February 18, 2026 • 37 mins
Most independent filmmakers are missing a massive window to revolutionize how we tell stories — and AI is the secret weapon they’re ignoring. In this eye-opening episode, a visionary creator reveals how AI-generated characters, virtual sets, and in-kind studio support are smashing traditional filmmaking boundaries. If you think Hollywood's last word on movies is set in stone, think again.
You’ll discover why chasing funding with just a script no longer cuts it — and why showing your proof of concept is your ticket to getting financed. Our guest shares raw truths about mastering AI tools, the importance of education in marketing your vision, and how to persuade investors with breakthrough tech and authentic storytelling. Plus, learn why big studios are racing to hoard AI tech, and how you can leap ahead of the gatekeepers.
We break down practical steps: how to build innovative projects from scratch, leverage in-kind support, and use AI to create characters so real they challenge our very definition of animation. If you’re an indie creator ready to disrupt Hollywood or a curious mind eager to understand the future of film, this episode is your call to action.
This is more than a conversation — it’s a blueprint for anyone who refuses to wait for the industry to catch up. The future belongs to those bold enough to pioneer now. Don’t get left behind. Hit play, and start rewriting the rules of filmmaking today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Film Tech and Finance, where we explore the
cutting edge technology and financial strategies driving the
film industry today. Where the art of the script
meets the logic of the Ledger. This is film, tech and finance.
Our guest today is the powerhouse of the intersection
of creativity and commerce. She is an Emmy Award-winning
filmmaker, a WGA nominee, and a true pioneer in multimedia
(00:23):
storytelling. As the founder and CEO of
American Productions, she spent her career proving that great
stories and great technology belong together.
Please welcome Lynn Rogoff well.Thank you for having me here.
I'm very excited. Thanks.
Thanks for being with us. So I have so many questions
today, so many questions. I've seen your, I did a little
(00:44):
research and I saw what you've done and it's just amazing.
And we're going to ask you aboutyour, you know, your, your work
and everything. So, so, so interesting right now
and so up to date with AI. But tell us a little bit about
yourself. Tell us a bit about your work
and your background and and you know how all this became part of
your journey. I got my MFA at NYU, School of
(01:10):
the Arts and Directing, and thenI moved into children's
television. I did Sesame Street, Big Blue
Marble, and then I had an opportunity to do a public
television PBS special on tap dancing and it was shown on
(01:31):
public television on Bravo, on Turner Broadcasting Now and
Canopy. It's become a classic and we
were the first to introduce black tap dancing that had been
dormant for decades. So it generated a whole new life
(01:55):
for the tap dancers and for tap dancing.
And then I moved on to do another film project which what
we ended up winning a grant fromWriters Guild to do a original
screenplay. And I found these wonderful love
(02:17):
letters and decided to make it. I turn it first into a
screenplay and then in it to a play.
And it was produced as a play. And then I moved on and we moved
into the game business and we did a game called Pony Express
Rider with for McGraw Hill. We launched their new division
(02:41):
called McGraw Hill Home Interactive, and so they put
1,000,005 into the game in the 90s.
And my company, which is called Americans Productions, was found
on the principle that we were going to traumatize American
(03:03):
history, American culture about young people who had done heroic
deeds when they were young. And so Pony breast riders were
young people. And then Pakajawiya was another
young person who had contributedto American history when she was
(03:23):
young. So we, I then decided after the
game Pony Express riders to investigate Pakajawiya.
And we just went to the visit with the Native Americans in
North Dakota during the Lewis and Clark bicentennial, which
(03:45):
was in two O 3 to two O 6. And at that time there was no
AI. There was no either you were
able to raise millions of dollars to do a period or that
was there. You just put it back in the
archives. So we got some interest, but we
(04:08):
couldn't raise the money. So we, I put it in the archives
and that's how I in between I did a lot of other projects, but
in general, that's how I got to where I got interested in
Sacagawea. And we, I had done all this
research, decades of research, and then when audio drama had
(04:33):
come into its own as a podcast genre, I said, well, I'll take
the screenplay and I'll make it into a series for audio.
And during COVID, I worked with a number of actors and we
recorded the audio for remotely during COVID.
(04:57):
And everybody was really grateful to have work during
COVID. And so we edited the whole thing
remotely and we, the composer worked remotely and the
musicians worked remotely. And so we, we edited the whole
entire audio drama series and itwas on Spotify and various other
(05:25):
platforms. And then we decided, I decided
because I was in the film business, that I really miss the
visual component. At that time, podcasts were not
really doing video, they were just doing audio.
And this was in 2019-2020. So I decided to investigate what
(05:51):
was then a new fledgling area called AI.
And so we decided to make AAI version of the film based on the
audio drama. So we work backwards.
We had the we had the scripts, Ihad the musicians, I had the
(06:13):
actors, I had the editors and the finished product.
And now we went back and made a film based on that audio.
So it was an unusual pathway. Right, Yeah, yeah, 'cause
usually we go for film 1st and then then we add the audio.
But it's interesting. It's interesting to find out.
(06:35):
Yeah. And then podcast right now, I
mean, it's more about video, right?
It's yeah. You know, at that time it
wasn't, there was no video support, very little, you know,
support for video. But now you can't you you have
to have video with your podcast pretty much to get an audience.
So I have a question for you. So why, why did you pick the
(06:58):
route of AI? And you, you told us a little
bit about it, but why didn't youthink of doing a traditional
movie like without AI, just withactors and just filming?
And do you think it was easier? It was harder.
It was you just want to well. Again, you know, yeah, you have
to raise millions of dollars to do a traditional modern story,
(07:18):
but then to do periods because this story takes place in the
wilderness of 18, early 1800s, of course, the whole continent
of America. And so there was no way that I
could raise that kind of money as an independent filmmaker.
(07:39):
And, you know, at that time there wasn't really that much
interested in female protagonists there and there
wasn't that much interested in Native American women as a
protagonist. So this was my interest and the
people that were working on the project really loved it and
(08:02):
really wanted to tell the story.So we told it in the way that we
could, you know, we, we could doit with AI tools.
