March 3, 2026 • 42 mins
In the rapidly evolving world of immersive storytelling, technology plays a pivotal role in shaping narratives and engaging audiences. In this episode of Film Tech and Finance, we sit down with Matt Celia, co-founder of LightSail VR and an Emmy Award-winning creative director, to explore the intersection of creativity and technology in 180 and 360-degree storytelling.
The Genesis of LightSail VR: Matt shares the story of how LightSail VR came to be, marking its 10-year anniversary this year. He recalls the pivotal moment when he first experienced virtual reality through Google Cardboard, where he felt fully immersed in a narrative while watching "Walking New York". This experience sparked his passion for blending documentary filmmaking with cutting-edge technology. Matt emphasizes that despite the new medium, traditional storytelling techniques should not be abandoned. He believes that emotional resonance, character development, and conflict are crucial components that must be retained in immersive formats.
Understanding the Technology: As a filmmaker, Matt discusses the challenges filmmakers face with new technology. Initially, many creators were using GoPros in 3D printed rigs to capture panoramic footage, which often resulted in technical issues like parallax. However, LightSail took a different approach by using a 10-camera rig that prioritizes the horizon, ensuring that the action and characters are always in focus. Today, advancements in technology have made immersive filming more accessible. For example, the release of Canon’s RF 5.2 mm dual fisheye lens and Blackmagic's Ursa Cine immersive camera have significantly improved the quality of immersive footage, allowing filmmakers to create high-quality experiences.
Shifting Trends in Immersive Filmmaking: Matt notes a significant change in the industry, with fewer 360-degree projects being produced. Research by Google revealed that a staggering 70% of viewers don’t turn around to see what’s behind them in 360-degree videos. As a result, many creators have transitioned to 180-degree formats, which provide a more focused viewing experience and allow for sharper image quality. This shift caters to traditional narrative structures while still offering an immersive experience.
Editing Immersive Content: The discussion moves to the editing process for immersive content. Matt explains that while traditional editing tools like DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Premiere are commonly used, LightSail has developed custom plugins and workflows to accommodate immersive editing. He highlights the importance of collaborating in real-time, using VR headsets to ensure that the editing team can accurately gauge how audiences will experience the final product. This approach allows them to make informed decisions on cuts and transitions, ensuring a seamless narrative flow.
Conclusion: The future of immersive storytelling is bright, with technology continuously evolving to enhance the viewer experience. As Matt Sillier illustrates, the key lies in balancing innovative technology with traditional storytelling techniques. By embracing new tools and methodologies, filmmakers can create compelling narratives that resonate with audiences on a deeper level.
Key Takeaways: 1. Immersive storytelling requires a blend of technology and traditional narrative techniques. 2. The shift from 360-degree to 180-degree formats addresses viewer engagement challenges. 3. Real-time collaboration in VR enhances the editing process, ensuring a better final product.
Tags: Immersive Storytelling, Virtual Reality, Filmmaking, Technology in Film, 180 Degree Video, 360 Degree Video, LightSail VR, Matt Celia, Film Production, Editing Techniques.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Film Tech and Finance, where we explore the
cutting edge technology and financial strategies driving the
film industry today. Welcome to Film Tech and
Finance, where creativity meets technology and finance.
Today our guest is an Emmy award-winning creative director
and immersive cinema pioneer. He is a Co founder of Light Sail
BR partnering with giants like Apple, Meta and Warner Brothers.
(00:23):
We'll explore his expertise in 180 and 360° storytelling,
blending cinematic artistry withcutting edge technology.
Let's welcome Matt Celia. Hi mate.
Great to be here, thanks for having me.
Yeah, nice, nice to be here. We have, I mean, I have tons of
things to talk about. So let's start about you, your
company, you know, a little bit of background.
(00:44):
Yeah, so I founded Lightsail. It's actually kind of a really
amazing time. It's our 10 year anniversary.
We started this company a decadeago, and really it was because,
you know, back then, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook bought a
company called Oculus for $2 billion.
And when you spend that kind of money, people wake up and they
take a notice, right? Like, that's a big market mover.
(01:06):
And at the time, I was a documentary filmmaker.
My now business partner, Robert Watts was my manager and he
shows up at my door with a phoneand a piece of cardboard.
And he's like, hey, I just saw this and I think you're going to
really love it. And he puts the phone into the
piece of cardboard and we put itup, you know, so easily Google
cardboard things, right? He's like, you know, headsets.
(01:26):
And I watched a piece called Walking New York that was done
from Chris Milk's company Verse at the time.
That's what it's called. And I was blown away.
I was in New York. I was in a helicopter.
I could look all around. I felt like I was totally
immersed in the narrative. And, you know, for me as a
documentary filmmaker, I've always been very attracted to
real people's stories, the authenticity of the world and
(01:49):
the fascination of how humans interact with their space and
how that can be used in storytelling.
And this just, like, lit up likefireworks for me.
So I went to a conference calledVRLA in Los Angeles.
I saw everything there, but everything I saw was devoid of
storytelling. It was just like putting the
(02:09):
camera down and letting the technology do all the work.
And I said, wait a second. Where's the character?
Where's the conflict? Where's that emotional resonance
that we get? Just because this is a new
medium doesn't mean we need to throw out 100 years of
storytelling techniques that we've come to harness.
And I saw that as a real challenge.
(02:30):
I said I think I can bring my real storytelling vibes into
this new technology, and I have something to say as an artist.
And that's proved to be really good for us because we live at
this intersection of story and technology where we work with
creative people. We understand the needs of
creative people at Light Sail, but we also help them navigate
(02:52):
this incredibly strange and often new storytelling language
that we're all inventing about. How do you communicate to
audiences when you're putting them in the middle of the story,
when you're giving them agency over where to look and how to
experience it? And these challenges have really
fueled me over the last decade in crafting this narrative, and
(03:15):
our clients have really responded to that interaction.
And I think that it's part of why I'm so passionate about this
medium is that I feel like we'reback in 1910, just like
inventing cinema. Yes, it's just amazing.
I mean the technology is is amazing.
So as you said, it's not only the clarity of the picture is
you actually living right? You're in there.
(03:37):
And so I have a lot of questions, but me also being a
filmmaker and I produce some stuff, but nothing big, but
reduce some production when it comes to technology, right and
equivalent because it is new. So how, how do you deal with our
another cameras, for example? I mean, we have when it comes to
regular filming, there's some things out there right from
DSLRs to expensive cameras to even a phone, right?
(04:00):
Your phone could be something that you can record something, a
video. When it comes to Immersive 100
and 83160°, what are the limitations right now and how do
you deal with technology at the moment?
Yeah, it's a really great question.
You know, back when we started, the way that people were doing
things is they were putting Gopros in 3D printed rigs to
capture like, kind of like basedon panoramic photography, right?
(04:23):
They're capturing like differentslices of the sphere.
And then you would do this process called stitching where
you would put them together. So you'd be like, Oh yeah, that
pixel matches that pixel and we can align them and blend.
And the problem with that, of course, is like we see in
stereoscopic vision, our world is actually, and so things like
parallax become an issue and there's all sorts of technically
(04:45):
complex vision issues with filming that way.
One of the unique things we did Light Sail, was most people at
the time were shooting on 6 camera rigs, which put one of
those stitch lines down the center of your action.
And I looked at that and I was like, that's silly, that's
ridiculous because that's where our characters live.
(05:05):
That's where our story is happening.
So we bought a 10 camera rig that had like a full horizon,
pretty clean. And you know, I remember because
we used to put everyone in the headset back in those days and a
lot of comments we would get would be like, it's so clean.
It looks so good. And I think it was more of a
result of us just understanding like how to use technology for
(05:25):
storytelling purposes than anything else, right.
Today, I'm happy to report that the technology has gotten a lot
better, but also like shifted, like you'll notice like there's
not as much 360° worth being produced today.
You know, we did our Saturday Night Live, our Emmy
award-winning experience for the50th anniversary.
That was 3D 360. But that's one of the rare 3D
(05:47):
360 projects we've done in the last four or five years.
And I think a lot of this is because back in 2018, Google was
taking a look at like 360° videoand they were looking at the
data and saying 70% of people never turn around, look what's
behind them. That's a pretty overwhelming
majority. If the complexity of shooting
(06:09):
360 was was hard, right? Like where do you put the crew?
Where do you put your camera? Where do you put your lights?
These are things that could be solved with visual effects, but
that just made the cost of production that much more
expensive. We went to a format called 180,
which is basically like a hemisphere in front of you.
And what's nice about that is creatively, it allows the
(06:30):
audience or the director, sorry to say, hey, at least look at
this way. It becomes a little bit more
proscenium, which feels a littlemore theatrical.
And I think it's a little more comfortable for audiences
because we're used to like sitting in a chair, looking
forwards and taking in a story. The whole idea of being able to
like look around on a, on a project like the SNL 50th
(06:51):
anniversary where you want to see all the celebrities and you
want to see the sketches and youwant to like be on Studio 8 HS
stage. It makes a lot of sense.
But for narrative projects, storytelling projects like
documentaries where we're following a famous person, like
we're, we're at a concert or we're telling a ghost story or
(07:12):
whatever. Like at that point the filmmaker
is saying look in this direction.
Like, for example, if you're, you know, filming Sabrina
Carpenter, you're not looking away from Sabrina Carpenter at
any point in your production, right?
Like you're never doing that. So why would you worry about the
back half? And the technology reasons for
doing this was we can put twice as many pixels on the screen at
(07:36):
the same resolution, meaning thedensity is sharper and clearer.
The feedback we were getting at the time was it's blurry.
It looks like I'm watching old videos from like the is, well, I
guess the 2000s, right? It's just like super blurry.
