Exhaustion: The War at Home

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello everybody.

(00:07):
Welcome back to Educational Warfare.
I'm Dr. Jordan Lauer.
Today we're talking about the war at home with exhaustion.
We're in episode two here.
Really appreciate we're talking about all the things that we talked about, the work
that brings us, that affects us and causes exhaustion.
But today we're going to talk about how it comes into our home and with me is my partner,

(00:31):
Dr. Ryan Jackson.
How are you doing today, Ryan?
Hey, good morning, Dr. J. Excited here man, to really dig in and talk about this one.
This episode has got me fired up this morning.
We're talking about the war at home.
One of the biggest arguments for educators is it's the kind of job that truly never stops.

(00:51):
It never ceases.
And we're going to address that today with some practical tips, strategies, of course,
our opinions on how to combat these things.
But very excited about this morning's episode.
Absolutely.
You know, our last episode, just to kind of cover what we talked about for anybody joining
us and thank you for being here.
Remember, you can email our show at educationalwarfare.pod at gmail.com.

(01:15):
In our first episode, we talked about things like the state of modern education, our workload,
class sizes, losing faith in yourself because you're not feeling like you're doing a great
job.
We talked about politics creeping in and grooming possibly and what students are really learning
in classes.
It's a great article by Peter Green of Forbes with that.
We also talked about going deep on the information within our classes and how those biases can

(01:40):
creep in and how all teachers have a way of fighting those.
We covered current students and their makeup, cell phones in the classroom and how that
can be sometimes driving that behavior.
We also talked about teenage development and those that allure of cell phones and why it's
not exactly they're trying to do something bad.
They're just maybe feeling that pull.

(02:02):
And then in our mailbag episode, Ryan, I was riding solo and dude, we had such great emails
from people.
We talked about our personalities and everything and we had some really great connections.
So love you guys kind of talking to us.
So anything you hear here, anything you hear in the mailbag episode, feel free to email
us again.
You can also find us on X at eduwarfare.

(02:22):
So we are just ready to talk about how all those things and all the things we talked
about in episode one and in the mailbag can come into our home.
And like you said, that exhaustion follows us there.
This job never stops.
Hey, George, for the mailbag episode, man, let's just remind our listeners, you know,
the idea behind this podcast was, you know, no platitudes, no empty rhetoric.

(02:48):
You know, just none of that rose colored glasses that does not get to the root issues we're
really trying to uncover.
That's not to say we're negative NANCYs.
We're certainly not.
In fact, you know, I live by that learned optimism mindset.
So we are here to look for those strategies, those tactics.
We are here to help.
But we want to hear from you, even the spicy questions.

(03:10):
I mean, even the hard challenges, the pushback, don't be afraid, you know, to send us in that
kind of information.
You know, I believe in that kind of mindset, that radical candor, that if you will not
address it directly, then really no progress is happening.
So send us all of those kind of messages.

(03:31):
We want to hear from you directly.
Yeah, I do.
I do love that, Ryan, because we talked a little bit about this, that teachers are naturally
nice.
We don't like to rock the boat because what we do is a good thing.
So we're sometimes afraid, again, to sound like negative NANCYs and we never want this
show to sound like that.
Like we love the profession.
We love the teachers.
This is about those things that sometimes we're feeling, but we're just afraid to talk

(03:55):
about for whatever reason.
Yeah.
So if you have a comment that's just, you know, it could controversial, spicy, you know,
something that maybe makes people feel a little like, ooh, that's a little weird to talk about.
That's what we're here for.
If we get it out, if we talk about it, if we start discussing it, that's how you alleviate
some of these feelings.
That's how you take the profession forward is that we talk about issues.

(04:17):
That's how you cause change.
So I love that you're doing that.
Yeah, please send us in anything that you have like that.
Love to hear it.
I love to talk about it.
I love to discuss it.
First episode, we finished up on some misconceptions teachers have.
It can be new teachers or any teachers.
So let's real quickly, we have one that kind of filtered into home.
So let's jump in real quick and talk about some of those, the last one of those misconceptions

(04:39):
that may have that really goes to this episode, the war at home with exhaustion.
So let's talk about that real quick.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, and I, you know, again, I see this from both sides because I also live with an
educator, you know, a 19 year teaching veteran.

(05:01):
She teaches ELA currently junior level English at a massive high school here in middle Tennessee
C. So I see this person who's teaching English.
She's done it for years.
She's coming home.
She's got the assignments.
She's got things to grade.
So I certainly understand what that looks like up close, but I've also watched this

(05:24):
person, you know, my wife, Dr. Leticia Sk Jackson, learn how to balance that workload
and really helped me as an administrator, you know, gleaning insights from her on how
she manages that homework workload, bringing that stuff inside the home and then how that
helped me kind of create a sense of balance or try to create a sense of balance for myself

(05:47):
as an administrator.
But it's definitely, I mean, I believe a, a crisis that affects so many teachers of
where to stop the day officially and separate into your home life.
Yeah.
What we're talking about here for this last misconception that and Dr. Jackson talked
about it great there with all of us bringing things home is the misconception is that you

(06:10):
must grade everything you assign.
And I feel this is really strong.
Actually was just talking to a great, awesome new teacher in my building.
I actually taught him as a seventh grader.
So that makes me feel very, very, very old, but that's fine.
It's okay.
And now he's, you know, I walked in the first day sitting there and I was like, oh my gosh,

(06:32):
I taught you what are you doing here?
And he was like, oh, I work here now.
I was like, cool.
I'm going to go cry in the bathroom because how old I am.
Yeah, that's a strange.
It is, but he's a great kid and professional is already killing it.
And you know, it's one thing we, I was just talking to him home that you have to grade
everything.
And he was like, yeah, kind of feel that.
Like I don't want anything to not be important.

(06:53):
You know, practice is important.
Every assignment should have some type of feedback, of course.
And that's what we kind of think with grades.
Like we don't ever want a kid to do something and then just be like, oh, that was for nothing.
Uh, we want to give them a grade or something to make sure that they have that.
But I'm telling you right now, new teachers, veteran teachers who may be feeling this,
but just be afraid to kind of accept that because they feel like they're not really

(07:16):
doing their job.
If they don't grade it, you will exhaust yourself.
If you're grading two assignments a day for seven classes, right?
Like that's going to happen.
It's just going to pile up.
And then are you really grading it accurately?
Are you doing spot checks?
You know, when we talk about that feedback, you can do feedback in small chunks.
You can be, it could be objective.

(07:36):
It can be actionable, uh, and it can let students know where they are in the relationship, the
mastery target without a grade.
It doesn't have to be something like that.
It could just be a quick check to where you assess how your kids are doing.
And then you kind of go back to the whole class just from looking over them.
What are your thoughts on grading everything, Ryan?
Yeah, to me, to me, man, this gets into that, that idea of the art and the science of teaching.

(08:00):
And here's what I mean by that.
You know, today's kids are beyond pragmatic.
They're very practical.
They're like, what is in this for me?
What do I get out of this?
Now, by and large, man, that's a byproduct of the system that they've been educated in,
in the world that they've been raised in.

(08:23):
So, man, this is, this is a struggle for me.
I mean, I think it's a really a bit of friction here because the kids are like, why, why are
we doing this?
What are we getting out of this?
So now as an educator, you're going to try to teach this more complex idea of, Hey, we're
practicing here to sharpen our saw.

(08:45):
However, it does not quantify in terms of a grade.
So dot, dot, dot.
And you're kind of left in this nebulous void of, okay, so tell me again while we're doing
this, okay, I got it.
I'm practicing to get better for a thing that you will measure at some point, but we're
not measuring it today.

(09:07):
We're just practicing it.
I mean, it creates this very interesting feedback loop between teacher and students that if
you're not careful can become unmanageable.
I mean, this swell of students then becomes, well, we're not doing this because you're
not measuring it.
So I don't know, man.
I've certainly seen that play out both ways.
It goes back to that art and science.

(09:27):
So then it becomes the artful teacher who is able to inspire their students to do it
this way to meet an end result that is quantified and measured.
But man, that's such a gray area and asking new teachers, young teachers, inexperienced
teachers to be that artful and masters of that domain early on.

(09:53):
Man, that's challenging because it's just so easy to default and say, Hey, everything
I put out there, we grade friends.
You'll see it in the grade books.
I'll make sure it gets done.
It's definitely a balance.
I think that you have to make sure that I think a big part of that too, as I'm thinking
about it is, you know, students naturally, they ask that we've all had that question
of as soon as you pass them out, Dr. Lauer.