And then when I discovered a tool called VID, we were able to
work with the technology companyup there were overseas company
(08:23):
and they supported what we were doing.
So there was a lot of positive support for what we did.
It just was one of these projects that people love to
work on. Nice.
So since you finished the first series, the first part, what was
(08:46):
the reaction of the people, 'cause right now there's a lot
of misinformation. I would say a lot of people are
afraid of AI. How did the people, the
creators, I understand they embraced it, as you said, and
they helped you, but how did thepeople react to that?
So if when you went to some festival do you went to
festivals and you got some awards, how was the audience
accepting this as AI? No, we got Wells Film Festival
(09:10):
Awards and so the people at the film festivals loved it and
'cause it was so unique and novel because of what we did was
we took a story from the 1800s and we made it into a modern
look and feel kind of story thatit looked the characters look
(09:31):
like they're 21st century characters, people.
They don't look like, oh, you know, with some people from 200
years ago. So that was made it engaging.
That's the way we told the storywhere we talk directly to the
audience was very much in the genre of game technology where
(09:56):
you, you break the 4th wall and you're, you're the characters
talk directly to the audience. So we had to do it it that way.
In order to get the technology to work, in order to have the
characters speak direct, move the faces, move the characters,
say the dialogue that we're importing, it had to have the
(10:20):
face directly to the camera. So it ended up being, you know,
taking something that was an obscure technology and making it
work for modern filmmaking. Nice.
So that's, that was my other question.
That's more of a technical question.
So you actually have a real character be behind every
(10:40):
animated character technically, right.
So there is a cast behind them. They're not just generated from
a computer by themselves, right.So there's a cast, there's a
crew behind, there's a, there's a actor behind the specific
actor, right? So we every actors, every
character in the film is dialogue is spoken by an actor,
(11:04):
was recorded and by an actor andthe script was written by
myself. And so none of that was AI
generated and then the characters were telling the
historical event. So we know what some of these
people look like. So we the story is about the
(11:26):
Lewis Le Clark expedition. And so we have portraits of what
Lewis and Clark look like. Of course, it was paintings done
from that era. And what we did was we took
those paintings and we made a modern version of those people.
(11:47):
And we're using AI software. So, for example, Captain Clark
is a redhead, and he had apparently was a Carrot Top
redhead, not just a redhead. And so everybody talks about him
being a redhead because the Native Americans had never seen
(12:09):
a redheaded person. So this was very unusual.
And so we made a redheaded character in AI that looked
somewhat like the Clark character in the painting.
(12:29):
Nice. So I don't know if that answers
your question. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry, I was just looking at some.
So, so when it comes to the technology that was used,
because that's the other big question.
So you didn't really film with cameras.
So you did a movie, but you didn't use cameras, right?
You used just computers, but I'msure you recorded the audio
(12:51):
because you needed the audio. What other, what are their
specific details? Like what did you use to create
that movie? Because I'm sure you know, in
the, in the traditional mindset,we need cameras.
We need cameras. Put the actors in front of them,
have a director behind the camera, and then we create the
movie. What's the setup with an AI
movie? I think what this new
(13:15):
technology, AI video generating,that's what we're, that's the
sub category that we're in AI video generating.
So the AI technology is is able to generate visual components,
whether it's a character or it'san image or it's a video.
(13:37):
And at the state-of-the-art at this time in end of 2025, really
the best it could do is 5 to 10 seconds of video.
So we're talking about very tinylittle pieces of video.
But at that time, when I startedEpisode 1, you couldn't even
generate 5 seconds of video. You had to go in there and make
(14:03):
a still image move. And we used one way to, we had a
still image, we had generated still images.
And then we used a piece of software at that time called One
Way, which allowed you to use what they call a brush, a
paintbrush. So you paint the you paint the
(14:25):
ocean or the river and you say we want the waves to go left to
right. And then you paint the clouds
and you, we say you want the clouds to go right to left, or
you want the sun to come up and then or you want the sun to come
down. So it's really a special effects
tool. Nice.
(14:45):
It's really, you have to think special effect.
That's what it it. We have a long tradition of
using special effects. If you look at Superman or
Avatar, you know, Avatar has gotthese Big Blue characters and
that and you know, someone like Sojona Weaver is playing a
(15:12):
teenage girl. So what they're doing is motion
capture and the rest of that is all done in the computer.
The whole film is done in the computer.
Nothing, none of those sets really exist.
I mean, they exist the water, they have water tanks where they
can record the motion capture inthe water, but the characters
(15:34):
don't really. The blue characters are
something that's made in the computer.
So I think that we have we're getting closer to the style of
filmmaking which which would it's going to be its own style
of filmmaking. AI video generation is its own
(15:55):
unique style of filmmaking whereyou give it an image and you
tell it, I want this image to move and this is how I want it
to move. Nice.
OK, so it's more of a creative work because anything you would
do that, but you get the video and you try to fix it.
(16:17):
Here you actually think of the movie.
You have to make it, right? That's really the concept.
Create, you know where you want the camera and what kind of
lighting you want and what kind of movement you want and what is
the action of the scene and whatis the look and feel, the color
palette. So all of that has to be
prompted along with the image. So you're actually telling the
(16:42):
AI this is you're directing a scene in the AI software.
So it's more like animation, closer to animation and special
effects than it is traditional filmmaking.
Although the cat the scenes could come out looking like
they're real people because theyhave a they have a genre where
(17:08):
they can give you hyper photo realistic moments or characters.
So you have the choice. You can make an animated film
where the characters look like more like traditional animation,
or you can make a hyper photo realistic moments or the seconds
(17:29):
with telling it. That's what the way the style I
want. Wow.
It's amazing, so creative now. How is it?
Was it 'cause this is a new concept, right?
It's something new. You don't see a lot of movies
out there that are fully AI besides.
They're not. Yeah, people haven't made
movies. They make 10 minute movies,
maybe the most. I we were the first to make a
(17:51):
entire film and then we were thefirst now to make a series.
So nobody's done it because I had the scripts, I had done the
research, so I had it was prepared.
