August 25, 2026 • 25 mins
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What does it mean to reclaim an Indigenous identity you didn’t have the opportunity to grow up with?
In Part 2 of our conversation with Monica Hall and Kristal Parke, we explore one of the connections that first brought these two women together: they are both adoptees, and they are both Cree.
Kristal talks about growing up without a connection to her Indigenous culture and the complicated feeling of not being “Indigenous enough.” Finding other Indigenous adoptees who are also trying to reconnect has given her something she didn’t have growing up: people who understand that conflict without needing it explained.
Monica understands it well. She didn’t know she was Indigenous until she connected with members of her biological family. She later learned that her father spoke fluent Cree and that her great-grandmother was a medicine woman.
In the 1990s, Monica began exploring the culture she hadn’t grown up with. Her aunt taught her to bead and make medicine bags. As an herbalist, Monica wanted to learn about the healing plants of her people. She attended powwows, and her daughter became a fancy dancer.
And yet, Monica admits there’s still a part of her that wonders whether she deserves to call herself Cree. She didn’t experience the prejudice members of her biological family faced. She wasn’t raised speaking the language, and much of the cultural knowledge in her family wasn’t passed down. Adoption separated her from those experiences before she had any choice in the matter.
That shared uncertainty is part of what connected Monica and Kristal. They can recognize each other as strong Indigenous women even when claiming that identity for themselves can be more complicated.
We also talk about Kristal’s documentary about Monica’s life, Life’s a Mother, the response to its trailer, their shared sobriety and the friendship that has grown far beyond the film itself.
Kristal also explains why staying with Monica comes with some serious “mom energy,” although Monica’s particular brand of mothering apparently includes the occasional, “Look at me when I talk to you.”
If you missed Part 1, The Genetic Sexual Attraction Nobody Talks About, start there, then join us for Part 2 and a conversation about Cree heritage, adoption, cultural identity and finding your own relationship with a history that was always yours.
Remember, family secrets are the ultimate plot twist.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kendall (00:00):
Hey everybody, I'm Kendall, and I'm Corey.
(00:02):
Before we get into part two withMonica and Crystal, today is a
pretty big day for us.
Nine years ago today, I got anAncestry.com alert telling me
that I had a super close DNAmatch.
His name is Christopher Clark.
Within minutes, we were on thephone together and I found out
that he's my half-brother.
That phone call kicked off whathas been a pretty twist-filled
(00:24):
nine years for us.
That's putting it mildly, I wentinto that DNA test hoping that
I'd maybe learned somethingabout where it came from.
Instead, I found a half-brother,then my biological father, more
half-siblings, a whole familyhistory I knew nothing about,
and answers that led to evenmore questions.
And eventually all of thathelped lead us here to Family
(00:46):
Twist.
Which makes it kind of perfectthat we're spending today
reuniting with Monica Hall andCrystal Park.
Part 2 is really about somethingI understand.
Discovering a part of yourselfin middle age and then having to
figure out what to do with it.
Monica and Crystal are bothadopted and they're both Creed.
Neither one grew up with aconnection to their indigenous
(01:06):
culture that they could havehad.
Corey (01:07):
Monica didn't even know she was indigenous until she
found members of her biologicalfamily.
Later she learned that herfather spoke fluent Creed, her
great-grandmother was a medicinewoman, and there was even this
entire history that had alwaysbelonged to her, even though she
hadn't known about it.
Kendall (01:22):
And she said something that I really wanted to talk
about.
Even after learning all of that,part of her still wonders
whether she deserves to callherself Creed.
Corey (01:53):
So how did you two bond over your shared Cree heritage?
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
I think for Monica and I, one of the things about
being an adoptee and growing upin a family that doesn't connect
you to your culture is that youfeel really displaced and you
don't feel like you'reindigenous enough.
(02:18):
I think finding fellow adopteeswho also have had that
experience and are alsoattempting to reconnect with,
you know, their indigenousidentity is there's a real
comfort in that because I thinkwe both see each other as
indigenous, strong indigenouswomen.
(02:41):
What do you think, Monica?
SPEAKER_04 (02:43):
I feel the same way.
When I met my family, I didn'tknow that I was indigenous
actually until I spoke with myuncle, my birth mother's
brother, who was the firstperson I connected with.
And I told him who I thought mybirth father was that was on the
non-identifying information, andhe insisted that that was not.
(03:04):
And I guess I had describedmyself when I called him.
SPEAKER_03 (03:07):
I've always had really dark hair, except when I
was blonde for 25 years.
What I was doing, I don't know.
I thought I was gonna have morefun.
I did not have more fun.
SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
So now I'm brown again.
But I I remember him saying, hecan't be your father, he can't
be your father, he's black.
And I I didn't know what he wastalking about, but that's how
they described a very darkindigenous person in Canada was
black.
And I was delighted, but Ididn't suffer with prejudice
(03:36):
like my family did.
I've looked white.
I really struggled with feelinglike I didn't deserve to call
myself Cree.
And I still struggle with that.
My birth father, he wasn'traised in really other than the
place he was raised, everybody,you know, minute most people
spoke Cree and such, but theyweren't erased with their with
(03:58):
their medicines and the thingsthat you know people do when
they're connecting with theirculture because of the shame.
So I didn't know he could speakfluent Cree for decades.
