Why Most Podcasts Stall: Consistency, Completion Rate, Better Packaging

Episode Transcript
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Blythe Brumleve Milliga (00:37):
Blythe, welcome into another episode of
everything is logistics, apodcast for the thinkers and
afraid. I'm your host, BlytheMilligan, and we are presented
by SPI logistics, and we arelive in Orlando, Florida for our
third pod fest conferences.
Happens every year in the cityof Orlando, as well as a

(01:00):
traveling tour that podcastdoes. And I am joined for the
first time in show history by myhusband, fodder Milligan, also a
longtime podcaster, and we'regoing to be talking about some
of the podcast strategies thatwe have learned at this year's
podcast, and how you can takethese lessons and turn them into
your own creative content oryour own company's podcast. And

(01:22):
so let's just go ahead and kickthings off with our first topic
of overall conference takeaways.
What's sort of the biggesttakeaway that you have from this
event?

Unknown (01:34):
Can I first start off by saying, Wow, such an honor to
be on everything is logistics.
For the first time, my debutappearance, I am honored,
flabbergasted and deeplyappreciative of your listeners
lending me their ears. Hi, I'mthe husband. You may have heard
of me a couple times. Okay, allright. Jokes aside. Okay, my big

(01:54):
takeaway, my most immediatetakeaway, and just feeling
coming off of pod fest, weattended for two days. We
decided to cut our trip short.
But we attended a lot of panels,spoke a lot, so I feel confident

(02:16):
in saying that my biggesttakeaway is that podcasting is
still going to be around for along time. I think that that
point is punctuated based on twovery significant talks that we
attended. The keynote with Jamescritlin, the editor for pod
news, as well as the openingkeynote ceremony with Pat Flynn,

(02:38):
you know, hyper successfulpodcaster. It's been podcasting
a long time blogging. He startedoff with blogging, podcasting.
The name of his podcast, which

Blythe Brumleve Milligan (02:49):
smart, passive and Smart Passive, or
income, Smart Passive, as

Unknown (02:51):
well as a very successful Pokemon YouTube
channel as well. I think, basedon those two keynotes, you know,
learning about where the historyof podcasting, where we've been,
where we're at, where we'regoing. We're in critlands
Opening Ceremony, as well asseeing someone like Pat Flynn
still out here. You know,adapting to how podcast has

(03:12):
evolved from being a strictlyaudio thing to now video. You
know, it's kind of synonymous.
You know, when you saypodcasting, people think not
just audio, but also YouTube. Soto see, like, his success and
how he's pivoted into a wholenew lane, and, you know, he's
incorporating strategies thathe's learned from his time as a,
you know, audio podcaster intoYouTube, I think I'm feeling,
I'm feeling confident, and wherepodcasting is going in terms of

(03:36):
the industry that you knowsomething like Apple podcast is
still, like the number onepodcast app, a choice for a lot
of folks. It gives me a lot ofhope in terms of the traditional
audio sense, as well as, like,this new age video strategy.

Yeah, I definitely echo the the Pat
Flynn sentiment, because assomeone who started blogging in
2007 it's one of those momentswhere you can watch another
creator because, because PatFlynn, for me, he was the first
person to really set the stageas far as income is concerned.
Like it was the first way that Iknew of how people make money

(04:13):
online. And then just to see hiscareer trajectory go from being
a blogger, starting off withpodcasting, doing live
streaming, then getting intoYouTube, and then now he is, I
think he just started also adedicated shorts channel. Think
currently, as of the time thatwe're recording this, he is
doing a short, you know, 30 daychallenge, and asking all of his

(04:34):
audience members in order tomake a short form video every
single day so that you can stop,you know, kind of getting out of
your own or getting out of yourown way, instead of, you know,
stopping production, because youthink that, you know, things
have to be perfect, and he justwants you to jump right into it.
He also made a really greattripod. Started off as, like a
Kickstarter because he was tiredof, like coming to conferences

(04:57):
and not having, you know, a goodtravel kit. And so he made his
own tripod, got it like apatent, and then put it up on
Kickstarter, got fully funded,and now that's what he uses when
he goes to events. And so itjust, I think, just an
impeccable example of how youcan get started with making
content and then start seeingthe problems that exist in your

(05:19):
realm of where you're creatingcontent, and then how can you
solve some of those problems?
And how his career has evolved,you know, with 20 plus years of
making content online,

Unknown (05:28):
I think also his his talk and the emphasis on
storytelling and podcasting, youknow, regardless of the
production, you know,production. Production, quality,
effects, things like that areobviously important. I think
those are, like, kind ofgarnishes, and, you know, icing
on top of the cake. But hisemphasis on, like, always

(05:50):
keeping a story, a story arc,what is, what is the emotion
you're trying to listen fromyour from your listener, whether
it's talking about making incomethrough podcasting or something
like Pokemon collecting, onceagain, you know, I was not
expecting such a deep dive intothe world of Pokemon collecting
and cards, but I thought it wasan engaging way of, you know,
sharing his new journey and how,you know, at the heart of it,

(06:14):
you know,

but even the experiments that he was
running like he was runningexperiments on the binders. Good
binder behavior is somethingthat I remember that he had a
video that it or bad binderbehavior. It started off with
bad binder behavior, and it's, Ipromise, there's a point to
this, but he was in instillingcuriosity into what bad binder

(06:37):
behavior is. And then he comesout speaking of products like he
comes out with his own binder tokeep your Pokemon cards in. And
then inside the binder, it says,Good binder behavior. And so
being able to tell those storiesfrom a YouTube perspective,
which then translate into otheraudio formats on him, and I know
we're at a podcastingconference, but YouTube was also

(06:58):
very dominant in just video ingeneral was very dominant in
this, in the content that Iparticipated in, that I, you
know, attended. I'm curious asto how video, does video play a
more important role now withpodcasting for you? Or maybe
does audio? Does a focus onaudio kind of ring home.

Unknown (07:18):
I think a little bit of both. I think it's hard to deny
the importance of video havingsome sort of visual component
with us, with so many of usfinding ourselves occupying
these spaces online that arevery visual and video driven,
whether it be YouTube,Instagram, you know, the list
goes on and on. I don't thinkthat's to say that there isn't

(07:40):
still room for people to pursuean audio first podcast. But I
think in the industries thatwe're talking about that are
seeing these growths and thesereturns on investment, I think
having a video component is justreally important, and it was a
buzzword that I heard in severaltalks this weekend was aI slop,

(08:02):
which seems to be a lot ofpeople's favorite phrase to
throw out there when talkingabout just the low quality
efforts and the low qualitycontent that you see generated
by AI, I think video is going tobe Even more important in kind
of combating that. Because, youknow, Pat mentioned, like, you
know, he was approaching thisnew venture of getting to

(08:23):
Pokemon collecting of his kids,and, you know, really
approaching it from a curiositystandpoint, you know, bringing
the audience along. And, like,letting him be known as, hey,
I'm a newbie, you know, tell mewhat I should do. And I thought
that was an interesting way ofbuilding engagement, but also
building trust. And I thinkvideo, you know, being able to
see someone's face, the youknow, he was showing so many