So my question is, because I know how finance is in this
world, especially when you have something so new, so, so, so
(18:11):
brand new with as a technology, how was it easy to to approach
people for funding? Because it's hard for a regular
normal movie because that that's, that's where everybody
stops. And usually a lot of projects
don't don't happen. In your case, I think, I don't
(18:31):
know, you can tell me. I think it would be a little bit
harder. So, you know, the people put AI
all together in one basket and AI is what it is.
It's our machine learning and you're teaching the machine
(18:52):
anywhere from detecting cancer to making video.
There was a dozens of different applications for AI.
We are just talking about AI video generation.
We're not talking about, you know, early detection of cancer.
(19:12):
So AI is of of a very specific kind of filmmaking.
Now what what is what, what's ofinterest to why why is companies
like Disney putting up a billiondollars for AI is because the
(19:33):
money that can be saved making AI.
You don't have to raise the kindof money to go on location and
you don't have to raise the kindof money to do costumes and all
kinds of, you know, set design you don't have it's and the
(19:58):
special effects can be done in AI, although we work with
animators to, you know, do elements that can't be done in
the computer. So, so there's a lot of interest
by people in the finance business who come up with
projects or in our case we have a series that we can deliver.
(20:23):
For a fraction of the cost that it costs to go out and make a
series nowadays, if you would look on any of the streaming
networks, they have spending 10sof millions of dollars to make
these series so we could delivera series for.
A fraction of that. You know, fraction of that.
(20:47):
What are what are some hurdles on the finance?
Like what? What's where did you guys
struggle when it comes to finance?
So if somebody want to do a movie like that today, what
would you advise them to do in order to get?
Fun. You know, I am.
I am. Of course, I come from the
independent film community. I am always proponent of doing
(21:09):
it on your own and then getting the interest after you've
produced a demo or physical real.
You have to show people what it is that you have in mind.
You cannot just send it. I don't believe in sending
scripts and asking for money. My experience has told me that
most financial entities want to see a product 1st and then they
(21:35):
at least a proof of concept. It's not the first episode.
That's why I produced the first episode on my own nickel,
because I believe that that is what the marketplace requires.
And there's a lot of interest now in AI and what is AI.
But most people have not done the deep dives that we took into
(21:56):
investigating all the AI tools and the various uses and case
uses of these various tools because there's a number of
tools out there. Each of one has which one has a
specialty and each tool keep iterating.
So they're all in competition with each other who's going to
make the best AI video generation tool.
(22:19):
And some of them fail and some of them let go of actually good
products and applications that are no longer available.
So you have to keep up with all of the tools all the time.
So you have to take the, you have to be willing to spend the
time on the learning curves and learn the technology.
And I am a big proponent of learning the technology because
(22:42):
I went from learning theater, which was a traditional
classical way of conceptualizinga product, executing on a
product in the theater. And then I went into television
and I learned all the technologyof television.
And then I went into games and learned, went back to school and
(23:04):
studied game technology and I did the same here with the AI
technology. You have to be willing to speak
that language. You're not going to speak the
language of traditional film andAI video generated film.
So with that being said, you need to spend the time educating
(23:24):
people. People don't necessarily know
what that when you use the expression AI video generated,
they don't know what you mean. They think, oh, it's it's you're
using a virtual actor or it means that you're using virtual
voices. They don't lump everything
together. So there's a big learning curve
to teach your audience, to teachyour investors what exactly you
(23:49):
are doing because you can. People are just making up heavy
AIS, write script and AI have the voices and they're all
derivative. They all look alike.
They all feel the same because they are the same.
Right, right. There's no story behind, there's
no no creative. There's no person, there's no,
you know, spark of interest thattakes a human being to spend
(24:13):
years, did research and develop a script.
This is not something that happens overnight, right?
Right. So you have to really, you have
to develop the script and then you have to convince people that
your methodology for making the film is legitimate and is worthy
(24:36):
of their investment. Now, you know, there are
different kinds of investment. I mean, we got investment of
talent who wanted to work on this because it was so unique.
And so an extra neat opportunityto not just do AI, but to do a
story that takes place in the early 1800s about Native
(24:57):
Americans and tell his the modern take on history.
And so people were very excited to work on it from the native
point of view. And so we had wonderful Native
American and actors and musicians and then we had people
from, you know, traditional theater and television working
(25:17):
on it. So that that and then we had the
AI technology companies interested in what we were
doing. So they contributed their
software. So there were a lot of in kind
contributions. So if you can convince people on
your team that they get very excited by what you're doing,
then you will get a lot of in kind support that is worth
(25:42):
money. You don't have to go out and
raise the money, right, Right. So it sounds sounds like a
traditional movie, just you haveto think a little bit
differently. You have to know that you have
to know what you're working with, you know, to pitch it
because for example, if you do aregular movie, you wouldn't
think to go to a technology company, right?
It depends on the story, of course.
Nice, that's very good. I mean, good insight for, I
(26:04):
mean, we've got so much information right now from you.
It's just amazing. So what the, what does the
future hold for you guys? I mean, I've seen right now
you're working on episode 2 and three and what, what are the
future plans? What is the next They can five
years look like for you, for your side, for this project?
I don't think I don't have a five year plan, but I maybe have
a year or two plan. But because we don't know what's
(26:26):
going to happen with this technology, but it's very it's
moving very fast. And what we're trying to do is
get there before it gets taken over by the Disneys and the Lion
aides. I mean, they're going to start
hoarding the technology so that the independent filmmaker can't
get access to it. I think because they're the
(26:49):
studios are very interested in it because it's going to save
them millions, hundreds of millions of dollars.
And so it's a genre filmmaking that it's not going to replace
traditional actors. It's simply going to be another
genre of filmmaking. That's what I believe.
And with this new set of tools that has come out in the last
(27:11):
year, we're very excited by whatCling and Sora and Dio can
generate, which we were not ableto get in episode 1, where we
can generate 5 second or ten second being and get it, get the
look and feel that we. And so we wanted you to believe
that these are real people, not animated characters.
