November 19, 2024 • 47 mins
You've Got Mail!
Dr. Jordan Lauer answers your questions and comments. Digging deeper into exhaustion at home with spouses, different ways teachers can be gaslighted by our profession, and balancing several preps, extra duties, while having a family. Thank you so much for your emails and keep them coming! Come join the discussion, and the fight!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to Educational Warfare. I'm Dr. Jordan Lauer. We're here with our mailbag
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episode today. So excited you could join us. We're continuing talking about exhaustion,
focusing on exhaustion at home like our last episode. You can find us to connect with us
to be able to be a part of this mailbag episode on X. We're at EDU Warfare. I use the hashtag
Educational Warfare. If you want to just make a comment, you can email us at educationalwarfare.pod
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at gmail.com. We are here for you. We want to hear from you. We've had so many great
comments. We have so many nice things. We really appreciate that from all of you. Just
being able to reach out to us, talk to us, even if it's just saying, Hey, I really appreciate
this. Or if you've got some great strategies and comments, it really means a lot to us
because our whole goal here is not just to talk to you or at you, it's to make you a
(00:58):
part of this. So these are huge parts of this. That's the reason we do a mailbag after every
content episode. So we're not just bulldozing along with these ideas and these topics. We
want your feedback so we can see how you're feeling. Are we hitting the mark? Are we dead
on? Many of you have said that. Many of you have given great reassurance about what we've
(01:20):
been talking about and what we're doing. And we really appreciate that. So today we're
going to continue talking about exhaustion at home and how it affects us, how it can
affect our families, our spouses, our children, how it funnels back into work. Because if
we're feeling that exhaustion at work, it comes home with us. It doubles down there
and then boom, we're back at work. And now we have double the exhaustion because the
(01:43):
cycle continues. So we've talked about many things to be able to help that, some strategies,
some ideas. So I'm excited to keep going. And like I said, please keep these emails
coming. Please keep the comments coming. Reach out to us on the socials. It's been great
and we really appreciate it. Today we have a couple of emails. Let's get going on a couple
of those. You've got mail. Blake writes in, how does one manage and prioritize teaching
(02:10):
three different preps, which I have one standard, two honors and four AP classes, while also
sponsoring clubs, keeping up with PLCs, sports, gate duties, et cetera, all while having a
wife and young child. Blake, that's a great question. And thank you so much for emailing
(02:30):
in and asking and just being a part of this. I really appreciate it. Dr. Jackson really
appreciates it. So that question is basically the crux of why and how education attacks
all of us as educators. We're asked to do so much. And I love how Blake added that he
also has a wife and child and those things and the feeling of not being there for them
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adds even more to exhaustion. That's just a part we don't talk about. We get to this
point in our life where we all have families or working towards that, or at least have
spouses and you're doing your normal job and now there's just extra things. So I love that
you add that in. So Blake, Dr. Jackson and I discussed last episode, the war at home.
(03:12):
It starts with making a plan of when you work while at home and share that with your wife.
You make her a part of that plan. You don't just come in and be like, oh, hey, I've got
this plan. I'm going to work on Tuesdays and Thursdays for three hours to help lessen that
exhaustion, help lessen that feeling you're having with your family. If you guys work
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together on that and get her input, then now you're doing this together. You've conquered
this together. Those gate duties and everything, that's part of that. That's scheduling that.
Anytime I have something like a gate duty where I have to possibly work after school,
the first thing I do is text my wife and I say, hey, they want a couple of gate workers.
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I was thinking of helping out. How does that work? What do we have? We're just checking
calendars and checking schedules. That way it's not all of a sudden like I'm not here
because our spouses work. If you're all of a sudden not there because of a school duty,
then that's extra work on them. Possibly gets a little frustration going and now you're
(04:17):
having that conversation of, hey, you worked all week on your lessons and now you're all
of a sudden not here on this night and I'm taking care of our young child or our multiple
children. That's something we have to discuss too is most jobs, the type of work you do
is the work while you're at your office, at your location. Then you might have a little
(04:42):
extra things to do here and there. You're catching up on reports or whatnot, but that's
really it. For teachers, we have teach students, grade, all that. Then we have coming home,
lessons. Then we have these extra parts, these extra things that don't seem a lot at first.
When you're first starting the school year, you're kind of in that groove. Then as school
(05:04):
sports get going, they start adding up. It's like, oh, you have to work this gate. Oh,
we should probably go to this football game to support our students. Oh, there's a play
and those things just keep popping up. It is part of our job, but to possibly to a spouse
who isn't a teacher, doesn't work in that, it just seems like you're not home, honestly.
(05:28):
To us, it's this idea, again, we've talked about this, teaching is a profession of the
soul. We care. There's so much more to it than standing in front of class, delivering
information, checking for understanding, delivering more information, giving an assessment. It's
so much more than that. It is those little moments when a kid looks up and sees you in
(05:53):
the audience at the play, or you come up into them and talk to them after, or they see you
at the football game. Those just add into that. That's just a whole part of this huge
funnel of things that teachers have to do. You can't really just skip them. A lot of
us feel that tug and pull. Again, a big part of teaching is that emotional part. If you
feel like I'm just not there for students, it starts to exhaust you too, because you
(06:19):
get those ideas. Am I a good teacher? Do I care enough? Those type of things start to
weigh on you. What I like to do, Blake, is it's really tough. There's no way to really
manage that. I wish I had an amazing answer. One thing I've done where I've had multiple
preps and there've been several times or multiple preps for any non-teacher is that means that
(06:39):
you have a singular planning period, which is usually the same length of your classes,
so 48 minutes, let's say. But you have four... One year I had five preps, which means
I had five different subjects, but one planning. You basically have to play survivor with your
classes. It's like, sadly, contemporary issues, you've been voted off the island today and
(07:02):
you don't get any work during planning. You'll have to either scramble for something the
next day or now I'll be working at home. That's where this gets to. We're not just bringing
stuff home sometimes because we want to or because we're lazy. My planning period, I
don't have my feet up on the desk and I'm just leaning back, not doing anything or just
casually grading papers. My planning period, and so many teacher out there planning period,
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is just a mad dash. It's frantic, it's manic. If you get caught where you think you know
where something is or you think there's a resource you want to use and you can't find
it or it's just not working, you don't think it'll be good, and now you get caught into
looking for something else, you almost panic when you're in your head or like, oh my gosh,
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it's been 10 minutes and I still haven't even found an activity or even finished this activity.
It does feel like that. Often when we're bringing work home, it's not because we're lazy. It's
simply because we didn't get to it in the time we had. Bell to bell teaching is a big
time date. So you don't have much time at your desk. It's not even like you can walk
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over there and click through a couple things and do that. It's your planning. It's maybe
if you have a study hall class, you might be able to get some done. And then it's the
time you get after school before you got to get home or get to your kids' events and then
it's home. So the best I can say is just really work to be organized. I hope nobody thinks
I'm saying that to be facetious or, oh, be organized. Thanks, Dr. Lauer. I'm saying that
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as in figure out how you work, figure out how you attack things, figure out the speed
at which you attack things, and then start to organize yourself in there. When I had
multiple preps, I would try to, in my planning period, give myself 15 minutes per to organize
what I'm doing. I have 15 minutes in this class to get my activity, to make sure my
(09:00):
activities align with the standards, to make sure it's high rigor, to make sure it has
all those little check marks as teachers do so it's high quality and not just here's do
this as a time filler. That's actually progressing my students. And then I'd move on. Now then
any extra time I had, I could go into either grading something or finding something to
spice it up a little bit. Okay, I have this. Now this is a really cool video or this is
(09:23):
a little activity. But if I made sure that for each class, I got at least my plan done,
at least my thing done, then I'm not sitting at home scrolling with my laptop open, trying
to find an activity. If I do have to work at home or those set days, now we go back
to talking to your spouse, those set days where I'm going to grade. Now basically in
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my planning, I have that, I've made copies, I've, or I put it digitally and use that digital
thing and we have so many programs now like Cami and some of the built in systems that
just let them annotate online. They can just, each kid gets a copy and they answer it there.
Use that. You know, if you don't have time, you have multiple preps, instead of making
(10:09):
copies, you're getting the same thing. Let's be honest, the only reason you really don't
want to do it is because you don't like grading digitally probably because the kids, they're
used to that. It also on another level for the kids, it has, I really like the digital
assignments that they just turn in digitally because again, before we go to the kids, back
to teachers, I don't have to have stacks of paper I'm carrying home. You know, when you
(10:33):
have three classes of 25 or more, it's three stacks of papers I got to put in a bag, I
got to separate, I got to keep around, I got to find a place to put in my room until I'm
ready to bring it home. And then you still have two other classes probably. It's all
one play. It's digital. Okay. Now for the kids end, I really like it because one, they
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can't lose it. So that excuse is gone. Oh, I don't know where that worksheet is. Oh,
could you make another copy? Hey, I don't have that. And then you're like trying to
get the copy room or if you ever lucky enough to have a printer in your room, you're printing
off a couple of copies and now it's slowing you down because they had some time to work
on it yesterday and now they have to restart. So you're like, oh, we're going to do this
(11:15):
for 10 minutes and everybody should be finished. Then we'll do something else. Well, now that
kid has won't be done. So he's doing it for homework or you're going to wait on a couple
of kids. It just makes it to where they can't lose it. Two, it's also again, kind of going
on the can't lose it side. It's right there for them to study. And it really helps you
out insulates us because it's all of a sudden like, Hey, you know, if you have to contact
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a parent, why did my son not do well on the test? Ma'am, sir. I honestly don't know because
on our whatever system you use your, your LMS, you know, your management system, here's
everything that's up here. Here's a folder. Here's our assignments. You can click through
that and study it. There's some videos, there's a PowerPoint. It just helps those conversations
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because they can see how much the student had to study. And then it kind of turns towards
a student of you have all this and you still got that grade. It kind of takes that pressure
off you. I really like that. Use the digital. If you can that way it's, you're not worried
about making copies. You know, for anybody who's not a teacher, when you have this mental
plan in your head that I was talking to you with Blake of I'll have this much time to
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do this much, then there isn't few things worse when you are humming along on that plan.
