November 24, 2025 • 42 mins
From AFL locker rooms to the News Corp boardroom, Melissa Librandi shares how courage, empathy and a well timed “yes” can change your career and your company. Melissa embodies how fearless leadership is forged at the crossroads of empathy, pragmatism and bold bets.
From pioneering flexible work years before it was mainstream to backing disruptive destination marketing that won “World’s Best Tourism Film,” Melissa shows why the bravest decision is often the most human one.
She reframes imposter syndrome as a “positive nervousness” a stage ready gut check that keeps ego in place and standards high. We dig into her talent philosophy (great leaders listen more than they speak), why a true leader expects star performers to outgrow roles and the art of unlocking potential by asking people where they want to be in five years - and then helping them map the path.
Melissa opens the playbook on fearless innovation: use the data, but don’t outsource judgment, intuition is still a competitive edge. She shares the five global megatrends leaders must operationalize now (from AI to health and wellness) and translates each into practical, small-business moves.
We also go inside high-performance sport, where weekly scrutiny demands poise, empathy and relentless reset rituals (yes, sometimes it’s as simple as writing a list).
Her mantra “say yes and work it out later” comes with the counter skill of knowing when to say no, by listening to your gut. And her mic-drop truths - “If not you, then who?” and “Keep leaning in until you must lean out” are a rallying cry for women weighing career moves alongside life plans.
If you’ve ever wondered how to balance heart with hard metrics and how to lead teams through euphoric wins and brutal losses, this episode is your blueprint.
Key takeaways:
Imposter syndrome and how to flip it as your super power.
Developing and growing your team - a manager hopes you’ll stay but a leader knows you’ll move on and they will help you get there.
Use data to inform, intuition to decide. Sometimes you back the good idea and then prove it.
Marketing technology and innovation.
We cover a lot of ground in this one! Unfiltered insights that resonate with both emerging and established leaders
Thank you to Westpac for supporting this episode of Fearless Females Podcast. Even the best ideas need backing. Westpac has committed $1B to support female entrepreneurs and offer the Startup Business Loan. Apply with your business plan and budget projections for up to $50k unsecured. To learn more, search 'Westpac supporting female founders'. Eligibility, credit criteria, fees & charges and T&C's apply. General advice only.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Imposter syndrome can really cripple people.
Yes, and it becomes anxiety filled and they don't put their
hat in the ring and they don't move themselves forward because
they think they've hit their glass ceiling.
And so I would say to anyone whois feeling that way, find a
friend, chat about it, ask people what they've done in
those moments, because it's really important you get past it
if it's holding you back, yes. But equally, I think it's
(00:22):
important if it's the one checking point that you've got.
Yeah, as you're moving. Forward I like the way you
flipped it. From first steps to global
scale, our Fearless Females podcast uncovers candid stories,
expert insights and spotlights to women shaping the future of
business, from funding and mentorship to mindset and scale.
These raw conversations deliver the practical tools and powerful
(00:43):
inspiration females need to think fearlessly.
And go further. Together today, Melissa Labrandi
will share her career journey from AFL to managing director of
News Corp, Sant and WA. That's why Westpac is backing
women with practical tools to grow, like their Startup
Business Loan, which allows you to apply for up to 50K with just
(01:04):
your business plan and budget projections.
No monthly fees, no asset security needed.
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They've dedicated 1 billion to help aspiring women take their
(01:28):
ideas even further. Because going from grassroots to
growth just takes a little Westpac.
Learn more by searching Westpac Supporting Female Founders and
thanks to Westpac for sponsoringthis episode of Fearless
Females. Eligibility, credit criteria,
fees and charges. TS and CS apply.
General advice only. Today, we're speaking with
(01:51):
someone who's built a career outof staying one step ahead of the
curve. Melissa La Brandy is the first
female essay managing director of News Corp and a leader whose
work spans media, tourism, travel, AFL and consultancy.
She's a pioneer in marketing technology, a strategist who
thrives on disruption. Melissa is proof that fearless
(02:11):
leadership is as much about people and culture as it is
about innovation and big ideas. Welcome, Melissa.
Thank you. It's great to be here.
Welcome to the show, Melissa. It is so great to have you here
and we would love to know to start with, what is the one line
you tell yourself when things get really tough on those hard
days? I'm a big Disney fan, always
(02:32):
have been from a little kid, andI think Cinderella nailed it
when she said have courage and be kind.
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.
That's you, I. Love a little bit of Disney.
We, we love the rain, sunshine and rainbows, don't we, Anna?
We do, yeah. At a dinner party, Melissa, I
know you like those with a beautiful glass of bubbles in
hand. How do you explain what you do
(02:55):
to someone who's never met? You sure the elevator pitch, It
is complex, but I guess if I have to break it down, I help
out editorial teams, tell stories that matter.
I connect businesses with our brands to help them thrive, not
just survive. And I'm responsible for the
brands and people that are within my markets.
So within SA and the NT specifically, yeah.
(03:20):
And final, get to know your question for the start of the
interview, Melissa. Our listeners love to know what
makes great leaders tick. So if you were to tell us about
your morning ritual and how you start your day, I know every
day's a bit different, but if you have your standard day, how
do you start it? Sure.
I know you're expecting me to say something like yoga or
mindfulness or Pilates or a juice.
(03:40):
It's not that. No, it's not.
It's if I'm in the same state, it's kissing the kids goodbye
before I leave. Yeah.
Yeah. And how old are your children?
16 and 14 amazing. So 16 does tend to run, but I do
get a bit of a side of a chip so.
That's a great achievement. So what's the boldest leadership
call you've ever made? I don't know if you can probably
(04:01):
narrow it down to 1. And did it scare you at the
time? Yeah.
I'm actually going to go back quite a fair bit of my career.
So I was not married and I didn't have children.
And I had a staff member who wason who had come back from
maternity leave for the second time.
And one day she pulled me aside and she said, I'm really sorry.
(04:22):
I don't know how to tell you this, but if there's anything
you need to help me, I'd be so grateful.
I said sure, what's what's the problem?
And she said I've got two kids in childcare.
She said by the time I commute to the city and commute back
home, I drop them off at 8:00 and I don't pick them up until
6. Sometimes.
If I then pick up my child aftersix, I incur additional fees.
I have to pay for car parking inthe city because in case I get
an emergency call out, I don't have a village here.
(04:44):
So I need to leave work to go and get them.
And of course, me being single, no children, I had no idea what
kind of a context she was comingfrom.
And then she explained that she worked full time and after
paying kind of all of the thingsthat were required for her
children, she was left with about 150 to $180 a week, which
paid for the groceries. And she was thrilled with that.
But then she said, do you think there was any chance that she
(05:05):
could either change her hours orwould there be any way that she
could work compressed hours? So she would do more hours every
day, which means she would then save a day of childcare each
week. And this was before work from
home was considered fair and reasonable.
So I thought about it and I thought I really don't
understand. So I asked my mum and I said to
my mum if you were working when we were young it would have been
(05:26):
helpful. And she said well maybe if I
could have done some of the things from home, which was kind
of work from home. So I went back to her and I said
well what about if two days a week you work from home?
And because her children were solittle, I said I can't, I
imagine they sleep a lot during the day.
Anyway, I think you'll get a lotdone.
And then if they are awake, you spend time with them and then
are you happy to work kind of prior to them waking up and then
(05:47):
after when they go to sleep? She said yes, absolutely
pleased. So then I had to take this idea
to the CEO at the time, it was really quite a big organisation
and his first thought was this is ingenious, fantastic.
What a great way of supporting her.
That's brilliant. But now what about if everyone
else wants this name kind of opportunity?
And I said, well, what about if we agree to just trial this for
(06:07):
a three month to six month period?
We'll see how it goes and we go from there.
And it worked in in fact, she was probably one of the best
performers we had in the business because of this
leniency. And so I think any original
question was what was something bold that I've done or something
that I'm proud of. And I was hugely proud that not
even understanding really her context correctly, I was able to
(06:28):
help her find a solution. And it really did change her
life, genuinely changed her lifefinancially.
I think it also she enjoyed coming to work, eating time,
quality time with her family instead of more productive.
Because she was. Stretched and I used to say, and
I won't use her name, but I usedto say if I could get 10 of her
versus 1 of someone else that was there day in, day out, nine
(06:48):
to five, we would have run a much sharper ship.
And also you win their loyalty because by doing the right thing
by that individual, they're not going anywhere.
They're they're sticking with you and.
There wasn't really anyone else that actually wanted what she
was looking for. Like if people came with
different opportunities or different ways of wanting to
work, it was always quite different actually was nothing
(07:09):
that what we had offered her, soit was great.
But it's a really perfect example, Melissa, of Leadership
with heart because you, like yousaid, you didn't have children,
you couldn't relate to it. But rather than dismissing it,
you were searching for answers. Yeah, I think we'll definitely
delve into that further as we go.
But yeah, leading with heart. Leading with heart and thinking
(07:32):
outside the box. Yeah, brilliant.
And and now that seems so commonplace, but I know back
then it wouldn't have been it. Really.
Wasn't yeah, that's amazing now Melissa, you were appointed the
first female managing director of News Limited in SA.
You and I met in about your first week.
I think you're in the role. We're at a vote.
I avoid breakfast and we've beengreat mates ever since and.
But I think you know, you've since taken on NT and Western
(07:55):
Australian territory, so I've watched your career grow.
It's amazing. But I'm sure there are times
when you've felt that classic imposter syndrome piece and it's
something that all women relate to at various times.
But can you tell us about your experience with that and how
you've dealt with it? Sure.
Look, a lot of people might sit on this side of the microphone
and say you've got to get rid ofimposter syndrome.