And the stereoscopic 3D was a lot better too, because you had
a pair of stereo lenses and you didn't have any computational
(07:59):
computer vision, which was also prone to a lot of artifacts and
weird effects when people would cross the stitch lines.
So 180 kind of became easier produce to produce.
It looked better and, and gave, you know, traditional film
makers a bit more of a ease intothe immersive format rather than
(08:20):
trying to figure out how what I do with the entire sphere.
And so now we've got like Canon release the lens a few years ago
called the the RF 5.2mm. It's a dual fisheye lens and you
could stick it on a number of Canon bodies, which is really
cool. That's interchangeable, works
with the kit a lot of people already own and you can produce
extremely high quality immersivefilms that way.
(08:42):
And then and last year, Black Magic came out with the Ursus
City Immersive in collaboration with Apple.
And this is like they've just doubled the picture quality.
Instead of like 20 pixels per degree, it's out like 44 pixels
per degree. And that just means that the
footage looks sharper and clearer and the color is wider
(09:02):
dynamic range. And when you're trying to put
someone in the story and feel like they're actually there, you
want it to be almost indistinguishable from reality.
We're almost there because like human 2020 vision is 60 pixels
per degree. They, the scientists to figure
this out, right? So we're at 44 right now.
(09:22):
The Apple Vision Pro headset is remarkably clear.
It's a really great display. And they've also solved a lot of
workflow challenges where like capturing the camera is a lot
easier. There's less things to go wrong.
We're, we're at a very exciting moment in 2026 where the
technology is finally like meeting where the headsets are
(09:43):
and meeting where the storytelling language is.
And it's like kind of all comingtogether in a beautiful way that
leaves me very excited for for what's going to happen this
year. Well, that's amazing then.
So technically I get the camerasand yeah, I've seen the black
magic also, I was maybe shootingsome a lot of things there.
(10:05):
It's amazing. I haven't tried it because I'm
not I haven't done any hundred and being editing or the
filming. But editing, that's another
question. Software wise, is that the same
assignment idea as regular editing?
Or do do you use Davinci Resolve?
For example, can you use? It's a great, it's a super great
question. The the answer is we do use
(10:26):
traditional editing tools, like no one's making a NLE specific
for immersive. I just think there's not that
many people doing it. That wouldn't make any sense,
right? But what we're doing is we're
using Davinci Resolve, A lot of people use Adobe Premiere as
well. And then we kind of invent
certain plug insurance and workflows to make it work.
And I will say that Apple and Davinci Resolve have come up
(10:47):
with a pretty great workflow. The only disadvantage I find for
that is that it's very like as alot of things Apple are, it's
very in the Apple universe. So it's like if you're only
publishing the Vision Pro and you're only doing this, it's
great. And I think there's a very
healthy road map for Apple Vision Pro.
And I think it's a great productand I'm excited to see where it
goes. But currently today, it's like,
(11:09):
I think I heard 470,000 units sold worldwide.
That's a very small audience, right?
As opposed to like on Meta's platform, you got like 50
million headsets sold worldwide.That's a much larger audience.
And when we're talking about making stuff Light Sail, we want
to make stuff for the masses. Our whole thing about
entertainment is like, hey, it is tech demo.
(11:31):
It's cool if 100 people see it at a festival.
I love that. That's very inspiring.
But how do we make millions of people experience this?
That's what we're really interested in.
So in editorial, we've had to, we've been really focused on
scalability content. How do we do an entire season of
Red Rocks? And we've done 14 episodes at
(11:52):
Red Rocks like that's a, that's a real, we've been two seasons
of ATV Show. When you think about how much
data that is, you have to think about your post pipeline and
your editorial pipeline and how are you handling literally
terabytes and terabytes of footage.
Just storing it just working the.
Fingers of K-60 frames a second media.
(12:12):
And so there's like, there's like that side of things where
we can get really technical and talk about like just the fact
that data is insane. Had a show and if you're doing a
2 hour concert with 12 cameras and you're filming, you know, 3
to 4 terabytes per camera, you're walking away with 40 to
50 terabytes of data on a singlenight.
(12:33):
That's before processing. Remember, like everything in VR
has to be like processed like almost like a film laboratory.
It's wild. And then if we're doing Apple
immersive, it's 90 frames a second, it's 16 K.
It's even crazier how much time this stuff takes when we work in
like Davinci Resolve, for example, Lightsail has been
(12:55):
pioneering some cool technology that we're excited to partner
with companies and get feedback on.
And right now everything is still a little bit bespoke, but
we're we are looking at like, how do we make this into
something that more people can have access to?
And that is like, how do you seewhat you're editing in your
headset easier? What's the connection point?
Because looking at a flat screenmonitor, we're looking at a
(13:17):
distorted either image that's inlike echo rectangular, which is
like taking, you know, those projections of the earth that
are flat, like the map where Greenland's the size of Africa,
right? Like it's just distorted.
It's not right. And there's no way for me to
look at a computer monitor and go, I know what the audience is
feeling. I know how that feels in VR.
The only way to do that is to take your headset and put it on
(13:40):
your face and actually like lookaround and see it.
That workflow has not been really developed by companies.
And so Light Sail, what we have is we have a bunch of gizmos and
gadgets and some custom softwarewe've written that gets the
signal out of a program like Davinci Resolve or Adobe
Premiere or After Effects slingsit over the Internet to wherever
(14:00):
you might be so you can receive it in your headset.
And this has been phenomenal because we collaborate with
people in Oregon, New York, Chicago, the UK, Atlanta and,
and we need, we're working in a global economy economy right
now. This is a global world of
creative people. And we need to be able to push
these like high resolution images across the Internet and
(14:21):
then render them in stereoscopic3D 180° locally on someone's
headset. So that's great because I can
sit now in our color Bay and we can do a color session where
everyone's looking at the final image in headset, which with
color really matters because I mean, it's a perfect confidence
monitor or editorial. Well, you know, like how does it
feel when we cut from here to here?
(14:42):
Like editing is a little different in VR.
Like you have to think about more about the geometry of your
space and where characters are and more importantly, how people
look because they'll be following something and if you
cut and then suddenly they're looking at a wall or something,
like that's not interesting. It feels like a very hard cut
and people can go like, oh, where am I?
Oh my God. Oh my God.
(15:03):
Yeah. So, so looking at stuff, stuff
in a headset, that's the biggestdifference I think in the
editorial pipeline is that you can't look at your computer
monitor and know what you're going to be doing.
Right, exactly. That's that's why I was asking.
And then so you're definitely, your company's definitely a
pioneer in this because as you said, there's not a lot of
things out there and you guys got to develop it and create it
right? Now when it comes to creating,
your goal is pretty much to create an ecosystem, right?
(15:25):
I'm guessing that people could use, right.
And yeah, with different companies that can actually
develop these, as you said, it'ssoftware, it's easy for anybody
to jump in and create content, right?
And just look at. That yeah, we have a phrase here
because we're, you know, light sail, VR light, light, light
bulbs, sail like a sailboat, OK?I mean, we're very not into
nautical puns. And so our phrase we use is A
(15:45):
rising tide lifts all ships. Well, yeah, you know, and, you
know, we would love to work on everything.
That's a mentality. You don't want to be the person
that, you know, does everything by himself.
We have to be. We just like.
We have to scale like I would love to work on every VR project
under the sun, you know, like there's been, some have come out
that I've been like, ah, man, ifI'd been on that, I had some
(16:06):
notes. I'd love to like Pioneer, do
some stuff here, but you can't. And for me, what I see is the
opportunity and the challenge tosay, hey, what can be better
about your pipeline, your workflow?
How can we work with establishedcreatives to better communicate
the unique needs of creating in this medium?
And what tools or workflows or guides can we create as light
(16:27):
sail to help you do that? And that's just an evolving
conversation. I talk to people every day and I
asked them like, where are you getting stuck?
What's hard for you? What's cost intensive for you?
And we, and we really take that to heart because I'm very
committed to telling stories in this medium.
And I'm very committed to the idea that we should be keeping
(16:48):
creatives in the creative lane and smoothing out all those
technical hurdles. Like you don't want, you don't
want Eli Roth calling you at 2:00 in the morning complaining
that he can't get a file onto his headset.
You know, because it's like the workflow's super clunky.
That happened to me and that's what spawned us to create an
application called Screening Room, which is like Frame IO,
(17:08):
which is a very popular video review tool, but we put it in
the VR headset. So you can download stuff
straight to your headset. You can, you can look at stuff
straight in your headset, you can give notes straight in your
headset and like that's been a huge time saver for us.
It's amazing. So I got another question.
How does I get the technical problem in the hurdles and and
(17:29):
I'm sure that's not going away pretty soon because there's
always going to be a challenge, right?
They'll release a camera next and then we'll have to get into
that. Yeah, you have to run behind the
technology pretty much. How does market though embrace
this technology? And I'm not saying about the end
user, I'm talking about, for example, festivals.
As you said earlier, I'm sure not all festivals are able to
(17:50):
host a production that's VR, right?
Because you can't really put it on the screen, right?
To have an audience, you're going to have to have headsets
on screen or something like that, right?
So how easy is it to find a way to promote this to the end user,
right? So you can go on Film Festival,
right? Festival, throw on Amazon or
(18:10):
Netflix, whatever, there's ways to promote social media.
How do you promote this to the end user?
It's a great, it's a great question.
I would say like my biggest complaint right now about how
all the platforms are operating,this goes for Google, Apple and
Meta. So if you're listening like I've
told you this in person, but I'll say it again on this
podcast, discoverability is a huge problem.