You're like, I'm killing it. I've done everything. Now I just got to get my copies done in the
last 10 minutes of my planning for these classes. I all got worksheets and you walk in as a
teacher just literally making a copy of Moby Dick. It seems like, I mean, the each it is,
(12:49):
they have the copier using staples and you're kind of peeking around the copier acting like
you're not trying to see how much you're doing. And you see this stack of papers. It's so
thick and they're all staples. It's like, what are you doing? And you know, that's going
to, you're not going to get the time to make copies unless they're only making three copies
of that behemoth of a packet. You're not going to get time. And now you start to panic. It's
(13:13):
like, no, when do I do this? And now you're trying to do it after school. Hopefully, you
know, hoping nobody comes in after school to make copies. So using the digital really
helps that. And it just cuts that time off. And we're trying to maximize time and less
than exhaustion. So these little things, we can get used to it. You know, if you're so
used to handing out paper copies, there's a little time there where it's going to be
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uncomfortable. But then before you know it, you'll be sitting there. It's like, oh my
gosh, I can grade these papers at my kid's volleyball game when the JV is playing. So
I, and I'm not sitting there spread out on the bleachers with papers ever looking like
a crazy person. I just have my laptop on my lap and I'm clicking through them. And that
just makes you feel good. It's easier. So it's a great thing. So Blake, thank you so
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much. I hope those things help. Hopefully that just gives you a little idea and a little
help. So thank you so much. Our next email, Addie emails in and she says, I mean, and
this one completely echoes the email from Blake a few ago. She first says, thank you
for creating this podcast. You're very welcome, Addie. Thank you so much for emailing in.
(14:18):
She continues on. I often feel very isolated in my role as a teacher at our school. We're
expected to teach from bell to bell. So I just talked about, right. And then with supervision
duties before school, during transitions and after school, during our planning periods,
we have multiple meetings each week and meeting several days after school, leaving us with
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only a few valuable minutes to actually prepare. We're lucky to have even 20 minutes for lunch
after supervising students and going to the bathroom. With so little time to connect with
other educators, I often feel like I'm alone in my exhaustion and the challenges I'm facing.
On top of that, it feels like teachers are constantly being gaslit by students, parents,
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administration, the state and society at large. Your podcast has been a source of reassurance
reminding me that I'm not alone and that my experiences are valid. Thank you for that.
Kinder words could not be said, Addie. That's the whole point of this show is that we want
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to make sure you feel not alone, that you understand. We're all in this together. And
if nothing else, just the idea that we can talk about this, that we can get it out there
is our whole goal. So thank you so much for sending those kind words in. Thank you so
much for reaching out. And we hope Dr. Jackson, I really hope that we continue to help people
feel that way, that they have support, that they have other people that are feeling this.
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And that connectivity often allows us to develop the courage to walk up to other teachers and
say, I'm feeling this. I am feeling worn out from this. How are you feeling? Are you feeling
the same way? Possibly saying, could you help me? If you feel alone, we naturally start
(16:12):
to doubt ourselves. We naturally start to say, this is a me problem. I am feeling this
because I am doing something wrong. Or, and I hope we don't get to this, but it's possible,
there is something wrong with me. It's a vortex of darkness and we don't want anybody to go
down that because you feel like maybe I'm not cut out for this. Maybe we're not very
(16:33):
good at this. And then you have the other doubts. Maybe I've made bad life decisions.
Maybe have I wasted this much time because I'm just not good at it. You are. You're doing
it and you're doing way better than you think. We are our hardest critics. So a big part
of that is that we want all teachers, all professionals, principals, admin, anybody
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listen to this. You're not alone in any of these feelings and you can talk to people
and it's nothing wrong with being vulnerable. Even if you talk to somebody and they're like,
no, I'm actually doing pretty good. I think I've got a really good system going. That's
not to shame you and then make you go into the dark vortex again. Now you can follow
up with, that's amazing. What are you doing? Are you doing something different this year
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that's really helping? Boom, now we're sharing practices. Maybe they give you one thing that
works for you that lightens your load. Hopefully we give you things that lighten your load
and you start to chip away at that. Such an amazing point. I love the point you made about
teachers being gaslit. It's something we don't think about, but it is exhausting that we
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can work so hard and there's some that still want to lie to us or try to take our power
away. That we're doing this job and you think like, hey, we're doing this job so sure, we'll
get a bunch of support from the outside world because we're doing this job. And then it's
gaslighting. It's blaming. It's questioning tactics. And all of us teachers are like,
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okay, I guess you want us to do this job the way after all of our training and learning
and experience, you want us to do all the stuff we're doing on top of these things you're
saying we should do that you don't have much of a practical idea on? Awesome. Thanks.
To kind of hammer in this point, there's a great article from weareteachers.com by Jill
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Wiley called Six Ways I Realized US Teachers Are Being Gaslit Beyond Belief. Miss Wiley
came back to teach in the US after spending several years teaching in Norway. And after
coming back, you know, she now with that experience, she could compare the areas. And she discovered
there are several areas US teachers are being gaslit are being taken for granted from and
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having their power taken. You know, first one she talks about is teaching the US are
guilty until proven innocent. She says in the United States, I would likely have been
scrutinized to see where I contributed to the situation. Years of having administrators,
parents, even elected officials second guess our every move have conditioned teachers to
(19:09):
doubt ourselves and our abilities. Wow, preach sister, right? Like that's the that's it right
there. What's the common thing you hear from the outside world? And I've seen this with
so many of my friends. My wife has put things on social media and you know, social media
as a time to be the ability to be toxic. We very well could do a three episode arc on
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social media for what it's doing to students, what it's doing for us, what it's doing for,
you know, teaching us profession. It's such a deep area. But you know, even my wife, there's
been some people on there, she just puts out a very not blaming anybody, just like kind
of doing what we're doing here, throwing how she feels out there being vulnerable. And
there are some people out there. And the crazy thing to me is especially like on Facebook,
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and it's legit your real name. Some people say these things. I'm like, wow, you got some
chutzpah my friend, because I would not go after somebody's profession and just with
like a blanket will do this. You know, so you put out there and sadly, we are asked
to basically defend what we did in a situation. You know, if you talk about, oh, there I have
(20:14):
disrespectful students. What's the refrain? Well, you should build better relationships.
Okay, thanks. Yeah, didn't think of that. Or there's a fight in the classroom. Why didn't
you notice the tension building to defuse it? Well, I'm sorry, I was walking around
trying to do high rigor with 27 other students sitting down and building those relationships
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you said I should build better ones with each kid, making sure they feel that they're supportive.
And I just didn't happen to notice that, you know, two kids across the room of my 27 were
starting to get a little testy with each other. Students are failing a class. What's the often
refrain? Adjust your expectations. These kids have been going through a lot lately. You
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know, we get so many of that, you know, adjust your expectations. My expectations are what
I've been there, what the districts are. There are my expectations are, frankly, what we've
had forever. Same expectations when you were in school. You know, there's nothing different.
So adjusting it is a strange thing to do. And it's also interesting because one of the
(21:20):
reasons we're exhausted is because does anybody ever adjust their expectations for us when
we're adults? No, right? I mean, that's one of the issues you could probably feel exhausted
for being a teacher. And we'll talk about that next week is we in the USA often feel
even bad when we're going to take a sick day when we're on death's doorstep. Laying in
bed can barely move. You got Kleenex shoved up your nose and you're still like assessing
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like if I took, you know, three day quill tablets, would I be okay to go teach? Right?
Nobody says, oh, you know, we don't have that here. So adjust those expectations. Very difficult.
And also parents can gaslight us too. That's a difficult part. You all, you know, you come
into this thinking like I have an advocate and parents, right? They can gaslight us.
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I need, you know, parents and I know we all, most of us have children, but parents out
there, we need to understand it's not teachers jobs to drop everything for your student or
to adjust their grade. What happens in the classroom where we get a grade or forget some,
we've already laid expectations. We've already set due dates and reminded them of them ad
(22:30):
nauseam. We have remediation periods. We have tutoring time. So at some point your child
just didn't do the work or didn't do it well enough. And it's not the schools, administrations
or teachers fault. It's their fault. And it's your job as a parent, because we, I promise
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you we're doing this every day to point that out to them. I don't know any teachers and
emails at educational warfare dot pod or gmail.com. If you do, you know, you don't have to say
names of course, but like if you've seen this, but I don't know any teachers who just a kid
fails or constantly turn stuff in late and they never talk to them. You know, this is
(23:14):
not an online college class, but the online college class, you just, your professor, you're
working in that. I know Dr. Jackson's done some of that. I've done a little, a few things
with that. You know, you check your inbox, your management system, the stuff's in there,
your grade, the stuff that's not your mark is missing and boom, move on. They paid for
this. You told them when it's due, they're not going to make it do. They get that bad
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grade. That's not how public education, it's not how a classroom works. If I look at my
grade book and Timmy has four missing assignments, I don't go marrying along. You know, I kind
of, I call a parent, I bring Timmy up there and I'm like, Hey Timmy, I noticed you're
missing these four. What's going on? You know, why aren't they in here? What do you need
(23:56):
help with? Which couple could we work on? Like now that we could just get turned in,
you know, what are the easiest ones to knock out? We already set these strategies. So when
you, then you see your kid's final grade or a progress report grade and parents call in
and are like, you know, my kid had a soccer game and then they had, we had family in town
(24:19):
and they just didn't have time to do it. And you know, I don't know what are you doing
in class to help them? It's like, no, they've been warned. They've been told, they know
expectations. What have they been doing at home after that soccer game? You know, all,
all three of my kids are in sports and everything else you could possibly imagine other in sports.
