April 23, 2026 • 45 mins
EEShow (Everything’s Energy Show)
EEShow is Everything’s Energy Show, a long-form interview podcast hosted by Michael Scalar. The official site is ee.show.
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Chapters
- (00:00) - Introduction to the Everything's Energy Show
- (01:04) - Personal Backstory: The Path to Preventative Care
- (02:48) - The Gut-Skin Connection: A Pediatric Health Breakthrough
- (04:52) - Limitations of the Conventional Medical Training System
- (06:19) - Crisis Care vs. Chronic Disease Management
- (07:56) - Addressing Polypharmacy and Medication Side Effects
- (09:34) - Counteracting Nutrient Depletion Caused by Pharmaceuticals
- (11:29) - Discovering Ozone Therapy: A Personal Family Crisis
- (15:54) - Defining a Holistic Primary Care Approach
- (17:17) - The Importance of Detailed Patient Intake and Physical Exams
- (23:01) - Environmental Burden and Modern Health Struggles
- (25:36) - The Mind-Body-Spirit Connection in Longevity
- (28:55) - Mitochondrial Health and Cellular Inflammation
- (30:27) - Metabolic Health: Rethinking Insulin and Pre-Diabetes
- (32:17) - Bridging the Gap Between Allopathic and Functional Medicine
- (36:12) - The Shifting Public Demand for Holistic Healthcare
- (38:55) - Reforming Healthcare Systems for the Future
- (41:31) - The Practitioner as Air Traffic Control
- (43:36) - Final Thoughts: Empowering Personal Health Responsibility
People
Creators & Guests- Roland - Writer
- Dr. Hannah Grushkowsky - Guest
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Episode Transcript
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Dr. Hannah (00:00):
I think we're not looking at the right things. So
(00:02):
we're not doing the righttesting. And again, not by the
conventional practitioner'sfault. We don't have a gut
health test in conventionalmedicine. Maybe if you go to a
GI doctor, they can do certainGI tests, and even those
sometimes will come back normal.
Roland (00:16):
Usually, it's just like a parasite analysis or something
somewhere.
Dr. Hannah (00:18):
Yeah. And the patient and if that's negative
and the patient still has thesymptoms, and so then where do
you go from there?
Roland (00:26):
Welcome back to the Everything's Energy Show today.
I'm your host Roland and I havea question for you. Do you feel
that the world of health ispolarizing? You're either on the
side of conventional allopathiccare or what's called
alternative medicine. Betteryet, can they actually coexist
in one spectrum that is actuallymeant to help people?
Well, today, I hope to answerthat question with my guest,
Doctor. Grishkowski. Did Ipronounce that right? I was
(00:49):
really trying to practicebeforehand.
Dr. Hannah (00:50):
You did. You got it right on the money.
Roland (00:52):
Okay, Hannah, you are a nurse practitioner but you have
a really cool backstory becauseyou are a classically trained
medical professional who alsowent outside the box to look at
things that were better to serveyour patient base. Is that a
fair way to say it?
Dr. Hannah (01:07):
Yes, absolutely.
Roland (01:08):
Can you talk to us a little bit about your backstory
because I really want to getinto the idea of how these two
coexist.
Dr. Hannah (01:13):
Yeah. Well it starts with a personal story. So first
of all my passion for nursingcame from my mom being diagnosed
with stage four colon cancer. Soshe was diagnosed at 58 years
old and if you know theguidelines you're actually
supposed to get a colonoscopy at50. So she never followed the
guidelines and when we went into get her checked they saw that
(01:36):
the cancer was all over so shewas stage four cancer.
From diagnosis to death it waslike six months so pretty quite
rapid. And then I started tothink you know everything goes
through your mind when you gothrough something so difficult
like that in your life. I was 19at the time. So could this have
been prevented? What could wehave done?
What caused it? Was it stress?Was her working two jobs? All
(02:01):
the what ifs just kind of wentthrough my mind and that's where
my passion for preventative carekind of started. And so I went
into nursing school, I went intothe hospital, and I thought I
was doing, you know, I was hereto help people, right?
Roland (02:15):
You're doing the thing.
Dr. Hannah (02:16):
I'm doing the thing. I thought, you know, this is
what I went into, you know,nursing for to help people. And
then I'm in the hospital and Irealize that it is more of a
sick system, that we're morereactive instead of proactive.
So we're more managing thesymptoms, we're more putting a
band aid on the symptoms, and Ikept seeing the same patients
come in and out, in and out,over and over and over again. So
(02:37):
they weren't getting better.
We were just kind of putting aband aid on, they were going
home, and then they were comingback again. And then I kind of
felt like we're really not trulyhelping these patients. And then
it gets kind of personal becauseonce I started to have kids, my
daughter had very severe eczemaon her face. I mean, so severe
that she was scratching her skinout. At night it was like a
(02:59):
bloodbath in her bed.
So I took her to her primarycare doctor and I took her to a
dermatologist and I took her toan allergist and basically what
we were doing is exactly whatI'm saying we were managing the
symptoms. So we'd put a steroidcream, it would go away, and
then it would come back with avengeance even stronger. And we
were to the point where it wasaffecting her daily life where
(03:22):
they even suggested she is goingto go on an anti cancer
medication to suppress herimmune system. And that's where
I said enough is enoughAbsolutely not. I said we've got
to find a different way.
And told my husband we cannotput her on this medication. So
we both looked around and lookedthrough his network and we found
a naturopath in Arizona. And hetold me the eczema is actually
(03:46):
coming from the stomach, it'sfrom the gut. And that was a big
like a light bulb went up in myhead. I was never taught that.
What does the gut have to dowith the skin? Well he taught me
it's a reflection of the skinand he did a food sensitivity
test and did somenaturaceuticals and knock on
this wood she has not had anoutbreak since. And so I learned
(04:07):
that there's a better way,there's possibly a safer way and
I was hoping to use that kind ofmedication as a very, very, very
last resort.
Roland (04:15):
Got it. Yeah that's a classic story I've heard many
times before. I actually havememory of I think it was a four
or five year old family friendof mine. Their daughter was
suggested to go on methotrexatefor the management of her so
it's a similar thing. And youknow it opens up a can of worms
in terms of a conversationbecause a lot of people who
start to do their own researchthey end up getting angry at the
(04:38):
medical system because they'relike why are you trying to
poison my kid?
And I'm not someone who everwants to start slinging arrows
at people because I think everymedical professional has a good
intention at core. Their heartis they want to help people. But
why does the medical system falldown in your mind based upon
their standard of care and thetools that they have to use?
(04:58):
What's the problem that you see?
Dr. Hannah (05:00):
I think most people go into medicine the same way
that I do that I want to helpsomebody. I want to help people.
We truly have good intentions.Unfortunately I feel it's the
system and it's the training andwe all go through classical
training. So for example innursing school we have a
pharmaceutical class everysemester.
Nutrition not so much. CAM whichis alternative medicine you know
(05:23):
one lecture. So we're just notinformed. Exercise you know,
you'll go to the doctor for yourfifteen to twenty minute primary
care visit, eat healthy andexercise. What does that mean?
Roland (05:34):
Nothing.
Dr. Hannah (05:34):
What does that mean for the person? It's
individualized, it's notholistic, it's not one on one to
the person. We're not trulytaking a deep dive into the
person because I feel like thesystem isn't designed that way.
We don't have the time asprimary care providers in
fifteen to twenty minutes to askabout, Are you hydrating? How is
(05:55):
your sleep?
How is your stress? You'relucky, you know, I was lucky to
listen to the patient's heartand lungs because they have a
list of things that they need togo through. So I think
unfortunately it goes back tothe system. I think the
practitioners have a good heart,as you said, and we have the
right intentions in mind, butthe system isn't designed to
allow us to do what we reallywanted to do.
Roland (06:19):
But because it is a system there has to be utility
to it, right? Like where doesthat system excel? Because I've
always said to people if I'm ina crisis scenario, if I'm in a
car accident I'm not going to anherbalist or I'm not going to
the homeopath if I have a staphinfection. There has to be some
utility to the system but Ithink it has to be framed so
(06:42):
people understand rather thanallow ignorance just to get
angry at something they don'tfully understand. What's your
opinion of that?
Dr. Hannah (06:48):
I very much agree with you. So there is a time and
a place. So if you break a bone,you're not going to go to a
primary care doctor visit. Thereare lifesaving techniques that
have been developed over time tohelp people make it through a
car accident or a broken bone orsomething severe. Or if somebody
is in severe pain, by all meansdon't let them suffer in pain.
(07:09):
But for the other things thatare chronic, I feel like there's
a better way. I feel like theycan be managed with lifestyle,
with how we eat, from anenvironmental perspective first
before moving to medication. Inmy practice, I really try to use
medication as a last resort aslong as it's not an emergency or
(07:29):
as long as the patient isn't insevere pain.
Roland (07:32):
Is part of your process getting people off medications
or is it more so someone comesin to see you and you triage I'm
going to start with theseprocesses and then if absolutely
necessary I'll use medication?Is your individual process?
Dr. Hannah (07:46):
Absolutely. It's exactly that. And I want to give
conventional medicine credit forthat because there is such a
thing in geriatrics aspolypharmacy. So when I was
working in an evidence basedpractice unit in my hospital we
actually tried to get patientsoff of their medication. We
tried to half the dose if theydidn't need it.
Whatever wasn't absolutelynecessary we tried to get them
off those medications.
Roland (08:08):
And this is a perspective that is held in the
allopathic system. Like thereare people who say these are too
many pills we're giving people.We need to do something to
reduce the load on them?
Dr. Hannah (08:18):
Right and that's what we call polypharmacy. And
so the more medications thepatient is on, the more side
effects there are and therecould be some deleterious
effects from that. For fallingfor example, there are many
medications if you combine themtogether increase your risk of
falling. So we'd want todecrease or minimize or
consolidate those kinds ofmedications.
Roland (08:38):
Unfortunately however you want to look at it it's a
huge industry and for profitindustries need to sell things
to sustain themselves. So thereis this push for people of a
certain age to think about themedications that they might need
given the circumstances. LikeI've flipped to I don't own a TV
but if I'm ever somewhere if youwatch commercials the quantity
(09:00):
of ads for medications and myfavorite part is side effects
might include and there's like27 lines of things and some of
them are like spontaneousdiarrhea. Was like that sounds
terrible but that's kind ofwhere we are. The average person
is indoctrinated to think ofprimary care, oh something's
going on with me, I need amedication.
They start the medication, itdoesn't resolve their issues.
(09:23):
Side effects may happen. Theydon't feel any better and I
think they sometimes getdisenchanted and feel stuck in
the system.
Dr. Hannah (09:28):
And not only that for those side effects,
sometimes you'll need anothermedication to manage those side
effects so you'll keep addingmore and more medications.
Roland (09:34):
Like a snowball rolling down a hill.