(18:31):
There's no in headset advertising for other titles or
very little of it. And there's very little guidance
on what people want to watch. And the problem is, is we're in
a world now where there's so much choice and opportunity for
consumers that that getting yourmessage in front of them is
harder than ever because they are very keen on programming
(18:54):
what is interesting to them. And that is a huge shift from 20
years ago where or like, you know, I was growing up, Saturday
morning cartoons were Saturday morning cartoons.
Like you just you earned it on you watch Tom and Jerry.
You hated it. Too bad, right?
My kids, they boot up Netflix and they have their favorite
shows that they watch and they curate their own Saturday
(19:15):
morning cartoon time with what they want to see.
That is a huge fundamental shiftin how media consumption is
happening in the in this world. And so for immersive users,
there's very little good curation happening out there.
There's no TV Guide for Immersive and there's no
editorial programming that's happening outside of what Meta's
(19:38):
financing or Apple's putting on their TV Plus app.
And I would argue that even though Meta is spending billions
on content and investing more than anyone else in this space,
they're still not producing enough, right?
And Apple has it best produced like a very small, like they
come out with like one thing every few months and it's
usually pretty good. But it's like, if you don't like
this artist, or you don't like documentaries or you don't like
(20:00):
sports films, there's very little content for you to like.
Start forming a regular habit ofgoing into your headset and.
Watching what's new, and that's kind of what we need is we need
people creating more content andthen figuring out how to
advertise it. It's it's really hard.
So when it comes to studios, have you seen them?
(20:20):
Because that would help. Also like if there's more
studios that people could go andfind the equipment needed to
film this because I don't think a indie producer would invest
renting or buying cameras that they're not very familiar with
to try to create something new. Yeah, it's really expensive.
It's like creating IMAX films. Here's what I am seeing that's
really interesting. But we begin going in through
(20:42):
marketing departments as like the thing because you have the
product, you have the 2D film that makes all your money and
then you usually have a budget to market your film.
And you know The thing is that Lightsail likes to do is we like
to make something called in universe original content.
So we take, and we've been doingthis since our very first big
piece, which was Paranormal Activity, the 360 SEANCE.
(21:05):
We did it 10 years ago. It got 10 million views online.
It's what launched our company. And the big thing that we've
always, our North Star has been like, we're fans of the
property. We understand the rules of the
world. Let's bring audiences into that
world with something original and new and fresh so they can
continue to engage with it. This has been a really
successful strategy for us because we've done this work
(21:27):
with Amazons, the boys, We did aproject with Candy Cane Lane for
them. We've done it on Gen.
V, We've done it on numerous other properties like
Borderlands. We did a 360 behind the scenes
for Eli Roths Borderlands and I think is like really fun and
cool to see and be on set because they filmed that during
COVID. So like no one was really
allowed to be there. So, you know, we're giving fans
(21:49):
the ability to come into an environment and get maybe a news
story or a little different take.
And I think that's great. So studios should really, I
think to be embracing this more and more.
The question is, is when does itmove out of the marketing side
of things, which is always like a money loser and into like
something that could be a money maker.
And that's that's where I'm we're still at a transition
(22:10):
period. I don't know if there's enough
people watching through enough headsets out there.
The compatibility would be important if the I see it as the
end user, right? I don't want to be attached to
one company with 1 headset and not being able to see
everything. It's like having a phone that
only you know. You can only see Facebook,
(22:31):
right? And you can't see Instagram.
I got to buy another phone to see Instagram yeah that wouldn't
work right. It works because all social
media is compatible with everything right.
So I think this would help also if it was more compatible OK, I
can invest buy 1 headset great good one.
You know that have good quality,but then to have access, yeah,
of course I have to pay some high end product of course, but
(22:53):
to have access to everything, ifthey're not compatible 100% that
creates another hurdle, right, because then the end users.
I agree the compatibility is like a huge thing, right?
Everything we make is compatibleon every headset.
Like VR video is a really standardized platform.
You know, it's acro rectangular,it's 8K, it's 60 frames a
second. Apple's doing something a little
different with their stuff. It's like much higher quality,
(23:15):
but like not compatible with anything else on the market.
But like we do have still like Iwould argue that if you're
watching, you know, an AK video on most bottom headsets, it's
still a very compelling experience and still very, very
good. So my whole thing is how do we
just create content that's more widely used?
The money is where this all becomes really complicated
(23:35):
because a studio is looking at their marketing budget and being
like, well, I might get a lot more impressions and more views
and more buzz and look better tomy boss doing like a traditional
trailer drop situation, more like a big marketing stunt type
thing. Whereas then you have like a
Meta or an Apple mainly like I think a Meta, but like they're
like, hey, we want to sell more headsets, so let's tie up some
(23:57):
exclusivity and that, as you said, like kind of walled
gardens it a little bit being like, oh, you can only find this
stuff on Meta's platform. That makes sense.
They're paying the money for it.They should have it, but it does
close. How many people are really able
to experience it? So what would you advise an
indie film? Because now, as you said, with
black magic, you can actually buy a camera.
(24:18):
You don't have to buy, as you said, you know, 10 pros and try
to figure it out. You have to buy a camera.
How easy is it for somebody to see a documentary?
I want to grab a 360 camera or immersive camera.
You said from black magic and I want to go film A1 country very
much more travel or the US in travel states.
How easy is it for them to buy the camera, which I guess it
(24:39):
cost some money, but every equipment cost money.
So that's not a deal for me. The way I see it, about how easy
is it to incorporate it on your on your style?
So you grab, you fill, I mean, with a regular camera, you know,
I grab a regular DSLR, go film something, throw it on right and
you're done. Yeah.
Is it easy? Is it easy for somebody to
(25:01):
switch to something like that? That's it.
That's a problem. The problem is less the
equipment, you know what I mean?I think people think it's like,
oh, I got to have the right equipment.
It's like that's the easy part. You just spend money on
equipment. You can, you can spend 30 grand
on a black magic camera or you can spend 5 grand on a Canon
solution. That looks pretty good too.
You got to have hard drives, yougot to have a fast computer, but
(25:24):
that stuff's easy. The hard thing is the language
of storytelling. When you go out to make like a
documentary or a film for you, like your YouTube channel, you
know a lot of film makers, they have a frame and they have have
a shallow depth of field and they're able to cheat a lot of
things, right? They're able to like throw a
bunch of things out of focus that they don't really want to
see or frame it out. With Immersive, you have 180°
(25:47):
canvas, you're seeing everythingin the world.
You don't like that constructionover there.
Well, too bad, it's part of yourscene now that's your story.
You don't have releases to like show all these people at the
beach. Well, too bad, it's part of your
story. And cleaning that up, by the
way, really expensive, because these are huge files.
Like huge. So thinking creatively about
(26:08):
what makes sense in this medium.If you're an indie filmmaker,
I'd encourage you to think smallinstead of thinking big and lean
in on this idea of presence. What makes this medium so
compelling is that you're putting people in a place they
can't get to or access to someone they don't normally have
access to, and you're giving them that intimate experience.
(26:28):
If you lean into this, you don'tneed fancy camera moves.
What you you need as a film, indie film producers, you need
access, right? Take them to the pyramids, take
them to the mangroves in in Florida, take them backstage at
a concert. You know, do like an intimate
solo guitar thing, something that fans will really like, and
(26:49):
then capture it very simply and honestly and authentically.
You know, taking care to pick anenvironment that looks cool and
light it in a way that feels real.
Then I think you're creating compelling content and you're
not spending so much money on stuff that doesn't translate as
well anyway. You know, as you said, it's a
different mindset because you don't have one frame Now you
(27:11):
have, well, you have a huge. Frame I call it unframed media,
right? Right.
So then it's hard. I said lighting.
I mean, that's one thing that just came to my mind right now.
Light in that case would be a different.
Challenging. You got to.
Concentrate different way. You have to think completely or
as you said, what's on the framewhen taking the everything's on
the frame. So yeah, you know it's going to
(27:32):
be. Hard.
That's the hard part. Like honestly, now the computer
stuff like you can learn that, you know, there's a lot of
tutorials and a lot of videos and a lot of there's a vibrant
community of people who will tell you the right settings to
use. They'll they'll tell you the
computers to get, they'll, they'll have the workflows that
you can do. I've done a number of those
videos. I have some stuff coming out
(27:53):
soon that like dives really deepon some specifics that I think
is going to be very helpful for folks.
But it really does come down to all your pre production.
And like if you're a indie film producer who likes to fly by the
seat of their pants and make it up like improv jazz, immersive
is not that medium. It is much more like filming an
IMAX movie, you know, where you need, you need a lot of planning
(28:16):
and prep and careful craftsmanship to make the best
work. And that's why I love it because
I'm a little bit not like a fly by the seat of my pants kind of
person. I am a, I'm the guy that like
before we go on a family road trip, I'm like making like
detailed lists and like, we're going to stop here.
And, you know, I always leave a little bit of room for improv,
but I, I like to feel prepared and I get joy in that.
(28:38):
I like that. That's, that's, that's how I
like to operate. So immersive kind of feels like
home for me because it's like, it's very technical.
It it requires an expert level of craftsmanship.
So if somebody wants to work with your company, what would
you offer? What do you offer as a company?
Do I come to you as a producer and asking for help to create
(28:58):
that for me or you guys create that?
You know that idea Let's you have an idea for a movie right
now get 360 or or a shot. Do I contact your company for
you to create it for us or you help us create it?
You know, we work at a lot of different levels at Light Sail
and we've tried not to really close the door on too many of
them because, you know, immersive is small and I think
(29:20):
there's a lot of things that arestill being innovative on and
we're trying to lead at the forefront of that.
So there's a couple ways that you can work with us.
The 1st is at the very basic. We're just a good services
company like you need A to process your footage, you need
talented artists to do visual effects work and your online and
your color grade and you need tosolve those technological
(29:40):
hurdles. You can hire us to do that.