(24:42):
You get done with the game. It's eight o'clock. They shower. There's a little time there.
You know, that's part of being a part of other things is your personal time is limited, especially
when you have something due. So just like we're talking with our planning, you got to
make some things where, Hey, after your shower, you need to work and you do a couple of things.
Okay. You can't just let this stack on top of it. Their life doesn't have many, Oh, okay.
(25:06):
Well, you got a soccer game or Oh, you're an adult in the job. Oh yeah. Your, your in-laws
came into town. Oh, you couldn't finish those. That's fine. We'll just hold off the entire
corporations meeting until you're done. It doesn't work like that. You got to do it.
So it is time to make sure we're not being gaslighted by parents. You've done nothing
wrong, but it feels like when a parent's coming at you saying that you do start to doubt yourself
(25:28):
because it's like, Oh, maybe I could have done more. No, you've set expectations. You've
been in class when you're fine. There's an age old tale of a parent saying, well, you
just don't like my kid. I'll tell you this a hundred percent truth here. Again, reach
out to us on X on email and just tell us your thoughts on this too. One, we're professionals
(25:50):
and we don't let our personal feelings get in the way of how a student, you know, you
may not, you know, if a student's difficult and just gives you a hard time, you may not
exactly, you know, be like, what's up, man? How you doing? You know, you might be not
super excited to see him cause you just don't know how they're going to react, but you're
also not, I don't, it would just be super petty. I can't even imagine just having a
(26:11):
kid who you just don't get along with and they turn in an assignment and you're like,
well, this looks like 85% work. I said B I'm arguing with 78 cause he annoyed me. Like
that is just unethical. You know, I can't even imagine doing that. So again, when they
say you don't like your kid, their kid, they're trying to hit you in an emotional spot. I'm
(26:35):
trying to kind of get you in that trap, but let's go back to what I just said a minute
ago. You have expectations. You have set due dates. You've most likely talked to them.
So the only reason that kid's grade is bad, like them or not again, cause we're not adjusting
grades. I'm not dropping a grade, a kid's grade 10 points because he annoys me. That's
(26:55):
just unethical. I'm the adult in the room. Like I'm not going to let a kid annoy me so
much that I'm willing to shatter my values and ethics. So the only reason that kid is
failing is not because we don't like them. It's cause they're not following the things
we've clearly said. They are not doing the work. So don't fall in that trap. If you don't
like my kid, you can simply, if you ever get that from a parent, very respectfully, we
(27:16):
talked about this in the first episode, say, sir, ma'am, I set the expectation beginning
a year. I constantly reinforce that expectation of when things are due. I gave it out. I told
them the due date. I monitored. I talked when it wasn't turned into the due date. I brought
them up. You probably most likely brought them to remediation and then either two things
(27:39):
happened. They still didn't turn it in or they turned it in. They just rushed and got
it wrong or they turned in half of it cause the remediation bell rang and they were just
like, well, here you go. That's why they're not failing. It has nothing to do with me
because I did all these steps to actually support your child and help them do well.
Now in your head, you're probably saying to you, you know, you're adding this, you know,
(28:00):
dot, dot, dot to support your child who makes third period every single day for 180 days
a struggle, but you're not going to say that to them, but you're thinking and that's fine.
You're thinking it. So we're professionals and two, if we didn't like a student, just
being honest here, you know, just radical candor, being honest. If we didn't like a
student, I'm not going to make an environment where that student has to possibly come back
(28:24):
in my class next year. I'm going to stress myself out two years in a row to be spiteful
and petty to a 13 year old, 14 year old, 15 year old, 16 year old. I'm a grown man. You're
grown women or grown people. I'm not going to do that. If anything, we would give them
good grades to be like, whoa, great job to me. Good luck in 10th grade. Good luck in
(28:48):
ninth grade. Good luck in 11th grade. It was great having you. Bye bye. You know, that's
what we do. So don't fall into that. That's just being gaslit. We're just, and they're
just trying to attack an emotional spot because then it can shift it from what have you done
with my kid to I can't believe out you're acting right now. So don't fall in that. You've
(29:08):
done enough. You do enough, you know, and keep doing those things. You can chip away
at those by saying, I've talked to them doing all this. So don't allow yourself to be gaslit.
The other thing she talks about is that teachers are tasked with filling the gaps that government
leaves for so many issues for our students in Norway. They have apparently according
(29:30):
to this article, several different government run by the country, uh, agencies and things
for when students are struggling with that emotional support. Each school has a liaison
for that because in America though, we, you know, we have things. I don't want anybody
to listen to this. Not a teacher to think that we don't have counselors and agencies do that. We do, but it is usually for the school. It's a school counselor. And then you possibly have to link with an outside one. This is multiple support systems for multiple things. It's not a one shot. Like, hey, school counselor, talk to them about what they're feeling. If it seems really intense or kind of possibly dangerous, then we get an outside counselor folks on that. This is for each. They have a liaison in the schools in Norway for depression,
(30:14):
for suicidal thoughts, for eating disorders. Like, like they have these things and that
they, it's not just the counselor doing it. They go to they like, they're in there so
you can immediately get that help. And that is just a support system. That's great. Uh,
you know, we're exhausted because we're, I'll tell you this teachers, we are rarely just
(30:35):
teachers. We often have to be a counselor, a protector, a tutor, a confidant, a psychologist,
a mediator, and so much more depending on what the kid needs. We wear so many hats,
we have so many, and that is exhausting. I love that take for the article that, you know, we just realizing how much we do can be exhausting. And there's often, uh, she also talks about that. We have
(31:05):
very little protection from toxic work environments. You know, that's, that's another thing that's so
exhausting at times is that you can go to work and you can know that you might have some issues with kids or it might be a difficult class or you have a lot of work to do. But when there's on top of that, either the administration is difficult to work with. And again, I don't ever, you know, Dr.
(31:27):
Jackson's is a former principal. I don't ever want anybody to think we're attacking administration or not. They work so hard. They are the, just the heart of the school often. Um, but like anything, sometimes it can be a hard mix. Sometimes you can have a
administrator who's just maybe not cut out for that. So they lean into, you know, checking on you and just making you feel like, good Lord, I can't do anything without an administrator peeking through my door, ask me why I'm doing this. And that's also exhausted. Or you have a coworker who just kind of makes your life hard. That they're just always complaining or, you know, asking you to do certain things or demanding or, Hey, why'd you do this? Cause I kid, a kid came to my class, said, you do this. It's like, Whoa. So we don't have
(32:14):
many protections from that. Uh, and might be an interesting thing to look into is that like, Hey, do we have a way to monitor what the climate of the working relationships are in the building and then adjust those? You know, because you go into, you know, again, we've talked about this first episode. Your administrator is also your evaluator. Also your boss, like the person who hired you. So how do you walk in that office and go, Hey, so
(32:44):
like you make my job really hard. Could you not, not do that? You know, it's a very difficult conversation to have. You know, and then you say, Oh, you could go to your sister principal. They're hired because of the boss. Like the head principal hired them. So were they going to be like, uh, so a bunch of teachers come up and said that you like make them not want to teach ever again. Could you please stop doing that? You know, it's hard for them. Cause now does it turn on them? Do you know, we don't ever
(33:14):
want to kill the messenger, but does it happen? So that's a very interesting idea that we may need to look into and be able to talk, talk to other teachers about it. So I love that. That's a great article. I love that point that Addie made. And thank you again so much Addie.
So next one, Alex wrote in, you've got mail and Alex said, I love the show and I appreciate you both bringing these issues up and really making them even more real and easy to talk about.
(33:43):
Thank you, Alex. I really appreciate you saying that because again, that's the whole goal. And I really, I'm so happy. So many of you are reflecting with exactly what Dr. Jackson. I want to do with this. It just, it makes me feel so good. So I really appreciate that.
So Alex continues, my wife and I both teach, but she is working way more than I do. We both have good scores and no, I'm not a coach, even though I'm a male teacher. I love how he had to throw that in.
(34:09):
So I pour myself into my job too. But when she is working on things well into the night and I'm just flipping channels or scrolling on my phone or reading for pleasure, I feel at the same time that I must not be doing as good as a job or as dedicated.
And that she is killing herself for a job and an eventual result that I get doing less work.
(34:33):
I don't want her to feel insulted and I definitely don't want to fight if I was to bring it up. But how can I talk to her about trying to work less so we can have more quality time together?
Alex, that's a great point. That's exactly what last episode was about. I really appreciate you being vulnerable and saying that because it is a difficult thing to come to because you as you're typing that or even thinking that you start being like, is this real? Is this just me being kind of whiny?
(34:59):
No, it's not. Your quality time is your quality time. We only get so much. I say that to my wife all the time. We get only a finite amount of time together and especially you only get so much time together when you feel good.
And that's my wife and I've always talked about. We want to travel and do things kind of now when we're youngish because I don't want to finally be able to go somewhere and have to have a walking stick because I'm 65 to climb up this hill or mountain to see this great site in another country.