Dr. Hannah (09:36):
It is. So in my practice and some conventional
doctors do, we look at all themedications. My practice is more
so supplements because I'mworking more in prevention. I
have my patients bring all theirsupplements and all their
medications in because what Ialso do if they're on
medications I cross check theirmedications with the interaction
(09:56):
checker. So I want to see, Okay,if you have to take this
medication, if you must be on itfor a statin for example, it
depletes CoQ10.
I want to make sure they'regoing to be on CoQ10. So what
does it deplete and how can Isupport it if you must be on it?
Metformin classic medication fordiabetes depletes B12 so if you
must be on it let's make surethat we are repleting the
(10:17):
nutrients that it depletes inyour body.
Roland (10:19):
And that's not common knowledge to the average person
or even the average healthcareprovider is it?
Dr. Hannah (10:25):
You know I feel like as a nurse when I worked in a
hospital I had to know mymedications really, really well.
So it was my job in the hospitalwhen I gave a patient a new
medication to go over the sideeffects. After doing that so
many times and also in myschooling we learned to look at
what are the side effects foreach medication. I feel like
(10:47):
I've learned the pharmaceuticalpart pretty well.
Roland (10:50):
That's so wise though. It's not just what the side
effect is, it's what is going tobe depleted in your body that's
vital for normal function.
Dr. Hannah (10:58):
I will say that the repletion is not a common
practice.
Roland (11:02):
Part is what I'm kind of because getting I think anyone
who's listening, that's a reallygood if you are on a medication
a simple strategy is figure outwhat might help offset the long
term negative effects of justbeing depleted in certain
vitamins and minerals.
Dr. Hannah (11:14):
Absolutely.
Roland (11:15):
Okay so it sounds like you had a really, a baptism by
fire getting thrown into theenvironment for lack of better
description and then slowly yousaw the inefficiencies and the
shortcomings of a system. Whatwas the thing that made you take
your first step into going Iwant something else because I
don't like the word alternativehealth. To me it's health or
(11:37):
there's illness. We've talkedabout illness care so health
management is that outside ofthe use of pharmaceuticals but
what was the first step youtook?
Dr. Hannah (11:45):
There's a lot of misnomers in conventional
medicine. Honestly, so mydaughter was the first step. The
second step was actually myhusband.
Roland (11:56):
Okay, so it's really like close
Dr. Hannah (11:58):
Yeah, to home family now it's stuff for I said, Okay,
this is interesting. This is anew way of doing things. Then
I'm starting to think, I'mstarting to consider. But when
it hit even closer to home to myhusband that's what really
shifted me completely. So at 30years old my husband got sepsis.
Do you know what sepsis is?
Roland (12:15):
I do know what sepsis. That's terrifying.
Dr. Hannah (12:16):
Yeah. So it can be a full body infection precipitated
by something. So we didn't knowyet. So we had our first
daughter and I was pregnant withour son and my husband woke up
in the middle of the nightsaying very nonsensical things.
He was moving his hands in theair and I thought, What is going
on?
And then I touched him and hewas burning up. And I said, Oh
(12:38):
my God, he's got a fever. I gotto get him to the hospital right
now. And this is what you fearin the hospital is when
somebody's septic. It's anemergency.
Have to be
Roland (12:50):
IV infusion of antibiotics, all that kind
Dr. Hannah (12:52):
of stuff. I mean you got to take care of it right
now. So I didn't care if I waspregnant with our second child.
I put him on my shoulder. Didn'teven know how I did it.
Put him in the car.
Roland (13:00):
Super mom mode. Just get after it.
Dr. Hannah (13:02):
Like you don't even know how you got there. I got
there and I walk into thehospital. I said he's septic.
Check his lactic acid and admithim right away to my unit. So
that's exactly what happened.
I was right he was septic. Hewas admitted to my unit and what
we do in the hospital ifsomebody has a virus which is
what he did he had three viruseswe do symptom care. Symptom
(13:24):
management. Supportive care iswhat we call it. So you just
give the patient fluids.
You give them stuff to make themcomfortable. There's no
antibiotics for a virus. So whathappened was he had three
childhood viruses from ourdaughter likely because she was
in a daycare and it took overhis body. Why did it take over
his body? How did this take overa 30 year old body?
(13:46):
I'll tell you how and this isthe mainstay of my practice by
the way. Stress. Not eatingwell. Not exercising.
Overworking.
You know running two companies.Being a new dad. I mean this is
a recipe for immune systemsuppression and dysfunction.
Roland (14:02):
But it also sounds like commonplace in 2026. Like that's
not an unusual circumstance fora young person to be in.
Dr. Hannah (14:10):
Right. This was a point where it was deadly for my
husband. I mean he could havedied from this. That could have
been it for him. So his businesspartner mentioned something I've
never heard before which isozone therapy.
So he said ozone therapy and youknow being the person that I am
I looked it up, I put it inGoogle, the first thing that it
(14:32):
says is it's a toxic gas thatcan kill you.
Roland (14:34):
Dangerous, yes. Don't do it.
Dr. Hannah (14:36):
And I looked at him and I said, Are you serious
right now? You want to kill myhusband? Absolutely not. You're
not going to do this. So myhusband got discharged, still
having fevers.
So he was stable, but he wasstill not 100% well. He had
ozone therapy done and then hewas like 50% better. And I said,
(14:57):
I kinda you know, I'm I'm askeptic. So I said, oh, he got
to rest. He didn't have to work.
He didn't have the stress of theenvironment around him. He
probably just recovered himself.And then that December I got the
flu and then his businesspartner comes to me again and he
says, Hannah, why don't you gotry ozone therapy? Well I said,
know, it's a virus, same thing.I miss the window for Tamiflu.
(15:21):
It's miserable having the flu ifyou've ever had it. So I said,
know, at this point what can beworse than this? I did ozone
therapy.
Roland (15:27):
We'll try the scary thing that I Google told me not
to
Dr. Hannah (15:31):
did it and I was 90% better and I said there's
something here. And this is thename of my practice, this is
where it started. So I startedwith ozone therapy. And then
with my patients moving forward,my patient would ask, Hey, can
you also help me with thisissue? And can you help me with
that issue?
And so then I started learningand taking classes and that's
where my functional medicinebackground kind of came into
(15:52):
fruition. And so I was lookingat the root cause of disease
now.
Roland (15:57):
Okay so what I'm hearing is you have essentially taken
your definition of primary careand you've turned it on its
head. Your primary care is notallopathic primary care. That's
the last aspect for you. Itstill has some utility but your
primary care is about addressingthe person from a holistic point
of view, correct?
Dr. Hannah (16:17):
Right. I'm just basically trying to take the
best of both worlds and put themtogether to look at the patient
holistically and help them withtheir goals. I'm a partner in
the person's health because atthe end of the day the patient
has to do the work. I'm here toprovide the guidance based on my
experience and my knowledge andbased on their goals and what
they are willing, ready and opento do. Because if I suggest
(16:38):
something that they'reabsolutely not going to do,
which unfortunately there's alot of cookie cutter recipes in
conventional medicine.
The patient you're going to tellthem to do exercise like this,
eat this and they're probablynot going to do it. It really
has to fit within them and theirschedule.
Roland (16:55):
That's fair. And even in that, in getting into the world
of functional medicine I thinkbecause there's been such an
influx of people wanting to gointo this field there have been
some cookie cutter things thatI've seen evolve from people who
are just kind of wanting to getinto it really quickly but not
necessarily understanding thenuance. How many years have you
been doing this personally?
Dr. Hannah (17:17):
Functional medicine, having my practice probably
about five or six years but Ican't discount everything that I
learned in the hospital becausethat is very applicable to what
I do. Altogether probably aboutfifteen years.
Roland (17:32):
Okay, so what does it look like if someone comes in to
see you? From the beginning ofthe process is there a detailed
health history? Is there ananalysis of behaviors? Is there
some extensive testing? Whatdoes the process actually look
like?
Dr. Hannah (17:45):
So the first process is doing a fifteen minute call
with me. First I want to see ifit's a good fit, If it's going
be a good partnership because ifthe patient has unrealistic
expectations and I can't meet,it's not going to be a good fit.
If they're not willing to reallytake health into their hands and
make the interventions and thechanges, it's probably not a
good fit. So it really has to befirst I want to get to know the
(18:08):
patient. I want to see is thisgoing to be a good partnership?
So first can we work together?That's the first step. And then
if we are going to work togetherthen it's a one hour physical
exam. When I went to nursingschool, it's the same exam that
a physician gets. It's a onehour exam and in that exam I get
(18:29):
so much information from thepatient's body.
I start you know the wheelsstart turning. I start thinking
okay now there's a circulationissue. Know maybe there's a
nervous system issue when I'mchecking the cranial nerves.
Know things start clicking.
Roland (18:42):
You start to see this mind map sort
Dr. Hannah (18:44):
start to see what I'm going to look for in
conjunction with the patient'sgoals and see where we're going
to go from there. Unfortunatelywhen you go to a primary care
visit it's a fifteen to twentyminute visit and you don't have
the time to do the one hour examthat you were trained to do in
school. So you're limited. Andwhen I worked in primary care,
(19:05):
you have to see 20 to 30patients in a day, fifteen to
twenty minute visits. I don'tknow anybody's name.
I barely felt like I could trulylisten to the patient and have
the time to really go throughwhat's going on before I have to
move on to the next person. Andat the end of the day, I don't
feel like I did my true duediligence as a practitioner to
truly help that patient. And Ifelt like a bad practitioner,
(19:28):
and that's why I shifted to thismodel. And then I also ask for a
very, very detailed intake. Iwant to know the past medical
history, what medications,supplements they're on.
I want to know how's the stress.I want to know if it's a female.
I want to know theirreproductive history. I want to
know about hydration. Somepeople just don't drink enough
(19:48):
water.
What kind of water are youdrinking? How often are you
drinking? This is so basic andimportant. And so I really take
that detailed history and we goover that in that first visit as
well. And then after that it'sthe individualized plan for the
patient.
It's a holistic plan addressingone, what are the patient's
goals because I want to helpthem with their goals and what I
(20:11):
think is going to help them intheir direction.
Roland (20:14):
I think it's so wonderful for people to hear
that process because when you'rein the health industry as you
and I are, we take a lot forgranted in terms of the
assumption of what we eitheralready know or the things that
we don't think about very much.But if you put yourself in the
position of someone who'sstruggling who's never explored
health outside going to a doctoror hospital that what you just
(20:35):
said is really the fundamentalsof what has to be known. So why
I think this is important andwhy I want to bring this up is
if anyone's listening to thisget to know your details and
your stories about all thesethings because even just taking
what you've said and crossexamining your own life and
existence it gives you morepower with knowledge of being
self aware and that aspect ofself awareness I think can bring
(20:57):
you to that next step offiguring out what you may need
in terms of where your journeyis taking you.
