February 20, 2025 • 45 mins
Join us for an engaging and insightful conversation with DeJunne’ Clark Jackson, president of The Center for Literacy & Learning and a renowned literacy advocate. Clark Jackson will share strategies to break down barriers in delivering accessible instruction and interventions to students. She will delve into the complexities of dyslexia and other challenges that can impact a student’s journey in learning to read.
Clark Jackson will inspire listeners to recognize and address biases within and beyond the classroom, fostering better outcomes for both educators and students. In this session, she connects the science of reading to dyslexia, explains the foundations of equitable instruction, and offers evidence-based strategies that can be implemented immediately to help every child overcome reading challenges and thrive.
This conversation is a must for administrators and classroom teachers looking to make a difference. Don’t miss the opportunity to learn from Clark Jackson as she shares:
- Cooperative strategies and accessible instruction for all
- The importance of the science of reading as the bedrock for dyslexia support
- Evidence-based practices that engage students and families
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Episode Transcript
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Narrator (00:00):
Welcome to EdView 360.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (00:05):
We are creating, hopefully, citizens of
the world that will be able toapply what they've learned.
They will be meaningfulparticipants in society, but
society has to be welcoming ofthem, just like we expect the
K-12 system to adjust and adapt.
And so I really believe thatthis is only the beginning.
(00:26):
We are going to do great thingsfrom here, and I'm excited to
see it.
To envision it, I can.
If I could paint, I could, Ican draw it out, but I am
excited to be a part of what isto come next.
Narrator (00:43):
You just heard from literacy expert and advocate
DeJunne' Clark Jackson,president of the Center for
Literacy and Learning.
Ms Jackson is our guest todayon EdView 360.
Pam Austin (00:59):
Hello, this is Pam Austin.
Welcome back to the EdView 360podcast series.
We are so excited to have youwith us today for our February
Literacy Conversation.
I'm conducting today's podcastfrom my native New Orleans,
louisiana.
Today we are excited to welcomea respected literacy expert and
science of reading advocate,dijanae Clark-Jackson.
(01:20):
I'm thrilled to know and workwith Dijanae, another native
Louisianian.
Dijanae is the president of theCenter for Literacy and Learning
and she is a certified academiclanguage therapist and
nationally credentialed AETeducational therapist.
She is a dedicated, respectedleader with more than a decade
(01:41):
of experience supportingchildren and adolescents across
various stages of their academicjourneys, from early childhood
development to college readiness.
Clark Jackson has workedtirelessly to help students
achieve success in theireducational pursuits.
Dijoné is the founder ofLearning Fundamentals,
educational Therapy andConsulting, serves as president
(02:04):
of the Reading League Louisianaand is state leader of Decoding
Dyslexia Louisiana.
She actively contributes tostate-level initiatives such as
the Louisiana Department ofEducation's Dyslexia Bulletin
Workgroup, louisiana LiteracyAdvisory Commission and Special
Education Advisory Panel.
(02:24):
She is also the co-author ofthe Speech-Language
Pathologist's Guide to Dyslexia.
Welcome, dijanae.
Let's talk about breakingbarriers and advancing literacy
through equity in action.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (02:38):
Thanks for having me, Pam.
I appreciate this conversation.
Pam Austin (02:41):
It is going to be marvelous having this
conversation with you.
I'm sure our listeners want topick your brain and just learn
so much from your experiences.
You know, let's start off byhaving you share just a bit
about your journey and what ledyou to become a literacy
advocate and leader at theCenter for Literacy and Learning
(03:01):
.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (03:02):
Well, I don't know where to start with
answering this Gosh.
I often describe it like a catwith nine lives.
I've worn so many hats over theyears and lived so many
professional lives that reallyhave just prepared me for this
moment where I am right now.
I began, actually began my workin higher education first, so I
(03:26):
was the disability coordinatorand facilitator for students who
were incoming freshmen to helpwith their disability transition
into college, and that was sucha rewarding and, as you can
imagine, frustrating process.
But I left higher ed to run achild advocacy center where I
was working with our localdistrict attorney's office and
(03:48):
police departments to supportchildren of abuse and their
families, and so that was a lifethat was completely different
from the one that I'd left.
And from there, though, I jumpedheadfirst into K-12 education,
teaching pre-K through thirdgrade students, like getting
with those littles.
I was a school counselor, astudent service coordinator,
(04:11):
literacy interventionist, andthat's when I pursued my
certification in dyslexia.
But what I can say is that myjourney wasn't just my journey
alone.
It was actually my child'sjourney, and through his
education it's really.
That was the catalyst to whereI am today Just a staunch
(04:32):
advocate and believer in likethe perceived impossible, and so
I'm very grateful for thisjourney and all of those hats
that I've worn, all those livesthat I've led, that's led me to
lead the center as the presidentand with an amazing team of
other passionate educators andall other adjacent opportunities
(04:56):
that it's afforded me, and sothis is an amazing community to
be a part of.
Pam Austin (05:01):
Wow, it has been a journey.
Just listening to you speakabout the myriad of roles and
experiences that you've had, Isay that definitely gives you an
understanding of the vast waysthat we can support, not only in
that K-12 environment where youare, but across the board.
What does the center focus onas its goals?
(05:25):
Give us a brief overview ofyour purpose at the center.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (05:28):
Yeah.
So our purpose at the center isto create lifelong learners and
to have our educators make ahuge impact.
So the center was founded in1992.
So we just celebrated 32 years.
And we are an educationnonprofit whose mission is to
(05:50):
advance literacy and learningthrough evidence-based practices
in the classroom, home andcommunity.
And those three buckets are soimportant for us because not one
silo can do this alone.
And we often say it's not justthe responsibility of the
teachers, it's not just theresponsibility of families, it's
(06:11):
not just right, it takes thisvillage, it's this village
mindset.
And so the center helps to worktoward closing this achievement
gap by providing educators withprofessional learning that is
specifically designed to empowerthem to recognize, to assess,
to respond to the multiple needsof all of our learners, to
(06:48):
build on the science of reading.
That has resulted in positiveforward movement change for
schools and communities.
It's not just about the impactin that school building on that
student, on that family, butwhat does that mean for the
community at large?
And so obviously our pride andjoy, the apple of our eye, is
our Plain Talk about Literacyand Learning Institute that we
host annually in New Orleans,and for us and many people who
(07:12):
attend.
It is the nation's premierliteracy conference and it
brings together literacy andlearning experts and attracting
education industry professionalslike you, pam, into that space.
And it really is and when Icame on to the center I kept
using this term magical, like itreally is, this magical
(07:33):
experience like none other thatbrings folks together.
And so since then we've justfinished our inaugural Plane
Talk about Dyslexia Summit andso just wanting to bring that
additional awareness and magicto what we call our baby plane
talk, and so it's been quite apassion project since the moment
(07:55):
that I stepped foot into thisorganization, and we are just
really excited and really justproud to be just one part of
everyone's journey through thescience of reading and teaching
reading.
Pam Austin (08:08):
Yes, you know why this experience is magical.
There's a lot of work that goesbehind the magic and I know
that you are working behind thescenes, along with your staff,
to make it happen.
When we think about those threeaspects, I love it.
The classroom is where wenormally focus right what is the
teacher doing?
(08:29):
And the idea of empoweringthose teachers, because once
they know and understand andlearn, they will extend.
And then that home in thecommunity.
It all is so important and Ilove the way you speak to the
three being that experiencethat's going to make a
difference.
You know what I want to ask you.
You gave us a lot ofinformation about the myriad of
(08:51):
experiences that you've had.
What experiences have mostinfluenced your approach to
education and literacy?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (08:59):
You know all of my experiences.
I look at them as buildingblocks, right, all the things
that have sort of been stackedon top of the other to curate
and to create what you know,what we have today.
But as I look back, I think asa teacher of littles as I
mentioned pre-K-3, the babiesare my heart.
(09:21):
I don't know how those folksdoing with those middle
schoolers, but I will stay in mylane.
But as a teacher of littles, Ithought like many and my story
is not unique I thought that Iwas prepared to support my own
little in his journey.
But he struggled through schooland I didn't identify and I
(09:43):
wasn't aware of the depth ofknowledge that I needed to
support him.
And that as an educator, as aparent educator, it was
frustrating, it was sad.
