January 25, 2026 • 42 mins
What happens when the life you were told to want feels lifeless?
In this episode, Veronica continues sharing her story—the unraveling of a traditional marriage, confronting the verbal abuse that damaged her self-esteem, and the fierce freedom that followed when she stopped living by rules that never fit.
Veronica began questioning everything: monogamy, desire, loyalty, and the quiet shame women are taught to carry around their wants. Liberation followed.
Through deeply personal stories—including long-term lovers, falling for a married man, and a spontaneous threesome in Ireland that still makes her swoon—Veronica explores what it really means to choose happiness over society's approval.
This is a conversation about:
- Why “doing everything right” can feel unbearable
- How a woman's desire gets framed differently than a man's
- And what freedom can look like when you stop asking for permission
This episode isn’t about right or wrong. It’s about telling the truth—and letting that be enough.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marvin (00:53):
I came at a point in my life where I had done things the
best I could.
I had toed, the line in terms oftrying to be the marital, you
know, husband that I wassupposed to be.
Mm-hmm.
I slowly got more and moredepressed to the point that I
was suicidal.
I came out of.
The hospital.
'cause I was hospitalized in apsych hospital.
(01:15):
Suicidal.
I was on suicide watch, had aroommate who was in there
because he was in love with twowomen and he was so torn up
about it that he didn't knowwhat to do.
He was just gonna kill himself.
And I was like, God put thisperson as my roommate in this
hospital because I was like, ohwow.
I'm not the only person that hasthe capacity to.
You know, love more than oneperson.
But anyway, I came out of thatwhole experience with a decision
(01:41):
that I'm like, okay, I havespent this much time in my life
trying to be right.
Veronica (01:47):
Right.
Marvin (01:48):
And that has clearly not served me.
I've only become more and moremiserable, so I'm gonna.
Exit that strategy.
That is a failed strategy for mein my life, and I'm gonna figure
out how to be happy.
And if it's wrong, air quotes,then it's wrong.
Veronica (02:05):
Can we just point out that nobody even knows where
this right and Wrong came from?
Mm-hmm.
Oh, like who in society createdthis right way to do things and
wrong way to do things?
Yeah.
Because in my mind and what I'velearned and What I've kind of
started to feel is that, we'renot meant to be monogamous.
(02:27):
Mm-hmm.
I wholeheartedly feel like.
We're not meant to bemonogamous.
Yeah.
And I say that.
Not to say that we can't beright.
We can right.
If that's personally how we feelwith somebody.
That this person is fulfillingmy needs to the fullest.
I don't need to, Find anythingelsewhere.
But if we all just sat here anddecided, okay.
(02:49):
I like having sex with this oneperson.
It's great.
I'm gonna date them or I'm gonnamarry them, and then all of a
sudden you're still having sexwith this person.
It's still great, but otherneeds aren't being fulfilled
well then what?
Because you just committedyourself into this monogamous
situation or marriage orrelationship or whatever.
Marvin (03:11):
Yeah.
Veronica (03:11):
Now you're fucking miserable.
Marvin (03:13):
Yeah.
Veronica (03:13):
Then you start to take it out on this person, so now
you're resentful.
Right?
So now, not only did you ruinthis situation where the sex was
good.
But you've created thishostility between you and this
person.
Mm-hmm.
Which should have never evencome about.
Right?
We put so much pressure onourselves and the person that
we're with Yeah.
To fulfill everything.
(03:33):
Everything.
Marvin (03:34):
Yes.
Veronica (03:35):
It's impossible.
Yeah, it's impossible.
Yeah.
So again, I say that not to saythat you can't be monogamous
'cause there's people out therethat are monogamous, right?
Absolutely.
But do you not think that theydon't see somebody that they
find attractive and, anddaydream about or, or think of
different things about doingsomething with them,
Marvin (03:54):
right?
Veronica (03:54):
No, they do.
Marvin (03:55):
Yeah, So
Veronica (03:56):
This the spot that we're in now.
Marvin (03:58):
Mm-hmm.
I love it.
We're in a new spot, y'all.
We're in, we're in a
Veronica (04:01):
new spot.
Listeners.
We're in a new spot, I had anencounter with a man who I now
still sleep with.
It is a little over four yearsnow.
Still very much infatuated withthis man.
Our sex is still amazing.
we have nothing else.
Marvin (04:19):
Nothing.
Veronica (04:19):
It is literally just a sexual situation.
Marvin (04:22):
Yeah.
Veronica (04:22):
We do not I'll come back to recent, but from the
moment we started sleepingtogether, which we, I brought a
blanket.
It was in the middle of thenight.
3:00 AM We are in the field andlive it.
Yeah.
We had deer watching us.
It got creepy but.
we fucked really good.
It was great.
Dick huge.
The gentleman is extremelyattractive.
(04:44):
Just, ugh.
He's just gorgeous.
Yeah.
Like a fucking Greek God.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
But personality wise andcommunication wise, he's awful.
Mm.
So we don't we don't talk.
Mm-hmm.
It, it's a text.
Yo.
I'm like, what's up?
Tonight, question mark.
Okay.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Okay.
We did that and we've been doingthat for four years.
(05:07):
After the second year, thecondoms came off.
We were having sex raw, noprotection.
I have an IUD, so I can't getpregnant.
Marvin (05:14):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (05:15):
there was an assumption or there was an
understanding that, okay, we'redoing this, we're sleeping with
just each other.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
obviously.
I slept with just him, but I hadmy one or two random because I
found these random menattractive.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, let me, let metest the waters.
It was never any better thanwhat I already had.
Yeah.
It wasn't good.
(05:35):
But I tried it.
I'm like, okay, I fulfilled thatneed.
Yeah.
There was a need there.
Always used protection.
Mm-hmm.
Wanted to see what it was like.
Yeah.
Solid.
Not good.
Right.
Great.
Still have my main guy.
Yeah.
During that second year,somebody from my past who I
found extremely attractive, whoI was obsessed with at one of my
jobs, he would come in, he wasmy regular.
(05:56):
Mm-hmm.
But I was married.
I never cheated.
I never cheated.
I never went with those feelingsthat I had.
He was married as well, but.
I feel like if I had taken thesteps back then It'd be
different now.
So second year into sleepingwith the gentleman that I met
here at this wonderful spot, Isaw the guy that I'd known for
(06:17):
forever right here.
Oh wow.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Saw him, hadn't seen him inforever.
He was with his kids.
I was with mine.
I was like hi, how are you?
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Still as fine as could fuckingbe.
Yeah.
He's a little bit older than me,my guy I've been sleeping with
is younger than me.
He's about six years youngerthan me.
And he was like, man, we need tocatch up.
(06:37):
Let's, you know, let's get somedrinks or some lunch or
something.
Let's catch up.
Mm-hmm.
Great.
Perfect.
That's all.
Never thought anything of it,but that texted him a couple
times, took him a minute to textme back.
Nothing really came about that.
And then it was a long timeafter that.
It had to been like six months,seven months.
I get a friend request onSnapchat.
Oh.
And we all know,
Marvin (06:58):
oh yeah, right.
Let's
Veronica (06:59):
Snapchat is used for Okay.
Marvin (07:03):
You're like, I see you.
I
Veronica (07:04):
see you.
So that was my end.
That was my, oh hey.
Mm-hmm.
My door's open.
Come in.
Mm-hmm.
So the difference with this man,and the first one, this man is
married.
The one that I've been sleepingwith for four years is very
single.
unlike the engaged gentlemanfrom the first story I hate this
(07:25):
man's fucking wife.
I do not like her.
She is a cunt, the purestdefinition of one.
She is stuck up.
she just treats people likeshit.
She looks down on them'cause shecomes from money.
Yeah.
Get that.
Great.
Be bougie all you want to.
Right.
But she also tries to, be, Idon't know how to say it, be
down with the culture orsomething, because her husband
(07:46):
is black.
But he has created this wholedifferent persona of himself
because of who he married andthe status they have and You can
tell he's very uncomfortable incertain situations.
Marvin (07:58):
Oh, gotcha.
So he had to create somethingthat wasn't authentic for him?
Yes.
In order to fit in her world.
Fit in the world, yes.
I see.
Got it.
Veronica (08:05):
And he is the type who, they were, they dated in
college.
He got her pregnant.
He did not wanna be a statistic.
And he said, okay, let's marry,let's get married.
So they did that.
Gotcha.
Fast forward to us.
He hit me up, said the rightthings, I said things back.
He shows up to my house andwe've been in love ever since.
In love.
(08:25):
Yeah.
In love.
Yeah.
And I have loved a lotthroughout my life.
I've loved.
I've been in love.
I've just simply loved.
I have been, I have friends thatI love very much.
Mm-hmm.
So with him, it was supposed tobe what I had been doing since I
got divorced.
Savage Cutthroat.
(08:46):
We fucked during this time.
You get nothing else.
We don't need to conversate.
I don't want to go, I don't wantany more dates.
I want nothing else.
This man brought the wholepackage.
He is caring and loving andwants to take care of me and
wants to see me be successfuland Yeah.
It's crazy because in the onlything wrong is he will not leave
her.
Until his kids are out of thehouse.
(09:07):
So I said, okay.
Then I'm single.
You're married.
We're fucking, that's how it'sgonna be.
Yeah.
So I kept, my guy who I've beensleeping with for four years
mm-hmm.
Because I knew he had his wifeonly fair.
Mm-hmm.
Only fair.
Mm-hmm.
So, Yeah.
So I'm still talking to both ofthem.
And we're four and three yearsinto it.
And my four year guy.
I just found out he's had agirlfriend.
(09:29):
For half the time.
Mm-hmm.
That we've been sleepingtogether.
And I was like, that's fuckedup.
Because not only did we assume,or we stated that we were just
gonna sleep with each other.
Mm-hmm.
You have not only had agirlfriend over the past,
however many.
Months or whatever, significantamount of time.
But you've been taking women ondates, you've been sleeping
around, but yet you've beensleeping with me two to three
(09:50):
times a week.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
Consistently.
For four years.
I was like, bro, that's reallyfucked up.
But cool.
'cause if I told you what I wasdoing you would get mad too.
Marvin (10:01):
Yeah.
Veronica (10:02):
But I don't, because again, it's not my business to
tell him.
Yeah.
So.
The married man.
What's crazy about that is wehave multiple spots.
Oh, throughout our little, okay
Marvin (10:13):
there.
I love it.
Yeah.
So you drive around and you'relike right there.
So we're,
Veronica (10:17):
yeah, we're like, okay.
Behind the Wendy's.
Marvin (10:20):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (10:21):
At that office building.
Marvin (10:22):
Oh yes.
Mm-hmm.
That is a parking lot.
A good spot.
Veronica (10:25):
Great spot.
Marvin (10:26):
I've not yet myself, but you.
But I have many times been backthere and thought this is a good
spot.
Great
Veronica (10:32):
spot.
It is Great spot.
We do that one.
There's one over by the soccerfields down that road.
Oh, okay.
And there's a small the startthe car.
Let's go.
Okay.
Marvin (10:42):
I think I actually, I'm wondering
Veronica (10:44):
if it's the same spot.
Well,
Marvin (10:46):
I don't, so I'm not even sure if there's a spot like what
I'm thinking.
But I'll tell you the spot thatI'm thinking and I've wondered
about that area.
So, I mean, one of the thingsthat's intriguing to me about,
because you're talking about,about the soccer fields
Veronica (10:59):
Yeah.
