October 29, 2024 • 49 mins
Diet culture sneaks into so many aspects of our lives, and it can be hard to spot just how toxic it is - especially when it’s been normalised for so long. In this episode, Kee and Kelly dive into their personal experiences with body image and diet culture, unpacking how it affected them and what they've learned along the way. From childhood memories to shifting their mindset as parents, it's a real and relatable chat about breaking free from harmful messages and embracing a healthier approach.
LINKS:
Thin privilege is real, and it's time we fessed up - Alana Schetzer
Diet culture is rooted in racism, white supremacy and colonialism - Marisa Crane
All I Ever Wanted Was To Be Hot - Lucinda Price (a.k.a. Froomes)
Australian Organ Donor Register
HOSTS & PRODUCERS
Kelly McCarren @kelly_mccarren
Kee Reece @keereece
AUDIO PRODUCTION
Madeline Joannou - Mylk Media
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
on today. I remember this day, this conversation on the phone.
It was a boy that I had booked up with
through all high school, were really good mates, and he
said these ten words to me. He said, you would
be so much hotter if you started running, And with
(00:24):
that I ran.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit, Repeat, your
unhinged podcast about the madness that is motherhood and everything
in between.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm Kiri Cells and just a heads up that we
are discussing body image, toxic diet culture, and disordered eating today,
so this episode might not be for everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I didn't say my name to know, did you. I
don't even know. I think I'm Kelly McCarron. Anyway, I'm
pretty sure most of our shitters will know that. But
I'm just sitting here going I've got no idea if
I said my name before we start. We do have
a request, go on and please go and review us
on both Apple and Spotify. You can do it while
you're listening to us. It takes less than a minute.
(01:05):
It's a free and very easy way for you to
support the podcast. Now to kick the episode off keys
up for peaking pitch.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I am.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Let's hope it's a less shit.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Oh look, it's less physically.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You're never going to get old.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's never going to get old. Oh, but it is
a bit sad. So just prefacing it with I'm just
going to talk about some grief for my pit and
it is the day as well, so it's a little
bit of a double barrel sadness. But the past week
has been pretty emotional. So today is my mother in
(01:43):
law's birthday, so it's been quite a difficult week just
in the lead up to it. For context, if you're
a new listener, we lost my mother in law really
suddenly at the beginning of the year, and the green
has been incredibly hard to navigate. Also grieving while pregnant,
(02:04):
and it's difficult because you know that these firsts are
going to come up, but you don't necessarily realize how
victim you're.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Going to be and the impact that that first will have.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, and you know it's coming and you can just
feel your yourself kind of like your heart breaking all
over again.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And because it is the first year that you won't
be calling her and getting rude of seeing and yeah,
all of that stuff and that's so heavy.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, And I think it's almost like the lead up
is all the makeup I've just put on is coming.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Off streaming down your face the lead.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Up to it. I wouldn't say it's worse, but you
just you have to live your life, right, So you're
living while your body is processing or bracing for like
this big emotional sadness and kind of just questioning everything
all over again and just really missing that person a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So the problem with grief and time is that all
of these firsts are going to hit you so hard.
Yet I think people are empathetic, but no one can
really understand to what you're going through. And I mean
it's a bit different for you, but for anyone in
a normal job, people at work would be like, you've
(03:29):
had your time off for grief. What do you you know?
You've had your grieving period. Yeah, And it's definitely trying
to navigate all of these new parts of grief that
will continue to find you while yeah, living your life
and working and mothering and everything in between.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and the mothering particularly has been difficult. Like I
can't tell you the number of times in the last week,
like and rue isn't inherently like a mean hid but
she or just say like I don't like that or something.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And they can be jerked. We can acknowledge that they
can be real jerks.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And it's just broken me. Like I've just been really
emotionally sensitive and she's seen me cry like three times
this week, and I'm just like, fuck, is this like
fucking her up right now?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Like, oh, we've been It's important that she sees that
you're a person with varied emotions just like she is.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh my god, let me say something all the time,
do not go.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
That makes me feel better. You know where I got
this from? Though Mummy's flipping house. She's like, I try
not to cry in front of my kids, And I
was like, fuck, is that bad? Oh my god, I've
just not realized, like this wasn't on my radar. I
don't think then.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'm not a psychologist and I haven't spoken to one
about this, but I feel like kids need to be
aware that we have different emotions. It's about things. I mean, listen,
you don't want your kids to grow up and go,
oh my mom just cried all the time. Yeah, fucking
but like just like you're happy, you also get angry,
and you also get sad, and you also get tired,
and you get hungry, and you get everything that they get. Yeah,
(05:15):
just totally like a little bit less unhingedly hopefully no exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So yeah, that was my pit this week, just of
the lead up to that.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, that's a big How are you and Charlie planning
on celebrating her tonight?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh goodness, I'm probably gonna start crying again.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Sorry, Oh my gosh, what are friends in podcasts for.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
We're actually going out to dinner. We got given about
in the best restaurant, so we're going out to celebrate her. Yeah,
so nice.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So we are excited for that, and she will be there.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, we feel her for sure, and Rue is like
the spinning image of her, so she is.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It's wild.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Okay, I'm going to compose myself's.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So rough, but I'm so sorry for you and Charlie, Like,
that's just it's just relentless, isn't it Just one thing
after the other you think, oh, you know, it's getting
a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, her birthday, yeah exactly, and then even just like
the leader to the new baby, I think will be
quite hard as well. Yes, that's right, we will get
through it with some tears.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's healthy to get things out instead of internalizing them.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I actually ordered some flowers yesterday for my father in
law and my.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Sister in law, and that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, but it was fucking comical. I called up the
florist and was hysterically clearing on the phone to her,
and I said to her, I'm gonna have to text
best to chew the card because I don't think I
can actually say it out loud, like.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's all of these things online. Key.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I wanted to make sure that it got there on time,
like I don't want it to be late, and like
it's you know, they live in the Northern Rivers and
typically things are, yeah, things are a bit slower, so
I just wanted to like make sure everything was good
but far out, like you just don't realize something's.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Gonna affect you.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
And I was just like, this is.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Not like anyway, to be fair, they would probably be
used to it, I hope.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So she was lovely too.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Don't think that it would have been the first time
someone's had a cry on the phone.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, exactly. That's a very good point. Thank you. Okay,
so peak, which is kind of like pit rising because
I'm gonna explain to you. So when we were overseas,
I got a message from this daycare that I've had
rus list on forever.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Says outside playtime.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So much outside playtime, girl, It is like my dream
daycare and not getting sick all the time. Learning shit. Anyway,
they messaged me saying, hey, we've got spots for five
like let me know if you're still interested, and I
was like yes, and so they're like, oh, welcome, rue
can start in January, and I was like fuck yeah.
Like everyone where I live talks about like this daycare
(08:13):
being so amazing, so like we're all ready to move
through in the new year and everything's going great. Then
my girlfriend messages me and her son goes to this
other amazing daycare and was like in it, it had
a message about they've got spots next year for twenty
twenty five. So for some reason, most of the spots
typically will go to siblings, so there's very limited spots, right.
(08:36):
But for some reason, I think some people aren't having
a second, some people are waiting a little bit longer
to have a second. So there's like all of the
space pretty much a whole class bar three spots. And
so I messaged this chick on Monday and went for
a tool yesterday and she offered it me.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So now I have.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Two offers all my two best daycares in my area,
which obviously, because I'm me, is now turning into a
fucking catastrophe because.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I don't know what one to choose exactly. Pretty easy decision.
Wasn't only one of them for three days?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
No, both of them have four?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh wow, So okay, see you really are struggling. You've got.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
To help. One is like three minutes further than the other.
They're both away from us, like we have to drive,
so it's much of a muchness. You know, one could
be closer if we do end up buying like this year,
one could be closer to that, But they're three minutes apart,
so it's not enough to like factor in. But I
immediately called Ru's best friend's mum, Beck, who I mentioned
(09:41):
from time time on.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
The pod friend of the pod brother's.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Group's friend of the pod. Beck. We've been trying to
get them into the same daycare basically, and I called
her and I was like, there's spots at this place
like call up. So she emailed and she's doing a
tour tomorrow. So and she can't get into the other
day care because we already tried that and there weren't
any spots. So if she you can get Goldie into
this staycare, then I think that will be the one
(10:05):
because then they can kind of go up together.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And yes, and like, oh how nice to have your
little bestie.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
There exactly, And then it would just be easier, like
we can carpl and like alternate pickups and you know,
all things that'll be actually really helpful as well. But
the good thing is there's not really a bad choice
because both of these daycares have like really great raving
reviews from parents and stuff. So yeah, that's my peaks.
(10:31):
Finally I've got a little bit of luck with the daycare.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
You've got a little no more flood No more floods. Yeah,
high temperatures and not giving a child's water, getting bitten
all the time, well that was just one more stuck
inside like jail exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So it's a good problem to have overall. But I'll
let you know how it go.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
If you grew up in the nineties and early noughties,
and you don't have long standing body image issues. Congratulations,
you're a very rare breed.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yes you are r kel elephant in the room. You don't.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, but I did. I just managed to get myself
out of it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, Well, that middle aged white man energy continues, we
see as always for millennials, our formative years were spent
in the cultural storm that was the pre.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Internet space and the newly pressure filled world of social media.
It was the perfect storm of body shaming forces like
magazine covers with loose five kilos fast splashed next to
the emaciated bodies of the stars of our favorite TV shows,
weight loss Shakes, the heroin cheek fashion era that involved
(11:47):
things like low rise genes with razor sharp hip bones
protruding like an essential accessory, access to thin spot tumbler sites,
and pro ano rhetoric or TV series with rapidly shrinking stars.