(10:14):
Yeah.
Is this for a grade?
And then you're like, well, I really wasn't thinking about using it for a grade.
This all happening in your head as they asked.
I wasn't thinking about using it for a grade.
It was just going to be kind of a quick thing to make sure you're getting it is almost
like a extra notes if you want, like, Hey, you're taking in this information.
But you know, as you think of that, you have to also, you can't just say, no, I'm just

(10:35):
going to, you can't give them that explanation because the teenage brain has a utility thing.
I've remember we talked in the first episode, they're lining up all the things that are
important to them.
So if this doesn't affect them, then they're saying, well, then why would I put fidelity
into it?
Why would I work hard on it?
Because I can quickly do it if it's not for a grade and then get to things that are important

(10:56):
to me.
They want that novelty, right?
They, that's a part of the teenage brain is that's why they always want to try new things
or possibly do things that we would consider dangerous.
You know, as you get older, you learn how to say no more, you know, like the older you
get, you know, and you're like 17, your friends are like, Hey, we're going to go sit in the
parking lot of Walmart, hang out all night.
You're like, yeah, I want to hang out.
You know, now it was like a 30 year old, my friends are like, Hey, we're going to go do

(11:18):
this.
I'm like, nah, I'm good.
Or stay home.
Right.
Because we don't seek that novelty as much.
We know what's important to us.
But teens don't.
Jordan, this, but this comes back to exhaustion, bro, because ultimately these are the kinds
of conversations that are happening almost daily in classrooms that grate you over time.

(11:40):
I mean, they just exhaust you because at the end of the day, it's ultimately for nothing.
I mean, we're just in this constant battle, this push and pull of, Hey, we're doing this.
We need to do this.
I don't want to do this.
I don't want to do that, but we need to do it because it's good for this reason.
Tell me again why it's good for that reason.
I mean, man, that kind of back and forth constantly is I think what most people don't understand

(12:07):
about general education.
You know, this is what we deal with on a daily basis where it's not extreme.
I mean, we're not talking about violence.
You know, we're not talking about being insulted, but we are talking about this constant wearing
down of my willpower to fight this collective pushback of what we're trying to do.

(12:29):
I mean, that stuff is exhausting and grading fits right into that matrix.
Yeah.
And that's, that's the thing too, is that grading is, you know, for me being in the
classroom, you create a lesson, you teach the lesson, you field all the feedback from,
you know, those little micro conversation you're talking about, is this for a grade?

(12:52):
Why do we have to do this?
You know, you're constantly checking like, Hey, as you make this, you know, we make assignments
that reflect our lesson.
Like it hits the key points you want them to know.
And now you're walking around also being like, Hey, number two is really important because
we created that through our lens of like, how can they get this information?
And again, to them, it's that novelty.

(13:12):
They're like trying, like it's a checkbox, get this worksheet done or get this activity
done.
Move on to the thing I want to do.
Where we look at it through the lens of you had this lesson, here's this activity.
This will really nail in these ideas I want you to have for the final assessment for the
EOC at the end of the year for the next activity, but they don't see it that way.

(13:37):
So then you're also walking around making sure they're putting again, fidelity into
number two, because number two in your mind, as you create less like that's like the crux
right there.
There it is.
Like if you gave that, but I love that.
I love that piece you just said there.
Let's don't lose that.
I'm going to go back there for a second.
You said they don't see it that way in quotes.
They don't.
So I'm assuming they in this case is students, right?

(13:57):
So students don't see it that way.
I mean, let's just dig in on that for a second.
They don't see what that way I know where you're going, but I want to, I want to clarify
this so we can really get into the different mindsets and attitudes of what we're talking
about, you know, it's cause it's cause it boils down to this, which comes to exhaustion
teachers versus students.

(14:19):
So they don't see it that way.
Students don't see what that way.
I think they don't see that again, we're coming through different lenses again to them.
It's a checkbox.
Like do this, get the grade.
You're seeing that as extension of the lesson.
Right?
So when I talked about this subject, when I was doing maybe a quick little like breakdown

(14:39):
of a PowerPoint, like quick little lecture or something to make them get it, we see it
as, oh, this is an extension of that to where they see it.
Oh, the teacher is done talking.
They have handed me this activity.
This is now something I need to finish.
They don't see it as an extension of that learning.
So then they just try to get it done.

(15:01):
You know how many times, I mean, when your time in the classroom, they ask, or you ask
something on a worksheet or a writeup or focusing on something and you're walking around kind
of talking to them, looking at it and you see that they're just given the bare minimum
for a question.
Oh, of course.
And let's dig in on that for a second because I'm a former ELA teacher.

(15:23):
So addiction is important to me.
You've used the word extension a couple of times.
So the teacher sees it as this extension.
You know, it's an enhancement to the lesson.
We're sharpening your salt.
The kids see it as extra.
Dude, this is extra that you're asking us to do that maybe we didn't address on the
front end.
I've got my 10 year old son in my brain right now, right?

(15:45):
If I do not specify on the front end what we're going to be doing and I want to pepper
in something extra later, oh, that's met with intense resistance.
You didn't say we were doing that on the front end.
So I always loved those teachers.
I tried to be one.
I loved when I would observe them, but they would start off with an agenda and maybe that

(16:06):
agenda item had like six or seven things on it.
But this particular teacher would say, but you know what?
If we're really focused and we're optimizing our time here, I'm going to knock off the
last two pieces on the agenda.
You know, kids, oh, let's do it.
Let's get focused.
You know, they collectively decide we're going to dig into this thing, but you're giving
them all of that on the front end.

(16:29):
So there's that part.
But I want to go back to your statement.
You know, they don't see it that way.
And I think that's important for us to dig into, man, because it begs the question, why?
Why don't students see it that way?
And if we can begin to dig into that and answer some of that, I think that helps with the
friction, man, that we fight constantly, which leads to this exhaustion.

(16:53):
Why are they feeling that way?
Yeah, I think when they feel that way, it's again, trying to get back to the things that
they want to do.
And all teachers try to build that buy in for a lesson.
Right?
Like you said, having an agenda is great.
I always have a screen up on my TV.
You know, none of us really have whiteboards anymore.

(17:14):
We have these giant TVs.
And I have a screen that has like what we're doing today for each class.
That way they can kind of check it off in their mind.
And I try to build like, just like you said, to build that buy in, I'll say, hey, this
connects to this.
If you do this well, you'll understand it.
You know, and they just feel that because they see this buildup of things they have

(17:36):
to do.
And they naturally push back against that because again, we're talking about teenage
development all the time on here.
It'll be a constant theme because that's our clientele, either teens or elementary, they're
adolescents getting to teenage that level.
But they see it as a buildup of, hey, how can the things we have to do to get to what

(17:56):
I want to do?
Right?
I have to do this.
They're saying it's important.
They like, if they like you, if they want to do well, they naturally still want to do
that.
And it's a whole of, if I get through this, if we don't have a lot to do, then I can turn
and talk about whatever I want to talk about, right?
Whatever's important to me.
So we're kind of fighting that the social development.
Now there are other kids in the room.

(18:17):
All right.
That's the whole point to them.
It is teenagers look at it as I have to be here.
I have to listen to this person.
If they want to do well in class, they have that.
But to them, it's more of like, my friends are in here.
You know, we look at it as like, this is my class to them.
This is a class I have to do, but it's also a social event because that's what matters

(18:39):
to teens.
They are, we're social.
And I like, I like how you're putting that sociological piece onto it.
My brain was going in a different direction, but you're absolutely true.
I mean, I'm in here with my friends.
Ultimately, I'm trying to get to the point where we're finished with the work and I'm
having a good time hanging with my friends.
I totally respect that.
I'm also wondering though, because education ultimately, and I'm talking about just learning,

(19:06):
not public education, you know, learning is nonlinear, man, in terms of how we get our
information, you know, how we store it and code it in the brain.
It's nonlinear.
But in terms of school and how students have done school, it's very linear.
And here's where I'm going with that.
Do you remember when it was, it was very popular, like teaching for mastery, okay, where a student

(19:33):
may fail everything, all the assignments, they don't do any homework, but when you give
them the test, the assessment, they pass it.
However they did it, they're able to pass it.
And there was this argument at that time, well, how could you fail a kid?
I mean, that passed the assessment.
He literally did nothing else, but he was able to pass the assessment.

(19:54):
I mean, how could you in good faith fail that kid?
Because he's mastered it, right?
He's mastered the standards.
But I can remember those teachers that would dig in their heels, but he's done nothing
else, right?
So think about that now in terms of this linear continuum and you're that kid, and I'm not
thinking of the kid who does nothing else, bro.