(27:34):
So that's what we're looking for, the genre where AI can
generate characters that look like they were filmed rather
than animated, even though it isin the end of the day,
animation. See, the word animation implies
that you're using a tool to drawthe character and render the
(27:58):
character. Here the the software is
rendering the scene. Right, right now.
Perfect. So yeah, that would be actually
answered. My second question would be what
were they new, let's say new filmmaker that wants to start
right now. Do you think he should get into
AI movie? He should just stick with the
old traditional or our combination of both?
(28:19):
Maybe, but I think you covered it saying that, you know,
technology changing, they shouldrush it a little bit right now
before it before it finalizes towhat it is believe still,
because even today the big studios have a big chunk of the
market, but independent film makers have their market they
they can get into it is hard, but you can do it.
So I think this is well. You know, there's a there's a
(28:40):
lot of misconceptions about whatAI is and what an AI film is.
So you're always fighting the misconceptions.
And so you have to prepare for that and be have a way to
explain what you're doing and prove it.
And we don't really know what the studios have in mind, but I
(29:02):
know that Disney and Paramount and Netflix, they're all
adopting AI software to use in various iterations of their
business, whether it's going to be for AI video generation or
marketing. We don't really.
No, they're not. Disney is claiming always just
(29:23):
for marketing. I don't know.
They're not going to put $1,000,000 billion dollars just
into marketing. I mean, you never know, but AI
is everywhere right now, like every industry, it's being
implemented. So I mean, they might use it for
for marketing too. But I think yeah, but.
That's what Disney is saying. I you know, I am not.
My philosophy has always been that if you want to get your
(29:47):
story told, you have to be a pioneer in a field because you
have to do it before the gatekeepers get to crawl.
And that and that's the way you,if you're willing to take the
deep dive into the learning the technology, you can get
something out there before the the studios control it.
(30:08):
That's what we did with my game and that's what we're doing with
AI. It's my particular take on how
to do an independent film production.
Yeah. So one of the last question
before we wrap it up because I saw because we talked a lot
about film, but as you said, youdo other things than just feel
like a chat box for example, butthat's integrated on on this
(30:31):
project I would say, right. So what other things we have
that is not only strictly on thefilm side of it?
So we decided I teach at a university in New York and New
York is to the technology and they were very interested in
investigators, professors investigating AI, leveraging AI
in education. And because we had this film
(30:54):
that was based on American history and and was told from a
unique point of view, we believed that we could create
CAT5, that visual cat bots that actually talk to you from the
character's point of view, and that we could use this both as a
marketing tool and as an educational tool.
(31:15):
So we got a grant from the university and a team of interns
to investigate creating cat botsand we tested them in schools
and museums and libraries. And we now have a set of 6
characters from the film that ifyou are interested in knowing
anything about these people's lives, what happened to them or
(31:39):
what happened before or after orduring.
So it's a way of engaging yourself with the material in an
interactive way. And so we've gotten a lot of
really interested in that. And then this company did was
very interested in helping us get into the Ed tech field,
which is what chat bots can serve as both as marketing and
(32:02):
as a Ed tech solution. So we, they gave us unlimited
credits to use their technology.So we combine the university
with the technology firm and a team of interns to create the
chat box and you can see them onour website and ask them any
question you want. And people like that engagement
(32:23):
because people are always curious or what happened to you
or why did you let your husband mistreat you or any questions
you want. So we control the knowledge
base. The technology behind a chat bot
is either you let it find anything off the Internet or you
control it. And we decided we wanted to
(32:45):
control the knowledge base. So we gave it our own knowledge
base of controlled knowledge that it would answer your
questions. So that I guess that their
quality, because you never know if it's.
If it randomly finds informationfrom anywhere, you can't really
control the quality. Right.
So you want to control the knowledge base, right.
And you know the, some of the actors were very excited by what
(33:09):
we were doing and wanted to giveus their voice.
And so the voice of the character in the film is the
voice of the chatbot. So, umm, we decided that this
would be a great marketing tool for engagement.
And the same technology where you feed the image of the
character and you feed it a voice and it comes out answering
(33:31):
the questions. Wow, anybody can ask?
Well, great. I think, I think our viewers
would be happy with what they saw today because we talked
about AI and we talked about movies and talk about finance
and talk a little bit about technology at the end.
And I don't know if you wanna with your new project, is there
anything you you would want our viewers to help or because we
(33:53):
have, you know, creative people that are part of this community
that we're building in our site.So if you need anything, we're
gonna have all your information on the show.
So it's gonna have your website so people can go and visit right
and see well. I suggest, you know, we, we are
now we're being contributed by her flicks and you can watch the
(34:14):
film for free there. We're also on Amazon in New
Zealand and Australia and Canadawhere you can buy it or rent it.
And then we're here in our states on Zumo.
So but we just formed a relationship with her Flicks
where you can watch it for free.And so I suggest people visit
(34:36):
her Flicks and see our film and see the trailer for the upcoming
series there. And you could go to our website
to visit a chat box and ask themany question you want.
So what we're doing right now iswe're looking for partners who
want to work with us on episode 2 and three.
And by partner, I mean financialpartners or technology partners
(35:02):
or you know, actors that may be be able to bring some value
proposition to the project. So we're streaming platforms,
those are the people that we're looking for partnership or
finance people who might be veryinterested in a low end solution
(35:23):
to developing a streaming series.
So we also see that we can make this into a game.
We had originally we had decidedwe wanted to do another game and
we wanted to do this as a game. We didn't or in a graphic novel.
But we never really pursued those two venues actively.
(35:43):
But certainly we've seen the Americans product, the product,
collection of products and collection of stories that can
be told worldwide. Nice, nice sounds, sounds very
well. And then I'm sure a lot of our
viewers will be excited to even either help or view your work.
(36:05):
OK. All right.
Got everything wrapped up here and then we'll we're going to
we're going to do whatever we can our site to to help out I I
like helping companies that are doing something new and then.
