In this episode of Film Tech and Finance, host Kostantinos Kovanis speaks with Stephen Enloe, a seasoned producer and executive vice president of 11th Hour Productions. They discuss the journey of filmmaking from concept to distribution, the importance of empathy in storytelling, and the evolving landscape of the film industry. Stephen shares insights on the significance of technology, the rise of short-form content, and the challenges of financing and distributing films. He emphasizes the opportunities available for independent filmmakers in today's market and the value of film festivals in connecting with audiences and industry professionals.
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(00:00):
Welcome to Film Tech and Finance, where we explore the
cutting edge technology and financial strategies driving the
film industry today. So welcome back to our podcast.
Today, we're stepping inside theexecutive office to look at how
major projects move from drawingboard to global markets,
analyzing the capital, the craft, the cutting edge.
This is film, tech and finance. Our guest today is a seasoned
producer who understands exactlywhat it takes to get a project
(00:23):
across the finish line in a rapidly changing industry.
He has spent his life in and around film, and today he serves
as an Executive Vice President of 11th Hour Productions, where
he marries creative vision with financial strategy to help shape
the future of independent cinema.
As both a producer and senior executive, his role spans
(00:44):
development, financing, production, oversight and
distribution with a particular passion of design equitable
financial structures that ensurecast, crew and investors alike
sharing project success. Please welcome to our show
Stephen and Liu. Hey there, How's it going?
Thank you so much for having me.Really really excited to get
into this. Thanks.
Thanks for being here. You're actually one of our first
(01:05):
guests in this new endeavour hours to get the podcast switch
from just me speaking and talking about industry and
having guests like yourself. So to start out, tell us a
little bit about yourself. I mean, I did a little research.
It's just I saw so many things. So just tell us a little bit the
history. Yeah.
Well, my name is Steven Enlow. I help run 11th Hour Productions
(01:27):
with Jacqueline Fabricius and Lori Enlow, who also happened to
be my sister and my mother. 11thHour Productions is the
production company that we formed just a few years ago.
Between my family and I, we had all been working in the film
industry for a long time, varying amounts for each of us,
(01:48):
but I am coming up on pretty much 20 years in the film
industry now myself. I child acted, so that's a big
part of that. Started acting when I was very
young and did that for about 14 years and that was really my
first look at the industry. I grew up around my dad who was
a screenwriter still is and and a producer as well as a
(02:09):
director. And so I grew up around quite a
bit of this and getting a lot ofinformation, whether I liked it
or not, really growing up arounda very analytical kind of, but
still very creative kind of sidefrom the screenwriter point of
view. And just my dad being even the
the film buff film historian that he is.
(02:30):
And then going into my own version or my own part of the
craft, so to speak, being an actor and seeing it from those
different angles. And then moving forward into the
seat of a producer when I was even just in my kind of late
teenage years, all three of those different perspectives I
think have have given me the perspective that I do currently
(02:51):
have. And I think have given me a lot
of a lot of understanding and a lot of empathy for many of the
different aspects of the film industry that I I really do
think are very important to holdand to give weight to properly.
And, and they make me into the producer that I am today.
I'm really, really grateful for those.
Nice. So tell us a little bit about
(03:12):
projects that you have done already and projects that you're
working on right now. Yeah, I think one of the biggest
projects that I'm most excited about is Treasure Trove.
It's the first feature film thatwe completed as a 11th Hour
Productions and it is really just getting finished up.
We had our first screening of it.
There was a private, you know, friends and family screening
(03:34):
recently and we had some really good reception of that.
It was just nice to see it up ona big screen and and to see all
the the different parts of it put up together.
But that is currently going out for distribution and, and we're
likely going to be taking a direct to streaming approach on
the distribution of that film just for the the sake of exactly
(03:55):
what that film is and, and who we have in it and some of our
specific marketing strategies that we have with that.
But it's, it's something we're really proud of.
It's a really fun film about, you know, 2 best friends who are
on their way out of town and endup getting sucked into this hobo
treasure hunt. And it is really.
(04:15):
It's as eclectic and fun and wacky as it sounds, but
essentially it is following these two main characters as
they encounter, you know, criminal ex-girlfriend, eve
older brother, a gang of hobos, a scorpion Wrangler of all
people. And essentially all those crazy
characters are after them by theend of the film and subsequently
(04:37):
after the treasure. So that should be out, should be
out soon, actually on on a streaming service or multiple
streaming services to be announced.
And that's what we're probably most proud of right now.
And what we're really, what we're really working really hard
on, on those marketing strategies and campaigns,
whether it's internally or with some of our cast members or
(04:58):
with, with our PR team at for our media.
But, but we're really excited about that.
We, we have a lot of other projects that we've worked on.
We've have a few short films that have done pretty well in
the festival circuit. I have been awarded well and,
and been nominated for some really big stuff.
And, and that's actually what I think has gotten us a good
amount of exposure thus far is when I walk in places and say
(05:23):
who I am or I talk to people andthey ask me what my company is
and I say 11th Hour Productions.A lot of the time I actually get
people now in the past couple ofyears that actually say, oh, I
know of 11th Hour productions. I've heard of you guys, which is
a really nice feeling. It's it's not something that I
think you get early on as a filmmaker.
And I think it just speaks to the importance of longevity in
(05:46):
this industry because it's a very, very hard industry.
Yeah, hard work pays off. Hard work pays off.
Yeah. And, and, you know, sticking
through it is really a big part of it because there's so many,
there's so many points all the way throughout it that it just
seems like like there's a lot ofdarkness or that there's, you
know, even I think things feel like failures sometimes.
(06:08):
But you know, the importance of having a really good team around
you, the importance of having people who want to see you win
and actually like talking with them and strategizing and
figuring out where you did fail.But moving forward with, you
know, the correct steps moving forward from that I think is
important. So.
So a little bit about because a lot of our viewers are going to
(06:28):
be film makers, actually young ones.
So what would you suggest and somebody that starts now and
wants to build something like your company something.
So they want to create a companywhere they do productions and
they try to do the distribution.So what would be an easy way to
start first of all? And then what should they be
(06:50):
prepared for? Let me put it that way.
Yeah, I think that there's a fewreally key things that
definitely helped me and a few key things that I think I would
probably give myself my younger self some advice on.
One of the things that I think helped the most was having a
team that I could trust. Luckily for me, that's my
family. But find a team.
(07:10):
Find a team of people that you can actually build with.
You cannot do it all. Just absolutely you cannot do it
all. And if you do, you'll burnout
and it'll take longer and that'sfine.
I know a lot of people who can weather the storm of a burnout
and have it's not fun. Definitely don't recommend it.
And they'll get back on the horse and they'll, they'll
finish the project or they'll keep on going, etcetera.
(07:30):
But you end up walking away fromthat one of a few ways.
You end up walking away from that a little bit more jaded, or
you end up walking from that a little bit more exhausted, or
you end up walking away from that and walking away from the
whole thing entirely. And obviously you don't want
that. So kind of like what I was
talking about before, the longevity of this industry.
This is not an industry where I think people should ever be
(07:53):
looking at a get rich quick scheme of being here for five
years and being done. I like to tell people that,
yeah, I've been here for 20 years now, but I'm here for
another 50 in 10 years. When people are asking questions
about what the film industry is doing, I'm here to answer them
in 20 years and 30 years and 40 years, 50 years.
I'm not here to build something that is going to make a bunch of
(08:15):
money and then be done and out of here in five years or 10
years. Realistically, I'm here to,
yeah, hopefully build something that does some really hit, some
really success, successful metrics, whether it's monetarily
or awards wise or just audience wise or just creating the right
pieces of art that I want to create, whatever that is for
you. You know, I think that you
should be looking at it in a really, really narrow timelines
(08:41):
in certain aspects. But but but lengthen your
timeline for sure. Shorten your timeline for your
small goals. I like to also tell people that
you have much less time than youthink and much more time than
you think because your goals of the things you want to hit now
go out and make them happen now.You know, if it's going to take
(09:03):
you a month, what would take, what would it take for it to
happen in a week? You know, if it's going to take
you 5 months, six months, 8 months, 10 months, a year, what
would it require of you or of your budget or of your team,
etcetera for that to happen in one month?
Not that you necessarily need toactually hit that, but I do
think that that's a very, very useful mental exercise for you
(09:24):
to get used to of assessing whatit would take, what it would
require of you or others around you to actually make something
happen quicker. Because I think that it
alleviates a lot of anxiety. There is, I saw a study recently
actually that said that males 25to 35 of some of the highest
(09:47):
anxiety levels, specifically when they have the view that
they're running out of time, which is a growing demographic
of people within the world. Not to discount anyone any other
demographics anxieties about anything or to place even more
weight on it than any others really, but they are some of the
highest anxiety levels. Which I think is interesting
because I think if people peopletreated their short term goals
(10:09):
as very, very short term and tried to reach them as quickly
as possible, I think a lot of the anxiety about the long term
goals would actually be alleviated.
But you have all the time in theworld to do your your long term
goals. And I think that you should view
it as your short term goals thatyou are, you're already out of
time kind of. Yeah.
(10:31):
The best day to start a diet wasyesterday or two years ago, but
all you have is today. That's all you can do.
Right, very good advice. Thank you.
Now I have one more for the filmpart and then we'll go to a
little bit of tech, which I liketo talk about.
Awesome. So for the film, what do you
think about the new trend right now without like the vertical
videos, a little short clips where they promote them as
(10:53):
they're not film, Of course they're not film, they're just
videos. Most of them are done by phone,
right? Yeah, but I mean, some are doing
very good, right? And they're money, but is that
something that can be incorporated in this industry as
a film or should it be somethingseparate?
And then what's your take about that?
Like should new people focus more on that then creating long
form film? Because it's a lot easier and
(11:14):
cheaper, right? Sometimes.
I think that it really just depends on on your definitions,
your goals, etcetera. I would, I would.
Let's take this example. You know the film Scorsese, the
Irishman, it's about a billion years long, right?
That's a film, right? Do you know the film Madagascar
cartoon film, right? Barely, I think spans 75
(11:38):
minutes, 78 minutes or somethinglike that.
Really, really short. That's a film too.
Double the length, different format completely.
Both films. So realistically, you have such
a vast a variety of what we qualify as films.
So if you want to call a vertical a film or not, or if
you want to call it a series or something else, like sure.
(12:01):
But at that point we get into semantics.