Dr. Hannah (21:02):
Yeah absolutely. And everybody is so different.
What's their family history?What's your genetic makeup? What
blueprint were you given?
And that also helps me directthings in a more specific and
individualized way as well.
Roland (21:15):
Do you do a lot of individual testing like that
genetic testing, nutritionalanalysis, urine analysis, stool?
Do you get into the functionaltesting side of things?
Dr. Hannah (21:24):
Absolutely. So again we go back to the basics which
is the physical exam which iswhere it should start and vitals
are vital. The vital signsalready tells me if there's a
severe problem right up front.So I do that in the beginning of
the exam. And then after usuallyit's going to be pretty
comprehensive blood work.
And then again it's going to bevery specific. If somebody is
(21:45):
suffering with hormonal symptomsI'm going to think of hormonal
testing. If I see that they'revery stressed I'm going think of
adrenal testing. If they havegut health issues then I'm going
to think of a gut health test.So it just really depends on the
person and what's going on withthem.
If they're fine, there are somepeople who are just like
magically they come in with nosymptoms, very rare. I just want
to be healthy and well. I wantto live forever. Then I can
(22:08):
start with a different kind ofplan. That's more of a health
optimization plan.
So that's a whole differentperspective. But usually people
come to see me because thetraditional medical system has
failed them. They're not feelingwell. They've been suffering
with chronic issues their wholelife and nobody can figure out
what it is. They've gone frompractitioner to practitioner.
And a lot of times, believe itor not, it's actually just
(22:31):
listening to the patient, Justhearing the story and I can kind
of guess what basically happenedor what might be the issue. When
it started? Do you even have thechance to ask, You have this
chronic issue. When did itstarted? When did it start?
What happened right before that?Did you have any kind of trauma?
Any kind of event that happenedbefore? What precipitated what
(22:54):
happened? So even just askingthose simple questions a lot of
times will give me the answers.
Roland (22:59):
Why do you think so many people are struggling right now
with their health? Because thatscenario gone from patient or
practitioner to practitionercan't find help anywhere that's
not an uncommon story nowadays.I can't tell you how many times
I've heard that story in thelast few years and I think it's
getting more common. What do youthink is happening with society
from a health or an illnessperspective?
Dr. Hannah (23:21):
That's a loaded question.
Roland (23:23):
I want your opinion. You don't know everything but I'd
like to know I your opinion as athink
Dr. Hannah (23:27):
we're not looking at the right things. So we're not
doing the right testing. Andagain, not by the conventional
practitioner's fault. They don'tknow. We don't have a gut health
test in conventional medicine.
Maybe if you go to a GI doctor,they can do certain GI tests.
Even those sometimes will comeback normal.
Roland (23:45):
Usually it's just like a parasite analysis or something
similar.
Dr. Hannah (23:47):
Yeah, if that's negative and the patient still
has the symptoms, then where doyou go from there? Then So we
get to, Okay, well it's probablynot a medical issue, it's
probably a mental health issue.So a lot of patients
unfortunately get gaslit and getshunted to a psychiatrist or a
(24:08):
psychologist and again we arebeing put medication. I think
that the testing that I do isreally important to look at the
patient holistically. Basicblood testing will give me a lot
of answers.
I can just kind of see theblueprint from there. And
genetic testing too which wedon't do unless again in
(24:28):
conventional medicine if there'san issue then we'll go to a
geneticist and look at somethingdeeply. If you have a strong
history of an aggressive cancerthen we'll go and do that kind
of test or give you to thatspecialist to do that kind of
test. The other thing you askedof why people are suffering so
much so that's from the medicalperspective how you search for
the answers like a detective.
Roland (24:50):
I like that delineation there, yeah.
Dr. Hannah (24:52):
Is the environmental burden. So in The United States
we are unfortunately the sickestpopulation in the world. Why?
And I'm guessing that it'sprobably from our environmental
burden from the processed foodsto the sedentary lifestyle to
the high stress to the lack ofexercise. I mean, if you had a
(25:12):
hard day, what are we going todo?
Us buddies are going to go get adrink. Instead of going to get a
drink, which is not thehealthiest choice, why don't we
go get a massage? Why don't wego meditate in the forest?
Roland (25:25):
See a group of guys just walking in the park holding
hands sitting in a meditationcircle.
Dr. Hannah (25:29):
You know what I mean? It's just we've normalized
that kind of culture here. So ifyou're having a hard day, we're
going smoke some marijuana, gotake a cigarette or make a non
healthy choice. So I feel likealso even sleep. Sleep is for
the week.
These are things that you'vekind of heard. Power your sleep.
(25:53):
Work nonstop. You got to keeptrucking until you get to the
top of the ladder. So I reallyfeel like it's just our culture
and our environment that has setus up to be this way.
Roland (26:05):
Yeah I think you can encompass it with saying our
relationship with reality isreally wired to be unhealthy
from the expectation side ofthings because when you're
talking about the gaslightingaspect of things for people I've
got a lot of these in the past,what I call them like medical
failures. Why I say failure isthere's something that someone
couldn't figure out. So theyjust went, it's in your head or,
(26:28):
ah, it's not a thing. And Iwanted to ask because you take
so much time to work to get toknow the person and work with
them and understand them. Howmuch do you feel the physical
aspects of their suffering arebeing driven by psycho
emotional, mental, or even likeenergetic spiritual influences?
Cause I know that there's anelement of that that you do
(26:48):
consider. Correct?
Dr. Hannah (26:49):
So it's not separate from each other. I do believe
the path to longevity becausethat's what is kind of my
passion is mind body spirit. Soyou can't deny connected to the
body and the body is connectedto the mind and there's
communication between the mindand the body. So that is
science. And I believe that thespiritual aspect comes in too.
(27:13):
What kind of trauma did theperson go through in their life?
So I don't work with thoseaspects specifically, meaning I
don't do those therapies, but Iwill refer as long as the
patient is open to do thosetherapies because at the end of
the day, I'm trying to help thepatient and I'm trying to find
out what is the best thing forthem. So something like EMDR for
example which is actuallycovered by insurance for most
(27:36):
insurances is a trauma therapythat can help a patient. Some
patients believe in Reiki orenergy so maybe that's going to
be the right therapy for thepatient. Maybe hypnotherapy,
maybe it's somethingsubconscious that is bothering
the patient.
Every time they look at a light,all of a sudden they get
anxious. That could go back tochildhood where somebody woke
them up flashing a light intheir eye and you never have any
(27:57):
idea that looking at a light allof a sudden that's the trauma
that was caused at five yearsold. You cannot consciously know
that. That goes back to thesubconscious. So again, I'm
really open to working withother practitioners.
I do a lot of referrals becauseI'm mainly working on the
physical body, but I can't denythose other aspects because I've
seen my patients improve and getbetter. I've seen it in their
(28:18):
blood markers.
Roland (28:19):
I was going to ask you Do you see physiologic change
from someone addressing nonphysical things in their
reality? And if so, you sharesome examples of what shifted?
Dr. Hannah (28:28):
Absolutely. So in the adrenal test, cortisol, I
mean I've seen some shifts inusing adaptogens which are
supplements. I've seen changeswhen people go through
meditation or when they use yogaor when they do some kind of
calming ritual every day. I'veseen that in the blood work.
Roland (28:47):
So
Dr. Hannah (28:49):
when we go to the root cause of disease, a lot of
root cause of disease isinflammation. I look at probably
like at least probably six toeight biomarkers of
inflammation. So inflammation iscaused by, you know, it could be
mental, it could be physical, itcould be environmental. I've
(29:09):
seen those numbers come down aswell which comes down to the
physical level.
Roland (29:13):
Interesting and anytime inflammation is high like
chronically that leads todegeneration and if people can
get a hold of that they canreally start to reverse
themselves out of like badautoimmune flare ups or various
pain syndromes, neurologicalchallenges, that the quality of
life can just take off as aresult of that.
Dr. Hannah (29:30):
Absolutely. And then now you're basically talking
about mitochondrial health,which is cellular health.
Roland (29:36):
Talk about that a little bit more because that's a
buzzword now. Mitochondria, it'sfunny. The thing you learn in
grade 10 biology class you tryto forget about for the entirety
of your life then because youget interested in health you see
an Instagram ad for amitochondrial support supplement
and everyone's like, Oh I wantmy mitochondria to work better.
Dr. Hannah (29:55):
Here's the key. If your cells are healthy, you're
going to be healthy. So why areour cells not healthy? And
that's a loaded question too butusually my patients are on some
kind of mitochondrial cellularsupport because over time
sometimes the cells have lostthat ability to clean themselves
up or to do its job and we haveto give it a little bit of
(30:17):
support because as you said ourbodies are designed to heal. We
just have to give it the toolsor get it in the state where
it's able to heal.
Roland (30:27):
That makes me think of something interesting. I don't
know if this is possible topinpoint but you said most of
your clients are on amitochondrial support. Are you
seeing patterns in peoplenowadays that are common things
that are showing up like thingsthat are in blood work or maybe
even conditions that arestarting to become more frequent
and shared across populations?
Dr. Hannah (30:45):
Absolutely. So the two things I see are
inflammation which as I said isa root cause of disease and
metabolic health dysfunction isa big issue. And what I do as
far as a preventativeperspective and it's such an
easy test to do is the insulinlevel. So a fasting insulin
level can tell me potentially adecade, ten years in advance
(31:08):
before pre diabetes. And by theway, for me, pre diabetes is
diabetes.
I find it a misnomer. I don'tthink we should call it pre
diabetes because it's like thestage before prediabetes so we
don't really have to worry aboutit. It's not really a
Roland (31:22):
big You're messed up but you're not that bad so I won't
deal with it just like But
Dr. Hannah (31:25):
here's the thing. Prediabetes, you're having
damage to the beta cellsalready. So if you're already
damaging the organ, that'sdisease in my mind. So why would
we call it pre diabetes?
Roland (31:35):
And that's pancreatic damage just to be specific, Yes.
Okay.
Dr. Hannah (31:38):
Sorry, it got a little technical.
Roland (31:39):
It's excitement, I feel it.
Dr. Hannah (31:42):
So I do an insulin test and sometimes I do an
insulin panel. It's specialbiomarker panel to just kind of
see because you can have insulinresistance and pre diabetes at
the same time, but usually it'sgoing to start before we get to
pre diabetes. So again, I'mtrying to prevent disease or
(32:03):
catch it early on where it'smuch more it's easier to reverse
when you catch it earlier. Youcan still potentially reverse it
you know once you're in prediabetes diabetes but it's going
to take a lot more work onceyou've gotten to that point.
Roland (32:15):
Got it. Okay so just to kind of recap because we've gone
down some incredible avenues ofdiscussion here. It sounds like
at least from my perspective theprimary care thing is really
about crisis management and justdealing with things in a
reactive way as quickly aspossible and processing as many
people through the system as youpossibly can. What you've moved
(32:36):
to is you've taken the best ofthat model because the one thing
I'll give the allopathic side ofthings their diagnostics and
their understanding ofmechanisms is sound, is robust.