Well, that would be great if youcould help us find financial or
technology companies so that youknow, the techno the animation
(36:26):
houses, some some animation. We've been working with the
animation house, but we feel that there are plenty of special
effects animation houses that might be interested in working
with our AI technology. So AI can't do everything.
So if you have a special theme that you want, you have to come
in with an animation house and do it.
(36:49):
Yeah, it's all about collaboration in this field.
Yeah, or not. It has to be collaboration.
Filmmaking is a collaborative medium, right, Right, right.
You can't do it by yourselves too much.
OK? It was amazing talking to you.
Thanks for your time. Thanks for joining us on Film,
Tech and Finance. Don't forget to follow and
subscribe for more insights and updates.
Welcome to Film Tech and Finance, where we explore the
cutting edge technology and financial strategies driving the
film industry today. Where the art of the script
meets the logic of the Ledger. This is film, tech and finance.
Our guest today is the powerhouse of the intersection
of creativity and commerce. She is an Emmy Award-winning
filmmaker, a WGA nominee, and a true pioneer in multimedia
(00:23):
storytelling. As the founder and CEO of
American Productions, she spent her career proving that great
stories and great technology belong together.
Please welcome Lynn Rogoff well.Thank you for having me here.
I'm very excited. Thanks.
Thanks for being with us. So I have so many questions
today, so many questions. I've seen your, I did a little
(00:44):
research and I saw what you've done and it's just amazing.
And we're going to ask you aboutyour, you know, your, your work
and everything. So, so, so interesting right now
and so up to date with AI. But tell us a little bit about
yourself. Tell us a bit about your work
and your background and and you know how all this became part of
your journey. I got my MFA at NYU, School of
(01:10):
the Arts and Directing, and thenI moved into children's
television. I did Sesame Street, Big Blue
Marble, and then I had an opportunity to do a public
television PBS special on tap dancing and it was shown on
(01:31):
public television on Bravo, on Turner Broadcasting Now and
Canopy. It's become a classic and we
were the first to introduce black tap dancing that had been
dormant for decades. So it generated a whole new life
(01:55):
for the tap dancers and for tap dancing.
And then I moved on to do another film project which what
we ended up winning a grant fromWriters Guild to do a original
screenplay. And I found these wonderful love
(02:17):
letters and decided to make it. I turn it first into a
screenplay and then in it to a play.
And it was produced as a play. And then I moved on and we moved
into the game business and we did a game called Pony Express
Rider with for McGraw Hill. We launched their new division
(02:41):
called McGraw Hill Home Interactive, and so they put
1,000,005 into the game in the 90s.
And my company, which is called Americans Productions, was found
on the principle that we were going to traumatize American
(03:03):
history, American culture about young people who had done heroic
deeds when they were young. And so Pony breast riders were
young people. And then Pakajawiya was another
young person who had contributedto American history when she was
(03:23):
young. So we, I then decided after the
game Pony Express riders to investigate Pakajawiya.
And we just went to the visit with the Native Americans in
North Dakota during the Lewis and Clark bicentennial, which
(03:45):
was in two O 3 to two O 6. And at that time there was no
AI. There was no either you were
able to raise millions of dollars to do a period or that
was there. You just put it back in the
archives. So we got some interest, but we
(04:08):
couldn't raise the money. So we, I put it in the archives
and that's how I in between I did a lot of other projects, but
in general, that's how I got to where I got interested in
Sacagawea. And we, I had done all this
research, decades of research, and then when audio drama had
(04:33):
come into its own as a podcast genre, I said, well, I'll take
the screenplay and I'll make it into a series for audio.
And during COVID, I worked with a number of actors and we
recorded the audio for remotely during COVID.
(04:57):
And everybody was really grateful to have work during
COVID. And so we edited the whole thing
remotely and we, the composer worked remotely and the
musicians worked remotely. And so we, we edited the whole
entire audio drama series and itwas on Spotify and various other
(05:25):
platforms. And then we decided, I decided
because I was in the film business, that I really miss the
visual component. At that time, podcasts were not
really doing video, they were just doing audio.
And this was in 2019-2020. So I decided to investigate what
(05:51):
was then a new fledgling area called AI.
And so we decided to make AAI version of the film based on the
audio drama. So we work backwards.
We had the we had the scripts, Ihad the musicians, I had the
(06:13):
actors, I had the editors and the finished product.
And now we went back and made a film based on that audio.
So it was an unusual pathway. Right, Yeah, yeah, 'cause
usually we go for film 1st and then then we add the audio.
But it's interesting. It's interesting to find out.
(06:35):
Yeah. And then podcast right now, I
mean, it's more about video, right?
It's yeah. You know, at that time it
wasn't, there was no video support, very little, you know,
support for video. But now you can't you you have
to have video with your podcast pretty much to get an audience.
So I have a question for you. So why, why did you pick the
(06:58):
route of AI? And you, you told us a little
bit about it, but why didn't youthink of doing a traditional
movie like without AI, just withactors and just filming?
And do you think it was easier? It was harder.
It was you just want to well. Again, you know, yeah, you have
to raise millions of dollars to do a traditional modern story,
(07:18):
but then to do periods because this story takes place in the
wilderness of 18, early 1800s, of course, the whole continent
of America. And so there was no way that I
could raise that kind of money as an independent filmmaker.
(07:39):
And, you know, at that time there wasn't really that much
interested in female protagonists there and there
wasn't that much interested in Native American women as a
protagonist. So this was my interest and the
people that were working on the project really loved it and
(08:02):
really wanted to tell the story.So we told it in the way that we
could, you know, we, we could doit with AI tools.
And then when I discovered a tool called VID, we were able to
work with the technology companyup there were overseas company
(08:23):
and they supported what we were doing.
So there was a lot of positive support for what we did.
It just was one of these projects that people love to
work on. Nice.
So since you finished the first series, the first part, what was
(08:46):
the reaction of the people, 'cause right now there's a lot
of misinformation. I would say a lot of people are
afraid of AI. How did the people, the
creators, I understand they embraced it, as you said, and
they helped you, but how did thepeople react to that?
