycharacters, my beloved
characters from my dissonancealien invasion saga, I have
(27:02):
their fictional birthdays on myreal life calendar.
Um, because the line betweenfiction and reality gets gets
blurred.
These people are real, uh or youdesperately want them to be.
So if I outsourced this book tosomeone and they did a bad job
and didn't bring it to life andI had to pay them and keep that,
(27:22):
it'd be such a bummer becausethey just they they missed it.
Uh and you don't want them tomiss it.
I'm the only person who canhopefully nail it.
Now, it isn't to say that ifyou're an author, by all means
narrate your own books.
Because if you suck at atspeaking and you're like, you
know, huge lisp or you slureverything, or you just talk
like this the entire time andyou're totally a deadpan.
(27:44):
You know, you're not gonna bringanything to life that way.
You have to be dynamic and riseand fall and crespendos and be
crespendos.
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Yeah, and you gotta have like if there's multiple
characters, I feel like yougotta have some sort of
difference in them.
Um and I really appreciate thethe really good audiobook
readers that just they just havea way with creating voices that
make sense to the characters andthey stick with it and they're
(28:10):
good with it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:12):
Yeah.
Well, that's where that's whereI have a one-up.
I got a leg up on thecompetition because I am a voice
actor and I can do several ofaccents.
I've I've been cast over andover for British.
Um, I've done Caribbean, I'vedone uh Deep South, you know,
Texas, I've done Australian, andI can do them well.
And so I often now I'm findingthat I'm I'm intentionally this
(28:35):
is so sneaky, but I'mintentionally writing in
characters in my books in thewriting process that have a
Scottish accent.
I could, I can do that too.
You know, I want to write theminto my books so that I'll get
to voice that accent in theaudiobook.
It's totally like conniving andsneaky, but it's like, you know,
not everyone can do that.
And that gives a lot ofdistinction between the voices.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
Get you practice too, right?
You know, like you can say, hey,look, I you need a Scottish guy.
I'm your guy.
You know, listen to this.
Here's here's two minutes of me,you know, being Scottish.
It's my book, too, if you wantto buy it.
SPEAKER_03 (29:12):
You'd have to say, I'm your gay.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
I'm your gay.
So I'm looking at your uhdissonance series on Audible.
Uh looks like you have so youhave um which one's this?
Okay, so you have the entirebook series together, which is
that's cool.
I like that.
And then you have book zerothrough five.
(29:35):
So you have a, I guess is zerolike a prequel?
SPEAKER_03 (29:39):
So there's actually six books.
There's four that are basicallythe main story, one, two, three,
four.
Okay.
And then there are two prequels.
Uh, volume zero is the firstprequel, and then volume up is
the second prequel.
Um and it's a silly story.
I won't, I won't, you know,belabor that why I had to write
two different prequels.
Um but yeah, there's there's twoprequels to the story.
(30:01):
It was totally intended to justbe a trilogy, but then it was
such a great story.
It kept telling itself, itdemanded the two prequels in a
sequel.
So it goes zero, up, one, two,three, four.
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
And then you have Relentless.
SPEAKER_03 (30:14):
That's number four.
That's volume four.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Okay.
All right.
Well, I'm definitely going.
So uh is the this one here, it'sthe entire series together.
SPEAKER_03 (30:24):
Yeah, all six books.
It's 51 hours of material.
All right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:29):
Well, here you go.
Boom.
SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
And there's several different narrators.
Just bought the whole series,baby.
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
There you go.
SPEAKER_03 (30:35):
Oh, thank you so much.
Always like.
Thank you.
Well, it's if you're driving orif you're doing a lot of work
with uh around the home orremodeling or whatever, it's
it's people say they love thatlength because it's 51 hours of
content.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
So I drive about two hours a day.
It's a you know, hour there,hour back.
Might be you know, fastersometimes, sometimes it could be
longer.
Depends on what I'm hitting.
So um I really like hitting theaudiobooks.
I just um I I decided to goStephen King because I haven't
listened to a Stephen King bookuh in my adult life.