Marvin (10:59):
So, I mean, bucket listing for me for sure is, you
know, roads that are right bythe interstate.
Veronica (11:06):
Yeah.
Marvin (11:06):
Cars driving by, you know?
Yes.
And of course driving way toofast to actually see you, but
man, you see them, right?
Veronica (11:13):
Yes.
Marvin (11:13):
So, I mean, that road is right by an interstate.
And I've thought, man, there'sgotta be like a really good spot
to just be like right there andboom, you know?
Yeah.
And they just drive by andyou're like,
Veronica (11:27):
Uhhuh.
Marvin (11:28):
Yeah.
Veronica (11:29):
I've done it in the bathroom of the airport parking
garage.
Marvin (11:33):
Oh, amazing.
Veronica (11:34):
Yeah.
That was fun.
But this spot, yeah, this is sorandom and honestly, it just,
you know, he's married, so he'sgot.
Sneak outta the house, pretendhe is going to the gym.
Right.
And meet me at whatever spot wecan come up with.
Or he'll sneak into my houselike you did yesterday, yeah,
right.
Knock it out and leave.
(11:55):
Gotcha.
But you know, all of this, Ihave great stories.
I've messed with many men.
over the past five years.
And I, you know, I'm not ashamedof it.
I love that.
I'll tell my truth to whoever'swilling to listen or mm-hmm.
Who needs to hear some thingslike that, women wise.
Because if a man asks me for abody count, I hate that
(12:18):
question.
don't ask me that.
Because when I tell you, andwhen I speak my truth about my
story, you are going to have a.
preconceived notion.
Because I'm gonna give you anumber that you think isn't
proper.
Or you think is unacceptable.
But again, that's
Marvin (12:37):
our society.
Thank you for breaking that quefor that particular point down
because I've had, I've had otherwomen say that they hate that
question.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, for me, the thingabout that question is, I come
from obviously a different placethan what they've experienced
around that number.
Because I get excited about thenumber.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, I wannacelebrate whatever the number
(12:58):
is, because to whatever degreethat it defies and breaks the
rules about what it should be.
Mm-hmm.
When it's just not Yeah.
The numbers are way off in termsof what the expectations are.
The rules are, right.
Veronica (13:13):
What's acceptable
Marvin (13:14):
for men
Veronica (13:14):
what's acceptable for women.
Marvin (13:16):
like if a woman is like, this is my number I just.
Fantasize and dream about a daywhen women could be on an
interview, on a major talk show.
And say their number
Veronica (13:30):
right.
Marvin (13:30):
Instead of it being like what you said of Yeah.
People automatically are gonnago, oh, that number's too high.
Veronica (13:37):
You're a slut.
Marvin (13:38):
Yeah.
Veronica (13:39):
You're ran through.
Marvin (13:40):
Or that your worth is somehow less.
Yes,
Veronica (13:42):
yes.
Marvin (13:43):
Because there's this idea that, oh, well, yeah, so
Veronica (13:45):
You can't be a wife to this one.
Right.
No one
Marvin (13:48):
No one could ever want you.
And I just believe that there isa future time when that
materializes is just not true.
Veronica (13:57):
Right.
Why am I looked at as somethingdifferent?
Yeah.
I love my sexuality.
Yeah.
I enjoy my experiences.
Yeah.
There have been some that I wishI didn't have.
'cause they were not fuckinggood.
It wasn't worth it.
It wasn't worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But at the same time, again,it's an experience.
It's an adventure.
It's something you'refulfilling, something that you
(14:17):
had a need to fulfill.
Like why are we denying ourneeds?
If you see, if you see a man ora woman that you find attractive
and they find you attractive andy'all are interested in each
other, why not bang it out?
Absolutely, because we don't seea future with them.
That's the issue.
Or because they've been withhowever many people, that's a
(14:37):
problem.
That's crazy to me.
Marvin (14:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
I 100% agree with you.
I think the permission that youjust spoke, if that were to
somehow be embodied across theplanet.
and I mean, and some people aregonna be like, that's not for
me.
Great, great.
Veronica (14:51):
Absolutely.
But that's perfectly fine.
Marvin (14:53):
Yeah.
But like, but there's peoplethat it is absolutely for
mm-hmm.
And if they had that permission,you know, without shame.
Veronica (15:00):
Yes.
Marvin (15:01):
what would the world look like?
Happy, happy.
Veronica (15:03):
How
Marvin (15:03):
much, like happy less people like raging in traffic
would there be, you know?
Yeah.
They'd be happy.
Veronica (15:09):
cause they'd be like, you know what, you're cute.
Here's my number.
Well, let's fuck later.
Yeah.
And not be ashamed about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I have another story.
I have a guy who, I just love, Ilove him.
Mm-hmm.
I love him.
Mm-hmm.
This is, this is somebody who Iwill be friends with probably.
Until the day I die.
Mm-hmm.
he was literally one of in myprime.
2019, the end of 2019, I wascoming home from Paris.
(15:33):
I keep in mind I got divorcedthe beginning of 2019.
Yeah.
And I was trapped during mywhole marriage.
I loved to travel.
I love to go to differentplaces.
So I was coming home from Paris.
I had seen a guy on Facebookeight months prior to that.
Fine.
Just, ugh.
Beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
Just good looking dude.
Hit him up.
He wasn't interested.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, he was, he was in themiddle of a separation.
(15:53):
He had been separated from hisex-wife or his wife for three
years.
He wasn't into dating whateverelse.
I'm like, okay, great.
Let's just be friends.
We chatted up a couple times onFacebook.
Then he saw me, he actuallyreally saw me in my posts from
Paris.
And started paying attention tothings I was saying and
Marvin (16:10):
mm-hmm.
Veronica (16:11):
You know, he said, you know, when you come back.
Told him when I came back, hesaid, okay, let's link up.
I said, perfect.
'cause this is all I want.
He was like, great.
Didn't realize that.
I said, yeah, I didn't wannadate you.
I don't know.
You like that?
Yeah, I don't date.
Yeah.
After the first two times, meand him hooked up, it turned
into gab sessions to where wewere having sex and sitting down
and having conversations forhours because he felt seen.
(16:34):
Yeah.
But not only did he feel seen.
I felt seen and he did not judgeme for what I had going on.
My roster, my mindset, thesavagery of me cutting men off
when I was done with him.
Yeah, he applauded me.
And loved that.
He was like, you're not crazy,are you?
I'm like, absolutely not.
(16:55):
He was like, you're not gonnafall in love with me.
And then like.
Come back around and go nuts onme.
I was like, no.
Sorry.
If that's happened to youbefore, I am completely
different.
Marvin (17:03):
Right.
Veronica (17:03):
I've heard a lot of times I'm the exception to the
rule.
Oh.
But I don't wanna be, I wantwomen to feel comfortable in
doing what I do or doing whatthey feel like they wanna do.
Yeah.
So with this gentleman, oh, itjust worked out beautifully.
Four months into it, he gets aphone call from his ex and she
wants to work things out withhim.
Mm-hmm.
Within the four months.
And me and him were.
Doing what we were doing.
(17:23):
I learned of his love for hiswife and the things that he had
gone through with her and hisinfidelities in earlier years of
their marriage.
And they had two beautiful younggirls together and he was outta
the military and there was a lotof things that he shared with
me.
We shared a lot of stuff witheach other.
So for me, I was actually thefirst person he called to say,
(17:46):
Hey, so and so called me.
My ex-wife called me and wantsto work things out.
I'm like, fucking amazing.
Great.
This is what you've beenwanting, right?
He was like, yes, but, and wordfor word I can't let you go.
And I said, you know, Iunderstand you don't wanna let
me go, as in I'm easy.
listen, we have great sex.
(18:07):
There's no drama.
I understand that's somethingthat people strive to have the
people in relationships striveto have, and we're not even in
relationship.
And this is something that is,it's hard to find.
I said, but I know how much youlove your wife.
I know this is what you want.
So you have to let me go in asense of we cannot sleep
(18:28):
together until you have figuredout what you wanna do with your
wife.
He was understanding, I wasunderstanding.
We talked, it was COVID again,beginning of COVID.
they jumped back into somethingthey probably shouldn't have.
They got stuck in an apartmenttogether with their girls and it
imploded because they didn't dothe work that needed to be done
to save their marriage.
all the whole time I'm stillthere.
(18:48):
He's still wanting to get headand fuck when he needed to
release and that wasunderstandable.
So I did what I needed to do andwhat he needed from me.
we gave to each other what weneeded.
we're on what, five years intoit.
we haven't slept together forover a year, two years.
Two years I think.
and that was just one occasionthat we slept together and we
(19:11):
hadn't slept together a yearbefore that.
So we grew this bond, and I'llnever forget.
When he messaged me and he said,I love you and I was like, wait,
what?
And I called him and he waslike, I knew that was gonna
freak you out.
I'm like, no, I just wanna makesure we're on the same page
here.
So it wasn't an I love you thatI wanna be with you.
(19:32):
It wasn't I love you because youare there for me when I need to
be.
So, I loved him too.
I love him still.
And I am getting to the goodpart, I promise.
Marvin (19:42):
Oh no, this is all fantastic.
Right.
I'll love every bit of this.
Veronica (19:45):
He ended up, him and his wife ended up splitting
again because they just, youknow, they just didn't do the
work that they needed to do.
Yeah.
they jumped back into it.
I knew it was gonna happen, butthey just needed to figure it
out.
They end up getting divorced.
They finally got divorced.
we took a trip to Vegastogether.
Okay.
and the trip to Vegas was almostlike a farewell trip for him
(20:07):
because he had taken a joboverseas.
Oh, wow.
And I wasn't gonna see him forquite some time.
So we were really sad aboutthat.
So we took this trip to Vegas.
In our minds and what we kepttalking about, we were like,
yeah, we need to have athreesome because I'd never had
a threesome before.
Oh, okay.
And cool.
So we were just talking about itand looking and we had a great
(20:28):
time, don't get me wrong.
I met a pimp, did not know itwas a pimp at the time.
Glad that I didn't do anythingwith him.
'cause who would've known whatthe fuck would've happened,
right.
That shit was wild, figured out.
It was a pimp.
Later on once we got home and Icalled my buddy that I went with
and I was like.
Bro.
The guy that you pulled me awayfrom was a whole ass pimp.
Can't believe it.
(20:48):
So crazy.
So we laughed about that, butthat trip in Vegas, we had such
a fucking blast.
We had such a good time.
We had great sex.
We like, we dove into each otherlike we had never done before,
right?
He had told me about this girlthat he was sleeping with.
That, had fallen for him.
And I said, you know, hey, youcan't do what you do with me
(21:11):
with other women because theywill not understand, oh, you'll
turn it here.
They will not understand, norwill it be the same, because
what we have is different.
Again, exception to the rule.
I do things differently becauseI have found myself, I have, I
have learned that what I wantand what I wanna do.
So just literally right there.
Marvin (21:32):
listeners.
Hey, listeners, we are coming toanother spot.
What condominiums are just rightthere.
We're in a little parking lotnext to a condominium.
Veronica (21:42):
it's a little office space
Marvin (21:43):
But there's like residences around.
Mm-hmm.
And all these families doingtheir thing, having no idea.
The Veronica is being a naughty,naughty.
Nearby.
Veronica (21:53):
Nearby.
And you know what's crazy isthat we would literally just
open the car door and standright there.