So if when you went to some festival do you went to
festivals and you got some awards, how was the audience
accepting this as AI? No, we got Wells Film Festival
(09:10):
Awards and so the people at the film festivals loved it and
'cause it was so unique and novel because of what we did was
we took a story from the 1800s and we made it into a modern
look and feel kind of story thatit looked the characters look
(09:31):
like they're 21st century characters, people.
They don't look like, oh, you know, with some people from 200
years ago. So that was made it engaging.
That's the way we told the storywhere we talk directly to the
audience was very much in the genre of game technology where
(09:56):
you, you break the 4th wall and you're, you're the characters
talk directly to the audience. So we had to do it it that way.
In order to get the technology to work, in order to have the
characters speak direct, move the faces, move the characters,
say the dialogue that we're importing, it had to have the
(10:20):
face directly to the camera. So it ended up being, you know,
taking something that was an obscure technology and making it
work for modern filmmaking. Nice.
So that's, that was my other question.
That's more of a technical question.
So you actually have a real character be behind every
(10:40):
animated character technically, right.
So there is a cast behind them. They're not just generated from
a computer by themselves, right.So there's a cast, there's a
crew behind, there's a, there's a actor behind the specific
actor, right? So we every actors, every
character in the film is dialogue is spoken by an actor,
(11:04):
was recorded and by an actor andthe script was written by
myself. And so none of that was AI
generated and then the characters were telling the
historical event. So we know what some of these
people look like. So we the story is about the
(11:26):
Lewis Le Clark expedition. And so we have portraits of what
Lewis and Clark look like. Of course, it was paintings done
from that era. And what we did was we took
those paintings and we made a modern version of those people.
(11:47):
And we're using AI software. So, for example, Captain Clark
is a redhead, and he had apparently was a Carrot Top
redhead, not just a redhead. And so everybody talks about him
being a redhead because the Native Americans had never seen
(12:09):
a redheaded person. So this was very unusual.
And so we made a redheaded character in AI that looked
somewhat like the Clark character in the painting.
(12:29):
Nice. So I don't know if that answers
your question. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry, I was just looking at some.
So, so when it comes to the technology that was used,
because that's the other big question.
So you didn't really film with cameras.
So you did a movie, but you didn't use cameras, right?
You used just computers, but I'msure you recorded the audio
(12:51):
because you needed the audio. What other, what are their
specific details? Like what did you use to create
that movie? Because I'm sure you know, in
the, in the traditional mindset,we need cameras.
We need cameras. Put the actors in front of them,
have a director behind the camera, and then we create the
movie. What's the setup with an AI
movie? I think what this new
(13:15):
technology, AI video generating,that's what we're, that's the
sub category that we're in AI video generating.
So the AI technology is is able to generate visual components,
whether it's a character or it'san image or it's a video.
(13:37):
And at the state-of-the-art at this time in end of 2025, really
the best it could do is 5 to 10 seconds of video.
So we're talking about very tinylittle pieces of video.
But at that time, when I startedEpisode 1, you couldn't even
generate 5 seconds of video. You had to go in there and make
(14:03):
a still image move. And we used one way to, we had a
still image, we had generated still images.
And then we used a piece of software at that time called One
Way, which allowed you to use what they call a brush, a
paintbrush. So you paint the you paint the
(14:25):
ocean or the river and you say we want the waves to go left to
right. And then you paint the clouds
and you, we say you want the clouds to go right to left, or
you want the sun to come up and then or you want the sun to come
down. So it's really a special effects
tool. Nice.
(14:45):
It's really, you have to think special effect.
That's what it it. We have a long tradition of
using special effects. If you look at Superman or
Avatar, you know, Avatar has gotthese Big Blue characters and
that and you know, someone like Sojona Weaver is playing a
(15:12):
teenage girl. So what they're doing is motion
capture and the rest of that is all done in the computer.
The whole film is done in the computer.
Nothing, none of those sets really exist.
I mean, they exist the water, they have water tanks where they
can record the motion capture inthe water, but the characters
(15:34):
don't really. The blue characters are
something that's made in the computer.
So I think that we have we're getting closer to the style of
filmmaking which which would it's going to be its own style
of filmmaking. AI video generation is its own
(15:55):
unique style of filmmaking whereyou give it an image and you
tell it, I want this image to move and this is how I want it
to move. Nice.
OK, so it's more of a creative work because anything you would
do that, but you get the video and you try to fix it.
(16:17):
Here you actually think of the movie.
You have to make it, right? That's really the concept.
Create, you know where you want the camera and what kind of
lighting you want and what kind of movement you want and what is
the action of the scene and whatis the look and feel, the color
palette. So all of that has to be
prompted along with the image. So you're actually telling the
(16:42):
AI this is you're directing a scene in the AI software.
So it's more like animation, closer to animation and special
effects than it is traditional filmmaking.
Although the cat the scenes could come out looking like
they're real people because theyhave a they have a genre where
(17:08):
they can give you hyper photo realistic moments or characters.
So you have the choice. You can make an animated film
where the characters look like more like traditional animation,
or you can make a hyper photo realistic moments or the seconds
(17:29):
with telling it. That's what the way the style I
want. Wow.
It's amazing, so creative now. How is it?
Was it 'cause this is a new concept, right?
It's something new. You don't see a lot of movies
out there that are fully AI besides.
They're not. Yeah, people haven't made
movies. They make 10 minute movies,
maybe the most. I we were the first to make a
(17:51):
entire film and then we were thefirst now to make a series.
So nobody's done it because I had the scripts, I had done the
research, so I had it was prepared.
So my question is, because I know how finance is in this
world, especially when you have something so new, so, so, so
(18:11):
brand new with as a technology, how was it easy to to approach
people for funding? Because it's hard for a regular
normal movie because that that's, that's where everybody
stops. And usually a lot of projects
don't don't happen. In your case, I think, I don't
(18:31):
know, you can tell me. I think it would be a little bit
harder. So, you know, the people put AI
all together in one basket and AI is what it is.
It's our machine learning and you're teaching the machine
(18:52):
anywhere from detecting cancer to making video.
There was a dozens of different applications for AI.