It was uniquely awful. It was a fat phobic time
in cultural history that's left many of us with seriously
screwed up body image issues. Can relate, although being thin
(12:10):
isn't a new concept for us, Like our mothers and
grandmothers grew up using cigarettes to curb their appetites. The
harmful messaging we absorbed from every single direction wasn't the
same at thin worshipping propaganda that they had, so for us,
aesthetics was just one part of the equation. We weren't
taught that being thin was just the standard of beauty,
(12:31):
but it was the physical manifestation of discipline, dedication, and effort.
We were told from every single angle. And as we know,
the older we've got, the more different media messages we've
received every single day that weight was somehow correlated with
morality and value, and that is what has screwed us
up in a way that is entirely distinct from our
(12:52):
prior generations. As an example of this, if someone admits
that they don't exercise if they're thin, it can be
pummed off with like an eye roller, but if they're
in a larger body, it is met with horror and revulsion.
Nothing is more shameful than being lazy or gluttonous, or
the perception of such. And people need to know that
(13:13):
someone has discipline to increase their moral value, and discipline
is synonymous within this. When I was in high school, I,
like many teenagers, was obsessed with the notion of celebrity.
I cried when I met Tamin Cursock and beck Hewitt
Nieka right at the nabiak Thunner Up. I know after them,
I actually cried. And I wasn't even allowed to watch
(13:35):
Home and Away. So it wasn't like I was huge
fans of their work. It was just that I was
so in awe and overwhelmed with the idea of celebrity.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, I was wondering how you even knew of them
because you were locked up in your room reading the
whole time.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I still I was very into celebrity. Of course, my
day to Friday, I would wake up early and run
for one to two hours. Then I would come home
and shake the toaster over a plate or put some
wheat bis crumbs and a bit of milk bowl so
I could convince my parents. I'd eat and breakfast. My
dad would make me vitiweats or rivatas, those yummy things
with vegimite for lunch because I would eat them. And
(14:09):
I would also pack of tuna because I hate tuna,
and I would then just sit and pick at it.
Often I would be so dizzy on the bus on
the way home that I would get home and go
for another jog. Before being so starving, I would generally
eat half a bag of biscuits and then smash my dinner.
Thank goodness, because it's the only reason that I never
got too thin. Yeah, yeah, I'm tall and broad, and
(14:30):
I just wanted to be really small like the celebrities.
I grew up in an era when I was told
that size ten was plus sized and if you wanted
to be a star, you had to be a size zero, which,
to be honest, I still don't understand, like that just
seems impossibly small. And the crazy thing is is that
when we see videos resurface so Tyra Banks calling a
model too big, we look at you.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
We don't see a model. And as much as I
hate and preach about models not having to be stick skinny,
we have to face it that we are in the
fashion industry. You don't fit the clothes, you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Don't work, Or we see magazine covers where a very
small Jessica Simpson is said to have packed on the pounds.
The horrifying thing is that I never actually saw these
things and thought there was anything wrong with it. Like
I was never shocked or confused or saw that and
thought are they joking like that was just so normal
to me. So, Keith, tell me about your experience and
(15:22):
what you think about all this.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Can I just say, excellent points. I feel like you
were kind of narrating my adolescence and probably a good
chunk of my adult life, which pains me to even admit,
because I just hate that I've wasted so much time
thinking about this and being consumed with this. But for me,
when I'm talking about the details of my experience, and
specifically my experience like my eating disorder, I'm really careful
(15:46):
about what I do and don't say about the details
of how I achieved that or what I did that
was bad, because I feel like people who are struggling
go on to use those things to further this sickness.
They can also be big triggers, and I know this
because I have been that person in the past. But
I can kind of give you a little bit of
(16:07):
like an overview.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I never even considered that from an adult perspective, Like
I just never thought like mentioning different things that I
did could be triggering, even though like as a teenager,
of course I would read different things that people did
and I thought, oh, that's a great idea. I don't know.
I guess I just assumed that because we're all adults
(16:29):
now that it wouldn't have the same impact.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
But I tell you what, even to this day, if
I see a magazine that has like diet tips, I'll
read it. I know to be critical about it, but
like you know, so I'm just careful because I mean,
I did everything. But I think finding out that I
was having a daughter who now know is rude because
she has been born, I thought a lot about my
(16:53):
relationship with my body image, and I really tried to
get the root of it. So I've done a lot
of thinking about kind of how this all came about,
because it's really important for me to try to not
let her waist one minute of her life thinking about
her weight, because I feel like I've spent so long
worrying about my weight that I could I've done it
(17:13):
basically two lifetimes over. But from a really young age,
dieting and talk of dieting was really constant. My birth
mum especially was obsessed with dieting and was always trying
some latest fad that promised you'd shed the kegs, and
that kind of language just was right alongside new words
I was learning, so it was very much. I consumed
(17:36):
it at such a young age, and I was a
bit of a chubby kid. I was very aware that
my body wasn't I want to.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
See so cute too?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh my god, I was just all cheeks. I mean,
I'm still like a cheeks now, but I was so cute.
But I remember, actually, you still have really good cheeks.
I know that's succulent me Philip for more. But I
do remember feeling really embarrassed and all of shame whenever
I had to get changed, you know, like just out
with like an aunts or uncle with the other cousins
(18:06):
and having to get changed. I like really felt that shame.
I didn't understand necessarily why, but I remember feeling it
around my body and wanting to cover up. But fast
forward to year eight, I had this like massive growth
spurt and I dropped a bunch of weight and I
didn't really feel that different. But the thing that stood
out to me the most at that time and like
(18:26):
reinforced that I should feel like proud, was how people
treated me. And this is so lame, but this is
literally what happened. So in the space of a year,
I had moved into a different group at high school,
and then I started dating the hot guy of the grade,
so like completely like something out of a teen movie.
And that's so lame and I'm cringing, But that reward
(18:49):
for my body looking differently was like so obvious at
that time, and I felt like that really loud laid
the foundation in my psyche of like the value that's
society puts on people with smaller bodies, all this idea
of like thin or skinny privilege, which I'll get to
in a second, but I would say that the trigger
of my eating disorder. And that's fucked because I remember
(19:12):
this day, this conversation on the phone. It was a
boy that I had like hooked up with through all
high school, are really good mates, and he said these
ten words to me. He said, you would be so
much hotter if you started running. And with that I ran.
I ran every day, I ran very far, and I
became completely obsessed. And then you know, around the same time,
(19:36):
the invention of the Internet was just kind of like
where I got my PhD in eating disorders, Like if
you put lists together of the things like I have
done it. But the really sad thing about that is
that all of those tricks that I practiced to be
thin for so many years. I now live with the
repercussions of and I have the side effects of today.
So I have a bunch of food intolerances. I now
(19:58):
have ibs. I have a really incredibly lazy boo, and
those are my daily reminders of how poorly I treated
my body. And it is heartbreaking, like heartbreaking that these
are all things that are self inflicted. But I think
a lot about the turning point, because even though I'm
not cured, I don't think I ever will be.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You've gotten a lot better, like even when we met,
much better that period between you and your late twenties
to now, you've changed so much.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Thank you so much because I try to remember that,
because I do go through bad periods of course still,
but they're few and far are between. Is that the same?
I don't even know, you know, they're not as frequent,
and I feel like I often think to myself, like, wow,
you've come so far. And it was very much when
I started working on a daily entertainment podcast with a
(20:51):
dear friend of mine who's just the most incredible, intelligent person,
amazing journalist Laura Brodnick We worked on this podcast together
for four years, and it was my job basically every
day to dissect celebrity culture and entertainment, and I had
to critically examine things that were happening at a time
when collectively we were all re examining a lot of things,
(21:11):
but specifically diet culture or toxic dyt culture and how
Hollywood largely perpetuated these ideals. And that's when, for the
first time, I came across the term that I mentioned
a little bit before, which is thin or skinny privilege
and also pretty privilege. So when I discovered the idea
of thin privilege, it fucked me up, but in a
(21:33):
good way because suddenly I was like, Wow, I realized
that I was perpetuating the stigma around wait as well
as fat phobia by kind of buying into this thin privilege.
And once I understood that, and I also have to
shout up Lucy Neville because I know that she's going
to be listening like she's from jen Z. Once I
(21:54):
became friends with her specifically as well, I was finally
able to improve my body image because I literally had
this deeper understanding of this phenomenon that had kind of
like taken hold of me. There's something that was like
so tied to our culture and our value and our worth.
And then I had someone younger than me going like,
why do you say that stuff to yourself? Like that's
(22:15):
so crazy, Like can you hear what you're saying to yourself?
And then Lucy would always say, well, I'm bigger than you,
so am I fat? And I'd be like, oh, you're not,
Like it used to be not a youth thing.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I used to say that to people all the time too.
I'd be like, or if someone would be like, oh,
so and so's a bit big, I'm like, I'm bigger
than that person, and you're saying it in a negative way,
so what do you say about me? And I also
what you're discussing with Lucy, it makes me think of
you know, whenever a friend is being really rude to themselves,
it kisses me off because I'm like, don't fucking say
(22:49):
that about yourself. If you wouldn't say it about your
friend or someone you love, why are you saying it
about yourself? One hundred percent like treat yourself kindly. Of
course we all have bad days, but don't treat yourself
like shit. Don't treat yourself like someone you really dislike.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, I agree. I wanted to quickly sorry, and I've
just been gasbagging for so long, but I wanted to
quickly explain thin privilege using the words of someone way
smarter than I am. And I found this article that
was written in twenty nineteen, and this is I think
that the term was coined by a chick on Twitter
who is tweeting about thin privilege. And it was as
we were kind of like understanding like the privilege of wealth,
(23:27):
the privilege of race, all of that kind of stuff,
and then thin privileges ideal came up. So this is
from a Sydney Morning Herald article thin privilege is real
and it's time we fest up. It was written by
Elana Seltzer. Hopefully they got her last name correct, so
it reads the thin and thin privilege is not about
being supermodel skinny, but being at a weight that means
that you're not subjected to judgment and harassment from strangers.