Their treatment is notnecessarily the best but they're
the ones who can diagnose andyou can't work off of a
diagnosis if you can't diagnoseright so there's utility there.
(32:56):
But it sounds like yourevolution has been really about
going deep with the person,getting to know the entirety of
the landscape and then once youhave a pattern of what's going
on you can subcategorize andtest like take little samples
around the swimming pool so tospeak of that person's reality
and start to formulate apicture. And that picture can
(33:19):
then help you build a plan tohelp that person on an
individual basis because no twopeople are unique. Do I have it
decently?
Dr. Hannah (33:27):
Yes.
Roland (33:28):
Okay. Why aren't there more of you? Why is it that we
still have so few people whohave bridged these two worlds?
Dr. Hannah (33:39):
Like I said, I think the traditional model is going
to nurse practitioner medicalschool. So just going down that
path, that's just what you learnand that's just what you know,
and you're kind of in a tunnelvision. So unless you have maybe
something personal that happenedto you specifically or a family
member, there's not much toreally shift that trajectory. Or
unless you're working in ahospital and you have an moment
(34:00):
and then you kind of realize,Wait a second, is this kind of a
sick system? Are we morereactive instead of proactive?
So we already have the algorithmallopathically and most people
are just going to kind of gowith allopathic. And some people
are okay. They want to go totheir day to day work. They want
to come home and get theirpaycheck and they want to live
(34:22):
their lives. Some people don'tnecessarily want to go that
further mile.
I mean, already have mydoctorate degree. It wasn't very
exciting for me to go throughmore school, but I did it
because of my passion and I tookclasses that were specific that
were relevant for my practiceand for my patients. And I'm
still open by the way. A goodpractitioner is always learning
(34:44):
and always looking at what's thenext thing and what is the new
science and how do you applythat to the patient in the
practice? Because the scienceshows it takes ten years to get
evidence based practice into thehospital, into a practice.
Whereas because I work formyself, I can do that now. So if
my patient has a certain issueand I'm interested in that issue
(35:06):
to help the patient, I'm goinggo do some research. I'm going
go down the rabbit hole and seehow I can best help that
patient. And that's why everyyear I go to the A four ms
longevity conference because Iwant to learn what's the latest
and greatest. What are the newmachines?
What are the new techniques?What are the new analysis? What
are the new tools? What are thenew supplements that are out
there? So science is alwaysgrowing and changing but it's
(35:29):
also an art.
It's really an art and a scienceand it's put together.
Roland (35:32):
Perfectly said. I couldn't agree more. The science
is the kind of what you do andhow but the art is how do you
actually gather it and give itshape and then apply it to the
individual. I think the hardestthing about working with
patients is not how well versedyou are in the different
scientific disciplines. It's canyou connect with this person?
(35:53):
Can you find relation with themin a way that they trust you,
they're open and they're goingto be willing to do what it is
you say and you can monitortheir progress along the way and
justifiably make changes ratherthan going ah it's been about a
year since I've seen you. Yeahlooks about right. Okay. See you
later. See you next year.
There's something about what yousaid that has been this wonder
(36:16):
in my head and I agree with you.Some people once they've
invested so much time and money,it's not inexpensive in America
to get a doctorate degree or tobecome a, you know, it's a half
$1,000,000 of school in manyyears of your life. I understand
why someone wouldn't want to go,well, everything I've just done,
I'm going to throw out and I'mgoing to go this way. But what
do you think it's going to takefor people to not have to have
(36:38):
such a painful personalexperience, make them more
interested in things beyond thescope of where they're looking.
If you live in a myopic littleworld then you're like a horse
with the blinders on movingthrough life not necessarily
ever looking to the left orlooking to the right.
I'm so interested in seeing whatthe catalyst can be to help
unify health and at least mylifetime or the lifetime of the
(37:01):
next generation. What do youthink it's going to take for
medicine to move forwards andbecome more fluid to maybe adopt
more of a similar model that youhave currently?
Dr. Hannah (37:10):
It's going to come from the demand of the people.
So I think it's alreadyshifting. I think after COVID
happened, I mean our countrywent through mass trauma. I mean
some people and some of mypatients started with me this
way. They were severely sickwith COVID and they basically
said, Help me stay healthy.
I never want to be sick likethis again. Or the fear of going
(37:31):
to the hospital and maybe notmaking it out. People started to
reevaluate how they started tothink about their own health and
their family's health andlooking more at a preventative
aspect as how do I stay healthy?How do I not get sick? And so I
think it's already shifting.
The second aspect of it is thesocial media. So there's a lot
(37:51):
of education out there. There'sa lot of practitioners like
myself who have Instagram pageswho are educating patients. Mean
perimenopause is now most peopleknow what that means from all
the mass education. I mean, evenOprah started talking about it
on her show.
And celebrities like DrewBarrymore and other people
(38:12):
started opening other people'seyes and talking about their own
personal experience. So I thinkthat now that people start
talking about it more, thatthere's a greater knowledge and
a greater desire for these kindsof things. I mean, I see online
all the time, Do you know afunctional medicine provider? Or
even somebody is literallyasking, Can they help me with
the root cause of my issue?Which is literally what
(38:34):
functional medicine is.
There are people who are lookingfor a more holistic, natural way
to manage their health. They'relooking for it. It's starting to
become a demand.
Roland (38:44):
I think that's a very wise perspective and it's what I
thought too. It's going to be agroup of people going into the
office of a practitionerchallenging them on I know this
thing I want to know the answerto this question and the
practitioner going Shit I don'tknow what that even is let alone
what to answer this person. AndI could see it being something
(39:05):
that may rub some people thewrong way but it's a call to
action because it's ridiculousto say but health has become
vogue. It's become trendy andthe reason I say it's ridiculous
is that it has to do that forpeople to catch on because to me
health is the most valuableresource we have. Time's number
one.
Health is number two in myworld. You can regain your
(39:25):
health but you can never gettime back but if you use your
time wisely you can maintainyour health.
Dr. Hannah (39:30):
Also if you don't have your health you don't have
time right?
Roland (39:33):
Not much it's true.
Dr. Hannah (39:34):
So in my opinion health comes first because if
you don't have your health youdon't have anything. You can't
be there for your family. Youcan't operate. You cannot work.
You might even lose your time ifyou keep operating at a certain
way unless you make some shifts.
In my opinion health is numberone.
Roland (39:51):
I can't debate that. That's a nice frame. I like
that. What are you excited aboutfor the future in terms of
healthcare? Where do you seethings going?
What do you think is coming?
Dr. Hannah (40:03):
So I see in our administration I don't want to
get too political here but Ifeel like people are starting to
open their eyes. So for example,the processed food industry
shifting to not having food dyesanymore because people are
becoming more aware. Evaluatingthe evidence of the current
(40:25):
science of why we structurethings and have the algorithm
that we do I think is abeautiful thing to just kind of
see has the way we have donethings before, is it still
working? Is it going to continueto work? So just evaluating what
we currently do I think is goingto be a great shift.
But again, I think it's reallygoing to come from the system
(40:49):
perspective. I can do as much asI can as a solo practitioner to
help a certain population and mypatients, but it's got to come
from the system. The schoolinghas to change. The direction has
to change. Maybe even insurancecoverage needs to change on how
they evaluate like a physicalexam for example.
(41:11):
Maybe they'll start coveringlike a one hour exam instead of
a fifteen to twenty minute exambecause a specialist gets more
than that and they're looking atone system. Your GI doctor, your
gastroenterologist is justlooking at your stomach and they
get more time than a primarycare doctor who is trying to
look at all of you and all ofyour systems together.
Roland (41:30):
That statement which you just made about the specialist
being mono focused I thinkthat's something that needs to
dissolve as time goes on becauseI've had my own family
challenges seeing you know apsychologist, a neurologist and
a gerontologist all treating afamily member. None of them talk
to each other. One prescribes amedication that interacts
(41:52):
negatively with the other so astime goes on I hope the concept
of holistic becomes somethingthat every single practitioner
thinks about because everythingaffects everything.
Dr. Hannah (42:04):
Absolutely. You have to have somebody who has air
traffic control in the middle.I'll tell you when I worked in
the hospital as a nurse I wasair traffic control. So for my
patient we had differentspecialties giving them
medications and so I had to knowif one medication from the
cardiologist is going tointeract with the medication for
(42:25):
the nephrologist and I had tolet them know these two
medications interact which onedo you want to give the patient?
Roland (42:32):
That's a ton of responsibility.
Dr. Hannah (42:33):
It is a ton of responsibility but I am the one
administering the medication soI have to be aware of what those
medications can do to thepatient.
Roland (42:42):
You would think the doctor would have to know that
though because they're theprescribing physician.
Dr. Hannah (42:47):
But they don't know what the other one is
prescribing.
Roland (42:49):
That's the fault of the system right there.
Dr. Hannah (42:51):
And again, I'm sure maybe I haven't been in a
hospital in a while, so I'mhoping that now with technology
that you have the interactionchecker where it can see or it
can flag you and maybe thepharmacist is going to take a
look and change. This is againwhen I was there. So again
things are shifting andchanging. Our technology is
changing. We have AI now.
(43:11):
So I mean we are moving in atotally different direction.
Roland (43:15):
That's wild. I'm going to take away from this that the
evidence based medicine model isten years in the past today.
Everything we're doing on agrowth scale, a population or
societal scale is actually tenyears out of date according to
what is being elucidated. Ithink that's a very powerful
statement.
Dr. Hannah (43:34):
You're correct.
Roland (43:35):
Doctor. We've weaved a very wonderful tapestry of
understanding health and allthings related to it. You are
based in Las Vegas. What is thename of your practice and what
is it that you want to sharewith people? Where can they find
out more about you?
I want you to share a little bitabout yourself before we sign
off here.
Dr. Hannah (43:53):
So I feel like I've shared enough about myself. I've
shared my personal story. So ifyou want to get in touch with
me, my company's name is Doctor.Ozone and we have a physical
practice here. We also do seepatients remotely in Los Angeles
as well in California.
So we do have a remote basedpractice there and it's
(44:14):
doctorozone.com.
Roland (44:16):
And
Dr. Hannah (44:17):
if you have somewhere I can also give you
the links. If you want to followme I also like to post a lot of
just general health information.If I feel like something is
really applicable to what I do Iwant people to know about it
because it's not just in myoffice. I only have a certain
amount of time to talk about thepatient's specific issues and
(44:39):
what they're kind of lookingfor. But there's a lot of
general things that I feel likepeople should know.
Like the insulin level forexample. That's something that
you can ask your doctor to addto your panel that should be
uncovered I hope should becovered by insurance. And start
being preventative about yourhealth.