(35:31):
I want to enjoy it when my knees aren't killing me. And so that quality time is yours. So it's not being whiny.
If the way you say it to her, like you asked, and it's great that you did that because so many of us just kind of blurt things out because we feel it and it explodes out. Then we have another time to thoughtfully think through it and craft the message in a way that really shares how we're truly feeling.
(35:53):
Because when you blurt something out, you're going with the first emotion you feel. If it's frustration, boom, that's how it comes out. It's anger. That's how it comes out. If it's sadness, you say it through tears.
And like gritted teeth, right? When you craft the message, you can then say it through a lens of multiple feelings. And it kind of lets them know, I am not attacking you. I'm just trying to talk to you about this.
(36:16):
So the nailed on head, his wife feels pressure to always be creating and tweaking and grading. And he doesn't want to feel the anger and resentment that could be causing the anger.
Unless those things are changed. So this is a two sided problem. Remember, often we look through problems through our lens of how we are feeling. We see them doing something and we're like, I feel this. They must not be. They must not care because I'm feeling this and they must be just rolling along.
(36:43):
But you have to ask yourself first before you kind of come in this conversation. What is she feeling in this case, your wife?
Why is she working that hard? She knows you're a teacher. It's not a surprise that you teach and I'm sure you both shared your effectiveness scores. She knows you're doing a good job.
So if she's never had the conversation of why aren't you working? If she's just accepted that you're not doing that and seeing you have good scores, she knows there's no surprises here.
(37:10):
So let's dig deeper on that. What's she feeling? Why does she feel the need to tweak? I guarantee it. Most likely the root of that goes back to what I said in our first mailbag episode.
This is a profession of the soul. She cares and you care too. I don't want Alex to think that I'm saying he does not care.
(37:31):
But she is feeling a deep connection that you most likely also feel, but you probably do in a different way. You may connect really well with your kids on a personal level.
You're doing this work and your care may come through the fact that they can come up to you and talk to you or they know they can kind of kid around and nothing disrespectful.
They know they can kind of kid around. It's not like a don't talk like that. You know, they can kind of get around and talk to you.
(37:56):
They feel safe there. Maybe that's how you connect and have that. She may care through. I want them to have the very best things that I produce for them that I give them.
So their learning is good and they feel that this is meaningful and they buy in. That is also caring. All of its caring.
So now you both feel that. How can we talk to it? And it goes back to what I said. I'm not saying that you're not caring.
(38:21):
So now you both feel that. How can we talk to it? And it goes back to what we talked about a from episode two, that article by Angela Watson, that truth for teachers.
Again, start with both you knowing that you care and want that time that you can discuss certain ways to limit things.
You go to her and say, hey, you have great scores. You're doing a good job. I know you want to work.
(38:45):
But let's again, it's the same answer I kind of gave to Blake. Talk. We have so many of these issues.
I see so many people who have these issues and they just haven't talked. You're assuming they think this.
You're assuming they know this. You're assuming all that. Put it out there and make sure you don't start in a confrontational way.
When you start off talking, start off with a diffuser. Say, dear, I know you love your job and you love your students.
(39:14):
You're doing a great job. Is there a way we could make a little more time for ourselves where you're still feeling that you're producing enough for them?
How could we get there? Because I want to spend time with you. I love you. That's why we're married.
How can we do that right there? You didn't start with, you know, it's really difficult to kind of be angry at hearing that because you acknowledged them.
(39:41):
You acknowledge what they're feeling internally. And then you said your reasons for it weren't because you're just sitting over here bored and alone and you're not paying attention to me.
It was I love you. I want to spend time with you. And then it was how can we do this together?
So right there, you've already defused the possible defensiveness. And this won't work every time.
(40:02):
Sometimes people are just defensive because but you've already possibly defused it. You've stated that you understand them.
You've given your very clear reason that's not, you know, just a complaint as you have a deep reason for it.
And then you've asked to work together. That's much better than just walking up being like you work every night.
I don't understand. Like, what can we do? Why? Why can't we just hang out?
(40:25):
OK, that is way better than that. So try doing those things from the from our last episode.
If you didn't listen to the last episode, please go listen to it. Share it. Like it. Give us a rating review.
We said set a date night. You know, you're feeling that you're scrolling.
It's a it's way better reading for pleasure while they're working.
If the night before you guys had a great time and a great meal together or you guys went, you know,
(40:49):
whatever your kid's situation is, you guys went and saw a Wednesday or Tuesday night movie because the tickets were cheap.
Now it's Wednesday and she's working and you're sitting there reading or scrolling or flipping through.
You're not going to feel that because you spent that time.
And, you know, as long as it's you're working through and say, hey, this may days was set that.
Again, don't take work on vacation. I've seen so many teachers do that.
(41:11):
Like you go into the beach, just, you know, going down to Florida to the beach.
I see so many tote bags that I see papers kind of sticking out of people carrying them inside.
Or I see you kind of come out on your balcony and you look left and right.
I've seen people just out there grading stuff because a lot of teachers go the same time fall break.
You know, this and you live in a certain area around the same time.
(41:34):
I've had friends who are teachers just have a bag there. Don't do it.
You're on vacation. Take a vacation. Be present.
You're doing a great job teaching. Those papers will wait.
This vacation, the memory you're making with your spouse, your kids, your friends, that's only in that moment.
It won't wait that day that you have to check out and leave.
(41:54):
It's coming. You can't delay it. So don't waste any of that.
Your papers will be there. And guess what? There will be more papers.
That doesn't end. So do that time.
Again, we talked about this a lot of stuff. If you bring stuff home, don't make it a big task.
Don't say, oh, the only thing I have to do tonight is make the entire unit for progressive era.
(42:16):
So no big deal. Just, you know, 30 years, about 50 important laws, acts, people.
I just had to make the unit for seven days of things and I'll be done.
That's a lot. You know, so if you bring something home quick, I got to grade this this test for this class.
Or I got to grade this set. Or, hey, I just got to go through and make sure that all the kids who turn this in on the digital system we talked about earlier and then email the ones who didn't.
(42:40):
OK, boom. Forty five minutes. That's that kind of lessons that.
And if you need a big workday, that's fine. But you know, say most of those days we have date night and this night most days and bring home a quick task.
And then you might have a big workday. So now you're now you all know what to expect.
So that is that's a great question. And I hope that helps.
(43:03):
It is a difficult thing, but just starts off by making sure you work to understand what they may be feeling and then have that conversation.
And don't be don't accuse them. You know, don't don't kind of be in their face.
Talk, show that you understand and try to work out a plan together.
And hopefully that starts to lessen it. My friends, this is where we're going to leave it.
(43:24):
Those are some great emails. There's some more. It's difficult to try to pick through, try to make sure the mailbag episodes aren't crazy long.
So try to pick through. So there's some that are that I might bring into other episodes.
But please keep emailing. Please keep reaching out to us. They really drive us.
They make us feel so connected to you. I've been teaching for 15 years and I feel like just from some of your emails,
(43:46):
I've learned so much more about educators and education itself, just reading them.
And that's because the power of you. You're good at what you do.
You are powerful because of that and you are making a difference.
You make a difference for kids, you're making a difference our world.
This is one of the most important things anybody can do.
(44:08):
And you are listening to this. You are making those assignments.
You are talking to those kids in the moments they need you.
You are correcting behaviors to help make sure that our society stays a society.
You are doing great things. And that's why we're here to try to talk about these and open it.
And please keep reaching out. You can find us on all the socials to reach out.
(44:31):
You know, we are on X at ED Warfare.
You can email the show, educationalwarfare.pod at gmail.com.
You can for all those who may have made the migration over to Blue Sky, we are there too.
And we'll be at Educational Warfare. Just search that at Blue Sky and we're there and connect with us on that as well.
(44:52):
Let us know you're there. We're all building those followers on the new thing.
Hopefully it'll be a happy place, a fun place, a different place for those who know what I'm talking about.
And when you do that, please use the hashtag Educational Warfare when you reach out to us.
So we can kind of build that and do that.
Our next episode is after this one, we're doing our third and final episode in our three episode arc on exhaustion.
(45:20):
It'll be the war within where we're going to talk about some of the issues that exhausting us and what it makes us feel,
how it affects our thoughts, our strategies, how it affects our home, how it can affect our health,
our mental capabilities. We've talked about what causes it at work and what it does to us at work.
(45:45):
We've talked about how it can affect us at home and how it can get even exacerbated at home.
But now this third episode that comes out next Tuesday, how it's just boiling inside of us and what it's doing to us
and possibly ways that we can cut that out and things that we can use to just slash that exhaustion to make us even healthier.
(46:07):
So again, thank you guys so much for emailing and allowing these mailbag episodes to happen.
They're so much fun and they're so meaningful and I really appreciate it.
Thank you for listening. Please share. Please tell us about the pod.
It is growing and it is it's exciting to see its growth and some of the reach we're getting.
(46:27):
But please keep sharing it. Let us get out there to as many people as possible.
If you enjoy it, just share it. If you haven't yet, please follow us on whatever you use.
We're on Spotify. We are on Apple podcasts. We are on Pandora. We're on Amazon podcast. Amazon Music.
We're pretty much everywhere. You find your podcast. So please follow if you like it.
(46:48):
Give us a rating and a review and share it.
Let others know because that just means the world does because we want to be out there for as many people as possible.
So I'm Dr. Jordan Lauer for Dr. Ryan Jackson.
Thank you so much for listening and thank you for being a part of the fight.
