October 22, 2024 • 58 mins
Erica Newbert Campbell, a breast cancer survivor and author of "The Mastectomy I Always Wanted," joins us to share her powerful personal journey. Through her candid storytelling, Erica illuminates the difficult decisions she faced following her diagnosis, including the choice of undergoing breast reconstruction with implants. Her narrative does more than recount her journey; it opens a dialogue about the importance of normalizing conversations around breast cancer and the emotional complexities that accompany treatment options.
From the moment of receiving her diagnosis, Erica takes us through the emotional upheaval and practical challenges that follow. She reflects on the fear, anxiety, and the trust she placed in her medical team as she navigated through options between a lumpectomy and mastectomy. Erica also highlights the importance of feeling empowered by choice, especially when the path is fraught with daunting decisions concerning identity and beauty. Her inspiration draws connections to public figures like Angelina Jolie, emphasizing the transformative power of rewriting personal narratives.
Through stories of connection and hope, Erica shares the motivation behind her book, which started as an unexpected journey of solidarity and support. The unique cover design of her memoir symbolizes the deep genetic and personal connections shared with her mother and countless others on a similar journey. Erica's guiding principles—never give up, you are not alone, and trust the process—are glimmers of resilience. Join us for a conversation filled with humor, authenticity, and the powerful reminder that storytelling can inspire and empower us to face life's challenges with confidence and grace.
Links and resources:
- Get Erica’s book on Amazon: “The Mastectomy I Always Wanted”
- Check out Erica’s website: https://www.ericanewbertcampbell.com
- Connect with Erica on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erica.n.campbell/
Please help us be heard and raise awareness:
- Subscribe to the show
- Rate and review
- Share with your friends
Let's connect!
Join the Empowered Explant Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/empoweredexplant
Connect with Darnah on Instagram: @darnahmercieca
Interviews and sponsorships email: podcast@empoweredexplant.com
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/ilya-kuznetsov/anticipation
Disclaimer: This podcast does not constitute medical or mental health advice. Darnah is not a medical practitioner. She shares from personal experience, research, and conversations with other people. If you are experiencing symptoms, pain, post-surgery complications, or mental health concerns, please seek care from your medical provider or surgeon.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Darnah Mercieca (00:02):
This is Empowered Explant the podcast
helping women ditch their breastimplants with confidence.
I'm Darnah Mercieca boardcertified health and wellness
coach and explant warrior.
Now, all women in our communityare survivors survivors of the
dangers of breast implants,survivors of breast implant
(00:23):
illness but it's also importantto remember that many in our
community are survivors ofbreast cancer, and while a lot
of us chose to get breastimplants because we weren't
happy with our natural breasts,many women are forced into that
consideration because theirnatural breasts are being taken
(00:46):
from them.
Today, our guest is EricaNewbert Campbell.
She's a breast cancer survivor,director of the Pinky Swear
Foundation, helping children andtheir families through their
cancer diagnosis and treatment,and she just published her
memoir this week called theMastectomy I Always Wanted.
(01:08):
So today we're going to diveinto.
There's a lot behind that booktitle, by the way, a lot, and
we're going to talk about that.
Erica really opens up in ourconversation about her journey,
the decisions that she was facedwith, including her decision to
reconstruct with breastimplants, and what that journey
looked like for her and what itlooks like today Wow Hi.
Erica Newbert Campbell (01:31):
Erica Hi Darna, how are you?
Darnah Mercieca (01:34):
I'm fantastic, I'm very excited to be speaking
to you, and happy birthday week.
Erica Newbert Campbell (01:42):
Thank you.
Thank you, it has certainlybeen a big week, and not just my
birthday.
Darnah Mercieca (01:47):
I know the birthday and your book launched
this week.
That is so cool.
Your book launched on yourbirthday, right?
Yes, so basically there weretwo things that got birthed that
day.
Congratulations on your booklaunch.
How do you feel?
I?
Erica Newbert Campbell (02:00):
feel like someone who just gave birth
to something.
So I'm exhausted, I'm thrilled,I can't wait to see where this
book goes.
The intention is that itbecomes something bigger than
myself, and so I feel reallyexcited about it.
Darnah Mercieca (02:14):
Oh, that's amazing.
So the mastectomy I alwayswanted and I'm really excited to
talk more with you about thattitle later.
We'll definitely talk moreabout the purpose of your book
later on, but as I was readingit, as I bought it on launch day
and as I was reading it, it'slike a super personal behind the
(02:39):
curtains of your journey and,oh my gosh, it's personal like
personal notes, photos ofeverything, um, and basically
what you went through every stepof the way.
So it's just incredible.
I just want to like commend youfor your bravery for putting
that out there in book formavailable globally.
(03:01):
I mean, your boobs are now outthere yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (03:07):
I mean, I've definitely had a few
moments where I've been like isthis, is this what I want to do?
But you know, the intention isto make it normal, to normalize
that conversation, and you know,and you know, I know we'll talk
about normalize any choice thata woman makes, right, because
(03:30):
the more that we can talk aboutthese things that are awkward
and are a little bit over,perhaps over the edge, the more
we can then open up newdialogues and not make it so
strange and so awkward, right.
I mean I feel like even 20 yearsago, just the words cancer or
breast cancer was like whisperedin you know, in quiet corners,
(03:53):
and you know.
I just think it's time to talkabout these things and that's
why I love that you're talkingabout these things and in terms
of you know what is the value ofyou know of implants and
explants and things like that,yeah, I mean, at the end of the
day, know what is the value ofyou know of implants and
explants and things like that.
Darnah Mercieca (04:05):
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day too, like
just by everyone feeling morecomfortable to have the
conversations.
That's how people become moreaware of their choices.
That's how people become moreinformed, because now you're
able, you feel comfortable goingand having conversations with
different people about theirexperiences.
You feel more comfortablelearning about the different
(04:27):
terminologies and now you canactually go and have more
informed conversations with yoursurgeons and all of those
things to really inform yourdecisions.
But yeah, we'll definitely diveinto that a lot more and talk
about your decisions.
But I'd like to start kind ofgetting some of the backstory
(04:49):
and I'd love to, if you feelcomfortable which I'm sure you
do, because you just wrote awhole book about it talk about
your cancer and your experienceand talk about you know when you
found out you had breast cancerand what that diagnosis looked
like for you.
Erica Newbert Campbell (05:07):
It all began actually probably now 25
years ago, when my mother wasdiagnosed with breast cancer and
she had an early stage cancerthat all her physicians were
like this is easy to cure, youshouldn't worry.
And ultimately she relapsedfour times.
All her physicians were likethis is easy to cure, you
shouldn't worry.
And ultimately she relapsedfour times and over four years.
(05:31):
It was an incredibly wildroller coaster and it took her
life, and so breast cancer wasalways part of my worry.
It was always something I wouldthink about in the back of my
mind, and I started at arelatively early age.
(05:55):
You know, my mom died when Iwas 29.
And I immediately began to tryand advocate for myself for
mammograms and early screeningand Raka gene testing, and all
the time I was told I was tooyoung, wow, and I really had to
fight pretty hard to get thatearly screenings.
And thank God I did, because,um, you know it was, I had dense
(06:17):
breasts, I had what they callcalcifications, which are like
kind of warning signs thatbreast cancer could be in your
future, and all those thingswere tracked over time.
So I I always kind of joke thatI had scansiety for years,
which is the, which is theanxiety that comes before,
(06:37):
during and after a scan right,because you have to wait.
And I often got those callbacksright Like the phone call you
never want, which is like, hey,we did your mammogram last week,
we think we see something, canyou come back for another screen
?
So, whether it was anotherultrasound, another MRI, I had
(06:58):
those for years.
So my, my scansiety was prettyhigh.
And then, um, the and of courseyou know, there was the one time
where I got the call back thatsaid we want you to come back
for a biopsy.
I was like, ooh, that's nextlevel, right, like it had always
(07:19):
been just come back for theultrasound, just come back for a
little bit more.
And I was like, okay, okay, butto be honest, darn it, after
even all of those years, I waslike, nope, this is just
scanxiety, it'll be fine.
And that was the one time.
So that's the call I eventuallygot was after that biopsy.
I got the call where it startedoff Friday afternoon four
(07:41):
o'clock, not a great time it wasare you sitting down and are
you alone?
Was what the what the nurse,practitioner, practitioner said
when I answered the phone.
And then you know, you knowthat's when you pick up your pen
and you can't even like thinkabout anything because you, you
know what's coming, but you'restill waiting for those words,
(08:03):
were you?
That's how I got the news.
I was yeah, yeah.
Darnah Mercieca (08:09):
Are you glad that you were alone in that
moment?
Erica Newbert Campbell (08:11):
Great question.
Yes, because I was able I mean,to be honest, you know I did
quote, take notes and I justwrote scraps of words on a piece
of paper.
But as soon as I hung up, I wasable to literally put my hands
in my head and cry, and thatprivacy of that moment was
(08:32):
probably something that I couldat least like, get it out, get
my thoughts together.
And then my next phone call.
I had to pick up the phone andcall my husband and tell him
which was in broken English, tobe honest because you start to
say the words and you just can'tfinish them.
Darnah Mercieca (08:47):
Yeah, wow, I mean I've only had the scansiety
once.
I love that word, that term andI can't even imagine hearing
that next step of the biopsy.
I mean I got to ultrasound andthen got the clear, but yeah,
(09:10):
that would be terrifying.
So, wow, and how long was itbetween receiving that call and
getting your diagnosis to whenyou had the surgery and getting
your diagnosis to when you hadthe?
Erica Newbert Campbell (09:24):
surgery.
You know it was probablyquicker than most.
I want to say it was probably amonth.
Oh, wow, yeah.
But you know what comes withthat is you know.
So on Monday morning I startedto get the phone calls right.
That's when I had to meet withan oncologist, a breast surgeon,
(09:46):
a plastic surgeon, a nursepractitioner, a care coordinator
.
I mean, those meetings alone,just setting them up, probably
took a couple of weeks just todo yeah.
And you know, I did sit in thosemeetings with surgeons and was
presented with lots of options,right, options to do nothing,
(10:09):
options to have a lumpectomy,options to have a double
mastectomy, a single mastectomy.
The amount of choices they giveyou and the amount of
information comes at you, it'slike drinking from a fire hose,
right.
And so the reason I say it feltquick was because I did at
least have some.
I had always suspected this wascoming for me, so I did, had
(10:32):
already done a fair amount ofresearch.
It doesn't diminish my fear,anxiety, just complete like
bonkers feelings and emotions.
But I was pretty confident thatI wanted that mastectomy and I
said I'm also really strugglingwith the waiting, because talk
about skin anxiety, the fear andthe weight.
Oh yeah, I was like let's, onceI've, once I've decided, let's
(10:54):
do it and um even a month, feltlike 10 months you can imagine,
and was was your cancer?
Darnah Mercieca (11:02):
was it in one breast or in both?
Erica Newbert Campbell (11:10):
One breast, yeah, and so I did have.
And then you do have to get allsorts of like really heavy
testing in order to determine ifit had spread, and so that's
also part of that super anxiety,that's like anxiety squared,
whereas I had to go for acontrast MRI and they wanted to
see did it spread to otherlocations in your body, into
your breasts, into your lymphnodes?
And they never really know forsure until they do the surgery.
But um, oh God.
Darnah Mercieca (11:33):
Yeah, all of a sudden, you become a science
experiment.
Yes, yeah, yes, wow.
And so then, um, let's talkabout your decision to move
forward with a double mastectomy.
What I think you mentioned thatyou were choosing between a
mastectomy or a lumpectomy.
What did that decision looklike and how did you come to
(11:55):
yours?
Erica Newbert Campbell (11:56):
Yeah, you know the options they
present you and I'm going totell them in the most simplistic
form, which is the lumpectomy,which is just removing that, you
know, sort of the cancerouscells and the air surrounding
tissue, or the double mastectomy.
Now, obviously, the doublemastectomy is far more invasive,
yeah, and the lumpectomy, youknow, would be less challenging
(12:20):
in terms of a surgery, but italso comes with a couple of
things.
Right, it comes with thepotential for radiation or
chemotherapy afterwards.
It comes with potential for um,you know, estrogen or tamoxifen
, and and.