(08:44):
different clips of him,whatever, completing a, you
know, a collection of Pokemoncards. And you know he's crying,
and you know he's hugging, likethese people who are trading
cards with him. You know, Idon't think you can quite
capture that same emotionthrough only audio, I think you
have to approach that in adifferent way. But with video, I
think it really helps resonateand bring that human aspect to

(09:06):
it. You know, when someone'swatching that you know and they
know it's not AI, I think youknow, you really, I think it
goes a long way in building aconnection with your audience,
yeah,

and I think starting to that point,
starting a new channel rightnow, it's almost it feels like a
lot of the population, not maybeat this conference, but just in
general, are very cautious tofollow someone new, because they
don't. Maybe they don't know ifit's an AI driven personality or
not, because these things are soeasy for those who don't know.
It is so easy to go to a companylike 11 labs where you can pick

(09:37):
from an avatar type in a script,and then or get AI to make the
script for you, plug the scriptin, and that video can say
whatever you want it to say. Andthen you have other tools like
descript, where it can clone aversion of your voice with
permission, of course, or maybenot permission, depending on
who's using it. And then you canmake new content from your

(09:59):
cloned voice, and so you'redeveloping a situation where can
you develop trust, or can youestablish trust and keep trust
with your audience over a longperiod of time? And I think that
for newer it's going to be alittle challenging for newer
creators to get into this gameand to make it seem like, not
make it seem like they're real,but to convey that realness to

(10:22):
their audience. And so I thinkfor the folks who have already
been making content, maybe youhave a little bit of an easier
path, but you also kind of haveto resist using, and I think
just personally speaking, tryingto resist using all. Of the
tools and all of the things totake the human element out of
it. I have, I am, have tested somany different AI tools over the

(10:46):
last couple of years, and to thepoint where I'm like, I can't
wait to have myself replicated.
And I that's a stance that I'vehad before, but not just because
of this conference, but, youknow, just some the way that I
think the winds are kind ofblowing i i used to be the type
that would say, I want to carpetbomb all social media with all
of my content. I just want itnon stop, one hit after another.

(11:10):
You know, how can I take 17clips from one interview and
then put it all out on socialmedia where? Now it's the
complete opposite for me, whereI need to be more involved with
the editorial. I need to be theone who's looking at all of the
headlines, the descriptions, theSEO keywords, the content that
obviously that we're making, butwhere, where's the direction

(11:31):
going? And then how can we domore quality instead of
quantity? Not to say that Ididn't put quality effort into
my work, but it's, it'sdefinitely, instead of 17 clips
from one interview, it's one ortwo, and those are going to be
such, you know, a great clip inmy mind that I'm going to put
out into the world, instead ofjust, you know, let me just put

(11:53):
it into Opus clips. And whateverOpus tells me is like an A or a
B, that's the one I'm going tosend off to, you know, the
YouTube shorts and social media.
So it's definitely, I think,switch things around for me with
the, I guess, the influx of allof the AI content, where it's
never been easier to makecontent, but now you have to

(12:14):
make the editorial choice ofwhat you're going to produce,
and why? Because, I mean, thisis a business podcast like this
is, you know, in the logisticsindustry that I work in, that
you hear me, you know, acrossthe hall, you know, having my
interviews, there is a level ofwith my own content, of
questioning. Do I want to justbe talking heads like this, and

(12:35):
just be a talking head and andmake content like that, or do I
want to take a little bit of adifferent spin on the audio
version versus the videoversion? And I think that that's
where Pat's talk really hit homefor me is because he he
definitely signified that he'sevolved. I don't know that he
does just strictly podcastsanymore. I think he only does

(12:57):
like YouTube videos and so, buthe's telling a story in a video
format that would be reallychallenging to do in an audio
format.

Unknown (13:05):
There was something that James cridlin, editor of
fodnoo, said in his keynote tothat point that I took a note of
that I wanted to share, where hewas talking about podcasters
trying to play both fields atonce. You know, I'm guilty of
recording audio, recording avideo podcast, but you're also

(13:27):
putting out through audio, butyou're not taking certain
elements into into intofactoring certain elements,
right? Like you you're puttingout in the audio version of this
video podcast, you're makingvisual references. So that kind
of like, you know you'relistening. He had

that one example of it that was like
a BBC podcast where, I guess thehost opened up the show with,
Oh, so you might be wonderingwhy we're sitting in this big,
fancy studio,

Unknown (13:56):
but for the audio listeners only. They're like,
Well, you never really set anycontext. We don't, we can't see
this from right. And I thinkthat was important to hear that
you know, whether you choose tostrictly be audio only or video
or a mesh of both, I think thatis a conscious effort that you
need to keep top of mind thatyou are serving two different,
you know, two differentlisteners to different

(14:18):
audiences. And keeping that inmind, you know, you mentioned
the different tools, right? Likeyou come to a conference like
this, the amount of vendors,exhibitors that are on the on
the exhibitor floor, that havethese services that can make
clips for you or handle whateveryou know, task that you might
want to have covered, I thinkthat's nice in dandy having high

(14:40):
quality production, I think goesa long way in separating you
from so many podcasts. But Ithink quality and quantity. I
think there's a it's a trifect,and that third one is
consistency. I'm going toreference crit Lynn's talk
again, where he shared so manystats about, you know, there's

(15:01):
4.6 million podcasts accordingto the pod podcast index, which
is, you know, a very inspiringnumber to hear that there's
still so many podcasts out. Youknow, it's still new ones coming
out to this day. But then, youknow, juxtaposed to how many are
actually active, meaning thatthey are lease dropping. I
believe he said one episode amonth to be claimed active, 7.2%

(15:23):
that's, you know, 7.2 4.6 I wantto do the math.

It was about 400,000 active shows. So
it was millions.

Unknown (15:30):
Regardless if you have 100 episodes in the bank, you
know, it's the highest quality.
None of that means anything. Ifit's not consistent, you know,
and I think that was the bigtakeaway I'm taking is like,
continue focusing on consistencyand storytelling, you know,
evoking some emotion out of thelisteners, or, you know,

(15:52):
imparting, you know, knowledgeor something new for a solution
for them.