We can be the photochem of VR, right?
That's pretty cut and dry. We have rates for sending out an
operator to supervise on your set.
We have rates for setting a livepreview rig so you can see where
you're shooting. We have rates for the dailies,
processing for post work, all that stuff.
And that's like a standard rate card.
(30:01):
That's one way that we work and we do that with a number of
companies. But we're I think we add a lot
more value is when we are more deeply integrated in your
production as like a Co producer.
So you're gonna need a film maker.
You have an idea. Let's say you have a contact
with like and a great relationship with, you know,
someone who has some marketing pull and you're like, hey, I
(30:21):
think this story about this artist would be really amazing
and immersive. You know, we come in and we can
help creatively help you tell that story.
And that's where I do a lot of my work personally is I work
with some some big film directors and some creative
folks who say, Hey, I have this artist, I want to tell this
story. I think it'll be really great
and immersive. And I go, great, I'm going to
(30:44):
partner with you. You're going to tell me your
idea and what you want to evoke.And I'm going to make sure that
that translates and immersive. And sometimes it works really
well, but sometimes they're like, I want to evoke this.
And normally what they would do is they would move the camera or
do this crazy zoom thing or someframed storytelling technique.
(31:04):
That's where I come in as the VRsupervisor and I say, hey, I
love this concept in Immersive. We might approach it this way
because this will give you that same narrative thing.
I'll give you a really good example.
The close up narratively, when you cut to a close up in a
framed piece of media, you're really trying to get behind the
soul of the person deep into their eyes.
(31:25):
You're trying to get that real emotional connective tissue.
One way you can do that an immersive since there isn't a
close up, there's no like framedreally close up moment.
One way you can do that is have your character look directly
down the barrel of the lens, because narratively this is
doing the exact same thing because you're looking directly
into the audience and the audience feels like they're
(31:45):
there, they're seeing behind that person's eyes, they're
getting an intimate connection moment, they're feeling seen in
the space. And that delivers that same
narrative like task as a close up would in a traditional framed
piece of media. That's a different.
Perspective. The way you see it, I mean.
Exactly with your. Experience.
Wow. So that's that's amazing.
(32:05):
That's a cool thing that you're both a creator and a technical
guy, right? So you're not just a programmer
that knows how to program and create VR, but you have to be
creative also, because that's something that somebody that's
tech savvy wouldn't understand, right?
They wouldn't understand what you just said.
So that's amazing. Yeah, it's a cool.
I mean, I've always been a technical dude.
(32:25):
I always love noodling with computers and editing and all
that stuff. But yeah, I went to film school
to be a director. I spent a lot of my time pre
College in the theater, you know, studying that.
And I, I just, I live at that intersection of art and science,
art and technology that I reallylove. 11 Last question just to
cover everything here, one big problem that everybody has as a
(32:48):
producer, as a as a film that inthe city, stuff like that is
financial. We're struggling.
Everybody's struggling, not we because I'm not representing
anybody Everybody that creates content struggles with finance,
right? They can't get people to
finance. You have to, you know, really
fight and and try to prove yourself.
How easy is it with this, which is a smaller market and
(33:11):
something that a lot of people that might be able to find is
you might not even understand ormight not even heard of or have
a wrong idea about it right. It's.
Almost impossible. It's a miracle anything gets
made. To be quite honest, The finance
conversation is the most important conversation we can
have in this media. It is because we're at a
(33:32):
crossroads, not just for immersive, but for all of
entertainment. And the problem with immersive
is there's not a is not a fall back to cover up the sins of
this changing world. And the reality is is, you know,
televisions is rocky right now, but still has revenue streaming
(33:53):
sources of advertising dollars coming in through traditional
broadcast networks, which are still despite like broadcast TV
is dying. And yes, I would say it's
declining and the the data showsthat, but it's still bringing in
a phenomenal amount of revenue into the studios.
OK. And it's hiding from that.
Same thing with like ticket sales for movies.
Yeah, less people are going to see the movies, but like they've
(34:13):
just to increase the price of the tickets and they're still
bringing in stuff. Mersive sits at this like unique
position where we we don't really have ticket sales.
EOD is not really a thing. There's no advertising in VR
headsets, so there's no ads being sold against it.
So what is the economy here? How are creators getting paid
for their work? What is if you're an investor
(34:35):
and you're like, why should I put $1,000,000 in this project?
Will I make my money back? I would say to you, no, you
won't. I hate being that way, but I'm a
realist. Like so many people pitch us
ideas and they're like, yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna make
all this money and I go. Have you crunched the numbers?
I have a dear friend who published a piece on Vision Pro
and they've told me that they couldn't even buy me a lunch
(34:57):
with how much money they've madeon their on their project.
And that's sad because it's one of the best pieces I've ever
seen. I think it's creatively really
amazing. And how they got it made was
through government grants because they're telling impact
stories, they're telling historical stories.
And I think they're, you know, Ithink that's the folks who have
been taking a chance on this is visionaries who have an excess
(35:18):
of cash or they want to do something because they want to
add to humanity. They think that what they're
making is actually elevating thehuman experience.
And I think that's important. And I applaud and love those
people. But if we don't figure out the
economy of media soon, I'm very worried for for storytelling.
Let me be honest, storytelling is it is an innate to human
(35:42):
beings as eating throughout the history of human existence, it
has been like put food on the table, tell a story and you can
find this cave drawings way backwhen the first computer that was
invented in the the 1940s, it took a whole room.
It was like crunching numbers and somebody came in and said, I
wonder can I make this play music or do a game?
(36:04):
Can I tell a story with this? Creativity is what makes us
human and we can't support economy of those willing to
share their stories and lift us all up.
Then then I'm afraid for what that future world looks like.
So, yeah, what would I think a lot of kinds about that in there
(36:25):
and a lot of conversations I have with people is that because
I just said, I mean, we feel that we're changing like a is in
our life now and things are getting better and more
technical advanced, right? But as you said, when it comes
to finance, I mean, we see it every day.
It's extremely hard. Competition is huge.
Access to media is easy. But finding somebody to fund
(36:47):
that right now is harder, right?In the past, it means create a
movie. You had to be in the big studio.
You had have, you know, a gigantic crew.
Now you can do something nice when a small crew, not a lot of
money, but how do you make one day?
How do you survive? And yeah, I mean, that's
something that with this technology, I'm guessing it's
even harder because it's something new the.
Cost of production is too high, right?
(37:08):
And we know that, but like it just takes a lot of time to do
this stuff like of. Course.
Definitely, we just did 2D. Special equipment, right And
yeah, we just. Exported A2D film and it took
like 5 minutes and it's like that same length of a movie in
VR takes 3 hours right on the same computer.
I I. I'm a technical guy too, so I
understand completely. I mean just saving those files
(37:28):
as you said, having storage and saving, moving those files for
everything. If they're not in the same area,
you have to transport them or orsend them.
I mean, that's just a headache. A huge headache, yeah.
But I think. Hats off.
I mean, for you fighting that asit's amazing.
The way I see it is more like, I'm guessing blackumentarians,
right? Yeah, creating a documentary,
it's not always something that sells to the masses, but you can
(37:50):
find people to fund it because they love the story.
They love the the specific things you're talking about.
You're showing, right? Yeah.
And I think that's the big thingis like maybe we're moving
towards a world where we find a bunch of very passionate people
who are very into your story andthey're financing it that way.
Like how are we getting people involved in the stories they
(38:11):
want to tell earlier to help make these stories happen?
And I think we're seeing that with like things like
Kickstarter, right? Like there's already like game
companies who live and die on Kickstarter because they will
pre sell their whole game to their fan base ahead of time and
that's how they make their revenue for the year.
Can we do that with film, or at least immersive?
Is it OK that we have a smaller but very dedicated audience for
(38:34):
things? Because the power of this format
is incredible. I've met people who can't tell
you what they ate for breakfast that morning, but they can tell
you every detail of an immersivefilm they saw four months ago.
It's more of a yeah, the way they resonated with a specific
product. Nice.
That's amazing. So.
So we got all this information and so amazing all the stuff
(38:55):
you're doing and, and all the productions you're working with
and that's just amazing. Congratulations all your work.
Thank you. And good luck in the future.
My next question would be in oneof the last ones.
It would be how do you see your company in next?
I don't want to say five years because nobody can predict in
more that far away. But what are your future plans?
What would you what are you working on creating or you know,
(39:17):
how would you like to see your company, you know, move on.
Yeah, so. We, we talk about this daily.
We, we will continue to be the company that helps people make
great content. And I think that we found a
really nice home in collaborating with some of the
best companies and production companies in the world and the
highest and talent to bring the their stories into this new
technology space. And we'll continue doing that.
(39:38):
But I think going forward the next couple of years, we've
gotten some ideas of our own that we want to kind of produce.
So I'm hoping to get some of those projects off the ground.
I'm hoping to add creatively to the voice.
And what I really want to do is I really want to solve two
things in particular. I want to figure out how I can
help solve discoverability of this few things and get
audiences to pick up that headset daily and jump into it
(40:01):
to see something. And I think the one off stuff is
great. And we've innovative a lot, but
we need to start forming a habitwith audiences.
And that means that they need tostart expecting like something
new is going to drop daily and like that and it's going to be
worth their time and energy to escape the real world for 5:10,
20-30 minutes and experience. That's a lot to ask of someone.
(40:23):
It's a lot of responsibility on me to create content that is
good enough to demand that amount of attention and time for
somebody. So that's really what I want to
focus on is I want to create that amount of content at that
quality level that audiences go.This is worth it for me.