Welcome back to Educational Warfare. I'm Dr. Jordan Lauer. We're here with our mailbag
(00:10):
episode today. So excited you could join us. We're continuing talking about exhaustion,
focusing on exhaustion at home like our last episode. You can find us to connect with us
to be able to be a part of this mailbag episode on X. We're at EDU Warfare. I use the hashtag
Educational Warfare. If you want to just make a comment, you can email us at educationalwarfare.pod
(00:35):
at gmail.com. We are here for you. We want to hear from you. We've had so many great
comments. We have so many nice things. We really appreciate that from all of you. Just
being able to reach out to us, talk to us, even if it's just saying, Hey, I really appreciate
this. Or if you've got some great strategies and comments, it really means a lot to us
because our whole goal here is not just to talk to you or at you, it's to make you a
(00:58):
part of this. So these are huge parts of this. That's the reason we do a mailbag after every
content episode. So we're not just bulldozing along with these ideas and these topics. We
want your feedback so we can see how you're feeling. Are we hitting the mark? Are we dead
on? Many of you have said that. Many of you have given great reassurance about what we've
(01:20):
been talking about and what we're doing. And we really appreciate that. So today we're
going to continue talking about exhaustion at home and how it affects us, how it can
affect our families, our spouses, our children, how it funnels back into work. Because if
we're feeling that exhaustion at work, it comes home with us. It doubles down there
and then boom, we're back at work. And now we have double the exhaustion because the
(01:43):
cycle continues. So we've talked about many things to be able to help that, some strategies,
some ideas. So I'm excited to keep going. And like I said, please keep these emails
coming. Please keep the comments coming. Reach out to us on the socials. It's been great
and we really appreciate it. Today we have a couple of emails. Let's get going on a couple
of those. You've got mail. Blake writes in, how does one manage and prioritize teaching
(02:10):
three different preps, which I have one standard, two honors and four AP classes, while also
sponsoring clubs, keeping up with PLCs, sports, gate duties, et cetera, all while having a
wife and young child. Blake, that's a great question. And thank you so much for emailing
(02:30):
in and asking and just being a part of this. I really appreciate it. Dr. Jackson really
appreciates it. So that question is basically the crux of why and how education attacks
all of us as educators. We're asked to do so much. And I love how Blake added that he
also has a wife and child and those things and the feeling of not being there for them
(02:52):
adds even more to exhaustion. That's just a part we don't talk about. We get to this
point in our life where we all have families or working towards that, or at least have
spouses and you're doing your normal job and now there's just extra things. So I love that
you add that in. So Blake, Dr. Jackson and I discussed last episode, the war at home.
(03:12):
It starts with making a plan of when you work while at home and share that with your wife.
You make her a part of that plan. You don't just come in and be like, oh, hey, I've got
this plan. I'm going to work on Tuesdays and Thursdays for three hours to help lessen that
exhaustion, help lessen that feeling you're having with your family. If you guys work
(03:33):
together on that and get her input, then now you're doing this together. You've conquered
this together. Those gate duties and everything, that's part of that. That's scheduling that.
Anytime I have something like a gate duty where I have to possibly work after school,
the first thing I do is text my wife and I say, hey, they want a couple of gate workers.
(03:56):
I was thinking of helping out. How does that work? What do we have? We're just checking
calendars and checking schedules. That way it's not all of a sudden like I'm not here
because our spouses work. If you're all of a sudden not there because of a school duty,
then that's extra work on them. Possibly gets a little frustration going and now you're
(04:17):
having that conversation of, hey, you worked all week on your lessons and now you're all
of a sudden not here on this night and I'm taking care of our young child or our multiple
children. That's something we have to discuss too is most jobs, the type of work you do
is the work while you're at your office, at your location. Then you might have a little
(04:42):
extra things to do here and there. You're catching up on reports or whatnot, but that's
really it. For teachers, we have teach students, grade, all that. Then we have coming home,
lessons. Then we have these extra parts, these extra things that don't seem a lot at first.
When you're first starting the school year, you're kind of in that groove. Then as school
(05:04):
sports get going, they start adding up. It's like, oh, you have to work this gate. Oh,
we should probably go to this football game to support our students. Oh, there's a play
and those things just keep popping up. It is part of our job, but to possibly to a spouse
who isn't a teacher, doesn't work in that, it just seems like you're not home, honestly.
(05:28):
To us, it's this idea, again, we've talked about this, teaching is a profession of the
soul. We care. There's so much more to it than standing in front of class, delivering
information, checking for understanding, delivering more information, giving an assessment. It's
so much more than that. It is those little moments when a kid looks up and sees you in
(05:53):
the audience at the play, or you come up into them and talk to them after, or they see you
at the football game. Those just add into that. That's just a whole part of this huge
funnel of things that teachers have to do. You can't really just skip them. A lot of
us feel that tug and pull. Again, a big part of teaching is that emotional part. If you
feel like I'm just not there for students, it starts to exhaust you too, because you
(06:19):
get those ideas. Am I a good teacher? Do I care enough? Those type of things start to
weigh on you. What I like to do, Blake, is it's really tough. There's no way to really
manage that. I wish I had an amazing answer. One thing I've done where I've had multiple
preps and there've been several times or multiple preps for any non-teacher is that means that
(06:39):
you have a singular planning period, which is usually the same length of your classes,
so 48 minutes, let's say. But you have four... One year I had five preps, which means
I had five different subjects, but one planning. You basically have to play survivor with your
classes. It's like, sadly, contemporary issues, you've been voted off the island today and
(07:02):
you don't get any work during planning. You'll have to either scramble for something the
next day or now I'll be working at home. That's where this gets to. We're not just bringing
stuff home sometimes because we want to or because we're lazy. My planning period, I
don't have my feet up on the desk and I'm just leaning back, not doing anything or just
casually grading papers. My planning period, and so many teacher out there planning period,
(07:26):
is just a mad dash. It's frantic, it's manic. If you get caught where you think you know
where something is or you think there's a resource you want to use and you can't find
it or it's just not working, you don't think it'll be good, and now you get caught into
looking for something else, you almost panic when you're in your head or like, oh my gosh,
(07:46):
it's been 10 minutes and I still haven't even found an activity or even finished this activity.
It does feel like that. Often when we're bringing work home, it's not because we're lazy. It's
simply because we didn't get to it in the time we had. Bell to bell teaching is a big
time date. So you don't have much time at your desk. It's not even like you can walk
(08:08):
over there and click through a couple things and do that. It's your planning. It's maybe
if you have a study hall class, you might be able to get some done. And then it's the
time you get after school before you got to get home or get to your kids' events and then
it's home. So the best I can say is just really work to be organized. I hope nobody thinks
I'm saying that to be facetious or, oh, be organized. Thanks, Dr. Lauer. I'm saying that
(08:35):
as in figure out how you work, figure out how you attack things, figure out the speed
at which you attack things, and then start to organize yourself in there. When I had
multiple preps, I would try to, in my planning period, give myself 15 minutes per to organize
what I'm doing. I have 15 minutes in this class to get my activity, to make sure my
(09:00):
activities align with the standards, to make sure it's high rigor, to make sure it has
all those little check marks as teachers do so it's high quality and not just here's do
this as a time filler. That's actually progressing my students. And then I'd move on. Now then
any extra time I had, I could go into either grading something or finding something to
spice it up a little bit. Okay, I have this. Now this is a really cool video or this is
(09:23):
a little activity. But if I made sure that for each class, I got at least my plan done,
at least my thing done, then I'm not sitting at home scrolling with my laptop open, trying
to find an activity. If I do have to work at home or those set days, now we go back
to talking to your spouse, those set days where I'm going to grade. Now basically in
(09:46):
my planning, I have that, I've made copies, I've, or I put it digitally and use that digital
thing and we have so many programs now like Cami and some of the built in systems that
just let them annotate online. They can just, each kid gets a copy and they answer it there.
Use that. You know, if you don't have time, you have multiple preps, instead of making
(10:09):
copies, you're getting the same thing. Let's be honest, the only reason you really don't
want to do it is because you don't like grading digitally probably because the kids, they're
used to that. It also on another level for the kids, it has, I really like the digital
assignments that they just turn in digitally because again, before we go to the kids, back
to teachers, I don't have to have stacks of paper I'm carrying home. You know, when you
(10:33):
have three classes of 25 or more, it's three stacks of papers I got to put in a bag, I
got to separate, I got to keep around, I got to find a place to put in my room until I'm
ready to bring it home. And then you still have two other classes probably. It's all
one play. It's digital. Okay. Now for the kids end, I really like it because one, they
(10:54):
can't lose it. So that excuse is gone. Oh, I don't know where that worksheet is. Oh,
could you make another copy? Hey, I don't have that. And then you're like trying to
get the copy room or if you ever lucky enough to have a printer in your room, you're printing
off a couple of copies and now it's slowing you down because they had some time to work
on it yesterday and now they have to restart. So you're like, oh, we're going to do this
(11:15):
for 10 minutes and everybody should be finished. Then we'll do something else. Well, now that
kid has won't be done. So he's doing it for homework or you're going to wait on a couple
of kids. It just makes it to where they can't lose it. Two, it's also again, kind of going
on the can't lose it side. It's right there for them to study. And it really helps you
out insulates us because it's all of a sudden like, Hey, you know, if you have to contact
(11:39):
a parent, why did my son not do well on the test? Ma'am, sir. I honestly don't know because
on our whatever system you use your, your LMS, you know, your management system, here's
everything that's up here. Here's a folder. Here's our assignments. You can click through
that and study it. There's some videos, there's a PowerPoint. It just helps those conversations
(12:02):
because they can see how much the student had to study. And then it kind of turns towards
a student of you have all this and you still got that grade. It kind of takes that pressure
off you. I really like that. Use the digital. If you can that way it's, you're not worried
about making copies. You know, for anybody who's not a teacher, when you have this mental
plan in your head that I was talking to you with Blake of I'll have this much time to
(12:26):
do this much, then there isn't few things worse when you are humming along on that plan.