(20:15):
I'm now thinking of the grade grubbing kid, the kid who knows how to play school, the
kid who shows up to learn, yes, but to get the grade even more so.
So that kid will push back now, is this for a grade?
And if it's not, why am I doing that?

(20:36):
So that teacher that now has to battle both sides of that student coin, the kid who A,
literally doesn't want to do anything, but can still pass your test with mastery, and
B, the grade grubbing student who wants to do absolutely everything as long as it's for
a grade.
It's exhausting, bro.
It is.

(20:57):
Yeah, that dance is difficult because again, yeah, you're right.
There are kids who know how to play that system.
They are the hyper intelligent kids, but they also don't have that second part of making
sure their grades pristine.
I think there's two different levels.
If the kids are like, I can get by with this, I can do everything and get a great grade.

(21:18):
Then those kids who are like, if I get a 99.7, the world is over.
Those same kids probably are the same intelligence.
But again, they have that different idea of what's needed to do well.
So you've told me as a teacher, your tests are worth more.
So I'm going to get 80s on your worksheets and then knock the test out of the park.

(21:43):
Boom, I got an A. Where you have the other kid who's like, I need an A on everything
because that is how I feel.
So you're fighting those two things.
That's one thing we talked about what I was kind of go into about that feedback.
If you're giving feedback on stuff, that's not exactly a grade.
That's fine.
And we talked about that initial question, is this for a grade?

(22:05):
Being a little spicy here, teachers may not want to hear it.
It's okay to say yes, even if you're maybe not.
To get that buy in.
Right.
Right.
And hey, I'm going to agree with you there.
And like always, my friend, I'm going to challenge you a little bit there though.
If you're going to do that, which I wholeheartedly agree with, if you're going to do that, man,

(22:26):
that requires, and that word is intentional, that requires you building that culture of
continuous improvement in your classroom upfront.
I mean, those kind of expectations, man, have to be established from the beginning.
That's why I use the word culture.

(22:46):
That culture has to permeate throughout your classroom.
Man, that's just what we do in here.
That's the student voice coming out.
Man, new kid comes into class.
We got to do what?
Man, student A sitting next to him says, man, that's just what we do in here.
That's that culture of continuous improvement.
So yeah, back to your point.
They're going to say, are we grading this?

(23:07):
No, we're not.
In here, we have a culture of continuous improvement.
Not everything is going to be quantified for a grade.
But what we do in here is purposeful.
It's driven.
It's intentional, directly correlates to the objective, which will be measured on this
assessment.
I mean, you have to speak with that kind of firmness, but that firmness has to be anchored

(23:28):
in that culture that you set from the beginning.
Yeah.
I totally agree, like being open with that, that I'm going to look at this and this builds
on that and you're going to have to do it because I want you to get here is important.
I think that goes back to the feedback, right?
I think if you're intentional about talking to your class of, look, this might have a

(23:48):
letter grade, right?
That's not the only type of grade for you all.
I may be checking this and this, this mastery.
So I might come back and I might, as you're doing it, I might walk around.
I might read two of the questions and just give you a check mark on that.
That means you're doing a good job.
You don't know which two I'm doing.
All right.

(24:09):
I might walk around and three, four, and I think that builds it.
And that's that feedback we're talking about.
You don't have to take everything home or graded in at your desk or in your planning
for the type of check every single thing, get your little teacher slider chart out.
I had 20 things on this quick little worksheet, so they missed three.
But see, but see, look right there, right there, what you did, bro.

(24:30):
Perfect point.
Perfect example of that art versus science.
You just stepped into the science realm.
Okay.
So there are things that are being measured.
Here's how I am measuring it.
It could be check marks.
Like you said, it could be, I'm going to look at these two questions, but you don't know
which two questions.
I mean, you've put your foot now firmly in the science side of how I do this.

(24:52):
So if I'm a kid, there's a little bit of uncertainty here, but what do we know about uncertainty?
It impacts focus.
Ooh, now I'm more focused because I don't know which ones he's checking.
So I've got to be focused.
He is measuring it.
He's been explicit about how he's measuring it through these checks marks.
So it's not subjective.
I mean, he's walking around and seeing if I'm doing it, if he calls on me for this question.

(25:13):
I love that kind of stuff because it's intentional.
It's scientific, but it helps you scale how to do these kinds of assignments, this kind
of work without burdening yourself with having to do all of it.
And I wanted to touch that man, because you do make a couple of really good points in
there, but I also want our young teachers, our new teachers to truly feel and understand

(25:40):
that when we tell you, you don't have to grade at all, that's not the panacea.
I mean, you're going to get this kind of pushback from students.
So we want to give you the approach, the strategies, the tactics, the science and the art of how
to do it effectively because it is exhausting at the end of the day.
Oh man, it is.

(26:00):
And for new teachers out there, like I was kind of saying, you have an activity, a worksheet
out there, right?
It's not just like a crossword puzzle.
I think that's what's the bad one sometimes, which those are okay when you need them.
But you have a worksheet out there and as a teacher, a new teacher, it has 10 questions
on it and you collect it.
So now you have 70 of those worksheets from your classroom, from your classes and you're

(26:22):
like, oh, I got to check these.
You don't.
And you are the teacher, know which ones are the ones that really nail in and just do a
quick spot check.
And that's that feedback I'm talking about.
And I think we've gotten into this thing to where it's pressure from the outside world,
the state, it might be pressure from parents because again, the old school tactic of like,

(26:42):
you get a grade for everything.
Oh, we've got an 83 on this.
So we got a 92 on this and that makes your average.
And if they don't see that, if they see a check mark on a paper, they're like, well,
how does that help my kids?
Like, did that affect their grade?
It's like, no, but that affect their learning, that affect their knowledge.
And I think we've filtered this so much to get that, that we've made students look at

(27:05):
it as if every worksheet is a one off, right?
This is a quick microcosm of my abilities.
And if I don't give positive feedback on that, I'm not saying any type of feedback, if I
don't get that number on there, I don't know where I am.
Where learning is not like that.
Learning is cumulative.
It's a snowball, you push down a hill, right?

(27:27):
It starts off as about a volleyball size, you roll down the hill and by the time it
gets there, it is huge.
That's what learning is.
So we get into that and it kind of creeps in and you want to hear a kind of a heartbreaking
story about this from a first grade girl who got in trouble for throwing her papers out
the bus window.
So this little girl's on the bus, the bus is driving down the road, she's in first grade

(27:49):
and she's throwing paper out the window.
So obviously the bus driver pulls over, talks to her, has to throw stuff out the window,
kind of writes her up.
She goes in the principal's office, they ask her why she was doing that and she says this,
when my teacher grades our worksheet, she either gives us a sticker or writes okay on
it.
I was throwing away my papers with just okay so it only bring home papers with stickers.

(28:17):
This girl, she's already doubting our abilities based on a random kind of grading strategy.
And I think that's the important thing, that teacher grading it that way, I think we have
to think through how our feedback is coming out because that's a first grade girl and
she's already processed that the sticker means I'm good, "okay" means it's not as good as it

(28:38):
should be, I don't want my parents to think I'm not as good.
So it's okay, like if they're telling you hey we need everything graded, you know I
think that's okay to not do it that way.
I think it's okay to make sure that you're given, again that type of feedback, okay is
probably not the best feedback for that age level, you know, you're doing great, keep
going, you know something and I think that's what the problem is with grading everything

(29:02):
is we get in that thing of this boom number, boom number, boom number or boom comment to
where you should say hey you're doing great on this, you know there's a way we can build
them up and let them know how they're doing without either just a specific number or an
okay, I think we can build on either of those to kind of work on getting our feedback better
and kind of break that because again maybe if those worksheets that if you're just going

(29:26):
to give an okay on or if you're not going to give that maybe have a different way, don't
hand it back to them like that.
I think that's a really good segue here for us because if you take that problem and you
start talking about the implications of that where how does this scale grading everything
what we're talking about here, how does that scale?

(29:46):
Well it doesn't, what it does result in is burnout which brings us to these statistics,
you know you had shared with me a number of teachers either exiting the profession or
the percentage of vacancies, you know these positions we can't fill, I mean I think this
is one of the pillars behind these kind of statistics is you know you just can't scale

(30:08):
grading everything, in fact what it results in the implication of that is burnout and
we know what happens when teachers burn out.
You know offline you would ask me as a principal had I ever had I really felt because I think
one of my calling cards as principal is I served as principal before the pandemic, during
the pandemic, after the pandemic.