It's it's holding you back. And I don't think my imposter
(08:18):
syndrome holds me back. I think what it is is a bit of
a, a check, a checking point forme and I'll use it in if I was a
professional dancer and I my jobwas to get on stage every day
and for performances and shows. Are you that as well?
Absolutely not. We'll leave that with your
daughter. I think my daughter could be if
she wanted to be, but we'll alsoleave that.
(08:39):
I don't want to live through her.
But you know, you, you get butterflies in your belly.
And I think it's a sign of positive nervousness.
It means you want to go out, youwant to perform, you want to do
your best. I think impostor syndrome for
many female leaders is kind of the same checking point.
And my concern would be if I didn't have any imposter
syndrome. Have I become too arrogant, too
(09:00):
direct? Has my ego got too big where I
don't feel like I need to be nervous at any point in time
anymore? Now, I didn't necessarily feel
nervous coming in to do this, but there is this always this
moment of I'm going to say the right things, Will people be
able to connect? I really hope someone takes
something away from this that they find meaningful.
So, but if we're not asking ourselves those questions, which
all can be related to imposter syndrome, then I'm nervous for
(09:22):
those people who maybe aren't having those reality check
moments or 360° on themselves. Yeah, so I probably view it just
a little bit differently. But in saying that, I understand
that impostor syndrome can really cripple people.
Yes. And it becomes anxiety filled
and they don't put their hat in the ring and they don't move
themselves forward because they think they've hit their glass
ceiling. And so I would say to anyone who
(09:44):
is feeling that way, find a friend, chat about it, ask
people what they've done in those moments because it's
really important you get past it.
If it's holding you back, yes. But equally, I think it's
important if it's the one checking point that you've got.
Yeah, as you're moving. Forward.
I like the way you flipped it, that it's a positive and a
superpower rather than somethingto fear it.
Something to harness. Yes.
To get your stage ready. Yeah.
(10:04):
I love that you've got a reputation for unlocking
people's potential. What's the truth?
Well, thank you. I absolutely take that on board
as a compliment. I think leaders sometimes feel
like we have to have all the answers.
And I think the way I get the best out of people is by
listening, which is really hard for some for someone who is an
(10:26):
extreme extrovert and loves talking.
So I often just want to keep contributing to the
conversation, but sometimes it'sabout listening and trying to
understand what are they actually telling you What?
What's between the lines? What do they really need from
you? What are they really asking for?
And then you kind of help them find their superpower instead of
(10:48):
projecting yours. Yeah, and that's such an art.
Like being a good listener is such an art, I think whether
you're an introvert or an extrovert.
And you definitely do that well because you're very engaged.
Even today you're just drilling me down with those magical eyes
and. Melissa Melissa has very high
social and emotional IQ. Don't.
(11:10):
You. Kelly, you.
Do and it is a superpower and leadership to have those skills.
You don't need to be the academic, you don't need to know
everything, but you have to relate to people.
Absolutely, absolutely. So I think that it's, it really
is just listening Anna and trying to understand where do
they want to get to. I'm constantly asking people,
where do you want to be in five years?
What does it look like? Map it out for me and those who
(11:32):
go to the effort to show me where they want to be and what
it is that they need in this in between to get there.
I'll kind of do whatever I can to support them on that journey.
But then there are people who you ask the same question of,
and then you'll come back 12 months time and ask them the
same thing again and they've done nothing about it and I
can't help you. No.
If you don't want to help yourself so, but those who are
(11:53):
engaged and you listen and they will clearly tell you what it is
that they're looking for. And I've always said that a
manager hopes you'll move on. A leader knows you'll move on.
Yes. And we were only just talking
about someone in my team who's moving on.
And I couldn't be happier for her.
Yeah. That for me, shows I did a good
job. Yeah.
In helping her get to her next career or ambitious opportunity.
(12:16):
Yeah. I love that approach because I
actually often feel when I lose a great team member, I feel so
sad. Yeah, I really do.
So I love that because. You know that there's now more
training, there's interview process like.
Yeah, hard right and you get connected.
Hard as you're connected, you'reemotionally connected.
Yeah, you know, yeah. But I, I think if yeah, again,
if you do flip it, Kelly, I think it's, it gives you huge
(12:38):
gratitude to know that you've helped someone.
Get and also you're very proud of them when they go into
amazing things usually proud yeah yeah, no, I definitely am
that I just always I just love my team so I just a.
Little tear in. Them.
OK, I've got a great question for you, Melissa.
So thinking back, what would be the single piece of advice that
(13:01):
you were given early in your career that you still appreciate
and remember? Say yes to every opportunity,
even if you're not sure how you're going to make it work,
because you will always find a way.
Yes. And I think it's relevant on all
sorts of different levels. I think it's relevant on if
you're thinking about moving house.
I think it's relevant if you're looking for what's next in your
(13:22):
career. I think it's great to be sending
that message to your children and also to the broader
community where you might have an influence because I think too
many times we're worried about, but how will that work and what
will that mean? And the commute time might take
longer. We'll need a bigger car like
you. You can always come up with 1000
reasons on why not to do something, yes.
(13:43):
Yeah, a lot. Harder to come up with 1000
reasons for why to do something,but if you just say yes, yes and
work it out later, yes. You.
You can work it out. Like Honestly, I I don't know
anyone. And I sent this to a friend
who's about to take on a brand new role and has been in their
incumbent role for over a decade.
(14:04):
And in the text message that I sent him, I said I've never
known anyone to regret a move. Yeah, yeah.
Regardless of what the move was,whether it was financially,
personally for career prosperity, I've never known
anyone that turns around and says should never have done
that. Even if it wasn't where you
thought it was going to be, you know, even if you jumped in your
(14:25):
parachute open and it didn't land where you thought it would,
you learn from that. So equally you don't ever say,
oh, I wish I hadn't have done that.
It's not a loss. Maybe you might have done it a
different way and maybe you may have thought about it
differently, but it's learning, yeah.
So say yes to every opportunity.So here's a flip side to that
question because of your answer,how do you know when to say no?
Because I think this is the challenge of women because we
(14:47):
actually are brought out to be people pleasers and we agreed to
help people like Anna and I, probably the worst culprits of
anybody. So yes.
Do you? Do you?
So tell us, and this is a question for us.
So how do you, how do you say no?
(15:08):
Because it's great saying yes and I I'm so on board with that.
But how? How do you?
How are you guided to say no when the right time is to say
no? I think there are other
contributing factors, but I think now this is going to sound
really silly, but it's that gut feeling, yeah.
You sometimes know your head wants to say one thing and your
heart wants to say another. And you, you do have to
(15:29):
sometimes be led by your head and other times you it's OK to
be led by your heart. But I think you ultimately know
when a, when an opportunity is presented, you know, if it's
right or if it's wrong. And you know, there are other
other factors that you need to, you know, if you want to move
into state, you want to move overseas or you want to move to
regional Australia, then obviously they're very different
conversations. But I think if you're in a, in a
(15:50):
business that has opportunity and you're being asked to, would
you like to consider be considered for a promotion, the
answer should always be yes and you'll work it out later.
But, but you're right, Kelly, there are times where, where it
does have to be a no And, and that's absolutely fine as well.
But I think if you start with the mandate of yes, you're
likely to travel a lot further. Whereas if you start with a
mandate of no, I don't know if you're ever going to say yes.
(16:14):
And there were definitely people, both ends of the
spectrum for sure, moving on to the AFL.
Oh gosh. Which is the AFL?
We're in final series, so yes. Which I'm very passionate about
now. I, I didn't know anything about
football, happened to a few years ago and I'm completely
into it. And we won't talk about teams,
but the AFL is more than sport, it's a culture.
(16:36):
Yes. What did working inside that
world teach you about influence and leadership?
The AFL, like any high performance sport across the
globe, is a really unique set ofcircumstances.
I'm sure that each week you don't get your team and discuss
their performance on a Monday morning.
How did you go? How didn't you go?
How about we watch a video of you talking to customers on the
(16:59):
phone? That's so true.
Yeah. Right.
And that's how that's the kind of conditioning that you're in
when you're in a high performance and specifically
sport, no matter what sport you're playing, no matter what
is you're doing. So your performance is well
deciphered I guess every week and the highs are euphoric and
(17:19):
the lows you are physically almost picking up people from
the floor to say it's OK, we cankeep moving forward.
The emotional connection for a lot of people too in clubs is
very high. Now I'm sure you love the brands
you work for. Clearly you do their own brands
and I love the brands that I work for.
But for these people who work inclubs, whether they're players
(17:40):
or the administration side, theylove this club like they love
their own children. So seeing them succeed is
incredible, but then seeing themfail is really heartbreaking and
they take those hits personally.So it's a really tricky
dichotomy that you're working within, I think as a leader for
a leader in that club. And you should also know my AFL
(18:02):
knowledge was extremely limited before I got to the club.
I love that. I remember having that
discussion with the CEO at the time, who laughed.
But I said to him, I don't know anything about the sport.
What I can do, though, is, you know, help you in all these
other areas. And he said that's probably
exactly what we need because youwon't wear your heart and your
sleeve. Yeah.
And it's just it's a product. It's a product, it's a product
like any other product and it has AP and L like every other
(18:23):
business. And so I was able to see it
extremely pragmatically, yes, which I think they appreciated
to some extent, but in but in saying that, I probably didn't
always pick up the nuances on how they the club was feeling
like on a Monday, win, lose or draw.
I was like, what are we having for lunch?
And then people looking at me like, do you know what the.
(18:43):
School. There's no lunch today.
It's like we're not eating, we're only having dried
biscuits. I'm a little bit confused.
So I guess every day for me is because my glass is always half
full. It doesn't matter what happened
yesterday or the day before. Yes, we can learn from it and
yes it can maybe build us up andmake us better by the end of the
day. We have to focus on today.