I always say that in educationwe're, and as teachers we're
expected to show up for ourstudents that are before us.
(10:06):
But oftentimes, not oftentimes.
Sometimes some of us havebetter discipline than others.
Sometimes that's at thesacrifice of those red flags
that appear in your own child,right, and so there's some
underlying guilt to that.
And so I was just on thisjourney to find my why of
(10:26):
helping him to work through that, and so I was fortunate enough
to dive into those things that Ididn't know and to learn all
that I could learn, bothformally and informally, and
this led me to become this, youknow, and this led me to become
(10:49):
this, you know, connoisseur ofall information related to
dyslexia, ADHD and the like.
I really dove in to figure outone how to help my kid but also
it served a dual purpose,because I was still in education
.
I was still in the classroom,rather, education.
I was still in the classroom,rather and so I needed to help
the kids that were in front ofme, who I knew that the
(11:10):
information that I was learningwould impact them as well, and
so I was determined to not onlysupport, like I said, my child,
the children that were in frontof me, but to support teachers,
administrators, families like,and to really educate them in a
way that would have directpositive impact on students,
(11:31):
because it was a systemic issueis what I learned, and so I was
really determined to sort ofunpack and dismantle the system
that I found to not be reallysupportive, in a way that it was
transparent and available forus to help all kids.
Pam Austin (11:54):
Oh, that is definitely a major influence
there.
Just thinking about yourpersonal need to support your
child led you to expand yourknowledge, your growth, your
professional learning and we allcan learn more right, just
having that opportunity to gainthose experiences.
It's definitely had made animpact on the community itself
(12:15):
as a whole.
Thank you so much for all thatyou've done.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (12:18):
It's interesting how that journey you
just repeated that journeythere, dijoné Thank you so much
for sharing repeat of thatjourney there, dijanae, thank
you so much for sharing, if Ican really stress because again
I want to push the fact that mystory is not unique in how we
sort of stumble upon this.
I always say in the dyslexiawork that dyslexia is personal.
(12:39):
If you speak to many parents,many educators who are parents,
they came about this journey.
They didn't most didn't set outto even as educators didn't set
out to say I want to learnabout dyslexia.
It is something that impactedthem personally and that was
their catalyst to learn more.
(13:01):
And so when we know more, we domore, when we know better, we do
more.
When we know better, we dobetter.
And I think that everyone hasbenefited from our personal
struggle and that we canessentially pay it forward to
ensure that the next student,the next family, the next mom,
dad won't experience the initialhardships perhaps that we sort
(13:24):
of stumbled through.
And so I discovered this to betrue by listening to the stories
of those who were in my cohortof dyslexia therapist training
in my master's degree programand just to hear how everyone
sort of ended up in that firstday of class, whether they were
(13:47):
a speech therapist who decidedto expand their knowledge, many
were parents, many wereeducators and many were there
because it was this desire, thisinnate instinct to do and know
more, so that they could applyit to their immediate circle and
then sort of ripple effect thatto everyone else around them.
Pam Austin (14:11):
Definitely giving back to the community with the
support that they have learned.
Absolutely Excellent that painat forward.
You know those stumbling blocksbecome building blocks.
Yes, it's amazing.
So you describe challengesfaced by students with dyslexia.
What are some commonmisconceptions that are out
(14:32):
there?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (14:33):
Well, even in this year, there are
still so many commonmisconceptions.
Well, there are many challengesalso, but I find that just when
we feel like we've addressedthem all and surely we, you know
, we can get past those, youknow sort of 101 style
(14:55):
misconceptions or challengesthere's always someone who say
well, I always thought that Iwas told that or it was passed
down to me.
And so I think the biggestcommon misconception is that
dyslexia looks the same ineveryone and only affects
someone's ability to read.
And that was the biggestrevelation, not only in my own
(15:17):
life but in the lives of thestudents that I had before me,
was that this array and range ofhow the students with dyslexia,
either diagnosed or undiagnosed, were presented with, and so
those challenges varied fromperson to person with, and so
(15:38):
those challenges varied fromperson to person.
Dyslexia happens on a spectrumand we know that it can be mild
to severe.
And these common red flags, oryellow warning flags, if you
will, there are these earlyindicators that we can look to
to say, okay, let's look alittle deeper.
I think about the early years,things about like rhyming or
(16:00):
mispronouncing words.
So my favorite word formispronunciation is spaghetti,
when those babies say paschetti,and it's just so cute, and then
at some point it's not so cuteanymore and then we have to go
let's look into this.
But also understanding that itaffects spelling and speaking
and expressing ideas, and notjust reading, but the depth of
(16:25):
reading, which is decoding thewords at the root level,
substituting words when reading.
Oh, my goodness, those of uswho work with students who see
those habits that they've formedto just sort of get over it and
get through it.
And obviously writing isanother one that affects.
But dyslexia has alsonon-academic challenges and
(16:50):
those are the places that wefind ourselves sort of in some
sticky situations, what I liketo call it, those non-academic
challenges that we look at assecondary consequences.
That affects a person's social,emotional and behavioral
functioning.
That's things like anxiety andstress, avoidance or isolation.
(17:15):
You think about the child whosays my stomach hurts, I don't
want to go to school, or whoacts out every day at the same
time in Ms So-and-so's class,you know, misbehaving.
Well, they're avoiding, right,and so remembering things that
if we look back at patterns ofbehavior, that could really get
us to the point where we canfigure out that there's
(17:37):
something happening, even when Ithink about older kids.
So, as my kid, from the time hewas diagnosed in third grade to
the time that he's now a juniorin high school like I can't even
say that without getting a lumpin my throat there's this
evolution of how it affected himsocially.
So looking at things like inconversation, saying the wrong
(18:01):
words in his relationships withfriends, maybe remembering
things wrong.
So those are some things thatwe know, that there's again this
spectrum of challenges andthings that we need to look for
those indicators, whether earlyor evolving, but that we just
keep look for those indicators,whether early or evolving, but
that we just keep in mind thatdyslexia is not cut equally and
(18:23):
so we need to see and giveleverage to those who it
displays differently with.
Pam Austin (18:29):
Right, and I'm sure our listeners appreciate that
aspect, because we do hear aboutthe literacy and even the
communication.
But the idea of dyslexia beingon a spectrum different for all
students and actually thenon-academic areas, we know that
they exist but we normallydon't attend to those patterns
of behavior and across thetimeline of a student, as they
(18:53):
grow from year to year to year,that makes a difference.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
You know we talk aboutempowering male teachers, giving
them the information that theyneed to know, and we know that
there's definitely a connectionbetween the science of reading
and effective dyslexia support.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
DeJunne’ Clark Jacks (19:12):
Absolutely so.
The science of reading, as wedefine it with the Reading
League, is a body of research.
We're talking about how thisresearch is over 40 plus years,
and it helps to teach us how thebrain learns to read and write
and then why some students areexperiencing difficulty.
So they provide us withguidance on how to teach reading
(19:34):
so that more students can learnto read proficiently.
How to teach reading so thatmore students can learn to read
proficiently right, but this isreally critical for the
foundation of instruction forall students, let alone students
with dyslexia.
But I always say that dyslexiaresearch dates back centuries,
(19:56):
even from where it evolved, fromword blindness, in terms of
what it was perceived to be, andhow it's evolved to what we
know to be today as dyslexia.
So that science of reading isthe foundation that we need to
apply to students with dyslexia.
Without it, it is going to bedifficult to identify students
(20:18):
who struggle with dyslexiaversus those who struggle just
due to lack of appropriateinstruction.
Now, pam, as you might be aware,louisiana has made amazing
strides in the last four yearstoward remedying our reading
shortfalls.
Right At the onset, though, ofthis movement here in our state,
(20:40):
when funding was abundant, Iwrote a white paper explaining
the need to pour into our Tier 1instruction plan as a necessary
first step to our readingrevival.
It was appropriately titledFalling Through the Cracks is
(21:01):
Harder on a Solid Foundation andit spoke to the intersection of
the science of reading,research and practice and
dyslexia identification andintervention.
Because if we don't haveappropriate science of
reading-based research andpractice in our instruction for
(21:24):
all, then those students withdyslexia will continue to be
under-identified andmis-identified.
We have to.