And I would just to clarify for the
audience, James critlin. He isthe editor of pod news, which is
a daily newsletter that givesout all kinds of podcasting
advice and tips and news. Andthey also have a business
version of it as well. And Jamesis a long broadcasting career. I
think he was originally likepart of the BBC. He went through
this whole like, almost like adocumentary style presentation

(16:20):
where he was documenting thehistory of podcasting, and this
was the talk that we set in thatyou're bringing these stats
from. So James should bepublishing those stats, and I
believe in a couple of weeks, hesaid. But from that lens is
where we were taking a lot ofthis insight, of a lot of where,
where should podcasting go?
Because there's such a largevideo component, and then you

(16:42):
add in the AI slop, I guess iswhat for a lot of people who are
looking, maybe for the easy wayout. And I think the biggest
takeaway from his talk, for meis we need to take more time
with our content so that it'smore quality, less quantity. And
then, how do we do that from anaudio perspective, and then also
from the lens of keeping audioopen, you know, the open

(17:05):
standards of RSS, and you know,maybe some of the damage that
some of these, or perceiveddamage that some of these bigger
companies, you know, a Spotifyor Netflix are doing for
podcasting, or trying to get youto do for podcasting, which is
just such a I feel likepodcasting is just the
definition of it. Feels likeit's already evolved, but

(17:27):
there's still a lot of like theaudio focused people who have
been in the game for a long timethat want to keep it the pure
format, versus adding all of thedifferent video components to
it, which muddies the water forpodcasting.

Unknown (17:43):
I guess I don't put much weight into that, that
argument, because I thinkpodcasting has evolved much like
a lot of the things that weinteract with. Media wise, I
don't know if it's so much asyou know you should put so much
emphasis on, like, what you knowwhat podcasting is, or defined,
versus you know, they're both,whether there's audio or video

(18:04):
or a combination of both,they're both vehicles to tell a
story and bar, you know, impartknowledge, or, you know, share
information. So I don't know ifI put, I personally don't put
that much emphasis on that wholedebate. I think, you know, you
had me attend a podcasting, abusiness podcast panel where

(18:26):
they, and I'm so sorry I can'trecall the panel is off the top
of my head. But several of themown podcast agencies, where they
create podcasts for businessesas well as, you know, client
other clients like that. Theyhave services they sell, etc.
And I mean, you know, judgingfrom that conversation, and what
I can recall is that they use acombination of both, both audio

(18:49):
podcasts and video. And it mybig takeaway from that was
having a confidence and a reallyclear understanding of of who
you are, who your audience is,what you're serving, what you're
bringing to the table. And like,leaning in on that, whether
that's just audio or video, Ithink you know it all comes back
to, like, looking internally andlike, what are your goals? Who

(19:10):
is your audience? Like, what areyou doing this for?

And now for you, you for a little
bit of background on you. Forthe audience is that you've been
a podcaster for, like, more than10 years short, box podcast. You
know, you've been in this gamefor a long time. So how do you
see, or will you place a greateremphasis on the video components
of the recordings you're alreadydoing? Because you're recording

(19:33):
much, I think, very similar tohow the rest of you know, my
industry records overallpodcasting in general, where
it's a zoom style format, andthen you edit the audio file
from that, and then the video isjust what you kind of put up
after the fact. Whereas I thinkPat Flynn, he makes a YouTube
first video, he's not doingthis, and then turning that into

(19:58):
a podcast he's doing. He'sscripting it, he's recording
this, and you might get, youknow, five minutes of footage
out of an hour long video thathe records. So I'm curious as,
how are you going to do video,or are you going to do video
differently now that you youkind of hear all these different
viewpoints,

Unknown (20:17):
I think I'm going to apply more intention, be more
intentful with my video content.
And I guess what I needed to seewas someone like Pat Flynn, who
is at the top of the game, andhow he's utilizing YouTube, but
also how YouTube is, you know,it's building incentive for
creators to be on there, tostudy. Be the analytics. You
know, I I guess that was areally big takeaway for me

(20:39):
personally, as someone that'salways considered himself audio
first, and I've always kind oftreated video as kind of second
and like it's there if you wantit. I think I'm leaving this
with a better understanding ofthe power of YouTube and how,
just because I'm on, I decide toput more resources and time, and
he doesn't make me less of apodcaster or not a podcaster.
It's just utilizing, you know,this new platform, not even

(21:02):
really new. Let's be real. It'snot new, but just having a
bigger intention of, like,really utilizing YouTube and
understanding its reach, itspotential, and maybe spending
more time editing and coming upwith scripts. I loved what Pat
said about I feel like this hasnot just become the Pat Flynn
and James gridlin recap hour. Ido want to talk about some of

(21:25):
the other panels, but, and wewill get, but, yeah, like, but,
I just want to say I think thatit really did leave such a big
impression on me to see, youknow, what he's generating for
revenue. You know, like, ifwe're being real, like that is a
top thing that I want to pursue,is more revenue with the
podcast. And I feel like I'vebeen leaving opportunity on the
table with YouTube. I think ofaudio, it's such a you really

(21:47):
have to be your biggestadvocate, your biggest
cheerleader. You really got toput in the legwork to find
sponsors to show them the valueof your show. Where I think
YouTube has has some a lot ofthat built in, also like that
Ford, the Ford facing analytics,the fact that you could see
views and subscribers,discoverability, yes, I think
for your traditional audiopodcaster, that could be that

(22:10):
could be a little scary to haveyour stats and numbers on Front
Street. But I feel like audio,audio, first podcast are very
intimate, not only for thelisteners, the relationship you
build the listeners, but alsointimate in the sense of like
these numbers, these behind thescene. Things are for my viewing
only, unless I decide to sharethat so. Long story short, you
know, rambling a little bit, butI think I leave this with with

(22:31):
the motivation to be moreintentful of my YouTube content,
my my video content, but also toexperiment more. You know, that
was something Pat said, was 20%of your, what do you say content
or or approach should be play,you know, experimenting, new
ideas and yeah, your sandboxing.

(22:52):
The 80% of your content is your,you know, your bread and butter.
You know, your weekly shows,your the things that people know
you for, I think that left abig, big impression on me, yeah.

And I think just from my own, like
looking at my own data, youknow, I usually do this in
December when, you know, I startplaying a best of episodes, and
I want to find out what theaudience like and what they
didn't like. And the analyticson YouTube are so different than
the podcast. And for a podcast,you can an apple podcast, you
can see, and if you don't knowthis, go inside your your apple

(23:25):
podcast, look at your numbersand see how long people are
listening to your episode. Yeah,and then go to that same episode
that you have a video version onYouTube and see how long the
retention rate for that is. Forme, YouTube fell off a cliff
after 10 minutes, and I fromlooking at Pat's numbers.
Apparently this happens to a lotof people, just on, I guess, the

(23:48):
medium of averages for a lot ofchannels. But for me, it really
was an eye opener that I can'tjust edit the video slightly
like we were doing differentediting. You know, if the
speaker, whoever is talking inthe interview, that's the they
take up the whole screen, versusjust, you know, this kind of
side by side, and that differentkind of editing, even getting,

(24:12):
like, a really good pull quote,a hook to start the video off
with, we were trying to dodifferent things. It just hasn't
resonated with the audience. Andso for me, it's okay. I'll still
probably do a very low, I don'twant to say low effort, but the
video version that we'rerecording for the podcast is
probably going to be the videothat I upload to the video