You know, at the end of the day,there's an audience and there's
a growing audience for it. Whether or not you want to be a
part of making them or you want to be a part of consuming them,
that's a completely different story all in of itself.
You know that's do it or don't consume it or don't use your
time watching them or don't use your time making them or don't
(12:23):
you know the if, if that's wherethe audience is, then that's
intrinsically going to be where some of the money is.
So if you want a little bit of if you want an easier time
getting specifically that money,then I think it's your decision
to then go forward and try and utilize some of the budget
that's being currently allocatedby some of these larger
(12:44):
corporations to do that. And I honestly, I think that
storytelling is storytelling to a certain extent, you know, just
because somebody's doing something on previously.
If you look at Robert Rodriguez,if you looked at his earliest
film being shot on, you know, really low grade equipment and
kind of just being a running gungorilla production.
(13:05):
If you were to ask some of the snobbiest directors in Hollywood
at the time if he was making real films, then some of them
probably would have said no. I obviously, you know, if you
look at his interviews and my own personal opinions and a lot
of other critics of opinions andwhat actually ended up being
taken and majorly distributed, that was a real film.
(13:27):
So just because it's on different equipment or it's
filmed in a different way or whatever, I think the difference
is, is there an actual story? There is, as an artist actually
getting to do what they want in a certain aspect of it, and how
do you define it and what do youwant your involvement of it to
be? Right, right.
Very nice. And now my other question would
be for technology. And I told you earlier and I'm
going to jump on this question after you give me Prince a
(13:48):
pitch. So how do you guys embrace in
your company new technology likefor example AIVR or newer ways
of doing productions? Because we see a huge trend
right now. People are trying to leave the
studio, the traditional studio set and try to create video
however they can. Some some people say lower
budget but I don't know about the quality though.
But how do you guys handle that?How do you guys handle AI and
(14:13):
you know, new equipment than software hardware?
I think that and I think that there's a lot of different
branches and kind of avenues youcan go down with AI itself and
technology as almost its full own separate aspect.
Generative AII think we have to separate out whether it's for
(14:33):
the sake of controversy itself or outside perspectives or
anything else. I think that we have to separate
out generative AI in terms of technology, not including
generative AI. I think you have to embrace it.
I think that you have to understand it in a certain
extent. I think that, you know, you have
(14:55):
different films over the past handful of years even was it
Roma, right? That was shot on a on a red
Monstro, which is theoretically in some ways some of the highest
technology we have because of the dynamic range with that
camera can actually capture, butit's also black and white.
So is that progression or regression in technology?
(15:16):
I don't know, but it was really,really well received.
And so in terms of that kind of technology there, there's also a
bunch of other things like, you know, if we're if we're really,
if you're taking a stance against technology, then like is
slow motion bad? You know, it's like, it's like
the plot of Singing in the Rain,you know, like can we can we
even have talking movies as opposed to previously when we
(15:40):
couldn't? And so I think that that's one
aspect of it, that if you do want to actually be involved in
the entertainment industry, you are intrinsically saying you do
want to be involved in an industry that is made-up of rule
Breakers, of innovators, of people who want to test the
limits and of people who may or may not have access to the most
expensive technology at all times.
(16:01):
So a piece of technology that makes the industry itself or the
ability to capture commercial grade entertainment more
accessible or more equitable, I think is almost always a good
thing. We've lowered the barrier to
entry to make really, really high quality content quite a bit
(16:23):
from what we used to have, whichI think is an amazing thing
because it gives entertainers, artists, storytellers more
ability to tell stories that they otherwise would not have.
And not everyone has the abilityto go ask their parents, ask
family friends, ask, you know, abank, ask anyone for large sums
(16:43):
of money to make what would be classified as a traditional
level of production. But that doesn't mean they can't
make great films anymore. I think that that leads pretty
well into the discussion about generative AI because you have
films like Princess Mumbi that, you know, premiered at at the
Venice Film Festival this year and got obviously very, very
(17:04):
mixed like reviews. But I think overall had some
really high acclaim. And I know in watching that film
myself, I saw a lot of beauty inthe storytelling.
Just undeniably there was a filmmaker that previously to
generative AI could not have made that film.
(17:27):
Whether or not they should have or should not have or that
should be something they are allowed to do or not.
That's I'm not speaking on that at all, honestly.
But you have somebody from a, aneconomic and geographical
background that otherwise could not have made that specific
(17:48):
story. So I think if you're saying that
generative AI should not be used, then I think you're
intrinsically saying that that storyteller should not be able
to make that film and distributeit to the world in a free market
or that I guess that a free market shouldn't exist.
(18:08):
Which at that point, like honestly, that's a fine argument
to make if that's your opinion. But but that is as
intrinsically, I think what you're arguing is that that
filmmaker should not have the right to make that film, which I
do think that there are good arguments for both sides of I
do. I've heard some very, very
intelligent and I think respectable people that I
respect their views on humanity quite a bit.
(18:31):
Argue either way about that realistically, because you're
not saying that that the storytellers shouldn't be able
to tell the story, but you are saying that the other artists
who whose work were used in order to train those models,
that those artists should not have had their IP effectively
stolen. And I think that that's a really
(18:52):
good argument. As well, right?
I mean, so it's a long conversation.
I mean, you can go deep in that in different ways you go.
I was thinking more of the creative side of it because
right now, I mean, we're using AIA lot of times just to create
some simple stuff, but we try not to use it too much because
then you're not in control of the creative, right?
(19:13):
Because you're. Yeah.
But is that, is that the problemor not?
You know, is the problem human control or not?
I almost think that it's really not, you know, if.
You use it for good, it's good, right?
If you use it for bad, it's bad.I mean that's that's a general
rule of thumb. Right.
I mean, but to find that, I think really it's like, I think
that you could argue that Princess Mumbi used it for good
(19:33):
because it actually in and of itself, the entire film is about
questioning the usage of AI and how that affects our control of
humanity and if we should actually have the level of
control of the perception of humanity that we do via AI,
which is funny because it does that.
But I do think that, I mean, I can say this like 11th Hour
(19:54):
Productions specifically just speaking for us as an umbrella
of everything we make, not necessarily all as individuals,
but. Everything underneath the roof
of Menthar productions. We're not using generative AI in
any of our productions. So I do think that there's a lot
of value that is currently beingmissed in the production cycle
(20:17):
by the usage of AII think there's a lot of beauty that
gets uncovered in a story or or rather developed in certain
menial tasks and developmental kind of transfers of information
from this to this or in the storyboarding process or in the
that whole thing. And when you run creative
(20:38):
through the filter of AI, you effectively homogenize a lot of
aspects of the creative development process that do.
I think if you're an actual likeattuned person to creativity,
you can find a lot of inspiration and very many tiny
little things. I mean, if you, if you track
back even just major directors, if you, if you calculate all the
(21:00):
random little things in interviews where they're like,
oh, I got the idea for this thing that ended up being the
Super impactful thing that I wasdoing while I was in the line at
a grocery store or because I spilled my coffee on my pad as I
was, you know, sketching or etcetera, etcetera.
The menial tasks, the what makesup being a human.
A lot of those things actually do cause was some really amazing
(21:22):
inspirations and I do think thatsome of that is going to be
lost. Yeah, unfortunately we'll see
the future one holds. So now with going back to the
subject with the film tech and finance, Yeah, distribution.
Distribution is a big thing. A lot of a lot of creators, they
just think, OK, I'll just make amovie, I'll just make a film,
I'll just make a short. And then what?
And then you just have a file. What do you do with it, Right?
(21:45):
What would you suggest or how doyou guys handle distribution?
I mean, I understand it depends on what you have like is it
gonna be for film? It's gonna be.
But in general, how do you handle that and and what's the I
would say the best way to deal with that per project?
Yeah, I think it is exactly whatyou just said.
It's a per project basis. It's it's who's your audience.
I think it does come back to empathy in a lot of ways of who
(22:07):
actually cares who is this storyfor?
Who's this piece of media for? I think intrinsically depending
even on like the medium, the file format itself, whether
that's a vertical or that's a long form video or that's a
short form video, etcetera. I think that that even
determines who maybe not determines, but it narrows down
who your audience may most likely be.
(22:28):
And so I think marrying the format of media that you
actually decide to capture your story in with who your actual
demographic is, is is there a, let's say this is a story that's
super old timey and you want to make this story that really,
really, really connects with people who are between the ages
(22:49):
of 75 and 90. You know, what's like a really
random specific demographic. You probably don't want to make
that for a social media format, right, Right.
And that's a really like, that'sa really like drastic example.
But also you can get much more into the minutiae of it of like,
realistically, where does your audience actually like to
(23:09):
consume that exact type of media?
And so if all you can make is a short video, OK.
I mean, I just had a few friendsof mine were in this, in this
amazing short called passing. I don't know if you've seen it,
but it's a little short about about two people in New York, a
(23:30):
guy and a girl in New York who see each other across a
crosswalk. And it's about their interaction
of just passing by each other and then deciding to, because
one of them actually looks at the other instead of like
looking back at their phone, decides to actually have a
conversation. And then they meet and they have
a real nice little meet cute interaction.
(23:50):
It's a beautiful story and and Ithink it just surpassed like 7
or 8 or 9 million views or something crazy like that.
And they put it out directly on social media, like direct to
social media. They made the project.
And I remember I saw that and I don't think it, I think I saw it
like right when it got put up. Basically I I'd like responded
(24:10):
to my friend Carter and I was like, man, this is so cool.
This is like, I love this whole thing.
And then his Co star ended up being in our table read and she
was amazing. And and so it's like, you know,
what's the point of your of yourpiece of media?
Is it just to connect with people?
Because if that's it, yes, distribution.
I'm sorry, I'm getting far off the topic of distribution, but I
(24:31):
think it does come back down to the story.
Like if they would have put it out anywhere, it would have been
an amazing film that connected with a lot of people.
I think it could have done well in festivals.
It could have done well, whatever it is.
You know, this could be something that it proved that it
connected well with people and it was a very kind of poignant
thing to I think where a lot of people in the demographic are
(24:53):
AT. But that's I think because they
just focused on having a good story and then telling it well
and capturing it well. And they just put it out your
distribution, I think is you figure out where that goes best.
And so for our film currently, it's it's a, it's a feature film
that is shot on, you know, traditional, you know, like a
wide screen format. And we have somebody, an actress
(25:17):
named Madison Yazak, previously Mads Lewis, some people know her
as who has, I think collectivelysomewhere around 20 million
followers across all of her platforms.