But ultimately, what it camedown to for me was how I was
going to think about it.
What was the mental game that Iwas willing to play the rest of
(12:43):
my life.
Darnah Mercieca (12:45):
Wow.
Erica Newbert Campbell (12:46):
Because if you have a lumpectomy, yeah,
you know you definitely have afar easier recovery and you know
far less.
You know fear about losing yourbreasts and femininity and all
of the things that.
That's why, you know, peoplechoose a lumpectomy.
But I was like wait a minute,then I will be subjected to a
(13:06):
lifetime of those moremammograms, mris, breasts,
ultrasounds that scansiety wouldbe present for me at an even
higher level for the rest of mylife.
Yeah, and you might end up rightback here again, which is what
happened to my mom, yeah, and soI was like whole man, I am
(13:28):
rewriting this story.
And it did feel reallyredemptive to have that choice
again.
I mean, a lot of times women inthese situations don't feel
like they have a lot of choicesand I was like, okay, well, I
have choice and I'm going totake a different path.
(13:49):
Right, choose the path, less,less taken.
And so I definitely chose thatdouble mastectomy, fully aware
it was going to be more painful,more invasive, more challenging
.
And then, of course, camechoices about reconstruction.
Do you do it, do you not?
And you know the choice?
I don't know.
Flow chart just continues to goon.
Darnah Mercieca (14:10):
Yes, actually, if you don't mind, if it's okay
with you, I'd love to read a fewsentences from your book.
Of course I would love that Iwas reading through your book
and this part really had animpact on me.
It like I felt it.
I mean, a lot of your book did,to be honest, but this part, I
think, given the topic of thepodcast, empowered Explant and
(14:34):
talking about breast implantsthis had a real impact on me and
I'm sure everyone listeningwill resonate.
So you say in your book.
I also questioned my decisionsabout the next step.
My current pain was directlyrelated to my choice to insert
implants under my chest muscle.
(14:55):
I started to like beingslightly flat chested.
I looked thinner from theimmediate loss of a few pounds
of flesh.
With this new lightness, Iwondered if I'd made the wrong
decision to pursue implants andreconstruction.
What I saw in the mirrorstarted to look good enough.
I love that.
By the way, the subsequentsurgery to replace the expanders
(15:18):
with permanent implants loomedlarge.
I knew breast reconstructionwas the right path, but I grew
weary of the uncertainty anddoubt.
I thought the initial surgerymeant the end of the decisions,
but I was wrong.
More choices loomed, as youwere just saying.
Now I faced the size and shapeof my new fake breasts, the type
(15:40):
of implant and the volume ofsaline.
Whenever I questioned the nextstep or the pace of my progress,
my doctor asked me to trust himand I did.
Wow, that really paints apicture beautifully written and
and I think there's just there'sso many points that stand out
(16:04):
here to me that I'd love to talkmore about.
You know, I'd love to talk toyou about what led you to the
decision to reconstruct withbreast implants and if you were
given other options or madeaware of the risks associated.
Because here you said, wheneveryou question the next step or
(16:25):
the pace of the risks associated, because here you said,
whenever you question the nextstep or the pace of your
progress, your doctor asked youto trust him and you did.
And I think where so many of usresonate, whether we've been
through cancer or not, but justwith the process of breast
implants, we trust our surgeons,right, you know they were going
(16:49):
to them with a medical concernor with an aesthetic concern,
and we trust them to really dothe best thing by us medically
and to give us all theinformation that we need.
And I can imagine at that point, like you said, you'd had so
many decisions.
I can imagine there was a lotof decision fatigue.
(17:11):
All this was happening in thespan of a month, which I can't
even believe, and it's such anemotional rollercoaster and I
can imagine that with thisdecision, you probably would
have just been like just trusthim and just go with it and
let's get this done.
Yeah, yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (17:31):
I mean thank you, by the way, for
reading that passage and I'm soglad that that landed for you
and I now I, you, actually youreading it back to me.
Put me back in that moment,cause I do remember thinking,
geez, what have I done?
When I made the choices to havethe reconstructive surgery, I
did have to make all of thosechoices at the very beginning,
(17:53):
right, and at the time I wassitting in fear, anxiety, just
like am I going to die?
Is this over?
What am I going to look like?
Am I still a woman?
What is my husband going tothink?
Like thousands of things arerunning through your head and
the doctor is saying here areyour choices.
Do you want you're going tohave reconstructive implants?
(18:14):
Right?
I'm like, uh, sure, sure, yeah,okay, you know.
I mean like you're almost notin a place to even think about
that because there's otherbigger choices about like your
life your life Right?
I was going to say, like life ordeath, right, is cancer going
to take me?
I mean, I'd seen my mom die.
I literally held her hand whenshe died and I didn't want that
(18:38):
path.
So that was all I was focusedon.
I wasn't as focused on like,what is this going to look like?
Am I still going to feel like awoman?
And of course that crossed mymind at the time.
But you know, when I wrote thatpassage, it had been several,
you know several weeks after mysurgery and I was like, wait,
wait, this is this is goodenough.
Why did I say that I wantedmore?
Darnah Mercieca (19:01):
And there's also photos.
There's photos inside your bookand so looking at those, it's
so interesting.
Know, you don't know at thatpoint.
You know, when you're firstdiagnosed and you're making all
these decisions, you have noidea what you're going to look
like after your mastectomy, oryou know no idea, but in your
photos I'm like, oh, youactually looked great.
Um, you look well proportioned,uh.
(19:24):
So yeah, I could imagine youstanding there going oh, wow,
wow, okay.
Erica Newbert Campbell (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, and it's like I'll be
honest by that point.
Could I have made a reversal ofthat choice?
Probably, I felt like the trainhad left the station and that
trust piece gosh.
You and I could do an entirepodcast on trust and the amount
of trust you have to put inessentially one human and one
human that I haven't even reallyspent time with, I don't have a
relationship with you know youthink about you, know you date
somebody for years before youget married.
But I have to make a decisionabout a surgeon in about 20
minutes and then it's on to thenext patient, right, and the
(20:07):
amount of trust you have to packinto those short periods of
time is really challenging.
How?
Darnah Mercieca (20:14):
would you describe the emotions that you
felt around losing your breasts?
Erica Newbert Campbell (20:20):
I mean it sounds so funny I just felt
like I had this complicatedrelationship with my breasts and
that I was a late bloomer andso when I was a teenager, like I
really wanted breasts, like Iwas, that I was that like
classic teenager that would likelook at them in the mirror,
like do you think they getbigger today?
You know, I was like trying tolike squeeze and like lean over
(20:43):
and look and see, like I wassuch a late bloomer and you know
it caused me some maybe I'mgoing to say anxiety, discomfort
, you know, when all of my peersat that age were, you know,
just, you know a lot moredeveloped than me.
So it was always something Ilike, desperately wanted.
And of course, you know, yes, Ijust had to be patient.
(21:04):
So in my 20s I did, I got abeautiful set of boobs, like
they eventually grew and Ilooked great and you know I'd
wear tight tops and you know,want to show my cleavage like
any 20.
Something would, um, you know,appropriately, not
inappropriately.
Darnah Mercieca (21:21):
I don't know about.
There's that porn star, Ericashe took it a a little far.
Erica Newbert Campbell (21:26):
She took it a little too far and you
know I wasn't there yet.
I was conservative but proud,you know, and you know, and then
, you know, then I got married,I had babies and, like,
breastfeeding wasn't like themost easy or the most like
(21:47):
natural experience for me.
I did it, I, I was glad, I didit, um, but then those my boobs
became like this source oftension for me, because then
they were became this thing thatcaused me fear.
Yeah, right, because that'swhen I was in the phase of all
these like hey, I think we seesomething that was, I mean, that
went on for 10 years.
I would have these scarymammograms.
(22:09):
So you know, again, it's like Ireally wanted the breasts.
Then I got them and I was happyto have them.
Then they were this like sourceof life for my children, and
then they became this source ofanxiety, fear and dread, and so
it was like this roller coasterrelationship with my boobs.
And so, yeah, when it was timeto decide to get rid of them I
(22:30):
lack of a better word Um, it was, it was maybe bittersweet, yeah
, um, because I, I was and I'llput this in quotes and I don't
mean to suspect I was glad toget rid of the fear piece of my
body.
Darnah Mercieca (22:45):
Yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (22:47):
Um, but I also was.
You know, I still wanted tolook good.
You know there's still that,not that I want to say ego, but
you know, just, the peerpressure for women is really
high.
And I remember and I have somereally beautiful memories with
my mom.
So, you know, during her, herjourney and her relapse, she
(23:08):
event, you know, she started offwith a lumpectomy.
After she relapsed, she had asingle mastectomy and so she had
one natural boob and then shechose not to have reconstructive
surgery on her remaining boob.
So you know, we would go tobreast cancer stores and we'd be
buying the you know sort ofjust things to stuff her bra.
(23:31):
She would still wear a naturalbra and we had to go shopping
for really special bathing suitsand just seeing her I mean she
literally had one of each, onereal and one absent.
In some ways, like that was astruggle for me, because she
always felt half and half, yeah,and so that's why I was like
(23:54):
let's just take both of them andit was okay.
And I talked to my husbandabout it too and he was like I
didn't marry you for your boobs.
You know, like you're a lotmore than that.
But you know those questionsand those conversations had to
happen still.
Darnah Mercieca (24:12):
Yeah, and did you have concern around that and
how it would affect yourrelationship and your intimacy?
Erica Newbert Campbell (24:21):
A hundred percent.
Darnah Mercieca (24:22):
Yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (24:22):
A hundred percent.
You know, and you know I won'tget private here, but you know
that's like we had aconversation about it.
You know we were intimate thenight before I had my surgery
Cause I was like, well, this isthe time for you to do that.
You know, like it's now ornever, and I would say now today
, fast forward.
(24:43):
You know, I did have thatreconstructive surgery and mine
look pretty real.
I mean, you can see them in thebook and um, so my husband is
totally happy with them.
Darnah Mercieca (24:56):
but it's not about him.
Erica Newbert Campbell (24:57):
You know what I mean.
I mean not disrespectfully tohim, it's about me.
Darnah Mercieca (25:01):
Well, and even even the piece that feels a
little about him is still aboutyou, because it's about how you
feel in those moments with him.
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, I, Iunderstand that and, um, the
tattooing you got looksbeautiful oh, that was like it's
.
Erica Newbert Campbell (25:20):
That's the secret nobody tells you.
I mean, once you get in thisworld.
When I learned there was tattooartists in this world where
their full-time job, fullybooked, is nipple tattoos, I was
like what it's?
Like a subculture almost.
(25:41):
And yeah, I mean for those ofyou who I'm not going to show
them on this podcast, but if youget the book, you'll see the
nipple tattoos.
The 3d looks 3d, even thoughit's completely flat.
Darnah Mercieca (25:54):
Yeah, I mean just a tattoo.
In some cases you might eventrade your nipples for a better
set of nipples.
I mean that's a hundred percent.
They're very impressive.
Erica Newbert Campbell (26:06):
They look very, very, very real.
Yeah, that's awesome, that'sawesome, yeah.
And I will say, like that's thepiece where.
And then you know this happenslike if I go to a gym and you
know there's a women's lockerroom or you, you know you're at
a swimming pool, like I don'tworry.
When I didn't have nipples, Iwas afraid that you get sort of
like no one's staring at you,right, but you get the double
(26:27):
take of like wait, what, what?
I didn't that I no longerworried about anymore.
Darnah Mercieca (26:34):
Amazing, yeah, and.
And so you went through theexpanders, you went through the
implant process, you have breastimplants.
Now what?
What was the time timeframe onthat journey?
Erica Newbert Campbell (26:50):
Yeah, that's where I felt like, ooh,
this is going real fast.
I mean, I wanna say two weeksor maybe three weeks after my
surgery and again, if you seethe photos, like I looked like a
Frankenstein and they were like, yep, you're ready to start
expanding.
It's like what I'm still like,it's fresh, it's still so fresh
(27:13):
and you know, literally likethey're in with these um
expanders, it's kind of like adeflated balloon underneath your
chest and they use a magnet tofind where the like sort of the
opening of the balloon is andthat's where they mark me, like
you know, mark me literally witha Sharpie, and then that's when
I come in with a needle andthen they'll inject saline into
(27:35):
that balloon.