(30:29):
So what was that kind of looking that pre, during, post and the reality is where it was
never a challenge an issue to hire a social studies teacher, never a challenge an issue
you know to find an English teacher, it got to the point you know second year post pandemic
where you couldn't find teachers for some of your easiest positions to fill, I'm even

(30:56):
talking PE, social studies, you know senior English, you couldn't fill these positions,
we're not talking math, we're not talking chemistry, we're not talking AP European history,
I'm talking about these bread and butter positions you know that we have not been able to fill
post pandemic and I think this is one of the big reasons why.

(31:16):
Yeah I mean just looking at some of those statistics I talked a little bit about in
the mailbag episode there's 500,000 plus fewer educators post pandemic more than 61% of administrators
have found it difficult to hire that person like you talked about the Wall Street Journal
said 44% of public schools posted teaching magazines in early 2022 you know those are

(31:39):
type of things that it's telling you that this burnout is an actual thing and again
talking about grading just let's break it down this way in numbers wise the according
to Merrimack College and Ed Week research centers the average median hours for teachers
are 54 hours a week 25 of those hours are actually teaching students where you're up

(32:03):
talking the rest is planning grading any other work we have to do outside of teaching and
that's what we're talking about here is bringing that home think about that the average work
week is 54 for a teacher and 40 hour work week I know other professors work long and
have those hours but usually you work those hours that's to get something done it's to

(32:24):
get through a task and then maybe the next task you do it might be less because it's
not as this is every single week because the task doesn't change for us the case isn't
you know lawyers the case isn't all of a sudden bigger might be an easier case it's not a
difficult one you got to dig into it night and maybe you work longer hours that week
in that case this is just every day for every day of the school year and that's what we're

(32:49):
talking about like bringing that home, which is why when you're an educator or you're related
to an educator you know you're in a relationship with sibling etc parent of and the argument
becomes summers off you know and I put that in air quotes you know you've got your summers
off dude I work 54 hours a week median okay that's the average sometimes it skews even

(33:16):
more and by the time I get to the summer man I am so mentally drained exhausted physically
withdrawn you know if I don't have this summer there would be no sustainability you would
have no educational workforce I mean so I get sick of hearing that argument about yeah

(33:37):
but you get an entire summer off you're talking about people who have been in a crucible for
10 months working in these kinds of environments where you're pushing yourself to your physical
mental spiritual maximums and now you're giving me grief about this time off in the summer

(33:58):
I mean so I do think that educators need those kind of advocates to champion for them in
that much needed space of time off to try to get that balance because even then it's
still too little so when I hear people arguing about you get those summers off man I do makes
my blood boil a little bit because of that stat you just gave their 54 hours a week median

(34:21):
average for teachers in their workload and you're right a lot of that is coming home
dude I see it here and when you've got a 10 year old boy who's been waiting all day to
see his mother and she has stuff that she has to get done when she gets home because
again an air quote grades are due right you know it uh it impacts the home man and it

(34:42):
really starts to cut into your quality of life it does yeah and I always tell people
like you know we're not paid for the summer right I think a lot of people there's a misconception
out there that we have to teach and then all of a sudden it's just like oh you get a two
month vacation where you get paid now I'm a 10 month employee my paycheck goes through
the school year so now luckily through modern banking and stuff we're able to spread it

(35:03):
out I used to have to like save and put it in a bank account to basically give myself
a paycheck throughout the summer and you're letting you're letting other folks look under
the hood a little bit you've got these two options right you can take the lump sum option
where you get the big check but no money in the summer or you can take the you know spread
out option I don't know the official name for that but that's where the depression check

(35:27):
yeah they're gonna get sad when I see it each check right so it's less than every two weeks
but you still get those checks in the summer which aren't as big as your regular checks
but you're not getting paid in the summer you're a 10 month employee you're just choosing
to take less on the front end so that you have enough to feed your family during the

(35:48):
summer yeah and I think so your talk there let's transition here we talked about grading
mentioned you got a 10 year old boy and they're waiting for you my children waiting for me
to get home and then you just have stuff to do so let's take a quick change and talk about
exhaustion and our relationships so talk about exhaustion relationship teachers I've talked

(36:12):
to they often fear being vulnerable with their struggles from work we talked about this already
with maybe our other teachers or even our administrators fearing being vulnerable because
you want to be seen as the weak teacher but this time though we're at home we're fighting
the war at home against exhaustion so now we're sometimes worried about being vulnerable
with our spouses right our spouse can take it especially if they're non-educators both

(36:37):
of us have educator spouses so I'm where I'm coming from this I've observed I've sat around
because what do teachers do when they're not at work but they're hanging out with other
people teach they talk about teaching because it is our life right it's what we care about
so we have but non-educator spouses we often can worry that they're just see it as complaining

(36:58):
it makes teachers it makes you feel very alone because you're sitting there you're just complaining
about work and everybody does this but teachers do it often because we always we have a new
situation every day but if you're afraid to talk about it this can build resentment between
you and your spouse and now that work exhaustion has crept into your home like creeping death
you're feeling it it is clenching your chest but now you're like gosh dang it I just literally

(37:24):
talked to my husband talked to my wife talked to my boyfriend girlfriend yesterday about
this situation that made me feel so exhausted or worn out or angry and now I got a new one
today do I talk about that do I vent or are they just going to be like good lord if you're
going to complain about this so much get a new job man like come on right so our non-educator

(37:45):
spouses I think it stems from and you know jump in if you feel a little different one
this persona of education is not really a profession right it's a job and I think that
makes our exhaustion and we fight against that every day that's one of the reasons we're
doing this show because it is a profession but it can make your exhaustion seem less

(38:06):
tangible because when you compare it maybe your husband or wife is a lawyer and they're
like oh my gosh I had to deal with this and this judge wouldn't listen and those are high
stakes things and then we come in and say oh my gosh I had this 13 year old who just
kept interrupting my class and we quantify that because of the result like court case

(38:28):
big deal teaching important but not maybe right there on that level as a court case
but exhaustion is real like I said I said in the mailbag teaching is a profession of
the soul we don't get partnerships we don't get raises really we do this because we care

(38:48):
and so now you're feel like well I mean you know my wife just talked to me my husband
just talked to me for 20 minutes about how if this doesn't happen the right way their
client might go to jail so but then now you're sitting there like I'm exhausted because I've
had to deal with this kid every day who won't stop interrupting and you might feel like
that's less but well and I think here's the fundamental problem with it you know the fundamental

(39:11):
problem and I'm speaking as you know a 45 year old adult who's in an 11 year marriage
who lives with a 19 year teaching veteran so admittedly I'm not the most qualified person
to talk about being in a relationship with an educator and having no education frame

(39:31):
of reference so I'm thinking of that person you know who works in advanced manufacturing
but their wife or husband is a teacher you know I'm thinking of that person and here's
the fundamental problem you know the expectation when you're outside of the education profession
is if you signed up to be a teacher right you applied you went through the process man

(39:55):
you got your degree in it you know you you're in this mindset you've signed up for it now
the job's here and it's happening to you and now you're bringing it home the fundamental
understanding and expectation is you signed up for that so everything you're complaining
about you signed up for it everything that you're experiencing you signed up for it I

(40:19):
think we have this idea this collective consciousness about public education especially that it
is a grind that is a hot mess in certain areas but you know what you signed up for it what
are you complaining about we all know this the simpsons have been just you know humiliating
public education for a generation so what are we talking about here why are you complaining

(40:44):
you signed up for this I think that's a general sentiment man and not to get into people's
relationships because there are caring partners there are those that empathize but I'm gonna
have to share and I'll be vulnerable and transparent here for a minute you know as an educator
my wife as well man therapy has helped me in a lot of different areas of my life but

(41:05):
specifically and I'm currently in therapy friends specifically therapy has helped me
with being present and that's ultimately the greatest gift we can give somebody so when
you are with your spouse man the ability to be present and listen to that pain that they're
sharing it is a game changer in your relationships but back to the point that we're talking about

(41:31):
you go through that one night man you have to be ready to turn right around and get that
again the next day and maybe the day after that that's ultimately what we're talking
about here and friends I'm gonna go back to the word of this entire three arc episode
it's exhausting but it's still a reality that so many of us are dealing with I mean it is

(41:52):
like you do have to go through it and you know I talked to a teacher about this who
you know has a non educator spouse and you know they're never gonna understand the stress
of being a teacher I always find that funny you said you like you signed up for it right
that's always a thing I mean and I'm gonna say this all professions are dealing with
stuff I don't ever want it to sound like we're just saying like hey this is it's more stressful
or it's harder we're just talking through this lens to help educators deal with their

(42:15):
exhaustion right like that is our goal if we I can't fix how a lawyer doctor anybody
feels but we can talk about teachers to make that feel and they're and they're never gonna
understand that stress even though I think people kind of do but they really don't get
it every time I meet somebody who's not a teacher or they're like oh what do you do
and I'm like I'm a teacher and they kind of like their head goes back it's kind of a little

