May 5, 2026 • 27 mins
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What happens when a sperm donor from the 1990s suddenly discovers he has children decades later?
This is one of those stories that could only happen right now.
A decision made in the early ’90s, when anonymity was expected and protected, collides with modern DNA testing, where secrets don’t stay buried.
In Part 1 of this conversation around the documentary Dad Genes, we sit down with Aaron and Jess to unpack how their lives became connected in a way neither of them could have predicted.
Aaron donated sperm in 1994, thinking it was a closed chapter. Jess built her family years later, carefully choosing a donor based on what felt right at the time.
Neither of them expected that decades later, a simple DNA test would connect them, and open the door to a network of biological children, siblings, and relationships that were never supposed to exist.
This episode focuses on the moment everything changes. The discovery. The realization. The first steps into something completely unknown.
If you’ve taken a DNA test, are thinking about it, or are navigating a family discovery of your own, this episode will hit home.
Because this isn’t just about donor conception.
It’s about how technology is reshaping identity, how past decisions don’t stay in the past, and how people are left to figure it out in real time without a roadmap.
Stories like this are becoming more common, and the questions they raise don’t have easy answers.
What You’ll Take Away
- A clear look at how donor conception worked before DNA testing changed everything
- Insight into how families made decisions without knowing what the future would bring
- A grounded, human perspective on what it feels like when identity and biology suddenly collide
Listen now to hear how one decision in 1994 turned into a life-changing discovery decades later.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Hello everyone, this is Kendall.
Corey and I are dedicating thisepisode to my biological father,
Walter Scott Clark, who diedsuddenly on Friday, three days
before his 72nd birthday.
We loved you, Dad.
Thanks for eight and a halfyears of great memories.
Corey (00:19):
Alright, we're back with part two with Aaron and Jess.
This is part of the story Ialways find the most interesting
because discovery is one thing.
Living with it, that's thestory.
And you can already hear itstarting to take shape here.
Everyone's coming at this from acompletely different angle.
You've got the college kids whoare like, okay, who am I?
Where did I come from?
(00:40):
Let's figure this out.
You've got a 10-year-old who'sbasically like, cool, but why
would I hang out with a50-year-old guy?
Which honestly is the mostcrowded take in this whole
thing.
And then you've got Erin andJess trying to make decisions in
real time with zero roadmap.
And then, because this storydoesn't know when to stop, they
decide to film it.
So now your first meeting isn'tjust a first meeting, it's
(01:02):
lights, cameras, awkward seatingarrangements, and someone asking
you questions before you've evenhad a second to just look at
each other.
It's a lot.
But it also creates somethingpretty unique.
So yeah, let's get back into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
So at this point, I am separated from my partner.
And my partner has kept ouryoungest daughter.
I think why that is important isnumber one, because my partner
really believed that biology iscompletely unimportant and
chosen family is very important.
But in the next breath, mypartner has ghosted our eldest
(01:40):
daughter Alice, who she had withher for years, three days a week
after the divorce.
If you're the parent doing this,because there is no rule book at
all, my kid was really in aposition where she was looking
to run to him and like wonderwhy he's not coming to her
(02:02):
school play.
She did not want to replace aparent who's gonna burn her
again painfully.
It was really a good positionfor her to be in as far as being
that young and me feeling likeit was okay to plan a meeting
care.
But yet to this day, because ofthat messy divorce, I'm the only
(02:24):
I've met the most Erin donorchildren of anyone because I'm
the only one who knows myyoungest daughter.
unknown (02:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Who's not been able to have contact with me or Alice
in 10 years now.
Kendall (02:36):
Wow.
I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
It's really hard for Alice because she gets all of
this like publicity now.
And people are like, Yoursister, your sister, duh, and
we'll refer to that the donorsiblings.
And others will say, Your otherhalf sister, then gets relegated
to the status of donor sibling.
And she's that's my sister.
Like, who am I?
(03:00):
I am now a college student and Iwant to know my own identity.
And my kids, like, what?
There's like a 50-year-old manout my 23.
I don't want to have coffee witha 50-year-old man.
I'm no desire to see what I havein common with a 50-year-old
man.
I'm a 10-year-old girl.
Is he into Monsters High?
Because I'm into Monsters High.
And so, like, it was pullingteeth to get her to even write
(03:23):
her life story to him.
And it's basically me beinglike, What's your favorite
collar?
And she's like, Ray, like mysoul.
Okay, what's your favoritemovie?
I like Hitchcock.
And so he was like, Your10-year-old daughter's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (03:38):
Her responses were really funny.
Yeah, good.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
And I was like, okay, so maybe like when there's
two other kids there and you'rethere, we're so close to
Seattle.
It wasn't hard for us to meethim.
We'll wait for the other kids tocome this summer.
We'll go up.
He was caring for his mom.
He couldn't travel to see thatbecause she had Alzheimer's at
that point.
And no matter what anybody feelsabout the donor, nobody's
(04:04):
anti-grandma.
So we're gonna grow up and we'regonna see grandma.
And this is sister's grandma,too.
So you've got this job now,Alice, to gather information
about these folks.
And there's a 19-year-old girl,there's a 20-year-old guy, they
kept buying Alice pizza and liketrying to woo her.
And it was such a better, saferversion of this very big, scary,
(04:31):
important life event for her.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
There were some details we haven't gotten to
yet.
When I learned that I had somebiological children, like most
of my friends didn't, it justwasn't something I had ever
talked about, mostly because Ihadn't really thought about it
in a long time.