Once we shore up that foundation, then those students who are
truly struggling with dyslexia,on whatever part of the spectrum
(21:45):
, we are then going to be betterequipped and better
knowledgeable to be able tosupport those students using
interventions that are beyondwhat we are doing for our
foundational reading instruction, and so that is so necessary.
There is certainly anintersection, but it is the
absolute, like we talked aboutearlier necessary building block
(22:07):
to be able to reach thosestudents with dyslexia.
And it doesn't mean more of thesame, because sometimes we'll
hear well, if students withdyslexia need explicit
instruction and science ofreading calls for explicit
instruction, then I'm doing whatI need to do for students with
dyslexia.
Well, no, that is what we needto do at minimum, and then we
(22:30):
build on that and we do aboveand beyond, deeper and wider,
for our students with dyslexiaand beyond, deeper and wider for
our students with dyslexiaDeeper and wider, but starting
off on that field where allteachers have that knowledge to
deliver those strategies.
Pam Austin (22:47):
That's connected to the 40 years of research, right
from the science of reading, andthat is just marvelous.
So, supporting all thesestudents so that we're able to
first, number one, identifythose kids I just love how you
laid that out so beautifully.
We need to know who they are sowe can give them the support.
Early is better, right, dj?
Absolutely the earlier thebetter.
(23:09):
Okay, and I like the idea ofthe more of instruction being
deeper to allow students thoseexposures.
Thank you so much for that.
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Pam Austin (23:46):
You know when we talk about what kids will need.
Can you give us some strategiesfor delivering this accessible
instruction?
What might that look like?
Or delivering this accessibleinstruction what might that look
like?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (24:04):
How can we break down those barriers for
students with these diverselearning needs?
Absolutely, there are manystrategies.
I'm sure we can write a book onthe number of strategies that
we can do for deliveringaccessible instruction.
And, you're right, it all leadsto breaking down those barriers
.
The first sort of no-brainer, Iwould say, strategy is that
(24:24):
explicit instruction.
It's so necessary for ourstudents with dyslexia.
Breaking those tasks right intomanageable steps, to model
steps, clearly identifying theexpectation and not just
assuming that a skill is alreadygained when moving on to
another skill, so really thatyou know guided practice and
(24:47):
immediate feedback through thatexplicit instruction is
necessary.
Assistive technology so here'san area that is necessary, but
really we have to look at theindividual student to see what
their specific needs are andlevel of AT is needed.
(25:07):
Tools like text-to-speech,speech-to-text audiobooks Look,
I am an audiobook fanatic and Idon't have dyslexia.
Can I get through a book in thesame manner you know as hard
copy that a camera audio book?
Probably not, but it's a thingthat we should certainly allow
for students to have in schools,and even screen readers to
(25:29):
support those students that arenecessary.
Incorporating apps and softwarefor students with learning
disabilities, like these are allthings that we continue to
combat in school systems ascrutches.
Right, we think about acalculator, and schools are
still believing in the theorythat if I give them this
(25:53):
calculator, I give them thistext speech, then they'll never
learn.
They'll never learn on theirown, it'd just be a crutch.
I think we just need todismantle that thought, that
mindset, to understand that thisis a necessary tool to use to
afford those students to accessthe information at the level of
their non-identified peers.
(26:14):
And so we just need to use ourdiscretion when applying AT,
because all students don't needthe same thing, and so we just
need to use our discretion whenapplying AT, because all
students don't need the samething, and we just don't want to
throw technology at studentswithout explicitly instructing
them on how to utilize that tooleither.
Another thing is scaffoldingtheir learning.
Obviously, this is somethingthat we are doing, likely in
(26:34):
whole group instruction anyway,but again, going deeper and
wider with our students withdyslexia, all of our instruction
, whether students with diverselearning needs or not, should be
culturally responsive in theirteaching practices.
So using those things thatallow those students to connect
their learning with their ownbackground, how are we
(26:57):
incorporating that and usingthose diverse texts and
materials to reflect this widerange of perspectives.
And then the other thing that Ithink is necessary again not an
exhaustive list, but the lastthing I'll say is not forgetting
our parents and caregivers andthe engagement that's necessary.
That should definitely beincorporated as a strategy for
(27:20):
instruction.
We think about it as twoseparate things, but if we
incorporate that into ouraccessible instruction, then
we've extended.
We know about extending thelearning.
We're extending that learninginto our parents and caregivers
and allowing them to be engaged,sharing strategies and tools
(27:40):
with families.
That supports the learning athome.
You don't have to be in thosehomes to teach, but allow
yourself to engage with familiesin a way that you're sharing
what's happening in theclassroom so that they continue
that learning at home and thencommunicate that regularly so
that students can progress andyou can collaborate on what
(28:02):
works best for them and thenwhat works best for you in the
classroom.
So, again, those are just a fewstrategies, but I will stand on
the heel and shout them fromthe rooftops that we just need
to lean into them and we willsee them work.
Pam Austin (28:19):
All of your strategies honestly, just stream
support for students, parents,teachers.
You know it all boils down toteachers keeping a pulse on the
finger of where students are andwhat their needs are.
When you think aboutdifferentiating instruction,
differentiate with that guidedpractice right Before moving
into independent, the assistivetechnology.
(28:40):
I love what you said about theidea of knowing exactly what
tool, what it's used for, andteaching the kids and not just
tossing it at them.
Yes, it's all aboutaccessibility, correct, right,
because that's what assistivetechnology is.
It is to assist in order tohelp get students to the
resources that they need inorder to dive into, maybe, as
(29:03):
you said, that grade level textthat they have difficulty with.
You know, when you talk aboutmaking things culturally
relevant, I love the idea wehear often a mirror in a window.
So kids having both makes ahuge impact on their learning.
I learned about other cultures,I learned about myself and I
see myself as well.
And you know what?
(29:23):
I love?
Your idea, dijanae, of havingour parents, the homeschool
connection, whether it's theparents or it might be a foster
parent, it might be an aunt, anuncle, a grandmother, someone
involved.
You know, there are always waysto help students shine and say,
hey, look what I did at schooland that connection is awesome.
(29:46):
Thank you so much for sharingthese tips and tools.
They are so relevant but alsoso easy to understand and
incorporate.
Now, we might not do them allat one time right, but bit by
bit we can make these thingshappen, one bite at a time.
Yep, yep, that's how we eat anelephant.
So, moving on, you know whatevidence-based strategies you
(30:08):
gave some specificrecommendation for instructions
to break down those barriers.
Making some connections, arethere any specific strategies
that you would suggest forengaging students and their
families?
You know I love the idea ofgetting those families involved.
Is there anything in particularthat you would recommend?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (30:26):
Yeah, well, those are all based on Dr
Karen Mapp's work of dualcapacity framework for family
engagement.
At the center we took thatmodel that's general and broad,
and we really apply it with amyriad of doors and windows that
(31:02):
will allow us to really buildcommunity and a community of
shared responsibility.
So when we do things like buildtrust, we link our family
engagement to learning, tolearning building capacity with
both the families and theeducators.
So sometimes we think that andwe have a misconception in
(31:26):
education that teachers shouldalready know how to engage
families.
They'll probably.
If anyone who's gone throughteacher prep program, you can
probably remember a half acourse maybe about how to engage
with families.
And even now that's evolved inhow we communicate, the avenues
of communication what'sappropriate and what's you know,
not what's culturally relevantand culturally appropriate and
(31:47):
what's not.
And so not assuming that theparents automatically know how
to support their kids Like it'syour kid, right, you should know
what to do with it.
Half of us don't, myselfincluded we don't know what
we're doing.
We need a village and so wecontinue to be the village for
one another and not assume thatit's you know, automatic.
(32:10):
This is where that explicitcommunication, explicit
instruction, even with ourfamilies, comes in into play,
and then we create thisenvironment where we are
co-creating.
It's not just here's this thingthat I'm handing to you to do,
it's let's figure out how we cancreate something together that
(32:31):
works for both, or create thething that works for you and I
can translate it in a way thatworks for me, and we have this
sort of open door, welcoming andrespectful practice that we've
created that honors you and yourbank of knowledge and
recognizes me and my bank ofknowledge, and we can sort of be
(32:53):
in this partnership that allowsus to align our engagement
efforts with our equity goals,like what is it?