Roland (44:55):
Yeah, personal responsibility is something that
I think slowly but surelyeveryone's going to learn that
they need to take more onbecause no one's coming to save
you. There are only resourcesout there once you decide to
want to take responsibility foryourself.
Dr. Hannah (45:09):
Absolutely. At the end of the day you're the one
who's gonna have to make thechanges. Nobody should care
about you more than you.
Roland (45:15):
100%. Best investment is in yourself.
Dr. Hannah (45:18):
Yes.
Roland (45:19):
Thank you so much for sharing everything today. This
has been a wonderfulconversation.
Dr. Hannah (45:23):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Roland (45:24):
All right and everyone I hope you really resonated with
this. Please do like, share,subscribe. If you do feel this
will resonate with someoneplease send it to them. So if
they want to seek out more abouthow to help themselves in their
own journey they can. We'll seeyou next time.
I think we're not looking at the right things. So
(00:02):
we're not doing the righttesting. And again, not by the
conventional practitioner'sfault. We don't have a gut
health test in conventionalmedicine. Maybe if you go to a
GI doctor, they can do certainGI tests, and even those
sometimes will come back normal.
Roland (00:16):
Usually, it's just like a parasite analysis or something
somewhere.
Dr. Hannah (00:18):
Yeah. And the patient and if that's negative
and the patient still has thesymptoms, and so then where do
you go from there?
Roland (00:26):
Welcome back to the Everything's Energy Show today.
I'm your host Roland and I havea question for you. Do you feel
that the world of health ispolarizing? You're either on the
side of conventional allopathiccare or what's called
alternative medicine. Betteryet, can they actually coexist
in one spectrum that is actuallymeant to help people?
Well, today, I hope to answerthat question with my guest,
Doctor. Grishkowski. Did Ipronounce that right? I was
(00:49):
really trying to practicebeforehand.
Dr. Hannah (00:50):
You did. You got it right on the money.
Roland (00:52):
Okay, Hannah, you are a nurse practitioner but you have
a really cool backstory becauseyou are a classically trained
medical professional who alsowent outside the box to look at
things that were better to serveyour patient base. Is that a
fair way to say it?
Dr. Hannah (01:07):
Yes, absolutely.
Roland (01:08):
Can you talk to us a little bit about your backstory
because I really want to getinto the idea of how these two
coexist.
Dr. Hannah (01:13):
Yeah. Well it starts with a personal story. So first
of all my passion for nursingcame from my mom being diagnosed
with stage four colon cancer. Soshe was diagnosed at 58 years
old and if you know theguidelines you're actually
supposed to get a colonoscopy at50. So she never followed the
guidelines and when we went into get her checked they saw that
(01:36):
the cancer was all over so shewas stage four cancer.
From diagnosis to death it waslike six months so pretty quite
rapid. And then I started tothink you know everything goes
through your mind when you gothrough something so difficult
like that in your life. I was 19at the time. So could this have
been prevented? What could wehave done?
What caused it? Was it stress?Was her working two jobs? All
(02:01):
the what ifs just kind of wentthrough my mind and that's where
my passion for preventative carekind of started. And so I went
into nursing school, I went intothe hospital, and I thought I
was doing, you know, I was hereto help people, right?
Roland (02:15):
You're doing the thing.
Dr. Hannah (02:16):
I'm doing the thing. I thought, you know, this is
what I went into, you know,nursing for to help people. And
then I'm in the hospital and Irealize that it is more of a
sick system, that we're morereactive instead of proactive.
So we're more managing thesymptoms, we're more putting a
band aid on the symptoms, and Ikept seeing the same patients
come in and out, in and out,over and over and over again. So
(02:37):
they weren't getting better.
We were just kind of putting aband aid on, they were going
home, and then they were comingback again. And then I kind of
felt like we're really not trulyhelping these patients. And then
it gets kind of personal becauseonce I started to have kids, my
daughter had very severe eczemaon her face. I mean, so severe
that she was scratching her skinout. At night it was like a
(02:59):
bloodbath in her bed.
So I took her to her primarycare doctor and I took her to a
dermatologist and I took her toan allergist and basically what
we were doing is exactly whatI'm saying we were managing the
symptoms. So we'd put a steroidcream, it would go away, and
then it would come back with avengeance even stronger. And we
were to the point where it wasaffecting her daily life where
(03:22):
they even suggested she is goingto go on an anti cancer
medication to suppress herimmune system. And that's where
I said enough is enoughAbsolutely not. I said we've got
to find a different way.
And told my husband we cannotput her on this medication. So
we both looked around and lookedthrough his network and we found
a naturopath in Arizona. And hetold me the eczema is actually
(03:46):
coming from the stomach, it'sfrom the gut. And that was a big
like a light bulb went up in myhead. I was never taught that.
What does the gut have to dowith the skin? Well he taught me
it's a reflection of the skinand he did a food sensitivity
test and did somenaturaceuticals and knock on
this wood she has not had anoutbreak since. And so I learned
(04:07):
that there's a better way,there's possibly a safer way and
I was hoping to use that kind ofmedication as a very, very, very
last resort.
Roland (04:15):
Got it. Yeah that's a classic story I've heard many
times before. I actually havememory of I think it was a four
or five year old family friendof mine. Their daughter was
suggested to go on methotrexatefor the management of her so
it's a similar thing. And youknow it opens up a can of worms
in terms of a conversationbecause a lot of people who
start to do their own researchthey end up getting angry at the
(04:38):
medical system because they'relike why are you trying to
poison my kid?
And I'm not someone who everwants to start slinging arrows
at people because I think everymedical professional has a good
intention at core. Their heartis they want to help people. But
why does the medical system falldown in your mind based upon
their standard of care and thetools that they have to use?
(04:58):
What's the problem that you see?
Dr. Hannah (05:00):
I think most people go into medicine the same way
that I do that I want to helpsomebody. I want to help people.
We truly have good intentions.Unfortunately I feel it's the
system and it's the training andwe all go through classical
training. So for example innursing school we have a
pharmaceutical class everysemester.
Nutrition not so much. CAM whichis alternative medicine you know
(05:23):
one lecture. So we're just notinformed. Exercise you know,
you'll go to the doctor for yourfifteen to twenty minute primary
care visit, eat healthy andexercise. What does that mean?
Roland (05:34):
Nothing.
Dr. Hannah (05:34):
What does that mean for the person? It's
individualized, it's notholistic, it's not one on one to
the person. We're not trulytaking a deep dive into the
person because I feel like thesystem isn't designed that way.
We don't have the time asprimary care providers in
fifteen to twenty minutes to askabout, Are you hydrating? How is
(05:55):
your sleep?
How is your stress? You'relucky, you know, I was lucky to
listen to the patient's heartand lungs because they have a
list of things that they need togo through. So I think
unfortunately it goes back tothe system. I think the
practitioners have a good heart,as you said, and we have the
right intentions in mind, butthe system isn't designed to
allow us to do what we reallywanted to do.
Roland (06:19):
But because it is a system there has to be utility
to it, right? Like where doesthat system excel? Because I've
always said to people if I'm ina crisis scenario, if I'm in a
car accident I'm not going to anherbalist or I'm not going to
the homeopath if I have a staphinfection. There has to be some
utility to the system but Ithink it has to be framed so
(06:42):
people understand rather thanallow ignorance just to get
angry at something they don'tfully understand. What's your
opinion of that?
Dr. Hannah (06:48):
I very much agree with you. So there is a time and
a place. So if you break a bone,you're not going to go to a
primary care doctor visit. Thereare lifesaving techniques that
have been developed over time tohelp people make it through a
car accident or a broken bone orsomething severe. Or if somebody
is in severe pain, by all meansdon't let them suffer in pain.
(07:09):
But for the other things thatare chronic, I feel like there's
a better way. I feel like theycan be managed with lifestyle,
with how we eat, from anenvironmental perspective first
before moving to medication. Inmy practice, I really try to use
medication as a last resort aslong as it's not an emergency or
(07:29):
as long as the patient isn't insevere pain.
Roland (07:32):
Is part of your process getting people off medications
or is it more so someone comesin to see you and you triage I'm
going to start with theseprocesses and then if absolutely
necessary I'll use medication?Is your individual process?
Dr. Hannah (07:46):
Absolutely. It's exactly that. And I want to give
conventional medicine credit forthat because there is such a
thing in geriatrics aspolypharmacy. So when I was
working in an evidence basedpractice unit in my hospital we
actually tried to get patientsoff of their medication. We
tried to half the dose if theydidn't need it.
Whatever wasn't absolutelynecessary we tried to get them
off those medications.
Roland (08:08):
And this is a perspective that is held in the
allopathic system. Like thereare people who say these are too
many pills we're giving people.We need to do something to
reduce the load on them?
Dr. Hannah (08:18):
Right and that's what we call polypharmacy. And
so the more medications thepatient is on, the more side
effects there are and therecould be some deleterious
effects from that. For fallingfor example, there are many
medications if you combine themtogether increase your risk of
falling. So we'd want todecrease or minimize or
consolidate those kinds ofmedications.
Roland (08:38):
Unfortunately however you want to look at it it's a
huge industry and for profitindustries need to sell things
to sustain themselves. So thereis this push for people of a
certain age to think about themedications that they might need
given the circumstances. LikeI've flipped to I don't own a TV
but if I'm ever somewhere if youwatch commercials the quantity
(09:00):
of ads for medications and myfavorite part is side effects
might include and there's like27 lines of things and some of
them are like spontaneousdiarrhea. Was like that sounds
terrible but that's kind ofwhere we are. The average person
is indoctrinated to think ofprimary care, oh something's
going on with me, I need amedication.
They start the medication, itdoesn't resolve their issues.
(09:23):
Side effects may happen. Theydon't feel any better and I
think they sometimes getdisenchanted and feel stuck in
the system.
Dr. Hannah (09:28):
And not only that for those side effects,
sometimes you'll need anothermedication to manage those side
effects so you'll keep addingmore and more medications.
Roland (09:34):
Like a snowball rolling down a hill.
Dr. Hannah (09:36):
It is. So in my practice and some conventional
doctors do, we look at all themedications. My practice is more
so supplements because I'mworking more in prevention. I
have my patients bring all theirsupplements and all their
medications in because what Ialso do if they're on
medications I cross check theirmedications with the interaction
(09:56):
checker. So I want to see, Okay,if you have to take this
medication, if you must be on itfor a statin for example, it
depletes CoQ10.
I want to make sure they'regoing to be on CoQ10. So what
does it deplete and how can Isupport it if you must be on it?
Metformin classic medication fordiabetes depletes B12 so if you
must be on it let's make surethat we are repleting the
(10:17):
nutrients that it depletes inyour body.
Roland (10:19):
And that's not common knowledge to the average person
or even the average healthcareprovider is it?
Dr. Hannah (10:25):
You know I feel like as a nurse when I worked in a
hospital I had to know mymedications really, really well.