(19:04):
Yes, we can't keep living in thepast.
So let's focus on today and whatcan we take from the weekends
loss or win and move it into into the future.
But I think you need to be the kind of leadership that I think
works best in that environment is level headedness, real poise,
being a pragmatist and also I think having a bucket loads of
(19:24):
empathy because you've got people that are riding an
emotional roller coaster week in, week out and it's really
tough. And now that the women's season
kind of carries on, there is no break.
There used to be a break mid season, you know, post season,
post finals, but the women have already now started so there is
actually no break. Now you're riding this emotional
roller coaster week in, week out, 52 weeks of the year.
(19:47):
Yeah, I hadn't thought about that because I was.
I was thinking you get that on off period with football but you
don't. Know absolutely not Yeah, there
is no on off. You are are.
You for women, men. So you're in for women?
Is that the women? It's been outstanding for
strength, yeah. Well, that really leads us into
fearless innovation. So I'd love to ask you, what
does that actually look like in real life for you, Melissa?
(20:08):
Look, I could give you a whole heap of considerations, data,
facts, projections, trends, and I'm sure that's what most people
do in their businesses and they should.
That's absolutely the right way of assessing.
But I think we've lost a lot of what does your intuition say
about your customer? What does your intuition say
about this brand? Or who do you really think is
(20:30):
going to be connected to this emotionally?
And I think we have lost a lot of.
Should we just take that chance?Yeah.
Because now everything is so to the dollar.
You know, you want every dollar of your advertising to work
harder than it's ever worked before.
You want to see, you know, on your analytics what happened
overnight. You know, there are just so many
(20:50):
measurements. There's so much data now that's.
Right, the metrics. I just wonder if we've kind of,
you know, I just wonder if business owners and leaders have
just forgotten that sometimes it's OK to just take a chance on
something you really believe in and you're either fail fast and
you'll move on. Yeah.
Or it could just be that one golden nugget you've been
looking for in your business. So it's.
(21:11):
Based on experience, I mean, you're not doing that at 18,
you're you're doing it with years of experience.
Absolutely, yeah. And this is a theme through this
podcast is tapping into your intuition, trusting your gut,
and being human about your decisions and your leadership.
I don't think all of our decisions can be robotic.
(21:32):
I mean, if that's the case, you might need humans in the next
decade once AI automatically attacks over.
So I I think there still has to be that human element, exactly
what you just said, Anna. And that's what I think we
bring. What we bring is a very, very
different psyche to a conversation to be able to say,
have you ever thought about or do you think this could work?
(21:53):
And again, you'll probably find as many reasons as to why it
will and why it won't work. But maybe sometimes it's just
worth taking a shot. And I think that's lost a lot in
leadership now, yes, because we're so governed.
Yeah, and I, you have this greatability to ask the right
questions even as a friend. And when we're talking about
business or just personal life, you, you're really tapping into
(22:14):
your gut for other people. It's great.
Like you pose these questions, it's like I never even thought
of that for myself. But she's in my brain, you know,
it's a great skill and somethingthat, you know, we're we're all
trying to work on. And as I've always said, I want
to be. Melissa when I grow up.
When I grow up, I want to be her.
(22:35):
Thank you, Anna. But like, yeah, I think it's
just, well, look, as you say, it's years of experience, You're
a subject matter expert in what you do as is.
Kelly, if there was something I wanted to know about an E
commerce business or you know, how you go from kind of founder,
managing director in growth in business, you'd be the people
I'd come to. So I think we all just have a
very different sense of what subject matter expertise is and
(22:58):
we will have it in different areas, which is what makes us
all unique and wonderful. Exactly.
We're going to talk about your fantastic campaign that you
worked on Barossa Bay Consumed. It was named the world's best
tourism film as a bold destination marketing initiative
that positioned the Barossa Valley as a world class food and
wine region. Now, Melissa, why did this work?
(23:20):
Why did this work? This probably leads into the
last question we just spoke about, which was maybe sometimes
you just have to go with a really good idea.
Most people who would have seen this creative concept on paper
would never ever have agreed to push forward with it.
And the team at the time were really adamant that we had to do
something different. In destination marketing.
(23:40):
There's a bit of a running joke that a beach is a beach is a
beach, and I have pronounced that, really.
Clearly. For it not to be confused and
there is only so many turquoise waters and white sand that you
can see and it could be Hawaii, it could be Broome, it could be
Silver Sands here in South Australia.
(24:01):
So a beach is the beach is the beach.
It it had to stand out. Tourism slash destination
marketing needs to kind of standon its own 2 feet.
And I think what that campaign did was it spoke to, maybe it
spoke to we all know that in, you know, moments are made up of
important things, people place and experience.
(24:22):
And you're kind of if you're in the right place at the right
time, you are left with a feeling of, Oh my gosh, I want
to get that feeling back again. And I think that maybe what this
ATV commercial did, which was filmed more in a cinematic view,
so it was almost like it's own little short movie.
It was, I think a lot of people,that's what they expected from a
world class food and wine region.
They wanted to experience something, you know, life
(24:43):
changing, almost like they wanted to smell wine.
They wanted to walk through vineyards.
I don't think I necessarily wantto roll around and dirt like the
girl did and depicted or, you know, sing along to a red right
hand. I think what it did was it just,
it made people stop in their tracks and go, wait, what is SA
trying to tell you here? Oh, they're advertising the
(25:03):
Barossa, which is the food and wine Mecca really of Australia.
And so I think it was so different, Anna, that it just
got people looking at it and youloved it or you hated it.
But it's supposed to be authenticity of the region and
we consulted with the region so heavily.
So the region was on board and they wanted to amplify it far
and wide. And I think at the moment
(25:24):
destination marketing gets really lost because you're not
quite sure where that is. You know, you want to take a
drive. Well, what's what's the drive
holiday or how much it costs to fly and, and kind of all of the
semantics get in the way of what's a really big idea.
And I think what this was was a really big idea.
That said, here is an incredibledestination.
You'll love every moment that you're in this region.
(25:45):
Yeah. And we guarantee you'll leave
you know a better version of yourself once.
You see that tapping into the emotion.
Yeah, but it was also a campaignthat I remember running and
there was a real talk about people loving it or hating it
because it was so. Love it was.
Because it was so different to what had been done before.
And I think that's the beauty ofit.
You were brave and you were bold.
Yeah. And so you have to be ready for
(26:08):
people who don't like what you're doing because that means
you've been successful. Actually, it's like amazing art,
you know, like something that's really controversial on.
Yeah. And we were running and we were
working in a government agency, you know, heavily governed, you
know, the premier right through to the tourism minister at the
time. We had to ask for additional
funding. It was.
Hard to get it across of course.It was because for the reasons
(26:29):
that Kelly has just said, like, and I couldn't show you the
finished product. Yes, I needed the money before I
could run film it to be able to give you the finished product.
Yeah. You know, and now to this day, a
lot of people always say, Oh yes, you know, you're gonna.
Know it so people. Know it.
Yeah, so. It's as much the selling and the
confidence. Absolutely.
As I think it's a bravery too, like it's that bravery to do
(26:51):
something different and. Again, it probably circles back
to the question a couple of questions ago.
It was a good idea and we backedit.
We backed it wholeheartedly and we kind of all knew our jobs
were on the line too, because ifthis was either going to work or
it wasn't. But you had your region on board
and that's also really. Critical.
That was very powerful. Very powerful.
Yeah, amazing. That's so good.
(27:11):
Well, let's talk about another sort of interesting part of your
career, which was around marketing technology, which a
lot of people in marketing know it as martech before people
could even really spell, spell it.
What made you bet big on that soearly?
Like you could say again, that was another most bold moves that
(27:31):
you made. You went, I'm backing this.
This is where marketing's going like.
Yeah. At that moment in time for
marketers, we were being asked by CFOs and CEOs how can you
make your marketing dollar go further?
And there really wasn't an answer to that because what we
were really looking for was somekind of segmentation which
didn't exist. Now you can segment, you know,
(27:53):
anything you want right by eye colour, by hair, by, you know,
all sorts of preferences. And that didn't really exist.
So what we were looking for was how was it that we could talk to
people who are generally interested in our products slash
services. So there was a real crossroad, I
think in the early 2000s where you either stayed the marketer
that you knew, which was a traditional marketing approach,
(28:16):
or you walked into the unknown and it really was unknown.
There wasn't anyone doing this at all.
And you had to embrace marketingtechnology for what it was.
And then whether you would move forward and take on advertising
technology, which is ad tech. And how is the advertising
technology going to help you work harder, help your money,
Sorry, work harder and faster for you.
At that time I had two incredible people in my context,
(28:39):
Omri Gogdon and Sam Smith, both who unfortunately no longer walk
on this earth side but were instrumental in helping me
understand and navigate what it could look like because I was in
a small market and are in a scaled business.
But if, if offshore weren't doing this or if NSW weren't
(29:02):
doing this, so Victoria was wasn't doing this, then why
would we need to consider it? And that was almost our
differentiation was because we can, because we're a little bit
more agile and we were a little bit more kind of open to change
because it was either going to work or it wasn't.
And then, you know, once you kind of start, once you kind of
make up your mind that you're onthis journey, everything kind of
then fits in together. And we realised really quickly
(29:24):
that we were absolutely forward thinkers in what we were doing.
And who were you with at this stage when you?
Yeah, I was with the South Korean Tourism Commission.
Yeah, yeah. Do you think around that time
too because I have have a background in marketing as well,
but I remember in those early days of marketing when things
got tight, the first budget thatwent was marketing always and.
Still is Kelly, still is. I think that's changing like in
(29:47):
my experience, because I think that marketing LED organisations
actually grow faster. And I think that this martech
pace and the evidence and the data we now put behind things,
it actually gives case studies to prove that what we're doing
is driving great results. Would you agree?