Marvin (22:00):
Oh, nice.
Yes.
Out and let the air, let the air
Veronica (22:02):
flow and just be, it'd be dark, but we didn't care.
Yeah.
It was where we needed to bebecause he was married and
Gotcha.
We had to get it in Uhhuh, butback to my guy in Vegas.
So what's crazy is we, we setthis expectation for ourselves,
to have a threesome.
Okay.
It was very much talked about,right?
Yeah.
Talked about it.
We looked for'em, looked forgirls.
(22:24):
It didn't work.
Didn't work.
We definitely enjoyed ourselves.
We enjoyed being with eachother.
We had a great hotel room.
We fucked in front of thewindow.
Just so people could see if theycould, that was enjoyable for
us.
Marvin (22:35):
Yeah.
Exciting,
Veronica (22:36):
lingerie, whatever else.
Marvin (22:37):
because it's like, you know that they see you, but they
don't know who you are, butyou're Yeah.
They're like, who are thosepeople?
They're binocular.
Yeah.
This is great.
Veronica (22:44):
Yeah.
Let's, let's watch the show.
You know, putting on a show,it's an excitement.
It's exciting.
So that I absolutely, I feltcomfortable doing that with him.
I loved doing that with him.
We filmed it.
We have video of it.
We keep it, both of us.
what's crazy is that.
Three weeks later he left.
He was gone, for about six orseven months.
he came back.
Things were different As theyare when there's time in
(23:05):
between.
And you don't get to be physicalwith somebody.
Still very much loved him.
He very much loved me.
We talked, we very good friends.
And I think, you know, hisfriendship with his ex-wife, he
was trying to build on thefriendship'cause that was his
best friend.
And even though they weredivorced, he still wanted to
keep a good co-parentingrelationship.
But the crazy thing was.
(23:26):
we didn't sleep with each otheranymore after that.
We saw each other.
When he came home.
We decided not to, it justwasn't for us anymore.
We still very much talked allthe time.
Right.
And then I decided, I love ChrisBrown, one of my favorite
artists.
Yeah.
Okay.
This is a little random.
No.
I decided when his tour droppeduk.
(23:46):
I'm like, I'm going.
I wanna go.
Yeah.
Are you kidding me?
Right.
Different country.
Love it.
Yeah.
YOLO show shows here in theStates.
No, thank you.
Yeah.
Shows in different countries,Absolutly, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I bought tickets.
To Ireland.
Wow.
To see Chris Brown.
Yeah.
Three tickets, because I'm like,okay, I'm taking two friends.
I know people are gonna wannago.
The tickets were fucking cheap.
(24:06):
I'm like in, in the standingarea by the fucking stage.
Wow.
Amazing.
The whole trip itself costs lessthan two tickets to a show here
in New York.
Wow.
For Chris Brown.
Whole trip.
Wow, that's amazing.
So the people that were supposedto originally go with me
canceled and I offered it to, tomy buddy.
Marvin (24:25):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (24:26):
'cause he's a big fan as well.
I said, Hey look.
I know how to keep my mouthshut.
If you do, if you wanna inviteyour ex-wife,'cause she loved
him, Chris Brown as well.
No, I don't think she'll go forit.
I was like, it's fine.
You invite who you wanna invite,but you're gonna come with me.
We're going, we travel welltogether, let's just fucking go.
Mm-hmm.
So it was supposed to be me, himand a friend of mine.
(24:46):
She canceled last minute.
So I said, it's me and you,babe.
Yeah.
It's me and you.
He was like, I don't care.
That's fine.
Let's go.
It's all we're, you know what?
Let's gift the ticket tosomebody random that we see
there.
Alright, cool.
I said, perfect.
I'm down for that.
Marvin (24:59):
Yeah.
Veronica (24:59):
Our first night there, we wear our comfortable clothes.
We go out, we're fucking barhopping.
Marvin (25:05):
Yeah.
Veronica (25:05):
We run into a bar crawl, which I don't know if you
know what a bar crawl is.
Apparently you just.
Pay mm-hmm.
Marvin (25:11):
To be with a group of people.
I mean, just, and
Veronica (25:14):
then you just go to different bars.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Wasn't this what we were doing?
Yeah.
He was like, no, well, you'rewith a group of people, so it's
cool.
I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
But it was super cheap.
So we're like, all right.
And we get free shots at thedoor of every bar that we go to.
Okay.
And we get drink deals.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm like, okay, cool.
Great.
Both of us.
What, what I think is greatabout both of us is we're, we
(25:35):
are two very friendly people.
We can make friends anywhere.
We can talk to anybody.
Yeah.
So we're talking to these peoplein this huge, just a group of
like 60.
Okay.
And we're just talking to randompeople.
Where are you from?
Where are you from?
we met a gentleman who was fromLondon.
He was hilarious.
So he's hanging with us, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
we get into this bar and mybuddy is talking to this girl
(25:57):
who was from Amsterdam.
Big old, leather jacket on.
She was cool.
She looked Like a break dancer.
Oh, okay.
Cool.
Just the vibe was there.
We're like, oh, that's cool asshit.
Love your outfit.
Marvin (26:09):
Yeah.
Veronica (26:10):
We're just talking it up.
Having a great time.
It's the four of us.
We met these new people.
We're hanging out.
It's all great.
We party until like threeo'clock in the morning.
Only place Open to eat isfucking Burger King in Ireland.
Isn.
That crazy.
Yeah.
we grab an Uber.
'cause we're like, we're gonna,we're gonna head back to our
Airbnb.
we lost our guy.
He left.
(26:30):
We had all talked about meetingup the next day, for brunch.
We wanted to do brunch.
our guy was going to the ChrisBrown concert.
We're like, dude let's meet up.
Let's go there.
And our girl, she wasn't going,we're like.
Marvin (26:41):
Yeah.
Ticket.
Ticket.
How about it?
We have
Veronica (26:43):
an extra ticket.
Do you wanna go?
free ticket?
Mm-hmm.
Meet us, Sarah.
Let's go have brunch.
Let's have lunch.
You know, in the morning.
Then we'll all get dressed andwe'll meet each other there.
Yeah.
She was like, oh my.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Right.
So we go eat, we're eatingdinner at 3, 3 30 in the
morning.
We're like, Hey, where do youstand?
I'm staying at the hostel.
I said that's like five blocksand you're not walking down
(27:03):
there like you wanna share anUber, you wanna come back with
us?
No, it's great when you all comeback with y'all and we can all
go to brunch in the morning.
Cool.
Perfect.
Let's go.
We get back to our Airbnb.
I think I rinsed off.
We all rinsed off because wewere nasty and we get in the
bed, all three of us together inthe bed.
Yeah.
And then she just starts feelingme up.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like.
(27:23):
Perfect.
Yeah, let's go.
Right, because the girl was fineas hell.
Yeah, she was fine as hell.
And we went for at least twohours.
And it was probably the best sexI've ever had.
And it was with a woman.
Oh, I love that.
Right?
Yeah.
That's amazing.
And the best sex I've ever hadwas with a woman.
Yeah.
And she was the second womanthat I had ever been with, the
first woman that I had ever beenwith was a friend of mine who
(27:44):
I'd who, just a random personthat became my friend.
Mm-hmm.
And.
She gave me my first experiencebecause she was like, you've
never been with a woman.
I'm like, yeah, I haven't.
She was like, that'sdisgraceful.
I'm like, I know.
So she fulfilled that dream ofmine and it was fantastic, and I
will love her forever for that.
But this experience with myfriend and this woman was so.
(28:07):
Unprovoked and talked aboutthat, like it was so perfect.
It was not weird.
Everything went smooth,everything was great.
The next morning, none of usacted weird.
We went and had brunch with ourbuddy that we met the night
before.
Mm-hmm.
And then we go to this concertand we are all so loving with
each other.
And what's crazy is at thisconcert, you know, we're, we're
all standing.
(28:27):
So there's people standingaround us and they're watching
my buddy.
Love on me.
They, there were these women andgirls, or people around us that
were like, y'all together.
I'm like, no.
Oh, and y'all.
Well, we're all here.
Because he would love on me andthen he would love on her.
Mm-hmm.
And she would hug on me and wewould just, it was nothing
inappropriate.
(28:47):
Yeah.
It was just very loving.
Yeah.
And caring.
Marvin (28:50):
Yeah.
Veronica (28:50):
And it was such a great experience, Marvin.
Marvin (28:53):
That
Veronica (28:53):
I still talk to her to this day.
She's in Amsterdam.
Wow.
And this is three years later.
Marvin (28:58):
We
Veronica (28:58):
Yeah.
We still message.
she's got a boyfriend now.
Mm-hmm.
she still wants me to come andvisit and nothing on like a
sexual level.
It's literally a friendshiplevel.
Marvin (29:06):
Yeah.
Veronica (29:07):
But to have that experience, to feel open enough
to do it.
Yeah.
To not be nervous or scaredafter the fact.
To not feel ashamed to be ableto tell my story.
'cause that's fucking awesome.
Yes.
Went to Ireland for Chris Brownand had a threesome.
Yes.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's a great story to tell.
Yes.
Why would I wanna keep that tomyself?
Absolutely.
I should not feel ashamed aboutthat.
Yeah.
I had some of the best sex of mylife.
(29:29):
Yeah.
Her breasts were amazing.
Like I wanna talk about itbecause it was exhilarating, it
was fun, and she's such a greathuman being.
Mm-hmm.
Why can't I talk about it?
Yeah, absolutely.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, that, that was thelast time I had slept with my
buddy.
Mm-hmm.
And he is now back with hiswife.
(29:51):
They're not married, but they'reback together.
And I just think it's beautiful.
Marvin (29:54):
Yeah.
Veronica (29:55):
I try not to interrupt what he's got going on in life.
Marvin (29:58):
Yeah.
Veronica (29:58):
Because I feel like, like you said, there are women
out there who don't condonecertain activities.
Right.
Sure.
Or wouldn't condone mine and hisfriendship mm-hmm.
Because we were sexual.
Mm-hmm.
That's a whole other topic.
Mm-hmm.
That I think is.
Stupid.
Yeah.
I just don't like that.
Because we have a connectionthat, not many people get.
(30:18):
Mm-hmm.
And keep.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we did have a sexualrelationship.
We have such a strong friendshipthough, too.
Mm-hmm.
So that was, that's one of myhighlights of my quote unquote
ho stage uhhuh or whatever.
I love it.
My single life.
Marvin (30:33):
I mean, these are all such good stories.
have you ever heard the wordcompersion before?
No.
I feel like you're gonna lovethis word.
Veronica (30:39):
let me hear it.
Marvin (30:40):
Compersion is my absolute favorite word,
compersion is this word in thepolyamorous community, It's when
you feel genuine joy, happiness,because your partner is having
some kind of experience withsomeone else.
Yeah.
That's com conversion.
Veronica (30:58):
Love it.
Marvin (30:59):
I love it.
Veronica (31:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marvin (31:01):
I mean one of the first times that I felt.
I connected with it in myselfand I was like, I love this
about me I was actually in bedwith someone and she was singing
in her sleep.
Veronica (31:14):
I love it.
Marvin (31:15):
And the reason that she was singing in her sleep is
because somebody else thatbrought that out of her, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
I would not have been able towitness this moment and see this
had I been someone who wasn'tCom conversive and wasn't
encouraging mm-hmm.
For those experiences to happen.
But because I was open to that,I got the opportunity to see.