And I'm sure you're going to do it and if wherever we can help
and we would like to promote. So just keep us posted with all
(40:45):
your information. So if somebody wants to find out
more about your company, how canyou do it?
Besides your website, how else can you communicate with you?
Yeah, the best way place to findme if you want to talk VR or
immersive video or nerd about cameras, which I always love to
do, is hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there.
That's my social platform of choice.
And or you can just shoot me an e-mail mattmatt@lightsailvr.com.
(41:09):
I try to be pretty open and available for folks.
I'm a big evangelist of this andwe're all trying to make great
stories together. We're going to have all your
information on the website and on the show so people can find
you. Our goal is also if we can help
you. I mean, I like what you're
doing. Thank you.
And I never see anybody as a competitor, more CM as a
collaborator. And I like to work with
everybody. A rising.
(41:29):
Tide lifts all exactly. Yeah, I might start using that
too. I'm not going to copy it, but
well, it's just amazing, to be honest.
I like creators like that. And if we have more people like
you actually in the business because the business would have
been better, right? Just to say that.
OK, thank you very much for being here.
I'm sure we're going to have more.
We're going to have you as a guest again, because we have so
(41:51):
many things. You have so many things to talk
about and we have so many questions.
I mean, we try to cover a littlebit of everything.
And I think we got the the very good idea of the industry and
the technology. But as you said, it needs to be
promoted more and we would definitely try to do our best to
help whatever we can and promoteit.
That's amazing. Thanks so much for having me.
(42:13):
Thanks for joining us on Film, Tech and finance.
Don't forget to follow and subscribe for more insights and
updates.
Welcome to Film Tech and Finance, where we explore the
cutting edge technology and financial strategies driving the
film industry today. Welcome to Film Tech and
Finance, where creativity meets technology and finance.
Today our guest is an Emmy award-winning creative director
and immersive cinema pioneer. He is a Co founder of Light Sail
BR partnering with giants like Apple, Meta and Warner Brothers.
(00:23):
We'll explore his expertise in 180 and 360° storytelling,
blending cinematic artistry withcutting edge technology.
Let's welcome Matt Celia. Hi mate.
Great to be here, thanks for having me.
Yeah, nice, nice to be here. We have, I mean, I have tons of
things to talk about. So let's start about you, your
company, you know, a little bit of background.
(00:44):
Yeah, so I founded Lightsail. It's actually kind of a really
amazing time. It's our 10 year anniversary.
We started this company a decadeago, and really it was because,
you know, back then, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook bought a
company called Oculus for $2 billion.
And when you spend that kind of money, people wake up and they
take a notice, right? Like, that's a big market mover.
(01:06):
And at the time, I was a documentary filmmaker.
My now business partner, Robert Watts was my manager and he
shows up at my door with a phoneand a piece of cardboard.
And he's like, hey, I just saw this and I think you're going to
really love it. And he puts the phone into the
piece of cardboard and we put itup, you know, so easily Google
cardboard things, right? He's like, you know, headsets.
(01:26):
And I watched a piece called Walking New York that was done
from Chris Milk's company Verse at the time.
That's what it's called. And I was blown away.
I was in New York. I was in a helicopter.
I could look all around. I felt like I was totally
immersed in the narrative. And, you know, for me as a
documentary filmmaker, I've always been very attracted to
real people's stories, the authenticity of the world and
(01:49):
the fascination of how humans interact with their space and
how that can be used in storytelling.
And this just, like, lit up likefireworks for me.
So I went to a conference calledVRLA in Los Angeles.
I saw everything there, but everything I saw was devoid of
storytelling. It was just like putting the
(02:09):
camera down and letting the technology do all the work.
And I said, wait a second. Where's the character?
Where's the conflict? Where's that emotional resonance
that we get? Just because this is a new
medium doesn't mean we need to throw out 100 years of
storytelling techniques that we've come to harness.
And I saw that as a real challenge.
(02:30):
I said I think I can bring my real storytelling vibes into
this new technology, and I have something to say as an artist.
And that's proved to be really good for us because we live at
this intersection of story and technology where we work with
creative people. We understand the needs of
creative people at Light Sail, but we also help them navigate
(02:52):
this incredibly strange and often new storytelling language
that we're all inventing about. How do you communicate to
audiences when you're putting them in the middle of the story,
when you're giving them agency over where to look and how to
experience it? And these challenges have really
fueled me over the last decade in crafting this narrative, and
(03:15):
our clients have really responded to that interaction.
And I think that it's part of why I'm so passionate about this
medium is that I feel like we'reback in 1910, just like
inventing cinema. Yes, it's just amazing.
I mean the technology is is amazing.
So as you said, it's not only the clarity of the picture is
you actually living right? You're in there.
(03:37):
And so I have a lot of questions, but me also being a
filmmaker and I produce some stuff, but nothing big, but
reduce some production when it comes to technology, right and
equivalent because it is new. So how, how do you deal with our
another cameras, for example? I mean, we have when it comes to
regular filming, there's some things out there right from
DSLRs to expensive cameras to even a phone, right?
(04:00):
Your phone could be something that you can record something, a
video. When it comes to Immersive 100
and 83160°, what are the limitations right now and how do
you deal with technology at the moment?
Yeah, it's a really great question.
You know, back when we started, the way that people were doing
things is they were putting Gopros in 3D printed rigs to
capture like, kind of like basedon panoramic photography, right?
(04:23):
They're capturing like differentslices of the sphere.
And then you would do this process called stitching where
you would put them together. So you'd be like, Oh yeah, that
pixel matches that pixel and we can align them and blend.
And the problem with that, of course, is like we see in
stereoscopic vision, our world is actually, and so things like
parallax become an issue and there's all sorts of technically
(04:45):
complex vision issues with filming that way.
One of the unique things we did Light Sail, was most people at
the time were shooting on 6 camera rigs, which put one of
those stitch lines down the center of your action.
And I looked at that and I was like, that's silly, that's
ridiculous because that's where our characters live.
(05:05):
That's where our story is happening.
So we bought a 10 camera rig that had like a full horizon,
pretty clean. And you know, I remember because
we used to put everyone in the headset back in those days and a
lot of comments we would get would be like, it's so clean.
It looks so good. And I think it was more of a
result of us just understanding like how to use technology for
(05:25):
storytelling purposes than anything else, right.
Today, I'm happy to report that the technology has gotten a lot
better, but also like shifted, like you'll notice like there's
not as much 360° worth being produced today.
You know, we did our Saturday Night Live, our Emmy
award-winning experience for the50th anniversary.
That was 3D 360. But that's one of the rare 3D
(05:47):
360 projects we've done in the last four or five years.
And I think a lot of this is because back in 2018, Google was
taking a look at like 360° videoand they were looking at the
data and saying 70% of people never turn around, look what's
behind them. That's a pretty overwhelming
majority. If the complexity of shooting
(06:09):
360 was was hard, right? Like where do you put the crew?
Where do you put your camera? Where do you put your lights?
These are things that could be solved with visual effects, but
that just made the cost of production that much more
expensive. We went to a format called 180,
which is basically like a hemisphere in front of you.
And what's nice about that is creatively, it allows the
(06:30):
audience or the director, sorry to say, hey, at least look at
this way. It becomes a little bit more
proscenium, which feels a littlemore theatrical.
And I think it's a little more comfortable for audiences
because we're used to like sitting in a chair, looking
forwards and taking in a story. The whole idea of being able to
like look around on a, on a project like the SNL 50th
(06:51):
anniversary where you want to see all the celebrities and you
want to see the sketches and youwant to like be on Studio 8 HS
stage. It makes a lot of sense.
But for narrative projects, storytelling projects like
documentaries where we're following a famous person, like
we're, we're at a concert or we're telling a ghost story or
(07:12):
whatever. Like at that point the filmmaker
is saying look in this direction.
Like, for example, if you're, you know, filming Sabrina
Carpenter, you're not looking away from Sabrina Carpenter at
any point in your production, right?
Like you're never doing that. So why would you worry about the
back half? And the technology reasons for
doing this was we can put twice as many pixels on the screen at
(07:36):
the same resolution, meaning thedensity is sharper and clearer.
The feedback we were getting at the time was it's blurry.
It looks like I'm watching old videos from like the is, well, I
guess the 2000s, right? It's just like super blurry.
And the stereoscopic 3D was a lot better too, because you had
a pair of stereo lenses and you didn't have any computational
(07:59):
computer vision, which was also prone to a lot of artifacts and
weird effects when people would cross the stitch lines.
So 180 kind of became easier produce to produce.
It looked better and, and gave, you know, traditional film
makers a bit more of a ease intothe immersive format rather than
(08:20):
trying to figure out how what I do with the entire sphere.
And so now we've got like Canon release the lens a few years ago
called the the RF 5.2mm. It's a dual fisheye lens and you
could stick it on a number of Canon bodies, which is really
cool. That's interchangeable, works
with the kit a lot of people already own and you can produce
extremely high quality immersivefilms that way.
(08:42):
And then and last year, Black Magic came out with the Ursus
City Immersive in collaboration with Apple.
And this is like they've just doubled the picture quality.
Instead of like 20 pixels per degree, it's out like 44 pixels
per degree. And that just means that the
footage looks sharper and clearer and the color is wider
(09:02):
dynamic range. And when you're trying to put
someone in the story and feel like they're actually there, you
want it to be almost indistinguishable from reality.
We're almost there because like human 2020 vision is 60 pixels
per degree. They, the scientists to figure
this out, right? So we're at 44 right now.
(09:22):
The Apple Vision Pro headset is remarkably clear.
It's a really great display. And they've also solved a lot of
workflow challenges where like capturing the camera is a lot
easier. There's less things to go wrong.