(24:35):
podcast feed on YouTube. So forfolks who don't know, you have a
YouTube classifies your contentin several different ways. You
have your shorts feed, you haveyour live feed, and then you
have just your regular videosfeed. And all of those are
different types of content inYouTube's eyes. And so for me,
what I plan on doing is likefuture interviews like this, I
will use stream yard and put itup as a live and then the goal

(24:59):
is, is that we'll make a audioversion for the podcast, but
then, if there's enoughsubstance there, maybe I can
take several interviews andsplice them together for an
overall sort of thesis on aspecific topic, but I'm taking
several different of thesetalking Head interviews and
piecing them together into alarger format as a YouTube

(25:21):
video. And I think that's whereI'm I was more leaning more
towards before this conference,but now after this conference,
I'm like, that's the direction Ineed to go to, because then
that's giving extra care to thevideo component, almost like a
CNBC style video, where you're.
Not just watching one person dothe interview the entire time.
You're watching them takeseveral interviews with several

(25:42):
people and then putting ittogether for one overall spiel.
Like, you know, are robots goingto take over Amazon workers.
They're not going to talk tojust one person on that one
topic and get like their careerbackstory. They're going to talk
to several different people andhave that content be topic
focused instead of guestfocused. And I think for my
industry and logistics and forall the other folks that are

(26:06):
listening for podcast specifics,I think that that's where you
need to take your shows next,because it has been so easy to
do these talking headinterviews, especially since
covid And so now we need toevolve, and with AI coming into
the fold just dramatically, likeguns ablaze in then we need to
take it up a notch and up ourquality, so then that way, we're

(26:28):
making better content for ouraudience, so we can continue to
grow and continue to build thattrust. I think that's just the
direction I'm personally goingto go, and it sounds like that's
the direction you're going togo. And so let's move on into a
couple of other different talksthat that maybe would have stood
out to you. I know I attended aLinkedIn talk that was pretty

(26:48):
good. I, you know, I don't wantto say, like, surface level
knowledge, but stuff that I kindof already knew, like, make sure
you optimize your about us,section, your description on
your profile, having differentyour career history. You know,
these are kind of like basicstuff that you should have on
your LinkedIn profile already,which somebody needs to update
their LinkedIn profile still.

Unknown (27:11):
This is about pod fest, ma'am, not about personal
attacks to our lack of selfpromotion, but

it is a very powerful social media
platform where, you know, peoplespend money, I won't say, like
Instagram, for example, butthey're spending money on
clothes and ads and things likethat. LinkedIn is where you're
making those businessconnections, the long term
business relationships. And so Idid enjoy that talk and coming
at it from that lens of beingable to, you know, kind of see

(27:41):
where I rank with my profile andhow it's constructed versus
other professionals and how theythink about it. So that was one
talk I really liked. I'llmention another one here too.
But any other talks or that youparticipated on that you liked,
I'll

Unknown (27:56):
highlight the the lessons from the top business
podcast panel, which was aboutlike I said, that the panelists
included CEOs and people thatrun agencies and companies that
produce podcasts that theirbusiness is podcast, and as
someone who uses his podcast tosell certain services, I think I

(28:17):
fall They kind of broke it downto three categories, right?
You're either someone that hasgot a podcast for a hobby, which
is all set and great, that's howI started, or your podcast is
the business, right? You'reselling services, ad spots,
sponsorships, or your podcast isa vehicle to drive sales to your
your your business, or, sorry,which I think you fall into that

(28:38):
I've done all those things,yeah, and, you know, it, it was
one of those conversationswhere, you know, they emphasize,
you know, especially if you area business that's using podcasts
to get clients and referralsand, you know, business like
that, there was a lot ofemphasis on just figuring out
your whys like your pipelines,your customer journeys. Who is

(29:01):
the ideal audience? Whatsolution? What problem are you
trying to solve? What solutionare you bringing to them? Very
emphasis on like, you know, youknow business B to B or business
to customers. BTC, yes. See, asyou can tell, this is my first
business podcast experience, butthe things I got out of that

(29:23):
was, I think it's so easy tokind of hit the ground running,
or you've been podcasting a longtime, like myself, and you're
just used to doing theseactions, and these, these these
things, is that's what you'vebeen doing so long. I know it.
I've published I'm gonna cutclips. I'm gonna promote it on
to the next episode. That panelwas nice because it kind of

(29:44):
forced me to ask myself, like,but why do I do that? Like, what
do I hope that listeners dolike, I if I am selling an ad
spot, how is someone actuallyit? How am I getting that? What
is the process to buy an ad spotfor me or a sponsorship, you
know? So it was nice to kind oflike, these are things that you
think you already know. You'relike, I already I already have

(30:05):
that in mind. I already know theanswer, but it's like, but do
you like, can you answer it onthe spot? And they also
emphasized, I'm glad you broughtit retention rate, because I
felt like that was the otherbuzzword of the weekend. Was
retention rate, you know, Ithink it's downloads is always
really top of minds the first Ithink maybe stat most podcasters
will quote, but retention ratewas something I heard in several

(30:27):
talks, especially when it comesto like YouTube, how that is a
really important stat to likemeasure and take a look at. I
don't think we talk about thatenough in podcasting, and I
think that's because. You've gotso many different platforms. I
mean, you know, back to thatcriblin talk, you know, he's
saying that there's over 185different platforms for
podcasts, a majority of thosebeing audio first. You know, I

(30:49):
think YouTube is, you know,definitely a kind of fits that
both, but regardless. So over180 different platforms. Let's
go and just cut that down tolike the top five. You know,
Apple podcast, Spotify,overcast, whatever I heart name
your fifth one. That's a lot ofdifferent platforms to try to
collect all these stats. We bothhost on Buzzsprout. They do a

(31:11):
really good job of giving youreally good stats in terms of
your downloads locations, butthey're not giving you retention
rate, or listen through rate.
You got to go on Apple podcasts.
You got to go on Spotify. Ithink that's what makes YouTube
an enticing platform to likereally put all your eggs in a
basket, because that data is soreadily available. It goes a

(31:32):
long way in that business.
Podcast, they talk about, notonly retention rate, being a
part of what they call theirpack, your packaging. So you got
your retention rate thumbnailsand title, you know? And we
always hear that from manypodcasts when it comes to
success on YouTube, is yourthumbnails and your titles are
like your first line of defenseor attack. You know? It's like,
it's what people are drawn to.