But suddenly I had these DNAchildren, and I told like a few
(04:57):
close friends, but we justwanted to like keep it private
for a while to figure out whatwas going on with it.
And but eventually, like after acouple months, I'd kind of piece
together how I felt about it.
And I thought it would be fun totell it as a story.
(05:18):
You know, I have writerinclinations.
So at the time I was living in aco-op, and this was very much a
co-op where people like wereactually living together,
sharing space and living incommunity in our co-op periodic
(05:39):
talent shows.
And talents could be anything.
You could just like tell a storyor so.
What I did was I made aPowerPoint presentation that
told the story of getting DNAtested and discovering these
child children and so so forth.
(05:59):
And I was presenting this to abunch of people who knew me as a
50-year-old bachelor.
And so I gave this presentation,and a number of people were
watching it, and one of them wasmy co-op mate Matt Isaacs.
I mean, I think he had recentlymoved out of the co-op, but he
was still kind of part of thecommunity.
And at the end of thePowerPoint, I took the
(06:21):
opportunity to say, and they'reall coming here, and we're gonna
have a party at the co-op.
So I sort of announced a partywhere everyone would get to meet
the people in the PowerPointpresentation.
And that was the party wasscheduled for July 1st.
At the end of the evening, Mattcomes up to me and he was like,
How would you feel about beingthe subject of a documentary
(06:45):
film?
And we'll film you meeting yourbiological children.
And you know, Matt was someone Iliked and trusted, and I was
like, Okay, sounds fun.
SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
So that meeting was awkward.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
And so instead of meeting the children in some
normal way, what happens is theyarrive in Seattle and then Matt
sequesters them.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Alice and I got a hotel and I remember even
texting Aaron, because we hadbecome text buddies over the
intervening six months, becauseit turns out, like, especially
my kid, but even Bryce andMaddie, like they they're like,
who am I?
Where do I come from?
And me and Erin are like, oh,actually, we have a lot in
common.
We did this whole thing beforethem.
(07:38):
What was your part like?
My part is just freaking harder.
SPEAKER_02 (07:41):
Jess is 10 years younger than me, but we're
essentially contemporaries, andwe just had a lot of adult
things to talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
And so I remember I was even texting him from the W.
I was like, I've been to Seattleand I can see you from here.
We're in the U district.
This is so weird.
Kendall (07:58):
So did you get pushback from any of the children whose
families didn't want theminvolved in the documentary?
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
I by that time I had maybe connected a little bit
with I don't know, a half dozenothers.
But most of them it was withtheir moms.
And they were cordial enoughinteractions, and they were
like, maybe when the kids areolder.
(08:27):
But we exchanged some basic infoand we had Facebook friends with
a bunch of the moms and a few ofthe other kids, but mostly the
moms.
Kendall (08:37):
Makes sense, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:39):
And so there was one other child, Emily, who lives
locally.
She's actually the closest one,and I think she was nine at the
time, and her mom was nervousabout having her meet me, and
she was invited to come to theinitial meeting and party, but
(09:00):
she declined.
They did have a separate meetingwhere Alice Bryce Matt Jess went
and met them at park, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
She was okay with the it's interesting because
that mom was okay with thesiblings, but not with Aaron.
I think other parents arecomfortable with Aaron, but not
the siblings.
Kendall (09:19):
I get it.
It's complex, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
We've since become friends with Emily, and like
Alice and Emily were in the sameGirl Scout trip for a while.
And oh wow.
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
We just asked Emily our Alice yesterday, like,
what's Emily up to?
She texted you back.
What's how's she doing inschool?
She's also like we see them onholidays.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
They're they have become like donor cousins, like
they're in any case, at the timethey weren't involved in the
movie.
I mean, they do appear in themovie a little bit, but for the
initial meeting, yeah, so it wasvery contrived.
They were all brought to theco-op and put in like the living
room and sat on a couch.
(10:00):
And then I was told to come in.
And you can see this scene inthe movie.
I come in and they're allsitting on the couch, and we
kind of wave to each other, butthen immediately I have to go
like sit on the couch next tothem.
So we're all like four in a rowfacing forward, and like all we
really want to do is look ateach other, but we're like in
(10:22):
the least convenient position todo stuff.
And then we're immediately askedquestions.
So this is like a verycontrived, awkward meeting.
One nice thing about it thoughwas like Jess was sitting behind
the camera, and she and I justexchanged this nice little wave
(10:42):
where we rolled our eyes andacknowledged like how ridiculous
the situation we were in.
Kendall (11:50):
But what a nice way to commemorate how many people get
that opportunity.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
And that's also why I said yes on behalf of Alice,
who wanted no part.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
Is because they're young enough that you're like, I
feel like you're gonna regret itif you don't take this
opportunity.
This is really interesting andreally different, and nobody
gets to do interesting differentthings.
And we tried to make it not abig deal, but it became very
awkward.
(12:21):
But it also created thisopportunity for trauma bonding
on all of our parts because veryquickly, like all five of us
were like, how do we get awayfrom this camera?
Kendall (12:33):
The escape route.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
And it's funny for me, it was fascinating because
first of all, I'm a socialscience PhD, and second of all,
I'm the non-biological one inthis group.
So I'm like, I'm watching allthese people who are really just
a lot alive.
Really.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
Oh, yeah, you should talk about that.
And I'm like, what similaritiesdid you see between us
immediately?
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
Eye rolling, short, witty quips all the freaking
time.
Really introverted.