I met him in 1980, and there's avideo where there's a pilgrimage
around this property where myfamily settled, both sides of my
(04:18):
family, and I asked him to speakCree and to translate a woman,
woman's, you know, that wasstanding in the water, there's a
healing lake up there.
I was just so enamored with it.
And on my Burke mother's side,my auntie came to visit me.
And there was a time in the 90swhen I was really interested in
(04:38):
my heritage.
I'm an herbalist.
I wanted to know the healingplants of my people.
She came and visited me.
We made medicine bags, sheshowed me how to bead, she'd
showed me how to make earringsand things, and told me about
the culture.
I have books that nobody hasanymore because they were
they're out of print on the Creeand our heritage.
(05:02):
That was a really big thing forme.
I in the 90s.
I really went back.
I went to Pow Wow's here inSacramento, and my daughter was
a fancy dancer at the Pow Wow's.
And I also was with a woman whowas less indigenous than I was,
but she was raised by hergrandmother.
And her grandmother had takenher into the woods and shown her
(05:24):
the medicines.
So I learned from her, and shetook me into the community and
showed me the community is sodifferent than what we're used
to.
That was a beautiful, beautifultime for me because I did get to
delve into my heritage.
But my granny, my great-grannywas a medicine woman.
Most of that's not passed down.
(05:44):
I have some knowledge, but not alot.
And it's so sad.
A large part of me really feelsmy creed.
It really does.
And another part of me feelslike I don't deserve it because
I I didn't feel the prejudicethat my family did.
I didn't suffer.
It's a weird place to be.
It really is.
Corey (06:04):
So, Monica, what was your gut reaction on seeing the
trailer?
I think I cried.
SPEAKER_04 (06:10):
Laughed.
Yeah.
When I showed it to a couple ofpeople, the reaction was the
same.
And they were surprised becauseI had mentioned that there was a
documentary being done on mystory.
That's nice.
And then when they saw it,they're like, Wow, this is
really, really good.
(06:30):
And it is.
It's a beautiful, beautifulpiece of work.
I mean, anybody that's seen itwill say, and it you really
light up like I want to knowmore.
And it captures Monica.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
My favorite line in the beginning is when your
daughter Becca says, Doeseverybody like Monica?
Probably not.
I filmed her watching it for thefirst time.
So I should share that actually.
I'll clip together something andI'll put it up on the Life some
Mother Instagram.
(07:04):
So for listeners, go followLife's a Mother.
We'll periodically update it.
Right now it's a little quiet,but you can go on and you can
see people's reactions and theirresponses to the trailer.
And it was really fascinating tohear different people's response
to the trailer.
(07:25):
Me and Chelsea, we always testthese trailers out on our
husbands.
And if they cry, then we'relike, okay, okay, there's we got
something here.
This is good.
This is good.
But Chelsea's a trailer wizard.
She's so talented at reallycapturing what the essence of
the film will be like.
Corey (07:45):
I immediately after watching it, I wrote to both of
you and said, we got to do anepisode.
I can't wait to see it.
What is the future of the film?
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
We're still in post-production and editing.
And so that's happening rightnow.
And then once the film iscompleted, we will make an
announcement.
But at that point, we'll beentering it into film festivals
and doing the film festival run.
We might try and do a privatescreening, whether it be an
(08:14):
online screening so that thecommunity can come out and watch
and support.
And then my hope is that we do apremiere in Sacramento where
Monica is and show it livebecause there's nothing quite
like that experience, you know,to watch a film with fellow
(08:38):
adoptees, birth mothers, andpeople that have experienced
similar things.
I will note that since puttingout the trailer, I've received,
like I know Monica has, but I'vealso received messages from
people saying I've experiencedGSA as well, or this is what's
(08:58):
happening in my reunion.
For the average person, theythink genetic sexual attraction,
ew, disgusting, right?
And I think it's important thatwe talk about things that people
don't want to talk about, orthat people have a reaction like
that to, because behind that isa human being that had to
(09:20):
actually go through that and hadto live with the consequences of
that.
And Monica didn't know what washappening in that.
There was nothing, there was noinformation on that, but it's
very common.
It happens a lot.
And so for us to talk aboutthese things, it you know, chips
(09:42):
away at the shame, and then itgives other people the
permission to talk about whathappened to them, and then it
sets us all free.
I am so grateful to Monica forher willingness.
I won't out you in how old youare, Monica, but she ain't no
spring chicken, okay?
She's been on the she's been onthe earth for a little while,
(10:05):
which I mean she gave a coupleof dates that could be like the
people could if they were youknow really in the math, they
could probably have the magicnumber, okay.
SPEAKER_04 (10:13):
My daughter says, You're 69.
That's like the magic number,right?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
I think, I mean, Monica, you look amazing.
You look amazing, but I thinkpart of what I love about Monica
is that she is past the age ofcaring, I think.
I don't know.
Like, do you know what I mean?
She's like, I'm 69, I don't givea shit.
This is what I've been through.
(10:40):
Y'all like me or you don't, Idon't really care.
She's she's sharing her story,not for her.
Let me just tell you that.
It is not for her.
It is for people to come and seeand experience and to relate and
to not feel so alone.
(11:00):
If we keep that in mind and keepmoving forward in that way, I
think it's just we're movingforward in a good way.