(31:55):
If those aren't strong, then whocares if the content and the
video is good. You can't evenhook them in the first, you
know, in the first instance. Andthey had said something about if
you have a lot of plays, this istalking about YouTube, if you
have a lot of plays, but littleretention, if people are are not
staying, but you have, like,whatever, 20,000 views, but

(32:16):
people are dropping off afterthe first minute. Well, then
maybe you can narrow it down tothe content. Maybe the content
is good. You got a lot of plays.
People are clicking on it. Maybethe thumbnail was good, the
title is good, but they realizethis is kind of boring. Or the
inverse could be true. Do youhave a lot of retention? People
are staying through your 30minute video. You know,
everyone's staying for 20minutes, that's great, but you

(32:38):
don't have a lot of views, somaybe now you're looking at the
packaging. You know yourthumbnail maybe is in. Maybe you
need to work on your thumbnail.
Maybe your title could use somemassaging. I thought that was
pretty interesting, just theemphasis on leveraging and
really doubling down on thestats and information made
available to you. I think it'seasy to gloss over that stuff

(32:59):
and just look at it and justlike, Okay, that's great. I got
100 downloads this week,awesome, but, like, really
drilling down and using what youhave. I think on the audio side,
I cannot recall the name of thepanelists that said this, but I
thought he did a great job. Buthe was saying for his audio
first show, he doubles downanytime he meets, you know, a

(33:20):
listener in person, you know, hereally doubles down on the
anecdotal evidence, you know,tell me, how did you find the
show? What do you like about theshow? What don't you like? What
is your biggest, you know,problem that you're trying to
solve, you know? And that couldjust be one listener that you
meet in the whole month or wholeyear, but that's valuable.
That's all you got, right? Like,for audio, that's, that's a

(33:41):
great additional information toget.

Just, I mean, as you were talking, I
can't help but think about like,this is just so much stuff to
know and to learn. And forsomebody just starting out,
like, I don't even know where Iwould start. If I were to start
a podcast today, I probablywould just go straight to
YouTube, you know, based oneverything that we're talking

(34:06):
about here, but that's a wholeother different skill set, where
you almost need the reps ofpodcasting in order to excel in
video. And that's, you know,from coming from like a radio
broadcaster. I never knew this,but that's how, for a lot of,
you know, professionaljournalists and people that you
see on TV, the typical path thatthey follow is that they start

(35:20):
off at a newspaper writing, andthen they get a little bit into
radio, and then, if you lookdecent, then you get on camera,
and they, you know, they'll say,you know, you got a face for
radio. Is for, you know, a lotof folks that do work in radio
for a very long time, and it'sbecause they technically could
not be, could not fit into thetypical broadcast role. And so

(35:41):
for a lot of folks that areworking internally at a company
and they're responsible forstarting a podcast, or they're
trying to do this in their sparetime, like, where would you
suggest that you even getstarted?

Unknown (35:53):
I think it would come down to to to your why. You know
your why. Why are youpodcasting? Is it for a hobby
sake? Are you trying to build abusiness? I would say if it's
the latter, if you're trying todo this to make money to free
for business. I feel likeYouTube is just a better return

(36:14):
on investment, because if you'rerecording video, then you got
audio, you know, I mean,obviously, keeping in mind the
two different audiences that wetalked about earlier. But also,
you can get clips out of that,which, you know, fits the
marketing aspect. You got clipsfor social. I think there's a
lot more. There's there'sdefinitely some. Oh, my God, I
just lost my train of thought.
There is, you know, justdifferent opportunities to

(36:35):
sponsor those, the retail, theretail, what am I saying?

Blythe Brumleve Millig (36:40):
Anyways, day three of a conference, we've
talked a lot, and we've had somelate nights and

Unknown (36:47):
so, but that's not to say that you can't find success.
Audio only. I think for audioonly, I think you'd have to just
go very niche. I think we'veheard several examples this
weekend about very hyperactive,hyper niche podcasts that are
doing extremely well forthemselves, that probably won't

(37:09):
ever hit the level of fame thatyou know, a lot of exactly
aspire to. You know, forexample, we had heard an example
of a an air conditioned podcastthat talks specifically about
the lives of air conditionedfitters. You know, the day in
the life of a fitter in theirindustry,

tips and tricks of installing air
conditioning. I won't even

Unknown (37:33):
pretend to fathom what they talk about, but the the
example that based on that wasthat they are making plenty they
make plenty of money off oftheir podcast through
sponsorships. But also, Ibelieve it's tied to a business
and a service, and they, they,

they also created it for the the
person that's going to listenfrom job site to job site. And I
think that's very when I heardthem talk about that, I
immediately thought of truckdrivers, because there are so
many creators within thetrucking space, and they're
making content for people whosit in a truck all day and need
something to listen to, and soyou have to think about, to your

(38:14):
point, the why of what you'redoing it, and then also the
perceived ROI of what you'redoing. Because you listed the
different ways of or thedifferent types of, you know,
maybe you're doing it as ahobby, or maybe you're doing it
for your business, but if you'redoing it as a business or for a
business, then you're doing itlikely to get market research
from your target customers, fromyour employee base. Maybe it's

(38:37):
an informational podcastinternally, for you know, HR
sake. So there's lots ofdifferent reasons of why you
would make a podcast, but whenyou start getting into the realm
of treating it as a business,that's when I think there's a
whole other set of expectations.
Because, you know, we're sittinghere talking about how
everything is evolving, and allthe different thumbnails and
texts, and should I make thisword all caps, and, you know,

(39:00):
the versus the rest of thesentence, and all of those
different components, you stillhave to explain the value of a
view of a download to apotential sponsor, so having the
business aspect of a podcastjust has another layer to it,
where you're trying to figureout what all of this stuff
means, what your audience wants.

(39:20):
Well, guess what? You have toalso explain that to your
sponsor and hope that they keepsupporting you.

Unknown (39:26):
Yeah, obviously I'm on a business podcast, so this is
almost counter, counter to thewhole ethos of this. But, you
know, just thinking about thejust the the regular person that
comes to the an event like thisis inspired to do a podcast
about a hobby or passion thatthey like. I don't want it to
seem that that it that startinga podcast has to make you money,

(39:50):
that you have to, you know,build a production company.
Because that was another topicthat they brought up, is that,
you know, when you look at thecelebrity podcast, you know,
it's, it's easy to, I think,forget that they've got so much
resources at their hand. They'renot editing the show, they're
not lining up guests, they'renot cutting clips. You know,

(40:11):
unfortunately, that's going tofall on a if you're just
starting out, that's all goingto fall on you. And I think it's
up to you to decide what youwant to do and what you don't
want

to do.
It's really easy to getoverwhelmed with all of this.
And

Unknown (40:21):
you don't have to do all of that. You don't. I was
talking to someone today whereit's like, if you don't want to
do video, if that's too hard,then do audio. If you don't want
to be on social media, thendon't be but you know, obviously
there's going to be give andtakes with that. I think if I
was just starting out and Iwanted to do a hobby only

(40:41):
podcast, I would ask myself, Isthis hobby or topic going to be
enhanced by having visual thenmaybe I would lean into video.
But if not, and I just wanted tofocus on consistency, getting it
off the ground. I would go audioand I would, I would absolutely
double down on finding mycommunity and finding a rather
specific niche and audience tolike, to cater to. I think video

(41:08):
is for, like I said, I for me.
I've been doing this long enoughI can, I can dedicate a little
more resources to video thehobby. I'm sorry, the topic that
I talk about would be enhancedbecause it is a visual medium.
I'm talking about comic books.
It's a visual medium. I youknow, it would work with
YouTube.