So it was my job in the hospitalwhen I gave a patient a new
medication to go over the sideeffects. After doing that so
many times and also in myschooling we learned to look at
what are the side effects foreach medication. I feel like
(10:47):
I've learned the pharmaceuticalpart pretty well.
Roland (10:50):
That's so wise though. It's not just what the side
effect is, it's what is going tobe depleted in your body that's
vital for normal function.
Dr. Hannah (10:58):
I will say that the repletion is not a common
practice.
Roland (11:02):
Part is what I'm kind of because getting I think anyone
who's listening, that's a reallygood if you are on a medication
a simple strategy is figure outwhat might help offset the long
term negative effects of justbeing depleted in certain
vitamins and minerals.
Dr. Hannah (11:14):
Absolutely.
Roland (11:15):
Okay so it sounds like you had a really, a baptism by
fire getting thrown into theenvironment for lack of better
description and then slowly yousaw the inefficiencies and the
shortcomings of a system. Whatwas the thing that made you take
your first step into going Iwant something else because I
don't like the word alternativehealth. To me it's health or
(11:37):
there's illness. We've talkedabout illness care so health
management is that outside ofthe use of pharmaceuticals but
what was the first step youtook?
Dr. Hannah (11:45):
There's a lot of misnomers in conventional
medicine. Honestly, so mydaughter was the first step. The
second step was actually myhusband.
Roland (11:56):
Okay, so it's really like close
Dr. Hannah (11:58):
Yeah, to home family now it's stuff for I said, Okay,
this is interesting. This is anew way of doing things. Then
I'm starting to think, I'mstarting to consider. But when
it hit even closer to home to myhusband that's what really
shifted me completely. So at 30years old my husband got sepsis.
Do you know what sepsis is?
Roland (12:15):
I do know what sepsis. That's terrifying.
Dr. Hannah (12:16):
Yeah. So it can be a full body infection precipitated
by something. So we didn't knowyet. So we had our first
daughter and I was pregnant withour son and my husband woke up
in the middle of the nightsaying very nonsensical things.
He was moving his hands in theair and I thought, What is going
on?
And then I touched him and hewas burning up. And I said, Oh
(12:38):
my God, he's got a fever. I gotto get him to the hospital right
now. And this is what you fearin the hospital is when
somebody's septic. It's anemergency.
Have to be
Roland (12:50):
IV infusion of antibiotics, all that kind
Dr. Hannah (12:52):
of stuff. I mean you got to take care of it right
now. So I didn't care if I waspregnant with our second child.
I put him on my shoulder. Didn'teven know how I did it.
Put him in the car.
Roland (13:00):
Super mom mode. Just get after it.
Dr. Hannah (13:02):
Like you don't even know how you got there. I got
there and I walk into thehospital. I said he's septic.
Check his lactic acid and admithim right away to my unit. So
that's exactly what happened.
I was right he was septic. Hewas admitted to my unit and what
we do in the hospital ifsomebody has a virus which is
what he did he had three viruseswe do symptom care. Symptom
(13:24):
management. Supportive care iswhat we call it. So you just
give the patient fluids.
You give them stuff to make themcomfortable. There's no
antibiotics for a virus. So whathappened was he had three
childhood viruses from ourdaughter likely because she was
in a daycare and it took overhis body. Why did it take over
his body? How did this take overa 30 year old body?
(13:46):
I'll tell you how and this isthe mainstay of my practice by
the way. Stress. Not eatingwell. Not exercising.
Overworking.
You know running two companies.Being a new dad. I mean this is
a recipe for immune systemsuppression and dysfunction.
Roland (14:02):
But it also sounds like commonplace in 2026. Like that's
not an unusual circumstance fora young person to be in.
Dr. Hannah (14:10):
Right. This was a point where it was deadly for my
husband. I mean he could havedied from this. That could have
been it for him. So his businesspartner mentioned something I've
never heard before which isozone therapy.
So he said ozone therapy and youknow being the person that I am
I looked it up, I put it inGoogle, the first thing that it
(14:32):
says is it's a toxic gas thatcan kill you.
Roland (14:34):
Dangerous, yes. Don't do it.
Dr. Hannah (14:36):
And I looked at him and I said, Are you serious
right now? You want to kill myhusband? Absolutely not. You're
not going to do this. So myhusband got discharged, still
having fevers.
So he was stable, but he wasstill not 100% well. He had
ozone therapy done and then hewas like 50% better. And I said,
(14:57):
I kinda you know, I'm I'm askeptic. So I said, oh, he got
to rest. He didn't have to work.
He didn't have the stress of theenvironment around him. He
probably just recovered himself.And then that December I got the
flu and then his businesspartner comes to me again and he
says, Hannah, why don't you gotry ozone therapy? Well I said,
know, it's a virus, same thing.I miss the window for Tamiflu.
(15:21):
It's miserable having the flu ifyou've ever had it. So I said,
know, at this point what can beworse than this? I did ozone
therapy.
Roland (15:27):
We'll try the scary thing that I Google told me not
to
Dr. Hannah (15:31):
did it and I was 90% better and I said there's
something here. And this is thename of my practice, this is
where it started. So I startedwith ozone therapy. And then
with my patients moving forward,my patient would ask, Hey, can
you also help me with thisissue? And can you help me with
that issue?
And so then I started learningand taking classes and that's
where my functional medicinebackground kind of came into
(15:52):
fruition. And so I was lookingat the root cause of disease
now.
Roland (15:57):
Okay so what I'm hearing is you have essentially taken
your definition of primary careand you've turned it on its
head. Your primary care is notallopathic primary care. That's
the last aspect for you. Itstill has some utility but your
primary care is about addressingthe person from a holistic point
of view, correct?
Dr. Hannah (16:17):
Right. I'm just basically trying to take the
best of both worlds and put themtogether to look at the patient
holistically and help them withtheir goals. I'm a partner in
the person's health because atthe end of the day the patient
has to do the work. I'm here toprovide the guidance based on my
experience and my knowledge andbased on their goals and what
they are willing, ready and opento do. Because if I suggest
(16:38):
something that they'reabsolutely not going to do,
which unfortunately there's alot of cookie cutter recipes in
conventional medicine.
The patient you're going to tellthem to do exercise like this,
eat this and they're probablynot going to do it. It really
has to fit within them and theirschedule.
Roland (16:55):
That's fair. And even in that, in getting into the world
of functional medicine I thinkbecause there's been such an
influx of people wanting to gointo this field there have been
some cookie cutter things thatI've seen evolve from people who
are just kind of wanting to getinto it really quickly but not
necessarily understanding thenuance. How many years have you
been doing this personally?
Dr. Hannah (17:17):
Functional medicine, having my practice probably
about five or six years but Ican't discount everything that I
learned in the hospital becausethat is very applicable to what
I do. Altogether probably aboutfifteen years.
Roland (17:32):
Okay, so what does it look like if someone comes in to
see you? From the beginning ofthe process is there a detailed
health history? Is there ananalysis of behaviors? Is there
some extensive testing? Whatdoes the process actually look
like?
Dr. Hannah (17:45):
So the first process is doing a fifteen minute call
with me. First I want to see ifit's a good fit, If it's going
be a good partnership because ifthe patient has unrealistic
expectations and I can't meet,it's not going to be a good fit.
If they're not willing to reallytake health into their hands and
make the interventions and thechanges, it's probably not a
good fit. So it really has to befirst I want to get to know the
(18:08):
patient. I want to see is thisgoing to be a good partnership?
So first can we work together?That's the first step. And then
if we are going to work togetherthen it's a one hour physical
exam. When I went to nursingschool, it's the same exam that
a physician gets. It's a onehour exam and in that exam I get
(18:29):
so much information from thepatient's body.
I start you know the wheelsstart turning. I start thinking
okay now there's a circulationissue. Know maybe there's a
nervous system issue when I'mchecking the cranial nerves.
Know things start clicking.
Roland (18:42):
You start to see this mind map sort
Dr. Hannah (18:44):
start to see what I'm going to look for in
conjunction with the patient'sgoals and see where we're going
to go from there. Unfortunatelywhen you go to a primary care
visit it's a fifteen to twentyminute visit and you don't have
the time to do the one hour examthat you were trained to do in
school. So you're limited. Andwhen I worked in primary care,
(19:05):
you have to see 20 to 30patients in a day, fifteen to
twenty minute visits. I don'tknow anybody's name.
I barely felt like I could trulylisten to the patient and have
the time to really go throughwhat's going on before I have to
move on to the next person. Andat the end of the day, I don't
feel like I did my true duediligence as a practitioner to
truly help that patient. And Ifelt like a bad practitioner,
(19:28):
and that's why I shifted to thismodel. And then I also ask for a
very, very detailed intake. Iwant to know the past medical
history, what medications,supplements they're on.
I want to know how's the stress.I want to know if it's a female.
I want to know theirreproductive history. I want to
know about hydration. Somepeople just don't drink enough
(19:48):
water.
What kind of water are youdrinking? How often are you
drinking? This is so basic andimportant. And so I really take
that detailed history and we goover that in that first visit as
well. And then after that it'sthe individualized plan for the
patient.
It's a holistic plan addressingone, what are the patient's
goals because I want to helpthem with their goals and what I
(20:11):
think is going to help them intheir direction.
Roland (20:14):
I think it's so wonderful for people to hear
that process because when you'rein the health industry as you
and I are, we take a lot forgranted in terms of the
assumption of what we eitheralready know or the things that
we don't think about very much.But if you put yourself in the
position of someone who'sstruggling who's never explored
health outside going to a doctoror hospital that what you just
(20:35):
said is really the fundamentalsof what has to be known. So why
I think this is important andwhy I want to bring this up is
if anyone's listening to thisget to know your details and
your stories about all thesethings because even just taking
what you've said and crossexamining your own life and
existence it gives you morepower with knowledge of being
self aware and that aspect ofself awareness I think can bring
(20:57):
you to that next step offiguring out what you may need
in terms of where your journeyis taking you.
Dr. Hannah (21:02):
Yeah absolutely. And everybody is so different.
What's their family history?What's your genetic makeup? What
blueprint were you given?
And that also helps me directthings in a more specific and
individualized way as well.
Roland (21:15):
Do you do a lot of individual testing like that
genetic testing, nutritionalanalysis, urine analysis, stool?
Do you get into the functionaltesting side of things?
Dr. Hannah (21:24):
Absolutely. So again we go back to the basics which
is the physical exam which iswhere it should start and vitals
are vital. The vital signsalready tells me if there's a
severe problem right up front.So I do that in the beginning of
the exam. And then after usuallyit's going to be pretty
comprehensive blood work.
And then again it's going to bevery specific. If somebody is
(21:45):
suffering with hormonal symptomsI'm going to think of hormonal
testing. If I see that they'revery stressed I'm going think of
adrenal testing. If they havegut health issues then I'm going
to think of a gut health test.So it just really depends on the
person and what's going on withthem.