(23:49):
It means that you can go into almost any clothes
shop and find something that will fit. You can eat
a hamburger in public without people clearly judging your decision.
You can wear something figure hugging without people's sneaks at you,
and like, I just added the sin exactly what you
said before kel is say that you don't work out,
and it's okay. You know. The article goes on to say,
when I speak about thin privilege, I'm talking about the
(24:12):
advantages that thin people in Western culture experience, such as
being assumed healthy and having a wide array of clothes available,
as well as a body that aligns with dominant ideas
of what is attractive.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I'm so clever and so clever because it's so true
when people comment, like on someone's body on Instagram, going unhealthy,
I'm sorry, are you that person's doctor?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
How can you assume that? Of course there is some face?
But skinny does not mean healthy. I wrote a list
of pop culture references I was having a little think
about God memory Lane, and I want to read them
to you, and I think that, like every single one
of them, you'll probably go on my own. The discourse
(24:58):
around Britney' stomach and her stomach in general, remember everyone
was like a thousand crunches a day. Who didn't try
to do a thousand crunches a day? That's ridiculous yep,
the way that the Sweet Valley Twins size was always mentioned,
and it was mentioned everywhere, and on that note hand
spanned waste, which that was the description for every leading
(25:19):
lady in books. Celery is calorie negative food. Kate Moss,
nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. The chubby girl
in Love actually the god, I know what.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You know, Natalie who works there, the chubby girl who
would we call her chubby?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think there's a pretty sizable ass there, yes, sir,
huge thighs, the Kate Winslet jokes around Titanic Bridget Jones
being called fat and like being the larger lady in
the bunny outfit. The bunny outfit stands out to me everywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It looked like a common prostitute until that was actually
the point.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
She has one hell of a body, I know, I know,
Oh my god, that she was considered big, like.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, it's actually rude, Like she looked so fucking banging
in that bunny costume.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Alia McBeal Friends Dawson's Creek, Buffy, the oc where stars
just shrunk before our very eyes.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Wait, Ali mcbeill was so bad, like Porscha to ROSSI
I remember she came out years later and talked about
her eating disorders, and they all had them, yea, but
she was the only one really to ever address it,
And I just thought, imagine being an actress on that set.
It would have been terrible.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
The Rachel Zoe aesthetic, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And then New Caffany every hour that you can and
drink lots of water.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And Paris Hilton in low rise jeans. Those photos are
just like imprinted on my mind.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
The way I worshiped Rachel Zoe and all of those same.
I mean, I still do think that she's I love
her style. I don't love her aesthetic, but I love
her style. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah. When I remind you all that, does it make
you think that maybe things have gotten better? Because sometimes
I worry that it hasn't, especially when I think about
things like our current Zimbic obsession, or the AI trickery
with face tune, or just like the exact same problems
but masquerading as wellness.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Oh the wellness thing. Yeah, for sure, Well on a zenpic,
I do think it was like quite a step backwards.
But I think only really for certain generations, like mainly
the generations that spent their whole lives trying to be
a size zero when their body type was not that,
but the fact that this was like now achievable. I mean,
(27:42):
I understand the appeal when you've spent your whole life
trying to be a size and then there's an option,
like I don't blame people for doing.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
That, but I think it's hugely problematic. I think it's fine. Yeah,
if people need it for health reasons, fine, but I
don't don't want my kids to walk out in a
world where everyone's a tiny size when that isn't how
the world is like.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And that's where I think we're lucky, right because I
do see growth and change in young It doesn't mean
we would.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Never take a zem pic they would be like why.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I don't think it means that diet culture doesn't like
suddenly exist. Of course, a new cohort of kids, right,
and they're going to have other problems that are going
to affect their generation way more so. It just means
that they aren't the only voices in the room, and
often they're not the loudest. So I think it's just
more balanced or more balanced in the way of being
more positive or neutral about bodies like, this is my body.
(28:41):
I'm showing up every day and my body, and I
think that is where it is. I think before it's
been greatly unbalanced with media, with culture, with society, everything
like that. But suddenly we're kind of flipped it on
its head. So I've got a lot of hope for
our kids.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Me too, Me too. I also didn't realize that dit
culture is rooted in racism. I had no idea. And
it's funny how many things that are perceived as okay
in Western culture and just the norm actually are because
I've talked to you before about other different things that
I read studies about. But this article by Marissa Crane
(29:19):
was called dit culture is rooted in racism, white supremacy,
and colonialism, and I knew that it was obviously directly
connected to fat phobia. I didn't realize that fat phobia
then had roots in the Transatlantic slave trade. So Marissa says,
white European colonists labeled Black people as gluttonous, undisciplined, and
(29:41):
hyper sexual, and held that their love of food made
them fat. Meanwhile, the colonists considered themselves the superior race
because of their self control and moderation, which caused them
to be thin. Soon, fatness became associated with racial inferiority
and immorality in the United States, and subsequently, bodyweight and
(30:01):
size became a way for people to distinguish between slaves
and non slaves, with a common belief being that fat
people didn't deserve to be free. When I asked our shitters,
ninety eight percent said that they had body image issues
growing up and were affected by toxic diet culture, and
ninety percent said they still suffered the same issues. And
(30:22):
that makes me so fucking sad, because that's an awful
lot of fabulous shitters walking around the world not feeling
great about themselves.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
It doesn't surprise me, though, I was like, if you
think about girlfriends, would that surprise you.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I don't really talk about that stuff with my girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
But just because you don't talk about it doesn't mean
it doesn't exist, you know, Like I mean, if it does,
it's more so.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well. Me and my sister often say that we're like,
why don't we have worth body image issues? Because our
mum honestly like, yeah, And which is funny because sixty
three percent of SIT has said that they've said something
negative about their appearance in front of their child. But
ninety eight percent said their care, which is super important
because my mum, I mean, she didn't know any better.
(31:05):
But we grew up in a house where she was
always trying to lose weight completely. She did the fat
Blaster pills and we would just laugh because we'd be
like fat bluster and she'd do intimate fasting and she'd
do all the remember the real replacement shakes. Oh yeah,
exist those weird exercise things from the infomercials, like.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh my god, the infomercials blaster and like the away.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yes, she poured them all. So me and my sister
always like, why do we not have worse body imagicies?
Because you should, but you don't, which is great. Oh
it's that middle aged white man.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Thing coming through, coming through shrunk.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
We asked people for their thoughts and experiences, like so
when I did a little survey to the shit is,
I could not believe how much much of the toxicity
stems from within the home. So we can blame like
it's funny. We can blame media all we want. We
can be like goddamn a I and the bloody Kardashians
(32:11):
or whatnot, But our issues actually seem to primarily come
from the language our parents use, which is why it
is so important that we try and break the mold
for our own kids. This got the most responsible we've
ever gotten from a survey, so I'll only read some.
We'll use some of them for socials because it's just
so interesting. People had so much to say about this topic.
(32:35):
So the first open ended question was to tell us
about your experiences with self image and your perception of
toxic diet culture. And then the second question was what
are you implementing in your house to help produce negative
self talk slash body image in your child slash children.
I love that we're going the problem, but we're having
solutions exactly. Well, there's no point just winging. We need
(32:58):
to come up with ways to make sure that it's
a little bit better. So, okay, my grandma weighing me
at visits and telling me how much I had to
lose by the next visit, the shame. I'm very much
aware on what we say and how we say things
are impacting young children. What to avoid saying. There are
so many more positive things that we can focus on
(33:19):
that doesn't involve the way someone looks. Yes, I can
never remember a time that both my mom and grandma
weren't on some sort of a diet, constantly talking about
their weight and ideal weight and how fed up they
were with their bodies, despite both being very healthy, straight
sized women. During my teen years, when I was taller
(33:39):
and bigger than average, I was constantly wishing to be
smaller and thinner like the popular girls at school. I
actually don't remember too much of the diet culture in
the media, apart from that fat photo of Jessica Simpson
and she's put fat in like commas because it's quite ear.
But I acutely felt the lack of body positivity in
my family, and I still it's not just media. My
(34:02):
mum still was always on a diet exercise regime, always
up and down, and still comments on people like what
they wear because they shouldn't wear this because of that
body part, or they should wear this because of this
body part. Being tall and curvy, there was never anyone
like me on TV unless they were an athlete, but
you never usually saw them dressed up. You always just
(34:24):
saw them like in athletic gear, and that's what I
d most of the time. My mother is the biggest
culprit of forcing toxic diet culture on me. She recently
said to me, I can't wait for you to start
losing your baby weight so we can share diet tips.
My son was six months old at the time. He's
now thirteen months. I have yet to share dieting tips
with her because I'm trying to love my body and
(34:46):
respect the time it needs to heal after pregnancy, birth
and raising a baby.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Ah. Oh my god, Oh my god. That is I
feel for her. Go her, though, stay to her, honestly
to She's obviously had a fucking generation of this said
to her her mom. But like, good on you for
recognizing that you've birthed the baby just over a year ago.
(35:11):
Like take your time, girl, whatever your body looks like,
that's your body. Like it's fine.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I've always thought I was fat, even before I got fat.
The amount of crazy diets I saw my mom do
was unreal. She's doing better now that she's ever done,
which is good.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
But like good, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It's so hard for people. It's just the amount of
these responses that involve the person's mother or parents, but
mother in particular. Oh my goodness, if one thing everyone
can take away from this episode. It's actually and I
(35:50):
didn't even know this, and I was doing like I
thought that I knew this, but I would have blamed
the media mostly. Actually, it's what's happening in home, and
it's a bit of a cop out to blame the media.