(42:36):
shocked thing for a second they're like oh man I could never do what you do like and
you always get that but then there's also this like other side of hey you don't stop
complaining and teacher said she said my constant venting really wore out our relationship it
was frustrating to my husband to listen to me complain about the same things day after

(42:56):
day and he would often try to fix the problem by offering solutions that were completely
impractical because it seemed he didn't understand the expectations and that's that's the issue
there I think a lot of spouses especially once you have children I think this is where
the some of the issue like your spouse may look at it or your boyfriend girlfriend whatever
your relationship is may look at it as like I've stresses at home at work too and but

(43:20):
then you have kids they kind of get what you're talking about because they've dealt with those
same issues with your children because it's you know these are standard behavior issues
or standard things with kids and so they're like I don't get it like you know you do this
at home I see you take care of this why at work is it just knocking you down so much
we have to talk about it every day and stress you out so much like why don't you just do

(43:42):
this and I think there's like yeah with our kids it is this way but when you have again
class sizes 25 different unique personalities it really starts to weigh on you yeah but
you're you're also you're also getting into you know that willpower is finite and there's
a great study on this if you've ever read the book switch by Chip and Dan Heath you

(44:05):
know they go into the back is and chocolate chip cookies cookies study which ultimately
measures that our willpower is finite so you know you're a teacher and you're keeping it
together all day or parallel example you're a 10 year old boy with dyslexia and inattentive
ADHD and you're keeping it together all day I mean you're really focused you're trying

(44:27):
hard throughout the school day and when you get home I mean your willpower is finite it's
drained I don't have it anymore so now that I'm here I have to let it out and just let
all that out and whatever that looks like for you you know that takes many shakes and
forms and sizes for different people but when we get home our willpower is just so diminished

(44:51):
we have to either end up just info dumping or we're a hot mess of emotions or we have
to go crash out on the bed whatever that looks like for you or we spend an hour and a half
in the gym because we've just got a de-stress and get all of that out but that truly does
get inside of that world of people that are under that kind of pressure to keep it together

(45:14):
whether that's keeping your focus whether that's keeping your head level whether that's
keeping your emotions in check that's really challenging for people to do day after day
after day when they're dealing with intense adversity in teaching as a profession falls
right into that crucible.
Yeah and I think when you are dealing with that yeah there's a crucible I love that you

(45:36):
said that and that's what we're trying to do here talking about this stress on relationships
too because that's our biggest thing because your home's kind of your safe space your spouse
or boyfriend girlfriend like those are your safe spaces that's why you're with them because
they make you feel comfortable and we you don't want to add exhaustion to yourself because
you need the vent or you feel this and you're afraid to bring it into that space because

(45:59):
you don't want to alienate them you make them just frustrated make them afraid like oh gosh
okay we're both home and now I'm going to hear 40 minutes of why English class was so
bad today you know and that starts to build that resentment message to spouses go get
your spouse if you're listening I'll wait talk to him Bill Harry Jim Becky Samantha

(46:24):
whatever your name is spouses it is different it is hard this is we're trying to do our
best job and we're dealing with things and all the things we're dealing with are keeping
us from doing that best job so I'm telling you right now it is hard so that exhaustion
from dealing with that is hard but also not only complaining but bringing the work home
right like the war at home with exhaustion bringing work home can also cause that resentment

(46:50):
that exhaust seeps in so when you bring our work home we're talking about this grading
idea it can start to strain our relationships even with our spouses and our children how
many of us teachers have super supportive spouse like they know the gig we have so many
teachers who have just have that person who's like I know what you do I know it's hard I
couldn't do it so I am with you but humans naturally like you said we start to break

(47:14):
down we only have a finite amount of willpower so really think listeners out there how many
times you have that super supportive spouse and you've been bringing home an extra tote
bag of papers every day and you get home you make dinner you eat you clean up and then
you sit at your table or wherever you work and you get out those papers when you start
grading and working and this is now an every night thing because more 54 hours a week median

(47:39):
right but let's let's let's let's punch in on that just for a second because it is going
to be an every night thing and you referenced supportive spouses you know you talked about
coming home making dinner then getting out your stuff on the table the tote bag the work
and where you're going with that it feels like and this is this is going to get us to
a strategy for folks you know when you're doing really hard things when you're working

(48:03):
and living in this kind of a crucible how do you sustain that you know I always love
that quote and I'm going to butcher it by the Navy SEALs you know it's that you don't
rise to the occasion you ultimately fall to your level to your level of training you know
your systems so systems thinking so what systems do you have in place at home to help you do

(48:27):
these hard things case in point you know my wife gets home from the teaching day I'm currently
an educational consultant I'm based out of middle Tennessee I have a lot of flex time
so I'm working out of the office at home so I'm home a lot she comes home we have a system
where the first few minutes when she gets home it's put our things down we embrace with

(48:50):
a physical touch we have a few pleasantries but we're not addressing the intensity of
the day yet we get through that buffer space where we've set our stuff down we're using
the restroom we're just we're getting that off of us then we move into this space of

(49:11):
you share I share it's not exactly timed but it's under this idea that you're gonna go
then I'm gonna go which allows us both this freedom to just info dump knowing that there's
a beginning and an end and then you go next and man that has worked so beautifully for

(49:33):
us to just take this time what we call you know time blocking put that little block on
your calendar you're now making it a system that you can measure a system that you can
adjust so hey when we get home we don't jump straight into this we actually have this little
buffer of time where we take care of XYZ then when we come back together this is a time

(49:58):
for both my spouse and I to share with each other in this round robin style of sharing
about the intensity or the joyfulness of our day but creating that kind of system at home
can do so much wonders for you what do you think about something like that yeah I love
that because like I was saying like the last thing you want to hear because again I think

(50:21):
it's really easy to get into that mode of oh we do those things like even if you do
that right like we have those little moments and then you hug and stuff but in the back
of our mind like even sometimes through that if we have this idea that we need to have
tons of stuff to grade or we need to get this or gosh I need to make this lesson in the
back of your mind you're still thinking when am I going to do that when am I going to do

(50:42):
that oh no like my kid had needed help with homework I thought I was going to get to it
at seven and now it's eight o'clock when am I going to do that the last and then you
jump into it because that's what's driving your brain and now your spouse is like yo
we didn't we had that little moment but this is every day I feel like I'm coming home almost
alone and the last thing we want is like those things that come out of our once they hit

(51:04):
their limit as support you don't want to hear like I miss my wife or I miss my husband or
that I miss the time you spot used to spend together or the worst thing you know it can
get to this sometimes and ultimate them you got to either pick work or me because this
is ridiculous so talking about those strategies I have some here there's an article here by
Angela Watson on truth for teachers dot com and she kind of gives out a way to kind of

(51:28):
work on relationships as opposed to just going through this same thing and kind of figuring
it out and hope it works the first one she talks about is recognize when your priorities
are out of whack be honest with yourself about what needs to change and you know what could
be the outcomes if it stays the same like if you're if you kind of are self assessing

(51:50):
and you're like I work from the moment dinner is cleaned up and other household things are
done I work from then to bedtime that's what she's trying to be like you need to assess
that like is that sustainable can you keep going there's a quote from a teacher in the
article as much as I and this kind of that thinking as you're assessing this hopefully

(52:10):
this helps teachers like we want you to think of your time at home to limit that exhaustion
start to think about this to make sure you're not making yourself more exhausted a teacher
in this says as much as I love them these students will be out of my class in 10 weeks
in reality most won't give me more than a passing thought for their entire lives my

(52:31):
husband will be with me every night for the foreseeable future what do you think about
that like perspective right there hey man right and I love that you put that quote in
there it's powerful to me for a couple of reasons you know here's number one what's
one of the biggest reasons we can't retain teachers we can't get more teachers into the

(52:52):
profession you know number one's got to be pay is the pay competitive is it competitive
to this district is it competitive to this other industry okay by and large we've done
better to bring the pay up is it still where it needs to be most educators working 54 hours
average on average a week would tell you no it's not okay so if we hold that the pay is

(53:15):
not where it needs to be well we make up for that we offset that limited pay with this
grandiose idea that the work you're doing is so important right it's so powerful you
may not be getting financially compensated how you need to be however in terms of you

(53:38):
know purpose in terms of fulfillment man this work is significant right so keep it on that
lens now you're taking that lens of significance purpose how big this work is you know things
like life-changing get thrown out there and you apply that to your relationship with every