Is that like, is that where martech sort of?
So yeah, yeah, I do. I do agree with that.
But I do still think that there is often when there is budgets
(30:10):
to be cut, I think marketing still unfortunately is one of
the, what I would say, an easiertarget because, well, you can't
take away finance jobs because you know who will count the
numbers and you can't take away HR jobs because something might
go wrong and we might need thosepeople.
And so when you kind of go through a traditional
organisational structure, I do still think that sometimes
marketing is unfairly deducted. But I think you're right there.
(30:33):
We're able to justify, you know,marketers are now able to
justify so much more through thedollar.
What it is. What is happening with this?
And produce a business. Case and they can also now
produce a case which says you can take that away, but
understand that that's going to equate to X amount of dollars in
sales. Yeah, yeah.
And. So if you're happy to forgo
those sales, then we're happy toforgo the budget.
So to your point, Kelly, I thinkyou're absolutely spot on.
(30:55):
Marketing technology and advertising technology has
empowered marketers to become much.
More valued I. Think valued in their
organisations? Most definitely.
I think the CMO role has now kind of really jumped in in its
on AC suite as well. Yes, great.
Yeah. Melissa, now we're going to
delve into future vision and trends, global mega trends.
(31:18):
What's the one business leaders aren't paying enough attention
to right now? Yeah.
That's a great question, Anna. I love talking about global mega
trends. So I'm actually going to read
for you first, what is a global mega trend, right, Because that
might be helpful to I'd love it,I think.
Yeah. So a mega trend refers to a
(31:39):
large scale sustained shift thatimpacts multiple sectors over a
long period. So for the next decade, these
mega trends won't change that much, perhaps in the way that
we're talking about them will asthey become part of our
vernacular, but really they won't change.
And the five that I think that probably most businesses need to
be looking out for digital transformation and AI, embedded
(32:02):
sustainability and climate action, globalisation and
regionalization, adapting to changing demographics and
focusing on health and Wellness.So now if I kind of go back, I
think the one out of number one out of that one digital
transformation AI think most people understand what that is.
And my only comment on that would be get on board.
(32:22):
Yeah, if you are not. Absolutely.
If you are not using AI or machine learning apps, products
within your business, you will fall behind really, really
quickly. And I'm not sure that this is
something that your business canafford to fall behind on,
regardless of what size businessyou're in or what you're doing.
So I would say get on board in relation sustain to
(32:43):
sustainability and climate action.
This is probably more around renewable energy, carbon
neutrality and then probably theESG, so the environmental,
social and governance. And are you compliant now for
every business? That's going to be completely
different. If you're part of the energy
sector, that's going to look very, very different to if
(33:03):
you're running a small scale snack bar.
But it's about the conscious effort you are putting into
disposing of products. What is it that you're doing for
your customers to help them understand?
Are you using, let's go really basic?
Are you using recyclable shopping bags?
Yes, because if you are, you're kind of tapping into this
without even knowing that you'retapping, tapping into a mega
trend of the future, if that makes sense.
(33:24):
So I'm not talking about these big scale projects that require
millions of dollars. I'm saying grass roots.
What can you do to tap into someof these mega trends?
Globalisation and regionalization is really about
global reach. So if you've got a product that
needs global reach, go far, go wide, you do that as much as you
can, but you're going to need tobe adaptable locally because if
(33:46):
nothing, if COVID-19 told us nothing more, there will be
times where you cannot get your products and services yeah, from
overseas or you may not be able to distribute globally.
Yes. So is your, yeah.
So is your model available for global scale?
But, but can you pivot if you needed to, to a localised
version of what that is or can you get your products and
services locally maybe at a higher price?
(34:08):
And I'm sure there's a run on slash domino effect here, but
it's just really important I think that you're thinking about
that from a future proofing. Yes, risk reduction.
Risk reduction for sure, and then adapting to changing
demographics. So I think it would be of no
surprise to anyone that our population is ageing and there's
a growing middle class. And so do your products and
services meet the needs of an ageing population and a growing
(34:31):
middle class? And then how is it that you'll
still talk to, you know, Gen Alpha about your products and
services if by chance your products and services span the
entire demographic of of what the globe will look like in the
next 10 years? So how are you catering to those
demographics? And do you need to start
changing things now? There's also a cultural piece in
(34:53):
there as well. We already know that 50% of
Australians are born overseas. And so, you know, all don't come
from an an English speaking background.
So it's a second language for them.
How is your company tapping intothose demographic shifts that
will take place now over the next decade?
And the last one is health and Wellness, and that is largely
(35:14):
going to be around preventative care.
So if you do anything in your businesses that is around
preventative care, I mean, Kellyspreads joy.
So I'd say, but thank you. You know, if there's anything
that your businesses can do around focusing on health and
Wellness, you will be tapping into a global mega trend that
will be so important in the nextdecade because we might not have
(35:37):
cures and cures will cost more. And as our aged care, their
processes change and what does age care even look like?
What does that hospital system look like?
So on and so forth. If there is anything that you
can do or if you're in this space of well being and whether
that's you share Adms with people on, you know, how to do
things, whether you are, you know, have a fitness app,
(36:00):
whether you, you know, speak to people through other means or
channels about, you know, health, yes.
And their well being. Whether, you know, the Wellness
industry is a billion dollar industry and will only keep
growing. So megatrends shouldn't scare
people, which. Yeah.
I'm. Totally speaking the language.
And I love this checklist, Melissa, because it's, I think
when you hear the term global megatrends, instantly people
(36:23):
would think, oh, that's just forbig organisations.
And you've highlighted really it's at any scale and it's often
all the one percenters we're allmaking, making those small
changes that make the big difference in the world.
And that is such a brilliant checklist.
Like I'm, I'm checking off and actually in my mind.
And yeah, so thanks for sharing that with us because I think
(36:44):
it's debunked the myth that megatrends are only for the big
guys, no, and that we all shouldbe playing our part no matter
what we're doing, whether we're entrepreneurs, executives,
absolutely startups, scale UPS, school leavers, you know, these
are fantastic things to have topof.
Mind and school leavers will be far more passionate about some
(37:05):
Yeah megatrends and, you know, other Democrats.
Great innovative approach to it,which is awesome.
Absolutely. Yeah.
OK, let's have a little quick reset because you know when
Chaos hits Melissa and it inevitably does in the kind of
fast paced world that you live in, what's your reset button?
Mine is very very very basic. Go for it.
(37:26):
Write a list. I love it.
Love it. Yeah.
We're we love people, Yes. Do you?
Do you actually physically writeit with a?
Pen so normally I don't. So I've I've been paperless for
about a decade and so everythingI do is very much.
I always found that it was easier before, before a lot of
the AI and automation tools camein.
I found it was easier to type mynotes then copy paste them into
an email, send them off instead of retyping what you've just
(37:48):
written. Yes, but I go back to right hand
writing a list and this could beoverwhelming and this might be a
reset in my personal life. It can be a reset in my work
life, but I just find that writing the list, yes, just
really makes you go, okay, I canactually achieve this.
Let's just block this out. Let's decompartmentalize.
Let's just go, what can we achieve today?
What can we achieve tomorrow? And I think you finally kind of
(38:09):
get back on track. Is it like a mini?
Sort of not business plan, but just putting all your ducks in a
row and just getting everything out of your chaotic mind.
I think that's where the chaos is.
I don't think the chaos is necessarily around us.
I think the chaos is hidden. Yeah.
And also it's that managing yourpersonal To Do List as a mum,
Yeah, with two children working as well as all of your, you
(38:31):
know, requirements you've got from a career perspective.
But do you find putting both of those down on one sheet together
works? Absolutely, I do.
Yeah, I do too. And.
You know, you have the home listand you have the the work list
and you just kind of, yeah, and it's okay.
I think you're also resetting yourself expectations, Kelly as
well, which I think you've just mentioned there.
It's like we can't build things to all people.
(38:52):
It's just impossible. You know, being a full time
working mom, there are differently, you know, things
that we can't, we can't do. It's impossible to think that
you can be brilliant at every single aspect and turn up to
every single thing in life. It's just it's not possible.
And so I think what it does is recalculate.
Yeah. And helps you reset on.
OK, what are the priorities? What must I achieve today?
(39:13):
Yes. And what can actually wait until
tomorrow? Yeah.
And then you feel good because, you know you haven't forgotten
anything because it's all on there for you to consider.
It's sort of how I feel about spreadsheets, Like it's all.
As. Soon as I've got it in a
spreadsheet. Love A.
Spreadsheet it's true, and everyone has their own coping
mechanisms. I imagine you've had lots of the
different answers to that question, but you know, mines
(39:33):
are really, really. Basic Melissa, In a perfect
world, if fear and money were not factors, what's the next big
move you would make? I'd work for the UN and fight
for equality. Go for.
It please say that. We'll be your cheers.
Yep. Great.
We'll be there. You would be.
You would nail that. All right.
(39:54):
And now for our quick fire finish.
So we'd love to ask you if you had to leave future leaders with
just one truth. What would it be?
If not you, then who? If it's not you, then who?
Yeah. So it might as well be you.
Yeah. Love that this.
Goose Bumpy Yeah, yeah, yes. And the way she looks at you,
(40:16):
it's like, OK, I'll do it, I'll do it, OK.
And that's such a a self checking.
Come on, Anna. Come on, Anna, it's quick.
Fun, and it's still promised to bring over it.
Now that's so good. OK, sorry, GAIL, wrap it up.
(40:43):
OK, Melissa, let's call it your mic drop moment.
What's the bold belief you standby no matter what?