And that's what the indigenouspeople say.
We're going to do this in a goodway.
Corey (11:12):
Well, listeners, in case you were going to ask her,
Monica has zero fucks left togive.
So don't even ask her for one.
SPEAKER_04 (12:19):
It's true.
I mean, yeah, for sure, but myheart wants to be helpful.
Yeah, no, I say that in jest.
I I'm good with who my who I amtoday for the most part.
You know, there's alwaysimprovements to be made.
The main reason that I came outwith came out came out of the
(12:40):
closet with GSA is because thereare so many donor-conceived
people now and children.
And my grandson isdonor-conceived.
And I have a friend who has adaughter that was
donor-conceived, she's in her20s, and I remember a few years
ago, he was telling me how shewas going back to the Midwest to
(13:01):
have a big party for the weekendwith all her 20 whatever
siblings.
And I'm thinking, oh my god,because the attraction is so
powerful.
They describe it in the verylittle research that's done on
this.
And I hope that this film willhelp create more research on
(13:23):
this and bring it aware becausenow we're going to have so many
people meeting, and then thatshame that I lived with it's
very hard to.
I wasn't drunk or wasn't highwhen this occurred.
It was so powerful, it was suchan attraction.
It was spiritual, emotionals,physical, it was all the things.
(13:44):
And it was impossible for me toresist it.
But I was 23 years old, and alot of these young people that
are, you know, finding theirsiblings are young.
And it doesn't matter how oldyou are, you can be 37, you can
be 48.
You find these people, ithappens between mother and son,
father and daughter, betweenmostly siblings of the opposite
(14:07):
sex, most often.
And you know, it's a publicservice announcement.
Corey (14:11):
I don't think people understand like how many
children can be born from onedonor in the same region and
they're only distributing thesperm to the same region.
So like we're talking aboutpeople that are in high school
together, that have no idea, andyou know, think about where you
are when you're in high schooland the emotions are already
high and the horiness is there,and all of that.
(14:33):
And it's like then you throwthis into the mix.
I think it's really importantthat this is being talked about
in the movie.
And to piggyback on what both ofyou were saying, I think it's
important for therapists to seethis movie because there aren't
enough therapists who evenunderstand the concept of this.
So how could they possibly helpsomebody through it?
And I know that there aredefinitely some wonderful,
(14:55):
passionate therapists in ourcommunity that are always
learning more and doing theresearch and stuff.
But I think, yeah, that'sdefinitely an audience that you
want to aim for.
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
The amount of adoptees that especially with
the DNA and everything, to goout and start looking for your
family and enter into reunion, Ithink it's important that
adoptees or donor-conceivedindividuals understand that
genetic sexual attraction is athing.
(15:27):
And so that if they know thatbefore they enter into reunion,
they can have, you know, theycan be at least just have an
awareness that, okay, this ispossible.
And if I am having thesefeelings, I'm not a weirdo, I'm
not depraved, I'm not a pervert.
Like, you know, all of thejudgmental things that we would
(15:49):
say to ourselves that this isnormal.
Leslie Pate McKinnon, she hassomething on her website that it
talks about genetic sexualattraction.
So Leslie Pate McKinnon,LCSW.com, and she says genetic
sexual attraction is the termfor a meeting between biological
(16:10):
relatives who have previouslyhad little or no contact.
With the increase in reunions,the report of incidents of
genetic sexual attraction or GSAas it is commonly referred to
has increased not only in the USand also worldwide.
Most individuals experiencingthe intense emotions of a
(16:31):
reunion describe a strongfeeling of simply genetic
attraction and is defined as afascination bordering on
obsession with the newly foundrelative, as well as with many
similarities that they have seenmirrored in one another.
Even doing this podcast, maybethere's somebody here listening
(16:51):
that has entered into reunionand they're having this very
intense relationship with afamily member, and they're like,
oh, okay, boundaries need to beset.
Because at the end of the day,if you end up entering into a
relationship with a familymember, most likely the
(17:13):
relationship is gonna end upbeing severed, right?
So it's yet another loss for us.
And we've had enough of those,right?
Corey (17:24):
Yeah, Leslie touched on that on her episode of Family
Twists.
So I will link to her websiteand the episode if people want
to listen to that.
Leslie's fantastic, by the way.
People if you haven't listenedto her episode yet.
SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
Yeah, she's fiery.
I like, I like her.
Corey (17:40):
Oh, yeah.
We had a little tech issue thatwe had to reschedule, and I was
like, ooh, she is a firecracker.
SPEAKER_04 (17:49):
She's also a Bark Mother.
Yeah.
Corey (17:51):
I told her I'm like, well, I I can't I can't fix this
tech issue right now, but Ipromise I will give you the
biggest hug you've ever had whenwe meet in Atlanta, and we did.
Fantastic.
Love that you're they're sharingthis.
I can't wait to see thedocumentary.
And as you might be aware, thelast question that we always ask
on the podcast is when you'regoing through all of this, and
(18:12):
maybe this is be like goingthrough the the process of
making the movie, or or Monicabeing willing to talk about
stuff that you haven't talkedabout before.
Is there a song or a musicalartist that you lean on in those
times?
SPEAKER_04 (18:26):
I'm not big on lyrics because I think I have
something called audioprocessing disorder and I can't
hear the lyrics.