You're like, I'm killing it. I've done everything. Now I just got to get my copies done in the
last 10 minutes of my planning for these classes. I all got worksheets and you walk in as a
teacher just literally making a copy of Moby Dick. It seems like, I mean, the each it is,
(12:49):
they have the copier using staples and you're kind of peeking around the copier acting like
you're not trying to see how much you're doing. And you see this stack of papers. It's so
thick and they're all staples. It's like, what are you doing? And you know, that's going
to, you're not going to get the time to make copies unless they're only making three copies
of that behemoth of a packet. You're not going to get time. And now you start to panic. It's
(13:13):
like, no, when do I do this? And now you're trying to do it after school. Hopefully, you
know, hoping nobody comes in after school to make copies. So using the digital really
helps that. And it just cuts that time off. And we're trying to maximize time and less
than exhaustion. So these little things, we can get used to it. You know, if you're so
used to handing out paper copies, there's a little time there where it's going to be
(13:34):
uncomfortable. But then before you know it, you'll be sitting there. It's like, oh my
gosh, I can grade these papers at my kid's volleyball game when the JV is playing. So
I, and I'm not sitting there spread out on the bleachers with papers ever looking like
a crazy person. I just have my laptop on my lap and I'm clicking through them. And that
just makes you feel good. It's easier. So it's a great thing. So Blake, thank you so
(13:56):
much. I hope those things help. Hopefully that just gives you a little idea and a little
help. So thank you so much. Our next email, Addie emails in and she says, I mean, and
this one completely echoes the email from Blake a few ago. She first says, thank you
for creating this podcast. You're very welcome, Addie. Thank you so much for emailing in.
(14:18):
She continues on. I often feel very isolated in my role as a teacher at our school. We're
expected to teach from bell to bell. So I just talked about, right. And then with supervision
duties before school, during transitions and after school, during our planning periods,
we have multiple meetings each week and meeting several days after school, leaving us with
(14:41):
only a few valuable minutes to actually prepare. We're lucky to have even 20 minutes for lunch
after supervising students and going to the bathroom. With so little time to connect with
other educators, I often feel like I'm alone in my exhaustion and the challenges I'm facing.
On top of that, it feels like teachers are constantly being gaslit by students, parents,
(15:04):
administration, the state and society at large. Your podcast has been a source of reassurance
reminding me that I'm not alone and that my experiences are valid. Thank you for that.
Kinder words could not be said, Addie. That's the whole point of this show is that we want
(15:26):
to make sure you feel not alone, that you understand. We're all in this together. And
if nothing else, just the idea that we can talk about this, that we can get it out there
is our whole goal. So thank you so much for sending those kind words in. Thank you so
much for reaching out. And we hope Dr. Jackson, I really hope that we continue to help people
feel that way, that they have support, that they have other people that are feeling this.
(15:50):
And that connectivity often allows us to develop the courage to walk up to other teachers and
say, I'm feeling this. I am feeling worn out from this. How are you feeling? Are you feeling
the same way? Possibly saying, could you help me? If you feel alone, we naturally start
(16:12):
to doubt ourselves. We naturally start to say, this is a me problem. I am feeling this
because I am doing something wrong. Or, and I hope we don't get to this, but it's possible,
there is something wrong with me. It's a vortex of darkness and we don't want anybody to go
down that because you feel like maybe I'm not cut out for this. Maybe we're not very
(16:33):
good at this. And then you have the other doubts. Maybe I've made bad life decisions.
Maybe have I wasted this much time because I'm just not good at it. You are. You're doing
it and you're doing way better than you think. We are our hardest critics. So a big part
of that is that we want all teachers, all professionals, principals, admin, anybody
(16:56):
listen to this. You're not alone in any of these feelings and you can talk to people
and it's nothing wrong with being vulnerable. Even if you talk to somebody and they're like,
no, I'm actually doing pretty good. I think I've got a really good system going. That's
not to shame you and then make you go into the dark vortex again. Now you can follow
up with, that's amazing. What are you doing? Are you doing something different this year
(17:17):
that's really helping? Boom, now we're sharing practices. Maybe they give you one thing that
works for you that lightens your load. Hopefully we give you things that lighten your load
and you start to chip away at that. Such an amazing point. I love the point you made about
teachers being gaslit. It's something we don't think about, but it is exhausting that we
(17:37):
can work so hard and there's some that still want to lie to us or try to take our power
away. That we're doing this job and you think like, hey, we're doing this job so sure, we'll
get a bunch of support from the outside world because we're doing this job. And then it's
gaslighting. It's blaming. It's questioning tactics. And all of us teachers are like,
(18:02):
okay, I guess you want us to do this job the way after all of our training and learning
and experience, you want us to do all the stuff we're doing on top of these things you're
saying we should do that you don't have much of a practical idea on? Awesome. Thanks.
To kind of hammer in this point, there's a great article from weareteachers.com by Jill
(18:24):
Wiley called Six Ways I Realized US Teachers Are Being Gaslit Beyond Belief. Miss Wiley
came back to teach in the US after spending several years teaching in Norway. And after
coming back, you know, she now with that experience, she could compare the areas. And she discovered
there are several areas US teachers are being gaslit are being taken for granted from and
(18:48):
having their power taken. You know, first one she talks about is teaching the US are
guilty until proven innocent. She says in the United States, I would likely have been
scrutinized to see where I contributed to the situation. Years of having administrators,
parents, even elected officials second guess our every move have conditioned teachers to
(19:09):
doubt ourselves and our abilities. Wow, preach sister, right? Like that's the that's it right
there. What's the common thing you hear from the outside world? And I've seen this with
so many of my friends. My wife has put things on social media and you know, social media
as a time to be the ability to be toxic. We very well could do a three episode arc on
(19:29):
social media for what it's doing to students, what it's doing for us, what it's doing for,
you know, teaching us profession. It's such a deep area. But you know, even my wife, there's
been some people on there, she just puts out a very not blaming anybody, just like kind
of doing what we're doing here, throwing how she feels out there being vulnerable. And
there are some people out there. And the crazy thing to me is especially like on Facebook,
(19:51):
and it's legit your real name. Some people say these things. I'm like, wow, you got some
chutzpah my friend, because I would not go after somebody's profession and just with
like a blanket will do this. You know, so you put out there and sadly, we are asked
to basically defend what we did in a situation. You know, if you talk about, oh, there I have
(20:14):
disrespectful students. What's the refrain? Well, you should build better relationships.
Okay, thanks. Yeah, didn't think of that. Or there's a fight in the classroom. Why didn't
you notice the tension building to defuse it? Well, I'm sorry, I was walking around
trying to do high rigor with 27 other students sitting down and building those relationships
(20:36):
you said I should build better ones with each kid, making sure they feel that they're supportive.
And I just didn't happen to notice that, you know, two kids across the room of my 27 were
starting to get a little testy with each other. Students are failing a class. What's the often
refrain? Adjust your expectations. These kids have been going through a lot lately. You
(20:57):
know, we get so many of that, you know, adjust your expectations. My expectations are what
I've been there, what the districts are. There are my expectations are, frankly, what we've
had forever. Same expectations when you were in school. You know, there's nothing different.
So adjusting it is a strange thing to do. And it's also interesting because one of the
(21:20):
reasons we're exhausted is because does anybody ever adjust their expectations for us when
we're adults? No, right? I mean, that's one of the issues you could probably feel exhausted
for being a teacher. And we'll talk about that next week is we in the USA often feel
even bad when we're going to take a sick day when we're on death's doorstep. Laying in
bed can barely move. You got Kleenex shoved up your nose and you're still like assessing
(21:45):
like if I took, you know, three day quill tablets, would I be okay to go teach? Right?
Nobody says, oh, you know, we don't have that here. So adjust those expectations. Very difficult.
And also parents can gaslight us too. That's a difficult part. You all, you know, you come
into this thinking like I have an advocate and parents, right? They can gaslight us.
(22:06):
I need, you know, parents and I know we all, most of us have children, but parents out
there, we need to understand it's not teachers jobs to drop everything for your student or
to adjust their grade. What happens in the classroom where we get a grade or forget some,
we've already laid expectations. We've already set due dates and reminded them of them ad
(22:30):
nauseam. We have remediation periods. We have tutoring time. So at some point your child
just didn't do the work or didn't do it well enough. And it's not the schools, administrations
or teachers fault. It's their fault. And it's your job as a parent, because we, I promise
(22:54):
you we're doing this every day to point that out to them. I don't know any teachers and
emails at educational warfare dot pod or gmail.com. If you do, you know, you don't have to say
names of course, but like if you've seen this, but I don't know any teachers who just a kid
fails or constantly turn stuff in late and they never talk to them. You know, this is
(23:14):
not an online college class, but the online college class, you just, your professor, you're
working in that. I know Dr. Jackson's done some of that. I've done a little, a few things
with that. You know, you check your inbox, your management system, the stuff's in there,
your grade, the stuff that's not your mark is missing and boom, move on. They paid for
this. You told them when it's due, they're not going to make it do. They get that bad
(23:36):
grade. That's not how public education, it's not how a classroom works. If I look at my
grade book and Timmy has four missing assignments, I don't go marrying along. You know, I kind
of, I call a parent, I bring Timmy up there and I'm like, Hey Timmy, I noticed you're
missing these four. What's going on? You know, why aren't they in here? What do you need
(23:56):
help with? Which couple could we work on? Like now that we could just get turned in,
you know, what are the easiest ones to knock out? We already set these strategies. So when
you, then you see your kid's final grade or a progress report grade and parents call in
and are like, you know, my kid had a soccer game and then they had, we had family in town
(24:19):
and they just didn't have time to do it. And you know, I don't know what are you doing
in class to help them? It's like, no, they've been warned. They've been told, they know
expectations. What have they been doing at home after that soccer game? You know, all,
all three of my kids are in sports and everything else you could possibly imagine other in sports.