(31:14):
So I'm reading uh are you aStephen King fan at all?
SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
Yeah, I love misery.
I'm I'm actually trying to, if Ican, base a little bit of my
next novel on a kind of a miserytwist, maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
Okay, all right.
I'm listening to uh fairy taleright now because I thought that
was it was had a really coolpremise that was very un Stephen
King-ish.
SPEAKER_03 (31:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, misery, misery is like, asan author, that terrifies me.
So I mean, like, why wouldn't Iwrite about that?
Because that's it's gonna beclose to home.
It's gonna hit close to home.
So my fingers will fly more thanthey would on a you know
something with math in it orsomething.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Yeah, I I so you're gonna laugh at me.
Uh the wifey's uh she grew up onhorror movies, and I had never
seen Misery.
And uh we watched it together.
When was that?
Maybe two years ago?
Uh yeah, maybe it was like threeor four years ago.
We watched Misery together.
Uh, and it was such a goodmovie, really good.
Um, but hey, I'll say this.
(32:17):
She never saw Ace Mentora upuntil like three or four years
ago either.
So uh I I we kind of throw thesemovies at each other.
I'm like, I'm like, and shelikes silly stuff like that.
I'm like, you've never seen AceMentora.
Now, anytime it's on, we watchAce Mentora.
We've seen it like a hundredtimes, you know.
Uh it's it's just it's aclassic.
SPEAKER_03 (32:35):
And Dumb and Dumber.
I don't know if you like Dumband Dumber as much, but that is,
in my opinion, that and likeGalaxy Quest are movies that
just do not fail you in terms ofcomedy all the way through.
They're just so good all the waythrough.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
Well, that's the other thing.
Dumb and Dumber is basically oneof her all-time favorite movies,
and she quotes it all the time.
And I'm like, how have you neverseen Ace Vandora?
But Dumb and Dumber is like yourall-time favorite movie.
You gotta watch it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
Tell your wife, Samsonite was way off.
SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
He said, Samsonite, I was way off.
She's laughing.
Um, but yeah, she quotes it allthe time.
It's just it's fun.
But um, so let me ask you thiswhy we're why we're on the
books, right?
Um are you are do you get timeto read some some stuff
yourself, or are you always likeon the go writing your own
(33:26):
stuff?
SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
Uh both.
I mean, like it's typically whatI'll read is like when the kids
are are having a bath night, youknow, and I'm I'm just making
sure they're okay up in the inthe bedroom.
But uh honestly, one of my bookshas been adapted for the screen,
it's being pitched to streamingnetworks.
And if they um if they exerciseuh an option to uh the right to
(33:48):
option that script or to buy it,then quickly things are gonna be
in motion and it's it's gonna beon kind of like a you're you're
carried downstream with acurrent.
And one of the things that myscreenwriters slash marketers
said is you you have to knowyour story inside and out.
So uh I am finishing up bigsurprise, the Lord of the Rings
again.
I'm reading it again.
As soon as I'm done with that,it's gonna be right back into
(34:09):
the whole saga of dissonance allover again.
Because if they option it orthey buy it, they're gonna start
writing scripts for you know thewhole series.
And I need to know it betterthan they do.
They're gonna go, hey Aaron, youknow, what's how many, how many
gun towers are on the top ofevery uh every blockade?
You know, I have to know thatthat's eight, you know?
(34:30):
So just the little bitty thingsI need to know.
So I do read, but right now it'sthe things that I've just read
over and over again.
And believe it or not, rehashingthat, recycling those favorite
reads, even though it'srepetitive, uh, it's still it's
still very energizing.
And it's still you still getfresh ideas uh and and you know
(34:53):
motivation for your your yournewest work.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Yeah, one of the my all-time favorite sci-fi series
right now that I've that I'vegotten into is uh and is called
Red Rising.
Have you heard of it?
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:08):
Um is it in a movie?
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
It's not a movie, but I know that they've pitched
it and I and I feel like umthat's where I saw it.
Yeah, it's it's not it's not uhdone yet.
The the author is Pierce Brown.