Yeah, I did.
I felt like I don't know, likesomething out of Star Wars,
right, you know, it's just likethere's metal underneath my skin
and there's a magnet nowattached to my chest and a
marker um, and it was.
It was like.
It was like living my teenageyears again, because it was an
immediate reaction.
You know, you could see, um, mychest get bigger.
(27:59):
Yeah, just like, right then,and it was it was a little bit
painful.
Darnah Mercieca (28:03):
Yeah, oh, I can imagine yeah, but that took.
Erica Newbert Campbell (28:06):
So then they would, they would put a
little bit in and then let myskin and you know it was painful
.
It was like, have you ever hadbraces on your teeth?
Oh yeah, like you know, whenthey get them tightened it's
like it's like sore for threedays.
That's kind of what it feltlike, um, and so they, I would
wait a week, go back again andand to your point about choices,
like I was like well, thislooks good enough, I don't need
(28:29):
to be bigger.
But you know, again my surgeonis like I think you're going to
want to be at least your samesize.
And I was like he's like youcan go bigger.
Darnah Mercieca (28:38):
Oh, no, no, that is always the thing that
surgeons say.
I don't even understand it.
I'm like because then you startquestioning.
I mean you may not have, but ina lot of cases you start
questioning like, should I bebigger?
And I mean it definitelyhappened to me.
I went in wanting something.
I wanted a C and I came outwith a double D.
(29:02):
Like I didn't want a double D,I can't even.
I'm too small to carry a doubleD safely Well on earth.
I didn't ask for all thosepostural issues, so no, it's
actually very interesting.
May I ask what size you werenaturally versus what size you
came out with?
Yeah, I would say borderline BC.
Erica Newbert Campbell (29:24):
So I mean I would say, like
appropriately for my frame,right.
But the surgeon did say do youwant to go full C?
Right, and I was like you knowit sounds, and we joked about it
and I was like, well, again,that's what I wanted as a
teenager, right, that's what Iwanted in my twenties, yeah.
But then to your point, I waslike, oh, wait a minute, then
(29:44):
that might hurt my back musclesor you know, that's not the
thing we talked about.
He was just like, well,whatever you choose.
And then I had to really like,think about it, about exercise,
right, like just having biggerbreasts, like jogging, you know,
would be just more ups anddowns.
Darnah Mercieca (30:04):
So you actually thought about those things.
Oh yeah, for sure, gosh, I wishI did.
Maybe it was because I was 23and just not.
I was just like the big boobs,please.
Um, I was not thinking aboutany of those things, but I'm uh,
I'm glad you did so, that atleast, even though you were
going down the path of gettingimplants, you were making an
(30:27):
informed decision about the size.
That's good.
Erica Newbert Campbell (30:29):
Yeah, but I mean it was tempting
because in my teens and twenties, yeah, I would have gone like
bring on the C, bring on the D.
But you know I was diagnosed at45, right, where I had a little
bit more like I've run into,I've run into sports bra, where
you know, not always comfortable.
Darnah Mercieca (30:47):
And you'd already been through pregnancy,
knowing what those big, massive,heavy boots felt like.
So you had a little perspective.
Erica Newbert Campbell (30:56):
I had perspective, so you get to give
yourself great starter, becausein my teens and twenties I would
have gone double D, yeah, Ithink a lot of us do just go big
or go home, sure, why not?
Darnah Mercieca (31:15):
a lot of us do just go big or go home, sure,
why not?
Exactly, wow, such a journey.
Erica Newbert Campbell (31:17):
And so how long has it been now from
the time where you could saythat you were healed, you were,
you had your nipples tattooed,like you were kind of there, to
now, oh, I want to say it'sprobably been five years, okay,
yeah, I mean it's been probablysix and a half since my original
diagnosis and, uh, you know I,so I can joke about it now,
(31:41):
right, I can talk about it witha lot of hope and inspiration.
And that's my intention.
Is that to give other womenthat future, them right, the
future look of like that ispossible, like now I'm really
happy, right, I'm really.
I don't have scansiety, yeah, Idon't worry about it.
I don't have real breasts so Ican't get breast cancer, and
(32:02):
that's the mental relief of thathas transformed my life, I
would say.
Darnah Mercieca (32:10):
Is that where the title of your book comes
from?
Yeah, the Mastectomy I AlwaysWanted.
Is that?
Erica Newbert Campbell (32:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a little bit
about.
I always wanted to get rid ofthe fear, I always wanted to
rewrite the story of my mom'sjourney and I always wanted, oh
gosh, peace of mind.
Peace of mind, you know, andthe power to choose my own
(32:37):
journey, and I think that's whatI love about.
What you talk about, too, islike we all get to make our own
choices.
And you know, it's funny,somebody, somebody once
challenged me in this game oflike what do you want, right?
And they said what do you want?
You give an answer, and it'susually pretty superficial.
You know, I want to win thelottery.
You know what do you want?
(32:58):
And they keep asking it to youover and over again until you
get to the heart of what youreally want.
And so, by like the 50th time,this person asked me quite
intensely what do you want?
My answer was freedom.
Darnah Mercieca (33:14):
Yeah, when were you playing this game?
This was before your surgery.
Erica Newbert Campbell (33:18):
Yeah, this was actually in the middle
of writing my book and this isbefore the title of this book.
To be totally honest, it's evenkind of interesting.
I put this in theacknowledgement sections of the
book is where I actually do aspecial shout out to Angelina
Jolie, and I don't know ifpeople know her story because
it's quite old now.
But I want to say now, I thinkit's 10 to 15 years ago.
(33:39):
I want to say now, I think it's10 to 15 years ago, she wrote
an op-ed in the New York Timesand it was about how she chose
her own voluntary mastectomy.
Because she was diagnosed asBRCA positive, so she didn't
have cancer, she didn't have anydisease, but she had the BRCA
gene and so made a really boldchoice to have a double
(34:03):
mastectomy with reconstructivesurgery, and it was.
This was finally like for comingout, and at the time again this
is like 15 years ago it wasreally revolutionary and it was
not something that was talkedabout.
Now I think celebrities arelike, oh my gosh, I was
diagnosed with cancer, but backthen that wasn't, it wasn't a
public facing activity, and sothis was really groundbreaking
(34:26):
and in fact there's research outthere that calls it the
Angelina Jolie effect.
Oh wow, in that afterwards manypeople, especially BRCA
positive women, chose to havepreventative mastectomies and
some chose not to havereconstruction.
Some chose to havereconstruction.
It's the first time I'd everheard of it.
Darnah Mercieca (34:46):
That's so empowering.
She really empowered women totake control of their futures
and I love that.
And, by the way, angie, ifyou're listening, you got to get
a copy of this book becauseyour name is in it.
Erica Newbert Campbell (35:02):
And, like Angelina, if you're
listening, seriously call me,because you saved my life.
Darnah Mercieca (35:08):
Hold up, hold up your book.
I know you got it there.
Ah, I love your book cover somuch.
Tell me about the thumbprintsor the fingerprints on your book
, I know they make an adorableheart.
But what?
Inspired them.
Erica Newbert Campbell (35:26):
Yeah, oh gosh, I worked with the best
cover designer and that was heridea and she had read the book
and so her vision on the twothumbprints was really several
layered.
It was, you know, there's likegenetics right, your thumbprint
is your genetics.
And there's again like the BRCApositive for some folks Also
(35:47):
there's.
You know, it takes twothumbprints and that was
representative of myself and mymom.
Are two thumbprints, or myselfand another woman, right,
because we're all in thistogether.
Anybody listening, I guarantee,has their own journey, but like
there's somebody that connectswith you, right, like this Um,
and it doesn't need to be me,just I guarantee it's somebody,
(36:09):
and so, just that togethernessof um, you are not alone.
Uh, we each have our ownidentity and so we're different,
yet we are connected.
It's really the inspirationbehind that.
Darnah Mercieca (36:21):
That's deep.
I love your cover designer.
Erica Newbert Campbell (36:23):
Yeah, she's amazing.
She's amazing, emily Mahan.
Yeah.
Darnah Mercieca (36:36):
Great, I love that.
That's gorgeous.
Yeah, your book is beautiful,and so I want to talk a little
bit more about your book.
What made you decide to writeyour book?
What made you say, okay, I'mgoing to write a book, I'm going
to pour my whole journey intothis, I'm going to put it all
out into the world?
Erica Newbert Campbell (36:51):
I write a little bit about this in my
book and it's this kind of funnystory.
That was not my intention fromthe start.
I'll say that.
But when I was diagnosed, I wasworking full time as a leader
of a team and I had to announceto my team that I was diagnosed.
I was working full-time as aleader of a team and I had to
announce to my team that I wasdiagnosed and I was going to
take a few weeks off.
Afterwards there was a womanwho pulled me aside and she was
(37:13):
new to the office, new to theteam.
I didn't really know her verywell, worked for me and she's
like, hey, again, woman to woman, I've been diagnosed with the
same thing.
I had the same surgery fiveyears ago.
Do you want to see what mybreasts look like today?
And I'm like, oh my God, thatis so unprofessional, so awkward
(37:35):
, and I don't even know you.
And, yes, I totally want to seethis.
You know I was like, yes, hr,so we like go off the beaten
path in the office.
You know the bathroom that likenobody ever uses.
And then we locked the door.
(37:55):
She takes off her shirt and herbreasts look amazing, like they
look so real.
Her scars are so faint you canbarely see them.
I'm like literally like upclose, like are you sure?
Like she's like, do you see thelittle line?
Like I could barely see him.
She also had nipples removed.
She had the 3d nipple tattooand I was like those look real
(38:18):
and I literally I'm embarrassedto say I was like, can I touch
them?
She's like, yeah, sure, andlike it sure was not a actual
nipple, but it looked like itand it gave me so much hope in
that moment.
Right that's when I was in thatwaiting period, that fear like
your mind goes into really darkplaces and I was like, oh my God
(38:39):
, I feel so much better.
But I also in that moment waslike like, oh my God, I feel so
much better.
But I also in that moment waslike this is probably pretty
rare.
Like how often does likeanother woman willingly do this
on the spot, incrediblyvulnerable.
I barely knew her and I waslike I feel like I got to pay
this forward.
And again, not in that momentwas I like I'm going to write a
book, but I was like I let mejust take pictures in case I
(39:02):
want to help another woman inthe future and, sure enough, a
couple of months, a couple ofyears, people knew about my
surgery and then they would passmy name on to other women and
so I'd get these calls, textslike hey, I'm a friend of
Darna's, I'm having the samesurgery, can you give me some
advice?
And I'm texting these photos toother random strangers and and
(39:26):
calling them and giving themadvice.
And that's when I was like Ithink I'm onto something here
because people found it reallyhelpful.
Yeah, they were like oh, my God, thank you so much.
And so that really was theinspiration.
I was like okay, so I've beenable to help 10 women, you know,
over the course of a couple ofyears.
What if I turn this into a bookand what if I could get this
(39:47):
out to thousands of women?
Because, again, it wasn't aresource my surgeon.
Getting back to the trustconversation, I would say what
am I supposed to look like?
What's normal?
And you tell me to trust you,but like, do you have any photos
?
He's like no, most women don'twant to share.
I was like okay, well, I'd bewilling to, and I even said that
(40:09):
to him.
I was like I've been takingphotos the whole time, and so
that really was the reason Idecided to do it.
Darnah Mercieca (40:16):
Yeah, and I mean there really is no better
reason because, at the end ofthe day, you know, the power of
community is huge, the power ofjust, um, speaking to someone,
even who's been through it, whocan give you that hope, and, uh,
I mean that's that was thedriving factor behind empowered
explant.
(40:36):
And I think that, you know, justto encourage anyone who's
listening I know that sometimesit can be really scary to share
your story, and not everybodyit's not for everybody to go
public with their story or theirphotos or anything like that
but even if you can impact oneperson, that person who might've
(40:58):
just had their diagnosis, orthat person who's facing a
really difficult decision, andyou can share your journey, it
can make a huge difference.