(31:41):
Her in this state of bliss andjoy and how cool is that?
Yeah.
You know, opened the door for me
Veronica (31:48):
yeah.
Marvin (31:49):
Because, uh, she was singing country music.
Now I am.
Not a country music person.
Veronica (31:54):
Me neither.
Marvin (31:55):
And I'm not gonna be the person that brings that out of
another woman.
Right.
Their excitement and joy atcountry music songs.
I'm never gonna be that guy.
Right.
Okay.
So, but if it's possible for youto.
I'm not saying you,'causeobviously you just said, I'm
also not a country music person.
Mm-hmm.
But like But like if, you know,as a woman that I'm with, if
(32:16):
it's possible for them to be soelated by the some other person
who brings that out at them, whywould I not?
If I love you.
Veronica (32:26):
love you, Why would I not be happy about that?
Why would happy
Marvin (32:29):
not want you to have that experience?
Yes.
And and how cool would it be forme to actually get to see you in
that?
So that's conversion and that's,Now, I know for some people
that's like, fuck that idea.
Yeah.
Veronica (32:40):
But that's also, that's jealousy.
When people say that.
Mm-hmm.
And not to say that I don't getjealous.
I get jealous.
Yeah, sure.
I do.
I feel a certain type of waywith my married guy because I
wanna be that person who makeshim happy.
I mean, I am, I'm that, I seeit, I see it in his eyes.
I know I make him happy, but Iget jealous.
(33:02):
I get jealous.
Don't fucking look at thatbartender too long.
Don't do that.
No.
But then I, but then I turnaround and I'm like, oh, wait a
minute.
I mean, she is kind of cute.
Maybe we should look at her.
Hold on.
So my thing is, sometimes I haveto stop myself and think back
like, okay, this man loves me.
Mm-hmm.
He loves me and he will go aboveand beyond to do anything and
(33:25):
everything I need him to if Iask.
And if he finds somebody elseattractive too.
That's okay.
Yeah, because it's fuckingnatural, right?
It's natural, yeah.
So if something.
It, you know, makes him happy.
I love it.
Marvin (33:39):
Yeah.
Veronica (33:39):
I love it.
Yeah.
I want him to be happy.
Yeah.
So watching my friend and hisex-wife I love, I fucking love
it.
Marvin (33:45):
Yeah.
Veronica (33:46):
Because it is everything that he's been
talking about for five years.
Marvin (33:49):
Yeah.
Veronica (33:49):
Everything he's been dreaming about everything that
he has wanted.
He has grown.
She has grown.
And now they're in a place wherethey can grow together and
create this family that they'vehad before.
But in a Better aspect.
So I like watching that.
And it doesn't mean that heloves me any less because our
love is different than theirlove.
Right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
(34:09):
People who can't understand thatare the ones who are convinced,
just convinced that it's wrong.
The quote, quote unquote, rightor wrong.
And I, you know, it's kinda sad.
Marvin (34:21):
Yeah.
Veronica (34:21):
It's sad.
Marvin (34:22):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, for me, it's likeif they wanna have that belief
and story and that's the lifethey wanna create, then.
But I just know for me, I mean,I was raised with those beliefs
as, as long as they're
Veronica (34:33):
happy.
Yeah, exactly.
They, if they're happy,absolutely.
If they're happy in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you, if you are, if you arevisibly miserable, with the
choices that you're makingbecause you're trying to conform
to the way society wants it tobe, then no, absolutely not.
Marvin (34:50):
You not happy.
Exactly.
Veronica (34:51):
You're not fucking happy.
Marvin (34:52):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's like, I mean,that's how I ended up, you know,
in a hospital.
Veronica (34:57):
Yeah.
Was
Marvin (34:57):
trying so hard to be that person and Yeah.
For me, for sure.
That model doesn't fit at all.
You know, it for sure was not arecipe for happy.
I've learned,
Veronica (35:08):
I've learned it's not for me.
Like, of course, I, you know, I,I grew up with the whole
fairytale thing.
You know, I'm obsessed withDisney.
I love Disney.
Marvin (35:16):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (35:16):
Yeah.
And that, you know, thefairytale endings and the Prince
Charmings and the one man forevery woman, and, you know.
I don't see that anymore.
It's very different.
It's not that I don't want to bein this, in love, romantic type
of Disney situation.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
What woman wouldn't.
Yeah.
(35:36):
But I also know it's not fuckingreality.
It's not something that's gonnabe a lifetime.
it doesn't exist.
it may have existed 60, 70 yearsago.
Because again, nobody knew anybetter.
Mm-hmm.
This is what was beating theirbrains.
This is what was supposed tohappen.
Yeah.
You get married at 16, 17 yearsold and you mm-hmm.
You stay married for the rest ofyour lives.
Yeah.
Our grandparents did thingsdifferently.
(35:58):
Yeah.
Our great grandparents didthings differently.
Yeah.
Now it's, people are more open,more fluid, it's more accepted.
That, you don't have to fit in abox.
Marvin (36:07):
Right.
Yeah.
Veronica (36:08):
But yeah, I think I'm a lot more like you.
Mm-hmm.
I'm a lot more like you.
I'm very open and free aboutthings.
Mm-hmm.
And I just don't care.
Mm-hmm.
I don't care what people think.
I do not care.
I love that.
Do not care.
Marvin (36:21):
That's so powerful.
I mean, and I'm still working onthat for myself because.
There's a lot of people that Idon't care, but there's certain
people that I'm still
Veronica (36:29):
absolutely.
Marvin (36:30):
Really?
and I'm hiding, from them.
Veronica (36:34):
Yeah.
Marvin (36:34):
Really.
Because I am worried about whatthey're gonna think or say how
they're gonna feel, and I mean,at some point, if I keep up what
I'm doing, which I am
Veronica (36:42):
as you should, I'm
Marvin (36:43):
totally going to, as
Veronica (36:44):
you should,
Marvin (36:45):
then a lot of those, you know, there's gonna be a lot of
people that are gonna find out.
I really am and they're gonna bescandalized probably because,
and but
Veronica (36:55):
you know what though, it's, that's.
It's none of your business.
Yeah.
It's not your fault.
That ain't got nothing to dowith you.
Right.
How they feel and how they viewyou is their problem, not yours.
Right.
Absolutely.
Why conform?
Yeah.
To please them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do they pay your bills?
Right?
Do they wash your ass crack?
No.
Right.
Exactly.
what they think and look howthey feel and what they think.
(37:17):
Mm-hmm.
Has nothing to do with you.
It has everything to do withthem.
Yeah.
And I had to learn that as well.
And that's not to say that like.
I, I don't, I like that I don'tever not care or that I ever
care about things.
I, I do.
I just like you.
There are certain people inplaces that I care about how I
look or what they think of me orhow I act.
(37:37):
I still do,'cause again, we'rehuman.
But.
With my family.
I used to think the same thing.
I used to hide or be nervous togo to family functions.
'cause they're gonna saysomething about what I'm wearing
or where I've been or who I'vetalked to.
Honey, I wish the fuck theywould now.
I wish the fuck they would.
I show up and what I wanna wearand how I wanna wear and I post
(37:57):
whatever the fuck I wanna poston social media.
Yeah.
And when I go places and I'mhalf naked walking in a carnival
in Jamaica.
Mm-hmm.
Baby, you gonna see my asscheeks and titties hanging out.
'cause you wanna know why it's.
My life and my experiences andI'm not hurting fucking no one.
Marvin (38:12):
No.
And I'm certain that you're alsoby doing that and by living your
authentic self, you are givingpermission to other people who
needed to see that.
You know?
Yeah, absolutely.
And wanna do what you're doing,but they just need somebody to
lead in front of them and you'redoing what Yeah.
And so like I love that.
I love that you
Veronica (38:31):
do that.
I'm also, you know, I'm a singlemom of two boys.
Marvin (38:34):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (38:35):
And they're teenagers.
And guess what?
They gonna learn about life oneway or another.
And for me, I raised my boys andI raised them, quote unquote,
responsibly and properly.
I'm not gonna do drugs aroundthem.
I'm not gonna bring multiple menaround them.
My boys have never seen me witha man since my husband.
Marvin (38:55):
Yeah.
Veronica (38:55):
My boys have never seen me with another man.
Marvin (38:59):
Yeah.
Veronica (38:59):
And you wanna know why?
'cause it's another business.
Marvin (39:01):
Yeah.
Veronica (39:01):
My personal life is another business.
I stay focused on my kids andour everyday life and I keep my
private life private from thembecause that it.
You know, they don't need to seethat.
Mm-hmm.
But as far as my adventures goand my stuff online or social
media, I don't care if they seethat because I don't harm them.
Marvin (39:18):
Right.
Veronica (39:19):
I don't do drugs around them.
I don't drink around them.
I don't put them in danger, andI don't put them in a situation
where, their peers can see meand make fun of them.
But like.
And a lot of times, I see thattheir friends are watching me on
social media.
I have a public page.
I don't care.
Marvin (39:34):
Yeah.
Veronica (39:35):
And if their friends say something to them that
embarrass them, my boys, I'vealready created such a safe
space and a safe haven for themthat they will come to me and
tell me, mom, what are theytalking about?
Yeah, you did this, this, this.
I said, honey, I went to adifferent country and
participated in a culture.
Festival That they do every yearto celebrate the freedom of
(39:57):
their people.
It just so happens to be that alot of the costumes are very
risque and they are half naked.
That's just what they do.
I said it's a learningexperience.
It's in history.
Look it up.
Mm-hmm.
And they feel better about it.
Yeah, sure.
And they're like, well, I don'twanna see my mama.
You don't have to stop looking.
Yeah.
Marvin (40:13):
Yeah.
Veronica (40:14):
I'm not going to box myself in because of my kids.
Mm-hmm.
I'm going to take care of mychildren
Marvin (40:20):
Yeah.
Veronica (40:20):
take care of them the best way that I possibly can.
Yeah.
Moms out there Listening.
These listeners, you, whetheryou're a single mom or you're a
married mom or whatever the casemay be, you're a woman first.
Marvin (40:31):
Yeah.
Veronica (40:32):
Be that woman.
Yeah.
Don't lose yourself into yourtitle as a mom.
Because once that happens, yourkids do leave.
Mm-hmm.
They will leave you and what areyou left with?
A shell of a woman.
Yeah.
I'm preparing myself for whenboth of my children leave and
I'm an empty nester.
I wanna know who I am as awoman.
So I wanna experience and do allthat I can as a woman because I
(40:57):
live my life as a mom.
Yep.
Marvin (40:59):
Totally.
Veronica (40:59):
So my filthy, dirty little secrets, I have quite a
few.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that, you know, that justadds to me being a woman.
Yeah.
I do photo shoots half naked.
I do photo shoots with mychildren, in clothes that
they're comfortable in.
And, and I did a 40th birthdayphoto shoot and had a ball with
it, and I sent my kids home andput on a, almost like a skims
(41:23):
body shoot suit.
With my butt out.
To be natural.
Mm.
So everybody could see my roles,my wrinkles.
My, it was a, this is 40, butI'm a woman.
Yeah.
Still.
With no work done.
Yeah.
And this is how I feel.
And I'm sexual and I am free andI can do what I wanna do.
'cause I'm a grown woman.
So all the moms out there.
(41:44):
If you're listening Get you somedirty little secrets girl.
Mm-hmm.
Get you some dirty littlesecrets.
Mm-hmm.