SPEAKER_03 (35:22):
Um I've totally seen the ads and the reels for it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
If it if I could tell you to read any book if you
have time.
Uh it's a uh right now I thinkit's a it's a six book series.
I think they're done uh bookfive.
Book six is supposed to be outsometime this year, hopefully.
Um one of the best series I'veever read in my life.
SPEAKER_03 (35:45):
It just I've heard that.
Good reviews too.
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
He just has a way with um it's it's like Game of
Thrones needs space, but I'malso I really like like uh that
Greek mythology and they use alot of that in in it it's it's
so good.
I I recommend it to everybody.
So uh and I'm sure it's gonna bea um a major, I know it's gonna
(36:08):
be a major motion picture.
I don't know when uh becausethey've been talking about it
for a while, but such a goodseries.
And um it's it's it resonatesreally well because it's a cast.
The the way it the book is isset up is it's a cast.
Uh you basically are assigned acolor and golds are the the
best.
Like, you know, they're they'resix, seven feet tall, blonde
(36:31):
hair, blue eyes, they'reperfect, they're athletes.
There's you're not gonna seeanyone that's out of shape.
They're like the perfect human.
And then uh everyone else has acolor and they're basically
working for them, you know.
And uh the premise of the bookis uh a red who's from Mars,
he's a minor, was totally finewith his life.
And you find this out basicallyin the first chapter, but his
(36:53):
they hang his wife.
And uh it basically turns himinto uh someone that decides
where he's he wants to bringdown the the hierarchy and it
starts, you know.
So uh he gets on a in a freedomgroup and uh they want to turn
him into a gold and they want tobring it down from the you know
inside.
(37:13):
And he there's like an institutewhere they they once you are you
know uh old enough, they put youin this institute and it's
basically cutthroat and it'sjust so good, dude.
It's so good.
I could talk about it for hours.
SPEAKER_03 (37:24):
So uh No, he's got super high ratings, so yeah, I'd
definitely be interested.
And I and I'd seen it, I think,before, but I wasn't in the I
wasn't in a reading frame ofmind just yet.
SPEAKER_00 (37:33):
Yeah, and listen, if you want to draw inspiration, I
don't know.
Uh I'm gonna read your book, soI'll let you know uh my my
thoughts.
But he's just he's very there'ssome there's some stuff in that
book that'll that'll that'llmess you up a little bit, you
know, like a beloved charactermight die and then you're like,
what the hell?
And you have to go back, youknow, yeah, I I'll I'll like go
(37:54):
back five minutes and re-listento it, like just to kind of get
it right because that's the typeof stuff that I mean as a
reader, I like where if I haveto, if someone dies or something
crazy happens and I have to goback five minutes to put myself
into like um the zone, I guess.
Uh that those are the type ofbooks I just it really draws me
in.
And then I have to keeplistening.
SPEAKER_03 (38:16):
There, um, yeah, I've definitely killed off my
share.
I'm more murderer than author,uh and I hate that.
But it's like uh it's it's itcan never be cavalier, it can
never be um uh a throwaway, youknow, especially if it's a
beloved character.
It always has to be a catalystfor something.
And so uh I learned that veryearly on.
It completely disassembled me,and you you'll hear it.
(38:38):
When a character, when I killedoff a character in volume one
reality, that's me bawling.
That's me bawling during theedit, that's me bawling during
the uh the audiobook recording.
So you'll hear that.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
Yeah, you you gotta get attached to these guys, man.
It's part you're basicallykilling off a part of yourself,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (38:55):
Yeah, it's it's your baby.
You created it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:57):
Now, you know, one of the dissonance books was, you
know, that's the what you kindof brought up.
Um, you know, did did theypursue you, you know, or or what
walk me through kind of whathappened there?
Because I know the streamingplatforms are always looking for
something new.
That's gotta be pretty excitingfor you, man.
SPEAKER_03 (39:16):
So much.
I'm I'm so I'm tickled.
I just I can't wait to seewhat'll happen with this because
um it is every indie author'sdream to have their book adapted
for the screen and to see it onscreen.
That's the goal.