What's the purpose?
Why do I wanna do this ongoingcollaboration?
And we can't just assume alsothat our families are readers.
We have a lot of adults.
(33:15):
If we look at our national data, we know that it's inevitable
that we have some families thatwill struggle with reading
themselves and that we have tolook at those families' possible
adverse and traumaticexperiences with schools in
their own journey and how thatshows up in their ability to
support their child, grandchild,family member.
(33:37):
And so when we take all thatinto consideration and we
humanize where we are, then wecan better, you know, break down
that barrier and come to thetable in an equitable, you know
way.
Pam Austin (33:52):
Yeah, so it's not a blanket outreach.
It's based on so many factorsto consider.
I love the idea of thecollaboration for that
engagement and it could bedifferent and we have to keep
these things open and alsosupporting teachers with this.
You're right, I don't remembertaking A course Season.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (34:10):
A, I keep saying I remember half a
course, but I also have toremember that I went through
counseling as one of my degreeprograms.
So I was like maybe it was incounseling that I took the hit.
Pam Austin (34:22):
Most likely so educators will appreciate
hearing that level of connectionand how hey, you know, it's
okay if I don't know, I canlearn.
We can learn together.
This can be a collaborativeeffort, absolutely.
I just love that idea.
What keeps you motivated inyour work and how do you stay
(34:43):
passionate about advancingliteracy?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (34:47):
Outcomes , outcomes, keeps me motivated
and I know that I don't know howthat comes across but to see
the fruits of your labor as awhole, as a community, as a
(35:08):
movement.
The fruits of your labor becomeripened and not rotten.
That is when it does your heartgood.
That is when you know you arecreating a lasting impact, a
legacy on those around you andbeyond you they're obviously
your immediate circle is whereyou get to see that the results
and listen, the results are notimmediate.
(35:29):
You have to have patience, youhave to have time.
We know that we are going tosee it if we believe in what it
is that we do.
And we've seen the success andwe've seen the outcomes and
(35:54):
we've seen the lives change andyou know the believers and the
non-believers.
You cannot come out of this notbelieving.
When you've seen it and you'veseen the light bulbs go off and
look, it's not a miracle, itdoesn't happen, like I said,
overnight.
But also it's not always prettyLike, it's not always magical.
(36:17):
When you see the things come tofruition, it's the continued
application of this learning andwhen it's applied to the
children and adults, those whoare fortunate enough to work
with adults, to see it work.
That is motivation enough.
That has been, for me, the fuelfor my passion.
(36:40):
Another thing that has had mepassionate through my journey is
the lack of knowledge of others, and so when I see that there's
a gap in knowledge or a gap inunderstanding, that just makes
me want to continue, just keepgoing.
There's more work to be doneand I want to ensure that you
(37:04):
know each one, reach one, sothat we can continue to spread
this farther and wider.
Pam Austin (37:10):
Oh, thank you for bringing back that word.
Magical and how, when you havethat success and it breeds the
success and that is magical.
But then you attach the factthat it can be messy.
You know that magic that'shappening behind the scenes.
It looks like it's easy when weget that success, but there's a
lot of work that goes into that?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (37:31):
Oh, the road is often bumpy and you're
walking barefoot.
Pam Austin (37:39):
I absolutely love it .
What trends do you foresee inthe field of literacy?
We talked a lot about wherekids are with dyslexia.
We talked about the needs ofour educators.
We talked about the needs ofthe community the parents, the
students, all of it.
But what do you foresee in thenear future in regards to the
(38:00):
field of literacy itself?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (38:03):
I foresee dyslexia education being
elevated.
I think that is our next wave.
When I think of the science ofreading movement that just took
place in the last five to sevenyears, I think about the
question of what's next?
Right, we've, we are buildingthis house, we've laid this
(38:27):
foundation.
What's next?
And so I think there's so manythat will benefit from this
foundation and that we've laidin the early grades.
We are going to crank out thesmartest kindergartners that
there ever was in the next 10years, and I think that is just
(38:48):
the lift that we need to bettersupport students with learning
and attention issues, and notonly in the K-12 setting, but I
truly believe this will trickleinto higher ed and workforce
development.
Wonderful, I truly see thisbeing again an issue that we all
(39:11):
are faced with, and justbecause a student graduates, it
doesn't miraculously absolvethem from all the challenges
that they've had through thisK-12 journey.
And we are creating, hopefully,citizens of the world that will
be able to apply what they'velearned.
They will be meaningfulparticipants in society, but
(39:35):
society has to be welcoming ofthem, just like we expect the
K-12 system to adjust and adapt.
And so I really believe thatthis is only in the beginning.
We are going to do great thingsfrom here and I'm excited to
see it, to envision it.
If I could paint, I can draw itout, but I am excited to be a
(39:57):
part of what is to come next.
Pam Austin (40:00):
You're taking it to the next level.
Well, I want to ask you thisbecause I know we've got all
sorts of educators who arelistening for our listening
audience.
I want to focus onadministrators in particular and
teachers who are striving toimprove literacy and make a
difference in their schools.
What advice would you give them?
How do we take that first step?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (40:21):
We talked about a lot we did.
It's so complex, right, Justlike learning is complex.
Make a difference is to bepersistent and to find strength
in numbers but be okay to standalone.
(40:43):
And this is part of thatmessiness right of the journey.
I mentioned earlier that I setout to sort of unpack and
dismantle a system that wasn'tworking.
Sometimes that is an absolutenecessary.
We've got to tear down andbuild up.
That does not mean that allsystems are broken.
(41:05):
We have to find the systemsthat work and we have to work
together to work within thosesystems that work.
And administrators are thefront lines of that change.
And so we struggle when we havean expectation of our classroom
(41:25):
teachers, but the knowledge ofthe administrators isn't there
to really support those teachersin the way they need to be
supported.
So if teachers feel like theyneed more education, more
knowledge building, then bepersistent in pursuing that.
If administrators feel likethey need to know more in order
(41:46):
to support their teachers, bepersistent.
Just aren't getting it, inspite of applying all the things
that we've learned.
That's the asterisk there isthat we apply things that we
know that work.
Then be persistent, becausewe're probably on the cusp of
that student's light bulb moment, and so that's so important and
(42:11):
it is a challenge every day andschools, school systems, school
communities just really have towork together through their
persistence.
Pam Austin (42:19):
Yes, I love that word persistence Seeking.
You will find, and there's somuch out there as support for
both administrators and teachers.
I love, I love getting thatinformation for that light bulb
moment for students.
And that can be differentdepending on the student and
what those needs are, and thatcan be different depending on
the student and what those needsare.
(42:40):
Is there anything?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (42:45):
else that you'd like to share with
our listeners about theimportance of literacy and
equitable education.
I would like to share this onethought that I think often goes
unsaid, but maybe thought of.
But often unsaid is thank you.
Thank you to those teachers,administrators, school
communities, families for theknowledge that you're gaining,
(43:06):
for the work that you're doing,for the lives that you're
elevating.
Thank you.
It is not for the faint ofheart.
We are in this journey becausewe know the outcomes that we are
destined to see and we want toshape lives of those around us,
and so I think it's importantfor us to lead with open hearts,
(43:31):
open minds, and that's how weget to equity, and that we
conclude with gratefulness, andso we are grateful for those who
are doing the work.
Pam Austin (43:41):
We have to have that gratitude for all of those out
there working hard with ourstudents.
Thanks for joining us, Dijanae,and sharing your unique
expertise with our audience.
It has been a pleasure to speakwith you.
Where can our audience learnmore about your work in the
Center for Literacy and Learning?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (43:58):
Thank you for having me today, Pam.
It was an amazing chat.
I didn't get on too much of asoapbox, thank goodness.
But you and anyone can findmore about our work at the
Center for Literacy and Learningon our website at mycllorg and
certainly visit us during ourPlain Talk about Literacy and
(44:20):
Learning Institute or our PlainTalk about Dyslexia Summit.
We are always welcome towelcome folks to Louisiana.
We eat really well here, socome on down.
Pam Austin (44:30):
Yes, we do.
This is Pam Austin, bringingthe best thought leaders in
education directly to you.
Please join us next month foranother great EdVue 360 podcast.
Our podcast guests for Marchare Dr Louisa Motz and Dr Reed
Lyon.