I think it's just, it's, it's
really quick, or it's reallyeasy to get. Overwhelmed when
you hear about all of the thingsthat all of all of the people
are doing and what works andwhat doesn't work. I think
having, I don't want to say likea clear vision, because I don't
know that I've ever been hadlike a super clear vision on my
content, I try to keep it alittle bit more fluid and

(41:46):
structure the things I canstructure. But also, I think you
have to take a hard look in themirror at times and realize
where you're falling short. Ifeel like I'm falling short with
YouTube videos. I feel like Icould that's a that's a creative
step that I want to take andthat I want to become better at,
but I don't want to do it at thesake of losing the audio version

(42:09):
of the podcast, because I thinkof myself as a podcaster first,
and then how do I get better atthe other components, and what
can I outsource? And what to myearlier point of, I need to stay
close to the editorial that'swhere I'm I shine and where I'm
good at, and I shouldn'toutsource it to other people, to

(42:30):
or an agency. In order to handlethat for me, I should have the
clear direction of who myaudience is, who I'm talking to,
and why. And I think that that'ssomething very personal that
everyone kind of has to come togrips with, of who they're
talking to, why they're doingthis. Do you even want to take
it up a notch, or do you wantto, you know, just keep doing

Unknown (42:50):
what you're doing, yeah, which is the totally fun,
right? And look at Joe Rogan,

like, I know this is sensitive topic
for some people, so sorry if youget stressed out with me. You
know, mentioning his name, butvery simple setup. He has one
producer. They do one socialmedia clip, and that's it, yeah,

Unknown (43:07):
it should always be the focus, regardless of the
production quality, the thesocial media popularity, like
the content needs to resonatewith someone, and yeah, your
story needs to resonate withsomeone. The other big thing I
took away from this is not beingafraid. It's just how fluid the
industry is, and as a creator,not being afraid to to

(43:31):
experiment, to practice. Youknow, they mentioned a few times
utilizing YouTube's like a, btesting for the thumbnails, you
know, just small things likethat. You're always, you're
always, constantly tweaking. Andthat was, I think, the
realization that really gothammered in this weekend is
that, if there was keys tosuccess, to making a successful

(43:53):
podcast. There would be no onehere. There would be no more
talks. We would have figuredthis out years ago. But the
podcast industry, the podcastpodcasting, is much like any
other industry. It's alwaysevolving. It started as audio
only, you know, with RSS and,you know, I remember having to
do my own coding. Now it's here,you know now, it incorporates

(44:14):
video, it It's millions ofpodcasts. It's always going to
be evolving, and I think you canevolve with it by just
experimenting, trying out newcontent. Yeah.

So what do you think is is next for
you after this? What's the firstthing

Unknown (44:31):
you're going to do? It sounds like, it sounds like I
can try new things. I think Iso. It's permission, almost.
Yeah, it was encouragement to belike, Okay, let me try some new
video content. Let me try somesomething fresh. You know, I
know I'm good at what I alreadydo. I can keep that running. Let

(44:52):
me make time to try a newseries, to maybe do more solo
focus. Things get a littlebetter at some editing.

This little behind the scenes joke,
because I keep telling him foryears to do more solo episodes.
Yeah?

Unknown (45:09):
So I think my Yeah, my most immediate action item is to
come up with some new conceptsand write some new scripts,
really, I think, revisit the myprocesses that I have in place
and make sure that they arerefined, that I'm not just like,
oh, yeah, that works. I alreadygot that set up. Do I really
have a setup? I think a nicelittle audit. I think that's,
that's what it

comes down. What about from an AI
perspective, like we've kind of,you know, talked bad about, I
don't want to say talk bad, butwe haven't exactly shown AI in a
positive light. Maybe in thisepisode, maybe kind of neutral.
We've been a little neutral.
There's, I think, a lot of fear

Unknown (45:45):
around, no, I think it's, I think we know what is
considered ai slopp and whatisn't, if you're using, I mean,
how many tools have we've usedthroughout the years that
technically are AI or have somesort of AI component, I would I
still hold fast that I would notlet AI make.

How do you use currently AI in your
podcast. I mean, obviouslytranscriptions, I think, is the
biggest winner

Unknown (46:15):
ever got started. I you know, if I'm looking at how the
blank

page or the I heard it say that blank
page syndrome, it gets rid ofthat,

Unknown (46:23):
yeah, just give me something to start and I'll
refine it. You know, like, evenif you hate it, yeah, I almost
look at AI as it brings. Slab ofgranite, of Rock, and I'm like,
Michelangelo, I'm just chippingaway at it, all right? I'm
finding the statue of David, youknow, I think, have you ever
heard that, where it's, youknow, it's all about reduction.

(46:43):
You know, you take this big slabof rock, and then you keep
taking away from it, taking awayfrom it, until you get, you
know, that statue of Davidthat's lying in the center of
it. I think that's what how Iview AI is like, it gives me
some raw materials, and it's upto me and my best judgment. It's
why listeners trust me, youknow, to express my opinions and
thoughts, to take that rawmaterial. And do you think

you outside of transcripts? Are you
how you're using it forideation? Is that maybe, like
the most you're using it for,

Unknown (47:14):
I think data finding. I think I attended an seo panel
today about, you know, SEOstrategies for podcasters. I
won't say that I had an epiphanyin that, but there was an
interesting use case of lookingat your competition, your your
peers, other similar shows,finding out, like, what, what

(47:35):
are some of the keywords andthat they're utilizing and using
chat GBT for, like, that datarefinement and just looking at a
big data so I think that's whereI'm going to continue using it
is for research purposes. Like,I don't want to comb through
every single page and readthrough every single post, you
know. Let me give it to oldchat, G, B,

T, well, I will say so. I tried AI
in a variety of differentformats. I love experimenting. I
love trying out new tools andsee where it can fit.
Transcriptions is clearly thebiggest winner. I still remember
to this day of, you know, makinga social media clip and then
having to manually go in and addthe transcripts myself and type

(48:18):
it out myself. So not having todo that has been a godsend. But
some of these tools for deepresearch, you know, being able
to do a deep research report ona guest, and I can include, you
know, their LinkedIn profile,their website, and, you know,
make almost like a summarydocument. And then that summary
document that I no longer haveto spend hours doing is just

(48:41):
done for me in a matter of, youknow, five to 10 minutes. And
then I can read that summarydocument, and then I can come up
with the questions, or I've evenprompted it and said, Okay, come
up with in my voice, in my toneand style. Here's some
transcripts of previousinterviews. This is the kind of
flow that I like using. Come upwith a show plan of questions

(49:04):
that I should be asking. Andmost of the time I don't like
it, but it spawns or spurs thatcreative juice to be like, Okay,
this is where I want to take theshow. This is where I want to
take the interview. One aspectof it that you don't necessarily
see on camera or in the contentitself. I mean, it shows, I
think, in the results, but beingable to use different sources to