And she's done an amazing job ofactually capturing her audience.
And and not it sounds weird whenyou say capturing your audience,
but capturing the attention of your audience and paying
attention to actually what they want to see.
(25:38):
And as a, as a content creator, as an actress who was previously
in I think a few dozen seasons of a web series, she got to know
that kind of interaction well. And we were on on a marketing
strategy call with her. And she just immediately was
like, well, there's one of thesein there right in the story.
And we were like, yeah, there is.
She was like, what if, what if Idid one of these videos?
(26:00):
I was like, Oh my gosh, it was something I would never would
have thought of as a marketer, as a producer, as somebody, but
she knows her audience and she knows her interactions with
them. She knows what they actually
like to see and what they interact with and what intrigues
them, etcetera. And so as film makers, I think
there's a lot to learn within that.
I have another, I have another friend, Gray, who is, I think
(26:22):
some people view more as like aninfluencer, content creator, but
is a very talented filmmaker as well.
Not to knock that side of it at all, because that's a lot of
hard work that you again have topay a lot of attention to your
audience. But I think he made a really
good film called senior prank. You should go and watch it.
It's on Tubi and it was a beautiful, amazing little like,
like, I don't say little film, but an amazing film that you
know, it's just it's about aboutthis story of a senior prank.
(26:46):
You know, these these friends and the bonding that goes into
it. I don't want to like talk too
much about it and misquote it, but I, I think it's a really
great film. And I think that he got that
from being a content creator that pays attention to his
audience, that knows who his demographic is, that knows who
some of his people are and kind of mixing that with his own
creative vision. And he found a distribution
platform in Toby, which I think is a fantastic platform that I
(27:11):
think is serving him well and isserving his audience well.
So. Nice here.
I mean, yes, content creators, Imean, there's one way to look at
it. They can just create and then,
you know, try to distribute it. But that's a hard way because
they might create something that's not for the market right
now, or they can readjust what they create for the market.
Such a ways to think of it. Yeah.
(27:32):
I mean, I think you see even other like a Markiplier just
made Iron Lawn, right. And with his audience and all of
his hard work and a lot of the things that he did, I mean
that's a full conversation and of itself.
But but he got major theatrical distribution for that.
That is narrow going like nationwide in I think 3 or 4
(27:52):
last time I saw of like the largest theater chains in
America. It's crazy.
And he, he comes from the world of YouTube.
But again, paid attention to hisaudience, made a great piece of
media, paid attention to where they want to watch it, what kind
of thing they want to do. And that's awesome.
That's like the dream as an independent filmmaker is being
able to actually have your finger on the pulse of who your
(28:13):
audience is and then go out and actually serve those people.
Again, I think it comes back to the empathy of understanding who
who your audience is and who youwant to serve.
OK, perfect. One other question for you right
now. And then try to pick your brains
because you're very good at this.
So finance, finance when it comes to funding, I know a lot
of everybody struggles there andhow do you, how do you get
people to give you money, right?That's the most important part.
(28:35):
Or companies, of course, are companies right now.
Yeah. And I think it's it's, it's a
similar thing. I think it's kind of twofold.
I think that it's a similar thought process to when you're,
when you're talking about distribution, you're talking
about an audience. And if you're talking about an
audience, you have to think about what they want.
And when you think about what they want, you go back and it
comes back to I think the story itself, the storytelling.
(28:57):
When you're talking about the other side of it, the finance
side of it, you I think very similarly do a very similar like
reverse engineering. You figure out who your actual
people that you're approaching are.
You figure out what they want out of it.
One thing that I do consult on, on independent productions and
with other independent producerson their financial structuring
(29:17):
and on their like financial modeling projections, you know
investment kind of packages or approaches so to speak and just
speak with them about about thatwhole process.
And one of the things that I tell those people very often is
investors are people too. And it's, it's funny that you
even have to say that because it's so obvious.
(29:37):
But at the same time, so many film makers view this purely as
an art. And if that's the case, then
that's fine. But you cannot then go and lie
to a bunch of people and tell them that it's a business.
It's a very fundamentally different things.
If it's about the art, then you're trying to go to get
people to give you money to makeThe best part, Don't worry about
any of the budget. Don't worry about any of the
(29:59):
funding. Don't worry any of it.
Just go and convince people to give, give you money to make the
best art. And that that becomes what you
have to convince people of is that you are now the best person
to make that art. So that's where your emphasis is
on if you want to actually go and convince people to make an
investment, then that's a completely different story.
That is where I actually I like to be personally, because I do
think that you can the, the beauty of the entertainment
(30:20):
industry is that it's an industry, it's a business.
So you, you have this ability togo look at the market, look at
your audience, see what they want to see.
And then there's this like really creative, awesome overlap
map of how those things marry together of like finding, OK, if
that's what I can get out of it,if that's what that audience is
willing to give me back in return for it, is they're
(30:43):
willing to watch X amount of it.Or I think I can get X amount of
people to watch it, whether it'sin a theater with that audience
wants to see this kind of content in a theater or on a
streaming service or on a whatever.
And I can prove that basically because that's how I got to that
conclusion myself. Then I can go and I can reverse
engineer that to say, OK, can I tell that if that's what that
needs to be? And if I need to, if my
(31:03):
investors that I think I have the ability to go have access to
are looking for X amount out of this?
You know, it's certain types of investors want a really small
return, but they want a lot of data backing it or they want it
to be quicker or whatever it is.And other investors really want
to kind of just play the Lotto and hit the jackpot and they
want to swing for the fences. Others want to have more
(31:25):
diversification. Who's your investor and what do
they want out of it? And then structuring it that way
and saying, OK, cool, I know my investors investor is like,
let's take a really a much more likely case.
There's somebody who cares in some way about me as a person.
They kind of like me as a person.
They want to see me thrive as a whatever.
So that's, that's a bonus. They want to see good art out in
the world. So that gives me a little bit of
(31:45):
forgiveness. This is intrinsically an, a
risky investment. So they want something out of
it. I can prove some sort of aspect
through data of some sort of like viability for that.
And then basically, how am I going to hit that exact
multiple? Can I get that from streaming?
Can I get that from theatrical? What are the costs that I would
incur for if that's streaming distribution or what are what
(32:08):
are the costs that I would incurmarketing wise for if that is a
theatrical release and it's a whole model, I think.
So reverse engineering it and figuring out exactly what your
investors specifically want is the first step.
What exactly do they want and how can you or can you give that
to them? Like if they, if you know this
(32:29):
type of media because of a bunchof comparables, like we could
get into comps and how you can actually track the data and
what's reliable and what's not. But let's say you have a very
clear picture that like there's a statistical likelihood that
you may be able to make $10 million on one given project A.
(32:51):
What are like, do you think you can make that level of quality
of a project for this budget now?
And what's the marketing cost going to be on top of that?
You're going to have to pay backand take out of that.
And then let's say you can make the movie for two, you can
market it for another three or five or whatever or two, which I
know sounds like a crazy number for a lot of independent film
makers, but let's call it two and two.
(33:11):
And you think you can make a $10million total on that.
Then if your investors want AX of some sort or you know, 1.5 X
within three years or five or four years or five years or five
years or so, then maybe you havea viable project on your hands
that you can reasonably without in good faith actually go to
(33:33):
investor. But let's say your investors
only want to invest in a projectif it can get them a 4X multiple
because it's so risky, then you can't make that project in good
faith. You need to either tell them we
have a one in 300 chance of making that right, right.
Or, and you just say, look, I think we can do it.
And if you can convince them that with being honest about the
(33:55):
like very, very bleak odds and they're happy with that, then
amazing, go out and do that. But I think honesty, empathy,
knowing who your investors are, knowing what they want out of
it, and then very, very brutallyhonestly with you and your
production team, asking yourselfwhether or not you actually can
(34:17):
do that within a reasonable amount of statistical
likelihood. That's what that's what you
should be doing as an independent filmmaker.
Because we have to be very, verycareful as independent film
makers. If you do a bad job, you might
not make another movie. That's a huge deal for me,
right, Right. I want to want to be doing this
in 50 years and if I am not doing this responsibly, that is
(34:38):
going to be very, very hard. Yeah, quality is is very
important. Yeah.
Yeah, it's it goes far away. So now let's talk a little bit
about festivals. The festival is one way to get
your job out there. And there's one way to to meet
people. And I've been to many festivals
and in Europe, here in the US, So there's one coming now next
(35:00):
month, right? There's one Sundance.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I I.
Heard something? That's what I didn't say.
Yeah, yeah. What do you say?
Go ahead with your question. Right.
Yeah. So yeah, you're gonna be, you're
gonna be in Sundance this year, right.
You're gonna be there as a company or you're gonna be there
as a guest or. Yeah, no, it's a great question
to back up, I think. I think festivals are fantastic.
(35:21):
I I really do love them. I I think that the view on them
and the usefulness of festivals has slightly shifted.
One thing that I think is a hugebenefit to independent film
makers is that as we move more digital as a society, the
importance and the value that weplace intrinsically on in person
experiences has gone up significantly.
(35:44):
When we have an in person experience with somebody or
something or a piece of media oror just a real person in front
of us with a real conversation, the value of that is really,
really high for us because it has just mentally there's a
higher level of scarcity within that.
And so the usefulness of being present at a festival I think
(36:07):
has gone significantly. I will say that the statistics
of independent, truly independent films finding
preferable distribution deals through festivals, excluding
markets, but festivals has gone down every single year for the
past handful of years. So if your goal is to get your
(36:28):
film into festivals in order to find a financially viable
distribution deal, then statistically you're much less
likely to do that now than you were previously.
So all opinions aside, you know,a lot of people kind of preach
that the sky is falling with festivals and they're useless,
or they're this or they're that.I fully disagree with those
(36:50):
people. I think this statistically, if
you're only looking at looking at one set of statistics and
that one set of statistics beingfinancially viable distribution
deals, then yes, I think that you can't argue with that
metric. But if you look at other
societal metrics of people valuing in person interactions,
(37:11):
more people having a like draw towards in person immersive
experiences, more to generally disruptive experiences and
experiential kind of places, that is all trending massively
upward. Whether you're talking about
live sports or you're talking about music festivals or you're
(37:31):
talking about film festivals, people's actual view,
interaction and value of those has actually just gone up
societally massively. So I think that being present at
festivals is really, really important, which is why 11th
Hour is doing a a huge kind of set of activations.