We're, we're at a very exciting moment in 2026 where the
technology is finally like meeting where the headsets are
(09:43):
and meeting where the storytelling language is.
And it's like kind of all comingtogether in a beautiful way that
leaves me very excited for for what's going to happen this
year. Well, that's amazing then.
So technically I get the camerasand yeah, I've seen the black
magic also, I was maybe shootingsome a lot of things there.
(10:05):
It's amazing. I haven't tried it because I'm
not I haven't done any hundred and being editing or the
filming. But editing, that's another
question. Software wise, is that the same
assignment idea as regular editing?
Or do do you use Davinci Resolve?
For example, can you use? It's a great, it's a super great
question. The the answer is we do use
(10:26):
traditional editing tools, like no one's making a NLE specific
for immersive. I just think there's not that
many people doing it. That wouldn't make any sense,
right? But what we're doing is we're
using Davinci Resolve, A lot of people use Adobe Premiere as
well. And then we kind of invent
certain plug insurance and workflows to make it work.
And I will say that Apple and Davinci Resolve have come up
(10:47):
with a pretty great workflow. The only disadvantage I find for
that is that it's very like as alot of things Apple are, it's
very in the Apple universe. So it's like if you're only
publishing the Vision Pro and you're only doing this, it's
great. And I think there's a very
healthy road map for Apple Vision Pro.
And I think it's a great productand I'm excited to see where it
goes. But currently today, it's like,
(11:09):
I think I heard 470,000 units sold worldwide.
That's a very small audience, right?
As opposed to like on Meta's platform, you got like 50
million headsets sold worldwide.That's a much larger audience.
And when we're talking about making stuff Light Sail, we want
to make stuff for the masses. Our whole thing about
entertainment is like, hey, it is tech demo.
(11:31):
It's cool if 100 people see it at a festival.
I love that. That's very inspiring.
But how do we make millions of people experience this?
That's what we're really interested in.
So in editorial, we've had to, we've been really focused on
scalability content. How do we do an entire season of
Red Rocks? And we've done 14 episodes at
(11:52):
Red Rocks like that's a, that's a real, we've been two seasons
of ATV Show. When you think about how much
data that is, you have to think about your post pipeline and
your editorial pipeline and how are you handling literally
terabytes and terabytes of footage.
Just storing it just working the.
Fingers of K-60 frames a second media.
(12:12):
And so there's like, there's like that side of things where
we can get really technical and talk about like just the fact
that data is insane. Had a show and if you're doing a
2 hour concert with 12 cameras and you're filming, you know, 3
to 4 terabytes per camera, you're walking away with 40 to
50 terabytes of data on a singlenight.
(12:33):
That's before processing. Remember, like everything in VR
has to be like processed like almost like a film laboratory.
It's wild. And then if we're doing Apple
immersive, it's 90 frames a second, it's 16 K.
It's even crazier how much time this stuff takes when we work in
like Davinci Resolve, for example, Lightsail has been
(12:55):
pioneering some cool technology that we're excited to partner
with companies and get feedback on.
And right now everything is still a little bit bespoke, but
we're we are looking at like, how do we make this into
something that more people can have access to?
And that is like, how do you seewhat you're editing in your
headset easier? What's the connection point?
Because looking at a flat screenmonitor, we're looking at a
(13:17):
distorted either image that's inlike echo rectangular, which is
like taking, you know, those projections of the earth that
are flat, like the map where Greenland's the size of Africa,
right? Like it's just distorted.
It's not right. And there's no way for me to
look at a computer monitor and go, I know what the audience is
feeling. I know how that feels in VR.
The only way to do that is to take your headset and put it on
(13:40):
your face and actually like lookaround and see it.
That workflow has not been really developed by companies.
And so Light Sail, what we have is we have a bunch of gizmos and
gadgets and some custom softwarewe've written that gets the
signal out of a program like Davinci Resolve or Adobe
Premiere or After Effects slingsit over the Internet to wherever
(14:00):
you might be so you can receive it in your headset.
And this has been phenomenal because we collaborate with
people in Oregon, New York, Chicago, the UK, Atlanta and,
and we need, we're working in a global economy economy right
now. This is a global world of
creative people. And we need to be able to push
these like high resolution images across the Internet and
(14:21):
then render them in stereoscopic3D 180° locally on someone's
headset. So that's great because I can
sit now in our color Bay and we can do a color session where
everyone's looking at the final image in headset, which with
color really matters because I mean, it's a perfect confidence
monitor or editorial. Well, you know, like how does it
feel when we cut from here to here?
(14:42):
Like editing is a little different in VR.
Like you have to think about more about the geometry of your
space and where characters are and more importantly, how people
look because they'll be following something and if you
cut and then suddenly they're looking at a wall or something,
like that's not interesting. It feels like a very hard cut
and people can go like, oh, where am I?
Oh my God. Oh my God.
(15:03):
Yeah. So, so looking at stuff, stuff
in a headset, that's the biggestdifference I think in the
editorial pipeline is that you can't look at your computer
monitor and know what you're going to be doing.
Right, exactly. That's that's why I was asking.
And then so you're definitely, your company's definitely a
pioneer in this because as you said, there's not a lot of
things out there and you guys got to develop it and create it
right? Now when it comes to creating,
your goal is pretty much to create an ecosystem, right?
(15:25):
I'm guessing that people could use, right.
And yeah, with different companies that can actually
develop these, as you said, it'ssoftware, it's easy for anybody
to jump in and create content, right?
And just look at. That yeah, we have a phrase here
because we're, you know, light sail, VR light, light, light
bulbs, sail like a sailboat, OK?I mean, we're very not into
nautical puns. And so our phrase we use is A
(15:45):
rising tide lifts all ships. Well, yeah, you know, and, you
know, we would love to work on everything.
That's a mentality. You don't want to be the person
that, you know, does everything by himself.
We have to be. We just like.
We have to scale like I would love to work on every VR project
under the sun, you know, like there's been, some have come out
that I've been like, ah, man, ifI'd been on that, I had some
(16:06):
notes. I'd love to like Pioneer, do
some stuff here, but you can't. And for me, what I see is the
opportunity and the challenge tosay, hey, what can be better
about your pipeline, your workflow?
How can we work with establishedcreatives to better communicate
the unique needs of creating in this medium?
And what tools or workflows or guides can we create as light
(16:27):
sail to help you do that? And that's just an evolving
conversation. I talk to people every day and I
asked them like, where are you getting stuck?
What's hard for you? What's cost intensive for you?
And we, and we really take that to heart because I'm very
committed to telling stories in this medium.
And I'm very committed to the idea that we should be keeping
(16:48):
creatives in the creative lane and smoothing out all those
technical hurdles. Like you don't want, you don't
want Eli Roth calling you at 2:00 in the morning complaining
that he can't get a file onto his headset.
You know, because it's like the workflow's super clunky.
That happened to me and that's what spawned us to create an
application called Screening Room, which is like Frame IO,
(17:08):
which is a very popular video review tool, but we put it in
the VR headset. So you can download stuff
straight to your headset. You can, you can look at stuff
straight in your headset, you can give notes straight in your
headset and like that's been a huge time saver for us.
It's amazing. So I got another question.
How does I get the technical problem in the hurdles and and
(17:29):
I'm sure that's not going away pretty soon because there's
always going to be a challenge, right?
They'll release a camera next and then we'll have to get into
that. Yeah, you have to run behind the
technology pretty much. How does market though embrace
this technology? And I'm not saying about the end
user, I'm talking about, for example, festivals.
As you said earlier, I'm sure not all festivals are able to
(17:50):
host a production that's VR, right?
Because you can't really put it on the screen, right?
To have an audience, you're going to have to have headsets
on screen or something like that, right?
So how easy is it to find a way to promote this to the end user,
right? So you can go on Film Festival,
right? Festival, throw on Amazon or
(18:10):
Netflix, whatever, there's ways to promote social media.
How do you promote this to the end user?
It's a great, it's a great question.
I would say like my biggest complaint right now about how
all the platforms are operating,this goes for Google, Apple and
Meta. So if you're listening like I've
told you this in person, but I'll say it again on this
podcast, discoverability is a huge problem.
(18:31):
There's no in headset advertising for other titles or
very little of it. And there's very little guidance
on what people want to watch. And the problem is, is we're in
a world now where there's so much choice and opportunity for
consumers that that getting yourmessage in front of them is
harder than ever because they are very keen on programming
(18:54):
what is interesting to them. And that is a huge shift from 20
years ago where or like, you know, I was growing up, Saturday
morning cartoons were Saturday morning cartoons.
Like you just you earned it on you watch Tom and Jerry.
You hated it. Too bad, right?
My kids, they boot up Netflix and they have their favorite
shows that they watch and they curate their own Saturday
(19:15):
morning cartoon time with what they want to see.
That is a huge fundamental shiftin how media consumption is
happening in the in this world. And so for immersive users,
there's very little good curation happening out there.
There's no TV Guide for Immersive and there's no
editorial programming that's happening outside of what Meta's
(19:38):
financing or Apple's putting on their TV Plus app.
And I would argue that even though Meta is spending billions
on content and investing more than anyone else in this space,
they're still not producing enough, right?
And Apple has it best produced like a very small, like they
come out with like one thing every few months and it's
usually pretty good. But it's like, if you don't like
this artist, or you don't like documentaries or you don't like
(20:00):
sports films, there's very little content for you to like.
Start forming a regular habit ofgoing into your headset and.
Watching what's new, and that's kind of what we need is we need
people creating more content andthen figuring out how to
advertise it. It's it's really hard.
So when it comes to studios, have you seen them?
(20:20):
Because that would help. Also like if there's more
studios that people could go andfind the equipment needed to
film this because I don't think a indie producer would invest
renting or buying cameras that they're not very familiar with
to try to create something new. Yeah, it's really expensive.