And that is why joiningcommunity, getting connected
with somebody reading your book,reading through it, I could
just imagine that it would helpso many women just feel less
(41:21):
alone and less crazy.
And to normalize the emotionsbecause you're very real and raw
about all the the positives butalso the scary moments that you
faced and to shine a light onthose and and show like that is
(41:42):
normal.
Erica Newbert Campbell (41:42):
That's a part of this and you can feel
that and go through that andstill come out the other side
okay, a hundred percent, and Ihave shared the book.
It's now out.
But I did give advanced copiesto many women facing that
initial moments, initialdecisions, fears, and they've
been like, oh my gosh, I felt,seen and heard, yeah, and I
(42:05):
didn't feel crazy to your pointor I didn't feel like those
emotions.
I was uncomfortable talking tomy surgeon about them or, as I'm
comfortable, talking to mypartner about them, like that
for me, like you know, I I feltalone, yeah and uh.
So I again, it's all aboutpaying it forward yeah, that's
(42:25):
incredible.
Darnah Mercieca (42:26):
I'm so excited about your book and I've got a
link to it in the description inthe show notes, so definitely
be sure to check it out,especially if you know somebody
who is going through this or youknow, share it with them.
If you're going through this,grab a copy for yourself, as a
gift to yourself, and even ifyou are a support person for
(42:51):
somebody who is going through it, I think it can really paint a
picture of you know, help youfind that compassion and empathy
for what someone may be feelingor going through and help you
support them.
So just such an incredible bookand, once again, you are so
brave, so thank you for puttingit out there and so, okay, I
(43:14):
know that I'm curious and I'msure that a lot of people
listening are curious.
We have women in our communitywho have had reconstructive
surgery, who have breastimplants, who are facing the
decision to remove their breastimplants due to health concerns.
They're terrified, rightfullyso.
(43:36):
We have women in our communitywho have already, you know
they've had the mastectomy, theyhad reconstruction, but then
they've already removed theirbreast implants.
I mean, we've got women whohave just gone through it and
are in all you know stages ofthis journey.
Super curious, if you feelcomfortable talking about it,
(43:58):
how you feel about your breastimplants now, years later, and
you're obviously aware of breastimplant illness now and the
risks, the possible risks ofbreast implants especially,
especially in women who have had, you know, immune conditions
(44:20):
like cancer.
So how do you feel with themnow and is there anything that
you're doing in particular tomonitor the health of your
actual breast implants?
Erica Newbert Campbell (44:32):
Yes, all the things, and I'm so glad you
asked that.
And again, I think any womanwho has implants I'd be
interested if this resonateswith you.
They feel like a necklace.
I can't take off A heavynecklace.
You can't take off A heavynecklace.
You can't take off In thebeginning, like it really felt,
(44:52):
like you know, at the end of theday you kind of like you know
you had a tight bra on and justlike can't wait to like release
it, or you have a heavy necklaceyou can't take it off, Like I
didn't have that option and thatreally like nodded me for a
while because it did feelforeign.
And you know, certainly when Ihad the expanders in, that felt
really foreign.
I mean, it was like literallylike felt like R2D2, right, I
(45:15):
felt like a droid, yeah, and so,and I didn't have a lot of
sensation in my breasts either,right, like I literally would
like bump into things because Ididn't have, like the nerve
endings.
I will say now, five yearslater, it still doesn't feel
like they are naturally a partof my body, but I, those, some
(45:38):
of those, well, some of thesensation has come back and you
know, I guess I've gotten usedto that feeling of of again the
necklace that you can't take off.
But yeah, I mean I'm stillunder scrutiny.
Up until actually six monthsago I still met with an
oncologist every six months tocheck.
There is a slight chancethere's still breast, you know,
(46:03):
microscopic breast tissue, tomake sure that you know, because
I'm not getting mammogramsright.
So they still want to keep meunder scrutiny for any kind of
relapse or recurrence.
But I still go to my breastsurgeon and he needs to make
sure that there's not breastillness or breast implant that
has shifted or moved.
And you know, know, those areall risks.
(46:24):
I didn't know in the beginning.
And as I talked to more women,I have talked to women who've
had breast implants that haveflipped.
You know, just, you know, beenon a roller coaster and
literally the implant flipped.
They didn't have that in theinstruction manual.
So yeah, yeah, it isinteresting.
(46:44):
I also know a fair amount ofwomen who have had their
implants taken out and if youdon't follow her, the one I love
and adore is Christine Handy,who is now she's like a
Victoria's Secret model who hadher implants taken out after a
cancer diagnosis because she washaving so much illness and now
(47:06):
she's a flat chested model and Ilove that because she really
makes a point of saying youcould be flat chested and still
be really beautiful and still bea model.
But I also know women that justtook them out because they
didn't want to deal with thefear of an illness from it, and
I respect all of those choices.
Darnah Mercieca (47:26):
Standing where you are now looking to the
future, if you were faced withthat decision and this may be
way too soon and you might belike haven't faced this yet too
many decisions.
I still have decision fatiguefrom six years ago but if you
were, you know, faced withhealth concerns, either directly
(47:52):
due to your breast implants, oryou know you were just faced
with health concerns around thatWould you consider removing
them?
Is that something that you'vethought about?
Yeah, oh, yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (48:00):
If I had a health concern, 100%, I'd get
them gone yesterday, right?
I mean because it is anaccessory, right, it's a nice to
have, it's not a must have,right?
And so if it was causing me anyissues, oh, 100% implant, and
(48:26):
you know it is.
I've had these implants in nowfive years and at the 10-year
mark I will have to get themreplaced.
Right there, it's like an oldpair of shoes, you know, they
just get worn out.
I'm not sure where I'm gonna bethere, right, and I don't need
to decide right now.
But you know, those kinds ofsurgeries not super fun, it's
more than just your breasts,like there was a lot of all that
sounds funny.
But you had to have liposuctionwhich you're like that sounds
(48:46):
great.
No, it's not that kind ofliposuction, it just is really
painful.
I'm not sure where I'll bebecause, like you read it in the
passages of my book when I wassmaller, chested, flat chested.
Darnah Mercieca (48:59):
I looked good enough too.
It shines through how importantyour health is to you and how
important your life is to you,and really there's nothing more
important than that.
It's really hard todisassociate disassociate our
breasts with our femininity andwith our identity Um, yeah, and
(49:19):
and.
So it's a super difficultchoice.
What advice, looking back,would you give to somebody who
was facing this decision ofgetting a double mastectomy and
making a choice for themselveslike this like this.
Erica Newbert Campbell (49:42):
Actually , in some ways it's a
complicated question, in someways it's not.
I think if there's a breastcancer diagnosis, I'm 100% going
to recommend a doublemastectomy, and that one may be
controversial, right, but toyour point, I think your life is
far more important than yourlooks and the fear associated,
(50:02):
the mental game, but also thereal chance of a relapse or the
real chance of it spreading.
It's not worth it just toremain to look like again.
Magazines tell us to.
So that one I feel prettyconfident in the question about
would I or would I recommendimplants I could go 50-50 on
(50:23):
that, right, I think my advicewould be to ask more questions.
You know, I was kind of feelingrushed because I was like get
this out of me.
I've been dealing with this for15 years, like I just want it
out, I just want it gone.
And yeah, sure, if you tell meto trust you on the breasts,
great.
But I think maybe I would haveslowed down and asked a few more
questions.
Maybe I would have talked topeople like you or others in
(50:45):
your community Like what's itlike?
At the time I didn't knowanybody who didn't choose
reconstructive surgery and mysurgeon at the time was like
well, everybody chooses it.
So I was like well, everybodymust.
Okay, you know I think I wouldhave asked more questions and
done more research.
I wasn't in that mindset then,and you know I get to give
(51:12):
myself grace for that, so.
But I think my advice above allis to trust yourself and trust
whatever choice you make is theright one for you.
It's not for your husband orpartner, it's not for your kids,
it's not for what society tellsyou to.
Darnah Mercieca (51:22):
It is for you, and I actually would also say
there's always choice, you canchange right as long as you got
your life, as long as youprioritize your life number one.
Number one prioritize your lifeand your health.
Number two get informed, yes,and take a few breaths and get
(51:42):
informed right.
And then number three trustyourself and know that if you
make a decision and it is wrong,there's always a way to course
correct.
Erica Newbert Campbell (51:57):
Yeah, yeah.
I think a lot of times in lifewe put our pressure on ourselves
for the right choice forever,and I think it's always nuanced
and you can always make a coursecorrection.
Darnah Mercieca (52:10):
Ah, I love it.
Oh, this has been so amazing,Erica.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like to share or talk
about?
Erica Newbert Campbell (52:20):
I mean, I come back to this phrase.
I come back to three favoritephrases, right.
One is never give up.
It's sort of in the in the.
What we just talked about islike it's never over, right,
there's like you got toprioritize your life.
That's the number one.
That's actually the only thingthat's over.
Everything else is changeable.
Everything else is you can, youknow, choose differently?
(52:41):
Um, so, never give up is mynumber one.
My number two is you are notalone, you know, and that I mean
I still to this day.
There are moments I'm like, oh,I feel so, like no one else
understands and that's probablynot true.
So you are not alone.
And then another one.
My third one is trust theprocess, and I almost hate that
(53:02):
phrase too.
I'm pretty sure people said itto me.
I rolled my eyes and then youlook back, you're like, oh God,
that is right and I love yourjourney, darna, and like you
know the process.
It was the right one for you.
It wasn't the straight path andit didn't need to be.
Well, maybe you could havewanted it to be, but it makes
you a more robust, vulnerable,authentic human.
Darnah Mercieca (53:24):
It gives me more to offer the world too.
You know, I look at it likethat and I see my give backs and
and you know um the resilienceand and the the stories I'm able
to share, which then just go onto help others and, like you
said, trust the process, trustthe journey, and you're going to
end up ultimately, if you'reopen to it, I think, and if you
(53:49):
are willing to kind of take onthat journey, like you said, and
never give up, you will end upright where you're supposed to
be looking back going ah, okay,it all makes sense.
Now let's talk about whereeveryone can connect with you.
So, by the way, your website isbeautiful.
I love it.
It's gorgeous.
Erica Newbert Campbell (54:10):
My website is
ericaneubertcampbellcom.
There's a really, really funnytrue story, which is there are
other famous Erica Campbell's.
There is Erica Campbell, theChristian gospel singer, and
Erica Campbell, the former pornstar.
Darnah Mercieca (54:29):
Oh well, that's yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (54:33):
And I fall somewhere in between.
Darnah Mercieca (54:38):
Oh my goodness, that's really funny.
And yeah, I, including themiddle name definitely cuts back
the confusion.
Erica Newbert Campbell (54:46):
Yes, If you are checking me out and a
work computer, do not go toericacampbellcom.
I will redirect you topenthouse, maybe incognito, if
you're really curious if you'rereally curious, test it and let
me know, cause the last time Itested still redirected.
Darnah Mercieca (55:02):
Really curious, test it and let me know Cause
the last time I tested stillredirected, oh my goodness.
And uh, we can also find you onInstagram.
Erica Newbert Campbell (55:09):
Yeah.
Darnah Mercieca (55:17):
Yes, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn.
Okay, Instagram is Erica dot Ndot Campbell and I have put all
the links in the show notes inthe description below so that
everyone can connect with youand also grab a copy of your
book that launched this week theMastectomy I Always Wanted.
Erica Newbert Campbell (55:34):
I would love to hear from people.
That's actually my favoritepart is hearing from women.
So please, please, connect,reach out.
There's a connect with me pageon my website or, like you said,
on Instagram or any othersocial.
Darnah Mercieca (55:48):
Amazing.
Thank you.
This has been such anincredible conversation.
I swear I was fighting backtears so many times.
There were moments where I'mjust like my eyes had welled up
with tears because just yourjourney is incredible, your
story is incredible andespecially you know that
connection back to your mom'sstory as well and just I could
(56:10):
just imagine her being so proudof you.
And yeah, that's the part.
Oh, it got me again.
Erica Newbert Campbell (56:22):
Yeah, I know, I miss my mom every day.
Darnah Mercieca (56:25):
Yeah, you're doing, you're doing amazing
things, so yeah, that really, um, thank you for saying that.