I'm the extrovert and I'm not anextrovert on the spectrum of
actual humans.
But it's like being an Americanin Europe.
Like suddenly I'm the partyhere, and they are all very
quiet.
(13:16):
And but when they have a pun tohaul out of their back pockets,
they're gonna try to one-up eachother on it all the time.
So you're just like, oh gee, Iam the mom.
And so I'm just watching themthe entire time.
And as we're trying to sort ofplot these escapes and stuff, we
were all kind of in thistogether.
(13:36):
And they they move alike, theyact alike, they're all really
linguistically gifted, but indifferent ways.
No, it was it was completelyfascinating.
And we actually at that party,part of the party was we played
a game where the audience theyhad some pre-prepared questions,
you know, like, do you likeroller coasters?
(13:57):
So we decided at before thisMeet My Kids party happened, we
decided this was gonna be like atwo-week thing.
We were gonna learn Aaron.
He was gonna take us to hisplaces and show us his people
and everything like that.
And part of that was going backdown to Oregon, where I lived at
the time, to go to this sort ofhippie event that he goes to
(14:21):
every year.
So we we all ended up on thisroad trip immediately where
we're, you know, the kids are inthe backseat.
I'm mom, I'm like throwing chipsand sandwiches and making sure
everybody's okay.
And I'm like just kind ofrunning the get to know you show
because they're all introverts.
You did feel like you knew howthat person reacts and who that
(14:42):
person is and how to get alongwith that person.
Once we ditched all the camerasand got on the road, it was it
was weirdly natural.
SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
We're like cool.
Parents on a road trip that ourthe documentary took a really
long time to make.
Like there was like an initialyear where there was filming
periodically, and then everyonce in a while they would come
film something else.
Kendall (15:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
But suddenly this year they finally like finished
it and submitted it to a bunchof film festivals, and it's like
very strangely, this was totalcoincidence.
It played in Atlanta the sameweekend as the Untangling Our
Roots Festival.
So I actually got to go be atone of the screenings of it.
Kendall (15:28):
Well, we want to help promote that.
We're gonna put the informationin our show notes and get it out
to the community.
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Yeah, the it's not currently available on
streaming.
They hope to have it available.
Like it's still showing at filmfestival.
But if you go to the Dad Jean'swebsite, there's a list of like
upcoming showings.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
But yeah, somewhere along the line, we became a
couple.
And so, like our shtick atparties is hi, we're Aaron and
Jessica, and here's our15-year-old daughter Alice.
And we we met when she was 12.
Kendall (16:03):
Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
That gets people interested in how the heck that
worked.
And, you know, obviously at themeet your kids party, like a lot
of Aaron's friends traveled tocome and meet his kids because
they've known him for 30 years.
And I I saw that he had like, hehad like his nursery school
friends there.
He had like girlfriends fromwhen he was 12.
(16:25):
It was extreme.
He had like every person he'dever been in a relationship with
there.
So we started out on such a goodfooting for okay, I'm not gonna
mess this up for my children ifwe pursue this, because we did
from the very beginning, have somuch in common that we had done
previously that maybe had to dowith donating.
(16:49):
And then when we met, we wentthrough this other thing
together, and it was all reallyeasy to go through together.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
And we'd we'd corresponded, like we had
chatted online chatted formonths before meeting.
And while it wasn't like datingchat really, we were so bonding.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Yeah.
It was weird.
Yeah, it was weird chat becauseI think when we finally were
dating, it was still like wewould go out and I would be
telling him about his children.
Kendall (17:18):
No, but I oh one, what a great thing to get to share
stories about Alice.
And that's just that's a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
It is a gift.
Today is starting to be likeeight years in, where it's
actually hitting you how thetimeline plays out.
Because the other day I had thethought for the first time, I
was like, oh, but but youweren't there.
unknown (17:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
She was six, and it seems like you've been here, but
you didn't actually like reallyraise her.
You don't know how this turnedinto 11 to 15.
Now she's 20 now.
But it is interesting.
We did it backwards, is our DNAsurprise and our story is that
it's weird getting to know thisperson that has all the
mannerisms of the people youlove most in the world.
(18:05):
Look at him as a person and seeif you really like him for him.
Kendall (18:10):
Exactly.
Which is what I think everyadult child needs to do anyway.
They have to figure out if theyare gonna be friends with their
parents.
It's just it's a bit unique foryou.
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
Most people don't have to think so much about how
they're going to do that andwhat the expectations are around
that.
Kendall (18:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Uh another thing a lot of people want to know about
is like my relationship withAlice.
And again, we're both prettyreserved people, and for
probably longer than maybe itwould go for most people.
Like Jess was very much or intofeeding area.
We pretty much only spend timetogether if Jess is pressing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
They're the identical sides of the Oreo.
I have to be the icing holdingthis thing together.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
That's funny.
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
It was a bit awkward at first, and Alice is very
resistant to the idea that I amher parent and resents when
people like make assumptionsabout that.
And and I also don't view her asmy daughter, really.
Like the we've talked about it alot, and like Alice and I have
(19:27):
become close.
We get along really well.
We're very similar people in alot of ways.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
And I feel like if I did die today, they would just
continue sitting on this couchfor the next 60 years together.
But Alice hopefully she wouldhave sort of like you maybe not,
but Al I think a huge socialpart of Alice's story is people
come at her and are just like,that worked out for you.
You just got to trade out yourbad mom.
(19:52):
For this one that's real.
And she's she will never let hermom off that hook.