It's like creating IMAX films. Here's what I am seeing that's
really interesting. But we begin going in through
(20:42):
marketing departments as like the thing because you have the
product, you have the 2D film that makes all your money and
then you usually have a budget to market your film.
And you know The thing is that Lightsail likes to do is we like
to make something called in universe original content.
So we take, and we've been doingthis since our very first big
piece, which was Paranormal Activity, the 360 SEANCE.
(21:05):
We did it 10 years ago. It got 10 million views online.
It's what launched our company. And the big thing that we've
always, our North Star has been like, we're fans of the
property. We understand the rules of the
world. Let's bring audiences into that
world with something original and new and fresh so they can
continue to engage with it. This has been a really
successful strategy for us because we've done this work
(21:27):
with Amazons, the boys, We did aproject with Candy Cane Lane for
them. We've done it on Gen.
V, We've done it on numerous other properties like
Borderlands. We did a 360 behind the scenes
for Eli Roths Borderlands and I think is like really fun and
cool to see and be on set because they filmed that during
COVID. So like no one was really
allowed to be there. So, you know, we're giving fans
(21:49):
the ability to come into an environment and get maybe a news
story or a little different take.
And I think that's great. So studios should really, I
think to be embracing this more and more.
The question is, is when does itmove out of the marketing side
of things, which is always like a money loser and into like
something that could be a money maker.
And that's that's where I'm we're still at a transition
(22:10):
period. I don't know if there's enough
people watching through enough headsets out there.
The compatibility would be important if the I see it as the
end user, right? I don't want to be attached to
one company with 1 headset and not being able to see
everything. It's like having a phone that
only you know. You can only see Facebook,
(22:31):
right? And you can't see Instagram.
I got to buy another phone to see Instagram yeah that wouldn't
work right. It works because all social
media is compatible with everything right.
So I think this would help also if it was more compatible OK, I
can invest buy 1 headset great good one.
You know that have good quality,but then to have access, yeah,
of course I have to pay some high end product of course, but
(22:53):
to have access to everything, ifthey're not compatible 100% that
creates another hurdle, right, because then the end users.
I agree the compatibility is like a huge thing, right?
Everything we make is compatibleon every headset.
Like VR video is a really standardized platform.
You know, it's acro rectangular,it's 8K, it's 60 frames a
second. Apple's doing something a little
different with their stuff. It's like much higher quality,
(23:15):
but like not compatible with anything else on the market.
But like we do have still like Iwould argue that if you're
watching, you know, an AK video on most bottom headsets, it's
still a very compelling experience and still very, very
good. So my whole thing is how do we
just create content that's more widely used?
The money is where this all becomes really complicated
(23:35):
because a studio is looking at their marketing budget and being
like, well, I might get a lot more impressions and more views
and more buzz and look better tomy boss doing like a traditional
trailer drop situation, more like a big marketing stunt type
thing. Whereas then you have like a
Meta or an Apple mainly like I think a Meta, but like they're
like, hey, we want to sell more headsets, so let's tie up some
(23:57):
exclusivity and that, as you said, like kind of walled
gardens it a little bit being like, oh, you can only find this
stuff on Meta's platform. That makes sense.
They're paying the money for it.They should have it, but it does
close. How many people are really able
to experience it? So what would you advise an
indie film? Because now, as you said, with
black magic, you can actually buy a camera.
(24:18):
You don't have to buy, as you said, you know, 10 pros and try
to figure it out. You have to buy a camera.
How easy is it for somebody to see a documentary?
I want to grab a 360 camera or immersive camera.
You said from black magic and I want to go film A1 country very
much more travel or the US in travel states.
How easy is it for them to buy the camera, which I guess it
(24:39):
cost some money, but every equipment cost money.
So that's not a deal for me. The way I see it, about how easy
is it to incorporate it on your on your style?
So you grab, you fill, I mean, with a regular camera, you know,
I grab a regular DSLR, go film something, throw it on right and
you're done. Yeah.
Is it easy? Is it easy for somebody to
(25:01):
switch to something like that? That's it.
That's a problem. The problem is less the
equipment, you know what I mean?I think people think it's like,
oh, I got to have the right equipment.
It's like that's the easy part. You just spend money on
equipment. You can, you can spend 30 grand
on a black magic camera or you can spend 5 grand on a Canon
solution. That looks pretty good too.
You got to have hard drives, yougot to have a fast computer, but
(25:24):
that stuff's easy. The hard thing is the language
of storytelling. When you go out to make like a
documentary or a film for you, like your YouTube channel, you
know a lot of film makers, they have a frame and they have have
a shallow depth of field and they're able to cheat a lot of
things, right? They're able to like throw a
bunch of things out of focus that they don't really want to
see or frame it out. With Immersive, you have 180°
(25:47):
canvas, you're seeing everythingin the world.
You don't like that constructionover there.
Well, too bad, it's part of yourscene now that's your story.
You don't have releases to like show all these people at the
beach. Well, too bad, it's part of your
story. And cleaning that up, by the
way, really expensive, because these are huge files.
Like huge. So thinking creatively about
(26:08):
what makes sense in this medium.If you're an indie filmmaker,
I'd encourage you to think smallinstead of thinking big and lean
in on this idea of presence. What makes this medium so
compelling is that you're putting people in a place they
can't get to or access to someone they don't normally have
access to, and you're giving them that intimate experience.
(26:28):
If you lean into this, you don'tneed fancy camera moves.
What you you need as a film, indie film producers, you need
access, right? Take them to the pyramids, take
them to the mangroves in in Florida, take them backstage at
a concert. You know, do like an intimate
solo guitar thing, something that fans will really like, and
(26:49):
then capture it very simply and honestly and authentically.
You know, taking care to pick anenvironment that looks cool and
light it in a way that feels real.
Then I think you're creating compelling content and you're
not spending so much money on stuff that doesn't translate as
well anyway. You know, as you said, it's a
different mindset because you don't have one frame Now you
(27:11):
have, well, you have a huge. Frame I call it unframed media,
right? Right.
So then it's hard. I said lighting.
I mean, that's one thing that just came to my mind right now.
Light in that case would be a different.
Challenging. You got to.
Concentrate different way. You have to think completely or
as you said, what's on the framewhen taking the everything's on
the frame. So yeah, you know it's going to
(27:32):
be. Hard.
That's the hard part. Like honestly, now the computer
stuff like you can learn that, you know, there's a lot of
tutorials and a lot of videos and a lot of there's a vibrant
community of people who will tell you the right settings to
use. They'll they'll tell you the
computers to get, they'll, they'll have the workflows that
you can do. I've done a number of those
videos. I have some stuff coming out
(27:53):
soon that like dives really deepon some specifics that I think
is going to be very helpful for folks.
But it really does come down to all your pre production.
And like if you're a indie film producer who likes to fly by the
seat of their pants and make it up like improv jazz, immersive
is not that medium. It is much more like filming an
IMAX movie, you know, where you need, you need a lot of planning
(28:16):
and prep and careful craftsmanship to make the best
work. And that's why I love it because
I'm a little bit not like a fly by the seat of my pants kind of
person. I am a, I'm the guy that like
before we go on a family road trip, I'm like making like
detailed lists and like, we're going to stop here.
And, you know, I always leave a little bit of room for improv,
but I, I like to feel prepared and I get joy in that.
(28:38):
I like that. That's, that's, that's how I
like to operate. So immersive kind of feels like
home for me because it's like, it's very technical.
It it requires an expert level of craftsmanship.
So if somebody wants to work with your company, what would
you offer? What do you offer as a company?
Do I come to you as a producer and asking for help to create
(28:58):
that for me or you guys create that?
You know that idea Let's you have an idea for a movie right
now get 360 or or a shot. Do I contact your company for
you to create it for us or you help us create it?
You know, we work at a lot of different levels at Light Sail
and we've tried not to really close the door on too many of
them because, you know, immersive is small and I think
(29:20):
there's a lot of things that arestill being innovative on and
we're trying to lead at the forefront of that.
So there's a couple ways that you can work with us.
The 1st is at the very basic. We're just a good services
company like you need A to process your footage, you need
talented artists to do visual effects work and your online and
your color grade and you need tosolve those technological
(29:40):
hurdles. You can hire us to do that.
We can be the photochem of VR, right?
That's pretty cut and dry. We have rates for sending out an
operator to supervise on your set.
We have rates for setting a livepreview rig so you can see where
you're shooting. We have rates for the dailies,
processing for post work, all that stuff.
And that's like a standard rate card.
(30:01):
That's one way that we work and we do that with a number of
companies. But we're I think we add a lot
more value is when we are more deeply integrated in your
production as like a Co producer.
So you're gonna need a film maker.
You have an idea. Let's say you have a contact
with like and a great relationship with, you know,
someone who has some marketing pull and you're like, hey, I
(30:21):
think this story about this artist would be really amazing
and immersive. You know, we come in and we can
help creatively help you tell that story.
And that's where I do a lot of my work personally is I work
with some some big film directors and some creative
folks who say, Hey, I have this artist, I want to tell this
story. I think it'll be really great
and immersive. And I go, great, I'm going to
(30:44):
partner with you. You're going to tell me your
idea and what you want to evoke.And I'm going to make sure that
that translates and immersive. And sometimes it works really
well, but sometimes they're like, I want to evoke this.
And normally what they would do is they would move the camera or
do this crazy zoom thing or someframed storytelling technique.
(31:04):
That's where I come in as the VRsupervisor and I say, hey, I
love this concept in Immersive. We might approach it this way
because this will give you that same narrative thing.
I'll give you a really good example.