Um, the goal of of course, letme clarify, isn't actually to
see it on screen, but it but tohit the the highest uh amount of
(39:38):
of readers um and people whowill enjoy your books possible.
Um so they pursued me, and youknow, as an author, I enjoy the
rich, exquisite privilege ofreceiving 30 to 40 scams, spam
emails every single day.
Um it's so frustrating becausewhat you wouldn't give to
(40:00):
receive one email a week, oneweek, saying, I I love your
stuff, you know, I loved yourbook.
No, we don't get those.
It's it's all crickets, and theonly thing we get is people who
just want to steal our money.
It's so frustrating.
Um, so I get this email fromthis guy or from his assistant
in uh March of 2024.
Um and I'm like, you know,naturally a skeptic.
(40:23):
Uh, but I vetted him, and he iswho he says he is.
He's uh a Hollywood accreditedfellow.
He's on IMDb.
His stuff is uh wasaward-winning um screenplay that
won a contest.
Get this.
Put on by Gail Ann Hurd, who isthe ex-wife of James Cameron.
I know who's that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
Gail Ann must be three degrees away from James
Cameron.
I'm like, ah, so I checked himout, I vetted him, and I said,
you know, I'm gonna be so sad ifI don't do this.
I have to do this.
Um so I did.
He's very collaborative.
It's true to the book, and it'sthe pilot from Volume One
Reality, and he's pitched it to,I don't know, uh 15 to 20
(41:06):
different studios, and no onehas said no yet, except for one,
I believe, only because theywere re um reorganizing.
Uh whether it was like the uhthe um gosh, Sky Dance and
Netflix and Paramount and WarnerBrothers and that whole
business.
Yeah, but it's the dust hassettled and now they're looking
at it again.
So I'm so excited and sohopeful.
SPEAKER_00 (41:27):
That's awesome, man.
Um listen, let's, let's, let's,um, let's ask you for a tip
here.
Um, because I do have a lot ofyoung people that do listen to
the show.
For an indie author listening tothis podcast, um, can you bestow
some some knowledge on them,maybe a realistic path?
Like, um, you know, what aresome of the things that people
(41:49):
get wrong um when they're tryingto do something like this?
SPEAKER_03 (41:53):
Oh my gosh, there's so much.
So the first thing, there's somuch I like to do.
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
I've failed so many times, but let me tell you, this
is the way to go about it,right?
SPEAKER_03 (42:02):
This is the way.
Um all you do is you justcontinue failing forward.
I mean, really, that's that'sthe story.
But um uh I so I I I'm an indieauthor by choice.
There's so many trade-offs thatyou have to make when you want
to when you sign with aself-pubbed or self-publisher or
indie publisher.
Excuse me.
(42:22):
I'm so saying this backwards.
There's so many trade-offs thatyou make when you sign with a
traditional publisher.
As an indie publisher, man, Iget much quicker, higher, uh,
quicker time to market.
I can command higher royalties.
I get to retain all rights, Iget to retain all creative
control.
I get to choose my own branding,my own editors, my own
marketing.
SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
So big, so big being able to have the creative
control.
So big.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
It's huge.
To surrender that is a I mean,for me, I'm very impatient.
I want to get my books out thereto market.
51 I'm working on right now, ifI was traditionally published,
maybe less than half of thosewould be out by now.
So maybe.
I mean, probably maybe less thana third.
I don't even know.
Um, the most important thingthough is you have to decide is
(43:06):
if you are gonna pursue umtraditional or self-publishing,
if you're going to pursue usingAI to help support uh your
creative process, because it'san incendiary polarizing topic.
I use um very occasionally I'lluse assistive AI for idea
generation for a book only.
(43:26):
I do not believe in usinggenerative AI to create any part
of my book.
Uh I'll get ideas and then I'llgo, all right, cool.
And then I'll I'll start writingmy book, and it's entirely from
here and here, entirely.
Um the industry's reallysaturated, and the offerings are
really diluted now by AIcontent.
(43:47):
It's just watered down thequality of the offerings.
So choose wisely there.