My mom's a jerk, but she's justclearly my mom.
And all you kind of homophobicpeople who are like, oh feel, a
real daddy, are really missingan important piece of this
story.
So I think that's how she comesat it, like alone with Erin.
(20:13):
I feel like that's like the bestsort of step parent
relationship.
unknown (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
And that's what it looks like.
SPEAKER_02 (20:19):
Yeah, that's what it feels like.
Because I'm stepdad.
I get it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
It's hard to come in when someone's 11.
That's not realistic.
And the first decade of yourlife is really when you form
those ideas about what yourfamily is.
Kendall (20:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
And they they're not swappable.
I had this like sham stuffedshamu and it got lost and it got
swapped for a new one.
And that was not my shamu.
Kendall (20:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
Imagine that on the scale of this is your parent.
It's just it doesn't work thatway.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Shamu too.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
And I think it's a testament to everyone, at least
involved in our story, that evenwith some of that external media
pressure to make it look thatway, everyone's just we're just
rolling with it.
It's fine.
Everything is fine as it is.
Why would we just try to pushthis story that's not quite ever
(21:12):
gonna be true?
Kendall (21:14):
Yep.
I applaud that because as anadoptee, I lost my parents when
I was 10, my adopted parents.
30 years later, I found mybiological family.
And the number of my friends whohave said, Oh, well, thankfully
you found your family.
(21:34):
I'm like, I also lost theoriginal people.
Those are actual peopleinstrumental in my upbringing.
And so I'm so happy that I foundmy biological family, but
they're never going to replacemy mom and dad.
SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
It's a different relationship, and it's good to
have a relationship, but it'snot the one you lost, and it's
not going to be.
Kendall (21:55):
I just tell them, shut up.
You don't know what you'retalking about.
And these are even people whoremember my parents, you know,
who who grew up with me and say,Well, your parents would be so
happy that you found well, Iknow that.
I know.
And I do I have documents.
My my mother, before she passedaway, had written a note to my
biological mother hoping that Iwould find her something.
(22:16):
So I knew I had their support,but still doesn't make it.
I'm not going to forget aboutthem.
Yeah.
Thank you both so much forcoming on and telling your very
interesting story.
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
Thanks so much for having us.
Kendall (22:30):
Absolutely.
And we'd like to stay in contactand just see if things develop.
I mean, how many children haveyou found now, Aaron?
SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
Twitter.
Wow.
Interestingly, you know, thefirst four I met, Bryce, Maddie,
Alice, and Emily, are the onlyones I've met.
Interesting.
And they were the ones mostinterested in meeting and
connecting.
Of the other ones, like I've hadat least.
(23:01):
Some contact with almost all ofthem.
I think there's one or twosituations where I've had
contact with one sibling, butnot the other.
But my position has always beenlike I am willing to be in
contact.
So like when I find a new one,or if someone contacts me, I
(23:24):
always write back and tell themI'm open to contact, I'm open to
meeting.
But in all those othersituations, the correspondence
has always just kind of peteredout after a while and okay.
That's fine.
Kendall (23:38):
As someone who has never spoken to his birth
mother, I appreciate that youput yourself in that vulnerable
position because as a child, youjust want that chance.
Even if the child doesn't takethat opportunity, you've offered
it.
And that I think is huge.
Yeah, I think you're doingthat's a good thing, and you're
(24:00):
it's not easy.
We it's not simple for you tosay, here's another person to
add to my life, but it's I thinkit's responsible, and I'm sure
the children appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
Oh, I should mention Jess Alice and I did have a Zoom
conversation with a family thathad three of my children.
Wow.
And this was during COVID, Ithink, and when everyone was
doing Zoom things.
And we had a nice conversationwith them for like a for like an
hour.
They look cool.
(24:33):
And after that, we didn't reallykeep up with them.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Though one of them got very into genealogy and then
had some correspondence with thethat one's my bat favorite
because that one, me and thatone, we've been doing search
angeling together.
SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
Yeah, my product Jess has really gotten into
being a DNA.
Finding our no death.
Kendall (24:53):
I want to start doing that too.
I feel like it's a way I cangive back.
I yes, it took me 47 years, butwhen I found my family, it
happened very quickly.
And I feel pretty fortunate thatit it happened within three
weeks.
I found both sides of thefamily.
SPEAKER_00 (25:09):
Yeah.
Kendall (25:10):
It was a make and a lot of people don't have that
experience and really struggle.
And yeah, so I I think it'swonderful to be a DNA angel.
Very cool.
Corey, I'm sorry he couldn't bewith us.
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
Give Corey my regards.
It was nice meeting him at theconference.
Corey (25:27):
There's a line in here that kind of says it all without
saying it directly.
This isn't about replacinganyone.
And you could feel that in howeveryone's handling it.
Aaron's showing up, but he's notforcing himself into a role.
Alice is setting her ownboundaries very clearly.
Jess is doing the work ofkeeping things grounded and
real, which is not a small jobin a situation like this.
(25:49):
And then you zoom out andrealize there are 20 plus people
connected to this one decisionAaron made in his 20s, and every
single one of thoserelationships is going to look a
little different.
Some connect deeply, some don't,some stay in touch, some drift.
And that's the reality.
Honestly, that's what makes thisfeel so real.
Nobody's trying to force aperfect ending onto it.
(26:11):
They're just letting it be whatit is.
And then there's the whole Erinand Jess piece of this, which is
just a family twist moment.
You can't script that, and evenif you did, people would say
it's unrealistic.