(37:52):
So Hour Productions is holding aset of events in Park City this
year on Main Street during the Sundance Film Festival.
And we're holding Wellness mornings, coffee hours, panels,
fireside chats, speakers, cocktail hours, private parties,
et cetera, all at our venue thatwe have.
(38:12):
That's just two doors up from the Egyptian Theatre on Main
Street in Park City for the entire weekend 1 during Sundance
Film Festival. And so we have a lot going on
there Friday morning through Monday night.
And we believe in presence at festivals.
We believe in creating disruptive, immersive,
experiential experiences that are in the presence of the other
(38:37):
disruptors, the other innovators, the other
independent film makers who are invested in changing and
innovating the industry. And that's what we're doing.
We were really focused on all ofour programming providing a
space for independent film makers to have really tangible,
accessible, actionable kind of conversations so that they can
(39:01):
actually go out into the world with these really tangible
action items. And the really innovative ideas
that they get to talk with otherindependent film makers who
maybe were, you know, have done it before or maybe are on a
panel actually. Or even just the people that are
sitting next to them who are interested in the same kind of
conversations about distribution, finance,
(39:24):
marketing, about different minorities and different kind of
marginalized voices in filmmaking.
Different avenues of getting allthese different aspects of the
film industry done and doing them creatively and, and
treating people while we're doing it.
(39:46):
And that's kind of what all of our our programming is focused
towards is I think if I could say one last thing about film
festivals, realistically, I do love film festivals and I love a
lot of the programming that I'vebeen to at Sundance, at Con, at
a bunch of other festivals. But one thing that I think
(40:07):
sometimes lacks from the conversations, this kind of
tangible aspect of where do we go from here?
And sometimes the conversation is a bit disconnected from.
The independent world, a lot of the time you get this split
within a panel or a fireside chat or conversation that you're
(40:31):
either speaking with somebody who is so gorilla and so
independent that they are talking about it.
Like, just get whatever money you can, crowdfund however you
can and just go out there and gorilla shoot.
Don't worry about permits, don'tworry about permissions.
Just make it happen and make thebest piece of art that you can.
(40:52):
And the other side of the coin is, well, you need to be able to
pitch this to an executive out of studio and it needs to make
sense for them within their mandates and within what they're
seeing within the data. And both sides of that coin, I
think are kind of they're not giving a chance for the people
(41:12):
who want to split the differenceof that to have any sort of
voice or understanding or advice.
Because I think that there are alot of independent film makers
that do want to make real amazing art that is also
financially and commercially viable.
That gets out to maybe not a audience that's going to hit
(41:33):
2500 or 3500 screens on, you know, major theatrical release,
but maybe could have a limited theatrical release or could very
respectively have a very amazingrun at a digital release.
Whether that's, you know, straight to a Netflix or an SVOD
of that sort. Or if it's a more grassroots
(41:55):
distribution strategy of going to T VOD 1st and seeing what you
can get from rentals and purchases and then shifting over
to an AVOD and trying to prove your audience and then maybe
getting picked up by an SVOD. And, and that kind of stretch
that a lot of independent distributors like to outline.
But either way, I think that that is a missing piece for a
(42:18):
lot of a lot of panels and firesides and speakers and
programming at independent festivals.
And that's exactly what we plan to hit is not just the people
who want to gorilla make a film,which I respect a bunch and I
love, but also not the people who necessarily want to wait for
(42:39):
a studio to give them permissionto do something.
I want to speak and create a place for conversation to be had
to independent film makers who want to actually go out
responsibly, structure a project, responsibly develop
that project that is going to bea great piece of art that is
going to reach a good audience, fundraise for it, produce it to
(43:03):
make sure that it gets out therecorrectly, and then market it.
I want to talk to those people. Those are the independent film
makers who I think are really, really going to have an amazing
run in the next 5 to 10 years. A lot of opportunity there.
Perfect. So let me ask you this, besides
Sundance, which I'm sure it's going to be fun and it's going
to be great. I mean we just described, it's
just amazing. Thank you for.
(43:25):
So if somebody wants to get a hold of you and talk to you
about all this website, is that any other way we can get a hold
of you or I mean, on the show we're gonna have information
about your company and everything, but they just shoot
you an e-mail and or they go on your website and.
Yeah, no, I think that, I mean, I'll make sure that you guys
have my my information contact wise for the show as well.
(43:47):
But yeah, our website has our contact info in there as well.
Our social media, which is mostly Instagram, but but our
website and our social media aredefinitely the easiest ways to
contact us. And that'll honestly probably go
either to directly to me or or one of my other partners that
will be able to point it to me or to one of them, answer any
(44:08):
questions anyone has. Perfect.
I think we covered everything. I mean, we talked about the
whole industry, the whole everything.
And I'm sure if we stayed here, we could have talked for another
four or five hours. And I'm sure, yeah.
Yeah, but I think thank you verymuch for your time.
Really nice. If there's anything else you
want to add to this because we can edit at the end, anything
else like your future plans or anything like you're working on
(44:29):
specific now besides Sunday after Sundance, what would you?
Are you working on something specific, like a specific
project specific, movie specific, or what we just
covered earlier? Yeah.
I think that for us the the big wrap UPS for for where we're at
right now in the beginning of I guess Q1 of 2026 are the release
of Treasure Trove. That's a really big deal for us
(44:51):
right now. This lounge, the 11th hour lodge
in Park City during Sundance this year and moving forward,
but we're going to be doing similar experiential kind of
immersive venue spaces at other festivals as well.
We're looking at CON, we're looking at TIFF and a couple of
the other ones really, really like to be present at major
(45:13):
markets specifically. That's why I love CON.
But yeah, that's really it for us right now.
We have a few other films that are in development currently,
but in terms of public view of things, those are definitely the
most pressing for us. Sounds sounds interesting, very
interesting. And I'm sure you're very busy
with it. It's not, it's not a small
(45:33):
thing. I mean, I know you're working
with it. So you probably thinks like,
yeah, that's it. But that's, I just said that's a
lot of stuff. And it's amazing.
Yeah. Because you go besides a
production company that just produces, I mean, you interact
and you want to create a space, as you said, that's just
amazing. So keep us posted on everything
how you do. If we can, you know, upload and
promote it, we will do it. And then before big, before big
(45:55):
events, we can jump in. It's going to be, you know, a
little bit different to set up. It's going to be a lot more
organized right now, but we're going to get it.
We can. We can promote events before or
during or after or whatever. We can't even visit.
Yeah, I mean, I've been to Cannes many times because I used
to be based in Europe, so. Will you be at Sundance or
anything this year by chance? I might for.
(46:17):
A lot of people, it's TBD, so yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't go every time, but yeah,
yeah, I don't know. Yeah, we'll see.
It's because it's the beginning of Q1 and we're doing a lot of
new things too. We're creating something also
so. Yeah, No, I, I, I do have one
last question. Sure.
I don't know if it's similar questions for some of the other
(46:38):
guests or anything, but I guess have you, have you heard any
specifically very differing opinions of of kind of what we
talked about? I'm always curious to hear about
what other. So this is what what struck me a
little bit on because and that'sour reason.
I asked for you about AI. Everybody was focused on AI and
everybody was kind of scared. So that's why I asked you.
(46:59):
I want to Give your opinion too.There's there's different
people. I mean, I talked this morning
with a gentleman outside the USImean the same concept as you
talked about, but they're a little bit afraid that the old
traditional studio system is gone and they're trying to
figure out like where to go or what to do.
But again, as I said, again, embracing a new era, a new
(47:22):
technology doesn't mean that theold one should die, right?
They they can adjust. That's the way I see it.
I mean, you see, now big studiosare open to smaller jobs too,
right? That's one good thing.
But in the past it was like, youknow, they had to have a huge
production to get in a big studio, right?
And that's good. But and then they're afraid
about social media. That's that's what kills them.
They're afraid that, you know, akid with an iPhone disrupts your
(47:46):
business, which as you said earlier, and I think you're
correct and I'm with, I'm on thesame page with you, is that's a
different market. That's something completely
different. I mean, you guys say if you
create a long form movie for thetheater, well, you don't care
if, you know, Instagram doesn't.Yeah, you're going to hit 8
million views on Instagram because that's not your
audience. You care about tickets on the
(48:07):
theater, right? Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if that answers your question, but the
market's right now a little bit.It's a little bit, you know,
fluid. A lot of people are afraid that
we're scared. A lot of people.
New things are coming. Technology is getting cheaper,
so more affordable. I would say we can buy very,
very good cameras or professional cameras, very
affordable home. I mean, that's.
(48:28):
No, it's that's interesting. I appreciate that.
No, it's always, it's always interesting hearing what other
film makers and other people areare putting out there.
I would say if I could, but honestly end with with
something, something that I do want to be out there honestly is
I think because of everything that you just said, I think that
there's never been a better timeto be an independent filmmaker,
(48:48):
truthfully, because I I don't see all these things aligning at
the same time any other time in history.
There's more access to high quality equipment than we've
ever had in the past. There's more access to a skilled
workforce that currently doesn'thave work, which is obviously a
bad thing in a lot of aspects, but for an independent filmmaker
means there's more access to that skilled workforce.
(49:10):
There's more independently held wealth than there ever has been
in the in the past, which means there's more people to actually
go and approach for film and there's more, there's more
content hours being watched for whatever kind of type of content
you're talking about. There's there's actual higher
consumption of media than there ever has been.
And on top of all that, there's never been as many avenues of
(49:33):
reaching those audiences for free, literally for free or for
different paid platforms. But there's never been all of
those things in as high levels as we currently have.
There sure as heck has never been those all at this level all
at the same time. So if you, if you mix all of
those into one thing, I don't think that that has ever existed
(49:55):
in the past. And I truthfully, I don't even
think that those will all exist in the same way in the Future
Past the next, you know, whatever you want to call it, 5
to 10 years. But I think that we we do
somewhat have a a bit of a golden window if we really,
really if we're able to actuallytake advantage of the current
fragmentation of what's going onwith the traditional studio
(50:17):
system. I think that independent film
makers have an amazing opportunity in front of them to
actually jeopardize on the fact that they're all having to
scramble because their business models are having to shift and
they cannot shift quickly, whereas an independent filmmaker
really can. Perfect.
OK. Thanks for your time.
Thanks for you spend time with us and we'll keep you posted by
(50:41):
the show and then you can updated by your stuff.