(53:58):
kid in all of your classes I mean how that seeps into a teacher's ethos man and makes
you feel and then you expect a teacher not to bring that kind of weight home so I like
that quote here from that teacher I really do because a it's very very true yeah you
know I thought about that same thing as a principal too I mean this community that I'm

(54:22):
serving that I'm so just ingratiated in will continue to be here long after me I mean but
the people that I live with that care for me that want to be here with me they're struggling
now and will continue to be with me long after but I'm not paying them the same kind of service
but I wanted to address that man I think that's where teachers get caught into that kind of

(54:46):
trap and it's not their fault man because it's the system that we have created that
perpetuates this mindset and model but that's my thoughts on that is we're not paying them
enough and we've offset that idea that you don't get paid just in financial compensation

(55:07):
you also get paid in this is life-changing work that only people like you can do and
man what I think that does to your mind state whoo yeah that's a lot to put on a person
you know you become it is like you're holding the future the development of every kid in

(55:27):
your class on your shoulders you know I have a right if you buy into that kind of grandiose
idea of this is what the profession does right and a lot of us sell it that way come on man
you know I dip my toe into the keynote speaking world you know I love to inspire all that
kind of stuff but a lot of these keynoters dude that's exactly what the message is you're

(55:48):
a life changer game changer you're the only important person in some of these people's
lives I mean we lay that kind of messaging on teachers all the time and expect them to
just internalize it and a lot of them yeah we do and because like we like said it's a
profession of the soul and keeping that on them like you think about that all the time

(56:10):
and it's just again that weight and that's why I did love that quote too because sometimes
it's okay and that's I think sometimes why teaching has gotten some of the issues we'll
talk about those in the future but it is that other people outside forces are able to leverage
that against us where other professions they're more able to say no because there's not that

(56:33):
leverage of like oh well you don't want to do this you're cool with letting kids down
and that is just an unfair thing to put on people because you know at some point you
got to be like you know what these kids are going to leave they I may affect them in the
class I'm going to do my job in the class to be that support system but I cannot alienate
my family like my husband or wife is going to be here through thick and thin for everything

(56:58):
and those kids may not even I may think that I changed that kid's life and he may see me
in Walmart three years from now and maybe not even do a second glance when he sees me
and that's nothing against the kid right that they may I may be and then maybe that's a
different in perception we feel that way because everybody's put it on us right like they they

(57:18):
may have nobody at home they may have nobody listens to them and we put that on everything
and maybe you know a couple things about the kid they may just be thinking this is my history
teacher I'm glad he's nice I'm glad he listens but they may not apply that same weight but
we're carrying that home and now you have your husband or wife sitting across from you
literally telling you I need more time with you and we're weighing that against like yeah

(57:41):
well you're an adult you've agreed to marry me you're in this so I need to help this kid
because you know my cape is on 24 hours a day I am I am super teach Superman and to
help him and I think it's important to realize that I fully expect me and my wife to be sitting
on the front porch and rocking chairs when I'm 72 I don't think a person in my fifth
period history class is going to be texting me or calling me when I'm 72 hopefully they'll

(58:05):
be out having fulfilling, wonderful lives themselves, so we have to make sure it doesn't ruin that
now you know I don't I don't I don't want to exclude our administrators from this conversation
yeah and here's the example I'm going to give you for principles that applies to exactly
what we were talking about for teachers you know I heard this about principles the other
week and I just I love the analogy, but a great point, the great principles are those who can

(58:31):
absorb the most pain for a school and think about that again great principles are those
who can absorb the most pain for a school, so think of that as a sponge so I'm absorbing
all this pain and as a former principal man I just relate to that analogy you're just
absorbing I'm good who I absorbed it over here it didn't affect the school I'm

(58:54):
absorbing it over here, classes kept running, I'm absorbing you know you're absorbing all
that you're this sponge so then you come home and you've absorbed all that you are this
fully stopping sponge just seeping you know with it coming out and how do I rinse that
at home because I'm full I don't have any more you know capacity to bring anything else

(59:19):
in man that is a dangerous place to be as a father as a husband as a friend as a son
whatever it may be but that's the life of administrators through this same lens of what
teachers are dealing with internalizing all of that you know with their students whether

(59:40):
it's man your life changing for these kids they don't have anybody but you put the cape
on keep it on man the administrator side of that is very very similar you're absorbing
all of this pain so your school can continue to run optimally effectively and when you
get home you're just absolutely filled and it's how you wring out that sponge that ultimately

(01:00:07):
allows you to, you know, to be back into discover mode where you can be with your family fully
in the present living joyfully all that kind of jazz man at the end of the day what's the
word we've been talking about man, it is, exhausting yeah and I think that the idea we have to
get in this mindset that you can do all those things at work be there for your kids and

(01:00:29):
stuff but we need to keep this exhaustion creeping into our homes you can't be full
because guess what your spouse and your kids need you too and that's a lot right like you're
doing your job and they need you and again that quote they're important so how can we
kind of have that sponge of those things we're feeling not as full when we get home or not

(01:00:50):
get not pile on top because none of us are going to be like hey I had a hard day I've
been counselor teacher friend protector supporter to 125 kids all day I don't have anything
left for you none of us are going to do that so what do we do our sponge is full so we
literally be like I'll just add stuff on top of it and then we're not where we're supposed

(01:01:14):
to be so one of the strategies in this article to help that too is creating boundaries right
and that sounds so simple everybody right now listens like oh well of course I do that
but do you what are your boundaries are those things you're saying you're doing that or
are they real boundaries so like for example with we're trying to make sure this doesn't
creep in at home so we're talking about relationships and your spouse you know make sure don't get

(01:01:38):
in that drive of Friday and Saturday is when I don't work I'll do some stuff Sunday to
prefer for Monday but Friday and Saturday are my days that's not enough because especially
when you have kids now Friday and Saturday become oh baseball tournament oh doing this
so when are you creating that with your time so you know set a couple things you can do
according to article set date nights with your spouse like literally set times to do

(01:02:01):
things I'm not saying has to be extravagant but just set days where you don't have anything
you bring home for the purpose of you're going to go home and do something with your spouse
and now if something crazy comes up of course you you talk to your spouse adjust that but
have some time and don't count doing dishes or folding laundry as time because you're

(01:02:24):
not working that still work we're trying to understand what our spouse are thinking too
you're still working so to them they're doing a task and you it's like oh look we're talking
or fold laundry this is nice none neither of us are working they're probably looking
at that like oh let's get this done and then we can do something where a lot of teachers
are like oh we I have to do this and then I'll start working you know you got you got
me thinking about something funny because you keep using the word work and and I think

(01:02:49):
it's it's important to address this we're talking about how to be successful at home
so you've left the workday it's very intense you're now home and how can we you know decompress
how can we connect better with our families so the idea for me goes back to that word
work that you said you're going to have to create a system at home which on the front

(01:03:16):
end is a bit of work create a calendar literally time block you're making a system for how
you function at home after the workday this is so counterintuitive from most educators
it just really is because for the most part our day is planned out for us we we operate

(01:03:39):
and move by bell schedules we know how long our class times are we know how long the passing
periods are we know when our faculty meeting is going to be on what day of what week each
month these things are fed to us and then we get home and it's the wild west and we

(01:03:59):
don't really want to be in that kind of confined system anymore because we're now at home but
then we get off and realize that because our willpower is so finite we don't have the capacity
to keep it together at home we're all over the place which brings us back to work you've

(01:04:20):
got to build a system for how to function better at home and when you put in that work
on the front end to create that kind of system whether it's a buffer when you first get home
whether it's time blocking to communicate with your spouse at work but you both get
shared time to share your personal stories or if it's hey here's what I'm going to do

(01:04:44):
this with my kids all of that can be put into a system that you use manageably effectively
sustainably at home but it is a bit of work but when you do it man things flow so much
smooth and everybody's happy educators yeah and I think a big part of that one of the

(01:05:07):
things the article talks about that I really like because I think this is something a lot
of teachers don't think of because we have extra duties if you're not a teacher listen
to us you know we teach we're talking about all this stuff we're doing in class and then
it's like oh by the way you got to work this volleyball game you got to work this basketball
game hey your students are in this extracurricular club and they're having a presentation you

(01:05:27):
should be there for that that's kind of those little things that you know be present in
the community I think one of those strategies that really helps is that work on the front
end you said match up those things you do with maybe when you're like spouse has to
do something talk on the weekend and say hey this week I got to work a volleyball game
what do you have let them know ahead of time that way maybe that's a day where they work

(01:05:50):
late I literally have some friends and the wife is a teacher and the husband is not and
she was talking about that she had to we were all hanging out we were just talking and she
was like oh yeah this Thursday I have a Tuesday I have parent teacher conferences and Thursday
there's a band concert they have to be at because like two of my students asked me and
the husband was like so you're not going to be home two days this week basically and I