(49:27):
come to come up with newconcepts, you know, for example,
like, I'll notebook LM isprobably my favorite AI
platform, but I'll be able totake, you know, a previous guess
all of the appearances thatthey've done previously. And
it's like, how can I make myinterview and my voice different
from these previousconversations? Because we do

(49:48):
have a thing in my industrywhere one person we'll go on
several different shows and fromI don't want to have the same
episode as everybody else. Iwant mine to be different. I
want it to be elevated versuseverybody else. And so using all
of that context, then I'll plugit in, and I'll write out my own
questions, and then I'll takethose questions and plug it

(50:09):
right back into the system andsay, push back on this. Like,
what, what would what do youthink I'm missing from my own
content that you think that Ishould have? And so, you know,
looking at it from that lens, italmost acts as like your
assistant, your co CEO, that canhelp you with the editorial
direction of your own show basedon your own content that you've

(50:30):
already created. And so I thinkthat this is just a realm of
possibilities, that you can usethese different formats. And
then, you know, take it fromthere of how do you add where?
Where is the important humanelements for you to add? And
then how do you stay true towhat your editorial style is, so
that you're not overlyinfluenced of what everybody

(50:52):
else is doing. How do you kindof pick and choose of what will
work, what has worked for otherpeople, and what could work for
your audience and your show?

Unknown (51:01):
Yeah, and I think in closing, that's the message that
I am internalizing. But I alsowant to share with with you know
podcasters and listeners outthere is that podcasting is
going nowhere, whether that beaudio or video. I think there's,
there is stats to support that.
I think there are prime examplesof people in this space doing

(51:22):
that. Pat Flynn, you know,being, you know, in this for
this weekend, I keep bringinghim up because I think it was
great for. Him to open that and,you know, showcase his his
findings. I think if you arehappy with where you're at with
your reception, your downloads,your you know, anybody, if
you're happy with it, I think,continue doing what you do, but

(51:46):
if you do want to take it to thenext level, would that be, you
know, more downloads, orwhatever your your your internal
ROI is, don't be afraid toexperiment, I think, doubling
down on the stats and data thatyou have available to you, and
really studying those and makingsense of what they mean, and
just and expecting this to be aprocess that you know, with

(52:08):
experimentation, you try alittle, and maybe it might be
months before you see, you know,a return on that, or it to hit,
or maybe it doesn't, and thenyou got to pivot, you know, not
to look at as wasted time. Or,you know, obviously it's, it's a
risk in a certain way. But Idon't think it has to be a, I
don't think it's got to be a, Ithink it's

got to be a sandbox, like giving
yourself permission toexperiment, like not paying
attention to the numbers, butalso paying attention to where
you want to go creatively andhow you want to take your show
to the next level.

Unknown (52:48):
I think striking a balance between remembering why
you do this show, having yourwhy, your who, your what, and
finding the balance with like.
But this is what the data istelling me, and trying to find
that perfect middle ground oflike. I'm going to try this. I'm
going to change this, but at thesame time it still sticks true
to my ethos of and

Blythe Brumleve Milliga (53:08):
respect to the platform of which you're
creating. And so, you know, backto the James cridlin example.
Don't just tell me you're inthis big opulent room and
expecting people to watch thevideo version. Describe it. Talk
about the velvet carpet, youknow, the golden chairs, because
that they were sitting in thatexample that he had. He was
sitting in a very opulent set,and only people watching it

(53:31):
would have seen the opulence,but the host didn't describe it
to the audio listening audience.
And so with all of that said, Iam curious as to, you know, what
are your because YouTube, youcan see all of the examples, and
you can see those differentexperiments. You can see the
view counts. And I think thatthat's what's unique about
YouTube, is that you can seethe, you know, the Thumbs Up on

(53:51):
certain content, and the ratioof comments versus the video
that's on and the views, and youcan compare all those numbers.
Podcasting, you're left in thedark. You don't know how many
views a particular episode has,or that the public doesn't. So
from a, I guess, an outsider'sperspective, of the shows the
audio first shows that youlisten to. Which ones stand out

(54:12):
the most of pure they might havea video component, but you
thoroughly enjoyed listening tothe audio version of that
episode.

Unknown (54:22):
I mean, none of them are business podcasts, that's
right, but I am a big fan of theQuestlove supreme podcast, which
is just a one on one interview.
He interviews musicians, actors,you know, people in the pop
culture space. And I thoroughlyjust enjoy the conversations
they have, the stories theytell. You know, the questions he

(54:42):
asked. He's able to pull certainthings out of you know, his
guests that I think a regularinterviewer probably wouldn't
because he's in this space, youknow, and not to bring up
crittle it again, but heshowcased this shirt that he had
made that it said, but it saidpodcast, something for your ears
when your eyes are busy. Andthat really stuck with me,

(55:07):
because it just kind ofhighlights that intimacy of
having like someone so close toyou, like literally in your
ears. I don't think aspodcasters, we should under
underestimate that power and

the car rides, the people who are
cleaning, doing laundry, likeyou know, all of the things that
you do at home, you

Unknown (55:30):
have their active attention, you know, like I know
for myself, if I'm doingsomething mundane, washing the
dishes, I feel like my hearingis 20 times better

than Well, it's a compliment instead
of a distraction, which is in myown listening habits. I think I,
you know, I was telling you lastnight I can't. It's been a long
time since I've listened to anaudio first episode. I have
found myself going more and moreto YouTube if there's a video
version of the podcast, but I'vealso looking at my screen time
reports. I spend way too muchdamn time on YouTube as well,

(56:01):
and I could be getting much moredone, my own creation done, and
if by not participating in thetype of content that distracts
me from life, instead of theaudio which compliments my life.

Unknown (56:14):
And I think it's too you know, podcast fans, you
know, enthusiasts that have, youknow, have our regular shows. I
know I've been listening to someof these for literally decades,
and I don't see myself notlistening to them like any long
you know. I'm saying it's

like, well, if quest love, if he. Had,
you know, a video version of thepodcast. Would you watch it?