And whether you wanna expressthem or tell them to anybody you
can.
Or you can keep them toyourself.
Make yourself feel good.
Marvin (41:56):
Oh my God, that was like the perfect mic drop.
This is.
So amazing.
So good.
So perfect.
You're such a magical person andI knew this inter this would be
so fantastic, but it absolutelyhas been so much, I think, so
powerful.
I came at a point in my life where I had done things the
best I could.
I had toed, the line in terms oftrying to be the marital, you
know, husband that I wassupposed to be.
Mm-hmm.
I slowly got more and moredepressed to the point that I
was suicidal.
I came out of.
The hospital.
'cause I was hospitalized in apsych hospital.
(01:15):
Suicidal.
I was on suicide watch, had aroommate who was in there
because he was in love with twowomen and he was so torn up
about it that he didn't knowwhat to do.
He was just gonna kill himself.
And I was like, God put thisperson as my roommate in this
hospital because I was like, ohwow.
I'm not the only person that hasthe capacity to.
You know, love more than oneperson.
But anyway, I came out of thatwhole experience with a decision
(01:41):
that I'm like, okay, I havespent this much time in my life
trying to be right.
Veronica (01:47):
Right.
Marvin (01:48):
And that has clearly not served me.
I've only become more and moremiserable, so I'm gonna.
Exit that strategy.
That is a failed strategy for mein my life, and I'm gonna figure
out how to be happy.
And if it's wrong, air quotes,then it's wrong.
Veronica (02:05):
Can we just point out that nobody even knows where
this right and Wrong came from?
Mm-hmm.
Oh, like who in society createdthis right way to do things and
wrong way to do things?
Yeah.
Because in my mind and what I'velearned and What I've kind of
started to feel is that, we'renot meant to be monogamous.
(02:27):
Mm-hmm.
I wholeheartedly feel like.
We're not meant to bemonogamous.
Yeah.
And I say that.
Not to say that we can't beright.
We can right.
If that's personally how we feelwith somebody.
That this person is fulfillingmy needs to the fullest.
I don't need to, Find anythingelsewhere.
But if we all just sat here anddecided, okay.
(02:49):
I like having sex with this oneperson.
It's great.
I'm gonna date them or I'm gonnamarry them, and then all of a
sudden you're still having sexwith this person.
It's still great, but otherneeds aren't being fulfilled
well then what?
Because you just committedyourself into this monogamous
situation or marriage orrelationship or whatever.
Marvin (03:11):
Yeah.
Veronica (03:11):
Now you're fucking miserable.
Marvin (03:13):
Yeah.
Veronica (03:13):
Then you start to take it out on this person, so now
you're resentful.
Right?
So now, not only did you ruinthis situation where the sex was
good.
But you've created thishostility between you and this
person.
Mm-hmm.
Which should have never evencome about.
Right?
We put so much pressure onourselves and the person that
we're with Yeah.
To fulfill everything.
(03:33):
Everything.
Marvin (03:34):
Yes.
Veronica (03:35):
It's impossible.
Yeah, it's impossible.
Yeah.
So again, I say that not to saythat you can't be monogamous
'cause there's people out therethat are monogamous, right?
Absolutely.
But do you not think that theydon't see somebody that they
find attractive and, anddaydream about or, or think of
different things about doingsomething with them,
Marvin (03:54):
right?
Veronica (03:54):
No, they do.
Marvin (03:55):
Yeah, So
Veronica (03:56):
This the spot that we're in now.
Marvin (03:58):
Mm-hmm.
I love it.
We're in a new spot, y'all.
We're in, we're in a
Veronica (04:01):
new spot.
Listeners.
We're in a new spot, I had anencounter with a man who I now
still sleep with.
It is a little over four yearsnow.
Still very much infatuated withthis man.
Our sex is still amazing.
we have nothing else.
Marvin (04:19):
Nothing.
Veronica (04:19):
It is literally just a sexual situation.
Marvin (04:22):
Yeah.
Veronica (04:22):
We do not I'll come back to recent, but from the
moment we started sleepingtogether, which we, I brought a
blanket.
It was in the middle of thenight.
3:00 AM We are in the field andlive it.
Yeah.
We had deer watching us.
It got creepy but.
we fucked really good.
It was great.
Dick huge.
The gentleman is extremelyattractive.
(04:44):
Just, ugh.
He's just gorgeous.
Yeah.
Like a fucking Greek God.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
But personality wise andcommunication wise, he's awful.
Mm.
So we don't we don't talk.
Mm-hmm.
It, it's a text.
Yo.
I'm like, what's up?
Tonight, question mark.
Okay.
Yeah.
Perfect.
Okay.
We did that and we've been doingthat for four years.
(05:07):
After the second year, thecondoms came off.
We were having sex raw, noprotection.
I have an IUD, so I can't getpregnant.
Marvin (05:14):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (05:15):
there was an assumption or there was an
understanding that, okay, we'redoing this, we're sleeping with
just each other.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
obviously.
I slept with just him, but I hadmy one or two random because I
found these random menattractive.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, let me, let metest the waters.
It was never any better thanwhat I already had.
Yeah.
It wasn't good.
(05:35):
But I tried it.
I'm like, okay, I fulfilled thatneed.
Yeah.
There was a need there.
Always used protection.
Mm-hmm.
Wanted to see what it was like.
Yeah.
Solid.
Not good.
Right.
Great.
Still have my main guy.
Yeah.
During that second year,somebody from my past who I
found extremely attractive, whoI was obsessed with at one of my
jobs, he would come in, he wasmy regular.
(05:56):
Mm-hmm.
But I was married.
I never cheated.
I never cheated.
I never went with those feelingsthat I had.
He was married as well, but.
I feel like if I had taken thesteps back then It'd be
different now.
So second year into sleepingwith the gentleman that I met
here at this wonderful spot, Isaw the guy that I'd known for
(06:17):
forever right here.
Oh wow.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Saw him, hadn't seen him inforever.
He was with his kids.
I was with mine.
I was like hi, how are you?
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Still as fine as could fuckingbe.
Yeah.
He's a little bit older than me,my guy I've been sleeping with
is younger than me.
He's about six years youngerthan me.
And he was like, man, we need tocatch up.
(06:37):
Let's, you know, let's get somedrinks or some lunch or
something.
Let's catch up.
Mm-hmm.
Great.
Perfect.
That's all.
Never thought anything of it,but that texted him a couple
times, took him a minute to textme back.
Nothing really came about that.
And then it was a long timeafter that.
It had to been like six months,seven months.
I get a friend request onSnapchat.
Oh.
And we all know,
Marvin (06:58):
oh yeah, right.
Let's
Veronica (06:59):
Snapchat is used for Okay.
Marvin (07:03):
You're like, I see you.
I
Veronica (07:04):
see you.
So that was my end.
That was my, oh hey.
Mm-hmm.
My door's open.
Come in.
Mm-hmm.
So the difference with this man,and the first one, this man is
married.
The one that I've been sleepingwith for four years is very
single.
unlike the engaged gentlemanfrom the first story I hate this
(07:25):
man's fucking wife.
I do not like her.
She is a cunt, the purestdefinition of one.
She is stuck up.
she just treats people likeshit.
She looks down on them'cause shecomes from money.
Yeah.
Get that.
Great.
Be bougie all you want to.
Right.
But she also tries to, be, Idon't know how to say it, be
down with the culture orsomething, because her husband
(07:46):
is black.
But he has created this wholedifferent persona of himself
because of who he married andthe status they have and You can
tell he's very uncomfortable incertain situations.
Marvin (07:58):
Oh, gotcha.
So he had to create somethingthat wasn't authentic for him?
Yes.
In order to fit in her world.
Fit in the world, yes.
I see.
Got it.
Veronica (08:05):
And he is the type who, they were, they dated in
college.
He got her pregnant.
He did not wanna be a statistic.
And he said, okay, let's marry,let's get married.
So they did that.
Gotcha.
Fast forward to us.
He hit me up, said the rightthings, I said things back.
He shows up to my house andwe've been in love ever since.
In love.
(08:25):
Yeah.
In love.
Yeah.
And I have loved a lotthroughout my life.
I've loved.
I've been in love.
I've just simply loved.
I have been, I have friends thatI love very much.
Mm-hmm.
So with him, it was supposed tobe what I had been doing since I
got divorced.
Savage Cutthroat.
(08:46):
We fucked during this time.
You get nothing else.
We don't need to conversate.
I don't want to go, I don't wantany more dates.
I want nothing else.
This man brought the wholepackage.
He is caring and loving andwants to take care of me and
wants to see me be successfuland Yeah.
It's crazy because in the onlything wrong is he will not leave
her.
Until his kids are out of thehouse.
(09:07):
So I said, okay.
Then I'm single.
You're married.
We're fucking, that's how it'sgonna be.
Yeah.
So I kept, my guy who I've beensleeping with for four years
mm-hmm.
Because I knew he had his wifeonly fair.
Mm-hmm.
Only fair.
Mm-hmm.
So, Yeah.
So I'm still talking to both ofthem.
And we're four and three yearsinto it.
And my four year guy.
I just found out he's had agirlfriend.
(09:29):
For half the time.
Mm-hmm.
That we've been sleepingtogether.
And I was like, that's fuckedup.
Because not only did we assume,or we stated that we were just
gonna sleep with each other.
Mm-hmm.
You have not only had agirlfriend over the past,
however many.
Months or whatever, significantamount of time.
But you've been taking women ondates, you've been sleeping
around, but yet you've beensleeping with me two to three
(09:50):
times a week.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
Consistently.
For four years.
I was like, bro, that's reallyfucked up.
But cool.
'cause if I told you what I wasdoing you would get mad too.
Marvin (10:01):
Yeah.
Veronica (10:02):
But I don't, because again, it's not my business to
tell him.
Yeah.
So.
The married man.
What's crazy about that is wehave multiple spots.
Oh, throughout our little, okay
Marvin (10:13):
there.
I love it.
Yeah.
So you drive around and you'relike right there.
So we're,
Veronica (10:17):
yeah, we're like, okay.
Behind the Wendy's.
Marvin (10:20):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (10:21):
At that office building.
Marvin (10:22):
Oh yes.
Mm-hmm.
That is a parking lot.
A good spot.
Veronica (10:25):
Great spot.
Marvin (10:26):
I've not yet myself, but you.
But I have many times been backthere and thought this is a good
spot.
Great
Veronica (10:32):
spot.
It is Great spot.
We do that one.
There's one over by the soccerfields down that road.
Oh, okay.
And there's a small the startthe car.
Let's go.
Okay.
Marvin (10:42):
I think I actually, I'm wondering
Veronica (10:44):
if it's the same spot.
Well,
Marvin (10:46):
I don't, so I'm not even sure if there's a spot like what
I'm thinking.
But I'll tell you the spot thatI'm thinking and I've wondered
about that area.
So, I mean, one of the thingsthat's intriguing to me about,
because you're talking about,about the soccer fields
Veronica (10:59):
Yeah.
Marvin (10:59):
So, I mean, bucket listing for me for sure is, you
know, roads that are right bythe interstate.
Veronica (11:06):
Yeah.
Marvin (11:06):
Cars driving by, you know?
Yes.
And of course driving way toofast to actually see you, but
man, you see them, right?
Veronica (11:13):
Yes.
Marvin (11:13):
So, I mean, that road is right by an interstate.