But the song that has alwaysresonated to me and makes me cry
every time I hear it is AmazingGrace.
Corey (18:45):
I that one gets me too.
That one really gets me.
Yeah.
And I'm not a religious personby any means, but if they if I
hear that at a funeral, oh boy,it's all the waterworks are
coming.
SPEAKER_04 (18:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
I am a musician, but five years ago when my mom
passed away, I stopped listeningto music because it evoked too
much emotion in me.
And it's just been in the lastprobably six months that I've
started to listen started tolisten to music again because I
(19:19):
felt like my heart can handlethat.
Corey (19:22):
I just, wow, I just that just kind of hit me hard because
like music is so important inour lives.
Music is on all the time.
Like, I'm probably gonna endthis afternoon before Kendall
comes home with doing some whatI like to call koreok.
Oh, I love that.
Oh wow.
Crystal, that really hits me.
Like, I can't imagine going fiveyears without music.
(19:44):
Yeah, I mean, not completely Ihear you, but I mean feeling it,
yeah, feeling that stronglyabout your mother's passing and
that affecting you that way.
That's that's powerful.
And I'm glad that you know,music has started to come back
into your life.
SPEAKER_04 (19:56):
Most of my music that I listen to is 70s music,
because that's the best music.
I mean, some really good stuffin the 70s, and it reminds me of
good times, you know, when I wasdoing lots of LSD and life was
wonderful, you know.
I love that I loved LSD too.
And I I think it was probablysomething that really helped me
(20:16):
really during my youth, youknow.
I think it was medicine for me.
But I my daughter teaches hotpower vinyasa flow yoga, and she
has such a gift for music, andher playlists are beautiful.
So I follow her on Spotify, andI will play them in my home, and
(20:37):
I'll sit at the at the table andplay old school solitaire and
turn on some of her playlistsand just look out my window.
So, but no particular song ifunless it were something of the
70s.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Okay, I do have one.
SPEAKER_04 (20:53):
Please, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
And we play this as a family in the car all the
time.
It's called It's a Great Day toBe Alive.
It's a good one.
It's about, you know, just beinggrateful for you know, the sun
shining and the breath in yourlungs, and and so that's one.
Corey (21:10):
Who's the artist?
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Oh, it's Travis Tritt.
Yeah, Travis Tritt.
It's a great day to be alive.
It is.
It is.
Corey (21:18):
The music of the 70s is amazing, and it's definitely a
touchstone for me for you know,my dad is is past, so when I
hear Credence and and LedZeppelin and Aerosmith and
stuff, then it reminds me ofhim.
And we just lost Kendall's dad acouple of months ago.
And the same with like Credenceand Deep Purple, and and like
Fleetwood Mac is probably myfavorite band, and it's my mom's
(21:40):
favorite band.
So that's something that we'vebeen able to bond over.
And I even took her to meet MickFleetwood, and I I knew she was
going to embarrass me, but andshe did, of course.
But uh well, you know, how oftendo you get to to meet Mick
Fleetwood, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
I just wanted to mention too, another thing that
Monica and I have connected onis our sobriety.
Monica mentioned that she's beensober for over 40 years, and I
have a few days underneath mybelt as well.
And so that's been, I think,something that's been really
important to me and special thatwe could connect on that, not
(22:17):
just how crazy we were back inour using and drinking days, but
just the importance of how Idon't think I'd be doing what
I'm doing had I not gottensober.
And I would perhaps say the samefor you, Monica.
Would you say?
Oh, I wouldn't be alive.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
I got sober at 23, but at 21, I got what I I'm
pretty sure was alcoholichepatitis from binge drinking.
And I put myself in superdangerous places.
And yeah, I wouldn't be here.
It it was a gift, definitely.
It's it's opened my heart, andand it's it's I think the theme
behind, you know, the working onyourself and digging and and
(23:00):
trying to be the best version ofyourself if you're really
working, you know, with that.
And that's what I've been doingfor the most of 42 years.
And so and I work with others.
I I coach and I I do otherthings where I can impart the
things that have worked for meand help me heal and navigate
(23:21):
this crazy life we we all have,right?
Yeah.
Corey (23:26):
Well, I'm certainly glad you're both still here.
And I just love that you've cometogether for this project.
I think that's something that wewould all love to see more
collaboration within thecommunity to get these things
out there and everybody workingwith their specific skill sets
to help get these stories told.
So thank you for your braveryand your candor and openness to
(23:46):
sharing all of this with theworld.
Thank you.
Our pleasure.
I love that we're recording theopening and closing for this
episode on the anniversary ofthat DNA alert about Pendle's
family.
Kendall (23:56):
Me too, because nine years later, I still think about
how strange it is that onenotification in my email changed
so much.
Finding Chris gave me answers,but it also gave me an entirely
new family history tounderstand.
And I think that's part of whatI connected with in Monica's and
Crystal's conversation.
You can find out where you camefrom, that doesn't mean you
(24:17):
immediately know where you fit.
Corey (24:19):
Monica learned that her father spoke Cree.
She learned about hergreat-grandmother.
She learned about the medicines,traditions, and history in her
family.
And still, she can say, Do Ideserve to call myself Cree?
Kendall (24:29):
That got to me because she didn't choose to be
separated from that part ofherself.
