June 18, 2025 • 27 mins
If you ever find yourself in a fight for equity and opportunity, Texas-born Dr. Christine Drew is exactly who you’d want in your corner.
"I'm a fighter, I'm an advocate," she said. "The thing that will keep you going is the thing that breaks your heart."
For Drew, that "thing" was watching students with intellectual disabilities face unnecessary barriers. Instead of accepting the status quo, she turned frustration into action.
Now a Board-Certified Behavior Analyst and Assistant Professor in Auburn University's College of Education, Drew has been guiding students since 2019. By 2020, she became the Faculty Research Advisor for the EAGLES Program—a groundbreaking initiative that gives students with intellectual disabilities a true college experience.
“I sort of got going in the fall of 2020 and just never looked back,” Drew said.
Started in 2018, EAGLES (Education to Accomplish Growth in Life Experiences for Success) is one of only 300 programs nationwide that provides students with intellectual disabilities access to academics, clubs, health and wellness and social opportunities—the full breadth of university life.
"Auburn is an amazing university," Drew said. "EAGLES offers two and four year options. The students follow their own path of interest and can even earn food handlers’ licenses."
As Drew worked with EAGLES students, she noticed a major challenge: the transition to independent living. That’s why she teamed up with fellow special education advocate Kristin Lombardi to co-author Spectrum of Independence – a book designed to give parents practical tools for maximizing the independence of children with autism, intellectual disabilities, or other forms of neurodiversity.
"These parents have been fighting for their kids since day one," Drew said. "We want to give them resources to help their child thrive."
The practical book focuses on task analysis, breaking down daily lifestyle tasks into manageable micro steps, helping kids take ownership of their routines. Targeting children ages 8 to 11, Drew’s book emphasizes starting early—because building independence at home opens doors for education, employment and social opportunities later on.
"If a student arrives at college knowing how to shower, brush their teeth, make a snack and get to the bus stop, their world expands exponentially," said Drew.
Parents of neurodiverse students interested in applying for the EAGLES program can learn more at EAGLES Preview Days, scheduled for July 16 and September 16 this year.
Spectrum of Independence is available locally at Auburn Oil Co. Booksellers, on Publisher Guilford Press' website and on Amazon.
"I join the parents in the fight," Drew said. "The more parents who have this book, the more empowered they'll be—and that keeps me going."
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(00:04):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to theEverything Auburn podcast.
I'm Dale and that C-Money.
But okay.
Thats fine. I'm C-Money today.
I guess I didn't know that.
Yeah I just came out with thaton the spot.
People do call me Dale.
It's a nicknameI've had since college. C-Money.
I learned Dale this week.
Does anybody call you C-Money.?
You would be the firstto be the first I get, right?
(00:26):
I get Carté a lot.
I get that one a lot.
That's fancy. That's about it. Okay.
But welcome back.
Another podcast.
Another month, another month.
How awesome. Hey, it's summer.
It is. It's a gloomy summer.
It's a rainy, soggy day to day.
But it is quite awesomebeing here in summer.
It is. There's still a great vibeon campus.
(00:46):
Today is the first official day of campWar Eagle.
So there's a lot of, you know, incomingfreshmen on campus, them
and their parents.
And so a lot of, excitement.
Yeah, I thought they don't look old enoughto be students. Right.
I feel like they look likethey're in elementary school.
The older I get, the more and moreI realize how little I was
when I came to Auburn,that it certainly is true.
(01:08):
But here we are again.
We got another special guest,the Auburn family. Here we do.
Today we have Doctor Christine Drew.
Doctor Drew welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciatebeing able to meet with you all
and talk a little bit about my book.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you for joining us on our rinky dinklittle operation we got over here.
Hey, there are cameras.
I'm wearing a fancy headset.
I'm really I'm feeling it.
(01:29):
It's going great.
Hey, fake it til you make it.
That is the name of the game.
The life motto.
Well, if you don't mind, just tellthe people little bit about yourself.
Yeah, so I am Christine Drew.
I am from Texas originally,which if you meet anyone from Texas,
they will tell you immediately.
It's our favorite thing about ourselves.
Oh, yeah.
And so I lived in Texas until,got my undergrad and master's in Texas
(01:50):
and then went to Universityof Oregon and Eugene, Oregon for my PhD.
And then Auburn offered me a job,so I moved here.
I've never really been to Alabama before.
So I showed up in fall of 2019and got a time to move,
you know, across the country,you know, a place you've never been to.
(02:11):
I was, I did the thingmy my advisor will roll her eyes
when she hears this.
I did not finish my dissertationwhen I was supposed to.
And so I was really finishing itup in the summer, and I defended
my dissertation, had about a week,got on a plane, flew to Atlanta, started
teaching, like the week after. Wow.
(02:33):
So it was gracious.
It was a wild ride for sure.
And then Covid, you know,it was I honestly, I was like,
okay, I'm getting into it.
I was wearing business casual,I was doing and then, you know,
we all went home for 2 to 3 months.
You know, we just we all went home,and hung out in our houses.
(02:56):
And, you know, we we actually ended upbuying a house that summer.
And so we moved into our house in Opelika,and, that
we have the biggest TV,we have the nicest sound system.
We were not going anywhere.
We were like,we were going to set ourselves up.
We built the fire pit.
I have ten raisedbeds for my garden in the backyard.
(03:17):
We were like, we're here, we're set.
We don't need anything elseso small aside here.
If you will.
Me and my wife get married in 2019.
Covid happened.
We have very typicaljust get married tiny little apartment.
Covid happens and then we realizedhow small that apartment really was right.
And that's what we bought our house.
We about the same time as well.
(03:38):
And yeah it's too much.
We were like this is it was small,but like we weren't there 24 seven.
Yeah, we so my partner and I,we've been together for 12 years.
We've always lived in small places.
When we lived in Eugene,we lived in a 20 by 20
cottage with a loft.
Oh, fun.
Yeah.
So, you know, we had experiences like himcooking jalapenos in the morning
(04:02):
and that floatingup to the bed on the loft.
So my my, my, myslight burning sensation. Yeah.
I'm having a pepper spray experience.
Yeah.