(01:06:13):
was kind of sitting there like oh you know like I was like oh gosh this could become
an argument when we're all sitting here I think that's something like to that will really
help that is hey I have to do this do you when do you do you have anything you have
to do at work because if you have a meeting you have to go to late at night that that'll
be a day that I work late at school or that'll be a day where I sign up for a volleyball
game kind of a season of life people talk about this especially when you have kids at

(01:06:37):
sometimes with your spouse your ships in the night right you're just like passing each
other you know like you're oh hey nice to see you but it reminds me of that scene man
in that movie up in the air with George Clooney it's been several years there's a scene where
they're sitting in his hotel room is he and his person he's in a relationship they've
got their calendars in front of them you know and it's this essentially like hilarious scene

(01:07:00):
of when are you available I'm here I could squeeze in 30 minutes here and they're they're
looking at those calendars but it reminds me of something you said a little earlier
in the episode about people not seeing teaching as a profession you know when you're a professional
yeah and you have a calendar and you've got appointments or you've got a court case or
you've got a meeting with the client you know when you're in your calendar it's those two

(01:07:23):
people sitting across the bed from each other and hey when can we pencil this in I mean
teachers are very much professionals and you're going to have to utilize the calendar that's
back to your point hey when would be a good night for us to do X let's go to our calendars
and double check my wife has really pushed me into embracing the life of a calendar to

(01:07:47):
build these kind of systems for us but I think that's really important to kind of get your
head around also calendars will help us with establishing these boundaries you know you
absolutely just can't say yes to everything as a high school principal man I just knew
when it came to sporting events when it came to you know artistic performances I'm going

(01:08:14):
to try to be at 90 percent of those it's just not sustainable you have to create boundaries
set a finite number for yourself pick some ones that are going to be significant make
sure you're at those and the rest of them it's going to be okay man it's going to be
absolutely okay that I'm not there an important thing to say a lot of people know this again

(01:08:39):
because of our profession and we're dealing with kids so it's very easy to feel guilt
and you don't ever want to say I'm saying say this to say this to yourself no is a complete
sentence no period done right hey could you come to this we kind of need a little extra
help no done now don't say in a jerky way you don't have to have an excuse like no

(01:09:05):
sometimes if you've done your job it's okay to say no to going to that you know again
don't say it straight to a student but like and internalize that is like knows a complete
sentence and we don't say that a lot we feel bad like oh yeah I need to go to this game
oh the the you know soccer teams playing I have a bunch of soccer players oh also the
football teams playing Friday oh I also have some band kids you know looking at that from

(01:09:26):
the term of relationship that exhaustion now you get home and your spouse like hey nice
to see you you know you're not there saying like that saying no to yourself you know how
many teachers I know that bring work on vacation with them like think about that they load
up the car to go to the beach and they have a bag of papers to grade or they have stuff

(01:09:47):
because in their mind it's like oh the car ride is like time I can get this done but
let's look at that through our kids and families filter oh they're working again you know yeah
you could just be staring out the window I get it like you see that as valuable time
but like you said that presence are you there like don't that bag alone the bag of work

(01:10:08):
could already sour your spouse your kids view on your attentiveness to this trip or this
activity even if you don't even pull it out and open it just because it's there they know
that bag look when 100% agree I'm also gonna make a point of clarification because there
are gonna be those teachers and I have a couple in mind that this is their lifestyle and this

(01:10:30):
is what they do it's how they do it right do it well all right oh yeah so this is not
to ostracize them this is certainly not to be critical of them not it's just that you
can't look at that teacher as the expectation there are gonna be those teachers this is
their lifestyle teaching is a lifestyle for them and it's gonna work for some of those

(01:10:54):
people but do not fall into that comparison is the thief of joy trap that I'm going to
use that teacher as my benchmark of what a teaching professional looks like does operates
inside and outside of school you just have to be careful not to fall in that trap for

(01:11:15):
the majority of us boundaries are imperative for the majority of us willpower is finite
for the majority of us our families need us just as much or more so than the people were
serving so I just wanted to make that point of clarification that there are gonna be those

(01:11:37):
teachers who can withstand all that there are gonna be those teachers who this is their
360 degree lifestyle completely impacted by the profession do not let those teachers be
your benchmark of expectation because that is a losing losing battle yeah it is and I

(01:11:58):
like that point it can kind of sound like if I have a system it works well that's awesome
right if you have a system works well and that is your lifestyle great well we're asking
here is that system working but are you still feeling exhausted all right and these are
ways to kind of have a little adjustment to that you know make sure you're being aware
because again we feel that pressure about that my kids need me I need to do this right

(01:12:22):
having a day where you don't work maybe like this Thursday nights we're not doing anything
I'll make sure everything's done prior to that another thing to make sure you do as
well talking about this home life relationship not having that exhaustion or that resentment
I think it's important to you know if you feel that your spouse is just getting like
gosh they just complain about this all the time you know set up a strategy maybe have

(01:12:43):
somebody talk to a friend about it it'll be open and maybe you talk to each other on the
car at home and you get your venting out with another teacher who can emphasize or maybe
you go to the gym with a teacher most important thing I think here is don't play bad day poker
don't you lay your cards on the table or your spouse lays their cards and then you're like
oh you think you had a bad day let me tell you about this because then it just becomes

(01:13:07):
this competing venting you know have a strategy for that like don't let that exhaustion at
work creep in to your lifestyle and your family make sure you understand that and set up some
things like that goes back to the idea of you know do you want to be happy or do you
want to be right you know if you want to be right and argue with your spouse that my day

(01:13:28):
was tougher than yours and let me show you how and go through the laundry list of things
or do you want to be happy do you want to come home be present live joyfully it is that
idea ultimately and it's pretty binary do you want to be happy or do you want to be
right so you don't want to get into that bad day of poker with a spouse and just let me

(01:13:50):
continue to trunk card you over and over with the laundry list of things that happened negatively
to me today you know also it reminded me as a principal is back to kind of those strategies
and tactics as a principal in our PLC's I was very hands-on with my ELA PLC because
I was a former English teacher so when we're doing our PLC meetings I always love to have

(01:14:13):
a little bit of time set aside where my teachers could interact you know in a non scope and
sequence conversation about these kinds of ideas you know give us some ideas you over
zealous teacher who's 100% committed to work takes it all home does it give us some strategies

(01:14:36):
at home of how you manage that then over here teacher who leaves everything at school will
not touch their text message box their phone their email you know after the workday could
you give us some strategies too and how you have really stopped giving a you know what
about things after 3 p.m. can you kind of walk us through that so we can glean some

(01:14:57):
insight but giving your teachers this space to have these kind of radical candor conversations
you know with you there present as well so you can hear from both sides of these learning
yourself providing insights and your own ideas because you're a human being too I think
those are healthy conversations man to have manage them put time stamps on them but please

(01:15:22):
have them because we're more than just professionals we're human beings as well who have lives
outside of the school day and we do need to be talking about those as a team I think those
are important especially when you have that support because again we feel guilty we feel
like oh I'm not I'm leaving this on my desk you have no wife's a teacher too and I think

(01:15:44):
this really goes to this point I work a lot you know I try to craft things and make it
perfect but I've set aside time at home like when I was getting my doctorate I told myself
I am not going to miss any of my kids games or anything because I have a paper to do and
I pushed myself to exhaustion because I was literally up to like 2 a.m. type of papers
because I wanted to be husband father and then I was trying to get this doctorate and

(01:16:06):
that was tough but I wanted to not miss anything because I was just afraid of that but there's
so many times my wife goes hey I didn't even bring my backpack home tonight and I'm like
yeah you know like to me that's like yeah you're gonna work because she's one of those
like she will you know always perfecting her craft and always working that almost shouldn't
be a point of celebration you know like to her it's like guess what I didn't do tonight

(01:16:27):
I didn't bring that work home and that's what we're talking about here having that established
already so it's not a random oh I didn't bring it home tonight you maybe set days you maybe
make sure you organized where you are working this day I'm gonna bring some home or the
stuff I'm gonna bring home is gonna be smaller I have five papers I need to grade or I have

(01:16:48):
to grade this one class or I have to look over this one thing try not to bring home
I have to create a lesson or a unit over this tonight you know like that and this thing
where you're just stuck it because we all get that way where you're just diving in you're
reading stuff you're looking at stuff you're looking you're crafting things and before