Neither did Crystal.
Adoption made that choice forthem.
And I really like that these twowomen found each other later and
can see something in each otherthat they sometimes have trouble
seeing in themselves.
Corey (24:45):
Plus, what started with Monica basically tracking down
another Cree Adoptee on Facebookhas turned into a close
friendship and now adocumentary.
Kendall (24:52):
Which seems very family-twisted.
I agree.
We can't wait to see Life'sMother when Crystal is ready to
put it out into the world.
Thank you to Crystal and Monicafor coming back and giving us
two conversations that went indirections I don't think we
could have predicted.
And on a personal note, happynine years to my brother Chris.
Nine years ago, I didn't know heexisted.
(25:14):
Then Ancestry.com sent me anemail.
And here we are.
Here we are.
Thanks everybody for listening.
Corey (25:20):
And remember, Family Secrets are the ultimate plot
twist.
The Family Twist podcast isproduced and presented by Mosaic
Multimedia LLC.
Hey everybody, I'm Kendall, and I'm Corey.
(00:02):
Before we get into part two withMonica and Crystal, today is a
pretty big day for us.
Nine years ago today, I got anAncestry.com alert telling me
that I had a super close DNAmatch.
His name is Christopher Clark.
Within minutes, we were on thephone together and I found out
that he's my half-brother.
That phone call kicked off whathas been a pretty twist-filled
(00:24):
nine years for us.
That's putting it mildly, I wentinto that DNA test hoping that
I'd maybe learned somethingabout where it came from.
Instead, I found a half-brother,then my biological father, more
half-siblings, a whole familyhistory I knew nothing about,
and answers that led to evenmore questions.
And eventually all of thathelped lead us here to Family
(00:46):
Twist.
Which makes it kind of perfectthat we're spending today
reuniting with Monica Hall andCrystal Park.
Part 2 is really about somethingI understand.
Discovering a part of yourselfin middle age and then having to
figure out what to do with it.
Monica and Crystal are bothadopted and they're both Creed.
Neither one grew up with aconnection to their indigenous
(01:06):
culture that they could havehad.
Corey (01:07):
Monica didn't even know she was indigenous until she
found members of her biologicalfamily.
Later she learned that herfather spoke fluent Creed, her
great-grandmother was a medicinewoman, and there was even this
entire history that had alwaysbelonged to her, even though she
hadn't known about it.
Kendall (01:22):
And she said something that I really wanted to talk
about.
Even after learning all of that,part of her still wonders
whether she deserves to callherself Creed.
Corey (01:53):
So how did you two bond over your shared Cree heritage?
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
I think for Monica and I, one of the things about
being an adoptee and growing upin a family that doesn't connect
you to your culture is that youfeel really displaced and you
don't feel like you'reindigenous enough.
(02:18):
I think finding fellow adopteeswho also have had that
experience and are alsoattempting to reconnect with,
you know, their indigenousidentity is there's a real
comfort in that because I thinkwe both see each other as
indigenous, strong indigenouswomen.
(02:41):
What do you think, Monica?
SPEAKER_04 (02:43):
I feel the same way.
When I met my family, I didn'tknow that I was indigenous
actually until I spoke with myuncle, my birth mother's
brother, who was the firstperson I connected with.
And I told him who I thought mybirth father was that was on the
non-identifying information, andhe insisted that that was not.
(03:04):
And I guess I had describedmyself when I called him.
SPEAKER_03 (03:07):
I've always had really dark hair, except when I
was blonde for 25 years.
What I was doing, I don't know.
I thought I was gonna have morefun.
I did not have more fun.
SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
So now I'm brown again.
But I I remember him saying, hecan't be your father, he can't
be your father, he's black.
And I I didn't know what he wastalking about, but that's how
they described a very darkindigenous person in Canada was
black.
And I was delighted, but Ididn't suffer with prejudice
(03:36):
like my family did.
I've looked white.
I really struggled with feelinglike I didn't deserve to call
myself Cree.
And I still struggle with that.
My birth father, he wasn'traised in really other than the
place he was raised, everybody,you know, minute most people
spoke Cree and such, but theyweren't erased with their with
(03:58):
their medicines and the thingsthat you know people do when
they're connecting with theirculture because of the shame.
So I didn't know he could speakfluent Cree for decades.
I met him in 1980, and there's avideo where there's a pilgrimage
around this property where myfamily settled, both sides of my
(04:18):
family, and I asked him to speakCree and to translate a woman,
woman's, you know, that wasstanding in the water, there's a
healing lake up there.
I was just so enamored with it.
And on my Burke mother's side,my auntie came to visit me.
And there was a time in the 90swhen I was really interested in
(04:38):
my heritage.
I'm an herbalist.
I wanted to know the healingplants of my people.
She came and visited me.
We made medicine bags, sheshowed me how to bead, she'd
showed me how to make earringsand things, and told me about
the culture.
I have books that nobody hasanymore because they were
they're out of print on the Creeand our heritage.
(05:02):
That was a really big thing forme.
I in the 90s.
I really went back.
I went to Pow Wow's here inSacramento, and my daughter was
a fancy dancer at the Pow Wow's.
And I also was with a woman whowas less indigenous than I was,
but she was raised by hergrandmother.