Erica Newbert Campbell (56:31):
that just about uh, all I want to do
is make my mom proud, so Ireally appreciate that you are.
Darnah Mercieca (56:38):
there is no doubt about that.
Erica Newbert Campbell (56:41):
And I really want to have a
conversation with Angelina Jolie, so call me in.
Oh my gosh, I do.
I want to hug her and be likethanks for saving my life.
Darnah Mercieca (56:52):
Yeah, there's some gratitude to be expressed
here.
Absolutely.
Thanks for listening.
Breasty, I'm going to keep thisshort.
If you loved this episode, ifyou know somebody that this
could really help, if you knowsomebody who needs to pick up a
copy of Erica's book, if youfeel like sharing this would
(57:13):
make an impact in someone's life, please grab the link to this
podcast episode.
Or, if you're watching it onYouTube, grab the link and send
it to somebody.
Send it to somebody, share iton social media, share it in a
Facebook group.
Just help somebody out todaywho may need to hear this.
(57:37):
I think, just like Erica said,pay it forward.
All right, breasty, I'll seeyou back here next week.
This is Empowered Explant the podcast
helping women ditch their breastimplants with confidence.
I'm Darnah Mercieca boardcertified health and wellness
coach and explant warrior.
Now, all women in our communityare survivors survivors of the
dangers of breast implants,survivors of breast implant
(00:23):
illness but it's also importantto remember that many in our
community are survivors ofbreast cancer, and while a lot
of us chose to get breastimplants because we weren't
happy with our natural breasts,many women are forced into that
consideration because theirnatural breasts are being taken
(00:46):
from them.
Today, our guest is EricaNewbert Campbell.
She's a breast cancer survivor,director of the Pinky Swear
Foundation, helping children andtheir families through their
cancer diagnosis and treatment,and she just published her
memoir this week called theMastectomy I Always Wanted.
(01:08):
So today we're going to diveinto.
There's a lot behind that booktitle, by the way, a lot, and
we're going to talk about that.
Erica really opens up in ourconversation about her journey,
the decisions that she was facedwith, including her decision to
reconstruct with breastimplants, and what that journey
looked like for her and what itlooks like today Wow Hi.
Erica Newbert Campbell (01:31):
Erica Hi Darna, how are you?
Darnah Mercieca (01:34):
I'm fantastic, I'm very excited to be speaking
to you, and happy birthday week.
Erica Newbert Campbell (01:42):
Thank you.
Thank you, it has certainlybeen a big week, and not just my
birthday.
Darnah Mercieca (01:47):
I know the birthday and your book launched
this week.
That is so cool.
Your book launched on yourbirthday, right?
Yes, so basically there weretwo things that got birthed that
day.
Congratulations on your booklaunch.
How do you feel?
I?
Erica Newbert Campbell (02:00):
feel like someone who just gave birth
to something.
So I'm exhausted, I'm thrilled,I can't wait to see where this
book goes.
The intention is that itbecomes something bigger than
myself, and so I feel reallyexcited about it.
Darnah Mercieca (02:14):
Oh, that's amazing.
So the mastectomy I alwayswanted and I'm really excited to
talk more with you about thattitle later.
We'll definitely talk moreabout the purpose of your book
later on, but as I was readingit, as I bought it on launch day
and as I was reading it, it'slike a super personal behind the
(02:39):
curtains of your journey and,oh my gosh, it's personal like
personal notes, photos ofeverything, um, and basically
what you went through every stepof the way.
So it's just incredible.
I just want to like commend youfor your bravery for putting
that out there in book formavailable globally.
(03:01):
I mean, your boobs are now outthere yeah, yeah, yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (03:07):
I mean, I've definitely had a few
moments where I've been like isthis, is this what I want to do?
But you know, the intention isto make it normal, to normalize
that conversation, and you know,and you know, I know we'll talk
about normalize any choice thata woman makes, right, because
(03:30):
the more that we can talk aboutthese things that are awkward
and are a little bit over,perhaps over the edge, the more
we can then open up newdialogues and not make it so
strange and so awkward, right.
I mean I feel like even 20 yearsago, just the words cancer or
breast cancer was like whisperedin you know, in quiet corners,
(03:53):
and you know.
I just think it's time to talkabout these things and that's
why I love that you're talkingabout these things and in terms
of you know what is the value ofyou know of implants and
explants and things like that,yeah, I mean, at the end of the
day, know what is the value ofyou know of implants and
explants and things like that.
Darnah Mercieca (04:05):
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day too, like
just by everyone feeling morecomfortable to have the
conversations.
That's how people become moreaware of their choices.
That's how people become moreinformed, because now you're
able, you feel comfortable goingand having conversations with
different people about theirexperiences.
You feel more comfortablelearning about the different
(04:27):
terminologies and now you canactually go and have more
informed conversations with yoursurgeons and all of those
things to really inform yourdecisions.
But yeah, we'll definitely diveinto that a lot more and talk
about your decisions.
But I'd like to start kind ofgetting some of the backstory
(04:49):
and I'd love to, if you feelcomfortable which I'm sure you
do, because you just wrote awhole book about it talk about
your cancer and your experienceand talk about you know when you
found out you had breast cancerand what that diagnosis looked
like for you.
Erica Newbert Campbell (05:07):
It all began actually probably now 25
years ago, when my mother wasdiagnosed with breast cancer and
she had an early stage cancerthat all her physicians were
like this is easy to cure, youshouldn't worry.
And ultimately she relapsedfour times.
All her physicians were likethis is easy to cure, you
shouldn't worry.
And ultimately she relapsedfour times and over four years.
(05:31):
It was an incredibly wildroller coaster and it took her
life, and so breast cancer wasalways part of my worry.
It was always something I wouldthink about in the back of my
mind, and I started at arelatively early age.
(05:55):
You know, my mom died when Iwas 29.
And I immediately began to tryand advocate for myself for
mammograms and early screeningand Raka gene testing, and all
the time I was told I was tooyoung, wow, and I really had to
fight pretty hard to get thatearly screenings.
And thank God I did, because,um, you know it was, I had dense
(06:17):
breasts, I had what they callcalcifications, which are like
kind of warning signs thatbreast cancer could be in your
future, and all those thingswere tracked over time.
So I I always kind of joke thatI had scansiety for years,
which is the, which is theanxiety that comes before,
(06:37):
during and after a scan right,because you have to wait.
And I often got those callbacksright Like the phone call you
never want, which is like, hey,we did your mammogram last week,
we think we see something, canyou come back for another screen
?
So, whether it was anotherultrasound, another MRI, I had
(06:58):
those for years.
So my, my scansiety was prettyhigh.
And then, um, the and of courseyou know, there was the one time
where I got the call back thatsaid we want you to come back
for a biopsy.
I was like, ooh, that's nextlevel, right, like it had always
(07:19):
been just come back for theultrasound, just come back for a
little bit more.
And I was like, okay, okay, butto be honest, darn it, after
even all of those years, I waslike, nope, this is just
scanxiety, it'll be fine.
And that was the one time.
So that's the call I eventuallygot was after that biopsy.
I got the call where it startedoff Friday afternoon four
(07:41):
o'clock, not a great time it wasare you sitting down and are
you alone?
Was what the what the nurse,practitioner, practitioner said
when I answered the phone.
And then you know, you knowthat's when you pick up your pen
and you can't even like thinkabout anything because you, you
know what's coming, but you'restill waiting for those words,
(08:03):
were you?
That's how I got the news.
I was yeah, yeah.
Darnah Mercieca (08:09):
Are you glad that you were alone in that
moment?
Erica Newbert Campbell (08:11):
Great question.
Yes, because I was able I mean,to be honest, you know I did
quote, take notes and I justwrote scraps of words on a piece
of paper.
But as soon as I hung up, I wasable to literally put my hands
in my head and cry, and thatprivacy of that moment was
(08:32):
probably something that I couldat least like, get it out, get
my thoughts together.
And then my next phone call.
I had to pick up the phone andcall my husband and tell him
which was in broken English, tobe honest because you start to
say the words and you just can'tfinish them.
Darnah Mercieca (08:47):
Yeah, wow, I mean I've only had the scansiety
once.
I love that word, that term andI can't even imagine hearing
that next step of the biopsy.
I mean I got to ultrasound andthen got the clear, but yeah,
(09:10):
that would be terrifying.
So, wow, and how long was itbetween receiving that call and
getting your diagnosis to whenyou had the surgery and getting
your diagnosis to when you hadthe?
Erica Newbert Campbell (09:24):
surgery.
You know it was probablyquicker than most.
I want to say it was probably amonth.
Oh, wow, yeah.
But you know what comes withthat is you know.
So on Monday morning I startedto get the phone calls right.
That's when I had to meet withan oncologist, a breast surgeon,
(09:46):
a plastic surgeon, a nursepractitioner, a care coordinator
.
I mean, those meetings alone,just setting them up, probably
took a couple of weeks just todo yeah.
And you know, I did sit in thosemeetings with surgeons and was
presented with lots of options,right, options to do nothing,
(10:09):
options to have a lumpectomy,options to have a double
mastectomy, a single mastectomy.
The amount of choices they giveyou and the amount of
information comes at you, it'slike drinking from a fire hose,
right.
And so the reason I say it feltquick was because I did at
least have some.
I had always suspected this wascoming for me, so I did, had
(10:32):
already done a fair amount ofresearch.
It doesn't diminish my fear,anxiety, just complete like
bonkers feelings and emotions.
But I was pretty confident thatI wanted that mastectomy and I
said I'm also really strugglingwith the waiting, because talk
about skin anxiety, the fear andthe weight.
Oh yeah, I was like let's, onceI've, once I've decided, let's
(10:54):
do it and um even a month, feltlike 10 months you can imagine,
and was was your cancer?
Darnah Mercieca (11:02):
was it in one breast or in both?
Erica Newbert Campbell (11:10):
One breast, yeah, and so I did have.
And then you do have to get allsorts of like really heavy
testing in order to determine ifit had spread, and so that's
also part of that super anxiety,that's like anxiety squared,
whereas I had to go for acontrast MRI and they wanted to
see did it spread to otherlocations in your body, into
your breasts, into your lymphnodes?
And they never really know forsure until they do the surgery.
But um, oh God.
Darnah Mercieca (11:33):
Yeah, all of a sudden, you become a science
experiment.
Yes, yeah, yes, wow.
And so then, um, let's talkabout your decision to move
forward with a double mastectomy.
What I think you mentioned thatyou were choosing between a
mastectomy or a lumpectomy.
What did that decision looklike and how did you come to
(11:55):
yours?
Erica Newbert Campbell (11:56):
Yeah, you know the options they
present you and I'm going totell them in the most simplistic
form, which is the lumpectomy,which is just removing that, you
know, sort of the cancerouscells and the air surrounding
tissue, or the double mastectomy.
Now, obviously, the doublemastectomy is far more invasive,
yeah, and the lumpectomy, youknow, would be less challenging
(12:20):
in terms of a surgery, but italso comes with a couple of
things.
Right, it comes with thepotential for radiation or
chemotherapy afterwards.
It comes with potential for um,you know, estrogen or tamoxifen
, and and.
But ultimately, what it camedown to for me was how I was
going to think about it.
What was the mental game that Iwas willing to play the rest of
(12:43):
my life.
Darnah Mercieca (12:45):
Wow.
Erica Newbert Campbell (12:46):
Because if you have a lumpectomy, yeah,
you know you definitely have afar easier recovery and you know
far less.
You know fear about losing yourbreasts and femininity and all
of the things that.
That's why, you know, peoplechoose a lumpectomy.
But I was like wait a minute,then I will be subjected to a
(13:06):
lifetime of those moremammograms, mris, breasts,
ultrasounds that scansiety wouldbe present for me at an even
higher level for the rest of mylife.
Yeah, and you might end up rightback here again, which is what
happened to my mom, yeah, and soI was like whole man, I am
(13:28):
rewriting this story.
And it did feel reallyredemptive to have that choice
again.
I mean, a lot of times women inthese situations don't feel
like they have a lot of choicesand I was like, okay, well, I
have choice and I'm going totake a different path.
(13:49):
Right, choose the path, less,less taken.