(01:17:08):
you know it you looked up and you've been doing it two hours you started at seven it's
nine o'clock and you're like uh kids where hey guys you know I mean like cuz they walked
out and they saw you but you've been in that try to create those strategies those boundaries
and all of that will start to lessen your exhaustion because you may be feeling you're
doing a really good job balancing it but then you still feel exhaustion that's your brain

(01:17:33):
telling you you're doing too much right now you're bringing too much home you're not having
those moments of yeah we may think we have multitasking you know figured out the real
in the reality is you're you know the easiest person to fool is yourself come yeah so please
don't don't don't fall into that category you know offline you had also shared with

(01:17:54):
me some some tools some resources you know to help teachers with this and maybe dig into
that a little bit there's even some new AI pieces out there that can really really help
as we get into this argument of whether to lean into AI whether or not to but maybe share
some of those resources for teachers you know that can be a benefit in creating a little

(01:18:18):
bit of balance yeah let's talk look into some of the things that give you that good feedback
but make your life a little easier so something like you said that the new tech right some
things out there can do this for us there's a couple sites especially and right now I'm
really I'm speaking to a lot of the teachers who have a lot of writing stuff because that's

(01:18:38):
usually you know if you're grading a quick little worksheet you could do three classes
in 20 minutes you got a key boom boom boom boom boom boom boom you got it right but if
you're somebody who does a lot of writing in class or has students write read and then
write something and then you got to read and feedback one of them is class companion dot
com okay so you can set up a prompt in there and then they literally answer the prompt

(01:19:04):
and it has an AI system read it based on what you said the answer should be read it and
then it it actually gives them your feedback again like you don't have to type the feedback
the AI reads what your answer was your ideal answer that you typed in so you're doing this
all in the front and the planning side they get the prompt they log on they type in their

(01:19:24):
answer and then the AI you can give them three times to do it and the AI goes after the first
time goes you're on the right track now think of adding this and then they have to answer
it again and they add in that factor readjust their answer to do the AI says great you're
doing good there you should also think of this to really wrap it up and they add that
in and boom they got a good answer now think of that from the other side not using a system

(01:19:50):
like that they write it they turn it in you read it you either if they turn in digitally
you're typing a little comment box for every single student by the way you need to add
this you send it back they write it you read it then you send back that other feedback
this is a back and forth and now you're grading the same thing three times where this system

(01:20:11):
does it for you and the thing you finally grade has already had meaningful feedback
based on your criterion and the student has adjusted it so you're reading that product
and then if there's something else needed you can comment on a way to go deeper after
it's already been dug deeper so you were cutting out two to three back and forth on the same

(01:20:33):
assignment using this and that's such a time saver.
Sure yeah I think that another one to just create things again I think you know AI will
probably I'm assuming you know we'll probably maybe do an arc over AI because I think it's
so important but you know just talking about this I think AI when you're using it the right

(01:20:54):
way is good another one's built for teachers called magicschool.ai and basically if you
go to magicschool.ai and again that first one was classcompanion.com if you go to magicschool.ai
it has a whole suite of things that you can create using this putting in prompts it can
create quick worksheets it you can put a PowerPoint in and then ask it to create a fill in the

(01:21:19):
blank note sheet from that if you don't want your kids have to write a lot so you want
to go over the PowerPoint quickly you know I do that all the time just to make sure my
kids can do it quickly instead of like because the worst thing is like you're talking and
you're ready to move on and that one kid's like could you go back and then you're just
staring at the class awkwardly like while the one kid's writing try not to make them
feel weird so you're like trying to riff and fill in real quick but like taking your PowerPoint

(01:21:42):
turn into a Word document deleting words for them to fill in the blank that could take
like 30 minutes on a decent sized PowerPoint four seconds does it you can create like said
worksheets it can create it can create units it can create text based prompts off of topic
you want to do it has a whole suite of things for administrators listening even as like
professional development generators to where you can put in when you want to work and it

(01:22:05):
can create a script so madder school dot AI is a way to lessen this time please teachers
I'm gonna tell this right now using these tools is not cheating on your end it is not
being lazy what it is is maximizing your time and getting a good thing I know so many teachers

(01:22:30):
afraid to use this because they're like well then am I really a teacher if I didn't craft
this from scratch yes yes you are you're gonna review it I'm not saying like hit go print
and don't ever look at it you're just make sure it's your level of rigor and quality
but instead of taking an hour to think design you typed in the prompt you asked it what
to do and 15 seconds later you have a thing you can review and possibly have these these

(01:22:53):
tools are helping educators meet the intense needs of the job so I do like you that you
address that you know we should not feel shame guilt for utilizing resources and tools that
are simply helping us keep up for the most part I mean not even so much getting ahead
it's great if you're able to enter that space of the race but it's really just helping us

(01:23:16):
keep up so no longer we're gonna feel shame or any kind of guilt or embarrassment or less
than if we're leveraging you know these these kind of things absolutely I just think these
are just a couple there's so many out there but it's way easier to do it that way play
around with them and again nobody's saying stop doing it your old way you start to utilize

(01:23:38):
these tools look at it you start small you know if you maybe you make bell work every
day instead of crafting those questions that has a question generator maybe type that in
and save yourself those 20 minutes of making your bell work and you can copy you could
put those in there those those little steps were taking the lesson that exhaustion how
happy are you going to be and your spouse is going to be and your children are going

(01:23:59):
to be when normally you come in and be like okay I just have to grade these papers and
make my bell work guys then I'm yours and that's normally let's say a 45 minute to an
hour practice and they're like okay and that's their standard thing how happy are all of
you going to be when you say that and if you're able to find a tool like this or find a strategy
like this 15 minutes later you're like all right let's go on a walk or hey let's hang

(01:24:23):
out let's go outside throw the ball around you know they're gonna be like oh yeah cool
you know they're gonna be so excited that they've kind of put in their mind this thing
and guess what you've gotten the same thing done you used to you got bell work you reviewed
it it's high quality it's to your standards and you've given yourself 45 minutes of your
life back that they didn't expect that lessens exhaustion that makes your family feel better

(01:24:47):
that makes you go into work the next day with a smile on your face instead of feeling guilty
of gosh I worked longer and I needed to I barely got to hang out with my kids you're
less exhausted and that that kind of feels like a great place to sort of land that plane
there you know we've given them some practical tools resources strategies tips but ultimately

(01:25:13):
at the end of the day you want to be able to say I've given my best at work I've been
present at home I'm living a balanced life easier said than done remember that progress
equals happiness none of this gets figured out overnight lean into the journey into the

(01:25:34):
process of creating a structure a system that can benefit you at home as much as at work
remember there's no shame in putting a little bit of work into how to make your home life
run smoother so that you're not overwhelmed overburdened by work at school seeping into

(01:26:00):
all other aspects of your life man really proud of the conversation that we've had
today doc I think this is not only healthy but pushes things forward in terms of giving
people some resources and tools do run a remind our listeners man to jump into our mailbox
episodes you know want that radical candor man tell us what you think tell us what's

(01:26:23):
wrong what you didn't like about some of the conversation points that we have but this
is a place for you to info dump let us hear it if your spouse doesn't want any more of
it man your siblings or your friend groups are tired of hearing about that put it in
the mailbox episode let's go we want to hear from you great conversation today man I've

(01:26:44):
absolutely loved it yeah I think it's been great I really appreciate it and I've had
a lot of fun and again yeah let us know I don't want to type up a whole email you know
we're on X at edu warfare use the hashtag educational warfare and just comment on us
you know quick one small ones if you have ideas strategy that'd be great to hear just

(01:27:04):
a little where what we're gonna do next so like dr. Jackson said next Tuesday be a mail
bag episode so while you're listening this think of stuff send us stuff in we'll do that
we'll talk to you and make you a part of this fight and then after that the following Tuesday
after the mail bag we'll have our third and final episode in this arc with exhaustion
the war within my friends the war at home with exhaustion is gonna rage on it's never

(01:27:29):
gonna stop we can lessen it we cut it down and that's what we're trying to do here so
thank you so much for listening Ryan thank you so much for being here I appreciate it
man absolutely man great conversation love it wanna again encourage our listeners embrace
the platform the podcast dive into our mail bag episode we want to hear from you the spicier

(01:27:52):
the better come on get this stuff off your chest you're dealing with a current teacher
you're dealing with a former principal former English teacher we're both knee deep into
all aspects of education so we want to hear from you directly but thank you for tuning
in thank you for checking out the podcast yes and make sure that you know share follow

(01:28:12):
the podcast give us a rating give us a review on whatever platform you listen to and tell
your friends about it that way we can all start to have this conversation so for dr.
Jackson I again want to thank you for being here thank you for your awesome comments from
the last mail bag and I hope to hear from you soon and thank you for being a part of
the fight

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