Um and Oscar Wilde said,Everyone, uh be yourself,
everyone else has already taken.
Man, don't try.
Try to be the next Tolkien,Clancy, Crichton, Grantram,
Collins, you know, uh, SA Corey.
(44:08):
Just be you.
Everyone else has already taken.
Um, find your own unique style,your own unique voice that you
can bring to the market becausethey don't need more of the
same.
Be you.
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Yeah, I think that's so important in today's world.
Um, you know, it's it's the samereason, you know, I've been
doing this podcast now for uhlike three and a half years.
Actually, yeah, we're pushingfour.
We're pushing four.
Actually, it'll August, I thinkit'll be four.
Um Wow, I the time just is likeI I don't even remember where I
am anymore half the time.
(44:40):
Um but I tell people my firstdude, my first like three years,
it was, you know, I had peoplethat would download, but it was
like, you know, I I I would I'ma numbers guy um and I'm an up
entrepreneur, so uh I haven'tearned a cent doing this.
It's just I I enjoy it.
Um, but you know, the firstthree years, sometimes it gets
(45:00):
very deflating.
You know, there'd be some timeswhere I would have such a good
guest and I'm like, this isgonna be great.
And I'd get two people thatlisten.
You know, and I'm like, fuck,man, like what more do I need to
do?
And uh it's funny, I was I wastelling the wifey this before we
got on um, you know, probably aday or two ago.
I've had more people listen tomy podcast this year, just just
(45:24):
2026 than all three yearscombined.
So it's it's yeah, it's it's uhI you know, I and I I'd imagine
as a creative, as someone that'swriting, it's the same concept,
right?
It's like don't give up.
Like just keep doing it.
If you enjoy it and you canafford to do it, you know, uh,
you know, and uh just continueto do it because you never know
(45:48):
who's gonna listen and then telltheir friend or who's gonna read
your book and tell their friend,and then before you know it, it
might be getting picked up bystreaming platforms.
SPEAKER_03 (45:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, um I I love this phrasethat I quote it all the time.
I probably overquote it, but Iwas I was given a phrase by uh a
former casting agent slash um uhentrepreneur, and she said, uh,
someone's endorsement of you orlack thereof has very little to
do with your trajectory.
(46:18):
I love that phrase because youknow, as authors, we want people
to buy our books, we want goodreviews, we want to be asked to
speak, we want to be asked toshare, we want to be invited
places, uh, we want our books tobe uh, we want to hear from
people that say they like books,whether or not it's it's comes
in a review that they post.
And um, those aren't necessarilygonna come uh quickly, if at
(46:42):
all.
So um, and those areendorsements.
Your trajectory, if you're anauthor and this is what you want
to do, it's it's your trajectoryis to continue writing books
regardless of the littlebackpats and ego strokes that
you might get along the way.
Uh if your trajectory is, or ifyour calling is to be an author,
your trajectory is forward,independent of all of that.
(47:04):
It really is.
SPEAKER_00 (47:05):
And I think that's with everything, right?
I mean, um, you're gonna docertain things and it might not
work out, but if you just stickwith it, or you know, um
sometimes you might need topivot a little bit, right?
Um, you know, when I start firststarted doing this podcast, it
was just to interview like gamevideo game streamers, uh,
because that's what I was doingat the time.
(47:26):
And I'm like, all right, howmany people am I am I gonna be
able to get to do thisregularly?
And I'm like, let's just let'sjust change the format a little
bit.
It's the same concept, just alittle bit.
And um, I think sometimes yougotta do that along the way.
Um now you mentioned AI, andthat's something I definitely
wanna wanted to talk about uhbefore we got out today.
And um, I'm a proponent of AI, Ilove AI, I'm a tech guy.
(47:49):
Um, you know, I use it in a lotof the things that I do, it does
help, but you gotta run into itto the point where it's it's
gotta be nauseating, you know,from not just you know people
using it to create books, butalso in your voiceover work.
SPEAKER_03 (48:05):
Uh it's it's dramatically negatively impacted
both careers in a massivedegree.
I can't even begin to articulatein the amount of time that we
have today.