First thing in the morning.
So, yeah, we've lived in small placesand we rented a place out in Little Texas.
And of course, like one of myfavorite stories about moving here is
we found it on Craigslistand I call,
(04:26):
I don't want to name drop,but the Kirk family,
if you know a little TexasKirk pine straw.
They're wonderful people.
And I calledhe called and left me message, back.
And he said, well, this is Lynn Kirk, and,I'm calling you about that house now.
It's a little house.
It's real little, and it's in the country.
(04:46):
And I was like, okay,so I call back, I'm like,
hey, I'm from Texas, actually,not Oregon, and I have killed a snake.
You know,before I lived in the country, like,
you're not going to bother me.
My partner, onthe other hand, is a city boy.
So we're gonna have to work on him.
And he's like, all right, and all right.
And so he says, it's real little.
And I told him about the cottageand he said, let's not that little.
(05:09):
And I was like, oh, okay. All right.
Wow. Yeah.
We're coming back to a placewhere sweet tea
and people who tell youabout little country houses live.
And so I was like,all right, we can do this.
We can live.
We can live in Alabama, I love it.
Well, you said you moved here in 2019,but you've been the Eagles Program
faculty research advisorsince 2020, correct?
(05:30):
It took me a minute.
You know,I had to gain and had to meet people.
Yeah.
It's, charm them,obviously with my stunning personality.
And so Iapproached, Doctor Betty Patton,
who was in charge of the Eagles program.
And, you know, first I said, hey,I think we have some opportunities
for preparation activitiesbetween high school and coming to college.
(05:51):
So I was already thinking in this lineof the book of preparing people
for this transition because it is likeyou're talking about Camp War Eagle.
It is a big transition.
Certainly you see the 12 year oldswalking around campus
and they're here as freshmenand you're like, okay, right.
Sure. Great.
Good for you.
But they're not always prepared, right?
We see them shopping at Publix and buying.
(06:14):
Yeah, things that don't make a meal.
And we've all been there, right?
We've all been thereand they're sometimes right.
A baguette and strawberries and Nutella.
That's a dinner somehow.
And so, you know, I was already thinkingin that vein of transition.
And then I also noted that,I thought something that was
missing from the program was sexualityand relationship education.
(06:36):
So I showed up and I was like,hey, here are my two ideas.
And Doctor Patton.
Thankfully, it was like, yes, to both.
Let's like, get that going.
And so, yeah, I sort of got got goingin the fall and just never looked back.
So we've been doing researchand the transition activities and sex ed
and parent training and staff training.
And so, yeah, we do a lot together.
(06:58):
And then before we get too farfor anybody doesn't know Eagle's program.
Yeah, absolutely.
What what it what is the Eagles program.
And you're in your own words,which is a great great question.
So lot.
Yeah.
So Eagles is one of about 300give or take programs in the United States
that offer a collegeor transition experience for students
with intellectual disability.
(07:21):
So, you know, depending on the program,they have different requirements
for attendance.
But, of those 300,only about 10% are residential.
So actually offer that full,you know, for good or worse,
dorm life experience.
Right.
So we I had that experience.
The dorms are much nicer now.
(07:41):
But then every time I see one, I was like,this is an apartment.
This is so apartment.
And I love that for them.
We had the sink and the tiny fridgeand the tiny microwave.
And that was your box?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a shared bathroom.
So anyway.
But they have to cleantheir own bathrooms.
I didn't have to clean my own bathroombecause we have,
so, you know, pros and cons.
But about 10% offer that opportunity.
(08:03):
And Eagles is one of those programs.
And so, you'll hear themcalled inclusive higher ed programs
or inclusivepost-secondary education programs.
And they can do a lot of different things.
Eagles offersthe full breadth of college experiences.
So, clubs, academics, health and wellness,you know, classes with
(08:25):
Eagles and in with,typically developing peers.
So yeah, they, they do it all.
And these programs, some of them aretwo years, some of them are four years.
Eagles has a two year optionand a four year option where you apply,
once you're done with the two yearsto get into the next two years.
So yeah,they're doing a lot of really great stuff.
(08:46):
That is a whole lot.
But it's so coolthat you get the full college experience,
and it's so sadthat there's it's hard to do that.
And that's a novel idea.
And it's not as high percentagethat do that.
But yeah, I'm proudthat Auburn's a place that does that. Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
And it's something thatevery every university that has a program
like this has chosenthat there's no requirements.
(09:10):
And we get into it a little bitin the book about the difference
between, quote 12or K to 21 transition, and college.
So you have rights Ida individualswith Disabilities Education
Act that entitlesyou to access and services for that.
That does not govern college.
(09:30):
So college is covered underthe five of section 504, the rehab act.
And so all you get incollege is accommodations.
And so, you know,there's lots of reasons for that.
But our, student population,you know, with intellectual disability
are invited onto campus and are includedin a really meaningful way.
I think,you know, people worry about
(09:52):
and I worry about that, too, of just,you know, turning into tokenism or
mascot, kind of like,oh, they're the manager of the football.
It's not like that.
The studentsfollow their own path of interest.
They have different concentration areas.
They can studyand they earn micro-credentials.
(10:12):
So food handlerslicenses, things like that.
And so they are constantlyexpanding the program.
I try to keep up as best I can, but,you know, I would I,
I think that they are doingsome fantastic things.
And so there's always something newon the horizon for them.
Yeah. Well, you just mentioned the book.
You co-wrotea book called Spectrum of Independence.
(10:35):
I did you write that?
I read this morning show.
I did you hear thattell you little bit about it?
I did do that.
It's wild when you see it in person.
Well, because it was a lot of typeB, type B
word documents back, and I'm going to hitthe microphone every time.
But you know, this, like back and forthand everything is in the cloud
or in these word docs.
(10:56):
And then to get it toyour house is a physical copy.
And yes, pretty crazy.
It is wild.
And, I actually got to sign some at a bookevent that I did,
so at Auburn Oil Company Booksellers.
And so I was that was wonderful.
I'm going to pitch them a little bit latertoo, but, but yeah, I really enjoyed it.
So, Yeah.
(11:17):
So I wrote a book,with my coauthor Kristen.