If they're fine, there are somepeople who are just like
magically they come in with nosymptoms, very rare. I just want
to be healthy and well. I wantto live forever. Then I can
(22:08):
start with a different kind ofplan. That's more of a health
optimization plan.
So that's a whole differentperspective. But usually people
come to see me because thetraditional medical system has
failed them. They're not feelingwell. They've been suffering
with chronic issues their wholelife and nobody can figure out
what it is. They've gone frompractitioner to practitioner.
And a lot of times, believe itor not, it's actually just
(22:31):
listening to the patient, Justhearing the story and I can kind
of guess what basically happenedor what might be the issue. When
it started? Do you even have thechance to ask, You have this
chronic issue. When did itstarted? When did it start?
What happened right before that?Did you have any kind of trauma?
Any kind of event that happenedbefore? What precipitated what
(22:54):
happened? So even just askingthose simple questions a lot of
times will give me the answers.
Roland (22:59):
Why do you think so many people are struggling right now
with their health? Because thatscenario gone from patient or
practitioner to practitionercan't find help anywhere that's
not an uncommon story nowadays.I can't tell you how many times
I've heard that story in thelast few years and I think it's
getting more common. What do youthink is happening with society
from a health or an illnessperspective?
Dr. Hannah (23:21):
That's a loaded question.
Roland (23:23):
I want your opinion. You don't know everything but I'd
like to know I your opinion as athink
Dr. Hannah (23:27):
we're not looking at the right things. So we're not
doing the right testing. Andagain, not by the conventional
practitioner's fault. They don'tknow. We don't have a gut health
test in conventional medicine.
Maybe if you go to a GI doctor,they can do certain GI tests.
Even those sometimes will comeback normal.
Roland (23:45):
Usually it's just like a parasite analysis or something
similar.
Dr. Hannah (23:47):
Yeah, if that's negative and the patient still
has the symptoms, then where doyou go from there? Then So we
get to, Okay, well it's probablynot a medical issue, it's
probably a mental health issue.So a lot of patients
unfortunately get gaslit and getshunted to a psychiatrist or a
(24:08):
psychologist and again we arebeing put medication. I think
that the testing that I do isreally important to look at the
patient holistically. Basicblood testing will give me a lot
of answers.
I can just kind of see theblueprint from there. And
genetic testing too which wedon't do unless again in
(24:28):
conventional medicine if there'san issue then we'll go to a
geneticist and look at somethingdeeply. If you have a strong
history of an aggressive cancerthen we'll go and do that kind
of test or give you to thatspecialist to do that kind of
test. The other thing you askedof why people are suffering so
much so that's from the medicalperspective how you search for
the answers like a detective.
Roland (24:50):
I like that delineation there, yeah.
Dr. Hannah (24:52):
Is the environmental burden. So in The United States
we are unfortunately the sickestpopulation in the world. Why?
And I'm guessing that it'sprobably from our environmental
burden from the processed foodsto the sedentary lifestyle to
the high stress to the lack ofexercise. I mean, if you had a
(25:12):
hard day, what are we going todo?
Us buddies are going to go get adrink. Instead of going to get a
drink, which is not thehealthiest choice, why don't we
go get a massage? Why don't wego meditate in the forest?
Roland (25:25):
See a group of guys just walking in the park holding
hands sitting in a meditationcircle.
Dr. Hannah (25:29):
You know what I mean? It's just we've normalized
that kind of culture here. So ifyou're having a hard day, we're
going smoke some marijuana, gotake a cigarette or make a non
healthy choice. So I feel likealso even sleep. Sleep is for
the week.
These are things that you'vekind of heard. Power your sleep.
(25:53):
Work nonstop. You got to keeptrucking until you get to the
top of the ladder. So I reallyfeel like it's just our culture
and our environment that has setus up to be this way.
Roland (26:05):
Yeah I think you can encompass it with saying our
relationship with reality isreally wired to be unhealthy
from the expectation side ofthings because when you're
talking about the gaslightingaspect of things for people I've
got a lot of these in the past,what I call them like medical
failures. Why I say failure isthere's something that someone
couldn't figure out. So theyjust went, it's in your head or,
(26:28):
ah, it's not a thing. And Iwanted to ask because you take
so much time to work to get toknow the person and work with
them and understand them. Howmuch do you feel the physical
aspects of their suffering arebeing driven by psycho
emotional, mental, or even likeenergetic spiritual influences?
Cause I know that there's anelement of that that you do
(26:48):
consider. Correct?
Dr. Hannah (26:49):
So it's not separate from each other. I do believe
the path to longevity becausethat's what is kind of my
passion is mind body spirit. Soyou can't deny connected to the
body and the body is connectedto the mind and there's
communication between the mindand the body. So that is
science. And I believe that thespiritual aspect comes in too.
(27:13):
What kind of trauma did theperson go through in their life?
So I don't work with thoseaspects specifically, meaning I
don't do those therapies, but Iwill refer as long as the
patient is open to do thosetherapies because at the end of
the day, I'm trying to help thepatient and I'm trying to find
out what is the best thing forthem. So something like EMDR for
example which is actuallycovered by insurance for most
(27:36):
insurances is a trauma therapythat can help a patient. Some
patients believe in Reiki orenergy so maybe that's going to
be the right therapy for thepatient. Maybe hypnotherapy,
maybe it's somethingsubconscious that is bothering
the patient.
Every time they look at a light,all of a sudden they get
anxious. That could go back tochildhood where somebody woke
them up flashing a light intheir eye and you never have any
(27:57):
idea that looking at a light allof a sudden that's the trauma
that was caused at five yearsold. You cannot consciously know
that. That goes back to thesubconscious. So again, I'm
really open to working withother practitioners.
I do a lot of referrals becauseI'm mainly working on the
physical body, but I can't denythose other aspects because I've
seen my patients improve and getbetter. I've seen it in their
(28:18):
blood markers.
Roland (28:19):
I was going to ask you Do you see physiologic change
from someone addressing nonphysical things in their
reality? And if so, you sharesome examples of what shifted?
Dr. Hannah (28:28):
Absolutely. So in the adrenal test, cortisol, I
mean I've seen some shifts inusing adaptogens which are
supplements. I've seen changeswhen people go through
meditation or when they use yogaor when they do some kind of
calming ritual every day. I'veseen that in the blood work.
Roland (28:47):
So
Dr. Hannah (28:49):
when we go to the root cause of disease, a lot of
root cause of disease isinflammation. I look at probably
like at least probably six toeight biomarkers of
inflammation. So inflammation iscaused by, you know, it could be
mental, it could be physical, itcould be environmental. I've
(29:09):
seen those numbers come down aswell which comes down to the
physical level.
Roland (29:13):
Interesting and anytime inflammation is high like
chronically that leads todegeneration and if people can
get a hold of that they canreally start to reverse
themselves out of like badautoimmune flare ups or various
pain syndromes, neurologicalchallenges, that the quality of
life can just take off as aresult of that.
Dr. Hannah (29:30):
Absolutely. And then now you're basically talking
about mitochondrial health,which is cellular health.
Roland (29:36):
Talk about that a little bit more because that's a
buzzword now. Mitochondria, it'sfunny. The thing you learn in
grade 10 biology class you tryto forget about for the entirety
of your life then because youget interested in health you see
an Instagram ad for amitochondrial support supplement
and everyone's like, Oh I wantmy mitochondria to work better.
Dr. Hannah (29:55):
Here's the key. If your cells are healthy, you're
going to be healthy. So why areour cells not healthy? And
that's a loaded question too butusually my patients are on some
kind of mitochondrial cellularsupport because over time
sometimes the cells have lostthat ability to clean themselves
up or to do its job and we haveto give it a little bit of
(30:17):
support because as you said ourbodies are designed to heal. We
just have to give it the toolsor get it in the state where
it's able to heal.
Roland (30:27):
That makes me think of something interesting. I don't
know if this is possible topinpoint but you said most of
your clients are on amitochondrial support. Are you
seeing patterns in peoplenowadays that are common things
that are showing up like thingsthat are in blood work or maybe
even conditions that arestarting to become more frequent
and shared across populations?
Dr. Hannah (30:45):
Absolutely. So the two things I see are
inflammation which as I said isa root cause of disease and
metabolic health dysfunction isa big issue. And what I do as
far as a preventativeperspective and it's such an
easy test to do is the insulinlevel. So a fasting insulin
level can tell me potentially adecade, ten years in advance
(31:08):
before pre diabetes. And by theway, for me, pre diabetes is
diabetes.
I find it a misnomer. I don'tthink we should call it pre
diabetes because it's like thestage before prediabetes so we
don't really have to worry aboutit. It's not really a
Roland (31:22):
big You're messed up but you're not that bad so I won't
deal with it just like But
Dr. Hannah (31:25):
here's the thing. Prediabetes, you're having
damage to the beta cellsalready. So if you're already
damaging the organ, that'sdisease in my mind. So why would
we call it pre diabetes?
Roland (31:35):
And that's pancreatic damage just to be specific, Yes.
Okay.
Dr. Hannah (31:38):
Sorry, it got a little technical.
Roland (31:39):
It's excitement, I feel it.
Dr. Hannah (31:42):
So I do an insulin test and sometimes I do an
insulin panel. It's specialbiomarker panel to just kind of
see because you can have insulinresistance and pre diabetes at
the same time, but usually it'sgoing to start before we get to
pre diabetes. So again, I'mtrying to prevent disease or
(32:03):
catch it early on where it'smuch more it's easier to reverse
when you catch it earlier. Youcan still potentially reverse it
you know once you're in prediabetes diabetes but it's going
to take a lot more work onceyou've gotten to that point.
Roland (32:15):
Got it. Okay so just to kind of recap because we've gone
down some incredible avenues ofdiscussion here. It sounds like
at least from my perspective theprimary care thing is really
about crisis management and justdealing with things in a
reactive way as quickly aspossible and processing as many
people through the system as youpossibly can. What you've moved
(32:36):
to is you've taken the best ofthat model because the one thing
I'll give the allopathic side ofthings their diagnostics and
their understanding ofmechanisms is sound, is robust.
Their treatment is notnecessarily the best but they're
the ones who can diagnose andyou can't work off of a
diagnosis if you can't diagnoseright so there's utility there.
(32:56):
But it sounds like yourevolution has been really about
going deep with the person,getting to know the entirety of
the landscape and then once youhave a pattern of what's going
on you can subcategorize andtest like take little samples
around the swimming pool so tospeak of that person's reality
and start to formulate apicture. And that picture can
(33:19):
then help you build a plan tohelp that person on an
individual basis because no twopeople are unique. Do I have it
decently?
Dr. Hannah (33:27):
Yes.
Roland (33:28):
Okay. Why aren't there more of you? Why is it that we
still have so few people whohave bridged these two worlds?