Um, so as a voiceover actor,that's that's where I first
started to experience thenegative effects of AI.
Um, beloved, cherishedrelationships that I've had
forever with uh producers aregone.
(48:28):
Um they've been so the producershave even been either been
replaced by AI themselves.
We don't need you anymore.
We can seriously just do thisthrough C dance, or they've been
instructed to no longer usehuman voice talent because they
can use 11 Labs or Respeech orSpeech Ocean or whatever.
And they're all crappy software,they're not directable, it's
not, it doesn't have the humannuance, the human idiosyncrasy.
(48:50):
It is purely about dollars andyou know, getting it done
quickly.
So rather than pay a human voicetalent$3,300, whatever, for a
national TV commercial for ayear, which is the market rate,
we can buy speech ocean for$49for a lifetime license, you
know, and then plug in whateverwe want.
(49:12):
So it makes good fiscal sense,sure.
Um, but the you know, largelythe amount of time that you're
gonna spend, the amount of moneyyou're gonna save is gonna be
offset by the huge amount oftime you're gonna have to spend
to calibrate that voice, totrain that voice, to tweak every
little thing, to get it to yourliking, only to have to circle
back and go, you know what,screw this.
(49:33):
Let's just hire a human voicetalent again.
Uh and then an authoring, Ialready addressed that.
That just the quality ofofferings in the authoring
industry are being watered downand diluted by AI flop and crap.
SPEAKER_00 (49:47):
Yeah, I I look, uh AI is great, I think, at
assisting us.
And I like what you said,because I it's the same concept
for me.
It's like if I have an idea,I'll use AI to flush it out,
right?
Or maybe I kind of know what Iwant, but I don't know what that
is, and I'll just say, hey, youknow, hit me with 20 things, you
(50:11):
know, and then and then once I Iget that, oh then I can kind of
go with the flow with it.
Um if you're using it to doeverything creatively, it is
slob, and you're gonna get alot, and I think we're at a
point where it's like, oh mygod, you know, and the companies
are saving money and they'rethey're pumping stuff out at
(50:32):
speed, you know, I think you'llhave a pushback at some point
where it's like, okay, you know,AI can only do so much.
Now, who knows?
Maybe we'll have AI chatbotsthat you you could never tell
that they're you know, not humanand you know, in the in five to
ten years.
But I still think from a humanperspective, you just have
(50:57):
there's something I don't evenknow how to um put it in words.
There's just something about thefeels that you can almost tell,
you know, like that person is,you know, using AI and doesn't
give a shit.
SPEAKER_03 (51:11):
Right.
Yeah, it's very frustrating.
I mean, ultimately you can't umas a as a voice actor, I can
hear the difference.
I can tell when it's a syntheticvoice.
Yeah.
A lot of people are untrained inthat way, but I'm dealing with
audio all day long.
So I know full well what issupposed to sound human and what
doesn't.
And so uh, but a lot of thepeople aren't uh equipped in
(51:33):
that regard, or they don'treally care.
There's a nonchalance about it.
And um, it's not something thatyou you can train people on.
But there's also just the ethicsof it.
And you've got cases, clear-cutand dry cases, of like, you
know, Scarlett Johansson was inthe movie Her and they took her
voice and they made an AI, uh anLLM model and an AI voice of
(51:53):
Scarlett Johansson's voice.
She's rightfully suing her,suing those people.
Um, Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise inthat sea dance rooftop fight,
you know, their likenesses wereused.
Neither one of them were inthat, neither one of them
consented to that.
I have to wonder what Ian Holm,who played Ash in the original
Alien, the Android, uh, he's nowRook, which is a look-alike
(52:14):
android in Romulus.
Yep.
And it's his likeness, it's verycringeworthy.
His estate gave them permissionto do that.
But I have to wonder, what wouldIan Holm say?
Did he stipulate something inhis will?
It's just, it's it's so dick,you know, and why can't you just
come up with something new?
Uh that was another cringeworthy callback.
James Earl Jones licensed hisvoice post-mortem to uh, you
(52:39):
probably know this.