We are just talking about AI video generation.
We're not talking about, you know, early detection of cancer.
(19:12):
So AI is of of a very specific kind of filmmaking.
Now what what is what, what's ofinterest to why why is companies
like Disney putting up a billiondollars for AI is because the
(19:33):
money that can be saved making AI.
You don't have to raise the kindof money to go on location and
you don't have to raise the kindof money to do costumes and all
kinds of, you know, set design you don't have it's and the
(19:58):
special effects can be done in AI, although we work with
animators to, you know, do elements that can't be done in
the computer. So, so there's a lot of interest
by people in the finance business who come up with
projects or in our case we have a series that we can deliver.
(20:23):
For a fraction of the cost that it costs to go out and make a
series nowadays, if you would look on any of the streaming
networks, they have spending 10sof millions of dollars to make
these series so we could delivera series for.
A fraction of that. You know, fraction of that.
(20:47):
What are what are some hurdles on the finance?
Like what? What's where did you guys
struggle when it comes to finance?
So if somebody want to do a movie like that today, what
would you advise them to do in order to get?
Fun. You know, I am.
I am. Of course, I come from the
independent film community. I am always proponent of doing
(21:09):
it on your own and then getting the interest after you've
produced a demo or physical real.
You have to show people what it is that you have in mind.
You cannot just send it. I don't believe in sending
scripts and asking for money. My experience has told me that
most financial entities want to see a product 1st and then they
(21:35):
at least a proof of concept. It's not the first episode.
That's why I produced the first episode on my own nickel,
because I believe that that is what the marketplace requires.
And there's a lot of interest now in AI and what is AI.
But most people have not done the deep dives that we took into
(21:56):
investigating all the AI tools and the various uses and case
uses of these various tools because there's a number of
tools out there. Each of one has which one has a
specialty and each tool keep iterating.
So they're all in competition with each other who's going to
make the best AI video generation tool.
(22:19):
And some of them fail and some of them let go of actually good
products and applications that are no longer available.
So you have to keep up with all of the tools all the time.
So you have to take the, you have to be willing to spend the
time on the learning curves and learn the technology.
And I am a big proponent of learning the technology because
(22:42):
I went from learning theater, which was a traditional
classical way of conceptualizinga product, executing on a
product in the theater. And then I went into television
and I learned all the technologyof television.
And then I went into games and learned, went back to school and
(23:04):
studied game technology and I did the same here with the AI
technology. You have to be willing to speak
that language. You're not going to speak the
language of traditional film andAI video generated film.
So with that being said, you need to spend the time educating
(23:24):
people. People don't necessarily know
what that when you use the expression AI video generated,
they don't know what you mean. They think, oh, it's it's you're
using a virtual actor or it means that you're using virtual
voices. They don't lump everything
together. So there's a big learning curve
to teach your audience, to teachyour investors what exactly you
(23:49):
are doing because you can. People are just making up heavy
AIS, write script and AI have the voices and they're all
derivative. They all look alike.
They all feel the same because they are the same.
Right, right. There's no story behind, there's
no no creative. There's no person, there's no,
you know, spark of interest thattakes a human being to spend
(24:13):
years, did research and develop a script.
This is not something that happens overnight, right?
Right. So you have to really, you have
to develop the script and then you have to convince people that
your methodology for making the film is legitimate and is worthy
(24:36):
of their investment. Now, you know, there are
different kinds of investment. I mean, we got investment of
talent who wanted to work on this because it was so unique.
And so an extra neat opportunityto not just do AI, but to do a
story that takes place in the early 1800s about Native
(24:57):
Americans and tell his the modern take on history.
And so people were very excited to work on it from the native
point of view. And so we had wonderful Native
American and actors and musicians and then we had people
from, you know, traditional theater and television working
(25:17):
on it. So that that and then we had the
AI technology companies interested in what we were
doing. So they contributed their
software. So there were a lot of in kind
contributions. So if you can convince people on
your team that they get very excited by what you're doing,
then you will get a lot of in kind support that is worth
(25:42):
money. You don't have to go out and
raise the money, right, Right. So it sounds sounds like a
traditional movie, just you haveto think a little bit
differently. You have to know that you have
to know what you're working with, you know, to pitch it
because for example, if you do aregular movie, you wouldn't
think to go to a technology company, right?
It depends on the story, of course.
Nice, that's very good. I mean, good insight for, I
(26:04):
mean, we've got so much information right now from you.
It's just amazing. So what the, what does the
future hold for you guys? I mean, I've seen right now
you're working on episode 2 and three and what, what are the
future plans? What is the next They can five
years look like for you, for your side, for this project?
I don't think I don't have a five year plan, but I maybe have
a year or two plan. But because we don't know what's
(26:26):
going to happen with this technology, but it's very it's
moving very fast. And what we're trying to do is
get there before it gets taken over by the Disneys and the Lion
aides. I mean, they're going to start
hoarding the technology so that the independent filmmaker can't
get access to it. I think because they're the
(26:49):
studios are very interested in it because it's going to save
them millions, hundreds of millions of dollars.
And so it's a genre filmmaking that it's not going to replace
traditional actors. It's simply going to be another
genre of filmmaking. That's what I believe.
And with this new set of tools that has come out in the last
(27:11):
year, we're very excited by whatCling and Sora and Dio can
generate, which we were not ableto get in episode 1, where we
can generate 5 second or ten second being and get it, get the
look and feel that we. And so we wanted you to believe
that these are real people, not animated characters.
(27:34):
So that's what we're looking for, the genre where AI can
generate characters that look like they were filmed rather
than animated, even though it isin the end of the day,
animation. See, the word animation implies
that you're using a tool to drawthe character and render the
(27:58):
character. Here the the software is
rendering the scene. Right, right now.
Perfect. So yeah, that would be actually
answered. My second question would be what
were they new, let's say new filmmaker that wants to start
right now. Do you think he should get into
AI movie? He should just stick with the
old traditional or our combination of both?