We actually met at a conference at Auburn,so I know, I know, I know,
and so my,Eagles was hosting a conference, subsea,
which, if I had thoughtI had, I would have studied up on what
that acronym means.
(11:39):
Southeastern post-secondary educationalliance.
You just pulled out of thin air.
I mean, it could be, I believe you.
Yeah, yeah, could afford us.
I know, I know, and it is, it'sit's all these inclusive higher
ed programs that are in the southeastern.
So we have a ton of them actually,in the southeastern region,
I wonder we're on the cutting edge.
(12:00):
They're great.
And, so we get together yearlyand you know, there's conference create,
we do presentations.
We do, they have a, college fairwhere families can come and see
what some of the college options are.
People set up tables.
So I met her there,and basically she's from New York.
And so we got togetherand we were talking about the challenges
(12:24):
that families face and that students facewith this transition to college.
Yeah.
And it'sand the thing that we kept coming back to
when we were thinking about this bookand writing is
these parents have fought for these kidssometimes before they were born.
(12:44):
Right?
When the scan comes back and says,your child has down syndrome,
or a blood test comes backand they have a genetic disorder,
or they have had that child,everyone has told them everything's fine,
they'll grow out of it.
Uhhuh.
And so these parents have been fightingand advocating and finding specialists,
(13:04):
finding therapists,finding the right medications,
finding the right schools, and changingschools.
Sitting in, we call them IEP meetings,meetings for individual education
programs, getting specialiststo come into the school, all these things
and getting them into college,finding out that these programs
exist, finding ways to pay for it,all these things.
(13:26):
And then they show up to campusand we say, okay, bye,
see you in P c see that Thanksgiving?
You know, we'll see you at Parent weekendbecause there's actually
an acclimation periodthat the Eagles program has built in
where parents are not allowedto come on to campus.
That's tough It's good.
It's good, but that's tough. It's tough.
And so we just are like, okay, trust uswith this precious
(13:49):
being that you have caredfor and fought for for 20
plus years sometimes.
And so we we came at the book with,a huge amount of empathy for that.
So saying, hey, parents,it's time to back yourself out of things,
but here's how to do itsystematically and not the Band-Aid rip.
(14:14):
Yeah, thatwhat it would be if you just showed up
and dropped your kid off for college.
So and a lot of it is about gainingindependence and learning
how to for both parent and student to.
Yeah it's yep we exist yeah exists.
And we again we talk a lot about thisthinking of life as this menu of options
(14:37):
and so wanting every personparticularly students with disabilities
children with disabilitiesto have the widest array of possibilities.
And so when you can shower yourself,the number of places
you can live expands exponentially.
When you can brush your teeth,when you can make your own snack,
(14:58):
when you can get yourself to the bus,your living situations,
your employment opportunities,your social opportunities.
Just expand widely.
And so this book, again,we started with college in mind,
and then we started writing,and then we started writing and outlining
and outlining and realizedthis is ten books actually.
(15:19):
You got a whole series.
Yeah. Yes.
I mean, basically if this one does reallywell, then we get to write a second book.
Yeah, that's how I keep thinking of like,you know, people are like,
oh, when it sells.
And I'm like, so kind ofthe point of the sales are that then
we get to write book two,and then we get to write book three.
And then because so many parents,when I tell them about this book,
they say, I could have used thisten years ago, I wish I had this ten.
(15:42):
I still buy it and I'll still use it, butI really could have used this on my kid
because this is aimed towards 8 to 11.
Now, that doesn't meanthat you can't use it with an older person
with disabilities or even the younger one,but it's this idea that, you know,
the earlier you start, if you are brushingyour child's teeth until they're 13,
then they have missed6 to 7 years of independent practice
(16:04):
opportunities.
If you're brushing their teethtill they're 18,
they've missed out on all these years.
And so, our idea is that we want towe are going to back all the way down to 8
to 11,and teach them independence in the home,
because that is what parents can control.
That's what parents have the highest levelof control over versus like, you know,
(16:26):
and then we'll expand into the communityand then expand into, education,
higher education, independent living.
If they let us write bookstwo through ten, we'll see.
We'll see how this one does.
But we're hopeful. Yeah.
And it's a lot of stuff.
Imagine that, you know, that's donethere is also what's done
here at Auburn with the Eagle programand students here on campus.
(16:47):
Yes. And teaching. And,I don't know,
fulfilling that kind of independence. Yes.
And the other thingthat I think a lot of our parents
don't understandwhen they're, assessing their child's
readiness, right, is they will eitherbecause they've been through
(17:08):
a lot of these assessmentswhere you just talk feels like you talk
a bunch of crap about your kid,because the point of the assessment is to
find out what your kid can and can't do.
And for our students, a lot of timesit's what they can't do that
becomes the focus.
And so, you know, we are kind of thinkingin the vein of here's
(17:30):
what they can do,here's what we can build on.
But yeah, our parents come to usand they say,
oh, my kid is independent in this area.
I will say, that's amazing.
And then they get to campusand we find out that they were independent
because Wednesday nightsand Friday nights
and Sunday nights were shower nights.
(17:52):
And the routine went, you know,mom and dad and family finished dinner.
Everybody sitting around,one of the parents would go,
hey, it's Wednesday, hey, it's Friday.
And that would prompt the young adultto go and take their shower, right.
And so then the parents are like,they're they're independent.
They they go to the bathroom, they washtheir hair, they wash their body.
(18:14):
And not realizing how big of a rolethat little it seems little.
Hey, it's Wednesday.
It's time to take a shower.
Plays in that routine. You know,we have a parent
who, you know, talked about how she her,you know,
she marked down on our questionnaire,independent taking medications.
But then when we got into it,do they know what the medication is?
(18:37):
And they know why they take it?
Do they know what happensif they stop taking the medication
and the parent was like, I didn'tthink about that until you brought it up.
And in her mind,she was like, oh, he was independent
because I put his medicinenext to his orange juice,
and he independently picked it upand put it in his mouth.
But at college, there's no orange juice.
There's there's no of pills.
(18:58):
You have to goand get them out of the bottle.
This is something I've talked about a lot.