He sold the rights to his voiceum posthumously.
Well, he did it before he death,but posthumously now they can
use James Earl Jones' voice inany future uh Darth Vader
spin-off stuff because he gavethat consent.
Yeah.
And so that I'm okay with, butgosh, the consent thing is a
(53:00):
huge issue.
SPEAKER_00 (53:01):
Yeah.
And I mean, I will say that BradPitt like fighting video and
stuff was wild.
It's like absolutely wild.
But yeah, I mean, like, where doyou draw the line?
Right?
Where is that line in the sandwhere you know, yeah, you can be
creative, but but is it reallycreative just typing two
sentences in an AI?
(53:21):
I I I don't think so.
I don't think that's beingcreative.
Um, but I this is the world welive in, right?
So it's like, you know, where doyou see, you know, the
voiceover?
Well, let's talk the voiceover.
Where do you see that going inthe future?
Do you think eventually it'sgonna get to a point where it's
just gonna kind of go away, ordo you think it's going to uh
(53:42):
have some pushback with people?
SPEAKER_03 (53:46):
Um I think honestly, my gut tells me it'll go away.
I mean, people have said overand over that it won't go away.
And you've got people who are,you know, the top recognized
figureheads in the voiceoverindustry at the top of a very
narrow kind of what I like tocall an Illuminati.
They control all the speakingcircuits and they control all
(54:07):
the um, not all of them, butthey control a wide variety of
people who are recognized andendorsed and uh and promoted to
share and speak and teach andgive.
I wanted to be part of that.
I was an outsider looking in, Iwas a fifth wheel and anomaly,
and they wouldn't let me in.
I kind of got mad after a while,spoke truth to power, and left.
(54:27):
Um but you know, I'm so gladbecause it resulted in a boot
bounty of creativity.
But those people at the very topare saying, oh, don't worry,
don't worry about AI.
Um, yes, worry about AI.
Uh Siri is getting better andbetter.
Uh I can't say her name becauseshe's right there, but A L E X A
(54:48):
is getting better and better andbetter.
And Bixby and all of these otheriterations of Google Voice and
all that stuff are getting sobetter.
Now you've got visuals.
Um, what I love is somebody likeSean Aston, who played Sam Wise
Gamsby in Lord of the Rings.
He is the president of theSAGAFTRA union, and he and the
union are fighting hard tomaintain rights so that our
(55:12):
likeness cannot be taken withoutour consent.
SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
Yeah, because you know these big studios do not
give a shit.
They're gonna do everything theycan to save money.
Because at the end of the day,what what's the the general
saying?
It's you have to in order tobreak even, you have to gross
double the amount of the whatyou spent, right?
SPEAKER_03 (55:33):
Yeah, whatever it is.
Whatever, whatever that is.
Imagine they give a prompt to toChat GPT or Groc or whatever,
and then within a few hoursthey've got a full movie and
they just run with it.
Yeah, why wouldn't you do that?
SPEAKER_00 (55:45):
Yeah, and I mean, look, from a CEO per slash owner
perspective, that makes sense,right?
But I think those people are outof touch with a lot of the stuff
from down here.
Um and I think at some point, uhand I'm a tech guy.
I think AI is uh it's here tostay, it's not going anywhere,
but I think at some pointthere'll be um kind of a
(56:07):
reckoning.
Now, the voice actor stuff, Idon't know, man.
Uh it's it's it's getting betterand better.
AI, unfortunately, is justlearning at a such a rapid pace.
unknown (56:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (56:18):
There's gotta be something I think.
Yeah, there's gotta be somethingdone, I think, from the union's
perspective to continue to fightfor you guys because that's
about all you can do.
SPEAKER_03 (56:30):
Uh that's what I think is Sean Aston is doing
precisely that.
Um I went to uh in February, Iwent to um a fan expo in
Portland and saw all fourhobbits, got a picture with
them, got a uh a verycommemorative Lord of the Rings
edition, a Kinkstake editionthat I produced, signed by all
four of them.
That's awesome.