But it works because it'scrowded in everything you just
heard.
It grew out of the situation anddidn't try to clean it up.
Aaron and Jess, we reallyappreciate you both coming on
(26:32):
and sharing your story.
There's a lot in here, and Ithink people are gonna see
themselves in different parts ofit.
And definitely check out DadJeans.
We'll have the info in the shownotes so you can track it down
while it's making the festivalrounds.
Alright, we'll see you nexttime, and remember, Family
Secrets are the ultimate plottwist.
The Family Twist Podcast ispresented by Sabois Fair
(26:54):
Marketing Communications andproduced by Mosaic Multimedia.
Hello everyone, this is Kendall.
Corey and I are dedicating thisepisode to my biological father,
Walter Scott Clark, who diedsuddenly on Friday, three days
before his 72nd birthday.
We loved you, Dad.
Thanks for eight and a halfyears of great memories.
Corey (00:19):
Alright, we're back with part two with Aaron and Jess.
This is part of the story Ialways find the most interesting
because discovery is one thing.
Living with it, that's thestory.
And you can already hear itstarting to take shape here.
Everyone's coming at this from acompletely different angle.
You've got the college kids whoare like, okay, who am I?
Where did I come from?
(00:40):
Let's figure this out.
You've got a 10-year-old who'sbasically like, cool, but why
would I hang out with a50-year-old guy?
Which honestly is the mostcrowded take in this whole
thing.
And then you've got Erin andJess trying to make decisions in
real time with zero roadmap.
And then, because this storydoesn't know when to stop, they
decide to film it.
So now your first meeting isn'tjust a first meeting, it's
(01:02):
lights, cameras, awkward seatingarrangements, and someone asking
you questions before you've evenhad a second to just look at
each other.
It's a lot.
But it also creates somethingpretty unique.
So yeah, let's get back into it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
So at this point, I am separated from my partner.
And my partner has kept ouryoungest daughter.
I think why that is important isnumber one, because my partner
really believed that biology iscompletely unimportant and
chosen family is very important.
But in the next breath, mypartner has ghosted our eldest
(01:40):
daughter Alice, who she had withher for years, three days a week
after the divorce.
If you're the parent doing this,because there is no rule book at
all, my kid was really in aposition where she was looking
to run to him and like wonderwhy he's not coming to her
(02:02):
school play.
She did not want to replace aparent who's gonna burn her
again painfully.
It was really a good positionfor her to be in as far as being
that young and me feeling likeit was okay to plan a meeting
care.
But yet to this day, because ofthat messy divorce, I'm the only
(02:24):
I've met the most Erin donorchildren of anyone because I'm
the only one who knows myyoungest daughter.
unknown (02:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Who's not been able to have contact with me or Alice
in 10 years now.
Kendall (02:36):
Wow.
I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
It's really hard for Alice because she gets all of
this like publicity now.
And people are like, Yoursister, your sister, duh, and
we'll refer to that the donorsiblings.
And others will say, Your otherhalf sister, then gets relegated
to the status of donor sibling.
And she's that's my sister.
Like, who am I?
(03:00):
I am now a college student and Iwant to know my own identity.
And my kids, like, what?
There's like a 50-year-old manout my 23.
I don't want to have coffee witha 50-year-old man.
I'm no desire to see what I havein common with a 50-year-old
man.
I'm a 10-year-old girl.
Is he into Monsters High?
Because I'm into Monsters High.
And so, like, it was pullingteeth to get her to even write
(03:23):
her life story to him.
And it's basically me beinglike, What's your favorite
collar?
And she's like, Ray, like mysoul.
Okay, what's your favoritemovie?
I like Hitchcock.
And so he was like, Your10-year-old daughter's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (03:38):
Her responses were really funny.
Yeah, good.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
And I was like, okay, so maybe like when there's
two other kids there and you'rethere, we're so close to
Seattle.
It wasn't hard for us to meethim.
We'll wait for the other kids tocome this summer.
We'll go up.
He was caring for his mom.
He couldn't travel to see thatbecause she had Alzheimer's at
that point.
And no matter what anybody feelsabout the donor, nobody's
(04:04):
anti-grandma.
So we're gonna grow up and we'regonna see grandma.
And this is sister's grandma,too.
So you've got this job now,Alice, to gather information
about these folks.
And there's a 19-year-old girl,there's a 20-year-old guy, they
kept buying Alice pizza and liketrying to woo her.
And it was such a better, saferversion of this very big, scary,
(04:31):
important life event for her.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
There were some details we haven't gotten to
yet.
When I learned that I had somebiological children, like most
of my friends didn't, it justwasn't something I had ever
talked about, mostly because Ihadn't really thought about it
in a long time.
But suddenly I had these DNAchildren, and I told like a few
(04:57):
close friends, but we justwanted to like keep it private
for a while to figure out whatwas going on with it.
And but eventually, like after acouple months, I'd kind of piece
together how I felt about it.
And I thought it would be fun totell it as a story.
(05:18):
You know, I have writerinclinations.
So at the time I was living in aco-op, and this was very much a
co-op where people like wereactually living together,
sharing space and living incommunity in our co-op periodic
(05:39):
talent shows.
And talents could be anything.
You could just like tell a storyor so.
What I did was I made aPowerPoint presentation that
told the story of getting DNAtested and discovering these
child children and so so forth.
(05:59):
And I was presenting this to abunch of people who knew me as a
50-year-old bachelor.
And so I gave this presentation,and a number of people were
watching it, and one of them wasmy co-op mate Matt Isaacs.