(24:42):
You get done with the game. It's eight o'clock. They shower. There's a little time there.
You know, that's part of being a part of other things is your personal time is limited, especially
when you have something due. So just like we're talking with our planning, you got to
make some things where, Hey, after your shower, you need to work and you do a couple of things.
Okay. You can't just let this stack on top of it. Their life doesn't have many, Oh, okay.
(25:06):
Well, you got a soccer game or Oh, you're an adult in the job. Oh yeah. Your, your in-laws
came into town. Oh, you couldn't finish those. That's fine. We'll just hold off the entire
corporations meeting until you're done. It doesn't work like that. You got to do it.
So it is time to make sure we're not being gaslighted by parents. You've done nothing
wrong, but it feels like when a parent's coming at you saying that you do start to doubt yourself
(25:28):
because it's like, Oh, maybe I could have done more. No, you've set expectations. You've
been in class when you're fine. There's an age old tale of a parent saying, well, you
just don't like my kid. I'll tell you this a hundred percent truth here. Again, reach
out to us on X on email and just tell us your thoughts on this too. One, we're professionals
(25:50):
and we don't let our personal feelings get in the way of how a student, you know, you
may not, you know, if a student's difficult and just gives you a hard time, you may not
exactly, you know, be like, what's up, man? How you doing? You know, you might be not
super excited to see him cause you just don't know how they're going to react, but you're
also not, I don't, it would just be super petty. I can't even imagine just having a
(26:11):
kid who you just don't get along with and they turn in an assignment and you're like,
well, this looks like 85% work. I said B I'm arguing with 78 cause he annoyed me. Like
that is just unethical. You know, I can't even imagine doing that. So again, when they
say you don't like your kid, their kid, they're trying to hit you in an emotional spot. I'm
(26:35):
trying to kind of get you in that trap, but let's go back to what I just said a minute
ago. You have expectations. You have set due dates. You've most likely talked to them.
So the only reason that kid's grade is bad, like them or not again, cause we're not adjusting
grades. I'm not dropping a grade, a kid's grade 10 points because he annoys me. That's
(26:55):
just unethical. I'm the adult in the room. Like I'm not going to let a kid annoy me so
much that I'm willing to shatter my values and ethics. So the only reason that kid is
failing is not because we don't like them. It's cause they're not following the things
we've clearly said. They are not doing the work. So don't fall in that trap. If you don't
like my kid, you can simply, if you ever get that from a parent, very respectfully, we
(27:16):
talked about this in the first episode, say, sir, ma'am, I set the expectation beginning
a year. I constantly reinforce that expectation of when things are due. I gave it out. I told
them the due date. I monitored. I talked when it wasn't turned into the due date. I brought
them up. You probably most likely brought them to remediation and then either two things
(27:39):
happened. They still didn't turn it in or they turned it in. They just rushed and got
it wrong or they turned in half of it cause the remediation bell rang and they were just
like, well, here you go. That's why they're not failing. It has nothing to do with me
because I did all these steps to actually support your child and help them do well.
Now in your head, you're probably saying to you, you know, you're adding this, you know,
(28:00):
dot, dot, dot to support your child who makes third period every single day for 180 days
a struggle, but you're not going to say that to them, but you're thinking and that's fine.
You're thinking it. So we're professionals and two, if we didn't like a student, just
being honest here, you know, just radical candor, being honest. If we didn't like a
student, I'm not going to make an environment where that student has to possibly come back
(28:24):
in my class next year. I'm going to stress myself out two years in a row to be spiteful
and petty to a 13 year old, 14 year old, 15 year old, 16 year old. I'm a grown man. You're
grown women or grown people. I'm not going to do that. If anything, we would give them
good grades to be like, whoa, great job to me. Good luck in 10th grade. Good luck in
(28:48):
ninth grade. Good luck in 11th grade. It was great having you. Bye bye. You know, that's
what we do. So don't fall into that. That's just being gaslit. We're just, and they're
just trying to attack an emotional spot because then it can shift it from what have you done
with my kid to I can't believe out you're acting right now. So don't fall in that. You've
(29:08):
done enough. You do enough, you know, and keep doing those things. You can chip away
at those by saying, I've talked to them doing all this. So don't allow yourself to be gaslit.
The other thing she talks about is that teachers are tasked with filling the gaps that government
leaves for so many issues for our students in Norway. They have apparently according
(29:30):
to this article, several different government run by the country, uh, agencies and things
for when students are struggling with that emotional support. Each school has a liaison
for that because in America though, we, you know, we have things. I don't want anybody
to listen to this. Not a teacher to think that we don't have counselors and agencies do that. We do, but it is usually for the school. It's a school counselor. And then you possibly have to link with an outside one. This is multiple support systems for multiple things. It's not a one shot. Like, hey, school counselor, talk to them about what they're feeling. If it seems really intense or kind of possibly dangerous, then we get an outside counselor folks on that. This is for each. They have a liaison in the schools in Norway for depression,
(30:14):
for suicidal thoughts, for eating disorders. Like, like they have these things and that
they, it's not just the counselor doing it. They go to they like, they're in there so
you can immediately get that help. And that is just a support system. That's great. Uh,
you know, we're exhausted because we're, I'll tell you this teachers, we are rarely just
(30:35):
teachers. We often have to be a counselor, a protector, a tutor, a confidant, a psychologist,
a mediator, and so much more depending on what the kid needs. We wear so many hats,
we have so many, and that is exhausting. I love that take for the article that, you know, we just realizing how much we do can be exhausting. And there's often, uh, she also talks about that. We have
(31:05):
very little protection from toxic work environments. You know, that's, that's another thing that's so
exhausting at times is that you can go to work and you can know that you might have some issues with kids or it might be a difficult class or you have a lot of work to do. But when there's on top of that, either the administration is difficult to work with. And again, I don't ever, you know, Dr.
(31:27):
Jackson's is a former principal. I don't ever want anybody to think we're attacking administration or not. They work so hard. They are the, just the heart of the school often. Um, but like anything, sometimes it can be a hard mix. Sometimes you can have a
administrator who's just maybe not cut out for that. So they lean into, you know, checking on you and just making you feel like, good Lord, I can't do anything without an administrator peeking through my door, ask me why I'm doing this. And that's also exhausted. Or you have a coworker who just kind of makes your life hard. That they're just always complaining or, you know, asking you to do certain things or demanding or, Hey, why'd you do this? Cause I kid, a kid came to my class, said, you do this. It's like, Whoa. So we don't have
(32:14):
many protections from that. Uh, and might be an interesting thing to look into is that like, Hey, do we have a way to monitor what the climate of the working relationships are in the building and then adjust those? You know, because you go into, you know, again, we've talked about this first episode. Your administrator is also your evaluator. Also your boss, like the person who hired you. So how do you walk in that office and go, Hey, so
(32:44):
like you make my job really hard. Could you not, not do that? You know, it's a very difficult conversation to have. You know, and then you say, Oh, you could go to your sister principal. They're hired because of the boss. Like the head principal hired them. So were they going to be like, uh, so a bunch of teachers come up and said that you like make them not want to teach ever again. Could you please stop doing that? You know, it's hard for them. Cause now does it turn on them? Do you know, we don't ever
(33:14):
want to kill the messenger, but does it happen? So that's a very interesting idea that we may need to look into and be able to talk, talk to other teachers about it. So I love that. That's a great article. I love that point that Addie made. And thank you again so much Addie.
So next one, Alex wrote in, you've got mail and Alex said, I love the show and I appreciate you both bringing these issues up and really making them even more real and easy to talk about.
(33:43):
Thank you, Alex. I really appreciate you saying that because again, that's the whole goal. And I really, I'm so happy. So many of you are reflecting with exactly what Dr. Jackson. I want to do with this. It just, it makes me feel so good. So I really appreciate that.
So Alex continues, my wife and I both teach, but she is working way more than I do. We both have good scores and no, I'm not a coach, even though I'm a male teacher. I love how he had to throw that in.
(34:09):
So I pour myself into my job too. But when she is working on things well into the night and I'm just flipping channels or scrolling on my phone or reading for pleasure, I feel at the same time that I must not be doing as good as a job or as dedicated.
And that she is killing herself for a job and an eventual result that I get doing less work.
(34:33):
I don't want her to feel insulted and I definitely don't want to fight if I was to bring it up. But how can I talk to her about trying to work less so we can have more quality time together?
Alex, that's a great point. That's exactly what last episode was about. I really appreciate you being vulnerable and saying that because it is a difficult thing to come to because you as you're typing that or even thinking that you start being like, is this real? Is this just me being kind of whiny?
(34:59):
No, it's not. Your quality time is your quality time. We only get so much. I say that to my wife all the time. We get only a finite amount of time together and especially you only get so much time together when you feel good.