I've got 2 if you don't mind if I share both. 1 is keep leaning
in until you must lean out. And my example for that is when
I was seven months pregnant, I threw my hat in the ring for a
new job. Everyone thought I was mad,
(41:03):
including my husband. And then I said to him, but if I
get it, like, will you support me?
And he said, yes, of course. So too many times I hear people
say, oh, I don't think I'll put my hat in the ring for that
because I want to have a baby inthe next two years or the next
12 months. Well, I really hope that works
out for you. But for the many women that
doesn't work out for you've justput your entire career on hold.
(41:25):
No one puts their career on hold.
Certainly men don't put their career on hold.
So you want to be able to keep going.
So keep leaning in until you absolutely must lean out.
So just otherwise you, you know,you then you can't kind of
complain or say it's unfair thatothers have kind of moved their
careers forward and yours kind of idled.
So don't lean back until you absolutely must.
And the second one is I'm actually going to use a
(41:46):
statement from one of my really good friends, Holly Ransom,
who's a global keynote speaker and a published author.
And she has an incredible book called The Leading Edge.
And the quote on the front coverof her book says Dream big,
spark, change and become the leader of the world needs you to
be. That's.
What I've do Perfect night to finish this amazing interview
on. Thank you, Melissa.
(42:06):
Thank you. Thanks Melissa, that's been
fantastic. Loving this episode.
I know we are share it with a friend who needs to hear it.
If you're enjoying this conversation, a review goes a
long way in helping others find us.
Imposter syndrome can really cripple people.
Yes, and it becomes anxiety filled and they don't put their
hat in the ring and they don't move themselves forward because
they think they've hit their glass ceiling.
And so I would say to anyone whois feeling that way, find a
friend, chat about it, ask people what they've done in
those moments, because it's really important you get past it
if it's holding you back, yes. But equally, I think it's
(00:22):
important if it's the one checking point that you've got.
Yeah, as you're moving. Forward I like the way you
flipped it. From first steps to global
scale, our Fearless Females podcast uncovers candid stories,
expert insights and spotlights to women shaping the future of
business, from funding and mentorship to mindset and scale.
These raw conversations deliver the practical tools and powerful
(00:43):
inspiration females need to think fearlessly.
And go further. Together today, Melissa Labrandi
will share her career journey from AFL to managing director of
News Corp, Sant and WA. That's why Westpac is backing
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your business plan and budget projections.
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General advice only. Today, we're speaking with
(01:51):
someone who's built a career outof staying one step ahead of the
curve. Melissa La Brandy is the first
female essay managing director of News Corp and a leader whose
work spans media, tourism, travel, AFL and consultancy.
She's a pioneer in marketing technology, a strategist who
thrives on disruption. Melissa is proof that fearless
(02:11):
leadership is as much about people and culture as it is
about innovation and big ideas. Welcome, Melissa.
Thank you. It's great to be here.
Welcome to the show, Melissa. It is so great to have you here
and we would love to know to start with, what is the one line
you tell yourself when things get really tough on those hard
days? I'm a big Disney fan, always
(02:32):
have been from a little kid, andI think Cinderella nailed it
when she said have courage and be kind.
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.
That's you, I. Love a little bit of Disney.
We, we love the rain, sunshine and rainbows, don't we, Anna?
We do, yeah. At a dinner party, Melissa, I
know you like those with a beautiful glass of bubbles in
hand. How do you explain what you do
(02:55):
to someone who's never met? You sure the elevator pitch, It
is complex, but I guess if I have to break it down, I help
out editorial teams, tell stories that matter.
I connect businesses with our brands to help them thrive, not
just survive. And I'm responsible for the
brands and people that are within my markets.
So within SA and the NT specifically, yeah.
(03:20):
And final, get to know your question for the start of the
interview, Melissa. Our listeners love to know what
makes great leaders tick. So if you were to tell us about
your morning ritual and how you start your day, I know every
day's a bit different, but if you have your standard day, how
do you start it? Sure.
I know you're expecting me to say something like yoga or
mindfulness or Pilates or a juice.
(03:40):
It's not that. No, it's not.
It's if I'm in the same state, it's kissing the kids goodbye
before I leave. Yeah.
Yeah. And how old are your children?
16 and 14 amazing. So 16 does tend to run, but I do
get a bit of a side of a chip so.
That's a great achievement. So what's the boldest leadership
call you've ever made? I don't know if you can probably
(04:01):
narrow it down to 1. And did it scare you at the
time? Yeah.
I'm actually going to go back quite a fair bit of my career.
So I was not married and I didn't have children.
And I had a staff member who wason who had come back from
maternity leave for the second time.
And one day she pulled me aside and she said, I'm really sorry.
(04:22):
I don't know how to tell you this, but if there's anything
you need to help me, I'd be so grateful.
I said sure, what's what's the problem?
And she said I've got two kids in childcare.
She said by the time I commute to the city and commute back
home, I drop them off at 8:00 and I don't pick them up until
6. Sometimes.
If I then pick up my child aftersix, I incur additional fees.
I have to pay for car parking inthe city because in case I get
an emergency call out, I don't have a village here.
(04:44):
So I need to leave work to go and get them.
And of course, me being single, no children, I had no idea what
kind of a context she was comingfrom.
And then she explained that she worked full time and after
paying kind of all of the thingsthat were required for her
children, she was left with about 150 to $180 a week, which
paid for the groceries. And she was thrilled with that.
But then she said, do you think there was any chance that she
(05:05):
could either change her hours orwould there be any way that she
could work compressed hours? So she would do more hours every
day, which means she would then save a day of childcare each
week. And this was before work from
home was considered fair and reasonable.
So I thought about it and I thought I really don't
understand. So I asked my mum and I said to
my mum if you were working when we were young it would have been
(05:26):
helpful. And she said well maybe if I
could have done some of the things from home, which was kind
of work from home. So I went back to her and I said
well what about if two days a week you work from home?
And because her children were solittle, I said I can't, I
imagine they sleep a lot during the day.
Anyway, I think you'll get a lotdone.
And then if they are awake, you spend time with them and then
are you happy to work kind of prior to them waking up and then
(05:47):
after when they go to sleep? She said yes, absolutely
pleased. So then I had to take this idea
to the CEO at the time, it was really quite a big organisation
and his first thought was this is ingenious, fantastic.
What a great way of supporting her.
That's brilliant. But now what about if everyone
else wants this name kind of opportunity?
And I said, well, what about if we agree to just trial this for
(06:07):
a three month to six month period?
We'll see how it goes and we go from there.
And it worked in in fact, she was probably one of the best
performers we had in the business because of this
leniency. And so I think any original
question was what was something bold that I've done or something
that I'm proud of. And I was hugely proud that not
even understanding really her context correctly, I was able to
(06:28):
help her find a solution. And it really did change her
life, genuinely changed her lifefinancially.
I think it also she enjoyed coming to work, eating time,
quality time with her family instead of more productive.
Because she was. Stretched and I used to say, and
I won't use her name, but I usedto say if I could get 10 of her
versus 1 of someone else that was there day in, day out, nine
(06:48):
to five, we would have run a much sharper ship.
And also you win their loyalty because by doing the right thing
by that individual, they're not going anywhere.
They're they're sticking with you and.
There wasn't really anyone else that actually wanted what she
was looking for. Like if people came with
different opportunities or different ways of wanting to
work, it was always quite different actually was nothing
(07:09):
that what we had offered her, soit was great.
But it's a really perfect example, Melissa, of Leadership
with heart because you, like yousaid, you didn't have children,
you couldn't relate to it. But rather than dismissing it,
you were searching for answers. Yeah, I think we'll definitely
delve into that further as we go.
But yeah, leading with heart. Leading with heart and thinking
(07:32):
outside the box. Yeah, brilliant.
And and now that seems so commonplace, but I know back
then it wouldn't have been it. Really.
Wasn't yeah, that's amazing now Melissa, you were appointed the
first female managing director of News Limited in SA.
You and I met in about your first week.
I think you're in the role. We're at a vote.
I avoid breakfast and we've beengreat mates ever since and.
But I think you know, you've since taken on NT and Western
(07:55):
Australian territory, so I've watched your career grow.
It's amazing. But I'm sure there are times
when you've felt that classic imposter syndrome piece and it's
something that all women relate to at various times.
But can you tell us about your experience with that and how
you've dealt with it? Sure.
Look, a lot of people might sit on this side of the microphone
and say you've got to get rid ofimposter syndrome.
It's it's holding you back. And I don't think my imposter
(08:18):
syndrome holds me back. I think what it is is a bit of
a, a check, a checking point forme and I'll use it in if I was a
professional dancer and I my jobwas to get on stage every day
and for performances and shows. Are you that as well?
Absolutely not. We'll leave that with your
daughter. I think my daughter could be if
she wanted to be, but we'll alsoleave that.
(08:39):
I don't want to live through her.
But you know, you, you get butterflies in your belly.
And I think it's a sign of positive nervousness.
It means you want to go out, youwant to perform, you want to do
your best. I think impostor syndrome for
many female leaders is kind of the same checking point.
And my concern would be if I didn't have any imposter
syndrome. Have I become too arrogant, too
(09:00):
direct? Has my ego got too big where I
don't feel like I need to be nervous at any point in time
anymore? Now, I didn't necessarily feel
nervous coming in to do this, but there is this always this
moment of I'm going to say the right things, Will people be
able to connect? I really hope someone takes
something away from this that they find meaningful.
So, but if we're not asking ourselves those questions, which
all can be related to imposter syndrome, then I'm nervous for
(09:22):
those people who maybe aren't having those reality check
moments or 360° on themselves. Yeah, so I probably view it just
a little bit differently. But in saying that, I understand
that impostor syndrome can really cripple people.