I mean, I think he had recentlymoved out of the co-op, but he
was still kind of part of thecommunity.
And at the end of thePowerPoint, I took the
(06:21):
opportunity to say, and they'reall coming here, and we're gonna
have a party at the co-op.
So I sort of announced a partywhere everyone would get to meet
the people in the PowerPointpresentation.
And that was the party wasscheduled for July 1st.
At the end of the evening, Mattcomes up to me and he was like,
How would you feel about beingthe subject of a documentary
(06:45):
film?
And we'll film you meeting yourbiological children.
And you know, Matt was someone Iliked and trusted, and I was
like, Okay, sounds fun.
SPEAKER_01 (07:01):
So that meeting was awkward.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
And so instead of meeting the children in some
normal way, what happens is theyarrive in Seattle and then Matt
sequesters them.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Alice and I got a hotel and I remember even
texting Aaron, because we hadbecome text buddies over the
intervening six months, becauseit turns out, like, especially
my kid, but even Bryce andMaddie, like they they're like,
who am I?
Where do I come from?
And me and Erin are like, oh,actually, we have a lot in
common.
We did this whole thing beforethem.
(07:38):
What was your part like?
My part is just freaking harder.
SPEAKER_02 (07:41):
Jess is 10 years younger than me, but we're
essentially contemporaries, andwe just had a lot of adult
things to talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
And so I remember I was even texting him from the W.
I was like, I've been to Seattleand I can see you from here.
We're in the U district.
This is so weird.
Kendall (07:58):
So did you get pushback from any of the children whose
families didn't want theminvolved in the documentary?
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
I by that time I had maybe connected a little bit
with I don't know, a half dozenothers.
But most of them it was withtheir moms.
And they were cordial enoughinteractions, and they were
like, maybe when the kids areolder.
(08:27):
But we exchanged some basic infoand we had Facebook friends with
a bunch of the moms and a few ofthe other kids, but mostly the
moms.
Kendall (08:37):
Makes sense, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:39):
And so there was one other child, Emily, who lives
locally.
She's actually the closest one,and I think she was nine at the
time, and her mom was nervousabout having her meet me, and
she was invited to come to theinitial meeting and party, but
(09:00):
she declined.
They did have a separate meetingwhere Alice Bryce Matt Jess went
and met them at park, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
She was okay with the it's interesting because
that mom was okay with thesiblings, but not with Aaron.
I think other parents arecomfortable with Aaron, but not
the siblings.
Kendall (09:19):
I get it.
It's complex, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
We've since become friends with Emily, and like
Alice and Emily were in the sameGirl Scout trip for a while.
And oh wow.
SPEAKER_01 (09:28):
We just asked Emily our Alice yesterday, like,
what's Emily up to?
She texted you back.
What's how's she doing inschool?
She's also like we see them onholidays.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
They're they have become like donor cousins, like
they're in any case, at the timethey weren't involved in the
movie.
I mean, they do appear in themovie a little bit, but for the
initial meeting, yeah, so it wasvery contrived.
They were all brought to theco-op and put in like the living
room and sat on a couch.
(10:00):
And then I was told to come in.
And you can see this scene inthe movie.
I come in and they're allsitting on the couch, and we
kind of wave to each other, butthen immediately I have to go
like sit on the couch next tothem.
So we're all like four in a rowfacing forward, and like all we
really want to do is look ateach other, but we're like in
(10:22):
the least convenient position todo stuff.
And then we're immediately askedquestions.
So this is like a verycontrived, awkward meeting.
One nice thing about it thoughwas like Jess was sitting behind
the camera, and she and I justexchanged this nice little wave
(10:42):
where we rolled our eyes andacknowledged like how ridiculous
the situation we were in.
Kendall (11:50):
But what a nice way to commemorate how many people get
that opportunity.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
And that's also why I said yes on behalf of Alice,
who wanted no part.
SPEAKER_00 (12:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
Is because they're young enough that you're like, I
feel like you're gonna regret itif you don't take this
opportunity.
This is really interesting andreally different, and nobody
gets to do interesting differentthings.
And we tried to make it not abig deal, but it became very
awkward.
(12:21):
But it also created thisopportunity for trauma bonding
on all of our parts because veryquickly, like all five of us
were like, how do we get awayfrom this camera?
Kendall (12:33):
The escape route.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
And it's funny for me, it was fascinating because
first of all, I'm a socialscience PhD, and second of all,
I'm the non-biological one inthis group.
So I'm like, I'm watching allthese people who are really just
a lot alive.
Really.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
Oh, yeah, you should talk about that.
And I'm like, what similaritiesdid you see between us
immediately?
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
Eye rolling, short, witty quips all the freaking
time.
Really introverted.
I'm the extrovert and I'm not anextrovert on the spectrum of
actual humans.
But it's like being an Americanin Europe.
Like suddenly I'm the partyhere, and they are all very
quiet.
(13:16):
And but when they have a pun tohaul out of their back pockets,
they're gonna try to one-up eachother on it all the time.
So you're just like, oh gee, Iam the mom.
And so I'm just watching themthe entire time.
And as we're trying to sort ofplot these escapes and stuff, we
were all kind of in thistogether.
(13:36):
And they they move alike, theyact alike, they're all really
linguistically gifted, but indifferent ways.
No, it was it was completelyfascinating.
And we actually at that party,part of the party was we played
a game where the audience theyhad some pre-prepared questions,
you know, like, do you likeroller coasters?