And her grandmother had takenher into the woods and shown her
(05:24):
the medicines.
So I learned from her, and shetook me into the community and
showed me the community is sodifferent than what we're used
to.
That was a beautiful, beautifultime for me because I did get to
delve into my heritage.
But my granny, my great-grannywas a medicine woman.
Most of that's not passed down.
(05:44):
I have some knowledge, but not alot.
And it's so sad.
A large part of me really feelsmy creed.
It really does.
And another part of me feelslike I don't deserve it because
I I didn't feel the prejudicethat my family did.
I didn't suffer.
It's a weird place to be.
It really is.
Corey (06:04):
So, Monica, what was your gut reaction on seeing the
trailer?
I think I cried.
SPEAKER_04 (06:10):
Laughed.
Yeah.
When I showed it to a couple ofpeople, the reaction was the
same.
And they were surprised becauseI had mentioned that there was a
documentary being done on mystory.
That's nice.
And then when they saw it,they're like, Wow, this is
really, really good.
(06:30):
And it is.
It's a beautiful, beautifulpiece of work.
I mean, anybody that's seen itwill say, and it you really
light up like I want to knowmore.
And it captures Monica.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
My favorite line in the beginning is when your
daughter Becca says, Doeseverybody like Monica?
Probably not.
I filmed her watching it for thefirst time.
So I should share that actually.
I'll clip together something andI'll put it up on the Life some
Mother Instagram.
(07:04):
So for listeners, go followLife's a Mother.
We'll periodically update it.
Right now it's a little quiet,but you can go on and you can
see people's reactions and theirresponses to the trailer.
And it was really fascinating tohear different people's response
to the trailer.
(07:25):
Me and Chelsea, we always testthese trailers out on our
husbands.
And if they cry, then we'relike, okay, okay, there's we got
something here.
This is good.
This is good.
But Chelsea's a trailer wizard.
She's so talented at reallycapturing what the essence of
the film will be like.
Corey (07:45):
I immediately after watching it, I wrote to both of
you and said, we got to do anepisode.
I can't wait to see it.
What is the future of the film?
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
We're still in post-production and editing.
And so that's happening rightnow.
And then once the film iscompleted, we will make an
announcement.
But at that point, we'll beentering it into film festivals
and doing the film festival run.
We might try and do a privatescreening, whether it be an
(08:14):
online screening so that thecommunity can come out and watch
and support.
And then my hope is that we do apremiere in Sacramento where
Monica is and show it livebecause there's nothing quite
like that experience, you know,to watch a film with fellow
(08:38):
adoptees, birth mothers, andpeople that have experienced
similar things.
I will note that since puttingout the trailer, I've received,
like I know Monica has, but I'vealso received messages from
people saying I've experiencedGSA as well, or this is what's
(08:58):
happening in my reunion.
For the average person, theythink genetic sexual attraction,
ew, disgusting, right?
And I think it's important thatwe talk about things that people
don't want to talk about, orthat people have a reaction like
that to, because behind that isa human being that had to
(09:20):
actually go through that and hadto live with the consequences of
that.
And Monica didn't know what washappening in that.
There was nothing, there was noinformation on that, but it's
very common.
It happens a lot.
And so for us to talk aboutthese things, it you know, chips
(09:42):
away at the shame, and then itgives other people the
permission to talk about whathappened to them, and then it
sets us all free.
I am so grateful to Monica forher willingness.
I won't out you in how old youare, Monica, but she ain't no
spring chicken, okay?
She's been on the she's been onthe earth for a little while,
(10:05):
which I mean she gave a coupleof dates that could be like the
people could if they were youknow really in the math, they
could probably have the magicnumber, okay.
SPEAKER_04 (10:13):
My daughter says, You're 69.
That's like the magic number,right?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
I think, I mean, Monica, you look amazing.
You look amazing, but I thinkpart of what I love about Monica
is that she is past the age ofcaring, I think.
I don't know.
Like, do you know what I mean?
She's like, I'm 69, I don't givea shit.
This is what I've been through.
(10:40):
Y'all like me or you don't, Idon't really care.
She's she's sharing her story,not for her.
Let me just tell you that.
It is not for her.
It is for people to come and seeand experience and to relate and
to not feel so alone.
(11:00):
If we keep that in mind and keepmoving forward in that way, I
think it's just we're movingforward in a good way.
And that's what the indigenouspeople say.
We're going to do this in a goodway.
Corey (11:12):
Well, listeners, in case you were going to ask her,
Monica has zero fucks left togive.
So don't even ask her for one.
SPEAKER_04 (12:19):
It's true.
I mean, yeah, for sure, but myheart wants to be helpful.
Yeah, no, I say that in jest.
I I'm good with who my who I amtoday for the most part.
You know, there's alwaysimprovements to be made.
The main reason that I came outwith came out came out of the
(12:40):
closet with GSA is because thereare so many donor-conceived
people now and children.
And my grandson isdonor-conceived.
And I have a friend who has adaughter that was
donor-conceived, she's in her20s, and I remember a few years
ago, he was telling me how shewas going back to the Midwest to
(13:01):
have a big party for the weekendwith all her 20 whatever
siblings.
And I'm thinking, oh my god,because the attraction is so
powerful.
They describe it in the verylittle research that's done on
this.