(28:19):
Maybe, but I think you covered it saying that, you know,
technology changing, they shouldrush it a little bit right now
before it before it finalizes towhat it is believe still,
because even today the big studios have a big chunk of the
market, but independent film makers have their market they
they can get into it is hard, but you can do it.
So I think this is well. You know, there's a there's a
(28:40):
lot of misconceptions about whatAI is and what an AI film is.
So you're always fighting the misconceptions.
And so you have to prepare for that and be have a way to
explain what you're doing and prove it.
And we don't really know what the studios have in mind, but I
(29:02):
know that Disney and Paramount and Netflix, they're all
adopting AI software to use in various iterations of their
business, whether it's going to be for AI video generation or
marketing. We don't really.
No, they're not. Disney is claiming always just
(29:23):
for marketing. I don't know.
They're not going to put $1,000,000 billion dollars just
into marketing. I mean, you never know, but AI
is everywhere right now, like every industry, it's being
implemented. So I mean, they might use it for
for marketing too. But I think yeah, but.
That's what Disney is saying. I you know, I am not.
My philosophy has always been that if you want to get your
(29:47):
story told, you have to be a pioneer in a field because you
have to do it before the gatekeepers get to crawl.
And that and that's the way you,if you're willing to take the
deep dive into the learning the technology, you can get
something out there before the the studios control it.
(30:08):
That's what we did with my game and that's what we're doing with
AI. It's my particular take on how
to do an independent film production.
Yeah. So one of the last question
before we wrap it up because I saw because we talked a lot
about film, but as you said, youdo other things than just feel
like a chat box for example, butthat's integrated on on this
(30:31):
project I would say, right. So what other things we have
that is not only strictly on thefilm side of it?
So we decided I teach at a university in New York and New
York is to the technology and they were very interested in
investigators, professors investigating AI, leveraging AI
in education. And because we had this film
(30:54):
that was based on American history and and was told from a
unique point of view, we believed that we could create
CAT5, that visual cat bots that actually talk to you from the
character's point of view, and that we could use this both as a
marketing tool and as an educational tool.
(31:15):
So we got a grant from the university and a team of interns
to investigate creating cat botsand we tested them in schools
and museums and libraries. And we now have a set of 6
characters from the film that ifyou are interested in knowing
anything about these people's lives, what happened to them or
(31:39):
what happened before or after orduring.
So it's a way of engaging yourself with the material in an
interactive way. And so we've gotten a lot of
really interested in that. And then this company did was
very interested in helping us get into the Ed tech field,
which is what chat bots can serve as both as marketing and
(32:02):
as a Ed tech solution. So we, they gave us unlimited
credits to use their technology.So we combine the university
with the technology firm and a team of interns to create the
chat box and you can see them onour website and ask them any
question you want. And people like that engagement
(32:23):
because people are always curious or what happened to you
or why did you let your husband mistreat you or any questions
you want. So we control the knowledge
base. The technology behind a chat bot
is either you let it find anything off the Internet or you
control it. And we decided we wanted to
(32:45):
control the knowledge base. So we gave it our own knowledge
base of controlled knowledge that it would answer your
questions. So that I guess that their
quality, because you never know if it's.
If it randomly finds informationfrom anywhere, you can't really
control the quality. Right.
So you want to control the knowledge base, right.
And you know the, some of the actors were very excited by what
(33:09):
we were doing and wanted to giveus their voice.
And so the voice of the character in the film is the
voice of the chatbot. So, umm, we decided that this
would be a great marketing tool for engagement.
And the same technology where you feed the image of the
character and you feed it a voice and it comes out answering
(33:31):
the questions. Wow, anybody can ask?
Well, great. I think, I think our viewers
would be happy with what they saw today because we talked
about AI and we talked about movies and talk about finance
and talk a little bit about technology at the end.
And I don't know if you wanna with your new project, is there
anything you you would want our viewers to help or because we
(33:53):
have, you know, creative people that are part of this community
that we're building in our site.So if you need anything, we're
gonna have all your information on the show.
So it's gonna have your website so people can go and visit right
and see well. I suggest, you know, we, we are
now we're being contributed by her flicks and you can watch the
(34:14):
film for free there. We're also on Amazon in New
Zealand and Australia and Canadawhere you can buy it or rent it.
And then we're here in our states on Zumo.
So but we just formed a relationship with her Flicks
where you can watch it for free.And so I suggest people visit
(34:36):
her Flicks and see our film and see the trailer for the upcoming
series there. And you could go to our website
to visit a chat box and ask themany question you want.
So what we're doing right now iswe're looking for partners who
want to work with us on episode 2 and three.
And by partner, I mean financialpartners or technology partners
(35:02):
or you know, actors that may be be able to bring some value
proposition to the project. So we're streaming platforms,
those are the people that we're looking for partnership or
finance people who might be veryinterested in a low end solution
(35:23):
to developing a streaming series.
So we also see that we can make this into a game.
We had originally we had decidedwe wanted to do another game and
we wanted to do this as a game. We didn't or in a graphic novel.
But we never really pursued those two venues actively.
(35:43):
But certainly we've seen the Americans product, the product,
collection of products and collection of stories that can
be told worldwide. Nice, nice sounds, sounds very
well. And then I'm sure a lot of our
viewers will be excited to even either help or view your work.
(36:05):
OK. All right.
Got everything wrapped up here and then we'll we're going to
we're going to do whatever we can our site to to help out I I
like helping companies that are doing something new and then.
Well, that would be great if youcould help us find financial or
technology companies so that youknow, the techno the animation
(36:26):
houses, some some animation. We've been working with the
animation house, but we feel that there are plenty of special
effects animation houses that might be interested in working
with our AI technology. So AI can't do everything.
So if you have a special theme that you want, you have to come
in with an animation house and do it.
(36:49):
Yeah, it's all about collaboration in this field.
Yeah, or not. It has to be collaboration.
Filmmaking is a collaborative medium, right, Right, right.
You can't do it by yourselves too much.
OK? It was amazing talking to you.
Thanks for your time. Thanks for joining us on Film,
Tech and Finance. Don't forget to follow and
subscribe for more insights and updates.
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