You won't want to miss it.
Narrator (44:51):
This has been an EdVue 360 podcast.
For additionalthought-provoking discussions,
sign up for our blog, webinarand podcast series at
voyagersopriscom.
Slash edview360.
If you enjoyed the show, we'dlove a five-star review wherever
you listen to podcasts and tohelp other people like you find
(45:13):
our show.
Thank you.
Welcome to EdView 360.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (00:05):
We are creating, hopefully, citizens of
the world that will be able toapply what they've learned.
They will be meaningfulparticipants in society, but
society has to be welcoming ofthem, just like we expect the
K-12 system to adjust and adapt.
And so I really believe thatthis is only the beginning.
(00:26):
We are going to do great thingsfrom here, and I'm excited to
see it.
To envision it, I can.
If I could paint, I could, Ican draw it out, but I am
excited to be a part of what isto come next.
Narrator (00:43):
You just heard from literacy expert and advocate
DeJunne' Clark Jackson,president of the Center for
Literacy and Learning.
Ms Jackson is our guest todayon EdView 360.
Pam Austin (00:59):
Hello, this is Pam Austin.
Welcome back to the EdView 360podcast series.
We are so excited to have youwith us today for our February
Literacy Conversation.
I'm conducting today's podcastfrom my native New Orleans,
louisiana.
Today we are excited to welcomea respected literacy expert and
science of reading advocate,dijanae Clark-Jackson.
(01:20):
I'm thrilled to know and workwith Dijanae, another native
Louisianian.
Dijanae is the president of theCenter for Literacy and Learning
and she is a certified academiclanguage therapist and
nationally credentialed AETeducational therapist.
She is a dedicated, respectedleader with more than a decade
(01:41):
of experience supportingchildren and adolescents across
various stages of their academicjourneys, from early childhood
development to college readiness.
Clark Jackson has workedtirelessly to help students
achieve success in theireducational pursuits.
Dijoné is the founder ofLearning Fundamentals,
educational Therapy andConsulting, serves as president
(02:04):
of the Reading League Louisianaand is state leader of Decoding
Dyslexia Louisiana.
She actively contributes tostate-level initiatives such as
the Louisiana Department ofEducation's Dyslexia Bulletin
Workgroup, louisiana LiteracyAdvisory Commission and Special
Education Advisory Panel.
(02:24):
She is also the co-author ofthe Speech-Language
Pathologist's Guide to Dyslexia.
Welcome, dijanae.
Let's talk about breakingbarriers and advancing literacy
through equity in action.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (02:38):
Thanks for having me, Pam.
I appreciate this conversation.
Pam Austin (02:41):
It is going to be marvelous having this
conversation with you.
I'm sure our listeners want topick your brain and just learn
so much from your experiences.
You know, let's start off byhaving you share just a bit
about your journey and what ledyou to become a literacy
advocate and leader at theCenter for Literacy and Learning
(03:01):
.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (03:02):
Well, I don't know where to start with
answering this Gosh.
I often describe it like a catwith nine lives.
I've worn so many hats over theyears and lived so many
professional lives that reallyhave just prepared me for this
moment where I am right now.
I began, actually began my workin higher education first, so I
(03:26):
was the disability coordinatorand facilitator for students who
were incoming freshmen to helpwith their disability transition
into college, and that was sucha rewarding and, as you can
imagine, frustrating process.
But I left higher ed to run achild advocacy center where I
was working with our localdistrict attorney's office and
(03:48):
police departments to supportchildren of abuse and their
families, and so that was a lifethat was completely different
from the one that I'd left.
And from there, though, I jumpedheadfirst into K-12 education,
teaching pre-K through thirdgrade students, like getting
with those littles.
I was a school counselor, astudent service coordinator,
(04:11):
literacy interventionist, andthat's when I pursued my
certification in dyslexia.
But what I can say is that myjourney wasn't just my journey
alone.
It was actually my child'sjourney, and through his
education it's really.
That was the catalyst to whereI am today Just a staunch
(04:32):
advocate and believer in likethe perceived impossible, and so
I'm very grateful for thisjourney and all of those hats
that I've worn, all those livesthat I've led, that's led me to
lead the center as the presidentand with an amazing team of
other passionate educators andall other adjacent opportunities
(04:56):
that it's afforded me, and sothis is an amazing community to
be a part of.
Pam Austin (05:01):
Wow, it has been a journey.
Just listening to you speakabout the myriad of roles and
experiences that you've had, Isay that definitely gives you an
understanding of the vast waysthat we can support, not only in
that K-12 environment where youare, but across the board.
What does the center focus onas its goals?
(05:25):
Give us a brief overview ofyour purpose at the center.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (05:28):
Yeah.
So our purpose at the center isto create lifelong learners and
to have our educators make ahuge impact.
So the center was founded in1992.
So we just celebrated 32 years.
And we are an educationnonprofit whose mission is to
(05:50):
advance literacy and learningthrough evidence-based practices
in the classroom, home andcommunity.
And those three buckets are soimportant for us because not one
silo can do this alone.
And we often say it's not justthe responsibility of the
teachers, it's not just theresponsibility of families, it's
(06:11):
not just right, it takes thisvillage, it's this village
mindset.
And so the center helps to worktoward closing this achievement
gap by providing educators withprofessional learning that is
specifically designed to empowerthem to recognize, to assess,
to respond to the multiple needsof all of our learners, to
(06:48):
build on the science of reading.
That has resulted in positiveforward movement change for
schools and communities.
It's not just about the impactin that school building on that
student, on that family, butwhat does that mean for the
community at large?
And so obviously our pride andjoy, the apple of our eye, is
our Plain Talk about Literacyand Learning Institute that we
host annually in New Orleans,and for us and many people who
(07:12):
attend.
It is the nation's premierliteracy conference and it
brings together literacy andlearning experts and attracting
education industry professionalslike you, pam, into that space.
And it really is and when Icame on to the center I kept
using this term magical, like itreally is, this magical
(07:33):
experience like none other thatbrings folks together.
And so since then we've justfinished our inaugural Plane
Talk about Dyslexia Summit andso just wanting to bring that
additional awareness and magicto what we call our baby plane
talk, and so it's been quite apassion project since the moment
(07:55):
that I stepped foot into thisorganization, and we are just
really excited and really justproud to be just one part of
everyone's journey through thescience of reading and teaching
reading.
Pam Austin (08:08):
Yes, you know why this experience is magical.
There's a lot of work that goesbehind the magic and I know
that you are working behind thescenes, along with your staff,
to make it happen.
When we think about those threeaspects, I love it.
The classroom is where wenormally focus right what is the
teacher doing?
(08:29):
And the idea of empoweringthose teachers, because once
they know and understand andlearn, they will extend.
And then that home in thecommunity.
It all is so important and Ilove the way you speak to the
three being that experiencethat's going to make a
difference.
You know what I want to ask you.
You gave us a lot ofinformation about the myriad of
(08:51):
experiences that you've had.
What experiences have mostinfluenced your approach to
education and literacy?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (08:59):
You know all of my experiences.
I look at them as buildingblocks, right, all the things
that have sort of been stackedon top of the other to curate
and to create what you know,what we have today.
But as I look back, I think asa teacher of littles as I
mentioned pre-K-3, the babiesare my heart.
(09:21):
I don't know how those folksdoing with those middle
schoolers, but I will stay in mylane.
But as a teacher of littles, Ithought like many and my story
is not unique I thought that Iwas prepared to support my own
little in his journey.
But he struggled through schooland I didn't identify and I
(09:43):
wasn't aware of the depth ofknowledge that I needed to
support him.
And that as an educator, as aparent educator, it was
frustrating, it was sad.
I always say that in educationwe're, and as teachers we're
expected to show up for ourstudents that are before us.
(10:06):
But oftentimes, not oftentimes.
Sometimes some of us havebetter discipline than others.
Sometimes that's at thesacrifice of those red flags
that appear in your own child,right, and so there's some
underlying guilt to that.
And so I was just on thisjourney to find my why of
(10:26):
helping him to work through that, and so I was fortunate enough
to dive into those things that Ididn't know and to learn all
that I could learn, bothformally and informally, and
this led me to become this, youknow, and this led me to become
(10:49):
this, you know, connoisseur ofall information related to
dyslexia, ADHD and the like.