And I hope that this film willhelp create more research on
(13:23):
this and bring it aware becausenow we're going to have so many
people meeting, and then thatshame that I lived with it's
very hard to.
I wasn't drunk or wasn't highwhen this occurred.
It was so powerful, it was suchan attraction.
It was spiritual, emotionals,physical, it was all the things.
(13:44):
And it was impossible for me toresist it.
But I was 23 years old, and alot of these young people that
are, you know, finding theirsiblings are young.
And it doesn't matter how oldyou are, you can be 37, you can
be 48.
You find these people, ithappens between mother and son,
father and daughter, betweenmostly siblings of the opposite
(14:07):
sex, most often.
And you know, it's a publicservice announcement.
Corey (14:11):
I don't think people understand like how many
children can be born from onedonor in the same region and
they're only distributing thesperm to the same region.
So like we're talking aboutpeople that are in high school
together, that have no idea, andyou know, think about where you
are when you're in high schooland the emotions are already
high and the horiness is there,and all of that.
(14:33):
And it's like then you throwthis into the mix.
I think it's really importantthat this is being talked about
in the movie.
And to piggyback on what both ofyou were saying, I think it's
important for therapists to seethis movie because there aren't
enough therapists who evenunderstand the concept of this.
So how could they possibly helpsomebody through it?
And I know that there aredefinitely some wonderful,
(14:55):
passionate therapists in ourcommunity that are always
learning more and doing theresearch and stuff.
But I think, yeah, that'sdefinitely an audience that you
want to aim for.
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
The amount of adoptees that especially with
the DNA and everything, to goout and start looking for your
family and enter into reunion, Ithink it's important that
adoptees or donor-conceivedindividuals understand that
genetic sexual attraction is athing.
(15:27):
And so that if they know thatbefore they enter into reunion,
they can have, you know, theycan be at least just have an
awareness that, okay, this ispossible.
And if I am having thesefeelings, I'm not a weirdo, I'm
not depraved, I'm not a pervert.
Like, you know, all of thejudgmental things that we would
(15:49):
say to ourselves that this isnormal.
Leslie Pate McKinnon, she hassomething on her website that it
talks about genetic sexualattraction.
So Leslie Pate McKinnon,LCSW.com, and she says genetic
sexual attraction is the termfor a meeting between biological
(16:10):
relatives who have previouslyhad little or no contact.
With the increase in reunions,the report of incidents of
genetic sexual attraction or GSAas it is commonly referred to
has increased not only in the USand also worldwide.
Most individuals experiencingthe intense emotions of a
(16:31):
reunion describe a strongfeeling of simply genetic
attraction and is defined as afascination bordering on
obsession with the newly foundrelative, as well as with many
similarities that they have seenmirrored in one another.
Even doing this podcast, maybethere's somebody here listening
(16:51):
that has entered into reunionand they're having this very
intense relationship with afamily member, and they're like,
oh, okay, boundaries need to beset.
Because at the end of the day,if you end up entering into a
relationship with a familymember, most likely the
(17:13):
relationship is gonna end upbeing severed, right?
So it's yet another loss for us.
And we've had enough of those,right?
Corey (17:24):
Yeah, Leslie touched on that on her episode of Family
Twists.
So I will link to her websiteand the episode if people want
to listen to that.
Leslie's fantastic, by the way.
People if you haven't listenedto her episode yet.
SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
Yeah, she's fiery.
I like, I like her.
Corey (17:40):
Oh, yeah.
We had a little tech issue thatwe had to reschedule, and I was
like, ooh, she is a firecracker.
SPEAKER_04 (17:49):
She's also a Bark Mother.
Yeah.
Corey (17:51):
I told her I'm like, well, I I can't I can't fix this
tech issue right now, but Ipromise I will give you the
biggest hug you've ever had whenwe meet in Atlanta, and we did.
Fantastic.
Love that you're they're sharingthis.
I can't wait to see thedocumentary.
And as you might be aware, thelast question that we always ask
on the podcast is when you'regoing through all of this, and
(18:12):
maybe this is be like goingthrough the the process of
making the movie, or or Monicabeing willing to talk about
stuff that you haven't talkedabout before.
Is there a song or a musicalartist that you lean on in those
times?
SPEAKER_04 (18:26):
I'm not big on lyrics because I think I have
something called audioprocessing disorder and I can't
hear the lyrics.
But the song that has alwaysresonated to me and makes me cry
every time I hear it is AmazingGrace.
Corey (18:45):
I that one gets me too.
That one really gets me.
Yeah.
And I'm not a religious personby any means, but if they if I
hear that at a funeral, oh boy,it's all the waterworks are
coming.
SPEAKER_04 (18:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
I am a musician, but five years ago when my mom
passed away, I stopped listeningto music because it evoked too
much emotion in me.
And it's just been in the lastprobably six months that I've
started to listen started tolisten to music again because I
(19:19):
felt like my heart can handlethat.
Corey (19:22):
I just, wow, I just that just kind of hit me hard because
like music is so important inour lives.
Music is on all the time.
Like, I'm probably gonna endthis afternoon before Kendall
comes home with doing some whatI like to call koreok.
Oh, I love that.
Oh wow.
Crystal, that really hits me.
Like, I can't imagine going fiveyears without music.