(13:57):
So we decided at before thisMeet My Kids party happened, we
decided this was gonna be like atwo-week thing.
We were gonna learn Aaron.
He was gonna take us to hisplaces and show us his people
and everything like that.
And part of that was going backdown to Oregon, where I lived at
the time, to go to this sort ofhippie event that he goes to
(14:21):
every year.
So we we all ended up on thisroad trip immediately where
we're, you know, the kids are inthe backseat.
I'm mom, I'm like throwing chipsand sandwiches and making sure
everybody's okay.
And I'm like just kind ofrunning the get to know you show
because they're all introverts.
You did feel like you knew howthat person reacts and who that
(14:42):
person is and how to get alongwith that person.
Once we ditched all the camerasand got on the road, it was it
was weirdly natural.
SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
We're like cool.
Parents on a road trip that ourthe documentary took a really
long time to make.
Like there was like an initialyear where there was filming
periodically, and then everyonce in a while they would come
film something else.
Kendall (15:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
But suddenly this year they finally like finished
it and submitted it to a bunchof film festivals, and it's like
very strangely, this was totalcoincidence.
It played in Atlanta the sameweekend as the Untangling Our
Roots Festival.
So I actually got to go be atone of the screenings of it.
Kendall (15:28):
Well, we want to help promote that.
We're gonna put the informationin our show notes and get it out
to the community.
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Yeah, the it's not currently available on
streaming.
They hope to have it available.
Like it's still showing at filmfestival.
But if you go to the Dad Jean'swebsite, there's a list of like
upcoming showings.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
But yeah, somewhere along the line, we became a
couple.
And so, like our shtick atparties is hi, we're Aaron and
Jessica, and here's our15-year-old daughter Alice.
And we we met when she was 12.
Kendall (16:03):
Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:04):
That gets people interested in how the heck that
worked.
And, you know, obviously at themeet your kids party, like a lot
of Aaron's friends traveled tocome and meet his kids because
they've known him for 30 years.
And I I saw that he had like, hehad like his nursery school
friends there.
He had like girlfriends fromwhen he was 12.
(16:25):
It was extreme.
He had like every person he'dever been in a relationship with
there.
So we started out on such a goodfooting for okay, I'm not gonna
mess this up for my children ifwe pursue this, because we did
from the very beginning, have somuch in common that we had done
previously that maybe had to dowith donating.
(16:49):
And then when we met, we wentthrough this other thing
together, and it was all reallyeasy to go through together.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
And we'd we'd corresponded, like we had
chatted online chatted formonths before meeting.
And while it wasn't like datingchat really, we were so bonding.
SPEAKER_01 (17:06):
Yeah.
It was weird.
Yeah, it was weird chat becauseI think when we finally were
dating, it was still like wewould go out and I would be
telling him about his children.
Kendall (17:18):
No, but I oh one, what a great thing to get to share
stories about Alice.
And that's just that's a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
It is a gift.
Today is starting to be likeeight years in, where it's
actually hitting you how thetimeline plays out.
Because the other day I had thethought for the first time, I
was like, oh, but but youweren't there.
unknown (17:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
She was six, and it seems like you've been here, but
you didn't actually like reallyraise her.
You don't know how this turnedinto 11 to 15.
Now she's 20 now.
But it is interesting.
We did it backwards, is our DNAsurprise and our story is that
it's weird getting to know thisperson that has all the
mannerisms of the people youlove most in the world.
(18:05):
Look at him as a person and seeif you really like him for him.
Kendall (18:10):
Exactly.
Which is what I think everyadult child needs to do anyway.
They have to figure out if theyare gonna be friends with their
parents.
It's just it's a bit unique foryou.
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
Most people don't have to think so much about how
they're going to do that andwhat the expectations are around
that.
Kendall (18:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Uh another thing a lot of people want to know about
is like my relationship withAlice.
And again, we're both prettyreserved people, and for
probably longer than maybe itwould go for most people.
Like Jess was very much or intofeeding area.
We pretty much only spend timetogether if Jess is pressing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
They're the identical sides of the Oreo.
I have to be the icing holdingthis thing together.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
That's funny.
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
It was a bit awkward at first, and Alice is very
resistant to the idea that I amher parent and resents when
people like make assumptionsabout that.
And and I also don't view her asmy daughter, really.
Like the we've talked about it alot, and like Alice and I have
(19:27):
become close.
We get along really well.
We're very similar people in alot of ways.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
And I feel like if I did die today, they would just
continue sitting on this couchfor the next 60 years together.
But Alice hopefully she wouldhave sort of like you maybe not,
but Al I think a huge socialpart of Alice's story is people
come at her and are just like,that worked out for you.
You just got to trade out yourbad mom.
(19:52):
For this one that's real.
And she's she will never let hermom off that hook.
My mom's a jerk, but she's justclearly my mom.
And all you kind of homophobicpeople who are like, oh feel, a
real daddy, are really missingan important piece of this
story.
So I think that's how she comesat it, like alone with Erin.
(20:13):
I feel like that's like the bestsort of step parent
relationship.
unknown (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
And that's what it looks like.
SPEAKER_02 (20:19):
Yeah, that's what it feels like.
Because I'm stepdad.
I get it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
It's hard to come in when someone's 11.
That's not realistic.
And the first decade of yourlife is really when you form
those ideas about what yourfamily is.
Kendall (20:35):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
And they they're not swappable.
I had this like sham stuffedshamu and it got lost and it got
swapped for a new one.