Of course the media have a lot to answer for,
But where.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Are those mums getting the pressure from it. They're getting
it from the media, from the world telling them to
be a certain way.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I know, but we now know better, So it's our
job to change that for our kids. Our moms didn't
know any better.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
We do, Yeah, definitely, And I think we're lucky in
that media is different now as well, so independently kids
will have more representation and diverse exactly all of that stuff.
So all of those things working together is going I
mean it already has.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I'll pop some of the tips because we've got heaps
of like different things that people are implementing in their
house to reduce that negative self talk and body image.
It's mostly just about like talking about food neutraally, don't
commenting on people's bodies, and like not giving your child
an appearance related compliment.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yes, this is a huge one for me. Like I
never call ru beautiful. I never comment on that stuff,
like I just don't want that to be an important thing.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I think reading through the responses made me deaf definitely
realize that I need to get better with my language
around food at home. Yeah, because that's like, oh, it's
so hard with toddlers because I'm like and also, you
know me, I've got such a sweet tooth.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Oh same, but I'm like, bro, you can't live on sugar,
just because I know we need to do a follow
up episode on like with a kid's dietician or something around,
like or a kids suck and a dietitian around like
what the yae language is, because we do want to
say you shouldn't eat a chocolate bar, but we want
(37:35):
to say it in the right way.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Like, you know, the advice is always you know you
sometimes food and always food, And it's like, have you
met a toddler They want the sometimes food all of
the time and you can't help it slip into no,
that's a treat, like you're not having a treat for
breakfast or I don't use the word bad food to
be fair, but I definitely say treat all the time.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Well, do you know, what's actually so annoying is that
I have the biggest sweet tooth and Rue just does
knock give a shit about sugar, and so I'm always
trying to do shit with her, like I want to
take her out for a treat, and she's rather shit
about it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And I'm just like, can you just be a normal kid,
and like, she's so funny, I'll come out with you.
You can take me out for ice creams Helena.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I often just go by myself with her and get
myself on ice cream, and I'm just like, this is
not as fun as sharing it with someone else.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
And do you feel a little bit ridiculous that you're
the adult with the ice cream and your kids make
make better choices?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yes? Yes, yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Make better choices. Do you have any final thoughts? Because
I have just been rambling this episode I found it
so interesting, But I did say to Key, I was like,
I'm gonna do this episode because I feel like you're
still very don't need to be triggled by all of
the different information and articles out there.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I'm glad that you did take the lead on
the set for sure, or because I think that to
be honest, and I think we are going to do
this as a follow up episode. I think that it's interesting.
With my first pregnancy, I really embraced my changing body
and everything like that, but this time around it was
really different, and I found myself like with a lot
of negative talk, which has been really hard.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Do you think that that could also have something to
do with that you're feeling worse in general mentally because
of the grief.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think it's a number of things. I think it's
not being able to exercise, like, yeah, understanding, like saying
to myself, hey, you're growing a human. This pregnancy is different.
You are allowed to rest, like you don't have to
move your body if you're not feeling up to it.
But then it's also like, well, the result of not
moving my body is that mentally I feel really down.
(39:49):
So it's kind of like the cycle of like which
then in turn, you know, you look different in clothes,
and I was, you know, quicker to get out of
genes time around, and I was really left with not
a lot of options.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Which is why you wore your fish clothing.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
No, the fisherman invest is Sheikh Kelly, even though you
don't think so. So the point I was trying to
make was I'm glad that you took the leader on
this at this point in time, because I think that
I'm definitely in one of those moments where I've become
a little bit critical of my image, but I also
am not. Like the interesting thing about it is you're
aware of it. I'm aware of it, and then I'm
(40:28):
also aware of the fact. Well, I think that I'm
quite evolved in the body neutrality space, like you've gotten
a good day, right, But I worry about women who aren't,
and I worry about you know, pregnant women or women
who are raising kids and them still struggling. So I
(40:49):
think it's an important conversation to talk about, and hopefully
we do do that.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Definitely listen this topic. There's probably like bloody twenty episodes
in it. I'm glad that you are open about it, though,
because if you weren't, I would probably And like I said,
it's not really something that me and my friends talk about, Like,
I find it very hard to understand that someone that
has so many interesting things about them and so much
(41:17):
to live for, like, would waste too much time worrying
about that. And that makes me sound evangelical, But he
can back it up that I genuinely ninety five percent
of the time do not have any body image issues.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
And that is such like honestly cal that is such
a good thing to have. It's really difficult to understand
when you haven't had to diagnose eating disorder, about how
much of a hold it can really take on your life.
I mean, people die from this every day, and which
is kind of show how severe it is, like it
(41:52):
is an illness, oh and oh absolutely, and there are
varying degrees of it. But I think that it's just
proven by the number of shitter is that responded. Actually,
they were saying like it has been something that has
always been there and changes only really just started to happen.
So we are getting there. But I do love talking
(42:14):
about this because I think.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
That I love juicy stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah. Well, I think that the reason why I finally
turned a corner was through the conversations that I had
about it and challenging my beliefs and challenging why I
think a certain way, and just being exposed to a
different way of thinking, Like if you're living in an
echo chamber of people talking about their weight and their
diets and boring fitting into this, but that's what you're
going to believe. I think it's really important, like to
(42:39):
broaden the conversations that you're having, or what you're listening
to or things like that, because that is what changes
your actual psyche around how you think about things like
body weight and type culture and body neutrality and just
living in a body without any kind of value attached
to it.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Before we move on to recommendations, I want to ask
you a rhetorical question. Well, everyone's playing a long at home. Yeah,
imagine the life you could live if you just allowed
yourself to weigh what you weighed?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, wow, all.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Right, recommendations on the topic of today, I would like
to recommend Loucinder Price aka Froom's new book All I
Ever Wanted to Be Hot? If you've enjoyed this conversation,
because oh my goodness, it was just like I also
listened to it like on audible, and she is reading it,
and it's honestly like listening to that Australian accent someone
(43:43):
you know. I think she's around my age. Actually I
don't know, I think so, I assume. So it was
honestly just like reading my own experience in high school
and oh my goodness, I just yeah, it was amazing.
So that's my recommendation has got a very important one.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yes, So at the top of the episode, I talked
about it being my mother in law's birthday and something
that we are really passionate about as a family is
just raising awareness for the Australian Organ Donor Register.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Can you just explain to people, because it shocked me
and I think it would shock a lot of other
people how hard it is. It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
So a lot of the time because people aren't registered.
It comes down to the family at the end of
someone's life who have to make that decision. And it's
obviously a very emotional time. So even if you do
get the family's approval to do that, so many things
(44:46):
have to go right, like the organs have to be
in good shape, the match has to be in good shape.
There's paperwork that has to be done, and things can
get delayed. It's just it's honestly a mirror call when
an organ donation does happen.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
How many did you say had been donated successfully in
the last year when you talked to that doctor.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
It was something tiny and I'm sorry sorry that shocked
me start, but it was like in one year, I
think they had maybe eight, and you just think of
organ donation as being this thing.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I just thought it was something. I thought eight would
happen an hour. Like I just assumed everyone was an
organ donator and that organ donating was just something simple.
So this is so important.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Process changed as well, Like I know, when I was
younger in Queensland, going for your driver's license, you just
tick a box, but now it's all been centralized and
you have to go to Services Australia dot gov do
AU and actually register, like it's a national register where
you can record your organ in tissue donation decision, which
means that they haven't on a file. You have to
be over sixteen to do it, which most of our
(45:54):
listeners definitely would be. But I think because it changed,
even if you had previously ticked a box on whatever
kind of driver's license form or something, that actually took
away the register that you are registering for organis tissue donations.
So I think that something that really stood out to
me was just so how grateful the people at the
(46:18):
organization were and how much just how precious they know
that that gift can be.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Oh it's the most heartbreaking gift. I just finished reading
a book where the mother had to, you know, choose
to donate her daughter's organs, and it was so horrible
because I was reading it through the lens of the
mum and she's like, oh my god, these people just
asking me these questions like it's so insensitive, blah blah blah.
(46:47):
But it's like, but they actually just they're just doing
their job. They have to. That would be the hardest job,
but they would be so grateful for the amount of
lives that they can save.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, exactly, And honestly, like the amount of lives that
are touched by a loved ones's organ donation is just incredible.
And when you lose someone really in any way, whether
it's like suddenly or a long illness or whatever, like
(47:18):
you just need there to be like some happy news,
you know. So for us, it's a family, it's been
really important that we made that decision and and it's beautiful.
There's like a little organ donation ceremony happening in the
next couple of months in Sydney and Newcastle for the
families of organ donator. So just even like recognizing that,
(47:41):
like even though you'll love, especially like how they like
live on you know, yeah because they do, Yeah, they do,
and just how thankful those families are. You also find
out about those families, you know, it's all very like
you don't know their names or anything, but you know
their location and you know the family that they haven't
(48:02):
so you really understand like the depths of the impact.
That's something like so small. It's not small, but like
something so easy to do. Not easy either, but like
something so selfless can.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Have on this something selfless exactly because the yeah, the
easy small they're huge, big decisions, but there's no alternative
that wouldn't have that impact. So it's kind of like, yeah,
it's hard. The language around it's very hard.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah, And I know like culturally and some religions and
stuff like. Of course there are going to be roadblocks
if your beliefs don't allow you to do that. But
if it's something you haven't thought about or considered before,
I would definitely encourage you to at least read about
it and make that decision because it is just such
a gift. And I'll put the link to the Australian
(48:57):
organ don't register in the show notes, so go and
check it out and read all about it.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Make sure that you're registered as well.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yes, do it, do it, do it.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Thank you so much for joining us today. Please, like
I said at the top, make sure you rate and
review us and share the pod on your socials. Send
us a DM let us know what you want to hear.