I'm sure you're going to play amazing things in the future.
Appreciate that. Yeah.
Thank you. All right.
Well, thank you. Thanks for joining us on Film,
tech and Finance. Don't forget to follow and
subscribe for more insights and updates.
Welcome to Film Tech and Finance, where we explore the
cutting edge technology and financial strategies driving the
film industry today. So welcome back to our podcast.
Today, we're stepping inside theexecutive office to look at how
major projects move from drawingboard to global markets,
analyzing the capital, the craft, the cutting edge.
This is film, tech and finance. Our guest today is a seasoned
producer who understands exactlywhat it takes to get a project
(00:23):
across the finish line in a rapidly changing industry.
He has spent his life in and around film, and today he serves
as an Executive Vice President of 11th Hour Productions, where
he marries creative vision with financial strategy to help shape
the future of independent cinema.
As both a producer and senior executive, his role spans
(00:44):
development, financing, production, oversight and
distribution with a particular passion of design equitable
financial structures that ensurecast, crew and investors alike
sharing project success. Please welcome to our show
Stephen and Liu. Hey there, How's it going?
Thank you so much for having me.Really really excited to get
into this. Thanks.
Thanks for being here. You're actually one of our first
(01:05):
guests in this new endeavour hours to get the podcast switch
from just me speaking and talking about industry and
having guests like yourself. So to start out, tell us a
little bit about yourself. I mean, I did a little research.
It's just I saw so many things. So just tell us a little bit the
history. Yeah.
Well, my name is Steven Enlow. I help run 11th Hour Productions
(01:27):
with Jacqueline Fabricius and Lori Enlow, who also happened to
be my sister and my mother. 11thHour Productions is the
production company that we formed just a few years ago.
Between my family and I, we had all been working in the film
industry for a long time, varying amounts for each of us,
(01:48):
but I am coming up on pretty much 20 years in the film
industry now myself. I child acted, so that's a big
part of that. Started acting when I was very
young and did that for about 14 years and that was really my
first look at the industry. I grew up around my dad who was
a screenwriter still is and and a producer as well as a
(02:09):
director. And so I grew up around quite a
bit of this and getting a lot ofinformation, whether I liked it
or not, really growing up arounda very analytical kind of, but
still very creative kind of sidefrom the screenwriter point of
view. And just my dad being even the
the film buff film historian that he is.
(02:30):
And then going into my own version or my own part of the
craft, so to speak, being an actor and seeing it from those
different angles. And then moving forward into the
seat of a producer when I was even just in my kind of late
teenage years, all three of those different perspectives I
think have have given me the perspective that I do currently
(02:51):
have. And I think have given me a lot
of a lot of understanding and a lot of empathy for many of the
different aspects of the film industry that I I really do
think are very important to holdand to give weight to properly.
And, and they make me into the producer that I am today.
I'm really, really grateful for those.
Nice. So tell us a little bit about
(03:12):
projects that you have done already and projects that you're
working on right now. Yeah, I think one of the biggest
projects that I'm most excited about is Treasure Trove.
It's the first feature film thatwe completed as a 11th Hour
Productions and it is really just getting finished up.
We had our first screening of it.
There was a private, you know, friends and family screening
(03:34):
recently and we had some really good reception of that.
It was just nice to see it up ona big screen and and to see all
the the different parts of it put up together.
But that is currently going out for distribution and, and we're
likely going to be taking a direct to streaming approach on
the distribution of that film just for the the sake of exactly
(03:55):
what that film is and, and who we have in it and some of our
specific marketing strategies that we have with that.
But it's, it's something we're really proud of.
It's a really fun film about, you know, 2 best friends who are
on their way out of town and endup getting sucked into this hobo
treasure hunt. And it is really.
(04:15):
It's as eclectic and fun and wacky as it sounds, but
essentially it is following these two main characters as
they encounter, you know, criminal ex-girlfriend, eve
older brother, a gang of hobos, a scorpion Wrangler of all
people. And essentially all those crazy
characters are after them by theend of the film and subsequently
(04:37):
after the treasure. So that should be out, should be
out soon, actually on on a streaming service or multiple
streaming services to be announced.
And that's what we're probably most proud of right now.
And what we're really, what we're really working really hard
on, on those marketing strategies and campaigns,
whether it's internally or with some of our cast members or
(04:58):
with, with our PR team at for our media.
But, but we're really excited about that.
We, we have a lot of other projects that we've worked on.
We've have a few short films that have done pretty well in
the festival circuit. I have been awarded well and,
and been nominated for some really big stuff.
And, and that's actually what I think has gotten us a good
amount of exposure thus far is when I walk in places and say
(05:23):
who I am or I talk to people andthey ask me what my company is
and I say 11th Hour Productions.A lot of the time I actually get
people now in the past couple ofyears that actually say, oh, I
know of 11th Hour productions. I've heard of you guys, which is
a really nice feeling. It's it's not something that I
think you get early on as a filmmaker.
And I think it just speaks to the importance of longevity in
(05:46):
this industry because it's a very, very hard industry.
Yeah, hard work pays off. Hard work pays off.
Yeah. And, and, you know, sticking
through it is really a big part of it because there's so many,
there's so many points all the way throughout it that it just
seems like like there's a lot ofdarkness or that there's, you
know, even I think things feel like failures sometimes.
(06:08):
But you know, the importance of having a really good team around
you, the importance of having people who want to see you win
and actually like talking with them and strategizing and
figuring out where you did fail.But moving forward with, you
know, the correct steps moving forward from that I think is
important. So.
So a little bit about because a lot of our viewers are going to
(06:28):
be film makers, actually young ones.
So what would you suggest and somebody that starts now and
wants to build something like your company something.
So they want to create a companywhere they do productions and
they try to do the distribution.So what would be an easy way to
start first of all? And then what should they be
(06:50):
prepared for? Let me put it that way.
Yeah, I think that there's a fewreally key things that
definitely helped me and a few key things that I think I would
probably give myself my younger self some advice on.
One of the things that I think helped the most was having a
team that I could trust. Luckily for me, that's my
family. But find a team.
(07:10):
Find a team of people that you can actually build with.
You cannot do it all. Just absolutely you cannot do it
all. And if you do, you'll burnout
and it'll take longer and that'sfine.
I know a lot of people who can weather the storm of a burnout
and have it's not fun. Definitely don't recommend it.
And they'll get back on the horse and they'll, they'll
finish the project or they'll keep on going, etcetera.
(07:30):
But you end up walking away fromthat one of a few ways.
You end up walking away from that a little bit more jaded, or
you end up walking from that a little bit more exhausted, or
you end up walking away from that and walking away from the
whole thing entirely. And obviously you don't want
that. So kind of like what I was
talking about before, the longevity of this industry.
This is not an industry where I think people should ever be
(07:53):
looking at a get rich quick scheme of being here for five
years and being done. I like to tell people that,
yeah, I've been here for 20 years now, but I'm here for
another 50 in 10 years. When people are asking questions
about what the film industry is doing, I'm here to answer them
in 20 years and 30 years and 40 years, 50 years.
I'm not here to build something that is going to make a bunch of
(08:15):
money and then be done and out of here in five years or 10
years. Realistically, I'm here to,
yeah, hopefully build something that does some really hit, some
really success, successful metrics, whether it's monetarily
or awards wise or just audience wise or just creating the right
pieces of art that I want to create, whatever that is for
you. You know, I think that you
should be looking at it in a really, really narrow timelines
(08:41):
in certain aspects. But but but lengthen your
timeline for sure. Shorten your timeline for your
small goals. I like to also tell people that
you have much less time than youthink and much more time than
you think because your goals of the things you want to hit now
go out and make them happen now.You know, if it's going to take
(09:03):
you a month, what would take, what would it take for it to
happen in a week? You know, if it's going to take
you 5 months, six months, 8 months, 10 months, a year, what
would it require of you or of your budget or of your team,
etcetera for that to happen in one month?
Not that you necessarily need toactually hit that, but I do
think that that's a very, very useful mental exercise for you
(09:24):
to get used to of assessing whatit would take, what it would
require of you or others around you to actually make something
happen quicker. Because I think that it
alleviates a lot of anxiety. There is, I saw a study recently
actually that said that males 25to 35 of some of the highest
(09:47):
anxiety levels, specifically when they have the view that
they're running out of time, which is a growing demographic
of people within the world. Not to discount anyone any other
demographics anxieties about anything or to place even more
weight on it than any others really, but they are some of the
highest anxiety levels. Which I think is interesting
because I think if people peopletreated their short term goals
(10:09):
as very, very short term and tried to reach them as quickly
as possible, I think a lot of the anxiety about the long term
goals would actually be alleviated.
But you have all the time in theworld to do your your long term
goals. And I think that you should view
it as your short term goals thatyou are, you're already out of
time kind of. Yeah.
(10:31):
The best day to start a diet wasyesterday or two years ago, but
all you have is today. That's all you can do.
Right, very good advice. Thank you.
Now I have one more for the filmpart and then we'll go to a
little bit of tech, which I liketo talk about.
Awesome. So for the film, what do you
think about the new trend right now without like the vertical
videos, a little short clips where they promote them as
(10:53):
they're not film, Of course they're not film, they're just
videos. Most of them are done by phone,
right? Yeah, but I mean, some are doing
very good, right? And they're money, but is that
something that can be incorporated in this industry as
a film or should it be somethingseparate?
And then what's your take about that?
Like should new people focus more on that then creating long
form film? Because it's a lot easier and
(11:14):
cheaper, right? Sometimes.
I think that it really just depends on on your definitions,
your goals, etcetera. I would, I would.
Let's take this example. You know the film Scorsese, the
Irishman, it's about a billion years long, right?
That's a film, right? Do you know the film Madagascar
cartoon film, right? Barely, I think spans 75
(11:38):
minutes, 78 minutes or somethinglike that.
Really, really short. That's a film too.
Double the length, different format completely.
Both films. So realistically, you have such
a vast a variety of what we qualify as films.
So if you want to call a vertical a film or not, or if
you want to call it a series or something else, like sure.
(12:01):
But at that point we get into semantics.
You know, at the end of the day,there's an audience and there's
a growing audience for it. Whether or not you want to be a
part of making them or you want to be a part of consuming them,
that's a completely different story all in of itself.
You know that's do it or don't consume it or don't use your
time watching them or don't use your time making them or don't
(12:23):
you know the if, if that's wherethe audience is, then that's
intrinsically going to be where some of the money is.