I really dove in to figure outone how to help my kid but also
it served a dual purpose,because I was still in education
.
I was still in the classroom,rather, education.
I was still in the classroom,rather and so I needed to help
the kids that were in front ofme, who I knew that the
(11:10):
information that I was learningwould impact them as well, and
so I was determined to not onlysupport, like I said, my child,
the children that were in frontof me, but to support teachers,
administrators, families like,and to really educate them in a
way that would have directpositive impact on students,
(11:31):
because it was a systemic issueis what I learned, and so I was
really determined to sort ofunpack and dismantle the system
that I found to not be reallysupportive, in a way that it was
transparent and available forus to help all kids.
Pam Austin (11:54):
Oh, that is definitely a major influence
there.
Just thinking about yourpersonal need to support your
child led you to expand yourknowledge, your growth, your
professional learning and we allcan learn more right, just
having that opportunity to gainthose experiences.
It's definitely had made animpact on the community itself
(12:15):
as a whole.
Thank you so much for all thatyou've done.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (12:18):
It's interesting how that journey you
just repeated that journeythere, dijoné Thank you so much
for sharing repeat of thatjourney there, dijanae, thank
you so much for sharing, if Ican really stress because again
I want to push the fact that mystory is not unique in how we
sort of stumble upon this.
I always say in the dyslexiawork that dyslexia is personal.
(12:39):
If you speak to many parents,many educators who are parents,
they came about this journey.
They didn't most didn't set outto even as educators didn't set
out to say I want to learnabout dyslexia.
It is something that impactedthem personally and that was
their catalyst to learn more.
(13:01):
And so when we know more, we domore, when we know better, we do
more.
When we know better, we dobetter.
And I think that everyone hasbenefited from our personal
struggle and that we canessentially pay it forward to
ensure that the next student,the next family, the next mom,
dad won't experience the initialhardships perhaps that we sort
(13:24):
of stumbled through.
And so I discovered this to betrue by listening to the stories
of those who were in my cohortof dyslexia therapist training
in my master's degree programand just to hear how everyone
sort of ended up in that firstday of class, whether they were
(13:47):
a speech therapist who decidedto expand their knowledge, many
were parents, many wereeducators and many were there
because it was this desire, thisinnate instinct to do and know
more, so that they could applyit to their immediate circle and
then sort of ripple effect thatto everyone else around them.
Pam Austin (14:11):
Definitely giving back to the community with the
support that they have learned.
Absolutely Excellent that painat forward.
You know those stumbling blocksbecome building blocks.
Yes, it's amazing.
So you describe challengesfaced by students with dyslexia.
What are some commonmisconceptions that are out
(14:32):
there?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (14:33):
Well, even in this year, there are
still so many commonmisconceptions.
Well, there are many challengesalso, but I find that just when
we feel like we've addressedthem all and surely we, you know
, we can get past those, youknow sort of 101 style
(14:55):
misconceptions or challengesthere's always someone who say
well, I always thought that Iwas told that or it was passed
down to me.
And so I think the biggestcommon misconception is that
dyslexia looks the same ineveryone and only affects
someone's ability to read.
And that was the biggestrevelation, not only in my own
(15:17):
life but in the lives of thestudents that I had before me,
was that this array and range ofhow the students with dyslexia,
either diagnosed or undiagnosed, were presented with, and so
those challenges varied fromperson to person with, and so
(15:38):
those challenges varied fromperson to person.
Dyslexia happens on a spectrumand we know that it can be mild
to severe.
And these common red flags, oryellow warning flags, if you
will, there are these earlyindicators that we can look to
to say, okay, let's look alittle deeper.
I think about the early years,things about like rhyming or
(16:00):
mispronouncing words.
So my favorite word formispronunciation is spaghetti,
when those babies say paschetti,and it's just so cute, and then
at some point it's not so cuteanymore and then we have to go
let's look into this.
But also understanding that itaffects spelling and speaking
and expressing ideas, and notjust reading, but the depth of
(16:25):
reading, which is decoding thewords at the root level,
substituting words when reading.
Oh, my goodness, those of uswho work with students who see
those habits that they've formedto just sort of get over it and
get through it.
And obviously writing isanother one that affects.
But dyslexia has alsonon-academic challenges and
(16:50):
those are the places that wefind ourselves sort of in some
sticky situations, what I liketo call it, those non-academic
challenges that we look at assecondary consequences.
That affects a person's social,emotional and behavioral
functioning.
That's things like anxiety andstress, avoidance or isolation.
(17:15):
You think about the child whosays my stomach hurts, I don't
want to go to school, or whoacts out every day at the same
time in Ms So-and-so's class,you know, misbehaving.
Well, they're avoiding, right,and so remembering things that
if we look back at patterns ofbehavior, that could really get
us to the point where we canfigure out that there's
(17:37):
something happening, even when Ithink about older kids.
So, as my kid, from the time hewas diagnosed in third grade to
the time that he's now a juniorin high school like I can't even
say that without getting a lumpin my throat there's this
evolution of how it affected himsocially.
So looking at things like inconversation, saying the wrong
(18:01):
words in his relationships withfriends, maybe remembering
things wrong.
So those are some things thatwe know, that there's again this
spectrum of challenges andthings that we need to look for
those indicators, whether earlyor evolving, but that we just
keep look for those indicators,whether early or evolving, but
that we just keep in mind thatdyslexia is not cut equally and
(18:23):
so we need to see and giveleverage to those who it
displays differently with.
Pam Austin (18:29):
Right, and I'm sure our listeners appreciate that
aspect, because we do hear aboutthe literacy and even the
communication.
But the idea of dyslexia beingon a spectrum different for all
students and actually thenon-academic areas, we know that
they exist but we normallydon't attend to those patterns
of behavior and across thetimeline of a student, as they
(18:53):
grow from year to year to year,that makes a difference.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
You know we talk aboutempowering male teachers, giving
them the information that theyneed to know, and we know that
there's definitely a connectionbetween the science of reading
and effective dyslexia support.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
DeJunne’ Clark Jacks (19:12):
Absolutely so.
The science of reading, as wedefine it with the Reading
League, is a body of research.
We're talking about how thisresearch is over 40 plus years,
and it helps to teach us how thebrain learns to read and write
and then why some students areexperiencing difficulty.
So they provide us withguidance on how to teach reading
(19:34):
so that more students can learnto read proficiently.
How to teach reading so thatmore students can learn to read
proficiently right, but this isreally critical for the
foundation of instruction forall students, let alone students
with dyslexia.
But I always say that dyslexiaresearch dates back centuries,
(19:56):
even from where it evolved, fromword blindness, in terms of
what it was perceived to be, andhow it's evolved to what we
know to be today as dyslexia.
So that science of reading isthe foundation that we need to
apply to students with dyslexia.
Without it, it is going to bedifficult to identify students
(20:18):
who struggle with dyslexiaversus those who struggle just
due to lack of appropriateinstruction.
Now, pam, as you might be aware,louisiana has made amazing
strides in the last four yearstoward remedying our reading
shortfalls.
Right At the onset, though, ofthis movement here in our state,
(20:40):
when funding was abundant, Iwrote a white paper explaining
the need to pour into our Tier 1instruction plan as a necessary
first step to our readingrevival.
It was appropriately titledFalling Through the Cracks is
(21:01):
Harder on a Solid Foundation andit spoke to the intersection of
the science of reading,research and practice and
dyslexia identification andintervention.
Because if we don't haveappropriate science of
reading-based research andpractice in our instruction for
(21:24):
all, then those students withdyslexia will continue to be
under-identified andmis-identified.
We have to.
Once we shore up that foundation, then those students who are
truly struggling with dyslexia,on whatever part of the spectrum
(21:45):
, we are then going to be betterequipped and better
knowledgeable to be able tosupport those students using
interventions that are beyondwhat we are doing for our
foundational reading instruction, and so that is so necessary.
There is certainly anintersection, but it is the
absolute, like we talked aboutearlier necessary building block
(22:07):
to be able to reach thosestudents with dyslexia.
And it doesn't mean more of thesame, because sometimes we'll
hear well, if students withdyslexia need explicit
instruction and science ofreading calls for explicit
instruction, then I'm doing whatI need to do for students with
dyslexia.