You can find us at Kiris, at Kelly Underscore mccaren,
and at AESSR dot pot.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
This episode was produced by myself, Kiri Cells, and Kelly mccaren,
with audio production by the lovely Maddie JOANNU. See you
next week.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
She is bye bye
We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land we're recording
on today. I remember this day, this conversation on the phone.
It was a boy that I had booked up with
through all high school, were really good mates, and he
said these ten words to me. He said, you would
be so much hotter if you started running, And with
(00:24):
that I ran.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit, Repeat, your
unhinged podcast about the madness that is motherhood and everything
in between.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm Kiri Cells and just a heads up that we
are discussing body image, toxic diet culture, and disordered eating today,
so this episode might not be for everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I didn't say my name to know, did you. I
don't even know. I think I'm Kelly McCarron. Anyway, I'm
pretty sure most of our shitters will know that. But
I'm just sitting here going I've got no idea if
I said my name before we start. We do have
a request, go on and please go and review us
on both Apple and Spotify. You can do it while
you're listening to us. It takes less than a minute.
(01:05):
It's a free and very easy way for you to
support the podcast. Now to kick the episode off keys
up for peaking pitch.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I am.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Let's hope it's a less shit.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Oh look, it's less physically.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You're never going to get old.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's never going to get old. Oh, but it is
a bit sad. So just prefacing it with I'm just
going to talk about some grief for my pit and
it is the day as well, so it's a little
bit of a double barrel sadness. But the past week
has been pretty emotional. So today is my mother in
(01:43):
law's birthday, so it's been quite a difficult week just
in the lead up to it. For context, if you're
a new listener, we lost my mother in law really
suddenly at the beginning of the year, and the green
has been incredibly hard to navigate. Also grieving while pregnant,
(02:04):
and it's difficult because you know that these firsts are
going to come up, but you don't necessarily realize how
victim you're.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Going to be and the impact that that first will have.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, and you know it's coming and you can just
feel your yourself kind of like your heart breaking all
over again.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And because it is the first year that you won't
be calling her and getting rude of seeing and yeah,
all of that stuff and that's so heavy.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, And I think it's almost like the lead up
is all the makeup I've just put on is coming.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Off streaming down your face the lead.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Up to it. I wouldn't say it's worse, but you
just you have to live your life, right, So you're
living while your body is processing or bracing for like
this big emotional sadness and kind of just questioning everything
all over again and just really missing that person a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So the problem with grief and time is that all
of these firsts are going to hit you so hard.
Yet I think people are empathetic, but no one can
really understand to what you're going through. And I mean
it's a bit different for you, but for anyone in
a normal job, people at work would be like, you've
(03:29):
had your time off for grief. What do you you know?
You've had your grieving period. Yeah, And it's definitely trying
to navigate all of these new parts of grief that
will continue to find you while yeah, living your life
and working and mothering and everything in between.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, and the mothering particularly has been difficult. Like I
can't tell you the number of times in the last week,
like and rue isn't inherently like a mean hid but
she or just say like I don't like that or something.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And they can be jerked. We can acknowledge that they
can be real jerks.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And it's just broken me. Like I've just been really
emotionally sensitive and she's seen me cry like three times
this week, and I'm just like, fuck, is this like
fucking her up right now?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Like, oh, we've been It's important that she sees that
you're a person with varied emotions just like she is.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh my god, let me say something all the time,
do not go.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
That makes me feel better. You know where I got
this from? Though Mummy's flipping house. She's like, I try
not to cry in front of my kids, And I
was like, fuck, is that bad? Oh my god, I've
just not realized, like this wasn't on my radar. I
don't think then.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I'm not a psychologist and I haven't spoken to one
about this, but I feel like kids need to be
aware that we have different emotions. It's about things. I mean, listen,
you don't want your kids to grow up and go,
oh my mom just cried all the time. Yeah, fucking
but like just like you're happy, you also get angry,
and you also get sad, and you also get tired,
and you get hungry, and you get everything that they get. Yeah,
(05:15):
just totally like a little bit less unhingedly hopefully no exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
So yeah, that was my pit this week, just of
the lead up to that.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, that's a big How are you and Charlie planning
on celebrating her tonight?
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh goodness, I'm probably gonna start crying again.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Sorry, Oh my gosh, what are friends in podcasts for.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
We're actually going out to dinner. We got given about
in the best restaurant, so we're going out to celebrate her. Yeah,
so nice.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
So we are excited for that, and she will be there.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, we feel her for sure, and Rue is like
the spinning image of her, so she is.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It's wild.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Okay, I'm going to compose myself's.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So rough, but I'm so sorry for you and Charlie, Like,
that's just it's just relentless, isn't it Just one thing
after the other you think, oh, you know, it's getting
a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, her birthday, yeah exactly, and then even just like
the leader to the new baby, I think will be
quite hard as well. Yes, that's right, we will get
through it with some tears.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's healthy to get things out instead of internalizing them.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I actually ordered some flowers yesterday for my father in
law and my.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Sister in law, and that's so nice.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, but it was fucking comical. I called up the
florist and was hysterically clearing on the phone to her,
and I said to her, I'm gonna have to text
best to chew the card because I don't think I
can actually say it out loud, like.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's all of these things online. Key.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I wanted to make sure that it got there on time,
like I don't want it to be late, and like
it's you know, they live in the Northern Rivers and
typically things are, yeah, things are a bit slower, so
I just wanted to like make sure everything was good
but far out, like you just don't realize something's.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Gonna affect you.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
And I was just like, this is.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Not like anyway, to be fair, they would probably be
used to it, I hope.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So she was lovely too.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Don't think that it would have been the first time
someone's had a cry on the phone.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, exactly. That's a very good point. Thank you. Okay,
so peak, which is kind of like pit rising because
I'm gonna explain to you. So when we were overseas,
I got a message from this daycare that I've had
rus list on forever.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Says outside playtime.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So much outside playtime, girl, It is like my dream
daycare and not getting sick all the time. Learning shit. Anyway,
they messaged me saying, hey, we've got spots for five
like let me know if you're still interested, and I
was like yes, and so they're like, oh, welcome, rue
can start in January, and I was like fuck yeah.
Like everyone where I live talks about like this daycare
(08:13):
being so amazing, so like we're all ready to move
through in the new year and everything's going great. Then
my girlfriend messages me and her son goes to this
other amazing daycare and was like in it, it had
a message about they've got spots next year for twenty
twenty five. So for some reason, most of the spots
typically will go to siblings, so there's very limited spots, right.
(08:36):
But for some reason, I think some people aren't having
a second, some people are waiting a little bit longer
to have a second. So there's like all of the
space pretty much a whole class bar three spots. And
so I messaged this chick on Monday and went for
a tool yesterday and she offered it me.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So now I have.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Two offers all my two best daycares in my area,
which obviously, because I'm me, is now turning into a
fucking catastrophe because.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I don't know what one to choose exactly. Pretty easy decision.
Wasn't only one of them for three days?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
No, both of them have four?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Oh wow, So okay, see you really are struggling. You've got.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
To help. One is like three minutes further than the other.
They're both away from us, like we have to drive,
so it's much of a muchness. You know, one could
be closer if we do end up buying like this year,
one could be closer to that, But they're three minutes apart,
so it's not enough to like factor in. But I
immediately called Ru's best friend's mum, Beck, who I mentioned
(09:41):
from time time on.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
The pod friend of the pod brother's.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Group's friend of the pod. Beck. We've been trying to
get them into the same daycare basically, and I called
her and I was like, there's spots at this place
like call up. So she emailed and she's doing a
tour tomorrow. So and she can't get into the other
day care because we already tried that and there weren't
any spots. So if she you can get Goldie into
this staycare, then I think that will be the one
(10:05):
because then they can kind of go up together.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And yes, and like, oh how nice to have your
little bestie.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
There exactly, And then it would just be easier, like
we can carpl and like alternate pickups and you know,
all things that'll be actually really helpful as well. But
the good thing is there's not really a bad choice
because both of these daycares have like really great raving
reviews from parents and stuff. So yeah, that's my peaks.
(10:31):
Finally I've got a little bit of luck with the daycare.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
You've got a little no more flood No more floods. Yeah,
high temperatures and not giving a child's water, getting bitten
all the time, well that was just one more stuck
inside like jail exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So it's a good problem to have overall. But I'll
let you know how it go.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
If you grew up in the nineties and early noughties,
and you don't have long standing body image issues. Congratulations,
you're a very rare breed.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yes you are r kel elephant in the room. You don't.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, but I did. I just managed to get myself
out of it.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Okay, Well, that middle aged white man energy continues, we
see as always for millennials, our formative years were spent
in the cultural storm that was the pre.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Internet space and the newly pressure filled world of social media.
It was the perfect storm of body shaming forces like
magazine covers with loose five kilos fast splashed next to
the emaciated bodies of the stars of our favorite TV shows,
weight loss Shakes, the heroin cheek fashion era that involved
(11:47):
things like low rise genes with razor sharp hip bones
protruding like an essential accessory, access to thin spot tumbler sites,
and pro ano rhetoric or TV series with rapidly shrinking stars.
It was uniquely awful. It was a fat phobic time
in cultural history that's left many of us with seriously
screwed up body image issues. Can relate, although being thin
(12:10):
isn't a new concept for us, Like our mothers and
grandmothers grew up using cigarettes to curb their appetites. The
harmful messaging we absorbed from every single direction wasn't the
same at thin worshipping propaganda that they had, so for us,
aesthetics was just one part of the equation. We weren't
taught that being thin was just the standard of beauty,
(12:31):
but it was the physical manifestation of discipline, dedication, and effort.