Yes. And it becomes anxiety filled
and they don't put their hat in the ring and they don't move
themselves forward because they think they've hit their glass
ceiling. And so I would say to anyone who
(09:44):
is feeling that way, find a friend, chat about it, ask
people what they've done in those moments because it's
really important you get past it.
If it's holding you back, yes. But equally, I think it's
important if it's the one checking point that you've got.
Yeah, as you're moving. Forward.
I like the way you flipped it, that it's a positive and a
superpower rather than somethingto fear it.
Something to harness. Yes.
To get your stage ready. Yeah.
(10:04):
I love that you've got a reputation for unlocking
people's potential. What's the truth?
Well, thank you. I absolutely take that on board
as a compliment. I think leaders sometimes feel
like we have to have all the answers.
And I think the way I get the best out of people is by
listening, which is really hard for some for someone who is an
(10:26):
extreme extrovert and loves talking.
So I often just want to keep contributing to the
conversation, but sometimes it'sabout listening and trying to
understand what are they actually telling you What?
What's between the lines? What do they really need from
you? What are they really asking for?
And then you kind of help them find their superpower instead of
(10:48):
projecting yours. Yeah, and that's such an art.
Like being a good listener is such an art, I think whether
you're an introvert or an extrovert.
And you definitely do that well because you're very engaged.
Even today you're just drilling me down with those magical eyes
and. Melissa Melissa has very high
social and emotional IQ. Don't.
(11:10):
You. Kelly, you.
Do and it is a superpower and leadership to have those skills.
You don't need to be the academic, you don't need to know
everything, but you have to relate to people.
Absolutely, absolutely. So I think that it's, it really
is just listening Anna and trying to understand where do
they want to get to. I'm constantly asking people,
where do you want to be in five years?
What does it look like? Map it out for me and those who
(11:32):
go to the effort to show me where they want to be and what
it is that they need in this in between to get there.
I'll kind of do whatever I can to support them on that journey.
But then there are people who you ask the same question of,
and then you'll come back 12 months time and ask them the
same thing again and they've done nothing about it and I
can't help you. No.
If you don't want to help yourself so, but those who are
(11:53):
engaged and you listen and they will clearly tell you what it is
that they're looking for. And I've always said that a
manager hopes you'll move on. A leader knows you'll move on.
Yes. And we were only just talking
about someone in my team who's moving on.
And I couldn't be happier for her.
Yeah. That for me, shows I did a good
job. Yeah.
In helping her get to her next career or ambitious opportunity.
(12:16):
Yeah. I love that approach because I
actually often feel when I lose a great team member, I feel so
sad. Yeah, I really do.
So I love that because. You know that there's now more
training, there's interview process like.
Yeah, hard right and you get connected.
Hard as you're connected, you'reemotionally connected.
Yeah, you know, yeah. But I, I think if yeah, again,
if you do flip it, Kelly, I think it's, it gives you huge
(12:38):
gratitude to know that you've helped someone.
Get and also you're very proud of them when they go into
amazing things usually proud yeah yeah, no, I definitely am
that I just always I just love my team so I just a.
Little tear in. Them.
OK, I've got a great question for you, Melissa.
So thinking back, what would be the single piece of advice that
(13:01):
you were given early in your career that you still appreciate
and remember? Say yes to every opportunity,
even if you're not sure how you're going to make it work,
because you will always find a way.
Yes. And I think it's relevant on all
sorts of different levels. I think it's relevant on if
you're thinking about moving house.
I think it's relevant if you're looking for what's next in your
(13:22):
career. I think it's great to be sending
that message to your children and also to the broader
community where you might have an influence because I think too
many times we're worried about, but how will that work and what
will that mean? And the commute time might take
longer. We'll need a bigger car like
you. You can always come up with 1000
reasons on why not to do something, yes.
(13:43):
Yeah, a lot. Harder to come up with 1000
reasons for why to do something,but if you just say yes, yes and
work it out later, yes. You.
You can work it out. Like Honestly, I I don't know
anyone. And I sent this to a friend
who's about to take on a brand new role and has been in their
incumbent role for over a decade.
(14:04):
And in the text message that I sent him, I said I've never
known anyone to regret a move. Yeah, yeah.
Regardless of what the move was,whether it was financially,
personally for career prosperity, I've never known
anyone that turns around and says should never have done
that. Even if it wasn't where you
thought it was going to be, you know, even if you jumped in your
(14:25):
parachute open and it didn't land where you thought it would,
you learn from that. So equally you don't ever say,
oh, I wish I hadn't have done that.
It's not a loss. Maybe you might have done it a
different way and maybe you may have thought about it
differently, but it's learning, yeah.
So say yes to every opportunity.So here's a flip side to that
question because of your answer,how do you know when to say no?
Because I think this is the challenge of women because we
(14:47):
actually are brought out to be people pleasers and we agreed to
help people like Anna and I, probably the worst culprits of
anybody. So yes.
Do you? Do you?
So tell us, and this is a question for us.
So how do you, how do you say no?
(15:08):
Because it's great saying yes and I I'm so on board with that.
But how? How do you?
How are you guided to say no when the right time is to say
no? I think there are other
contributing factors, but I think now this is going to sound
really silly, but it's that gut feeling, yeah.
You sometimes know your head wants to say one thing and your
heart wants to say another. And you, you do have to
(15:29):
sometimes be led by your head and other times you it's OK to
be led by your heart. But I think you ultimately know
when a, when an opportunity is presented, you know, if it's
right or if it's wrong. And you know, there are other
other factors that you need to, you know, if you want to move
into state, you want to move overseas or you want to move to
regional Australia, then obviously they're very different
conversations. But I think if you're in a, in a
(15:50):
business that has opportunity and you're being asked to, would
you like to consider be considered for a promotion, the
answer should always be yes and you'll work it out later.
But, but you're right, Kelly, there are times where, where it
does have to be a no And, and that's absolutely fine as well.
But I think if you start with the mandate of yes, you're
likely to travel a lot further. Whereas if you start with a
mandate of no, I don't know if you're ever going to say yes.
(16:14):
And there were definitely people, both ends of the
spectrum for sure, moving on to the AFL.
Oh gosh. Which is the AFL?
We're in final series, so yes. Which I'm very passionate about
now. I, I didn't know anything about
football, happened to a few years ago and I'm completely
into it. And we won't talk about teams,
but the AFL is more than sport, it's a culture.
(16:36):
Yes. What did working inside that
world teach you about influence and leadership?
The AFL, like any high performance sport across the
globe, is a really unique set ofcircumstances.
I'm sure that each week you don't get your team and discuss
their performance on a Monday morning.
How did you go? How didn't you go?
How about we watch a video of you talking to customers on the
(16:59):
phone? That's so true.
Yeah. Right.
And that's how that's the kind of conditioning that you're in
when you're in a high performance and specifically
sport, no matter what sport you're playing, no matter what
is you're doing. So your performance is well
deciphered I guess every week and the highs are euphoric and
(17:19):
the lows you are physically almost picking up people from
the floor to say it's OK, we cankeep moving forward.
The emotional connection for a lot of people too in clubs is
very high. Now I'm sure you love the brands
you work for. Clearly you do their own brands
and I love the brands that I work for.
But for these people who work inclubs, whether they're players
(17:40):
or the administration side, theylove this club like they love
their own children. So seeing them succeed is
incredible, but then seeing themfail is really heartbreaking and
they take those hits personally.So it's a really tricky
dichotomy that you're working within, I think as a leader for
a leader in that club. And you should also know my AFL
(18:02):
knowledge was extremely limited before I got to the club.
I love that. I remember having that
discussion with the CEO at the time, who laughed.
But I said to him, I don't know anything about the sport.
What I can do, though, is, you know, help you in all these
other areas. And he said that's probably
exactly what we need because youwon't wear your heart and your
sleeve. Yeah.
And it's just it's a product. It's a product, it's a product
like any other product and it has AP and L like every other
(18:23):
business. And so I was able to see it
extremely pragmatically, yes, which I think they appreciated
to some extent, but in but in saying that, I probably didn't
always pick up the nuances on how they the club was feeling
like on a Monday, win, lose or draw.
I was like, what are we having for lunch?
And then people looking at me like, do you know what the.
(18:43):
School. There's no lunch today.
It's like we're not eating, we're only having dried
biscuits. I'm a little bit confused.
So I guess every day for me is because my glass is always half
full. It doesn't matter what happened
yesterday or the day before. Yes, we can learn from it and
yes it can maybe build us up andmake us better by the end of the
day. We have to focus on today.
(19:04):
Yes, we can't keep living in thepast.
So let's focus on today and whatcan we take from the weekends
loss or win and move it into into the future.
But I think you need to be the kind of leadership that I think
works best in that environment is level headedness, real poise,
being a pragmatist and also I think having a bucket loads of
(19:24):
empathy because you've got people that are riding an
emotional roller coaster week in, week out and it's really
tough. And now that the women's season
kind of carries on, there is no break.
There used to be a break mid season, you know, post season,
post finals, but the women have already now started so there is
actually no break. Now you're riding this emotional
roller coaster week in, week out, 52 weeks of the year.
(19:47):
Yeah, I hadn't thought about that because I was.
I was thinking you get that on off period with football but you
don't. Know absolutely not Yeah, there
is no on off. You are are.
You for women, men. So you're in for women?
Is that the women? It's been outstanding for
strength, yeah. Well, that really leads us into
fearless innovation. So I'd love to ask you, what
does that actually look like in real life for you, Melissa?
(20:08):
Look, I could give you a whole heap of considerations, data,
facts, projections, trends, and I'm sure that's what most people
do in their businesses and they should.
That's absolutely the right way of assessing.
But I think we've lost a lot of what does your intuition say
about your customer? What does your intuition say
about this brand? Or who do you really think is
(20:30):
going to be connected to this emotionally?
And I think we have lost a lot of.