And so I definitely chose thatdouble mastectomy, fully aware
it was going to be more painful,more invasive, more challenging
.
And then, of course, camechoices about reconstruction.
Do you do it, do you not?
And you know the choice?
I don't know.
Flow chart just continues to goon.
Darnah Mercieca (14:10):
Yes, actually, if you don't mind, if it's okay
with you, I'd love to read a fewsentences from your book.
Of course I would love that Iwas reading through your book
and this part really had animpact on me.
It like I felt it.
I mean, a lot of your book did,to be honest, but this part, I
think, given the topic of thepodcast, empowered Explant and
(14:34):
talking about breast implantsthis had a real impact on me and
I'm sure everyone listeningwill resonate.
So you say in your book.
I also questioned my decisionsabout the next step.
My current pain was directlyrelated to my choice to insert
implants under my chest muscle.
(14:55):
I started to like beingslightly flat chested.
I looked thinner from theimmediate loss of a few pounds
of flesh.
With this new lightness, Iwondered if I'd made the wrong
decision to pursue implants andreconstruction.
What I saw in the mirrorstarted to look good enough.
I love that.
By the way, the subsequentsurgery to replace the expanders
(15:18):
with permanent implants loomedlarge.
I knew breast reconstructionwas the right path, but I grew
weary of the uncertainty anddoubt.
I thought the initial surgerymeant the end of the decisions,
but I was wrong.
More choices loomed, as youwere just saying.
Now I faced the size and shapeof my new fake breasts, the type
(15:40):
of implant and the volume ofsaline.
Whenever I questioned the nextstep or the pace of my progress,
my doctor asked me to trust himand I did.
Wow, that really paints apicture beautifully written and
and I think there's just there'sso many points that stand out
(16:04):
here to me that I'd love to talkmore about.
You know, I'd love to talk toyou about what led you to the
decision to reconstruct withbreast implants and if you were
given other options or madeaware of the risks associated.
Because here you said, wheneveryou question the next step or
(16:25):
the pace of the risks associated, because here you said,
whenever you question the nextstep or the pace of your
progress, your doctor asked youto trust him and you did.
And I think where so many of usresonate, whether we've been
through cancer or not, but justwith the process of breast
implants, we trust our surgeons,right, you know they were going
(16:49):
to them with a medical concernor with an aesthetic concern,
and we trust them to really dothe best thing by us medically
and to give us all theinformation that we need.
And I can imagine at that point, like you said, you'd had so
many decisions.
I can imagine there was a lotof decision fatigue.
(17:11):
All this was happening in thespan of a month, which I can't
even believe, and it's such anemotional rollercoaster and I
can imagine that with thisdecision, you probably would
have just been like just trusthim and just go with it and
let's get this done.
Yeah, yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (17:31):
I mean thank you, by the way, for
reading that passage and I'm soglad that that landed for you
and I now I, you, actually youreading it back to me.
Put me back in that moment,cause I do remember thinking,
geez, what have I done?
When I made the choices to havethe reconstructive surgery, I
did have to make all of thosechoices at the very beginning,
(17:53):
right, and at the time I wassitting in fear, anxiety, just
like am I going to die?
Is this over?
What am I going to look like?
Am I still a woman?
What is my husband going tothink?
Like thousands of things arerunning through your head and
the doctor is saying here areyour choices.
Do you want you're going tohave reconstructive implants?
(18:14):
Right?
I'm like, uh, sure, sure, yeah,okay, you know.
I mean like you're almost notin a place to even think about
that because there's otherbigger choices about like your
life your life Right?
I was going to say, like life ordeath, right, is cancer going
to take me?
I mean, I'd seen my mom die.
I literally held her hand whenshe died and I didn't want that
(18:38):
path.
So that was all I was focusedon.
I wasn't as focused on like,what is this going to look like?
Am I still going to feel like awoman?
And of course that crossed mymind at the time.
But you know, when I wrote thatpassage, it had been several,
you know several weeks after mysurgery and I was like, wait,
wait, this is this is goodenough.
Why did I say that I wantedmore?
Darnah Mercieca (19:01):
And there's also photos.
There's photos inside your bookand so looking at those, it's
so interesting.
Know, you don't know at thatpoint.
You know, when you're firstdiagnosed and you're making all
these decisions, you have noidea what you're going to look
like after your mastectomy, oryou know no idea, but in your
photos I'm like, oh, youactually looked great.
Um, you look well proportioned,uh.
(19:24):
So yeah, I could imagine youstanding there going oh, wow,
wow, okay.
Erica Newbert Campbell (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, and it's like I'll be
honest by that point.
Could I have made a reversal ofthat choice?
Probably, I felt like the trainhad left the station and that
trust piece gosh.
You and I could do an entirepodcast on trust and the amount
of trust you have to put inessentially one human and one
human that I haven't even reallyspent time with, I don't have a
relationship with you know youthink about you, know you date
somebody for years before youget married.
But I have to make a decisionabout a surgeon in about 20
minutes and then it's on to thenext patient, right, and the
(20:07):
amount of trust you have to packinto those short periods of
time is really challenging.
How?
Darnah Mercieca (20:14):
would you describe the emotions that you
felt around losing your breasts?
Erica Newbert Campbell (20:20):
I mean it sounds so funny I just felt
like I had this complicatedrelationship with my breasts and
that I was a late bloomer andso when I was a teenager, like I
really wanted breasts, like Iwas, that I was that like
classic teenager that would likelook at them in the mirror,
like do you think they getbigger today?
You know, I was like trying tolike squeeze and like lean over
(20:43):
and look and see, like I wassuch a late bloomer and you know
it caused me some maybe I'mgoing to say anxiety, discomfort
, you know, when all of my peersat that age were, you know,
just, you know a lot moredeveloped than me.
So it was always something Ilike, desperately wanted.
And of course, you know, yes, Ijust had to be patient.
(21:04):
So in my 20s I did, I got abeautiful set of boobs, like
they eventually grew and Ilooked great and you know I'd
wear tight tops and you know,want to show my cleavage like
any 20.
Something would, um, you know,appropriately, not
inappropriately.
Darnah Mercieca (21:21):
I don't know about.
There's that porn star, Ericashe took it a a little far.
Erica Newbert Campbell (21:26):
She took it a little too far and you
know I wasn't there yet.
I was conservative but proud,you know, and you know, and then
, you know, then I got married,I had babies and, like,
breastfeeding wasn't like themost easy or the most like
(21:47):
natural experience for me.
I did it, I, I was glad, I didit, um, but then those my boobs
became like this source oftension for me, because then
they were became this thing thatcaused me fear.
Yeah, right, because that'swhen I was in the phase of all
these like hey, I think we seesomething that was, I mean, that
went on for 10 years.
I would have these scarymammograms.
(22:09):
So you know, again, it's like Ireally wanted the breasts.
Then I got them and I was happyto have them.
Then they were this like sourceof life for my children, and
then they became this source ofanxiety, fear and dread, and so
it was like this roller coasterrelationship with my boobs.
And so, yeah, when it was timeto decide to get rid of them I
(22:30):
lack of a better word Um, it was, it was maybe bittersweet, yeah
, um, because I, I was and I'llput this in quotes and I don't
mean to suspect I was glad toget rid of the fear piece of my
body.
Darnah Mercieca (22:45):
Yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (22:47):
Um, but I also was.
You know, I still wanted tolook good.
You know there's still that,not that I want to say ego, but
you know, just, the peerpressure for women is really
high.
And I remember and I have somereally beautiful memories with
my mom.
So, you know, during her, herjourney and her relapse, she
(23:08):
event, you know, she started offwith a lumpectomy.
After she relapsed, she had asingle mastectomy and so she had
one natural boob and then shechose not to have reconstructive
surgery on her remaining boob.
So you know, we would go tobreast cancer stores and we'd be
buying the you know sort ofjust things to stuff her bra.
(23:31):
She would still wear a naturalbra and we had to go shopping
for really special bathing suitsand just seeing her I mean she
literally had one of each, onereal and one absent.
In some ways, like that was astruggle for me, because she
always felt half and half, yeah,and so that's why I was like
(23:54):
let's just take both of them andit was okay.
And I talked to my husbandabout it too and he was like I
didn't marry you for your boobs.
You know, like you're a lotmore than that.
But you know those questionsand those conversations had to
happen still.
Darnah Mercieca (24:12):
Yeah, and did you have concern around that and
how it would affect yourrelationship and your intimacy?
Erica Newbert Campbell (24:21):
A hundred percent.
Darnah Mercieca (24:22):
Yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (24:22):
A hundred percent.
You know, and you know I won'tget private here, but you know
that's like we had aconversation about it.
You know we were intimate thenight before I had my surgery
Cause I was like, well, this isthe time for you to do that.
You know, like it's now ornever, and I would say now today
, fast forward.
(24:43):
You know, I did have thatreconstructive surgery and mine
look pretty real.
I mean, you can see them in thebook and um, so my husband is
totally happy with them.
Darnah Mercieca (24:56):
but it's not about him.
Erica Newbert Campbell (24:57):
You know what I mean.
I mean not disrespectfully tohim, it's about me.
Darnah Mercieca (25:01):
Well, and even even the piece that feels a
little about him is still aboutyou, because it's about how you
feel in those moments with him.
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, I, Iunderstand that and, um, the
tattooing you got looksbeautiful oh, that was like it's
.
Erica Newbert Campbell (25:20):
That's the secret nobody tells you.
I mean, once you get in thisworld.
When I learned there was tattooartists in this world where
their full-time job, fullybooked, is nipple tattoos, I was
like what it's?
Like a subculture almost.
(25:41):
And yeah, I mean for those ofyou who I'm not going to show
them on this podcast, but if youget the book, you'll see the
nipple tattoos.
The 3d looks 3d, even thoughit's completely flat.
Darnah Mercieca (25:54):
Yeah, I mean just a tattoo.
In some cases you might eventrade your nipples for a better
set of nipples.
I mean that's a hundred percent.
They're very impressive.
Erica Newbert Campbell (26:06):
They look very, very, very real.
Yeah, that's awesome, that'sawesome, yeah.
And I will say, like that's thepiece where.
And then you know this happenslike if I go to a gym and you
know there's a women's lockerroom or you, you know you're at
a swimming pool, like I don'tworry.
When I didn't have nipples, Iwas afraid that you get sort of
like no one's staring at you,right, but you get the double
(26:27):
take of like wait, what, what?
I didn't that I no longerworried about anymore.
Darnah Mercieca (26:34):
Amazing, yeah, and.
And so you went through theexpanders, you went through the
implant process, you have breastimplants.
Now what?
What was the time timeframe onthat journey?
Erica Newbert Campbell (26:50):
Yeah, that's where I felt like, ooh,
this is going real fast.
I mean, I wanna say two weeksor maybe three weeks after my
surgery and again, if you seethe photos, like I looked like a
Frankenstein and they were like, yep, you're ready to start
expanding.
It's like what I'm still like,it's fresh, it's still so fresh
(27:13):
and you know, literally likethey're in with these um
expanders, it's kind of like adeflated balloon underneath your
chest and they use a magnet tofind where the like sort of the
opening of the balloon is andthat's where they mark me, like
you know, mark me literally witha Sharpie, and then that's when
I come in with a needle andthen they'll inject saline into
(27:35):
that balloon.
Yeah, I did.
I felt like I don't know, likesomething out of Star Wars,
right, you know, it's just likethere's metal underneath my skin
and there's a magnet nowattached to my chest and a
marker um, and it was.
It was like.
It was like living my teenageyears again, because it was an
immediate reaction.
You know, you could see, um, mychest get bigger.
(27:59):
Yeah, just like, right then,and it was it was a little bit
painful.
Darnah Mercieca (28:03):
Yeah, oh, I can imagine yeah, but that took.
Erica Newbert Campbell (28:06):
So then they would, they would put a
little bit in and then let myskin and you know it was painful
.
It was like, have you ever hadbraces on your teeth?
Oh yeah, like you know, whenthey get them tightened it's
like it's like sore for threedays.
That's kind of what it feltlike, um, and so they, I would
wait a week, go back again andand to your point about choices,
like I was like well, thislooks good enough, I don't need
(28:29):
to be bigger.