And uh and I and I talked toSean uh very briefly just at a
(56:52):
signature session and said, Um,I said, hey, I'm a I'm a
SAGAFTRA registered voicetalent, and thank you for all
you're doing.
And he goes, Great, hey, that'swonderful.
You know, how's it going?
And I said, AI.
He said, I know, I know, we'reworking hard.
You know, and I watch hisvideos, and they are.
Um I think we're the first,we're one of the first chips to
fall because it takes so muchmore processing to develop uh
(57:15):
believable, convincing videomaterial.
Audio, though, was was that wasuh that was streamlined you know
long before they started workingon on uh voice stuff.
Um video stuff rather.
But like I said, it's not Skynetyet, but yes, I think we have
people fighting for us, but it'sjust that yes, there does need
(57:35):
to be a reckoning.
Yes, there needs to belegislation on this Wild West,
unregulated um uh phenomenonthat is growing exponentially.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (57:45):
I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
And I I I would uh there's a acouple industries for sure that
I I'm happy that I didn't pursueum you know in the tech world,
and that is coding.
And uh you know, I'm surethere's a lot of other things
that are that are gonna lose abattle.
So uh and you know what?
Shout out to um, you know, uhRip Tom Kane.
(58:07):
I know we're talking aboutvoice, voice uh acting, and uh
he was the uh voice of the poweruh Powderpuff Girls doctor and
dad, and he was like a voiceactor and he did a ton of stuff.
And I I uh a lot of charactersthat uh were part of that
Cartoon Network series when Iwas a kid, so I wanted to make
sure I made a a shout out to TomKane.
(58:28):
Um that's awesome.
Yeah, uh listen, man, we'rewe're hitting that hour mark,
but I want you to um, you know,kind of hit us with your with
your plug.
Tell us what you got going on.
Uh, do you have coming anythingcoming up in the near future we
can make sure we're payingattention to?
Really exciting about the stufffor your for your book, man.
I I really uh really hope thatthat comes to fruition for you.
SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
Yeah, thank you.
Me too.
Well, that one is going theproducer route.
I've got uh four other booksadapted for the screen, and
they're going the film festivalroute.
Nice.
Um, a few of them have been, youknow, they've they've won
entrance into film festivals,they've garnered awards, which
is wonderful.
So that's good.
I'm working on book 51, which isanother uh horror paranormal
(59:08):
novel.
It's called The Darkness Within,and I'm going for a modern day
take on Jekyll and Hyde.
Um mystery of all things.
That's cool.
Um so that's what I'm workingon.
But people can go toauthorarinrion.com and find out
about um uh everything.
It's got all the social links,it's got all the uh uh the links
(59:29):
to the sub sites for thedistance, the different series.
And then they can also go toauthorarinryong.com, which is a
Facebook group where they canjoin.
There's no scammers or spammersallowed.
If you're an author, you'regonna find tips.
There's discount codes,giveaways, upcoming real
appearances and releases, news.
Um, and that's authorarinriangroup.com.
(59:52):
So there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (59:53):
Awesome, man.
Yeah, yeah.
You had a great website.
I was on there and uh doingdoing my research on what I
could.
So uh, and hey, look, buy thisguy's book, man.
You could get the entiredissonance series on Audible.
Uh, you know, I'm a member ofAudible, and uh, you know, so I
I used a credit, but it was onlylike 15 bucks, man.
You can get 51 hours of contentfor 15 bucks.
(01:00:15):
What do you do with your life,man?
You know, you I know, I know.
I'm gonna be hearing your voicefor the next like two months as
I'm driving.
So uh that's that's pretty cool.
Um, anyway, this is the Drink aClock Podcast.
You can listen to this podcastanywhere you listen to podcasts.
Uh, and on top of that, you canfind me on social media drink
o'clock pod as well.
(01:00:36):
So um look, Eric, it was it wasa pleasure having you on, man.
Thank you so much.
You're a busy guy.
And uh, let's do this againafter uh dissonance gets on the
big screen, man.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:46):
Will do.
Thanks so much for having me,Rob.
Awesome, man.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:49):
Have a great night.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:50):
Peaceo.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.