We were told from every single angle. And as we know,
the older we've got, the more different media messages we've
received every single day that weight was somehow correlated with
morality and value, and that is what has screwed us
up in a way that is entirely distinct from our
(12:52):
prior generations. As an example of this, if someone admits
that they don't exercise if they're thin, it can be
pummed off with like an eye roller, but if they're
in a larger body, it is met with horror and revulsion.
Nothing is more shameful than being lazy or gluttonous, or
the perception of such. And people need to know that
(13:13):
someone has discipline to increase their moral value, and discipline
is synonymous within this. When I was in high school, I,
like many teenagers, was obsessed with the notion of celebrity.
I cried when I met Tamin Cursock and beck Hewitt
Nieka right at the nabiak Thunner Up. I know after them,
I actually cried. And I wasn't even allowed to watch
(13:35):
Home and Away. So it wasn't like I was huge
fans of their work. It was just that I was
so in awe and overwhelmed with the idea of celebrity.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, I was wondering how you even knew of them
because you were locked up in your room reading the
whole time.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I still I was very into celebrity. Of course, my
day to Friday, I would wake up early and run
for one to two hours. Then I would come home
and shake the toaster over a plate or put some
wheat bis crumbs and a bit of milk bowl so
I could convince my parents. I'd eat and breakfast. My
dad would make me vitiweats or rivatas, those yummy things
with vegimite for lunch because I would eat them. And
(14:09):
I would also pack of tuna because I hate tuna,
and I would then just sit and pick at it.
Often I would be so dizzy on the bus on
the way home that I would get home and go
for another jog. Before being so starving, I would generally
eat half a bag of biscuits and then smash my dinner.
Thank goodness, because it's the only reason that I never
got too thin. Yeah, yeah, I'm tall and broad, and
(14:30):
I just wanted to be really small like the celebrities.
I grew up in an era when I was told
that size ten was plus sized and if you wanted
to be a star, you had to be a size zero, which,
to be honest, I still don't understand, like that just
seems impossibly small. And the crazy thing is is that
when we see videos resurface so Tyra Banks calling a
model too big, we look at you.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
We don't see a model. And as much as I
hate and preach about models not having to be stick skinny,
we have to face it that we are in the
fashion industry. You don't fit the clothes, you.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Don't work, Or we see magazine covers where a very
small Jessica Simpson is said to have packed on the pounds.
The horrifying thing is that I never actually saw these
things and thought there was anything wrong with it. Like
I was never shocked or confused or saw that and
thought are they joking like that was just so normal
to me. So, Keith, tell me about your experience and
(15:22):
what you think about all this.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Can I just say, excellent points. I feel like you
were kind of narrating my adolescence and probably a good
chunk of my adult life, which pains me to even admit,
because I just hate that I've wasted so much time
thinking about this and being consumed with this. But for me,
when I'm talking about the details of my experience, and
specifically my experience like my eating disorder, I'm really careful
(15:46):
about what I do and don't say about the details
of how I achieved that or what I did that
was bad, because I feel like people who are struggling
go on to use those things to further this sickness.
They can also be big triggers, and I know this
because I have been that person in the past. But
I can kind of give you a little bit of
(16:07):
like an overview.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I never even considered that from an adult perspective, Like
I just never thought like mentioning different things that I
did could be triggering, even though like as a teenager,
of course I would read different things that people did
and I thought, oh, that's a great idea. I don't know.
I guess I just assumed that because we're all adults
(16:29):
now that it wouldn't have the same impact.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
But I tell you what, even to this day, if
I see a magazine that has like diet tips, I'll
read it. I know to be critical about it, but
like you know, so I'm just careful because I mean,
I did everything. But I think finding out that I
was having a daughter who now know is rude because
she has been born, I thought a lot about my
(16:53):
relationship with my body image, and I really tried to
get the root of it. So I've done a lot
of thinking about kind of how this all came about,
because it's really important for me to try to not
let her waist one minute of her life thinking about
her weight, because I feel like I've spent so long
worrying about my weight that I could I've done it
(17:13):
basically two lifetimes over. But from a really young age,
dieting and talk of dieting was really constant. My birth
mum especially was obsessed with dieting and was always trying
some latest fad that promised you'd shed the kegs, and
that kind of language just was right alongside new words
I was learning, so it was very much. I consumed
(17:36):
it at such a young age, and I was a
bit of a chubby kid. I was very aware that
my body wasn't I want to.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
See so cute too?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Oh my god, I was just all cheeks. I mean,
I'm still like a cheeks now, but I was so cute.
But I remember, actually, you still have really good cheeks.
I know that's succulent me Philip for more. But I
do remember feeling really embarrassed and all of shame whenever
I had to get changed, you know, like just out
with like an aunts or uncle with the other cousins
(18:06):
and having to get changed. I like really felt that shame.
I didn't understand necessarily why, but I remember feeling it
around my body and wanting to cover up. But fast
forward to year eight, I had this like massive growth
spurt and I dropped a bunch of weight and I
didn't really feel that different. But the thing that stood
out to me the most at that time and like
(18:26):
reinforced that I should feel like proud, was how people
treated me. And this is so lame, but this is
literally what happened. So in the space of a year,
I had moved into a different group at high school,
and then I started dating the hot guy of the grade,
so like completely like something out of a teen movie.
And that's so lame and I'm cringing, But that reward
(18:49):
for my body looking differently was like so obvious at
that time, and I felt like that really loud laid
the foundation in my psyche of like the value that's
society puts on people with smaller bodies, all this idea
of like thin or skinny privilege, which I'll get to
in a second, but I would say that the trigger
of my eating disorder. And that's fucked because I remember
(19:12):
this day, this conversation on the phone. It was a
boy that I had like hooked up with through all
high school, are really good mates, and he said these
ten words to me. He said, you would be so
much hotter if you started running. And with that I ran.
I ran every day, I ran very far, and I
became completely obsessed. And then you know, around the same time,
(19:36):
the invention of the Internet was just kind of like
where I got my PhD in eating disorders, Like if
you put lists together of the things like I have
done it. But the really sad thing about that is
that all of those tricks that I practiced to be
thin for so many years. I now live with the
repercussions of and I have the side effects of today.
So I have a bunch of food intolerances. I now
(19:58):
have ibs. I have a really incredibly lazy boo, and
those are my daily reminders of how poorly I treated
my body. And it is heartbreaking, like heartbreaking that these
are all things that are self inflicted. But I think
a lot about the turning point, because even though I'm
not cured, I don't think I ever will be.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You've gotten a lot better, like even when we met,
much better that period between you and your late twenties
to now, you've changed so much.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Thank you so much because I try to remember that,
because I do go through bad periods of course still,
but they're few and far are between. Is that the same?
I don't even know, you know, they're not as frequent,
and I feel like I often think to myself, like, wow,
you've come so far. And it was very much when
I started working on a daily entertainment podcast with a
(20:51):
dear friend of mine who's just the most incredible, intelligent person,
amazing journalist Laura Brodnick We worked on this podcast together
for four years, and it was my job basically every
day to dissect celebrity culture and entertainment, and I had
to critically examine things that were happening at a time
when collectively we were all re examining a lot of things,
(21:11):
but specifically diet culture or toxic dyt culture and how
Hollywood largely perpetuated these ideals. And that's when, for the
first time, I came across the term that I mentioned
a little bit before, which is thin or skinny privilege
and also pretty privilege. So when I discovered the idea
of thin privilege, it fucked me up, but in a
(21:33):
good way because suddenly I was like, Wow, I realized
that I was perpetuating the stigma around wait as well
as fat phobia by kind of buying into this thin privilege.
And once I understood that, and I also have to
shout up Lucy Neville because I know that she's going
to be listening like she's from jen Z. Once I
(21:54):
became friends with her specifically as well, I was finally
able to improve my body image because I literally had
this deeper understanding of this phenomenon that had kind of
like taken hold of me. There's something that was like
so tied to our culture and our value and our worth.
And then I had someone younger than me going like,
why do you say that stuff to yourself? Like that's
(22:15):
so crazy, Like can you hear what you're saying to yourself?
And then Lucy would always say, well, I'm bigger than you,
so am I fat? And I'd be like, oh, you're not,
Like it used to be not a youth thing.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I used to say that to people all the time too.
I'd be like, or if someone would be like, oh,
so and so's a bit big, I'm like, I'm bigger
than that person, and you're saying it in a negative way,
so what do you say about me? And I also
what you're discussing with Lucy, it makes me think of
you know, whenever a friend is being really rude to themselves,
it kisses me off because I'm like, don't fucking say
(22:49):
that about yourself. If you wouldn't say it about your
friend or someone you love, why are you saying it
about yourself? One hundred percent like treat yourself kindly. Of
course we all have bad days, but don't treat yourself
like shit. Don't treat yourself like someone you really dislike.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, I agree. I wanted to quickly sorry, and I've
just been gasbagging for so long, but I wanted to
quickly explain thin privilege using the words of someone way
smarter than I am. And I found this article that
was written in twenty nineteen, and this is I think
that the term was coined by a chick on Twitter
who is tweeting about thin privilege. And it was as
we were kind of like understanding like the privilege of wealth,
(23:27):
the privilege of race, all of that kind of stuff,
and then thin privileges ideal came up. So this is
from a Sydney Morning Herald article thin privilege is real
and it's time we fest up. It was written by
Elana Seltzer. Hopefully they got her last name correct, so
it reads the thin and thin privilege is not about
being supermodel skinny, but being at a weight that means
that you're not subjected to judgment and harassment from strangers.
(23:49):
It means that you can go into almost any clothes
shop and find something that will fit. You can eat
a hamburger in public without people clearly judging your decision.