So if you want a little bit of if you want an easier time
getting specifically that money,then I think it's your decision
to then go forward and try and utilize some of the budget
that's being currently allocatedby some of these larger
(12:44):
corporations to do that. And I honestly, I think that
storytelling is storytelling to a certain extent, you know, just
because somebody's doing something on previously.
If you look at Robert Rodriguez,if you looked at his earliest
film being shot on, you know, really low grade equipment and
kind of just being a running gungorilla production.
(13:05):
If you were to ask some of the snobbiest directors in Hollywood
at the time if he was making real films, then some of them
probably would have said no. I obviously, you know, if you
look at his interviews and my own personal opinions and a lot
of other critics of opinions andwhat actually ended up being
taken and majorly distributed, that was a real film.
(13:27):
So just because it's on different equipment or it's
filmed in a different way or whatever, I think the difference
is, is there an actual story? There is, as an artist actually
getting to do what they want in a certain aspect of it, and how
do you define it and what do youwant your involvement of it to
be? Right, right.
Very nice. And now my other question would
be for technology. And I told you earlier and I'm
going to jump on this question after you give me Prince a
(13:48):
pitch. So how do you guys embrace in
your company new technology likefor example AIVR or newer ways
of doing productions? Because we see a huge trend
right now. People are trying to leave the
studio, the traditional studio set and try to create video
however they can. Some some people say lower
budget but I don't know about the quality though.
But how do you guys handle that?How do you guys handle AI and
(14:13):
you know, new equipment than software hardware?
I think that and I think that there's a lot of different
branches and kind of avenues youcan go down with AI itself and
technology as almost its full own separate aspect.
Generative AII think we have to separate out whether it's for
(14:33):
the sake of controversy itself or outside perspectives or
anything else. I think that we have to separate
out generative AI in terms of technology, not including
generative AI. I think you have to embrace it.
I think that you have to understand it in a certain
extent. I think that, you know, you have
(14:55):
different films over the past handful of years even was it
Roma, right? That was shot on a on a red
Monstro, which is theoretically in some ways some of the highest
technology we have because of the dynamic range with that
camera can actually capture, butit's also black and white.
So is that progression or regression in technology?
(15:16):
I don't know, but it was really,really well received.
And so in terms of that kind of technology there, there's also a
bunch of other things like, you know, if we're if we're really,
if you're taking a stance against technology, then like is
slow motion bad? You know, it's like, it's like
the plot of Singing in the Rain,you know, like can we can we
even have talking movies as opposed to previously when we
(15:40):
couldn't? And so I think that that's one
aspect of it, that if you do want to actually be involved in
the entertainment industry, you are intrinsically saying you do
want to be involved in an industry that is made-up of rule
Breakers, of innovators, of people who want to test the
limits and of people who may or may not have access to the most
expensive technology at all times.
(16:01):
So a piece of technology that makes the industry itself or the
ability to capture commercial grade entertainment more
accessible or more equitable, I think is almost always a good
thing. We've lowered the barrier to
entry to make really, really high quality content quite a bit
(16:23):
from what we used to have, whichI think is an amazing thing
because it gives entertainers, artists, storytellers more
ability to tell stories that they otherwise would not have.
And not everyone has the abilityto go ask their parents, ask
family friends, ask, you know, abank, ask anyone for large sums
(16:43):
of money to make what would be classified as a traditional
level of production. But that doesn't mean they can't
make great films anymore. I think that that leads pretty
well into the discussion about generative AI because you have
films like Princess Mumbi that, you know, premiered at at the
Venice Film Festival this year and got obviously very, very
(17:04):
mixed like reviews. But I think overall had some
really high acclaim. And I know in watching that film
myself, I saw a lot of beauty inthe storytelling.
Just undeniably there was a filmmaker that previously to
generative AI could not have made that film.
(17:27):
Whether or not they should have or should not have or that
should be something they are allowed to do or not.
That's I'm not speaking on that at all, honestly.
But you have somebody from a, aneconomic and geographical
background that otherwise could not have made that specific
(17:48):
story. So I think if you're saying that
generative AI should not be used, then I think you're
intrinsically saying that that storyteller should not be able
to make that film and distributeit to the world in a free market
or that I guess that a free market shouldn't exist.
(18:08):
Which at that point, like honestly, that's a fine argument
to make if that's your opinion. But but that is as
intrinsically, I think what you're arguing is that that
filmmaker should not have the right to make that film, which I
do think that there are good arguments for both sides of I
do. I've heard some very, very
intelligent and I think respectable people that I
respect their views on humanity quite a bit.
(18:31):
Argue either way about that realistically, because you're
not saying that that the storytellers shouldn't be able
to tell the story, but you are saying that the other artists
who whose work were used in order to train those models,
that those artists should not have had their IP effectively
stolen. And I think that that's a really
(18:52):
good argument. As well, right?
I mean, so it's a long conversation.
I mean, you can go deep in that in different ways you go.
I was thinking more of the creative side of it because
right now, I mean, we're using AIA lot of times just to create
some simple stuff, but we try not to use it too much because
then you're not in control of the creative, right?
(19:13):
Because you're. Yeah.
But is that, is that the problemor not?
You know, is the problem human control or not?
I almost think that it's really not, you know, if.
You use it for good, it's good, right?
If you use it for bad, it's bad.I mean that's that's a general
rule of thumb. Right.
I mean, but to find that, I think really it's like, I think
that you could argue that Princess Mumbi used it for good
(19:33):
because it actually in and of itself, the entire film is about
questioning the usage of AI and how that affects our control of
humanity and if we should actually have the level of
control of the perception of humanity that we do via AI,
which is funny because it does that.
But I do think that, I mean, I can say this like 11th Hour
(19:54):
Productions specifically just speaking for us as an umbrella
of everything we make, not necessarily all as individuals,
but. Everything underneath the roof
of Menthar productions. We're not using generative AI in
any of our productions. So I do think that there's a lot
of value that is currently beingmissed in the production cycle
(20:17):
by the usage of AII think there's a lot of beauty that
gets uncovered in a story or or rather developed in certain
menial tasks and developmental kind of transfers of information
from this to this or in the storyboarding process or in the
that whole thing. And when you run creative
(20:38):
through the filter of AI, you effectively homogenize a lot of
aspects of the creative development process that do.
I think if you're an actual likeattuned person to creativity,
you can find a lot of inspiration and very many tiny
little things. I mean, if you, if you track
back even just major directors, if you, if you calculate all the
(21:00):
random little things in interviews where they're like,
oh, I got the idea for this thing that ended up being the
Super impactful thing that I wasdoing while I was in the line at
a grocery store or because I spilled my coffee on my pad as I
was, you know, sketching or etcetera, etcetera.
The menial tasks, the what makesup being a human.
A lot of those things actually do cause was some really amazing
(21:22):
inspirations and I do think thatsome of that is going to be
lost. Yeah, unfortunately we'll see
the future one holds. So now with going back to the
subject with the film tech and finance, Yeah, distribution.
Distribution is a big thing. A lot of a lot of creators, they
just think, OK, I'll just make amovie, I'll just make a film,
I'll just make a short. And then what?
And then you just have a file. What do you do with it, Right?
(21:45):
What would you suggest or how doyou guys handle distribution?
I mean, I understand it depends on what you have like is it
gonna be for film? It's gonna be.
But in general, how do you handle that and and what's the I
would say the best way to deal with that per project?
Yeah, I think it is exactly whatyou just said.
It's a per project basis. It's it's who's your audience.
I think it does come back to empathy in a lot of ways of who
(22:07):
actually cares who is this storyfor?
Who's this piece of media for? I think intrinsically depending
even on like the medium, the file format itself, whether
that's a vertical or that's a long form video or that's a
short form video, etcetera. I think that that even
determines who maybe not determines, but it narrows down
who your audience may most likely be.
(22:28):
And so I think marrying the format of media that you
actually decide to capture your story in with who your actual
demographic is, is is there a, let's say this is a story that's
super old timey and you want to make this story that really,
really, really connects with people who are between the ages
(22:49):
of 75 and 90. You know, what's like a really
random specific demographic. You probably don't want to make
that for a social media format, right, Right.
And that's a really like, that'sa really like drastic example.
But also you can get much more into the minutiae of it of like,
realistically, where does your audience actually like to
(23:09):
consume that exact type of media?
And so if all you can make is a short video, OK.
I mean, I just had a few friendsof mine were in this, in this
amazing short called passing. I don't know if you've seen it,
but it's a little short about about two people in New York, a
(23:30):
guy and a girl in New York who see each other across a
crosswalk. And it's about their interaction
of just passing by each other and then deciding to, because
one of them actually looks at the other instead of like
looking back at their phone, decides to actually have a
conversation. And then they meet and they have
a real nice little meet cute interaction.
(23:50):
It's a beautiful story and and Ithink it just surpassed like 7
or 8 or 9 million views or something crazy like that.
And they put it out directly on social media, like direct to
social media. They made the project.
And I remember I saw that and I don't think it, I think I saw it
like right when it got put up. Basically I I'd like responded
(24:10):
to my friend Carter and I was like, man, this is so cool.
This is like, I love this whole thing.
And then his Co star ended up being in our table read and she
was amazing. And and so it's like, you know,
what's the point of your of yourpiece of media?
Is it just to connect with people?
Because if that's it, yes, distribution.
I'm sorry, I'm getting far off the topic of distribution, but I
(24:31):
think it does come back down to the story.
Like if they would have put it out anywhere, it would have been
an amazing film that connected with a lot of people.
I think it could have done well in festivals.
It could have done well, whatever it is.
You know, this could be something that it proved that it
connected well with people and it was a very kind of poignant
thing to I think where a lot of people in the demographic are
(24:53):
AT. But that's I think because they
just focused on having a good story and then telling it well
and capturing it well. And they just put it out your
distribution, I think is you figure out where that goes best.
And so for our film currently, it's it's a, it's a feature film
that is shot on, you know, traditional, you know, like a
wide screen format. And we have somebody, an actress
(25:17):
named Madison Yazak, previously Mads Lewis, some people know her
as who has, I think collectivelysomewhere around 20 million
followers across all of her platforms.
And she's done an amazing job ofactually capturing her audience.
And and not it sounds weird whenyou say capturing your audience,
but capturing the attention of your audience and paying
attention to actually what they want to see.