Several people like you learnedsome of things at college, right.
And a lot of people think aboutcollege is like, I'm learning my career
and like, yeah,that's a thing that you do potentially.
But it's you learnhow to be a person, right.
And for so many people, regardlessof your situation, there's so many people
(19:18):
that's their first timeto be an independent person.
Yeah.
And I think more so than, like,the classes and learning a trade
or learning a skill is important,but learning to be a person in college,
that's what I learned more.
I mean, I learned a lot,but that was the biggest thing I learned.
The other thing Ididn't want to ask for, we, you know,
we closed on time here.
(19:39):
It's my favorite thing to ask. Okay.
It's one of the most open ended questionsthere is. Oh, goodness.
But, is, you know, it's very clearyour passion, right?
And your love of what you doand why you do it.
I'm curious as to where that came from.
And what is it that has givenyou such a passion to.
I mean, it's it's it's a lot of work.
(20:01):
Yeah, yeah. It's okay.
So it's it's complicated.
But when I went to graduate school,we had a lecture.
Recorded lecture, from Rob Horner,who is a huge name in my area of research.
And he talked about findingdependent variables,
(20:22):
which are outcomes, outcomesthat break your heart.
And that got to me because I was like,because the thing is, you know, again
it's an upward climbwhen you're writing the grant
or you're writing the bookor you're teaching
the class, it's an uphill kind of slog.
(20:43):
And he was like, that will keep you going.
It's the thingthat, that, that breaks your heart.
You will be inspired.
You will keep moving forward toward that.
And my version of that,is what drives me
are things that make me really angry.
Okay. Yeah.
So I get I'm a fighter,I get mad about stuff.
(21:05):
And so something that makes me reallyangry is exclusion.
Exclusion, lack of support.
We don't have to do that.
So we're not gonna, phraseslike in education,
we owe them the forward of education,not the Cadillac of education.
And you'll hear that,in special education.
(21:26):
Yeah. Not from teachers. Yeah.
Not from teachers.
But, you know, this ideathat we just don't owe people
the thing that will help them lead thebest life, and that makes me really mad.
And so.
Yeah.
So I'm a fighter, so I, I'm an advocate.
I, you know, go into meetingswith school districts and I,
you know, fight.
(21:47):
Yeah.
I join the parents in the fight.
And so that's somethingthat, you know, again, Auburn
the Eagles program, I've advocatedfor different things being included.
Right.
I showed up, I was like,I think we need these things.
And so that's the thing that keepsme going is this idea of the more parents
(22:07):
who have this book more empowered,they are to teach their child at home
the skills that the school, you know,the school can't teach showering.
Yeah, right.
The school can't teach the morning routinebecause they're not at your house.
And they can teach your kidto put their name on their paper.
No, no no no Shane is the kid would saybut that skill,
(22:31):
you know, when was the last timeyou put your name at the top of a paper
versus the last time youbrush your teeth,
which I'm really hoping was today.
It was.
It was at least this week.
Okay, perfect. Great.
We're on the right track.
Those skills go forever.
Your kid may never practice a skillthey learned in school.
Some of them, they will,but they may never sit in a,
(22:52):
classroom in the classic way.
But they will need to brush their teeth.
They will need to take a shower.
They will need to make themselves a snack.
They will need to, you know, transportthemselves public transportation or Uber,
those kinds of things.
You know, we want parents to be ableto to feel empowered to teach that at home
and give these students the broadest setof circumstances that we can.
(23:14):
Well, I'm, I'mvery thankful that there's there
there are people out there to fight.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind ofYep. And and not don't forget about us,
you know.
Well in our.
And that's the advice I would givethe parents when I was teaching.
Because as a teacher,you can only advocate so much.
Right?
There's the, the backlash that, you know,I don't want to say backlash,
but you'll definitely get,pushback from admin or from,
(23:37):
you know, different people.
And so I wouldif there was a big enough problem,
I would call the parents and I would say,listen, you are you have
so much more power than you realize.
If you call, they will take care of it.
I have been advocate.
Here's what I have done to advocate.
And then, you know, usually that parentwas the one that got the thing done.
So I'm so appreciative of the parentsthat I worked with when I was teaching.
(24:01):
Well,as we're kind of coming up here on time,
I want to give you a chance, SpectrumIndependence, your book,
best places to get that, read it,to enjoy it, to learn from it.
Yes. Auburn Oil Company, booksellershas they are stocking it for me,
which is so kind of them.
Right.
They have a local author sectionin the store, which I love.
(24:22):
So they have that for us.
And then, of course,you can always buy it.
Was published by Guilford.
So Guilford's website and then on Amazon,so that those are the places
and, you know, I'm really appreciativeof all the support that we've gotten.
And then the Eagles program here. Yes.
That's the best wayto kind of get more information or hear
(24:43):
from here from you or your,your compatriots, my, my buddies.
So they havea great social media presence.
So they have, an Instagram and a Facebook.
And then their website is a subSkyy slash Eagles.
And then they host twice yearlypreview days.
So these are days where families can comeand learn about the program.
(25:07):
Sometimes I speak with them.
I'm more involved in the interview processand Camp War Eagle, so I'll be at Camp
War Eagle with our Eagle students,doing a parent training.
So it's really exciting.
But the preview days, they have onein the summer that's virtual.
So I think that one you're more likelybe able to register for that.
And so this year it's July 16thand the fall one is in person.
(25:28):
And that one is Friday, September 16th.
You definitely want to registerfor that ahead of time.
It fills up every year.
It is the Eagles program.
As we all know,Auburn is an amazing university.
The Eagles program is very competitiveto get into.
So, you know, 70 applicants for ten spotskind of numbers.
(25:50):
So again, if familieswant to learn about the program
and kind of thinkabout getting their student prepared,
the preview days are a great wayto just see campus, hear
about the program,think about ways they can start planning.
And then, you know,if they have any questions.
I'm here as well.
But yeah, Doctor Patton is amazing.
Doctor.
(26:10):
Emory Wilson,I'm just got her PhD from Auburn as well.
And so she's the assistant director.
Doctor Patton's the director,and they're wonderful.
Excellent sources of information.