Should we just take that chance?Yeah.
Because now everything is so to the dollar.
You know, you want every dollar of your advertising to work
harder than it's ever worked before.
You want to see, you know, on your analytics what happened
overnight. You know, there are just so many
(20:50):
measurements. There's so much data now that's.
Right, the metrics. I just wonder if we've kind of,
you know, I just wonder if business owners and leaders have
just forgotten that sometimes it's OK to just take a chance on
something you really believe in and you're either fail fast and
you'll move on. Yeah.
Or it could just be that one golden nugget you've been
looking for in your business. So it's.
(21:11):
Based on experience, I mean, you're not doing that at 18,
you're you're doing it with years of experience.
Absolutely, yeah. And this is a theme through this
podcast is tapping into your intuition, trusting your gut,
and being human about your decisions and your leadership.
I don't think all of our decisions can be robotic.
(21:32):
I mean, if that's the case, you might need humans in the next
decade once AI automatically attacks over.
So I I think there still has to be that human element, exactly
what you just said, Anna. And that's what I think we
bring. What we bring is a very, very
different psyche to a conversation to be able to say,
have you ever thought about or do you think this could work?
(21:53):
And again, you'll probably find as many reasons as to why it
will and why it won't work. But maybe sometimes it's just
worth taking a shot. And I think that's lost a lot in
leadership now, yes, because we're so governed.
Yeah, and I, you have this greatability to ask the right
questions even as a friend. And when we're talking about
business or just personal life, you, you're really tapping into
(22:14):
your gut for other people. It's great.
Like you pose these questions, it's like I never even thought
of that for myself. But she's in my brain, you know,
it's a great skill and somethingthat, you know, we're we're all
trying to work on. And as I've always said, I want
to be. Melissa when I grow up.
When I grow up, I want to be her.
(22:35):
Thank you, Anna. But like, yeah, I think it's
just, well, look, as you say, it's years of experience, You're
a subject matter expert in what you do as is.
Kelly, if there was something I wanted to know about an E
commerce business or you know, how you go from kind of founder,
managing director in growth in business, you'd be the people
I'd come to. So I think we all just have a
very different sense of what subject matter expertise is and
(22:58):
we will have it in different areas, which is what makes us
all unique and wonderful. Exactly.
We're going to talk about your fantastic campaign that you
worked on Barossa Bay Consumed. It was named the world's best
tourism film as a bold destination marketing initiative
that positioned the Barossa Valley as a world class food and
wine region. Now, Melissa, why did this work?
(23:20):
Why did this work? This probably leads into the
last question we just spoke about, which was maybe sometimes
you just have to go with a really good idea.
Most people who would have seen this creative concept on paper
would never ever have agreed to push forward with it.
And the team at the time were really adamant that we had to do
something different. In destination marketing.
(23:40):
There's a bit of a running joke that a beach is a beach is a
beach, and I have pronounced that, really.
Clearly. For it not to be confused and
there is only so many turquoise waters and white sand that you
can see and it could be Hawaii, it could be Broome, it could be
Silver Sands here in South Australia.
(24:01):
So a beach is the beach is the beach.
It it had to stand out. Tourism slash destination
marketing needs to kind of standon its own 2 feet.
And I think what that campaign did was it spoke to, maybe it
spoke to we all know that in, you know, moments are made up of
important things, people place and experience.
(24:22):
And you're kind of if you're in the right place at the right
time, you are left with a feeling of, Oh my gosh, I want
to get that feeling back again. And I think that maybe what this
ATV commercial did, which was filmed more in a cinematic view,
so it was almost like it's own little short movie.
It was, I think a lot of people,that's what they expected from a
world class food and wine region.
They wanted to experience something, you know, life
(24:43):
changing, almost like they wanted to smell wine.
They wanted to walk through vineyards.
I don't think I necessarily wantto roll around and dirt like the
girl did and depicted or, you know, sing along to a red right
hand. I think what it did was it just,
it made people stop in their tracks and go, wait, what is SA
trying to tell you here? Oh, they're advertising the
(25:03):
Barossa, which is the food and wine Mecca really of Australia.
And so I think it was so different, Anna, that it just
got people looking at it and youloved it or you hated it.
But it's supposed to be authenticity of the region and
we consulted with the region so heavily.
So the region was on board and they wanted to amplify it far
and wide. And I think at the moment
(25:24):
destination marketing gets really lost because you're not
quite sure where that is. You know, you want to take a
drive. Well, what's what's the drive
holiday or how much it costs to fly and, and kind of all of the
semantics get in the way of what's a really big idea.
And I think what this was was a really big idea.
That said, here is an incredibledestination.
You'll love every moment that you're in this region.
(25:45):
Yeah. And we guarantee you'll leave
you know a better version of yourself once.
You see that tapping into the emotion.
Yeah, but it was also a campaignthat I remember running and
there was a real talk about people loving it or hating it
because it was so. Love it was.
Because it was so different to what had been done before.
And I think that's the beauty ofit.
You were brave and you were bold.
Yeah. And so you have to be ready for
(26:08):
people who don't like what you're doing because that means
you've been successful. Actually, it's like amazing art,
you know, like something that's really controversial on.
Yeah. And we were running and we were
working in a government agency, you know, heavily governed, you
know, the premier right through to the tourism minister at the
time. We had to ask for additional
funding. It was.
Hard to get it across of course.It was because for the reasons
(26:29):
that Kelly has just said, like, and I couldn't show you the
finished product. Yes, I needed the money before I
could run film it to be able to give you the finished product.
Yeah. You know, and now to this day, a
lot of people always say, Oh yes, you know, you're gonna.
Know it so people. Know it.
Yeah, so. It's as much the selling and the
confidence. Absolutely.
As I think it's a bravery too, like it's that bravery to do
(26:51):
something different and. Again, it probably circles back
to the question a couple of questions ago.
It was a good idea and we backedit.
We backed it wholeheartedly and we kind of all knew our jobs
were on the line too, because ifthis was either going to work or
it wasn't. But you had your region on board
and that's also really. Critical.
That was very powerful. Very powerful.
Yeah, amazing. That's so good.
(27:11):
Well, let's talk about another sort of interesting part of your
career, which was around marketing technology, which a
lot of people in marketing know it as martech before people
could even really spell, spell it.
What made you bet big on that soearly?
Like you could say again, that was another most bold moves that
(27:31):
you made. You went, I'm backing this.
This is where marketing's going like.
Yeah. At that moment in time for
marketers, we were being asked by CFOs and CEOs how can you
make your marketing dollar go further?
And there really wasn't an answer to that because what we
were really looking for was somekind of segmentation which
didn't exist. Now you can segment, you know,
(27:53):
anything you want right by eye colour, by hair, by, you know,
all sorts of preferences. And that didn't really exist.
So what we were looking for was how was it that we could talk to
people who are generally interested in our products slash
services. So there was a real crossroad, I
think in the early 2000s where you either stayed the marketer
that you knew, which was a traditional marketing approach,
(28:16):
or you walked into the unknown and it really was unknown.
There wasn't anyone doing this at all.
And you had to embrace marketingtechnology for what it was.
And then whether you would move forward and take on advertising
technology, which is ad tech. And how is the advertising
technology going to help you work harder, help your money,
Sorry, work harder and faster for you.
At that time I had two incredible people in my context,
(28:39):
Omri Gogdon and Sam Smith, both who unfortunately no longer walk
on this earth side but were instrumental in helping me
understand and navigate what it could look like because I was in
a small market and are in a scaled business.
But if, if offshore weren't doing this or if NSW weren't
(29:02):
doing this, so Victoria was wasn't doing this, then why
would we need to consider it? And that was almost our
differentiation was because we can, because we're a little bit
more agile and we were a little bit more kind of open to change
because it was either going to work or it wasn't.
And then, you know, once you kind of start, once you kind of
make up your mind that you're onthis journey, everything kind of
then fits in together. And we realised really quickly
(29:24):
that we were absolutely forward thinkers in what we were doing.
And who were you with at this stage when you?
Yeah, I was with the South Korean Tourism Commission.
Yeah, yeah. Do you think around that time
too because I have have a background in marketing as well,
but I remember in those early days of marketing when things
got tight, the first budget thatwent was marketing always and.
Still is Kelly, still is. I think that's changing like in
(29:47):
my experience, because I think that marketing LED organisations
actually grow faster. And I think that this martech
pace and the evidence and the data we now put behind things,
it actually gives case studies to prove that what we're doing
is driving great results. Would you agree?
Is that like, is that where martech sort of?
So yeah, yeah, I do. I do agree with that.
But I do still think that there is often when there is budgets
(30:10):
to be cut, I think marketing still unfortunately is one of
the, what I would say, an easiertarget because, well, you can't
take away finance jobs because you know who will count the
numbers and you can't take away HR jobs because something might
go wrong and we might need thosepeople.
And so when you kind of go through a traditional
organisational structure, I do still think that sometimes
marketing is unfairly deducted. But I think you're right there.
(30:33):
We're able to justify, you know,marketers are now able to
justify so much more through thedollar.
What it is. What is happening with this?
And produce a business. Case and they can also now
produce a case which says you can take that away, but
understand that that's going to equate to X amount of dollars in
sales. Yeah, yeah.
And. So if you're happy to forgo
those sales, then we're happy toforgo the budget.
So to your point, Kelly, I thinkyou're absolutely spot on.
(30:55):
Marketing technology and advertising technology has
empowered marketers to become much.
More valued I. Think valued in their
organisations? Most definitely.
I think the CMO role has now kind of really jumped in in its
on AC suite as well. Yes, great.
Yeah. Melissa, now we're going to
delve into future vision and trends, global mega trends.
(31:18):
What's the one business leaders aren't paying enough attention
to right now? Yeah.