And I've thought, man, there'sgotta be like a really good spot
to just be like right there andboom, you know?
Yeah.
And they just drive by andyou're like,
Veronica (11:27):
Uhhuh.
Marvin (11:28):
Yeah.
Veronica (11:29):
I've done it in the bathroom of the airport parking
garage.
Marvin (11:33):
Oh, amazing.
Veronica (11:34):
Yeah.
That was fun.
But this spot, yeah, this is sorandom and honestly, it just,
you know, he's married, so he'sgot.
Sneak outta the house, pretendhe is going to the gym.
Right.
And meet me at whatever spot wecan come up with.
Or he'll sneak into my houselike you did yesterday, yeah,
right.
Knock it out and leave.
(11:55):
Gotcha.
But you know, all of this, Ihave great stories.
I've messed with many men.
over the past five years.
And I, you know, I'm not ashamedof it.
I love that.
I'll tell my truth to whoever'swilling to listen or mm-hmm.
Who needs to hear some thingslike that, women wise.
Because if a man asks me for abody count, I hate that
(12:18):
question.
don't ask me that.
Because when I tell you, andwhen I speak my truth about my
story, you are going to have a.
preconceived notion.
Because I'm gonna give you anumber that you think isn't
proper.
Or you think is unacceptable.
But again, that's
Marvin (12:37):
our society.
Thank you for breaking that quefor that particular point down
because I've had, I've had otherwomen say that they hate that
question.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, for me, the thingabout that question is, I come
from obviously a different placethan what they've experienced
around that number.
Because I get excited about thenumber.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, I wannacelebrate whatever the number
(12:58):
is, because to whatever degreethat it defies and breaks the
rules about what it should be.
Mm-hmm.
When it's just not Yeah.
The numbers are way off in termsof what the expectations are.
The rules are, right.
Veronica (13:13):
What's acceptable
Marvin (13:14):
for men
Veronica (13:14):
what's acceptable for women.
Marvin (13:16):
like if a woman is like, this is my number I just.
Fantasize and dream about a daywhen women could be on an
interview, on a major talk show.
And say their number
Veronica (13:30):
right.
Marvin (13:30):
Instead of it being like what you said of Yeah.
People automatically are gonnago, oh, that number's too high.
Veronica (13:37):
You're a slut.
Marvin (13:38):
Yeah.
Veronica (13:39):
You're ran through.
Marvin (13:40):
Or that your worth is somehow less.
Yes,
Veronica (13:42):
yes.
Marvin (13:43):
Because there's this idea that, oh, well, yeah, so
Veronica (13:45):
You can't be a wife to this one.
Right.
No one
Marvin (13:48):
No one could ever want you.
And I just believe that there isa future time when that
materializes is just not true.
Veronica (13:57):
Right.
Why am I looked at as somethingdifferent?
Yeah.
I love my sexuality.
Yeah.
I enjoy my experiences.
Yeah.
There have been some that I wishI didn't have.
'cause they were not fuckinggood.
It wasn't worth it.
It wasn't worth it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But at the same time, again,it's an experience.
It's an adventure.
It's something you'refulfilling, something that you
(14:17):
had a need to fulfill.
Like why are we denying ourneeds?
If you see, if you see a man ora woman that you find attractive
and they find you attractive andy'all are interested in each
other, why not bang it out?
Absolutely, because we don't seea future with them.
That's the issue.
Or because they've been withhowever many people, that's a
(14:37):
problem.
That's crazy to me.
Marvin (14:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
I 100% agree with you.
I think the permission that youjust spoke, if that were to
somehow be embodied across theplanet.
and I mean, and some people aregonna be like, that's not for
me.
Great, great.
Veronica (14:51):
Absolutely.
But that's perfectly fine.
Marvin (14:53):
Yeah.
But like, but there's peoplethat it is absolutely for
mm-hmm.
And if they had that permission,you know, without shame.
Veronica (15:00):
Yes.
Marvin (15:01):
what would the world look like?
Happy, happy.
Veronica (15:03):
How
Marvin (15:03):
much, like happy less people like raging in traffic
would there be, you know?
Yeah.
They'd be happy.
Veronica (15:09):
cause they'd be like, you know what, you're cute.
Here's my number.
Well, let's fuck later.
Yeah.
And not be ashamed about it.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I have another story.
I have a guy who, I just love, Ilove him.
Mm-hmm.
I love him.
Mm-hmm.
This is, this is somebody who Iwill be friends with probably.
Until the day I die.
Mm-hmm.
he was literally one of in myprime.
2019, the end of 2019, I wascoming home from Paris.
(15:33):
I keep in mind I got divorcedthe beginning of 2019.
Yeah.
And I was trapped during mywhole marriage.
I loved to travel.
I love to go to differentplaces.
So I was coming home from Paris.
I had seen a guy on Facebookeight months prior to that.
Fine.
Just, ugh.
Beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
Just good looking dude.
Hit him up.
He wasn't interested.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, he was, he was in themiddle of a separation.
(15:53):
He had been separated from hisex-wife or his wife for three
years.
He wasn't into dating whateverelse.
I'm like, okay, great.
Let's just be friends.
We chatted up a couple times onFacebook.
Then he saw me, he actuallyreally saw me in my posts from
Paris.
And started paying attention tothings I was saying and
Marvin (16:10):
mm-hmm.
Veronica (16:11):
You know, he said, you know, when you come back.
Told him when I came back, hesaid, okay, let's link up.
I said, perfect.
'cause this is all I want.
He was like, great.
Didn't realize that.
I said, yeah, I didn't wannadate you.
I don't know.
You like that?
Yeah, I don't date.
Yeah.
After the first two times, meand him hooked up, it turned
into gab sessions to where wewere having sex and sitting down
and having conversations forhours because he felt seen.
(16:34):
Yeah.
But not only did he feel seen.
I felt seen and he did not judgeme for what I had going on.
My roster, my mindset, thesavagery of me cutting men off
when I was done with him.
Yeah, he applauded me.
And loved that.
He was like, you're not crazy,are you?
I'm like, absolutely not.
(16:55):
He was like, you're not gonnafall in love with me.
And then like.
Come back around and go nuts onme.
I was like, no.
Sorry.
If that's happened to youbefore, I am completely
different.
Marvin (17:03):
Right.
Veronica (17:03):
I've heard a lot of times I'm the exception to the
rule.
Oh.
But I don't wanna be, I wantwomen to feel comfortable in
doing what I do or doing whatthey feel like they wanna do.
Yeah.
So with this gentleman, oh, itjust worked out beautifully.
Four months into it, he gets aphone call from his ex and she
wants to work things out withhim.
Mm-hmm.
Within the four months.
And me and him were.
Doing what we were doing.
(17:23):
I learned of his love for hiswife and the things that he had
gone through with her and hisinfidelities in earlier years of
their marriage.
And they had two beautiful younggirls together and he was outta
the military and there was a lotof things that he shared with
me.
We shared a lot of stuff witheach other.
So for me, I was actually thefirst person he called to say,
(17:46):
Hey, so and so called me.
My ex-wife called me and wantsto work things out.
I'm like, fucking amazing.
Great.
This is what you've beenwanting, right?
He was like, yes, but, and wordfor word I can't let you go.
And I said, you know, Iunderstand you don't wanna let
me go, as in I'm easy.
listen, we have great sex.
(18:07):
There's no drama.
I understand that's somethingthat people strive to have the
people in relationships striveto have, and we're not even in
relationship.
And this is something that is,it's hard to find.
I said, but I know how much youlove your wife.
I know this is what you want.
So you have to let me go in asense of we cannot sleep
(18:28):
together until you have figuredout what you wanna do with your
wife.
He was understanding, I wasunderstanding.
We talked, it was COVID again,beginning of COVID.
they jumped back into somethingthey probably shouldn't have.
They got stuck in an apartmenttogether with their girls and it
imploded because they didn't dothe work that needed to be done
to save their marriage.
all the whole time I'm stillthere.
(18:48):
He's still wanting to get headand fuck when he needed to
release and that wasunderstandable.
So I did what I needed to do andwhat he needed from me.
we gave to each other what weneeded.
we're on what, five years intoit.
we haven't slept together forover a year, two years.
Two years I think.
and that was just one occasionthat we slept together and we
(19:11):
hadn't slept together a yearbefore that.
So we grew this bond, and I'llnever forget.
When he messaged me and he said,I love you and I was like, wait,
what?
And I called him and he waslike, I knew that was gonna
freak you out.
I'm like, no, I just wanna makesure we're on the same page
here.
So it wasn't an I love you thatI wanna be with you.
(19:32):
It wasn't I love you because youare there for me when I need to
be.
So, I loved him too.
I love him still.
And I am getting to the goodpart, I promise.
Marvin (19:42):
Oh no, this is all fantastic.
Right.
I'll love every bit of this.
Veronica (19:45):
He ended up, him and his wife ended up splitting
again because they just, youknow, they just didn't do the
work that they needed to do.
Yeah.
they jumped back into it.
I knew it was gonna happen, butthey just needed to figure it
out.
They end up getting divorced.
They finally got divorced.
we took a trip to Vegastogether.
Okay.
and the trip to Vegas was almostlike a farewell trip for him
(20:07):
because he had taken a joboverseas.
Oh, wow.
And I wasn't gonna see him forquite some time.
So we were really sad aboutthat.
So we took this trip to Vegas.
In our minds and what we kepttalking about, we were like,
yeah, we need to have athreesome because I'd never had
a threesome before.
Oh, okay.
And cool.
So we were just talking about itand looking and we had a great
(20:28):
time, don't get me wrong.
I met a pimp, did not know itwas a pimp at the time.
Glad that I didn't do anythingwith him.
'cause who would've known whatthe fuck would've happened,
right.
That shit was wild, figured out.
It was a pimp.
Later on once we got home and Icalled my buddy that I went with
and I was like.
Bro.
The guy that you pulled me awayfrom was a whole ass pimp.
Can't believe it.
(20:48):
So crazy.
So we laughed about that, butthat trip in Vegas, we had such
a fucking blast.
We had such a good time.
We had great sex.
We like, we dove into each otherlike we had never done before,
right?
He had told me about this girlthat he was sleeping with.
That, had fallen for him.
And I said, you know, hey, youcan't do what you do with me
(21:11):
with other women because theywill not understand, oh, you'll
turn it here.
They will not understand, norwill it be the same, because
what we have is different.
Again, exception to the rule.
I do things differently becauseI have found myself, I have, I
have learned that what I wantand what I wanna do.
So just literally right there.
Marvin (21:32):
listeners.
Hey, listeners, we are coming toanother spot.
What condominiums are just rightthere.
We're in a little parking lotnext to a condominium.
Veronica (21:42):
it's a little office space
Marvin (21:43):
But there's like residences around.
Mm-hmm.
And all these families doingtheir thing, having no idea.
The Veronica is being a naughty,naughty.
Nearby.
Veronica (21:53):
Nearby.
And you know what's crazy isthat we would literally just
open the car door and standright there.
Marvin (22:00):
Oh, nice.
Yes.
Out and let the air, let the air
Veronica (22:02):
flow and just be, it'd be dark, but we didn't care.
Yeah.
It was where we needed to bebecause he was married and
Gotcha.
We had to get it in Uhhuh, butback to my guy in Vegas.
So what's crazy is we, we setthis expectation for ourselves,
to have a threesome.
Okay.
It was very much talked about,right?
Yeah.
Talked about it.