Cool. Well, wonderful. Well, thank you.
And thank you for all the workyou and your colleagues do.
And, the wonderful Eagles program.
And thank you for fighting.
Hey, look, I would do it for free.
(26:32):
I'm glad there are people that.
Well, yeah, and we appreciate it.
And, Will,thank you for listening, to the podcast.
We'll be back next month with anotherwonderful guest here in the studio.
And we're looking forward to it.
But if you liked what you hear,you liked enjoying us talk.
If you want to see our faces,we're on YouTube.
You want to listen to us?
We're on everywhere.
(26:52):
You get podcast. We got.
I think this is ten of them going backlast few months.
We got so many cool people on here.
Please go listen to them.
Are you listed as Simoneand all of them or just.
I might have to make the change.
We might have to do that. Yeah.
I mean, it might have to have.
I might need to change. Right?
I've started.
So I'm afraid you have to.
I'm afraid you have to.
I should have thought about that.
(27:12):
But I've well, find fine about choices.
Choices, consequences. I made one tonight.
Yeah, and I have to pay the consequences.
So I appreciate that. You're welcome.
But, we'll see you again next month.
So, War Eagle, War Eagle, War Eagle.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to theEverything Auburn podcast.
I'm Dale and that C-Money.
But okay.
Thats fine. I'm C-Money today.
I guess I didn't know that.
Yeah I just came out with thaton the spot.
People do call me Dale.
It's a nicknameI've had since college. C-Money.
I learned Dale this week.
Does anybody call you C-Money.?
You would be the firstto be the first I get, right?
(00:26):
I get Carté a lot.
I get that one a lot.
That's fancy. That's about it. Okay.
But welcome back.
Another podcast.
Another month, another month.
How awesome. Hey, it's summer.
It is. It's a gloomy summer.
It's a rainy, soggy day to day.
But it is quite awesomebeing here in summer.
It is. There's still a great vibeon campus.
(00:46):
Today is the first official day of campWar Eagle.
So there's a lot of, you know, incomingfreshmen on campus, them
and their parents.
And so a lot of, excitement.
Yeah, I thought they don't look old enoughto be students. Right.
I feel like they look likethey're in elementary school.
The older I get, the more and moreI realize how little I was
when I came to Auburn,that it certainly is true.
(01:08):
But here we are again.
We got another special guest,the Auburn family. Here we do.
Today we have Doctor Christine Drew.
Doctor Drew welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciatebeing able to meet with you all
and talk a little bit about my book.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you for joining us on our rinky dinklittle operation we got over here.
Hey, there are cameras.
I'm wearing a fancy headset.
I'm really I'm feeling it.
(01:29):
It's going great.
Hey, fake it til you make it.
That is the name of the game.
The life motto.
Well, if you don't mind, just tellthe people little bit about yourself.
Yeah, so I am Christine Drew.
I am from Texas originally,which if you meet anyone from Texas,
they will tell you immediately.
It's our favorite thing about ourselves.
Oh, yeah.
And so I lived in Texas until,got my undergrad and master's in Texas
(01:50):
and then went to Universityof Oregon and Eugene, Oregon for my PhD.
And then Auburn offered me a job,so I moved here.
I've never really been to Alabama before.
So I showed up in fall of 2019and got a time to move,
you know, across the country,you know, a place you've never been to.
(02:11):
I was, I did the thingmy my advisor will roll her eyes
when she hears this.
I did not finish my dissertationwhen I was supposed to.
And so I was really finishing itup in the summer, and I defended
my dissertation, had about a week,got on a plane, flew to Atlanta, started
teaching, like the week after. Wow.
(02:33):
So it was gracious.
It was a wild ride for sure.
And then Covid, you know,it was I honestly, I was like,
okay, I'm getting into it.
I was wearing business casual,I was doing and then, you know,
we all went home for 2 to 3 months.
You know, we just we all went home,and hung out in our houses.
(02:56):
And, you know, we we actually ended upbuying a house that summer.
And so we moved into our house in Opelika,and, that
we have the biggest TV,we have the nicest sound system.
We were not going anywhere.
We were like,we were going to set ourselves up.
We built the fire pit.
I have ten raisedbeds for my garden in the backyard.
(03:17):
We were like, we're here, we're set.
We don't need anything elseso small aside here.
If you will.
Me and my wife get married in 2019.
Covid happened.
We have very typicaljust get married tiny little apartment.
Covid happens and then we realizedhow small that apartment really was right.
And that's what we bought our house.
We about the same time as well.
(03:38):
And yeah it's too much.
We were like this is it was small,but like we weren't there 24 seven.
Yeah, we so my partner and I,we've been together for 12 years.
We've always lived in small places.
When we lived in Eugene,we lived in a 20 by 20
cottage with a loft.
Oh, fun.
Yeah.
So, you know, we had experiences like himcooking jalapenos in the morning
(04:02):
and that floatingup to the bed on the loft.
So my my, my, myslight burning sensation. Yeah.
I'm having a pepper spray experience.
Yeah.
First thing in the morning.
So, yeah, we've lived in small placesand we rented a place out in Little Texas.
And of course, like one of myfavorite stories about moving here is
we found it on Craigslistand I call,
(04:26):
I don't want to name drop,but the Kirk family,
if you know a little TexasKirk pine straw.
They're wonderful people.
And I calledhe called and left me message, back.
And he said, well, this is Lynn Kirk, and,I'm calling you about that house now.
It's a little house.
It's real little, and it's in the country.
(04:46):
And I was like, okay,so I call back, I'm like,
hey, I'm from Texas, actually,not Oregon, and I have killed a snake.
You know,before I lived in the country, like,
you're not going to bother me.
My partner, onthe other hand, is a city boy.
So we're gonna have to work on him.
And he's like, all right, and all right.
And so he says, it's real little.
And I told him about the cottageand he said, let's not that little.
(05:09):
And I was like, oh, okay. All right.
Wow. Yeah.
We're coming back to a placewhere sweet tea
and people who tell youabout little country houses live.
And so I was like,all right, we can do this.
We can live.
We can live in Alabama, I love it.
Well, you said you moved here in 2019,but you've been the Eagles Program
faculty research advisorsince 2020, correct?