Well, no, that is what we needto do at minimum, and then we
(22:30):
build on that and we do aboveand beyond, deeper and wider,
for our students with dyslexiaand beyond, deeper and wider for
our students with dyslexiaDeeper and wider, but starting
off on that field where allteachers have that knowledge to
deliver those strategies.
Pam Austin (22:47):
That's connected to the 40 years of research, right
from the science of reading, andthat is just marvelous.
So, supporting all thesestudents so that we're able to
first, number one, identifythose kids I just love how you
laid that out so beautifully.
We need to know who they are sowe can give them the support.
Early is better, right, dj?
Absolutely the earlier thebetter.
(23:09):
Okay, and I like the idea ofthe more of instruction being
deeper to allow students thoseexposures.
Thank you so much for that.
Voyager Sopris Learning (23:22):
Voyager Sopris Learning is the reading,
writing and math interventionspecialist With four decades of
results.
We provide evidence-basedinterventions and assessments
that help educators ensureacademic success for all
students.
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Pam Austin (23:46):
You know when we talk about what kids will need.
Can you give us some strategiesfor delivering this accessible
instruction?
What might that look like?
Or delivering this accessibleinstruction what might that look
like?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (24:04):
How can we break down those barriers for
students with these diverselearning needs?
Absolutely, there are manystrategies.
I'm sure we can write a book onthe number of strategies that
we can do for deliveringaccessible instruction.
And, you're right, it all leadsto breaking down those barriers
.
The first sort of no-brainer, Iwould say, strategy is that
(24:24):
explicit instruction.
It's so necessary for ourstudents with dyslexia.
Breaking those tasks right intomanageable steps, to model
steps, clearly identifying theexpectation and not just
assuming that a skill is alreadygained when moving on to
another skill, so really thatyou know guided practice and
(24:47):
immediate feedback through thatexplicit instruction is
necessary.
Assistive technology so here'san area that is necessary, but
really we have to look at theindividual student to see what
their specific needs are andlevel of AT is needed.
(25:07):
Tools like text-to-speech,speech-to-text audiobooks Look,
I am an audiobook fanatic and Idon't have dyslexia.
Can I get through a book in thesame manner you know as hard
copy that a camera audio book?
Probably not, but it's a thingthat we should certainly allow
for students to have in schools,and even screen readers to
(25:29):
support those students that arenecessary.
Incorporating apps and softwarefor students with learning
disabilities, like these are allthings that we continue to
combat in school systems ascrutches.
Right, we think about acalculator, and schools are
still believing in the theorythat if I give them this
(25:53):
calculator, I give them thistext speech, then they'll never
learn.
They'll never learn on theirown, it'd just be a crutch.
I think we just need todismantle that thought, that
mindset, to understand that thisis a necessary tool to use to
afford those students to accessthe information at the level of
their non-identified peers.
(26:14):
And so we just need to use ourdiscretion when applying AT,
because all students don't needthe same thing, and so we just
need to use our discretion whenapplying AT, because all
students don't need the samething, and we just don't want to
throw technology at studentswithout explicitly instructing
them on how to utilize that tooleither.
Another thing is scaffoldingtheir learning.
Obviously, this is somethingthat we are doing, likely in
(26:34):
whole group instruction anyway,but again, going deeper and
wider with our students withdyslexia, all of our instruction
, whether students with diverselearning needs or not, should be
culturally responsive in theirteaching practices.
So using those things thatallow those students to connect
their learning with their ownbackground, how are we
(26:57):
incorporating that and usingthose diverse texts and
materials to reflect this widerange of perspectives.
And then the other thing that Ithink is necessary again not an
exhaustive list, but the lastthing I'll say is not forgetting
our parents and caregivers andthe engagement that's necessary.
That should definitely beincorporated as a strategy for
(27:20):
instruction.
We think about it as twoseparate things, but if we
incorporate that into ouraccessible instruction, then
we've extended.
We know about extending thelearning.
We're extending that learninginto our parents and caregivers
and allowing them to be engaged,sharing strategies and tools
(27:40):
with families.
That supports the learning athome.
You don't have to be in thosehomes to teach, but allow
yourself to engage with familiesin a way that you're sharing
what's happening in theclassroom so that they continue
that learning at home and thencommunicate that regularly so
that students can progress andyou can collaborate on what
(28:02):
works best for them and thenwhat works best for you in the
classroom.
So, again, those are just a fewstrategies, but I will stand on
the heel and shout them fromthe rooftops that we just need
to lean into them and we willsee them work.
Pam Austin (28:19):
All of your strategies honestly, just stream
support for students, parents,teachers.
You know it all boils down toteachers keeping a pulse on the
finger of where students are andwhat their needs are.
When you think aboutdifferentiating instruction,
differentiate with that guidedpractice right Before moving
into independent, the assistivetechnology.
(28:40):
I love what you said about theidea of knowing exactly what
tool, what it's used for, andteaching the kids and not just
tossing it at them.
Yes, it's all aboutaccessibility, correct, right,
because that's what assistivetechnology is.
It is to assist in order tohelp get students to the
resources that they need inorder to dive into, maybe, as
(29:03):
you said, that grade level textthat they have difficulty with.
You know, when you talk aboutmaking things culturally
relevant, I love the idea wehear often a mirror in a window.
So kids having both makes ahuge impact on their learning.
I learned about other cultures,I learned about myself and I
see myself as well.
And you know what?
(29:23):
I love?
Your idea, dijanae, of havingour parents, the homeschool
connection, whether it's theparents or it might be a foster
parent, it might be an aunt, anuncle, a grandmother, someone
involved.
You know, there are always waysto help students shine and say,
hey, look what I did at schooland that connection is awesome.
(29:46):
Thank you so much for sharingthese tips and tools.
They are so relevant but alsoso easy to understand and
incorporate.
Now, we might not do them allat one time right, but bit by
bit we can make these thingshappen, one bite at a time.
Yep, yep, that's how we eat anelephant.
So, moving on, you know whatevidence-based strategies you
(30:08):
gave some specificrecommendation for instructions
to break down those barriers.
Making some connections, arethere any specific strategies
that you would suggest forengaging students and their
families?
You know I love the idea ofgetting those families involved.
Is there anything in particularthat you would recommend?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (30:26):
Yeah, well, those are all based on Dr
Karen Mapp's work of dualcapacity framework for family
engagement.
At the center we took thatmodel that's general and broad,
and we really apply it with amyriad of doors and windows that
(31:02):
will allow us to really buildcommunity and a community of
shared responsibility.
So when we do things like buildtrust, we link our family
engagement to learning, tolearning building capacity with
both the families and theeducators.
So sometimes we think that andwe have a misconception in
(31:26):
education that teachers shouldalready know how to engage
families.
They'll probably.
If anyone who's gone throughteacher prep program, you can
probably remember a half acourse maybe about how to engage
with families.
And even now that's evolved inhow we communicate, the avenues
of communication what'sappropriate and what's you know,
not what's culturally relevantand culturally appropriate and
(31:47):
what's not.
And so not assuming that theparents automatically know how
to support their kids Like it'syour kid, right, you should know
what to do with it.
Half of us don't, myselfincluded we don't know what
we're doing.
We need a village and so wecontinue to be the village for
one another and not assume thatit's you know, automatic.
(32:10):
This is where that explicitcommunication, explicit
instruction, even with ourfamilies, comes in into play,
and then we create thisenvironment where we are
co-creating.
It's not just here's this thingthat I'm handing to you to do,
it's let's figure out how we cancreate something together that
(32:31):
works for both, or create thething that works for you and I
can translate it in a way thatworks for me, and we have this
sort of open door, welcoming andrespectful practice that we've
created that honors you and yourbank of knowledge and
recognizes me and my bank ofknowledge, and we can sort of be
(32:53):
in this partnership that allowsus to align our engagement
efforts with our equity goals,like what is it?
What's the purpose?
Why do I wanna do this ongoingcollaboration?
And we can't just assume alsothat our families are readers.
We have a lot of adults.
(33:15):
If we look at our national data, we know that it's inevitable
that we have some families thatwill struggle with reading
themselves and that we have tolook at those families' possible
adverse and traumaticexperiences with schools in
their own journey and how thatshows up in their ability to
support their child, grandchild,family member.