And that's my wife and I've always talked about. We want to travel and do things kind of now when we're youngish because I don't want to finally be able to go somewhere and have to have a walking stick because I'm 65 to climb up this hill or mountain to see this great site in another country.
(35:31):
I want to enjoy it when my knees aren't killing me. And so that quality time is yours. So it's not being whiny.
If the way you say it to her, like you asked, and it's great that you did that because so many of us just kind of blurt things out because we feel it and it explodes out. Then we have another time to thoughtfully think through it and craft the message in a way that really shares how we're truly feeling.
(35:53):
Because when you blurt something out, you're going with the first emotion you feel. If it's frustration, boom, that's how it comes out. It's anger. That's how it comes out. If it's sadness, you say it through tears.
And like gritted teeth, right? When you craft the message, you can then say it through a lens of multiple feelings. And it kind of lets them know, I am not attacking you. I'm just trying to talk to you about this.
(36:16):
So the nailed on head, his wife feels pressure to always be creating and tweaking and grading. And he doesn't want to feel the anger and resentment that could be causing the anger.
Unless those things are changed. So this is a two sided problem. Remember, often we look through problems through our lens of how we are feeling. We see them doing something and we're like, I feel this. They must not be. They must not care because I'm feeling this and they must be just rolling along.
(36:43):
But you have to ask yourself first before you kind of come in this conversation. What is she feeling in this case, your wife?
Why is she working that hard? She knows you're a teacher. It's not a surprise that you teach and I'm sure you both shared your effectiveness scores. She knows you're doing a good job.
So if she's never had the conversation of why aren't you working? If she's just accepted that you're not doing that and seeing you have good scores, she knows there's no surprises here.
(37:10):
So let's dig deeper on that. What's she feeling? Why does she feel the need to tweak? I guarantee it. Most likely the root of that goes back to what I said in our first mailbag episode.
This is a profession of the soul. She cares and you care too. I don't want Alex to think that I'm saying he does not care.
(37:31):
But she is feeling a deep connection that you most likely also feel, but you probably do in a different way. You may connect really well with your kids on a personal level.
You're doing this work and your care may come through the fact that they can come up to you and talk to you or they know they can kind of kid around and nothing disrespectful.
They know they can kind of kid around. It's not like a don't talk like that. You know, they can kind of get around and talk to you.
(37:56):
They feel safe there. Maybe that's how you connect and have that. She may care through. I want them to have the very best things that I produce for them that I give them.
So their learning is good and they feel that this is meaningful and they buy in. That is also caring. All of its caring.
So now you both feel that. How can we talk to it? And it goes back to what I said. I'm not saying that you're not caring.
(38:21):
So now you both feel that. How can we talk to it? And it goes back to what we talked about a from episode two, that article by Angela Watson, that truth for teachers.
Again, start with both you knowing that you care and want that time that you can discuss certain ways to limit things.
You go to her and say, hey, you have great scores. You're doing a good job. I know you want to work.
(38:45):
But let's again, it's the same answer I kind of gave to Blake. Talk. We have so many of these issues.
I see so many people who have these issues and they just haven't talked. You're assuming they think this.
You're assuming they know this. You're assuming all that. Put it out there and make sure you don't start in a confrontational way.
When you start off talking, start off with a diffuser. Say, dear, I know you love your job and you love your students.
(39:14):
You're doing a great job. Is there a way we could make a little more time for ourselves where you're still feeling that you're producing enough for them?
How could we get there? Because I want to spend time with you. I love you. That's why we're married.
How can we do that right there? You didn't start with, you know, it's really difficult to kind of be angry at hearing that because you acknowledged them.
(39:41):
You acknowledge what they're feeling internally. And then you said your reasons for it weren't because you're just sitting over here bored and alone and you're not paying attention to me.
It was I love you. I want to spend time with you. And then it was how can we do this together?
So right there, you've already defused the possible defensiveness. And this won't work every time.
(40:02):
Sometimes people are just defensive because but you've already possibly defused it. You've stated that you understand them.
You've given your very clear reason that's not, you know, just a complaint as you have a deep reason for it.
And then you've asked to work together. That's much better than just walking up being like you work every night.
I don't understand. Like, what can we do? Why? Why can't we just hang out?
(40:25):
OK, that is way better than that. So try doing those things from the from our last episode.
If you didn't listen to the last episode, please go listen to it. Share it. Like it. Give us a rating review.
We said set a date night. You know, you're feeling that you're scrolling.
It's a it's way better reading for pleasure while they're working.
If the night before you guys had a great time and a great meal together or you guys went, you know,
(40:49):
whatever your kid's situation is, you guys went and saw a Wednesday or Tuesday night movie because the tickets were cheap.
Now it's Wednesday and she's working and you're sitting there reading or scrolling or flipping through.
You're not going to feel that because you spent that time.
And, you know, as long as it's you're working through and say, hey, this may days was set that.
Again, don't take work on vacation. I've seen so many teachers do that.
(41:11):
Like you go into the beach, just, you know, going down to Florida to the beach.
I see so many tote bags that I see papers kind of sticking out of people carrying them inside.
Or I see you kind of come out on your balcony and you look left and right.
I've seen people just out there grading stuff because a lot of teachers go the same time fall break.
You know, this and you live in a certain area around the same time.
(41:34):
I've had friends who are teachers just have a bag there. Don't do it.
You're on vacation. Take a vacation. Be present.
You're doing a great job teaching. Those papers will wait.
This vacation, the memory you're making with your spouse, your kids, your friends, that's only in that moment.
It won't wait that day that you have to check out and leave.
(41:54):
It's coming. You can't delay it. So don't waste any of that.
Your papers will be there. And guess what? There will be more papers.
That doesn't end. So do that time.
Again, we talked about this a lot of stuff. If you bring stuff home, don't make it a big task.
Don't say, oh, the only thing I have to do tonight is make the entire unit for progressive era.
(42:16):
So no big deal. Just, you know, 30 years, about 50 important laws, acts, people.
I just had to make the unit for seven days of things and I'll be done.
That's a lot. You know, so if you bring something home quick, I got to grade this this test for this class.
Or I got to grade this set. Or, hey, I just got to go through and make sure that all the kids who turn this in on the digital system we talked about earlier and then email the ones who didn't.
(42:40):
OK, boom. Forty five minutes. That's that kind of lessons that.
And if you need a big workday, that's fine. But you know, say most of those days we have date night and this night most days and bring home a quick task.
And then you might have a big workday. So now you're now you all know what to expect.
So that is that's a great question. And I hope that helps.
(43:03):
It is a difficult thing, but just starts off by making sure you work to understand what they may be feeling and then have that conversation.
And don't be don't accuse them. You know, don't don't kind of be in their face.
Talk, show that you understand and try to work out a plan together.
And hopefully that starts to lessen it. My friends, this is where we're going to leave it.
(43:24):
Those are some great emails. There's some more. It's difficult to try to pick through, try to make sure the mailbag episodes aren't crazy long.
So try to pick through. So there's some that are that I might bring into other episodes.
But please keep emailing. Please keep reaching out to us. They really drive us.
They make us feel so connected to you. I've been teaching for 15 years and I feel like just from some of your emails,
(43:46):
I've learned so much more about educators and education itself, just reading them.
And that's because the power of you. You're good at what you do.
You are powerful because of that and you are making a difference.
You make a difference for kids, you're making a difference our world.
This is one of the most important things anybody can do.
(44:08):
And you are listening to this. You are making those assignments.
You are talking to those kids in the moments they need you.
You are correcting behaviors to help make sure that our society stays a society.
You are doing great things. And that's why we're here to try to talk about these and open it.
And please keep reaching out. You can find us on all the socials to reach out.
(44:31):
You know, we are on X at ED Warfare.
You can email the show, educationalwarfare.pod at gmail.com.
You can for all those who may have made the migration over to Blue Sky, we are there too.
And we'll be at Educational Warfare. Just search that at Blue Sky and we're there and connect with us on that as well.
(44:52):
Let us know you're there. We're all building those followers on the new thing.
Hopefully it'll be a happy place, a fun place, a different place for those who know what I'm talking about.
And when you do that, please use the hashtag Educational Warfare when you reach out to us.
So we can kind of build that and do that.
Our next episode is after this one, we're doing our third and final episode in our three episode arc on exhaustion.
(45:20):
It'll be the war within where we're going to talk about some of the issues that exhausting us and what it makes us feel,
how it affects our thoughts, our strategies, how it affects our home, how it can affect our health,
our mental capabilities. We've talked about what causes it at work and what it does to us at work.
(45:45):
We've talked about how it can affect us at home and how it can get even exacerbated at home.
But now this third episode that comes out next Tuesday, how it's just boiling inside of us and what it's doing to us
and possibly ways that we can cut that out and things that we can use to just slash that exhaustion to make us even healthier.
(46:07):
So again, thank you guys so much for emailing and allowing these mailbag episodes to happen.
They're so much fun and they're so meaningful and I really appreciate it.
Thank you for listening. Please share. Please tell us about the pod.
It is growing and it is it's exciting to see its growth and some of the reach we're getting.
(46:27):
But please keep sharing it. Let us get out there to as many people as possible.
If you enjoy it, just share it. If you haven't yet, please follow us on whatever you use.
We're on Spotify. We are on Apple podcasts. We are on Pandora. We're on Amazon podcast. Amazon Music.
We're pretty much everywhere. You find your podcast. So please follow if you like it.
(46:48):
Give us a rating and a review and share it.
Let others know because that just means the world does because we want to be out there for as many people as possible.
So I'm Dr. Jordan Lauer for Dr. Ryan Jackson.
Thank you so much for listening and thank you for being a part of the fight.
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