(25:38):
And as a, as a content creator, as an actress who was previously
in I think a few dozen seasons of a web series, she got to know
that kind of interaction well. And we were on on a marketing
strategy call with her. And she just immediately was
like, well, there's one of thesein there right in the story.
And we were like, yeah, there is.
She was like, what if, what if Idid one of these videos?
(26:00):
I was like, Oh my gosh, it was something I would never would
have thought of as a marketer, as a producer, as somebody, but
she knows her audience and she knows her interactions with
them. She knows what they actually
like to see and what they interact with and what intrigues
them, etcetera. And so as film makers, I think
there's a lot to learn within that.
I have another, I have another friend, Gray, who is, I think
(26:22):
some people view more as like aninfluencer, content creator, but
is a very talented filmmaker as well.
Not to knock that side of it at all, because that's a lot of
hard work that you again have topay a lot of attention to your
audience. But I think he made a really
good film called senior prank. You should go and watch it.
It's on Tubi and it was a beautiful, amazing little like,
like, I don't say little film, but an amazing film that you
know, it's just it's about aboutthis story of a senior prank.
(26:46):
You know, these these friends and the bonding that goes into
it. I don't want to like talk too
much about it and misquote it, but I, I think it's a really
great film. And I think that he got that
from being a content creator that pays attention to his
audience, that knows who his demographic is, that knows who
some of his people are and kind of mixing that with his own
creative vision. And he found a distribution
platform in Toby, which I think is a fantastic platform that I
(27:11):
think is serving him well and isserving his audience well.
So. Nice here.
I mean, yes, content creators, Imean, there's one way to look at
it. They can just create and then,
you know, try to distribute it. But that's a hard way because
they might create something that's not for the market right
now, or they can readjust what they create for the market.
Such a ways to think of it. Yeah.
(27:32):
I mean, I think you see even other like a Markiplier just
made Iron Lawn, right. And with his audience and all of
his hard work and a lot of the things that he did, I mean
that's a full conversation and of itself.
But but he got major theatrical distribution for that.
That is narrow going like nationwide in I think 3 or 4
(27:52):
last time I saw of like the largest theater chains in
America. It's crazy.
And he, he comes from the world of YouTube.
But again, paid attention to hisaudience, made a great piece of
media, paid attention to where they want to watch it, what kind
of thing they want to do. And that's awesome.
That's like the dream as an independent filmmaker is being
able to actually have your finger on the pulse of who your
(28:13):
audience is and then go out and actually serve those people.
Again, I think it comes back to the empathy of understanding who
who your audience is and who youwant to serve.
OK, perfect. One other question for you right
now. And then try to pick your brains
because you're very good at this.
So finance, finance when it comes to funding, I know a lot
of everybody struggles there andhow do you, how do you get
people to give you money, right?That's the most important part.
(28:35):
Or companies, of course, are companies right now.
Yeah. And I think it's it's, it's a
similar thing. I think it's kind of twofold.
I think that it's a similar thought process to when you're,
when you're talking about distribution, you're talking
about an audience. And if you're talking about an
audience, you have to think about what they want.
And when you think about what they want, you go back and it
comes back to I think the story itself, the storytelling.
(28:57):
When you're talking about the other side of it, the finance
side of it, you I think very similarly do a very similar like
reverse engineering. You figure out who your actual
people that you're approaching are.
You figure out what they want out of it.
One thing that I do consult on, on independent productions and
with other independent producerson their financial structuring
(29:17):
and on their like financial modeling projections, you know
investment kind of packages or approaches so to speak and just
speak with them about about thatwhole process.
And one of the things that I tell those people very often is
investors are people too. And it's, it's funny that you
even have to say that because it's so obvious.
(29:37):
But at the same time, so many film makers view this purely as
an art. And if that's the case, then
that's fine. But you cannot then go and lie
to a bunch of people and tell them that it's a business.
It's a very fundamentally different things.
If it's about the art, then you're trying to go to get
people to give you money to makeThe best part, Don't worry about
any of the budget. Don't worry about any of the
(29:59):
funding. Don't worry any of it.
Just go and convince people to give, give you money to make the
best art. And that that becomes what you
have to convince people of is that you are now the best person
to make that art. So that's where your emphasis is
on if you want to actually go and convince people to make an
investment, then that's a completely different story.
That is where I actually I like to be personally, because I do
think that you can the, the beauty of the entertainment
(30:20):
industry is that it's an industry, it's a business.
So you, you have this ability togo look at the market, look at
your audience, see what they want to see.
And then there's this like really creative, awesome overlap
map of how those things marry together of like finding, OK, if
that's what I can get out of it,if that's what that audience is
willing to give me back in return for it, is they're
(30:43):
willing to watch X amount of it.Or I think I can get X amount of
people to watch it, whether it'sin a theater with that audience
wants to see this kind of content in a theater or on a
streaming service or on a whatever.
And I can prove that basically because that's how I got to that
conclusion myself. Then I can go and I can reverse
engineer that to say, OK, can I tell that if that's what that
needs to be? And if I need to, if my
(31:03):
investors that I think I have the ability to go have access to
are looking for X amount out of this?
You know, it's certain types of investors want a really small
return, but they want a lot of data backing it or they want it
to be quicker or whatever it is.And other investors really want
to kind of just play the Lotto and hit the jackpot and they
want to swing for the fences. Others want to have more
(31:25):
diversification. Who's your investor and what do
they want out of it? And then structuring it that way
and saying, OK, cool, I know my investors investor is like,
let's take a really a much more likely case.
There's somebody who cares in some way about me as a person.
They kind of like me as a person.
They want to see me thrive as a whatever.
So that's, that's a bonus. They want to see good art out in
the world. So that gives me a little bit of
(31:45):
forgiveness. This is intrinsically an, a
risky investment. So they want something out of
it. I can prove some sort of aspect
through data of some sort of like viability for that.
And then basically, how am I going to hit that exact
multiple? Can I get that from streaming?
Can I get that from theatrical? What are the costs that I would
incur for if that's streaming distribution or what are what
(32:08):
are the costs that I would incurmarketing wise for if that is a
theatrical release and it's a whole model, I think.
So reverse engineering it and figuring out exactly what your
investors specifically want is the first step.
What exactly do they want and how can you or can you give that
to them? Like if they, if you know this
(32:29):
type of media because of a bunchof comparables, like we could
get into comps and how you can actually track the data and
what's reliable and what's not. But let's say you have a very
clear picture that like there's a statistical likelihood that
you may be able to make $10 million on one given project A.
(32:51):
What are like, do you think you can make that level of quality
of a project for this budget now?
And what's the marketing cost going to be on top of that?
You're going to have to pay backand take out of that.
And then let's say you can make the movie for two, you can
market it for another three or five or whatever or two, which I
know sounds like a crazy number for a lot of independent film
makers, but let's call it two and two.
(33:11):
And you think you can make a $10million total on that.
Then if your investors want AX of some sort or you know, 1.5 X
within three years or five or four years or five years or five
years or so, then maybe you havea viable project on your hands
that you can reasonably without in good faith actually go to
(33:33):
investor. But let's say your investors
only want to invest in a projectif it can get them a 4X multiple
because it's so risky, then you can't make that project in good
faith. You need to either tell them we
have a one in 300 chance of making that right, right.
Or, and you just say, look, I think we can do it.
And if you can convince them that with being honest about the
(33:55):
like very, very bleak odds and they're happy with that, then
amazing, go out and do that. But I think honesty, empathy,
knowing who your investors are, knowing what they want out of
it, and then very, very brutallyhonestly with you and your
production team, asking yourselfwhether or not you actually can
(34:17):
do that within a reasonable amount of statistical
likelihood. That's what that's what you
should be doing as an independent filmmaker.
Because we have to be very, verycareful as independent film
makers. If you do a bad job, you might
not make another movie. That's a huge deal for me,
right, Right. I want to want to be doing this
in 50 years and if I am not doing this responsibly, that is
(34:38):
going to be very, very hard. Yeah, quality is is very
important. Yeah.
Yeah, it's it goes far away. So now let's talk a little bit
about festivals. The festival is one way to get
your job out there. And there's one way to to meet
people. And I've been to many festivals
and in Europe, here in the US, So there's one coming now next
(35:00):
month, right? There's one Sundance.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I I.
Heard something? That's what I didn't say.
Yeah, yeah. What do you say?
Go ahead with your question. Right.
Yeah. So yeah, you're gonna be, you're
gonna be in Sundance this year, right.
You're gonna be there as a company or you're gonna be there
as a guest or. Yeah, no, it's a great question
to back up, I think. I think festivals are fantastic.
(35:21):
I I really do love them. I I think that the view on them
and the usefulness of festivals has slightly shifted.
One thing that I think is a hugebenefit to independent film
makers is that as we move more digital as a society, the
importance and the value that weplace intrinsically on in person
experiences has gone up significantly.
(35:44):
When we have an in person experience with somebody or
something or a piece of media oror just a real person in front
of us with a real conversation, the value of that is really,
really high for us because it has just mentally there's a
higher level of scarcity within that.
And so the usefulness of being present at a festival I think
(36:07):
has gone significantly. I will say that the statistics
of independent, truly independent films finding
preferable distribution deals through festivals, excluding
markets, but festivals has gone down every single year for the
past handful of years. So if your goal is to get your
(36:28):
film into festivals in order to find a financially viable
distribution deal, then statistically you're much less
likely to do that now than you were previously.
So all opinions aside, you know,a lot of people kind of preach
that the sky is falling with festivals and they're useless,
or they're this or they're that.I fully disagree with those
(36:50):
people. I think this statistically, if
you're only looking at looking at one set of statistics and
that one set of statistics beingfinancially viable distribution
deals, then yes, I think that you can't argue with that
metric. But if you look at other
societal metrics of people valuing in person interactions,
(37:11):
more people having a like draw towards in person immersive
experiences, more to generally disruptive experiences and
experiential kind of places, that is all trending massively
upward. Whether you're talking about
live sports or you're talking about music festivals or you're
(37:31):
talking about film festivals, people's actual view,
interaction and value of those has actually just gone up
societally massively. So I think that being present at
festivals is really, really important, which is why 11th
Hour is doing a a huge kind of set of activations.
(37:52):
So Hour Productions is holding aset of events in Park City this
year on Main Street during the Sundance Film Festival.
And we're holding Wellness mornings, coffee hours, panels,
fireside chats, speakers, cocktail hours, private parties,
et cetera, all at our venue thatwe have.