But you know, again my surgeonis like I think you're going to
want to be at least your samesize.
And I was like he's like youcan go bigger.
Darnah Mercieca (28:38):
Oh, no, no, that is always the thing that
surgeons say.
I don't even understand it.
I'm like because then you startquestioning.
I mean you may not have, but ina lot of cases you start
questioning like, should I bebigger?
And I mean it definitelyhappened to me.
I went in wanting something.
I wanted a C and I came outwith a double D.
(29:02):
Like I didn't want a double D,I can't even.
I'm too small to carry a doubleD safely Well on earth.
I didn't ask for all thosepostural issues, so no, it's
actually very interesting.
May I ask what size you werenaturally versus what size you
came out with?
Yeah, I would say borderline BC.
Erica Newbert Campbell (29:24):
So I mean I would say, like
appropriately for my frame,right.
But the surgeon did say do youwant to go full C?
Right, and I was like you knowit sounds, and we joked about it
and I was like, well, again,that's what I wanted as a
teenager, right, that's what Iwanted in my twenties, yeah.
But then to your point, I waslike, oh, wait a minute, then
(29:44):
that might hurt my back musclesor you know, that's not the
thing we talked about.
He was just like, well,whatever you choose.
And then I had to really like,think about it, about exercise,
right, like just having biggerbreasts, like jogging, you know,
would be just more ups anddowns.
Darnah Mercieca (30:04):
So you actually thought about those things.
Oh yeah, for sure, gosh, I wishI did.
Maybe it was because I was 23and just not.
I was just like the big boobs,please.
Um, I was not thinking aboutany of those things, but I'm uh,
I'm glad you did so, that atleast, even though you were
going down the path of gettingimplants, you were making an
(30:27):
informed decision about the size.
That's good.
Erica Newbert Campbell (30:29):
Yeah, but I mean it was tempting
because in my teens and twenties, yeah, I would have gone like
bring on the C, bring on the D.
But you know I was diagnosed at45, right, where I had a little
bit more like I've run into,I've run into sports bra, where
you know, not always comfortable.
Darnah Mercieca (30:47):
And you'd already been through pregnancy,
knowing what those big, massive,heavy boots felt like.
So you had a little perspective.
Erica Newbert Campbell (30:56):
I had perspective, so you get to give
yourself great starter, becausein my teens and twenties I would
have gone double D, yeah, Ithink a lot of us do just go big
or go home, sure, why not?
Darnah Mercieca (31:15):
a lot of us do just go big or go home, sure,
why not?
Exactly, wow, such a journey.
Erica Newbert Campbell (31:17):
And so how long has it been now from
the time where you could saythat you were healed, you were,
you had your nipples tattooed,like you were kind of there, to
now, oh, I want to say it'sprobably been five years, okay,
yeah, I mean it's been probablysix and a half since my original
diagnosis and, uh, you know I,so I can joke about it now,
(31:41):
right, I can talk about it witha lot of hope and inspiration.
And that's my intention.
Is that to give other womenthat future, them right, the
future look of like that ispossible, like now I'm really
happy, right, I'm really.
I don't have scansiety, yeah, Idon't worry about it.
I don't have real breasts so Ican't get breast cancer, and
(32:02):
that's the mental relief of thathas transformed my life, I
would say.
Darnah Mercieca (32:10):
Is that where the title of your book comes
from?
Yeah, the Mastectomy I AlwaysWanted.
Is that?
Erica Newbert Campbell (32:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a little bit
about.
I always wanted to get rid ofthe fear, I always wanted to
rewrite the story of my mom'sjourney and I always wanted, oh
gosh, peace of mind.
Peace of mind, you know, andthe power to choose my own
(32:37):
journey, and I think that's whatI love about.
What you talk about, too, islike we all get to make our own
choices.
And you know, it's funny,somebody, somebody once
challenged me in this game oflike what do you want, right?
And they said what do you want?
You give an answer, and it'susually pretty superficial.
You know, I want to win thelottery.
You know what do you want?
(32:58):
And they keep asking it to youover and over again until you
get to the heart of what youreally want.
And so, by like the 50th time,this person asked me quite
intensely what do you want?
My answer was freedom.
Darnah Mercieca (33:14):
Yeah, when were you playing this game?
This was before your surgery.
Erica Newbert Campbell (33:18):
Yeah, this was actually in the middle
of writing my book and this isbefore the title of this book.
To be totally honest, it's evenkind of interesting.
I put this in theacknowledgement sections of the
book is where I actually do aspecial shout out to Angelina
Jolie, and I don't know ifpeople know her story because
it's quite old now.
But I want to say now, I thinkit's 10 to 15 years ago.
(33:39):
I want to say now, I think it's10 to 15 years ago, she wrote
an op-ed in the New York Timesand it was about how she chose
her own voluntary mastectomy.
Because she was diagnosed asBRCA positive, so she didn't
have cancer, she didn't have anydisease, but she had the BRCA
gene and so made a really boldchoice to have a double
(34:03):
mastectomy with reconstructivesurgery, and it was.
This was finally like for comingout, and at the time again this
is like 15 years ago it wasreally revolutionary and it was
not something that was talkedabout.
Now I think celebrities arelike, oh my gosh, I was
diagnosed with cancer, but backthen that wasn't, it wasn't a
public facing activity, and sothis was really groundbreaking
(34:26):
and in fact there's research outthere that calls it the
Angelina Jolie effect.
Oh wow, in that afterwards manypeople, especially BRCA
positive women, chose to havepreventative mastectomies and
some chose not to havereconstruction.
Some chose to havereconstruction.
It's the first time I'd everheard of it.
Darnah Mercieca (34:46):
That's so empowering.
She really empowered women totake control of their futures
and I love that.
And, by the way, angie, ifyou're listening, you got to get
a copy of this book becauseyour name is in it.
Erica Newbert Campbell (35:02):
And, like Angelina, if you're
listening, seriously call me,because you saved my life.
Darnah Mercieca (35:08):
Hold up, hold up your book.
I know you got it there.
Ah, I love your book cover somuch.
Tell me about the thumbprintsor the fingerprints on your book
, I know they make an adorableheart.
But what?
Inspired them.
Erica Newbert Campbell (35:26):
Yeah, oh gosh, I worked with the best
cover designer and that was heridea and she had read the book
and so her vision on the twothumbprints was really several
layered.
It was, you know, there's likegenetics right, your thumbprint
is your genetics.
And there's again like the BRCApositive for some folks Also
(35:47):
there's.
You know, it takes twothumbprints and that was
representative of myself and mymom.
Are two thumbprints, or myselfand another woman, right,
because we're all in thistogether.
Anybody listening, I guarantee,has their own journey, but like
there's somebody that connectswith you, right, like this Um,
and it doesn't need to be me,just I guarantee it's somebody,
(36:09):
and so, just that togethernessof um, you are not alone.
Uh, we each have our ownidentity and so we're different,
yet we are connected.
It's really the inspirationbehind that.
Darnah Mercieca (36:21):
That's deep.
I love your cover designer.
Erica Newbert Campbell (36:23):
Yeah, she's amazing.
She's amazing, emily Mahan.
Yeah.
Darnah Mercieca (36:36):
Great, I love that.
That's gorgeous.
Yeah, your book is beautiful,and so I want to talk a little
bit more about your book.
What made you decide to writeyour book?
What made you say, okay, I'mgoing to write a book, I'm going
to pour my whole journey intothis, I'm going to put it all
out into the world?
Erica Newbert Campbell (36:51):
I write a little bit about this in my
book and it's this kind of funnystory.
That was not my intention fromthe start.
I'll say that.
But when I was diagnosed, I wasworking full time as a leader
of a team and I had to announceto my team that I was diagnosed.
I was working full-time as aleader of a team and I had to
announce to my team that I wasdiagnosed and I was going to
take a few weeks off.
Afterwards there was a womanwho pulled me aside and she was
(37:13):
new to the office, new to theteam.
I didn't really know her verywell, worked for me and she's
like, hey, again, woman to woman, I've been diagnosed with the
same thing.
I had the same surgery fiveyears ago.
Do you want to see what mybreasts look like today?
And I'm like, oh my God, thatis so unprofessional, so awkward
(37:35):
, and I don't even know you.
And, yes, I totally want to seethis.
You know I was like, yes, hr,so we like go off the beaten
path in the office.
You know the bathroom that likenobody ever uses.
And then we locked the door.
(37:55):
She takes off her shirt and herbreasts look amazing, like they
look so real.
Her scars are so faint you canbarely see them.
I'm like literally like upclose, like are you sure?
Like she's like, do you see thelittle line?
Like I could barely see him.
She also had nipples removed.
She had the 3d nipple tattooand I was like those look real
(38:18):
and I literally I'm embarrassedto say I was like, can I touch
them?
She's like, yeah, sure, andlike it sure was not a actual
nipple, but it looked like itand it gave me so much hope in
that moment.
Right that's when I was in thatwaiting period, that fear like
your mind goes into really darkplaces and I was like, oh my God
(38:39):
, I feel so much better.
But I also in that moment waslike like, oh my God, I feel so
much better.
But I also in that moment waslike this is probably pretty
rare.
Like how often does likeanother woman willingly do this
on the spot, incrediblyvulnerable.
I barely knew her and I waslike I feel like I got to pay
this forward.
And again, not in that momentwas I like I'm going to write a
book, but I was like I let mejust take pictures in case I
(39:02):
want to help another woman inthe future and, sure enough, a
couple of months, a couple ofyears, people knew about my
surgery and then they would passmy name on to other women and
so I'd get these calls, textslike hey, I'm a friend of
Darna's, I'm having the samesurgery, can you give me some
advice?
And I'm texting these photos toother random strangers and and
(39:26):
calling them and giving themadvice.
And that's when I was like Ithink I'm onto something here
because people found it reallyhelpful.
Yeah, they were like oh, my God, thank you so much.
And so that really was theinspiration.
I was like okay, so I've beenable to help 10 women, you know,
over the course of a couple ofyears.
What if I turn this into a bookand what if I could get this
(39:47):
out to thousands of women?
Because, again, it wasn't aresource my surgeon.
Getting back to the trustconversation, I would say what
am I supposed to look like?
What's normal?
And you tell me to trust you,but like, do you have any photos
?
He's like no, most women don'twant to share.
I was like okay, well, I'd bewilling to, and I even said that
(40:09):
to him.
I was like I've been takingphotos the whole time, and so
that really was the reason Idecided to do it.
Darnah Mercieca (40:16):
Yeah, and I mean there really is no better
reason because, at the end ofthe day, you know, the power of
community is huge, the power ofjust, um, speaking to someone,
even who's been through it, whocan give you that hope, and, uh,
I mean that's that was thedriving factor behind empowered
explant.
(40:36):
And I think that, you know, justto encourage anyone who's
listening I know that sometimesit can be really scary to share
your story, and not everybodyit's not for everybody to go
public with their story or theirphotos or anything like that
but even if you can impact oneperson, that person who might've
(40:58):
just had their diagnosis, orthat person who's facing a
really difficult decision, andyou can share your journey, it
can make a huge difference.
And that is why joiningcommunity, getting connected
with somebody reading your book,reading through it, I could
just imagine that it would helpso many women just feel less
(41:21):
alone and less crazy.
And to normalize the emotionsbecause you're very real and raw
about all the the positives butalso the scary moments that you
faced and to shine a light onthose and and show like that is
(41:42):
normal.
Erica Newbert Campbell (41:42):
That's a part of this and you can feel
that and go through that andstill come out the other side
okay, a hundred percent, and Ihave shared the book.
It's now out.
But I did give advanced copiesto many women facing that
initial moments, initialdecisions, fears, and they've
been like, oh my gosh, I felt,seen and heard, yeah, and I
(42:05):
didn't feel crazy to your pointor I didn't feel like those
emotions.
I was uncomfortable talking tomy surgeon about them or, as I'm
comfortable, talking to mypartner about them, like that
for me, like you know, I I feltalone, yeah and uh.
So I again, it's all aboutpaying it forward yeah, that's
(42:25):
incredible.
Darnah Mercieca (42:26):
I'm so excited about your book and I've got a
link to it in the description inthe show notes, so definitely
be sure to check it out,especially if you know somebody
who is going through this or youknow, share it with them.