And that was not my shamu.
Kendall (20:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
Imagine that on the scale of this is your parent.
It's just it doesn't work thatway.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Shamu too.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
And I think it's a testament to everyone, at least
involved in our story, that evenwith some of that external media
pressure to make it look thatway, everyone's just we're just
rolling with it.
It's fine.
Everything is fine as it is.
Why would we just try to pushthis story that's not quite ever
(21:12):
gonna be true?
Kendall (21:14):
Yep.
I applaud that because as anadoptee, I lost my parents when
I was 10, my adopted parents.
30 years later, I found mybiological family.
And the number of my friends whohave said, Oh, well, thankfully
you found your family.
(21:34):
I'm like, I also lost theoriginal people.
Those are actual peopleinstrumental in my upbringing.
And so I'm so happy that I foundmy biological family, but
they're never going to replacemy mom and dad.
SPEAKER_01 (21:49):
It's a different relationship, and it's good to
have a relationship, but it'snot the one you lost, and it's
not going to be.
Kendall (21:55):
I just tell them, shut up.
You don't know what you'retalking about.
And these are even people whoremember my parents, you know,
who who grew up with me and say,Well, your parents would be so
happy that you found well, Iknow that.
I know.
And I do I have documents.
My my mother, before she passedaway, had written a note to my
biological mother hoping that Iwould find her something.
(22:16):
So I knew I had their support,but still doesn't make it.
I'm not going to forget aboutthem.
Yeah.
Thank you both so much forcoming on and telling your very
interesting story.
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
Thanks so much for having us.
Kendall (22:30):
Absolutely.
And we'd like to stay in contactand just see if things develop.
I mean, how many children haveyou found now, Aaron?
SPEAKER_02 (22:40):
Twitter.
Wow.
Interestingly, you know, thefirst four I met, Bryce, Maddie,
Alice, and Emily, are the onlyones I've met.
Interesting.
And they were the ones mostinterested in meeting and
connecting.
Of the other ones, like I've hadat least.
(23:01):
Some contact with almost all ofthem.
I think there's one or twosituations where I've had
contact with one sibling, butnot the other.
But my position has always beenlike I am willing to be in
contact.
So like when I find a new one,or if someone contacts me, I
(23:24):
always write back and tell themI'm open to contact, I'm open to
meeting.
But in all those othersituations, the correspondence
has always just kind of peteredout after a while and okay.
That's fine.
Kendall (23:38):
As someone who has never spoken to his birth
mother, I appreciate that youput yourself in that vulnerable
position because as a child, youjust want that chance.
Even if the child doesn't takethat opportunity, you've offered
it.
And that I think is huge.
Yeah, I think you're doingthat's a good thing, and you're
(24:00):
it's not easy.
We it's not simple for you tosay, here's another person to
add to my life, but it's I thinkit's responsible, and I'm sure
the children appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
Oh, I should mention Jess Alice and I did have a Zoom
conversation with a family thathad three of my children.
Wow.
And this was during COVID, Ithink, and when everyone was
doing Zoom things.
And we had a nice conversationwith them for like a for like an
hour.
They look cool.
(24:33):
And after that, we didn't reallykeep up with them.
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Though one of them got very into genealogy and then
had some correspondence with thethat one's my bat favorite
because that one, me and thatone, we've been doing search
angeling together.
SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
Yeah, my product Jess has really gotten into
being a DNA.
Finding our no death.
Kendall (24:53):
I want to start doing that too.
I feel like it's a way I cangive back.
I yes, it took me 47 years, butwhen I found my family, it
happened very quickly.
And I feel pretty fortunate thatit it happened within three
weeks.
I found both sides of thefamily.
SPEAKER_00 (25:09):
Yeah.
Kendall (25:10):
It was a make and a lot of people don't have that
experience and really struggle.
And yeah, so I I think it'swonderful to be a DNA angel.
Very cool.
Corey, I'm sorry he couldn't bewith us.
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
Give Corey my regards.
It was nice meeting him at theconference.
Corey (25:27):
There's a line in here that kind of says it all without
saying it directly.
This isn't about replacinganyone.
And you could feel that in howeveryone's handling it.
Aaron's showing up, but he's notforcing himself into a role.
Alice is setting her ownboundaries very clearly.
Jess is doing the work ofkeeping things grounded and
real, which is not a small jobin a situation like this.
(25:49):
And then you zoom out andrealize there are 20 plus people
connected to this one decisionAaron made in his 20s, and every
single one of thoserelationships is going to look a
little different.
Some connect deeply, some don't,some stay in touch, some drift.
And that's the reality.
Honestly, that's what makes thisfeel so real.
Nobody's trying to force aperfect ending onto it.
(26:11):
They're just letting it be whatit is.
And then there's the whole Erinand Jess piece of this, which is
just a family twist moment.
You can't script that, and evenif you did, people would say
it's unrealistic.
But it works because it'scrowded in everything you just
heard.
It grew out of the situation anddidn't try to clean it up.
Aaron and Jess, we reallyappreciate you both coming on
(26:32):
and sharing your story.
There's a lot in here, and Ithink people are gonna see
themselves in different parts ofit.
And definitely check out DadJeans.
We'll have the info in the shownotes so you can track it down
while it's making the festivalrounds.
Alright, we'll see you nexttime, and remember, Family
Secrets are the ultimate plottwist.
The Family Twist Podcast ispresented by Sabois Fair
(26:54):
Marketing Communications andproduced by Mosaic Multimedia.
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