(05:30):
It took me a minute.
You know,I had to gain and had to meet people.
Yeah.
It's, charm them,obviously with my stunning personality.
And so Iapproached, Doctor Betty Patton,
who was in charge of the Eagles program.
And, you know, first I said, hey,I think we have some opportunities
for preparation activitiesbetween high school and coming to college.
(05:51):
So I was already thinking in this lineof the book of preparing people
for this transition because it is likeyou're talking about Camp War Eagle.
It is a big transition.
Certainly you see the 12 year oldswalking around campus
and they're here as freshmenand you're like, okay, right.
Sure. Great.
Good for you.
But they're not always prepared, right?
We see them shopping at Publix and buying.
(06:14):
Yeah, things that don't make a meal.
And we've all been there, right?
We've all been thereand they're sometimes right.
A baguette and strawberries and Nutella.
That's a dinner somehow.
And so, you know, I was already thinkingin that vein of transition.
And then I also noted that,I thought something that was
missing from the program was sexualityand relationship education.
(06:36):
So I showed up and I was like,hey, here are my two ideas.
And Doctor Patton.
Thankfully, it was like, yes, to both.
Let's like, get that going.
And so, yeah, I sort of got got goingin the fall and just never looked back.
So we've been doing researchand the transition activities and sex ed
and parent training and staff training.
And so, yeah, we do a lot together.
(06:58):
And then before we get too farfor anybody doesn't know Eagle's program.
Yeah, absolutely.
What what it what is the Eagles program.
And you're in your own words,which is a great great question.
So lot.
Yeah.
So Eagles is one of about 300give or take programs in the United States
that offer a collegeor transition experience for students
with intellectual disability.
(07:21):
So, you know, depending on the program,they have different requirements
for attendance.
But, of those 300,only about 10% are residential.
So actually offer that full,you know, for good or worse,
dorm life experience.
Right.
So we I had that experience.
The dorms are much nicer now.
(07:41):
But then every time I see one, I was like,this is an apartment.
This is so apartment.
And I love that for them.
We had the sink and the tiny fridgeand the tiny microwave.
And that was your box?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a shared bathroom.
So anyway.
But they have to cleantheir own bathrooms.
I didn't have to clean my own bathroombecause we have,
so, you know, pros and cons.
But about 10% offer that opportunity.
(08:03):
And Eagles is one of those programs.
And so, you'll hear themcalled inclusive higher ed programs
or inclusivepost-secondary education programs.
And they can do a lot of different things.
Eagles offersthe full breadth of college experiences.
So, clubs, academics, health and wellness,you know, classes with
(08:25):
Eagles and in with,typically developing peers.
So yeah, they, they do it all.
And these programs, some of them aretwo years, some of them are four years.
Eagles has a two year optionand a four year option where you apply,
once you're done with the two yearsto get into the next two years.
So yeah,they're doing a lot of really great stuff.
(08:46):
That is a whole lot.
But it's so coolthat you get the full college experience,
and it's so sadthat there's it's hard to do that.
And that's a novel idea.
And it's not as high percentagethat do that.
But yeah, I'm proudthat Auburn's a place that does that. Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
And it's something thatevery every university that has a program
like this has chosenthat there's no requirements.
(09:10):
And we get into it a little bitin the book about the difference
between, quote 12or K to 21 transition, and college.
So you have rights Ida individualswith Disabilities Education
Act that entitlesyou to access and services for that.
That does not govern college.
(09:30):
So college is covered underthe five of section 504, the rehab act.
And so all you get incollege is accommodations.
And so, you know,there's lots of reasons for that.
But our, student population,you know, with intellectual disability
are invited onto campus and are includedin a really meaningful way.
I think,you know, people worry about
(09:52):
and I worry about that, too, of just,you know, turning into tokenism or
mascot, kind of like,oh, they're the manager of the football.
It's not like that.
The studentsfollow their own path of interest.
They have different concentration areas.
They can studyand they earn micro-credentials.
(10:12):
So food handlerslicenses, things like that.
And so they are constantlyexpanding the program.
I try to keep up as best I can, but,you know, I would I,
I think that they are doingsome fantastic things.
And so there's always something newon the horizon for them.
Yeah. Well, you just mentioned the book.
You co-wrotea book called Spectrum of Independence.
(10:35):
I did you write that?
I read this morning show.
I did you hear thattell you little bit about it?
I did do that.
It's wild when you see it in person.
Well, because it was a lot of typeB, type B
word documents back, and I'm going to hitthe microphone every time.
But you know, this, like back and forthand everything is in the cloud
or in these word docs.
(10:56):
And then to get it toyour house is a physical copy.
And yes, pretty crazy.
It is wild.
And, I actually got to sign some at a bookevent that I did,
so at Auburn Oil Company Booksellers.
And so I was that was wonderful.
I'm going to pitch them a little bit latertoo, but, but yeah, I really enjoyed it.
So, Yeah.
(11:17):
So I wrote a book,with my coauthor Kristen.
We actually met at a conference at Auburn,so I know, I know, I know,
and so my,Eagles was hosting a conference, subsea,
which, if I had thoughtI had, I would have studied up on what
that acronym means.
(11:39):
Southeastern post-secondary educationalliance.
You just pulled out of thin air.
I mean, it could be, I believe you.
Yeah, yeah, could afford us.
I know, I know, and it is, it'sit's all these inclusive higher
ed programs that are in the southeastern.
So we have a ton of them actually,in the southeastern region,
I wonder we're on the cutting edge.
(12:00):
They're great.
And, so we get together yearlyand you know, there's conference create,
we do presentations.
We do, they have a, college fairwhere families can come and see
what some of the college options are.
People set up tables.
So I met her there,and basically she's from New York.
And so we got togetherand we were talking about the challenges
(12:24):
that families face and that students facewith this transition to college.
Yeah.
And it'sand the thing that we kept coming back to
when we were thinking about this bookand writing is
these parents have fought for these kidssometimes before they were born.
(12:44):
Right?
When the scan comes back and says,your child has down syndrome,
or a blood test comes backand they have a genetic disorder,
or they have had that child,everyone has told them everything's fine,
they'll grow out of it.