We looked for'em, looked forgirls.
(22:24):
It didn't work.
Didn't work.
We definitely enjoyed ourselves.
We enjoyed being with eachother.
We had a great hotel room.
We fucked in front of thewindow.
Just so people could see if theycould, that was enjoyable for
us.
Marvin (22:35):
Yeah.
Exciting,
Veronica (22:36):
lingerie, whatever else.
Marvin (22:37):
because it's like, you know that they see you, but they
don't know who you are, butyou're Yeah.
They're like, who are thosepeople?
They're binocular.
Yeah.
This is great.
Veronica (22:44):
Yeah.
Let's, let's watch the show.
You know, putting on a show,it's an excitement.
It's exciting.
So that I absolutely, I feltcomfortable doing that with him.
I loved doing that with him.
We filmed it.
We have video of it.
We keep it, both of us.
what's crazy is that.
Three weeks later he left.
He was gone, for about six orseven months.
he came back.
Things were different As theyare when there's time in
(23:05):
between.
And you don't get to be physicalwith somebody.
Still very much loved him.
He very much loved me.
We talked, we very good friends.
And I think, you know, hisfriendship with his ex-wife, he
was trying to build on thefriendship'cause that was his
best friend.
And even though they weredivorced, he still wanted to
keep a good co-parentingrelationship.
But the crazy thing was.
(23:26):
we didn't sleep with each otheranymore after that.
We saw each other.
When he came home.
We decided not to, it justwasn't for us anymore.
We still very much talked allthe time.
Right.
And then I decided, I love ChrisBrown, one of my favorite
artists.
Yeah.
Okay.
This is a little random.
No.
I decided when his tour droppeduk.
(23:46):
I'm like, I'm going.
I wanna go.
Yeah.
Are you kidding me?
Right.
Different country.
Love it.
Yeah.
YOLO show shows here in theStates.
No, thank you.
Yeah.
Shows in different countries,Absolutly, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I bought tickets.
To Ireland.
Wow.
To see Chris Brown.
Yeah.
Three tickets, because I'm like,okay, I'm taking two friends.
I know people are gonna wannago.
The tickets were fucking cheap.
(24:06):
I'm like in, in the standingarea by the fucking stage.
Wow.
Amazing.
The whole trip itself costs lessthan two tickets to a show here
in New York.
Wow.
For Chris Brown.
Whole trip.
Wow, that's amazing.
So the people that were supposedto originally go with me
canceled and I offered it to, tomy buddy.
Marvin (24:25):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (24:26):
'cause he's a big fan as well.
I said, Hey look.
I know how to keep my mouthshut.
If you do, if you wanna inviteyour ex-wife,'cause she loved
him, Chris Brown as well.
No, I don't think she'll go forit.
I was like, it's fine.
You invite who you wanna invite,but you're gonna come with me.
We're going, we travel welltogether, let's just fucking go.
Mm-hmm.
So it was supposed to be me, himand a friend of mine.
(24:46):
She canceled last minute.
So I said, it's me and you,babe.
Yeah.
It's me and you.
He was like, I don't care.
That's fine.
Let's go.
It's all we're, you know what?
Let's gift the ticket tosomebody random that we see
there.
Alright, cool.
I said, perfect.
I'm down for that.
Marvin (24:59):
Yeah.
Veronica (24:59):
Our first night there, we wear our comfortable clothes.
We go out, we're fucking barhopping.
Marvin (25:05):
Yeah.
Veronica (25:05):
We run into a bar crawl, which I don't know if you
know what a bar crawl is.
Apparently you just.
Pay mm-hmm.
Marvin (25:11):
To be with a group of people.
I mean, just, and
Veronica (25:14):
then you just go to different bars.
Yeah.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Wasn't this what we were doing?
Yeah.
He was like, no, well, you'rewith a group of people, so it's
cool.
I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
But it was super cheap.
So we're like, all right.
And we get free shots at thedoor of every bar that we go to.
Okay.
And we get drink deals.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm like, okay, cool.
Great.
Both of us.
What, what I think is greatabout both of us is we're, we
(25:35):
are two very friendly people.
We can make friends anywhere.
We can talk to anybody.
Yeah.
So we're talking to these peoplein this huge, just a group of
like 60.
Okay.
And we're just talking to randompeople.
Where are you from?
Where are you from?
we met a gentleman who was fromLondon.
He was hilarious.
So he's hanging with us, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
we get into this bar and mybuddy is talking to this girl
(25:57):
who was from Amsterdam.
Big old, leather jacket on.
She was cool.
She looked Like a break dancer.
Oh, okay.
Cool.
Just the vibe was there.
We're like, oh, that's cool asshit.
Love your outfit.
Marvin (26:09):
Yeah.
Veronica (26:10):
We're just talking it up.
Having a great time.
It's the four of us.
We met these new people.
We're hanging out.
It's all great.
We party until like threeo'clock in the morning.
Only place Open to eat isfucking Burger King in Ireland.
Isn.
That crazy.
Yeah.
we grab an Uber.
'cause we're like, we're gonna,we're gonna head back to our
Airbnb.
we lost our guy.
He left.
(26:30):
We had all talked about meetingup the next day, for brunch.
We wanted to do brunch.
our guy was going to the ChrisBrown concert.
We're like, dude let's meet up.
Let's go there.
And our girl, she wasn't going,we're like.
Marvin (26:41):
Yeah.
Ticket.
Ticket.
How about it?
We have
Veronica (26:43):
an extra ticket.
Do you wanna go?
free ticket?
Mm-hmm.
Meet us, Sarah.
Let's go have brunch.
Let's have lunch.
You know, in the morning.
Then we'll all get dressed andwe'll meet each other there.
Yeah.
She was like, oh my.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Right.
So we go eat, we're eatingdinner at 3, 3 30 in the
morning.
We're like, Hey, where do youstand?
I'm staying at the hostel.
I said that's like five blocksand you're not walking down
(27:03):
there like you wanna share anUber, you wanna come back with
us?
No, it's great when you all comeback with y'all and we can all
go to brunch in the morning.
Cool.
Perfect.
Let's go.
We get back to our Airbnb.
I think I rinsed off.
We all rinsed off because wewere nasty and we get in the
bed, all three of us together inthe bed.
Yeah.
And then she just starts feelingme up.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like.
(27:23):
Perfect.
Yeah, let's go.
Right, because the girl was fineas hell.
Yeah, she was fine as hell.
And we went for at least twohours.
And it was probably the best sexI've ever had.
And it was with a woman.
Oh, I love that.
Right?
Yeah.
That's amazing.
And the best sex I've ever hadwas with a woman.
Yeah.
And she was the second womanthat I had ever been with, the
first woman that I had ever beenwith was a friend of mine who
(27:44):
I'd who, just a random personthat became my friend.
Mm-hmm.
And.
She gave me my first experiencebecause she was like, you've
never been with a woman.
I'm like, yeah, I haven't.
She was like, that'sdisgraceful.
I'm like, I know.
So she fulfilled that dream ofmine and it was fantastic, and I
will love her forever for that.
But this experience with myfriend and this woman was so.
(28:07):
Unprovoked and talked aboutthat, like it was so perfect.
It was not weird.
Everything went smooth,everything was great.
The next morning, none of usacted weird.
We went and had brunch with ourbuddy that we met the night
before.
Mm-hmm.
And then we go to this concertand we are all so loving with
each other.
And what's crazy is at thisconcert, you know, we're, we're
all standing.
(28:27):
So there's people standingaround us and they're watching
my buddy.
Love on me.
They, there were these women andgirls, or people around us that
were like, y'all together.
I'm like, no.
Oh, and y'all.
Well, we're all here.
Because he would love on me andthen he would love on her.
Mm-hmm.
And she would hug on me and wewould just, it was nothing
inappropriate.
(28:47):
Yeah.
It was just very loving.
Yeah.
And caring.
Marvin (28:50):
Yeah.
Veronica (28:50):
And it was such a great experience, Marvin.
Marvin (28:53):
That
Veronica (28:53):
I still talk to her to this day.
She's in Amsterdam.
Wow.
And this is three years later.
Marvin (28:58):
We
Veronica (28:58):
Yeah.
We still message.
she's got a boyfriend now.
Mm-hmm.
she still wants me to come andvisit and nothing on like a
sexual level.
It's literally a friendshiplevel.
Marvin (29:06):
Yeah.
Veronica (29:07):
But to have that experience, to feel open enough
to do it.
Yeah.
To not be nervous or scaredafter the fact.
To not feel ashamed to be ableto tell my story.
'cause that's fucking awesome.
Yes.
Went to Ireland for Chris Brownand had a threesome.
Yes.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's a great story to tell.
Yes.
Why would I wanna keep that tomyself?
Absolutely.
I should not feel ashamed aboutthat.
Yeah.
I had some of the best sex of mylife.
(29:29):
Yeah.
Her breasts were amazing.
Like I wanna talk about itbecause it was exhilarating, it
was fun, and she's such a greathuman being.
Mm-hmm.
Why can't I talk about it?
Yeah, absolutely.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Absolutely.
So, yeah, that, that was thelast time I had slept with my
buddy.
Mm-hmm.
And he is now back with hiswife.
(29:51):
They're not married, but they'reback together.
And I just think it's beautiful.
Marvin (29:54):
Yeah.
Veronica (29:55):
I try not to interrupt what he's got going on in life.
Marvin (29:58):
Yeah.
Veronica (29:58):
Because I feel like, like you said, there are women
out there who don't condonecertain activities.
Right.
Sure.
Or wouldn't condone mine and hisfriendship mm-hmm.
Because we were sexual.
Mm-hmm.
That's a whole other topic.
Mm-hmm.
That I think is.
Stupid.
Yeah.
I just don't like that.
Because we have a connectionthat, not many people get.
(30:18):
Mm-hmm.
And keep.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we did have a sexualrelationship.
We have such a strong friendshipthough, too.
Mm-hmm.
So that was, that's one of myhighlights of my quote unquote
ho stage uhhuh or whatever.
I love it.
My single life.
Marvin (30:33):
I mean, these are all such good stories.
have you ever heard the wordcompersion before?
No.
I feel like you're gonna lovethis word.
Veronica (30:39):
let me hear it.
Marvin (30:40):
Compersion is my absolute favorite word,
compersion is this word in thepolyamorous community, It's when
you feel genuine joy, happiness,because your partner is having
some kind of experience withsomeone else.
Yeah.
That's com conversion.
Veronica (30:58):
Love it.
Marvin (30:59):
I love it.
Veronica (31:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marvin (31:01):
I mean one of the first times that I felt.
I connected with it in myselfand I was like, I love this
about me I was actually in bedwith someone and she was singing
in her sleep.
Veronica (31:14):
I love it.
Marvin (31:15):
And the reason that she was singing in her sleep is
because somebody else thatbrought that out of her, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
I would not have been able towitness this moment and see this
had I been someone who wasn'tCom conversive and wasn't
encouraging mm-hmm.
For those experiences to happen.
But because I was open to that,I got the opportunity to see.
(31:41):
Her in this state of bliss andjoy and how cool is that?
Yeah.
You know, opened the door for me
Veronica (31:48):
yeah.
Marvin (31:49):
Because, uh, she was singing country music.
Now I am.
Not a country music person.
Veronica (31:54):
Me neither.
Marvin (31:55):
And I'm not gonna be the person that brings that out of
another woman.
Right.
Their excitement and joy atcountry music songs.