The close up narratively, when you cut to a close up in a
framed piece of media, you're really trying to get behind the
soul of the person deep into their eyes.
(31:25):
You're trying to get that real emotional connective tissue.
One way you can do that an immersive since there isn't a
close up, there's no like framedreally close up moment.
One way you can do that is have your character look directly
down the barrel of the lens, because narratively this is
doing the exact same thing because you're looking directly
into the audience and the audience feels like they're
(31:45):
there, they're seeing behind that person's eyes, they're
getting an intimate connection moment, they're feeling seen in
the space. And that delivers that same
narrative like task as a close up would in a traditional framed
piece of media. That's a different.
Perspective. The way you see it, I mean.
Exactly with your. Experience.
Wow. So that's that's amazing.
(32:05):
That's a cool thing that you're both a creator and a technical
guy, right? So you're not just a programmer
that knows how to program and create VR, but you have to be
creative also, because that's something that somebody that's
tech savvy wouldn't understand, right?
They wouldn't understand what you just said.
So that's amazing. Yeah, it's a cool.
I mean, I've always been a technical dude.
(32:25):
I always love noodling with computers and editing and all
that stuff. But yeah, I went to film school
to be a director. I spent a lot of my time pre
College in the theater, you know, studying that.
And I, I just, I live at that intersection of art and science,
art and technology that I reallylove. 11 Last question just to
cover everything here, one big problem that everybody has as a
(32:48):
producer, as a as a film that inthe city, stuff like that is
financial. We're struggling.
Everybody's struggling, not we because I'm not representing
anybody Everybody that creates content struggles with finance,
right? They can't get people to
finance. You have to, you know, really
fight and and try to prove yourself.
How easy is it with this, which is a smaller market and
(33:11):
something that a lot of people that might be able to find is
you might not even understand ormight not even heard of or have
a wrong idea about it right. It's.
Almost impossible. It's a miracle anything gets
made. To be quite honest, The finance
conversation is the most important conversation we can
have in this media. It is because we're at a
(33:32):
crossroads, not just for immersive, but for all of
entertainment. And the problem with immersive
is there's not a is not a fall back to cover up the sins of
this changing world. And the reality is is, you know,
televisions is rocky right now, but still has revenue streaming
(33:53):
sources of advertising dollars coming in through traditional
broadcast networks, which are still despite like broadcast TV
is dying. And yes, I would say it's
declining and the the data showsthat, but it's still bringing in
a phenomenal amount of revenue into the studios.
OK. And it's hiding from that.
Same thing with like ticket sales for movies.
Yeah, less people are going to see the movies, but like they've
(34:13):
just to increase the price of the tickets and they're still
bringing in stuff. Mersive sits at this like unique
position where we we don't really have ticket sales.
EOD is not really a thing. There's no advertising in VR
headsets, so there's no ads being sold against it.
So what is the economy here? How are creators getting paid
for their work? What is if you're an investor
(34:35):
and you're like, why should I put $1,000,000 in this project?
Will I make my money back? I would say to you, no, you
won't. I hate being that way, but I'm a
realist. Like so many people pitch us
ideas and they're like, yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna make
all this money and I go. Have you crunched the numbers?
I have a dear friend who published a piece on Vision Pro
and they've told me that they couldn't even buy me a lunch
(34:57):
with how much money they've madeon their on their project.
And that's sad because it's one of the best pieces I've ever
seen. I think it's creatively really
amazing. And how they got it made was
through government grants because they're telling impact
stories, they're telling historical stories.
And I think they're, you know, Ithink that's the folks who have
been taking a chance on this is visionaries who have an excess
(35:18):
of cash or they want to do something because they want to
add to humanity. They think that what they're
making is actually elevating thehuman experience.
And I think that's important. And I applaud and love those
people. But if we don't figure out the
economy of media soon, I'm very worried for for storytelling.
Let me be honest, storytelling is it is an innate to human
(35:42):
beings as eating throughout the history of human existence, it
has been like put food on the table, tell a story and you can
find this cave drawings way backwhen the first computer that was
invented in the the 1940s, it took a whole room.
It was like crunching numbers and somebody came in and said, I
wonder can I make this play music or do a game?
(36:04):
Can I tell a story with this? Creativity is what makes us
human and we can't support economy of those willing to
share their stories and lift us all up.
Then then I'm afraid for what that future world looks like.
So, yeah, what would I think a lot of kinds about that in there
(36:25):
and a lot of conversations I have with people is that because
I just said, I mean, we feel that we're changing like a is in
our life now and things are getting better and more
technical advanced, right? But as you said, when it comes
to finance, I mean, we see it every day.
It's extremely hard. Competition is huge.
Access to media is easy. But finding somebody to fund
(36:47):
that right now is harder, right?In the past, it means create a
movie. You had to be in the big studio.
You had have, you know, a gigantic crew.
Now you can do something nice when a small crew, not a lot of
money, but how do you make one day?
How do you survive? And yeah, I mean, that's
something that with this technology, I'm guessing it's
even harder because it's something new the.
Cost of production is too high, right?
(37:08):
And we know that, but like it just takes a lot of time to do
this stuff like of. Course.
Definitely, we just did 2D. Special equipment, right And
yeah, we just. Exported A2D film and it took
like 5 minutes and it's like that same length of a movie in
VR takes 3 hours right on the same computer.
I I. I'm a technical guy too, so I
understand completely. I mean just saving those files
(37:28):
as you said, having storage and saving, moving those files for
everything. If they're not in the same area,
you have to transport them or orsend them.
I mean, that's just a headache. A huge headache, yeah.
But I think. Hats off.
I mean, for you fighting that asit's amazing.
The way I see it is more like, I'm guessing blackumentarians,
right? Yeah, creating a documentary,
it's not always something that sells to the masses, but you can
(37:50):
find people to fund it because they love the story.
They love the the specific things you're talking about.
You're showing, right? Yeah.
And I think that's the big thingis like maybe we're moving
towards a world where we find a bunch of very passionate people
who are very into your story andthey're financing it that way.
Like how are we getting people involved in the stories they
(38:11):
want to tell earlier to help make these stories happen?
And I think we're seeing that with like things like
Kickstarter, right? Like there's already like game
companies who live and die on Kickstarter because they will
pre sell their whole game to their fan base ahead of time and
that's how they make their revenue for the year.
Can we do that with film, or at least immersive?
Is it OK that we have a smaller but very dedicated audience for
(38:34):
things? Because the power of this format
is incredible. I've met people who can't tell
you what they ate for breakfast that morning, but they can tell
you every detail of an immersivefilm they saw four months ago.
It's more of a yeah, the way they resonated with a specific
product. Nice.
That's amazing. So.
So we got all this information and so amazing all the stuff
(38:55):
you're doing and, and all the productions you're working with
and that's just amazing. Congratulations all your work.
Thank you. And good luck in the future.
My next question would be in oneof the last ones.
It would be how do you see your company in next?
I don't want to say five years because nobody can predict in
more that far away. But what are your future plans?
What would you what are you working on creating or you know,
(39:17):
how would you like to see your company, you know, move on.
Yeah, so. We, we talk about this daily.
We, we will continue to be the company that helps people make
great content. And I think that we found a
really nice home in collaborating with some of the
best companies and production companies in the world and the
highest and talent to bring the their stories into this new
technology space. And we'll continue doing that.
(39:38):
But I think going forward the next couple of years, we've
gotten some ideas of our own that we want to kind of produce.
So I'm hoping to get some of those projects off the ground.
I'm hoping to add creatively to the voice.
And what I really want to do is I really want to solve two
things in particular. I want to figure out how I can
help solve discoverability of this few things and get
audiences to pick up that headset daily and jump into it
(40:01):
to see something. And I think the one off stuff is
great. And we've innovative a lot, but
we need to start forming a habitwith audiences.
And that means that they need tostart expecting like something
new is going to drop daily and like that and it's going to be
worth their time and energy to escape the real world for 5:10,
20-30 minutes and experience. That's a lot to ask of someone.
(40:23):
It's a lot of responsibility on me to create content that is
good enough to demand that amount of attention and time for
somebody. So that's really what I want to
focus on is I want to create that amount of content at that
quality level that audiences go.This is worth it for me.
And I'm sure you're going to do it and if wherever we can help
and we would like to promote. So just keep us posted with all
(40:45):
your information. So if somebody wants to find out
more about your company, how canyou do it?
Besides your website, how else can you communicate with you?
Yeah, the best way place to findme if you want to talk VR or
immersive video or nerd about cameras, which I always love to
do, is hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there.
That's my social platform of choice.
And or you can just shoot me an e-mail mattmatt@lightsailvr.com.
(41:09):
I try to be pretty open and available for folks.
I'm a big evangelist of this andwe're all trying to make great
stories together. We're going to have all your
information on the website and on the show so people can find
you. Our goal is also if we can help
you. I mean, I like what you're
doing. Thank you.
And I never see anybody as a competitor, more CM as a
collaborator. And I like to work with
everybody. A rising.
(41:29):
Tide lifts all exactly. Yeah, I might start using that
too. I'm not going to copy it, but
well, it's just amazing, to be honest.
I like creators like that. And if we have more people like
you actually in the business because the business would have
been better, right? Just to say that.
OK, thank you very much for being here.
I'm sure we're going to have more.
We're going to have you as a guest again, because we have so
(41:51):
many things. You have so many things to talk
about and we have so many questions.
I mean, we try to cover a littlebit of everything.
And I think we got the the very good idea of the industry and
the technology. But as you said, it needs to be
promoted more and we would definitely try to do our best to
help whatever we can and promoteit.
That's amazing. Thanks so much for having me.
(42:13):
Thanks for joining us on Film, Tech and finance.
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