Unknown (56:33):
No, not really. I mean, I know I actually, I wouldn't,
because I think I have built thehabit of this. And once again,
that's another aspect I thinkpodcasters should, like, really,
like, pay attention to, and thatthat is the goal, right? Is for
us to become a part of someone'shabit where every, you know, my
case, every Wednesday I drop anepisode. My goal is for someone,

(56:54):
a listener, every Wednesday totune in on their way to the
comic shop. You know, becauseWednesdays is the day that the
new comics come out. Like I'mtrying to build, I'm trying to
get into someone's habit. And Ithink when you do have that,
when you do cross that, and it'sa success there, there's a lot
of power in that. And I thinkaudio is just a different habit,

(57:16):
that you're building a differentrelationship. But that's all to
say that I don't have to pickbetween audio and video, you
know. Like, the only thinghindering me from listening to
even more shows is the amount oftime I have, you know, like you
said, I you know, I work. I'mtrying to create myself, you
know, family, etc. But that'snot to say that both can exist

(57:36):
with a listener. You know, I'vegot my audio shows, and I do
have video shows where I like tosometimes see the reference
they're making, or see theirfaces, you know, when they're
saying these whatever outlandishthings. So I think there's just
room for both. I think it'sreally honing in on the
uniqueness of both mediums, andjust doubling down on that, but
at the same time, the heart ofit is a storytelling I think

(57:58):
that's my big takeaway. Isemphasizing storytelling,
community and emotion, because Ithink that's going to make you
stand out from, you know, thewave of AI slap that they got
you convinced

is coming. Now, we have talked, you
know, a lot about differentYouTubers and things like that
that we watch. And then, from anaudio perspective, you've talked
about the shows that you onlylisten to audio version. I want
to throw one out there. It'shidden brain. It's consistently
one of the top podcasts. Butthey are audio, from what I
understand, they're audio only.
But maybe to your greater pointis that, you know, once I've

(58:32):
built in that listening habit toone show on one channel, then
I'm going to go to that channeland listen to it. Odd lots is
another one that is, you know,very I don't want to it's not as
narrative storytelling as hiddenbrain is, but I still only
listen to the audio version whenI know that there's a YouTube
version of the same show, andso, you know, from that lens,

(58:53):
it's, how do you build thatinitial relationship with your
audience? But then also, don'tbetray it, for the sake of, you
know, trying to be differentthings to different people.

Unknown (59:04):
And I think it goes back to we were saying it's like
you can do both. There issuccess stories, there is plenty
of listeners to be to be had inboth. You know, it's not a
scarcity thing in either or, youknow, judging on what research
or study you're looking attoday, you know, YouTube might
seem more appealing, or audiopodcast might seem more

(59:25):
appealing. I think either youcan decide to do one or the
other, you could try to do both.
You're more power to you. But Ithink whatever way that you lean
into, you really lean into itand maximize on that specific
mediums uniqueness. If it'saudio, then you put a little
more emphasis on the productionquality, the sound quality, the
storytelling aspect of it, theroutine, the intimacy of it. If

(59:46):
it's YouTube, then you reallybuckle down into, you know,
playing the YouTube game, havingstrong thumbnails titles. I
think, you know, I attended thatSEO one, and I, like I said, I
didn't have an epiphany onanything brand new, but it was
like all of those fields inYouTube that you fill out when

(01:00:07):
you put out a video, they'rethere for a reason, you know,
like, why not try to fill it outas much as you can, or have what
you can exactly as much as youcan? So to tie it all back, you
know, if you choose Audio, leaninto it. If you go video, lean
into it. There is, I think, anarea for both, but you got to be
a little more conscious aboutit.

Blythe Brumleve Milligan (01:00:27):
Okay, I think that's a really good
place to end it. But I do haveto ask one last question because
friend of the show, MatthewLeffler, armchair attorney, he
has had this question for youfor a while. For me, for you,
this one is and we need tofinally answer it. And his
question was, and Dr Doom put onthe One Ring, whoa. Would he be

(01:00:50):
able to resist it, or would hebe able to use it? Because
Sauron is the only person thatcan really wield its power. But
can Dr Doom resist the urge ofthe ring and wield that power?

Unknown (01:01:02):
I think, complicated question, Matthew. If you were
to look back in Dr dooms historyand lore and various stories, he
has obtained artifacts of great,immense power that I think you
could say would be on par withthe One Ring, the Cosmic Cube
comes to mind. He's had theInfinity Gauntlet. He has been

(01:01:25):
in positions where he has beenall powerful, or had the ability
and. Doc, in the end, he alwaysends up, you know, falling to
he's always gets defeated. Youknow, he falls to the power
itself. I think Dr Doom would beable to wield the One Ring for
quite a bit. I think Dr doomsthing, the thing that I

(01:01:45):
thoroughly enjoy about him isthis innate willpower that he is
so firmly believes that he isright, that his path is, is the
correct one, that He is allknowing that he's the only one
that is capable of harnessingpower to in his twisted sense of
good or order and justice. Ithink, I think so. I think Dr

(01:02:07):
Doom would, but to say that, Ithink he would, it would be a
very conscious thing. He'dalways have to be walking the
line. And if someone like ReedRichards the Avengers were to
come through and, you know, messup his plans, Dr Doom would
probably, would probably succumbto that temptation, because he

(01:02:27):
is also someone that is very egodriven, you know, does not like
to be, you know, told otherwise.
And I think if it meant thedifference between being
defeated or, you know,succumbing to the power to
defeat his enemies to maintainthat power, it would be a
slippery slope. But I think fora strong amount of time with
little opposition, Dr dune wouldwield that ring.

Sounds like some podcaster comparisons
in there too, to forget the egoand forget seeking power, maybe
just focus on doing good in theworld. I don't know if that much

Unknown (01:02:58):
like Batman, where he is very prep driven. You know,
he's not going to just come upwith a half assed plan. He would
be very aware of the dangers inthe history of the One Ring, and
he would find a way to devise,whether it be some sort of
machine or a call upon the darkarts, to figure out a way to
wield it, but, and it's true,but at some point his own vanity

(01:03:21):
and ego would be his downfall,

as such the case with all villains.
So thank you, Matthew, for thequestion. We finally got it
answered.

Unknown (01:03:29):
I had a couple months to prep for that. I did. I, you
know, thought about thatquestion.

Well, for folks who are interested in
comic books and pop culture,where can they find you? Find
your show.

Unknown (01:03:42):
For all you nerdy business owners that want to
talk nerdy, you can follow me onthe short box podcast, which is
available everywhere you getyour podcast. But one thing I
learned at this podcast is thatyou shouldn't say that, because
you might not find it. So youcan go to the shortbox
podcast.com and I have a list ofapps and platforms that I'm on,
and you should check it out ifyou like hearing from some of

(01:04:04):
the best comic creators in theworld. I've got plenty of
interviews if you like hearingme debate things like with Dr
doom. Be able to wield the OneRing. You'll find that too once
again. B short box podcast.com

and also very good audio experience
as well. Thank you. Thank youbhatter for coming on for the
first time.
Thanks for tuning in to anotherepisode of everything is
logistics, where we talk allthings supply chain, for the
thinkers in freight, if youliked this episode, there's
plenty more where that camefrom. Be sure to follow or

(01:04:36):
subscribe on your favoritepodcast app so you never miss a
conversation. The show is alsoavailable in video format over
on YouTube, just by searchingeverything as logistics. And if
you're working in freightlogistics or supply chain
marketing, check out my company,digital dispatch. We help you
build smarter websites andmarketing systems that actually
drive results, not just vanitymetrics. Additionally, if you're

(01:04:58):
trying to find the right freighttech tools or partners without
getting buried in buzzwords,head on over to cargorex.io
where we're building the largestdatabase of logistics services
and solutions. All the links youneed are in the show notes. I'll
catch you in the Next episode ingo jags. You you.

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