(33:37):
And so when we take all thatinto consideration and we
humanize where we are, then wecan better, you know, break down
that barrier and come to thetable in an equitable, you know
way.
Pam Austin (33:52):
Yeah, so it's not a blanket outreach.
It's based on so many factorsto consider.
I love the idea of thecollaboration for that
engagement and it could bedifferent and we have to keep
these things open and alsosupporting teachers with this.
You're right, I don't remembertaking A course Season.
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (34:10):
A, I keep saying I remember half a
course, but I also have toremember that I went through
counseling as one of my degreeprograms.
So I was like maybe it was incounseling that I took the hit.
Pam Austin (34:22):
Most likely so educators will appreciate
hearing that level of connectionand how hey, you know, it's
okay if I don't know, I canlearn.
We can learn together.
This can be a collaborativeeffort, absolutely.
I just love that idea.
What keeps you motivated inyour work and how do you stay
(34:43):
passionate about advancingliteracy?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (34:47):
Outcomes , outcomes, keeps me motivated
and I know that I don't know howthat comes across but to see
the fruits of your labor as awhole, as a community, as a
(35:08):
movement.
The fruits of your labor becomeripened and not rotten.
That is when it does your heartgood.
That is when you know you arecreating a lasting impact, a
legacy on those around you andbeyond you they're obviously
your immediate circle is whereyou get to see that the results
and listen, the results are notimmediate.
(35:29):
You have to have patience, youhave to have time.
We know that we are going tosee it if we believe in what it
is that we do.
And we've seen the success andwe've seen the outcomes and
(35:54):
we've seen the lives change andyou know the believers and the
non-believers.
You cannot come out of this notbelieving.
When you've seen it and you'veseen the light bulbs go off and
look, it's not a miracle, itdoesn't happen, like I said,
overnight.
But also it's not always prettyLike, it's not always magical.
(36:17):
When you see the things come tofruition, it's the continued
application of this learning andwhen it's applied to the
children and adults, those whoare fortunate enough to work
with adults, to see it work.
That is motivation enough.
That has been, for me, the fuelfor my passion.
(36:40):
Another thing that has had mepassionate through my journey is
the lack of knowledge of others, and so when I see that there's
a gap in knowledge or a gap inunderstanding, that just makes
me want to continue, just keepgoing.
There's more work to be doneand I want to ensure that you
(37:04):
know each one, reach one, sothat we can continue to spread
this farther and wider.
Pam Austin (37:10):
Oh, thank you for bringing back that word.
Magical and how, when you havethat success and it breeds the
success and that is magical.
But then you attach the factthat it can be messy.
You know that magic that'shappening behind the scenes.
It looks like it's easy when weget that success, but there's a
lot of work that goes into that?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (37:31):
Oh, the road is often bumpy and you're
walking barefoot.
Pam Austin (37:39):
I absolutely love it .
What trends do you foresee inthe field of literacy?
We talked a lot about wherekids are with dyslexia.
We talked about the needs ofour educators.
We talked about the needs ofthe community the parents, the
students, all of it.
But what do you foresee in thenear future in regards to the
(38:00):
field of literacy itself?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (38:03):
I foresee dyslexia education being
elevated.
I think that is our next wave.
When I think of the science ofreading movement that just took
place in the last five to sevenyears, I think about the
question of what's next?
Right, we've, we are buildingthis house, we've laid this
(38:27):
foundation.
What's next?
And so I think there's so manythat will benefit from this
foundation and that we've laidin the early grades.
We are going to crank out thesmartest kindergartners that
there ever was in the next 10years, and I think that is just
(38:48):
the lift that we need to bettersupport students with learning
and attention issues, and notonly in the K-12 setting, but I
truly believe this will trickleinto higher ed and workforce
development.
Wonderful, I truly see thisbeing again an issue that we all
(39:11):
are faced with, and justbecause a student graduates, it
doesn't miraculously absolvethem from all the challenges
that they've had through thisK-12 journey.
And we are creating, hopefully,citizens of the world that will
be able to apply what they'velearned.
They will be meaningfulparticipants in society, but
(39:35):
society has to be welcoming ofthem, just like we expect the
K-12 system to adjust and adapt.
And so I really believe thatthis is only in the beginning.
We are going to do great thingsfrom here and I'm excited to
see it, to envision it.
If I could paint, I can draw itout, but I am excited to be a
(39:57):
part of what is to come next.
Pam Austin (40:00):
You're taking it to the next level.
Well, I want to ask you thisbecause I know we've got all
sorts of educators who arelistening for our listening
audience.
I want to focus onadministrators in particular and
teachers who are striving toimprove literacy and make a
difference in their schools.
What advice would you give them?
How do we take that first step?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (40:21):
We talked about a lot we did.
It's so complex, right, Justlike learning is complex.
Make a difference is to bepersistent and to find strength
in numbers but be okay to standalone.
(40:43):
And this is part of thatmessiness right of the journey.
I mentioned earlier that I setout to sort of unpack and
dismantle a system that wasn'tworking.
Sometimes that is an absolutenecessary.
We've got to tear down andbuild up.
That does not mean that allsystems are broken.
(41:05):
We have to find the systemsthat work and we have to work
together to work within thosesystems that work.
And administrators are thefront lines of that change.
And so we struggle when we havean expectation of our classroom
(41:25):
teachers, but the knowledge ofthe administrators isn't there
to really support those teachersin the way they need to be
supported.
So if teachers feel like theyneed more education, more
knowledge building, then bepersistent in pursuing that.
If administrators feel likethey need to know more in order
(41:46):
to support their teachers, bepersistent.
Just aren't getting it, inspite of applying all the things
that we've learned.
That's the asterisk there isthat we apply things that we
know that work.
Then be persistent, becausewe're probably on the cusp of
that student's light bulb moment, and so that's so important and
(42:11):
it is a challenge every day andschools, school systems, school
communities just really have towork together through their
persistence.
Pam Austin (42:19):
Yes, I love that word persistence Seeking.
You will find, and there's somuch out there as support for
both administrators and teachers.
I love, I love getting thatinformation for that light bulb
moment for students.
And that can be differentdepending on the student and
what those needs are, and thatcan be different depending on
the student and what those needsare.
(42:40):
Is there anything?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (42:45):
else that you'd like to share with
our listeners about theimportance of literacy and
equitable education.
I would like to share this onethought that I think often goes
unsaid, but maybe thought of.
But often unsaid is thank you.
Thank you to those teachers,administrators, school
communities, families for theknowledge that you're gaining,
(43:06):
for the work that you're doing,for the lives that you're
elevating.
Thank you.
It is not for the faint ofheart.
We are in this journey becausewe know the outcomes that we are
destined to see and we want toshape lives of those around us,
and so I think it's importantfor us to lead with open hearts,
(43:31):
open minds, and that's how weget to equity, and that we
conclude with gratefulness, andso we are grateful for those who
are doing the work.
Pam Austin (43:41):
We have to have that gratitude for all of those out
there working hard with ourstudents.
Thanks for joining us, Dijanae,and sharing your unique
expertise with our audience.
It has been a pleasure to speakwith you.
Where can our audience learnmore about your work in the
Center for Literacy and Learning?
DeJunne’ Clark Jackson (43:58):
Thank you for having me today, Pam.
It was an amazing chat.
I didn't get on too much of asoapbox, thank goodness.
But you and anyone can findmore about our work at the
Center for Literacy and Learningon our website at mycllorg and
certainly visit us during ourPlain Talk about Literacy and
(44:20):
Learning Institute or our PlainTalk about Dyslexia Summit.
We are always welcome towelcome folks to Louisiana.
We eat really well here, socome on down.
Pam Austin (44:30):
Yes, we do.
This is Pam Austin, bringingthe best thought leaders in
education directly to you.
Please join us next month foranother great EdVue 360 podcast.
Our podcast guests for Marchare Dr Louisa Motz and Dr Reed
Lyon.
You won't want to miss it.
Narrator (44:51):
This has been an EdVue 360 podcast.
For additionalthought-provoking discussions,
sign up for our blog, webinarand podcast series at
voyagersopriscom.
Slash edview360.
If you enjoyed the show, we'dlove a five-star review wherever
you listen to podcasts and tohelp other people like you find
(45:13):
our show.
Thank you.
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