You can wear something figure hugging without people's sneaks at you,
and like, I just added the sin exactly what you
said before kel is say that you don't work out,
and it's okay. You know. The article goes on to say,
when I speak about thin privilege, I'm talking about the
(24:12):
advantages that thin people in Western culture experience, such as
being assumed healthy and having a wide array of clothes available,
as well as a body that aligns with dominant ideas
of what is attractive.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I'm so clever and so clever because it's so true
when people comment, like on someone's body on Instagram, going unhealthy,
I'm sorry, are you that person's doctor?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
How can you assume that? Of course there is some face?
But skinny does not mean healthy. I wrote a list
of pop culture references I was having a little think
about God memory Lane, and I want to read them
to you, and I think that, like every single one
of them, you'll probably go on my own. The discourse
(24:58):
around Britney' stomach and her stomach in general, remember everyone
was like a thousand crunches a day. Who didn't try
to do a thousand crunches a day? That's ridiculous yep,
the way that the Sweet Valley Twins size was always mentioned,
and it was mentioned everywhere, and on that note hand
spanned waste, which that was the description for every leading
(25:19):
lady in books. Celery is calorie negative food. Kate Moss,
nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. The chubby girl
in Love actually the god, I know what.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
You know, Natalie who works there, the chubby girl who
would we call her chubby?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I think there's a pretty sizable ass there, yes, sir,
huge thighs, the Kate Winslet jokes around Titanic Bridget Jones
being called fat and like being the larger lady in
the bunny outfit. The bunny outfit stands out to me everywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
It looked like a common prostitute until that was actually
the point.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
She has one hell of a body, I know, I know,
Oh my god, that she was considered big, like.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, it's actually rude, Like she looked so fucking banging
in that bunny costume.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Alia McBeal Friends Dawson's Creek, Buffy, the oc where stars
just shrunk before our very eyes.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Wait, Ali mcbeill was so bad, like Porscha to ROSSI
I remember she came out years later and talked about
her eating disorders, and they all had them, yea, but
she was the only one really to ever address it,
And I just thought, imagine being an actress on that set.
It would have been terrible.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
The Rachel Zoe aesthetic, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And then New Caffany every hour that you can and
drink lots of water.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And Paris Hilton in low rise jeans. Those photos are
just like imprinted on my mind.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
The way I worshiped Rachel Zoe and all of those same.
I mean, I still do think that she's I love
her style. I don't love her aesthetic, but I love
her style. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah. When I remind you all that, does it make
you think that maybe things have gotten better? Because sometimes
I worry that it hasn't, especially when I think about
things like our current Zimbic obsession, or the AI trickery
with face tune, or just like the exact same problems
but masquerading as wellness.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Oh the wellness thing. Yeah, for sure, Well on a zenpic,
I do think it was like quite a step backwards.
But I think only really for certain generations, like mainly
the generations that spent their whole lives trying to be
a size zero when their body type was not that,
but the fact that this was like now achievable. I mean,
(27:42):
I understand the appeal when you've spent your whole life
trying to be a size and then there's an option,
like I don't blame people for doing.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
That, but I think it's hugely problematic. I think it's fine. Yeah,
if people need it for health reasons, fine, but I
don't don't want my kids to walk out in a
world where everyone's a tiny size when that isn't how
the world is like.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
And that's where I think we're lucky, right because I
do see growth and change in young It doesn't mean
we would.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Never take a zem pic they would be like why.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I don't think it means that diet culture doesn't like
suddenly exist. Of course, a new cohort of kids, right,
and they're going to have other problems that are going
to affect their generation way more so. It just means
that they aren't the only voices in the room, and
often they're not the loudest. So I think it's just
more balanced or more balanced in the way of being
more positive or neutral about bodies like, this is my body.
(28:41):
I'm showing up every day and my body, and I
think that is where it is. I think before it's
been greatly unbalanced with media, with culture, with society, everything
like that. But suddenly we're kind of flipped it on
its head. So I've got a lot of hope for
our kids.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Me too, Me too. I also didn't realize that dit
culture is rooted in racism. I had no idea. And
it's funny how many things that are perceived as okay
in Western culture and just the norm actually are because
I've talked to you before about other different things that
I read studies about. But this article by Marissa Crane
(29:19):
was called dit culture is rooted in racism, white supremacy,
and colonialism, and I knew that it was obviously directly
connected to fat phobia. I didn't realize that fat phobia
then had roots in the Transatlantic slave trade. So Marissa says,
white European colonists labeled Black people as gluttonous, undisciplined, and
(29:41):
hyper sexual, and held that their love of food made
them fat. Meanwhile, the colonists considered themselves the superior race
because of their self control and moderation, which caused them
to be thin. Soon, fatness became associated with racial inferiority
and immorality in the United States, and subsequently, bodyweight and
(30:01):
size became a way for people to distinguish between slaves
and non slaves, with a common belief being that fat
people didn't deserve to be free. When I asked our shitters,
ninety eight percent said that they had body image issues
growing up and were affected by toxic diet culture, and
ninety percent said they still suffered the same issues. And
(30:22):
that makes me so fucking sad, because that's an awful
lot of fabulous shitters walking around the world not feeling
great about themselves.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
It doesn't surprise me, though, I was like, if you
think about girlfriends, would that surprise you.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I don't really talk about that stuff with my girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
But just because you don't talk about it doesn't mean
it doesn't exist, you know, Like I mean, if it does,
it's more so.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well. Me and my sister often say that we're like,
why don't we have worth body image issues? Because our
mum honestly like, yeah, And which is funny because sixty
three percent of SIT has said that they've said something
negative about their appearance in front of their child. But
ninety eight percent said their care, which is super important
because my mum, I mean, she didn't know any better.
(31:05):
But we grew up in a house where she was
always trying to lose weight completely. She did the fat
Blaster pills and we would just laugh because we'd be
like fat bluster and she'd do intimate fasting and she'd
do all the remember the real replacement shakes. Oh yeah,
exist those weird exercise things from the infomercials, like.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh my god, the infomercials blaster and like the away.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yes, she poured them all. So me and my sister
always like, why do we not have worse body imagicies?
Because you should, but you don't, which is great. Oh
it's that middle aged white man.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Thing coming through, coming through shrunk.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
We asked people for their thoughts and experiences, like so
when I did a little survey to the shit is,
I could not believe how much much of the toxicity
stems from within the home. So we can blame like
it's funny. We can blame media all we want. We
can be like goddamn a I and the bloody Kardashians
(32:11):
or whatnot, But our issues actually seem to primarily come
from the language our parents use, which is why it
is so important that we try and break the mold
for our own kids. This got the most responsible we've
ever gotten from a survey, so I'll only read some.
We'll use some of them for socials because it's just
so interesting. People had so much to say about this topic.
(32:35):
So the first open ended question was to tell us
about your experiences with self image and your perception of
toxic diet culture. And then the second question was what
are you implementing in your house to help produce negative
self talk slash body image in your child slash children.
I love that we're going the problem, but we're having
solutions exactly. Well, there's no point just winging. We need
(32:58):
to come up with ways to make sure that it's
a little bit better. So, okay, my grandma weighing me
at visits and telling me how much I had to
lose by the next visit, the shame. I'm very much
aware on what we say and how we say things
are impacting young children. What to avoid saying. There are
so many more positive things that we can focus on
(33:19):
that doesn't involve the way someone looks. Yes, I can
never remember a time that both my mom and grandma
weren't on some sort of a diet, constantly talking about
their weight and ideal weight and how fed up they
were with their bodies, despite both being very healthy, straight
sized women. During my teen years, when I was taller
(33:39):
and bigger than average, I was constantly wishing to be
smaller and thinner like the popular girls at school. I
actually don't remember too much of the diet culture in
the media, apart from that fat photo of Jessica Simpson
and she's put fat in like commas because it's quite ear.
But I acutely felt the lack of body positivity in
my family, and I still it's not just media. My
(34:02):
mum still was always on a diet exercise regime, always
up and down, and still comments on people like what
they wear because they shouldn't wear this because of that
body part, or they should wear this because of this
body part. Being tall and curvy, there was never anyone
like me on TV unless they were an athlete, but
you never usually saw them dressed up. You always just
(34:24):
saw them like in athletic gear, and that's what I
d most of the time. My mother is the biggest
culprit of forcing toxic diet culture on me. She recently
said to me, I can't wait for you to start
losing your baby weight so we can share diet tips.
My son was six months old at the time. He's
now thirteen months. I have yet to share dieting tips
with her because I'm trying to love my body and
(34:46):
respect the time it needs to heal after pregnancy, birth
and raising a baby.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Ah. Oh my god, Oh my god. That is I
feel for her. Go her, though, stay to her, honestly
to She's obviously had a fucking generation of this said
to her her mom. But like, good on you for
recognizing that you've birthed the baby just over a year ago.
(35:11):
Like take your time, girl, whatever your body looks like,
that's your body. Like it's fine.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I've always thought I was fat, even before I got fat.
The amount of crazy diets I saw my mom do
was unreal. She's doing better now that she's ever done,
which is good.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
But like good, that's really good.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It's so hard for people. It's just the amount of
these responses that involve the person's mother or parents, but
mother in particular. Oh my goodness, if one thing everyone
can take away from this episode. It's actually and I
(35:50):
didn't even know this, and I was doing like I
thought that I knew this, but I would have blamed
the media mostly. Actually, it's what's happening in home, and
it's a bit of a cop out to blame the media.
Of course the media have a lot to answer for,
But where.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Are those mums getting the pressure from it. They're getting
it from the media, from the world telling them to
be a certain way.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I know, but we now know better, So it's our
job to change that for our kids. Our moms didn't
know any better.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
We do, Yeah, definitely, And I think we're lucky in
that media is different now as well, so independently kids
will have more representation and diverse exactly all of that stuff.