Uhhuh.
And so these parents have been fightingand advocating and finding specialists,
(13:04):
finding therapists,finding the right medications,
finding the right schools, and changingschools.
Sitting in, we call them IEP meetings,meetings for individual education
programs, getting specialiststo come into the school, all these things
and getting them into college,finding out that these programs
exist, finding ways to pay for it,all these things.
(13:26):
And then they show up to campusand we say, okay, bye,
see you in P c see that Thanksgiving?
You know, we'll see you at Parent weekendbecause there's actually
an acclimation periodthat the Eagles program has built in
where parents are not allowedto come on to campus.
That's tough It's good.
It's good, but that's tough. It's tough.
And so we just are like, okay, trust uswith this precious
(13:49):
being that you have caredfor and fought for for 20
plus years sometimes.
And so we we came at the book with,a huge amount of empathy for that.
So saying, hey, parents,it's time to back yourself out of things,
but here's how to do itsystematically and not the Band-Aid rip.
(14:14):
Yeah, thatwhat it would be if you just showed up
and dropped your kid off for college.
So and a lot of it is about gainingindependence and learning
how to for both parent and student to.
Yeah it's yep we exist yeah exists.
And we again we talk a lot about thisthinking of life as this menu of options
(14:37):
and so wanting every personparticularly students with disabilities
children with disabilitiesto have the widest array of possibilities.
And so when you can shower yourself,the number of places
you can live expands exponentially.
When you can brush your teeth,when you can make your own snack,
(14:58):
when you can get yourself to the bus,your living situations,
your employment opportunities,your social opportunities.
Just expand widely.
And so this book, again,we started with college in mind,
and then we started writing,and then we started writing and outlining
and outlining and realizedthis is ten books actually.
(15:19):
You got a whole series.
Yeah. Yes.
I mean, basically if this one does reallywell, then we get to write a second book.
Yeah, that's how I keep thinking of like,you know, people are like,
oh, when it sells.
And I'm like, so kind ofthe point of the sales are that then
we get to write book two,and then we get to write book three.
And then because so many parents,when I tell them about this book,
they say, I could have used thisten years ago, I wish I had this ten.
(15:42):
I still buy it and I'll still use it, butI really could have used this on my kid
because this is aimed towards 8 to 11.
Now, that doesn't meanthat you can't use it with an older person
with disabilities or even the younger one,but it's this idea that, you know,
the earlier you start, if you are brushingyour child's teeth until they're 13,
then they have missed6 to 7 years of independent practice
(16:04):
opportunities.
If you're brushing their teethtill they're 18,
they've missed out on all these years.
And so, our idea is that we want towe are going to back all the way down to 8
to 11,and teach them independence in the home,
because that is what parents can control.
That's what parents have the highest levelof control over versus like, you know,
(16:26):
and then we'll expand into the communityand then expand into, education,
higher education, independent living.
If they let us write bookstwo through ten, we'll see.
We'll see how this one does.
But we're hopeful. Yeah.
And it's a lot of stuff.
Imagine that, you know, that's donethere is also what's done
here at Auburn with the Eagle programand students here on campus.
(16:47):
Yes. And teaching. And,I don't know,
fulfilling that kind of independence. Yes.
And the other thingthat I think a lot of our parents
don't understandwhen they're, assessing their child's
readiness, right, is they will eitherbecause they've been through
(17:08):
a lot of these assessmentswhere you just talk feels like you talk
a bunch of crap about your kid,because the point of the assessment is to
find out what your kid can and can't do.
And for our students, a lot of timesit's what they can't do that
becomes the focus.
And so, you know, we are kind of thinkingin the vein of here's
(17:30):
what they can do,here's what we can build on.
But yeah, our parents come to usand they say,
oh, my kid is independent in this area.
I will say, that's amazing.
And then they get to campusand we find out that they were independent
because Wednesday nightsand Friday nights
and Sunday nights were shower nights.
(17:52):
And the routine went, you know,mom and dad and family finished dinner.
Everybody sitting around,one of the parents would go,
hey, it's Wednesday, hey, it's Friday.
And that would prompt the young adultto go and take their shower, right.
And so then the parents are like,they're they're independent.
They they go to the bathroom, they washtheir hair, they wash their body.
(18:14):
And not realizing how big of a rolethat little it seems little.
Hey, it's Wednesday.
It's time to take a shower.
Plays in that routine. You know,we have a parent
who, you know, talked about how she her,you know,
she marked down on our questionnaire,independent taking medications.
But then when we got into it,do they know what the medication is?
(18:37):
And they know why they take it?
Do they know what happensif they stop taking the medication
and the parent was like, I didn'tthink about that until you brought it up.
And in her mind,she was like, oh, he was independent
because I put his medicinenext to his orange juice,
and he independently picked it upand put it in his mouth.
But at college, there's no orange juice.
There's there's no of pills.
(18:58):
You have to goand get them out of the bottle.
This is something I've talked about a lot.
Several people like you learnedsome of things at college, right.
And a lot of people think aboutcollege is like, I'm learning my career
and like, yeah,that's a thing that you do potentially.
But it's you learnhow to be a person, right.
And for so many people, regardlessof your situation, there's so many people
(19:18):
that's their first timeto be an independent person.
Yeah.
And I think more so than, like,the classes and learning a trade
or learning a skill is important,but learning to be a person in college,
that's what I learned more.
I mean, I learned a lot,but that was the biggest thing I learned.
The other thing Ididn't want to ask for, we, you know,
we closed on time here.
(19:39):
It's my favorite thing to ask. Okay.
It's one of the most open ended questionsthere is. Oh, goodness.
But, is, you know, it's very clearyour passion, right?
And your love of what you doand why you do it.
I'm curious as to where that came from.
And what is it that has givenyou such a passion to.
I mean, it's it's it's a lot of work.
(20:01):
Yeah, yeah. It's okay.
So it's it's complicated.
But when I went to graduate school,we had a lecture.
Recorded lecture, from Rob Horner,who is a huge name in my area of research.
And he talked about findingdependent variables,
(20:22):
which are outcomes, outcomesthat break your heart.