(19:44):
Yeah, I mean, not completely Ihear you, but I mean feeling it,
yeah, feeling that stronglyabout your mother's passing and
that affecting you that way.
That's that's powerful.
And I'm glad that you know,music has started to come back
into your life.
SPEAKER_04 (19:56):
Most of my music that I listen to is 70s music,
because that's the best music.
I mean, some really good stuffin the 70s, and it reminds me of
good times, you know, when I wasdoing lots of LSD and life was
wonderful, you know.
I love that I loved LSD too.
And I I think it was probablysomething that really helped me
(20:16):
really during my youth, youknow.
I think it was medicine for me.
But I my daughter teaches hotpower vinyasa flow yoga, and she
has such a gift for music, andher playlists are beautiful.
So I follow her on Spotify, andI will play them in my home, and
(20:37):
I'll sit at the at the table andplay old school solitaire and
turn on some of her playlistsand just look out my window.
So, but no particular song ifunless it were something of the
70s.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Okay, I do have one.
SPEAKER_04 (20:53):
Please, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
And we play this as a family in the car all the
time.
It's called It's a Great Day toBe Alive.
It's a good one.
It's about, you know, just beinggrateful for you know, the sun
shining and the breath in yourlungs, and and so that's one.
Corey (21:10):
Who's the artist?
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Oh, it's Travis Tritt.
Yeah, Travis Tritt.
It's a great day to be alive.
It is.
It is.
Corey (21:18):
The music of the 70s is amazing, and it's definitely a
touchstone for me for you know,my dad is is past, so when I
hear Credence and and LedZeppelin and Aerosmith and
stuff, then it reminds me ofhim.
And we just lost Kendall's dad acouple of months ago.
And the same with like Credenceand Deep Purple, and and like
Fleetwood Mac is probably myfavorite band, and it's my mom's
(21:40):
favorite band.
So that's something that we'vebeen able to bond over.
And I even took her to meet MickFleetwood, and I I knew she was
going to embarrass me, but andshe did, of course.
But uh well, you know, how oftendo you get to to meet Mick
Fleetwood, right?
SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
I just wanted to mention too, another thing that
Monica and I have connected onis our sobriety.
Monica mentioned that she's beensober for over 40 years, and I
have a few days underneath mybelt as well.
And so that's been, I think,something that's been really
important to me and special thatwe could connect on that, not
(22:17):
just how crazy we were back inour using and drinking days, but
just the importance of how Idon't think I'd be doing what
I'm doing had I not gottensober.
And I would perhaps say the samefor you, Monica.
Would you say?
Oh, I wouldn't be alive.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:38):
I got sober at 23, but at 21, I got what I I'm
pretty sure was alcoholichepatitis from binge drinking.
And I put myself in superdangerous places.
And yeah, I wouldn't be here.
It it was a gift, definitely.
It's it's opened my heart, andand it's it's I think the theme
behind, you know, the working onyourself and digging and and
(23:00):
trying to be the best version ofyourself if you're really
working, you know, with that.
And that's what I've been doingfor the most of 42 years.
And so and I work with others.
I I coach and I I do otherthings where I can impart the
things that have worked for meand help me heal and navigate
(23:21):
this crazy life we we all have,right?
Yeah.
Corey (23:26):
Well, I'm certainly glad you're both still here.
And I just love that you've cometogether for this project.
I think that's something that wewould all love to see more
collaboration within thecommunity to get these things
out there and everybody workingwith their specific skill sets
to help get these stories told.
So thank you for your braveryand your candor and openness to
(23:46):
sharing all of this with theworld.
Thank you.
Our pleasure.
I love that we're recording theopening and closing for this
episode on the anniversary ofthat DNA alert about Pendle's
family.
Kendall (23:56):
Me too, because nine years later, I still think about
how strange it is that onenotification in my email changed
so much.
Finding Chris gave me answers,but it also gave me an entirely
new family history tounderstand.
And I think that's part of whatI connected with in Monica's and
Crystal's conversation.
You can find out where you camefrom, that doesn't mean you
(24:17):
immediately know where you fit.
Corey (24:19):
Monica learned that her father spoke Cree.
She learned about hergreat-grandmother.
She learned about the medicines,traditions, and history in her
family.
And still, she can say, Do Ideserve to call myself Cree?
Kendall (24:29):
That got to me because she didn't choose to be
separated from that part ofherself.
Neither did Crystal.
Adoption made that choice forthem.
And I really like that these twowomen found each other later and
can see something in each otherthat they sometimes have trouble
seeing in themselves.
Corey (24:45):
Plus, what started with Monica basically tracking down
another Cree Adoptee on Facebookhas turned into a close
friendship and now adocumentary.
Kendall (24:52):
Which seems very family-twisted.
I agree.
We can't wait to see Life'sMother when Crystal is ready to
put it out into the world.
Thank you to Crystal and Monicafor coming back and giving us
two conversations that went indirections I don't think we
could have predicted.
And on a personal note, happynine years to my brother Chris.
Nine years ago, I didn't know heexisted.
(25:14):
Then Ancestry.com sent me anemail.
And here we are.
Here we are.
Thanks everybody for listening.
Corey (25:20):
And remember, Family Secrets are the ultimate plot
twist.
The Family Twist podcast isproduced and presented by Mosaic
Multimedia LLC.
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