That's a great question, Anna. I love talking about global mega
trends. So I'm actually going to read
for you first, what is a global mega trend, right, Because that
might be helpful to I'd love it,I think.
Yeah. So a mega trend refers to a
(31:39):
large scale sustained shift thatimpacts multiple sectors over a
long period. So for the next decade, these
mega trends won't change that much, perhaps in the way that
we're talking about them will asthey become part of our
vernacular, but really they won't change.
And the five that I think that probably most businesses need to
be looking out for digital transformation and AI, embedded
(32:02):
sustainability and climate action, globalisation and
regionalization, adapting to changing demographics and
focusing on health and Wellness.So now if I kind of go back, I
think the one out of number one out of that one digital
transformation AI think most people understand what that is.
And my only comment on that would be get on board.
(32:22):
Yeah, if you are not. Absolutely.
If you are not using AI or machine learning apps, products
within your business, you will fall behind really, really
quickly. And I'm not sure that this is
something that your business canafford to fall behind on,
regardless of what size businessyou're in or what you're doing.
So I would say get on board in relation sustain to
(32:43):
sustainability and climate action.
This is probably more around renewable energy, carbon
neutrality and then probably theESG, so the environmental,
social and governance. And are you compliant now for
every business? That's going to be completely
different. If you're part of the energy
sector, that's going to look very, very different to if
(33:03):
you're running a small scale snack bar.
But it's about the conscious effort you are putting into
disposing of products. What is it that you're doing for
your customers to help them understand?
Are you using, let's go really basic?
Are you using recyclable shopping bags?
Yes, because if you are, you're kind of tapping into this
without even knowing that you'retapping, tapping into a mega
trend of the future, if that makes sense.
(33:24):
So I'm not talking about these big scale projects that require
millions of dollars. I'm saying grass roots.
What can you do to tap into someof these mega trends?
Globalisation and regionalization is really about
global reach. So if you've got a product that
needs global reach, go far, go wide, you do that as much as you
can, but you're going to need tobe adaptable locally because if
(33:46):
nothing, if COVID-19 told us nothing more, there will be
times where you cannot get your products and services yeah, from
overseas or you may not be able to distribute globally.
Yes. So is your, yeah.
So is your model available for global scale?
But, but can you pivot if you needed to, to a localised
version of what that is or can you get your products and
services locally maybe at a higher price?
(34:08):
And I'm sure there's a run on slash domino effect here, but
it's just really important I think that you're thinking about
that from a future proofing. Yes, risk reduction.
Risk reduction for sure, and then adapting to changing
demographics. So I think it would be of no
surprise to anyone that our population is ageing and there's
a growing middle class. And so do your products and
services meet the needs of an ageing population and a growing
(34:31):
middle class? And then how is it that you'll
still talk to, you know, Gen Alpha about your products and
services if by chance your products and services span the
entire demographic of of what the globe will look like in the
next 10 years? So how are you catering to those
demographics? And do you need to start
changing things now? There's also a cultural piece in
(34:53):
there as well. We already know that 50% of
Australians are born overseas. And so, you know, all don't come
from an an English speaking background.
So it's a second language for them.
How is your company tapping intothose demographic shifts that
will take place now over the next decade?
And the last one is health and Wellness, and that is largely
(35:14):
going to be around preventative care.
So if you do anything in your businesses that is around
preventative care, I mean, Kellyspreads joy.
So I'd say, but thank you. You know, if there's anything
that your businesses can do around focusing on health and
Wellness, you will be tapping into a global mega trend that
will be so important in the nextdecade because we might not have
(35:37):
cures and cures will cost more. And as our aged care, their
processes change and what does age care even look like?
What does that hospital system look like?
So on and so forth. If there is anything that you
can do or if you're in this space of well being and whether
that's you share Adms with people on, you know, how to do
things, whether you are, you know, have a fitness app,
(36:00):
whether you, you know, speak to people through other means or
channels about, you know, health, yes.
And their well being. Whether, you know, the Wellness
industry is a billion dollar industry and will only keep
growing. So megatrends shouldn't scare
people, which. Yeah.
I'm. Totally speaking the language.
And I love this checklist, Melissa, because it's, I think
when you hear the term global megatrends, instantly people
(36:23):
would think, oh, that's just forbig organisations.
And you've highlighted really it's at any scale and it's often
all the one percenters we're allmaking, making those small
changes that make the big difference in the world.
And that is such a brilliant checklist.
Like I'm, I'm checking off and actually in my mind.
And yeah, so thanks for sharing that with us because I think
(36:44):
it's debunked the myth that megatrends are only for the big
guys, no, and that we all shouldbe playing our part no matter
what we're doing, whether we're entrepreneurs, executives,
absolutely startups, scale UPS, school leavers, you know, these
are fantastic things to have topof.
Mind and school leavers will be far more passionate about some
(37:05):
Yeah megatrends and, you know, other Democrats.
Great innovative approach to it,which is awesome.
Absolutely. Yeah.
OK, let's have a little quick reset because you know when
Chaos hits Melissa and it inevitably does in the kind of
fast paced world that you live in, what's your reset button?
Mine is very very very basic. Go for it.
(37:26):
Write a list. I love it.
Love it. Yeah.
We're we love people, Yes. Do you?
Do you actually physically writeit with a?
Pen so normally I don't. So I've I've been paperless for
about a decade and so everythingI do is very much.
I always found that it was easier before, before a lot of
the AI and automation tools camein.
I found it was easier to type mynotes then copy paste them into
an email, send them off instead of retyping what you've just
(37:48):
written. Yes, but I go back to right hand
writing a list and this could beoverwhelming and this might be a
reset in my personal life. It can be a reset in my work
life, but I just find that writing the list, yes, just
really makes you go, okay, I canactually achieve this.
Let's just block this out. Let's decompartmentalize.
Let's just go, what can we achieve today?
What can we achieve tomorrow? And I think you finally kind of
(38:09):
get back on track. Is it like a mini?
Sort of not business plan, but just putting all your ducks in a
row and just getting everything out of your chaotic mind.
I think that's where the chaos is.
I don't think the chaos is necessarily around us.
I think the chaos is hidden. Yeah.
And also it's that managing yourpersonal To Do List as a mum,
Yeah, with two children working as well as all of your, you
(38:31):
know, requirements you've got from a career perspective.
But do you find putting both of those down on one sheet together
works? Absolutely, I do.
Yeah, I do too. And.
You know, you have the home listand you have the the work list
and you just kind of, yeah, and it's okay.
I think you're also resetting yourself expectations, Kelly as
well, which I think you've just mentioned there.
It's like we can't build things to all people.
(38:52):
It's just impossible. You know, being a full time
working mom, there are differently, you know, things
that we can't, we can't do. It's impossible to think that
you can be brilliant at every single aspect and turn up to
every single thing in life. It's just it's not possible.
And so I think what it does is recalculate.
Yeah. And helps you reset on.
OK, what are the priorities? What must I achieve today?
(39:13):
Yes. And what can actually wait until
tomorrow? Yeah.
And then you feel good because, you know you haven't forgotten
anything because it's all on there for you to consider.
It's sort of how I feel about spreadsheets, Like it's all.
As. Soon as I've got it in a
spreadsheet. Love A.
Spreadsheet it's true, and everyone has their own coping
mechanisms. I imagine you've had lots of the
different answers to that question, but you know, mines
(39:33):
are really, really. Basic Melissa, In a perfect
world, if fear and money were not factors, what's the next big
move you would make? I'd work for the UN and fight
for equality. Go for.
It please say that. We'll be your cheers.
Yep. Great.
We'll be there. You would be.
You would nail that. All right.
(39:54):
And now for our quick fire finish.
So we'd love to ask you if you had to leave future leaders with
just one truth. What would it be?
If not you, then who? If it's not you, then who?
Yeah. So it might as well be you.
Yeah. Love that this.
Goose Bumpy Yeah, yeah, yes. And the way she looks at you,
(40:16):
it's like, OK, I'll do it, I'll do it, OK.
And that's such a a self checking.
Come on, Anna. Come on, Anna, it's quick.
Fun, and it's still promised to bring over it.
Now that's so good. OK, sorry, GAIL, wrap it up.
(40:43):
OK, Melissa, let's call it your mic drop moment.
What's the bold belief you standby no matter what?
I've got 2 if you don't mind if I share both. 1 is keep leaning
in until you must lean out. And my example for that is when
I was seven months pregnant, I threw my hat in the ring for a
new job. Everyone thought I was mad,
(41:03):
including my husband. And then I said to him, but if I
get it, like, will you support me?
And he said, yes, of course. So too many times I hear people
say, oh, I don't think I'll put my hat in the ring for that
because I want to have a baby inthe next two years or the next
12 months. Well, I really hope that works
out for you. But for the many women that
doesn't work out for you've justput your entire career on hold.
(41:25):
No one puts their career on hold.
Certainly men don't put their career on hold.
So you want to be able to keep going.
So keep leaning in until you absolutely must lean out.
So just otherwise you, you know,you then you can't kind of
complain or say it's unfair thatothers have kind of moved their
careers forward and yours kind of idled.
So don't lean back until you absolutely must.
And the second one is I'm actually going to use a
(41:46):
statement from one of my really good friends, Holly Ransom,
who's a global keynote speaker and a published author.
And she has an incredible book called The Leading Edge.
And the quote on the front coverof her book says Dream big,
spark, change and become the leader of the world needs you to
be. That's.
What I've do Perfect night to finish this amazing interview
on. Thank you, Melissa.
(42:06):
Thank you. Thanks Melissa, that's been
fantastic. Loving this episode.
I know we are share it with a friend who needs to hear it.
If you're enjoying this conversation, a review goes a
long way in helping others find us.
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