And that got to me because I was like,because the thing is, you know, again
it's an upward climbwhen you're writing the grant
or you're writing the bookor you're teaching
the class, it's an uphill kind of slog.
(20:43):
And he was like, that will keep you going.
It's the thingthat, that, that breaks your heart.
You will be inspired.
You will keep moving forward toward that.
And my version of that,is what drives me
are things that make me really angry.
Okay. Yeah.
So I get I'm a fighter,I get mad about stuff.
(21:05):
And so something that makes me reallyangry is exclusion.
Exclusion, lack of support.
We don't have to do that.
So we're not gonna, phraseslike in education,
we owe them the forward of education,not the Cadillac of education.
And you'll hear that,in special education.
(21:26):
Yeah. Not from teachers. Yeah.
Not from teachers.
But, you know, this ideathat we just don't owe people
the thing that will help them lead thebest life, and that makes me really mad.
And so.
Yeah.
So I'm a fighter, so I, I'm an advocate.
I, you know, go into meetingswith school districts and I,
you know, fight.
(21:47):
Yeah.
I join the parents in the fight.
And so that's somethingthat, you know, again, Auburn
the Eagles program, I've advocatedfor different things being included.
Right.
I showed up, I was like,I think we need these things.
And so that's the thing that keepsme going is this idea of the more parents
(22:07):
who have this book more empowered,they are to teach their child at home
the skills that the school, you know,the school can't teach showering.
Yeah, right.
The school can't teach the morning routinebecause they're not at your house.
And they can teach your kidto put their name on their paper.
No, no no no Shane is the kid would saybut that skill,
(22:31):
you know, when was the last timeyou put your name at the top of a paper
versus the last time youbrush your teeth,
which I'm really hoping was today.
It was.
It was at least this week.
Okay, perfect. Great.
We're on the right track.
Those skills go forever.
Your kid may never practice a skillthey learned in school.
Some of them, they will,but they may never sit in a,
(22:52):
classroom in the classic way.
But they will need to brush their teeth.
They will need to take a shower.
They will need to make themselves a snack.
They will need to, you know, transportthemselves public transportation or Uber,
those kinds of things.
You know, we want parents to be ableto to feel empowered to teach that at home
and give these students the broadest setof circumstances that we can.
(23:14):
Well, I'm, I'mvery thankful that there's there
there are people out there to fight.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind ofYep. And and not don't forget about us,
you know.
Well in our.
And that's the advice I would givethe parents when I was teaching.
Because as a teacher,you can only advocate so much.
Right?
There's the, the backlash that, you know,I don't want to say backlash,
but you'll definitely get,pushback from admin or from,
(23:37):
you know, different people.
And so I wouldif there was a big enough problem,
I would call the parents and I would say,listen, you are you have
so much more power than you realize.
If you call, they will take care of it.
I have been advocate.
Here's what I have done to advocate.
And then, you know, usually that parentwas the one that got the thing done.
So I'm so appreciative of the parentsthat I worked with when I was teaching.
(24:01):
Well,as we're kind of coming up here on time,
I want to give you a chance, SpectrumIndependence, your book,
best places to get that, read it,to enjoy it, to learn from it.
Yes. Auburn Oil Company, booksellershas they are stocking it for me,
which is so kind of them.
Right.
They have a local author sectionin the store, which I love.
(24:22):
So they have that for us.
And then, of course,you can always buy it.
Was published by Guilford.
So Guilford's website and then on Amazon,so that those are the places
and, you know, I'm really appreciativeof all the support that we've gotten.
And then the Eagles program here. Yes.
That's the best wayto kind of get more information or hear
(24:43):
from here from you or your,your compatriots, my, my buddies.
So they havea great social media presence.
So they have, an Instagram and a Facebook.
And then their website is a subSkyy slash Eagles.
And then they host twice yearlypreview days.
So these are days where families can comeand learn about the program.
(25:07):
Sometimes I speak with them.
I'm more involved in the interview processand Camp War Eagle, so I'll be at Camp
War Eagle with our Eagle students,doing a parent training.
So it's really exciting.
But the preview days, they have onein the summer that's virtual.
So I think that one you're more likelybe able to register for that.
And so this year it's July 16thand the fall one is in person.
(25:28):
And that one is Friday, September 16th.
You definitely want to registerfor that ahead of time.
It fills up every year.
It is the Eagles program.
As we all know,Auburn is an amazing university.
The Eagles program is very competitiveto get into.
So, you know, 70 applicants for ten spotskind of numbers.
(25:50):
So again, if familieswant to learn about the program
and kind of thinkabout getting their student prepared,
the preview days are a great wayto just see campus, hear
about the program,think about ways they can start planning.
And then, you know,if they have any questions.
I'm here as well.
But yeah, Doctor Patton is amazing.
Doctor.
(26:10):
Emory Wilson,I'm just got her PhD from Auburn as well.
And so she's the assistant director.
Doctor Patton's the director,and they're wonderful.
Excellent sources of information.
Cool. Well, wonderful. Well, thank you.
And thank you for all the workyou and your colleagues do.
And, the wonderful Eagles program.
And thank you for fighting.
Hey, look, I would do it for free.
(26:32):
I'm glad there are people that.
Well, yeah, and we appreciate it.
And, Will,thank you for listening, to the podcast.
We'll be back next month with anotherwonderful guest here in the studio.
And we're looking forward to it.
But if you liked what you hear,you liked enjoying us talk.
If you want to see our faces,we're on YouTube.
You want to listen to us?
We're on everywhere.
(26:52):
You get podcast. We got.
I think this is ten of them going backlast few months.
We got so many cool people on here.
Please go listen to them.
Are you listed as Simoneand all of them or just.
I might have to make the change.
We might have to do that. Yeah.
I mean, it might have to have.
I might need to change. Right?
I've started.
So I'm afraid you have to.
I'm afraid you have to.
I should have thought about that.
(27:12):
But I've well, find fine about choices.
Choices, consequences. I made one tonight.
Yeah, and I have to pay the consequences.
So I appreciate that. You're welcome.
But, we'll see you again next month.
So, War Eagle, War Eagle, War Eagle.
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