So all of those things working together is going I
mean it already has.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I'll pop some of the tips because we've got heaps
of like different things that people are implementing in their
house to reduce that negative self talk and body image.
It's mostly just about like talking about food neutraally, don't
commenting on people's bodies, and like not giving your child
an appearance related compliment.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yes, this is a huge one for me. Like I
never call ru beautiful. I never comment on that stuff,
like I just don't want that to be an important thing.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
I think reading through the responses made me deaf definitely
realize that I need to get better with my language
around food at home. Yeah, because that's like, oh, it's
so hard with toddlers because I'm like and also, you
know me, I've got such a sweet tooth.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Oh same, but I'm like, bro, you can't live on sugar,
just because I know we need to do a follow
up episode on like with a kid's dietician or something around,
like or a kids suck and a dietitian around like
what the yae language is, because we do want to
say you shouldn't eat a chocolate bar, but we want
(37:35):
to say it in the right way.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Like, you know, the advice is always you know you
sometimes food and always food, And it's like, have you
met a toddler They want the sometimes food all of
the time and you can't help it slip into no,
that's a treat, like you're not having a treat for
breakfast or I don't use the word bad food to
be fair, but I definitely say treat all the time.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Well, do you know, what's actually so annoying is that
I have the biggest sweet tooth and Rue just does
knock give a shit about sugar, and so I'm always
trying to do shit with her, like I want to
take her out for a treat, and she's rather shit
about it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And I'm just like, can you just be a normal kid,
and like, she's so funny, I'll come out with you.
You can take me out for ice creams Helena.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I often just go by myself with her and get
myself on ice cream, and I'm just like, this is
not as fun as sharing it with someone else.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
And do you feel a little bit ridiculous that you're
the adult with the ice cream and your kids make
make better choices?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yes? Yes, yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Make better choices. Do you have any final thoughts? Because
I have just been rambling this episode I found it
so interesting, But I did say to Key, I was like,
I'm gonna do this episode because I feel like you're
still very don't need to be triggled by all of
the different information and articles out there.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I'm glad that you did take the lead on
the set for sure, or because I think that to
be honest, and I think we are going to do
this as a follow up episode. I think that it's interesting.
With my first pregnancy, I really embraced my changing body
and everything like that, but this time around it was
really different, and I found myself like with a lot
of negative talk, which has been really hard.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Do you think that that could also have something to
do with that you're feeling worse in general mentally because
of the grief.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
I think it's a number of things. I think it's
not being able to exercise, like, yeah, understanding, like saying
to myself, hey, you're growing a human. This pregnancy is different.
You are allowed to rest, like you don't have to
move your body if you're not feeling up to it.
But then it's also like, well, the result of not
moving my body is that mentally I feel really down.
(39:49):
So it's kind of like the cycle of like which
then in turn, you know, you look different in clothes,
and I was, you know, quicker to get out of
genes time around, and I was really left with not
a lot of options.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Which is why you wore your fish clothing.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
No, the fisherman invest is Sheikh Kelly, even though you
don't think so. So the point I was trying to
make was I'm glad that you took the leader on
this at this point in time, because I think that
I'm definitely in one of those moments where I've become
a little bit critical of my image, but I also
am not. Like the interesting thing about it is you're
aware of it. I'm aware of it, and then I'm
(40:28):
also aware of the fact. Well, I think that I'm
quite evolved in the body neutrality space, like you've gotten
a good day, right, But I worry about women who aren't,
and I worry about you know, pregnant women or women
who are raising kids and them still struggling. So I
(40:49):
think it's an important conversation to talk about, and hopefully
we do do that.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Definitely listen this topic. There's probably like bloody twenty episodes
in it. I'm glad that you are open about it, though,
because if you weren't, I would probably And like I said,
it's not really something that me and my friends talk about, Like,
I find it very hard to understand that someone that
has so many interesting things about them and so much
(41:17):
to live for, like, would waste too much time worrying
about that. And that makes me sound evangelical, But he
can back it up that I genuinely ninety five percent
of the time do not have any body image issues.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
And that is such like honestly cal that is such
a good thing to have. It's really difficult to understand
when you haven't had to diagnose eating disorder, about how
much of a hold it can really take on your life.
I mean, people die from this every day, and which
is kind of show how severe it is, like it
(41:52):
is an illness, oh and oh absolutely, and there are
varying degrees of it. But I think that it's just
proven by the number of shitter is that responded. Actually,
they were saying like it has been something that has
always been there and changes only really just started to happen.
So we are getting there. But I do love talking
(42:14):
about this because I think.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
That I love juicy stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah. Well, I think that the reason why I finally
turned a corner was through the conversations that I had
about it and challenging my beliefs and challenging why I
think a certain way, and just being exposed to a
different way of thinking, Like if you're living in an
echo chamber of people talking about their weight and their
diets and boring fitting into this, but that's what you're
going to believe. I think it's really important, like to
(42:39):
broaden the conversations that you're having, or what you're listening
to or things like that, because that is what changes
your actual psyche around how you think about things like
body weight and type culture and body neutrality and just
living in a body without any kind of value attached
to it.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Before we move on to recommendations, I want to ask
you a rhetorical question. Well, everyone's playing a long at home. Yeah,
imagine the life you could live if you just allowed
yourself to weigh what you weighed?
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, wow, all.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Right, recommendations on the topic of today, I would like
to recommend Loucinder Price aka Froom's new book All I
Ever Wanted to Be Hot? If you've enjoyed this conversation,
because oh my goodness, it was just like I also
listened to it like on audible, and she is reading it,
and it's honestly like listening to that Australian accent someone
(43:43):
you know. I think she's around my age. Actually I
don't know, I think so, I assume. So it was
honestly just like reading my own experience in high school
and oh my goodness, I just yeah, it was amazing.
So that's my recommendation has got a very important one.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yes, So at the top of the episode, I talked
about it being my mother in law's birthday and something
that we are really passionate about as a family is
just raising awareness for the Australian Organ Donor Register.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Can you just explain to people, because it shocked me
and I think it would shock a lot of other
people how hard it is. It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
So a lot of the time because people aren't registered.
It comes down to the family at the end of
someone's life who have to make that decision. And it's
obviously a very emotional time. So even if you do
get the family's approval to do that, so many things
(44:46):
have to go right, like the organs have to be
in good shape, the match has to be in good shape.
There's paperwork that has to be done, and things can
get delayed. It's just it's honestly a mirror call when
an organ donation does happen.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
How many did you say had been donated successfully in
the last year when you talked to that doctor.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
It was something tiny and I'm sorry sorry that shocked
me start, but it was like in one year, I
think they had maybe eight, and you just think of
organ donation as being this thing.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I just thought it was something. I thought eight would
happen an hour. Like I just assumed everyone was an
organ donator and that organ donating was just something simple.
So this is so important.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Process changed as well, Like I know, when I was
younger in Queensland, going for your driver's license, you just
tick a box, but now it's all been centralized and
you have to go to Services Australia dot gov do
AU and actually register, like it's a national register where
you can record your organ in tissue donation decision, which
means that they haven't on a file. You have to
be over sixteen to do it, which most of our
(45:54):
listeners definitely would be. But I think because it changed,
even if you had previously ticked a box on whatever
kind of driver's license form or something, that actually took
away the register that you are registering for organis tissue donations.
So I think that something that really stood out to
me was just so how grateful the people at the
(46:18):
organization were and how much just how precious they know
that that gift can be.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Oh it's the most heartbreaking gift. I just finished reading
a book where the mother had to, you know, choose
to donate her daughter's organs, and it was so horrible
because I was reading it through the lens of the
mum and she's like, oh my god, these people just
asking me these questions like it's so insensitive, blah blah blah.
(46:47):
But it's like, but they actually just they're just doing
their job. They have to. That would be the hardest job,
but they would be so grateful for the amount of
lives that they can save.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, exactly, And honestly, like the amount of lives that
are touched by a loved ones's organ donation is just incredible.
And when you lose someone really in any way, whether
it's like suddenly or a long illness or whatever, like
(47:18):
you just need there to be like some happy news,
you know. So for us, it's a family, it's been
really important that we made that decision and and it's beautiful.
There's like a little organ donation ceremony happening in the
next couple of months in Sydney and Newcastle for the
families of organ donator. So just even like recognizing that,
(47:41):
like even though you'll love, especially like how they like
live on you know, yeah because they do, Yeah, they do,
and just how thankful those families are. You also find
out about those families, you know, it's all very like
you don't know their names or anything, but you know
their location and you know the family that they haven't
(48:02):
so you really understand like the depths of the impact.
That's something like so small. It's not small, but like
something so easy to do. Not easy either, but like
something so selfless can.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Have on this something selfless exactly because the yeah, the
easy small they're huge, big decisions, but there's no alternative
that wouldn't have that impact. So it's kind of like, yeah,
it's hard. The language around it's very hard.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Yeah, And I know like culturally and some religions and
stuff like. Of course there are going to be roadblocks
if your beliefs don't allow you to do that. But
if it's something you haven't thought about or considered before,
I would definitely encourage you to at least read about
it and make that decision because it is just such
a gift. And I'll put the link to the Australian
(48:57):
organ don't register in the show notes, so go and
check it out and read all about it.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Make sure that you're registered as well.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yes, do it, do it, do it.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Thank you so much for joining us today. Please, like
I said at the top, make sure you rate and
review us and share the pod on your socials. Send
us a DM let us know what you want to hear.
You can find us at Kiris, at Kelly Underscore mccaren,
and at AESSR dot pot.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
This episode was produced by myself, Kiri Cells, and Kelly mccaren,
with audio production by the lovely Maddie JOANNU. See you
next week.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
She is bye bye
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.