If you're going through this,grab a copy for yourself, as a
gift to yourself, and even ifyou are a support person for
(42:51):
somebody who is going through it, I think it can really paint a
picture of you know, help youfind that compassion and empathy
for what someone may be feelingor going through and help you
support them.
So just such an incredible bookand, once again, you are so
brave, so thank you for puttingit out there and so, okay, I
(43:14):
know that I'm curious and I'msure that a lot of people
listening are curious.
We have women in our communitywho have had reconstructive
surgery, who have breastimplants, who are facing the
decision to remove their breastimplants due to health concerns.
They're terrified, rightfullyso.
(43:36):
We have women in our communitywho have already, you know
they've had the mastectomy, theyhad reconstruction, but then
they've already removed theirbreast implants.
I mean, we've got women whohave just gone through it and
are in all you know stages ofthis journey.
Super curious, if you feelcomfortable talking about it,
(43:58):
how you feel about your breastimplants now, years later, and
you're obviously aware of breastimplant illness now and the
risks, the possible risks ofbreast implants especially,
especially in women who have had, you know, immune conditions
(44:20):
like cancer.
So how do you feel with themnow and is there anything that
you're doing in particular tomonitor the health of your
actual breast implants?
Erica Newbert Campbell (44:32):
Yes, all the things, and I'm so glad you
asked that.
And again, I think any womanwho has implants I'd be
interested if this resonateswith you.
They feel like a necklace.
I can't take off A heavynecklace.
You can't take off A heavynecklace.
You can't take off In thebeginning, like it really felt,
(44:52):
like you know, at the end of theday you kind of like you know
you had a tight bra on and justlike can't wait to like release
it, or you have a heavy necklaceyou can't take it off, Like I
didn't have that option and thatreally like nodded me for a
while because it did feelforeign.
And you know, certainly when Ihad the expanders in, that felt
really foreign.
I mean, it was like literallylike felt like R2D2, right, I
(45:15):
felt like a droid, yeah, and so,and I didn't have a lot of
sensation in my breasts either,right, like I literally would
like bump into things because Ididn't have, like the nerve
endings.
I will say now, five yearslater, it still doesn't feel
like they are naturally a partof my body, but I, those, some
(45:38):
of those, well, some of thesensation has come back and you
know, I guess I've gotten usedto that feeling of of again the
necklace that you can't take off.
But yeah, I mean I'm stillunder scrutiny.
Up until actually six monthsago I still met with an
oncologist every six months tocheck.
There is a slight chancethere's still breast, you know,
(46:03):
microscopic breast tissue, tomake sure that you know, because
I'm not getting mammogramsright.
So they still want to keep meunder scrutiny for any kind of
relapse or recurrence.
But I still go to my breastsurgeon and he needs to make
sure that there's not breastillness or breast implant that
has shifted or moved.
And you know, know, those areall risks.
(46:24):
I didn't know in the beginning.
And as I talked to more women,I have talked to women who've
had breast implants that haveflipped.
You know, just, you know, beenon a roller coaster and
literally the implant flipped.
They didn't have that in theinstruction manual.
So yeah, yeah, it isinteresting.
(46:44):
I also know a fair amount ofwomen who have had their
implants taken out and if youdon't follow her, the one I love
and adore is Christine Handy,who is now she's like a
Victoria's Secret model who hadher implants taken out after a
cancer diagnosis because she washaving so much illness and now
(47:06):
she's a flat chested model and Ilove that because she really
makes a point of saying youcould be flat chested and still
be really beautiful and still bea model.
But I also know women that justtook them out because they
didn't want to deal with thefear of an illness from it, and
I respect all of those choices.
Darnah Mercieca (47:26):
Standing where you are now looking to the
future, if you were faced withthat decision and this may be
way too soon and you might belike haven't faced this yet too
many decisions.
I still have decision fatiguefrom six years ago but if you
were, you know, faced withhealth concerns, either directly
(47:52):
due to your breast implants, oryou know you were just faced
with health concerns around thatWould you consider removing
them?
Is that something that you'vethought about?
Yeah, oh, yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (48:00):
If I had a health concern, 100%, I'd get
them gone yesterday, right?
I mean because it is anaccessory, right, it's a nice to
have, it's not a must have,right?
And so if it was causing me anyissues, oh, 100% implant, and
(48:26):
you know it is.
I've had these implants in nowfive years and at the 10-year
mark I will have to get themreplaced.
Right there, it's like an oldpair of shoes, you know, they
just get worn out.
I'm not sure where I'm gonna bethere, right, and I don't need
to decide right now.
But you know, those kinds ofsurgeries not super fun, it's
more than just your breasts,like there was a lot of all that
sounds funny.
But you had to have liposuctionwhich you're like that sounds
(48:46):
great.
No, it's not that kind ofliposuction, it just is really
painful.
I'm not sure where I'll bebecause, like you read it in the
passages of my book when I wassmaller, chested, flat chested.
Darnah Mercieca (48:59):
I looked good enough too.
It shines through how importantyour health is to you and how
important your life is to you,and really there's nothing more
important than that.
It's really hard todisassociate disassociate our
breasts with our femininity andwith our identity Um, yeah, and
(49:19):
and.
So it's a super difficultchoice.
What advice, looking back,would you give to somebody who
was facing this decision ofgetting a double mastectomy and
making a choice for themselveslike this like this.
Erica Newbert Campbell (49:42):
Actually , in some ways it's a
complicated question, in someways it's not.
I think if there's a breastcancer diagnosis, I'm 100% going
to recommend a doublemastectomy, and that one may be
controversial, right, but toyour point, I think your life is
far more important than yourlooks and the fear associated,
(50:02):
the mental game, but also thereal chance of a relapse or the
real chance of it spreading.
It's not worth it just toremain to look like again.
Magazines tell us to.
So that one I feel prettyconfident in the question about
would I or would I recommendimplants I could go 50-50 on
(50:23):
that, right, I think my advicewould be to ask more questions.
You know, I was kind of feelingrushed because I was like get
this out of me.
I've been dealing with this for15 years, like I just want it
out, I just want it gone.
And yeah, sure, if you tell meto trust you on the breasts,
great.
But I think maybe I would haveslowed down and asked a few more
questions.
Maybe I would have talked topeople like you or others in
(50:45):
your community Like what's itlike?
At the time I didn't knowanybody who didn't choose
reconstructive surgery and mysurgeon at the time was like
well, everybody chooses it.
So I was like well, everybodymust.
Okay, you know I think I wouldhave asked more questions and
done more research.
I wasn't in that mindset then,and you know I get to give
(51:12):
myself grace for that, so.
But I think my advice above allis to trust yourself and trust
whatever choice you make is theright one for you.
It's not for your husband orpartner, it's not for your kids,
it's not for what society tellsyou to.
Darnah Mercieca (51:22):
It is for you, and I actually would also say
there's always choice, you canchange right as long as you got
your life, as long as youprioritize your life number one.
Number one prioritize your lifeand your health.
Number two get informed, yes,and take a few breaths and get
(51:42):
informed right.
And then number three trustyourself and know that if you
make a decision and it is wrong,there's always a way to course
correct.
Erica Newbert Campbell (51:57):
Yeah, yeah.
I think a lot of times in lifewe put our pressure on ourselves
for the right choice forever,and I think it's always nuanced
and you can always make a coursecorrection.
Darnah Mercieca (52:10):
Ah, I love it.
Oh, this has been so amazing,Erica.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like to share or talk
about?
Erica Newbert Campbell (52:20):
I mean, I come back to this phrase.
I come back to three favoritephrases, right.
One is never give up.
It's sort of in the in the.
What we just talked about islike it's never over, right,
there's like you got toprioritize your life.
That's the number one.
That's actually the only thingthat's over.
Everything else is changeable.
Everything else is you can, youknow, choose differently?
(52:41):
Um, so, never give up is mynumber one.
My number two is you are notalone, you know, and that I mean
I still to this day.
There are moments I'm like, oh,I feel so, like no one else
understands and that's probablynot true.
So you are not alone.
And then another one.
My third one is trust theprocess, and I almost hate that
(53:02):
phrase too.
I'm pretty sure people said itto me.
I rolled my eyes and then youlook back, you're like, oh God,
that is right and I love yourjourney, darna, and like you
know the process.
It was the right one for you.
It wasn't the straight path andit didn't need to be.
Well, maybe you could havewanted it to be, but it makes
you a more robust, vulnerable,authentic human.
Darnah Mercieca (53:24):
It gives me more to offer the world too.
You know, I look at it likethat and I see my give backs and
and you know um the resilienceand and the the stories I'm able
to share, which then just go onto help others and, like you
said, trust the process, trustthe journey, and you're going to
end up ultimately, if you'reopen to it, I think, and if you
(53:49):
are willing to kind of take onthat journey, like you said, and
never give up, you will end upright where you're supposed to
be looking back going ah, okay,it all makes sense.
Now let's talk about whereeveryone can connect with you.
So, by the way, your website isbeautiful.
I love it.
It's gorgeous.
Erica Newbert Campbell (54:10):
My website is
ericaneubertcampbellcom.
There's a really, really funnytrue story, which is there are
other famous Erica Campbell's.
There is Erica Campbell, theChristian gospel singer, and
Erica Campbell, the former pornstar.
Darnah Mercieca (54:29):
Oh well, that's yeah.
Erica Newbert Campbell (54:33):
And I fall somewhere in between.
Darnah Mercieca (54:38):
Oh my goodness, that's really funny.
And yeah, I, including themiddle name definitely cuts back
the confusion.
Erica Newbert Campbell (54:46):
Yes, If you are checking me out and a
work computer, do not go toericacampbellcom.
I will redirect you topenthouse, maybe incognito, if
you're really curious if you'rereally curious, test it and let
me know, cause the last time Itested still redirected.
Darnah Mercieca (55:02):
Really curious, test it and let me know Cause
the last time I tested stillredirected, oh my goodness.
And uh, we can also find you onInstagram.
Erica Newbert Campbell (55:09):
Yeah.
Darnah Mercieca (55:17):
Yes, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn.
Okay, Instagram is Erica dot Ndot Campbell and I have put all
the links in the show notes inthe description below so that
everyone can connect with youand also grab a copy of your
book that launched this week theMastectomy I Always Wanted.
Erica Newbert Campbell (55:34):
I would love to hear from people.
That's actually my favoritepart is hearing from women.
So please, please, connect,reach out.
There's a connect with me pageon my website or, like you said,
on Instagram or any othersocial.
Darnah Mercieca (55:48):
Amazing.
Thank you.
This has been such anincredible conversation.
I swear I was fighting backtears so many times.
There were moments where I'mjust like my eyes had welled up
with tears because just yourjourney is incredible, your
story is incredible andespecially you know that
connection back to your mom'sstory as well and just I could
(56:10):
just imagine her being so proudof you.
And yeah, that's the part.
Oh, it got me again.
Erica Newbert Campbell (56:22):
Yeah, I know, I miss my mom every day.
Darnah Mercieca (56:25):
Yeah, you're doing, you're doing amazing
things, so yeah, that really, um, thank you for saying that.
Erica Newbert Campbell (56:31):
that just about uh, all I want to do
is make my mom proud, so Ireally appreciate that you are.
Darnah Mercieca (56:38):
there is no doubt about that.
Erica Newbert Campbell (56:41):
And I really want to have a
conversation with Angelina Jolie, so call me in.
Oh my gosh, I do.
I want to hug her and be likethanks for saving my life.
Darnah Mercieca (56:52):
Yeah, there's some gratitude to be expressed
here.
Absolutely.
Thanks for listening.
Breasty, I'm going to keep thisshort.
If you loved this episode, ifyou know somebody that this
could really help, if you knowsomebody who needs to pick up a
copy of Erica's book, if youfeel like sharing this would
(57:13):
make an impact in someone's life, please grab the link to this
podcast episode.
Or, if you're watching it onYouTube, grab the link and send
it to somebody.
Send it to somebody, share iton social media, share it in a
Facebook group.
Just help somebody out todaywho may need to hear this.
(57:37):
I think, just like Erica said,pay it forward.
All right, breasty, I'll seeyou back here next week.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.