Dr. Hannah (33:39):
Like I said, I think the traditional model is going
to nurse practitioner medicalschool. So just going down that
path, that's just what you learnand that's just what you know,
and you're kind of in a tunnelvision. So unless you have maybe
something personal that happenedto you specifically or a family
member, there's not much toreally shift that trajectory. Or
unless you're working in ahospital and you have an moment
(34:00):
and then you kind of realize,Wait a second, is this kind of a
sick system? Are we morereactive instead of proactive?
So we already have the algorithmallopathically and most people
are just going to kind of gowith allopathic. And some people
are okay. They want to go totheir day to day work. They want
to come home and get theirpaycheck and they want to live
(34:22):
their lives. Some people don'tnecessarily want to go that
further mile.
I mean, already have mydoctorate degree. It wasn't very
exciting for me to go throughmore school, but I did it
because of my passion and I tookclasses that were specific that
were relevant for my practiceand for my patients. And I'm
still open by the way. A goodpractitioner is always learning
(34:44):
and always looking at what's thenext thing and what is the new
science and how do you applythat to the patient in the
practice? Because the scienceshows it takes ten years to get
evidence based practice into thehospital, into a practice.
Whereas because I work formyself, I can do that now. So if
my patient has a certain issueand I'm interested in that issue
(35:06):
to help the patient, I'm goinggo do some research. I'm going
go down the rabbit hole and seehow I can best help that
patient. And that's why everyyear I go to the A four ms
longevity conference because Iwant to learn what's the latest
and greatest. What are the newmachines?
What are the new techniques?What are the new analysis? What
are the new tools? What are thenew supplements that are out
there? So science is alwaysgrowing and changing but it's
(35:29):
also an art.
It's really an art and a scienceand it's put together.
Roland (35:32):
Perfectly said. I couldn't agree more. The science
is the kind of what you do andhow but the art is how do you
actually gather it and give itshape and then apply it to the
individual. I think the hardestthing about working with
patients is not how well versedyou are in the different
scientific disciplines. It's canyou connect with this person?
(35:53):
Can you find relation with themin a way that they trust you,
they're open and they're goingto be willing to do what it is
you say and you can monitortheir progress along the way and
justifiably make changes ratherthan going ah it's been about a
year since I've seen you. Yeahlooks about right. Okay. See you
later. See you next year.
There's something about what yousaid that has been this wonder
(36:16):
in my head and I agree with you.Some people once they've
invested so much time and money,it's not inexpensive in America
to get a doctorate degree or tobecome a, you know, it's a half
$1,000,000 of school in manyyears of your life. I understand
why someone wouldn't want to go,well, everything I've just done,
I'm going to throw out and I'mgoing to go this way. But what
do you think it's going to takefor people to not have to have
(36:38):
such a painful personalexperience, make them more
interested in things beyond thescope of where they're looking.
If you live in a myopic littleworld then you're like a horse
with the blinders on movingthrough life not necessarily
ever looking to the left orlooking to the right.
I'm so interested in seeing whatthe catalyst can be to help
unify health and at least mylifetime or the lifetime of the
(37:01):
next generation. What do youthink it's going to take for
medicine to move forwards andbecome more fluid to maybe adopt
more of a similar model that youhave currently?
Dr. Hannah (37:10):
It's going to come from the demand of the people.
So I think it's alreadyshifting. I think after COVID
happened, I mean our countrywent through mass trauma. I mean
some people and some of mypatients started with me this
way. They were severely sickwith COVID and they basically
said, Help me stay healthy.
I never want to be sick likethis again. Or the fear of going
(37:31):
to the hospital and maybe notmaking it out. People started to
reevaluate how they started tothink about their own health and
their family's health andlooking more at a preventative
aspect as how do I stay healthy?How do I not get sick? And so I
think it's already shifting.
The second aspect of it is thesocial media. So there's a lot
(37:51):
of education out there. There'sa lot of practitioners like
myself who have Instagram pageswho are educating patients. Mean
perimenopause is now most peopleknow what that means from all
the mass education. I mean, evenOprah started talking about it
on her show.
And celebrities like DrewBarrymore and other people
(38:12):
started opening other people'seyes and talking about their own
personal experience. So I thinkthat now that people start
talking about it more, thatthere's a greater knowledge and
a greater desire for these kindsof things. I mean, I see online
all the time, Do you know afunctional medicine provider? Or
even somebody is literallyasking, Can they help me with
the root cause of my issue?Which is literally what
(38:34):
functional medicine is.
There are people who are lookingfor a more holistic, natural way
to manage their health. They'relooking for it. It's starting to
become a demand.
Roland (38:44):
I think that's a very wise perspective and it's what I
thought too. It's going to be agroup of people going into the
office of a practitionerchallenging them on I know this
thing I want to know the answerto this question and the
practitioner going Shit I don'tknow what that even is let alone
what to answer this person. AndI could see it being something
(39:05):
that may rub some people thewrong way but it's a call to
action because it's ridiculousto say but health has become
vogue. It's become trendy andthe reason I say it's ridiculous
is that it has to do that forpeople to catch on because to me
health is the most valuableresource we have. Time's number
one.
Health is number two in myworld. You can regain your
(39:25):
health but you can never gettime back but if you use your
time wisely you can maintainyour health.
Dr. Hannah (39:30):
Also if you don't have your health you don't have
time right?
Roland (39:33):
Not much it's true.
Dr. Hannah (39:34):
So in my opinion health comes first because if
you don't have your health youdon't have anything. You can't
be there for your family. Youcan't operate. You cannot work.
You might even lose your time ifyou keep operating at a certain
way unless you make some shifts.
In my opinion health is numberone.
Roland (39:51):
I can't debate that. That's a nice frame. I like
that. What are you excited aboutfor the future in terms of
healthcare? Where do you seethings going?
What do you think is coming?
Dr. Hannah (40:03):
So I see in our administration I don't want to
get too political here but Ifeel like people are starting to
open their eyes. So for example,the processed food industry
shifting to not having food dyesanymore because people are
becoming more aware. Evaluatingthe evidence of the current
(40:25):
science of why we structurethings and have the algorithm
that we do I think is abeautiful thing to just kind of
see has the way we have donethings before, is it still
working? Is it going to continueto work? So just evaluating what
we currently do I think is goingto be a great shift.
But again, I think it's reallygoing to come from the system
(40:49):
perspective. I can do as much asI can as a solo practitioner to
help a certain population and mypatients, but it's got to come
from the system. The schoolinghas to change. The direction has
to change. Maybe even insurancecoverage needs to change on how
they evaluate like a physicalexam for example.
(41:11):
Maybe they'll start coveringlike a one hour exam instead of
a fifteen to twenty minute exambecause a specialist gets more
than that and they're looking atone system. Your GI doctor, your
gastroenterologist is justlooking at your stomach and they
get more time than a primarycare doctor who is trying to
look at all of you and all ofyour systems together.
Roland (41:30):
That statement which you just made about the specialist
being mono focused I thinkthat's something that needs to
dissolve as time goes on becauseI've had my own family
challenges seeing you know apsychologist, a neurologist and
a gerontologist all treating afamily member. None of them talk
to each other. One prescribes amedication that interacts
(41:52):
negatively with the other so astime goes on I hope the concept
of holistic becomes somethingthat every single practitioner
thinks about because everythingaffects everything.
Dr. Hannah (42:04):
Absolutely. You have to have somebody who has air
traffic control in the middle.I'll tell you when I worked in
the hospital as a nurse I wasair traffic control. So for my
patient we had differentspecialties giving them
medications and so I had to knowif one medication from the
cardiologist is going tointeract with the medication for
(42:25):
the nephrologist and I had tolet them know these two
medications interact which onedo you want to give the patient?
Roland (42:32):
That's a ton of responsibility.
Dr. Hannah (42:33):
It is a ton of responsibility but I am the one
administering the medication soI have to be aware of what those
medications can do to thepatient.
Roland (42:42):
You would think the doctor would have to know that
though because they're theprescribing physician.
Dr. Hannah (42:47):
But they don't know what the other one is
prescribing.
Roland (42:49):
That's the fault of the system right there.
Dr. Hannah (42:51):
And again, I'm sure maybe I haven't been in a
hospital in a while, so I'mhoping that now with technology
that you have the interactionchecker where it can see or it
can flag you and maybe thepharmacist is going to take a
look and change. This is againwhen I was there. So again
things are shifting andchanging. Our technology is
changing. We have AI now.
(43:11):
So I mean we are moving in atotally different direction.
Roland (43:15):
That's wild. I'm going to take away from this that the
evidence based medicine model isten years in the past today.
Everything we're doing on agrowth scale, a population or
societal scale is actually tenyears out of date according to
what is being elucidated. Ithink that's a very powerful
statement.
Dr. Hannah (43:34):
You're correct.
Roland (43:35):
Doctor. We've weaved a very wonderful tapestry of
understanding health and allthings related to it. You are
based in Las Vegas. What is thename of your practice and what
is it that you want to sharewith people? Where can they find
out more about you?
I want you to share a little bitabout yourself before we sign
off here.
Dr. Hannah (43:53):
So I feel like I've shared enough about myself. I've
shared my personal story. So ifyou want to get in touch with
me, my company's name is Doctor.Ozone and we have a physical
practice here. We also do seepatients remotely in Los Angeles
as well in California.
So we do have a remote basedpractice there and it's
(44:14):
doctorozone.com.
Roland (44:16):
And
Dr. Hannah (44:17):
if you have somewhere I can also give you
the links. If you want to followme I also like to post a lot of
just general health information.If I feel like something is
really applicable to what I do Iwant people to know about it
because it's not just in myoffice. I only have a certain
amount of time to talk about thepatient's specific issues and
(44:39):
what they're kind of lookingfor. But there's a lot of
general things that I feel likepeople should know.
Like the insulin level forexample. That's something that
you can ask your doctor to addto your panel that should be
uncovered I hope should becovered by insurance. And start
being preventative about yourhealth.
Roland (44:55):
Yeah, personal responsibility is something that
I think slowly but surelyeveryone's going to learn that
they need to take more onbecause no one's coming to save
you. There are only resourcesout there once you decide to
want to take responsibility foryourself.
Dr. Hannah (45:09):
Absolutely. At the end of the day you're the one
who's gonna have to make thechanges. Nobody should care
about you more than you.
Roland (45:15):
100%. Best investment is in yourself.
Dr. Hannah (45:18):
Yes.
Roland (45:19):
Thank you so much for sharing everything today. This
has been a wonderfulconversation.
Dr. Hannah (45:23):
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Roland (45:24):
All right and everyone I hope you really resonated with
this. Please do like, share,subscribe. If you do feel this
will resonate with someoneplease send it to them. So if
they want to seek out more abouthow to help themselves in their
own journey they can. We'll seeyou next time.
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