I'm never gonna be that guy.
Right.
Okay.
So, but if it's possible for youto.
I'm not saying you,'causeobviously you just said, I'm
also not a country music person.
Mm-hmm.
But like But like if, you know,as a woman that I'm with, if
(32:16):
it's possible for them to be soelated by the some other person
who brings that out at them, whywould I not?
If I love you.
Veronica (32:26):
love you, Why would I not be happy about that?
Why would happy
Marvin (32:29):
not want you to have that experience?
Yes.
And and how cool would it be forme to actually get to see you in
that?
So that's conversion and that's,Now, I know for some people
that's like, fuck that idea.
Yeah.
Veronica (32:40):
But that's also, that's jealousy.
When people say that.
Mm-hmm.
And not to say that I don't getjealous.
I get jealous.
Yeah, sure.
I do.
I feel a certain type of waywith my married guy because I
wanna be that person who makeshim happy.
I mean, I am, I'm that, I seeit, I see it in his eyes.
I know I make him happy, but Iget jealous.
(33:02):
I get jealous.
Don't fucking look at thatbartender too long.
Don't do that.
No.
But then I, but then I turnaround and I'm like, oh, wait a
minute.
I mean, she is kind of cute.
Maybe we should look at her.
Hold on.
So my thing is, sometimes I haveto stop myself and think back
like, okay, this man loves me.
Mm-hmm.
He loves me and he will go aboveand beyond to do anything and
(33:25):
everything I need him to if Iask.
And if he finds somebody elseattractive too.
That's okay.
Yeah, because it's fuckingnatural, right?
It's natural, yeah.
So if something.
It, you know, makes him happy.
I love it.
Marvin (33:39):
Yeah.
Veronica (33:39):
I love it.
Yeah.
I want him to be happy.
Yeah.
So watching my friend and hisex-wife I love, I fucking love
it.
Marvin (33:45):
Yeah.
Veronica (33:46):
Because it is everything that he's been
talking about for five years.
Marvin (33:49):
Yeah.
Veronica (33:49):
Everything he's been dreaming about everything that
he has wanted.
He has grown.
She has grown.
And now they're in a place wherethey can grow together and
create this family that they'vehad before.
But in a Better aspect.
So I like watching that.
And it doesn't mean that heloves me any less because our
love is different than theirlove.
Right?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
(34:09):
People who can't understand thatare the ones who are convinced,
just convinced that it's wrong.
The quote, quote unquote, rightor wrong.
And I, you know, it's kinda sad.
Marvin (34:21):
Yeah.
Veronica (34:21):
It's sad.
Marvin (34:22):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, for me, it's likeif they wanna have that belief
and story and that's the lifethey wanna create, then.
But I just know for me, I mean,I was raised with those beliefs
as, as long as they're
Veronica (34:33):
happy.
Yeah, exactly.
They, if they're happy,absolutely.
If they're happy in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you, if you are, if you arevisibly miserable, with the
choices that you're makingbecause you're trying to conform
to the way society wants it tobe, then no, absolutely not.
Marvin (34:50):
You not happy.
Exactly.
Veronica (34:51):
You're not fucking happy.
Marvin (34:52):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's like, I mean,that's how I ended up, you know,
in a hospital.
Veronica (34:57):
Yeah.
Was
Marvin (34:57):
trying so hard to be that person and Yeah.
For me, for sure.
That model doesn't fit at all.
You know, it for sure was not arecipe for happy.
I've learned,
Veronica (35:08):
I've learned it's not for me.
Like, of course, I, you know, I,I grew up with the whole
fairytale thing.
You know, I'm obsessed withDisney.
I love Disney.
Marvin (35:16):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (35:16):
Yeah.
And that, you know, thefairytale endings and the Prince
Charmings and the one man forevery woman, and, you know.
I don't see that anymore.
It's very different.
It's not that I don't want to bein this, in love, romantic type
of Disney situation.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
What woman wouldn't.
Yeah.
(35:36):
But I also know it's not fuckingreality.
It's not something that's gonnabe a lifetime.
it doesn't exist.
it may have existed 60, 70 yearsago.
Because again, nobody knew anybetter.
Mm-hmm.
This is what was beating theirbrains.
This is what was supposed tohappen.
Yeah.
You get married at 16, 17 yearsold and you mm-hmm.
You stay married for the rest ofyour lives.
Yeah.
Our grandparents did thingsdifferently.
(35:58):
Yeah.
Our great grandparents didthings differently.
Yeah.
Now it's, people are more open,more fluid, it's more accepted.
That, you don't have to fit in abox.
Marvin (36:07):
Right.
Yeah.
Veronica (36:08):
But yeah, I think I'm a lot more like you.
Mm-hmm.
I'm a lot more like you.
I'm very open and free aboutthings.
Mm-hmm.
And I just don't care.
Mm-hmm.
I don't care what people think.
I do not care.
I love that.
Do not care.
Marvin (36:21):
That's so powerful.
I mean, and I'm still working onthat for myself because.
There's a lot of people that Idon't care, but there's certain
people that I'm still
Veronica (36:29):
absolutely.
Marvin (36:30):
Really?
and I'm hiding, from them.
Veronica (36:34):
Yeah.
Marvin (36:34):
Really.
Because I am worried about whatthey're gonna think or say how
they're gonna feel, and I mean,at some point, if I keep up what
I'm doing, which I am
Veronica (36:42):
as you should, I'm
Marvin (36:43):
totally going to, as
Veronica (36:44):
you should,
Marvin (36:45):
then a lot of those, you know, there's gonna be a lot of
people that are gonna find out.
I really am and they're gonna bescandalized probably because,
and but
Veronica (36:55):
you know what though, it's, that's.
It's none of your business.
Yeah.
It's not your fault.
That ain't got nothing to dowith you.
Right.
How they feel and how they viewyou is their problem, not yours.
Right.
Absolutely.
Why conform?
Yeah.
To please them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do they pay your bills?
Right?
Do they wash your ass crack?
No.
Right.
Exactly.
what they think and look howthey feel and what they think.
(37:17):
Mm-hmm.
Has nothing to do with you.
It has everything to do withthem.
Yeah.
And I had to learn that as well.
And that's not to say that like.
I, I don't, I like that I don'tever not care or that I ever
care about things.
I, I do.
I just like you.
There are certain people inplaces that I care about how I
look or what they think of me orhow I act.
(37:37):
I still do,'cause again, we'rehuman.
But.
With my family.
I used to think the same thing.
I used to hide or be nervous togo to family functions.
'cause they're gonna saysomething about what I'm wearing
or where I've been or who I'vetalked to.
Honey, I wish the fuck theywould now.
I wish the fuck they would.
I show up and what I wanna wearand how I wanna wear and I post
(37:57):
whatever the fuck I wanna poston social media.
Yeah.
And when I go places and I'mhalf naked walking in a carnival
in Jamaica.
Mm-hmm.
Baby, you gonna see my asscheeks and titties hanging out.
'cause you wanna know why it's.
My life and my experiences andI'm not hurting fucking no one.
Marvin (38:12):
No.
And I'm certain that you're alsoby doing that and by living your
authentic self, you are givingpermission to other people who
needed to see that.
You know?
Yeah, absolutely.
And wanna do what you're doing,but they just need somebody to
lead in front of them and you'redoing what Yeah.
And so like I love that.
I love that you
Veronica (38:31):
do that.
I'm also, you know, I'm a singlemom of two boys.
Marvin (38:34):
Mm-hmm.
Veronica (38:35):
And they're teenagers.
And guess what?
They gonna learn about life oneway or another.
And for me, I raised my boys andI raised them, quote unquote,
responsibly and properly.
I'm not gonna do drugs aroundthem.
I'm not gonna bring multiple menaround them.
My boys have never seen me witha man since my husband.
Marvin (38:55):
Yeah.
Veronica (38:55):
My boys have never seen me with another man.
Marvin (38:59):
Yeah.
Veronica (38:59):
And you wanna know why?
'cause it's another business.
Marvin (39:01):
Yeah.
Veronica (39:01):
My personal life is another business.
I stay focused on my kids andour everyday life and I keep my
private life private from thembecause that it.
You know, they don't need to seethat.
Mm-hmm.
But as far as my adventures goand my stuff online or social
media, I don't care if they seethat because I don't harm them.
Marvin (39:18):
Right.
Veronica (39:19):
I don't do drugs around them.
I don't drink around them.
I don't put them in danger, andI don't put them in a situation
where, their peers can see meand make fun of them.
But like.
And a lot of times, I see thattheir friends are watching me on
social media.
I have a public page.
I don't care.
Marvin (39:34):
Yeah.
Veronica (39:35):
And if their friends say something to them that
embarrass them, my boys, I'vealready created such a safe
space and a safe haven for themthat they will come to me and
tell me, mom, what are theytalking about?
Yeah, you did this, this, this.
I said, honey, I went to adifferent country and
participated in a culture.
Festival That they do every yearto celebrate the freedom of
(39:57):
their people.
It just so happens to be that alot of the costumes are very
risque and they are half naked.
That's just what they do.
I said it's a learningexperience.
It's in history.
Look it up.
Mm-hmm.
And they feel better about it.
Yeah, sure.
And they're like, well, I don'twanna see my mama.
You don't have to stop looking.
Yeah.
Marvin (40:13):
Yeah.
Veronica (40:14):
I'm not going to box myself in because of my kids.
Mm-hmm.
I'm going to take care of mychildren
Marvin (40:20):
Yeah.
Veronica (40:20):
take care of them the best way that I possibly can.
Yeah.
Moms out there Listening.
These listeners, you, whetheryou're a single mom or you're a
married mom or whatever the casemay be, you're a woman first.
Marvin (40:31):
Yeah.
Veronica (40:32):
Be that woman.
Yeah.
Don't lose yourself into yourtitle as a mom.
Because once that happens, yourkids do leave.
Mm-hmm.
They will leave you and what areyou left with?
A shell of a woman.
Yeah.
I'm preparing myself for whenboth of my children leave and
I'm an empty nester.
I wanna know who I am as awoman.
So I wanna experience and do allthat I can as a woman because I
(40:57):
live my life as a mom.
Yep.
Marvin (40:59):
Totally.
Veronica (40:59):
So my filthy, dirty little secrets, I have quite a
few.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that, you know, that justadds to me being a woman.
Yeah.
I do photo shoots half naked.
I do photo shoots with mychildren, in clothes that
they're comfortable in.
And, and I did a 40th birthdayphoto shoot and had a ball with
it, and I sent my kids home andput on a, almost like a skims
(41:23):
body shoot suit.
With my butt out.
To be natural.
Mm.
So everybody could see my roles,my wrinkles.
My, it was a, this is 40, butI'm a woman.
Yeah.
Still.
With no work done.
Yeah.
And this is how I feel.
And I'm sexual and I am free andI can do what I wanna do.
'cause I'm a grown woman.
So all the moms out there.
(41:44):
If you're listening Get you somedirty little secrets girl.
Mm-hmm.
Get you some dirty littlesecrets.
Mm-hmm.
And whether you wanna expressthem or tell them to anybody you
can.
Or you can keep them toyourself.
Make yourself feel good.
Marvin (41:56):
Oh my God, that was like the perfect mic drop.
This is.
So amazing.
So good.
So perfect.
You're such a magical person andI knew this inter this would be
so fantastic, but it absolutelyhas been so much, I think, so
powerful.
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Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.