(38:12):
That's just two doors up from the Egyptian Theatre on Main
Street in Park City for the entire weekend 1 during Sundance
Film Festival. And so we have a lot going on
there Friday morning through Monday night.
And we believe in presence at festivals.
We believe in creating disruptive, immersive,
experiential experiences that are in the presence of the other
(38:37):
disruptors, the other innovators, the other
independent film makers who are invested in changing and
innovating the industry. And that's what we're doing.
We were really focused on all ofour programming providing a
space for independent film makers to have really tangible,
accessible, actionable kind of conversations so that they can
(39:01):
actually go out into the world with these really tangible
action items. And the really innovative ideas
that they get to talk with otherindependent film makers who
maybe were, you know, have done it before or maybe are on a
panel actually. Or even just the people that are
sitting next to them who are interested in the same kind of
conversations about distribution, finance,
(39:24):
marketing, about different minorities and different kind of
marginalized voices in filmmaking.
Different avenues of getting allthese different aspects of the
film industry done and doing them creatively and, and
treating people while we're doing it.
(39:46):
And that's kind of what all of our our programming is focused
towards is I think if I could say one last thing about film
festivals, realistically, I do love film festivals and I love a
lot of the programming that I'vebeen to at Sundance, at Con, at
a bunch of other festivals. But one thing that I think
(40:07):
sometimes lacks from the conversations, this kind of
tangible aspect of where do we go from here?
And sometimes the conversation is a bit disconnected from.
The independent world, a lot of the time you get this split
within a panel or a fireside chat or conversation that you're
(40:31):
either speaking with somebody who is so gorilla and so
independent that they are talking about it.
Like, just get whatever money you can, crowdfund however you
can and just go out there and gorilla shoot.
Don't worry about permits, don'tworry about permissions.
Just make it happen and make thebest piece of art that you can.
(40:52):
And the other side of the coin is, well, you need to be able to
pitch this to an executive out of studio and it needs to make
sense for them within their mandates and within what they're
seeing within the data. And both sides of that coin, I
think are kind of they're not giving a chance for the people
(41:12):
who want to split the differenceof that to have any sort of
voice or understanding or advice.
Because I think that there are alot of independent film makers
that do want to make real amazing art that is also
financially and commercially viable.
That gets out to maybe not a audience that's going to hit
(41:33):
2500 or 3500 screens on, you know, major theatrical release,
but maybe could have a limited theatrical release or could very
respectively have a very amazingrun at a digital release.
Whether that's, you know, straight to a Netflix or an SVOD
of that sort. Or if it's a more grassroots
(41:55):
distribution strategy of going to T VOD 1st and seeing what you
can get from rentals and purchases and then shifting over
to an AVOD and trying to prove your audience and then maybe
getting picked up by an SVOD. And, and that kind of stretch
that a lot of independent distributors like to outline.
But either way, I think that that is a missing piece for a
(42:18):
lot of a lot of panels and firesides and speakers and
programming at independent festivals.
And that's exactly what we plan to hit is not just the people
who want to gorilla make a film,which I respect a bunch and I
love, but also not the people who necessarily want to wait for
(42:39):
a studio to give them permissionto do something.
I want to speak and create a place for conversation to be had
to independent film makers who want to actually go out
responsibly, structure a project, responsibly develop
that project that is going to bea great piece of art that is
going to reach a good audience, fundraise for it, produce it to
(43:03):
make sure that it gets out therecorrectly, and then market it.
I want to talk to those people. Those are the independent film
makers who I think are really, really going to have an amazing
run in the next 5 to 10 years. A lot of opportunity there.
Perfect. So let me ask you this, besides
Sundance, which I'm sure it's going to be fun and it's going
to be great. I mean we just described, it's
just amazing. Thank you for.
(43:25):
So if somebody wants to get a hold of you and talk to you
about all this website, is that any other way we can get a hold
of you or I mean, on the show we're gonna have information
about your company and everything, but they just shoot
you an e-mail and or they go on your website and.
Yeah, no, I think that, I mean, I'll make sure that you guys
have my my information contact wise for the show as well.
(43:47):
But yeah, our website has our contact info in there as well.
Our social media, which is mostly Instagram, but but our
website and our social media aredefinitely the easiest ways to
contact us. And that'll honestly probably go
either to directly to me or or one of my other partners that
will be able to point it to me or to one of them, answer any
(44:08):
questions anyone has. Perfect.
I think we covered everything. I mean, we talked about the
whole industry, the whole everything.
And I'm sure if we stayed here, we could have talked for another
four or five hours. And I'm sure, yeah.
Yeah, but I think thank you verymuch for your time.
Really nice. If there's anything else you
want to add to this because we can edit at the end, anything
else like your future plans or anything like you're working on
(44:29):
specific now besides Sunday after Sundance, what would you?
Are you working on something specific, like a specific
project specific, movie specific, or what we just
covered earlier? Yeah.
I think that for us the the big wrap UPS for for where we're at
right now in the beginning of I guess Q1 of 2026 are the release
of Treasure Trove. That's a really big deal for us
(44:51):
right now. This lounge, the 11th hour lodge
in Park City during Sundance this year and moving forward,
but we're going to be doing similar experiential kind of
immersive venue spaces at other festivals as well.
We're looking at CON, we're looking at TIFF and a couple of
the other ones really, really like to be present at major
(45:13):
markets specifically. That's why I love CON.
But yeah, that's really it for us right now.
We have a few other films that are in development currently,
but in terms of public view of things, those are definitely the
most pressing for us. Sounds sounds interesting, very
interesting. And I'm sure you're very busy
with it. It's not, it's not a small
(45:33):
thing. I mean, I know you're working
with it. So you probably thinks like,
yeah, that's it. But that's, I just said that's a
lot of stuff. And it's amazing.
Yeah. Because you go besides a
production company that just produces, I mean, you interact
and you want to create a space, as you said, that's just
amazing. So keep us posted on everything
how you do. If we can, you know, upload and
promote it, we will do it. And then before big, before big
(45:55):
events, we can jump in. It's going to be, you know, a
little bit different to set up. It's going to be a lot more
organized right now, but we're going to get it.
We can. We can promote events before or
during or after or whatever. We can't even visit.
Yeah, I mean, I've been to Cannes many times because I used
to be based in Europe, so. Will you be at Sundance or
anything this year by chance? I might for.
(46:17):
A lot of people, it's TBD, so yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't go every time, but yeah,
yeah, I don't know. Yeah, we'll see.
It's because it's the beginning of Q1 and we're doing a lot of
new things too. We're creating something also
so. Yeah, No, I, I, I do have one
last question. Sure.
I don't know if it's similar questions for some of the other
(46:38):
guests or anything, but I guess have you, have you heard any
specifically very differing opinions of of kind of what we
talked about? I'm always curious to hear about
what other. So this is what what struck me a
little bit on because and that'sour reason.
I asked for you about AI. Everybody was focused on AI and
everybody was kind of scared. So that's why I asked you.
(46:59):
I want to Give your opinion too.There's there's different
people. I mean, I talked this morning
with a gentleman outside the USImean the same concept as you
talked about, but they're a little bit afraid that the old
traditional studio system is gone and they're trying to
figure out like where to go or what to do.
But again, as I said, again, embracing a new era, a new
(47:22):
technology doesn't mean that theold one should die, right?
They they can adjust. That's the way I see it.
I mean, you see, now big studiosare open to smaller jobs too,
right? That's one good thing.
But in the past it was like, youknow, they had to have a huge
production to get in a big studio, right?
And that's good. But and then they're afraid
about social media. That's that's what kills them.
They're afraid that, you know, akid with an iPhone disrupts your
(47:46):
business, which as you said earlier, and I think you're
correct and I'm with, I'm on thesame page with you, is that's a
different market. That's something completely
different. I mean, you guys say if you
create a long form movie for thetheater, well, you don't care
if, you know, Instagram doesn't.Yeah, you're going to hit 8
million views on Instagram because that's not your
audience. You care about tickets on the
(48:07):
theater, right? Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if that answers your question, but the
market's right now a little bit.It's a little bit, you know,
fluid. A lot of people are afraid that
we're scared. A lot of people.
New things are coming. Technology is getting cheaper,
so more affordable. I would say we can buy very,
very good cameras or professional cameras, very
affordable home. I mean, that's.
(48:28):
No, it's that's interesting. I appreciate that.
No, it's always, it's always interesting hearing what other
film makers and other people areare putting out there.
I would say if I could, but honestly end with with
something, something that I do want to be out there honestly is
I think because of everything that you just said, I think that
there's never been a better timeto be an independent filmmaker,
(48:48):
truthfully, because I I don't see all these things aligning at
the same time any other time in history.
There's more access to high quality equipment than we've
ever had in the past. There's more access to a skilled
workforce that currently doesn'thave work, which is obviously a
bad thing in a lot of aspects, but for an independent filmmaker
means there's more access to that skilled workforce.
(49:10):
There's more independently held wealth than there ever has been
in the in the past, which means there's more people to actually
go and approach for film and there's more, there's more
content hours being watched for whatever kind of type of content
you're talking about. There's there's actual higher
consumption of media than there ever has been.
And on top of all that, there's never been as many avenues of
(49:33):
reaching those audiences for free, literally for free or for
different paid platforms. But there's never been all of
those things in as high levels as we currently have.
There sure as heck has never been those all at this level all
at the same time. So if you, if you mix all of
those into one thing, I don't think that that has ever existed
(49:55):
in the past. And I truthfully, I don't even
think that those will all exist in the same way in the Future
Past the next, you know, whatever you want to call it, 5
to 10 years. But I think that we we do
somewhat have a a bit of a golden window if we really,
really if we're able to actuallytake advantage of the current
fragmentation of what's going onwith the traditional studio
(50:17):
system. I think that independent film
makers have an amazing opportunity in front of them to
actually jeopardize on the fact that they're all having to
scramble because their business models are having to shift and
they cannot shift quickly, whereas an independent filmmaker
really can. Perfect.
OK. Thanks for your time.
Thanks for you spend time with us and we'll keep you posted by
(50:41):
the show and then you can updated by your stuff.
I'm sure you're going to play amazing things in the future.
Appreciate that. Yeah.
Thank you. All right.
Well, thank you. Thanks for joining us on Film,
tech and Finance. Don't forget to follow and
subscribe for more insights and updates.
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